203 lines
10 KiB
Plaintext
203 lines
10 KiB
Plaintext
SUBJECT: WHO'S DISINFORMING WHOM ? FILE: UFO2540
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
PART 7
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
The following file comes from the hard work of Bill Ralls and Allen Robinson.
|
|
My thanks goes out to them.
|
|
|
|
Don Ecker
|
|
UFOs Tonite!
|
|
Cable Radio Network
|
|
**************************************************************
|
|
|
|
|
|
The following are excerpts, highlights if you will from an inter-view of Dr.
|
|
Bruce Maccabee (UFO researcher and physicist at the Naval Surface Weapons
|
|
Laboratory) on August 8, 1993, by Don Ecker on the Cable Radio Network program
|
|
UFOs Tonite! This was pre-pared by Allen Robinson (with whom the
|
|
responsibility for any errors resides), with the vital assistance of Bill Ralls
|
|
and the gracious permission of Don Ecker.
|
|
|
|
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
|
|
|
|
>> Topic: Dr. Maccabee and the CIA.
|
|
|
|
Ecker: "I guess the first thing we have to ask is, did you in fact, over the
|
|
years, on a number of occasions, brief CIA?"
|
|
|
|
>Maccabee: "It would be more correct to say that I presented some >lectures
|
|
there. Briefing sounds a bit too formal. ....
|
|
>First of all, my first talk at the CIA was in 1979, as a result >of the New
|
|
Zealand sightings. The AIR report implies that I had >actively sought out the
|
|
CIA to talk to them, which is incorrect. >Talking to the CIA would have been
|
|
the farthest thing from my >mind. What really happened was this: I came back
|
|
from
|
|
>Australia and New Zealand where I carried out a major part in >the
|
|
investigation. And then I started consulting with a number >of people as I
|
|
started across the United States to get back to >the Washington, DC area. When
|
|
back in Washington, I mentioned >to ... the head of NICAP at the time, that I
|
|
would be interested >in talking to any radar experts. He happened to know of a
|
|
guy >named Gordon MacDonald who was a chief scientist at Mitre Cor->poration in
|
|
McLean, Virginia, at the time. He contacted Gordon >MacDonald and MacDonald
|
|
invited me to go and talk at Mitre,>which I did--to him and two other
|
|
scientists there--for three >or four hours, and they seemed to agree with what
|
|
I was saying >in terms of my radar analysis of the New Zealand sightings."
|
|
_________________________________________________________________
|
|
|
|
Dr. Maccabee said that a few days later he learned that Gordon MacDonald had
|
|
contacted some people at the CIA who knew about radar. They contacted Maccabee
|
|
and invited him to come over and talk to them.
|
|
_________________________________________________________________
|
|
|
|
>Maccabee: "What I had wanted to do was what I had done pre->viously for
|
|
various people. I had presented the information to >go over the New Zealand
|
|
sightings history and then my analysis >of the radar aspects and get their
|
|
comments on what they thought >was happening, because there was a big
|
|
controversy over whether >these were so-called 'radar angels' which are radar
|
|
returns >(i.e., signatures that appear on a radar set) due to atmospheric
|
|
>effects, or actual solid craft out there. So, I talked to this >group of
|
|
people. I didn't know who they were. And I got some >comments, some feedback.
|
|
And then, one of the guys mentioned in >the AIR report invited me back for a
|
|
more general discussion of >the UFO field. And a week or so later I went back
|
|
and we talked >I guess about general UFOlogy. There were two other guys
|
|
there,>people who basically had an interest in the subject. ...." Ecker:
|
|
"What was the level of interest in the people that you talked to at CIA? Was
|
|
it more-or-less casual?"
|
|
|
|
>Maccabee: "I would say more or less casual, although I think >they may have
|
|
been intrigued from the point of view of an
|
|
>interesting test of their ability to explain things.....
|
|
|
|
>"The second discussion I had at the CIA did mention a number of >documents
|
|
that the CIA might have had, and a comment came out >that there might be
|
|
thousands more. .... The guy who told me >that knew well enough that he
|
|
didn't know everything about what >the CIA had. Now, it alleges in the AIR
|
|
document that I con->tinued to have meetings with the CIA, 1979 through 1983,
|
|
which >is false. After the second 1979 meeting, I didn't have any >further
|
|
conversations or meetings at the CIA--had no further >contact, period. And
|
|
probably wouldn't have, if it hadn't been >for the fact that some of the work I
|
|
do for the Navy became of >interest to the CIA in 1984. At which point I was
|
|
contacted >again, but by a totally different person (nobody that I had >ever
|
|
met before) and I went there and briefed him (this was a >briefing) on some
|
|
work I was doing for the Navy. ....
|
|
>I didn't say a thing about UFOs and neither did the other guy >that I was
|
|
talking to. But he must have found out somehow-->somebody there recognized
|
|
me."
|
|
|
|
Ecker: "Now, we're talking about the Directorate of Science and Technology,
|
|
Ron Pandolphi--is that correct?"
|
|
|
|
>Maccabee: "Yeah, one of the employees who works in that."
|
|
|
|
Ecker: "Pandolphi."
|
|
|
|
>Maccabee: "Right. And he was interested in some Navy work that >I was doing
|
|
because he was tracking what at that time was the >Soviet version of it. And
|
|
subsequently, somebody mentioned to >him that I had been there previously. So
|
|
he called me up and >started askingme about this stuff that I had talked about
|
|
back >in 1979.
|
|
|
|
>Maccabee: "I would go over there occasionally in the following >years to talk
|
|
about this particular item of interest from the >Navy work and sometimes get
|
|
into discussions of what was going >on in the field of UFOs."
|
|
|
|
Ecker: "Did you realize how these things might look or would look, and did you
|
|
assume that they would stay secret? .... Did you assume that this would not
|
|
become an issue?
|
|
|
|
>Maccabee: "Well, I hadn't made it an issue and it still
|
|
>wouldn't be an issue if it hadn't been that Mr. Zechel has a >hidden agenda
|
|
here, which people who don't know anything about >him wouldn't be aware of."
|
|
|
|
Ecker: "Now we're talking about W. Todd Zechel, one of the primary authors of
|
|
this document. Many people may not know who he is."
|
|
|
|
>Maccabee: "Actually, I now realize it was quite a success, or >evidence of
|
|
stature in the scientific field. The guys over >there at the Agency who were
|
|
interested knew of my work in con->ventional science and considered that highly
|
|
enough so that >they'd be willing to listen to me talk about something that was
|
|
>totally unconventional. Thery're pretty skeptical about the >whole subject."
|
|
|
|
Ecker: "Let's get this out right now, and I would like you to make a
|
|
definitive statement. One of the things that have been suggested with your
|
|
contact with people within CIA, and one of the things that invariably probably
|
|
will get brought up is the fact that you are a disinformation person." ....
|
|
|
|
>Maccabee: "The straightforward statement is, I have not
|
|
>received any information from them for information or disin->formation. I
|
|
have not received information from them, period."
|
|
|
|
Ecker: "Now one of the things that you had told me that they did have an
|
|
interest in when you were over there lecturing ... you had indicated that a
|
|
couple of people were interested in certain personalities in the field and in
|
|
the computer bulletin networks --computer bulletin boards. Can you elaborate
|
|
...?"
|
|
|
|
>Maccabee: "Well, they had somebody, one guy over there, I guess >who was
|
|
interested in the subject, had checked bulletin boards >and came upon the stuff
|
|
that was dumped on there by Lear and >Cooper and all those other people. What
|
|
was that, 1988?"
|
|
|
|
Ecker: "Yeah, '88 - '89. Now was this official, or was this his own
|
|
interest?"
|
|
|
|
>Maccabee: "So far as I could tell it was just his own interest. >You know, I
|
|
don't know what the hell they do there. I can't say >that it absolutely was
|
|
not official. But I've been led to >believe at least, that this was just a
|
|
question of the guy being >interested in the subject, and checking on bulletin
|
|
boards to >see if there's anything on UFOs and coming on this Lear and >Cooper
|
|
stuff on CompuServe. I don't know where else it might >have been but I know it
|
|
was on CompuServe, because I checked in >on some of it myself. .... Well,
|
|
anyway, I guess the guy who >checked up on that stuff, coming not too long
|
|
after the MJ-12 >revelations and so on, didn't know what to make of it.
|
|
So,>they asked me what was my opinion of this stuff that they were >finding on
|
|
the computer network, and I told them that I didn't >have a very high opinion
|
|
of it. I think that Lear and certainly >Cooper started off with some relative
|
|
level of credibility, but >very quickly went down the drain."
|
|
|
|
_________________________________________________________________
|
|
|
|
>> Topic: The MJ-12 documents.
|
|
_________________________________________________________________
|
|
|
|
Ecker asks if Maccabee thinks the MJ-12 documents made public by Bill Moore are
|
|
real or disinformation.
|
|
|
|
>Maccabee: "I would say it's still an open question."
|
|
It is alleged in the AIR document that Bill Moore faked the MJ-12 documents.
|
|
Maccabee says he does not believe this.
|
|
>"But if they were faked, they were faked by somebody who is >pretty damn
|
|
clever and who knew things about history that we >didn't know until the
|
|
investigations of the documents began. >.... [I]f Roswell was true, there was
|
|
some organization that >had to do that job. It might not have been 'MJ-12.'
|
|
If the >papers were generated to draw us off the trail, it caused us to >waste
|
|
a lot of time but it didn't draw us off the trail. It >made us look harder."
|
|
|
|
|
|
>"I would say that, assuming that the Roswell crash was real, >which is a
|
|
reasonable assumption based on all the testimony >that we have, that there must
|
|
be some hardware somewhere. And >if there is hardware, and perhaps bodies,
|
|
held somewhere in sec->ret, then there must be some organization controlling
|
|
it. And >the job of that organization would be the job that reportedly >has
|
|
been assigned to this group called 'MJ-12.' I would say >that MJ-12 by any
|
|
other name is still MJ-12. There is some con->trol group out there hanging on
|
|
to the hardware, soaking up >information from the outside and not letting any
|
|
information >get back out."
|
|
________________________________________________________________
|
|
|
|
--end of file highlights-- from UFOs Tonite! on CRN
|
|
|
|
For a free catalog of all back shows, send a postcard to
|
|
UFOs Tonite!
|
|
P.O. Box 1053
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
**********************************************
|
|
* THE U.F.O. BBS - http://www.ufobbs.com/ufo *
|
|
********************************************** |