385 lines
17 KiB
Plaintext
385 lines
17 KiB
Plaintext
America Online
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APPLE II DEVELOPMENT FORUM CONFERENCE LOG
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October 3, 1989 10:00 pm eastern time
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Topic: Resource Forks and What to do With Them
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Forum Leader: Dave Sugar (AFL Dyfet)
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AFL Scott Have to find more err.... resources..:)
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AFL Dyfet Speaking of resources; Good evening and welcome to the Apple II
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Development
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AFL Dyfet Forum chat. Tonight's topic will be 'resources'; What are they;
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what you can
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AFL Dyfet do with them; etc. I was hoping that, by this time, several new
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products
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AFL Dyfet intended to make life easier with resources on the GS would
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already be out on
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AFL Dyfet the market, but it appears this has yet to happen. In any case,
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we will be
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AFL Dyfet obverving PROTOCOL tonight, which means that if you wish to ask a
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question, you
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AFL Dyfet must enter a '?' on a line by itself, and if you wish to respond
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or comment on
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AFL Dyfet the question currently being asked, you must enter a '!' on a line
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by itself.
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AFL Dyfet I will then call you each in turn to speak. Feel free to get your
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questions
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AFL Dyfet in the queue now, before I fill the rest of the screen :).
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AFL Dyfet Go ahead, Coach, you have the floor now.
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Coach101 With a code resource,
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Coach101 I presume that I write the code, use LinkIIGS to make an
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executable
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Coach101 entity, and then *somehow* get the entire output from LinkIIGS
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into
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Coach101 the resource fork. Is there a utility to do that last step for
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me?
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Coach101 ga
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Coach101 Come on, is that tough a question?
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AFL Dyfet I would suspect you can bind it using the resource compiler.
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AFL Dyfet GA Dave...
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Dave Lyons Sorry, I was away from my kbd for a sec--if you're using the Rez
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compiler (or
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Dave Lyons on the Mac, the RezIIgs tool), you can use a simple directive like
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"load" (I
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Dave Lyons may have the wrong name there) to include any sort of file (OMF is
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fine, but
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Dave Lyons it works for anything) as a particular resource type/id. For
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example,
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Dave Lyons resource rCDevCode(1) load "myfilename"; or something (CDev code
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resource
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Dave Lyons with ID 1). ga
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Coach101 Thanks Dave, I knew it had to be simple I just kept missing it in
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the
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Coach101 manual.... done...
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Dave Lyons (Oops--it's "read", not "load".)
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AFL Dyfet Okay, I believe the next question was from WindRider. GA
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Wind...
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Windrider5 some basic question What types of resources are there? And what
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advantages are
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Windrider5 there for using resources
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AFL Dyfet One advantage of resources is that you can store configuration
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information,
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Dave Lyons !
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AFL Dyfet device drivers, etc. in the same file as your application, and not
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need to
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Coach101 !
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AFL Dyfet use subdirectories. You can copy everything you need for your
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application to
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AFL Dyfet run in a single operation. I see a lot of people wish to comment;
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Dave, GA.
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Dave Lyons Okay...there are as many *types* of
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Dave Lyons resources as you care to invent: the Resource Manager is
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completely general
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A GibberFC (hi all)
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Dave Lyons in that sense. There are a couple dozen "system resource types"
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(they have
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Dave Lyons a standard format, and their types are in the range $8000+).
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Types below
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Dave Lyons $8000 can be used for whatever anybody wants. The currently
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defined system
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Dave Lyons resource types include stuff like strings, control templates,
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control lists,
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Dave Lyons window templates, control defprocs (code), & lots more (they're
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defined in
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Dave Lyons the APDA draft of Toolbox Reference, Volume 3).
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Dave Lyons Advantages:
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Dave Lyons Users (and developers) can potentially use resource editors to
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cusotmize
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Dave Lyons applications (wanna do a French version of your app? Resources
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can make your
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Dave Lyons life easier).
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Dave Lyons The Resource Manager works very closely with the Memory Manager to
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give you
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Dave Lyons stuff like resources that are purgable--if your user has lots of
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RAM, they
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Dave Lyons won't need to do as much disk switching as a user in a low-memory
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environment.
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Dave Lyons I'll stop here & give Coach a chance. ga
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AFL Dyfet Ga Coach...
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Coach101 I was going to comment on the advisability of storing information
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in
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Coach101 a the load units resource fork that is *user* dependent (e.g.,
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configuration
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Coach101 information). In a multi-launch (file server) environment the
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user may
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Coach101 not have write access to the program itself and different users
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may
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Coach101 want different configurations.... ga
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Dave Lyons (Very good point.)
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AFL Dyfet That is a very good point, Coach...
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Dave Lyons :)
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Coach101 No credit here.... Apple specifically mentions it in their
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publications.
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AFL Dyfet Do we have any more comments on this?
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AFL Dyfet Okay, I believe our next question is from Nuzz. You have the
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floor, Nuzz.
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Nuzz What would be the procedure for an app that wanted to replace a
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res. without
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Nuzz having to first load it in and delete it?
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AFL Dyfet Do you mean applications that would modify their own resource
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forks?
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Nuzz Right
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AFL Dyfet GA Dave...
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Dave Lyons Isn't there a RemoveResource call that takes a type and id &
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removes it from
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Dave Lyons the most-recently-opened resource file? (Looking it up....)
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AFL Dyfet I wish I could find and get all my manuals unpacked...
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Dave Lyons Yes, it looks like there is--call
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Nuzz Doesn't RemoveResource require that it be loaded?
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Dave Lyons number $0F1E. Sine the
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Dave Lyons er...SINCE the parameters are a resource type and a resource ID
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(and not a
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Dave Lyons handle), no--I don't believe it requires you to load the resource
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first.
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Nuzz Can you REPLACE a resource without loading it?
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Dave Lyons (The docs say it releases "any memory the resource occupied"; so
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it does
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Nuzz and keep the same Id
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Dave Lyons release the resource if you loaded it without detaching it.)
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Dave Lyons Checking AddResource....
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Dave Lyons Since you get to specify the ID when you add a resource, you can
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just
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Dave Lyons RemoveResource on the existing one and then AddResource with the
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same type
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Dave Lyons and id as the resource you just removed. If this isn't
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"replacing" it, I'm
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Dave Lyons missing the distinction.
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Dave Lyons An alternative
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Dave Lyons approach, if it's easier, would be to SetResourceLoad to false, so
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that
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Dave Lyons the resource is not actually loaded into memory, SetResourceLoad
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back to true,
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Dave Lyons (after LoadResource-ing the one you want, of course), then
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SetHandleSize the
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Dave Lyons handle you got from LoadResource, put whatever data you want in
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that handle,
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Dave Lyons and WriteResource the thing (or MarkResourceChange so that it gets
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written
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Dave Lyons later).
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Nuzz Any chance of a one call thing like _ReplaceResource. Sounds
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easier. GA
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Dave Lyons I don't see
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Dave Lyons how it's much easier than RemoveResource followed by
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AddResource--the only
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Dave Lyons thing it saves you is doing a GetResourceAttr if you don't already
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know the
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Dave Lyons attributes, right?
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Nuzz Sounds good to me.. Done
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Dave Lyons (done)
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AFL Dyfet Okay, I see that our next question is from Parik. GA Parik, you
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have the
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AFL Dyfet floor.
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AFL Dyfet Okay, then I guess Jim will be next :). GA Jim :)
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JimNiemann What other products do people know about? Other than
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JimNiemann TML Pascal II, REZ, and Genesys? ga
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JimNiemann I meant resource supportive products, of course!
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Dave Lyons (Besides the Monitor? :-)
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AFL Dyfet A2GS, you seem to be first, GA :)
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A2GS Never mind, was wondering what he was talking about :)
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AFL Dyfet Okay, GA Doctor Why...
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Doctor Why ByteWorks will have a product early next year. DesignMaster, I
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think!
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AFL Dyfet I believe the people that originally put out Dialog Layout Utility
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will also
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AFL Dyfet have a visual resource editor sometime in the future.
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AFL Dyfet Parik, you wished to comment? GA.
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Parik Dude right, DesignMaster by Chris Haun will be published by ByteWorks,
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its supposed
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Parik Dude to be good * and * cheap! :) Also APW had/has (?) a program
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called Little
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Parik Dude Res which is just a mini resource editor, works good. Dunno if
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they'll put it
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Parik Dude out with apw v2.0. ga
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AFL Dyfet Okay, Dave, I believe your next...ga...
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Dave Lyons Will any of these products be modular, so that people can write
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their own
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Dave Lyons editor modules for application-specific resource types (the way
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you can for
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Dave Lyons ResEdit on the Macintosh)? ga
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AFL Dyfet Interesting point, Dave...Um, I believe Mike is next...GA
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Mike...
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AFL Mike F I believe another Resource Program is Toolbox or something like
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that from Simple Software -- ...
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AFL Mike F it has been announced and advertised but not out yet, from what I
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can tell. GA
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AFL Dyfet Unfortunately, many of the products mentioned are just not
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available at this
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AFL Dyfet time. When I scheduled this chat originally, I had hoped that at
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least a few
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AFL Dyfet of them would have been.
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AFL Dyfet Do we have any more comments on res editors?
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AFL Dyfet Okay, I believe our next question is from A2GS. GA A2...
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A2GS Wasn't coach first?
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AFL Dyfet Oops...Okay. We'll let Coach in, then :)
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A2GS First come, first serve (that's life)
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Coach101 What do "-flag SYSTEM" and "-flag ROM" accomplish for me, please
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go
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Coach101 beyond the verbiage in the APW manual :)
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Coach101 Those are REZ options....
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Dave Lyons (No idea so far.)
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Coach101 Next Q
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AFL Dyfet A very honest answer, if nothing else :)...
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AFL Dyfet Okay, for the moment we will go to A2GS then...GA A2...
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A2GS Are resources discussed thoroughly in TB Ref. III and is it
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available yet in
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A2GS it's finished form (TB III)? GA
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AFL Dyfet GA Dave...
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Dave Lyons A beta draft of TB Ref 3 is currently shipping from APDA. No,
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it's not in its
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Dave Lyons final form yet. Whether resources are discussed "thoroughly" is
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somewhat
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Dave Lyons subjective, I guess--I think it's thorough enough, and you can
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certaily
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Dave Lyons get any questions you have answered here (you may even cause the
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answers to
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Dave Lyons appear in a future version of the book, or in a Technical Note).
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ga
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AFL Dyfet GA Coach.
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Coach101 I have both ToolBox III and the new APW tools documentation (both
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from
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Coach101 APDA and both are shipping), and I would say that between the two
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you
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Coach101 should find enough information to understand and use resources...
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A2GS (Don't use APW, drives me up the wall :)
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Coach101 Be forewarned, Resources are a *meaty* subject, if you really want
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to
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Coach101 get an understanding of them and make *maximum* use of them you
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should
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Coach101 be prepared to invest some time in reading (more than once) the
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books...
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Coach101 done
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AFL Dyfet Well said, Coach! I believe our next question is from Michael.
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GA.
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AFL Mike F Slightly off the subject ... any word when System 5.0.2 will be
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available? GA
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Dave Lyons ! -> Nope.
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AFL Dyfet I have a feeling that Dave cannot comment on that one, even if he
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does know :)
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Dave Lyons ("Soon" is the best I can do...out of my department. I actually
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*don't* know.)
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Coach101 Is it actually 5.0.2 or some other number?
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Dave Lyons It's actually 5.0.2.
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AFL Dyfet Okay, I believe our next question is from JD. GA JD.
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JDavies1 This is way off the subject but... Does anyone know where I can
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get
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JDavies1 Prosel16 (?)?
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JDavies1 I can't find it anywhere and I deal in software
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AFL Dyfet GA Dave...
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Dave Lyons Yes; lots and lots of people know. :-) $60 from Glen Bredon, 521
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State Road,
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Dave Lyons Princeton, NJ (but I can never remember the zip). ga
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AFL Dyfet GA A2GS...
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Coach101 Also carried by a number of advertisers in InCider....
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A2GS Never mind, basically STOLE the words right out of my mouth :)
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A2GS DAVE
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A2GS that is
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Dave Lyons :)
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A2GS :)
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AFA Gary J Stole? :)
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JDavies1 thanks alot.
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A2GS carefully eased the words right from between my teeth
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Coach101 Actually an *off the subject* comment as opposed to a
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question....
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AFL Dyfet Okay, moving along, I believe Coach now has the floor. GA
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Coach...
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Coach101 The technotes and filenotes are now in our library....
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AFA Gary J Yup.
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Coach101 My thanks to those who worked hard to get them there!
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AFL Dyfet Somebody noticed :)
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Coach101 done
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AFA Gary J :)
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AFA Gary J (Took most of the weekend :)
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AFL Dyfet Gary did a very fine job on that :)...Okay, I believe our next
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question is from
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Doctor Why Dave, is Apple working on SCSI backup & restore utilities that
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will recognize
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AFL Dyfet Doc Why. GA Doc.
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Doctor Why the new file type.
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Doctor Why file type = resource forks
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Dave Lyons Sorry--can't comment on future plans or lack thereof. (It's a new
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"storage
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Dave Lyons type", not file type.) ga
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AFL Dyfet Prosel16 has utilities to handle backup and restoration of
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extended files.
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AFL Dyfet Well, I believe it's time to get that question queue filled back
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up :)
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AFL Dyfet GA Gary :)
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AFA Gary J Is there any other reference material avaialble on resource files
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other than
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Doctor Why Okay, I'll be ordering Prosel16. I just think that it's a mistake
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for Apple to
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AFA Gary J the two sources mentioned from APDA (TB III and APW), and the
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Tech Notes?
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Doctor Why supply an operating system that they don't supply the means to BU
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and Restore.
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AFL Dyfet Planning a book, Mike? :)...GA Mike...
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AFA Gary J :)
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AFL Mike F Nah Dave -- at least not yet. But there is an article in Call
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-A.P.P.L.E. quarterly this fall on
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AFL Mike F resources.
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AFL Mike F Done
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AFA Gary J Great. (I think I just got mine in the mail today...
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AFA Gary J ..haven't looked at it yet..) Thanks.
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AFL Mike F (Also has an article on TC by someone married to my wife.)
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AFL Dyfet Okay, GA A2, you have the floor now (too bad, I was kinda hoping
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for a new
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AFL Dyfet book from you, Michael :)
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AFA Gary J heheh
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AFL Mike F Love to do one Dave. Just need a publisher.
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A2GS This is Wayyyyyyy of the beaten path and what we've been talking
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about tonight,
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A2GS but...
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JDavies1 Who's married to your wife? And your not upset?
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AFL Mike F :)
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A2GS anyone know what the story is with this new mag. II Technical,
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missed them at
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A2GS the Fest, Damn GA
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AFL Dyfet GA Michael.
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AFL Mike F II Technical is from Randy Hyde and the HAL Labs people -- they of
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LISA Assembler fame. Just ...
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AFL Mike F grabbed a look at it at the fest but subsribed right on the spot.
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Haven't seen my copy yet but it
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AFL Mike F was already in issue no. 2. I ordered the back ones too. GA
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A2GS I got their first issue and a subscription...just waiting right
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now.
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AFL Dyfet I kinda miss "Assembly Lines" myself.
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AFL Mike F Agree Dave.
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A2GS We need more Mags!!!
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AFA Gary J Yup.
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A2GS Mike you want to start one instead of your book? :)
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AFL Dyfet It sounds like II Technical is trying to go after the old Assembly
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Lines nitche
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AFL Dyfet . GA Mike.
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A2GS More Technical!
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AFL Mike F On the issue of magazines, I assume everyone knows of the
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programming mags from Ariel Publishing --
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A2GS Yup!
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AFL Dyfet Yes, they put out an interesting zine, mostly dealing with
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Merlin.
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AFL Mike F one for Merlin people (Sourceror's Apprentice I believe) on on
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Applesoft (Reboot), one of ZBasic
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AFL Mike F for the II (can't remember the name) and one for ZBasic on some
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other computer Apple makes.
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AFL Mike F Done
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AFL Dyfet You are correct on the titles of the first two, Michael.
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AFA Gary J Anyone have an info/order address for II Technical?
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AFL Dyfet GA A2.
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A2GS Call...
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A2GS (714) 359-8480 for more info, to advertise or to submit articles
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A2GS It's a VERY technical magazine as far as topics go and also VERYYY
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interesting!
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A2GS Well not that Technical...
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AFA Gary J Thanks.
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AFL Dyfet Sounds like just the kind of magazine I want to read :)
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AFL Dyfet GA A2...
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A2GS interested in the highlights of the first issue...or am I getting
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just a weee
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A2GS to much carried away :)
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AFA Gary J I'm interested.
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AFL Dyfet Why don't you start a thread on the subject of good hard core
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technical mags in
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AFL Dyfet one of the forum areas? :)
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AFA Gary J Good idea.
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A2GS sounds good
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AFL Dyfet Maybe 'Forum Business'.
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