615 lines
32 KiB
Plaintext
615 lines
32 KiB
Plaintext
SUBJECT: THE PHOENIX PROJECT FROM A GENIE FORUM FILE: UFO2498
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PART 1
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Filename: Phoenix1.Thd
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Type : Message Thread
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Author : Various/Compiled by Ed Stewart
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Edited : Dan Brown
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Date : 08/08/92 (received)
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Desc. : Message thread about the Phoenix Project from a GEnie Forum
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P. MIDDLER [Paul]:
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So far, the Phoenix Project has released three reports:
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* The Dulce Report (Summary file: DULCEDOC.ZIP)
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An extensive study of an area that was claimed to have an
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underground U.S./Alien base.
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* The Ultimate Secret (Summary file: ULTSEC.TXT)
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The Majority Agency for Joint Intelligence (MAJI) The Secret
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War Against The Aliens Star Wars (SDI) Exposed
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* K-2 -- A Secret California Alien Base (Summary file: K2RPT.TXT)
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Their discovery of an underground Alien base at Pilot Peak,
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Plumas County, California.
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More are expected to be released in mid-to-late August.
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The following is a message I discovered on Fido:UFO from Jack
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Mathias, Phoenix Project Spokesperson, addressed to All:
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As stated in the beginning of each of our reports, [excluding
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ULTSEC.TXT] the Phoenix Project is a private, civilian, research
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organization without any official affiliation to any branch of the
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United States government. It came into existence by chance in 1952 when
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a group of "buddies" met and discussed their ideas. Even back in the
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early days of the UFO flap it was becoming obvious that the truth was
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not being released. Because of this the Phoenix Project started. As did
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the other organizations. However, unlike these others, we remained in
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the shadows, never releasing any information until it was felt the time
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had arrived. That time has come.
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The Phoenix Project has never and does not seek publicity. And, for
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obvious reasons. We also value what every other person does; security
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and safety. It is because of this that there is not much more that we
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can say regarding our organization.
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One of our investigators became involved in the UFO cover-up during
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the Mantell incident of 1948 and later became a special investigator
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with Project Blue Book until 1952. Two investigators were
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members of the Air Force and three were Navy. Each of these people,
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was, at one time or another, either attached to or connected with the
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intelligence edifice. However, remaining in the shadows mandates
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that the organizations, divisions, etc., not be disclosed. It
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is through these activities and/or contacts made during the time of
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military involvement that the team has been able to obtain much of our
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information. These contacts are loyal and trusted personal friends who
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we have known for more than twenty years and since every bit of
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information supplied by these people has checked out, we firmly
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believe that we have not been suppliedany disinformation.
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Because of our past intelligence backgrounds and to protect this on
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going relationship with these contacts, revealing our true identity
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could jeopardize the personal safety of ourselves, our
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families and theirs as well. We have all witnessed examples of
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"termination with extreme prejudice," a phrase whose meaning is well
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known within the intelligence community.
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..............
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Jack Mathias believes people have a reason to doubt the Phoenix
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Project findings, since their identities will remain secret. He did
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think Paranet jumped to conclusions about the Dulce and K-2 reports.
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Jack recommends getting the reports for reference and go check them
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out.
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I cannot think of a good reason why the Phoenix Project would be a
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hoax. The reports cost between $10.00 and $12.50, so they are not
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making much money from this.
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If there are some questions about the Phoenix Project and I don't
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have the answer, I could forward them to Jack Mathias to see what he
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says.
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M. MASTALER [Mike]:
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Paul.... thanks for starting this topic. I just got information of
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their reports, and as you said , they are quite reasonable. Here are
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some more reports they say will be ready Aug 30, 1992:
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K-2 supplemental report.
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The NASA presence at Quincy
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The Area 51 report
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The Joint US/Alien research base # 920815 $10
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(opps,that K-2 report # is 920820 $10 )
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The"icecaves" report
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The Los Alamos US/Alien base # 920830 $12.50
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Advent Publishing Company
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PO box 3748
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Carson City NV. 89702
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Send them a S.A.S.E. to get a complete list of their reports.
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Mike
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E. STEWART8:
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I am somewhat puzzled by these folks that call themselves the Phoenix
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Project. They say they are tight personal friends of each other and
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first organized themselves in 1952 after having shared careers together
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in military intelligence.
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Well, that means they have known each other for at least forty years
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and not twenty. Also, that should put them around seventy to eighty
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years old. Somehow, I am having a hard time visualing these folks
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scurrying around the Plumas National Forest gathering evidence
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incognito. It is tough enough for a young hiker to trek through that
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country, much less a setpuagenarian.
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But, I guess we will never know since they feel their true identities
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must remain secret.
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Ed
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Name Not Present in Header
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A joint US/Alien reserach base?! Into what are they doing research?
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GDW. SUPPORT:
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Orbital mind control lasers?
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Some of the guys must be a least 60, but there might have been some
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`additions' later on. From looking at the files, one can see that they
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must of had help with the magnetic survey, since I doubt that military
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intelligence personnel are familiar with using such equipment. As far
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as age goes, they may have had help from family and friends. I had
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received the same type of listing as Mike did, but I found out that
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people who received their lists just a week ago had a slightly
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different list. The differences included a July 30th date (instead of
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Aug 30th) and another report called K-3 -- A Secret Alien Base used for
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Controlled Humans. For some reason, they had to delay the reports by
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one month. I'm still not sure if they are for real, but I don't
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understand why anyone would go through such trouble to perpetrate a
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hoax. I heard that their logo is not a registered trademark, as the
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files suggest, but the source of the info is exceedingly unreliable.
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P. MIDDLER [Paul]:
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Well, Jack Mathias hasn't been on FidoNet for a couple of days which
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suggests he is either on a field trip or he is trying to lay low for
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awhile. Maybe his `group' doesn't like him to leak information, or
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someone is getting close to figuring out that it's one big hoax.
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The heliport near Quincy belongs to the forest service and there is a
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NASA facility along the restricted road that leads to the heliport. At
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night, the NASA people shine a green beam into the sky. Their
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experiments are either related to earthquake monitoring or atmospheric
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monitoring. The Phoenix Project is creating a report on NASA's presence
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there.
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M. MASTALER [Mike]:
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Keep it comin' Paul !!
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G. COX11 [GARY]:
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Paul
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You've tricked me again - first time I've been online "live" in
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sometime - surprised to see this topic. Someone just dumped me a copy
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of the k-2 report today - I haven't had time to read it yet. My off the
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cuff comment is that no one - I mean that - could find a superbly
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hidden underground base of unknown size with only a general idea of the
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location. What would be found - is a series of anolamous readings and
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findings and it would cost a small fortune to determine the true source
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of these readings. And this includes a fullscale survey by leading
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professionals using the very best equipment that exists.
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So it would be hard to prove or disprove anything of this nature
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without a lot more cash that the total sum of ufo enthusiasts could
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raise. I will get back here after I read k-2...
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I should would appreciate it if someone could tell me how to subscribe
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to this good stuff off of internet? The copy I have originated out of
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Pro-Net Australia Board...
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P. MIDDLER [Paul]:
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Gary,
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The Phoenix Project claims to have access to all the expensive
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equipment necessary to do the survey. Since Phoenix is a secretive
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organization, one cannot be sure if they have or don't have access to
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specialized equipment.
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Someone on FidoNet:UFO is planning to get some of his prospecting
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buddies together (one works just 10 miles from K-2) and they will do a
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magnetometer survey to check the Phoenix Project's findings.
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Why do you have to get your material from Australia? I got the
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material from FidoNet:UFO and Compuserve. Jack Mathias, the Phoenix
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Project Spokesman, places the reports on both of these nets. From there
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it eventually ends up in Australia. I'm not familiar with Internet, but
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if you get on a BBS that has it, they probably have hefty useage
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charges. There's a BBS called NetCom and they have
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UseNet's:alt.alien.visitor . I haven't called them, but the phone no.
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is 408-241-9760 and type "Guest". BUT you'll probably get big long
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distance bills and they probably charge for access to their BBS. The
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important posts that come from there are often reposted on Fido:UFO, so
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you might look for a local BBS that has it.
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P. MIDDLER [Paul]: (Forwarded Message By Mike Corbin)
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ParaNet UFO Echo#1726
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Dt: 07-26-92 23:56
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By: Paranet(sm) Information Service
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To: All
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Re: Strong Word Of Caution!
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Over the last few days we have been posting information supplied by the
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Phoenix Project of Carson City, Nevada. This information has been
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strongly disclaimed by ParaNet pending the results of our investigation
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to determine the validity of the Phoenix Project and its officers.
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While the investigation is still ongoing, we have found some highly
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disturbing things relating to credibility of the group. This
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information will be reported as soon as the investigation is completed.
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This should be in the next few days.
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Until this investigation is complete and the findings published,
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ParaNet wishes to urge everyone not to send any money to the group.
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Michael Corbin
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Director
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--- FD 1.99c
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* Origin: ParaNet -- Leading UFO Research Network (1:104/428.0)
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[Well, It's been a week since that was posted and so far they have not
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reported on their findings. Shortly after this message was posted,
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Michael Corbin sent a message to Jack Mathias, telling him to reveal
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the names of the Phoenix Project members. ParaNet may just be blowing
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smoke. They are trying to set-up an atmosphere in which it is necessary
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for them to reveal their identity. They should have already posted the
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disturbing information if they had any. Otherwise all they have is
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probably a bunch of rumors.]
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G. COX11 [Gary]:
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Paul et al
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I've spent some going over the K2 report here and have some general
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observations to make.
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An uncanny absence of sounds in a wilderness area is hardly unusual -
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it would be normal for the local fauna to shut down due to the
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intrusion of humans into their turf.
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The feeling of being watched is hardly unusual - it occurrs frequently
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with city slicker types who feel paranoid without throbbing masses of
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humanity surrounding them. Further in sensitive individuals with a
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great deal of experience in this phenomena - it can be a very reliable
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guage.
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The reaction of the local rangers was typical in all respects.
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It's not unusual for any area to be non-radar observed - large areas of
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the US are void of radar coverage.
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The initial tale of the discovery of the K2 site via triangulation of
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transmitted signals is a little flakey - someone just happens to hear
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an unusual transmission and keeps monitoring it - with SW there are
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many such transmissions.
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The closed mouthed loggers - this is common in an industry under attack
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by greens, etc. Samething for the road improvements coinciding with new
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logging in the area.
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A magnetometer is old technology at best - the portable kind aren't as
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fine tuned and data productive as the report stated. A computer
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generated frequency density map of the survey - which I didn't get a
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copy of - would be of interest. My interest would be seeing if the
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survey produced any unnatural geometry.
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Since a mag was used - the formation must be fairly shallow - if so a
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portable core drill could be used to sample the formation. If I was
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directing the mag team - I would ask for a comparative survey in an
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adjacent area to determine if either was anomalous to the area. A third
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survey would be fairly conclusive.
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Further a professional look at the area would include a fresh aerial
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survey - with aerial stereo pix used to generate an AutoCad map of the
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site. The next step would be a real look underground with GPR ground
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penetrating radar and using an AutoLISP/AutoCad program to produce a 3-
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d map. After looking at the results I could decide whether it would be
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worth sinking a drill bit in for a log or coring, etc.
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Interestingly enough - Phoenix's initial contact was Dr. Peter Sturrock
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at SRI...GPR was developed by Dr.Lambert Dolphin at SRI. If NASA truly
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shows an interest in K2 - it would be a serious give away if they were
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doing aerial photography and toting around some GPR equipment. Further
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it might serve someones purpose to fabricate this data and activity at
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K2 and wait and see who shows up. If the feds showed a serious interest
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it would tend to promote the alien connection whether the site is
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authentic or not...The most curious part of the report was the pond -
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was this a beaver dam?
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P. MIDDLER [Paul]:
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Gary,
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I always feel like someone is watching me.<g> You said a number of
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things, so I will respond to your message next time since I am tired.
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In the mean time, I stole this message off a Net to show that a group
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of people are making an effort to check out K-2.
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* Forwarded from "FidoNet UFO Echo"
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* Originally from Steve Jones
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* Originally to Warren York
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* Originally dated 08-01-92, 7:56
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[From ] Steve Jones
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[To ] Warren York
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[Date ] 01 Aug 92 07:56:02
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[Subject ] Re: Phoenix project
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Greetings Warren- I am not surprised about Thunder, Inc. Jack Mathias
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just left me a post that the address for the company puts inside the
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base boundaries for Kirkland. So much for that contact, but purhaps he
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still might be contacted just for drill.
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As I told Jack, even though I'm not from the state (Missouri I think)
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I am very much of a "show me" person, and as such, I am still not 100%
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convinced about Dulce. He respects that, which to me is a good sign.
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I have receved the K2 report and it is most interesting. There are
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several pages of X, Y coordinate data from the magnetometer, pictures
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of the site and specific locations of the cavern outlets, a blown up
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version of the topo map of the location (Bluenose Mountain Quadrangle-
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7.5 minute series), a map showing the radar zone coverage for that area
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(including the dead spots). These guys are definitely no into this for
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the profit. If I were making this packet available, the cost of $12.50
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would just about cover my expenses. The audio tape of the original
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transmissions that keyed these guys to that location are indeed
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strange. They are heavily modulated and overlayed with what sound like
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synthesizer signatures of a random sort. I strongly suspect that once
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these are lifted, the data tracks can be located. I can see why the
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guys at Stanford and at Ames didn't want anything to do with the tapes.
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anyone with sound engineering background should have a crack at this
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tape. I am looking into that.
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I have a group that is going to be doing a long term observation of
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the site and I am looking for qualified volunteers. This site
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observation will be from August 5 through the end of the month if
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possible. It may be shorter due to lack of manpower. This is strictly a
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scientific observation expedition and as such there will be absolutely
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no hostile intents. From what the report has stated (they did have a
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CE4 incident) the greys are just as curious about us as we are about
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them and respect those with non-hostile intents. Anyone who is
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interested should be over 18 years of age and be prepared for some
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possible heavy duty mental activity (as in grilling by the locals and
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the government people up there- and according to what I've heard there
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may be lots of them). Those interested should leave e-mail for either
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myseld or Dan Brown, my co-moderator (of the Sacramento UFO SIG). I am
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looking into the possiblity of some anthro graduate students coming
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with us. Everyone will be briefed before leaving.
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As I am sure that you are aware, I suspect that this transmission is
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monitored and I have no discomfort with the idea that they probably
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know that we are coming (the government). That is why I am making this
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as public as possible. They hate publicity. Even before this post, over
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50 friends of mine are fully aware of were I'm going and why.
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Warren, I have communicated with you several times over the past two
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years and respect you positions. Keep me posted.
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TTYL....Steve Jones (co-moderator of the Sacramento UFO Group)
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--- FMail 0.90
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* Origin: Gates Of Delirium (916)446-7286: (1:203/163)
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G. COX11 [GARY]:
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Thanx Paul - I know what you mean!(g)
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What have you heard about the Dulce location? Both the Phoenix reports
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were real mind blowers. With a large group of observers at the K2 -
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there should be some very interesting stuff coming out fairly
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soon...keep up with great info...
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P. MIDDLER [Paul]:
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Gary,
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I haven't heard anything further about ParaNet's complaint about the
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Dulce report. The report is about 18 pages long, compared to K-2's 60
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pages, so it doesn't have much detail in it. The airborn magnetometer
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map looks like a shaded contour map. They don't give any examples of
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data like they do in the K-2 report.
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Now, going back to your message on K-2:
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I don't know why the report included useless information such as the
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lack of rodents, the feeling of being watched, and "boiling" clouds.
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The content of the report suggested they were paranoid.
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> unusual transmission and keeps monitoring it - with SW there are many
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> such transmissions.
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Yes, but these particular transmissions are strange. The
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transmissions sound like bizarre music. There is a voice on them
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repeating words that I just can't make out. It sounds like "see the
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bears"?<g> The transmissions carry no data. It sounds like a bizarre
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relaxation or subliminal suggestion tape with strange electronic
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sounds, including whale sounds. It has nothing to do with aliens.
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> A magnetometer is old technology at best - the portable kind aren't as
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> fine tuned and data productive as the report stated.
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It depends what type of magnetometer they were using. There is no
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mention of what type they used in the report. Modern magnetometers
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shouldn't have any problem detecting an alien base, since geologists
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use it to discover mineral deposits. I'm not familiar with the
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magnetometer's operation, but modern ones use some sort of nuclear
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resonance.
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>My interest would be seeing if the survey produced any unnatural
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>geometry.
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They made the conclusion that these tunnels and compartments were
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unnatural because they were aligned with magnetic north. They were
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apparently rectangular. These compartments were not connected in the
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field data, so they think there were adjoining tunnels that are
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magnetically disguised by the compartments near the surface.
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There were two large entrances that had dead-ends. One was 40 feet
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wide at the entrance and narrowed down to 15 feet; the total length was
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270 feet into the mountain. The section of the mountain (hill) that was
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surveyed included magnetometer readings above the accessable tunnels. I
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don't know why these entrances had dead-ends. Greys are suppose to have
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the power to pass through walls, so they could pass through the dead-
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end, but why is there an entrance tunnel at the surface? Inside the
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mountain, the magnetometer readings showed four chambers. One was 20
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feet by 75 feet with 10 feet wide tunnels extending 50+ feet to the
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north and to the south. This chamber was made of fused rock because the
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magnetometer readings above it had dropped. There were two tunnels that
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were 160+ and 190 feet long and 10 to 20 feet wide. The readings
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increased above them, so they apparently were metallic. On one side of
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the surveyed quadrant was a large chamber that extended beyond the 400
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foot quadrant and it was metallic. The actual size of the chamber was
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not determined. The chambers could be natural deposits, but the
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magnetic north-south orientation seems odd.
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>Since a mag was used - the formation must be fairly shallow
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They made no mention of depth, but I assume they could use a portable
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core drill. But, the Phoenix Project seems to be worried about
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appearing hostile toward the aliens, so trying to drill into their home
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would be a hostile act.
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>Further a professional look at the area would include a fresh aerial
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>survey with aerial stereo pix used to generate an AutoCad map of the
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>site. The next step would be a real look underground with GPR ground
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>penetrating radar and using an AutoLISP/AutoCad program to produce a 3-
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>d map. After looking at the results I could decide whether it would be
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>worth sinking a drill bit in for log or coring, etc.
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Gee...you sound like you're familiar with underground surveys. If you
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supply the equipment and the money, I'll lend a helping hand <G>.
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Well..I doubt the Phoenix Project would have enough money to do a
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complete survey. And I doubt anyone else would do that.
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>Further it might serve someones purpose to fabricate this data and
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>activity at K2 and wait and see who shows up. If the feds showed a
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>serious interest it would tend to promote the alien connection whether
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>the site is authentic or not...The most curious part of the report was
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>the pond - was this a beaver dam?
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I don't know why someone would hoax it. Just having the military or
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USGS there doesn't really strengthen "the alien connection". If the
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USGS wastes their time and finds out it's a mineral deposit or a hoax,
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then the Phoenix Project is dead.
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They apparently saw a Grey at the site and it `talked' to one of them.
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The pond is dyked, so humans created the `dam'.
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Paul
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------
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G. COX11 [GARY]:
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------
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Paul
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Have they (Phoenix) done a report on the Dulce site? At least with all
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the activity at K2 something should come out of it. Maybe we can open a
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snack bar there to finance our stay?(g)
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On Cooper - the Psi BB had a message regarding a fight he got into with
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another UFO researcher - forgot the guys name - Van something - I've
|
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seen him on tv a few times. At least Cooper's story would explain
|
|
things like the Landrum incident. With goverment testing of alien
|
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technology.
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|
I read something interesting recently - there are always tales about
|
|
strange objects and artificial looking formations on the moon. There is
|
|
an artificial appearing object near the crater archimedes and lower
|
|
appenine highlands - in the mountains South of the great crater there
|
|
appears to be a huge structure located in some foothills. Lunar Orbiter
|
|
IV produced a poor photo of the object - and the area was
|
|
rephotographed by Apollo 15. People have ordered 5"x48" Apollo 15
|
|
mapping photos and have had them examined by high powered stereo
|
|
microscopes and determined that the newer NASA photos have been
|
|
airbrushed - the object erased. When comparing the various sets of NASA
|
|
photos with some done at the Lick Observatory - it's clear NASA
|
|
reworked things. Some people think this is done mainly to fool
|
|
planetary scientist's here - who accept anything NASA gives them...
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------
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M. MASTALER [Mike]:
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------
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|
Gary; Can you be VERY speccific on those lunar photos ? Do you have the
|
|
nasa numbers of them ? I can go over to the *space topic, and someone
|
|
there has access to these photos. then wo can maybe get some scientific
|
|
feedback.
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Thanks Mike
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------
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Gary,
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A snack bar is a good idea. I'm sure those aliens are pretty hungry.
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|
If you want the Dulce Report, there's DULCEDOC.ZIP in the library or,
|
|
if you don't have an unZipper, there's DULCEDOC.TXT in the Space
|
|
library. The spaceship in the Landrum case is strange, not like your
|
|
average E.T. ship. Maybe it was an experimental reactor that caught
|
|
fire. Somehow, I think the lawyer might have been able to do a better
|
|
job at presenting the case. The judge expected high ranking military
|
|
personnel to leak classified information, so the case died when they
|
|
didn't. The reason why I don't like Cooper is because he gives out
|
|
information that is obviously incorrect. Since he doesn't realize some
|
|
things he says are blatantly wrong, it makes me think he is either a
|
|
lousy researcher or he is making it up. Disinformation is a no-no for
|
|
UFOlogists, it has poisoned his reputation within the UFO community.
|
|
Reguarding the Moon pictures; I haven't heard about that, I'll ask
|
|
around and see if anyone else has heard about it.
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|
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
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GRAFFITI [Ric Helton]:
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------
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|
[1 =very= long message deleted, and the author asked to break it up or
|
|
upload to the library....]
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------
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P. MIDDLER [Paul]:
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|
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
|
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The Paranet message basically linked the Phoenix Project with America
|
|
West Publishers and the Phoenix Liberator. They are known for their
|
|
communications with a Commander Hattoon<sp>, who is in a spaceship that
|
|
circles the Earth. Jack Mathias has often put down that organization,
|
|
so it's funny that he's linked with them. The full story is still
|
|
unknown to ParaNet and they are continuing their investigation. I will
|
|
upload the ParaNet message and a file on Commander Hattoon into the
|
|
library.
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---
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**********************************************
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* THE U.F.O. BBS - http://www.ufobbs.com/ufo *
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********************************************** |