462 lines
23 KiB
Plaintext
462 lines
23 KiB
Plaintext
SUBJECT: MSG THREADS FROM JIM SPEISER FILE: UFO1552
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PSI-NET
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Category 3, Topic 8
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Message 31 Fri Nov 22, 1991
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J.SPEISER [Jim] at 01:01 EST
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An issue of UFO Magazine dealt harshly with the book. They quoted several
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people, including Seymour Hirsch, as saying that they had been broadly
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misinterpreted by Blum.
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This from a magazine that had, a year previously, touted the then- upcoming
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book as possibly a major breakthrough. Is there a glimmer of hope for UFO
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buffs being somewhat objective after all?
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Bubba: I saw Blum on Oprah Winfrey, and when he was challenged on some basic
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facts, his response equated to, "Picky, picky, picky." They didn't seem to be
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trivial facts to me.
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A point brought out by Don Schmitt of CUFOS on that program weighs heavily.
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Blum said that the "UFO Working Group" concentrated a lot of energy on
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Elmwood, WI., an area that had seen its share of sightings. But such a group
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would gain nothing by studying such a rash of sightings, since they were long
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since over with. Rather, they would concentrate on current "hotspots" such as
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Hudson Valley, which was in full swing at the time.
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Revenant:
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RE: Coverups are just someone covering their butt for mistakes...
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the unfortunate thing here is that I cannot provide any real counter-
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examples, because to do so I would need to have certain knowledge of real
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government cover-ups, and if I did, then you could say it wasn't very well
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covered up if I know about it. If pressed, I could probably come up with a
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couple of examples of cover-ups that did last a good long time, that weren't
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simply "mistakes". Lemme think on it.
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RE: Project Aquarius...I have a few files on that, including a document that
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purports to be THE Aquarius Document. I shall upload it ASAP.
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RE: Wagers....Agree that they are sometimes necessary. If they seem childish,
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then what about those who claim that they have these powers, but said powers
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cannot be demonstrated in front of a skeptic or under controlled conditions?
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It is this kind of childishness that I think necessitates the wagers.
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RE: MJ-12 duping ufologists: There were elements to the documents that were
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fairly interesting at first glance, so I can't blame anyone for becoming
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enamored of them. But let's not forget that it was PRO-ufologists who cast the
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first stone at them, notably Barry Greenwood. You can fool some ufologists
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some of the time....
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Jim
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PSI-NET
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Category 2, Topic 3
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Message 34 Tue Nov 26, 1991
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J.SPEISER [Jim] at 12:58 EST
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TW:
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This story has its genesis in one Dr. Scott Corder, a FORMERLY licensed
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physician in a town near Russell, KS. The whole thing starts off innocently
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enough as a "routine" abduction research project. Dr. Corder, a MUFON State
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Section Director, called Walt Andrus, head of MUFON, and asked him for the
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name of a computer specialist within MUFON. He said he had an abductee who
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claimed to be in psychic contact with her abductors, and was receiving
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channeled information that included what appeared to be computer terminology.
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Walt steered him my way, and we began a brief correspondence.
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Corder sent me copies of his abductee's notes, known to me then only as
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"Donna." The notes included computer terms, alright, but arranged in such a
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way that I was certain it was a case of someone looking through a computer
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book and juxtaposing random terms. I told Corder this, and thought that was
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the end of it.
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But Corder persisted in the correspondence, and each successive letter became
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wilder than the last. He claimed to believe that he, too had been abducted.
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Then he claimed to have found the answer to the whole mystery, and "It has to
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do with God, Jesus, the Bible, everything...its all true, and the Second
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Coming is nigh!" He made some predictions, including a specific one regarding
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a "momentous event" in Jerusalem - "watch the headlines" on such and such a
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date. Of course nothing came to pass, but he was undaunted. Our correspondence
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grew quite bitter, and I finally told him to shove off. At one point he had
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sent me a large chart with strange symbols that he claimed were the alien's
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word-characters. I sent him back a postcard with the symbols for "mountain"
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and "feces."
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Eventually Corder got in touch with Michael Corbin of ParaNet, and sent him a
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file chock full of wild and fanciful predictions for the coming years. One of
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them was that Bob Dole would be the next - and last - President of the US, and
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would move the White House to Russell, KS. Needless to say, none of his
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predictions came true. Meantime, Mike did some cursory checking, which
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apparently led to the Kansas BME lifting Corder's licence to practice
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medicine.
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Apparently all this time he was grooming Donna Butts as his "star" abductee,
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and is known to have developed quite a cult following in his area. The WSJ
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article seems to be the culmination of these activities, at least for the
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moment.
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Jim
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PSI-NET
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Category 3, Topic 7
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Message 67 Sun Dec 15, 1991
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J.SPEISER [Jim] at 18:53 EST
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Bubba:
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I'm not sure that it was stipulated in the Lawson experiment whether the test
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subjects had had any prior exposure to the subject or not. In any case, there
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were some very significant differences between the encounters related by
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Lawson's subjects and those reported by "bona fide" abductees. Most important
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was the order in which events occurred. Bullard (1989) has identified a
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specific sequence of events - capture, examination, conference, tour,
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otherworldly journey, theophany, return, and aftermath - and has shown that in
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"bona fide" cases, these events occur in the above order in nearly all the
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cases, whereas Lawson's subjects described events in seemingly random order
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(within the constraints of common sense, of course - nobody put the return
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before the capture!). Also, in bona fide cases the descriptions of the beings
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are generally much more homogenous than in Lawson's study. And, of course, you
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touched on the emotional aspect, something that was universally lacking in
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Lawson's sample; of course, this might be explained by the fact that there is
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nothing and no one telling abductees that this is NOT happening. They do not
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have the benefit of the "reality check," whereas Lawson's subjects knew they
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were making it up.
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As far as UFO researchers "plowing ahead" when the going gets rough for
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abductees, that is clearly a potential danger inherent in the widespread
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proliferation of amateur abduction researchers; However, it has not been a
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factor in the past as far as I know. I know that *I* do not "push" abductees
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to recall events they are reticent to relive. I have found that it is, in
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fact, a good place to stop the session and try again later, because through
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repeated, evenly-spaced attempts to "get at" the data, the fear barrier is
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quickly broken down and the subject eventually appears to actually _want_ to
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get at the unpleasant memory.
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Jim
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PSI-NET
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Category 3, Topic 8
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Message 58 Wed Jan 22, 1992
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J.SPEISER [Jim] at 09:03 EST
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Bubba:
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Doty is the biggest BS artist ever to come down the pike. When I contacted him
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in 1987 right after the MJ-12 documents came out, He tried to convince me and
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several other people that he was the WRONG Richard Doty, that there was
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another Richard Doty who had been stationed at Kirtland AFB who had something
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to do with UFOs. I have to admit, he had me going for a while - we talked for
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45 minutes, and he was EXTREMELY convincing. I just didn't buy it on the
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grounds that it was too implausible - two Richard Dotys at the same AFB at
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roughly the same time. But it was that conversation that convinced me that
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sane, sober people can look you straight in the eye and lie like a rug for no
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visible reason. A lesson well learned...in the UFO zone.
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Jim
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PSI-Net by Michael Stackpole
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Category 2, Topic 11
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Message 22 Thu May 28, 1992
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J.SPEISER [Jim] at 01:28 EDT
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Deb:
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Sorry if I misportrayed your feelings; it seemed to me to be a bit defensive,
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and I think even Bubba was a bit taken aback by your reaction. PTSD is not
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something you shake off easily. I know that if I'd been through what you've
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been through, I'd be in the rubber room making little cutout dolls.
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I have noticed, and others here should take note of this, that VERY FEW
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abductees jump to the conclusion that ETs have visited them. The vast majority
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simply report their experience without trying to force the ET conclusion down
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anyone's throat. They come to us LOOKING for an explanation, not trying to
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provide it. Contrast this with the Contactees, who seem to not only have an
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explanation, but an epiphany to go with it.
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As far as them being physically real, please don't take this wrong, but I'm
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not sure you're in a position to judge that. There are mental states in which
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completely internally-generated images seem totally real.
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Hypnagogic/hypnopompic experiences fall into this category, and we are still
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studying those to see if they have any bearing on this phenomenon. I liken the
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situation to a little meter inside your head that, when you experience
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something, points to either REAL or IMAGINED. 99.999 percent of the time, the
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needle works just fine, for example, when you wake up from a particularly
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vivid dream, the needle may have been pointing towards REAL _during_ the
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dream, but when you're awake the needle moves to IMAGINED. Every once in a
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while, however, the needle gets pointed the wrong way, even in totally non-
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delusional people such as yourself (a safe presumption, I think). When that
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happens, I maintain that we are COMPLETELY UNABLE TO DISTINGUISH THE
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EXPERIENCE from physical reality, despite all our protestations to the
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contrary. Until a case goes on record where an independent eyewitness
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testifies that he saw an abductee being floated out a window to a waiting
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craft, we have to keep this in the "?" category. (Footnote: Apparently such a
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case will be presented to the MUFON convention in Albuquerque next month;
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however, I am familiar with some of the details of the case, and it sounds
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dubious to me).
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None of this is meant to demean the importance of your experience; on the
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contrary, as I mentioned before, we may be dealing with some kind of new realm
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that is "in-between" the real world and the imagined. If so, you and your
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fellow abductees are pioneers in the next phase of human discovery.
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Jim
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PSI-Net by Michael Stackpole
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Category 3, Topic 6
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Message 115 Thu May 28, 1992
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J.SPEISER [Jim] at 01:29 EDT
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Steve:
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There is no basis whatsoever for believing that UFO sightings represent ET
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spacecraft. I know there are elements out there that would have you believe
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otherwise; for purposes of this discussion, pay no attention to them.
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There IS a basis for believing that something out of the ordinary is
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happening. There is a phenomenon, for which there are several competing
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hypotheses, one of which happens to be the ET hypothesis. This hypothesis is
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not easily dismissed, for a number of reasons. First, if you temporarily
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remove the objections that have been raised, ie, lack of discernible
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motivation, problems with energy consumption, interstellar travel, etc., it IS
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the first thing that comes to mind when reading an eyewitness report. So far,
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the phenomenon looks, walks and quacks like a duck in many ways. Secondly, the
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idea of ET visitation is so transcendentally important to humanity that it
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begs special attention and perhaps momentary dispensation from Occam's razor.
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Third, other attempted explanations, such as those raised by Klass et al, i.e.
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hoaxes and misperceptions, have not stood up well when applied to the best
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cases in the database.
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No ufologist worth his salt is unwilling to entertain other hypotheses or
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explanations, as long as they are consistent with the known facts, and are
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testable under the rigors of the scientific method. You state in your message
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that there are, for instance, other possible explanations for "how fast the
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UFOs move." Can you provide us with some, so that we can discuss them?
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While discarding mundane explanations does not ameliorate the possibility that
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UFOs are a terrestrial phenomenon, it does have a tendency to raise the
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stature of the extraordinary hypotheses by default, if you will. That is what
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I perceive as having happened, especially over the last 15-20 years as more
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and more scientific interest has been garnered and more and more mundane
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explanations have been rendered untenable by scientific examination.
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Jim
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PSI-Net by Michael Stackpole
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Category 2, Topic 11
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Message 26 Sun May 31, 1992
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J.SPEISER [Jim] at 14:04 EDT
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Steve:
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I think you need to brush up on some of the more recent literature. If you
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possibly can get a hold of the last three issues of the Journal of UFO
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Studies, read all the abduction-related articles. This will bring you up to
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speed on the latest scientifically verified findings. We don't know what the
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abduction syndrome is, but we seem to be getting a handle on what it's NOT,
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and it's NOT dreams, nor has it been shown to be related to any
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psychopathology ("abnormalness") that we're currently aware of.
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The Journal of UFO Studies is available from The Center for UFO Studies, 2457
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W. Peterson Ave., Chicago, IL 60659. I believe they are $15 each for Vols. 1-
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3, New Series.
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Jim
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Category 2, Topic 11
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Message 32 Wed Jun 10, 1992
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J.SPEISER [Jim] at 01:01 EDT
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Steve:
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Here is the abstract from "Psychosocial Characteristics of Abductees: Results
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from the CUFOS Abduction Project" by Mark Rodeghier, Jeff Goodpaster, and
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Sandra Blatterbauer.
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<<
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Psychological and demographic data were collected from 27 persons who met the
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author's selection criteria for an abduction experience. Instruments included
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the MMPI, ICMI, CIS, and an 85-item survey developed by the authors.
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Demographic data suggests that the respondents are similar to the US adult
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population, although females outnumbered males in the sample. Data from the
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ICMI and CIS questionnaires suggest that the respondents cannot be
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characterized as fantasy-prone personalities or as especially hypnotically
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responsive. However, a cluster analysis of the primary MMPI scales reveals two
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well-defined groups of abductees, clusters I and II. Cluster II has more
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elevated scores on most MMPI primary scales and significantly higher scores on
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the Keane PTSD subscale. This group also has significantly higher fantasy-
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prone scores. Custer II respondents report more loneliness as adults, lower
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levels of happiness throughout their life, more problems sleeping, and a
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greater incidence of sexual abuse as children. The implications of these
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results for current theories about the abduction experience are considered in
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depth.
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>>
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JUFOS, New Series, Vol. 3, Page 59.
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Here is another, this one from "Double Abduction Case: Correlation of Hypnosis
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Data" by John Carpenter:
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<<
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This research note presents an example of the type of UFO report commonly
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labeled as an "abduction" in popular writings of the UFO community. It is
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presented to the serious research community as an example of the sort of data
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available in surprisingly widespread cases to researchers and mental health
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professionals employing accepted counseling techniques of interviews and
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hypnosis. The independent interviewing and hypnotic regression of multiple
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witnesses to a UFO close encounter are essential steps toward establishing a
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credible account with minimal opportunity for contamination, suggestion, or
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influential interactions. The separate hypnotic investigation of two or more
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participants greatly decreases the likelihood that imagination, delusion, or
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confabulation serve as explanations for these encounters.
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>>
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JUFOS, New Series, Vol. 3, Page 91.
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As to your dream hypothesis, yes, the abduction experience shares many factors
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in common with dreams. However, it also has factors that set it apart from
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normal dreaming, some of which have been mentioned by others. Most notably, of
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course, is the description of the beings, but there is also the non-randomness
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of the order of events that take place - I know of no type of dream that has
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this cohesive structure to it. Most important is the emotional reaction of the
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subject to hypnotic recall of the events. I don't think mere dreams can evoke
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such strong responses. (I could be wrong about this; can anyone set me
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straight?)
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In order for the dream hypothesis to be tenable, Steve, you will have to
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account for these discrepancies. Perhaps there is another form of mentally-
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generated imagery that we have yet to quantify, perhaps it is triggered by
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some chemical reaction that takes place in some people's brains under certain
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circumstances. I'd be willing to look at data in support of something like
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this. But mere dreams? I don't think so, and neither does anyone else in the
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professional community that I know of.
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Jim
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===========================================================================
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BBS: Flite-Line
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Date: 08-14-92 (11:32) Number: 5150
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From: JIM SPEISER Refer#: NONE
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To: GERALD SANDERS Recvd: NO
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Subj: What does it all mean? Conf: (46) UFO(Fido)
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---------------------------------------------------------------------------
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GS>Until abductees or other individuals with hard evidence step
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GS>forward, the whole movement will be relegated to the Weekly World News
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GS>crowd and, eventually, be thrown on the scrap heap with the Utopians
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GS>and countless other movements that collapsed under the weight
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GS>of their own dogma and/or silliness.
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Gerald:
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Much of what you say is true, of course, but much of it seems to be based on
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the mistaken premise that the purpose of this echo, and of ufology in
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general, is to prove that UFOs are ET spacecraft. As to this echo, there is
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of course no amount of ASCII rantings that will even prove the writer's
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identity, let alone the nature of UFOs. We see messages here all the time
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asking for "proof," and I picture a hand emerging from someone's monitor
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holding a chunk of molten, unearthly metal, and a voice saying, "So there.
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Nyah." Short of that, I don't really see what is expected out of a computer
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echo.
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As to ufology in general, it is important to remember the words of Hynek:
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"Ufology does not study UFOs, it studies UFO _reports_." Which is to say
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that we are not here to answer the question, "Do UFOs exist" or "What planet
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do UFOs come from," but "Why do people report seeing UFOs?" Thus the
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solution set is expanded to include sociological, as well as
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phenomenological possibilities. From that standpoint, it is an exercise in
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misdirection to focus on "proof" so single-mindedly as to imply that the
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entire field is unworthy of serious discussion until such "proof" is
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forthcoming.
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Do certain people here take certain UFO "truisms" as given? Yes. For some,
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they represent a belief system; for most, however, they are merely a
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starting point for discussion. This echo would dry up and blow away if no
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one could post without absolute proof positive of whatever they proposed.
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For that matter, so would all of science.
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And that, I believe, is the central point. Much of science deals with things
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that are unproven. This is not a barrier to discussion or even speculation
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in the mainstream sciences, yet it seems that when it comes to UFOs, its
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"put up or shut up." Many of us recognize the need for proving our
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assertions, and we accept the challenge of "extraordinary claims demand
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extraordinary proof." What we resent is the implication that, in the absence
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of such proof, we are doing no more than engaging in mental masturbation and
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tabloid-style pseudo-science. This does not seem to apply to such unproven
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postulates as black holes, super-string theory, or what happened one
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millisecond after the Big Bang; why does it apply here?
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If your answer is the lack of evidence to support the very _existence_ of an
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unexplained phenomenon, I must take issue. While the field is, as you say,
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rife with anecdotes and unproven assertions, there IS a solid body of data
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constituting evidence of an unexplained and _paradoxical_ phenomenon. This
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database includes thousands of reports of _high strangeness_ from highly
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reliable sources, reports that transcend the "Threshold of Observational
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Ambiguity." This means that the degree of strangeness involved obviates the
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tired old chestnut of "misperceived prosaic phenomena" and places the
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reports in a realm where the only two realistic choices are fabrication -
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deliberate or not - and objective reality. When such reports come from
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multiple independent witnesses of unimpeachable character, I submit that it
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is unrealistic to ascribe them to fabrication and it is time to start
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dealing with the _possibility_ of objective reality. To propose otherwise is
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to yourself breech the walls of "extraordinary claims."
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The database also includes evidence of a more tangible nature. Certain
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photographs have yet to be explained (and yes, they're a little fuzzy; I
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don't trust the crystal-clear ones). Certain videos have undergone extensive
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analysis by skeptical scientists and yet defy explanation. There are ground
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traces which have undergone the same thorough testing; you can read the
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results for yourself in "The Journal of UFO Studies," a refereed science
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journal. The phenomenon as described _exists_ Gerald. I assure you, as a
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card-carrying skeptic myself, I wouldn't be here if it didn't.
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I emphasized "paradoxical" in the above text; the fascination the UFO
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phenomenon holds for me is its paradoxical nature. We are told by science
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that it is profoundly unlikely that UFOs could carry visitors from other
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solar systems, and, having some inkling myself of the barriers involved, I
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am forced to accept that (for the moment, anyway). Yet in light of the
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evidence cited above, I submit that it is _equally_ unlikely that they're
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"from here," either. They shouldn't be in our skies, yet they can't NOT be.
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What's a scientist to do?
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It is this concurrent duality that caused Vallee to speculate that it may be
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time for a new scientific paradigm, Kenneth Ring to postulate his "Imaginal
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Realm," and others to begin to investigate new ways of looking at reality.
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No one is suggesting that we tear down the old house before building the new
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one, but I think its fair to at least look at the proposed blueprints. I
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submit that it is the job of mainstream science to help guide us through
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this process, rather than sit back and laugh at our efforts, or turn a blind
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eye to the questions raised by the evidence. I founded ParaNet as a means of
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extending a hand to curious skeptics and even nay-sayers, to ask them to
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join us in formulating a way out of this "hall of mirrors with a quicksand
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floor." I extend the same hand to you, in the spirit of mutual curiosity and
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cooperation. You ARE at least curious, aren't you?
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Jim
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* OLX 2.1 TD * A ParaNet Point System - Excellence in Ufology since 1986
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--- GrayQwkMail 1.0
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* Origin: ParaNet Zeta-Reticuli 9:1010/100.0 (UFOs R Us) (1:114/37)
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**********************************************
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* THE U.F.O. BBS - http://www.ufobbs.com/ufo *
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