628 lines
38 KiB
Plaintext
628 lines
38 KiB
Plaintext
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1 If you are in need of help, you need but ask....
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2 ************************* INSTALLED: 19 DEC 86 ************************
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3 Welcome to BWMS (BackWater Message System) Mike Day System operator
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4 ************************************************************
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5 GENERAL DISCLAIMER: BWMS IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY INFORMATION
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6 PLACED ON THIS SYSTEM.
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7 BWMS was created as an electronic bill board. BWMS is a privately owned
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8 and operated system which is currently open for use by the general public.
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9 no restrictions are placed on the use of the system. As the system is
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10 privately owned, I retain the right to remove any and all messages which
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11 I may find offensive. Because of the limited size of the system, it will be
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12 periodically purged of messages. (only 629 lines of data can be saved)
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13 to leave a message, type 'ENTER' and use ctrl/C or break to get out of the
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14 ENTER mode. The message is automatically stored. If after entering the
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15 message you find you made a mistake, use the replace command to replace
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16 the line. To exit from the system, type 'OFF' then hang up.
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17 type 'HELP' to see other commands that are available on the system.
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18 ***********************************************************
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19
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20 Let's see, in regard to right/wrong not being socially derived, or at least
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21 that there are some absolutes to right an wrong.
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22 Well, I would like to believe that myself, but it is hard to do so the more
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23 I study the matter. Oh I have firmly held believes, and I feel strongly
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24 that they are correct, that (at least most) of what I consider right and
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25 wrong is best for both my own well being and the well being of the society
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26 I live in. But I also recognize that there are other view points and what
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27 I consider right or wrong may not be considered such in a different society.
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28 The slavery issue as you pointed out is a case in point. For a particular
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29 group it was not wrong. and in fact it was considered good, after all the
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30 life they were leading was much better than the one they had in africa
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31 (or china or whereever the particular group of slaves come from when
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32 being enslaved by another group) for them they thought they were doing
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33 the right thing. Even in that group treating a slave badly was considered
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34 wrong. But let's turn to an even more revolting idea that our society
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35 has inbeded in our minds, caniblism. It has been quite throughly ingrained
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36 into the social consiousness that canibalism is bad. So much so that the
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37 very thought of it is horrifying and repulsive to most people (even me).
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38 And social concept is that if you even think that it might be acceptable
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39 you're labeled as being mentally unstable. But if you think about it
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40 logocally there is no basis in that sort of concept. At least as long
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41 as you don't take another's life to perform the act, it even fits within
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42 the strict moores of our society. Think of all the edible meat that
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43 goes to waste everyday as people are pickled and barried or burned.
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44 (I know it is hard to not be revulsed at the concept, but it is a totally
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45 emotional feeling and is not based on logic.) In some countries up until
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46 recent times (and I'm not too sure that it still isn't practiced)
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47 caniblism was being practiced. It was a very ritualistic form, and
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48 if you didn't take part you were considered to be strange or to have
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49 something wrong with you. It was considered an insult to the individual
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50 being eaten if you didn't partake. By eating him he became a part of
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51 the tribe and thus lived forever in the life of the tribe itself. And
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52 the tribe gained because it was belived that the knowledge, strength
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53 and skills of who they eat was absobedinto the tribe making it stronger.
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54 So was this right or wrong? By our standards it is a horible crime,
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55 so revulsive as to hardly be thought of. And yet for them it was just
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56 the opposite. It was considered wrong and revulsive to NOT do so.
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57 And what about death? Is is right or wrong to try to keep someone
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58 alive as long as possible when they are dying of a terminal disease,
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59 in great pain. It is impossible no matter what for them to even recover.
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60 Is it wrong to continue to force them to live this way, draining the
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61 resources of their loved ones, forcing those very loved ones to go
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62 through the pain and agony with this person? (it is almost always
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63 impossible to understand the true impact of this sort of situation
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64 unless you have gone through it yourself, watching a loved one
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65 slipping away day by day as the agony of every breath becomes almost
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66 unbearable despite the massive drugs being administered.) Is it right
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67 to force this person to die this way. To hang on to every second.
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68 To live the last hours, days, weeks or months in a coma because the
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69 body deteriorated to the point that it could only be kept alive with
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70 machines? Does this person not have the right to choose their own
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71 life and death? Do they not have the right to decide how death comes
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72 to them? Is it right to take that decision away from them and force
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73 their last few moments of life to be filled with such agony that they
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74 can no longer think or even live, that their world becomes nothing
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75 but pain? My grandmother died of lung cancer, a painful death. Her
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76 desire was to live in her own home as long as it was possible. The
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77 family granted her that request, doing everything it could to support
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78 her desire. The three years ago in November the condition worsened
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79 to the point that she ended up in the hosptal. A few weeks later she was
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80 moved to a rest home. Again she asked to be allowed to die with dignity,
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81 and to not be attached to machines beyond what her own body could
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82 support herself, again this was granted. Direct oxygen feed and morphine
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83 were the only thing provided to ease her passage. That and the love
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84 of the family. Was it wrong to not try to force an extra few days
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85 out of her body by attaching advanced machines to her? I personally
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86 feel it would have been wrong, yet there are those who consider it
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87 wrong, that a person must be forced to live out every second of existance
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88 on this earth no matter what. I fail to see how this is good, all it
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89 acomplishes is to impoverish the family, and make everyone misserable.
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90 My grandmother died at 3:00am 18 January 1984 with her family around
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91 her. She died happy, I only hope that I can be so lucky as to be allowed
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92 to die in peace with those I love around me when my time comes.
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93 And yet in the back of my mind there is that nagging thought that
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94 society has put there; was there something that could have be done to
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95 extend her life? Is it right or wrong? who is to say. I can only go
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96 my my own feelings as to what is right and wrong for me. Maybe they
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97 don't fit what another person feels is right or wrong, but for my
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98 universe and reality they fit, for it is my perception. but that
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99 reality is based around and built from the society I live in, and to
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100 live there comfortably I live with the values of that system. If I
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101 don't I will be misserable, and that's a stupid way to live.
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102
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103 I'll leave with a couple of thoughts passed on to me in class the
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104 other night (hey, two thoughts for the price of one!)
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105 First, as long as we hate war there will be war.
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106 Second, the single most self destructive word in the english language
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107 is "(I'm) sorry".
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108 ########################### The Innkeeper #############################
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109 Milord Innkeeper: some of thy friends do not find cannabilism repulsive. We
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110 would object strongly to killing someone for food, but not to using their
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111 body in this manner once they have no further use for it.
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112 My studies reveal, however, that there is a valid reason for the 'tabu'
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113 against cannabilism. Unless the meat is cooked very thoroughly it is certain
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114 to pass on any diseases or parasite that may have afflicted the source.
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115 There is at least on disease that is _only_ transmitted by cannabilism!
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116 Kuru, the 'laughing sickness' of New Guinea is transmitted by eating the brain
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117 of someone who is harboring the disease.
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118 Your other point are well made though.
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119 ..............................the apprentice..................................
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120 ````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
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121 Right and Wrong? These are only semantic terms. I have another observation.
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122 If you consider the definition of right or wrong, you will find that they don't
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123 exist, except in the consideration of a fixed enviornmment, such as a machine.
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124 It can be said that there is a right way to use a screwdriver, and a wrong
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125 way, inasmuch as using a screwdriver the wrong way involves forcing it to do
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126 something it was not designed for. Or, better yet, there is a wrong way to
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127 tighten a standard thread machine screw. anyway, applying the terms Right and
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128 Wrong to the actions of people is nothing more than sloppy english. The same
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129 goes for the terms Good and Bad. When a person says that a particular action
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130 is 'Good', then that person is merly being too lazy to properly phrase a
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131 sentence, to reflect what they really mean.
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132 It is a shame that our eduational system does not require people to take a
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133 course in clear thinking. Only people who have a hazy idea of what they
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134 believe and an unorganized approach to presenting it can argue the merits
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135 of 'Good' and 'Bad'.
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136 ```````````````````````````````Mr. Interceptor``````````````````````````````
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137 I CARE
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138 .-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.
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139 At this point in the 'Right' and 'Wrong' discussion, I must interject a quuck
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140 (quick) caution: Right, wrong, good, bad, rich, poor, better, worse, etc, are
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141 all words, subject to personal definitions. Our society tries to tie specific
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142 meanings and stigmas to those particular noises with dictionaries and morals,
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143 but they are still defined by the individual. To quote Humpty Dumpty when
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144 talking to Alice, "When *I* use a word, it means just what I choose it to mean,
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145 nneither more nor less." Don't let words confuse you, and be very careful how
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146 those words are chosen. Also, be very mindful of how and why the other person
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147 chooses their words. Don't try to define the word 'Right', because the words
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148 you use might mean something completely different to the listener. Instead,
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149 be our example with your deeds.
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150 .-.-.-.
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151 A society defines itself as a group of people with something in common. That
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152 commonality will define the 'good' and 'bad' of the society. This is in
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153 keeping with what our host the Innkeeper has said of cannibalism. We, who
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154 hold the body sacred in one manner call cannibalism 'bad', yet cannibals
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155 call it 'good' (and maybe even tasty? :-). We can't judge them unless they
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156 try to force their beliefs upon our society.
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157 And that's the basis of all our little wars.
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158 Words and values.
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159 Ammbassadores must be very careful in thier choises of words.
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160 .-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.Emu
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161 ch /choises/choices/
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162 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
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163
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164 Is it me, or is the band getting bigger?
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165 ++Come, sweet slumber, and shroud me in thy purple cloak+++++ Milch @ 4:55am
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166 ###############################################################
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167 Dear Backwater Participants:
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168
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169 I'm a graduate student in the school of Social Work at Portland
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170 State.
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171
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172 I've been using Backwater as a vehicle for a research project
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173 I'm doing for my masters degree thesis. The title of the thesis
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174 is "The psycho-social impact of a negative re-inforcer on the
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175 creative development and interaction in an electronic
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176 community". You have all unknowingly participated in my
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177 research and I would like to thank you.
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178
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179 The "WHO CAREDDS?" messages were the negative re-inforcer I
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180 selected for my experiment. The hypothesis of the research
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181 was that the constant repetition of the negative message
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182 would de-sensitize people to its impact.
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183
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184 Unfortunately, the total opposite proved the case, it merely
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185 infuriated everyone.
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186
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187 I discussed this phenomonon with my professor and he said it
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188 didn't invalidate my study. He said it only meant that I needed
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189 to re-examine my underlying premises to find my analytical
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190 error.
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191
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192 Actually, I'm so disappointed in my research findings that I'm
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193 seriously considering giving up my studies in social sciences.
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194 I think instead I'm going to pursue a career as a topless
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195 saxaphone player in a New Orleans whore house. Does anyone out
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196 there offer saxaphone lessons?
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197
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198 Whatever I decide to do with my career, the data collection
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199 aspect of the research is over and I'm going to stop entering
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200 the WHO CARES? messages. That'll only leave the original
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201 twit, and he hardly ever entered any of them anyway.
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202
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203 Cindi Jacobson
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204
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205 ##############################################################
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206 ========================================
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207 A while back a mentally deranged migrant
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208 worker was found carrying a dead baby
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209 around Hillsboro. He has sexually abused
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210 the child to death. The little girl died
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211 of massive bleeding from her virgina
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212 where he had forcefully penetrated her.
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213
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214 Right and wrong a, good and bad, are only
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215 semantic terms? Bullshit. Mr. Interceptor
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216 has spent too much time listening to
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217 half baked philosophy professors. The next
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218 thing you know he'll be arguing that
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219 Cindi Jacobson's research project was a
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220 valid work of science.
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221
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222 Sometimes I wonder about you people.
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223
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224 Dudley
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225 =======================================
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226 @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
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227 I think what the problem with semantics was that he was trying to determine
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228 if an object (ie screwdriver) was either good or bad. I don't think that
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229 objects can be good or bad (even nuclear wepons), or perhaps even actions,
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230 but the important issue is what conceptions are good or bad. I think that
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231 there can be no doubt that the above actions are bad (disgustingly so...
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232 and I really think we needed that graphic reminder of how bad things can
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233 get so close to our own homes).
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234 However, I'd like to pose a moral delema (sorry, I'm not sure I'm spelling
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235 correctly, my major wasn't english) to you all. We can say that killing of
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236 another person is wrong. The concept of using a screwdriver as a killing
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237 instrument was wrong. So is the use of nuclear wepons, only on a greater
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238 scale. So if you saw a person about to detonate a nuclear device, and the
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239 only real chance you could see to stop him in time is to kill him with you're
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240 (sorry again english fans) screwdriver, what would you do? Die with a clean
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241 concience or stop him?
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242 Fast Fred.
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243 @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
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244 Just a comment on some of the above..
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245 1) Slavery was not in its time a Moral issue as we are led to believe , It
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246 was an economic issue and was in fact dying out...If you stop to consider
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247 the expense of keeping people alive and well all their working lives then
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248 you can realize the problems faced by the owners of said people. It made
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249 sense to adopt (as they were doing) either a share crop system or direct
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250 wages.Both systems are still in use today, and I believe the direct wage
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251 system is by far the most evil of the two.Companies today can use people
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252 whenever and however they choose and when they (the workers) are used up
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253 or worn out or obselete , discard them into the trash heap of the unemplo
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254 yed..And if a complaint is made ..We say something like "thats the system"
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255 ect.
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256 2) who cares....you foolishly overlookedthat human (only) quality to
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257 resist the negative and accentuate the positive,to look forward to better
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258 things and to work to create them and or the conditions to make it better..
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259 faster..easier..
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260 3) Eating human ,,,,social conditioning here I admit,but still
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261 Bob Blackburn
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262 ____12/20/86__________________JD 2446785.3334_________12:00:08_PST_________
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263 #############################################################
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264 Cindi: Assuming you are who you say (who can tell on this crazy system?)
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265 I agree with your professor, the problem that the activity you took
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266 is something that is a lot more complex then it would seem on the
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267 surface. Feelings and emotions are very complex things. The problem
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268 was not the negative re-enforcement message, but rather the mechanism
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269 used to put it across. As with an earlier discussion, a supposedly
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270 positive message "Trust Jesus" actually can have significant negative
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271 aspects when it violates perceptions of what is the proper means of
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272 getting the message across. In the case described scralling the message
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273 on public surfaces and private surfaces in view of the public.
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274 What you were in reality messuring was violation of personal space,
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275 and not negative re-enforcement. (At least in my opinion.) The other
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276 aspects were there, but they were covered up by the stronger survival
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277 emotions (which is what is at the bottom of personal space violation).
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278 I think if you were to find a better why of performing your experiment
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279 that could isolate out the other emotions involved that you would have
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280 better luck. Or maybe sift through what you got to find out what you
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281 real found.
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282 I don't think you failed. Oh you didn't get the results you were expecting,
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283 but that is hardly anything new. But that isn't failure, it is sucess,
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284 you got a result. That is something positive and something to work with.
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285 Perhaps you can divert you original threoy to encompass what you found.
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286 That's how science moves ahead by leaps and bounds, when results come
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287 back that were unexpected.
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288 ######################### The Innkeeper ###############################
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289 Back to the other subject of right verses wrong etc.
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290 Slavery dying out? Depends on what time frame you look at it. When it started
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291 in the last major incident in the western world it was a great economic
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292 success. It solved many great problems of the western world at the time.
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293 It did not die because of the expense of feeding them, that is really not
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294 that difficult. The current system is far more expensive and in reality
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295 still relies heavily on the excessive use of resources for the use of the
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296 few. Slave labor is just that, a resource, nothing more (which is why
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297 society says it is bad, we feel that somehow people are more than just
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298 a resource to be used, so we teach our children that slavery is bad.)
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299 What caused slavery to come to disuse largely was that other cheaper
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300 methods of getting the job done were found, particulary the invention
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301 of the steam engine which lead to the industrial revolution. Slave
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302 labor stuck around for quite some time after that, but that is because
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303 it took time for the new way of life to spread through out the western
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304 society. But it is hardly a new thing. We have always had cases of slave
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305 labor through out history. One of the more well know other examples
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306 was the enslavement of the Hebrews in as described in the bible.
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307 It wasn't economic change that cuased that demise, but rather the
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308 abuse of their task masters became so great that it overcame the ingrained
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309 concept within the slaves that it was all they were good for. If you
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310 are going to die anyway, why not die a free man?
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311 As was pointed out on the right/wrong/good/bad they are not absolutes
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312 defined as a basic part of nature. It changes depending on circumstances.
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313 What about something that is neither good nor bad. Case in point,
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314 what about a rock, is it good or bad? What if it is part of a road bed?
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315 What if someone trips over it and breaks their leg? What if it is just
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316 sitting on a mountainside and noone has ever even seen it? Is it good
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317 or bad?
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318 The point is, if you are not aware of something how can it have good
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319 or bad qualities. This shows that good and bad is something that we
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320 define ourselves How about an earthquake? It isn't even an object,
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321 but an action. Yet we think of them as being bad because it disrupts
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322 our lives, yet there is no malice involved, it just happens.
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323 How about if a woman killed a man after intercourse, currently our
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324 society deems that as being a horible thing to do, but the Black Widow
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325 spider does it. Doe sthat make the Black Widow spider a bad creature?
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326 Well, my disks are all formated now, so it's back to work for me....
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327 ############################# The Innkeeper ##########################
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328 then you agree that slavery was an economic issue?????
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329 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++off
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330 ####################################################################
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331 Certianly there were large economic aspects to it. Though slavery can exist
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332 for other then economic reasons, the slavery that was involved in the early
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333 years just prior to the industrial revolution was based on economic
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334 reasons. That does not invalidate the existance of moral issues though.
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335 All through the period there were those who considered it a bad idea,
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336 and there were others who didn't care. I was not arguing the economic
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337 issue of slavery verses other forms of labor, i was exploring the moral
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338 issue of good and bad in the specific instance of employing a human being
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339 for the return of only a meager existance. Is it good or bad, and the
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340 difference in view point over time as society changes to the new rules
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341 we set for ourselves.
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342 That was the point about hating war, as long as we hate war, we acknowledge
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343 its existance. We create war by hating it. As long as we hate war it will
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344 exist because by that very hate we give it existance.
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345 ################################ The Innkeeper ############################
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346
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347 -------------------
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348 I don't know about other colleges and universities, but a Philosophy
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349 professor who claimed that right and wrong were entirely relative
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350 would not last long at the University of Oregon...
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351
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352 Max the Philosopher
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353 -------------------
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354 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
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355 If we accept, for the moment, that 'good' and 'bad' are relative terms,
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356 relative to the society in which the question is asked, then is truth
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357 also relative ?
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358
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359 Cindi - I know it seems that your study was a waste, but look at the state of
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360 Backwater !!! Enlightened and enlightening discussions. Thanks.
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361
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362 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Friar of the tree. [][][][][][][][][][][][]
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363
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364 JESUSS INSLAVES
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365
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366 ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
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367 Perhaps the words should not be "right" and "wrong", but rather "correct" or
|
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368 "incorrect" within a social context. For example, cannibalism is "incorrect"
|
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369 in relation to the mass of general guidelines given us by our social background
|
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370 . This could also be extended to other things such as crime. A person is not
|
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371 good or bad, but the social background they come from may differ greatly from
|
||
372 ours and therefore be "incorrect" in our view of them from the background
|
||
373 given us. These terms are a little less relative, but relative nonetheless.
|
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374 Words have so many meanings that what you don't say can be as important
|
||
375 or more important than what you do say. Learning a foreign language will
|
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376 make you more aware of this, that words mean different things in different
|
||
377 contexts, and one must be very aware in order to gain the meaning closest to
|
||
378 what the speaker or writer intended. Sometimes it would be nice if people
|
||
379 were selectively telepathic. They'd get their meaning across clearer, and would
|
||
380 not be as prone to misleading statements.
|
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381 Who knows? Thank you for allowing me my weekly quota of ranting and
|
||
382 raving. I used to be a language major, really. When one is taught straight
|
||
383 technical, one has a tendency not to understand. Try understanding the
|
||
384 'morphophonemics' (nice word, huh?) of Russian's genitive plural case.
|
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385 Computer science must be a lot easier to understand. At least it is a fairly
|
||
386 regular and results can be predicted.
|
||
387 'Til whenever,
|
||
388 UnBeLiEv
|
||
389 Er.
|
||
390
|
||
391 P.S. Milchar: I guess not. I can probably use my tax return to finance part
|
||
392 of it, unless I win the lottery. Who knows? Finagle's law must apply in any
|
||
393 situation.
|
||
394 ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
|
||
395 ************************************************************************
|
||
396 To the Editor:
|
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397 Frankly, I am embarrassed. Why can't our goverment loosen up a tad?
|
||
398 Tonight a discusion came up in our home, it envolved the soviets efforts
|
||
399 at peace. I truely believe that these are genuine signs of peace. It
|
||
400 was mentioned that it could all be propaganda and that I was being brain-
|
||
401 washed. I had an answer for this one too. Our goverment has been telling
|
||
402 us for years that we are the good guys, and the russians are the bad guys.
|
||
403 Considering just how "honest" the goverment has been lately, I consider
|
||
404 them to be distrustworthy. This has also been reinforced in what we see
|
||
405 on good old t.v.. Silly movies about the russians raiding the USA and
|
||
406 killing people. My god, are we really going to be sucked in by all of
|
||
407 that? I say no! The russians have really made some changes recently,
|
||
408 starting with allowing their people to run their own INDEPENDENT buisnesses.
|
||
409 That is capitalism. Also what about this Sokerav (sp) guy? They decided
|
||
410 to let him out of exile. And what is he doing? He's going home to Moscow.
|
||
411 His home, where he is at peace. The russians are willing to pull their
|
||
412 nukes out of europe, but Reagon bulks. What does Reagon do? He orders
|
||
413 a whole bunch more missles that will travel around on the nations railways.
|
||
414 Imagine that, a 7 warhead missle sitting down at UNION STATI
|
||
415 ON.
|
||
416 I guess Ive said my 3 or 4 cents worth, please no ranting and raving
|
||
417 about me being "unamerican." I love my country, most of the time.
|
||
418 ******************************kathyD*********************************************
|
||
419 THIS IS A MODEM CHECK. SORRY TO WASTE YOUR SPACE LIKE THIS. EVERYTHING SEEMS OK
|
||
420 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
|
||
421 NICE NOVEL. NO MESSAGE. NO POINT. NO PUNCHLINE. PLEASE, DO NOT REPLY.
|
||
422 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
|
||
423 Your kind of violence is so nonchalant, just a slap in the face, no power
|
||
424 fake it, fake it, for everybody else
|
||
425 cqme qn
|
||
426
|
||
427
|
||
428
|
||
429 nevermind!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
|
||
430 @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
|
||
431 Believe it or not, I had a conversation last night with a person who
|
||
432 still is very much in favor of "Peace through superior firepower". I
|
||
433 really didn't think there were any (at least at collage age level) left
|
||
434 around here. Sad really.....
|
||
435 Fast Fred @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
|
||
436 ===============================================================
|
||
437 Cindi: It took a real bitch to do what you did. You cloak your
|
||
438 activities in a lot of scientific jargon but the bottom line is
|
||
439 that your WHO CARES? vandalism hurt peoples feeling and you
|
||
440 don't give a damn!
|
||
441
|
||
442 Do you have any idea what the long term effect of all those
|
||
443 WHO CARES? messages? Of course you do, that was the whole idea
|
||
444 of your "experiment". You were trying to make people feel shitty
|
||
445 in the name of science. It's your kind of science that tortures
|
||
446 rats, plants implants in the brains of little kitties, and
|
||
447 injects drugs into prison "volunteers".
|
||
448
|
||
449 It wouldn't be nearly so bad if you didn't gloss over what
|
||
450 you did with your scientific impartiality and condescension.
|
||
451 I know that most of the guys on this board will stick up for
|
||
452 what you did because you're a girl. I think there some things
|
||
453 even sex doesn't excuse.
|
||
454
|
||
455 Disgruntled
|
||
456 =============================================================
|
||
457 #######################################################################
|
||
458 Certainly truth is relative. As are facts. Truth is usually based on
|
||
459 personal observation something we call a fact. Yet this is based on
|
||
460 presumption that what we see it true. Fact and thus truth has been
|
||
461 continually disrupted through out history. And by that many times it
|
||
462 has disrupted our notions of right and wrong. (I don't use the terms
|
||
463 correct or incorrect, because it just white-washes the use of the concept.
|
||
464 I agree that correct and incorrect are closer usage to what is being ment,
|
||
465 but since everyone uses right or wrong which are more powerful words
|
||
466 to get across their ideas, I use the same words mor my arguements.)
|
||
467 But back to facts and truth... A recent example of truth being changed
|
||
468 on a global scale, and thus changing our reality as our society has
|
||
469 defined it, was Einstien's theorys. Before that we lived in a Neutonian
|
||
470 world where our ideas about the world were based on his laws. Everything
|
||
471 was fixed. You did something, and it affected something else. Simple
|
||
472 and striaght forward. What goes up must come down. For every action
|
||
473 there is an equal and oposite reaction. This was great stuff compared to
|
||
474 what we believed before that. But then came along Einstien with his
|
||
475 everything is relative stuff, and suddenly the world changed and took
|
||
476 on a more complex form. Things weren't quite so easy anymore. Limits
|
||
477 were defined, actions didn't always cause oposite and equal reactions.
|
||
478 physists had a hayday (and still are) because they finally had new
|
||
479 worlds and concepts to explore. Even right this moment they are in
|
||
480 the process of redefining our world, finding new understandings to
|
||
481 old concepts and many times disrupting the old ideas so badly that
|
||
482 they must be thrown away entirely. Thus a one time fact becomes nothing
|
||
483 but a concpet that is no longer valid. And that is what fact is, a
|
||
484 concept that we believe to be true because we have observed other facts
|
||
485 that prove it to be so. The problem is that we are basing our proofs on
|
||
486 exsiting concepts of how the world is. An example is before Copernicus,
|
||
487 the world was the center of everything, and all the planets revolved
|
||
488 around it. The very basis of astronomy was to more closly define those
|
||
489 orbits. No one every really considered that it might not be that way.
|
||
490 Then along came Copernicus with this new idea. And all of the sudden
|
||
491 the world changed. The old facts were thrown out, and new ones put in
|
||
492 there place. Now observations and new fatcs are based on those new facts
|
||
493 that Copernicus created. If the very facts we base our beliefs on are
|
||
494 that unstable, who is to say that the facts we belief today will be
|
||
495 believed tomorrow?
|
||
496 "We like to believe that the world progresses in an orderly fashion,
|
||
497 that all advances are based on previous knowledge. Yet history has shown
|
||
498 that everytime a new major advance has taken place it has required that
|
||
499 we throw away all of our old ideas in order to accept the new ones."
|
||
500 James Burke -
|
||
501 ########################### The Innkeeper ##############################
|
||
502 To Unbeliever: The problem with words is that in themselves they are meaningless
|
||
503 that is why they change from day to day. words are the carriers of ideas.
|
||
504 When an idea can't be gotten across with an existing word we create a new
|
||
505 one. often this is done by simply attaching a new meaning to and old word,
|
||
506 or slightly modifying it to attach the new meaning. My feathers get ruffled
|
||
507 when someone says that a word is not valid because it doesn't exist in some
|
||
508 dictionary. Any language that doesn't change is a dead language. It is dead
|
||
509 because there is no one who uses it on a daya to day basis, and thus there is
|
||
510 no need to create new words. It isn't old bearded professors sitting in
|
||
511 some dark room filled with books that create new words. It is the people
|
||
512 who use them. We the people who speak and use the language every day. When
|
||
513 we need a new word we create it. When a concept dies the word that was
|
||
514 attached to it goes into storage. maybe a new concept will be attached to
|
||
515 it later, or maybe it will never see the light of day again. Words are
|
||
516 tools that we take down and use to convay our concepts to others. And
|
||
517 when we are done with them we put them away again.
|
||
518 ############################# The Innkeeper ###############################
|
||
519 <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
|
||
520 CINDI> IF YOU WANT GUNIEA PIGS, GOTO THE ZOO. KEEP US OUT OF YOUR RESEARCH.
|
||
521 I PERSONALLY BELIEVE THAT THERE ARE A GREAT MANY SOCIOLOGISTS AND PSYCHOLOGISTS OUT THERE THAT ARE A LOT CRAZIER THAN ANY
|
||
522 OF THE PEOPLE THEY STUDY OR "HELP".
|
||
523 THEY CAUSE A LOT OF THE WORLDS PROBLEMS!!!!!!!!!!!111
|
||
524
|
||
525 THEY BECOME SCHOOL ADMINISTRATORS AND GOVT. OFFICIALS. YOU KNOW WHAT HAPPENS THEN.
|
||
526
|
||
527 PURSUE ANOTHER CAREER FOR YOUR OWN SAKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
|
||
528
|
||
529 <><><><>><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
|
||
530
|
||
531
|
||
532 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
|
||
533 SKATER DUDE:How do you get to the power room in ADVENT X-5?????????????????
|
||
534
|
||
535 Help?????!!!!!
|
||
536
|
||
537 A MAN CALLED GUMBY
|
||
538
|
||
539 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
|
||
540
|
||
541
|
||
542 One day, The Art Of Noise met Tommy Cooper on his way to hear Weber's music,
|
||
543 when he told them that one should always listen to Webber's music in mauave!
|
||
544
|
||
545 ++++545+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
|
||
546 UnBeLiEvEr: The person you live with knocked on my abode's door this morn,
|
||
547 looking for you. Said person was in the company of a person called Denise,
|
||
548 ring any bells? I told him where I thought you were (which you are, being
|
||
549 able to enter here).
|
||
550 program search;var truth:boolean;begin repeat writeln('searching for truth')
|
||
551 until false end.
|
||
552 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Milchar ++++++ December 21, 1986 ++++
|
||
553 hello is anyone out their I'm brand new to the feild of telecomm and though
|
||
554
|
||
555 ht I would give you guys or gals depending on witch this message is
|
||
556 going to. to leva
|
||
557 mike day are you out there?
|
||
558 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
|
||
559 for the next 60 seconds this station a test of the emergency broadcast system.
|
||
560
|
||
561
|
||
562
|
||
563
|
||
564
|
||
565
|
||
566
|
||
567
|
||
568 THIS STATION has been conduting a test of the emergency broadcast syste
|
||
569
|
||
570
|
||
571 system this would have been a act
|
||
572 enter
|
||
573
|
||
574
|
||
575
|
||
576
|
||
577
|
||
578 Where can I get a current list of BBS in the Portland area. leave message for
|
||
579
|
||
580
|
||
581
|
||
582 for Jonny V.
|
||
583 DE 10
|
||
584 ******************************lurkiousmodiest*******kathyD********************
|
||
585 Cindi - Since no one has yet offered saxaphone lessons, I thought I would
|
||
586 at least help your career along by offering you topless lessons. My place
|
||
587 or yours ? -- Lech
|
||
588
|
||
589 $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
|
||
590 Cindi:
|
||
591 For many reasons, I stopped checking in at the Inn frequently about a year a
|
||
592 ago. Several months later, I peeped in a few times, and what I recall most, are
|
||
593 the WHO CARES. I would sigh, convinced that the Backwater was permanently
|
||
594 infested with twits, and not venture back for long periods. If you are what you
|
||
595 say you are, take what you will from my comments. I learned something, based on
|
||
596 what I've read preceding this message, my hasty judgement may have deprived me
|
||
597 of some rich discussion here. Perhaps the WHO CARES encouraged people to rebel
|
||
598 and/or care. I wouldn't know, as I mentioned I haven't been around.
|
||
599 __________________________________
|
||
600
|
||
601 To the Innkeeper: Nice to see you being so vocal here, you're leading interes-
|
||
602 esting discussions. When I was here before, you weren't that often.
|
||
603
|
||
604 $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Miss Nomer $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
|
||
605 ##########################################################################
|
||
606 True, it seems to go in cycles. Usually I just stay in the background
|
||
607 and let the others talk. But every once in a while a subject suits my
|
||
608 fancy and I jump in with both feet. (and often times as not end up with them getting broken!)
|
||
609 ####################### The Innkeeper ###################################
|
||
610 Mr. Johnny V.
|
||
611 The BBS system "MC3" p
|
||
612 publishes a monthly newslett
|
||
613 er that lists many of portla
|
||
614 nd's Boards
|
||
615
|
||
616
|
||
617
|
||
618
|
||
619 (pexcuse my weird typing) Boards, or u can c
|
||
620 contact Les Brunker on the "Q". Its number is 771-xxxx. Just
|
||
621 leave him an E-mail and he'll be glad to rgive you some numbers.
|
||
622 mCraig Chatter
|
||
623 ChatChatChatChatCjhatChatChatChatChatChatChatChatChatChatchatChatChatChatChat
|
||
|
||
TOTAL NUMBER OF LINES = 623
|