369 lines
15 KiB
Plaintext
369 lines
15 KiB
Plaintext
AppleLink
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APPLE II DEVELOPMENT FORUM CONFERENCE LOG
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May 23, 1989 10:00 p.m. Eastern time
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Topic: "Getting Started"
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Forum Leader: Dave Sugar (AFL Dyfet)
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CHRISZX ANYONE- I'm looking for arcade routines in assembly for the IIgs,
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does anyone
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MDW Flyer Hello Folks. Is 'C' for a novice?
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A GibberFC My wife wishes that I never got into this development thingie
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CHRISZX know where I could find some coding?
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HyperRam Whats the faster way to learn Pascal besides college?
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HyperRam fastest I mean.
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AFL Dyfet Good evening, and welcome to the tuesday night Apple
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AFL Dyfet Development forum chat. Tonight's topic is 'getting started'.
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AFL Dyfet We will be using PROTOCOL starting NOW. This means
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MDW Flyer Getting started with 'C'. Anyone?
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AFL Dyfet that if you wish to ask a question, you must enter a '?' on
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AFL Dyfet a line by itself, and if you wish to comment on the question
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AFL Dyfet being asked, you must enter a '!' on a line by itself. I will
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AFL Dyfet call each of you in turn to speak. I believe Chris had the
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AFL Dyfet first question. GA Chris.
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CHRISZX I'm looking for arcade style assembly coding for the IIgs, help!
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AFL Dyfet I take it you are looking for examples?
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CHRISZX So far, nothing but dead ends...
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CHRISZX Yes, Dyfet.
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AFL Dyfet Where have you tried?
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CHRISZX On Alink and writing to software companies
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CHRISZX that end up telling me about copyright laws.....
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AFL Dyfet Most companies would probably consider those 'trade secrets', as
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their
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AFL Dyfet methods may give them an edge on other companies. I know a few
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companies
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AFL Dyfet like Penguin used to sell animation construction tools and
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routines, but
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AFL Dyfet I know of no one selling this kind of a package for the GS so far.
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Does
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AFL Dyfet anyone else have any comments or suggestions?
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AFA Gary J !
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AFL Dyfet GA Gary.
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JeffDavies !
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AFA Gary J I know this isn't EXACTLY what you're looking for, but one of the
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Apple source
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AFA Gary J code samples does interrupt animation (by Jim Mensch). It is in
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our library.
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AFA Gary J Also, a LOT can be learned by disassembling other people's code.
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It takes a
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CHRISZX I have it Gary, but, you know..........
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AFA Gary J lot of work, but you learn a lot in the process.
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AFA Gary J GA
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JeffDavies The Book Apple graphics and arcade game design, by 'The Book
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Company' but..
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AFL Dyfet Okay. GA Jeff.
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JeffDavies wow how was that for timing. what is ':)'
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CHRISZX Thanks for your help guys
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CHRISZX Chirs?
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AFL Dyfet :) is just a smiley face :). I see the next question is from MDW
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flyer.
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AFL Dyfet GA flyer.
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MDW Flyer I've gotten APW C. Reading H. Schildts' Book. And d/l'd various
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comments ALPE
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MDW Flyer Chris you might look at AnimDemo in the library
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MDW Flyer I was wondering if you have any suggestions about getting
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started?
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CHRISZX Thanks MDW, I'll do that...
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AFL Dyfet In terms of books or programs, MDW?
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MDW Flyer Well, both. I've used assembler, but like the structured approach
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of 'C' or
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AFA Parik :)
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MDW Flyer TML's Basic. Even if the latter is buggy under GSOS
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AFL Dyfet Does anyone here wish to recommend a book or program they have
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found to be
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AFL Dyfet useful?
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A GibberFC !
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AFL Dyfet GA Gibber.
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MDW Flyer Has ALPE University looked into 'C' as a topic/course?
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A GibberFC anything with Lichty's name on it... for the //gs
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MDW Flyer Thanks Gibber!
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A GibberFC His latest Lichty and Eyes "programming the Apple //gs in Assembly
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language"
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A GibberFC is Excelent
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A GibberFC ga
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AFL Dyfet Anyone else?
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AFA Parik !
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AFL Dyfet GA Parik.
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AFA Parik Exploring the Apple IIgs by Gary Little is a great book too.
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Morgan Davis and
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AFA Parik Dan Gookins ToolBox Programming is a good replacement to Apple's
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books, althoug
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AFA Parik its not as up-to-date as the updates :) Lichty & Eyes books are
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AWESOME ga
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AFL Dyfet Okay, any more comments?
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AFL Dyfet Okay, the next question is from Windrider. GA.
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Windrider5 Since Dave Lyons has joined DTS I've notice a little less help in
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Let's Discuss
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Windrider5 I am not sure what his offical role at APLE was but I sure hope
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someone
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Windrider5 replaces him
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AFL Dyfet Dave Lyons was a forum 'consultant'. This means he's here to help
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answer
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AFL Dyfet questions. I'm sure once he gets settled in he will be on-line
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more often.
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AFA Parik "was"?
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AFL Dyfet No was :). Sorry about that.
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AFL Dyfet (make that is of course :).
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AFL Dyfet I believe our next question is from Jeff. GA Jeff.
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JeffDavies HyperRam GA I watchin Miss Universe
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HyperRam Me?
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AFL Dyfet Okay. GA HyperRam.
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HyperRam Ok,
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HyperRam whats the best place to learn pascal besides colleges?
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HyperRam [tml pascal too]
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AFA Parik LOL
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HyperRam Is there going to be APLE courses sooon?
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AFL Marty (Nothing does, Gibber :)
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AFL Dyfet Too many flashes :). Um, as to learning Pascal, you might try
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inquiring into
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AFL Dyfet the ALPE class program if they are teaching it. Anyone else have
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a suggestion?
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HyperRam , I sent,
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A GibberFC !
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HyperRam a letter to a user group and never got a reply. :) (hint)
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AFL Dyfet GA Gibber.
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A GibberFC Well... I had to use a lot of books to teach myself languages...
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In college
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AFL Marty !
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A GibberFC I majored in Television Broadcast.... But the Book "OH Pascal" is
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a good one
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AFL Dyfet GA Marty.
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CHRISZX !
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A GibberFC to learn that language
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HyperRam !
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A GibberFC ga
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AFL Marty I think HyperRam may be looking for an alternative to reading
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books...
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A GibberFC !
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AFL Marty some folks (myself included) find it difficult to learn by reading
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only...
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JeffDavies I always keep going back to Programming with pascal, by Mc Graw
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Hill.
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AFL Marty (are we in protocol?)
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AFA Parik ?
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AFL Marty I find it much easier to learn when I have more direct contact
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with the
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AFA Gary J <yes>
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AFL Marty instructor. I'd like to see a University course for subjects
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like
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AFL Marty Beginning Pascal, Assembler, C, etc.
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AFL Marty done
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HyperRam !
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AFL Dyfet Okay, GA Chris.
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CHRISZX Each book teaches something different so.......
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Gferg I am intersted in starting programing on the GS...What language to
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you recomnd
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JeffDavies !
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A GibberFC (my turn yet :)
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AFL Dyfet Okay, I think Chris was done ??. GA Gibber.
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A GibberFC If Applelink PE were to have online class that would be a good
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thing.. the
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A GibberFC only other alternative (instead of books) would be classes at a
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university or
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A GibberFC a community college... both of which can cost some bucks but are
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well worth it.
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A GibberFC ga
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AFL Dyfet Okay. GA Jeff.
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JeffDavies A good structured language like 'C' or Pascal or even A structured
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BASIC is goo
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JeffDavies good to start with then start branching out when you find yourself
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limited
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JeffDavies done
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AFL Dyfet Okay. I believe our next question is from Chaos. GA Chaos.
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Chaos 89 Any news on an Assembly lang. course possibly being offered online
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here?
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Chaos 89 There was talk of one a while back.
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AFL Dyfet Anyone here know about this?
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AFL Marty !
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AFL Dyfet GA Marty.
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AFL Marty The subject seems to have been dropped....
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AFL Marty I don't think the folder is even in ATB anymore.
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AFL Marty What a shame
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AFL Marty done
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AFL Dyfet Okay. I believe our next question is from Gferg. GA Gferg.
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Gferg I am interested in programing the GS ... what languages do you
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recomen ?*)
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A GibberFC !
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AFL Dyfet GA Gibber.
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A GibberFC For the 2.8 machine..... a good assembler. however Orca Pascal
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and C are
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Gferg I currently program on Big blue in structured cobol, basic and
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fortran
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A GibberFC great
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JeffDavies /
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Gferg ga
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AFL Dyfet / ???
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A GibberFC with a transwarp.... anything.... Applesoft ;)
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JeffDavies ? my shift doesn't work
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A GibberFC ga
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AFL Dyfet Okay. Anyone else have a recommendation?
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SteveSand !
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AFL Dyfet GA Steve.
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AFL Marty !
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SteveSand I just started & like TML Pascal -- few bugs and relatively
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easy.
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AFL Dyfet Okay, GA Marty.
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Gferg what makes one language better than another on this machine??
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SteveSand ?
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AFL Marty If anyone here is not yet going to college and will likely take
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AFL Marty the AP exam in computer science, Pascal is probably the one
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language
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AFL Marty to learn. Last time I checked, knowledge of Pascal was assumed
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AFL Marty on that exam.
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AFL Marty done
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AFL Dyfet Interesting note. Okay, I believe the next question is from
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Parik. GA Parik.
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AFA Parik TOTALLY irrelevant, but i've been stuck for the past 1/2 hour...
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!#$*#$!(^@&$%
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AFA Parik Does _UNPACKBYTES work across bank boundries? yes/no/go away will
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suffice ga
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AFL Dyfet I believe this came up once before somewhere, and I believe the
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answer was
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AFL Dyfet that it does not. Anyone else have a comment?
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AFA Gary J Yes, it was in the Let's Discuss area.
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AFA Parik !@(!#*$%* ok, thanks :) done
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A GibberFC lol
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AFL Marty You misspelled that Parik.
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AFL Dyfet Must have been frustrating....Um, the next question is from Jeff.
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GA Jeff.
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AFL Marty There are two #'s in that word. :)
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JeffDavies Does anyone know why when I change the border color from assembly
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the control
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AFA Parik :P
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JeffDavies panel resets to the defult even with the _WriteBParam or with
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changing the
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AFA Parik !
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JeffDavies location directly/
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AFL Dyfet GA Parik.
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JeffDavies done
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AFA Parik The control panel resets all firmware softswitches which are
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stored in battery
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AFA Parik ram. _WRITEBParam won't take effect till reboot I'm pretty sure.
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The easiest
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AFA Parik thing to do is disable control panel entry (lda #$00 / sta $E01D67
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in SHORT M
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AFA Parik mode) or just have a routine that intercepts the control panel
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(vector is in
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AFA Parik the firmware book) ga
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AFL Dyfet Any other comments?
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AFL Dyfet Okay, the next question is from Steve. GA Steve.
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SteveSand I'm not so concerned with the language -many will do- but would
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like to see
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JeffDavies thanks Parik
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SteveSand a class on the GS tools. I am confused about the taskmaster - veen
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though I us
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SteveSand even though I use it. Is anyone else interested? If so.. I will
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start a
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SteveSand fplder somewhere and we can put together a list of names.
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SteveSand done
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AFL Dyfet I think we're losing people to that event :). If you would like
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to start some
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AFL Dyfet sort of class here, perhaps we can setup a time in the conference
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room and a
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AFL Dyfet folder for it.
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AFL Dyfet Is this what you had in mind, Steve?
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SteveSand Yes.. I guess I have been asking for this for a while & if there
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were
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SteveSand more of us it might happen. What event?
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AFL Dyfet I'm not sure, Steve. I only caught a glimps of the tail end of
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the worm. In
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AFL Dyfet any case, if there's enough interest, I would be more than happy
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to help you
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AFL Dyfet setup a conf. time in here to do this. We would have to work out
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a time that
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AFL Dyfet does not conflict with other forums, though.
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A GibberFC (got thrown off again :( )
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SteveSand There was enough interest tonite. Maybe it will fly.
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AFL Dyfet I think a good start would be to put up a folder and see what
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others think.
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A GibberFC Yeah... that is a good idea.... I love the //gs university idea...
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I would love
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SteveSand I'll do that.
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A GibberFC to attend
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A GibberFC that one
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SteveSand me too!!!!!
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AFL Dyfet :)
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A GibberFC I can't wait to get my hands on a real copy of 5.0 with docs and
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something
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A GibberFC to tell me how to use Expressload...... I want it to be finished
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now......
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AFL Dyfet Again, we would need to find a timeslot. Anyone have an Alink
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Update handy?
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A GibberFC ever since seeing it work at
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SteveSand Yes
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AFL Dyfet Gibber: You can, in theory, expressload any application, as long
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as it doesn't
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A GibberFC Afest with a Transwarp.... geez...4.0 and a transwarp isn't where
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I want to be
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AFL Dyfet use some of the fancy loader calls.
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AFA Gary J ..I've got one handy.
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A GibberFC got one what.....A transwarp or system 5.0 hehe
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AFA Gary J (AppleLink Update)
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AFL Dyfet Okay, I can't find mine. Either you or Steve see a handy
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timeslot?
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AFA Gary J Hmmm...
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A GibberFC ever since I moved I haven't gotten my alink update
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A GibberFC whoops.. gots to go... I will see you all later... :)
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AFA Gary J Don't say that, Gibber. I'm probably going to be moving in a
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couple of weeks
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AFA Gary J :)
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AFA Gary J (I still want to get mine.. :)
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AFA Parik :-) doomed Gary, doomed to not recieving those little pamphlets
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AFA Parik (whats on wed @ 10?)
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AFA Parik ack, bye
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AFL Dyfet Doesn't ACM have something then?
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SteveSand Mine only goes to the end of May -- 11 on Wed May 31? There is a
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Mac Dev Conf
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AFL Dyfet We can double time with a Mac conf. We already do now, Mac
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education normally'
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AFA Gary J Wed at 10:00 ... yep.. ACM
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AFL Dyfet has a tuesday at 10p conf.
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SteveSand The only other thing at 11:00 on May 31 is a Science Class.
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AFL Dyfet Hmm...who normally has thur. at 10:00?
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AFA Gary J Hmmm.... My Update shows ACM on both Wed and Thur at 10:00 pm!
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AFL Dyfet Well, we can settle on an exact day and time after the initial
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message. It
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AFL Dyfet should be sometime about 2 weeks for today for the first one so
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that there is
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AFA Gary J It must have been a fluke on the one week I was looking
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for...Wednesday at
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AFA Gary J 10:00 on the next week only shows a Mac communications forum.
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AFL Dyfet enough lead time for worms. I suggest a good start is simply to
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open a folder,
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AFL Dyfet mention the idea, and see both who is interested and what they
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would expect
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AFL Dyfet out of such a class.
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AFL Dyfet We can finalize the details within the next few days from there.
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SteveSand Event Driven Proramming...Taskmaster...handles.... Quickdraw II
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and general
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SteveSand overview of a GS program is what I would like ---- my 2 cents.
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AFL Dyfet Don't tell me, tell them :).
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AFA Gary J Steve, the "Apple IIGS Toolbox" topic area has folders on all of
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those topics.
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AFA Gary J Have you looked in there?
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SteveSand I know; but it is all so specific as not to give an overview.
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AFA Gary J Steve, have you seen the book by Eyes and Lichty?
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AFA Gary J "Programming the Apple IIGS in Assembly Language"?
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AFA Gary J It provides an excellent overview... a sample program step by
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step with
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AFA Gary J explanations as to what's going on.
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SteveSand No, but I will get it -- Does APDA have it?
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AFA Gary J ..uh I think so... I got mine at B.Daltons.
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AFA Gary J Yes, APDA has it.
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SteveSand I appreciate the tip -- I'm doing ok; but, feel a little shakey
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with this
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SteveSand event driven programming.
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AFA Gary J (Page C-17 of current catalog)
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SteveSand Thanks!!!
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AFA Gary J It's an excellent book for that sort of thing.
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AFA Gary J (It deals with the TaskMaster too)
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SteveSand I also appreciate all the specific help I'm getting in the Let's
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Discus Sect.
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AFA Gary J I think it would be a good textbook for the sort of class you are
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talking about
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AFA Gary J , and would provide a good topic for discussion.
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SteveSand Things are going much faster since I went online. One last
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question......
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AFA Gary J (assuming the language you'd want to learn is assembly...)
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