textfiles/messages/BACKWATER/bw861206.txt

1 If you are in need of help, you need but ask...
2 ************************* INSTALLED: 6 DEC 86 ************************
3 Welcome to BWMS (BackWater Message System)  Mike Day System operator
4 ************************************************************
5 GENERAL DISCLAIMER: BWMS IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY INFORMATION
6                     PLACED ON THIS SYSTEM.
7 BWMS was created as an electronic bill board. BWMS is a privately owned
8 and operated system which is currently open for use by the general public.
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18 ************************************************************
19 
20 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
21 Ah, but Russia doesn't care about the oil itself, what they care about
22 is gaining control over the gulf, and thus control over a major portion 
23 of the worlds oil supply. The midEast countries on the other hand are
24 interested in the oil as a way to support their economies, as well as
25 a means to support their bickering amongst themselves, and if the US
26 doesn't provide them the means to support the bickering, then they will
27 turn elsewhere. Russia would be more than happy to help out, and they
28 have different strings attached then the US does. One of those is greater
29 and greater control over the way they run their countries. Then comes a 
30 point when they dump the old leaders, and install their own puppets,
31 and another Soviet sattelite is born (what they used to call a colony
32 in the old days). Sure Russia doesn't need the oil (they export the stuff)
33 but who ever said that was what they were after? Heck, they would LOVE to
34 gain control of the mideast oil, it would be great for them. They would
35 have an added source of income by selling the mideast oil which they
36 could very much use to boost their lagging economy. And they would have
37 the added enjoyment of selling it to the western countries while they
38 use the profits to boost arms production, and support to countries 
39 that they haven't taken over yet. That as well as gaining a very strategic
40 position in Europe. Oil itself is just a side issue in the mideast thing,
41 it gives the countries reason to do what they want. I would be willing to
42 bet that Russia is working very strongly to get into South Africa. There 
43 they could gain control over a major portion of the worlds chromium supply
44 as well as a few other precious metals that South Africa happens to be
45 the home of because of a pecular geological distortion of the land.
46 Again Russia doesn't need the chromium, they are the other exporter of
47 the stuff. But they would love to gain control of it for their own uses.
48 Starting out a fresh disk with more ranting...at the top as they say...
49 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ fred ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
50 ========================================================================
51 The Russians aren't interested in oil? That's got to be the dumbest 
52 thing I've ever heard. It's the same as saying saying they're not 
53 interested in treasure and wealth, because that's what oil is. How 
54 could you possibly believe that? It makes no sense at all. 
55                                         Boris
56 ========================================================================
57 WHO CARES?
58 ###################################################################
59 Up until the Iran story broke Reagan was everybodys hero. He was the
60  most popular president off all time and you fools couldn't say 
61 enough good stuff about him. Now that he has his first major set 
62 back you turn on him with out mercy. You are all a bunch of vultures.
63  The herd mentality rules. You are a bunch of hippocritical fools.
64  You should be ashamed.
65 
66                               Harvey
67 ###################################################################
68 
69 
70 the skin heads will rule the earth
71                 -samoan
72 done
73 God I hope so. 
74 who says "punks not dead"? kill killKILLmy old mans a fatso but you know he owns this house!troy is a nazi punk!
75                       the SAMOAN_
76 done
77 
78 
79 will someone list some new bouletin
80 board #'s?
81  
82 
83 ****************************************
84 samoanizm is the key to our survival
85   *wemust join the skinheads in their
86 revolution.  here's what you must do:
87       -by an ax
88       -buy a studded leather jacket
89       -call derek and tell           him that your a brther skin            head.
90       -and most of all, slam to the
91          ANGRY SAMOANS     
92 
93                    *the SAMOAN_
94 
95 ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
96 Oh God Yes. Yes, Yes, Yes. I've already
97 got my ax. My mommy is making me a studded
98 leather jacket. Oh yes. Oh God. How I want
99 to kill. Help me. Help me. Show me the way.
100 I'll do anything you ask. 
101 
102               Nervil Slambucket
103 ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
104 This is so inspirational I just can't believe it. It makes me feel so, well, just so intellectual. Where else could you read
105 such good stuff.
106 
107 WHO CARES?
108 ____12/06/86__________________JD 2446771.5205_________16:29:36_PST_________
109 ()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()
110 
111 FOR THE DUDE WHO WANTED BBS NUMBERS      THE BEST BBS IN THE WORLD(SOMETIMES)
112 IS I.B.B.S. -  503-292-xxxx
113 THE "FARM BBS" IS COOL TOO IF YOU LIVE  CLOSE ENOUGH TO IT TO NOT PAY LONG
114 DISTANCE.  FARM BBS  206-264-xxxx.
115 BOTH BBS'S LET YOU DOWNLOAD KILLER      SYUFF THE FIRST TIME YOU LOG-ON DUDE
116 AND IT DONT COST A CENT. I THINK THEIR
117 PRETTY RAD AND IF YOU CALL THEM THEN
118 YOULL THINK SO TOO.  
119 
120     CAN ANYBODY OUT THERE DO A JUDO-AIR
121 OR EVEN A STREET PLANT OR ANY OTHER  
122 TRICKS . IF SO LET ME KNOW!
123    (YOULL ONLY UNDERSTAND THAT LAST PART IF YOU SKATE) 
124 
125      WELL, HAPPY TRAILS
126 
127 ()()()()()()()()()()()()SKATER DUDE()()()()()()()()()()()()()
128 
129 
130 ``````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
131 First, let's get something straight.  Russia, in case you haven't heard, is now
132 a net importer of oil. NOT AN EXPORTER. 
133    Second, what would happen if Russia got control of the world's oil? Simple,
134 they would get a lot of money.  What would they do with it? Spend it?  If the
135 y spent it in the U.S. then you have what is commonly known as world trade.
136 This would mean that soon they would become as dependent on foreign 
137 manufacturing as we are. Then, it would become even harder for them to blow
138 us up than it is now.  Any attempt by them to control our economy would result
139 in the destruction of the economy that is supplying them with products.
140    Some people wonder why we sell grain to the Russians if we are supposed to
141 be enemies. The reason is that since we produce so much grain and other food
142 we are held captive by our own production.  We could no more stop selling grain
143 to Russia than we could drop atom bombs on our farms.  The same thing would 
144 happen to them if they ugained control of the world's oil. Since oil is only
145 vaulable when it is bringing in money they MUST make it available to the largest
146 consumers, namely the U.S.  Any attempt to make it less available,i.e. blackmail
147 or raising prices, destroys it's economic efectiveness.  If Russia grabbed oil,
148 then told the U.S. that they would no longer allow us to have it, if a world
149 war did not result, within ten years an oil substitute would render all that 
150 oil vauleless.
151 
152    One other thing, just what vaulable countries has Russia seized within the 
153 last twenty years?  None.   Of course, they got quite a few useful ones right
154 after WWII, but after consolidating those holdings, they haven't picked up
155 any others worth real money.  Neither, as a matter of fact, has the U.S..
156 I would say that with the exception of a small amount of minor posturing
157 that will continue indefinitly, the World Powers are pretty much set.  Over a
158 great strech of years, or generations, there will in time come new World Powers,
159 but I think that the era of gigantic changes in World Power is over, killed by
160 the atomic bomb.  Historically, economic control of a country usually does not
161 result in direct control of a country.  The army still has to move in.
162 ```````````````````````Mr. Interceptor```````````````````````````````````
163 Is there anything inspirational on this bulletin board?  I am new to this
164 form of computing.
165 
166 Are there any phone numbers available for information libraries or other 
167 information services?
168                    allen
169 ***************************************************************************
170 exit
171 O\=<([V2V])>=/O
172 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
173 What countries have Russia taken under its wings? Well, how about Afganistan
174 for starters. Tanks in the streets is usually a pretty good indication that
175 they've decided to do that. Now you may not think that it is a significant
176 country, and from a standpoint of assests there isn't much there, but for
177 Russia it is an important step in gaining control of the area. But to be more
178 direct in a country that maybe even you would consider important, there is 
179 of course Cuba. The take over of that country by Castro was a great coup for
180 Russia since it gave them access to a base on our doorstep which they didn't
181 have before. Russia does not have significant imports of oil from western
182 countries. If you consider the transport of oil from their satelite countries
183 as import, then yes, they import oil, I personally don't consider that
184 importing, I consider it more along the lines of moving oil from alaska 
185 to the lower 48. As for what they would do with the money, they would do the
186 same thing they have always done, send it on weapons production. Russia has
187 always put greater importance on military strength than we have, diverting a
188 larger portion of their economy to that end than we usually have. As for 
189 being dependant on us economically, it's doubtful, if you remember, during
190 the wheat embargo they didn't have any problem at all, they just went elsewhere
191 to buy it. We aren't the only country in the world you know.
192 Also keep in mind the Russia attitude which is to self-reliance, they are
193 very proud of their country and have no intention of letting it ever be
194 compromised. 
195 Oh yes, as for oil production, some usful information. It was figured out during
196 the last oil embargo what price oil had to get to to trip transfer to another
197 source. At $1.50 a gallon it becomes cost effective to mix alcohol and gas.
198 At $2.50 it becomes cost effective to switch to an entirely new source.
199 While the mideast oil is an important source for the western countries,
200 even if it was cut off totally, there are enough other sources to keep it
201 in the range of alcohol mix pricing, and not a complete substitution. 
202 That will change in time, in the not too distant future even the prodigous
203 wells in the mid east will go dry, along with most of the other wells in
204 the world, and that is what will drive the price high enough to trip a 
205 conversion to something else. Biggest probablilities are Methane, Alcohol,
206 or Hydrogen. 
207 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ fred ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
208 listen youolitical bozos, do you actually thing that peoople call this board tosee  that babbling about russia?!
209                    *SAMOAN_
210 
211 ()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()
212 YEA ,, SAMOAN(WHOEVER HE IS) IS RIGHT
213 MAN. NOBODY WANTS TO HEAR DAT STUFF.
214 
215 TERMANIL GRAPHICS(RAD)!
216 
217             \__________
218               O      O
219  
220 SKATEBOARD DUDE! HERES A TOP VIEW!
221 
222           |\__/-----\
223           |          |
224           |/--\_____/
225 WOW MAN THATS HARD TO DO!
226 HERES A RAMP DUDE!
227  
228 _____                     _____
229 |    \                   /    |
230 |     \                 /     |
231 |      \               /      |
232 |       \             /       |
233 |        \           /        |
234 |         \         /         |
235 |__________\_______/__________|
236 
237 NOW THATS RAD!(SORTA)
238 
239 ........LATER........
240 ()()()()()()()()()()()SKATER DUDE()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()
241 ***************************************
242 Ok, you wise guys, why is the mideast    so important to anyone?
243 Why not let them alone and kill them-
244 selves off if that's what they want?
245 Good riddence I s	ay. What do we care
246 happens to them anyway. What would we
247 want with a stupid desert. I think 
248 this whole thing is stupid.
249 ***************************************
250 WHO CARES?
251 
252 {I entered about twenty lines of biochemical acid infighting within my mind,
253 and this computer locked up. It lost it, I didn't. I am used to losing control
254 over what I  am trying to say, but I had done a good job- And this computer
255 froze. It just sent those words, osmosis, Oil, and it just got real tricky.}
256 
257 /\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\
258     Yaaaj!
259 /\/\/\/\/\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\//\//\\//\\//    -     Gajarel
260 
261 I, the great SAMOAN, need help to get this stupid political crap off the board.
262 I'm looking for loyal punk folowers to
263 revolt with me.
264                      *SAMOAN_
265 
266 ################################################################################                         NO         
267          NO MESSAGES   OVER  15 LINES!
268 
269 ########################################
270 to skater dude:
271 
272    I think that you would make a good 
273 follower.  Jump on your board and skate on over!  Are you a skate punk or just another skater geek?
274                         *SAMOAN_
275   
276 
277 
278 
279             EXPLOITED! 
280              punks not dead!
281                    ---
282 
283 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
284 .-.Skating.away.on.the.thin.ice.of.a.new.day.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.Emu
285 ++++++Trying+to+cope+with+"dead week"++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++Milch
286 ()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()
287 
288 I AINT A SKATE GEEK(WHAT EVER THAT IS)AND I AINT A SKATE PUNK. 
289 I'M A SKATER... PERIOD. AND A GOOD ONEAT THAT... DUDE. 
290 SKATING JUST ISN'T A SPORT OR ACTIVITY ITS A WAY OF LIFE. WELL... TO SOME 
291 DUDES ITS JUST A SPORT BUT NOT ME.
292 AND IM SORTA ALREADY IN GANG, AND WE  ALL SKATE.  
293  JUST WHAT IS IT YOU AND YOUR DUDES   DO.. KILL INICENT PEOPLE AND KITTENS
294  AND WHATS THE ASTERICK IN FRONT OF
295 YOUR NAME FOR SAMOAN. AND ARE YOU     REALLY A TOUGH GANG LEADER OR ARE 
296 YOU SOME WUSS WITH THICK RIMMED 
297 GLASSES TRYING TO BE ONE. 
298  
299 
300  WELL SKATER DUDE SKATING OFF...
301 
302 ()()()()()()()()()()()SKATER DUDE()()()()()()()()()()()()(()()()()()()()()
303 If the USSR gets the mideast, we wil be short of oil. $2.50/gallon may be a
304 trigger point, but it'll take years to get decent yields from those alter-
305 native sources. Plus we use oil for a *lot* more than fuel & lubrication.
306 Plastics & fertilizer are important uses.
307 Also with control of the mideast, the USSR would have a *warm-water* port. 
308 This is beacoup bad news from a strategic point of view!
309 Finally, if you consider their history, they've got every reason to be the
310 kind of paranoid SOB's they are. (lessee now, Napoleon invades & gets out with
311 heavy losses on both sides. Then I believe they were involved in the Crimean
312 War. Then WW I & the revolution. Please note that the *allies* invaded Russia
313 to try and reverse the revolution! Then the major losses during WW II.)
314 ____12/07/86__________Leonard_JD 2446772.7139_________21:08:10_PST_________
315 WHO CARES?
316 zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzippy
317 Harvey,
318      I am deeply insulted. I have never had a pro-Reagan attitude, and feel the
319 man is not competent to run a country such as this one. 
320      
321      There, now that that's out, the subject at hand.
322 (seems any world debate topic ends up with the Soviets)
323      The point about the Soviet attitude is absolutely correct. Constant
324 hammering, invasions, and back-stabbing are responsible for the attitude.
325      As for as control of the Middle East, it is indeed a huge strategic 
326 advantage to anyone who can claim such control. It would also be cause for 
327 World War III. Effective control of such a regoin would criple the US oil 
328 supply, alternative sources or not, and would toss such an economic wrench into
329 the machine that the US would be all but forced to take military action. 
330      To back this up, most projected scenarios for WWIII assume nasy werkings
331 in the Middle East... Of course, there's also South America...
332      Peace,
333 zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzippy
334 O\=<([V2V])>=/O
335 Zzzzzzzzzziipppp: THAT EXPLAINED IT. YOU`RE A REAGAN HATER. YOU'RE THEREFORE
336      A CARTER "LOVER".
337 NMNMNMNMNMNMNMNMNMNMNMNMNMNMNMNMNMNMNMNM
338 well, people it seems to me that we have 2 different conversations going on
339 here, why don't we join the two
340 together, and converse about mutated 
341 samoan potatoes that skate in the middle east.
342 
343 
344                 I skate Natas
345                 and I aint no
346                 punk,                                   and I aint no          
347                 geek.                                   what I is,             
348                 is a BEATLES                            freak!
349 
350 NMNMNMNMNMNMNMNMNMNMNM hippie MNMNMNMNMN
351 SKATE DUDE: WHY DON'T YA JUST PUT ROLLERS TO YOUR COMMODE AND SKATE ON
352             IT ON I-84, I-5, 205, OR 405!!!! TAKE YOUR PICK.
353                                                               `N
354 WHO CARES?
355 ()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()
356 HEY MAN WHOS THE BEATLES FREAK?!
357 
358 WELL I BEEN DOIN SOME NEW TRICKS AND  TRYIN TO PERFECT'M ALL WEEK AND I 
359 THINK I GOT'M PRETTY WELL DOWN.
360 
361 THE DUDES I KNOW WHO SKATE WITH ME ARE TRYIN'M TOO MAN. DUDES!! ANYBODY   
362 GOIN TO THE DAVID LEE ROTH CONCERT AT THE COLLISEUM TONIGHT! I HEAR ITS   
363 GONNA BE RAD! I MIGHT GO THERE AND TAKE MY BOARD AND SKATE AROUND THERE.
364 
365  ANYBODY OUT THERE LIKE SLIME BALL WHEELS? WELL I GOT'M. I ALSO HAVE INDY
366 169 TRUCKS AND BONES BEARINGS. TO TOP IT OFF IV'E GOT A RAD Z BLANK PAINTED
367 BLACK COVERED WITH STICKERS. I GOT    GORILLA RIBS ON IT TOO DUDE.
368 
369 WELL JUST THOUGHT YOU MIGHT WANT TO   GET TO KNOW MY BOARD BETTER.
370 
371    ........SEE.YA.DUDES.........
372 I DONT SKATE FOR SATAN I SKATE FOR     MYSELF.
373 ()()()()()()()()()()()SKATER DUDE()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()
374 ____12/08/86__________________JD 2446773.5948_________18:16:29_PST_________

375 WELL, I TELL YOU KIDDIES WHAT.  MR. TRIPPLE FIVE IS BACK IN FULL FORCE
376 WITH HIS NEW DUMP BASE, SO WE BE STEPPIN ON OUT HERE.
377 YOU KIDDIES AINT NEVER GOING TO LEARN.
378 WE DON'T FORGIVE.
379 WE DON'T FORGET.
380 WE ARE THE MAFIA.
381 
382 [
383 
384 TELL YOU WHAT
385 
386 YA[
387 THATS RIGHT....
388 WHO CARES?
389 O\=<([V2V])>=/O
390 ````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
391  Of course I don't consider Afganistan a stratigic country.  However, one 
392 function iit is serving is to keep the Russian generals busy. It looks like
393 Russia is going to be stuck in Afganistan until the last Afgan is dead. 
394 Another nice thing that this does is make them a nice crop of enemies in the
395 Mideast, since it is hard for them to cosy up to the oil sheiks while their
396 busy killing people in Afganistan.  I see also that you could not come up
397 with any important gains in the last 20 years, thus proving my point.
398   As for Cuba being an important stratigic gain for them, that is not true.
399 Yes, it is located close by, but we have not allowed them to station missiles
400 on Cuba, which they don't need to do anyway, since their missile carrying subs
401 can easily lick anything we have positiioned in silos.  They cannot mass a large
402 army on Cuba without us knowing about it, after all troop movements of any
403 serious magnitude won't be able to be completly hidden.  Even as a spy and 
404 radio intercepting point Cuba is not worth much, since they do the majority
405 of that out of their embassy and U.N. mission in New York.
406 About the only real use Cuba is to them is as a propaganda gain, but after all,
407 fair is fair,  our biggest propaganda gain is a divided Germany, one that
408 they cannot equal. 
409     A few years ago we did indeed place an embargo on wheat.  What good did 
410 this do?  Nothing.  All that happened was that they went elsewhere, and bought
411 AMERICAN wheat from foreign middlemen.  We may have not allowed wheat to be 
412 sold directly to Russia, but we were still producing it full blast, and it had
413 to go somewhere. Mostly, it ended up in the same place that it had gone before
414 the embargo.
415      As far as Russia spending a tremendous gain of money on arms, this is a
416 statement that has no meaning in the Russian economy. In the U.S., if the 
417 pentagon gains 10 million from the government it then goes to 'private'
418 industry and spends it. If the pentagon, and the U.S. government does not
419 have the money, then the arms are not bought.
420     In Russia, if the army wants a new weapon, it gets it. It does not buy it
421 from a company in the country, the Russian bureau of Industry dictates that
422 a factory be built and the weapon be produced. The Russian army does not 
423 operate with money, it just decides what it needs and the government directs
424 the country to give it to them.
425     What I am trying to say is that if Russia gained control of the Mideast oil
426 , then sold it to the U.S. then those dollars would be useless unless they
427 were spent OUTSIDE the country. Russia's exported good, oil, would only have
428 value to them if they recieved an import of some kind in return.
429 `````````````````````````Mr. Interceptor````````````````````````````````````
430 ()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()
431 WELL IM BACK!
432 
433 YES ITS THE ONE AND ONLY....SKATER DUDE
434 WELL DONT GOT MUCH TO SAY EXCEPT I DONT 
435 KNOW WHAT ALL THIS RUSSIA STUFF IS      
436 SUPOSED TO ACCOPLISH. 
437 
438            /
439           /O
440          /
441         /
442        /O
443      _/
444  OLLIE!
445 LATER!
446 ()()()()()()()()()()()()()SKATER DUDE()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()
447 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
448 Zippy - Hell, Reagan isn't competent enough to run his own life, let alone
449 a country - of any size.
450 As for anyone gaining control over the mid east (if that would ever really
451  possible - look at Afganistan -) I doubt that it would be cause for WW-III.
452 When the oil embargo of a few years ago hit it caused a lot of people to
453 reevaluate their dependance on one suppier. As such the dependance has been
454 reduced to some extent. It has resulted in the current glut in oil. Also,
455 many of the heavy users have setup alternatives to oil if it comes to that
456 most power companies can now switch to coal if they need to. And also keep
457 in mind that only 30% of the worlds oil supply comes from the mid east.
458 while that is a significant amount, its loss isn't irreplacable.
459 Any way on to the other person. While *you* may not consider Russia invading
460 Afganistan significant, I do. And Cuba very much *IS* an important stratigic
461 gain for Russia. It gives them access to a base in the Western hemisphere
462 that they didn't have before. And once Russia gets a country, it doesn't
463 let it go like America and other western countries have. Poland tries to 
464 break away... tanks in the streets. Hungery tires to break away... tanks in
465 the streets. Czechoslovakia...tanks in the streets. And they call *us*
466 imperialistic war mongers....
467 Cuba serves them as a base for many operations in the western hemisphere,
468 including the continued stiring up of trouble in Central America. This
469 would be VERY much more difficult for them without someone in the area
470 that knows the ropes.
471 And while we are speaking of Germany... Least we forget the near accomplished
472 feat of the takeover of West Berlin by the Russians. Stratigically Berlin
473 has no real value, but politically it is very hot. Tus the end result of
474 a near war with Russia and the walling up of Berlin. 
475 To the other guy who made a comment about it being years to tool up for
476 another form of fuel, that's not true. We already know what can be done
477 when you have to. Germany did quite well during WWII with almost no oil
478 imports and still damn near won the war. America too survived on much less
479 domestic oil use than it was used to. A complete shutdown of all oil would
480 be disastorous yet, but that isn't realistic since we still produce a little
481 over 50%-60% of our own oil. That mixed with Alcohol and propane/methane
482 which are easy conversions to make, costing less then $200 in small production
483 quantities per conversion, would serve until a more stable energy form 
484 (my bet would be hydrogen) would come up to speed.
485 An odd side effect of all that other countries would be hurt by the loss
486 of food exports by the US, since land use would be diverted from food
487 crops to fuel crops, thus reducing or possibly eliminating the excess
488 food production and thus export.
489 One final sarcastic note to the previous person, While it is true that
490 America works normally on money, when the government wants weapons, it
491 just takes more money out of our pockets to pay us with so they can get
492 their weapons. I don't consider that to be all that much different than
493 the Russian methode where they move people from making cars to making
494 tanks. And they do pay them money in Russia to by the way.... It's just
495 that their economy works a little different than ours does.
496 Of course in America the people can always refuse to pay anymore money
497 towards weapons, so what does the government do? It goes ahead and makes
498 them anyway anad pays for it by printing up more money. That's how the
499 Veitnam war got financed. Our economies may be differently based, but
500 the real end result is the same. 
501 To the person who wanted to know where all this leads and why we do it -
502 We do it because it helps us to present our opinions to other people
503 who don't think like us and to see other opinions thus being able to
504 see the world in a way that is different then our own little reality
505 we like to wrap ourselves up in. It is a way to expand the conciousness
506 beyond the limiting bariers of our own eyes and ears. To see the world
507 as others see it. Sure we may not agree with the other person on everything,
508 and maybe we do agree on other things (though what we believe and what
509 we debate may be two different items, I myself like to argue a point 
510 simply to see how it feels. Maybe I'll switch over to a different belief
511 after exploring it, or maybe it will reenforce my current belief on the
512 subject, or maybe I'll be left undecided in which case I'll shelve the
513 idea for later evaluation or just forget it if it isn't important.)
514 As to where it all leads... world wise, nowhere. anything I rant and
515 rave about here won't change the world as a whole at all. What it will
516 do though is change how I see the world. My reality is made up of how
517 I see the world. The world as a whole is made up of how everyone in the 
518 world see's their own realities. All of that is combined into one world
519 reality of the human race. Which has nothing to do with the world reality
520 of any other inhabitant of this planet say like the ant, which has it's
521 own seperate individual and world realities.
522 So what I am trying to do is to see outside myself, to see how others see
523 the world, by so doing I can expand my own world to include a veiwpoint 
524 of others I share this world with and thereby (hopefully) be able to better
525 understand this crazy world we live in. And then maybe I can have an impact
526 on the world, at least my reality of it.
527 A more crude way to look at it is that debate is exercise for the mind.
528 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ fred ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
529 Mr. Interceptor: Sorry, but submarine launched missiles don't have the accuracy
530 to be used against anything much smaller than a city. Thus they are useless 
531 against silos. 
532 By the way, the problem is that the *sub* doesn't know where it is, not that the
533 missile guidance system is inaccurate. In fact one of the uncertainties
534 in current strategic planning is that while we know very precisely where
535 any given point in north & south America is with respect to any other 
536 (down to inches!) and the same goes for Africa/Europe/Asia, we don't know
537 at all accurately where Europe etc are with respect to the Americas! The
538 error is several orders of magnitude greater. This is all due to the fact
539 that the only practical way to tie the two sets of survey grids together 
540 would be across the Bering Strait.... and both the US & USSR would rather
541 live with the uncertainty in *their* calculations than remove it from the
542 other side's.
543 Also don't bet on there being no missiles in Cuba. The launch sites were
544 finished. We stopped the missiles from being shipped... then. In the 23
545 years since then any number of missiles could have been moved in. I find
546 it unlikely that they would have done so, but they *could* have.
547 ____12/09/86__________Leonard_JD 2446774.7114_________21:04:28_PST_________
548 WHO CARES?
549 Such a God-damned nerd! Screw off! No   one wants to listen any more!
550 No one cares!
551 ???? how did you all know??? it seems to me that I dialed a know-it-all
552      bored??? Since, you are all seemed to know everything in this world,
553      how would you like to work in the NSC?? and probably make proposals
554      on solving world problems, since some of you even insulted our own
555      highest elected official, dismissing him as "couldn't even manage
556      his own life" how did you know??? have you walk a mile in his shoes??
557      TELL YOU WHAT.... unless we live united like "ants" as  one of you
558      mentioned (by the way, did you know how ants live?) we might as
559      well ........                                        ... perish!!!!
560 ````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
561  I do work in the NSC.
562 ````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
563  Interesting, about the uncertainity factor, have you ever heard of 
564 Heisenberg?
565   As far as secretly hiding missiles in Cuba, there are only two possible
566 alternatives.  First, there are no missiles in Cuba.   Second, there are,
567 and we are keeping quite about it because we don't want to stir up
568 trouble.  I don't accept the propisition that Cuba has hidden missiles on
569 the island, our military spy system is far too good for that.  At any rate
570 , since most of that information is classified, it is stupid to debate 
571 detail work since any information we have access to is undoubtedly going to
572 be ten years out of date.  After all, do you realize that the Air Force
573 still does not officially admit to using spy sattelites, if that commonly
574 known information is still 'classified' imagine what is still secret.
575 I would prefer to rip up Reagan, it is easier to do and provokes more 
576 outraged responses from the punks and conservative rag tag on this board.
577 ````````````````````````Mr. Interceptor````````````````````````````````````
578 What God-damned nerds! None of you     listen to the others. None of you ev
579 care about the others opinions. Its a  pathetic & pretentious way to feel
580 smart. Case in point: "I *AM* IN THE   NSC" None of you are. Don't fake it.
581 Dont rant and rave here about your     poser dreams of importanse. Spare me
582 your idle fantasies, make the world    a better place.
583 Stupid nerds...
584                    need something to do.   instead of ranting tirades towar
585 ds the punks and conservatives on this     board.  Why don't we all rag
586 tag leftist and commie pinkos organized    and support other leftist like
587 Daniel Ellsberg, Abbie Hoffman, Jane       Fonda, Amy Carter, Benedict
588 Arnold,etc. etc.  What have we got to      lose except Golda Meier's panty
589 hose|||||||||.....
590 `MR INTERCEPTOR:  "OFFICIALLY ADMIT" ?  TO WHOM???? IT'S ALLRIGHT FOR
591 YOU TO RIP UP YOUR PRESIDENT???  AND ADORE THE GREAT PEACEMAKER" MIKAIL
592 JUST LIKE WHAT JONATHAN NICHOLAS DID??? BY THE WAY, NICHOLAS IS ALSO
593 KNOWN AS THE PLAGIARIST OF THE OREGONIAN FISHWRAPPER.....
594 ```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
595 I love it! just a scant 4 hours and already the religious rot is just 
596 getting started!   
597    To the Unsigned above, I guess you lost your sense of humor at an early
598 age, of course I am not in the NSC.  I also guess you don't care much about
599 your own opinions, since you won't leave a handle to which we can refer.
600 Also, it is alright for me to rip up president Reagan. I never voted 
601 for him in '80(and 	I also did not vote for Carter, either) or in '84.
602 I have been totally opposed to 99% of the decisions he has made since he
603 was in office, and knocking him now about this Iran thing is perfectly
604 consistent whith my opinion.  If I were in his shoes, I would not expect
605 my opponents to turn hypocrite just because I was caught in the cookie
606 jar.   Further, just because I dislike Reagan, does not mean I dislike the
607 American system.  Reagan, just because he is president, does not 
608 necessairly represent the American people, or the American system of 
609 government.  Espically now, with the revalations that are coming to light,
610 Reagan has lost any claim he had to representing me.  I thought being an
611 American meant being honest, not lying to your friends. Yet this is just
612 what Reagan has done to us, and to George Schultz, for example.
613 Piss on him, and his incompetent administration, I pray that he is rendered
614 helpless before he destroys everything of value
615 ````````````````````````Mr. Interceptor````````````````````````````````````
616 Zippy- don't be so depressing, at least congress feels SOME money pressure.

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