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SUBJECT: BOB OECHSLER TRANSCRIPT FILE: UFO3148
Message-Id: <750310248snx@sound.demon.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1993 20:02:13 +0000
From: philr@sound.demon.co.uk (Phil Randal)
Reply-To: philr@sound.demon.co.uk
Sender: usenet@demon.co.uk
Subject: Bob Oechsler Transcript
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Distribution: world
Lines: 593
X-Mailer: cppnews $Revision: 1.38 $
Here, as promised, is the full transcript of the interview with Bob
Oechsler (pronounced Ecksler) broadcast on BBC Radio 1 on Thursday,
October 7th, 1993, at 10:40pm.
Radio 1 is the non-commercial contemporary music station run by the
British Broadcasting Corporation, and is broadcast on FM throughout the
whole United Kingdom.
The interviewer was the DJ Nicky Campbell. He was informed of Oechsler's
visit to the United Kingdom by Timothy Good, author of the books "Alien
Liason" and "Alien Update".
Oechsler was paid no fee for the interview, and was not promoting any book
or merchandise.
After the interview, Radio 1 was inundated with phone calls from listeners.
Nicky gave out Bob's address for interested people to contact him. As
Radio 1's audience numbers millions, a few thousand alt.alien.visitors
readers might as well have it too:
Bob Oechsler
136 Oakwood Road
Edgewater
Maryland 21037
USA
BTW, don't bother emailing me asking for copies of my tape of the
interview. I only have one tape deck, and even if I had two, I don't
have the time to make copies for everyone.
Now, let the interview proceed - verbatim, except for extraneous ums ahs,
and repetitions. All spellings are British. I shall refrain from adding
my own comments.
NC (Nicky Campbell)> Bob, how long were you with NASA?
BO (Bob Oechsler)> I was with NASA in the mid-seventies, working on several
projects, including the Apollo-Soyuz test project. I worked on the
docking collar that mated the two craft. I also worked on the Inter-
national Ultraviolet Explorer, several deep-space projects, and some
Department of Defence projects.
NC> And in the end, you've left, and you've sort of come out of the UFO
closet, if you like?
BO> Well, I don't know if you'd call it the UFO closet, actually.
NC> Is it not rather embarrassing for your ex-colleagues in the light of
what you've said about alien retrieved craft, and so forth? You've
spilled a few beans that, were I to believe your story, they would
have wanted to keep in the can.
BO> Well, that's partially true, but from what I got, you see, I ended up
getting guidance. I was called in because of my expertise in remotely
operated airborne robotic systems to evaluate some activities that had
been recorded on video films. There was some rather extraordinary
physics. In fact, it appeared as though the objects were violating
the laws of physics as we know them.
NC> Hang on. NASA called you in to analyse these video films?
BO> No, I wasn't called in by NASA, I was called in by an agency in
Washington, D.C., a couple of different agencies, in fact, that
had been addressed. One was the Department of the Navy.
NC> Had you left NASA by this point?
BO> Yes, I had. I was asked to use the facilities of the NASA facility
at Goddard Space Flight Centre to review some of the video films that
had been recorded recently.
NC> By whom?
BO> Actually, the first one had been recorded by a custom builder who
happened to see an object flying around behind the high school behind
his home in this little town of five thousand people down in the north-
west panhandle of Florida, and I had the opportunity to spend a good
bit of time - five months, in fact - doing an analysis of this at the
Goddard Space Flight Centre in Greenbelt, Maryland.
NC> Courtesy of NASA?
BO> Yes. They gave me the operational facilities there to use for the
analysis project.
NC> So they're not greatly embarrassed by the fact that you're looking
into alien life forms and so forth?
BO> Well no, they didn't really know what it was. In fact, they were
probably hoping that I would be able to discover that this was some
kind of a hoax, that somebody had a radio-controlled model, or some-
thing like that.
NC> That's not what you discovered?
BO> No, in fact, an optical physicist with the navy was the one that
really initiated the interest in getting an analysis done, because he
was observing some things that he couldn't quite explain. So I got
involved in the project and, extraordinarily enough, we were able to
determine that there was absolutely no possible way this could have
been a model flying around. This thing was exhibiting capabilities
of extraordinary direction reversals - at low speed, but with no
deceleration or acceleration.
NC> How did NASA react to your findings, your investigations?
BO> They didn't have a reaction. There was never any official reaction.
They were just more or less bystanders and interested in the results.
What we later discovered was that, as a result of that, we later
sought guidance from the highest levels of the intelligence community,
in particular Admiral Bobby Ray Inman, who was the National Security
Agency deputy director at the CIA, a host of other intelligence posts,
and a technologist, and there was a sort of camaraderie just
established from that. He had informed me in a documented recorded
telephone conversation - inadvertently recorded, actually - that the
United States government had possession of extraordinary hardware in
operational condition that was of non-human origin and manufacture.
Of course, the public popular term is UFO.
NC> Have you seen them?
BO> I have indeed.
[The interview breaks for a record - David Bowie's "Loving the Alien".]
NC> We've got to the point in your story - and you're only in the U.K.
on a flying visit, you came on a plane, not a UFO.
BO> Right, we had to leave the disk in the shop. We didn't have time
to change the oil every 55000 miles.
NC> But you're deadly serious. This isn't a wind up, is it? You're
going to come to some of the technology of it later on, and it's
absolutely rivetting. You've seen, you say, retrieved craft. What
was the expression you used, hardware?
BO> Operational hardware, right.
NC> You've seen this? In whose possession was it?
BO> I've seen it in both situations. I've seen it where they were being
piloted and guided by presumably non-human pilots. They clearly were
not remotely operated vehicles.
NC> Have you seen it in US governmental care?
BO> Yes, and I've talked to a number of test pilots who have worked on the
projects and test-flight programmes, worked with what you might call
mechanics or actually physicists who worked on propulsion systems
related to the vehicles and they report some rather extraordinary
findings.
NC> How close did you get to one of these things?
BO> I've been within about two hundred feet. That's about the closest I've
been.
NC> Why no closer to them?
BO> In the case of vehicles that were operated by non-humans, it was
surprising that I was able to get that close, because I certainly
didn't have any control over that situation. And, in the case of
US military...
NC, interrupting> Yes, that's what I was talking about.
BO> ... and intelligence, due to a variety of security and safety
restrictions, really.
NC> Were they extremely guarded about this operational craft, even given
the fact you were an official, in certain ways? Were they not
extremely guarded and nervous that anyone was seeing it, beyond a
chosen few?
BO> Well, again, we do have it on record that these issues are covered
under national secrecy laws. However, there's somewhat of a dichotomy
that exists here. Yes, the technology is highly classified. But the
issue of the vehicles themselves, of the presence of the intelligent
species behind them, is the subject of an indoctrination programme,
especially in the United States. But it's also worldwide, I've found.
Studies have been been conducted, back in the very late fifties - paid
for by NASA, actually - conducted at the Brookings Institution in
Washington, D.C., regarding the implications of a confrontation with
an extraterrestrial culture. Whether or not this information should
be withheld from the public, what the outcome would be.
NC> Yes, because the outcome is fairly shattering. It shatters many
illusions, moral, religious, ethical, the whole bit.
BO> Exactly. In the economic arena is of course what the biggest concern
was.
NC> So, as a corollary to what you're saying, why are they not extra
careful that people like you didn't wander in and have a look, which
you evidently did, and come over and talk about it on radio shows and
television shows, which you evidentially are?
BO> Well, because, in effect, I end up, wittingly or unwittingly, playing
a part in their indoctrination scheme. The idea is, in order to solve
the problem of the chaos created by public disclosure, it was deter-
mined, back in the late sixties, that the solution to avoiding chaos
was a slow, long term indoctrination programme. The intelligence
community got involved in development of films such as "Close
Encounters of the Third Kind", and "E. T.".
NC> So, briefly, what is your role in this. Why are they quite relaxed
about the fact that you're talking like this? You talked about
security regulations. Presumably you're breaching all of these. Why
are they relaxed about it?
BO> Again, it's like I say, there is in fact an indoctrination programme,
and I'm essentially playing a part in that.
NC> You're a drip feed?
BO> You could say that. I mean, the difference would be, you could either
have lunatics running about talking about aliens and extrterrestrial
spacecraft without any basic background knowledge of what they're
talking about and just speculating wildly, or, you could have somebody
who actually knows something about it, or several people who something
about it, to set the record straight, and to provide that information.
NC> Right, lets have some more music...
[Nicky plays Chris de Burgh's "A Spaceman Came Travelling".]
NC> So, you were within two hundred feet of this craft, Bob, which you say
was a retrieved craft in operational order. What did it look like?
BO> Again, I don't know that you could say that it was a retrieved craft.
As far as I'm aware, it just as well could have been given to us. It
certainly wasn't shot down. It could have been provided; maybe there
was some barter arrangement.
NC> A barter arrangement? I'm going to write that down. I'll come back to
that - barter arrangement, given - because that strikes an interesting
note. What did it look like?
BO> Well, it was about a thirty foot diameter disk-shaped craft. It had a
small dome around the centre. There were protruding flanges equidistant
around the outer edge. There was some kind of apparatus hanging down
from the bottom. It was 'floating' above the ground, probably at about
ten feet altitude. A tremendous amount of plasmatic light with various
colours.
NC> Sorry?
BO> Plasma. It's a very, very bright white light. It's caused by inter-
action of a very high electrical voltage field around the disk. In
fact, I was able to learn that the reason why they use circular type
of craft is in order to contain the high-voltage field, so you don't
have a corona discharge.
NC> Sorry?
BO> On ordinary powerlines you might have seen thses round spherical
resistors - no, capacitors - they put on these power lines. That's
to avoid a discharge of electricity that might zap somebody driving
by in a car.
NC> There may well be a lot of astrophysicists listening, but I'm not one
of them. Suffice it to say, this is a highly sophisticated looking
piece of equipment. How do you know it wasn't made here?
BO> Because I was told, for one, plus, I also interviewed an official of
the Canadian government who was actually on board the craft, and
visited with the intelligence that was on board.
NC, after a long pause> He did what!?
BO> You seem stunned. [He chuckles.]
NC> Yes! He did what with the intelligence on board?
BO> Visited with them, communicated, interacted. The individual, I
believe, was taken on board. Probably without being asked, like
teleported.
NC> Did you speak to this individual of the Canadian government, about
his...
BO> Yes I did. I communicated with the individual, and arranged to have
conducted a military polygraph exam.
NC> That's a lie detector?
BO> Yes, indeed.
NC> And what was the result of that?
BO> Well, let me put it this way. The polygraph examiner said at the
beginning when we started on this thing [that] there was absolutely
no way, this individual must be making this up. When we completed
the exam, approximately a week of extraordinary work - just to
construct the proper questioning procedure - the polygraph examiner
came away scrathcing his head, convinced not only was the witness
telling the truth or believed exactly what the witness was saying,
but also that this was not any form of hallucination or fantasy.
NC> The witness, as you call this Canadian gentleman, was the only person
on board?
BO> You can call him a gentleman; I've been very careful to keep neutral
with regard to gender.
NC> Ah, so it was a woman!
BO> [Laughs] Interesting conclusion.
NC, laughing> You may be a scientist, but I know a bit about logic myself.
This is amazing. What did this person - he or she, or it, or whatever
- relay about their 'conversations' or communications, I should say,
with the intelligent life-form?
BO> Well, intriguingly enough, one of two entities that she had a direct
encounter with apparently was dying, was quite ill. They apparently
were conducting operations against their will, indicating that they
were under the control of some other intelligence, shall we say. I
don't know what the other intelligence was, or, at least, I'm not at
liberty to say what the speculation is at this point.
NC> Well, what is the speculation? You can tell us.
BO, sounding very nervous and evasive> I'd prefer not to get into that end
of it. Let's just say that.
NC> Why not? I'm not asking you to, but why not?
BO> Well, I think it would probably be inappropriate because it could in
fact be rather indictable to a particular species of human, shall we
say.
NC> Us, in other words?
BO> Well, not us, but a specific nationality of human was referenced in
this encounter, and it wouldn't be proper or fair to suggest or indict
some nationality. It wouldn't be ethical.
NC> They were being made to do this against their will? And how did they
communicate?
BO> Telepathically. Which is an interesting study in itself. Telepathic
communication is quite intriguing because we've been able to learn
that you can have five different individuals in a room all speaking
different tongues, and a telepathic communication can be transmitted
to all five simultaneously and the translation effect takes place
within the individual. So, ironically enough, you don't have to know
the language to conduct telepathic communication with somebody.
NC> If we could do that, I'd know exactly what you were talking about with
that particular species of human a few minutes ago. What did they
look like?
BO> They were approximately four feet tall. They had self-luminating skin
[which] was a bit on the yellowish-white. The eyes were rather large
[and] black - we don't know if it was actually a coating because of
sensitivity to the eyes, but it looked like these big wraparound sun-
glasses they used to have a couple of decades back.
NC> And they were wearing clothes?
BO> They were wearing black jumpsuit type of clothing, right.
NC> Very natty! Let's have some more music.
[He plays Jimmy Cliff's "Wonderful World".]
NC> [I have] Bob Oechsler, ex-NASA mission specialist with me. Earlier
on, Bob, you were talking about the fact that this craft may well
have been given as some sort of barter arrangement. You've got to
tell me more about this.
BO> Well, the fact that I was able to learn that at one facility at which
I understand - there are several but I've not visited them - there is
housed nine different types of craft. I assume, all in operational
condition, from what I was told, by people who were there. And to
have an operational craft, you would assume it didn't crash somewhere
and was recovered. Presumably it wasn't shot down or you'd expect to
find some sort of damage to it, unless of course some method of
electromagnetic pulse weapon system or something like that might have
been used to disable the craft. And again, you'd expect to have some
sort of damage in the retrieval operation.
NC> So you're maintaining that there's some sort of deal going on between
the US government - or the allied governments, whatever they're called
in this new world order - and some alien life-form. There's some sort
of arrangement?
BO> Well, I asked Admiral Inman that question, if he was aware of any
ongoing dialogue today - I probably should have left off the word
'today', because he indicated not to his knowledge. However, I did
get the impression that from the period of 1979 to 1982 that there
very well could have been some form of dialogue going on with at least
one species. That opens up another Pandora's Box, because the evidence
suggests that there's more than one species involved, just like there's
more than one nationality of human being, or species if you will.
NC> You're talking about more than one Genus?
BO> Apparently so. Even in this one, the creatures that I described just
a while ago, it clearly appears that there are different species of
those. We find different features like, for example, the same typical
species will have a snout nose feature whereas others will have
virtually no facial features - nose, mouth, or anything like that.
NC> What do they want from us?
BO> Well, that again is a very difficult question to answer because that
would presume that we had some knowledge of the alien agenda. We don't
really know what the alien agenda is. We can only derive from analysis
the facts of what we see. Clearly, what is going on, there is, aside
from the fact that there is a genetic engineering programme - and
that's another mix altogether - but apparently they have abducted -
that's a term that's been commonly used - human beings from all walks
of life, with no apparent rhyme or reason to the selection process for
at least four generations now. We've been able to document that they
have been taken, given medical examinations, extract semen from males,
extract eggs from females, fertilise eggs to a half-breed shall we say,
re-implant the egg in the womb. The female, of course, is pregnant,
will carry the foetus for three months, and will be re-abducted and
the foetus extracted. In some cases we've had twins where one of the
twins was extracted just before birth, which is going to be quite a
shock for a mother who has been told she's having twins...
NC> This is going on?
BO> This is going on, absolutely, right now, today, in very significant
numbers.
NC> The government knows about it?
BO> Absolutely.
NC> And they're quite happy about it because some deal's been done?
BO> We've evaluated as many as three thousand cases in North America.
NC> Out there in outer space, there's a whole load of half-breeds going
around - half alien, half human?
BO> We don't really know what the purpose is, anything like that. Maybe
they're trying to seed anothe planet, who knows what? There's been
speculation about that they're on the downside of some sort of
evolutionary curve, they're trying to reinstitute some lost qualities
or something or other. We have also had some rather extraordinary
cases, quite a number, really, involving the study of human emotions,
where they will create a scenario, almost being able to create a
psychosomatic environment. Those who've seen the new features of
"Star Wars - Deep Space Nine" - they have a holodeck where they seem
to be able to simulate a thing - it's almost as if that sort of
environment is created in order to extract or elicit from a human
being a specific emotion. They'll take that individual into a
specific room. We've identified the specific apparatus that they use
to put on the head of the individual. They'll put a similar apparatus
on the head of one of the aliens. They will somehow trigger a reflex
mechanism, if you will, and force the human to relive the experience
mentally, and transpose the whole emotional process to the entity.
And then that one will get up, they'll bring another one in, and
they'll go through this process twelve times for the same incident,
for example. It's kind of remarkable, because one might assume gee,
with this kind of technology you'd think they have the ability to do
a multiple memory dump or something or other, but, that's clearly not,
those aren't the facts of what we're getting in these cases.
NC, taking a deep breath> Blimey! Bob Oechsler is my guest tonight, and
I'm going to have a chat to Bob about the technology of these craft.
Are we using this technology? How do these UFOs work? He's studied
that and has got some interesting things to say. After this from
Joan Armatrading.
[Joan Armatrading's "Drop the Pilot" is played.]
NC> They're retrieved alien craft, landed alien craft, that have been
given to us as part of a barter with another life form. He's talking
about the fact that humans have been taken on these craft. This is an
ex-NASA scientist here. He says it's just a matter of time before all
this information is commonly known, sometime within the next century,
no doubt. But they've got to drip feed it to us, because it's too
much for us all at once. It's certainly too much for me at this time
of night, Bob, but you are a scientist. How do these spacecraft work?
BO> It's a very fascinating science.
NC> Don't be too technical.
BO> I'll do my best. As Carl Sagan often has said, it's not logical for
us to even consider travelling to the nearest star system due to the
concepts of linear travel. It doesn't matter how fast you go. Even
if you approach the speed of light, you'll still have to go from point
A to point B and, whatever that distance in light-years is, it takes
too long for us to consider feasibly going there and coming back.
Well, if you can eliminate some of these concepts - which has
apparently happened with these craft, what they do is, they're able
to manipulate time, which is something we've been very much aware of
for a couple of decades at NASA - that gravity slows down time in
contrast to what we normally think of as sixty seconds a minute, and
so on. There is a constant relative to that except in one place, in
terms of the gravity. In other words, the gravity field is the same
on the surface of the earth but, when you leave the surface of the
earth strange things begin to happen, in terms of time. The fact is
that time speeds up the further away from a gravity influence you get.
Well, these machines create intensified gravitational fields which,
in effect, slow down time as we see it, and are able to cut down on
the amount of time it takes to go from point A to point B. The other
point is that, if they're able to focus a gravity field on another
point, they're able to stretch or pull together points A and B. If
you view space as like a waterbed, if you put a bowling ball in the
middle of the waterbed, the bed kind of wraps up around the ball.
Well, this is very typical of what happens in space. If you create
an intensified gravitational field you warp the distances between the
two. In other words, shortening the distance between A and B, making
the whole concept more feasible. That's in a nutshell, really, how
these things operate is by warping space and time, and getting into
some real interesting astrophysical sciences, it interprets into a
much more feasible method of travel.
NC> So it's not like getting from A to B, the old linear travel? The
technology is kind of anti-matter?
BO> There are some systems that use what is referred to as an anti-matter
reactor, which is a powerful system. It uses super-heavy elements,
well beyond what we have been familiar with traditionally, like
Uranium. They are able to capitalise on, apparently - there is a
low grade B-gravity wave, which is different than the atomic gravity
that holds molecules together - they're able to capitalise off that
and amplify it. They use a series of amplifiers in order to focus it.
It's a lot easier to focus three points than it is to just try and
focus one. Typically, with a telescope, we'll just try to focus one.
What we've learned in deep-space science, like in the SETI project,
is that if you put one antenna here and one in Arracebo, and you split
three around the planet, you can actually focus three different points
and get a much bigger telescopic view. Well, this is very similar to
the types of things they're doing with gravity waves.
NC> So, presumably they've taken some of these elements heavier than
Uranium down here and we've now got them in our hands, and they're
being examined?
BO> That's another interesting phenomenon too, is that we apparently have
about five hundred pounds of the fuel shall we say, the heavy gravity-
stabilised fuel that the systems that are used. How we got that is
remarkable, because it only takes about 223 grammes to operate one of
these things and we don't even know [for] how long. A lot longer than
the average car will last, I'll tell you that.
NC> It's amazing stuff. One last question: Why haven't we utilised any
of this thus far?
BO> Well, actually we have, in quite a number of areas. The development
of the B2 Stealth bomber was one that I'm aware of where an anti-
gravity cavern was developed.
NC> Sure, an impressive machine, but it's hardly a spectacular use of
alien technology. It's not going to take us to another solar system.
So why haven't we been to another solar system if we have known all
this for such a relatively long time?
BO> That would assume that we have a complete understanding of the
technology to go to another star system. The prospects are that we
probably have used it to go to the moon, but, right now it seems that
the focus at this point seems to be to learn how to adapt some of the
alien-derived technologies into applicable human uses, one of which
is to develop air transport that can carry large amounts of weight
over long distances without the fuel requirements that we typically
are confronted with.
NC> We've been to the moon using this technology, you think?
BO> I think that is true, yes.
NC> Moon missions we know about?
BO> That we don't know about.
NC> There have been moon missions that we don't know about?
BO> That's my understanding, yes.
NC> Mmm. Well, we could go on all night, Bob. It's been fascinating
having you in. I know you're flying back tomorrow. Bob Oechsler,
investigations analyst, and a man with a good story to tell, if
nothing else. I think people will have enjoyed listening. Thanks
very much.
BO> Thanks for having me, Nicky.
[Nicky then plays The Police's "Walking on the Moon".]
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Phil Randal Phone: (+44) (0)905 724307
Worcester Internet: philr@sound.demon.co.uk
United Kingdom GreenNet: philr@gn.apc.org
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