348 lines
14 KiB
Plaintext
348 lines
14 KiB
Plaintext
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SUBJECT: ROBERT SWAN FILE: UFO2031
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===========================================================================
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The following file contains selected excerpts from phone
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conversations I had with Robert Swan during the month of December.
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Bill Cooper both supplied me with his name, whereabouts, and "code"
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by which Robert Swan was to know that it was okay to divulge information
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to me regarding his knowledge of what Bill Cooper had discussed with him.
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As Bill Cooper did not have Swan's phone number, I had to find
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that out for myself. Additionally, Bill has asked that I not print Swan's address, as he does not want this individual "harassed". For those who
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are serious about getting to the truth of the matter, they will know how
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to find this individual.
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There will be no commentary from myself, as the file should
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speak for itself. Anything in [ ] brackets will represent clarification
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of speech where necessary. Although several calls were made to Robert
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Swan, I have only included the most revelant material from 2 of them here.
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The purpose of my communicating with Robert Swan was to verify
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whether or not Bill Cooper had indeed shown him certain UFO-related
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documents (ie. Project Aquarius papers) back in 1972.
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-Tom Mickus 1/22/89
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Note: "........" indicates conversation not reproduced here.
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Selected Excerpts from Phone Conversation (A) (WITHOUT KNOWING "CODE")
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
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........
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<MICKUS> "Of course you don't know me. I've been speaking with
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Bill Cooper".
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<SWAN> "Un-huh."
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<MICKUS> "And you knew him from a while back?"
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<SWAN> "Yes."
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........
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<MICKUS> "There's one thing I wanted to ask you. Bill has decided to
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go public with all he knows, and has been getting from his
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sources; about what he knows about the U.S. gov't cover-up..."
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<SWAN> "Un-huh."
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<MICKUS> "...with UFOs, that type of thing..."
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<SWAN> "Un-huh."
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<MICKUS> "...and as one of the coroborating sources, he had mentioned
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your name to myself, and one other person as far as I know,
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about both of you seeing an Aquarius telex document back in
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'72. And I just wanted to find out, get confirmation from
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youf that that was true, that the content in there was what
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Bill has reproduced."
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<SWAN> "You know I can't um...I can't verify that. I don't recall
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that."
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<MICKUS> "So you don't remember ever seeing anything like that?"
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<SWAN> "No. I may have. But off the top [of my head], you know thats
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been years and years. And I don't, I don't at the present time
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remember...you know if I remember the circumstances or
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something...if you could let me know what the circumstances
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were, then I could piece it back together. To all of a
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sudden to try and remember something like that... I mean,
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there's all kinds of discussions that we've had in the past,
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lengthy...and so on."
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<MICKUS> "You mean related to this?"
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<SWAN> "Ahh, well there was a lot of stuff just as far as the carriers
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[aircraft] and stuff like that. But..."
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<MICKUS> "Just dealing with the military though?"
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<SWAN> "Yeah. ...but not anything that... He was always very above-board
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with stuff. As far as classified stuff, when I was on the...I
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think he was on the Enterprise...I don't remember, but I was on
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board one time, and we were going through...he was showing me
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around and stuff, and there was areas that he had access to that
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naturally I wouldn't. I know his knowledge is definitely there."
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<MICKUS> "So you can attest to that he has, or did have this, high
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security rating that would give him access to..."
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<SWAN> "Oh yeah. Sh*t yeah.
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<MICKUS> "...cause he's come out and said that he's got 4 different
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military intelligence sources."
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<SWAN> "Right. Well he was in the Air Force, the Navy... anyway,
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right now I can't really recall the...if I remember the
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circumstances maybe I could piece it back together...I'll
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think about it...but as far as the UFO stuff, that...that
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was pretty much hearsay from what was going on on the
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carriers and stuff."
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<MICKUS> "You mean from Bill, or from other people?"
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<SWAN> "From Bill, yeah."
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<MICKUS> "Okay, this is the one thing he mentioned. The year was 1972
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and it was an Aquarius-telex. Now I imagine if you did see
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this thing, it would probably stick in your mind..."
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<SWAN> "Yeah..."
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<MICKUS> "you know, about exchange of technology between Alien groups,
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Project Plato, then there was a Project Sigma about establishing
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communications, Project Redlight to test fly Alien aircraft,
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then there was the Project Snowbird to cover that up, and that
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was about all that was in the Aquarius document."
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<SWAN> "Yeah."
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<MICKUS> "But that doesn't ring a bell?"
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<SWAN> "No it doesn't."
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........
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<MICKUS> "But you say it could be true though?"
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<SWAN> "Oh yeah, it could be true, sure. He was really into that.
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You know, I mean as far as... yeah he was really interested
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in that kind of sh*t. But I don't recall seeing that. And
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like you said, if I had, it probably would stick in my mind.
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However, if I remember the circumstances, like I said, maybe
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I could piece it back together, but right now..."
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<MICKUS> "About Bill's involvement, would you say that he's pretty
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level-headed about it? Was he talking about it all the time?"
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<SWAN> "No, I'd say he was pretty level headed about it."
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........
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<SWAN> "Well he certainly had access to a lot of information. I'm
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aware of that."
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........
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<SWAN> "Basically what I had gathered from him is on the space shots
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and so on, from tracking and so on...the sightings that have
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been seen from astronauts in space, you know, communications
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on board...just the sightings and so on. And I think thats
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what got his interest going on the thing. Navigation, he was
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a navigator I believe, and so he had all that front-line
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communication stuff going."
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<MICKUS> "I'm just curious, but is he bound by any,...I know there
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are various regulations and this type of thing. But
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conceivably could he be in any hot water over..."
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<SWAN> "I would say so. Right off the top [of my head]". He's no
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longer in the military is he?
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<MICKUS> "No..."
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........
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=====================================================================
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Selected Excerpts from Phone Conversation (B) (WITH "CODE" THIS TIME)
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---------------------------------------------------------------------
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........
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<MICKUS> "The reason why Bill doesn't want you to get in touch with
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him in the immediate interim, is because he has to get
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independent verification that he did see these particular
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documents so many years ago. Now you personally haven't
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spoken with him, or corresponded for how long would you
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say?"
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<SWAN> "Twelve, thirteen years."
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........
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<MICKUS> "...the night before he was to get married, he apparently
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told you "on the eve of his wedding", that was to be the
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code or whatever,...that you originally weren't supposed
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to tell anyone about this because it was just confidential
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between both of you. But he was telling me about when he
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had his house up on Aeia Heights Dr....[Bill Said] " I
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lived only a few houses below him, it was at night, we
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had a few drinks, I showed him the documents and gave him
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a copy of it. And we talked for about an hour about it.
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I asked him to never to discuss it with anyone as it was
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Top Secret. And then we never discussed it again after
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that."
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<SWAN> "Right."
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<MICKUS> "So do you remember that?"
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<SWAN> "I remember something to that effect, yup."
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<MICKUS> "And he said in the document, the coversheet said Majesty,
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it had Sigma, Redlight, Snowbird, Luna, Delta, NRO, Pluto,
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Plato, Pounce and a description of the aliens and other
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info in it..."
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.......
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<SWAN> "There's been lots of discussion and stuff, but as far as
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anything other than like you just said...really minor
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momentarily talking about...that's all well and good. But
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as far as going into depth and knowing exactly what all that
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stuff is, I don't."
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<MICKUS> "He said he did give you a copy of something."
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<SWAN> "You know, I don't recall that. He possibly could have. The
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instance [of the meeting] I remember that occuring. But I
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don't remember him giving me a copy of anything because of
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his involvement with...he was with CINCPACFLT then, and I
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don't really... He might have shown me that, but I don't...
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he never gave me a copy of it that I recall. If he had of,
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I would have definitely had it stashed some place, and
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probably would have lost it by now anyway."
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<MICKUS> "But theoretically it could be buried away somewhere in
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your old records?"
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<SWAN> "I've been through stuff over the last ten - fifteen years,
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and I a haven't come across it. But there's been stuff that
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Bill's shown me on UFO stuff so..."
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........
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<MICKUS> "...is there anything that you can specifically remember
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that can be shown... Basically what I'm trying to determine
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is; Yes, you did see this particular document. Now I want
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to know that besides the fact that; Yes, you and Bill were
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talking about the subject of...and..., this type of thing."
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<SWAN> "We were talking about the subject of UFOs quite a bit, and
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his interest in them and all that. As far as all of the stuff
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that was Top Secret, whatever, there was stuff that he had
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told me and that he couldn't say anything about, and so...
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And as far as getting a copy of some document, I don't
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really recall that, I may have seen it...but... And that
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period right before his wedding and all that, I remember
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that quite well."
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<MICKUS> "So if I take you back to that specific evening on Aeia
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Heights, and you are both talking over drinks, and Bill
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comes out and shows you this one set of documents. Do
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you not specifically recall that? Because that is
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important."
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<SWAN> "I specifically recall him showing me something, but as
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far as him giving me a copy, I don't recall."
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<MICKUS> "Well, forget about the copy part..."
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<SWAN> "As far as the exact Project and all of that, I can't
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really...if there was something in court or something
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and they would say, 'positively do you remember reading
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blah blah blah', and honestly I cannot."
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<MICKUS> "So how would you characterize those documents? If you
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were to put it into your own sentence as to what he
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showed you, what would you say?"
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<SWAN> "Right off the top,\ 'He showed me some papers with a
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bunch of stuff on it.' But as far as what it was, as
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far as what the Projects and stuff that you were
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talking about...that doesn't ring a bell to me."
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<MICKUS> "Like I said before, I don't want to involve you..."
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<SWAN> "Hey I'll tell you something, if I remembered, and if
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I had a copy of it, I wouldn't hesitate to get involved.
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I could careless about...where a person hangs out. I'm
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not squeamish in any ways, about what you're talking
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about, all kinds of supernatural stuff. If I had some
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knowledge of it, and I saw it...hell yeah man, I would
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get right into it."
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<MICKUS> "Actually, I was thinking more of the...you know
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theoretically what some intelligence service could do
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to a person who... I thought that maybe you might not
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want to talk for that reason."
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<SWAN> "No no. After I talked with you the other time, I kinda
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gone back and re-lived conversations and stuff. As far
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as the contents of the document you are talking about...
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I know that we discussed a bunch of stuff as far as
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different things, but I don't know anything about the
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documents."
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<MICKUS> "Do you remember discussing events connected with...
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Now, some of those Project names do they ring a bell
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at all? Or discussion of UFOs? Do you remember that
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as being central to what you were discussing, as
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opposed to just military..."
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<SWAN> "Well, if I got into the particulars of the different
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operations or something, I would probably remember what
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was said. As far as the code names and all of that kind
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of stuff, they really don't mean anything to me. As far
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as some of the things that were going on, I recall
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discussions on that. Its trying to piece together stuff
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that far back, and at that point in time it was fascinating
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to what was going on, but I didn't have any extreme
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interest in it."
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<MICKUS> "Would you say, thinking back to that time...that Yes, the
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impression left is that this stuff that you saw dealt with
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UFOs. Was that..."
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<SWAN> "Oh yeah."
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<MICKUS> "That's clear then, right?"
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<SWAN> "Oh yeah."
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<MICKUS> "You're just talking specifics now. And although you may
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not remember what was on the pages, whatever, can you
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think back in your mind, and actually see Bill passing
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something over for you to look at...or referring to
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something in front of him, specific documents."
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<SWAN> "Yeah, I remember that. I remember that, but its like I said,
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as far as the contents and so on, that was just discussed.
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As far as a copy, I don't recall getting one."
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.......
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========================================================================
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[ - End of File - ]
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**********************************************
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* THE U.F.O. BBS - http://www.ufobbs.com/ufo *
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**********************************************
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