626 lines
37 KiB
Plaintext
626 lines
37 KiB
Plaintext
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FILE ON
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MARGIN IS 80
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STATUS: ALL ALLOWED
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NUMBER OF LINES: 629
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1 If you are in need of help, you need but ask....
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2 ************************ REMOVED 1 FEB 84 ******************
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3 Welcome to BWMS (BackWater Message System) Mike Day System operator
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4 ************************************************************
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5 GENERAL DISCLAIMER: BWMS IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY INFORMATION
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6 PLACED ON THIS SYSTEM.
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7 BWMS was created as an electronic bill board. BWMS is a privatly owned
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8 and operated system which is currently open for use by the general public.
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9 No restrictions are placed on the use of the system. As the system is
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10 privatly owned, I retain the right to remove any and all messages which
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11 I may find offensive. Because of the limited size of the system, it will be
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12 periodically purged of messages. (only 629 lines of data can be saved)
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13 To leave a message, type 'ENTER' and use ctrl/C or break to get out of the
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14 ENTER mode. The message is automatically stored. If after entering the
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15 message you find you made a mistake, use the replace command to replace
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16 the line. To exit from the system, type 'OFF' then hang up.
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17 Type 'HELP' to see other commands that are available on the system.
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18 ************************************************************
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19
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20 *********************************************************:
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21 I WOULD LIKE TO RECOUNT AND INTERESTING THING THAT HAPPENED LAST
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22 NIGHT. AROUND MIDNIGHT WHEN I WAS GETTING READY FOR BED, I HEARD
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23 A GNAWING NOISE COMING FROM MY LIVING ROOM. WONDERING WHAT IT WAS
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24 I WENT IN TO SEE, BUT DIDN'T SEE ANYTHING SO I PASSED IT OFF AS
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25 JUST MY IMAGINATION. BUT THEN A LITTLE LATTER I HEARD IT AGAIN SO
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26 I CHECKED AGAIN. STILL NOTHING, BUT AS I STOOD THERE WONDERING
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27 WHAT IT WAS I HEARD IT AGAIN. IT WAS COMING FROM OUTSIDE MY
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28 WINDOW! OH NO! I THOUGHT, IS A MOUSE TRYING TO GET IN? I OPENED
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29 THE CURTAIN TO LOOK OUT AND SEE IF I COULD SEE ANYTHING, AND I
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30 HEARD A BIG SPLASH AS SOMETHING JUMPED INTO THE CREEK THAT FLOWS
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31 OUTSIDE MY LIVING ROOM WINDOW. ODD I THOUGHT, WHAT WOULD A DUCK
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32 BE DOING GNAWING AROUND MY WINDOW. NOT THINKING MUCH MORE ABOUT
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33 IT I WENT BACK ABOUT MY BUSINESS. THEN A LITTLE BIT LATTER THE
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34 GNAWING SOUND CAME BACK. THIS TIME I DECIDED TO SEE IF I COULD
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35 CATCH WHAT EVER WAS DOING IT IN THE ACT, SO I TURNED OFF THE
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36 LIGHTS AND SLOWLY OPENED THE CURTAIN. AND LOW AND BEHOLD, THERE
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37 IT WAS, A BEAVER! HE WAS CHEWING AWAY AT A SHRUB THAT GROWS IN
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38 FRONT OF THE WINDOW. I SHUED HIM AWAY, BUT HE CAME BACK SEVERAL
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39 TIMES. FINALY AFTER A WHILE HE DIDN'T COME BACK SO I THOUGHT I
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40 HAD GOTTEN RID OF HIM. BUT WHEN I WOKE THIS MORNING AND LOOKED
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41 OUT HALF OF THE SHRUB WAS GONE. APPARENTLY HE CAME BACK LATER AND
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42 GOT WHAT HE WAS AFTER. NOW THE QUESTION IS, WHAT WAS A BEAVER
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43 DOING IN THE MIDDLE OF A RESIDENTIAL DISTRICT IN PORTLAND?
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44 VERY STRANGE!
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45 **************** CISTOP MIKEY *******************************
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46
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47 XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
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48 Night closes in on the forest to find Tarn still sitting
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49 beneath the tree. He has light a small camp fire to ward off the
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50 darkness, but it is far too small to be overly effective. Worry
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51 fills him and once again he is troubled. Where has Emer gone?
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52 Always she seems to be off traveling somewhere. Fear fills Tarns
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53 heart as he watches the flickering shadows. Is one of them Emer
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54 lurking in the shadows of the trees, or has his fevered
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55 imagination conjured up spirits to fill this dreadful night?
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56 Leaving his place several times to see, he finds nothing but the
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57 forboding undergrowth to satisfy his curiousity. Fearing to try
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58 again to only return emptyhanded again, dejectedly Tarn collapses
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59 against the tree and pulls his cloak about him once again to
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60 watch the dying flames of the fire.
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61 * Tarn *
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62 XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
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63 WELL, HERE'S THE MORE I PROMISED.ONE OF EVOLUTIONS GREATESTS BOAST IS
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64 THE CAMBRIAN LAYER. THIS DISCOVERY UNRAVELS THE EARTHS EVOLUTION, BE-
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65 GINNING WITH VEGETATION, THEN BIRDS AND FISHES, LATER DOMESTIC AND
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66 LAND ANIMALS, AND ULTIMATELY MAN. GENESIS 1:11 TELLS ABOUT THE FIRST
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67 LAYER VEGETATION. ALSO THE FIRST LAYER OF CAMBRIAN. NEXT IN VERSE 20
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68 THE CREATURES OF THE DEEP. AND VERSE 24 LAND ANIMALS. YOU CAN GUESS THE
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69 REST. MAN EVENTUALLY CAME ALONG. MAY I ALSO POINT OUT THE DICTIONARY
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70 MEANING OF EVOLUTION. A GRADUAL DEVELOPMENT OF WORKING OUT, TO OPEN
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71 AND EXPAND. AS IN VARIETY.
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72 !?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?DEBORAH!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
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73 %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
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74 The point I am to make seems a little off the curent disscussion but ....
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75 It seems to me that the ultimate purpose of Creation/Evolution theories
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76 is to come up with a means to justify our existance. It would seem that
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77 our species suffers from an enourmous inferiority complex, and it is this
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78 that perpetuates the diatribe that started most likely long before the
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79 bible (Christian) was in any recognizable form. What is the cause of this ?
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80 Is it the immensity of our world and the cosmos ? or is it a genetic
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81 defect that has been passed down over the centuries. It will be interest-
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82 ing to see if only our species has this urge (?) provided we ever do
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83 make contact with another race. Assuming whales are intelligent (by our
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84 standards) (?) do they feel the same as we on the land ? A biblical ver-
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85 sion of creation would classify them as beasts, therefor inferior to man
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86 , therefor lacking intelligence (read a soul).. But assume (pretend?)
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87 that they were created (biblically) (Christian of course) with a soul also.
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88 (Evidence would suggest that whales are intelligent, so the argument is
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89 not entirely silly). Would they not too then have a similar account of
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90 the "bible" i.e. creation as us land dwellers ? As the word of God is
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91 the universal truth they should . Interesting concept, at any rate. Hope
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92 fully someday we may know the answer.\
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93 %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Mr. Tim %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
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94 P.S. I apoligize for the rather disjointed prose, but ...........
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95 %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
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96 ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
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97 deborah,alny i
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99 whoops,gte strikes again,one miniut your typing and the next you have no
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100 phone survice for 22 minuts.again
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101
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102 deborah,any idea who the person on disk b is who has so much faith in hgod
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103 that he will not even sign his(her?) name? the statements reminded me of
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104 "1984" way too much,"whatever he says goes" ? i dont call this wrong,only
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105 a little narrow minded,what of the countless other "bibles" around like the
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106 koran(jewish) bible.it is different then the king james/old testament/
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107 whatever.and also has the same proof going for it.not to mention the
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108 1.99999+e37 eastern religions.who is right? i think nobody is because if
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109 there was a "god" then most religions would agree with each other
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110 the iran/iraq thing(war) has been going on for so long only because of
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111 religion.there for i belive that there is no god.i think that all off the
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112 bibles/words of god/whatever were invented independantly by most races for
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113 the purpose of explaning things which they could not understand,like "why is
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114 the sky blue" your avarage middle ages person would have said "god made it
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115 this way" in the late 19 century john w.s. rayleigh found out it was because
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116 oxygen scatters blue light more effectivly then any other due to its atomic
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117 structure."why do we grow old and die?" is one that is now being answered by
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118 science,it's not because we are going to metet our "maker" it due to natural
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119 and man made toxens,hormone death clocks and improper nutrition.we can
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120 explain every disease that affects man,none are caused by an unknown factor
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121 (god/devel).oh well,i've spouted enough for now.
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122
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123 for the gentalbeing on drive b,minds are like parachutes-they oly funtion
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124 when open.
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125
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126 The Man in Gray
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127 ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
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128 p.s. for those of you who belleive in god as defined by the bible
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129 read second kings 2:23,my interpritations on this is that elihja went to
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130 bethal and was taunted by little kids.i quote"go up thou bald head"
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131 at this point the good profit curses thease kids in the name of god.god then
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132 sends 2 female bears to mangle/kill 42 little children for taunting
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133 old man,i find it hard to believe/worship/ a god that would do this.
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134 if you had been a traveler in this time and helped thease defensless kids
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135 then you would be evil,going against the work of god
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136
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137 appatising thoughts eh?
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138 The Man in Gray
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139 ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
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140 Dear M.i.G.: the Koran is the Islamic, not Judaic bible.
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141 I am enjoying the current return to bellicose argumentation, but I hope we've
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142 not seen the last of the multi-author stories. Arguments I can get at work,
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143 but good tag-team creativity is hard to find.
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144 For myself, I find the current discussion rather meaningless. I mean, it's
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145 already happened, we can't change it, or even directly observe it, so why
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146 bother? I propose a new discussion more pertinent to the here-and-now but
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147 no less esoteric: are we really here at all?
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148 Or if that's too far out, how about this: Why can't educated adults learn
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149 to spell or punctuate properly? I mean it's not THAT hard; we see it done
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150 almost all the time in books and magazines.
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151 Aside to Dr. Buck: I myself have observed that given the proper environment,
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152 perfectly normal Homo Sapiens can become wild bores.
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153 Illegitimi Non Carborundum,
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154 && The Mad Actor &&
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155
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156
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157 ???;????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
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158 Mad Actor,for you i apologiseda spellinc sucketh,i'll admit,but if i may ""
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159 "it's not the quality of typing that counts,but what is said"
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160
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161 also,ever try typing on the kb of an rs mc-10?
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162 in 1791 a rathr normal little funeral party was given for a 35 year old man,a
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163 violent lightning storm caused the pal bearers to run for cover,leaving the
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164 coffen later when they returned it was missing,never to be found.nobody knows
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165 where the mortal remains of the greatist musical
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166 geniuses that has ever lived,Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart.
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167 thought ya might like to know.
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168 i was not around for the previous theology discussion,so it's new to me.you
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169 never mentioned your position on the subject either.
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170 as for"are we here"@i eat/think/move atoms/procreate/recreate/copulate/and yI am
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171 the writing you speek of in books results from the distribion of money
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172 if ya wish to pay me i'll type slow and dysgustingly correct
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173
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174 The Man in Gray
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175 ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
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176 pppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppp
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177
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178 The piper walked into the inn's common room with his pipes carried in the
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179 crook of his left arm. Standing at the bar for a moment he heard several of
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180 the patrons raising their voices in loud dispute.
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181
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182 "The gostak distimms the doshes!!!"
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183 "It does not!! The gostak is distimmed by the doshes!!"
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184 "Enterprising and scientifically correct gostak watchers all agree!!
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185 The gostak distimms the doshes!!!"
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186 "If you have an open mind you are forced to parachute to the conclusion
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187 that I am correct. The gostak is distimmed by the doshes!!!"
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188
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189 A voice of reason speaks out..
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190 "wait.. shouldn't we look at whether the gostak and doshes exist? and...
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191
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192 "How dare you question my beliefs? All credible scientific authorities
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193 agree that the gostak distimms the doshes!!!"
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194 "Reputable scientists have said and evidence favors the fact that the
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195 gostak is distimmed by the doshes!!"
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196 "Any scientist that says that is by definition not reputable!"
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197 "I have proof!"
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198 "I have evidence!"
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199
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200 Turning on his heel, the piper walks out of the common room. Those nearest
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201 the door might have heard him whisper softly as he left
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202 "...what fools these mortals be....."
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203 pppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppp
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205
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212 !?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
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213 MAN IN GREY: NO, I HAVE NO IDEA WHO THE PERSON IS ON DRIVE B THAT MADE
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214 THAT STATEMENT. INTERESTING CONCEPT THO I WOULD SAY.
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215 BY THE WAY THE REASON THAT MOST RELIGIONS DON'T AGREE, IN MY OPINION,
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216 IS THAT MEN GET CARRIED AWAY INTO WANTING FOLLOWERS FOR THEMSELVES. SO
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217 THEY TAKE THESE BOOKS THAT TRULY HAVE ALOT TO OFFER IN WISDOM, AND KNOW-
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218 LEDGE, AND THEY EXPOUND ON THEM, AND ADD THEIR OWN LITTLE INTERPRETATIONS-
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219 WHEREVER THEY FIT. THEN THEY FIND GROUPS OF PEOPLE THAT ARE LOOKING TO BE
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220 CONVINCED IN ONE WAY OR ANOTHER, AND PUT THE SCREWS TO THEM. AND PRETTY
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221 SOON THEY'RE SUPPORTING HIM, AND IN TIME THE THING GROWS. OR THEY SEARCH
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222 OUT PEOPLE THAT ARE IN THE MIDDLE OF SOME TYPE OF TRAMA, AND THEY GIVE
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223 THEM SOME HOPE FOR BETTER TIMES OR PERHAPS A PALITABLE REASON FOR THE
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224 OCCURANCE.(not necessarily wrong but they should know when to lay off)
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225 WHAT I'M TRYING TO SAY IS THAT YOU CAN'T BLAME THE BOOK ANYMORE THAN
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226 YOU CAN BLAME THE MANUFACTURER OF A KNIFE THAT FALLS INTO THE HANDS OF
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227 A MURDERER. WHAT PEOPLE DO WITH THINGS HAS VERY LITTLE TO DO WITH THE
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228 INANIMATE OBJECT ITSELF.
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229 ALL: HERE'S A LITTLE SOMETHING OF INTEREST. THEOF PRINCIPLE RELI-
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230 PENTATUECH (BIBLE) 3,448 YEARS
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231 HINDU "BOOKS OF KNOWLEDGE" (VEDA) 2,475 YEARS
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232 CONFUCION "GREAT LEARNING" (TA-HSUEH) 2,455 YEARS
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233 HEBREW SCRIPTURES COMPLETED (BIBLE) 2,418 YEARS
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234 BUDDIHST SCRIPTURES, "THREE BASKETS" 2,018 YEARS
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235 KORAN (HOLY BOOK OF ISLAM) 1,326 YEARS
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236 SHINTO KOJIKI AND NIHONGI 1,256 YEARS
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237 BOOK OF MORMAN 146 YEARS
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238 ALL PRETTY RECENT FOR A BUNCH OF FOLKS SUPPOSEDLY AROUND FOR MILLIONS
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239 OF YEARS.
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240 SOMETHING WENT GUNNYBAG FOR A MINUTE THERE. THE ABOVE IS THE AGE OF
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241 THE PRICIPLE RELGIOUS WRITINGS. I MUST LEARN HOW TO CORRECT THESE
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242 THINGS. ANYONE WANT TO GIVE ME SOME POINTERS?
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243 !?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!DEBORAH?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
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246 ******************************************************************
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247 TO MAD ACTOR: IF YOU SAW THE ORIGINAL CONDITION MOST OF THE MANUSCRIPTS
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248 THAT ARE PROVIDED FOR THOSE MAGAZINES AND BOOKS WERE IN, YOU WOULD
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249 PROBABLY SHUDDER. THE END RESULT YOU SEE IN THE BOOKS AND MAGAZINES
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250 ARE THE WORK OF MANY PEOPLE CORRECTING STORRY FLOW (EDITTING) AND
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251 THE GRAMMER AND PUNCUATION YOU MENTION (PROOF READING) . IT IS FAR
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252 FROM BEING AS EASY AS YOU INDICATE. THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE IS SO
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253 RIDDLED WITH SPECIAL CASE CONSIDERATIONS THAT EVEN SUPPOSED
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254 EXPERTS HAVE DIFFICULTLY DETERMINING WHAT IS PROPER. SURE THE
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255 PRINTED WORD YOU SEE IS ALL NICE AND PROPER, BUT REMEMBER THAT
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256 IT HAS GONE THRU SEVERAL DOZEN PEOPLE WHO MAKE A LIVING AT THAT
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257 SORT OF THING TO GET IT THAT WAY.
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258 ***************** SNOT NOSE *************************************
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259 DR. BUCK: THIS ISN'T QUITE WHAT YOU ASKED FOR, BUT YOU SEEM TO NOT CARE
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260 ABOUT SECOND HAND REFFERENCES TO CHANGE. IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO SEE THE
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261 WONDER OF NATURE CHANGING THE FORM AND SHAPE OF LIFE, TAKE A LOOK AROUND
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262 YOU. CONSIDER THE LOWLY CATIPILLAR SPENDING HIS LIFE EATING LEAVES AND
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263 THINGS TO BUILD UP A ENERGY STORRAGE TO LAST HIM FOR A FEW WEEKS OF
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264 INACTIVITY. WHEN READY HE BUILDS HIMSELF A COCOON TO HIDE AWAY IN.
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265 THEN SOMETIME LATER A BEAUTIFUL BUTERFLY EMERGES. A CREATURE THAT
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266 IS ONLY VERY VERY REMOTLY SIMULAR TO THE ORIGINAL CATIPILLAR IT WAS.
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267 THE WORLD IS FULL OF TRANSFORMATIONS LIKE THIS IF YOU LOOK. SO IT
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268 WOULD SEEM TO ME THAT IT AT LEAST WOULD INDICATE THE POTENTIAL OF
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269 RADICAL CHANGE BEING ABLE TO TAKE PLACE IN ANY OTHER LIFE FORM.
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270 **************** SNOT NOSE AGAIN ************************************
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271 Christians At War (words:John F Kendrick, tune: Onward, Christian Soldiers)
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272 Onward, Christian Soldiers! Duty's way is plain:
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273 Slay your Christian neighbors, or by them be slain.
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274 Pulpiteers are spouting effervescent swill,
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275 God above is calling you to rob and rape and kill;
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276 All your acts are sanctified by the Lamb on high;
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277 If you love the Holy Ghost, go murder, pray and die.
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278
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279 Onward, Christian soldiers! Rip and tear and smite!
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280 Let the.......
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281 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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282 At this point the bard, seeing that the song had penetrated to the arguing
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283 patrons, took appropriate action. He ran for his life!
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284 Oh well, at last the argument stopped for a while.
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285 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~BARD~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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286 My apoligies to any who are offended by the song above. It has been around for
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287 a LONG time (first print appearance in 1913 IWW songbook!) I felt that it might
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288 get across a point... namely just what this kind of argument can (and has!) led
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289 to in the past.
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290 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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291 To: Snot Nose & Man-in-Gray Re: carcinogenic properties of softdrinks
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292 During the great cyclamate debate in the 60's it came out that SUGAR was
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293 a carcinogen in far LOWER doses than either cyclamates OR saccharin! Why is it
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294 still on the market? Well, it seems that the laws for "natural" ingredients
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295 are different from those for "artificial" ingredients. Cute, huh?
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296 (say, why don't we tailor some bacteria to produce cyclamates? Then they
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297 would be "natural"!)
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298
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299 Dr. Buck: I am curious as to how creationism can predict anything. If we allow
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300 God to take such an active role in the running of the universe-
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301 ANYTHING can happen. Thus, the only way to predict anything would be to find a
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302 way to predict God's actions. Somehow I find the thought ludicrous! (or perhaps
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303 even blasphemous)
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304 As for "an example of a species changing into another" I suggest that you
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305 consider various disease bacteria. EVERY one of the various 'flus is a seperate
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306 and distinct species. And there are records of which flu turned into which
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307 other flu. If you want something "larger", please remember that that also means
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308 more complex. Thus it should be obvious that it would take more genetic changes
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309 (and thus MORE TIME) for noticeable differences to appear.
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310 Most of the people who start attacking evolution from that angle usually start
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311 playing "word games". ie "but those aren't really different species". Also,
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312 there is a tendency to go "show me an intermediate form" & then when one is
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313 found, to ask to see one intermediate between that and one of the previously
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314 mentioned forms! I'm not accussing YOU of this, just trying to clear the air.
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315 Also, on the subject of fossils, please remember that it is an EXTREMELY
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316 rare event when something gets fossilized. Thus, you have to try to work with
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317 what can be found.
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318
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319
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320 Mikey: I see nothing unusual in the presence of a beaver in a residential area.
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321 Remember, we have possums, coons, DEER, & (possibly) BEAR in this area! There
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322 is quite a bit of wildlife in the coast range and a lot of it ranges into the
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323 west hills. It is, after all, possible to go from Washington Park all the way
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324 to the coast without encountering any built up areas (if you don't count roads
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325 or railroad right of way). I had a friend who used to take such hikes
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326 frequently.
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327 __________________________________Leonard______________________________________
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328 ............................................................................
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329 Man in Gray,
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330 On DB you said that "arguments are trading of ignorance, discussions
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331 are trading of knowledge." While I agree with your sentiment, your defini-
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332 tion is not quite correct. An argument, in relation to a discussion, is an
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333 collected series of facts and statements that lead logically to the estab-
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334 lishment of a proposition. Name-calling and such are violations of proper
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335 argumentative tecnique, and if they are included in the course of the argu-
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336 ment, tend to invalidate the position of the speaker. A discussion is a
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337 larger catagory which includes the argument, but also includes any examina-
|
||
338 tion of a subject, even by yourself. In Latin, the word discussion has the
|
||
339 literal meaning of 'to shake apart', while argument comes from 'arguere',
|
||
340 which means 'to prove'.
|
||
341 .......................................................................Micon
|
||
342
|
||
343 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
||
344 Oh, Tarn, you don't seem to have the sense to leave the forest on your
|
||
345 own! I know that I've done much traveling of late, but it is something that
|
||
346 is not to be avoided, it must be done. I'll walk you to the road, my good
|
||
347 friend, and remind you that there are times when one must do for one's self,
|
||
348 and not always rely upon the good graces of others. I have been away from
|
||
349 these parts much recently, and will probably continue to come and go for
|
||
350 awhile. Though I am welcome by you, I feel that there are others who resent
|
||
351 my presence at the Inn, and I am not one to wish to cause them distress.
|
||
352 Because of that, I will come only on occasion, and take as little space as
|
||
353 possible.
|
||
354 I wish to tell you that I had my first opportunity to use the most recent
|
||
355 trick you taught me, and it worked well! I will use it sparingly, though,
|
||
356 and only on my own property. I will insert it proudly in my ever increasing
|
||
357 bag of tricks!
|
||
358 - Emer -
|
||
359 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
||
360
|
||
361 ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
|
||
362 Micon,i was quoting a friend of mine who is a high-school debate champ.
|
||
363 perhapss the term "debate" should be used? oh well,i'll use argument.
|
||
364 to the giver of softdrink knowledge above,LIVING causes cancer.but i would
|
||
365 be interested in the source of the data.
|
||
366 Bard,where can i find a copy of that song? i like it.
|
||
367 this religion discussion/debate/argument is getting a little heavy for my
|
||
368 store of knowledge.it was however very interesting while it lasted,thanks
|
||
369 deborah.
|
||
370 The Man in Gray
|
||
371 ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
|
||
372 ?!?!?!!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
|
||
373 BYTHE WAY MAN IN GREY, ARE YOU IN SOME FASHION ASSOCIATED WITH THE DIAL AN
|
||
374 ATHIEST HOT LINE. YOUR P.S ABOVE WAS ON THE SAME SUBJECT AS THE TIDBIT ON
|
||
375 THE DIAL AN ATHIEST LINE THIS WEEK? JUST WONDERING. I'M A VERY OPEN MIND-
|
||
376 ED INDIVIDUAL AND LOOK TO ALL SOURCES FOR INFO. EVEN ATHIESTS AND EASTERN
|
||
377 IDEAS, THOUGH I AM CONVINCED OTHERWISE. ONE THING I DO FIND IRRITATING
|
||
378 ABOUT SUCH REFERENCES, IS THAT THEY ARE ALWAYS TAKED OUT OF CONTEXT, WITH-
|
||
379 OUT CONSIDERING WHY THEY OCCURED.
|
||
380 ALSO MY REASON FOR BRINGING UP THIS SUBJECT WAS PURELY ACADEMIC. NOT TO
|
||
381 TRY AND DISPROVE EVOLUTION. MORE IT WAS TO SHOW THAT WHEN THE BIBLE
|
||
382 TOUCHES ON SCIENCE IT IS ACURATE. THOUGH IT IS NOT A BOOK ON SCIENCE.
|
||
383 LET'S FIND ANOTHER DEBATABLE TOPIC IN THE FUTURE.
|
||
384 DENISE, WHERE ARE YOU? I FEAR YOU ARE MISSING SOMETHING YOU WOULD ENJOY.
|
||
385 OR ARE YOU THERE LURKING.......AWAITING INVITATIONS TO RETURN?
|
||
386 ?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!DEBORAH?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
|
||
387 P.S. I TOO SEE MUCH SIGNIFICANCE AND TRUTH IN THE POEM ON CHRISTIANS, AND
|
||
388 ALSO REALIZE THAT IT WAS WRITTEN ABOUT BIGGOT OR PSUEDO-CHRISTIANS, WHICH
|
||
389 ENTAILS ABOUT 99.98% OF THEM.
|
||
390 MAN IN GREY: WHAT DO YOU MEAN WHEN YOU SAY THAT IF THERE IS A GOD, ALL RE-
|
||
391 LIGIONS WOULD AGREE? PLEASE EXPLAIN.
|
||
392 ?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
|
||
393 ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
|
||
394 Well, everybody,
|
||
395 I left the inn about 24 hours ago and since then a swamp of questions
|
||
396 has appeared. I will attempt to answer all of them, but if I leave any
|
||
397 unanswered it was an over sight.
|
||
398 First off, adressing the topic of differences in religon, I would like
|
||
399 to say that Christianity is different from all other religons in one respect.
|
||
400 You see, if you like at any major religon, it is an attempt for a man to reach
|
||
401 God. However, if you look at the basis of Cristianity, it is Gods attempt to
|
||
402 come down and reach man.
|
||
403 Secondly, as for radical changes, you can say that all flus are similar.
|
||
404 I DO believe that some forms of life such as dogs have descended from a common
|
||
405 ancestor. However, there is no evidence for other totally different spieces.
|
||
406 In order to convince me, I would have to see the fossils of the transitory
|
||
407 forms.
|
||
408 As for the age of the Earth. Radioactive dating is the biggest bunch
|
||
409 of bull I have ever heard. It assumes that the decay started with none of the
|
||
410 daughter elements present. It also assumes that the rate of decay was constant.
|
||
411 Not to mention the assumtion that none of the parent or daughter elements were
|
||
412 added during decay. I will track down a list of facts supporting a young Earth.
|
||
413 and get them posted soon.
|
||
414 I think that close minded "I believe because God says..." was a joker.
|
||
415 Dr. Buck
|
||
416 ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
|
||
417 Order now:
|
||
418 Get your very own Dr. Buck's primal fart stool. It's easy to use, just
|
||
419 sit on it and let the primal fart go. When you push on the pedal, Whooosh!
|
||
420 The pedal makes a spark and off you go into the wild blue yondor. The perfect
|
||
421 gift for an initiate in the primal fart therepy.
|
||
422 How much would you pay for this stool? Well, I'll sell it to you for not
|
||
423 $600, not $300, but $9.99.
|
||
424 But wait, that's not all you get. If you order now, you will also get your
|
||
425 own Dr. Buck approved crash helmet. Yes, this helmet will protect you from
|
||
426 landing spills after your flying thrills. (frying thrills?)
|
||
427 _____________
|
||
428 To order Dr. Buck's primal fart stool, just call 1-503-230-1041. Please
|
||
429 give waist size when ordering.
|
||
430 ================================================================================
|
||
431 DEBORAH,GREY,ETC,
|
||
432 TO THOSE WHO SEEM TO BELIVE THAT THE CURRENT THEOLOGICAL ARGUMENT IS
|
||
433 POINTLESS; REMEMBER, LOOKING AT OTHERS OPINIONS AND PRESENTING OUR OWN
|
||
434 CAUSES US TO LOOK AT OUR OWN VERY CRITICALLY (PROVIDED OFCOURSE THAT YOU
|
||
435 KEEP AN OPEN MIND). TO ME THIS IS ONE OF THE MAIN TOOLS OF LEARNING.
|
||
436 IS IT YOURS?
|
||
437
|
||
438 EVAN
|
||
439
|
||
440 KEEP TALKING, SOME INTERSTING THINGS ARE BEING DISCUSSED, THAT RARLELY
|
||
441 ARE TALKED ABOUT REASONABLY. I MUST CONGRADULATE THE QUALITY OF THE
|
||
442 PARTICIPANTS OF THIS DISCUSSION. (EXCEPTING THE PERSON WHO FINISHED
|
||
443 THE LAST DISK!)
|
||
444
|
||
445 ==========================================================================
|
||
446
|
||
447 BUCK:
|
||
448 IT CAN BE AND HAS BEEN PROVED THAT IN A 'NEW' ROCK, ONE JUST COOLING
|
||
449 FROM A MOLTEN STATE SUCH AS MAGMA, OR A METAMORPHIC ROCK AFTER
|
||
450 THE METAMORPHIC PROCESSES HAVE CEASED THE RATIO OF RADIOACTIVE OR UNSTABLE
|
||
451 ELEMENTS TO DAUGHTER ELEMENTS IS ALWAYS THE SAME, SO IN RADIOMETRIC DATING
|
||
452 THIS IS ALWAYS KNOWN. AND RADIOMETRIC DATING CAN BE PROVEN REASONABLY
|
||
453 RELIABLE, THE DATE ACHIEVED BY THIS METHOD, ESPECIALLY RECENT ONES (LESS
|
||
454 THAN A COUPLE OF THOUSAND YEARS) CAN BE COLLABORATED BY OTHER MEANS.
|
||
455
|
||
456
|
||
457 EVAN
|
||
458
|
||
459 ============================================================================
|
||
460
|
||
461 It was 9:45 in the Ack Emma, thirty-fifth day of Feistbacch in
|
||
462 the Year of the Leather Bound Book. I'd been assigned traffic detail,
|
||
463 crowd control to be exact, in the xeno section of town. Somebody up
|
||
464 there doesn't like me. His name is Captain Malone. My name's
|
||
465 Greeshnakh. I'm a cop.
|
||
466 I was working the day watch out of Sentient Central when the call
|
||
467 came in. The phone announced that Malone was on the line, so I quickly
|
||
468 sucked in my three soft extensibles and closed all but by two top eyes
|
||
469 like I always do when I talk to Terrans. That left only my two hard
|
||
470 appendages visible to the phone. Those buggers will swear up and down that
|
||
471 they're not prejudiced, but just psxxt even a little bit of green when
|
||
472 one's around and see what happens. Malone always calls me when there's
|
||
473 a job in Xeno section. I steadied by stomaches and keyed the phone.
|
||
474 "Moanin' Greese." he smiled. His eyes didn't track me right. He
|
||
475 had his screen off. "Some Wiz from the Cluster is giving a demo on pulling
|
||
476 moons out of orbit at the Ekks University today. We've been requested
|
||
477 for crowd control. Think you can handle it?
|
||
478 I though about it. The Ekks weren't such bad guys, really. At least
|
||
479 they had slime. No telling what else would be in the neighborhood, though.
|
||
480 "Right on it, Captain." the phone automatically translated by spiracle
|
||
481 chatter into Terran.
|
||
482 Once I'd pulled up to the college campus, I had to be really
|
||
483 careful. The little green pustules were everywhere, and I had to walk
|
||
484 on my three most delicate extensibles to keep from stepping on them.
|
||
485 The University itself was a wonder to behold. The Ekks had taken a
|
||
486 liking to the Terran alphabet, and were using it for their modern
|
||
487 architecture. Huge star marble letters a full two meters tall (gigantic
|
||
488 by Ekks standards) spelled out EKK COLLEGE in the finely mosaic tiled
|
||
489 mall.
|
||
490
|
||
491 ********************* chek in tomorrow........daver*********************
|
||
492
|
||
493 &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&"
|
||
494 DEBORAAH, ET AL:
|
||
495 Ok, one last comment from me, and then I'll leave this be. If you can
|
||
496 find it, please check out ANALOG, November 1982. This is one of the
|
||
497 most complete rebuttals of creationism I have read in quite a while.
|
||
498 Simply, it points out something not often cited; that creationism is
|
||
499 simply not CONSISTANT with all of the other know facts which must be
|
||
500 true for our universe to operate. I will give some brief excerpts, with
|
||
501 credit going to Stephin Goldin, "Creationism Versus the Lightbulb".
|
||
502
|
||
503 "...But let's step outside thier framework for a moment.
|
||
504 After all, ture science is not only internally consistent, but
|
||
505 it must be consistent with all the other sciences as well....
|
||
506 Electricity is such a basic part of modern life that we take it pretty
|
||
507 much for granted...The behavior of electricty is derived from
|
||
508 equations that are part of electro-magnetic theory. We don't know
|
||
509 everything about electromagnetism either, as physicists will gladly
|
||
510 tell you, but the theory's equations correctly predict how electricity
|
||
511 works in real life...We can use the theory to predict how light should
|
||
512 react under certain circumstances...as anyone who has seen a rainbow
|
||
513 can attest...W[through quantum mechanics] we have developed the principles
|
||
514 of spectroscopy, one of the major tools of astronomy...From the theory
|
||
515 of gravitation, we know how massive and how far away from us the sun is...
|
||
516 If the stars ARE other suns, then we know how bright they are because they
|
||
517 generate energy and light according to the same principles that apply
|
||
518 to our sun...we can therefore tell how far away they are. It turns out
|
||
519 to be very far indeed....Wait a minute, back to the electromagnetic
|
||
520 theory, the one that predicts lightbulbs should work. That self-same
|
||
521 theory predicts that light can travel only at finite speed. Yet...
|
||
522 light must have taken billions of years to reach us. At last the point
|
||
523 becomes clear. If, as the creationists claim, the universe is only
|
||
524 10,000 years old, how could light reach us from billions of lightyears
|
||
525 away?...
|
||
526
|
||
527 I know I am inviting some pokes at the holes I have left for brevity,
|
||
528 so please read the article before rebuttal. The points are that if I
|
||
529 were to base my scientific researches on creationist dogma, I could NOT
|
||
530 predict any facet of reality which can be viewed by independant
|
||
531 observers. It is not consistant with the vast body of knowledge and
|
||
532 observations currently in hand, no used to predict any new data.
|
||
533
|
||
534 nuff said.
|
||
535
|
||
536 GENERAL MACAIBO
|
||
537 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!
|
||
538 ??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
|
||
539 General:
|
||
540 Nothing personal, but that argument is very weak. If a divine being wanted
|
||
541 to create other stars, he would also create the light from Earth to the stars.
|
||
542 As a matter of fact, he could have just created the light and that the stars!
|
||
543 (HIGHLY unlikely, though)
|
||
544 Evan:
|
||
545 The same principle applies. A divine being would create rocks with
|
||
546 daughter elements already in place. This would be much better then creating
|
||
547 the rocks with starting ratios.
|
||
548 Dr. Buck
|
||
549 ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
|
||
550 "History does not record anywhere at any time a religion that has any
|
||
551 rational basis. Religion is a crutch for people not strong enough to stand
|
||
552 up to the unknown without help. But, like dandruff, most people do have a
|
||
553 religion and spend time and money on it and seem to derive considerable
|
||
554 pleasure from fiddling with it"-- R.A.Heinlein
|
||
555 Is it my imagination or is the spelling getting better out here?
|
||
556 && The Mad Actor &&
|
||
557 P.S.-- I am a Christian, albeit a strange one. I have dandruff, too.-TMA
|
||
558 --------
|
||
559 To:All
|
||
560 Re:The Discussion
|
||
561
|
||
562 It would seem to me that it would take a pretty rotten diety
|
||
563 to create fake information for us to discover, thusly leading us
|
||
564 in the wrong direction tobase our scientific theories on.
|
||
565
|
||
566 ----Nuff Said...
|
||
567 ????????????????????????????????????????
|
||
568 somebody left the ll at 40 again,oh well
|
||
569 deborah,my rationall is this-if one god
|
||
570 existed then there would only be one
|
||
571 correct bible/word of god/religion.
|
||
572 o.k.`so it's a little slim.
|
||
573 as for american athiests i am not a
|
||
574 member but i might join soon,yes,i got
|
||
575 that little dity from todays tape.
|
||
576 plagerism,i believe it's called,from now
|
||
577 on i'll use my ""'s like i should.
|
||
578 new topic,insanity`plea in the courts.
|
||
579 should we allow it or not? if ya don't
|
||
580 want to discuss that then how about the
|
||
581 quality of todays education?
|
||
582
|
||
583 Nomore then one hour ago i took my
|
||
584 beloved terminal/modem/wires/power
|
||
585 supply and other junk over to a friends
|
||
586 house to show her bwms,the religion
|
||
587 discussion made ler infuriated.she
|
||
588 thought that we were all stupid people
|
||
589 for trying to debate the word of god.
|
||
590 i don't know,maby it was the end of
|
||
591 a 28 day cycle for her.am I speling maby
|
||
592 right,it does'nt look like it.
|
||
593 I have endevered to give to board
|
||
594 one trivial fact a day for your enjoymen
|
||
595 mozart was a start,for today...
|
||
596
|
||
597 beethoven poured cold water over his
|
||
598 head to"stimulate the brain"
|
||
599
|
||
600 your teeth are composed of "modified
|
||
601 papillae of the mucous membranes of your
|
||
602 mouth,heavily impregnated with lime salt
|
||
603 s"
|
||
604 daver,as a published sf author i can
|
||
605
|
||
606 give you a few hints that were given to
|
||
607 me,city locations should make sence,like
|
||
608 "north". give`a better explination of
|
||
609 the size of the cop.use names people can
|
||
610 pronounce,"nicolas john" is one i use.
|
||
611 on the plus side,you did'nt use any tech
|
||
612 talk that a reader might not understand.
|
||
613 you made your protagonist human in some
|
||
614 respects,people cant relate to aliens at
|
||
615 all.it looks like one i'll want to
|
||
616 contribute to.
|
||
617 The Man in Gray
|
||
618 ????????????????????????????????????????
|
||
619 aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
|
||
620
|
||
621 Deborah, you exite me.Your stimulating
|
||
622 conversation keeps me up to the wee hour
|
||
623 please dont leave this system
|
||
624
|
||
625 Your enthralled admirer,
|
||
626
|
||
627 Aqualung
|
||
628
|
||
629 aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
|
||
|
||
> |