366 lines
18 KiB
Plaintext
366 lines
18 KiB
Plaintext
SUBJECT: THE SHUTTLE DISCOVERY: ENCOUNTER IN SPACE? FILE: UFO2491
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ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
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The Shuttle Discovery: Encounter In Space?
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06/26/92
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Larry King Live
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The Shuttle Discovery: Encounter in Space?
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KING: Welcome back to Larry King Live.
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A camera aboard the space shuttle Discovery recorded a curious
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sight nine months ago. Some UFO researchers are calling it a
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breakthrough video: a clear view of a craft, not one of ours,
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performing a high-speed maneuver. Others, with years in the space
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program, say it's just plain old debris. Judge for yourself.
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The mission was STS-48, flown in September of last year. As
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Discovery circled the Earth, the camera picks up what looks like an
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object drifting from right to left, then suddenly and strangely
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veering off to the right and out of view, followed by what looks
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like a tracer or laser from the bottom to the top of the screen.
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Another, closer look: The object appears to change direction.
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NASA says it was waste water dumped from Discovery. UFO
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enthusiasts disagree and claim NASA has long hidden the full extent
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of outer space UFO encounters.
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With us from Los Angeles - Don Ecker of UFO Magazine. In
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Houston - space engineer and author, James Oberg, who worked on
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ground communications for this shuttle mission, the one in question.
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Don, why are you so sure this is a UFO?
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DON ECKER, `UFO' Magazine: Well, it certainly has all the
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appearances, Larry, of being something that is unidentified. It
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certainly appears to be flying. And we do not normally associate
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waste water - or, as some pundits are calling it, urine in space -
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to make drastic right-angle turns.
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KING: Why would NASA want to hide it?
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Mr. ECKER: Why would the United States Government want to keep
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this subject under wraps for 45 years? That's an excellent
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question.
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KING: Why?
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Mr. ECKER: Well, we could certainly go into the realm of
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speculation-
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KING: I mean, the Government denies it, so you're going to have
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to tell me why you think they hide it.
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Mr. ECKER: OK. Well, to begin with, I have a couple of
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questions that I want to address to Jim first, Larry, that I think
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are germane.
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To begin with, good evening, Jim. And I have a couple of
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questions. To begin with, what capacity are you here in this
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evening? Are you here-
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KING: Hold it. They're straightening out Jim's microphone. So
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let me get straight with you and then they'll let me know and we'll
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be ready to take that through.
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When you saw these tapes for the first time, were you just
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feeding your own, for want of a better term, frenzy, something
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you'd been wrapped up with for a long time? Or did you turn this
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over for analysis? Did you look at it? Did you investigate their
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explanation?
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Mr. ECKER: Absolutely. As a matter of fact, I have the
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documents with me with what NASA had claimed that these particular
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anomalous objects are. There are several events on this particular
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tape that originally came from a cable television channel back in
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the Maryland area that downlinked it on the NASA K-band.
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Basically, this was event number two, which shows a number of
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anomalous objects in this particular segment of footage, and there
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are a number of things that just simply don't stack up with what
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NASA is claiming that these things are.
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If you watch the entire segment, you will notice that several
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moments after this particular event happens, NASA begins preparing
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for the waste water dump.
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KING: OK, now, James are you with us now? Are we clicked in OK?
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JAMES OBERG, Space Engineer: That's fine. We can talk to outer
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space OK, but I had a problem with your-
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KING: OK, that's James Oberg, space engineer and author. He
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worked on flight control for the shuttle mission.
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And you say this is not phenomena, right?
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Mr. OBERG: It's a phenomenon that's very familiar. Larry, we
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see this since the fireflies on John Glenn's flight 30 years ago.
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Spacecraft are surrounded by clouds of debris - ice, dust,
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insulation, and other fragments. These pieces - and I've seen
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these tapes and I've seen hundreds of hours of tapes like that -
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are fairly ordinary phenomena.
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KING: OK, Don has a couple of quick questions for you.
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Don?
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Mr. ECKER: Yes. Jim, what capacity are you here in this
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evening? Are you here as a civilian? Are you here as a
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representative of Lockheed-
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Mr. OBERG: I'm not representing-
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Mr. ECKER: -or of NASA?
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Mr. OBERG: Don, don't give loaded questions, here. I have no
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connection with Lockheed. I'm a space nut. I'm interested in
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outer space myths and folklore-
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Mr. ECKER: So in other words, you're here on your own accord?
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KING: Yes, in other words, James, you're not here representing
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NASA, right?
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Mr. OBERG: I'll play it back, Don. I'm not here as editor of a
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magazine trying to sell subscriptions.
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KING: OK, no, James-
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Mr. ECKER: OK, let me ask you this-
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KING: Hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it-
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Mr. ECKER: Let me ask you this-
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KING: Hold it, hold it-
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Mr. ECKER: James-
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KING: Don- Don- Don, hold it. It's my show.
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James, you're not here as a representative of NASA, right?
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Mr. OBERG: No. No, I have written on this subject for a long
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time.
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KING: OK. Did you work on this mission?
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Mr. OBERG: Yes, I did.
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KING: In what capacity?
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Mr. OBERG: I was in the flight control center, part of helping
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the deployment of one of the satellites. So I was there for-
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KING: Are you a contracted employee to NASA?
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Mr. OBERG: Yes. Yes, I am. Yes, I am.
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KING: OK, but tonight you appear as James Oberg, space engineer-
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Mr. OBERG: That's right.
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KING: -not representing NASA?
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Mr. OBERG: That's correct.
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Mr. ECKER: All right, Larry, I have one more question for Jim-
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KING: OK, now, go ahead, Don. Go ahead.
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Mr. ECKER: Yes, I have one more question for him.
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Jim, are you working here under the constraints of any security
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agreements that you may have signed with NASA?
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Mr. OBERG: No, I'm not. Myself's not the issue. The issue are
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these pictures and the big deal people are making out of it.
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Mr. ECKER: Well, this is a simple question, Jim. Are you
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working under security constraints?
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KING: All right, no, James, that's a fair question. Did you
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sign any kind of an agreement with NASA not to reveal certain
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things?
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Mr. OBERG: DOD material, yes. This is not, and this is not
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covered. Nothing about this material is covered-
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Mr. ECKER: All right, let me- One last question, Jim-
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KING: `DOD' means Department of Defense material?
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Mr. OBERG: Department of Defense, that's right.
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KING: OK. Go ahead, Don.
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Mr. ECKER: One last question, and this question is very simple.
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With the security agreements that you have signed, before we start
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addressing this particular segment of footage, if you had any
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awareness of anomalous objects, would you be free to talk about
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them? And I'm talking about anomalous objects that are not our
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debris or our spacecraft.
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Mr. OBERG: I am totally free to talk about these kinds of
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topics, anything seen on the shuttle. I have talked about it. I
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have a long history of writing for Omni Magazine and other
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magazines and books-
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Mr. ECKER: Well, no, no, no, that's not what I'm saying-
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Mr. OBERG: -because it's clear-
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Mr. ECKER: You're usually on-
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Mr. OBERG: I'm giving you an expert opinion-
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KING: Don, Don, Don- Hold it. Guys, hold it. This is not a
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trial, Don. He answered the question. If it was not a Defense
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Department fear, he could talk about anything.
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Now, would you briefly, James-
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Mr. OBERG: There was nothing on STS-48 that was classified,
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nothing on that flight.
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KING: All right. Would you tell us, you are convinced beyond
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question that this is debris?
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Mr. OBERG: This looks just like it. Now, it could be someone
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masquerading at it. Look at those pieces. They're small pieces.
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Why is it that we see these- It's always small pieces, just at the
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limit of the cameras. There are always pieces like that floating
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around. When jets fire, when things leak out or are expelled from
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the shuttle, the jets hit pieces. They change direction. I've
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seen it- I wouldn't say hundreds of times, but I've seen it before
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on other missions.
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KING: Don, what do you think it is? If it's a UFO, what is it,
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Don?
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Mr. ECKER: Well, to begin with, Larry-
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KING: I mean, why don't they land here and talk to us?
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Mr. ECKER: If, in fact, it were debris- And Jim is very well
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aware that debris will tumble, will toss, will turn while in orbit.
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The close-up digitally-enhanced segment of this particular footage
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shows absolutely no tumbling motion, whatsoever. This is moving in
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a straight line. It makes a drastic right-angle turn, shoots off
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into space. Now, if, in fact, it were a result-
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Mr. OBERG: Don's got to watch some more tapes. He's got to
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watch a few hundred more hours of tapes and he'll see this all the
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time.
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Mr. ECKER: If, in fact, Jim- Just a moment. If, in fact, it
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were a piece of debris and if the attitude thrusters from the
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shuttle had been fired, then, the way the camera was set up on that
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particular mission, the entire shuttle picture would have moved,
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because it did several moments after this particular incident.
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Mr. OBERG: I'm just amazed how much Don can learn about the
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space program from so many thousands of miles away from Mission
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Control. These are the kinds of things-
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Mr. ECKER: Well, if, in fact, Jim, we're going to talk about
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this, fine. If we're going to start ad hominem attacks, that's
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something else.
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Mr. OBERG: All right, let's go back to the films.
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KING: We'll come right back with James Oberg and Don Ecker.
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We'll also include your phone calls on this extraordinary topic
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that never goes away. This is Larry King Live. Don't you go away.
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{Commercial break}
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KING: Let's start to include your phone calls for Don Ecker -
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he's a researcher with UFO Magazine - and James Oberg, space
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engineer and author.
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Huntsville, Alabama - famous area for outer space - hello.
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4th CALLER: {Huntsville, Alabama} Hello?
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KING: Yes.
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4th CALLER: My name is O.H. Bond, Jr. {sp?}. I'm in
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Huntsville, Alabama.
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KING: Yes, sir.
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4th CALLER: I have an experiment on the shuttle which has flown
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a number of times called the Mesoscale Lightning Experiment {sp?},
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in which we look for mesoscale lightning and we look for the
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effects of unusual events which occur in space.
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KING: And?
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4th CALLER: Particularly, we look for lightning events which
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we've seen to go 20 miles straight up into the stratosphere from
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cloud stocks.
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KING: Meaning?
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4th CALLER: The question I want to ask you guys is- With
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respect to these flying objects, I agree with James Oberg. From
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what I have seen over numbers of years of looking at video images,
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this is debris from the spacecraft, as far as I can determine. And
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the second thing is I believe that many of the objects we see are
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the other debris which is in orbit.
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KING: Don?
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Mr. ECKER: I would have to ask, Larry, that if, in fact, this
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is the case that this was debris from the shuttle, why is it not
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tumbling? Why did it make such a drastic turn? The fact that NASA
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claims-
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Mr. OBERG: Can I answer that? If you give me some time, I can
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answer that.
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Mr. ECKER: Well, the question was addressed to me first, and
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I'm asking the question, Jim, and then you can go to it.
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Mr. OBERG: And you'll make sure that you don't- You don't want
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the answer.
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KING: All right, but it's a fair question that Don puts, and
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let Jim respond to it. Why would a piece of debris move like that?
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I've never seen debris move like that.
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Mr. OBERG: Well, you have to- People can watch this. As the
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shuttle is going through orbit, people don't realize there are more
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than 50 points on the nose of the shuttle, the tail, on the side-
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more than 50 points where debris, water, ice, come off- from the
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belly. And as these pieces come off and rocket engines can fire,
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they'll form what are called plumes. They'll form a blast. And as
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debris will go into that area, they will turn, and you can watch
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this.
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Fortunately, we have on the SATCOM F2R satellite and on many,
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many cable networks the NASA select from space flight. It's the
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reason that these people saw this tape in the first place. I would
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simply recommend that they and anyone else watch that tape for more
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than a few hours. Watch it for several years, in terms of the
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missions. And they'll be seeing this kind of event.
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But the thing about why these are just debris and not
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spacecraft, alien spacecraft- They're always small. They're always
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just at the limit of the camera.
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KING: But you don't know-
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Mr. OBERG: No matter how much the camera is zoomed in, it's
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still just a dot-
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KING: James, this isn't 100 percent-
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Mr. OBERG: -and that just tells you these are little pieces.
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KING: You don't know it for sure, but it's your best educated
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guess, right?
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Mr. OBERG: I'll tell you, if we saw some real spacecraft- If I
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saw some real spacecraft - and I know many people in the space
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program - saw something out there that could be really proof of
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something revolutionary, there's no power on earth that would be
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able to stop people from coming out and being on your show-
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Mr. ECKER: Larry, one thing-
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KING: All right, let me get a call in.
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Sykesville, Maryland, hello.
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5th CALLER: {Sykesville, Maryland} Hello, this is Vincent
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DiPetro {sp?}.
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KING: Yes.
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5th CALLER: From Sykesville, Maryland.
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KING: Yes.
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5th CALLER: I originally did an analysis of this very tape that
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you're showing on TV.
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KING: Uh-huh.
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5th CALLER: And I'd like to make a few comments about this.
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KING: Are you a scientist?
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5th CALLER: I work at Goddard Space Flight Center. I'm an
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engineer.
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KING: OK.
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5th CALLER: I work with the space program.
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KING: All right.
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5th CALLER: But I'm doing this freelance. And I'd like to say
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that I've sent this to a number of scientists, called a number of
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engineers, and they've all described this event as ice.
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KING: Ice?
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5th CALLER: Ice, that has turned in a way- If you look at the
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other debris that's on the screen, you'll see that in every case
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there is a right-angle turn that is made of this debris. In other
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words, it's not-
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Mr. ECKER: Well, Vince- Vince, let me ask you a question,
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because I have the entire tape. And I also have the section that
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you digitally enhanced that shows clearly a domed disc object that
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was recorded on this mission. Do you deny that?
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5th CALLER: I see that on there, and I do not know what that is.
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Mr. ECKER: Did you digitally enhance it?
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5th CALLER: Yes.
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Mr. ECKER: OK. Did it look to you like an anomalous object, or
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did it look like debris or ice?
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5th CALLER: It looks like an object, but I can't explain what
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it is. And I'm not saying that it isn't something that you're
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describing. The only thing I'm saying is that the explanation that
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I have gotten is that this debris is ice. There's no way of
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determining how big it is. It could be a microinch, a couple of
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inches. It's certainly not several hundred feet across, as a lot
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of people would be led to believe. And the explanation I got was
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that there were rockets, little tiny rockets, that are used to
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change the attitude of the spacecraft on the sides; that when those
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things go off- It's nitric acid and hydrozene that fires these
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rockets. When they go off-
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Mr. ECKER: Yes, and there is no flash, either, is there, Vince?
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5th CALLER: There is a flash that you can see at the beginning.
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And if you are so careful as to take a piece of cellophane and put
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it onto your TV set, you will see that all of these objects- Not
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the ones that are stars, because the stars you can clearly see go
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behind the horizon. But if you look at the debris that flies from
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left to right and so forth, everything makes a right-hand turn.
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It's even less-
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Mr. ECKER: Well, Vince, since you worked on this particular
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piece of footage, let me ask you another question. Before this
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event happens, this object rises up out of the blackness and is
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traveling from right to upper left. Now, if, in fact, it was there
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prior to the start of this sequence, how do you explain that?
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5th CALLER: I explain that in this way. If you listen {sp?} to
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the tape carefully, you will see that the spacecraft is just coming
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out of twilight into sunlight. Now, if there was debris flying
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around in the blackness of space, you would not see it until it was
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lit up.
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KING: OK. All right, we're going to have to do some more on
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this-
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Mr. OBERG: Or it might have come over the payload bay where the
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lights are. Either way, that would explain it.
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KING: Let me get a break, and we'll come right back.
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Thanks for calling, Vince, by the way.
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We'll come back with more. This is fascinating - I don't
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understand it, but it's fascinating! Don't go away.
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{Commercial break}
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KING: All right, we're running close on time.
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Don, are we ever going to see one of these land on the White
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House lawn and speak to us?
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Mr. ECKER: Well, I don't know about landing on the White House
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lawn, Larry, but we had in 1952 three flights that overflew the
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White House.
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I have one last question that I want to ask Jim very quickly
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and briefly.
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KING: All right, real fast.
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Mr. ECKER: Jim, are you aware of any NASA studies on UFO
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phenomena?
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Mr. OBERG: I'm aware, Don, of 30 years of phony stories-
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Mr. ECKER: And I'm not saying spaceships. I'm saying-
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Mr. OBERG: -in UFO magazines-
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Mr. ECKER: I'm saying-
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Mr. OBERG: -taking transcripts-
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KING: Guys, we'll have you both come back. We're out of time.
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Thanks, fellows-
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Mr. OBERG: -and faking them.
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KING: OK, thanks. We're out of time. Thanks very much.
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Hope you enjoyed this edition of `Don Ecker Live' from
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Washington. {laughs} A little fun there.
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*END*
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