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PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 07/14 1:29 AM
Number of notes exported: 75
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB ^^^^^^^^^^^^
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Topic: ROBERT JORDAN ^^^^^^^^^^^^
=============== Note 1 =================
Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB
Topic: ROBERT JORDAN
Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS
To: ALL Date: 05/21
From: YXXB37B CHRISTOPHER MARTY Time: 2:20 AM
Just a thought, but when Rand finally does go to Tar Valon,
and looks upon Dragonmount, will he see himself (Lews
Therin) dying thousands of years in the past?Could this be
another Lews "trying to take over point" in the story?
- Ishamael.
=============== Reply 1 of Note 1 =================
Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB
Topic: ROBERT JORDAN
Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS
To: YXXB37B CHRISTOPHER MARTY Date: 05/23
From: YGNK21A JAMES MOCK SR Time: 1:41 AM
Who knows? ( besides Robert Jordan ) Maybe the stronger
the flashback, the stronger the hold Lews Therin Telamon has
over Rands personality. And seeing his own death would
certainly be very strong.
=============== Reply 2 of Note 1 =================
Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB
Topic: ROBERT JORDAN
Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS
To: YGNK21A JAMES MOCK SR Date: 05/23
From: YXXB37B CHRISTOPHER MARTY Time: 10:22 PM
I've also noticed that the more Rand channels, the more
Lews tries to take over. If there is a Power war near Tar
Valon, couldn't this place, above all else (except Shayol
Ghul) be the place for Lews to finally take over? I think
so.
- Ishamael.
=============== Reply 3 of Note 1 =================
Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB
Topic: ROBERT JORDAN
Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS
To: YXXB37B CHRISTOPHER MARTY Date: 05/24
From: YGNK21A JAMES MOCK SR Time: 2:07 AM
It's possible. I think it would also depend on what he
tries to channel, such as how much he tries to channel. But
I'm not quite sure Lews is totally going to take over. Not
because of anything in the story, I just don't think Rand
al'Thor will disappear from the scene. I just can't wait to
find out how R. Jordan will right it.
=============== Reply 4 of Note 1 =================
Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB
Topic: ROBERT JORDAN
Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS
To: YGNK21A JAMES MOCK SR Date: 05/26
From: YXXB37B CHRISTOPHER MARTY Time: 11:07 PM
I don't think Rand willdissappear either. Maybe there will
be some points where Lews is stronger, but in the end Rand
will be the main personality. Oh, just realized- what if,
in the end after the DO is killed or driven off, Lews is
still in Rand's mind? Would he just go on living, having a
second person inside him?
- Ishamael.
=============== Reply 5 of Note 1 =================
Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB
Topic: ROBERT JORDAN
Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS
To: YXXB37B CHRISTOPHER MARTY Date: 05/29
From: HCPX23C KYRA JUCOVY Time: 6:37 PM
I just thought - wouldn't Dragonmount be a good place for
Rand to get Lews out of his mind? It could be that Lews'
memories get stronger and stronger, and then finally, right
before he takes over Rand, the memory of his death comes and
banishes those Lews memories for good.
=============== Reply 6 of Note 1 =================
Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB
Topic: ROBERT JORDAN
Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS
To: HCPX23C KYRA JUCOVY Date: 05/29
From: YGNK21B JAMES MOCK Time: 7:01 PM
Here is an idea. Lews will remain with Rand long enough to
fight the Dark One. Then if Rand/Lews is still alive Rand
al'Thor will be the dominant personality.
=============== Reply 7 of Note 1 =================
Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB
Topic: ROBERT JORDAN
Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS
To: HCPX23C KYRA JUCOVY Date: 05/29
From: YXXB37B CHRISTOPHER MARTY Time: 7:14 PM
Either he'll (Lews) will somehow die out by seeing his own
death, or he'll go crazy by remembering what he did even
more. For that, I guess we will hear a lot of "Ilyena,
forgive me!!"
- Ishamael.
=============== Reply 8 of Note 1 =================
Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB
Topic: ROBERT JORDAN
Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS
To: YXXB37B CHRISTOPHER MARTY Date: 06/02
From: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Time: 1:50 PM
You're all wrong, there's no other personality trying to
take over Rand. Ya, ya. right. Bar tender, one more round!
I can quite, anytime. Denial, that's the way to go.
Actually, it SAYS in several spots:
"let the Promised One be born of the mountain, according
to the prophecies as he was in ages past and will be in
ages to come..."
"yet one shall be born to face the Shadow born once more
as he was born before and shall be born gain, time without
end."
"And his paths shall be many, and who shall know his
name, for he shall be born among us many times, inmany
guises, as he has been and ever will be, time without end."
Note the HE not THEY. If Rand was a composite entity, they
would be a composite of different souls. Rand isn't. Rand
is Lews. Rand is every Promised One of every Age of every
Turning. There is one entity that is born again and again
to fight the Dark One. As a matter of fact, in TSR, Egwene
expresses the belief that everyone is reborn again in the
next Age. I don't have the quote on hand, but I can post
it if necessary. Moiraine
=============== Reply 9 of Note 1 =================
Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB
Topic: ROBERT JORDAN
Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS
To: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Date: 06/02
From: YXXB37B CHRISTOPHER MARTY Time: 11:40 PM
Pardon me my friends but I'm going to go hang myself in my
living room...DRAT! Why is it that I always miss one
thing-the most important thing, of course. Okay, then. If
Rand is the "One" in all places, all time, then if he went
to another world through a Portal Stone he would not find
another Rand there? I think it said something of "other
exact dimensions" or something of the like with the >>>
same people. Like the old Superman vs. bad Superman duel in
an exact backward dimension.
- Ishamael.
=============== Reply 10 of Note 1 =================
Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB
Topic: ROBERT JORDAN
Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS
To: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Date: 06/02
From: YXXB37B CHRISTOPHER MARTY Time: 11:41 PM
By the way bartender, I think I'll definitely have another
one. Zima, no ice please.
- Ishamael.
=============== Reply 11 of Note 1 =================
Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB
Topic: ROBERT JORDAN
Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS
To: YXXB37B CHRISTOPHER MARTY Date: 06/03
From: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Time: 5:04 PM
I think like the Amber series, the Mirrors of the Wheel are
only pale immitations of the real world. And I think Verin
said that if the Dark One was let out in one mirror he would
be let out in all realities. We haven't discussed the
various worlds/realities of (sarcastically) "Randland."
Moiraine
=============== Reply 12 of Note 1 =================
Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB
Topic: ROBERT JORDAN
Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS
To: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Date: 06/17
From: HCPX23C KYRA JUCOVY Time: 10:42 PM
I wasn't excactly aurguing this point. In fact, you are
probably right. I believe, however, that Rand is having a
little trouble with his memories. Wouldn't you be rather
surprised if you remembered things that you believed never
happened to you. It doesn't really matter that it's Rand's
memories, it only matters that Rand believes that it's
impossible for him to remember them. Perhaps when Rand goes
to Dragonmount he will become at peace with his memories
after remembering his death. Of course, he might go mad,
like I would (G).
---Adora Aybara
=============== Reply 13 of Note 1 =================
Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB
Topic: ROBERT JORDAN
Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS
To: HCPX23C KYRA JUCOVY Date: 06/18
From: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Time: 6:16 PM
Yes, I agree, it's how he looks at his new memories. He
views them as alien, thus they have been given the persona,
Lews. Make sure to export the prophecies AND everything you
find in "BEHOLD." You'll love it. Moiraine
=============== Note 2 =================
Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB
Topic: ROBERT JORDAN
Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS
To: ALL Date: 06/17
From: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Time: 11:53 AM
<note 1 of 2>
For all those dimwits who haven't gotten around to
subscribing to The Chronicles or haven't obtained their
free copy, here is the compilation of all the Prophecies of
WoT. Export it-or be banished from the Light forever!
Moiraine
History, Prophecy, Foretellings, Dreams, Viewings,
information from predictive Ter'angreal, and Eelfinn wishes
A complete compilation of predictive passages from EOW-FOH
May 29, 1994
by Carolyn Fusinato with the help of Richard S. Millard's
October, 92 compilation and the Internet's FAQ
1. Histories from the Fourth Age.
2. Prophecy.
i. The Karaethon Cycle.
a. portions of the Karaethon Cycle as recounted by
various characters
b. commentaries and translations from the Third Age
on the Karaethon Cycle
ii. prophecy pertaining to a certain people.
a. The Jendai Prophecy.
b. The Prophecy of Rhuidean
iii. dark prophecy.
a. Verin's interpretation of the dark prophecy
iv. Prophecy of the Horn of Valere.
3. Foretellings.
ii. Elaida's Foretellings.
ii. Diendre's Foretellings.
iii. Gitara Moroso's Foretellings.
4. Dreams.
i. Egwene's dreams.
ii. Perrin's dreams.
iii. Wise One's dreams.
iv. Morin's dreams
v. Sorelle's dreams.
vi. Rand's dreams.
5. Visions.
i. Min's visions.
ii. Aelfinn's visions
a. Mat's questions and the Eelfinn's answers
b. What we know of Rand's answers
c. What we know of Moiraine's answers
6. Ter'angreal used by the Wise Ones in Rhuidean.
i. Aviendha.
ii. Moiraine.
7. Eelfinn.
1. Histories from the Fourth Age. I have nothing to
add to Mr. Millard's analysis on why these must be included
as prophetic fragments towards Rand's future. Certainly, as
he said, it must be taken into consideration that the
passing of time might perhaps distort the amount of
credible information that they provide. This is actually
covered in the series during a conversation on the
distortion of history between Thom and Elayne (TSR, Chapter
20, p230-231) on the Wavedancer. Additionally, the fact has
been reinforced in each book during the beginning paragraph
of the first chapter.
=============== Reply 1 of Note 2 =================
Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB
Topic: ROBERT JORDAN
Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS
To: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Date: 06/17
From: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Time: 12:03 PM
<note 2 of 22>
1.01 <EOW, Prologue, Dragonmount, xv>
"And the Shadow fell upon the Land, and the World was riven
stone from stone. the oceans fled, and the mountains were
swallowed up, and the nations were scattered to the eight
corners of the World. The moon was blood, and the sun was
as ashes. The seas boiled, and the living envied the dead.
All was shattered, all but memory lost, and one memory
above all others, of him who brought the Shadow and the
breaking of the world. And they named him Dragon." (from
Aleth nin Taerin alta Camora, The Breaking of the World.
Author unknown, the Fourth Age)
1.02 <EOW, prologue, Dragonmount, xv>
"And it came to pass in those days, as it had come before
and would come again, that the Dark lay heavy on the land
and weighed down the hearts of men, and the green things
failed, and hope died. And men cried out to the Creator,
saying, O Light of the Heavens, Light of the World, let the
Promised One be born of the mountain, according to the
prophecies, as he was in ages past and will be in ages to
come. Let the Prince of the Morning sing to the land that
green things will grow and the valleys give forth lambs.
Let the arm of the Lord of the Dawn shelter us from the
Dark, and the great sword of justice defend us. Let the
Dragon ride again on the winds of time." (from Charal
Drianaan te Calamon, The Cycle of the Dragon. Author
unknown, the Fourth Age) [a portion of this ("And men cried
out to the...the winds of time.) was also on p577, TGH,
Chapter 50, After]
1.03 <TDR, Chapter 56, People of the Dragon, p675>
"And it was written that no hand but his should wield the
Sword held in the Stone, but he did draw it out, like fire
in his hand, and his glory did burn the world. Thus did it
begin. Thus do we sing his Rebirth. Thus do we sing the
beginning." (from Do'in Toldara te, Songs of the Last Age,
Quarto Nine: The Legend of the Dragon Composed by Boanne,
Songmistress at Taralan, the Fourth Age)
1.04 <TSR, Chapter 58, The Traps of Rhuidean, p681>
"And when the blood was sprinkled on ground where nothing
could grow, the Children of the Dragon did spring up, the
People of the Dragon, armed to dance with death. And he
did call them forth from the wasted lands, and they did
shake the world with battle." (from The Wheel of Time by
Sulamein so Bhagad Chief Historian at the Court of the
Sun, the Fourth Age.)
2. Prophecy. Much as Mr. Millard says, the prophecies
of the Wheel of Time are often the most reliable and
revealing sources of information given to us. The prophecy
most central to the books, the Karaethon Cycle, is perhaps
the best supplied. However, other prophecies which must
come into consideration number, the Jendai Prophecy (The
Sea Folk Prophecy), The Prophecy of Rhuidean (Aiel
Prophecy), the Dark Prophecy found in Fal Dara, and the
Cycle of the Horn. Included in this compilation is a
passage from Vandene analyzing portions of the Karaethon
Cycle and a passage from Verin that analyzes the Dark
Prophecy. Both analysis provide the vital information
needed to comprehend the complete import of the
respective prophecies.
=============== Reply 2 of Note 2 =================
Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB
Topic: ROBERT JORDAN
Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS
To: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Date: 06/17
From: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Time: 12:03 PM
<note 3 of 22>
i. The Karaethon Cycle
a. portions of the Karaethon Cycle as recounted by
various characters
2.01 <EOW, Chapter 13, pp158-159>
"One of the Prophecies says that the Stone of Tear will
never fall until the People of the Dragon come to the
Stone. Another says the Stone will never fall until the
Sword That Cannot be Touched is wielded by the Dragon's
hand...The Fall of the Stone will be one of the major
signs that the Dragon has been reborn.(fulfilled)" (From
the Prophecies of the Dragon, as related by Thom Merrilin
to Rand al'Thor).
2.02 <TGH, Chapter 5, The Shadow in Shienar, p56>
"For he shall come like the breaking dawn, and shatter the
world again with his coming, and make it anew.(uncertain)"
(quoted by Siuan Sanche, (then)The Amyrlin Seat raised
from the Blue Ajah).
2.03. <TGH, Chapter 26, Discord, p387>&<TSR, Chapter 9,
Decisions, p180>
"Twice and twice shall he be marked,
Twice to live, and twice to die,
Once the heron to set his path.(fulfilled)
Twice the heron, to name him true.(fulfilled)
Once the Dragon for remembrance lost.(fulfilled)
Twice the Dragon for the price he must
pay.(uncertain)"(quoted by Thom Merrilin to Rand al'Thor
in Cairhien)
2.04 <TGH, Chapter 26, Discord, p387>
"Twice dawns the day when his blood is shed.
Once for mourning, once for birth.
Red on black, the Dragon's blood stains the rock of Shayol
Ghul.
In the Pit of Doom shall his blood free men from the
Shadow.(unfulfilled)"(quoted by Thom Merrilin to Rand
al'Thor in Cairhien)
2.05 <TGH, Chapter 8, The Dragon Reborn, p110>
"When the winds of Tarmon Gai'don scour the earth, he will
face the Shadow and bring forth Light again in the
world.(unfulfilled)" (quoted by Siuan Sanche, The Amyrlin
Seat)
2.06 <TGH, Chapter 22, Watchers, p275>
"Five ride forth, and four return. Above the watchers
shall he proclaim himself, bannered cross the sky in
fire.(fulfilled)" (quoted by Vandene, Aes Sedai of the
Brown Ajah).
2.07 <TDR, Chapter 6, The Hunt Begins, p57>
"He has yet to break the nations, or shatter the world.
Even scholars who have studied the Prophecies for their
entire lives do not know how to interpret them all. What
does it mean that he shall 'slay his people with the sword
of peace, and destroy them with the leaf'(unfulfilled)?
What does it mean that he 'shall bind the nine moons to
serve him'(unfulfilled)? Yet these there are given equal
weight with Callandor in the Cycle. There are others. What
'wound of madness and cutting of hope'(uncertain) has he
healed? What chains has he broken, and who put into
chains?(fulfilled)" (quoted by Moiraine Damodred, Aes
Sedai of the Blue Ajah)
2.08 <TSR,Chapter 3, Reflection, p71>
"His blood on the rocks of Shayol Ghul, washing away the
Shadow, sacrifice for man's
=============== Reply 3 of Note 2 =================
Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB
Topic: ROBERT JORDAN
Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS
To: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Date: 06/17
From: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Time: 12:03 PM
<note 4 of 22>
salvation.(unfulfilled)"(quoted by Rand al'Thor)
2.09 <TSR, Chapter 6, Doorways, p131>
"Power of the Shadow made human flesh,
wakened to turmoil, strife and ruin.(fulfilled)
The Reborn One, marked and bleeding,
dances the sword in dreams and mist,
chains the Shadowsworn to his will,(fulfilled)
from the city, lost and forsaken,
leads the spears to war once more,(fulfilled)
breaks the spears(unfulfilled) and makes them see,
truth long hidden in the ancient
dream.(unfulfilled)"(quoted by Moiraine Damodred, Aes
Sedai of the Blue Ajah)
2.10 <TSR, Chapter 21, Into the Heart, p239>
"There was no guide to how they were connected, or what
they were supposed to do; the Prophecies never mentioned
companions."(Moiraine's thoughts in the Heart of the
Stone)
2.11 <TSR, Chapter 21, Into the Heart, p244>
"Into the heart he thrusts his sword,
into the heart, to hold their hearts.(fulfilled)
Who draws it out shall follow after,
What hand can grasp that fearful blade?(uncertain)"
(quoted by Rand al'Thor)
b. commentaries and translations from the Third Age on
the Karaethon Cycle
2.12 <TGH, ix>
"And it shall come to pass that what men made shall be
shattered, and the Shadow shall lie across the Pattern of
the Age, and the Dark One shall once more lay his hand
upon the world of man. Women shall weep and men quail as
the nations of the earth are rent like rotting cloth.
Neither shall anything stand nor abide...
"Yet one shall be born to face the Shadow, born once more
as he was born before and shall be born again, time
without end. The Dragon shall be Reborn, and there shall
he clothe the people, and he shall break the world again
by his coming, tearing apart all ties that bind. Like the
unfettered dawn shall he blind us, and burn us, yet shall
the Dragon Reborn confront the Shadow at the Last battle,
and his blood shall give us the Light. Let tears flow, O
ye people of the world. Weep for your salvation." (from
The Karaethon Cycle: The Prophecies of the Dragon,as
translated by Ellaine Marise'idin Alshinn, Chief Librarian
at the Court of Arafel, in the Year of Grace 231 of the
New Era, the Third Age.)
2.13 <TGH, Chapter 22, Watchers, p275>
"'Five ride forth, and four return. Above the watchers
shall he proclaim himself, bannered cross the sky in
fire...' Well, it goes on. The point is, the word ma'vron.
I say it should be translated not simply as 'watchers,'
which is a'vron. Ma'vron has more importance to it. I say
it means the Watchers Over the Waves, though they call
themselves Do Miere A'vron, of course, not Ma'vron...But I
believe it means the Dragon Reborn will appear somewhere
above Toman Head, in Arad Doman, or Saldaea." (related by
Vandene, Aes Sedai of the Brown Ajah)
2.14 <TDR, ix>
"And his paths shall be many, and who shall know his name,
=============== Reply 4 of Note 2 =================
Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB
Topic: ROBERT JORDAN
Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS
To: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Date: 06/17
From: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Time: 12:03 PM
<note 5 of 22>
for he shall be born among us many times, in many guises,
as he has been and ever will be, time without end. His
coming shall be like the sharp edge of the plow, turning
our lives in furrows from out of the places where we lie
in our silence. The breaker of bonds; the forger of
chains. The maker of futures; the unshaper of destiny."
(from Commentaries on the Prophecies of the Dragon, by
Jurith Dorine, Right Hand to the Queen of Almoren, 742 AB,
the Third Age.)
2.15 <TSR, p9>
"The Shadow shall rise across the world, and darken every
land, even to the smallest corner, and there shall be
neither Light nor safety. And he who shall be born of the
Dawn, born of the Maiden, according to Prophecy, he shall
stretch forth his hands to catch the Shadow, and the world
shall scream in the pain of salvation. All Glory be to the
Creator, and to the Light, and to he who shall be born
again. May the Light save us from him." (from Commentaries
on the Karaethon Cycle Sereine dar Shamelle Motara
Counsel-Sister to Comaelle, High Queen of Jaramide (circa
325 AB), the Third Age)
2.16 <FOH, p9>
"With his coming are the dread fires born again. The hills
burn, and the land turns sere. The tides of men run out,
and the hours dwindle. The wall is pierced, and the veil
of parting raised. Storms rumble beyond the horizon, and
the fires of heaven purge the earth. There is no salvation
without destruction, no hope this side of death."
(fragment from The Prophecies of the Dragon believed
traslated by N'Delia Basolaine First Maid and Sword fast
to Raidhen of Hol Cuchone (circa 400 AB))
ii. prophecy pertaining to a certain people.
a. The Jendai Prophecy
2.17 <TSR, Chapter 19, The Wavedancer, pp220-221>
"He can wield the One Power, so I have heard, and he holds
the Sword That Cannot Be Touched. The Aiel have come over
the Dragonwall to his call; I have seen several in the
streets, and it is said they fill the Stone. The Stone of
Tear has fallen, and war breaks over the nations of the
land. Those who once ruled have returned, and been driven
back for the first time. Prophecy is being fulfilled."
<p220>(fulfilled)
"The Prophecy is being fulfilled. He is the Coramoor. Aes
Sedai serve him(fulfilled). You are proof of that, that
you are here in this city. That is in the Prophecy as
well. 'The White Tower shall be broken by his name, and
Aes Sedai shall kneel to wash his feet and dry them with
their hair.(uncertain)'"<p221>(quoted by Coine din Jubai
Wild Winds, Sailsmistress of the Wavedancer)
b. The Prophecy of Rhuidean
2.18 <TGH, Chapter 28, A New Thread In The Pattern, p346>
"One of the old prophecies says that if ever we fail Aes
Sedai again, they will slay us.(unfulfilled)"(related by
Urien of the Two Spires sept of the Reyn Aiel)
2.19 <TGH, Chapter 28, A New Thread In The Pattern, p347>
"He will come from the west, beyond the Spine of the
World, but be of our blood(fulfilled). He will go to
Rhuidean, and lead us out of the Three-fold
=============== Reply 5 of Note 2 =================
Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB
Topic: ROBERT JORDAN
Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS
To: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Date: 06/17
From: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Time: 12:03 PM
<note 6 of 22>
Land(fulfilled)...In the dirt Urien scraped a circle with
his spearpoint, then drew across it a sinuous line. 'It is
said that under this sign, he will conquer.(fulfilled)'"
(related by Urien, of the Two Spirers sept of the Reyn Aiel)
2.20 <TSR, Reflection, Chapter 3, p74>
"In your Prophecies of the Dragon, the fall of the Stone
and the taking of Callandor proclaim that the Dragon has
been Reborn. Our prophecy says only that the Stone must
fall before He Who Comes With the Dawn appears to take us
back to what was ours. They may be one man, but I doubt
even the Wise Ones could say for sure. If Rand is the one,
there are things he must do yet to prove it."
2.21 <TSR, Chapter 25, The Road To The Spear, p286>
"That one will come later...The stone that never falls
will fall to announce his coming.(fulfilled) Of the blood,
but not raised by the blood(fulfilled), he will come from
Rhuidean at dawn, and tie you together with bonds you
cannot break(fulfilled). He will take you back, and he
will destroy you(uncertain)." (heard by Rand al'Thor as
Mandein)
2.22 <TSR, Chapter 34, He Who Comes With The Dawn, p394>
"...Without you, no one of our people will live beyond the
Last Battle. Perhaps not even until the Last Battle. 'He
shall spill out the blood of those who call themselves
Aiel as water on sand, and he shall break them as dried
twigs, yet the remnant of a remnant shall he save, and
they shall live.(unfulfilled)'"(quoted by Bair, of the
Haido sept of the Shaarad Aiel)
2.23 <TSR, Chapter 57, A Breaking in the Three-fold Land,
p665>
"Born of the Blood, but raised by those not of the
Blood.(fulfilled)" (quoted by Rand al'Thor)
iii. dark prophecy.
2.24 <TGH, Chapter 7, Blood Calls Blood, p89>
"Daughter of the Night, she walks again.(fulfilled)
The ancient war, she yet fights
Her new lover she seeks, who shall serve her and die, yet
serve still. (unfulfilled-validity as prophecy
questionable)
Who shall stand against her coming?
The Shining Walls shall kneel.(unfulfilled)
Blood feeds blood.
Blood calls blood.
Blood is, and blood was, and blood shall ever be.
The man who channels stands alone.
He gives his friends for sacrifice.
Two roads before him, one to death beyond dying, one to
life eternal.
Which will he choose? Which will he choose?
What hand shelters? What hand slays?
Blood feeds blood.
Blood calls blood.
Blood is, and blood was, and blood shall ever be.
Luc came to the Mountains of Dhoom.
Isam waited in the high passes.
The hunt is now begun. The Shadow's hounds now course, and
kill.
=============== Reply 6 of Note 2 =================
Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB
Topic: ROBERT JORDAN
Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS
To: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Date: 06/17
From: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Time: 12:03 PM
<note 7 of 22>
One did live, and one did die, but both are.(fulfilled)
The Time of Change has come.(unfulfilled)
Blood feeds blood.
Blood calls blood.
Blood is, and blood was, and blood shall ever be.
The Watchers wait on Toman's Head.(fulfilled)
The seed of the Hammer burns the ancient tree.(fulfilled)
Death shall sow, and summer burn, before the Great Lord
comes.
Death shall reap, and bodies fail, before the Great Lord
comes.
Again the seed slays ancient wrong, before the Great Lord
comes.(unfulfilled)
Now the Great Lord comes.
Now the Great Lord comes.
Blood feeds blood.
Blood calls blood.
Blood is, and blood was, and blood shall ever be.
Now the Great Lord comes.(unfulfilled)" (Prophecy of the
Shadow found on the dungeon walls at Fal Dara, as
translated by Verin Mathwin, Aes Sedai of the Brown Ajah.)
a. Verin's interpretation of the dark prophecy
2.25 <TGH, Chapter 7, Blood Calls Blood, pp90-92>
"'Daughter of the Night, she walks again.' That can only
mean Lanfear is loose again. Or someone wants us to think
she is...Other names are clear, too, Mother. Lord Luc, of
course, was brother to Tigraine, then the Daughter-Heir of
Andor, and he vanished in the Blight. Who Isam is, or what
he has to do with Luc, I do not know, however...("Isam had
been the son of Breyan, wife of Lain Mandragoran, whose
attempt to seize the throne of Malkier for her husband had
brought the Trolloc hordes crashing down. Breyan and her
infant son had both vanished when the Trollocs overran
Malkier. And Isam had been blood kin to Lan. Or is blood
kin? I must keep this from him, until I know how he will
react. Until we are away from the Blight. If he thought
Isam were alive..[Moiraine's thoughts].") 'The Watcher's
wait on Toman's Head,'...There are a few who still cling
to the old belief that the armies Artur Hawkwing sent
across the Aryth Ocean will return one day, though after
all this time...The Do Miere A'vron, the Watchers Over the
Waves, still have a...community is the best word, I
suppose...on Toman Head, at Falme. And one of the old
names for Artur Hawkwing was Hammer of the Light...Now,
'the ancient tree,'...There have always been rumors-no
more than that-that while the nation of Almoth still
lived, they had a branch of Avendesora, perhaps even a
living sapling. and the banner of Almoth was 'blue for the
sky above, black for the earth below, with the spreading
Tree of Life to join them.' Of course, Taraboners call
themselves the Tree of Man, and claim to be descended from
rulers and nobles in the Age of Legends. And Domani claim
descent from those who made the Tree of Life in the Age of
Legends. There are other possibilities, but you will note,
Mother, that at least three center around Almoth Plain and
Toman Head...The Time of Change, of course, refers to the
end of an Age, and the Great Lord-" (quoted from Verin
Mathwin, Aes Sedai of the Brown Ajah)
=============== Reply 7 of Note 2 =================
Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB
Topic: ROBERT JORDAN
Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS
To: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Date: 06/17
From: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Time: 12:09 PM
<note 8 of 22>
iv. Prophecy of the Horn of Valere.
2.26 <EOW, Chapter 26, Whitebridge, p389>
"In the last, lorn fight
'gainst the fall of long night,(unfulfilled)
the mountains stand guard,
and the dead shall be ward,
for the grave is no bar to my call."(Thom reciting a verse
from The Great Hunt of the Horn)
2.27 <EOW, Chapter 53, The Wheel Turns, p655>
"There are Darkfriends still, as well as Halfmen and
Trollocs, and those who come to the horn will follow
whoever winds it." (Moiraine speaking to Lord Agelmar in
Fal Dara)
2.28 <TGH, Chapter 5, The Shadow in Shienar, p55>
"Agelmar was familiar with the Prophecy of the Horn; most
who fought the Dark One were. "'Let whosoever sounds me
think not of glory, but only of salvation.'"(Moiraine
speaking with Suian)
2.29 <TGH, Chapter 47, The Grave Is No Bar To My Call, p560>
"'The Pattern weaves itself around our necks like
halters,' Artur Hawkwing said. 'You are here. The banner
is here. The weave of this moment is set. We have come to
the Horn, but we must follow the banner. And the
Dragon.(fulfilled)'" (Artur Hawkwing speaking to Rand
al'Thor at Falme)
3. Foretellings. Mr. Millard did not place specific
emphasis on the various Foretellings mentioned in the
Wheel of Time, however they should be given equal weight
with Dreaming, Viewings, and Prophecy as predictive of
future events.
ii. Elaida's Foretellings.
3.01 <EOW, Chapter 40, The Web Tightens, p514>
"...From this day Andor marches toward pain and division.
The Shadow has yet to darken to its blackest, and I cannot
see if the Light will come after. Where the world has wept
one tear, it will weep thousands...Pain and division come
to the whole world, and this man stands at the heart of
it.(uncertain)"(Elaida's Foretelling of Rand al'Thor in
Caemlyn)
3.02 <TSR, Seeds of Shadow, Chapter 1, p29>
"The very first thing Elaida had ever Foretold, while
still an Accepted-and had known enough even then to keep
to herself-was that the Royal line of Andor would be the
key to defeating the Dark One in the Last
Battle.(uncertain)" (from Elaida do Avriny a'Roihan's,
(then) Aes Sedai of the Red Ajah, thoughts in Tar Valon.)
ii. Diendre's Foretellings.
3.03 <TSR, Chapter 26, The Dedicated, p300>
"Besides, the Da'shain yet have a part to play, if Deindre
could only see far enough to say what.(unfulfilled)"<p300>
"You will carry the...things...to safety, Jonai. Keep
moving, always keep moving, until you find a place of
safety, where no once can harm you.(fulfilled)"<p301>
"Keep the Covenant, Jonai. If the Da'shain lose everything
else, see they keep the Way of the Leaf. Promise me."<p301>
"...And remember-keep moving. Keep the Aiel safe."(related
by Solinda Sedai during the Breaking)<p301>
=============== Reply 8 of Note 2 =================
Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB
Topic: ROBERT JORDAN
Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS
To: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Date: 06/17
From: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Time: 12:09 PM
<note 9 of 22>
iii. Gitara Moroso's Foretellings.
3.04 <TGH, Chapter 8, The Dragon Reborn, p109>
"He is born again! I feel him! The Dragon takes his first
breath on the slope of Dragonmount! He is coming! He is
coming! Light help us! Light help the World! He lies in
the snow and cries like the thunder! He burns like the
sun!(fulfilled)" (Foretelling by Gitara Moroso, (then)
Keeper of the Chronicles)
3.05 <TSR, Chapter 34, He Who Comes With The Dawn, p392>
"...disaster would befall her land and her people, perhaps
the world, unless she went to dwell among the Maidens of
the Spear, telling no one of her going. She[Tigraine] must
become a Maiden, and she could not return to her own land
until the Maidens had gone to Tar Valon.(fulfilled)"
(related by Tigraine, (then) Daughter-Heir of Andor (also
known as Shaiel) to Amys, of the Nine Valleys sept of the
Taardad Aiel, and by Amys to Rand al'Thor)
4. Dreams. Between Egwene and Perrin's dreams, we
discover perhaps more combined then through any other
prophetic passeges in the entire series. In some ways they
predict a greater scope of what is to come, but in most
cases, the dream is fulfilled in the book it premiere's
in. Just for reference, the Wise Ones on dreaming; "Almost
anyone can touch Tel'aran'rhiod, but few can truly enter
it. Of all the Wise Ones, we four alone can dreamwalk, and
your Tower has not produced a dreamwalker in nearly five
hundred years. It is not a thing of the One Power, though
Aes Sedai believe it is. I cannot channel, nor can Seana,
yet we dreamwalk as well as Amys or Melaine. Many people
brush the World of Dreams in their sleep. Because they
only brush against it, they wake with aches or pains where
they should have broken bones or mortal hurts. A
dreamwalker enters the dream fully, therefore her injuries
are real on waking. For one who is fully in the dream,
dreamwalker or not, death there is death here. To enter
the dream too completely, though, is to lose touch with
the flesh; there is no way back, and the flesh dies. It is
said that once there were those who could enter the dream
in the flesh, and no longer be in this world at all. This
was an evil thing, for they did evil; it must never be
attempted, even if you believe it possible for you, for
each time you will lose some part of what makes you
human. You must learn to enter Tel'aran'rhiod when you
wish, to the degree you wish. You must learn to find what
you need to find and read what you see, to enter the
dreams of another close by in order to aid healing, to
recognize those who are in the dream fully enough to harm
you, to..." (<TSR, Chapter 23, Beyond the Stone, p272>)
i. Egwene's dreams.
4.01 <TGH, Chapter 12, Woven in the Pattern, p180>
"First there had been a man with a mask over his face, and
fire in place of his eyes. Despite the mask, she had
thought he was surprised to see her. His look had
frightened her till she thought her bones would break from
shivering, but suddenly he vanished, and she saw Rand
sleeping on the ground, wrapped in a cloak. A woman had
been standing over him, looking down. Her face was in
shadow, but her eyes seemed to shine like the moon, and
=============== Reply 9 of Note 2 =================
Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB
Topic: ROBERT JORDAN
Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS
To: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Date: 06/17
From: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Time: 12:09 PM
<note 10 of 22>
Egwene had known she was evil. Then there was a flash of
light, and they were gone. Both of them. And behind it
all, almost like another thing altogether, was the feel of
danger, as if a trap was just beginning to snap shut on an
unsuspecting lamb, a trap with many jaws.(fulfilled)"
(Dream of Egwene al'Vere)
4.02 <TDR, Chapter 25, Questions, pp233-234>
Seanchan-"...of Seanchan too, of women in dresses
with lightning bolts woven on their breasts, collaring a
long line of women who wore Great Serpent rings, forcing
them to call lightning against the White
Tower...(unfulfilled)"<pp233-234>
Whitecloaks-"...binding her father's
hands...(fulfilled)"<p234>
Rand-"...reaching for a sword that seemed to be made
of crystal, never seeing the fine net dropping over
him(fulfilled). And one of him kneeling in a chamber where
a parched wind blew dust across the floor, and creatures
like the one on the Dragon banner, but much smaller,
floated on that wind, and settled into his skin(unknown).
There had been a dream of him walking down into a great
hole in a black mountain, a hole filled with a reddish
glare as from vast fires below(unfulfilled), and even a
dream of him confronting Seanchan(fulfilled)."<p234>
Perrin-"...with a falcon on his shoulder, and...with
a hawk. Only the hawk held a leash in her talons-...both
hawk and falcon were female-and the hawk was trying to
fasten it around Perrin's neck(fulfilled)...with a
beard!-leading a huge pack of wolves that stretched as far
as the eye could see...(unfulfilled)"<p234>
Mat-"...placing his own left eye on a balance
scale(fulfilled)...hanging by his neck from a tree
limb(fulfilled). There had been a dream of Mat and
Seanchan, too, but she was willing to dismiss that as a
nightmare(unfulfilled)...the one about Mat speaking the
Old Tongue. (fulfillled).."<p234>(Egwene in thought about
her dreams)
4.03 <TDR, Chapter 37, Fires in Cairhien, pp352-353>
Rand-"...holding a sword that blazed like a sun, till
she could hardly see that it was a sword, could hardly
make out that it was him at all(fulfilled)...[Rand]
threatened in a dozen ways, none of them the least bit
real(fulfilled)...on a huge stone's board, the black and
white stones as big as boulder, and him dodging the
monstrous hands that moved them and seemed to try to crush
him under them. It could have meant something. It very
probably did, but beyond the fact that Rand was in danger
from someone, or two someones-she though that much was
clear-beyond that, she simply did not
know.(fulfilled)"<p352>
Perrin-"...with a wolf, and with a falcon, and a
hawk-the falcon and the hawk
fighting(fulfilled)-...running from someone
deadly(uncertain), and [Perrin] stepping willingly over
the edge of a towering cliff while saying, "It must be
done. I must learn to fly before I reach the bottom
(unfulfilled)." There had been dream of an Aiel, and she
though that had to do with Perrin, too, but she was not
sure.(fulfilled)"<p352>
Min-"...springing a steel trap but somehow walking
=============== Reply 10 of Note 2 =================
Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB
Topic: ROBERT JORDAN
Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS
To: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Date: 06/17
From: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Time: 12:09 PM
<note 11 of 22>
through it without so much as seeing
it.(fulfilled)"<pp352-353>
Mat-"...dice spinning 'round him...being followed by
a man who was not there-she still did not understand that;
there was a man following, or maybe more than one, but in
some way there was no one there-...riding desperately
toward something unseen in the distance that he had to
reach, and Mat with a woman who seemed to be tossing
fireworks about."<p353>
"Men and women breaking out of a cage, then putting
on crowns.(fulfilled) A woman playing with puppets, and
another dream where the strings led to still greater
puppets, on and on until the last strings vanished into
unimaginable heights. Kings dying, queens weeping, battles
raging. Whitecloaks ravaging the Two Rivers.(fulfilled)
She had even dreamed of the Seanchan again. More than
once. Those she shut away in a dark corner; she would not
let herself think of them.(unfulfilled) Her mother and
father, every night."(Egwene thinking on her dreams w/o
the stone ter'angreal)
4.04 <TDR, Chapter 48, Following the Craft, pp468-469>
Seanchan-"The Seanchan, who she refused to think
about.(unfulfilled)"
Master Luhhan-"The Whitecloaks putting Master Luhhan
in the middle of a huge, toothed trap for bait.(fulfilled)"
Perrin-"Why should Perrin have a falcon on his
shoulder(fulfilled), and what was important about him
choosing between that axe he wore now and a blacksmith's
hammer?(unfulfilled)"
Mat-"...dicing with the Dark One, and why did he keep
shouting, "I am coming!" and why did she think in the
dream that he was shouting at her?(fulfilled)"
Rand-"...sneaking through utter darkness toward
Callandor, while all around him six men and five women
walked, some hunting him and some ignoring him, some
trying to guide him toward the shining crystal sword and
some trying to stop him from reaching it, appearing not to
know where he was, or only to see him in flashes. One of
the men had eyes of flame, and he wanted Rand dead with a
desperation she could nearly taste. She thought she knew
him. Ba'alzamon(fulfilled)...Rand in that dry, dusty
chamber again, with those small creatures settling into
his skin(uncertain). Rand confronting a horde of
Seanchan(unfulfilled). Rand confronting her, and the women
with her, and one of them was a Seanchan...(unfulfilled)"
4.05 <TSR, Chapter 11, What Lies Hidden, p145>
Rand-"...as tall as a mountain, walking through
cities, crushing buildings beneath his feet, with
screaming people like ants fleeing from him(unfulfilled).
Rand in chains, and it was he who was
screaming(unfulfilled). Rand building a wall with him on
one side and her on the other, her and Elayne and others
she could not make out. 'It has to be done,' he was saying
as he piled up stones. 'I'll not let you stop me
now.(unfulfilled)'"
Aiel-"...fighting each other, killing each other,
even throwing away their weapons and running as if they
had gone mad.(fulfilled)"
Mat-"...wrestling with a Seanchan woman who tied an
invisible leash to him.(unfulfilled)"
=============== Reply 11 of Note 2 =================
Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB
Topic: ROBERT JORDAN
Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS
To: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Date: 06/17
From: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Time: 12:09 PM
<note 12 of 22>
Perrin-"A wolf-she was sure it was Perrin,
though-fighting a man whose face kept changing.(fulfilled)"
Galad-"...wrapping himself in white as though putting
on his own shroud.(fulfilled)"
Gawyn-"...eyes full of pain and hatred.(fulfilled)"
Marin al'Vere (Egwene's mother)-
"...weeping.(uncertain)"(from Egwene's thoughts)
4.06 <FOH, Chapter 15, What Can Be Learned In Dreams, p214>
Rand-"...sitting down in a chair, and somehow she
knew that the chair's owner would be murderously angry at
having her chair taken; that the owner was a woman was as
much as she could pick out of that, and not a thing
more...(fulfilled)"
Perrin-"...lounging with Faile on his lap, kissing
her while she played with the short-cut beard that he wore
in the dream. Behind them two banners waved, a red wolf's
head and a crimson eagle.(fulfilled) A man in a bright
yellow coat stood near to Perrin's shoulder, a sword
strapped to his back; in some way she knew that he was a
Tinker, though no Tinker would even touch a
sword(fulfilled). And every bit of it except the beard
seemed important. The banners, Faile kissing Perrin, even
the Tinker. Every time he moved closer to Perrin it was
as if a chill of doom shot through
everything.(unfulfilled)"
Mat-"...throwing dice with blood streaming down his
face, the wide brim of his hat pulled low so she could not
see his wound...(unfulfilled)"
Thom-(while mat throws dice) "...put his hand into a
fire to draw out the small blue stone that now dangled on
Moiraine's forehead.(unfulfilled)"
"...storm, great dark clouds rolling without wind or
rain while forked lightning bolts, every one identical,
rent the earth.(uncertain)"(from Egwene's thoughts while
speaking with Moiraine)
ii. Perrin's dreams.
4.07 <TDR, Chapter 43, Shadowbrothers, pp425-426>
Mat-"...rattling a dice cup. His opponent stared at
Mat with eyes of fire. Mat did not seem to see the
man...(uncertain)"<p425>
Egwene and Nynaeve and Elayne-"...stood looking at a
huge metal cage, with a raised door held on a heavy
spring. They stepped in and reach up together to loose the
catch. The barred door snapped down behind
them(fulfilled). A woman with her hair all in braids
laughed at them, and another woman all in white laughed at
her(fulfilled)." (Perrn Aybara's dreams in Illian)<p426>
4.08 <TSR, Chapter 28, To the Tower of Ghenjei, pp320-321>
Rand-"...stood amid swirling stormwinds, laughing
wildly, even madly, arms upraised, and on the winds rode
small shapes, gold-and-scarlet, like the strange figure on
the Dragon banner(unfulfilled); hidden eyes watched Rand,
and there was no way of telling whether he knew
it.(uncertain)" <pp320-321>
Nynaeve and Elayne-"...stalking cautiously through a
demented landscape of twisted, shadowed buildings, hunting
some dangerous beast.(fulfilled)"<p321>
Mat-"...standing where a road forked ahead of him. He
flipped a coin, started down one branch, and suddenly was
=============== Reply 12 of Note 2 =================
Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB
Topic: ROBERT JORDAN
Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS
To: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Date: 06/17
From: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Time: 12:09 PM
<note 13 of 22>
wearing a wide-brimmed hat and walking with a staff
bearing a short sword blade.(fulfilled)"<p321>
Egwene and a woman with long white
hair(Amys)-"...staring at him in surprise while behind
them the White Tower crumbled stone by
stone.(uncertain)"<p321>
4.09 <TSR, Chapter 53, The Price of a Departure, p612>
Egwene-"...stood among a crowd of women, fear in her
eyes; slowly the women knelt around her. Nynaeve was one
of them, and he believed he saw Elayne's red-gold
hair.(unfulfilled)"
Mat-"...stood naked and bound, snarling; an odd spear
with a black shaft had been thrust across his back behind
his elbows, and a silver medallion, a foxhead, hung on his
chest.(uncertain)"
Rand-"Mat vanished, and it was Rand. Perrin thought
it was Rand. He wore rags and a rough cloak, and a bandage
covered his eyes.(unfulfilled)"
iii. Wise One's dreams.
4.10 <TSR, Chapter 12, Tanchico or the Tower, p158>
"'There is among the Maidens of the Spear in the Stone of
Tear a willful girl called Aviendha, of the Nine Valleys
sept of the Taardad Aiel. She must now come to us. There
can be no more waiting or excuses. We will await her on
the slopes of Chaendaer, above Rhuidean.(fulfilled)'"(the
letter from Amys, of the Nine Valleys sept of the Taardad
Aiel; Bair, of the Haido sept of the Shaarad Aiel;
Melaine, of the Jhirad sept of the Goshien Aiel; and
Seana, of the Black Cliff sept of the Nakai Aiel)
4.11 <TSR, Chapter 21, Into the Heart, p237>
"Perhaps the Wise Ones really could teach her something of
Dreaming. That had been the most astounding letter from
them, not that she could afford to heed most of
it."(Moiraine's thoughts in the Heart of the Stone)
4.12 <TSR, Chapter 22, Out of the Stone, p254>
"We may be about to see how useful Dreaming really
is.(fulfilled)" (Moiraine's reference to the letter)
4.13 <TSR, Chapter 23, Beyond the Stone, p259>
"I knew you would be here today, shade of my
heart.(fulfilled)" (Amys, of the Nine Valleys sept of the
Taardad Aiel to Rhuarc on Chaendaer)
4.14 <TSR, Chapter 23, Beyond the Stone, p260>
"'That's what you meant about Dreaming...That's why you
were willing to let Rand try to bring us here by Portal
Stone. They knew about it, and told you in that letter.
No, that doesn't make sense. If they had mentioned a
Portal Stone, you wouldn't have tried talking him out of
it. They knew we'd be here, though.'...'They wrote that
they would meet us here, on Chaendaer,
today...(fulfilled)'" (Egwene's revelation concerning
Moiraine's reference to the letter from the four
dreamwalkers)
4.15 <TSR, Chapter 23, Beyond the Stone, p264>
"I(Amys) knew from the dream that if you(Moiraine) came,
it was almost certain Aan'allein would as well, but I did
not know he obeyed you.(fulfilled)"(dreams of the Wise
Ones related by Amys, of the Nine Valleys sept of the
Taardad Aiel)
4.16 <TSR, Chapter 23, Beyond the Stone, p270>
=============== Reply 13 of Note 2 =================
Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB
Topic: ROBERT JORDAN
Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS
To: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Date: 06/17
From: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Time: 12:09 PM
<note 14 of 22>
"We did not see Egwene or Mat Cauthon at all. It was no
more than an even chance that the young man who calls
himself Rand al'Thor would come. If he did not, it was
certain that he would die, and the Aiel too. Yet he has
come, and if he survives Rhuidean, some of the Aiel at
least will survive. This we know. If you had not come, he
would have died. If Aan'allein had not come, you would
have died. If you did not go through the
rings-(fulfilled)"(Moiraine, Melaine, and Seana in
conversation on Chaendaer)
4.17 <FOH, Chapter 53, Fading Words, p635>
"'You are a fool, Rand al'Thor,...About this and many
other things, you are a fool.'" (Amys speaking to Rand
after the Lanfear attack)
iv.Morin's dreams.
4.18 <TSR, Chapter 25, The Road to the Spear, p290>
"Eyeing him closely, she asked, 'If someone stole your
child, would you talk of the Way of the Leaf and suffering
sent to test us?' He shook his head, and she said, 'I
thought not, You will make a fine father. Teach me to use
this spear.'" (Morin speaking to Jeordam)
"An odd woman, but pretty." (Jeordam's thoughts)
"'I saw your face in a dream,...(fulfilled)'" (Morin
speaking to Jeordam)
v. Sorelle's dreams.
4.19 <TSR, Chapter 26, The Dedicated, p295>
"...Sorelle at twenty of fever her dreams told her was
coming,...(fulfilled)"
vi. Rand's dreams. (the validity of Rand's dreams as
prophecy is questionable-he may have the ability to enter
Tel'aran'rhiod, but so far NONE of his dreams have proven
prophetic.)
4.20 <EOW, Chapter 9, Tellings of the Wheel, pp100-104>
"Rand's heart pounded as he ran,...'We have been waiting
for you,' the Myrddraal hissed."
4.21 <EOW, Chapter 14, The Stag and Lion, pp168-172>
"The stone hallway was dim and shadowy,...'Will you ever
wake again?'"
4.22 <EOW, Chapter 19, Shadow's Waiting, pp245-246 (p291
pb)>
"He [Rand] had no idea what had awakened him from his
unpleasant dream. He had been a little boy again, carrying
Tam's sword and with a cradle strapped to his back,
running through empty streets, pursued by Mordeth, who
shouted that he only wanted his hand. And there had been
an old man who watched them and cackled with mad laughter
the whole time."
4.23 <EOW, Chapter 24, Flight Down the Arinelle, pp293-296>
"Water dripped in the distance,...Ba'alzamon's face. One
face."
4.24 <EOW, Chapter 34, The Last Village, pp442-443>
"He dreamed of Tam. At first they were at the big oak
table in the house, drinking tea while Tam told him about
Prince Consorts, and Daughter-Heirs, and the Dragonwall,
and black-veiled Aielmen. The heron-mark sword lay on the
table between them, but neither of them looked at it.
Suddenly he was in the West wood, pulling the makeshift
litter through the moon-bright night. When he looked over
=============== Reply 14 of Note 2 =================
Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB
Topic: ROBERT JORDAN
Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS
To: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Date: 06/17
From: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Time: 12:09 PM
<note 15 of 22>
his shoulder it was Thom on the litter, not his father,
sitting cross-legged and juggling in the moonlight./'The
Queen is wed to the land,' Thom said as brightly colored
balls danced in a circle, 'but the Dragon...the Dragon is
one with the land, and the land is one with the
Dragon.'/Further back Rand saw a Fade coming,...Two
severed heads hung at its mount's coal-black shoulder. Lan
and Moiraine, faces distorted in grimaces of pain. The
Fade pulled on a fistful of tethers as it rode. Each
tether ran back to the bound wrists of one of those who
ran behind the soundless hooves, their faces blank with
despair. Mat and Perrin. And Egwene<442>...'You are mine,'
the raven said, and the sharp beak stabbed into his eye.
He screamed as it plucked his eyeball out of his
head.<443>"(Rand's dream on Almen Bunt's wagon on the way
to Caemlyn)
4.25 <EOW, Chapter 40, The Web Tightens, p498>
"It seemed to Rand that he was sitting at table with
Logain and Moiraine. The Aes Sedai and the false Dragon
sat watching him silently as if neither knew the other was
there. Abruptly he realized the walls of the room were
becoming indistinct, fading off into gray. A sense of
urgency built in him. Everything was going, blurring away.
When he looked back to the table, Moiraine and Logain had
vanished, and Ba'alzamon sat there instead. Rand's whole
body vibrated with urgency; it hummed inside his head,
louder and louder. The hum became the pounding of blood in
his ears." (when Rand fell off the Caemlyn wall)
4.26 <EOW, Chapter 43, Decisions and Apparitions, pp549-551>
"He stood staring at the wooden door,...down into
blackness and death."
4.27 <TSR, Chapter 2, Whirlpools in the Pattern, pp53-54>
"Through a shadowy forest Moiraine was prodding him with
a sharp...Festering flesh almost obliterated the heron
branded on his palm; white bone showed through red-edged
gaps..." (Rand's dreams in Tear)
4.28 <TSR, Chapter 50, Traps, pp571-572>
"Eyes, closed, Rand stroked through the water. Nicely
cool...The woman looked at him, still neck-deep in the
pond; her mouth tightened with irritation, and she
vanished."
4.29 <FOH, Chapter 4, Twilight, p95>
"Not protection from his own thoughts, though. Three women
invaded them continueally. Not Isendre,...Aside from the
nightmare, they were all pleasant dreams."
4.30 <FOH, Chapter 6, Gateways, p112>
"...he had been teaching Aviendha how to swim, in a pond
in the Waterwood back home in the Two Rivers..."(from
Rand's thoughts in Rhuidean)
4.31 <FOH, Chapter 21, The Gift of a Blade, p278>
"...a confused dream of Min and Elayne helping him throw
Aviendha, wearing nothing but that necklace over his
shoulder, while she beat him over the head with a wreath
of segade blossoms."(after Melaine's weading)
4.32 <FOH, Chapter 22, Birdcalls by Night, p288>
"This time he dreamed of Aviendha hurling fire, only she
was not hurling it at a Draghkar, and Sammael was sitting
by her side, laughing."(after the "Golden Bees" attack)
5. Visions. Visions, both Min's and the Aelfinn's,
=============== Reply 15 of Note 2 =================
Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB
Topic: ROBERT JORDAN
Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS
To: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Date: 06/17
From: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Time: 12:09 PM
<note 16 of 22>
which are described to occur much like the way Min reads
auras, are best for long term prophecy of future events.
No other piece has given us information from the very
beginning that has yet to be fulfilled unless it is as
ambiguous as the Karaethon Cycle.
i. Min's visions.
5.01 <EOW, Chapter 17, Watchers and Hunters, pp181-182
((pb)pp215-216)>
group-"When you're all in a group? Sparks swirling
around you, thousands of them, and a big shadow, darker
than midnight. Its so strong, I almost wonder why
everybody can't see it. The sparks are trying to fill the
shadow, and the shadow is trying to swallow the
sparks...You are all tied together in something
dangerous, but I can't make any more of it."
Egwene-"The girl [Egwene]? She's part of it. And the
gleeman. All of you. You're in love with her...She loves
you too, but she's not for you, or you for her. Not the
way you both want...When I look at her [Egwene] I see the
same as when I look at...Mistress Alys [Moiraine]. Other
things, things I don't understand, too, but I know what
that means. She won't refuse it.(fulfilled)"<p181>
Lan-"...has seven ruined towers around his head, and
a babe in a cradle holding a sword, and...(fulfilled)"<p181>
Thom-"...a man-not him-juggling fire(fulfilled); and
the White Tower, and that doesn't make any sense at all
for a man.(uncertain)"<181>
Perrin-"...a wolf(fulfilled); broken
crown(unfulfilled); and trees flowering around
him(unfulfilled)."<p181>
Mat-"...a red eagle(fulfilled); an eye on a balance
scale(fulfilled); a dagger with a ruby(fulfilled); a
horn(fulfilled); and a laughing face.(unfulfilled)"<p181>
Rand-"A sword that isn't a sword(fulfilled), a golden
crown of laurel leaves(unfulfilled), a beggar's
staff(unfulfilled), you[Rand] pouring water on
sand(fulfilled), a bloody hand and a white-hot
iron(unfulfilled), three women standing over a funeral
bier with him on it(unfulfilled), black rock wet with
blood(unfulfilled)-...Most of all, I see lightning around
you, some striking at you, some coming out of
you(unknown). I don't know what any of it means, except
for one thing. You and I will meet again."(Min in
conversation with Rand in Baerlon)<p181-182>
5.02 <TGH, Chapter 24, New Friends and Old Enemies, p305>
Egwene-"A white flame, and...(unfulfilled)"
Elayne-"[Elayne'd] have to share her husband with two
other women(unfulfilled);...would be a queen...saw a
crown, and it was the Rose Crown of
Andor(unfulfilled)...One of the things she(Min) said she
saw looking at me was a severed hand. Not mine, she
says.(unfulfilled)"
5.03 <TGH, Chapter 38, Practice, p462>
"She [Elayne] is linked to - to those boys as much as you
[Nynaeve], or Egwene, or me. She's part of it, Nynaeve,
whatever it is. Part of the Pattern, I suppose an Aes
Sedai would say." (Min's viewing of Elayne in Tar Valon,
as told to Nynaeve and Egwene)
5.04 <TGH, Chapter 39, Flight From the White Tower, p472>
=============== Reply 16 of Note 2 =================
Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB
Topic: ROBERT JORDAN
Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS
To: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Date: 06/17
From: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Time: 12:14 PM
<note 17 of 22>
"Egwene, what if, after all you are going through for him,
Rand doesn't marry you? What if he marries some woman
you've never seen before, or Elayne, or me? What then?"
(Min's questions to Egwene, in the Ways between Tar Valon
and Toman Head)
5.05 <TGH, Chapter 42, Falme, p506>
"You know I've read you, Egwene. I don't understand most
of it-I almost never do-but I see things I am sure link
you to Rand, and Perrin, and Mat, and-yes, even Galad, the
Light help you for a fool.."
5.06 <TGH, Chapter 43, A Plan, p511>
Nynaeve-"A man's ring of heavy gold floated above
Nynaeve's head...(unfulfilled)"
Elayne-...and above Elayne's, a red-hot iron and an
axe.(unfulfilled)"
Both-"There was danger, but that was to be
expected-and new things, too, among the images she had
seen before...[viewing of Nynaeve and Elayne]...They meant
trouble, she was sure, but it seemed distant, somewhere in
the future.(unfulfilled)"(Min's viewing at Falme)
5.07 <TGH, Chapter 48, First Claiming, p568>
"We're all caught like flies in a spiderweb. What if I
told her [Egwene] that there's another woman yet to come,
one she doesn't even know? For that matter, what would you
think of that, my fine Lord Shepherd? You aren't
bad-looking at all, but ... Light, I don't even know if I
am the one you'll choose. I don't know if I want you to
choose me. Or will you try to dandle all three of us on
your knee? It may not be your fault, Rand al'Thor, but it
isn't fair". (Min's statements to Rand al'Thor at Falme)
5.08 <TDR, Chapter 6, The Hunt Begins, pp62-63>
Perrin-"'An Aielman in a cage(fulfilled);...A
Tuatha'an with a sword(fulfilled). A falcon and a hawk,
perching on his shoulders. Both female, I think.
(fulfilled)And all the rest, of course. What is always
there. Darkness swirling 'round you, and-'..." (Min's
viewing of Perrin Aybara in Dragon Reborn Camp in the
Mountains of Mist)
5.09 <TSR, Chapter 1, Seeds of Shadow, pp16-26>
Ananda-"Yellow Ajah-wore a sickly brown halo,
shriveled and split by rotting fissures that fell in and
widened as they decayed.(fulfilled) <p16>
-Green Ajah-"And on her shoulder, as if nestled
among the grape vines and flowering apple branches worked
on her shawl, sat a human skull. A small woman's skull,
picked clean and sun-bleached.(fulfilled)" <p16>
- -(plump pretty woman w/ blue eyes) "...seemed to
be casting cool blue eyes on the petitioners through
tattered curtain of blood, crimson streamers running down
her face.(fulfilled)" <p16-17>
Three Aes Sedai (Ananda and other two)-"All three of
them! Light! What chance was there that three Aes Sedai
would die on the same day?(fulfilled)"<p17>
-Accepted-"...bars floated in front of her
apple-cheeked face, like a cage.(fulfilled)"<p17>
Sheriam-"...face battered and
bruised.(fulfilled)"<p18>
-Brown Ajah-"...aura faded like a guttered candle
flame.(fulfilled)"<p18>
warders-"...bloody faces, or gaping wounds. Swords
and spears danced about their heads, threatening...auras
=============== Reply 17 of Note 2 =================
Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB
Topic: ROBERT JORDAN
Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS
To: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Date: 06/17
From: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Time: 12:14 PM
<note 18 of 22>
flashed wildly, flickered on the knife edge of
death...dead men walking, knew they would die on the same
day as the Aes Sedai in the entry hall, or at most a day
later.(fulfilled)"<p18>
servants-"...bore signs of violence.(fulfilled)"<p18>
An Aes Sedai-"...appeared to have chains in the air
around her...(fulfilled)" <p18>
another-"...seemed for most of those few strides to
wear a silver collar around her neck."<p18>
Gawyn-"...streaks of dried blood had made his face a
grim mask...wounded on the day the Aes Sedai died...he was
going to be hurt more than the blood told, hurt somehow
deeper than wounds to his flesh(fulfilled)...He scowled,
and for an instant his face was that bloody mask again.
More: a sword floated above his head, and a banner waved
behind it. The long-hilted sword, like those most Warders
used, had a heron engraved on its slightly curved blade,
symbol of a blademaster, and Min could not say whether it
belonged to Gawyn or threatened him.(fulfilled) The banner
bore Gawyn's sigil of the charging White Boar, but on a
field of green rather than the red of Andor. Both sword
and banner faded with the blood.(unfulfilled)"<p19-21>
Leane-"...a transparent mask of her own face, a
screaming mask.(fulfilled)"<p22>
Suian Sanche-"...lying on the floor, naked. Aside
from her being only in her skin, there was something odd
about the image, but it vanished before Min could say
what.(fulfilled)"<p23>(Min's viewings in Tar Valon)
Rand-"The first time I ever saw Rand, I saw three
women's faces, and one of them was mine. I've never seen
anything about myself before or since, but I knew what it
meant. I was going to fall in love with him. All three of
us were...The faces were blurred; I don't know who they
are(unfulfilled)." (Min in conversation with Siuan Sanche,
(then) Amyrlin of the White Tower former Aes Sedai of the
Blue Ajah) <p26>
5.10 <TSR, Chapter 17, Deceptions, p198>
Logain-"...a flaring halo around his head before,
radiant in gold and blue...a halo that shouted of glory
and power to come.(unfulfilled)" (Min's viewings of Logain
in Tar Valon)
5.11 <TSR, Chapter 47, The Truth of a Viewing, p544>
Logain-"Suddenly, for a moment, that flaring halo of
gold and blue shone around his head, speaking of glory to
come as surely as it had the first time she had seen
it...(unfulfilled)"
Gawyn-"...kneeling at Egwene's feet with his head
bowed, and...breaking Egwene's neck, first one then the
other, as if either could be the future....Worse, she had
a feeling near to certainty that it was what she had done
this day that had turned Gawyn toward those two
possibilities.(unfulfilled)" (Min's viewing while leaving
Tar Valon with Siuan Sanche)
5.12 <FOH, Chapter 26, Sallie Daera, pp317-320>
Sheriam (Blue Ajah)-"Rays of silver blue flashed
about her fiery hair, and a soft golden
light...(unfulfilled)"<p317>
Carlinya (White Ajah)-"...an image of a raven
floating beside her dark hair; more a drawing of the bird
than the bird itself. She thought it was a tattoo, but she
=============== Reply 18 of Note 2 =================
Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB
Topic: ROBERT JORDAN
Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS
To: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Date: 06/17
From: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Time: 12:14 PM
<note 19 of 22>
did not know its meaning.(unfulfilled)" <p317>
Edesina (Yellow Ajah) -"To Min's eyes, a silvery
collar suddenly appeared, snug around the woman's neck and
as suddenly seemed to shatter. Min shivered. She did not
like veiwings connected to the Seanchan. At least Edesina
would escape somehow.(unfulfilled)"<p320>(Min's viewings
in Salidar)
5.13 <FOH, Chapter 27, Trapped, p343>
Siuan Sanche and Gareth Bryne-"'I had a viewing. An
aura, and a bull ripping roses from around its
neck(fulfilled), and...If you(Siuan) want to stay alive,
you had better stay close to him(Gareth Bryne).' Despite
the heat, Min shivered. She had only ever had one other
viewing with an "if" in it, and both had been potentially
deadly. It was bad enough sometimes knowing what would
happen; if she started knowing what might...'All I know is
this. If he stays close to you, you live. If he gets too
far away, for too long, you are going to die. Both of you.
I don't know why I should have seen anything about you in
his aura, but you seemed like part of
it.(unfulfilled)'"(Min's viewing in Salidar)
5.14 <FOH, Chapter 50, To Teach and Learn, p592>
Faolain-"'A nasty woman...You'd think, if there was
any justice, she would have an unpleasant future ahead of
her.(unfulfilled)'"(comment on Faolain by Min as the
Accepted led "Areina" and "Nicola" to be tested)
5.15 <FOH, Chapter 50, To Teach and Learn, p598>
Marigan, Nicola, and Areina-"Those three you brought
with you are trouble, and that is a viewing...I only
caught glimpses of aura, and just out of the corner of my
eye. Never when I was looking right at them, where I might
have made something out.(unfulfilled)"(Min in conversation
with Elayne)
5.16 <FOH, Chapter 50, To Teach, and Learn, pp598-599>
"'Min, you had a vision about Rand and me, didn't
you?'(Elayne)...'Yes.' (Min) It was a wary word...'You saw
that we were going to fall in love.' 'Not exactly. I saw
you'd fall in love with him. I don't know what he feels
for you, only that he's tied to you some
way.'.<p598>..'And you saw there would be someone else.
Someone I'd have to...share...him with.' 'Two,' Min said
hoarsely. 'Two others. And...And I'm one.'...'Who is the
third?' she asked quietly. 'I don't know,' Min mumbled.
'Only that she has a temper. Not Nynaeve, thank the
light...<p599>(unfulfilled)'"(Elayne and Min in
conversation in Salidar)
ii. Aelfinn's visions
a. Mat's questions and the Eelfinn's answers
5.17 <TSR, Chapter 15, Into the Doorway, pp176-177>
"Should I go home to help my people?"<p176>
ans: "You must go to Rhuidean.(fulfilled)"<p176>
"Why should I?"<p177>
ans: "If you do not go to Rhuidean...you will
die."<p177>
"Why will I die if I do not go to Rhuidean?"<p177>
ans: "You will have sidestepped the thread of fate, left
your fate to drift on the winds of time, and you will be
killed by those who do not want that fate
fulfilled."<p177>
=============== Reply 19 of Note 2 =================
Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB
Topic: ROBERT JORDAN
Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS
To: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Date: 06/17
From: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Time: 12:14 PM
<note 20 of 22>
"What fate?"<p177>
ans: "To marry the Daughter of the Nine
Moons!(unfulfilled)...To die and live again, and live once
more a part of what was!(uncertain)...To give up half the
light of the world to save the world!(unfulfilled)"<p177>
b. What we know of Rand's answers
5.18 <TSR, Chapter 8, Hard Heads, p117>
"He had spent very nearly his whole life mooning after
Egwene; he was not about to dive into that again until he
was sure. Sure of something. Sure. If Dealings with the
Territory of Mayene was to be believed..."(Rand's thoughts
while dealing with the High Lords of Tear)
5.19 <TSR, Chapter 21, Into the Heart, p241>
"Thom Merrilin had given him good advice; obviously her
spies had missed some of the notes he had slipped into
Rand's pockets. But the rest? It was madness. He could not
have had this for an answer on the other side of that
ter'angreal. It was not possible, surely." (Moiraine's
thoughts in the Heart of the Stone)
5.20 <TSR, Chapter 21, Into the Heart, p241>
"You do not want to extend Tear's sway all the way to
Kinslayer's Dagger, Meilan? That is all right. I know who
I mean to sit on the Sun Throne."(Rand al'Thor speaking in
the Heart of the Stone)
5.21 <TSR, Chapter 21, Into the Heart, p244>
"There is a suprise awaiting anyone who tries to channel
Callandor out of the Stone, Moiraine. Do not think of
taking it to the Tower for safekeeping; I could not make
the trap pick and choose. The Power is all it needs to
spring and reset, ready to trap again. I am not giving
Callandor up forever. Just until I..."(Rand speaking to
Moiraine)
5.22 <TSR, Chapter 21, Into the Heart, p245>
"'Just until' what? He had been intending to say something
other than 'until I come back.' But what?"(Moiraine's
thoughts in the Heart of the Stone)
5.23 <TSR, Chapter 21, Into the Heart, p245>
"'Unless...Does this come from your answers in the
ter'angreal? Cairhien, and Callandor, and Rhuiidean? I
told you those answers can be cryptic. You could be
misunderstanding the, and that could prove fatal. To more
than you.'"(Moiraine in conversation with Rand)
5.24 <TSR, Chapter 24, Rhuidean, p274>
"They never mentioned Rhuidean to me, Mat."(Rand speaking
of his Aelfinn answers to Mat.)
c. What we know of Moiraine's answers
5.25 <TSR, Chapter 6, Doorways, p95>
"No one may step through more than once. Only once. You
may ask three questions, but you must ask all three and
hear the answers before you may leave. Frivolous questions
are punished, it seems, but it also seems what may be
serious for one can be frivolous coming from another. Most
importantly, questions touching the Shadow have dire
consequences...If you asked about the Black Ajah, you
might be returned dead, or come out a gibbering madwoman,
if you came out at all. As for Rand...I am not certain it
is possible to ask a question about the Dragon Reborn that
does not touch the Shadow in some way."(Moiraine in
conversation)
5.26 <TSR, Chapter 17, Deceptions, p195>
=============== Reply 20 of Note 2 =================
Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB
Topic: ROBERT JORDAN
Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS
To: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Date: 06/17
From: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Time: 12:14 PM
<note 21 of 22>
"'A quiet life would kill you[Thom], I think...Tanchico
will not, however. I guarantee that, and by the First
Oath, you know it for truth'...'If you go with Elayne and
Nynaeve, I will tell you the names of those Red sisters
when I see you next, as well as the name of the one who
gave them their orders. They did not act on their own. And
I will see you again. You will survive
Tarabon.(unfulfilled)'"(Moiraine in conversation with
Thom)
5.27 <TSR, Chapter 23, Beyond the Stone, p270>
"'If you do not go through the rings-' She(Melaine) cut
off as if she had bitten her tongue./Egwene leaned forward
intently. Moiriane had to enter Rhuidean? But Aes Sedai
appeared to give no notice, and Seana spoke up quickly to
cover Melaine's slip./'There is no one set path to the
future. The Pattern makes the finest lace look coarse
woven sacking, or tangled string. In Tel'aran'rhiod it is
possible to see some ways the future may be woven. No more
than that.'/Moiraine took a sip of wine. 'The Old Tongue
is often difficult to translate.' Egwene stared at her.
The Old Tongue? What about the rings, the ter'angreal? But
Moiraine went blithely on...(fulfilled)" (Moiraine,
Melaine, and Seana in conversation on Chaendaer)
5.28 <TSR, Chapter 23, Beyond the Stone, p271>
"When we saw you go to the rings, each time it was you who
brought up going, who demanded the right though you have
none of the blood."(Moiraine, Melaine, and Seana in
conversation on Chaendaer)
6. Ter'angreal used by the Wise Ones in Rhuidean.
Unlike the ter'angreal for the accepted in Tar Valon, the
rings in Rhuidean used by the Aiel to be elivated to Wise
Ones is known to prophecize certain inevitable future
events. The reason for including the evidence of what
happened in the rings is best supported by Amys's
description of the ter'angreal, "'In Rhuidean,...you will
find three rings, arranged so...Step through any one. You
will see your future laid before you, again and again, in
variation. They will not guide you wholly, as is best, for
they will fade together as do stories heard long ago, yet
you will remember enough to know some things that must be,
for you, despised as they may be, and some that must not,
cherished hopes that they are..."(<TSR, Chapter 23,
Beyond the Stone, p266>)
i. Aviendha.
6.01 <TSR, Chapter 34, He Who Comes With the Dawn, p395>
"When she [Aviendha] saw him [Rand], she froze, and there
was nothing cool in her blue-green eyes. Her gaze made
the sun seem cold; he should have been burned to ash on
the spot." (Aviendha returns from Rhuidean, having seen a
portion of her future)
6.02 <TSR, Chapter 35, Sharp Lessons, p403>
"I do not like him [Rand]!" Aviendha burst out. "I hate
him! Hate him!" Had Egwene not known better, she would
have thought her close to tears." (Aviendha's conversation
with the Wise Ones, following her return from Rhuidean)
6.03 <TSR, Chapter 48, An Offer Refused, p 547>
"Our ways shock her [Elayne]. She could not accept them.
Why should I care if she can? I want no part of this! It
=============== Reply 21 of Note 2 =================
Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB
Topic: ROBERT JORDAN
Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS
To: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Date: 06/17
From: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Time: 12:14 PM
<note 22 of 22>
cannot be!" (Aviendha to Rand al'Thor)
6.04 <FOH, Chapter 7, A Departure, p132>
"Naked but for that ivory bracelet, and that seeming to
drag at her as if it weighed a hundred pounds, Aviendha
had been running as hard as she could across a cracked
clay flat. And behind her, Rand came, a giant twice the
size of an Ogier on a huge Jeade'en, slowly but inexorably
catching up." (Egwene's recollection of Aviendha's dream)
ii. Moiraine.
6.05 <TSR, Chapter 35, Sharp Lessons, p404>
"The memories fade...Most are already gone. Some, I knew
already. Others...The Wheel weaves as the Wheel wills, and
we are only the thread of the Pattern. I have given my
life to finding the Dragon Reborn, finding Rand, and
seeing him ready to face the Last Battle. I will see that
done, whatever it requires. Nothing and no one can be more
important than that.(uncertain)"
6.06 <FOH, Chapter 7, A Departure, p135>
"'...I will do everything short of sharing his bed to see
that he gets it.' The rings had told her that that would
be disaster. Not that she had ever considered it-the very
idea still shocked her!-but in the rings it was something
she would or could have considered in the future. It was a
measure of her growing desperation, no doubt, and in the
rings she had seen that it would bring ruination on
everything. She wished she could remember how-there were
keys to Rand al'Thor in anything she could learn about
him-but only the simple fact of calamity remained in her
mind."
6.07 <FOH, Chapter 53, Fading Words, pp637-638>
"Since the first day I reached Rhuidean, I have
known(fulfilled)...I hope that Egwene and Aviendha have
survived unharmed. You see, I do not know what happens in
the world after, except perhaps for one small thing which
does not concern you(uncertain)<p637>...You will do
well.<p638>"(Moiraine's letter to Rand)
7. Eelfinn. Though not strictly speaking prophecy,
the Eelfinn wish granting can be assumed to have major
repercussions in future novels.
7.01 <TSR, Chapter 24, Rhuidean, p281-282>
"I walk around with holes in my memory, holes in my life,
and you stare at me like idiots. If I had my way, I would
want those holes filled..." "Well, I want a way to be
free of Aes Sedai and the Power, and I want to be away
from you and back to Rhuidean, if you will not answer me."
(Mat's wishes presumabely granted by the Eelfinn in the
redstone Ter'angreal while at Rhuidean)
7.02 <TSR, Chapter 25, The Dedicated, p307>
"Thus is our treaty written, thus is agreement made.
Thought is the arrow of time; memory never fades. What was
asked is given. The price is paid."
=============== Reply 22 of Note 2 =================
Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB
Topic: ROBERT JORDAN
Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS
To: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Date: 07/02
From: BPHX44A JAY HAFELE Time: 6:12 PM
Carolyn, No offense, but don't you have anything better to
do than type all this out?
Sincerely, Jay
=============== Reply 23 of Note 2 =================
Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB
Topic: ROBERT JORDAN
Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS
To: BPHX44A JAY HAFELE Date: 07/03
From: UVCB78A MARK PRYBYLA Time: 0:59 AM
I admire you for your honesty,Jay,but I appreciate her
efforts for all of us.Some of the things I have downloaded
from her have proved to be very interesting as well as
helpful.She's a true WOT fan.
Lews
=============== Reply 24 of Note 2 =================
Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB
Topic: ROBERT JORDAN
Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS
To: BPHX44A JAY HAFELE Date: 07/06
From: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Time: 0:56 AM
Jay, no offense, but don't you have anything better to do
than ask me? I borrowed most of the stuff from compilations
done by other people. The rest was found when I reread TSR
and while my friend reread the series. It wasn't very hard
and didn't take that long to make. Besides, if I'm here to
discuss wot and I'm semi in charge of Jordan's fan club,
shouldn't I know what I'm talking about? Shouldn't I be >>>
interested in going indepth? And I've been here for three
years. Don't you think that Is Jaim alive? and who is Rand's
brother? get's pretty d*mn boreing the thousandth time I've
seen it? There are some of us who like to go beyond the
first obvious questions and give Jordan's works the credit
they are worth. Someone on Internet has CREATED a Dark One
Dictionary that's 40 something K. Hey, I'm not as bad as it
gets. Moiraine
Besides if you think I do all of these listings and etc,
you're wrong.
=============== Reply 25 of Note 2 =================
Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB
Topic: ROBERT JORDAN
Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS
To: BPHX44A JAY HAFELE Date: 07/07
From: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Time: 11:09 AM
Jay, also, I think I misunderstood you. You think that I
write these all up on-line from a printed copy? No way. I
have everything in a text file and I've figured out that
Prodigy's messages are roughly sixty character's wide and
sixty one-sixty two lines long. I have adapted all of the
files I want to be uploadable into this format heading
each "note" with a <note 1 of x> so that I know how much
to copy to the clip board. I have Prodigy for Windows, so
what I do is cut and paste things onto the bulletin board.
It doesn't take me more than 20-30 minutes of Plus time to
post everything I have in files. Also, I archive all of our
conversations here in WoT. So, what I do is every week or
so, export everything in this subject and then reply to
the notes as I'm reading all in a text editor while I'm
off-line. Then get on Prodigy again and paste my replies
where I want them. For the past two or three months, I
haven't gone over my two hour alotment and ever since I've
started exporting, I've never gone over four hours. I save
money this way! You should think of doing it. Moiraine
Sorry to have jumped on your back before. I was a little
offended.
=============== Reply 26 of Note 2 =================
Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB
Topic: ROBERT JORDAN
Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS
To: UVCB78A MARK PRYBYLA Date: 07/07
From: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Time: 11:09 AM
Lews, thanks for the support. I was beginning to think
that everyone just ignored all of my directional notes.
There's some new stuff in Export this that I typed out
from previous issue of The Chronicles. On the first issue,
I didn't have a laser printer, so I got someone else to
type out and print up the guide to WoT. Thus, I didn't
have the info in a file. So, Egwene's summary of Eye of
the World is available in the Export this subject now.
Moiraine
=============== Reply 27 of Note 2 =================
Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB
Topic: ROBERT JORDAN
Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS
To: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Date: 07/08
From: CPWW74B WILLIAM FARMER Time: 3:04 AM
I'm no dimwit. The reason I've not asked yet is because I'm
not on 5 yet, and hate to know it yet.
Loial
(Deeply offended)
=============== Reply 28 of Note 2 =================
Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB
Topic: ROBERT JORDAN
Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS
To: CPWW74B WILLIAM FARMER Date: 07/08
From: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Time: 9:27 AM
I meant dimwit affectionately. I'm a trifle annoyed that
everyone seems to ignore me. If you took it the wrong way, I
will break our rules for once and say I'm sorry. You must
understand that for everyone's protection we devised a rule
that under no circumstances may anyone in this club write
anything that is meant to be offensive. The reason being
because there was a bunch of misunderstandings about a year
or so ago which lead to the infamous apoligy board. Our
members found the whole thing so rediculous that we promised
eachother never to say the S word again (s o r r y). This
means that if we find something on the board personally
offensive, take a second and try to find another way of
looking at it. I assure that I think that absolutely no one
on the Robert Jordan board is really a dimwit. I hang out
here for the intelligent conversations that do occur much
more often then anywhere else I've been. Again, if I
offended you, I assure that it was not intended to offend.
Please remember that always...Moiraine
=============== Reply 29 of Note 2 =================
Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB
Topic: ROBERT JORDAN
Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS
To: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Date: 07/10
From: GSFN34A GERARD FILICKO Time: 1:27 AM
Aaaaaeeeeiiiiiiii!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Not the S* word!!!!
Oh wait....you said "Sorry". I thought you said "socialism".
--Machin Shin--
=============== Reply 30 of Note 2 =================
Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB
Topic: ROBERT JORDAN
Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS
To: GSFN34A GERARD FILICKO Date: 07/10
From: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Time: 9:11 AM
Aaaaaieeeeeeee! The "s" word!!!!
Machin, you really know better than that! Moiraine
=============== Note 3 =================
Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB
Topic: ROBERT JORDAN
Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS
To: ALL Date: 06/21
From: FHSV34C STEPHANIE CAIN Time: 2:57 PM
What if we look at the motives for killing Asmodean?
Someone didn't want Rand learning about his powers, but
Lanfear always said she wanted him to learn so they could
rule together. After falling into the Ter'angreal, even if
she got back, would she really want Asmodean dead?
(Regrettable - I liked him.)
And what about Lan and Nynaeve? Moiraine's an interesting >
lady, but would she really be kind enough to give Lan to
Nynaeve after she died? Especially since Nynaeve seems only
to want to destroy Moiraine...
I'm lost on the Tigraine/Shaiel thing, though. I guess I'm
really behind on some things...Anyone care to explain?
Has anyone noticed how close the names Ilyena and Elayne
sound? Is this foreshadowing? Lews married Ilyena - will
Rand marry Elayne???
Just some thoughts, but let me know what you think.
Birgitte
=============== Reply 1 of Note 3 =================
Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB
Topic: ROBERT JORDAN
Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS
To: FHSV34C STEPHANIE CAIN Date: 06/21
From: HVSH31C KEITH HOLVEN Time: 5:59 PM
I'm not sure about motives for killing Asmodean. As for
Moiraine, she's not as severe as she seems. She WANTS
Nynaeve and Lan to be together, though she knows Nynaeve is
set against her. Remember, Nynaeve hates her for doing
something she had to do to save the world, bring the Two
Rivers people into the fight, so it's really an unfounded
hatred. I wouldn't be surprised if Nynaeve becomes a Blue,>
and becomes very much like Moiraine.
Ok, Tigraine/Shaiel: in the first few books, Tigraine was
listed in the glossary. She was the Daughter-heir of Andor,
and married Taringail Damodred, bearing a son, Galad. Then
her brother Luc disappeared, and so did she, into the Waste
a few years before the Aiel War. Shaiel appeared in the
Waste a few years before the war, too, and asked to become a
Far Dareis Mai. She said she regretted leaving her husband
and baby son on the other side of the Spine. Near the start
of the Aiel War, she and a clan chief fell in love, and
during the war she got pregnant and kept fighting, all the>
way to Dragonmount, where she gave birth to Rand and died.
Her Aiel husband (if they actually married, I forgot) led a
squad into the Blight, and in one battle he was given a
fatal wound. He returned to his squad and said the man who
killed him looked like Shaiel. If Shaiel IS Tigraine, then
the man who killed Rand's father was Luc, since, being
brother and sister, they should have a family resemblance.
And Luc has turned evil through merging with Isem, if that's
what he did. So it all makes sense.
As for Elayne/Ilyana, yeah I too noticed. The Wheel weaves->
in mysterious ways <G>. Rand will probably marry Elayne.
And Aviendha. And Min. Min knows she has to share Rand, as
does Elayne, and among Aviendha's people, it's acceptable
for a man to have more than one wife, and since they're all
friends, they'll probably live with it. Rand will be a very
tired husband, though <VBG>
Juilin Sandar
=============== Reply 2 of Note 3 =================
Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB
Topic: ROBERT JORDAN
Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS
To: HVSH31C KEITH HOLVEN Date: 06/21
From: XBFD75C TOBIAS BURMEISTER Time: 10:30 PM
Nynaeve's dislike for Moi probably has more to do with Lan
than the Two Rivers folk.
I think the Battle Ajah is the only one suitible for a woman
comitted to marrying the king of Malkier.
Gawyn
=============== Reply 3 of Note 3 =================
Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB
Topic: ROBERT JORDAN
Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS
To: FHSV34C STEPHANIE CAIN Date: 06/22
From: ECPN23A TIMOTHY MARTIN Time: 9:21 PM
For some reason, I have always hoped that Rand would
marry (or choose, if he is never able to marry) Min. Out of
the three, I like her the best. I don't suppose anyone out
there has discovered some hint as to which of the three will
get him (if any of them do)?
- Galad
=============== Reply 4 of Note 3 =================
Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB
Topic: ROBERT JORDAN
Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS
To: ECPN23A TIMOTHY MARTIN Date: 06/23
From: XFTC37B OREN LASKIN Time: 6:08 PM
If I had to take a geuss it would be Elayne. Elayne looks
like Ilyena, will make Rand her warder, and Min siad she
will share her husband with two others. An affair could
kind of hurt the prestige of a royal family.<G>
=============== Reply 5 of Note 3 =================
Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB
Topic: ROBERT JORDAN
Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS
To: ECPN23A TIMOTHY MARTIN Date: 06/24
From: CPAP18B JAMES MOCK JR Time: 4:34 PM
As for who Rand marries, I don't know. But if you noticed
all three SHARE him.
=============== Reply 6 of Note 3 =================
Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB
Topic: ROBERT JORDAN
Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS
To: CPAP18B JAMES MOCK JR Date: 06/24
From: ECPN23A TIMOTHY MARTIN Time: 9:51 PM
I had hoped that the "sharing" would end after Tarmon
Gaidon (if he survives). Oh well-- just my romantic side
getting the better of me <g>. Nothing indicates this would
happen except the wishful thinking of Elayne and Min (Av
seems determined to deliver Rand safely to Elayne).
- Galad
=============== Reply 7 of Note 3 =================
Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB
Topic: ROBERT JORDAN
Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS
To: CPAP18B JAMES MOCK JR Date: 06/25
From: UGMK15A J MICHAEL WEST Time: 10:28 AM
How can all three share him? Lets say Rand is to prudish
to have three wives. (Or maybe to smart? Ha Ha). Scenario:
3 to share Rand: 1. Elayne Bonds him as warder.
2. Min marries Rand.
3. Aviendha and Rand have child. There
was some indication this might already be started. >>>
When Wise Women & Avi were talking in Cairhein about Avi's
success with Rand might be better than thought, they quickly
stopped talking when Rand was around - flimsy, but possible
support.
MIKE
=============== Reply 8 of Note 3 =================
Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB
Topic: ROBERT JORDAN
Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS
To: FHSV34C STEPHANIE CAIN Date: 06/25
From: UHMH64A TROY RACKHAM Time: 7:27 PM
Birgitte,
If you are confused, than I am utterly lost! What I would
like someone to explain is the whole thing that happened in
the ter'angreal in Rhuidean? I got the basics, but it still
really confused me.
=============== Reply 9 of Note 3 =================
Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB
Topic: ROBERT JORDAN
Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS
To: HVSH31C KEITH HOLVEN Date: 06/25
From: UHMH64A TROY RACKHAM Time: 7:32 PM
Wait a minute, how can you make the assumption that Shaiel
and Tigraine are the same person? I'm confused. Would that
make Rand and Elayne related somehow? Is this going to turn
out to be another dissapointing situation like in Return of
the Jedi?
Ben
=============== Reply 10 of Note 3 =================
Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB
Topic: ROBERT JORDAN
Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS
To: UHMH64A TROY RACKHAM Date: 06/25
From: HVSH31C KEITH HOLVEN Time: 10:53 PM
Easy to make the assumption: all the facts fit together.
Tigraine disappeared into the Waste shortly before the Aiel
War. Shaiel was found in the Waste shortly before the Aiel
War. Tigraine was married to Taringail and had baby son
Galad. Shaiel regretted leaving her husband and baby behind.
Tigraine's brother, Luc, disappeared into the Blight, and we
have seen his return, evil. Rand's dad said he was killed->
by a man in the Blight that looked like Shaiel. Family
resemblance. But don't worry! Elayne and Rand aren't
related. Rand and Galad are. They shared the same mother.
Elayne's dad is Galad's dad, so they're related as well.
Elayne and Rand have no parent in common, but technically
Rand should have some sort of Andoran title of nobility in
addition to all his other titles he's accumulated, because
his mom was once the Daughter-Heir of Andor. Everything fits
together, if you just look. It's the Wheel's way of weaving
the Patterns of all these people together <G>
-Juilin-
=============== Reply 11 of Note 3 =================
Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB
Topic: ROBERT JORDAN
Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS
To: HVSH31C KEITH HOLVEN Date: 06/25
From: CSXW80A RONALD ROOF JR Time: 11:34 PM
Nicely said Juilin.
Rogosh
=============== Reply 12 of Note 3 =================
Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB
Topic: ROBERT JORDAN
Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS
To: UHMH64A TROY RACKHAM Date: 06/27
From: HVSH31C KEITH HOLVEN Time: 1:12 AM
However, I could be completely wrong, and in the next
couple books Jordan could throw in some twists, so we'll see
that Rand and Elayne ARE siblings, ala Return of the Jedi.
And we'll also see that Ishamael is really Rand's father
<VBG>
-Juilin-
=============== Reply 13 of Note 3 =================
Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB
Topic: ROBERT JORDAN
Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS
To: HVSH31C KEITH HOLVEN Date: 06/28
From: ECPN23A TIMOTHY MARTIN Time: 2:22 PM
<VBG>
- Galad
=============== Note 4 =================
Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB
Topic: ROBERT JORDAN
Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS
To: ALL Date: 06/23
From: XFTC37B OREN LASKIN Time: 6:08 PM
If Rand hit Lanfear or Ishmael with the strongest balefire
by combining with women with the the great sa'angreal could
he change the pattern so that the DO was never freed in the
Age of Legends?
=============== Reply 1 of Note 4 =================
Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB
Topic: ROBERT JORDAN
Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS
To: XFTC37B OREN LASKIN Date: 07/08
From: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Time: 9:05 PM
More than likely they'd just destroy the Pattern and that
would be the end. THE end. Not just an ending. When
Moiraine warns Rand not to use Balefire, she says
something to this effect. I think she mentions it when
Rand kills the Dark Hounds that try to kill mat at the
beginning of FOH. I don't have FOH right now so I cannot
be more specific. Moiraine
=============== Reply 2 of Note 4 =================
Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB
Topic: ROBERT JORDAN
Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS
To: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Date: 07/09
From: GSFN34D ANDREA LEISTRA Time: 1:02 AM
That would create such huge paradoxes...I don't like it,
largely because it would mean nothing in any of the books
ever happened. Rand & co. would cease to exist if he did
that (if such an huge channeling is even POSSIBLE) because
of the immense change. I doubt the Pattern could handle
such a strain, such a key thread being ripped out so far
back. It would fall apart like a tapestry that had threads>
torn out from the middle, threads that connected to
countless others and were involved in key connections. That
is the analogy that is used for the Pattern throughout the
series; applying it here makes it seem unlikely that such a
massive use of balefire would be the ending. In addition,
from a purely aesthetic viewpoint, it seems like a collasal
copout; that nothing ever really happened because it was all
undone. No Last Battle or anything.
aviendha
=============== Reply 3 of Note 4 =================
Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB
Topic: ROBERT JORDAN
Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS
To: GSFN34D ANDREA LEISTRA Date: 07/09
From: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Time: 7:45 AM
I really do begin to appreciate your Rand's prison idea. Did
you read my analysis? I included it and gave a decently
detailed report for it, considering I had been working on
the bloody thing all day and was extremely tired when I
finally finished it...Moiraine
=============== Reply 4 of Note 4 =================
Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB
Topic: ROBERT JORDAN
Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS
To: GSFN34D ANDREA LEISTRA Date: 07/10
From: GSFN34A GERARD FILICKO Time: 1:27 AM
Add to that paradox our understanding of the Dark One's
prison (i.e., he's imprisoned by the Wheel of Time which
weaves the Pattern but is also somehow woven back *into* the
Pattern). Therefore, destroying the Pattern would destroy
the Wheel which would free the DO.
--Machin Shin--
=============== Reply 5 of Note 4 =================
Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB
Topic: ROBERT JORDAN
Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS
To: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Date: 07/10
From: GSFN34D ANDREA LEISTRA Time: 2:43 AM
Yep, I read it. I did download both files, too...didn't
download the prophecies, though, since I do get the Chrons.
Thanks...oh, btw, do we need to send you more $ for the
Chrons?
avi
=============== Reply 6 of Note 4 =================
Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB
Topic: ROBERT JORDAN
Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS
To: GSFN34D ANDREA LEISTRA Date: 07/10
From: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Time: 9:18 AM
I just updated my books and I've decided that your
subscription is up as of the August issue. I'll send you a
little note saying that, don't worry. (really, you've been
riding on my generosity for a couple of newsletter, but I
figured that all of those who were the originals to
subscribe deserved many freebies and my thanks!) But, the
file in Pred&Thts is an updated version of TC. I've even >>
updated it since I've uploaded it since I have found some
more dreams of Rands! Stupid man, he's had more dreams than
anyone else combined. To bad their all non prophetic!
Moiraine
=============== Reply 7 of Note 4 =================
Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB
Topic: ROBERT JORDAN
Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS
To: GSFN34A GERARD FILICKO Date: 07/10
From: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Time: 9:18 AM
But what good would his freedom be if the universe were
destroyed? REALLY. Moiraine
=============== Reply 8 of Note 4 =================
Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB
Topic: ROBERT JORDAN
Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS
To: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Date: 07/10
From: GSFN34A GERARD FILICKO Time: 11:23 PM
There are all sorts of avenues left open to "evil deities"
in fantasy once their universe is destroyed. Most notably,
I'll refer you to Michael Moorcock's Elric of Melnibone
series. The primary goal of the Lords of Chaos (the
controlling evil entities) was to destroy the universe (at
the end of a millenium) in order to recreate it under their
own fashion. They succeeded quite well. --Machin
=============== Note 5 =================
Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB
Topic: ROBERT JORDAN
Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS
To: ALL Date: 07/02
From: BPHX44A JAY HAFELE Time: 6:19 PM
In the next book, Lord of Chaos, does anyone think Rand
will start kick some Red Ajah butt? They no longer have a
reason for existing now that Rand has claimed all men who
can channel.
Another thought, how will Rand keep from going crazy? I
think he will get the two great sa'angreal, get Nynaeve (the
strongest woman) and together they will somehow cleanse
Saidin. Rand made a comment about this somewhere in Fires of
Heaven. He was wondering if there was some possibility of
shielding or cleansing Saidin.
Any comments????
Jay
=============== Reply 1 of Note 5 =================
Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB
Topic: ROBERT JORDAN
Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS
To: BPHX44A JAY HAFELE Date: 07/03
From: UVCB78A MARK PRYBYLA Time: 0:59 AM
It seems to be a good possibility that the taint will be
healed.If the Eye of the World was created by tapping
through the taint and the Aes Sedai back then were able to
get some of the pure saidin,then that shows that it must be
possible still.There must be some flaws to the DO's taint,in
order for that to happen.Also,if the DO has the ability to
taint saidin,then most likely there is a way to cleanse it.
The only thing is,though,I have thought all along (and also
because of some of RJ's comments) that there is going to be
some twist to all of this.I think he has some ultimate
scheme worked out that will be much different at the end of
the series than the "happily ever after" endings we see in
most series' endings.Everything right now seems to fall
right into Rands hands,not easily,but still a little too
easy.Somehow I think that RJ is "lulling" us into a false
sense of security and that he is going to "drop the hammer"
sometime soon and that Rand is going to find things much
tougher than we realize (or Rand realizes).I think that
the ending is going to be something that none of us expect.
And I kind of hope that is how it will be because the series
is already different from any I personally have read and to
have a different ending than most would surely make this
series stick out in my mind even more than it already does.
I think we are going to have a bittersweet ending.But,I
certainly am not RJ,and I certainly don't know.(But I'd like
to.....)
Lews Therin
=============== Reply 2 of Note 5 =================
Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB
Topic: ROBERT JORDAN
Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS
To: UVCB78A MARK PRYBYLA Date: 07/03
From: CSXW80A RONALD ROOF JR Time: 1:38 AM
Interesting note, the eye of the world was made with
thirteen of the weakest male channelers. I think the words
were "just barely trained" or something like that.
Anyways on to the Red Ajah. There has been questions
about what the different ajahs did before the breaking. I
believe that with a lost of power athey had to divide their
responsiblities. The red on the other hand started
something entirly new. Why?
Well, We know there were Aei Sedai that went to the dark
side during the war of the Shadow. Therefore the begining
of the Black Ajah. Now, the Dark one also knows that as the
first Dragon dies, it will be the second dragon that defeats
him again. So, who better to look for that next Dragon than
Aei Sedai, and who better to deal with him than an Ajah
who's purpose is to hunt down men that can channel.
Therefore I believe the Red Ajah was started and is still
almost entirely Black Ajah. I'm sure there are member of
the Red Ajah that are not Black Ajah, such as Elaida whom
I believe is truely afraid of men that can channel.
Well, can't think of anything else to say <G>.
Rogosh Eagle-eye
=============== Reply 3 of Note 5 =================
Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB
Topic: ROBERT JORDAN
Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS
To: CSXW80A RONALD ROOF JR Date: 07/03
From: BPHX44A JAY HAFELE Time: 2:51 PM
Ronald, I also doubt that Elaida is black ajah. Her Keeper
of the Chronicles is black ajah and is trying to undermine
Elaida.
I personally think that Rand should gather all red ajah
together, give them the opportunity to pick another color or
be permanently stilled. He must learn to be hard and deal
with his enemies harshly. (Aiel philosophy) ---->>>
If Rand had the Great sa'angreal, the statuette, could a
circle of thirteen manage to shield him. They refer to the
process as being ALMOST impossible to overcome by a male
channeler. The word 'almost' would indicate that a very
strong individual with the ultimate sa'angreal could
overcome the circle. Any comments?????
Sincerely, Jay
=============== Reply 4 of Note 5 =================
Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB
Topic: ROBERT JORDAN
Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS
To: CSXW80A RONALD ROOF JR Date: 07/08
From: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Time: 8:57 PM
>Interesting note, the eye of the world was made with
>thirteen of the weakest male channelers. I think the words
>were "just barely trained" or something like that.
Oh, contraro, Rogosh. The Eye of the World was made with a
hundred women and men working in unison and all gave their
lives in the effort.
<EOW, Chapter , Meetings at the Eye, (p744)>
"It was the first days of the Breaking of the World, when
the joy of victory over the Dark One turned bitter with
the knowledge that all might yet be shattered by the
weight of the Shadow. A hundred of them made it, men and
women together. The greatest Aes Sedai works were always
done so, joining _saidin_ and _saidar,_ as the True Source
is joined. They died, all, to make it pure, while the
world was torn around them. Knowing they would die, they
charged me to guard it against the need to come. It was
not what I was made for, but all was breaking apart, and
they were alone, and I was all they had. It was not what I
was made for, but I have kept the faith."
Of course, now we know that it was NOT in the first days
after the defeat of the Dark One, though perhaps it WAS in
the first days of the Breaking. Coulin was sixteen when
the Dark One was resealed into Shayol Ghul and it must
have been over sixty three years after that that the Eye
of the World was made and when the Stone was created and
Callandor put in place. Because Jonai was sixty three when
he left the Hall of Servants and Paaren Disen (Paradise).
It's my theory that where Shayol Ghul and the Blight now
lies is where Collam Daan once lay beneath the Sharom, but
that's only a guess. Moiraine
=============== Reply 5 of Note 5 =================
Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB
Topic: ROBERT JORDAN
Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS
To: BPHX44A JAY HAFELE Date: 07/09
From: CPWW74B WILLIAM FARMER Time: 1:51 AM
Maybe some ancient Aes Sedai (Male) hid off in Shara during
the aftermath of the breaking. Finds Rand. Teaches Him.
William
=============== Note 6 =================
Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB
Topic: ROBERT JORDAN
Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS
To: ALL Date: 07/08
From: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Time: 8:57 PM
Kieth Holven wrote the following on 6/21 5:59 PM ET
>I'm not sure about motives for killing Asmodean. As for
>Moiraine, she's not as severe as she seems. She WANTS
>Nynaeve and Lan to be together, though she knows Nynaeve
>is set against her. Remember, Nynaeve hates her for doing
>something she had to do to save the world, bring the Two
>Rivers people into the fight, so it's really an unfounded
>hatred. I wouldn't be surprised if Nynaeve becomes a Blue,
>and becomes very much like Moiraine.
I love you! Do you know that? I mean, that's exactly what
I think about Moiraine's character and suprisingly that's
exactly what I think about Nynaeve. I think that they are
much more alike than Nynaeve is willing to admit to and
I've often thought that it would be extremely ironic if
she chose Blue Ajah and continue Moiraine's fight against
the Dark One w/ Lan at her side (when Myrelle passes him
on to her). I thought it would be ironic, that doesn't
mean that it will necessarily happen, or even that I put
too much stock in it happening. I just believe that
Nynaeve and Moiraine are much more similar then Egwene and
Moiraine. To add to that list, I think Moghedian's right in
there w/ them which explains why Nynaeve took such a
liking to her specifically. I think Moghedian is A-(loaned
out my FOH book)(she's the one who dresses like
Birgitte-also ironic).
As for Elayne possibly being Ilyena reborn. I'm not sure
that Ilyena could channel. I've raised this point when
someone tried to place a timeperiod on when Lews must have
broken up w/ Lanfear by and have married Ilyena. The War
of the Shadow lasted for three generations. From when
Charn was probably in his twenties to when his grandson,
Coumin was sixteen and it was announced that the Forsaken
had been bound w/ the Dark One in Shayol Ghul. At the
least, the War of the Shadow must have lasted sixty years
(nothing near the ten years that Lews cited in EOW)
Therefore, it is altogether possible that Ilyena was born
at the beginning of the War of the Shadow had Lews's
children mid war and had grown to mid age by the end of
the War, if she was unable to channel. Consider this also.
For Lews to have died when he did, that meant that the War
was over and the Forsaken already bound. As a matter of
fact, it could have been any number of years AFTER the War
that Lews actually went mad and killed everyone who was
close to him. Also, Lews was middle aged looking when he
died, and Moghedien was two hundred years old when she is
imprissoned and considered still young for an Aes Sedai.
Thus, Lews could have been over four hundred centuries
years old when he died. Consider the number of relatives
he could have had by then if Ilyena was able to channel
and had been a part of his life for a couple of centuries.
I imagine that they only spent a small portion of Lews's
life together and that he only had a handful of kids when
he went mad and did the act that named him Kinslayer.
Thus, I don't think that Ilyena could channel.
Additionally, she didn't save her children or anything
which she might have been able to do should she have been
able to channel. I imagine that she would have protected
her children, at least, if she had the opportunity to do
so. Clearly she didn't.
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