621 lines
35 KiB
Plaintext
621 lines
35 KiB
Plaintext
LIST
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FILE ON
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MARGIN IS 80
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STATUS: ALL ALLOWED
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NUMBER OF LINES: 616
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1 If you are in need of help, you need but ask....
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2 ********************** REMOVED: 18 AUG 83 ***************************
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3 Welcome to BWMS (BackWater Message System) Mike Day System operator
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4 ************************************************************
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5 GENERAL DISCLAIMER: BWMS IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY INFORMATION PLACED ON
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6 THIS SYSTEM.
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7 BWMS was created as an electronic bill board. BWMS is a privatly owned
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8 and operated system which is currently open for use by the general public.
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9 No restrictions are placed on the use of the system.
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10 It is intended that the system be normally used for messages and
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11 advertisments by the users. As the system is privatly owned, I retain the
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12 right to remove any and all messages which I may find offensive
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13 to me. Additionally because of the limited size of the system, it will be
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14 periodically purged of older messages. (only 629 lines of data can be saved)
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15 The saved information will be cycled to drive 'B' while the information on
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16 drive 'B' will be archived, and a fresh disk will be installed in drive 'A'.
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17 To leave a message, type 'ENTER' and use ctrl/C or break to get out
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18 of the enter mode. The message is automaticly stored.
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19 If after entering the message you find you made a mistake,
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20 use the replace command to replace the line.
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21 To exit from the system, type 'OFF' then hang up.
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22 Type 'HELP' to see other commands that are available on the system.
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23 ========================================
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24
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25 <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
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26
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27
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28 Oh sublime one!
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29
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30
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31 Your passing has left this fair
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32 inn without hope....Yet the news of
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33 your return spreads quickly to even
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34 such as our establishment,be it far
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35 off the highway as it is...
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36
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37
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38 Fill once again these halls with
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39 your melodious voice,and grace the
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40 patrons with your delicate beauty,so
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41 as to revive these tired sectors to
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42 their once lively and gay demeanor...
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43
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44
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45 We can only hope that my humble
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46 plea will not fall upon silent
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47 print-heads,as we are desparate,
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48 and you are our life-spring....
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49
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50
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51
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52 Aaron of old.....
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53 <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
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54
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55
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56 F.O.A.D. AARON
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57
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60 What is this garbage about "the government did...."? In America who is the
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61 government? It might be valid to say "an official of the government", or
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62 better give his name. The government is not a single, monolithic faceless
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63 thing, it is a large group of people, hired by people we elect. They are
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64 (or can be made) accountable to US, the people. As to the article in the
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65 paper, as I haven't seen it, I can't discuss it directly, but the comments
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66 we have a "right" to study anything. Please quote chapter and verse in the
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67 constitution, or applicable statutes giving this 'right'. Not everything
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68 called a "class" is merely education, it could be so called to cover the
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69 fact that it is an attempt to overthrough the legal government by force, or
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70 a meeting of thieves.
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71 ...Paul, my present photos are usually scenics or still lifes, with a large
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72 dose of abstract, or things I consider beautiful, such as flowers. (Also
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73 includes computer video graphics.) 35 mm strictly, usually slides. And you??
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74 /////////////////////////////////BAD\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
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75 Do we have a right to learn, or to be creative? Who owns ideas involved?
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76 Case in point: a photo of a statue. Is the photo a 'copy' of the statue,
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77 with rights to the sculptor, or is it an art form of its own, with rights
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78 to the photographer, or is it the property of the subject of statue, or???
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79 How about using it to copy the statue for sale in competition with the
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80 original sculpture? What if it is "altered" to show a "personal statement"?
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81 //////////\\\\\\\\
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82 ***************************************************************
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83 The Hoodview Amateur Radio Club will hold it's first
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84 Hamfair/Computer Show Aug. 27 9-6 and Aug. 28 9-3 at MT.
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85 Hood Community College. There will be comerical diaplays
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86 food and swap tables (for radio and computer items only)
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87 The admission is $2.00 ,12 and under free. Swap tables
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88 are $5.00. For more information contact Bob at 771-xxxx
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89 *************************Bob********************************
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90
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91
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92 F.O.A.D ?
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93
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94
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95 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
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96
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97 HANLON'S RAZOR
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98 Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.
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99
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100 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
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101 /uN@@
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102 Well, elberich, you've done it again. To my comment, "forcing a minoriy
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103 to cooperate in a venture of the majority" you said, "A better definition of
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104 Democracy one could not ask for." Let's see, is this really true?
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105 Consider this: Let's have a vote. The MAJORITY, the white guys, vote
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106 to again enslave the MINORITY, the blacks. All fair and square, right? One
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107 man one vote, right? After all, the blacks can participate in the voting,
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108 right? And if they object, ask them why they don't believe in DEMOCRACY, right?
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109 Or another vote. Let's vote on a NATIONAL RELIGION. Everybody has his
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110 own vote, but when the tally is over, everyone has to adopt the chosen national
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111 religion. No fair sneaking around worshipping another diety, anyone doing that
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112 will be locked up for OPPOSING DEMOCRACY, right? You have to go to the chosen
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113 church whenever they say, without fail.
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114
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115 While we're on the subject, let's have a vote on continuing Hitler's
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116 escapades, and gas the Jews. Remember, we're gonna have a vote. (That's
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117 democracy!) And what right do the Jews have to complain? They can vote, too!
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118 And if they lose, too bad. They have to sacrifice for the majority!
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119
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120 What's wrong here? Why do each of the three preceeding votes precisely
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121 satisfy your criterion for Democracy (majority vote) but are so clearly wrong?
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122 After all, if we are to support democracy, it should have something to say about
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123 the majority abusing the minority. But your definition doesn't even address
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124 this question.
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125
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126 Until you are willing to accept the idea that the majority does not
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127 have any right to coerce the minority on a large number of subjects, you will
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128 continue to believe that it is right to tax people who choose to attend private
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129 schools. As for the term 'knee-jerk liberal', while it may be accurate, I
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130 hardly ever use it because most 'knee-jerk liberals' tend to think that anyone
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131 calling them that must be some sort of conservative, and dismiss the description
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132 as a poorly guided insult. Ironically, closest description of me might be a
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133 'classical liberal', one who believes in the rights of the individual, and
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134 not the state., or even the majority. A good current term for this is a
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135 Libertarian.
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136 ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
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137
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138 &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
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139 OK Mr. Tax Rebel, what would you have our country do. 'Let's not have anyone
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140 pay any taxes. Let's all live like good little citizens. Who needs government,
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141 and all it does for us. Who needs police and roads and social security
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142 and national security and fire protection and libraries and schools and
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143 everything else our taxes pay for. You should feel damn lucky you can even
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144 be saying some of the things you are saying. In many countries, such talk would
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145 be deemed traitorious, and you would be sent to the lower parts of the earth.
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146 You call paying taxes theft. OK...we get rid of taxes, and what happens, our
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147 society falls apart. What do you suggest we do instead of pay taxes.
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148 Let's play anarchy!!! everyone for themselves. Shoot you neighbor if he tries
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149 to steal something you own. Come on Mr. Tax Rebel, lets hear your great
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150 ideas. And no more ambigious statements like 'Paying taxes is like theft'. What
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151 a simplistic way of putting things!
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152 &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
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153
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154 to "============"
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155 I read the article about the student arrests. Are YOU aware
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156 of the fact that Khaddaffi (sp?) has been trying to get his hands
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157 on a nuclear weapon for some time? The more I hear about him, the
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158 more I suspect that he is trying his best to be another Hitler!
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159 It may not have been "right" to arrest those students, but is it
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160 "right" to teach them how to build nuclear devices or maintain
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161 aircraft, if these skills may be used against us and our allies?
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162 There are no easy answers to moral & ethical questions, if there
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163 were we would have had the answers YEARS ago!
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164 I suspect I know who the "TAX REBEL" is and thus I remeber
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165 most of his comments from a series of disks on taxation about a
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166 year ago. One thing I noticed is that one of his opponents said
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167 "if they can afford to send their kids to private schools, then
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168 they can afford the taxes". Well, I'm sorry but that is BULLSHIT!
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169 You have what is known as "the deep pockets syndrome". They may NOT
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170 be able to afford BOTH the taxes AND the private school. This
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171 same syndrome is responsible (in part) for high insurance rates.
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172 You know, tell the jury that the defendant is insured, and they'll
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173 give HUGE awards. After all, everbody knows the insurance co. has
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174 LOTS of money. This means that they insurance rates go up EVERY
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175 time one of these outrageous awards is given. If you need a simpler
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176 explanation: Just because someone can afford something you can't
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177 doesn't mean his finances are unlimited!
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178 Since the taxes in question are supposed to provide for
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179 education, why not allow deduction of the money that will be
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180 SAVED because the taxpayers kid ISN'T in public school? After all,
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181 you did say something about "paying his FAIR share" didn't you?
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182 As for DEMOCRACY, I recently read an applicable comment:
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183 the main difference between democracy as practiced in America &
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184 in the USSR, is that we recognize that the majority does not have
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185 the right to oppress the minority.
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186 Remember, we were set up as a REPUBLIC, NOT a DEMOCRACY. (not
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187 the either term has a sufficiently precise meaning to be of any
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188 use!)
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189 Another justification for that tax credit: most private
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190 schools seem to have higher standards (and to turn out "better
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191 educated" graduates) than public schools. Since we all agree that
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192 education is important, we should give the credit since this person
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193 is making sure of a "better" education for his child.
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194
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195 If you want arguments for the opposing view, just check
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196 the papers.
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197 ___________________________________Leonard_______________________
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198
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199 I am continuously amazed to find that others feel I should use
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200 my hard earned money to support their favorite cause. Saying
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201 that it is "My duty" to do so. Sir, I'll have you know that it
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202 is NOT my duty to serve your causes. I sweat blood to get where
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203 I am today, and I'll not have someone else take my hard earned
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204 money and postion without a fight. I do not mind paying my fair
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205 share for schooling of children, as long as it is FAIR! To say
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206 that I should pay far in excess of what others pay for the same
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207 thing I do NOT find fair! Yes, I went to a public school, and I
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208 consider the tax I am paying to be just repayment for that
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209 schooling minimal value that it was. Most of my money was
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210 earned not as a result of that schooling, but rather was a
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211 result of my own hard work and self study to get where I am. As
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212 for your inuendo that unless I pour out all my hard earned
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213 money for your cause that all the poor people in the world will
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214 starve because I refused, you can take your 'guilt trip' and
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215 STUFF IT. I will spend my money my own way for my OWN causes.
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216 I earned that money, and I feel that I have a right to decide
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217 how I spend it not someone else. You seem to think that just
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218 because I have enough money to live comfortably that it was
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219 handed to me on a silver platter. NOTHING could be futher from
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220 the truth. As I stated earlier, I sweated blood to get here,
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221 if you want to give money away sir I suggest you sweat a
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222 little blood and make your own money to give away, but then
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223 that would be too hard wouldn't it? You would rather sit back
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224 and say how wrong it is for me to not support your cause.
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225 @@@@@@@ An Irate Taxpayer @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
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226 @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
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227
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228 *************************************************************
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229 Boy, I'll say he's irate! whewwww....
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230 **** CISTOP MIKEY STAYING OUT OF THE WHOLE THING **** 14 AUG 83 ****
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231 ******************************************************************
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232
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233 And now for something completely different.......
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234 -----=====-----=====-----
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235 The CORKBOARD BBS is up and running
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236 in a test mode. If you remember the
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237 NNBBS, it's us. Just a different name.
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238 Right now, we are in a test stage...we
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239 would like anyone who wants to to call.
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240 The number is 654-xxxx. We got our old
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241 number back because the guy who had it
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242 before got tired of getting all of those
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243 strange calls......???
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244
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245 Well, give it a call, and see what happens....
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246
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247 Signed,
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248 Stan Dolson
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249 Van Perley
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250 ---Sysops
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251 ================================================================================
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252
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253 LENNY,LENNY,LENNY
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254
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255
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256 IF HIS ROYAL INEPTIPITUDE KADAFFI WAS THE ONE ARRESTED I DON'T THINK ANY ONE
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257 ON THE FACE OF EARTH WOULD WOULD COMPLAIN .... HOWEVER THE OBJECTION I RAISE
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258 IS OGROSS GENERALITIES. IF THE STUDENTS WERE ARRESTED FOR SOME ACTIVITY
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259 THAT IS DIRECTLY CONTRARY TO THE INTEREST OF OUR COUNTRY THEN LET IT BE STATED
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260 SO.... NOT SOME NEBULOUS HOUSE RESOULITION THAT PROHIBITS FORIGN NATIONALS
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261 FROM STUDYING SOMRE CURRICULUMS THAT COULD BE USED AGAINST OUR "NATIONAL
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262 INTERESTS"..... THOSE TYPES OF ACTS REMIND ME TOO MUCH OF THE INTERNMENT OF THE
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263 JAPANESE DURING WW II ....AND NOW ARE JUST MARGINALY ADDRESSING .
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264
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265 THESE OVER-REACTIONS IN THE NAME OF NATIONAL SECURITY MUST CEASE....OUR OWN
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266 FREEDOMS MAY HANG IN BALANCE .... IN YEARS TO COME
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267
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268 THINK ABOUT IT....
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269
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270 ================================================================================
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271
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272 ATTENTION STAN DOLSON!!!!!!!
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273 I called the Corkboard BBS and I couldn't log off! What you need
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274 to do before you type an "AT H0", send a "+++" to the modem
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275 first. This should correct your problem. Good luck and thanks!
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276
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277 Chris Bradley
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278 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
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279
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280 WELL, THE GREAT TAX DEBATE SEEMS TO HAVE DEVELOPED INTO A SITUATION WITH
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281 2 SEPARATE CAMPS. THOSE WHO SAY "I'VE GOT MINE, JACK, SO BACK OFF!!!",
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282 SAYING THAT THEY HAVE EARNED WHAT THEY HAVE AND EVERYONE ELSE IN THE
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283 WORLD SHOULD JUST F*** OFF AND DIE (THE SELFISH ONES), AND A CAMP THAT
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284 IS OF THE OPINION THAT THE HAVES OF THE WORLD HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY TO
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285 THE HAVE-NOTS (THE GUILTY ONES). I DON'T THINK THAT ANYTHING WILL BE
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286 ACCOMPLISHED BECAUSE THE TWO CAMPS HAVE TOTALLY DIFFERENT ASSUMPTIONS
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287 ABOUT THE WORLD. THE FIRST GROUP FEELS THAT ALL ACTION IS BASED ON SELF
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288 INTEREST, AND THAT NOTHING IS IMPORTANT OTHER THAN THEIR CREATURE
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289 COMFORTS AND THEIR CUTE LITTLE BOTTOMS. THE OTHER GROUP SEEMS TO FEEL
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290 THAT THOSE THAT HAVE ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THOSE THAT DON'T, AND ARE GUILTY
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291 ABOUT IT. WHEN A PRIORI ASSUMPTIONS ARE SO DIFFERENT, A CONCLUSION IS
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292 NOT LIKELY TO BE REACHED. MY IDEA? I THINK THAT BOTH SIDES ARE
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293 PIG-HEADED. BUT, IF IT CAME DOWN TO IT, I THINK THAT I WOULD TRUST THE
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294 GUILTY GROUP MORE THAN THE SELFISH GROUP. AT LEAST THEY SEEM TO HAVE
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295 CONSCIENCES. THE SELFISH GROUP WOULD DO JUST ABOUT ANYTHING IF THEY
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296 COULD BENEFIT FROM IT. SO C'MON, PEOPLE, LET'S HAVE A CHANGE OF SUBJECT.
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297
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298 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
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299
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300 TO: '[][][][]'
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301 A bit extreme don't you think? But basicly I would have to
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302 agree with you that the two 'camps' are intractable.
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303 Unfortunately, they tend to feed on each other, the more the
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304 'have nots' complain about the 'haves', the greater the cry
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305 from the 'haves' about the 'have nots'. I feel that both sides
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306 have some degree of validity, but I myself if I had to choose
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307 would probably go with the 'selfish ones' at least you know
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308 what their motives are, and know what to expect from them.
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309 ***** The In Sane Scientist ******************************
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310
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311 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
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312
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313 ACTUALLY, I DOUBT THAT ANYONE ON THIS SYSTEM COULD EVEN COME CLOSE TO
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314 QUALIFYING AS A "HAVE NOT". THE USERS OF TERMINALS AND PERSONAL
|
||
315 COMPUTERS ARE GENERALLY WELL OFF, OR AT LEAST COMFORTABLE. I WILL SAY
|
||
316 THAT I'M SURPRISED THAT SO MANY PEOPLE WOULD DENY AN EDUCATION TO SOMEONE
|
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317 THAT CAN'T AFFORD IT. I SHOULDN'T BE, THOUGH. IF THE SIXTIES WAS THE
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318 DECADE OF "SOCIAL CONSCIOUSNESS", AND THE SEVENTIES THE "ME DECADE", THE
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319 EIGHTIES SO FAR LOOKS LIKE THE "MINE DECADE". EVERYONE SEEMS TO BE
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320 LOOKING OUT FOR THEMSELVES, AND WHO CARES ABOUT ANYONE ELSE. AND IF YOU
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321 THINK THAT I'M EXTREME, LOOK AT THE AD HOMINEM ARGUMENTS OF THE ANTI-TAX
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322 GUY ABOVE. NOW THAT'S EXTREME!!!!!
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323
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324 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][]PAM[][][][]
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325
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326 That depends on your view point, given the comments by the other side
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327 of the debaters, I would have to say it sounds more like the
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328 "GIMME DECADE".
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329 @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
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330
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331 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
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332
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333 THE "GIMME DECADE"? YES, YOU'RE RIGHT. GIMME A CHANCE, GIMME A FAIR BREAK,
|
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334 GIMME SOME OF THAT OL' ROCK & ROLL (OOPS, EXCUSE ME, I JUST CAN'T MAINTAIN
|
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335 SOMETIMES). ONCE AGAIN, NOBODY IS SAYING "GIMME" AS MUCH AS THEY ARE SAYING
|
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336 GIVE THEM. AS FAR AS I CAN SEE, NONE OF YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT A FREE RIDE,
|
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337 OR WELFARE, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT A MINIMUM EDUCATION SO THAT THESE PEOPLE
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338 CAN STAY OFF PUBLIC ASSISTANCE WHEN THEY ARE ADULTS. TO PARAPHRASE THE
|
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339 COMMERCIALS, YOU CAN PAY FOR THEM NOW, OR YOU CAN PAY FOR THEM LATER.
|
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340
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||
341 [][][][][][][][][][][][][]PAM[][][][][]
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342
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||
343 STEWART'S LAW OF RETROACTION
|
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344
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||
345 It is easier to get forgiveness than it
|
||
346 is to get permission.
|
||
347
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||
348 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
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349
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350 Yes, that is the definition of democracy: vote of the majority. For REAL!!
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||
351 We can afford to let minorities or individuals go their own way, though,
|
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352 because we are very rich, and very law abiding. We believe that individuals
|
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353 have rights, and vote (democracy, remember) to allow these rights. The vote
|
||
354 of the majority can remove the rights. We can do this because we can afford
|
||
355 to. A poorer society might not be able to afford it; in primitive Eskimo
|
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356 culture, which was basicly communal, a shirker was simply frozen out of
|
||
357 society by being ignored. He could still take what ever he needed, but often
|
||
358 did not and just moved to another town. I would not want to bet on his chances
|
||
359 in a tight situation, because the community often couldn't afford to support
|
||
360 a drone. In the US we can afford deviations from the norm, and allow them,
|
||
361 within limits. Even here, though, if you get in the way enough, you will find
|
||
362 society against you.
|
||
363 As to the diference between "democracy" here and in the USSR, the diference
|
||
364 is that here it is real; while in the USSR, the vote is prerigged. When there
|
||
365 is only one name on the ballot, and only the votes for that one are counted,
|
||
366 a 99% turnout, with 98% voting for the only candidate doesn't mean much.
|
||
367
|
||
368 Kadafi? Megolomanic, surely. However, in which arab country do women vote?
|
||
369 Or go to real schools, or hold public office, or serve in the armed forces?
|
||
370 He is probalby better than most of what he is trying to overthrow.
|
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371 No, I don't approve his methods.
|
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372
|
||
373 All: please note the diference between legal and moral.
|
||
374 ////////////////////////////////////BAD\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
|
||
375 -_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-
|
||
376 Personally, I think it's all a commie plot!
|
||
377
|
||
378 TRON
|
||
379 -_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-
|
||
380 PAM, I was trying to find some sort of middle ground in my comments
|
||
381 regarding a deduction/credit/whatever for putting your kids thru
|
||
382 private school. I STILL don't see how allowing the guy a credit
|
||
383 of the portion of his EDUCATIONAL tax bite equal to the portion
|
||
384 that would be paying for his kid (if his kid was in public school)
|
||
385 is "denying someone an education". If he can afford to put his kid
|
||
386 thru a private school, there will still be money left after this
|
||
387 "credit"! I am NOT saying that he can deduct the cost of the private schooling.
|
||
388 I'm saying he can deduct WHAT THE STATE IS SAVING because his kid
|
||
389 isn't in a public school. I do not believe that this has ever
|
||
390 been seriously suggested outside of the current discussions.
|
||
391 Most of the tax credit proposals you hear about are "tutition
|
||
392 refunds". My suggestion isn't.
|
||
393 BAD: try again, WE can't vote to remove peoples' rights
|
||
394 (at least not their CONSTITUTIONAL rights). The SENATE would
|
||
395 have to vote on an amendment, then if it passed the STATE LEGISLATURES
|
||
396 would vote on it. At NO time do the VOTERS get to say anything
|
||
397 about it. As I keep saying THIS IS A REPUBLIC! We have a lot of
|
||
398 democratic trappings, but when you get down to the nitty-gritty
|
||
399 were are NOT a DEMOCRACY. (If you read your history, and the
|
||
400 constitution etc, you will see that they never intended us to be
|
||
401 a democracy.)
|
||
402 To "======", that "vague resolution" went after people
|
||
403 learning aircraft maintenance & construction and NUCLEAR ENGINEERING. Or didn't
|
||
404 you read that far? By the way, these are FOREIGN NATIONALS we are
|
||
405 talking about, NOT US citizens, so your internment analogy doesn't
|
||
406 apply. Since I have not seen a copy of the resolution, I can't
|
||
407 comment on it, but what has been done so far does not seem to be
|
||
408 all that terrible. The students were arrested AND RELEASED. The
|
||
409 Immigration service seems to have avoided abuses, as far as I can
|
||
410 tell (or don't you consider the above-mentioned courses to be things
|
||
411 that we don't need to teach Khaddafi's subjects?) As to Khaddafi's
|
||
412 rule in Libya, remember he is (or was, my info isn't up to date)
|
||
413 sheltering IDI AMIN! Also remember that Chamberlain et al thought
|
||
414 that Hitler wasn't all that bad.
|
||
415 ______________________________Leonard_______________________
|
||
416 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
|
||
417 SOUNDS GOOD, LEO. I GUESS THAT THE EXACT DEFINITION OF WHAT YOU WERE
|
||
418 PROPOSING EXCAPED ME. YOUR IDEA SOUNDS A LOT BETTER THAN WHAT I'VE SEEN IN THE
|
||
419 PAPERS OR HEARD FROM THE MOUTHS OF OUR "LEADERS". AND WE SEEM TO HAVE 2 KIND
|
||
420 SHIRKERS. THOSE THAT CAN'T (OR WON'T) PAY THEIR WAY, AND THOSE (LIKE OUR TAX
|
||
421 REBEL) WHO FEEL THEY SHOULD BE EXEMPT FROM ANY TAXES OR OTHER RESPONSIBLITIES.
|
||
422 WHAT TO DO WITH SOMEONE WHO FEELS NO REPONSIBILITY TO SOCIETY? WE CAN'T
|
||
423 DO WHAT YOUR ESKIMOS DID. OF COURSE, THE I.R.S. HAS LONG ARMS, AND LOVES A
|
||
424 FIGHT. IF OUR TAX REBEL CARRIES HIS THEORIES OUT IN PRACTICE, WE
|
||
425 WON'T BE HEARING A LOT FROM HIM IN THE FUTURE.
|
||
426
|
||
427 [][][][][][][][][][][][][]PAM[][][][][]
|
||
428
|
||
429 &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
|
||
430 Again Mr. Tax Rebel. So you sweated blood to get where you are. And the
|
||
431 schooling you received was minimal eh? Well talk about BullShit! Everyone
|
||
432 likes to brag that they are selftaught. Everyone likes to brag that they
|
||
433 didn't learn much in school, but after school was over, they taught themselves
|
||
434 everything they know. If I have ever heard a crock of shit this is it.
|
||
435 Come on...get off this thing about schooling being minimal. And just what do
|
||
436 you consider fair in paying your taxes? What is your twisted definition
|
||
437 of fair? This I have to hear!
|
||
438 &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
|
||
439
|
||
440 Several of you seem to feel that any alternative to the current tax-support
|
||
441 process for public schooling equates to denial for certain classes of citizens.
|
||
442 Can't you imagine that a system can be found to indeed insure the opportunity
|
||
443 for public education for those who want it, without unduly burdening those who
|
||
444 choose another schooling method for themselves?! I still seek value for my
|
||
445 expenditures, whether taxes or discretionary consumption; if public education
|
||
446 is as good and as fiscally sound as it can be, then I have no complaint.
|
||
447 Otherwise, I want to help reform wasteful, non-effective teaching situations.
|
||
448 AARON: I applaud your observation on the importance of seeing government
|
||
449 services performed or botched by individuals, not by some nameless blob.
|
||
450 All policies are formed by people with names, all dollars spent, all discipline
|
||
451 meted out by individuals who, in my thinking, must be held accountable even tho'
|
||
452 they may be elected, or may be low-paid, or may be "political royalty".
|
||
453 SCHOOL DEBATERS: Thanks for your comments...they are grist for mental mills.
|
||
454 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dave ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
|
||
455 am I doing this right?? I mean I never tried this system before and personally
|
||
456 I don't like it. Why can't this system be like others?? pms or bit bucket are ea
|
||
457 easy to understand and easy to use. I don't like this system and I say a change
|
||
458 is needed.
|
||
459
|
||
460 $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
|
||
461 WELL,WELL,
|
||
462 THE EDUCATION DEBATE SEEMS TO HAVE COME DOWN TO A DEBATE ABOUT WHO
|
||
463 SHOULD PAY. NO MORE WHAT,HOW, OR WHY TO TEACH. THINGS DO GERERALLY GET
|
||
464 AROUND TO WHO PICKS UP THE CHECK, DON'T THEY.
|
||
465 GIVING IT UP SEEMS APPROPRIATE TO ME. IT WAS FUN WHILE IT LASTED, BUT IT
|
||
466 SEEMS TO BE OVER.
|
||
467 GENETIC ENGINEERING MIGHT BE FUN AS A TOPIC, AS IT PROBABLY IS MORE IM-
|
||
468 PORTANT IN THE LONG RUN THAN THE CYBERNETIC REVOLUTION. AND POTENTIALLY,
|
||
469 GENETICS MAY HAVE MORE EFFECT ON THE INTELLECTS OF INDIVIDUALS THAN FIDDL-
|
||
470 ING AROUND WITH THE SCHOOLS.
|
||
471 TAXES WILL GO ON TILL YOU COUGH UP BLOOD, IF YOU'RE A "SUCCESFUL" AMERI-
|
||
472 CAN. THIS WILL NOT CHANGE. IT'S PAINFUL ENOUGH TO PAY WITHOUT HAVING TO
|
||
473 TALK ABOUT IT TOO. WHAT "SUCCESFUL" AMERICANS FORGET IS THAT THESE THINGS
|
||
474 ARE NOT ONLY DECREED BY THE GREAT NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE LESS, AND BY
|
||
475 THOSE WHO JUST LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE TO GIVE IF THEY DECIDE TO (THE GUILTY
|
||
476 ONES), BUT ALSO, AND ESPECIALLY, THEY ARE DECREED BY THE TRULY RICH AND
|
||
477 POWERFUL WHO USUALLY PAY LITTLE OR NO TAXES BUT WHO DO CALL MOST OF THE
|
||
478 SHOTS IN THIS COUNTRY. I AGREE THAT THIS IS NOT TECHNICALLY OR DE FACTO
|
||
479 A DEMOCRACY, BY THE WAY. WE JUST HAVE MORE INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS (MINORITY
|
||
480 RIGHTS), WHICH IS SOMETHING THAT PEOPLE CONFUSE WITH BEING A DEMOCRACY.
|
||
481 ACTUALLY, AS SOMEBODY ELSE POINTED OUT HERE, MAJORITY RULE IS OFTEN
|
||
482 THEN ANTITHESIS OF THE INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS THAT WE ENJOY HERE.
|
||
483 THE PERSON WHO WANTS DOCUMENTATION FOR EVERYTHING WILL BE DELIGHTED,
|
||
484 PERHAPS, TO KNOW THAT I AM ENTITLED TO THAT OPINION BECAUSE I JUST
|
||
485 READ "RATIONAL COLLECTIVE CHOICE" IN AUG 83 SCIENTIFIC AMERICAN, WHEREIN
|
||
486
|
||
487 THE AUTHORS CLAIM THAT YOU CAN'T HAVE A VOTING SYSTEM THAT IS RATIONAL,
|
||
488 DECISIVE, AND EGALITARIAN AT THE SAME TIME.
|
||
489 THIS MAY BE THE LAST REFERENCE YOU EVER GET. THIS ARGUMENT MIGHT
|
||
490 BE WORTHWILE AS AN EXCHANGE OF IDEAS, BUT NOT AS AN EXCHANGE OF PAPERWORK.
|
||
491 AND WHILE THE DEMAND FOR REFERENCES MAY BE A SHOW-STOPPER WHERE YOU COME
|
||
492 FROM, IT PROBABLY WON'T SLOW DOWN THIS GROUP EVEN A LITTLE, AS THEY SEEM
|
||
493 TO BE SMART ENOUGH TO KNOW THAT YOU DON'T RUN DOWN TO THE LIBRARY TO
|
||
494 XEROX A COUPLE HUNDRED BOOKS EVERY TIME SOMEBODY DOUBTS YOUR WORD. SO PISS
|
||
495 OFF.
|
||
496 I HAVE USED THE SOURCE, CIS, ETC LATELY AS A CRUTCH WHEN SOMEBODY
|
||
497 REALLY DOUBTED MY WORD OR OR POWERS OF MIND (HOW DAST THEY!) BUT I
|
||
498 GET ENOUGH OF A BET DOWN FIRST TO JUSTIFY THE TIME INVOLVED. THOSE
|
||
499 WHO WISH TO SETTLE ARGUMENTS BY SITTING IN JUDGEMENT SHOULD PAY FOR THE
|
||
500 PRIVELEDGE.
|
||
501 CHUCK
|
||
502
|
||
503 P.S. I'LL ARGUE ABOUT ANYTHING. ARE THERE ANY KINDRED SPIRITS HERE? YOUR
|
||
504 CHOICE OF SIDES. TROTSKY VS. LENIN, GOD VS NUTTIN SPOOKY AT ALL,
|
||
505 ARTISTS VS COMPUTER FREAKS, LO LO PRICES, NEVER GIVE UP UNLESS BORED.
|
||
506 REPOND RIGHT HERE PLEASE. UNLIMITED QUANTITIES. DO YOU HEAR ME OUT THERE!?
|
||
507 -----------------------------------------------
|
||
508 Yes I'm still here ... been at the coast for a few days is all .
|
||
509
|
||
510 Genetic Engineering:
|
||
511
|
||
512 A Point of View.
|
||
513
|
||
514 To start I believe that GE should be given much more funding than its
|
||
515 being given now. The benefits in this line of research will be un-measurable.
|
||
516 Not only for the point brought out by Elberich earlier (super-plants), but
|
||
517 also for the aspects of our being able to control our own genetic destiny.
|
||
518 Also ... it would seem much more reasonable to me that the people
|
||
519 that form what 'watch-dog' committees
|
||
520 as are seen as necessary should be
|
||
521 of scientific backgrounds rather then
|
||
522 lay, or religious leaders that have no
|
||
523 real knowledge of what is involved in
|
||
524 these endeavors.
|
||
525
|
||
526 Hows that for a can of worms?
|
||
527
|
||
528 Paul
|
||
529 P.S.
|
||
530
|
||
531 To BAD:
|
||
532 I tend toward still-lifes and abstracts also ... have a hard time
|
||
533 with 'street' photography.
|
||
534 -------------------------------------------------
|
||
535
|
||
536 To the one who used such foul langauge:
|
||
537 First, please note that I am not the one who refers to himself as
|
||
538 the 'tax reble'. Note that I signed my entry with 'Irate Taxpayer'.
|
||
539 Now that you are aware that we are two different people (Oh god no,
|
||
540 they're spreading!) A few points to make. First, As to schooling. Yes,
|
||
541 I consider my schooling to be minimal. It would have been far worse
|
||
542 had I allowed myself to follow the path they defined for me. They
|
||
543 were so busy generating 'average students', that they didn't have time
|
||
544 for my special needs. By the way, I failed fifth grade because of that
|
||
545 minimal schooling. The teacher was more intersted in showing slides
|
||
546 of his trip to Gaume then teaching class. I have a high school education.
|
||
547 (woopee) and yes, I did learn 90% of what I know outside of school.
|
||
548 They don't teach you how to run a business in public school. Next, as
|
||
549 to what I consider fair in taxes. Perhaps I can better state it by what
|
||
550 I consider NOT to be fair. I do not consider the taking of 50% of what
|
||
551 I make in profits to be fair. By the way that is AFTER I take all the
|
||
552 deductions. I would be extremely happy to only have to pay the 15% or
|
||
553 20% that you are probably paying (if its not less). To you and the others,
|
||
554 please note that I also did not say (In fact, I stated just the opposite!
|
||
555 I suggest you reread it.) that I did not support public education. What
|
||
556 I was stating, was that I do not feel it is my duty to support your
|
||
557 causes. I have my own to support thank you, and do not need you to tell
|
||
558 me what to do with my money. Maybe you consider it wrong to not give
|
||
559 away all my money, but I can't find a reason for it to be so myself.
|
||
560 As far as getting where I got by myself, yes I did do it myself. I might
|
||
561 point out here that I started life in a old beat up trailer that was
|
||
562 parked on some relatives land. I've been there, I know where of I speak.
|
||
563 Finnaly, as for use of my money, you probally don't care that because
|
||
564 of the bite that Uncle is taking out of my profits that I am not able
|
||
565 to afford to hire another employee despite the fact that I need one.
|
||
566 You see, I could provide a much better use of that money, I could hire
|
||
567 that person and get them off of unemployment. (Anouther tax I that I
|
||
568 have to pay by the way.) Which do YOU think is a better use of that
|
||
569 money? Giving it to someone to stay on welfare, or using it to hire
|
||
570 someone that wants to work? Since I doubt that I have convinced you of
|
||
571 anything, I will not bother returning here since I would have more
|
||
572 luck in talking to a brick wall in obtaining at least an intellegent
|
||
573 and reasonably respectable conversation.
|
||
574 @@@@@@@@@ The Irate Taxpayer @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
|
||
575 @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
|
||
576 T.I.T SEEMS TO FIT !
|
||
577
|
||
578
|
||
579 WHAT BETTER ANAGRAM FOR SUCH A SAGGING THESIS !
|
||
580
|
||
581 ********========---------=========*********
|
||
582 BRAVO IRATE TAXPAYER! YOU'RE RIGHT, THOUGH, THEY'LL NEVER ANSWER YOUR
|
||
583 QUESTIONS. I THINK THAT'S BECAUSE IF THEY EVER GOT INTO A SERIOUS DISCUSSION
|
||
584 OF TAX MORALITY THEY WOULD FIND THEMSELVES ON THE SHORT END OF THE STICK.
|
||
585 THE TAX SYSTEM IS IMMORAL FOR TWO REASONS: FIRST, IT FORCES PEOPLE TO
|
||
586 PAY FOR PROGRAMS/SERVICES/PRODUCTS THEY WOULD NEVER BUY IF IT WAS VOLUNTARY.
|
||
587 SECOND, AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, IS THAT IT ACTS AS AN INCOME REDISTRIBUTOR,
|
||
588 ALLOWING A LARGE UNDERCLASS TO CONSUME AND NOT PRODUCE. IT IS QUITE UNLIKELY
|
||
589 THAT THE PRO-TAX PEOPLE WOULD BE SATISFIED WITH A TAX SYSTEM WHERE, ON THE
|
||
590 AVERAGE, A PERSON RECEIVED AS MUCH BENEFITS AS HE PAID FOR. IT WOULD STILL
|
||
591 BE IMMORAL FROM THE FIRST STANDPOINT, OF COURSE, BUT IT FAILS TO DO PRECISELY
|
||
592 WHAT THOSE PEOPLE WANT OF IT: TO TAKE MONEY AWAY FROM PEOPLE WHO EARNED IT,
|
||
593 AND GIVE IT TO PEOPLE WHO DIDN'T EARN IT.
|
||
594 AND IT ISN'T A MOOT QUESTION, ANYWAY. IT HAS NEVER BEEN ARGUED ON
|
||
595 THIS SYSTEM , AS FAR AS I CAN TELL, THAT THE ANTI-TAX PEOPLE WERE INFRINGING
|
||
596 ON THE RIGHTS OF THE PRO-TAX PEOPLE (FOR OBVIOUS REASONS), BUT IT IS VERY
|
||
597 PLAUSIBLE THAT THE PRO-TAX PEOPLE ARE INFRINGING ON THE RIGHTS OF THE
|
||
598 ANTI-TAX PEOPLE.
|
||
599 IN FACT, IT TENDS TO BE A COMMON MISTAKE OF THE PRO-TAX PEOPLE TO
|
||
600 BELIEVE THAT THE ISSUE IS GREED ALONE. IT IS AN ISSUE OF THE USE OF FORCE,
|
||
601 AND AS WAS SAID BEFORE, COERCION OF OTHER PEOPLE. RELIGION, SEXUAL PREFERENCE,
|
||
602 AND MANY OTHER ISSUES HAVE INDUCED COERCION IN THE PAST, AND THE CURRENT TAX
|
||
603 ISSUE IS JUST ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF HOW SOME PEOPLE WILL ATTEMPT TO ENSLAVE
|
||
604 OTHERS.
|
||
605 ___________LOOKING FOR A TRULY FREE SOCIETY________________________________
|
||
606
|
||
607 Ahh yes, America, land of oportunity where anyone can make it.
|
||
608 So that those that didn't can take it from them.
|
||
609
|
||
610 ......................................................................
|
||
611 Well, it looks like it's time to change the old disk again.
|
||
612 What will we see on the next one? Let's see, we've talked
|
||
613 about taxes, so maybe it will be that other sure thing death?
|
||
614 Well, what ever it will be, here goes a new disk for tyou all
|
||
615 to dirty up with your messages.
|
||
616 ****** CISTOP MIKEY STILL STAYING OUT OF THE WHOLE THING **** 15 AUG 83 *****
|
||
|