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Brd ->UFO Debate Forum
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Numb ->96 of 124
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Sub ->Re: Evolving life
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To ->MICHAEL GRAHAM (#107)
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From ->DON F ECKER (#17)
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Date ->09/04/88 02:33:20 PM
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Michael, in reading your last message, several questions immediatly come to
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mind.-
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First-do you talk like this in public:
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a. often
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b. sometimes
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c. almost never
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d. never
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Second-if you do talk like this in public; does anyone understand what you are
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elucidateing?
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a. always
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b. sometimes
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c. almost never
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d. never
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Just curious. This is the UFO debate board, so as to get back on track, I
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through this at you, now lets see if you catch it.
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I understand that you have shown an interest in the material concerning the
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MJ-12 papers. I was the one to have uploaded this to the board, and have
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personally talked to some of the people that are alledged to have uncovered
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this. I am presently working on a paper that deals with some of this material
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and am quite familar with this.
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What are your feelings about what you have read so far, and do you think that
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there is anything to this at this point? I will be checking daily, and will be
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very interested in what you have to say.
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Don Ecker
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[B16 #96 of 124] ? for more cmds or Cmd [N]#n
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Brd ->UFO Debate Forum
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Numb ->97 of 124
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Sub ->RoseGlass
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To ->DON F ECKER (#17)
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From ->MICHAEL GRAHAM (#107)
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Date ->09/05/88 01:18:16 AM
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REPLY--Sect 001
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A. & B. Yes I always talk like that, I love language and
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puzzle over appropriate word and ACCURACY of usage. [eg: if you
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are sickened by something are you nauseous or nauseated?] and
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what is omphaloskepsis, anyway? John Lear probably knows, which
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brings me to....
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REPLY--Sect 002
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Don, it is my understanding that you have around ten years
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experience with UFO's and the paranormal. The most I can say is
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that as a kid I had an intense [to the point of obsession]
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fascination with the idea of alien craft and what they implied.
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Then, again, I had an obsession with space: science and science
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fiction, astronomy and astrology. The more imagination one
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possesses the more real the paranormal tends to be: Sasquatch,
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ghosts, goblins, djinn, dragons that lived to this day.
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The interest has matured to a fascination with legends of
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various cultures, myths and tales passed down. I like the
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unexplained and odd: plants with emotions, the curse of
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Tutankhamen, the Maya and their invention of Zero, giants on
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Easter island, Spring-heeled Jack, The Mary Celeste, The Angels
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of Mons, the faces of Belmez. In almost all these things I can
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believe with little difficulty. Even when finally explained I
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prize such things for their initial mystery.
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Despite my fascination and willingness to entertain almost
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any thought, the John Lear text is too neat of a fit, too
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appealing to the xenophobe to possess the probity necessary to
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serious consideration.
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It takes its plot from half a dozen works of fiction
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(Childhood's End, Arther C. Clarke; "V", a TV series from the
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early 80's), plays upon the human fears of enslavement and pain
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and makes nonsensical claims. It tries too hard to be convincing
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and uses phrases such as "horrible truth" like a tabloid aiming
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to frighten rather than inform. It employs far to much
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speculation and doesn't attempt to separate fact from guesswork,
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nor does it take into account peoples' tendency to joke; The
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first time the dark side of the moon was examined by our own
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space craft, there occurred an odd transmission, meant as a joke,
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that sent press scrambling for their recorders: "We've located a
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large, black monolith...."
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It contradicts itself in that the 'first contact' was at a
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'prearranged' meeting place. It underestimates the curiosity of
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the press corps -- Geraldo, if no other, does not mind making a
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fool of himself for the sake of sensationalism and, in fact,
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neither does Dan Rather. If there is indeed something for the
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press to follow, it may simply be reluctance to cover old
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subjects, rather than pride, keeping their microphones silent.
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The idea of an atrophied digestive track has a few medical
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barriers to it, although conceivably it could occur through
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genetic damage. However, I am told by a medico friend of mine
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that obtaining sufficient nutrition through the skin in the
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manner described would entail almost constant submersion in
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addition to a plethora of metabolic supplements. The idea of
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metabolizing through a semi-permeable membrane is nothing new,
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individual cells do it all the time, but the process the EBE's
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use would also carry foreign agents into their skin [H2O2 does
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not eliminate all bacteria or their waste products and has little
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effect on some viruses]. The constant elimination of waste
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through the skin would give them a slimy, amphibian, appearance,
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and a smell to match. No such thing is noted. If the story were
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true, however, it seems obvious that contamination of their food
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source would be relatively easy.
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No mention is made of environment control. given the
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structure of the eyes and the texture of the skin, the reptilian,
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"mantis-like" appearance, our world must be cold and bright for
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them, even if the air is breathable and their immunity up to the
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variation of our microbes.
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In short, Don, while the text is a great bit of doomsaying,
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I find the vacillation of fact and fantasy to be contraindicative
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of a genuinely informed individual, however inimitable John Lear
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may be.
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[B16 #97 of 124] ? for more cmds or Cmd [N]#n
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Brd ->UFO Debate Forum
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Numb ->98 of 124
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Sub ->Re: RoseGlass
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To ->MICHAEL GRAHAM (#107)
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From ->DON F ECKER (#17)
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Date ->09/05/88 02:49:49 AM
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Michael, what I suggested discussing first is the MJ-12 material. Well, no
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problem, if you wish, let us discuss the Lear paper. I have talked to John on
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numerous occasions, and I am convinced that HE is convinced. Lets take a quick
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look at what he is saying, and then decide if it has any merit.
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Lear claims that the government is hiding the truth. Is this possible in our
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democracy? First we have to ask what truth are they supposed to have hidden?
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What he claims is that the US government has hidden the facts surronding the
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alledged crash of a craft in Roswell, New Mexico, in 1947. Is there any
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evidence for this? YES, and I might add, it is overwhelming. William Moore,
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and Charles Berlitz wrote a book titled "The Roswell Incident" that was
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released in 1980, and this lays out all the facts surronding this case in
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exellent detail. Prior to his death, the Air Force Intelligence Officer that
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was one of the first on the scene, gave all the facts to Moore, surronding the
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case, plus over < 80 > other witnesses to the event. If you are interested in
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the subject matter, I strongly urge you to read this account. Now you may say
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that this is a case that is 40 years in the past, what has happened since then.
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A LOT. A BIG case occured in Bentwaters England at an American Air Base in
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1980, that involved sightings of craft by numerous Air Force Personell,
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including the Deputy Base Commander ( I have a copy of his statement ) and also
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an alledged encounter with the craft occupants, and the Base Commander. CNN
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did a special on the incident in 1983, and if you are interested in it, I can
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make arrangements for you to see it, and the other documents I have.
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Now what else did Lear alledge? Well, he states that in 1964 that elements of
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the US government met offically for the first time with the enitys in the
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craft, and since then have come to an arragement with them for an exchange of
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their technology. This is a real tough one, and I could not even guess about
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it with out some type of proof. Do I think that this COULD be possible? Yes,
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without a doubt, this COULD be possible, however I don't know. Remember, this
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is the same country that worked out deals with the Chinease Govt in secret in
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1971 and 1972, and the same guys that dealt covertly with the North Vietnamease
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during the war, and lets not forget the White House Plumbers, the CIA BLACK
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operations and the rest. Now according to Lear, one of the parts of the deal
|
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that the government was alledged to have made was to allow the enitys to
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"abduct" humans to "study" an emerging civilazation. Is there any proof that
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something like this is occuring? Yes, but I won't go into it now for the sake
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of brevity. I will suggest that if you want to study this aspect of the
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enigma, read Hopkins exellent books "Missing Time" and also "Intruders". Also
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Striebers Book "Communion" would be recommended. As for much eariler works
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concerning this, before the word "Abduction" became well known, read any of
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John Keels books, but the very first one I would recommend would be his work
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"The Mothman Prophecies". These would be a good start.
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As far as John Lear is concerned, he is convinced that he is on the right
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track, but don't you and I throw the baby out with the bathwater. We may not
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agree with all of what Lear says, but he makes points in quite a few areas that
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are worth looking at.
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Now you may wonder if I think there is anything to ALL of this, and if you ask
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me, I will tell you yes I do. I will be more than happy to continue this, but
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will wait for your response to the above. Also, our second newsletter will be
|
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ready in a very short time, and I will recommend you read the interview I
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conducted with Jim Speiser.
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[B16 #98 of 124] ? for more cmds or Cmd [N]#n
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Brd ->UFO Debate Forum
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Numb ->99 of 124
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Sub ->Bathwater
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To ->DON F ECKER (#17)
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From ->MICHAEL GRAHAM (#107)
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Date ->09/05/88 12:08:43 PM
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||
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I have my own reasons for knowing that the incident in New Mexico
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did occur, even if not in the way described in the allegedly
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authentic document. I suspect that it is one reason we developed
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epoxy resins to the extent we did. I therefore have no problem
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with the claims of the document.
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The government can and does hide things all the time, although in
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their minds it is often the only way to proceed as they wish to
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avoid panic and the plodding slowness of congressional approval
|
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[though I wish it were not so, it often is the case that it is
|
||
better to proceed covertly and take lumps later so that the
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country's reflexes are not dimmed by panic or debate.]
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All I remember about CNN's coverage was a couple of vague
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interviews and a lot of allege's. Admittedly, I did not pay
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close attention to the segment (In 83, I was probably struggling
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with the new UNIX system.) Keep in mind that documents do not
|
||
constitute proof unless the document may be proven to be
|
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authentic. I am no judge of authenticity -- R. Heinlein has come
|
||
up with some pretty convincing stuff and Ray Bradbury came up
|
||
with some great photographic duplications using kitchen
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implements and passed both originals and mockups around the table
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at a conference in Salt Lake City. I could not tell the
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||
difference.
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|
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Again, with the idea of abductions, I am not disturbed. I have
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been aware of the occurrence for a long while and, in addition,
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have been of the opinion that one race is responsible, not many
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as some would claim. Too my knowledge, the only substantiated
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[in that they've never been satisfactorily explained] incidents
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are ones in which the most the study subject received was a
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bruise and minor trauma wouldn't you blank out their memory?.
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Your subject is no good if by studying it, you change its
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behavior. It was once different, you know. Once they took it as
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a honor to be brought aboard such a craft, religious frenzy, will
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of the gods and all that. And yes, the subjects are tagged. But
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aren't the animals we study also tagged? In the case of Big
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Cats, we've even got a combination radio transmitter/hypo to
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locate and, if necessary, sedate the target. I've got a date for
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you to play with: Mar, 2011. By the way, I've read communion;
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it was on the best-seller list. I try to read all of them that
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come across that list, with the exception of the, uh, work of
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Michael Jackson and Danielle Steel. The book was well written,
|
||
entertaining, and grammatically average.
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John Lear is inimitable and hard to discredit, but I do not
|
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believe he is convinced of all he says. He doesn't know enough.
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He hasn't even gone to the trouble to find out why the bovine
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tissues that are sampled are used or what they have in common,
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though he did at least mention that the cells are neatly divided
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in some cases. The technical end of his expose is shoddy and un-
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researched and this, in my mind, tends to shade the rest with
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doubt. "Horrible truth....run like hell," indeed!
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t with
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[B16 #99 of 124] ? for more cmds or Cmd [N]#n
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Brd ->UFO Debate Forum
|
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Numb ->100 of 124
|
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Sub ->Re: Bathwater
|
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To ->MICHAEL GRAHAM (#107)
|
||
From ->DON F ECKER (#17)
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||
Date ->09/05/88 01:52:42 PM
|
||
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Michael, I have read your response with great interest. I agree with much of
|
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what you have stated, and disagree with some of it. As far as Lear is
|
||
concerned, let me once more state to you and the board that I have never agreed
|
||
with all in his hypothesis, however I do know that some of what he alledges
|
||
have been verified through other sources.
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After he released his paper, he (Lear) called our board, because he had read
|
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about us through Paranet Alpha. I then contacted him for the first time, and
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within one week, he sent me copies of all the documents that he used to support
|
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what he alledged. Rick has seen many of these, and if nothing else can be said
|
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about them, at first look they are impressive as hell. Oh, and yes, I do know
|
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what he alledges about the cattle. If you are interested, let me know, and
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anytime you are free, I will be more than happy to show you what I have. This
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||
invitation is also extended to all that show an interest. Also, I might add at
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this point that in October, and this will be announced, Rick and myself and Don
|
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Mason will be giving the first of several presentations on information we have
|
||
collected in the field of ufology. Now back to the debate.
|
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|
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Just what is it that you are stating at this point? You say that you are aware
|
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about Roswell, through personal information. Ok, I have been in contact with
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Stan Friedman of MJ-12 fame, and would love to chat with you via voice or in
|
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person. You have intrigued me. Next, you appear to believe that the
|
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abductions have some basis in truth, so do I. What I have stated time after
|
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time is, I do not know what is occuring, only that something is. I, as a
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policeman have been involved in an investigation with a cattle mute, I know
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that something did it, but it wasn't preditors or modern day rustlers. I just
|
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want to get to the truth of the matter. I have never stated that I believe in
|
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the overworked term "spacemen". There are many other possibilites besides an
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extraterrestial one. The fact is, I am of the opinion that the government, our
|
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government is very concerned, and since in our republic, we are supposed to be
|
||
the government, I want to be told. The term that is always bandied about is we
|
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are withholding information because of national security. Hogwash in over 50
|
||
percent of the cases. (maybe much more) While in the U. S. Army, I had a Top
|
||
Secret Clearence with a crypto access, I do know something about this, and any
|
||
time the beaurocrats get caught with their collective fingures in the pie,
|
||
National Security is trumpeted through the Hallowed Halls. Alright, in many
|
||
cases this may be very well justified, however in the decade after Viet Nam,
|
||
not to mention Watergate, what we see is a Cosmic Watergate, and the excuse
|
||
that the government is afraid to panic the public just will NOT WASH. For well
|
||
over 10 years, the public has been conditioned, either with purpose, or maybe
|
||
not, but conditioned to except the idea of an alien visatation. Star Trek,
|
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Close Encounters of the Third Kind, E. T., and Star Wars I, II, III. to name
|
||
just a few. This is not 1938, with Orson Wells scaring the hell out of people,
|
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this is 1988, and we have sent craft out of this solar system, we have landed
|
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man on the moon, and have conducted unmanned exploring of our closest planetary
|
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neigbors. I can not believe in what the reasons could be for the government or
|
||
the military to hide these facts. The reasons I come up with for the Feds to
|
||
stonewall however are not good. They are worried as hell. Why?
|
||
|
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NOW THAT DOES CONCERN ME.
|
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|
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Don
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[B16 #100 of 124] ? for more cmds or Cmd [N]#n
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Brd ->UFO Debate Forum
|
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Numb ->101 of 124
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Sub ->Re: skyisfalln
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To ->DON F ECKER (#17)
|
||
From ->MICHAEL GRAHAM (#107)
|
||
Date ->09/05/88 03:35:40 PM
|
||
|
||
What agrees with you, and what does not? What has been supported
|
||
through other sources? What sources and to what extent?
|
||
|
||
Do the documents have signatures, whose, and have they been
|
||
authenticated? By whom?
|
||
|
||
I said that I have my own reasons for knowing the Rosell incident
|
||
to have taken place, nothing more, and nothing more shall be
|
||
said. Have you ever noticed that any wreckage not recovered from
|
||
these sights is assumed to have burned up on entry? I've
|
||
wondered at that for a long time.
|
||
Abductions can hardly be denied now, can they? But the
|
||
negative responses to them are relatively new. The incident on
|
||
the airfield wherein an officer was seen to have been picked up
|
||
by a GEV, and then his mutilated remains were found later
|
||
intrigues me. I should like to see the coroner's report, and his
|
||
speculation as to the instruments used and their origin.
|
||
|
||
Don, conditioned is a strong word. There has been a certain
|
||
revolution in how aliens are regarded, but I would think that
|
||
this is due to other factors, if for no other reason than Occam's
|
||
razor. This alteration of general opinion may obviate a great
|
||
many problems should a general insertion become obvious. Abject
|
||
fear of the unknown does nobody any good and can be down right
|
||
irritating. Regardless, the only stupidity aliens are going to
|
||
worry about is most likely that of the governing bodies. They
|
||
could very well blow themselves and everyone else up trying to
|
||
obliterate the unseen. I know that their National Security cry
|
||
wont wash anymore. But neither will the They're Hiding Something
|
||
cry. If you want to stir things up a bit, go to the other side
|
||
and say, "They've a hold on EBE technology -- some weapon they
|
||
don't understand yet...(why do they always assume something that
|
||
can destroy is a weapon?)" then come back to this side and do the
|
||
same. Of course, there again, you need some convincing proof
|
||
beyond stories of a manipulatable EM field generator.
|
||
|
||
And the Federal Agents are worried for the same reasons you are.
|
||
|
||
I've got something else for you to chew on, Don, Purely
|
||
speculative nonsense, nevertheless entertaining. Can you give me
|
||
one example wherein humans have respected the rights of those
|
||
creatures lower than themselves, even where evident intelligence
|
||
occurred? C'mon Don! The other end of the stick can't thus be
|
||
wielded for that. I will say one thing for the lower life,
|
||
though. While they may run away, they never turn on each other
|
||
in response to a perceived external threat./VOL2/rceived external threat.BULLETIN
|
||
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[B16 #101 of 124] ? for more cmds or Cmd [N]#n
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Brd ->UFO Debate Forum
|
||
Numb ->102 of 124
|
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Sub ->Re: skyisfalln
|
||
To ->MICHAEL GRAHAM (#107)
|
||
From ->DON F ECKER (#17)
|
||
Date ->09/05/88 07:03:52 PM
|
||
|
||
Michael, what can I say? If it walks like a duck, if it quacks like a duck, if
|
||
water rolls off its back, and if it has a bill and webbed feet, what else can
|
||
it be? If the "authorites" are hiding or conceling something, then that is
|
||
what they are doing. Calling it something else is similar to someone hiding
|
||
their head in the sand, and refusing to accept the facts. A person either has
|
||
studied the subject, and come to a conclusion about the subject, or they refuse
|
||
to look at it because that person finds it too unsettling. You asked me what
|
||
documents, and whom signed them, and whom authinicated them. Well which ones
|
||
do you refer to? Let me know, and I will try and get the information to you.
|
||
If you are attempting to get me to defend Lears paper, I refuse untill such
|
||
time as he presents much more proof. What I said about that several messages
|
||
ago is that some of what he alledges appears to be correct, NOT ALL. So, once
|
||
more I will ask, where do you stand, do you refute that something is occuring,
|
||
or do you believe that something may be? And why did you begin with Lear,
|
||
because it is sensational, or at first glance it appears to be ludricous? To
|
||
even begin to think one has a firm grasp on this subject, you must wade through
|
||
the garbage, to get to the facts, and the biggest problem with this subject is
|
||
to recognize the facts when one stumbles over them.
|
||
|
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|
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Brd ->UFO Debate Forum
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Numb ->103 of 124
|
||
Sub ->Justin Boggs a biography
|
||
To ->MICHAEL GRAHAM (#107)
|
||
From ->CURTIS WARD (#9)
|
||
Date ->09/06/88 05:09:16 PM
|
||
|
||
What significance does Justin's psyche provide for us?
|
||
|
||
|
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|
||
Numb ->104 of 124
|
||
Sub ->Re: Justin Boggs a biography
|
||
To ->CURTIS WARD (#9)
|
||
From ->MICHAEL GRAHAM (#107)
|
||
Date ->09/06/88 06:28:38 PM
|
||
|
||
Quite obviously, none. Thus, the improptu posting of it was neither useful,
|
||
nor counterproductive but simply 'there.' Like BRA.
|
||
|
||
I must admit, however, that I found the part about his toenails amusing.
|
||
|
||
Michael K. Graham
|
||
|
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|
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Numb ->105 of 124
|
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Sub ->Ducks have no scales
|
||
To ->DON F ECKER (#17)
|
||
From ->MICHAEL GRAHAM (#107)
|
||
Date ->09/08/88 02:19:22 AM
|
||
|
||
Don, you seem to be loosing me here. Your answers are making
|
||
little sense. You ask, 'is it possible something is hidden?'
|
||
The obvious answer is yes, as anything is possible. However, it
|
||
is much easier to hide a mouse than an elephant. I might as well
|
||
claim that the veteran's administration was knocking off vet's
|
||
one by one in nasty little experiments to duplicate Kissenger.
|
||
Is it possible they could be doing that with 25% of Vet's
|
||
reassimilated into society missing, unaccounted for? Of course.
|
||
That would certainly be easier to hide than the 'horrible truth.'
|
||
But I give you the Roswell incident as an apriori. No debate.
|
||
|
||
You make claims for a CNN special, and offer to present it. Well
|
||
and good, but I need not see it, only know if CNN came out and
|
||
said, 'Today base commander such-and-so met for the first time
|
||
with visitors from another planet,' or is it more, as I suspect,
|
||
a case of, 'this is the base where three people claimed to have
|
||
seen....even going so far as to state....as an excuse for not
|
||
having returned on time from a routine range inspection.' Any of
|
||
this COULD be possible, Don. You COULD slip out of your bathtub
|
||
and die tomorrow. You COULD be bitten by a Gila Monster out in
|
||
the Kuna Desert, being the first in history to have received that
|
||
distinction. Paranoia does not land on bases and eat people,
|
||
though people have died from fright.
|
||
|
||
So then, to further clarify myself, not on MJ-12 as I've given
|
||
that apriori, but on the Lear material, with which you have
|
||
intimated partial agreement: I say the phenological phenomena
|
||
known collectively as abductions are at most, most reasonably,
|
||
and no more significant than, simple tagging and release, similar
|
||
to what we do with lower animals of Earth with no more than the
|
||
obvious implications to follow; We are the subject of a study.
|
||
The documents Lear uses to support his claims must be signed,
|
||
verified by a reputable source and cross-checked with other
|
||
available documents from different sources before they're worth
|
||
anything other than grist in a SF mill. The reason for such
|
||
precaution is that with a laser printer, a photocopy of your
|
||
signature and a little time, I can make it look as if you signed
|
||
the We-Want-the-Bakers-Back petition for the PTL. TO LOOK
|
||
IMPRESSIVE IS INSUFFICIENT. TO SEEM GENUINE IS INSUFFICIENT. Do
|
||
you have any idea what I could do with a CRAY and a video tape?
|
||
Any argument presented without unbiased support from unrelated
|
||
sources is suspect. You say the Fed's are worried. About what
|
||
are the worried--MJ-12? Abductions? Mutilations? Or the ever
|
||
elusive Hidden Circumstance? Be careful with your answer as
|
||
admitting that the feds are worried about any of these is to
|
||
affirm your belief in the validity of their fear. Claiming that
|
||
they're worried about you-don't-know-what is to evince
|
||
directionless paranoia. An Evolution, or revolution of thought,
|
||
does not necessitate a causal relationship with external factors,
|
||
but comes of itself and is natural. Therefore, when I say
|
||
'Conditioned is a strong word,' it is a polite way of saying
|
||
'hogwash,' the meaning of which is relatively clear, despite its
|
||
nonsense. To say the public's mind has been conditioned is to
|
||
say that your duck has a furry tail and fangs.
|
||
|
||
It is quite easy to have a firm grasp on a subject to which there
|
||
is relatively little; One may examine what evidence there is,
|
||
check for some valid sort of verification, evaluate it in the
|
||
light of other, previously validated evidence and either keep or
|
||
discard it. Going by the chance you might 'recognize' a fact
|
||
without due process (as if a fact carried a particular smell, or
|
||
wore a peculiar hat) could well enslave your perceptions to the
|
||
amount of wind in your digestive tract.BULLETIN
|
||
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|
||
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|
||
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||
|
||
Brd ->UFO Debate Forum
|
||
Numb ->106 of 124
|
||
Sub ->"Ducks and Saucers"
|
||
To ->MICHAEL GRAHAM (#107)
|
||
From ->DON F ECKER (#17)
|
||
Date ->09/08/88 10:24:49 AM
|
||
|
||
Michael, lets see if I can try once more and explain what you are apparently
|
||
missing. Why do you keep coming back to the Lear material? As I have
|
||
explained already on several occasions, I do not buy what he alledges without a
|
||
lot more proof that may or may not be forthcoming. Lear set a very nice table,
|
||
unfortunatly no main course. He alledges and supposes, but to this point no
|
||
evidence but lot of suppostion. Done, ok?
|
||
|
||
Now, what did I state? The government appears worried? You bet, now how did I
|
||
arrive at this conculsion? Do I have a "Deep Throat" feeding me this? Of
|
||
course not, I don't even know Linda Lovelace, but I do read, and a great place
|
||
for YOU to start is Phil Imbrognos "Night Seige". Now what does this reference
|
||
have to do with the Feds concern of UFO's? Well for a start, On July 24, 1984,
|
||
in the Hudson Valley of New York, the giant UFO that has continually appeared
|
||
in that area < check for references in Para Lib. > flew over the Indian Point
|
||
Nuclear Reactor, and hovered over Reactor # 3. The event was so shocking to
|
||
the Plants Security force (the airspace is restricted, and guards armed) that
|
||
the Security Supervisor was ready to order the officers to open fire. The
|
||
incident took about 10 minutes, as this was how long the craft hovered there.
|
||
|
||
Imbrogno recieved the information from 6 security officers that were on duty
|
||
when the incident occured, and since then, Imbrogno confirmed ( I spoke to him)
|
||
that the plant has experinced a "power drain" that the plant cannot locate.
|
||
The plant was initally "over run" with government agents, and military after
|
||
the above mentioned incident.
|
||
|
||
Ok now lets go for another incident that these things scared hell out of our
|
||
military and civilan authorites. In the UFO classic catagorey, "Clear Intent"
|
||
stands above all the rest. Written by Fawcett and Greenwood, the content of
|
||
the book is ALL taken from government memos, documents, and information
|
||
gleaned from classified material released under the FOIA. Clear Intent does to
|
||
government UFO secrecy, what Watergate did to Nixon. Tore the wrapping right
|
||
off it, and exposed what was underneath. In the mid seventys, a series of
|
||
sightings or "flap" was occuring, much like what is now going on. In the
|
||
Dakotas, where the Air Force ICBM bases are, is some of the most heavily
|
||
secured areas in the world, outside of the Soviet Union. A series of
|
||
incurrsions began with these craft over flying the bases, and cumilated in
|
||
several craft coming down, and apparntly landing in the nuclear storeage area.
|
||
The base commander put the base on alert, which, since we are talking about
|
||
this countries nuclear deterent, the entire nuclear structure was put on alert.
|
||
Jet aircraft, and special response teams were scrambled and to say the least,
|
||
several very tense days were experienced. No UFO's were captured, but upon the
|
||
military checking their nuclear ordnance, the targeting computers were altered!
|
||
In other words, the nuclear missles that the UFO had hovered over, were changed
|
||
as to where they would impact if fired. This was verified by Fawcett and
|
||
Greenwood by using the FOIA to get government documents released.
|
||
|
||
Now I didn't want to start resiting various cases, but can if you insist. So
|
||
Michael, what are you saying? Is it paranoia, or forsight? Are you saying
|
||
that Ok , maybe there is something happening, and ya, maybe there are
|
||
abductions, and ya, Uncle Sam is hiding something, and ya, maybe he does lie a
|
||
little about it, and ya, ok, so what if he does try to chase these things with
|
||
jets, but-hey, he ain't worried. After all, after 40 years of feeding the
|
||
public BS, and doing his collective damndest to make folks look like nuts when
|
||
they report something outside of their experience, he just got in the habit of
|
||
lying, and is having a hard time breaking himself of it. Well, the way I feel,
|
||
|
||
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|
||
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|
||
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||
|
||
Brd ->UFO Debate Forum
|
||
Numb ->107 of 124
|
||
Sub ->Re: "Ducks and Saucers"
|
||
To ->MICHAEL GRAHAM (#107)
|
||
From ->DON F ECKER (#17)
|
||
Date ->09/08/88 10:29:54 AM
|
||
|
||
CONT:
|
||
|
||
Well the way I feel is this, since this is the US, and since the citizens are
|
||
supposed to be the government, I want to know what Uncle Sugar is concealing.
|
||
If it doesn't breach TRUE National SECURITY ie: the Russians, then I want to
|
||
make up my own mind about what is really going on. Maybe you aren't concerned
|
||
about all the secrecy and duplicity, I am however.This Cosmic Watergate could
|
||
be the biggest story of this or anyother century, and I want to get to the
|
||
bottom of it.
|
||
|
||
doneo
|
||
|
||
|
||
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|
||
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|
||
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||
|
||
Brd ->UFO Debate Forum
|
||
Numb ->108 of 124
|
||
Sub ->Re: "Ducks and Saucers"
|
||
To ->DON F ECKER (#17)
|
||
From ->MICHAEL GRAHAM (#107)
|
||
Date ->09/09/83 12:04:50 AM
|
||
|
||
Awright, AWRIGHT already. Sheesh. YOU mentioned convincing
|
||
documents concerning Lear, not I. All I did was ask for
|
||
validation. Ok, lear having been shown as bearing highly
|
||
questionable testimony, is gone then, not apriori, simply outside
|
||
the scope of this argument until he gets real.
|
||
Gee, Beave. Looked at night siege as I unpacked it along with
|
||
ALIEN ABDUCTIONS and COMMUNION and STRANGERS AMONG US and....Ah,
|
||
yes here it is: THE SOULLESS ONES [now there's a title for Linda
|
||
Loveless.]. Night siege has some great pictures of white dots
|
||
and streaks across featureless black, oooh and some drawings, all
|
||
carefully diagramed for us ingenues but, no great surprise,
|
||
nothing conclusive, only stories that read like the testimony of
|
||
a marionette.
|
||
'kay, now what? Oh, the PARAlib [sort of like MAD TAB LIBs,
|
||
eh?] -- got my own copies of those, right here. Stuff and
|
||
nonsense. Hudson Valley sightings and all, Indian Point is
|
||
equipped with a hell of a surveillance system, and I've heard no
|
||
mention about footage of this craft. Neither could I spot any
|
||
notation of electromagnetic anomaly, such as would usually
|
||
accompany a ground effect vehicle. An unlocatable power loss is
|
||
all they'll say, huh? No between reaction chamber and turbine 5,
|
||
or line number seven leading to fuel rods is comeforthing?
|
||
[Southern comforth, preferably]. And feds, huh? Now there's a
|
||
tell-tale sign of alien interference, let me boy howdy! Try
|
||
calling in with a bomb threat to a nuclear power plant some time,
|
||
and see how fast just this kind of invasion occurs.
|
||
Paranoia or foreskin; hmm, hard one to call; give me a sec.
|
||
Let's try to trace your logical progression as we now know it.
|
||
|
||
One person tells of six who say they say a UFO, even
|
||
drawing picture as illustration. Feds show up and
|
||
plant remains heavily guarded for at least a week [or
|
||
so it should be according to the scenario script
|
||
handbook]. Somebody else says, 'power loss' but we
|
||
don't know from where. Concl: Aliens.
|
||
|
||
Lets try to duplicate this reasoning in another context.
|
||
|
||
One person tells of six others who say they saw Don in
|
||
red Mercedes, not his. They even draw the car with Don
|
||
in it. Police show up on Don's doorstep to ask
|
||
questions. Don's car breaks down. Concl: Aliens
|
||
|
||
One more time, to see if I got this right.
|
||
|
||
I am pressed for time. In the shower my soap slips
|
||
over the door, executing a 9.5 pirouette off the
|
||
counter into the toilet. Statistically staggering.
|
||
Then my coffee machine jams a coil and my car wont
|
||
start. Concl: Aliens.
|
||
|
||
Got to admit, Don, I like it! Aliens blamed for shuttle
|
||
misfiring and missing children. Aliens zap Bush's mind into
|
||
believing it's December seventh. Aliens replaced our real
|
||
senator with Syms. It explains a lot. So what is Uncle Sam
|
||
concealing and, more importantly, when we find out, will he turn
|
||
out to be kosher?
|
||
|
||
Michael K. Graham
|
||
BULLETIN
|
||
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|
||
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|
||
[B16 #108 of 124] ? for more cmds or Cmd [N]#n
|
||
|
||
Brd ->UFO Debate Forum
|
||
Numb ->109 of 124
|
||
Sub ->Sphere
|
||
To ->Don Mason
|
||
From ->MICHAEL GRAHAM (#107)
|
||
Date ->09/10/88 12:33:03 PM
|
||
|
||
Don1, in may of the alleged abductions mentioned in accounts of
|
||
UFO encounters, there in made mention of a sphere, approximately
|
||
2mm in diameter, placed next to the brain.
|
||
|
||
Given the tremendous size in relation to the proximate neurons,
|
||
it would be easy to detect and recover through CAT scan. Has
|
||
this ever been attempted. If so, what were the results? If
|
||
nothing was detected then is there sufficient indication that
|
||
this particular aspect of recent abductions could be a fad, as it
|
||
were, of would-be abductees?RD.MAILJ&K
|
||
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|
||
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|
||
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|
||
|
||
Brd ->UFO Debate Forum
|
||
Numb ->110 of 124
|
||
Sub ->"Ducks & Saucers & Spheres"
|
||
To ->MICHAEL GRAHAM (#107)
|
||
From ->DON F ECKER (#17)
|
||
Date ->09/10/88 01:29:16 PM
|
||
|
||
Michael, got hold of your "foreskin"?
|
||
|
||
Ok, to answer your previous msg, if you have read Night Siege, you should be
|
||
aware of what Imbrogno had to say in chapter 11, ie: "Close Encounter at Indian
|
||
Point". On two occasions Imbrogno interviewed the security officers, once he
|
||
taped the interview, and on the second occasion, because of security
|
||
considerations, the officers requested he not tape, but Imbrogno did take
|
||
notes.
|
||
|
||
You made mention of the plant security system, and why did it not record the
|
||
object on either of the occasions it over flew the plant. Again, had you read
|
||
the report your questions would have been answered. On page 149, one of the
|
||
officers that had been working the security console stated " I turned my camera
|
||
in that direction, and I saw eight bright lights in a V shape, very wide,
|
||
almost like a half circle. They were at least as bright as the landing lights
|
||
on a large jet. My supervisor and I panned the camera up and down, and the
|
||
object was very large, < bigger than a football field >". As Imbrogno reported
|
||
in this chapter, they panned the object for 15 minutes, not knowing what it
|
||
could be.
|
||
|
||
Now you also mentioned no reports of any electromagnetic anomalies, or
|
||
interference. Once more Michael, you really must read this account, because on
|
||
page 150, you recieve the answers. I will list them as Imbrogno did:
|
||
|
||
1. As the object approached the east gate of Reactor # 3, the entire Nuclear
|
||
Plant security system shut down.
|
||
2. Inside the security console, the computer that controls all security and
|
||
comm links shut down.
|
||
3. The security commander contacted Camp Smith, a New York National Guard base,
|
||
about 10 miles away, and requested someone to ID the object. No reply was
|
||
given, then the commander requested a armed helicopter to shoot the object
|
||
down. The UFO moved away at this point.
|
||
4. The next day, the commander of the security officers informed them that
|
||
"nothing happened" and to forget the incident.
|
||
Now I will skip over the part where civillian witnesses called police to also
|
||
report the object, and will start with number 7.
|
||
|
||
7. As Imbrogno states "A videotape of the object may exist, since all the
|
||
security cameras automatically record everything they see and the tapes are
|
||
kept for a certain period of time before being reused". The plant authorities
|
||
say no such tape exists.
|
||
8. All radio traffic is also recorded, but no tapes exist for that night.
|
||
9. In the days following the incident, officials from the U. S. Nuclear
|
||
Regulatory Commission visited the plant, and the entire security setup
|
||
underwent a shakeup.
|
||
|
||
Continued next msg.
|
||
|
||
|
||
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|
||
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|
||
[B16 #110 of 124] ? for more cmds or Cmd [N]#n
|
||
|
||
Brd ->UFO Debate Forum
|
||
Numb ->111 of 124
|
||
Sub ->Re: "Ducks & Saucers & Spheres"
|
||
To ->MICHAEL GRAHAM (#107)
|
||
From ->DON F ECKER (#17)
|
||
Date ->09/10/88 01:51:54 PM
|
||
|
||
After the sightings at the Indian Point Plant, Gerry Culliton, a reporter from
|
||
WVIP, a radio station in Mt. Kisco, New York, tried to get the Management from
|
||
the Indian Point Plant to speak. They refused. He was then able to get a
|
||
statement from Carl Patrick, who worked in the plants information office.
|
||
Patrick stated that yes there were sightings at the plant of unidentified
|
||
nature, and that the New York State Police investigated, and arrested 4 Cessna
|
||
pilots. Imbrogno checked to verify this, and police reports showed that NO one
|
||
had been arrested. The reporter requested that the plant release a copy of the
|
||
UFO incident report, and the plant refused on the basis that all reports were
|
||
kept confidential to protect security at the plant site.
|
||
|
||
Imbrogno stated several times after his book, written with Dr. J. Allen Hynek,
|
||
a former U. S. Airforce Consultant on UFO's, that Hynek wanted no mention of
|
||
any of the stranger aspects of these encounters mentioned in the book. Hynek,
|
||
prior to his death in 1986, had hoped to be able to determine just what was
|
||
occuring, but after he died, and the book was published, Imbrogno made mention
|
||
of the other aspects of the case. I have talked to him several times, and if
|
||
you have been following the uploads I am posting, you will see mention of
|
||
animal mutes, abductions and so forth. I do not know what is occuring,
|
||
however, anyone can see the fact that reports such as Indian Point are being
|
||
suppressed, and there is government interest. The security officers at this
|
||
plant would not manufacture reports such as these, especially with the
|
||
consequences that would occur if found out. The fact that the security systems
|
||
failed, communications failed, and the reported size of the object, points to
|
||
the fact that something outside of most of our experience is happening, and is
|
||
ongoing.
|
||
|
||
You asked Don Mason about the reported 2 or 3 MM spheres. This type of report
|
||
has surfaced in many of the reported abductions from all over the U. S. Since
|
||
Mason is right now on vacation, I will answer from what knowledge I presently
|
||
have. At this point, I do not know of any incident where one has been
|
||
recovered. Several months ago, I heard that one MIGHT have been recovered in
|
||
Europe, but no futher reports, so I have discounted it. The question about CAT
|
||
Scans however is a good one. I asked that myself to Imbrogno, and according to
|
||
what he told me, Bud Hopkins, who as you may know, studies the abduction
|
||
aspects of these cases, was going to have one of his cases studied by having a
|
||
CAT Scan completed. I did not hear anymore on this.
|
||
|
||
And so it goes................................
|
||
|
||
|
||
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||
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||
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|
||
|
||
Brd ->UFO Debate Forum
|
||
Numb ->112 of 124
|
||
Sub ->Re: Sphere
|
||
To ->MICHAEL GRAHAM (#107)
|
||
From ->DON MASON (#145)
|
||
Date ->09/11/88 12:41:52 AM
|
||
|
||
Mike to my knowledge none have been found with cat scan. However I might point
|
||
at this time, the only people that have been checked, were discovered to have
|
||
already had it removed. I don`t really consider myself well versed on the
|
||
implants, but have read some on it. Their may be findings that I`m not aware
|
||
of at this time. The cases that I know of the person had already had it removed
|
||
after a second abduction. It seems to that on the first abduction the
|
||
implanting takes place and then years (can be several to many)later the person
|
||
appears to be abducted the second time and then the implant is removed.
|
||
|
||
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|
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|
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Brd ->UFO Debate Forum
|
||
Numb ->113 of 124
|
||
Sub ->Re: Sphere
|
||
To ->DON MASON (#145)
|
||
From ->MICHAEL GRAHAM (#107)
|
||
Date ->09/11/88 11:40:39 AM
|
||
|
||
Ah, but a CAT scan would provide detail enough to provide a track
|
||
of scarring, even as small as a needle. There should be some
|
||
evidence of this in those victims that have had the probe
|
||
removed.
|
||
|
||
The tissue trauma should be especially evident in those cases
|
||
reporting nosebleed the following morning. Surely with all these
|
||
reported abductions, one must be able to provide passive proof of
|
||
the occurrence.BULLETIN
|
||
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Brd ->UFO Debate Forum
|
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Numb ->114 of 124
|
||
Sub ->Re: "Ducks & Saucers & Spheres"
|
||
To ->DON F ECKER (#17)
|
||
From ->MICHAEL GRAHAM (#107)
|
||
Date ->09/11/88 11:43:00 AM
|
||
|
||
I. My apologies to Don Ecker for neglecting to thoroughly
|
||
examine the account of Indian Point before raising the obvious
|
||
questions. Still, I will raise the objections because they are
|
||
good points and points of weakness.
|
||
|
||
A. Any account by a believing individual will, of
|
||
course, reflect that initial belief and sap the
|
||
efficacy of the account.
|
||
|
||
1. Night siege, in my opinion, seeks to
|
||
convince.
|
||
|
||
2. Imbrogno would seem a believer.
|
||
|
||
B. Any account by a skeptic will reflect that initial
|
||
skepticism and will emphasize the quotidian aspects of
|
||
a given incident.
|
||
|
||
1. Night Siege lacks that sarcastic quality
|
||
that I tend to associate with the other side
|
||
of the UFO argument.
|
||
|
||
2. The presentation of the material is such
|
||
that the authorities end up looking like
|
||
fools, instead of men doing their jobs.
|
||
|
||
C. The best accounts are given by impartial
|
||
paracletes, dedicated to accuracy and disdaining to
|
||
speculate.
|
||
|
||
1. I would say that Night Siege would best be
|
||
taken with another account of the same
|
||
incidents by a skeptic.
|
||
|
||
2. If no hard documentation of the incident
|
||
is found, some record, some film, some thing,
|
||
then an argument could be made, and made
|
||
well, for mass hysteria [hysteria is not the
|
||
same as panic, but often incorporates a
|
||
feeling of calm.]
|
||
|
||
3. Though mass hysteria is clearly a
|
||
ludicrous explanation, it would more likely
|
||
be accepted as easier to believe.
|
||
|
||
II. Missing data, purloined, concealed, or erased, does not
|
||
function as proof of an argument, however suggestive its absence
|
||
may seem.
|
||
|
||
A. Logically, a bar-x statement is true if and only if
|
||
x is false; subsequently if x is false, bar-x is true
|
||
and thus all statements not x function as true.
|
||
|
||
1. Eg: if {the car is green} is false, then
|
||
{not the car is green} is true, thus all
|
||
other colors for the car function as true
|
||
until they each in turn are proven false.
|
||
|
||
2. The missing documentation of Indian Point
|
||
functions as {not there is proof}, providing
|
||
such documentation is defined as proof and
|
||
proof as such documentation. The result is
|
||
that all other explanations except {there is
|
||
proof} become true, and must be eliminated
|
||
one by one. Night Siege, in my opinion, does
|
||
not achieve this end. ULLETIN
|
||
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||
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||
|
||
Brd ->UFO Debate Forum
|
||
Numb ->115 of 124
|
||
Sub ->Re: "Ducks & Saucers & Spheres"
|
||
To ->MICHAEL GRAHAM (#107)
|
||
From ->DON F ECKER (#17)
|
||
Date ->09/11/88 04:55:45 PM
|
||
|
||
Michael, it is apparent you still have not taken the time to read "Night
|
||
Siege". If anything Imbrogno is a skeptic, but how do we define what type of
|
||
skeptic? First, you imply that sarcasm is the criteria that an investigator
|
||
must use when investigating a case. I can imagine how far that would have
|
||
gotten me had I have used that technique when questioning wittnesses, while a
|
||
police officer!. Sorry Michael, that will not wash. What one uses is a
|
||
questioning mind, and trying all the angles to see what and what is not
|
||
possible. Let us not forget what the witnesses state that they observed. When
|
||
you have the THOUSANDS of accounts, I think then anyone of reasonable
|
||
intelligence must presume that something indeed out of the ordinary must be
|
||
occuring. Next, Imbrogno himself saw the object. Now to the question of what
|
||
type of skeptic is Imbrogno? Does he believe that these objects are
|
||
extraterr~rxQ,}:]_}
|
||
extraterrestial? No, and when Hynek was alive, he w,uld
|
||
he would not have allowed that type of thinking while researching the material.
|
||
Question, and question some more. Pratt and Imbrogno wanted this book to be a
|
||
testimony to Hynek, and if anything, they would draw no conclusions, untill all
|
||
the evidence was in. Well the book is published, and the evidence is still
|
||
pouring in. In any court of law the evidence would have been overwhelming over
|
||
the past 40 years.
|
||
|
||
You still question whether the government is concerned, or even investigating
|
||
this enigma. Well, for years the G has denied that they even concern
|
||
themselves with reports. Well, since the Freedom of Information Act or FOIA,
|
||
the Feds have been proven false. Well over 5000 documents have been received
|
||
from the Federal Government, from various agencies, that deal entirely with the
|
||
subject of UFO's. Military aircraft chases, overflights of military
|
||
installations, Federal Intelligence Agency reports, with many of the documents
|
||
being censored prior to release. You are too intelligent to believe otherwise
|
||
Michael, now I think you are merely in the debate simply for the enjoyment of
|
||
using your $1.25 vocabulary. Eh??
|
||
|
||
Don
|
||
|
||
|
||
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|
||
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|
||
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|
||
|
||
Brd ->UFO Debate Forum
|
||
Numb ->116 of 124
|
||
Sub ->Re: Sphere
|
||
To ->MICHAEL GRAHAM (#107)
|
||
From ->DON MASON (#145)
|
||
Date ->09/11/88 05:28:05 PM
|
||
|
||
Mike , not being a doctor I don`t know if cat-scan will detect scars or not,
|
||
all I know is that the people that are doing the investigating are doing so
|
||
with the help of people that are well trained in their jobs,(doctors,shrinks,
|
||
and etc.). These investigators also are not revealing everything to the
|
||
public at this time, they are just collecting all the information that is
|
||
possible, and looking at the picture from that point. I`m sure that once
|
||
they have established a pattern and motive from enough of the people that
|
||
have been abducted, they will then consider releasing more information to
|
||
the public. These investigators are being very careful as to what they say
|
||
until they feel that there is more than enough proof of what they suspect..
|
||
|
||
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|
||
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||
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||
|
||
Brd ->UFO Debate Forum
|
||
Numb ->117 of 124
|
||
Sub ->Re: "Ducks & Saucers & Spheres"
|
||
To ->DON F ECKER (#17)
|
||
From ->MICHAEL GRAHAM (#107)
|
||
Date ->09/12/88 09:08:02 AM
|
||
|
||
Whoa there, Tonto. Don't overthink the statements. I said that
|
||
Night Seige lacked that 'sarcastic quality' that I tend to
|
||
associate with skepticism. Sarcasm does not necessarily imply
|
||
mocking, it comes from LL. sarcasmos < Gr. sarkasmos < sarkazein,
|
||
to tear flesh like dogs, speak bitterly. It implies an intent to
|
||
ridicule, and I feel that the most revealing flaws of the cases
|
||
in question will come to light under such scathing ridicule.
|
||
Alternatively they will not, and the evidence will be stronger
|
||
for having been questioned. If you propose that officers of law
|
||
and militia do not engage in the practice of ridiculing the
|
||
testimony of witnesses, then obviously you've not the experience
|
||
I thought you had. Even lawyers employ such methods as rapid
|
||
cross-examination and attempt to obtain some contradictory
|
||
statement that, through its discrepancy, sheds light on the
|
||
truth. That, Don, washes clean as virgin snow.
|
||
|
||
Let me now introduce you to mass hysteria. Mass hysteria is not
|
||
panic, but it is irrational, though it proceeds at a very
|
||
rational step. Remember the Salem witch trials? Many more
|
||
accounts could be had of demons and dragons that roamed the town
|
||
at night than saucers and lights may be today in the Hudson
|
||
Valley. Read The June Bug Incident. A most notable quality of
|
||
mass hysteria, is that the people really believe, and that fads
|
||
pass through a populace like the smoke of a hidden fire.
|
||
Possession is the thing one week, poltergeists the next, dwarves
|
||
the third and everybody deadly serious about it, thousands of
|
||
them. Reputable, qualified, normally rational people, swore that
|
||
Satan walked the streets of Salem and they killed thousands of
|
||
innocent victims in the name of God as proof of their claims.
|
||
Who can provide me with solid, physical proof that this is not
|
||
the case in the Hudson Valley? Can you give me anything but
|
||
pictures, testimony, and missing tapes?K
|
||
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|
||
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|
||
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||
|
||
Brd ->UFO Debate Forum
|
||
Numb ->118 of 124
|
||
Sub ->Re: "Ducks & Saucers & Spheres"
|
||
To ->MICHAEL GRAHAM (#107)
|
||
From ->DON F ECKER (#17)
|
||
Date ->09/12/88 01:29:14 PM
|
||
|
||
Michael, Ok, I'll be Tonto, you are now Buckwheat, Ok?
|
||
|
||
|
||
|
||
All right, to answer your statement about sarcasm, I'll relate
|
||
what my Webster says.
|
||
SARCASM- to taunt; scoffing gibe; veiled sneer; irony; use of such
|
||
expression
|
||
|
||
Now if you think that a police officer initially uses such
|
||
techniques when questioning a witness to an event, you have
|
||
no knowledge of such tactics. Yes I will grant that there are
|
||
times when such techniques are used, such as when a citizen
|
||
is under investigation for a crime, or suspected of committing
|
||
a criminal act, however, to infer that this is the modus operandi
|
||
used each day by police officers shows that you do not
|
||
understand the tactics of interrogation.
|
||
|
||
Now let us look at < ridicule > Webster says;
|
||
|
||
RIDICULE- mockery; raillery;derision; vt to deride;
|
||
to mock; to make fun of:
|
||
|
||
Is this how you REALLY BELIEVE a serious investigation
|
||
should be conducted? Hey Buckwheat, did you go to the
|
||
Phill Klass school of UFO Debunking? Many of these
|
||
witnesses underwent a truely serious traumatic event,
|
||
regardless of what the events finally turn out to be.
|
||
No one HERE, or Imbrogno in Hudson Valley is suggesting
|
||
that the Hudson Valley craft is extraerrestrial, I don't
|
||
know what it is, and according to Imbrogno and Pratt, they
|
||
don't know what it is, however, it is. This object has
|
||
been sighted by thousands of people from all walks of life,
|
||
police, military, computer consultants, housewives,
|
||
ministers, priests, etc. but then I am sure you know that.
|
||
As far as other forms of proof, until the
|
||
"Proper Authorities" release what they have accumulated,
|
||
then I imagine no matter what other "proof" I offer, you will
|
||
find some objection.
|
||
|
||
My basic premise has been that the government knows much more
|
||
about what is occuring, and is accumulating documents by the
|
||
thousands, all the time. They have been proven to have lied,
|
||
by the Freedom of Information Act, and still maintain that the
|
||
various agencies under Federal control do not collect UFO
|
||
documents. Even when presented with their own documents, deny
|
||
any knowledge of UFO's, or the fact that they investigate such.
|
||
I call that a coverup, what would you call it?
|
||
|
||
You mention mass hysteria, and the Salem Witch Trials, and
|
||
people seeing dragons and demons, and dwarves, and it is my
|
||
understanding that some people still see such things if they
|
||
imbibe enough. However, we know such things to be figments
|
||
of the imagination. The Air Force never to my knowledge
|
||
chased a flying dragon, or much less launched air to air missles
|
||
at it. The same can not be said however about UFO's. Dragons
|
||
or demons have never been picked up on military radar, but
|
||
"Saucers" have. One last thing, Dragons have never caused a
|
||
military alert on a U. S. Military base, where Nuclear Weapons
|
||
are stored, but UFO's have. So, Michael, I will state once
|
||
again, I do not know what these craft are, but have no doubt
|
||
that they are here. Oh ya, you ended your last message by
|
||
asking that other than pictures, testimony, and missing tapes,
|
||
what else do I offer. Well, how about the fact that hundreds
|
||
have gone to the "chair" for execution on a lot less "evidence"
|
||
than the enigma of UFO's, and tons of documents dealing with the
|
||
subject of UFO's?
|
||
|
||
... ...-....
|
||
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|
||
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|
||
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||
|
||
Brd ->UFO Debate Forum
|
||
Numb ->119 of 124
|
||
Sub ->Where is Michael "Buckwheat" Grahm????????????????????
|
||
To ->All
|
||
From ->DON F ECKER (#17)
|
||
Date ->09/13/88 10:23:29 PM
|
||
|
||
Where is Michael? Did he become one of the abducted? I am beginning
|
||
to become worried. Usally he has bombarded the board with his synonyms.
|
||
Golly Beave, if "THEY" took him to Mars, will he be back in time for the
|
||
"RAPTURE"? Oh, NO, what if that in fact is where he did GO?? I guess I
|
||
better get of some missives to my ex's and hope they DO PUT IN A GOOD WORD!!
|
||
|
||
|
||
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|
||
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|
||
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|
||
|
||
Brd ->UFO Debate Forum
|
||
Numb ->120 of 124
|
||
Sub ->Re: Where is Michael "Buckwheat" Grahm????????????????????
|
||
To ->DON F ECKER (#17)
|
||
From ->MICHAEL GRAHAM (#107)
|
||
Date ->09/14/88 12:09:30 AM
|
||
|
||
No, no rapture, although My toes got wet when the sprinklers came on early [in
|
||
that I didn't realize it was late]. I'm about Night Sieged out, 'tho 'm go'n'a
|
||
post one more spurt of rhetoric to promote the general welfa. I think that
|
||
document 28 of Paranormal library 2 was well timed to illustrate my various
|
||
points.
|
||
|
||
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|
||
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|
||
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|
||
|
||
Brd ->UFO Debate Forum
|
||
Numb ->121 of 124
|
||
Sub ->Re: "Ducks & Saucers & Spheres"
|
||
To ->DON F ECKER (#17)
|
||
From ->MICHAEL GRAHAM (#107)
|
||
Date ->09/14/88 12:12:15 AM
|
||
|
||
You were probably a very good officer once, Don. I imagine that
|
||
you followed procedure correctly, that you were never rude to a
|
||
civilian, except in reply, and that each and every step of your
|
||
career was traced out by the ink of some moribund enchiridion. I
|
||
am sure you held a crypto clearance in the service and were privy
|
||
to a great many documents demonstrating the perfidious nature of
|
||
a multi-cellular governmental body but harsh ridicule produces
|
||
results when deception must be assumed. When police must verify
|
||
the truth of a matter, they use it. To the extent that they are
|
||
satisfied with the initial appearance of things, their probe is
|
||
shallow else it is deep to the extent of their dissatisfaction.
|
||
If the claims made are logically ridiculous, then they may be
|
||
proven by that ridiculous quality to be false unless, by reason
|
||
of irrefutable evidence, the claims stand despite their doubtful
|
||
nature.
|
||
|
||
Despite the agathokakological mystique that surrounds UFO's, and
|
||
the general willingness of the public to take to heart
|
||
assumptions hastily made, I'm sure the phenomenon was not
|
||
abiogenetic; It was caused by something. And most scientists,
|
||
including Carl Sagan, are not such victims of acclumsid
|
||
vellication that they dismiss 'out of hand' the existence of
|
||
UFO's, if indeed by UFO's you mean Unidentified Flying Objects.
|
||
The problem, of course is one of acronymic symbolism: UFO has
|
||
come to mean 'spacecraft.'
|
||
|
||
P.J. Imbrogno is well aware of this fact, and the method of
|
||
presentation, the very packaging of the book, suggest that is
|
||
exactly the assumption he would have us make, even as he insists
|
||
that it is not to be made. He is trying to convince with a
|
||
series of related incidents, not to question their nature.
|
||
|
||
The inferences to be made from my Salem example are most
|
||
pellucid; Your circumlocution of the point being made evinces an
|
||
acknowledgement on your part of the point's validity. I am
|
||
satisfied with that to the extent that it made the vast crossing
|
||
from mind to mind and disappointed to the extent that you did not
|
||
deign a more germane reply.
|
||
|
||
I think that you, perhaps, believe that I gain some odd
|
||
adlubescence by running this around in circles, that perhaps
|
||
pursuit is pointless with one who is so mercurial in his
|
||
allegiance, one minute for, one against, sometimes neither. I
|
||
want to believe. I have reason to believe. What there is for
|
||
proof, and the conclusions being drawn are linked with a bridge
|
||
of incondite logic, fogged throughout by the lurid fervor of
|
||
metaphysical superstition [as demonstrated by PARA lib #2, doc.
|
||
28]; the testimony and scratched sheets to silver oxides cry for
|
||
adscititious flesh, a substance for their ghost. Until that need
|
||
is filled, the wail of doubt must reign.
|
||
|
||
must reign.
|
||
|
||
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|
||
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|
||
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||
|
||
Brd ->UFO Debate Forum
|
||
Numb ->122 of 124
|
||
Sub ->Re: "Ducks & Saucers & Spheres"
|
||
To ->MICHAEL GRAHAM (#107)
|
||
From ->DON MASON (#145)
|
||
Date ->09/14/88 07:14:20 AM
|
||
|
||
Mike, speaking of doubt, as you did, makes me at times have doubt about you !!!
|
||
Is it seem to be a normal way of yours for making up for a complex that may
|
||
exist in your mind to try to overwhelm one with large words.
|
||
|
||
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|
||
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|
||
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|
||
|
||
Brd ->UFO Debate Forum
|
||
Numb ->123 of 124
|
||
Sub ->Re: "Ducks & Saucers & Spheres"
|
||
To ->DON MASON (#145)
|
||
From ->MICHAEL GRAHAM (#107)
|
||
Date ->09/14/88 10:25:57 AM
|
||
|
||
I've never apologized for my vocabulary, unless it gets in the way of
|
||
understanding. If I had thought it would overwhelm you, I would have toned it
|
||
down. Looking back at the message I left, the only word I can see that might
|
||
cause some problem of interpretation is agathokakological which simply means, a
|
||
mingling or 'with a mingling of good and evil.' It is, of course, an
|
||
adjective. Here's another on for you: xenodochial, the reverse of xenophobic.
|
||
xenophobic means afraid of strangers whereas xenodochial means friendly to
|
||
strangers. My computer recognizes all but....yeah, agathokakological, which is
|
||
one of those combinations you might only find in the O.E.D.. Now another fun
|
||
one which leaps to mind [you should never have gotten me on this] is
|
||
callipygian (adj) which means 'having shpely buttocks.' That might have
|
||
something to do with my mulierosity, 'being fond of women.' Oops, how about
|
||
this one: acersecomic, 'one who's hair has never been cut?' The mastery of
|
||
words is essential to concise communication, and aren't they fun -- they tast
|
||
good and are so good for you! And only twice the calories!
|
||
|
||
Michael K. Graham
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[B16 #123 of 124] ? for more cmds or Cmd [N]#n
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Brd ->UFO Debate Forum
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Numb ->124 of 124
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Sub ->Re: "Ducks & Saucers & Spheres"
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To ->MICHAEL GRAHAM (#107)
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From ->DON F ECKER (#17)
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Date ->09/14/88 11:48:17 AM
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Michael, once more, clouding the facts with
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his loquacity.
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"Gratiano speaks an an infinite deal of nothing
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more than any man in Venice; but his reasons
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are as two grains of wheat hid in two bushels
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of chaff; you seek all day ere you find them;
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and when you have them, they are not worth the
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search."
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Shakespeare.
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Moribud enchiridion indeed!
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Ok, now that the above is out of the way, just
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what did you say? "Harsh ridicule produces
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results when deception MUST BE ASSUMED". So
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you Michael, assume, that the many accounts
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from the Hudson Valley, running in the thousands
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I might add, are attempting to be deceptive just
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by their nature, and all these people are either
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lying, or are suffering from mass hysteria, or
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have mistaken natural phenomenon for an Unidentified
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Flying Object. Notice, I did not say spaceship, and
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as I have stated repeatedly, I don't know what this
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thing is, and neither does anyone else I am aware of.
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Well Buckwheat, that just won't wash. Why keep referring
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back to the Salem Witch Trials? What you are dealing
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with there, is a case close to 400 years old, and
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the people involved were religious intolerants, not
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to mention, most of them did not have a sense of humor!
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Using your logic, the Holocaust during the Second World
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War must never have happened. I mean after all Michael
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what "proof" is there? Just some photographs, and some
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testimony, but after all, you weren't there to see it.
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I submit you better go find a couple of survivors, and
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apply your caustic methods of interrogation at them.
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Lets find out what really went on, OK?
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Now, once more, with feeling, lets take it from the
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top. I am not suggesting that what is occuring in the
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Hudson Valley is a "spaceship", what I am saying is that
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something, however, is occuring. Suggesting that all these
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thousands of witnesses , miles and miles apart, are seeing
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the same hallucination, is ludicrous. I don't really believe
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that you really believe it, do you?
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...........
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[B16 #124 of 124] ? for more cmds or Cmd [N]# think that you, perhaps, believe that I gain some odd
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adlubescence by running this around in circles, that perhaps
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pursuit is pointless with one who is so mercurial in his
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allegiance, one minute for, one against, sometimes neither. I
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want to believe. I have reason to believe. What there is for
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proof, and the conclusions being drawn are linked with a bridge
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of incondite logic, fogged throughout by the lurid fervor of
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metaphysical superst
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