656 lines
7.8 KiB
Plaintext
656 lines
7.8 KiB
Plaintext
SUBJECT: SKEPTICS CONVENTION FILE: UFO2165
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COMPUSERVE CONFERENCE HELD 25-JULY-89 at 9:30PM EDT
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GUEST: Jim Speiser
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TOPIC: UFOs and the Role of Skepticism
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User User ID Nod Area Name
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---- ------------- --- ----- -------------------
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1 72330,501 CGU Rm 2 John M. Gamble
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2 76056,2070 AKO Rm 2 JimV
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3 74756,413 GBN Rm 2 Jay H
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4 72135,424 PNB Rm 2 Jim S.
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5 75006,3640 RIV Rm 2 Tom Monticue
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6 72727,2302 DCI Rm 2 Frank
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7 76530,500 HVT Rm 2 Karl R. Wolf
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(2-4,Jim S.) Thanks for having me. Let me start off by elucidating...
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(2-6,Frank) I am Chief of the Air Force's Technology Branch at the Pentagon...
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(2-4,Jim S.) OK,...
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are more likely than others" ...
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(2-1,jmg) Jim, you've said that you consider the ET hypothesis the least unlikely of the
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UFO explanations. Could you give examples of what you consider to be in second
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and third place for likeliness? GA
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(2-2,JimV) Jim, I am still puzzled why you consider bolides and hoaxes to ...
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(2-6,Frank) As a teenager,...
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(2-2,JimV) Please give us some of uour 'snippets of evidence.' ...
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(2-5,Tom M) Jim,
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(2-4,Jim S.) Yes, and there are some fairly tall fir trees, I would guess,
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(2-5,Tom M) Jim,
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(2-5,Tom M) on that? These seem to me to be countradictary. Perhaps you can clarify ..
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(2-4,Jim S.) OK...
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(2-5,Tom M) Jim,
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(2-5,Tom M) I am going to have to side with Jim S on that question ...
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(2-5,Tom M) you are trying to proove a negative, Frank. ...
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(2-6,Frank) I was not trying to prove a negative,...
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that's...
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What are we looking for?... What would be the structrue or goals of
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research?.
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(2-4,Jim S.) For one thing, contrary to Frank's thoughts, I'm NOT necessarily
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(2-4,Jim S.) there is indeed something here worth pursuing. The ultimate goal, of
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whether psychological, perceptual, physical or even extra-
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terrestrial... Since the sightings persist, I can suggest that they
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are valid basis for investigation regardless of the point of view.ga
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(2-4,Jim S.) OK, that's a start. My point is,...
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public domain.
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(2-4,Jim S.) Let me try another poll...
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(2-6,Frank) Correct.
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(2-6,Frank) No.
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(2-6,Frank) I'd like to make a couple of comments...
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(2-4,Jim S.) Thank you, Tom...
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(2-7,Mark E. Meyer) When did the Hudson Valley event take place? ga
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(2-6,Frank) When I was 12, I awoke one morning...
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(2-4,Jim S.) I'm not disputing what you say, Frank....
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(2-4,Jim S.) but "tricks of light", and other perception problems seems like ...
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(2-6,Frank) I confess I stopped reading UFO literature...
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(2-4,Jim S.) "UFOs: The Public Deceived." It was because some of Klass'
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(2-4,Jim S.) explanations struck me as highly dubious that I began looking...
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(2-4,Jim S.) further into the matter. GA
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(2-6,Frank) The Pascagoula contactee...
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(2-6,Frank) failed a lie detector test, and subsequently confessed that...
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(2-4,Jim S.) You were thinking of "The Interrupted Journey," The Exeter incident...
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(2-6,Frank) I don't accept
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(Jay H.) I have seen
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regression. In this example, a subject described her nights
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sleep to an investigator on film and audio tape, specifying that
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she had slept soundly after going to bed until morning under hypnosis
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(and film) the investigator discussed a couple of possible loud
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noises like firecrackers or gunshots. After awakening she
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specifically remembered wakening from loud noises and going to the
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window and looking out.When the audio tape was replayed she could not
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accept her own account. She couldn't believe she had 'forgotten' about
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the noises. Even investigations by a sincere investigator, if his
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belief is strong, seem to be able to affect subjects'accounts. It
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often seems that the accounts given by subjects match up pretty..
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closely with accounts of others by the same investigator.ga
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(2-6,Frank) This is great, but I have to get up early. Good night, all.
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(2-4,Jim S.) Gnite, Frank, its been fun. And revealing.
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(2-4,Jim S.) Jay, any discussion of hypnotic regression as it
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(2-4,Jim S.) relates to abductions has to consider the fact that
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(2-4,Jim S.) 30% of all abduction accounts are recalled WITHOUT hypnosis.
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(2-4,Jim S.) Taking this a step further, it then becomes somewhat possible
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(2-4,Jim S.) to compare hypnotic and non-hypnotic cases to see if there
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(2-4,Jim S.) is any major influence on the part of the hypnotist.
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(2-4,Jim S.) Such a study has been done by a noted folklorist by the name
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(2-4,Jim S.) of Dr. Thomas E. Bullard, in a mammoth 600 page opus. His
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(2-4,Jim S.) research shows that there is not much evidence to support
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(2-4,Jim S.) the contention that individual regressionists have an
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(2-4,Jim S.) influence on differences between accounts, nor does
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(2-4,Jim S.) hypnosis seem to be a factor in general. GA
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(2-7,Mark E. Meyer) Jim, you earlier mentioned a book called
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(2-2,Jim S.) Its about the Hudson Valley Case. Available from Ballantine...
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(2-7,Mark E. Meyer) Jim,Do you have the author's name? ga
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(2-2,Jim S.) Phil Imbrogno, Robert Pratt, and J. Allen Hynek. I think it...
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(Jay H.) Jim I'm sure you know there is much foolishness in the UFO
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business... but I expect you've sorted through a lot...what do you
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think are the most serious books/publications?ga
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(2-2,Jim S.) (Oy, is there foolishness!)
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(2-2,Jim S.) Best book for skeptics is "Uninvited Guests" by Richard Hall, Aurora, 1987...
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(2-2,Jim S.) make that 88..
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(2-2,Jim S.) Hall is a science writer who does not suffer tomfoolery gladly...
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(2-2,Jim S.) and in fact has resigned MUFON over the Gulf Breeze affair and...
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(2-2,Jim S.) various other nuttiness...
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(2-2,Jim S.) Best publication, and the best overall group, is...
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(2-2,Jim S.) Citizens Against UFO Secrecy and their quarterly JUST CAUSE. GA
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(Jay H.) thx It/s running late here in the east, perhaps it's time to wind down..ga
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(2-2,Jim S.) I've enjoyed it. I like...
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(2-2,Jim S.) debates of this sort, because it...
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(2-2,Jim S.) hones my polemical instincts, and because I really and truly....
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(2-2,Jim S.) am interested in the truth, even if its that UFOs are all...
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(2-2,Jim S.) swamp gas. GA
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(Jay H.) glad to have you...please come by again on our normal conferences.
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(2-7,Mark E. Meyer) It's been interesting, Jim. And I'm glad to say...
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(2-7,Mark E. Meyer) (never mind)
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(2-2,Jim S.) OK, I'm glad to say never mind, too.
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Off at 00:26 EDT 26-Jul-89
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Connect time = 3:06
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**********************************************
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* THE U.F.O. BBS - http://www.ufobbs.com/ufo *
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********************************************** |