2003 lines
92 KiB
Plaintext
2003 lines
92 KiB
Plaintext
SUBJECT: ASSORTED LAZAR FILES FILE: UFO2938
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072/417 11 Nov 89 03:25:00
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From: Michael Corbin
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To: All
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Subj: For Immediate Release
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Attr:
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------------------------------------------------
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November 10, 1989
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ParaNet Information Service (Denver, CO)--This evening saw
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perhaps an unprecedented event in UFOlogy. KLAS-TV in Las Vegas,
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Nevada has been airing a UFO special during the evening news
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which began on Monday dealing with the UFO mystery and cover-up.
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The series, which has been covered by ParaNet, began its coverage
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with a history of UFOs beginning in the late 1940s and moving
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forward through the numerous sighting reports to the cattle
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mutilations, which was aired last evening. As promised at the
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close of last evening's show, George Knapp, a news anchorman for
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Channel 8 in Vegas, stated that a scientific person would be
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featured on tonight's program who has claimed to work at Area 51,
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the government's super-secret test range at Nellis AFB in Nevada.
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Indeed, quite a story was told by Robert Lazar, a physicist who
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claimed that he had worked on a project at Area 51 involving
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flying disks provided by alien intelligences.
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Over the last year, ParaNet has carried stories relating to
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possible involvement with the government in projects of this
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nature at the Nevada test site. Up to now, the stories have been
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of a very speculative nature. Although the material presented by
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Robert Lazar remains unconfirmed, enough information has been
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disclosed that ParaNet's large investigative staff in Nevada has
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started an intensive investigation into this release. It is
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interesting to note that Robert Lazar is an associate of John
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Lear and has been providing this information to Lear over the
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last few months. Lear has appeared on Channel 8 on numerous
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occasions together will Bill Cooper discussing Lear's famous 'ET
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Hypothesis.' According to Lear, Lazar was instrumental in
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providing Lear with locations overlooking the test site which
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would provide a good view of the objects as they flew into the
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night sky. Lear attempted to shoot video of an object as it
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maneuvered through the night sky during last summer, however
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nothing was captured on the tape of a substantive nature. Lear
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also relates that his group was harassed by a Lincoln County
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sheriff following his attempts to take the pictures.
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Below is a transcript of the program that aired this
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evening. All paragraphs out of quotes are the narrator of the
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segment. We were as accurate as possible on the transcription,
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however there are a couple of places where comments were edited
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out due to inability to understand what was being said.
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Further reports will be provided as information becomes
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available.
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=================================================================
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We've been working on the story for some time....UFO
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researchers claim that there is a secret government within our
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government. Now this may be hard to believe coming from the UFO
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perspective, but we have learned that Watergate and the Iran
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Contra scandal that factions within our government can and do
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pursue their own hidden agendas outside of the law; outside the
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control of the Congress or the knowledge of the American people.
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This is exactly the type of operation that we hear about tonight.
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It's a chilling scenario with worldwide implications that may
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have its roots right here [Las Vegas, Nevada].
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Area 51, that mysterious corner of the Nevada Test Site, is
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no longer considered a secret. The fact that secretive things
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go on here isn't evident; even to the Soviets who make daily spy
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flights over the facility to take a peek at what's going on.
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These photos, never before shown in public, are about as close as
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anyone will ever come to seeing what the place looks like again.
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The dry bed at Groom Lake, the corrugated buildings, a three-mile
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long runway and some highly sophisticated radar and detection
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equipment. Its been known by many names over the years --
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Dreamland; The Ranch; The Skunk Works. If ever there was a place
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to test the secret new technology, this is it. And that's
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exactly what has been done here for decades.
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Area 51 is where Francis Gary Powers and the other U-2
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pilots were trained in the 50s. And, where the U-2 itself was
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developed. The SR-71 spy plane that spotted Soviet missiles in
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Cuba in the early 60s were also developed at 51. 51 is where
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Stealth technology was nurtured, where Star Wars devices are
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still tested, and where all manner of CIA [unknown] business has
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been plotted and refined. It's the perfect place for secret
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things, but of course, that's no secret. 51 is ringed by the
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forbidden vastness of the Nevada test site; by the looming Groom
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Mountain and by sparsely populated desert expanses. But the
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people that do live out here have no love lost for the military,
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but they're conservative, patriotic and they mind their own
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business.
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<Continued next message...>
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--- FD 2.00
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* Origin: ParaNet Administration =->Voice 303-232-8303<-= (1:104/428)
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SEEN-BY: 19/19 101/667 104/422 428 108/110 114/37 115/876 120/80
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SEEN-BY: 132/113 133/107 138/111 140/32 141/790 147/66 231/40
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SEEN-BY: 252/18 265/12 268/102 283/630 304/1 3 363/17 382/33
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SEEN-BY: 395/20 1063/304 30163/150 401
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088/417 14 Nov 89 03:22:00
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From: Robert Klinn
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To: All
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Subj: Area 51: The Nevada Test Site's Supersecret UFO Base?
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Attr:
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------------------------------------------------
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With two top local TV stations here in Las Vegas -- KLAS-TV and KTNV-TV --
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carrying deadly serious news reports this week of real alien UFOs POSSIBLY
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being flown out of the supersecret Area 51, that portion of the U.S.
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Government's Nevada Test Site which the Air Force refuses to acknowledge as
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even existing, the situation here appears like The War of the Worlds.
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Disinformation? Reality?
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What next?
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At KTNV-TV, photographer Clay Downey and reporter Glen Meek are tracking down
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the nature of the on-going projects at Area 51. Off-air, Meek says he has
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discovered that Area 51 is comprised of four sections. Of those, he has
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learned the type of activity occurring at two of them. He has been having much
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difficulty learning the type of activity occurring at the other two.
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KTNV will broadcast reports this week at 5:30 p.m. Wed., Thurs, & Fri.
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In a videotape presented by KLAS-TV newsman George Knapp, a UFO performs abrupt
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manuevers over what may be the "S-4" portion of Area 51 at the Test Site.
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Knapp's final report will be broadcast tonight, Tuesday at approximately 6:15
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p.m.
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Knapp's star witness is scientist Robert Lazar, who drew a picture of the craft
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he saw operating at the base.
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Lazar emphatically claims these are alien craft -- not human-made devices.
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Lazar says at least one UFO appeared to have been ruptured by a projectile.
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War of the Worlds?
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Robert B. Klinn
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--- QuickBBS v2.04
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* Origin: -=<ParaNet Alpha(sm)>=- Denver, CO (303)232-6115 (1:104/422)
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SEEN-BY: 19/19 101/667 104/422 428 108/110 114/37 115/876 120/80
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SEEN-BY: 132/113 133/107 138/111 140/32 141/790 147/66 231/40
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SEEN-BY: 252/18 265/12 268/102 283/630 304/1 3 363/17 382/33
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SEEN-BY: 395/20 1063/304 30163/150 401
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097/417 15 Nov 89 01:55:00
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From: Michael Corbin
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To: All
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Subj: Installment on Dreamland continued.
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Attr:
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------------------------------------------------
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November 13, 1989
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ParaNet Information Service (Denver, CO) -- In our
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continuing coverage of the remarkable revelations coming out of
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Las Vegas, Nevada, here is the next installment to the program
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aired on November 13, 1989 by television station KLAS-TV and
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George Knapp.
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=================================================================
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News Anchor persons:
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A former government scientist has alleged that the U.S.
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military is flying recovered UFOs at a secret base in the Nevada
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desert. The allegations about the secret facility near the Groom
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Mountains first surfaced on Eyewitness News on last Friday
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[November 10, 1989].
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Scientist Bob Lazar says that there are at least nine of the
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flying saucers being tested and that they were not built on
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Earth. George Knapp has more on the continuation of our series
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on UFOs.
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Lazar: "Yeah. It was obvious it came from somewhere else, uh,
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other than Earth."
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Scientist Bob Lazar was convinced that the technology he saw
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being tested at a secret base in the Nevada desert is of alien
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origin, and for Lazar the proof is, at least, partially in the
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furniture. One of the nine flying disks he says he saw at the
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base, which was designated S-4, looks exactly like this UFO
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photographed in Europe [Photo of UFO shown]. Lazar called it
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the "sport model."
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Lazar: "I gave everything names -- the top hat one and you know
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the jello mold and, uh, the sport model operated without any
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hitches at all. I mean, it looked new. If I knew what a new
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flying saucer looked like. One of them looked like it was hit
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with some sort of a projectile. It had a large hole in the
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bottom and a large hole in the top with the metal bent out like
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some sort of, you know, large caliber 4 or 5 inch had gone
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through it."
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Even before he saw the sport model operate, Lazar says, he
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suspected that the ship came from somewhere else. The
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realization slapped him in the face the first time he glimpsed
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the inside of the disk.
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Lazar: "I got to look inside and it had really small chairs. I
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think that was the first confirmation I had. That was just a
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shocking thing because everytime before that I was able to label
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it. This is just a little advance that a group of scientists had
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formed and, you know, they're keeping it secret, and yeah, we
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could have built a big disk like that, and yeah, that's no
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problem, and, you know, we could have adapted the use(?) to make
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it fly, but why does it have little furniture inside? [garbled].
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And things began to click together just all too fast."
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A few of the disks had been completely dismantled to find
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out how they worked, Lazar says, but others were fully
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operational. A Japanese TV network created this animated version
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of Lazar's story after his first interview with us aired in May
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[showing video]. Lazar says the dramatization is similar to a
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test flight he witnessed.
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Lazar: "The bottom of it glowed blue and began to hiss like any,
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like high voltage does on a round sphere. It's my impression
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that the reason that they're round and have no sharp edges is to
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contain the high voltage like, uh, if you've seen a high voltage
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system's insulators -- things are round or else you get a corona
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discharge. In either case, it began to hiss as in high voltage
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and it lifted off the ground quietly except for that little hiss
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in the background, and that stopped as soon as it reached about
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20 or 30 feet."
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Lazar says the test of the sport model was a short one --
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that it made only a few moves before setting back down. He
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didn't see who was actually flying the craft, but was very
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impressed, nonetheless.
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Lazar: "Well, there's no action reaction system to it. There's
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no, like in a jet engine, exhaust gas being thrown out -- no
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propeller, no noise. It's just, for all intents and purposes,
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magic."
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To Lazar's knowledge, the flying disks are not being used,
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for say, any flights to Jupiter. He said excessive caution and
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intense secrecy contributed to the plodding pace of the program
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and were a main source of his disenchantment.
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Lazar: "It's just unfair, outright, not to put it in the hands
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of the overall scientific community. There are people much more
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capable of dealing with this information, and by this time would
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have gotten a lot further along than this small select group of
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people working out in the middle of the desert. They don't even
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have the facilities, really, to completely analyze what they're
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dealing with."
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Gene Huff: "Well he was being quiet. If he kept me abreast of
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anything, he kept me abreast of the security checks -- they'd
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randomly drop by his house. They'd threaten his life; they'd
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threaten his wife's life. They had done all that so we really
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didn't converse, I mean, he really was adhering to the program."
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Gene Huff is a Las Vegas real estate appraiser. A regular
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guy who just happens to have a friend in the flying saucer
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business. He learned about Lazar's S-4 experiences only after a
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long period. Lazar is anxious for people to know that he didn't
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just run right out and spill the secrets of the universe, and
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that some things are properly kept confidential.
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Lazar: "I did not believe that this should be a security matter.
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Some of it, sure. But, just the concept that there's definite
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proof, and uh, we even have articles from another world, another
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system, you just can't not tell everyone. A lot of people don't
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believe that. But, I do."
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When he reached what he felt was his bursting point, he took
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Huff and a few others to the edge of the Groom Mountains to see
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the flights for themselves. A total of five witnesses on two
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consecutive weeks managed to dodge security patrols long enough
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to see the strange glowing object lift above the mountain.
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Huff(?): "Uh, it came up above the same mountain. It moved
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around. It did a step move -- it actually went up in the air
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like this [showing details with hands] and it hovered then
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dropped way down then it just floated around and cruised around.
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It starts coming up the mountain range...."
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This home video tape was recorded during one of the trips to
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the Groom Mountains [showing video tape. A lot of
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talking....Object in sight....Mention of brightness of the
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object....].
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Admittedly, the tape proves very little by itself because,
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with the distance and darkness, there are no reference points
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other than the alleged flying disk, but Lazar's information about
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the time and location of the test flight proves correct -- not
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once but twice. That, according to our off-camera interviews
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with each of the other witnesses. Gene Huff describes his second
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sighting:
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Huff: "Through the telescope we could see an elliptical-shaped
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light. You can only get so close even with a telescope to a
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secure facility. Anyway, it came up by us very rapidly. It
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glowed and glows brighter like a star and we almost got the
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feeling that it was going to explode, it glowed so brightly. We
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backed up behind the car then it went down and glowed back up a
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little bit and then very softly glided back over, back where the
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mountains where it came up, hovered for awhile, and then that's
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that....Just like you see in the movies."
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Bob Lazar isn't the only person to claim "inside knowledge"
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of the flying disks at the test site -- he is just the only
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person to say so publicly. We have communicated with several
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people who say they know of the saucer program. A technician in
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a highly sensitive position told us it is "common knowledge among
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those with high security clearances that recovered alien disks
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are stored at the Nevada test site." A Las Vegas professional,
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who once served in the military and was stationed at the test
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site, said he saw a flying disk land outside the boundaries of
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Area 51 -- that it was quickly surrounded by security personnel
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and that he was taken away and debriefed for several hours. A
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man who once worked at Groom Lake as a technician, at our
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request, wrote this letter explaining how he inadvertently walked
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into the wrong hangar and saw what appeared to be a large
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metallic disk under a tarp. It was being examined by men in lab
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coats. And, an airman who worked at Nellis at a radar
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installation says he and his fellow servicemen watched over a
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period of five nights, unusual objects flying over the Groom
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Mountains. He says the radar images indicates the objects zoomed
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into range at speeds of 7,000 miles per hour and then would stop
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on a dime, and that nothing we have is capable of doing that.
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The airman says that when word of his sighting got out, he was
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ordered to turn off his radar sensors for that area and told to
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keep quiet about the matter because it did not happen.
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None of this means that the military is actually flying
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alien spacecraft in the Nevada desert. It could all perhaps be
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explained as some other secret program. Lazar insists that's not
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the case.
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We put the matter to the U.S. Navy, which according to
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Lazar, is running the saucer show. Four different naval offices
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were contacted. All denied having any information in their
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files. The Naval Research Lab said it conducted a thorough
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search but found "zip." Naval Intelligence said much the same
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thing, adding, it is not required to create a file where one
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doesn't exist. A side note: We also requested files on a UFO
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sighting over Tremonton, Utah in 1952. The Navy spent more than
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a thousand hours studying film of that sighting -- a fact that's
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been noted in several publications -- but, for purposes of our
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request, the Navy couldn't find those files either.
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Lazar: "The group that runs this project, whether it really is
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the Navy or they just say that, apparently these people have
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executive power -- they don't report to anyone."
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Tomorrow, more troubling allegations of the military
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potential of alien technology.
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=================================================================
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This file is available on ParaNet as Area51-2.ufo.
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--- FD 2.00
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* Origin: ParaNet Administration =->Voice 303-232-8303<-= (1:104/428)
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SEEN-BY: 19/19 101/667 104/422 428 108/110 114/37 115/876 120/80
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SEEN-BY: 132/113 133/107 138/111 140/32 141/790 147/66 231/40
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SEEN-BY: 252/18 265/12 268/102 283/630 304/1 3 363/17 395/20
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SEEN-BY: 1063/304 30163/150 401
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146/417 20 Nov 89 00:16:00
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From: Michael Corbin
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To: All
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Subj: More on Lazar and Dreamland/Area 51
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Attr:
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------------------------------------------------
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November 14, 1989
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ParaNet Information Service (Denver, CO) -- In our
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continuing coverage of the Riddle of Area 51, here is yet another
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installment of the KLAS-TV program being aired in Las Vegas,
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Nevada featuring Bob Lazar, who has 'come out of the closet' so
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to speak with information regarding government testing of UFOs.
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=================================================================
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Just over this ridge [showing a photo of Area 51], tucked
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inside the test tubes of a hidden government base, the secrets of
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the universe may be unfolding. The area is designated S-4, and
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according to one man who claims to have worked there, S-4 harbors
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scientific achievements that would astonish our deepest
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thinkers. It is technology that, if it exists, could change the
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world, but is allegedly bottled up by military minds.
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Lazar: "It's not an overall government project. It's not
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something that Congress appropriates money for. 2 billion is for
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this; 15 billion for flying saucers; 8 billion for Star Wars. It
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doesn't go like that. I don't believe that they have any
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knowledge of it at all."
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The technology that Bob Lazar says he saw extends far beyond
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flying saucers. An anti-matter reactor allows the spaceships to
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produce their own gravitational fields, he says, such a
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technology, if real, would answer UFO skeptics who argue that
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aliens could never visit Earth because the distances between
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worlds are too great, even at the speed of light.
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Lazar: "Gravity distorts time and space. Just like if you had a
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water bed and put a bowling ball in the middle. It warps it down
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like that -- that's exactly what happens to space. Imagining
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that you were in a spacecraft that could exert a tremendous
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gravitational field by itself you could sit on any particular
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place and turn on the gravity generator and actually warp space
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and time, and fold it. By shutting that off, you'd click back
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and you'd be a tremendous distance from where you were but time
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would not have even moved because you essentially shut it off. I
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mean it is so far fetched, people....it's difficult for people to
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grasp, and as stubborn as the scientific community is they'll
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never buy it, but this is, in fact, that's just what happens."
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Actually, Lazar's explanation is very close to mainstream
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scientific thought, and can be traced directly to Einstein. The
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difference is scientists regard it as theory only. There is much
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that science still doesn't know.
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Dale Etheridge (Scientist): "There are people who say that our
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main problem with that is we don't know what gravity is. It's
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this magical force that acts at a distance. We can describe how
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it behaves -- that's what the law of gravity is -- it's just a
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description of how it behaves, but it says nothing about what
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gravity really is."
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We'll use Etheridge as our barometer of scientific thought.
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He says we cannot produce gravity; that there's no such thing as
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a working anti-matter reactor, and that we have yet to figure out
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a way to get around the speed of light. He also concedes,
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though, such things are possible.
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Etheridge: "Yeah. And really we don't know what's possible as
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there could be other civilizations out there several hundred
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years or so -- a thousand years, even a million years ahead of
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us -- that have found a way to circumvent this. We have no way
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of knowing for sure."
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Lazar: "Well, the thing is when you harness gravity, you harness
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everything. It's the missing piece in physics right now. We
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really know very little about gravity."
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At least that's the way it used to be. Lazar says the
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technology to harness gravity not only exists but is being tested
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at S-4. And, if such technology is beyond human capabilities, it
|
|
must have come from someplace else. It's more than conjecture,
|
|
he says, because he also saw an element that cannot be found on
|
|
the periodic chart. The element, called 115, can be stored in
|
|
lead casings much like this one [showing a lead circular
|
|
container]. Lazar says the government has 500 pounds of it, and
|
|
it cannot be made on earth.
|
|
|
|
Lazar: "It would be almost impossible; well, it is impossible to
|
|
synthesize an element that heavy here on Earth."
|
|
|
|
Interviewer: "At least right now."
|
|
|
|
Lazar: "I don't think that you can ever synthesize it. The
|
|
amount of....you essentially have to assemble it by bombarding it
|
|
with protons if....atom by atom, it would take an infinite amount
|
|
of power and an infinite amount of time. The substance has to
|
|
come from a place where super-heavy elements could have been
|
|
produced naturally.
|
|
|
|
And what sort of place is that?
|
|
|
|
Lazar: "Next to a much larger sun where there would be greater
|
|
mass. Maybe a binary star system -- a super-nova -- somewhere
|
|
where there is just a bigger release of energy to synthesize
|
|
these things naturally. It has to be a naturally occurring
|
|
element."
|
|
|
|
115 is the fuel for the anti-matter reactors, he says. By
|
|
bombarding 115 anti-matter is produced. A kilo of anti-matter
|
|
could produce the energy equivalent of 46 ten-megaton hydrogen
|
|
bombs, and comparing the energy potential of anti-matter to, say,
|
|
the Hoover Dam would be like comparing planets to grains of sand.
|
|
115 could also make one heck of a bomb.
|
|
|
|
Lazar: "We're talking about hundreds and hundreds of megatons
|
|
off a small piece of it. It sounds incredible, but total
|
|
conversion of matter to energy would release that amount of
|
|
power. And it isn't that difficult to take....get the energy out
|
|
of it. So it's not something you'd ever want to fall anyone's
|
|
hands."
|
|
|
|
The dangers associated with 115 and anti-matter may be the
|
|
reason Lazar was hired to work at S-4. There was an accident, he
|
|
says, back in April 1987. An accident that was passed off as an
|
|
unannounced nuclear test.
|
|
|
|
Lazar: "Some people got killed. I was told flat out I was one
|
|
of the people that were to replace these guys."
|
|
|
|
Is this why the government might be keeping the whole matter
|
|
a secret? Because of the military potential of alien technology?
|
|
Lazar says he believes the Soviet Union was once part of our
|
|
research on the flying disks, but that the U.S. kicked the
|
|
Soviets out after making some sort of discovery. He also
|
|
believes the program at S-4 is operated with funds allocated to
|
|
Star Wars research, but says he can't prove it. Some UFO
|
|
researchers suspect the government is test flying alien craft so
|
|
that it can one day master the technology and claim it was made
|
|
in the good old U.S.A., thus obscuring the possibility of alien
|
|
visitations.
|
|
|
|
Stanton T. Friedman: "I think they have the duty to inform us.
|
|
At least to the bare bones of what's going on. I don't want
|
|
technological stuff put out on the table. I mean, I worked on
|
|
classified projects for 15 years, and I don't think we need
|
|
another weapon's delivery system. But I think the government
|
|
does have the responsibility to release information that, indeed,
|
|
the planet is being visited. Probably it should be done in
|
|
conjunction with the Soviets."
|
|
|
|
Lazar: "I don't think that it will get to that level. They're
|
|
not going to have a fleet of them and fly them around and....I
|
|
don't think you need to do that. If you're looking at them from
|
|
a weapons point of view, you're looking at an incredibly powerful
|
|
device. You only need one to operate. You don't ever need to
|
|
come public with it. You may want to learn more about it should
|
|
it ever break which is....might be what they're doing. Uh...."
|
|
|
|
Interviewer: "They've got one...."
|
|
|
|
Lazar: "Oh, they've got a few. Yeah."
|
|
|
|
Lazar is the first to admit that his story is tough to
|
|
swallow. He submitted to polygraph exams that opened up
|
|
sensitive parts of his personal life, and fully expects to be
|
|
ridiculed or perhaps punished for his revelations. His desire to
|
|
explain what really happened at S-4 took us to Layne Keck, a
|
|
licensed experienced hypnotherapist who quietly and privately
|
|
tried to help Lazar remember details of the many briefing papers
|
|
he says he read.
|
|
|
|
Keck: "I have no clue as to what we were getting to, and he
|
|
started saying that there were pictures of what I thought was
|
|
desks on the wall. Well as it turned out, it was disks that he
|
|
was referring to. And, at that moment, I realized we were into
|
|
something that was pretty heavy."
|
|
|
|
Keck does not exaggerate his claims for hypnosis. He
|
|
regards it as a useful tool for uncovering some lost memory. He
|
|
says people are quite capable of lying under hypnosis, but says
|
|
the technique can be of help in determining truth. What's his
|
|
opinion of Lazar's truthfulness?
|
|
|
|
Keck: "It tells me that his subconscious mind believes totally
|
|
all of these things."
|
|
|
|
Lazar has long suspected that his government employers used
|
|
some sort of mind control technique to prevent him from
|
|
disclosing too much about S-4. While he says he has vivid
|
|
conscious memories of the saucers and other technology there were
|
|
other memories, that even now, remained locked, which is why he
|
|
sought out Keck in the first place. Keck is convinced that
|
|
someone really did mess with Lazar's head.
|
|
|
|
Keck: "Also they used primitive fear in threatening those in his
|
|
environment if he did bring this information forth. Also, it
|
|
appears that maybe there were some chemicals used."
|
|
|
|
Lazar: "Nah, I'm not going to change anyone's mind. That not my
|
|
intention. I'm just relaying the experience. The job that I
|
|
went through. It is a fantastic thing. It's a fantastic story.
|
|
I can't take people there to show them what was going on, and uh,
|
|
you know, I don't expect anyone to believe it."
|
|
|
|
What if he is right? What if aliens are here? How would
|
|
this change our view of the world? Our most fundamental beliefs,
|
|
which is religion? We'll know more on that tomorrow.
|
|
|
|
=================================================================
|
|
|
|
--- FD 2.00
|
|
* Origin: ParaNet Administration =->Voice 303-232-8303<-= (1:104/428)
|
|
SEEN-BY: 19/19 101/667 104/422 428 108/110 114/37 115/876 120/80
|
|
SEEN-BY: 132/113 133/107 138/111 140/32 141/790 147/66 231/40
|
|
SEEN-BY: 252/18 265/12 268/102 283/630 304/1 3 363/17 371/10
|
|
SEEN-BY: 1063/304 30163/22 150 401
|
|
|
|
|
|
159/417 21 Nov 89 22:38:00
|
|
From: Robert Klinn
|
|
To: Bryon Smith
|
|
Subj: Re: Area 51: The Nevada Test Site's Supersecret Ufo Base?
|
|
Attr:
|
|
------------------------------------------------
|
|
The time for the KLAS-TV (Channel 8), Las Vegas, report is Saturday, November
|
|
25, 1989, 8:00 p.m. to 10:00 p.m. The program is titled, "UFOs: The
|
|
Evidence." Producer George Knapp says it will include the substance as well as
|
|
updates of material recently broadcast as the nine-part series, "UFOs: The
|
|
Best Evidence." (Incidentally, each of those nine parts was approximately 15
|
|
minutes, not one hour.)
|
|
Knapp also says that while he is personally interested in more UFO material
|
|
about Area 51, there is no more budget at his station to pursue it. This
|
|
contrasts with his on-air statement last week at the end of the ninth segment
|
|
of the series, to the effect that the Area 51/S-4/Robert Lazar/recovered alien
|
|
vehicles investigation is continuing; also earlier in the series, he had said
|
|
that this was only the beginning, that the investigation is "by no means" over.
|
|
--- QuickBBS v2.04
|
|
* Origin: -=<ParaNet Alpha(sm)>=- Denver, CO (303)232-6115 (1:104/422)
|
|
SEEN-BY: 19/19 101/667 104/422 428 108/110 114/37 115/876 120/80
|
|
SEEN-BY: 132/113 133/107 138/111 140/32 141/790 147/66 231/40
|
|
SEEN-BY: 252/18 265/12 268/102 283/630 304/1 3 363/17 371/10
|
|
SEEN-BY: 1063/304 30163/22 150 401
|
|
|
|
|
|
166/417 22 Nov 89 19:41:00
|
|
From: Robert Klinn
|
|
To: All
|
|
Subj: Robert Lazar on KVEG-AM
|
|
Attr:
|
|
------------------------------------------------
|
|
Theoretical physicist Robert Lazar and friend Las Vegas realtor Gene Huff --
|
|
in-studio guests on "Billy Goodman's Happening" live talk show, KVEG 840-AM
|
|
Radio, 10:00 p.m. 11/21/89 until 1:00 a.m. 11/22/89 -- answered questions for
|
|
three hours.
|
|
--- QuickBBS v2.04
|
|
* Origin: -=<ParaNet Alpha(sm)>=- Denver, CO (303)232-6115 (1:104/422)
|
|
SEEN-BY: 19/19 101/667 104/422 428 108/110 114/37 115/876 120/80
|
|
SEEN-BY: 132/113 133/107 138/111 140/32 141/790 147/66 231/40
|
|
SEEN-BY: 252/18 265/12 268/102 283/630 304/1 3 363/17 371/10
|
|
SEEN-BY: 1063/304 3607/20 30163/22 150 401
|
|
|
|
|
|
168/417 22 Nov 89 20:55:00
|
|
From: Michael Corbin
|
|
To: All
|
|
Subj: Update: Area 51
|
|
Attr:
|
|
------------------------------------------------
|
|
CONTRIBUTED BY: Robert B. Klinn, ParaNet Director of
|
|
Investigations/Research
|
|
========================================================
|
|
(C) Copyright 1989 ParaNet Information Service
|
|
========================================================
|
|
Theoretical physicist Robert Lazar and his friend, Las Vegas realtor, Gene
|
|
Huff -- in-studio guests on "Billy Goodman's Happening" live talk
|
|
show, KVEG 840-AM Radio, 10:00 p.m. 11/21/89 until 1:00 a.m.
|
|
11/22/89 -- answered questions for three hours.
|
|
|
|
These notes were compiled from 10:20 p.m., thus missing 20 minutes
|
|
(10:00 - 10:20 p.m.) of the three-hour program.
|
|
|
|
Lazar says he is tired.
|
|
|
|
1. Lazar's Purpose In Going On-Air:
|
|
Although Lazar's main stated purpose in appearing on the broadcast is to
|
|
protect himself, caller Bill Cooper says one of Lazar's motives is
|
|
anger -- previously expressed privately to Cooper -- that billions of
|
|
dollars are needlessly wasted in the normal U.S. sectors by those without
|
|
access to this alien technology. Lazar agrees.
|
|
|
|
Lazar says another reason for his appearing is to correct incorrect
|
|
information he had heard on previous broadcasts.
|
|
|
|
Billy Goodman says Lazar's, Bill Cooper's, and John Lear's lives are on
|
|
the line and that Lazar's best protection is the media, which is keeping
|
|
Lazar alive.
|
|
|
|
Lazar hopes "other people out there" working at S-4 will loosen up, come
|
|
forward, and join with him to present their information as one, as a
|
|
group. He doesn't want to be "the lone ranger."
|
|
|
|
Congressional amnesty -- suggested by a caller -- would be nice, says
|
|
Lazar, but merely offers freedom from prosecution. By coming forward,
|
|
he concedes, the other S-4 workers have everything to lose and nothing
|
|
to gain.
|
|
|
|
But Huff says there has to be a moral guideline where national security
|
|
has to hang in the balance and that the reporting of the existence of
|
|
alien spaceships is where you draw the line.
|
|
|
|
Caller Bill Cooper says there is "a higher value" that those at S-4
|
|
should consider as a reason for coming forward to join Lazar.
|
|
|
|
But Lazar makes a point of distinguishing his whole view of the UFO
|
|
situation from that of John Lear or Bill Cooper.
|
|
|
|
2. Verification of Lazar's Background:
|
|
Lazar says he worked at S-4 -- a "restrained military environment"
|
|
in Nevada -- from 12/88 to 4/89.
|
|
|
|
In response to callers who want independently to check up on Lazar,
|
|
he says his "colorful" background has already been checked by George
|
|
Knapp of KLAS-TV, who had traveled to Los Alamos Laboratories and
|
|
had spoken to former Lazar colleagues, who confirmed he really had
|
|
worked there -- in spite of Los Alamos itself denying the fact of
|
|
Lazar's employment with them. (Knapp's UFO broadcast displayed a
|
|
page from a 1982 Los Alamos Labs internal phone book, listing Robert
|
|
Lazar.)
|
|
|
|
Caller Bill Cooper, who says he has talked to Lazar for over a year,
|
|
says that by talking to persons at Lawrence Livermore Laboratory and at
|
|
another facility, he and associates have confirmed Lazar's previous
|
|
work in physics at the places Lazar specified. Lazar replied he was not
|
|
aware of this checking done by Cooper.
|
|
|
|
Responding to an "investigator" caller wanting Lazar to give him private
|
|
info in order to check him out, Lazar says Lazar himself once took a
|
|
correspondence course to be a private "investigator."
|
|
|
|
Lazar says he has 25 people each wanting independently to check him out,
|
|
but he will not allow that.
|
|
|
|
Although Lazar admits he was paid by check, he refuses to discuss anything
|
|
about the check stubs.
|
|
|
|
<Continued next message...>
|
|
|
|
--- FD 2.00
|
|
* Origin: ParaNet Administration =->Voice 303-232-8303<-= (1:104/428)
|
|
SEEN-BY: 19/19 101/667 104/422 428 108/110 114/37 115/876 120/80
|
|
SEEN-BY: 132/113 133/107 138/111 140/32 141/790 147/66 231/40
|
|
SEEN-BY: 252/18 265/12 268/102 283/630 304/1 3 363/17 371/10
|
|
SEEN-BY: 382/33 1063/304 3607/20 30163/22 150 401
|
|
|
|
|
|
169/417 22 Nov 89 20:55:00
|
|
From: Michael Corbin
|
|
To: Michael Corbin
|
|
Subj: Update: Area 51
|
|
Attr:
|
|
------------------------------------------------
|
|
<...Continued from previous message>
|
|
|
|
3. Lazar's Clearance Level:
|
|
He says neither REECO (Reynolds Electrical and Engineering Co., Inc.) nor
|
|
EG&G -- each a well-known U.S. Department of Energy Test Site
|
|
contractor -- has people at S-4, that those persons' clearances are at
|
|
most Q-Clearances, while his own clearance is "38 levels above Q-Clearance."
|
|
The closest to S-4 that REECO or EG&G people physically get, he says,
|
|
is Area 51.
|
|
|
|
4. Threats Made to Lazar/Lazar Shot At?
|
|
When Goodman refers to Lazar's telling him before the broadcast that
|
|
Lazar had been shot at, Lazar says he doesn't want to talk about it.
|
|
|
|
Lazar says he was called to go back to work but officially refused
|
|
because he didn't like the idea of returning to that isolated place
|
|
in the desert where they could do what they wanted to him.
|
|
However, he says his clearance has not been revoked.
|
|
|
|
Lazar says the executive powers at S-4 have run amok and there are no
|
|
checks and balances. Congress, he says, has no knowledge of all this.
|
|
Lazar says there are no lengths to which the military will not go to
|
|
conceal this information.
|
|
|
|
5. Mind Control Suspicions:
|
|
He contacted hypnotherapist Layne Keck of Serenus Clinical Hypnosis in
|
|
Las Vegas because there were a couple of days where Lazar remembered
|
|
only going out in a plane and coming back, but nothing in between.
|
|
He suspected mind control had been performed on him.
|
|
|
|
Lazar purposely selected Serenus because it had nothing to do with UFOs.
|
|
[A Las Vegas Yellow Pages ad says:
|
|
Serenus Clinical Hypnosis
|
|
Helen Baucum
|
|
30 years Experience
|
|
"Pin-Point" Method
|
|
Children Our Specialty
|
|
Weight Control, Stuttering, Bed Wetting, Nervous Tensions, Smoking,
|
|
Drinking, Memory Retention
|
|
384-4420
|
|
1833 W. Charleston (across from S. Nevada Memorial Hosp.)]
|
|
|
|
Under hypnosis, Lazar recalled intense drilling, threatening actions
|
|
taken against him, and his drinking of "pine," which his hypnotherapist
|
|
said was similar to the "Orion [sp?] Method" of regimented hypnosis used
|
|
by the military.
|
|
|
|
Per Huff, Lazar was given drugs and hypnosis by his employers -- not so
|
|
he would forget what he was working on, but so -- by their imprinting
|
|
his subconscious -- he would be afraid to talk.
|
|
|
|
Per Huff, after first telling Lazar his phone was tapped, the military
|
|
later threatened him because, having monitored his phone, they knew he
|
|
was planning to release information about the alien craft. Huff says
|
|
the military were amazed that the drugs and hypnosis had not worked.
|
|
|
|
Although he is afraid, Lazar hopes they won't come after him now since he
|
|
has already talked.
|
|
|
|
6. Location of the Saucers:
|
|
Lazar says the nine saucers are not at the supersecret Area 51
|
|
(Groom Lake) of the U.S. government's Nevada Test Site, but at S-4 --
|
|
10 miles south of Area 51. The disks are only at this one place.
|
|
However, to go to work, Lazar flew (by plane) to Groom Lake, waited a
|
|
short time at a cafe, then got on a bus [with blacked-out windows,
|
|
per Lazar's Knapp-series statements].
|
|
|
|
Lazar says he knows someone who drills tunnels at the Test Site, but
|
|
no mention is made that this individual also works at S-4.
|
|
|
|
7. Bad Aliens Killed S-4 Workers:
|
|
Lazar says the aliens are not benevolent.
|
|
|
|
Some humans were killed in a conflict after a U.S. military
|
|
intelligence power play, after which point a previously ongoing
|
|
information exchange ended.
|
|
|
|
Huff says Lazar earlier told him -- and Lazar agrees he had said this --
|
|
that this exchange of information occurred between the aliens and
|
|
human scientists/human security personnel [at S-4?].
|
|
|
|
But although the aliens had allowed themselves to be under constant
|
|
human guard, the aliens had insisted there be no bullets in the guns
|
|
worn by the security people. [Bullets may have been a symbol covering
|
|
all loaded weapons.]
|
|
|
|
The security people ignored that demand, and they all died from head
|
|
wounds -- which left no evidence of how they had died.
|
|
|
|
The aliens even killed the scientists they were teaching.
|
|
|
|
[On Knapp's broadcast last week, Lazar said he was told he was one of
|
|
the replacements:
|
|
George Knapp:
|
|
The dangers associated with 115 [the alien element] and anti-matter may
|
|
be the reason Lazar was hired to work at S-4. There was an accident,
|
|
he says, back in April 1987, an accident that was passed off as an
|
|
unannounced nuclear test.
|
|
|
|
Robert Lazar:
|
|
Some people got killed. I was told flat out I was one of the people
|
|
that were to replace these guys.]
|
|
|
|
Responding to a caller, Lazar says talking about aliens is NOT a touchy
|
|
subject for him. Aliens exist, he says.
|
|
[Lear, in an earlier On the Record KLAS-TV broadcast, says Lazar saw
|
|
aliens.]
|
|
|
|
|
|
<Continued next message...>
|
|
|
|
--- FD 2.00
|
|
* Origin: ParaNet Administration =->Voice 303-232-8303<-= (1:104/428)
|
|
SEEN-BY: 19/19 101/667 104/422 428 108/110 114/37 115/876 120/80
|
|
SEEN-BY: 132/113 133/107 138/111 140/32 141/790 147/66 231/40
|
|
SEEN-BY: 252/18 265/12 268/102 283/630 304/1 3 363/17 371/10
|
|
SEEN-BY: 382/33 1063/304 3607/20 30163/22 150 401
|
|
|
|
|
|
170/417 22 Nov 89 20:56:00
|
|
From: Michael Corbin
|
|
To: Michael Corbin
|
|
Subj: Update: Area 51
|
|
Attr:
|
|
------------------------------------------------
|
|
<...Continued from previous message>
|
|
|
|
8. Time of Saucer Test Flights:
|
|
The tests of the saucers at S-4 are Wednesday nights.
|
|
Lazar says he was fired because he showed people where and when these
|
|
tests were performed.
|
|
|
|
9. Who Pilots the Test Flights?
|
|
Lazar says the experimental UFO flights at S-4 are flown either by
|
|
remote control or by human pilots -- not by the aliens.
|
|
|
|
10. Origin of the Saucers at S-4:
|
|
The alien vehicles Lazar saw up close in hangars come from
|
|
"another world: "the fourth planet out from Zeta Reticulum II [sp?],
|
|
a binary system." [Same as on Betty Hill's map?]
|
|
|
|
11. Description of the Saucers:
|
|
He says he touched one of the nine UFOs and even stood in its doorway.
|
|
|
|
He says the saucers mostly appeared "like new" -- one of them looking
|
|
like the Billy Meier saucer.
|
|
[On George Knapp's recent series "UFOs: The Best Evidence" (KLAS-TV,
|
|
Las Vegas), Lazar says one of the saucers "looked like it was hit
|
|
with some sort of a projectile. It had a large hole in the bottom and
|
|
a large hole in the top with the metal bent out like some sort of,
|
|
you know, large caliber 4- or 5-inch had gone through it."]
|
|
|
|
The inside of one craft appears made of wax and then cooled off,
|
|
all like a cast or mold of one thing with no rough edges.
|
|
|
|
Inside were small chairs, one or one and one-half feet, as though
|
|
made for little kids.
|
|
(Compare with George Knapp's new Roswell witness who said on Knapp's
|
|
nine-segment broadcast that a Roswell funeral home worker had told him
|
|
the military had purchased all of the "baby or youth caskets" in stock
|
|
for the purpose of holding the Roswell aliens.)
|
|
|
|
12. Nine S-4 Saucers Extraterrestrial -- Not Earthly:
|
|
The nine disks he saw up close -- including the one he worked on --
|
|
were not earthly and were definitely extraterrestrial.
|
|
|
|
Lazar can't say whether or not the other disks he saw at a distance
|
|
during testing [seen on video presented in George Knapp's broadcasts]
|
|
are man-made or extraterrestrial.
|
|
|
|
13. Physics of the Saucers at S-4:
|
|
Lazar says the vehicle attaches itself to a distorted portion of
|
|
space-time and returns with the distortion. It's a new physics.
|
|
The vehicles brought a space-time warp with them.
|
|
|
|
Lazar says the propulsion technology should properly remain
|
|
classified, since everything there is looked at from a weapons
|
|
point of view. A lot is directly applicable to weapons systems, and he
|
|
has no intention of releasing it, he says.
|
|
|
|
But he says the craft uses gravity as a lens and the power source is
|
|
an anti-matter reactor.
|
|
|
|
Two Modes of Travel for Saucers at S-4:
|
|
1) When traveling around the surface of the planet, the vehicles balance
|
|
on a gravity wave or ride a wave like a cork on the ocean. In this
|
|
mode they are unstable and are affected by the weather.
|
|
|
|
2) For space travel, they use gravity generators. But if they fly
|
|
around the surface of Earth using this mode, they may flip over, a
|
|
phenomenon Lazar says has frequently been observed in past sightings
|
|
in the published UFO literature.
|
|
|
|
Two gravities: A & B.
|
|
Gravity A works on an atomic scale whose interaction is small and has
|
|
to do with fuel -- the alien Element 115 used for the disks.
|
|
|
|
Gravity B works on a macro scale.
|
|
|
|
The gravitational field is OUT OF PHASE with [unknown ?] and is like
|
|
a wave generator. It is LONGITUDINAL generation -- not spherical, as
|
|
a caller suggested.
|
|
|
|
14. Project Aurora:
|
|
"Aurora," says Lazar, distinguishing it from any UFOs, is the
|
|
replacement for the SR-71 plane. It uses a three-mile runway and
|
|
makes a sound like continuous explosions. It has speeds up to Mach 10.
|
|
|
|
15. No Alien Cattle Mutilations?
|
|
As far as HE knows, Lazar says, there is no alien UFO tie-in with
|
|
cattle mutilations.
|
|
|
|
16. Few Abductees?
|
|
More persons claim to be abductees than have actually been abducted,
|
|
suggests Lazar.
|
|
|
|
17. No Blue Diamond Entry Way for Saucers:
|
|
Notwithstanding UFO watchers congregating at Blue Diamond, Lazar says
|
|
there is only a gravity anomaly around Blue Diamond, not an entry way
|
|
for saucers into our universe.
|
|
|
|
18. Other Physics Comments By Lazar:
|
|
Time travel:
|
|
GRAVITY affects time. Moving FORWARD in time is "a breeze": All you
|
|
need do is get close to a gravitational field.
|
|
Moving back in time MIGHT also be possible.
|
|
|
|
Some physicists today, says Lazar, invoke superstring theories to simply
|
|
add another dimension to the universe whenever they can't explain something.
|
|
|
|
Referring to laser fusion experiments as "stupid," Lazar refers to a
|
|
location where they have been conducted.
|
|
|
|
Lazar also speaks of a process of squeezing plutonium.
|
|
|
|
In response to a caller's question, Lazar says M-42 is a galaxy.
|
|
|
|
19. Lazar says George Knapp's two-hour program on KLAS-TV,
|
|
Channel 8 in Las Vegas, this Saturday, 11/25/89, 8:00 p.m. to 10:00 p.m.,
|
|
will contain "much more information" than Knapp's recent nine-part,
|
|
two-hour UFO broadcasts last week.
|
|
|
|
=================================================================
|
|
|
|
This is contained in a file called 1122LACO.UFO in the Library.
|
|
|
|
--- FD 2.00
|
|
* Origin: ParaNet Administration =->Voice 303-232-8303<-= (1:104/428)
|
|
SEEN-BY: 19/19 101/667 104/422 428 108/110 114/37 115/876 120/80
|
|
SEEN-BY: 132/113 133/107 138/111 140/32 141/790 147/66 231/40
|
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|
|
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|
|
|
|
|
|
181/417 24 Nov 89 21:29:41
|
|
From: Cyro Lord
|
|
To: All
|
|
Subj: Antimatter Drives and Area 51
|
|
Attr:
|
|
------------------------------------------------
|
|
From: cyrill@scicom.AlphaCDC.COM (Cyro Lord)
|
|
Date: 24 Nov 89 20:44:28 GMT
|
|
Organization: ALPHA Comm. Dev. Corp., Aurora, Co.
|
|
Message-ID: <2261@scicom.AlphaCDC.COM>
|
|
Newsgroups: info.paranet
|
|
|
|
|
|
>From: macleod@drivax.UUCP (MacLeod)
|
|
In article <265@oasis.mrcu> paj@mrcu (Paul Johnson) writes:
|
|
|
|
:A couple of months ago I read Robert Forward's book "Mirror Matter" in
|
|
:which he suggests that the practical use of antimatter is now
|
|
:possible. Are his ideas impractical? If not, what is being done
|
|
:about them?
|
|
|
|
Glad you asked about antimatter.
|
|
|
|
According to a series of reports on two Las Vegas television stations
|
|
(there is a two-hour special coming on 11-25 for those in the LV area)
|
|
one Robert Lazar, formerly employed by the government at the mysterious
|
|
Area 51, says that the US government has 500 pounds of element 115,
|
|
which somehow produces antimatter when irradiated.
|
|
|
|
This fuel is used to drive waveguide-type gravity amplifiers which
|
|
are the FTL drive components of nine alien spacecraft stored in hangars
|
|
out at Area 51 (the supersecret testing grounds also known as "Dreamland"
|
|
in the middle of the Nellis AFB bombing range about 65 miles northeast of
|
|
Las Vegas). From his brief description of how the drives operate, they
|
|
seem to create local black-hole strength gravity gradients which slow down
|
|
time and cause a space-fold quickly traversible by the spacecraft.
|
|
|
|
Lazar says he was hired to continue covert research into these spacecraft
|
|
and their engineering infrastructure after a former team of scientists
|
|
had screwed the pooch with a batch of element 115, forcing the AEC to
|
|
hurridly announce an "unscheduled" atomic test at Dreamland.
|
|
|
|
Don't flame me, call KLAS-TV in Vegas if you're curious. They will be
|
|
selling copies of the 2-hour special, due to the outpouring of interest
|
|
in it - stimulated by word of mouth and news propagated by ParaNet.
|
|
For some odd reason the national media have not paid any attention...
|
|
|
|
You can also get on the ParaNet mailing list by sending a note to:
|
|
scicom!infopara
|
|
Michael Sloan MacLeod (amdahl!drivax!macleod)
|
|
(This article is from the 'misc.headlines' newsgroup of USENET. If this
|
|
is a repost, please excuse the repost. -Cyro)
|
|
|
|
--
|
|
<---------------------------++++++++++++++++++----------------------------->
|
|
Cyro Lord Alpha Comm. Dev. Corp. - DOMAIN cyrill@scicom.alphacdc.com
|
|
UUCP {ncar,nbires,boulder,isis}!scicom!cyrill
|
|
Corn can't expect Justice from a court of chickens. (African Proverb)
|
|
|
|
--- ConfMail V4.00
|
|
* Origin: Paranet - The world's most important computer network (1:30163/150)
|
|
SEEN-BY: 19/19 101/667 104/422 428 108/110 114/37 115/876 120/80
|
|
SEEN-BY: 132/113 133/107 138/111 140/32 141/790 147/66 231/40
|
|
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|
|
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|
|
|
|
|
|
191/417 25 Nov 89 22:25:00
|
|
From: Don Allen
|
|
To: Jim Speiser
|
|
Subj: Re: Newest Release..
|
|
Attr:
|
|
------------------------------------------------
|
|
Jim- ....Great approach, Don! I wish more people would do that. But when you
|
|
hand it out.. @ YES I DID! I did mention that it was unconfirmed. I may have
|
|
an open mind,but it ain't so open that my brains fall out! Fact is,one of
|
|
the people that I handed the releases to is a Naval Commander (reservist). He
|
|
was real interested,but didn't say much. I was particularly amused when he
|
|
asked that if anything else came out that he would like to see it.. Jim-
|
|
WHERE'S DA BEEF???? ....... VERY good question Jim....The LEFT side of my
|
|
brain is asking the same thing,however the RIGHT side is leaning heavily
|
|
towards considering it as more than true. Lazar's claims sure *seem* more than
|
|
credible... Sounds confusing,I know..but I keep the balance by continuing to
|
|
look for the "outpoints" of Lazar's story..things I'm mulling over:
|
|
|
|
Release-
|
|
"In response to callers who want independently to check up on Lazar,
|
|
he says his "colorful" background has already been checked by George
|
|
Knapp of KLAS-TV, who had traveled to Los Alamos Laboratories and
|
|
had spoken to former Lazar colleagues, who confirmed he really had
|
|
worked there -- in spite of Los Alamos itself denying the fact of
|
|
Lazar's employment with them. (Knapp's UFO broadcast displayed a
|
|
page from a 1982 Los Alamos Labs internal phone book, listing Robert
|
|
Lazar.)
|
|
|
|
@ Thats SOUNDS plausible..but how do we actually *know* that Knapp
|
|
checked up on him? Is there any documentation that Knapp can actually
|
|
SHOW (read-> Hard copy) that Lazar has worked the places he's claimed
|
|
to?
|
|
|
|
Release-
|
|
Caller Bill Cooper, who says he has talked to Lazar for over a year,
|
|
says that by talking to persons at Lawrence Livermore Laboratory and at another
|
|
facility, he and associates have confirmed Lazar's previous
|
|
work in physics at the places Lazar specified. Lazar replied he was not
|
|
aware of this checking done by Cooper.
|
|
|
|
@ Which Bill Cooper is this? Is this THE Bill Cooper who was (to put it
|
|
politely) kicked off Paranet for leaving inflammatory statements to
|
|
others? And if so,what credibility do we (users,Paranet) assign to
|
|
him? Are HIS "facts" checkable? Have they been in the past?
|
|
|
|
Release-
|
|
Lazar says he has 25 people each wanting independently to check him out, but
|
|
he will not allow that.
|
|
|
|
@ I can understand that. But how about a panel of 5 reputable people?
|
|
Certainly Dr Stanton Friedman should be one of the panel..
|
|
|
|
Release-
|
|
He says neither REECO (Reynolds Electrical and Engineering Co., Inc.) nor EG&G
|
|
-- each a well-known U.S. Department of Energy Test Site
|
|
contractor -- has people at S-4, that those persons' clearances are at
|
|
most Q-Clearances, while his own clearance is "38 levels above Q-Clearance."
|
|
The closest to S-4 that REECO or EG&G people physically...
|
|
|
|
@ Whew..How is anyone supposed to verify that? Maybe,just maybe the others that
|
|
worked with Lazar will come forth and support his story.
|
|
--- QuickBBS v2.04
|
|
* Origin: Gallifrey - ParaNet Nu(sm) - Orlando, Florida (407)273-9104
|
|
SEEN-BY: 19/19 101/667 104/422 428 114/37 115/876 120/80 132/113
|
|
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|
|
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|
|
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|
|
|
|
|
|
194/417 26 Nov 89 15:07:00
|
|
From: Michael Corbin
|
|
To: John H. Chalmers Jr.
|
|
Subj: 115,Etc.
|
|
Attr:
|
|
------------------------------------------------
|
|
> (2) Element 115: I don't know any reason why 115
|
|
> would be useful in creating
|
|
> an antigravity field or creating antimattter, except
|
|
> possibly as an energy
|
|
> source in some sort of fission reactor. There is a
|
|
> predicted quantum mechanical
|
|
> "Island of Stability" around atomic numbers 112-116, but
|
|
> more recent
|
|
> calculations suggest that none of these elements would be
|
|
> stable enough to be
|
|
> isolated in macroscopic amounts. In contrast, only a few
|
|
> years ago some
|
|
> physicists thought that these elements might have half-
|
|
> lives in the millions or
|
|
> billions of years.
|
|
Thank you for bringing this up. I was hoping that some of our physics readers
|
|
would jump on this. Could you go further into the explanation about the
|
|
instability of the elements between 112 and 116? Furthermore, Lazar claims
|
|
that the vessel uses that in combination with a wave guide which, in his
|
|
diagram, is shown protruding from the top part of the reactor and protracting
|
|
to the top of the vessel with an antenna of a sort where it terminates. At the
|
|
bottom of the vessel is where the gravity amplifier is located.
|
|
|
|
Also, what are tachyons and how could they figure into this scenario. Is it
|
|
true that gravity could travel twice the speed of light?
|
|
|
|
> Antimatter is made today in small amounts; beams of
|
|
> positrons and antiprotons
|
|
> are used in particle accelerators. Neutral anti-hydrogen
|
|
> (positrons orbiting
|
|
> antiprotons) would be hard to store, but certainly
|
|
> synthesizable. It would be a
|
|
> great power source when it mutually annihilated with normal
|
|
> matter.
|
|
How could this work in propulsion?
|
|
|
|
Based upon what has been said thus far by Lazar, could you comment on your
|
|
feelings about his credibility as a physicist and his theories regarding the
|
|
overall implication of this.
|
|
|
|
Thanks for your time and contribution to this discussion.
|
|
|
|
Michael Corbin
|
|
|
|
--- FD 2.00
|
|
* Origin: ParaNet Administration =->Voice 303-232-8303<-= (1:104/428)
|
|
SEEN-BY: 19/19 101/667 104/422 428 114/37 115/876 120/80 132/113
|
|
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|
|
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|
|
SEEN-BY: 1063/304 3607/20 30163/3 22 150 401
|
|
|
|
|
|
198/417 27 Nov 89 04:28:00
|
|
From: Robert Klinn
|
|
To: All
|
|
Subj: S-4 Worker Backs Up Lazar's Claims
|
|
Attr:
|
|
------------------------------------------------
|
|
Six "Scared-To-Death" S-4 Workers Reportedly Meet Outside the Nevada Test Site
|
|
at Lathrop Wells to Unite and Join Lazar's Expose of Alien Saucers
|
|
On KVEG-AM Radio in Las Vegas, on The Billy Goodman Happening, 11/24/89, 10:00
|
|
p.m. to 1:00 a.m., with Robert Lazar on the line, another caller introduces
|
|
himself as "a colleague in Lazar's department."
|
|
Calling himself "MW" for Mercury Worker [Mercury is the military town inside
|
|
the Test Site], he distinguishes his work -- "hands-on" -- from Lazar's. MW
|
|
says he is a construction worker, installing and constructing.
|
|
He says he and others like him work in S-4 -- especially underground -- in deep
|
|
sections.
|
|
"We all know a lot."
|
|
"Someone had to install the hangars."
|
|
"There is more than tunnels -- everything you can imagine -- cause we did
|
|
everything."
|
|
He says people are now meeting in small groups to talk about backing up Lazar.
|
|
There was a meeting of six workers the night of 11/24/89, he says, to discuss
|
|
whether or not they should publicly say what they saw.
|
|
The five others are scared to death, he says. He himself sounds scared on the
|
|
telephone.
|
|
They are trying to get it where it will be safe for them to join Lazar, he
|
|
says.
|
|
The MW's are "putting something together to join you."
|
|
There are two more MW workers supporting you, he says.
|
|
"We got together at Lathrop Wells [a small town close to the southwest end of
|
|
the Nevada Test Site] and said we got to do something."
|
|
"Only two out of the six are willing to do something."
|
|
"The guys are for you."
|
|
Although encouraged, Lazar points out there's a ten-year jail term for them if
|
|
they talk.
|
|
--- QuickBBS v2.04
|
|
* Origin: -=<ParaNet Alpha(sm)>=- Denver, CO (303)232-6115 (1:104/422)
|
|
SEEN-BY: 19/19 101/667 104/422 428 114/37 115/876 120/80 132/113
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|
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|
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|
|
SEEN-BY: 1063/304 3607/20 30163/3 22 150 401
|
|
|
|
|
|
228/417 28 Nov 89 19:19:44
|
|
From: John H. Chalmers Jr.
|
|
To: All
|
|
Subj: Reply to Mike Corbin
|
|
Attr:
|
|
------------------------------------------------
|
|
From: chalmers@violet.berkeley.edu (John H. Chalmers Jr.)
|
|
Date: 28 Nov 89 02:47:24 GMT
|
|
Message-ID: <1510@taos.AlphaCDC.COM>
|
|
Newsgroups: info.paranet
|
|
|
|
Mike: Based on what I have read on ParaNet, I can't take Lazar's physics very
|
|
seriously. I suspect that a professional physicist would feel that I am
|
|
understating the situation. I'm a biologist, not a quantum mechanic so most of
|
|
what I know is from secondary sources like textbooks, Scientific American, New
|
|
Scientist, The Sciences, or Stephen Hawking's recent best seller. Physics
|
|
isn't
|
|
my specialty, but I'll try to answer your questions.
|
|
Now if somebody were to offer me a piece of purported alien tissue or a
|
|
culture
|
|
of an ET microbe, I think I'd know how to authenticate it or how to find people
|
|
who could.
|
|
Elements decay by three principal routes, alpha emission, spontaneous
|
|
fission
|
|
and beta decay. The three controlling forces, the Electromagnetic,the Strong
|
|
Nuclear and the Weak Nuclear, are well understood with theory agreeing with
|
|
experiment to nine or ten decimal places in many cases. The computational
|
|
magnitude of systems as complex as heavy elements precludes exact calculations
|
|
even on supercomputers, but the best approximations suggest that elements of
|
|
atomic number around 114 are more stable than any nearby because the nucleons
|
|
(protons and neutrons) form closed or nearly closed shells. This phenomenon is
|
|
analogous to the chemical inertness of helium, neon and argon because their
|
|
electrons form closed shells (outside the nucleus) and there is little tendency
|
|
to arrange them in other configurations so that they could form bonds to other
|
|
atoms and make compounds.
|
|
However, this stability is not absolute and atoms decay spontaneously
|
|
with
|
|
half-lives (the time for 50% to change) ranging from more than 10 to the 33
|
|
years for Hydrogen to about 10-23 seconds for some extremely short lived
|
|
isotopes decaying by the Strong Force. Elements with half lives of weeks or
|
|
months can be isolated in weighable amounts though doing so is difficult and
|
|
dangerous, but isotopes with shorter half-lives can only be identified by
|
|
their
|
|
radioactive decay products. Only a few atoms of Element 109 have been made so
|
|
far, but the energies of the alpha particles emitted along its decay chain made
|
|
identification unambiguous. It's half-life is somewhere between a millisecond
|
|
and a microsecond.
|
|
Elements 110 and 111 are expected to be even less stable, so experimenters hope
|
|
to jump into the Stability region where half-lives are calculated to be longer.
|
|
|
|
Longer might mean 10-6 seconds or it might mean minutes or seconds. I don't
|
|
know what the latest predictions are.
|
|
The only way we have to make such heavy nuclei is accelerate atoms of
|
|
medium
|
|
weight elements such as calcium, carbon, etc. and smash them into heavy atoms
|
|
such as uranium. It takes a lot of energy to overcome the electromagnetic
|
|
repulsion to get the nuclei close enough so that the very short range (10-13
|
|
cm)
|
|
Strong Force can bind the compound nucleus together. If the atoms have too
|
|
little energy, they won't fuse, but if they have too much, they won't stay
|
|
together. The new nucleus is only marginally stable at best and will fission
|
|
if it has too much energy. Another problem is that the new nucleus may not
|
|
have
|
|
enough neutrons to be stable. If so, it will undergo beta decay as well.
|
|
If any elements around 114 or higher can be made they will be
|
|
important
|
|
confirmation of the standard model. They will also have interesting chemistry
|
|
since they will have more electrons than any know elements and some of these
|
|
electrons will be in g orbitals with somewhat different properties from those
|
|
in
|
|
d and f orbitals.
|
|
Tachyons are hypothetical particles with negative or imaginary rest
|
|
mass and
|
|
always travel faster than light. They have never been observed and no one knows
|
|
how to search for them. Since they travel faster than light, their
|
|
interactions
|
|
with normal matter would conflict with relativity. Gregory Benford, a
|
|
physicist
|
|
and award winning SF author, has written a serious paper about a "Tachyonic
|
|
Anti-Telephone" which would allow one to place a call to the past. Needless
|
|
to
|
|
say, this would violate causality as we understand it.
|
|
Invoking tachyons to explain some unknown effect is committing the
|
|
fallacy
|
|
known as "Ignotus per ignotum," using one unknown to explain another. If and
|
|
when tachyons are discovered, and assuming they have the requisite properties,
|
|
then they may be used to explain unusual events.
|
|
Now to antimatter: I didn't mean to imply that particle accelerators
|
|
bombard
|
|
anti-protons with positrons. High energy electrons collide with positrons and
|
|
protons with antiprotons to produce exotic particles such as the W and Z mesons
|
|
(the field quanta of the weak force).
|
|
if anti-Hydrogen and normal Hydrogen come into contact, the positrons
|
|
and the
|
|
electrons will mutually annihilate to generate two gamma rays of .51 Mev. The
|
|
antiprotons and protons of the nuclei will also annihilate, but they do so in a
|
|
more complex fashion which produces a lot of intermediate particles. The end
|
|
result is the conversion of the mass of both the normal and the anti-matter to
|
|
energy according to Einstein's equation, E= mc2 (E=energy, m=totalmass, c=speed
|
|
of light).
|
|
The resulting gamma rays could be reflected off a heavy shield and used
|
|
for
|
|
propulsion as a high energy photonic drive. Such as system seems to be the
|
|
only
|
|
feasible energy source for interstellar flight according to the articles I've
|
|
seen.
|
|
Small amounts of antimatter could be made if anybody wanted to. For
|
|
powering
|
|
interstellar spacecraft travelling at relativistic velocities, thousands or
|
|
millions of tons will be required, alas.
|
|
The energy released in ordinary fusion or fission reactions is only a
|
|
small
|
|
fraction of this energy and comes from the binding energies of the nuclei:
|
|
fission and fusion are the nuclear analogs of fermentation, while
|
|
matter-antimatter annihilation is analogous to terminal oxidation. The nuclear
|
|
energies are about a million times larger than the chemical energies, however,
|
|
and this is why terrestrial organisms don't/can't use nuclear power in their
|
|
metabolism.
|
|
The yet undiscovered field particle of the gravitational force, the
|
|
fourth of
|
|
the known forces, is the graviton. It would travel at the speed of light. I
|
|
don't know of any justification for the notion that gravitational effects
|
|
propagate at 2*c.
|
|
Although gravitational radiation has not been observed directly,
|
|
certain binary
|
|
star systems are losing energy at the rate calculated for gravitational
|
|
radiation, so physicists are reasonable confident about the standard model.
|
|
Gravitational radiation antennas with sufficient sensitivity are being
|
|
constructed, so direct observation could occur soon.
|
|
Wave guides are conductive tubes which direct electromagnetic waves
|
|
(radio
|
|
waves, light, etc). I have no idea if a gravitational wave guide or amplifier
|
|
is
|
|
even theoretically possible. The people to ask are gravitational theorists
|
|
such
|
|
as Kip Thorne, John Archibald Wheeler or Robert Forward (who also writes SF).
|
|
Forward has designed some hypothetical anti-gravity devices based on
|
|
standard
|
|
physics. One involves passing the mass of a neutron star though a toroidal
|
|
coil
|
|
the size of a football field in a millisecond to neutralize the earth's gravity
|
|
field in the center by generating the gravitational analog of the magnetic
|
|
field. The other methods are even less practical.
|
|
The problem is that gravity is 10 +43 times weaker than the Strong
|
|
Force and
|
|
thus hard to study in the laboratory. One wishes to manipulate masses of at
|
|
least planetary size. Also, the gravitational field is always attractive and a
|
|
function of the geometry of space-time
|
|
i hope all of this wordage answers your questions. These are
|
|
fascinating areas
|
|
and one can go on and on.
|
|
--John
|
|
|
|
--- ConfMail V4.00
|
|
* Origin: Paranet - The world's most important computer network (1:30163/150)
|
|
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|
|
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|
|
|
|
|
|
251/417 29 Nov 89 18:45:28
|
|
From: Usenet News
|
|
To: All
|
|
Subj: Lazar and his Amazing Saucers
|
|
Attr:
|
|
------------------------------------------------
|
|
Date: 29 Nov 89 20:47:15 GMT
|
|
Message-ID: <1519@taos.AlphaCDC.COM>
|
|
Newsgroups: info.paranet
|
|
|
|
Hello, paranet friends,
|
|
|
|
I have been reading the newsletter from paranet for some time now.
|
|
This is my first posting.
|
|
|
|
+I just had an interesting thought...if you had been sitting on the secret
|
|
+of S-4 and dreamland for a long while, and had instructions to release the
|
|
+information to the public only if it would not cause a crisis, what better
|
|
+time to stage-leak the real story, as most of Eastern Europe and the Soviet
|
|
+Union call off the cold war? Perhaps what Reagan was telling Gorbachev
|
|
+in their summit conferences is that we'll all hang separately if we don't
|
|
+hang together.
|
|
+
|
|
+More paranoia from,
|
|
+
|
|
+Michael Sloan MacLeod (amdahl!drivax!macleod)
|
|
|
|
Regarding Lazar, I just wonder about the fact that we are on the eve
|
|
of a summit of great significance to the entire world. As much as
|
|
we would all like to believe this intriguing tale (since so many
|
|
questions would be answered), I have to think that our government
|
|
has a powerful motivation at the moment for promoting this kind of
|
|
idea.
|
|
|
|
Given the credulity of Soviets on this subject, how likely is it
|
|
that the Soviet intelligence community is going crazy right now
|
|
trying to verify this story before the summit? Is this all
|
|
designed to throw Gorbachev off balance?
|
|
|
|
If our government tried to announce such a thing (supposing it is
|
|
false) they would be innundated with requests for demonstrations
|
|
and explanations, which would ruin the ruse. But the region where
|
|
these events are alleged to have occurred would be under constant
|
|
scrutiny by Soviet agents, given the history of the area. The
|
|
agents assigned to the area probably observed the news programs
|
|
with great interest.
|
|
|
|
Then there is the involvement of Cooper. Readers will have to judge
|
|
for themselves the significance of this.
|
|
|
|
Here is my scenario:
|
|
Lazar works for some intelligence outfit. His background was wiped
|
|
out (ineffectively) in the hopes that the attempt to erase his
|
|
history would give credibility to his story. Others that come
|
|
forward are part of the same effort. Some are actual believers
|
|
who have been convinced by the thoroughness of the deception.
|
|
|
|
The information is released in controlled packets, perhaps some
|
|
intelligence leaks were provided directly to Soviet agents to
|
|
prepare them to be receptive when the television program came on.
|
|
It all is building up so that the climax of the scam occurs just
|
|
before the summit. The result is that Gorbachev is off balance
|
|
and Bush has the advantage.
|
|
|
|
|
|
I think this is much more likely than the possibility that what
|
|
Lazar says is true, for these reasons:
|
|
|
|
1) If this project were so top secret as Lazar says, he would
|
|
never have appeared on that program. Lazar said they knew
|
|
he was going to leak in advance. If that were true he
|
|
would have been dead. They would not wait until now to
|
|
take sniper shots at him, and if they did, they wouldn't
|
|
miss.
|
|
|
|
2) Bill Cooper has discredited himself, and he appears to be
|
|
involved.
|
|
|
|
3) After reading on the subject, I am inclined to believe that
|
|
the spiritual/supernatural/extradimensional aspect is the
|
|
most significant. I could go into this, but let me just
|
|
say that I too have been reading Dimensions, and the ideas
|
|
presented there make more sense than anything else I have seen
|
|
on the subject. This story does not fit the scenario.
|
|
Instead it fits into a neat materialistic mold which would
|
|
allow the military to control the phenomena by purely
|
|
physical means. This does not mean it is necessarily bogus,
|
|
it just makes me suspicious. It is too neat; too easy and pat.
|
|
|
|
4) The gov't has a history of "leaking" bogus UFO stories.
|
|
|
|
5) They are motivated to try to maintain the upper hand by the
|
|
significance of this summit, in light of political developments.
|
|
This whole thing may have been generated directly in response
|
|
to developments in Eastern Europe.
|
|
|
|
6) The whole thing may be relatively unimportant to our intelligence
|
|
community - just another little game to try to keep the other
|
|
guys confused, and good practice at generating disinformation.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Sorry, it's just too bizarre to believe without tons of corroboration
|
|
from many independent sources.
|
|
|
|
Cheers,
|
|
--Steve
|
|
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
|
{uunet,sun}!convex!swarren; swarren@convex.COM
|
|
|
|
--- ConfMail V4.00
|
|
* Origin: Paranet - The world's most important computer network (1:30163/150)
|
|
SEEN-BY: 19/19 101/667 104/422 428 114/37 115/876 120/80 132/113
|
|
SEEN-BY: 133/107 138/111 140/32 141/790 147/66 231/40 252/18
|
|
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|
|
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|
|
|
|
|
|
257/417 01 Dec 89 02:31:53
|
|
From: Usenet News
|
|
To: All
|
|
Subj: Lazar and his Amazing Saucers
|
|
Attr:
|
|
------------------------------------------------
|
|
Date: 29 Nov 89 20:47:15 GMT
|
|
Message-ID: <1519@taos.AlphaCDC.COM>
|
|
Newsgroups: info.paranet
|
|
|
|
Hello, paranet friends,
|
|
|
|
I have been reading the newsletter from paranet for some time now.
|
|
This is my first posting.
|
|
|
|
+I just had an interesting thought...if you had been sitting on the secret
|
|
+of S-4 and dreamland for a long while, and had instructions to release the
|
|
+information to the public only if it would not cause a crisis, what better
|
|
+time to stage-leak the real story, as most of Eastern Europe and the Soviet
|
|
+Union call off the cold war? Perhaps what Reagan was telling Gorbachev
|
|
+in their summit conferences is that we'll all hang separately if we don't
|
|
+hang together.
|
|
+
|
|
+More paranoia from,
|
|
+
|
|
+Michael Sloan MacLeod (amdahl!drivax!macleod)
|
|
|
|
Regarding Lazar, I just wonder about the fact that we are on the eve
|
|
of a summit of great significance to the entire world. As much as
|
|
we would all like to believe this intriguing tale (since so many
|
|
questions would be answered), I have to think that our government
|
|
has a powerful motivation at the moment for promoting this kind of
|
|
idea.
|
|
|
|
Given the credulity of Soviets on this subject, how likely is it
|
|
that the Soviet intelligence community is going crazy right now
|
|
trying to verify this story before the summit? Is this all
|
|
designed to throw Gorbachev off balance?
|
|
|
|
If our government tried to announce such a thing (supposing it is
|
|
false) they would be innundated with requests for demonstrations
|
|
and explanations, which would ruin the ruse. But the region where
|
|
these events are alleged to have occurred would be under constant
|
|
scrutiny by Soviet agents, given the history of the area. The
|
|
agents assigned to the area probably observed the news programs
|
|
with great interest.
|
|
|
|
Then there is the involvement of Cooper. Readers will have to judge
|
|
for themselves the significance of this.
|
|
|
|
Here is my scenario:
|
|
Lazar works for some intelligence outfit. His background was wiped
|
|
out (ineffectively) in the hopes that the attempt to erase his
|
|
history would give credibility to his story. Others that come
|
|
forward are part of the same effort. Some are actual believers
|
|
who have been convinced by the thoroughness of the deception.
|
|
|
|
The information is released in controlled packets, perhaps some
|
|
intelligence leaks were provided directly to Soviet agents to
|
|
prepare them to be receptive when the television program came on.
|
|
It all is building up so that the climax of the scam occurs just
|
|
before the summit. The result is that Gorbachev is off balance
|
|
and Bush has the advantage.
|
|
|
|
|
|
I think this is much more likely than the possibility that what
|
|
Lazar says is true, for these reasons:
|
|
|
|
1) If this project were so top secret as Lazar says, he would
|
|
never have appeared on that program. Lazar said they knew
|
|
he was going to leak in advance. If that were true he
|
|
would have been dead. They would not wait until now to
|
|
take sniper shots at him, and if they did, they wouldn't
|
|
miss.
|
|
|
|
2) Bill Cooper has discredited himself, and he appears to be
|
|
involved.
|
|
|
|
3) After reading on the subject, I am inclined to believe that
|
|
the spiritual/supernatural/extradimensional aspect is the
|
|
most significant. I could go into this, but let me just
|
|
say that I too have been reading Dimensions, and the ideas
|
|
presented there make more sense than anything else I have seen
|
|
on the subject. This story does not fit the scenario.
|
|
Instead it fits into a neat materialistic mold which would
|
|
allow the military to control the phenomena by purely
|
|
physical means. This does not mean it is necessarily bogus,
|
|
it just makes me suspicious. It is too neat; too easy and pat.
|
|
|
|
4) The gov't has a history of "leaking" bogus UFO stories.
|
|
|
|
5) They are motivated to try to maintain the upper hand by the
|
|
significance of this summit, in light of political developments.
|
|
This whole thing may have been generated directly in response
|
|
to developments in Eastern Europe.
|
|
|
|
6) The whole thing may be relatively unimportant to our intelligence
|
|
community - just another little game to try to keep the other
|
|
guys confused, and good practice at generating disinformation.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Sorry, it's just too bizarre to believe without tons of corroboration
|
|
from many independent sources.
|
|
|
|
Cheers,
|
|
--Steve
|
|
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
|
{uunet,sun}!convex!swarren; swarren@convex.COM
|
|
|
|
--- ConfMail V4.00
|
|
* Origin: Paranet - The world's most important computer network (1:30163/150)
|
|
SEEN-BY: 19/19 101/667 104/422 428 114/37 115/876 120/80 132/113
|
|
SEEN-BY: 133/107 138/111 140/32 141/790 147/66 231/40 252/18
|
|
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|
|
SEEN-BY: 1063/304 3607/20 30163/3 22 100 150 401
|
|
|
|
|
|
259/417 01 Dec 89 02:33:02
|
|
From: MacLeod
|
|
To: All
|
|
Subj: (none)
|
|
Attr:
|
|
------------------------------------------------
|
|
From: drivax!macleod@amdahl.uts.amdahl.com (MacLeod)
|
|
Date: 30 Nov 89 07:47:08 GMT
|
|
Message-ID: <1521@taos.AlphaCDC.COM>
|
|
Newsgroups: info.paranet
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dear Friends,
|
|
|
|
I saw this article in the sci.space USENET newsgroup.
|
|
|
|
I think it's some straightfaced bs put up to parody the Area 51 article,
|
|
but I could be wrong. The article had a strange-looking path line, and it
|
|
seemed to have been gateed from the Internet.
|
|
|
|
Article 15143 of sci.space:
|
|
Path:
|
|
drivax!amdahl!apple!brutus.cs.uiuc.edu!wuarchive!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!ucsd
|
|
!ucbvax!FNAL.BITNET!HIGGINS
|
|
From: HIGGINS@FNAL.BITNET (W.T. Higgins)
|
|
Newsgroups: sci.space
|
|
Subject: Re: Antimatter Drives and Area 51
|
|
Message-ID: <Added.gZQeYQi00UkT4DoU9i@andrew.cmu.edu>
|
|
Date: 28 Nov 89 15:47:00 GMT
|
|
Sender: daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU
|
|
Organization: The Internet
|
|
Lines: 61
|
|
|
|
Michael Sloan MacLeod posted a discussion about:
|
|
|
|
+Robert Lazar, formerly employed by the government at the mysterious
|
|
+Area 51, says that the US government has 500 pounds of element 115,
|
|
+which somehow produces antimatter when irradiated.
|
|
|
|
Lazar is pulling the wool over somebody's eyes. There were less than 300 pounds
|
|
of element 115, and probably less now. Samples were tested in various
|
|
university and government labs, including mine. Yes, it does give off
|
|
antimatter when bombarded with the proper radiation. If you hit it with
|
|
negative muons, 115 (I'm talking about 287, the most abundant isotope, here.
|
|
Inconvenient not having a name for the element, but there never was general
|
|
agreement on it.) transitions to an excited state that decays into a positron,
|
|
a nucleus of 114, and an antideuteron (bound state of an antiproton and an
|
|
antineutron). The 114 is unstable, and in a few milliseconds it gives off
|
|
another antideuteron and a pair of positrons. And so forth, down the chart of
|
|
the nuclides. Every once in a while a decay in this chain will throw off a
|
|
neutron, just to keep things balanced. This had everybody excited for a while.
|
|
You might remember the big *Popular Mechanics* article about it.
|
|
|
|
Unfortunately, it turned out to be a bust. We showered muons on our 115 sample
|
|
rods for weeks on end. The decay chain ends, after a rather short time, at
|
|
106Pd. And Pd has a tremendous affinity for hydrogen, and anti-hydrogen. We
|
|
had
|
|
made a bunch of antimatter, but we couldn't get it out. The deuterons were
|
|
stuck
|
|
within the Pd lattice. All we could collect were a few deuterons coming off
|
|
atoms on the surface, and positrons, which we can get anywhere. And instead of
|
|
an exotic heavy element, we were left with an inert lump of a metal anybody can
|
|
buy on the commodities market. Remember the joke about the alchemist who could
|
|
turn gold into lead?
|
|
|
|
Having established that it wasn't a miracle energy source, most labs pretty
|
|
much
|
|
lost interest. At mine, we took the experiment apart and went on to more
|
|
interesting work. The sample rods were lying around the lab for a while,
|
|
though, come to think of it, I haven't seen them in a couple of years. I
|
|
suppose somebody scrounged them for another experiment.
|
|
|
|
+This fuel is used to drive waveguide-type gravity amplifiers which
|
|
+are the FTL drive components of nine alien spacecraft
|
|
|
|
Eight. One crashed during tests in August 1981. Three of the remaining
|
|
eight have now been dismantled.
|
|
|
|
+stored in hangars
|
|
+out at Area 51 (the supersecret testing grounds also known as "Dreamland"
|
|
+in the middle of the Nellis AFB bombing range about 65 miles northeast of
|
|
+Las Vegas).
|
|
|
|
Not *too* supersecret. See the book *Dreamland: A New Age of Flight Testing*,
|
|
by Richard Adams Locke, Aero Books, 1985. A lot of nice photos of the place.
|
|
|
|
+From his brief description of how the drives operate, they
|
|
+seem to create local black-hole strength gravity gradients which slow down
|
|
+time and cause a space-fold quickly traversible by the spacecraft.
|
|
|
|
Get real. The correct spelling is "traversable."
|
|
|
|
Bill Higgins
|
|
+------------------------------------------------+
|
|
| These opinions are not shared by my employer, |
|
|
| or perhaps by anybody else. |
|
|
+------------------------------------------------+
|
|
|
|
Michael Sloan MacLeod
|
|
|
|
--- ConfMail V4.00
|
|
* Origin: Paranet - The world's most important computer network (1:30163/150)
|
|
SEEN-BY: 19/19 101/667 104/422 428 114/37 115/876 120/80 132/113
|
|
SEEN-BY: 133/107 138/111 140/32 141/790 147/66 231/40 252/18
|
|
SEEN-BY: 265/12 268/102 283/630 304/1 3 363/17 371/10 382/33
|
|
SEEN-BY: 1063/304 3607/20 30163/3 22 100 150 401
|
|
|
|
|
|
272/417 02 Dec 89 22:22:00
|
|
From: Clark Matthews
|
|
To: Usenet News
|
|
Subj: Re: Lazar And His Amazing Saucers
|
|
Attr:
|
|
------------------------------------------------
|
|
> 3) After reading on the subject, I am inclined to believe
|
|
> that the spiritual/supernatural/extradimensional aspect is
|
|
> the most significant. I could go into this, but let me
|
|
> just say that I too have been reading Dimensions, and the
|
|
> ideas presented there make more sense than anything else I
|
|
> have seen on the subject. This story does not fit the scenario.
|
|
> Instead it fits into a neat materialistic mold which would
|
|
> allow the military to control the phenomena by purely
|
|
> physical means. This does not mean it is necessarily
|
|
> bogus, it just makes me suspicious. It is too neat; too easy
|
|
> and pat.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Hi Steve. Well, like you I have been quite taken with Dr. Vallee's hypothesis
|
|
in _Dimensions_. But let's not get carried away here...
|
|
|
|
A few days back, pre-Crash (Alpha's hard disk, not the markets) I wrote a
|
|
semi-tongue-in-cheek riposte to someone about how unimportant it is who or what
|
|
builds and operates the UFOs we see, hear of, and investigate. Whether they are
|
|
built & operated by elves, pixies, leprechauns, Titans, Nordics or whatever is
|
|
not the point.
|
|
|
|
The point (to my mind, anyway) is that they print on radar, leave leave dents
|
|
in the ground when they land, occasionally scorch things and let people get
|
|
close enough to touch them -- even get inside. They are material things.
|
|
Whether they come from Zeta II, a parallel universe or Middle Earth, they are
|
|
physical objects.
|
|
|
|
Even though these devices and their makers/masters may seem to us as
|
|
present-day astronauts must appear to the most primitive Bushmen, I really
|
|
don't allow myself to doubt their physical existence or impute anything
|
|
supernatural or religious to them. I do not think Dr. Vallee does either -- as
|
|
least as far as I read his book.
|
|
|
|
It may be that the U.S. has some of these things somewhere and has discovered
|
|
that they are as real -- yet ephemeral -- as a leprechaun's pot 'o gold. I.e.:
|
|
They've got them, but they can't DO anything with them. Nevertheless they
|
|
could exist. And Lazar may be telling the truth.
|
|
|
|
If your doubts center around Lazar's still being alive -- in other words, why
|
|
was he allowed to "leak & live". Well, people like Lazar are double-edged
|
|
swords. Nothing gets public attention faster than an untimely death.
|
|
Especially if it's the death of someone who's been telling a story. It looks
|
|
like Cooper's theories (which coincide with Lazar's revalations) may stem from
|
|
Lazar himself. So if Lazar is authentic -- if his references check -- then the
|
|
Cooper sideshow may be just that. A sideshow, and not the main event.
|
|
|
|
Anyway, until Lazar is discredited -- or discredits himself -- I'm definitely
|
|
prepared to stay with this one.
|
|
|
|
Best,
|
|
Clark
|
|
|
|
--- QuickBBS v2.04
|
|
* Origin: -=<ParaNet Alpha(sm)>=- Denver, CO (303)232-6115 (1:104/422)
|
|
SEEN-BY: 19/19 101/667 104/422 428 114/37 115/876 120/80 132/113
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295/417 04 Dec 89 12:31:54
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From: Usenet News
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To: All
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Subj: Lazar and his Amazing Saucers
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Attr:
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------------------------------------------------
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Date: 29 Nov 89 20:47:15 GMT
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Message-ID: <1519@taos.AlphaCDC.COM>
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Newsgroups: info.paranet
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Hello, paranet friends,
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I have been reading the newsletter from paranet for some time now.
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This is my first posting.
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+I just had an interesting thought...if you had been sitting on the secret
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+of S-4 and dreamland for a long while, and had instructions to release the
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+information to the public only if it would not cause a crisis, what better
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+time to stage-leak the real story, as most of Eastern Europe and the Soviet
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+Union call off the cold war? Perhaps what Reagan was telling Gorbachev
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+in their summit conferences is that we'll all hang separately if we don't
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+hang together.
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+
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+More paranoia from,
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+
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+Michael Sloan MacLeod (amdahl!drivax!macleod)
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Regarding Lazar, I just wonder about the fact that we are on the eve
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of a summit of great significance to the entire world. As much as
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we would all like to believe this intriguing tale (since so many
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questions would be answered), I have to think that our government
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has a powerful motivation at the moment for promoting this kind of
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idea.
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Given the credulity of Soviets on this subject, how likely is it
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that the Soviet intelligence community is going crazy right now
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trying to verify this story before the summit? Is this all
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designed to throw Gorbachev off balance?
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If our government tried to announce such a thing (supposing it is
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false) they would be innundated with requests for demonstrations
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|
and explanations, which would ruin the ruse. But the region where
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these events are alleged to have occurred would be under constant
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scrutiny by Soviet agents, given the history of the area. The
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agents assigned to the area probably observed the news programs
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with great interest.
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Then there is the involvement of Cooper. Readers will have to judge
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for themselves the significance of this.
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Here is my scenario:
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Lazar works for some intelligence outfit. His background was wiped
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out (ineffectively) in the hopes that the attempt to erase his
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history would give credibility to his story. Others that come
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forward are part of the same effort. Some are actual believers
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who have been convinced by the thoroughness of the deception.
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The information is released in controlled packets, perhaps some
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intelligence leaks were provided directly to Soviet agents to
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prepare them to be receptive when the television program came on.
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It all is building up so that the climax of the scam occurs just
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|
before the summit. The result is that Gorbachev is off balance
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and Bush has the advantage.
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I think this is much more likely than the possibility that what
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Lazar says is true, for these reasons:
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1) If this project were so top secret as Lazar says, he would
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never have appeared on that program. Lazar said they knew
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he was going to leak in advance. If that were true he
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|
would have been dead. They would not wait until now to
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take sniper shots at him, and if they did, they wouldn't
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miss.
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2) Bill Cooper has discredited himself, and he appears to be
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involved.
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3) After reading on the subject, I am inclined to believe that
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the spiritual/supernatural/extradimensional aspect is the
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most significant. I could go into this, but let me just
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say that I too have been reading Dimensions, and the ideas
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|
presented there make more sense than anything else I have seen
|
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on the subject. This story does not fit the scenario.
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Instead it fits into a neat materialistic mold which would
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|
allow the military to control the phenomena by purely
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physical means. This does not mean it is necessarily bogus,
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it just makes me suspicious. It is too neat; too easy and pat.
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4) The gov't has a history of "leaking" bogus UFO stories.
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5) They are motivated to try to maintain the upper hand by the
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significance of this summit, in light of political developments.
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This whole thing may have been generated directly in response
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to developments in Eastern Europe.
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6) The whole thing may be relatively unimportant to our intelligence
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community - just another little game to try to keep the other
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guys confused, and good practice at generating disinformation.
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Sorry, it's just too bizarre to believe without tons of corroboration
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from many independent sources.
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Cheers,
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--Steve
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------
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{uunet,sun}!convex!swarren; swarren@convex.COM
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--- ConfMail V4.00
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* Origin: Paranet - The world's most important computer network (1:30163/150)
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369/417 11 Dec 89 18:47:49
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From: infopara@scicom.alphacdc.com
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To: All
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|
Subj: Info-Paranet #94
|
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Attr:
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------------------------------------------------
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|
From: infopara@scicom.alphacdc.com
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Date: 11 Dec 89 07:28:28 GMT
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Message-ID: <2359@scicom.AlphaCDC.COM>
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Newsgroups: info.paranet
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|
|
From: isis!uunet!sparta!sun!esanborn (Ed Sanborn)
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Mike C.,
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|
I seemed to have missed 'Info-Paranet #94'. If you could please send an
|
|
email of this I'd appreciate it. Looking forward to the Video-tapes of
|
|
Lazar happenings. Please feel free to fill the tapes with misc. at end.
|
|
|
|
Also, what's this business of missing coverage of these broadcasts?
|
|
Maybe this should be directed at Robert Klinn but it would be a shame if we
|
|
and quite possibly a tragedy if we aren't able to monitor the complete
|
|
broadcasts. What is the price status if someone wanted to get copies of the
|
|
broadcasts from the TV stations?
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|
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|
Thanks,
|
|
|
|
Ed Sanborn
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|
uunet!sparta!esanborn
|
|
w: (508) 937-1600
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|
h: (508) 453-5609
|
|
|
|
--- ConfMail V4.00
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|
* Origin: Paranet - The world's most important computer network (1:30163/150)
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394/417 14 Dec 89 19:14:53
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|
From: infopara@scicom.alphacdc.com
|
|
To: All
|
|
Subj: Lazar/115
|
|
Attr:
|
|
------------------------------------------------
|
|
From: infopara@scicom.alphacdc.com
|
|
Date: 14 Dec 89 16:41:19 GMT
|
|
Message-ID: <2399@scicom.AlphaCDC.COM>
|
|
Newsgroups: info.paranet
|
|
|
|
From: chalmers@violet.berkeley.edu (John H. Chalmers Jr.)
|
|
|
|
Is there any independent confirmation that a nuclear explosion occurred
|
|
in the atmosphere in 1986 as Lazar claims? The signature of such a blast
|
|
if due to 115 would be completly different from a fission or fusion
|
|
explosion. there would be no fission products from an antimatter explosion
|
|
an dprobably much less induced radioactivity. Is athere any data on this
|
|
supposed event in Nevada. Try the anti-nuke or environmetal groups.
|
|
--John
|
|
|
|
--- ConfMail V4.00
|
|
* Origin: Paranet(sm) - The world's most important computer network (1:30163/1
|
|
SEEN-BY: 19/19 104/422 428 114/37 115/876 120/80 132/113 133/107
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404/417 15 Dec 89 22:55:00
|
|
From: Michael Corbin
|
|
To: Infopara@scicom.alphacdc.com
|
|
Subj: Lazar/115
|
|
Attr:
|
|
------------------------------------------------
|
|
> Is there any independent confirmation that a nuclear
|
|
> explosion occurred
|
|
> in the atmosphere in 1986 as Lazar claims? The signature of
|
|
> such a blast
|
|
> if due to 115 would be completly different from a fission
|
|
> or fusion
|
|
> explosion. there would be no fission products from an
|
|
> antimatter explosion
|
|
> an dprobably much less induced radioactivity. Is athere any
|
|
> data on this
|
|
> supposed event in Nevada. Try the anti-nuke or environmetal
|
|
> groups.
|
|
|
|
Very good point. This and others aspects are currently being investigated in
|
|
the Nevada region. Most of the aspects of the historocity of the Air Force's
|
|
acquisition of 90,000 acres is correct, Lazar seems to rely heavily upon these
|
|
types of activities as a means to support his claims. However, this does not
|
|
mean that they are even inter-related to one another or to his experience. I
|
|
found the land grab inception to Lazar's story very interesting. The way that
|
|
it was presented to the television public made it sound as though it was very
|
|
mysterious, however, the Air Force did not say that their authority to do the
|
|
act of acquiring the land was higher than the United States, but only higher
|
|
than the Air Force. Surely, other departments of the government are at a
|
|
higher level than the Air Force, and with this in mind plus the fact that
|
|
Dreamland has been known to be super-secret for over forty years does not
|
|
support Lazar's claims. If there was an unscheduled nuclear test in 1987, this
|
|
may be suspect. I am very interested in that test and whether it was authentic
|
|
and if there was anything unusual registered by anyone monitoring the
|
|
atmosphere.
|
|
|
|
Mike
|
|
|
|
**********************************************
|
|
* THE U.F.O. BBS - http://www.ufobbs.com/ufo *
|
|
********************************************** |