2848 lines
77 KiB
Plaintext
2848 lines
77 KiB
Plaintext
SUBJECT: BILLY GOODMAN SHOW WITH ROBERT LAZAR FILE: UFO2039
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Below is the transcript of the Billy Goodman Happening Show
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as it aired on December 20, 1989. Robert Lazar was the guest of
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Billy Goodman.
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==================================================================
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12/20/89
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Billy Goodman
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Goodman:
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What exactly does Area S-4 mean?
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Lazar:
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I really don't know. It might be referred to as "Site" 4 --
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that might be what the "S" is for, but I really don't know.
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There are THREE S-4's in all of the Nevada Test Site. The
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nuclear test site itself is a small area, and it has "sites"
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or "areas" 1 to 29 or 30. The S-4 there, I think, is a
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nuclear reactor. There's an S-4 just south of the Tonopah test
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range. And there's an S-4 -- the one that I worked at -- just
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south of Groom Lake.
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Goodman:
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Bob Lazar, while working there as a Government scientist, saw
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not only one but as many as nine flying saucers. And he's
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telling the whole world about it. He wants everybody to know
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that in fact there are flying saucers out there. Last time
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you were here, you never really told us what are their plans
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with these flying saucers. Do you have any idea WHY we have
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flying saucers at this point?
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Lazar:
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I guess it's just essentially research. The idea is to back-
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engineer them, to go back and find out how they can be duplicated
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using earthly materials and technology.
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606:
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Is it possible these machines travel in time back and forth?
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Lazar:
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It's certainly possible. Certainly, when you create any
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artificial gravitational field, you technically move in your
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own time. So technically, you do slip forward when you create
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your own intense gravitational field.
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606:
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BACK in time too?
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Lazar:
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Theoretically, that's possible. Exactly how you would do that,
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I don't know off the top of my head.
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606:
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So that could be used like a time machine, right?
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Lazar:
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Essentially yeah, that is --
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606:
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For time travel?
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Lazar:
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-- that is possible.
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606:
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Wow! That's really something!
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Lazar:
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Yeah, that's science-fiction-like.
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Fritz, Westlake, California:
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Billy, it is sizzling again on the West Coast. Bob Lazar,
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thank you very much for coming on again. You must come on.
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This has got to go nationwide. The cat is out of the bag.
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I'm sure those little gods in S-54 are listening in, and
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believe me, it's your best security to come on. If anything
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happens to you, we're all behind you, Bob Lazar -- everybody.
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This is like a snowball going down the hill and will become an
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avalanche, and ignorance will be wiped out. We've got to know
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the truth -- for once and forever. They are here! Let's find
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out why they are here and who they are and what their purpose is.
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Lazar:
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Well thank you!
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Fritz:
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Okay Bob, we're all behind you. Billy, keep that show going!
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It's the Number One show in America in talk shows.
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Goodman:
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Well, thank you very much Fritz. He did explain to you why we
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have flying saucers, right?
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Fritz:
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Well, I know why they are here. The general public has to become
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aware; they're just wakening up. It's like a film being lifted
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from their eyes. I mean, they've been laughing for forty years!
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Goodman:
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Wait a minute Fritz. You know why they're here? Why are they
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here, Fritz?
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Fritz:
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Well, first of all, it's a conditioning process.
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Goodman:
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Okay, you got it.
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Fritz:
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We are in a quarantine because we are so ignorant; our ignorance
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keeps us from meeting them. Big brother reaches out the hand and
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says, "Come over, little brother, let's have the cosmic connection,"
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but we have to become a world together -- earthlings.
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We are about 170 nations -- 170 languages; we have to come together.
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When we have a spokesman, then we will meet on equal ground.
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Tim from Pasadena:
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When you looked into the saucer, how does the hatch work? How
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does it seal up, and what are all of the mechanics involved?
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Lazar:
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The hatch -- or whatever it was -- was completely removed; there was
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just an opening in the side of the craft.
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Tim:
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Did the opening have any kind of sealing around it or a lip?
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Lazar:
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I really don't remember. 'Cause I was so interested in looking
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inside, I didn't really catch a strong glimpse of the sealing
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mechanism or any other thing around it.
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Tim:
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When you were previously on Billy's show, you said you looked into
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one, and it was all smooth like it had been a wax casting.
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Lazar:
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Yeah, exactly.
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Tim:
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Now, was that the only one you looked into?
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Lazar:
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No, it was the only one I looked into. The other ones I just saw
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from a distance, so I don't know any detail about them.
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Tim:
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And the one you looked into, was that the "Sport Model"?
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Lazar:
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Yes, exactly.
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Tim:
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And that's the only one you saw fly as well?
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Lazar:
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Right.
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Tim:
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What was your work there?
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Lazar:
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Like I said before, it was essentially to back-engineer the
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propulsion and power system.
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Tim:
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So you weren't really involved in the mechanics of the craft
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itself?
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Lazar:
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No, not at all.
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Tim:
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But mostly just the Element 115 and all that kind of stuff you
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were learning about?
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Lazar:
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Right.
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Goodman:
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What is gravity?
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Lazar:
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Gravity is a wave. It's a force, essentially, just like
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electromagnetic waves are a different type of force. I really don't
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know a good way to describe gravity.
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Goodman:
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Einstein and other scientists really don't have an answer for what
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gravity is, do they, totally; they don't really understand it
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totally, do they?
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Lazar:
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No, no, not at all. In fact, I don't think we understand
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ANYTHING about gravity.
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Goodman:
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Why don't we just float away ourselves? What keeps us down
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on the planet?
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Lazar:
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That is the attractive force of gravity.
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Goodman:
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Some people say it presses down, but it doesn't, does it?
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Lazar:
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No, it doesn't. It's an attractive force. It's like, on
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an atomic scale, the strong and weak nuclear forces hold the
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atoms individually together.
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Goodman:
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Is your actual title government scientist or physicist?
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Lazar:
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You could use either one.
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Goodman:
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You are no longer a government scientist or physicist, right?
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Lazar:
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Not employed by the government.
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Goodman:
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But you are continuing in the scientific field. What do you do?
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Lazar:
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I design and build advanced radiation detection equipment,
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mainly alpha radiation equipment for essentially use in
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detecting plutonium for national laboratories.
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Lee Samuels:
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How long has that craft been on this earth?
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Lazar:
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I really don't know. I don't even know how long it's
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been down at S-4.
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Samuels:
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Do you know where it originally landed?
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Lazar:
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No, you got me on all that stuff. They really never keep me
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in as to --
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Samuels:
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It could have been here for years?
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Lazar:
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Yeah. Or it could have been brought in in pieces from
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somewhere else, too.
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Samuels:
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Did you see just one craft or a number of craft?
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Lazar:
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I saw a number of them.
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Samuels:
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Did the other workers talk about it, where it came from,
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or more they towed in, or whatever?
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Lazar:
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I don't know. There really wasn't that much conversation
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between everyone.
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Samuels:
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Were you by yourself when you were investigating the craft?
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Lazar:
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Walking by myself. There were security people around me,
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but when I crawled underneath on the sub-floor to look at
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the gravity amplifiers, I got away from them. But there
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was no one right next to me the whole time.
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Samuels:
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Any evidence of LIVE aliens held captive?
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Lazar:
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Nothing I could put my finger on.
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Samuels:
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Then you didn't get to see any at all then in that sector?
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Lazar:
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Nothing I could put my finger on.
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Samuels:
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Did the craft have sleeping quarters for aliens? Is it like
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a Star Trek craft? What kind of craft is it?
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Lazar:
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No, it's pretty vacant inside. Granted, a couple of things
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were removed; they were sawed off at the base. I don't
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know what they were; I just saw little stumps on the ground,
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so I don't know what was removed. But it doesn't look
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like it had anything like sleeping quarters or anything
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like that.
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Samuels:
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Any writing you could detect or any language on the walls?
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Lazar:
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No.
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Samuels:
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Any panels, like a dashboard on a car?
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Lazar:
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Yeah. In fact, that was one of the things -- There was more
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than one control panel set up, but it looks like one was
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removed.
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Samuels:
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Were these craft all from the same source? Were they all
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identical?
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Lazar:
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No. Each craft was completely different in physical
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appearance. I didn't get to look in depth at the other
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craft, but I only fooled around with one.
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Samuels:
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I applaud your courage.
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Caller (referring to a certain book):
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Have you heard of him?
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Lazar:
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I think I thumbed through that book once. I think John
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Lear --
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Caller:
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What the heck is an energy grid on our planet?
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Lazar:
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I don't know. I don't buy that theory or anything in
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that book. It's a grid outlined over the entire globe,
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and at each intersection there's an energy vortex of
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some kind. I'd rather not comment since I don't buy it.
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Caller:
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On TV you mentioned something about a time warp and a
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folding over. What did you mean by that?
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Lazar:
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Right. It's how gravity, whether produced artificially
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or naturally, distorts time and space.
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Caller:
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I read about Nicola Tesla questioning Einstein's theory
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of relativity. He says that energy DOESN'T come from
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matter. Where does it come from if it doesn't come
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from matter?
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Lazar:
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That's a strange question. It can be EXTRACTED from
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matter. But it can be extracted by other means, too.
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I really don't understand that [question].
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Tom from Los Angeles:
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How can UFOs be kept secret for 40 years?
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Lazar:
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I did pose that question to some people at S-4, and the
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answer that I got was that it's the easiest thing TO keep
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secret because of the subject matter.
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Tom:
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Is that because it's tied in with a lot of parapsychology-
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psychic-type stuff -- National Enquirer?
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Lazar:
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Maybe so. There is so much disinformation made so available
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to the public via the tabloids and things like that that
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any true information getting out is assumed to originate
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from those sources.
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Tom:
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Carl Sagan is a "people" scientist; he's brought science
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down to the general public. What about getting him involved
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in this somehow?
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Lazar:
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I imagine he's fairly open-minded. I've never met him.
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Tom:
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He's one of the biggest UFO debunkers.
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Lazar:
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He's going to need his own proof, as everyone should require.
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It's impossible to make an absolute believer out of someone
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that hasn't had hands-on experience or has seen something for
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themselves. That's the way any scientist is going to look
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at it.
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Tom:
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How far is Zeta Reticuli?
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Lazar:
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I think it's around 32 light years.
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Tom:
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Do these ships travel faster than light?
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Lazar:
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It's an irrelevant question because they get around it
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because they're not in a linear mode of travel. Since they're
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distorting time and space, there's no true time reference.
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And since velocity is distance over time, when you begin to
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fool around with time, you really can't state a true velocity.
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Tom:
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Re the SETI program -- the search for radio signals --
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couldn't some of these observatories or telescopes be aimed
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at the places where aliens supposedly come from?
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Lazar:
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RADIO waves and frequencies along that band aren't utilized;
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it's GRAVITY wave communication, and a radio-telescope isn't
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going to pick up anything of that sort.
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Goodman:
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The way you got to see this UFO was not planned by anyone
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wanting you to see it, right? You were walking with security
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and you went into a doorway. How did you describe that before?
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Lazar:
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It may have been planned by them. I had no advance warning of
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it. I had been brought in a separate door the whole time, and
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one specific time I was just led into the area where I worked --
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through the hangar doors, which I had never been in before --
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walked directly by the craft, and began to slow down by it,
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and they said, "Just keep walking; keep your eyes forward," and
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it was just like that.
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Nothing was said, and I just went and sat down in an empty room.
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Goodman:
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You went and sat down in an empty room after you saw it?
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Lazar:
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Yeah, waited for this guy that I worked with, Barry, and then
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we went to work on some of the work we were assigned to.
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Goodman:
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What was some of the work that you actually did? What did
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you actually do at S-4? When you had an assignment, what would
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it have been, for example?
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Lazar:
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Most of the time I worked there I was being briefed and being
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brought up to date on what had been done before. Most of
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the hands-on bench work was with the anti-matter reactor
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itself: being shown how it operated, giving demonstrations,
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and things of that sort.
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Goodman:
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There was practically no communication with your fellow workers?
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Lazar:
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Right. They kept that to an absolute minimum. They were on the
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buddy system: you always worked with someone, and that's the
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person you communicated with, and there was really no cross-
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talk between groups.
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Goodman:
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When you went there for the initial interview, you said at
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the time they actually had a gun at your head --
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Lazar:
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No, that was at the security briefing.
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Goodman:
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Security, wherever that may be --
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The initial interview when you went to work at S-4 I'm talking
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about, that's not when the gun was at your head?
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Lazar:
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No.
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Goodman:
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When you went there, what was your understanding about what
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you were going to be doing?
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Lazar:
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Some high-technology work, and I assumed they were talking
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about some sort of gravitational propulsion system.
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Goodman:
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Were you excited about that?
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Lazar:
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Oh yeah, very much so, because there was some talk about
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that because it was something that I was interested in,
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something they KNEW I was interested in, and that was the
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hint that I got.
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Goodman:
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And did it come to fruition? Did what you were told you were
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going to do actually happen?
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Lazar:
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Yeah.
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Goodman:
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For what period of time?
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[Goodman goes right into NEXT question.]
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How long were you actually there before you let people know
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what was going on up there? How many months or days or whatever?
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Lazar:
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Probably a couple of months.
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Goodman:
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Every time you went there you literally had to fly up, land at
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Groom Lake, take a bus that was blacked out at the windows --
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Lazar:
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Right.
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Goodman:
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-- and no communication on the bus. What were you thinking as
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a young man. You're a very young man; let's face it.
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Lazar:
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I'm not that young.
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Goodman:
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Well, you're a very young man; I think you are. Anyway, what
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were you thinking? Were you just saying, well this just goes
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with the territory and I'm just going to go along with this?
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Lazar:
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Oh yeah, you bet! I would have done that and much more just
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to be involved with the project.
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Goodman:
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Ah! The excitement was just being there, being a part of
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what was going on behind the scenes. The secret part about it?
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Lazar:
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Oh sure. I would have taken a LOT more crap than they had
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dealt out.
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Goodman:
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Can you picture it? He's in his thirties, sitting on a bus,
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and accepting the fact, Okay, I'm going to work this morning,
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not talking to his compadres on the bus, is looking straight
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ahead, blackened-out windows, not driving on asphalt, all dirt
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roads. . . Didn't you ask yourself why they didn't do anything
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about the dirt roads?
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Lazar:
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It was a good dirt road. A lot of the roads around there are
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dirt, in fact almost all are.
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Mark in Los Angeles:
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Previously, you described the central column of the propulsion
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device as being a wave guide. There was a disk toward the
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bottom of this thing down near the anti-matter generator that
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spins. What is that disk made of --
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Lazar:
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There's no spinning disk.
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Mark:
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What is the disk made of? Is it a capacitor?
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Lazar:
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A disk? The wave guide extends down, and it widens out and
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sits on the curved portion of the reactor. The bottom of the
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reactor is a plate, but nothing rotates or moves; it's all
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connected together.
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Mark:
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Is that plate a capacitor?
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|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
No.
|
|
|
|
Mark:
|
|
Well, what is it made of?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Metal. That's the only way I can describe it; I don't know
|
|
what kind; it's [electric-] --
|
|
|
|
Mark:
|
|
Did anyone determine the kind of metal it was?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Not to my knowledge.
|
|
|
|
Mark:
|
|
I understand that part of the propulsion system involves a
|
|
very large capacitor -- which is usually the entire lower
|
|
surface of the disk -- that can make use of something along the
|
|
lines of the [Bifield] Brown Effect. Do you know what
|
|
the components of the dielectric material in that capacitor
|
|
are?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Well, if the bottom of the disk is one plate of the
|
|
capacitor, then the dielectric material would be the air --
|
|
if you're going to look at the earth as another plate of
|
|
the capacitor. But as far as the capacitor being integral
|
|
to the actual craft itself, no, I found no evidence of
|
|
that.
|
|
|
|
Mark:
|
|
I understand there's an antenna section in this device; what
|
|
is the resonant frequency that that operates at?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
The resonant frequency of the gravity wave I do know, but
|
|
I don't know it off hand; I just can't remember it.
|
|
|
|
Mark:
|
|
Can you give me a ballpark, like 2,000 kilohertz?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
I really don't remember. It's a really odd frequency.
|
|
|
|
Mark:
|
|
Is it measured in kilohertz or gigahertz or megahertz?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
I really don't remember.
|
|
|
|
Mark:
|
|
When you first started to go public and were meeting with
|
|
people at John Lear's house, I understand that there were
|
|
a number of witnesses at those first meetings. One of them
|
|
claims that you did say that you had seen an extraterrestrial
|
|
while working inside one of those saucers, trying to back-
|
|
engineer the propulsion system, and that you had been
|
|
looking out through a doorway or through a porthole in the
|
|
side of the device and that you had actually seen an
|
|
extraterrestrial walking around on the outside of one of
|
|
those devices.
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Devices meaning disks?
|
|
|
|
Mark:
|
|
Yes.
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
No.
|
|
|
|
Mark:
|
|
So you're saying you've never seen an extraterrestrial at
|
|
S-4.
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
I really don't want to get into that.
|
|
|
|
Mark:
|
|
The reason I ask is because someone else is claiming that
|
|
you have.
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Well, stated the way you did, no I didn't. And I never did
|
|
look and see an extraterrestrial. As the story goes, and
|
|
the reason I never bring it up, is because I thought I saw
|
|
something once -- walking at a glance -- and that's all there
|
|
is to it. And I won't stand on that fact because it was
|
|
just a fleeting glimpse; when I came back, whatever was
|
|
there was gone; it could have been a million things.
|
|
|
|
Mark:
|
|
I have a contact that claims that you were responsible
|
|
for determining that Element 115 was not in fact necessary
|
|
to operate an anti-gravity propulsion device in the earth's
|
|
magnetic field. Is that true?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
No, it's the exact opposite.
|
|
|
|
Caller:
|
|
Why are you going public? There's obviously a lot of other
|
|
staff on the project that senses a great degree of loyalty.
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
The straw that broke the camel's back was, after I left
|
|
the program I became concerned about what happens now. I
|
|
made a routine request for my birth certificate, which I
|
|
needed just for I.D. purposes, and I was told that it
|
|
doesn't exist, I wasn't even born at that hospital. I sat
|
|
on that for about a week and just wondered, and then I
|
|
began to inquire at previous jobs and also at other schools,
|
|
and that information was also gone. And I got the idea that
|
|
soon someone was going to disappear, so that's when I contacted
|
|
the TV station and essentially let everything out.
|
|
|
|
Caller:
|
|
But you left the program under very amicable circumstances?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
No, that's a long, involved story that I really don't want
|
|
to get into.
|
|
|
|
Caller:
|
|
Are you afraid of any repercussions from the govenment?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Oh yeah, I was really concerned at one time.
|
|
|
|
Caller:
|
|
Less so now?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Yeah, less so now, but you still keep in the back of your
|
|
mind . . .
|
|
|
|
Caller:
|
|
If anything would happen to you now, that would cause such an
|
|
uproar in itself, the last thing they would do would be to go
|
|
anywhere near you.
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Exactly. As someone said on the media somewhere, if there're
|
|
following me now, it's to make sure nothing happens to me.
|
|
|
|
Caller:
|
|
Did you witness any working models of the vehicle that were
|
|
operational?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
I only saw one operate. I saw one at close range while I
|
|
was at the area and then at extreme distance -- about 15
|
|
miles, when I brought some friends up to look at it.
|
|
|
|
Caller:
|
|
Using the technology that's being used, the craft are very
|
|
agile, aren't they?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Oh yes, very, in one specific mode of travel.
|
|
|
|
Caller:
|
|
In one direction at a time?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
No. There's two modes of travel. There's a low-speed mode
|
|
and a high-speed mode. I don't remember what they called them;
|
|
they had a specific name for them.
|
|
|
|
Caller:
|
|
What was the size of the staff working on the project?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
22 people that I knew of, in the area that I worked in. How
|
|
extensive the rest of the facility was, I don't know.
|
|
|
|
Caller:
|
|
I understand you were frustrated at the size of the staff.
|
|
You thought it should have been larger?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Oh yeah! Much!
|
|
|
|
Caller:
|
|
More could have been learned about the program more
|
|
quickly?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Sure! I mean, 22 people, c'mon!
|
|
|
|
Caller:
|
|
Do you think we understand enough about the alien propulsion
|
|
technology to build our own vehicles, using this technology --
|
|
or are we even close? Do we know what's going on?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Yeah, we know what's going on, but the problem is substituting
|
|
earthly materials, and there's no easy way getting around that.
|
|
|
|
Caller:
|
|
How is Element 115 involved in the construction of the vehicles?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Everything seems to come down to 115. It's a super-heavy
|
|
element. It seems that as you get into the heavier elements --
|
|
and I'm sure this property extends into as-yet-undiscovered
|
|
elements in excess of atomic number 115 -- that the ATOMIC
|
|
gravity wave inside the atoms holding things together begins
|
|
to extend outside of the atomic structure itself, and it's
|
|
this wave that can be tapped off in quantity -- small quantity,
|
|
actually. This wave can be amplified, contained, and used
|
|
for a useful purpose.
|
|
|
|
Goodman:
|
|
Are your radiation detectors for nuclear power plants?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Not nuclear power plants; weapon . . .where they use
|
|
plutonium.
|
|
|
|
Goodman:
|
|
Like the latest flight above us now?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
The Galileo?
|
|
|
|
Goodman:
|
|
Yeah.
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Yeah.
|
|
|
|
Goodman:
|
|
Are you involved with that, Mr. Lazar?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Not directly. Someone may have used our probes to
|
|
detect --
|
|
|
|
Number 37:
|
|
Are they flying these vehicles within our city areas at any
|
|
time?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
I really don't know. I was only witness to a couple tests.
|
|
I don't know how far they go. I think they're very careful
|
|
with them. I personally don't think they're whipping them
|
|
around the solar system because I don't know how profficient
|
|
they are at operating them.
|
|
|
|
Number 37:
|
|
Do you read any UFO literature in book form?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Nothing in book form. I occasionally get handed little tidbits
|
|
here and there and glance at them, but no, I don't delve
|
|
into reading.
|
|
|
|
Number 37:
|
|
You mentioned some stuff on the Billy Meiers case. Have
|
|
you read any of that information because you had mentioned
|
|
that you had seen some pictures?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Yeah, I looked at the, what caught my eye was certainly
|
|
the -- whatever that book's called -- Contact From the Plaeides
|
|
or something -- but it's essentially a picture book; there's
|
|
really no text in it. One of the craft in there looks strikingly
|
|
similar to the one I call the Sport Model.
|
|
|
|
Number 37:
|
|
What did you think of that similarity? Did that puzzle you?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Yeah, because originally I had kind of discounted the Billy
|
|
Meiers stuff, but that craft looks AMAZINGLY like the one that
|
|
I worked on. And another thing, somewhere in that book they
|
|
had a picture of a grassy field with three round indents in
|
|
the ground. Now that would coincide with the three gravity
|
|
amplifiers in the bottom of the craft and the imprint that
|
|
they do make, so that kind of makes me believe that that
|
|
really did occur.
|
|
|
|
Number 37:
|
|
You said you didn't necessarily share the same views of
|
|
Bill Cooper and John Lear as far as the big picture
|
|
was concerned?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
I'm not exactly sure what each individual story is.
|
|
John Lear has a specific story; Bill Cooper has a specific
|
|
story. I do agree with both of them in the fact that,
|
|
yeah, there's alien craft here and so on and so forth.
|
|
John Lear thinks there're here to use us for food. I
|
|
don't exactly remember Bill Cooper's story. But the little
|
|
intricate parts here and there -- I just haven't seen any
|
|
evidence MYSELF of it. I don't know what these gentlemen
|
|
have found out on their own.
|
|
|
|
Caller 37:
|
|
From everything you know about it, do you believe there is
|
|
a possibility there are benevolent creatures in the universe?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Oh sure.
|
|
|
|
Goodman:
|
|
How would you describe this picture?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
It's an interesting picture. It looks like a formation of
|
|
four and a formation of two flying saucers.
|
|
|
|
Goodman:
|
|
That picture came in a box delivered to the Vagabond Inn.
|
|
No name, no nothing. Just a note:
|
|
|
|
"This picture was taken from the 29-1/2-mile marker on the
|
|
day that I had the best time of my life, thanks to you,
|
|
Billy Goodman Happening."
|
|
|
|
That's all.
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
There's even a distortion in the cloud behind a couple of
|
|
them; that's really interesting.
|
|
|
|
Goodman:
|
|
That is right up there where people have gone. Bob mentioned
|
|
the same thing that I said when I saw that: "Boy, that's
|
|
a DAYTIME shot."
|
|
|
|
Look at the smile on Bob Lazar's face!
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
It would be interesting to magnify it to some degree.
|
|
Very interesting. They're glowing the color that the
|
|
crafts glow.
|
|
|
|
Goodman:
|
|
I don't know who you are out there, but I thank you very,
|
|
very, very much, because that is absolute, positive proof
|
|
that they are up there in the sky having a good time.
|
|
|
|
Do you think that they're flown by alien beings, or are
|
|
WE -- the military -- doing it?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
I think that the ones that we're testing . . . the one
|
|
that I was involved in I think is being flown by the
|
|
military. Whatever else is going on I don't know.
|
|
|
|
Was that picture taken over Area 51?
|
|
|
|
Goodman:
|
|
That's right. And it looks like it. Recognize the peak?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Yeah. Of course, that's a daytime photograph. And I was
|
|
told that all the testing was done at night. And, I mean,
|
|
that's interesting.
|
|
|
|
Goodman:
|
|
You described, when you went inside one of these little
|
|
puppies, that there were very, very small seats, almost like
|
|
a kindergarten type.
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Right. Exactly.
|
|
|
|
Goodman:
|
|
So we have to have some small guys doing it -- jockeys
|
|
or something?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
No,no. You could squeeze into it.
|
|
|
|
Paul:
|
|
Do these craft appear to be shuttle craft, not the main
|
|
craft?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
I don't know how you'd differentiate between the two?
|
|
|
|
Paul:
|
|
In most instances, people speak of them joining up with
|
|
another craft and then going out of the atmosphere. Could
|
|
the models you've seen be classed as shuttle craft in
|
|
that respect?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
I really don't know.
|
|
|
|
Paul:
|
|
They wouldn't carry a big fleet of people?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
No, definitely not. They are small, I'm guessing right in
|
|
the mid-30-, 40-foot range, somewhere in there. And as far
|
|
as carrying a lot of cargo or beings or whatever, no, there's
|
|
not a whole lot of room there. So possibly there is a larger
|
|
craft that they join with, but I didn't see any.
|
|
|
|
Paul:
|
|
Are there more engines than there are craft at S-4?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
That's a good question. There's nine craft. I really don't
|
|
know.
|
|
|
|
Paul:
|
|
It would be something to explain how in the hell we got more
|
|
engines than we do craft. There's got to be some kind of an
|
|
agreement or somebody helping us.
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Right. There's certainly more fuel than there needs to be.
|
|
|
|
Paul:
|
|
Since they have released you and taken away your scientific
|
|
livelihood, I hope you go on the national circuit, 60 Minutes,
|
|
the Carson show, everything you can get on, and milk it for
|
|
every dime you can get.
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
[laughs]
|
|
|
|
Paul:
|
|
You have a right to do that since they interrupted your career.
|
|
But the important thing is to get this stuff into the hands of
|
|
the scientific community, that can do some good with it.
|
|
|
|
They've been toying with it for years and nothing's come out of
|
|
it. We can't get anywhere. We've got to get it out of the
|
|
hands of these power-mongers.
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
I agree one hundred percent.
|
|
|
|
Paul:
|
|
I think that's why you took people up there in the first
|
|
place. You were tired of their games.
|
|
|
|
Wesley Crumb, Charleston, Illinois:
|
|
It's a great privilege to get a chance to speak with you.
|
|
I greatly admire your courage in coming forward. I saw a
|
|
copy of the KLAS program you did. When I first heard about
|
|
you I ran up about a $300 phone bill calling New York and
|
|
Chicago, and everywhere. I got a rejection today from the
|
|
Donahue show that they don't want to do a program about you.
|
|
|
|
Did you go inside all nine spacecraft?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
No, no, just one.
|
|
|
|
Crumb:
|
|
When you were inside the craft, did you see any indication
|
|
that either through markings on the controls or otherwise
|
|
that these ships were from a different place? Was there
|
|
any writing on any controls or anything?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
No, not on controls and things like that. But I did see
|
|
some evidence of writing.
|
|
|
|
Crumb:
|
|
When you saw the slight demonstration that was performed for
|
|
you, were you the only person that was there that saw this
|
|
craft operate?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
No, there were several people. I was standing right next to
|
|
the person who was in radio contact with the craft.
|
|
|
|
Crumb:
|
|
How long did this demonstration last?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
It was a short duration. It lifted off the ground, slid
|
|
over to the left, then back to the right, and set back
|
|
down. It was a very short duration.
|
|
|
|
Crumb:
|
|
But you never saw who was at the controls?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
No, because when I was brought in, the craft was in the
|
|
hangar. When I came out, it was already out of the hangar
|
|
and sitting on -- well, sitting out away from the hangar
|
|
some distance. So I don't know how it was brought out, who
|
|
brought it out, who got in it. I can only guess.
|
|
|
|
Crumb:
|
|
Is the entire thing underground -- all nine different
|
|
hangars?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
No, it's not underground; it's just butt up against the
|
|
side of a little mountain, a little hill kind of, but it's
|
|
kind of inside the mountain.
|
|
|
|
Crumb:
|
|
Do you feel that the billions of dollars that are being
|
|
spent on the space program by the administration is a waste
|
|
of money, as we already have these ships in our posssession?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
No, because look at all the technology that we did get out
|
|
of the space program.
|
|
|
|
Crumb:
|
|
Was it ever disclosed to you that these craft were on loan
|
|
to us. Is there a chance of them being repossessed at any
|
|
time?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
No, none of that was ever disclosed to me -- anything about
|
|
the origin.
|
|
|
|
Crumb:
|
|
I heard a rumor earlier this evening that your van was shot
|
|
at recently. Is there any truth to that?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
I don't have a van. I was shot at in my car.
|
|
|
|
Crumb:
|
|
It got passed on to me from the Video Clearinghouse in
|
|
Yucaipa, and we've been keeping pretty close touch ever
|
|
since this news broke.
|
|
|
|
I did get a call yesterday from the National Enquirer. They
|
|
might follow up and try and do something for you, Bob.
|
|
The Enquirer is not exactly the best way you want to go,
|
|
but at least it does have some national exposure.
|
|
|
|
Burt in Burbank:
|
|
You said there's more fuel than necessary at the Test
|
|
Site?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Yeah. I don't know exactly where it is, but there's
|
|
500 pounds.
|
|
|
|
Burt:
|
|
500 pounds of Element 115?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Yeah, and it takes 223 grams per craft, so there's
|
|
definitely an abundance of fuel out there.
|
|
|
|
Burt:
|
|
Could you quickly describe the underside of these
|
|
ships?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
No, because I only saw from a SIDE view of only
|
|
one craft. The other ones were always sitting on the
|
|
ground; I never saw it. But the underside is
|
|
essentially flat. Now, I never got directly under it
|
|
to look. There might be some features down there, but
|
|
I really don't know.
|
|
|
|
Burt:
|
|
The reason I ask is because you were talking about the
|
|
three distortions that can come down from the gravity
|
|
engines to distort the graph.
|
|
|
|
Are you aware of any time distortion within the saucer
|
|
itself while they are running?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Yeah, there has to be.
|
|
|
|
Burt:
|
|
What about SIZE distortion within the ship?
|
|
I've heard reports that people who have been in
|
|
these that the inside seems much larger than the
|
|
outside would indicate.
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
I have heard that too, but I haven't really seen
|
|
any evidence of that.
|
|
|
|
Burt:
|
|
You were talking about the low- and high-speed modes
|
|
and the control factors in there. Can you describe
|
|
those modes and what the ship looks like each time
|
|
it is going through those modes?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
The low-speed mode -- and I REALLY wish I could remember
|
|
what they call these, but I can't, as I can't remember
|
|
the frequency of the wave --
|
|
|
|
The low-speed mode: The craft is very vulnerable; it bobs
|
|
around. And it's sitting on a weak gravitational field,
|
|
sitting on three gravity waves. And it just bounces
|
|
around. And it can focus the waves behind it and keep
|
|
falling forward and hobble around at low speed.
|
|
|
|
The second mode: They increase the amplitude of the
|
|
field, and the craft begins to lift, and it performs a
|
|
ROLL maneuver: it begins to turn, roll, begins to turn
|
|
over. As it begins to leave the earth's gravitational
|
|
field, they point the bottom of the craft at the
|
|
DESTINATION. This is the second mode of travel, where
|
|
they converge the three gravity amplifiers -- FOCUS
|
|
them -- on a point that they want to go to. Then they
|
|
bring them up to full power, and this is where the
|
|
tremendous time-space distortion takes place, and that
|
|
whips them right to that point.
|
|
|
|
Burt:
|
|
Did you actually bench-test a unit away from the
|
|
craft itself?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
The reactor, yeah.
|
|
|
|
Burt:
|
|
About how large is this, and could you describe it?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
The device itself is probably a plate about 18 inches
|
|
square; I said diameter before but it is square. There's
|
|
a half-sphere on top where the gravity wave is tapped off
|
|
of, but that's about the size of it.
|
|
|
|
Amy:
|
|
Are there subjects you won't talk about regarding what
|
|
was going on at Groom Lake at the project?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
No, I don't think so.
|
|
|
|
Amy:
|
|
Do you have future plans for more publicity?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
There are several networks that are interested.
|
|
|
|
Amy:
|
|
60 Minutes?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
That's been mentioned, but I haven't heard anything
|
|
officially.
|
|
|
|
Amy:
|
|
Would you do it?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Yeah, I'd do a major network thing, sure.
|
|
|
|
Amy:
|
|
Are you familiar with the movie Hangar 18?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Yeah, I think I saw that when it first came out.
|
|
|
|
Amy:
|
|
Do you remember any parallels to what you know now?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
I don't remember enough about the movie.
|
|
|
|
Amy:
|
|
The KLAS-TV program showed a Los Alamos newspaper
|
|
article about you during the time that you were
|
|
at Los Alamos. What paper was that? When was it
|
|
written?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
The Monitor, July 1982, or something like that.
|
|
I think I still have a copy at home.
|
|
|
|
Amy:
|
|
Did the alien craft create harmful radioactivity
|
|
in the area?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
No.
|
|
|
|
Amy:
|
|
The woman talked about on the show a few days ago --
|
|
the child and the two women [Cash/Landrum case?] -- and
|
|
they now have cancer. How did that occur?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
I've heard of that before, and that sounds like a
|
|
really poor attempt at us producing a craft -- a
|
|
nuclear-powered craft, really dirty, spewing nuclear
|
|
material all over the place. It sounds something
|
|
that we would make. It really rings human.
|
|
|
|
Amy:
|
|
Do the aliens appear to be the same physical makeup?
|
|
From your research on the craft itself, can you tell
|
|
if they are similar to us -- by the way it was
|
|
designed?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Certainly smaller.
|
|
|
|
Amy:
|
|
But there's nothing other than that?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Not from the crafts. I read some material pertaining
|
|
to what they call the typical grey. I believe
|
|
them to be that.
|
|
|
|
Goodman:
|
|
It was interesting when you asked for your birth
|
|
certificate, and you could not locate it. And
|
|
they told you that literally you did not exist?
|
|
They TOLD you this in so many words?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
They said we just have no records here.
|
|
|
|
Goodman:
|
|
And YOU felt that you didn't exist?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
I felt that that's what they were trying to
|
|
make happen.
|
|
|
|
Goodman:
|
|
Are you familiar with that type of thing
|
|
being done?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
No, I never heard of it before. I guess
|
|
other people have.
|
|
|
|
Goodman:
|
|
Did you ever get your birth certificate?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Nope.
|
|
|
|
Goodman:
|
|
What about diplomas and things of that nature?
|
|
Was there any record of any colleges you have
|
|
attended?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
George Knapp tracked down one, and they still
|
|
had a record there.
|
|
|
|
Goodman:
|
|
All the rest are gone?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Yeah.
|
|
|
|
Goodman:
|
|
Have you called the colleges yourself and asked
|
|
for copies?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Yeah. Yeah. Just like I went and called Los
|
|
Alamos, too, and they said, no, you never worked
|
|
here, and you know, I've been there for years. You
|
|
can present them with the information, look, here's
|
|
my name in the [Los Alamos] phone book, here are the
|
|
people that I've worked with, here is the guy that
|
|
I worked for, this is the project I worked on, and
|
|
all they say is no. I mean it's ridiculous.
|
|
|
|
Goodman:
|
|
And when you're talking to these people, I'm sure
|
|
there are some that probably are just working there;
|
|
they don't know any different. They are just checking
|
|
the records and saying we don't have anything.
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Right. You can hear them when you call up. They
|
|
are checking on the computer. They will type in
|
|
your name and it won't come up. So that's
|
|
probably all they do know.
|
|
|
|
Goodman:
|
|
People should realize this -- nowadays especially --
|
|
you could be pulled out -- all of us could -- and
|
|
anything we've ever done. If someone pulls your
|
|
name out of a computer where you've worked before
|
|
or you've had some past, you don't exist because
|
|
the new person or a personnel director going in and
|
|
checking -- you're not there. You have no record
|
|
of that individual.
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Right. It depends on the level that you look into
|
|
it, too. Like I said, George Knapp went out to
|
|
Los Alamos, and that's where he got the telephone
|
|
directory and spoke to someone I worked with out
|
|
there, and so on.
|
|
|
|
Goodman:
|
|
This mode of travel involved in moving these
|
|
UFOs around: Can you see that being a mode of
|
|
travel for us in the future. You said it only
|
|
took grams of fuel. That sounds pretty good
|
|
to me as far as being efficient. Do you think that
|
|
it's possible that we could be traveling like that
|
|
in the future?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Well, obviously, THEY do, so I imagine it's possible
|
|
in the future.
|
|
|
|
Goodman:
|
|
I'm talking about our automobiles. And do you have to
|
|
be off the ground in order to travel like this?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Yeah, I think you do. It's not a very good mode of
|
|
slow-speed travel.
|
|
|
|
Goodman:
|
|
Something else we talked about off the air. We might
|
|
as well tell the people about it. Some strange things
|
|
are going on in your life. You mentioned about car doors
|
|
being opened. Describe what happened the other night
|
|
when you and your . . . Shelley left the house and you
|
|
came back and the doors were wide open. What do you
|
|
think about all this?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
It's crazy! A friend of mine, Shelley, was over, and
|
|
we went out to a bar to have a, a, well, a buffet. We
|
|
went out, locked the door, checked everything, and we
|
|
came back several hours later, and all the doors were open.
|
|
And nothing was disturbed in the house; nothing was
|
|
taken. In her car that was left in the driveway, the
|
|
seats were moved all the way back like someone big sat
|
|
in them.
|
|
|
|
I've gone with other friends to a health club that I
|
|
go to. We lock the doors and check them; in fact, I
|
|
usually keep a gun in the car and put my wallet on the
|
|
dash. We've come out and the doors have been not just
|
|
unlocked but actually open -- not even the wallet taken
|
|
or the gun. Certainly kids would have done THAT. It's
|
|
just like someone wants me to know that they're still
|
|
there.
|
|
|
|
Goodman:
|
|
The last time you were on the Happening, you revealed
|
|
the gentleman's name --
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Dennis Mariano
|
|
|
|
Goodman:
|
|
-- saying he was threatening you and was the biggest
|
|
problem in your life. Have you had any problems with him since
|
|
then?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
No, not recently, no.
|
|
|
|
Goodman:
|
|
How would the anti-matter reactor act in a car?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
I don't know if I'd use that in a car. But if you wanted
|
|
to, you could use it as a tremendous electrical power.
|
|
|
|
Goodman:
|
|
Which goes back to the beginning of time: We were going
|
|
to have electric cars and were convinced we shouldn't have
|
|
electric cars because we were told we would have to plug
|
|
them in along the way.
|
|
|
|
It wouldn't be necessary -- as they said years ago -- to
|
|
plug in along the way to re-charge the batteries if we had
|
|
something inside to generate --
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Right. Along the same lines, you could make a NUCLEAR-powered
|
|
car, too, running off plutonium.
|
|
|
|
Goodman:
|
|
If we wanted to get involved with this anti-matter-reactor-type
|
|
or mode of travel, we'd have to have Element 115 --
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Right.
|
|
|
|
Goodman:
|
|
-- which you had in your possession at one time.
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Yeah, that's one of the things I got. And that was my
|
|
ace-in-the-hole.
|
|
|
|
Goodman:
|
|
And they got it off you.
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Yeah. We did get it. . . For people that saw the KLAS
|
|
tape, where George Knapp points and says, "It's stored in
|
|
containers similar to this one," well, that WAS one. And
|
|
that's why we put it on there. It was kind of a jab at
|
|
them to say we got it. That was the real ace-in-the-hole
|
|
because if everyone came out and jumped on it and said
|
|
this is all garbage and everything, you know, just to pop
|
|
that out and say, go check this!
|
|
|
|
Goodman:
|
|
Listen guys out there at Area S-4: I know you're listening
|
|
'cause we heard this recently. Why don't you get some of
|
|
that somehow to Bob.
|
|
|
|
Why would that be your ace-in-the-hole?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Because anyone can verify that it's an element that
|
|
doesn't exist.
|
|
|
|
Goodman:
|
|
Boy, that would be wonderful if we could just get that.
|
|
Any of you Mercury Workers up there that want to get
|
|
involved, and say that you do want to get involved, that
|
|
might be a great way to help Bob's cause out and to prove
|
|
his story, behind the story.
|
|
|
|
Bill from Las Vegas:
|
|
Someone previously called in and said that some of the
|
|
Mercury Workers had decided to get behind Lazar. Has Bob
|
|
Lazar ever heard anything in relation to that? Have any
|
|
of the Mercury Workers contacted him, and do any of them
|
|
intend to go public as you have done?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
I don't know what the situation is with those guys, if
|
|
they're for real or not. I've got messages through people
|
|
that someone called once and said there were three of them
|
|
and two of them were captured down at S-4 being tortured.
|
|
And there was another guy out here. And so I really don't
|
|
know what the story is with those guys -- if they're for
|
|
real or not.
|
|
|
|
Bill:
|
|
Have you had any contact from other scientists that you
|
|
had worked with or any other scientists either at S-4
|
|
or any other scientists that don't work there?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Scientists that DON'T work there, yeah, that I worked with
|
|
at Los Alamos, sure. But none at S-4, no.
|
|
|
|
Bill:
|
|
Since you've gone public with this, you've had contact with
|
|
them calling you and wanting to know what's going on,
|
|
etcetera?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Oh yeah. There were a couple that I gave information to
|
|
as we were going along. And they knew what was going on
|
|
already -- through me.
|
|
|
|
Bill:
|
|
If you had other people to back you up and support you, it
|
|
might lend more credibility to what you're saying.
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
That was part of the idea of getting it on the news, and
|
|
I thought hopefully I would shake the tree and have these
|
|
other guys come forward and all be able to corroborate the
|
|
story and also have 115 under my belt, but that whole plan
|
|
backfired.
|
|
|
|
Bill:
|
|
This is for them if they're listening: The rest of us
|
|
simply just don't have the guts to do anything,
|
|
apparently.
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
I wish they did.
|
|
|
|
Bill:
|
|
Anything in the works with regard to any national television
|
|
coverage or news media coverage of any sort?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
There's been lots of talk but nothing definite. There's no
|
|
date set for anything, but there's been a tremendous amount
|
|
of interest, national and international.
|
|
|
|
Bill:
|
|
I heard talk that there's a BIG underground base up there,
|
|
too. Did you know anything about that?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
I've heard that story, but I have no first-hand knowledge of
|
|
it. I haven't been in any tunnels or any underground stuff.
|
|
|
|
Bill:
|
|
If these aliens that have these UFOs are obviously thousands
|
|
of years advanced in technology, it seems, how in the world
|
|
would it seem that the Government would come in possession
|
|
of these UFOs, if in fact the aliens didn't actually want
|
|
them to have them?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
I don't know. They look in very good condition. It doesn't
|
|
look like they were crashed, that they were retrieved somewhere.
|
|
It really looks like they were given. So I don't know; that
|
|
might be the case.
|
|
|
|
Goodman:
|
|
Have you ever given thought to the fact that maybe they were
|
|
invited here and they actually landed here and that's why
|
|
they were here?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Yeah, it's possible.
|
|
|
|
Goodman:
|
|
They could have come right to this area.
|
|
|
|
Jim from Las Vegas:
|
|
On TV, you spoke of observing a demonstration of this
|
|
anti-matter gravity wave controller device. And you
|
|
made a mock-up copy?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
A friend made one, yeah.
|
|
|
|
Jim:
|
|
I heard you speak of bouncing golf balls off of this
|
|
anti-gravity field?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Yeah.
|
|
|
|
Jim:
|
|
And also about the candle, the wax, and the flame
|
|
stood still?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Right.
|
|
|
|
Jim:
|
|
And then the hole that you saw appear --
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
It wasn't a hole; it was a little disk.
|
|
|
|
Jim:
|
|
Under what conditions did you see this demonstrated.
|
|
Elaborate on this. And how large was the force field?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
The force field where the candle was?
|
|
|
|
Jim:
|
|
The force field created by the anti-matter device.
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
It was about a 20-inch radius from the surface of the sphere.
|
|
|
|
Jim:
|
|
Where was this area, just above the device?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Yeah, surrounding the sphere.
|
|
|
|
Jim:
|
|
Did the sphere surround the device?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
No, the sphere sits in the center of the device.
|
|
It's a half-sphere sitting on a plate, and a field
|
|
surrounds the half-sphere.
|
|
|
|
Jim:
|
|
And you just place a candle in there?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
No, no, no. That was a separate demonstration. I'm
|
|
just telling you where the field EXTENDS from.
|
|
|
|
Jim:
|
|
Oh, that's what I'm curious about.
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
No, they tap the field off using a wave guide, off of
|
|
the sphere. And this is a completely different setup, where
|
|
they had a mockup small gravity amplifier, and there were
|
|
three focused into a point, and that area of focus was
|
|
probably nine or ten inches in diameter.
|
|
|
|
Jim:
|
|
They displaced this area or moved this area?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
No, it wasn't displaced; it's just where the field was
|
|
generated.
|
|
|
|
Jim:
|
|
And in there you put the candle?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Right.
|
|
|
|
Jim:
|
|
And that thing can actually bounce golf balls of of it?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
No, no. The golf ball thing, again, had nothing to do with that
|
|
setup. The golf ball thing had something to do with just when
|
|
the reactor was energized, before the wave guide was put on or
|
|
anything. We were just pushing on the field; it was being
|
|
demonstrated to me; and we just bounced a golf ball off the top.
|
|
|
|
Jim:
|
|
And the candle: Does it melt and the flame stand still in
|
|
this DISK that you're talking about?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Well, in the AREA, yeah.
|
|
|
|
Jim:
|
|
You don't have to put it in the center?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Right.
|
|
|
|
Jim:
|
|
Just anywhere in the area?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Well, the actual flame of the candle WAS in the area --
|
|
in the center of the disk.
|
|
|
|
Jim:
|
|
And you saw this happen?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Yeah.
|
|
|
|
Goodman:
|
|
You don't show much emotion.
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Maybe that's my nature, but that's what happens after ten
|
|
o'clock if I'm sitting in one place.
|
|
|
|
Goodman:
|
|
I'm not being derogatory about it. I'm just saying it
|
|
seems like there's no emotion. Some of this stuff that
|
|
you're talking about just gives me chills!
|
|
|
|
We get mail from people at Jet Propulsion Laboratory and
|
|
McDonnell Douglas. Would you like to work for people
|
|
like that?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
I don't know. I'm kind of used to working for myself. I
|
|
don't know about going to work for . . . especially anything
|
|
attached to the Government again, [look with] distrust . . .
|
|
|
|
Goodman:
|
|
Off the air, I asked what would you like to see for the future
|
|
and what could you do for humanity? He said we could talk about
|
|
that, but the main concern right now is how he can support
|
|
himself, and I didn't realize you were having difficulty as far
|
|
as that.
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Oh no, not really difficulty, but it's something always
|
|
to look for.
|
|
|
|
Goodman:
|
|
How could anyone in our listening audience assist you?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Oh, they really can't. There's several things I did
|
|
before I began to get into the program up there. I used
|
|
to race my jet car. I'll probably start that up again
|
|
this season and expand my scientific business, United Nuclear.
|
|
I'll probably increase that into a sales field and things
|
|
like that.
|
|
|
|
Goodman:
|
|
Okay, I just thought we could bring that up just in
|
|
case there was someone out there that could use your
|
|
services. What service do you offer, if someone out
|
|
there could use it?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Someone would have to be fooling around with plutonium,
|
|
and there aren't many people that do that.
|
|
|
|
Goodman:
|
|
Don't bet on that. You never know.
|
|
|
|
Caller:
|
|
Was the craft you worked on one that WE made or was it
|
|
one that was brought here by the aliens from another
|
|
planet?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
This is a craft of alien origin.
|
|
|
|
Caller:
|
|
That was brought here BY them from another planet?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Yeah.
|
|
|
|
Caller:
|
|
Do we know anything about their way of life? Do they
|
|
speak the same language or what?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
I really don't know. I really know very little about
|
|
that. I'd LIKE to know a lot about that. You assume
|
|
that they mass-produce the craft, so there must be
|
|
some sort of factory somewhere. That means there must
|
|
be workers in the factory. Do they have a social life?
|
|
I mean, the questions are endless. I'd like to know
|
|
myself.
|
|
|
|
Caller:
|
|
And if they are here on this planet, WHERE are they?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
That's another good question. You got me. I really
|
|
don't know.
|
|
|
|
Caller:
|
|
If one walked up to my door, what am I supposed to do?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
I don't know. I guess you'll find out really quick if
|
|
they're benevolent or not. But as far as what to
|
|
do, who knows?
|
|
|
|
Goodman:
|
|
Say you're up in Kansas out in a farmland and you see
|
|
this person that looks really far-out, do you think
|
|
they're just going to wait for them to come to the
|
|
door or do you think they're going to shoot and ask
|
|
questions later?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Probably shoot and ask questions later --
|
|
|
|
Goodman:
|
|
That's the problem. Wouldn't that cause all kinds
|
|
of consternation amongst these people if they find
|
|
out one of their people were --
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Well, you have all the stories of the abductee
|
|
reports, about medical examinations; I mean they go
|
|
through a lot of trauma and stuff like that. When it
|
|
came right down to it, if I was confronted by a bunch
|
|
of them -- my car stopped or something to that effect,
|
|
a craft obviously in sight -- yeah, I'd take on
|
|
a hostile attitude really quickly.
|
|
|
|
Goodman:
|
|
Unless you were told differently --
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Right.
|
|
|
|
Goodman:
|
|
-- by the Government: these people don't mean to harm
|
|
you; they're going to be landing in your cities, whatever;
|
|
just [kinda act friendly.]
|
|
|
|
Caller:
|
|
Do you think in the future our President will tell us
|
|
on national television that the UFOs are here, that he
|
|
will make it known to us?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
I doubt it.
|
|
|
|
Caller:
|
|
You don't think he ever will?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
No, I don't think he could muster up enough to do that.
|
|
|
|
Caller:
|
|
One of the presidents in the past was supposed to say
|
|
that if he was elected he was going to tell us all about
|
|
it, but he didn't.
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Carter. That tells you something right there, because
|
|
he never got in and denied it. He just got in and didn't
|
|
say anything.
|
|
|
|
New caller:
|
|
Did you have a badge when you went to work?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Sure did.
|
|
|
|
Caller:
|
|
Did it have any designation on it?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
As far as what?
|
|
|
|
Caller:
|
|
What did it say?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
It's a white badge. It has two -- a light blue and a
|
|
dark blue -- diagonal stripes through it. On the top
|
|
it says MAJ-12. The clearance level is called
|
|
MAJESTIC; I don't know if that was, like I said before
|
|
I don't know if that means anything as far as the
|
|
MAJESTIC-12 documents go, or if they just called that
|
|
clearance that as a nostalgia type of thing. My picture
|
|
was on it -- what else was on it . . .
|
|
|
|
Caller:
|
|
Did it have both MAJ and MAJESTIC -- both words?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
The only place I ever saw MAJESTIC was on Dennis's
|
|
[Mariano] badge, who was my supervisor, and his badge
|
|
looks slightly different. I don't know if it was an
|
|
older kind or what.
|
|
|
|
Caller:
|
|
You mentioned you were doing back-engineering, but
|
|
specifically, what was the breakdown of your duties,
|
|
for example, for one day, with respect to, say, what
|
|
your co-workers were doing? What was the breakdown,
|
|
the division of tasks?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
I have no knowledge of what the other people were doing.
|
|
|
|
Caller:
|
|
But you were not working simply by yourself.
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
No, just with one person.
|
|
|
|
Caller:
|
|
And what was the difference between what you did and
|
|
what he did?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Well, we were basically in the training phase. He was
|
|
getting me up to date on everything, so we never split
|
|
off, and you know, he went and did his thing, and I --
|
|
|
|
Caller:
|
|
Did you ever see an analysis or spectrogram of 115?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Yes.
|
|
|
|
Caller:
|
|
And what did that tell you?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Well, that it was an unknown element. Then we did density
|
|
and weight calculations, which are pretty basic, and of
|
|
course it was too heavy for its physical size. It was
|
|
an X-Ray spectrograph. I don't remember what other
|
|
tests we did to it.
|
|
|
|
Caller:
|
|
How did you know what the times of testing would be to
|
|
go up to the sites to view the object. And do you know
|
|
where it's being tested now?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Dennis told me the testing times. And of course those
|
|
were the times that I relayed to other people, and we
|
|
went out there. What was the other question?
|
|
|
|
Caller:
|
|
Do you know where it's being tested now?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Oh, I have no idea. In fact, if I was them, the last
|
|
place I would test them would be S-4.
|
|
|
|
Another Caller:
|
|
Are you familiar with Alnico 5 magnetic material we
|
|
use here?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Yeah, it's a common -- I never heard the 5
|
|
designation.
|
|
|
|
Caller:
|
|
It's a very dense magnet. Is that close to the
|
|
material of 115?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Oh no, not at all. That's an acronym for aluminum,
|
|
nickel, iron, and cobalt, none of them being anywhere
|
|
near it whatsoever.
|
|
|
|
Caller:
|
|
Are there portholes on that craft?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
At the very top, there is portholes; they are square,
|
|
though.
|
|
|
|
Caller:
|
|
But they must be able to see by TV or. . .?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
I don't know. I just saw from the outside. When I was
|
|
inside, I never -- I don't think I really even bothered
|
|
to look up there; I don't recall.
|
|
|
|
Caller:
|
|
With the gravity generators running, is there thermal
|
|
radiation?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
No, not at all. I was never down on the bottom WHILE
|
|
the gravity generators were running, but the reactor
|
|
itself -- there's no thermal radiation whatsoever. That
|
|
was one of the really shocking things because that
|
|
violates the first law of thermodynamics.
|
|
|
|
Caller:
|
|
The atomic weight of the 115 material: Is that heavier?
|
|
We know the 115 atomic weight would be different from the
|
|
gravitational weight. Is the gravitational weight of
|
|
that material very heavy?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Yeah.
|
|
|
|
Caller:
|
|
How does that stuff break off? Do you saw it or does it
|
|
grind up. How do you get to test grams or whatever it is?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
I don't know. I really don't know how that's machined into
|
|
it. I know it is machined, but I don't know if there's
|
|
any special procedures employed.
|
|
|
|
Caller:
|
|
Does it melt?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
I'm sure it does. And just historically, all heavy elements
|
|
are also toxic. I imagine it is a very toxic thing. What
|
|
else? If you use the standard designations as started at
|
|
103, its name would be "unuspentium [sp?]." Its symbol --
|
|
if it's going to be plugged into the periodic chart -- would
|
|
be UUP. In fact. I have a friend that gave it kind of a cute
|
|
name; he calls it "unobtainium."
|
|
|
|
Caller:
|
|
In your wildest dreams, do you think you would be able to
|
|
create any of this stuff on earth -- in order to do the same
|
|
thing?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
In fact, I'm in the process of fabricating the gravity
|
|
amplifier, but then I'm at a tremendous shortage for power.
|
|
So yeah, I have even tried to do that stuff on my own.
|
|
|
|
Caller:
|
|
Is there any electronics as we know it -- chips or
|
|
transitors?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
No, nothing like that. Because of the tremendous power
|
|
involved, too, there was no direct connection between
|
|
the gravity amplifiers and the reactor itself.
|
|
|
|
Caller:
|
|
Are the wave guides similar to what we use with
|
|
microwaves?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Very similar.
|
|
|
|
Goodman:
|
|
You mentioned all heavy metals are toxic?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Yeah, they seem to be. Lead, radium, plutonium . . .
|
|
|
|
Goodman:
|
|
Element 115?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
You would just assume it would be toxic.
|
|
|
|
Caller:
|
|
Is Sector 4 also called Papoose Dry Lake Bed?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Yeah.
|
|
|
|
Caller:
|
|
Is it also in a place called Emigrant Valley?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Right. You can see Papoose Dry Lake from out of the
|
|
hangar doors.
|
|
|
|
Caller:
|
|
In regard to the long-range method of travel, isn't
|
|
a propulsion unit the wrong idea? I feel this device
|
|
is creating a situation where it is diminishing or removing
|
|
the localized gravitational field, and long-distance body
|
|
that they're heading toward is actually PULLING the vehicle
|
|
rather than it being pushed. Am I correct in this?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
The vehicle is not being pushed. But being pulled implies
|
|
it's being pulled by something externally: it's pulling
|
|
something else to IT. IT's creating the gravitational
|
|
field.
|
|
|
|
Caller:
|
|
Is there any relation to the monopoles which [scientists]
|
|
have been looking for?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Well, they've been looking for the monopole magnet.
|
|
But then this [the UFO force] is a gravitational force.
|
|
|
|
Caller:
|
|
Different things but exhibiting similar effects?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Right.
|
|
|
|
Caller:
|
|
Last night I saw a four-door Japanese car. On the
|
|
right-side, rear, passenger door there were three
|
|
9mm bullet holes, about a 12-inch group. Is that
|
|
the vehicle that was shot at?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
No. That's similar to my car, but they missed me.
|
|
|
|
New Caller:
|
|
Do we give something in exchange for all this information
|
|
they're giving us?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
I really don't know. I don't know what went on behind
|
|
the scenes as far as how we got the technology.
|
|
|
|
Caller:
|
|
Did they give us the 115 in large quantities?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Yeah, 500 pounds is what I'm told. The way I've
|
|
seen it, it comes in little thin disks close to the
|
|
size of a half dollar.
|
|
|
|
Caller:
|
|
Did you ever own any, or -- ?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Yeah.
|
|
|
|
Caller:
|
|
What happened to it?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
It's gone. It was stolen out of my house along with
|
|
some other stuff that I got from there.
|
|
|
|
Caller:
|
|
[By] the Government?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
That's what I assume; I HOPE it's in their hands;
|
|
I'd hate it to be in . . . A few people did know
|
|
about it -- some UFO-related people -- and I'd hate
|
|
for unexperienced people to be in possession of
|
|
the stuff.
|
|
|
|
But yeah, that was taken. We did get some film of
|
|
it and some film of it doing some really unusual
|
|
things.
|
|
|
|
Caller:
|
|
How did you get hired at Area 51?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
I was referred by a well-known physicist to talk to
|
|
someone. And I really don't want to go all into that
|
|
because then I'm pointing fingers at specific people.
|
|
|
|
Caller:
|
|
Were everyone's mouths shut where you worked?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Yeah, everyone wouldn't let you talk, and it wasn't a
|
|
really happy environment. Everyone was just into what
|
|
they were doing and that was it.
|
|
|
|
New Caller:
|
|
What year were you working up there?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Last year.
|
|
|
|
Caller:
|
|
I heard from someone I know that's a pretty good
|
|
source that a small amount of plutonium, like a picogram,
|
|
might be good for you. Is that true?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
No, not at all.
|
|
|
|
Goodman:
|
|
What would you use plutonium for?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
To die. In the lungs, it's almost immediate lung cancer.
|
|
It's toxic in itself. The body has a tough time getting
|
|
rid of it. It's just bad news.
|
|
|
|
Goodman:
|
|
And you're messing with it.
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
I don't have any at my house.
|
|
|
|
Goodman:
|
|
You said that's part of what you're working on.
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Electronic equipment to detect plutonium: They're
|
|
called alpha radiation detectors or air proportional
|
|
detectors.
|
|
|
|
Goodman:
|
|
Why do you want to detect the plutonium?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
They use them to screen personnel that are leaving an
|
|
area that's been plutonium contaminated; they check
|
|
equipment for plutonium contamination; so on and so
|
|
forth.
|
|
|
|
Goodman:
|
|
This is as bad as radiation?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Plutonium does produce radiation.
|
|
|
|
Goodman:
|
|
So it's as bad as when they've been clearing the people
|
|
in nuclear power plants and stuff like this?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Yeah.
|
|
|
|
Goodman:
|
|
And you're devising a device that's going to be
|
|
easier?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
No, our device is just less expensive.
|
|
|
|
Caller:
|
|
Can you list your credentials?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
As far as what?
|
|
|
|
Caller:
|
|
Schooling, degrees.
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
I have two masters degrees; one's in physics; one's in
|
|
electronics. I wrote my thesis on MHD, which is
|
|
magnetohydrodynamics.
|
|
|
|
I worked at Los Alamos for a few years as a technician
|
|
and then as a physicist in the Polarized Proton Section,
|
|
dealing with the accelerator there.
|
|
|
|
I was hired at S-4 as a senior staff physicist to work on
|
|
gravitational propulsion systems and whatnot associated with
|
|
those crafts.
|
|
|
|
Caller:
|
|
What school did you go to?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
I'd rather not say, the reason being I am currently
|
|
working with them under contract, and I'm having enough trouble
|
|
with this as it is.
|
|
|
|
Caller:
|
|
Why did you leave the Groom Lake project?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
I don't want to go into that either. That's a big,
|
|
long complicated story. It gets into my personal life,
|
|
too, and I don't want to get into that.
|
|
|
|
Caller:
|
|
Have there been any attempts made on your life?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Yeah.
|
|
|
|
Caller:
|
|
When was the last one?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
There was only one direct one. I really don't remember
|
|
when that was, maybe six, eight months ago, something like
|
|
that. Just being shot at getting out on the freeway.
|
|
|
|
Caller:
|
|
Did another car drive by and shoot you?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Yeah.
|
|
|
|
Caller:
|
|
Are there any weapons on board the alien craft?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Not that I know of. Of course, the gravity generators
|
|
themselves can be focused, and I imagine that can be
|
|
used as a weapon.
|
|
|
|
Caller:
|
|
How many alien people do they hold?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
I don't know. How many people can you fit in a car?
|
|
I imagine if there's a bunch standing up, you can pack
|
|
them in there.
|
|
|
|
Caller:
|
|
Is Element 115 an extraterrestrial material?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Yes, definitely.
|
|
|
|
Caller:
|
|
How do you suppose the S-4 project came to acquire
|
|
500 pounds if it's not from this world?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
I would imagine it came on one of the craft.
|
|
|
|
Caller:
|
|
Extra fuel, huh?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Maybe.
|
|
|
|
Caller:
|
|
How close can a civilian get to Area 51 or Emigrant
|
|
Valley? What is security like? How many guards and
|
|
so forth?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
I think the closest you can get is probably about 10 miles,
|
|
and then you get a mountain between you and them.
|
|
|
|
Caller:
|
|
A lot of patrols?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Oh yeah.
|
|
|
|
Goodman:
|
|
Off the air, you said you traveled one time on hydrogen
|
|
in your car.
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Yeah, I had a 1978 TransAm I converted to run on hydrogen.
|
|
|
|
Goodman:
|
|
We were talking about this one night as a new fuel for
|
|
transportation. Is that more dangerous than gasoline?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
It depends how it's stored. There's ways you can do it.
|
|
|
|
You can store it as a gas, compressed in a cylinder where,
|
|
yeah, it's dangerous and explosive.
|
|
|
|
You can store it as a liquid -- cryogenic liquid --
|
|
where it's also dangerous and explosive.
|
|
|
|
Or you can also store it in a hydride [sp], a chemical
|
|
that absorbs hydrogen like a sponge absorbs water. When
|
|
it's in that storage state, it's really not flammable.
|
|
You heat the chemical using the radiator water, or electrically,
|
|
or the exhaust gas to produce the hydrogen, and there's only
|
|
a small amount at a time ever produced. And in that instance
|
|
it's a lot safer than gasoline, and that's the method I use.
|
|
|
|
Goodman:
|
|
In other words, we could put these in automobiles?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Absolutely, definitely. The only exhaust is water vapor --
|
|
essentially steam and very little oxides.
|
|
|
|
Goodman:
|
|
Where do we get hydrogen?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
The most common place is from water. When you pass electricity
|
|
through water, you break down the bonds and wind up with oxygen
|
|
and hydrogen.
|
|
|
|
Goodman:
|
|
What could we be charged if we pulled up to a tank and asked
|
|
for some water?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
It takes energy to separate the water back into its molecular
|
|
state, or atomic state rather.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Goodman:
|
|
But forgetting what the components are inside the car, if
|
|
a driver were to drive up, they would just have to put water
|
|
into this particular unit? Could they make it that simple?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
You could make it that simple, yes.
|
|
|
|
Goodman:
|
|
Has this been known for years in the scientific field?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
There's been plenty of cars that have been made to run on
|
|
hydrogen. In fact one state somewhere has their entire postal
|
|
fleet with little jeeps that run on hydrogen. There's a
|
|
company called Billings Energy that does the conversions.
|
|
|
|
Goodman:
|
|
Why do you think it's not being made readily available to us?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
There's probably lots of reasons. You're looking at the oil
|
|
companies. . .
|
|
|
|
Goodman:
|
|
Okay. That's what I wanted to get to.
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
But you can always point your finger at them for anything.
|
|
|
|
Goodman:
|
|
But I mean, it's just being held back from us even though it
|
|
could be here.
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
But you've got the problem of availability, too, if you're
|
|
going to just use gaseous hydrogen.
|
|
|
|
Goodman:
|
|
What would it take to change our current motor in a car to
|
|
accept this?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Not very much at all. It's very similar to a propane
|
|
conversion.
|
|
|
|
Goodman:
|
|
Have you heard from Mr. Teller at all?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
No.
|
|
|
|
Goodman:
|
|
Not one word? In other words, he's done nothing at all?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
No.
|
|
|
|
Goodman:
|
|
You said we're nowhere near being able to have an
|
|
anti-matter reactor?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
No, not at all. The first thing we'll come up with
|
|
when we toy with that some more is -- and there's already
|
|
been talk of it -- is an anti-matter weapon. Unfortunately,
|
|
that's the easiest thing to produce. First we'll see that
|
|
before we'll see potential useful uses.
|
|
|
|
Goodman:
|
|
I was talking to Bob Lazar off the air, and Bob is a jet
|
|
car driver. That's how he relaxes, doing 350 miles per hour.
|
|
|
|
Roger:
|
|
Are the nine disks quite different in appearance?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Yeah, they're all completely different in appearance.
|
|
|
|
Roger:
|
|
Are they then perhaps from different star systems?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Could be.
|
|
|
|
Roger:
|
|
You said the one you looked at, the Sport Model, was from
|
|
Reticulum, right?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
That's what I READ.
|
|
|
|
Roger:
|
|
So that has the gravity propulsion system. But then some
|
|
of the others may have some other type of propulsion system?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
I was told that the reactors are all similar in them [the crafts],
|
|
and from that I just assume that the propulsion system is the
|
|
same. But it is possible that the other ones have different
|
|
propulsion systems, yeah.
|
|
|
|
Roger:
|
|
How many light years from Earth to Reticulum?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
32, 33, 34, somewhere around there.
|
|
|
|
Roger:
|
|
They must get away from Earth before they amplify these
|
|
gravitational systems, do they not?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
They don't HAVE to, but it has to be a line of sight where
|
|
they can move to.
|
|
|
|
Roger:
|
|
In other words, it wouldn't have any effect on the Earth even
|
|
though it were close to it when they turned it on?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
No.
|
|
|
|
Roger:
|
|
Where do the aliens fit into religion? They must say
|
|
something about it. I heard that they had a [bearing]
|
|
on us through religion, perhaps through colonization.
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
I've read some about that. You know, I don't want to
|
|
go into that because that's going to upset everybody.
|
|
|
|
Caller:
|
|
What is the top speed of the craft?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
It's tough to say a top speed because to say speed you have
|
|
to compare distance and time. And when you're screwing
|
|
around with time and distorting it, you can no longer judge
|
|
a velocity. They're not traveling in a linear mode where they
|
|
just fly and cover a certain distance in a certain time.
|
|
That's the real definition of speed. They're bending and
|
|
distorting space and then essentially snapping it back with
|
|
the craft, so the distances they can travel are phenomenal --
|
|
in little or no time. So speed has little bearing.
|
|
|
|
Caller:
|
|
Is the laser part of their technology or their flying speed?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
No, I haven't seen anything along that line.
|
|
|
|
Caller:
|
|
Is Rockwell involved with that?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Not that I've seen.
|
|
|
|
Pistol:
|
|
You've mentioned anti-gravity generator and anti-matter
|
|
generator. Are they different?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
It's not a gravity generator; it's a gravity amplifier. I
|
|
get tongue-twisted all too often.
|
|
|
|
The anti-matter reactor provides the power for the craft and
|
|
the basic low-amplitude gravitational wave, which is too low
|
|
of an amplitude to do anything. It's piped into the gravity
|
|
amplifiers, which are found at the bottom of the craft.
|
|
There it's amplified into an extremely powerful wave, and
|
|
that's what the craft is flown on. But there is an anti-matter
|
|
reactor: that's what provides the power.
|
|
|
|
Roger Nelson, KBAY-Radio San Francisco announcer:
|
|
Last time I asked Bob Lazar about the hyper-light propulsion
|
|
systems he had seen, he said the crafts have hyper-light
|
|
capabilities -- beyond the speed of light. Do you know
|
|
anyone in our government or who worked on the craft who
|
|
might be from Earth who has taken those craft and flown
|
|
past the speed of light to other galaxies?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
I don't, and I don't know if they have been used for that.
|
|
|
|
Nelson:
|
|
Is there any way to find how many of our guys on particular
|
|
programs have gone to space, what they're learning, exactly
|
|
where they are now, and whether or not there's any tie-in
|
|
with the Alternative Three Escape-Earth Plan that supposedly the
|
|
Government leaders are stirring up now. Is there any place
|
|
that you know of that this information can be found?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
I imagine, if any of that is in fact true, it would be found in
|
|
the midst of S-4 or 51 down there. But how to contact those guys
|
|
and actually get them to talk is a feat not yet attained.
|
|
|
|
Nelson:
|
|
What is it you are now doing now that they have cut you off
|
|
at the knees?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
I do other scientific research and produce, design, and
|
|
repair alpha radiation detection equipment.
|
|
|
|
Nelson:
|
|
A number of copies of these broadcasts and the show on
|
|
Channel 8 and all the other stuff has been getting around,
|
|
perhaps even internationally. Has anybody bothered you since
|
|
you went public?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Other than the sily little things that have been done, no,
|
|
nothing, nothing big to be concerned about.
|
|
|
|
Nelson:
|
|
Are we going to see you at any of these things like the
|
|
January 7th conference ["An Evening With Bill Cooper," Showboat
|
|
Hotel Sports Pavilion, Las Vegas, Nevada, 5:00 p.m. - 8:00 p.m.,
|
|
$15 per person], or other symposiums in the future?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
I don't think so, no.
|
|
|
|
Nelson:
|
|
Well look, I think you're a very brave man. With that kind of
|
|
an onus on your head, it takes a lot of courage to keep coming
|
|
back to the airwaves. I stand up and cheer as one.
|
|
|
|
Caller:
|
|
How do your magnetohydrodynamics studies relate to the hot
|
|
spots in the earth's magnetic flux, and does that relate to the
|
|
deep-hole theory, the Soviet Union's plan?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
I don't know what the Soviet Union's plan was. I looked at
|
|
it from a power point of view, as producing on a large scale
|
|
plasma-generated energy in a power-plant situation, or producing
|
|
something that would retrofit -- like a coal-fired plant that
|
|
has a lot of waste heat and high-energy plasma.
|
|
|
|
Caller:
|
|
The question is, are you experimenting using the earth's flux?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
No. There's stand-alone high-energy magnets that I use.
|
|
|
|
Caller:
|
|
What is the atomic weight of 115?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
I hate even to guess. I know it because we've written it down
|
|
because we've calculated it, but I really don't remember.
|
|
|
|
Caller:
|
|
Can you give us a ballpark?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
No, 'cause I'd be wrong! Just like if I gave a ballpark on the
|
|
gravitational wave frequency -- and that's really bugging the hell
|
|
out of me.
|
|
|
|
There were three things, as a matter of fact, that for some reason
|
|
I've developed a mental block on. I'll have to call Billy, and
|
|
then he can announce it on the air. I'll just call him and then
|
|
he can relay it to everyone.
|
|
|
|
New Caller:
|
|
I'd like to stand up and cheer for Bob Lazar! It does take a
|
|
lot of courage, and it's about time somebody stepped forward with
|
|
some information that's being kept from us for so long.
|
|
|
|
How long do you think it took them to make their journey here,
|
|
using their methods of propulsion?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
An extremely short time. I'd hesitate to say, but I don't think
|
|
you're even looking at days.
|
|
|
|
Caller:
|
|
Is that because of this gravity lines-of-force thing or because
|
|
time stands still for them and it really does take a long time
|
|
but they don't know it because time stands still?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
No, they're actually traveling almost IN-BETWEEN time because
|
|
of the way that they distort time and space. So that they're
|
|
traveling vast distances without the incrementation of time.
|
|
The time would be very, very little. Days is probably --
|
|
I'm way off saying that, too. But I hate to say something
|
|
and be really far off.
|
|
|
|
Caller:
|
|
Could these aliens be robots and not actually be native beings
|
|
from that galaxy?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
I imagine it's possible. Who knows what actually flew the
|
|
craft, whether or not aliens have ever been in Area S-4
|
|
down there, but it's possible that some automated creature
|
|
flew them. Who knows?
|
|
|
|
Goodman:
|
|
You made a statement when he asked how long it took them
|
|
to get here, and when you were inside the spacecraft itself
|
|
you didn't see any sleeping quarters. So perhaps they just
|
|
start in the morning and they're here in the afternoon;
|
|
it's that simple as far as OUR time goes.
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
If it even takes that long.
|
|
|
|
Barbara:
|
|
When your hypnotherapist, Layne Keck, talked on the air
|
|
about you, did you request that?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
That he talk about me?
|
|
|
|
Barbara:
|
|
Uh huh.
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
No, George Knapp requested that, and then Layne called me to
|
|
find out if it would be okay, and I said yeah, go ahead.
|
|
|
|
Barbara:
|
|
Well, I called the office and that was what I was told,
|
|
and it didn't seem quite --
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
That I requested Layne to go on? No.
|
|
|
|
Barbara:
|
|
That's what the person in the office said.
|
|
|
|
How was your experience there with him? How did you feel
|
|
about your experience?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
As far as what? How I got along with Layne?
|
|
|
|
Barbara:
|
|
No. As far as how you felt comfortable with going back
|
|
to some unpleasant experiences.
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
The emotions came up when you're under hypnosis, and that
|
|
part wasn't exactly pleasant.
|
|
|
|
Barbara:
|
|
How do you feel about it today?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
I feel better. At the time, it wasn't very pleasant.
|
|
But in general, just being under hypnosis is a really
|
|
good feeling.
|
|
|
|
Barbara:
|
|
You have the videotape of that?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Yeah.
|
|
|
|
Barbara:
|
|
It's in your possession?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
I don't want to say where it is, but I know where it is.
|
|
|
|
Barbara:
|
|
I'm going to be doing that because I was with him. So for
|
|
my own personal information, I just wanted to do that,
|
|
because I have good aliens, bad aliens, you know, it runs
|
|
in my family. And there's an extreme reason why I'm going to
|
|
be doing this, so I wanted to clarify that and try to
|
|
make myself . . .Although I can do it on my own, I won't
|
|
go deeper than a certain point.
|
|
|
|
New Caller:
|
|
Is there any limit on the distance a spaceship can travel.
|
|
Can it actually travel out of our galaxy to the Andromeda
|
|
galaxy? How far can 223 grams of Element 115 take you?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
I really don't know. From what I understand, the actual
|
|
consumption of the element is very low; I imagine it is
|
|
possible with enough [junk] made to travel to another galaxy.
|
|
|
|
Caller:
|
|
I assume the gravity wave is more powerful than the
|
|
gamma wave, correct?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Than the GAMMA wave?
|
|
|
|
Caller:
|
|
Or the spectral wave? What's the limit on light waves
|
|
with the 10 billion light years or something -- how far light
|
|
can travel?
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
A limit as far as what? It depends on the interaction:
|
|
the gravitational fields the beam passes through, the
|
|
photons pass through, and so on and so forth, so there's
|
|
no real limit at true dead space.
|
|
|
|
As I said last time, and only one person took advantage
|
|
of it, if anyone does have any questions they want to ask
|
|
me, they can write in care of this station. A person called
|
|
earlier and wanted a copy of that newspaper article. I
|
|
have no problem in copying that and sending it to him.
|
|
So just write to the station, whatever the address is.
|
|
|
|
=================================================================
|
|
**********************************************
|
|
* THE U.F.O. BBS - http://www.ufobbs.com/ufo *
|
|
********************************************** |