602 lines
37 KiB
Plaintext
602 lines
37 KiB
Plaintext
LIST
|
|
FILE ON
|
|
MARGIN IS 80
|
|
STATUS: ALL ALLOWED
|
|
NUMBER OF LINES: 629
|
|
1 If you are in need of help, you need but ask....
|
|
2 ************************* REMOVED: 22 JUN 83 ***********************
|
|
3 Welcome to BWMS (BackWater Message System) Mike Day System operator
|
|
4 ************************************************************
|
|
5 GENERAL DISCLAIMER: BWMS IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY INFORMATION PLACED ON
|
|
6 THIS SYSTEM.
|
|
7 BWMS was created as an electronic bill board. BWMS is a privatly owned
|
|
8 and operated system which is currently open for use by the general public.
|
|
9 No restrictions are placed on the use of the system.
|
|
10 It is intended that the system be normally used for messages and
|
|
11 advertisments by the users. As the system is privatly owned, I retain the
|
|
12 right to remove any and all messages which I may find offensive
|
|
13 to me. Additionally because of the limited size of the system, it will be
|
|
14 periodically purged of older messages. (only 629 lines of data can be saved)
|
|
15 The saved information will be cycled to drive 'B' while the information on
|
|
16 drive 'B' will be archived, and a fresh disk will be installed in drive 'A'.
|
|
17 To leave a message, type 'ENTER' and use ctrl/C or break to get out
|
|
18 of the enter mode. The message is automaticly stored.
|
|
19 If after entering the message you find you made a mistake,
|
|
20 use the replace command to replace the line.
|
|
21 To exit from the system, type 'OFF' then hang up.
|
|
22 Type 'HELP' to see other commands that are available on the system.
|
|
23 ========================================
|
|
24 =============================-----------------------=========================
|
|
25 Gibberish, Leonard, doesn't defend one's position very well: ---quoting from
|
|
26 fiction for real-life support is a curious tactic; ---overlooking that, having
|
|
27 yet to meet this Akonis, I can hardly be his valued friend; ---failing to quiz
|
|
28 the addressor as to his true intent, substituting instead several assumptions
|
|
29 of your own; ---and suggesting by your own interpretation that I am mistaken,
|
|
30 potentially fanatic, and forgetful! Is this all from the Don Rickles school
|
|
31 of Debate and Other Gutter Games?
|
|
32 You exhibit mastery in character assassination through association: put me
|
|
33 and my words beside your wandering discussion of someone's ridiculous obsession
|
|
34 splashes me with your mental spatter-gun. If we have need for further inter-
|
|
35 course, let us both observe reasonable etiquette forensically.
|
|
36 To you, Dragon Lady, I send my condolences --- you have a friend who is
|
|
37 marginally literate and admittedly hard-pressed to express himself with
|
|
38 clarity. If indeed, ladies can complement men, you've got a lot of work to
|
|
39 do for that one. And you LAUGH at sorry ideas? Just what of mine was
|
|
40 'rash accusation': reference to his belief in the prowess of having been
|
|
41 given an XY-chromosome combination, or that he generalizes his needs into
|
|
42 life-statements by which we must all abide? I applaud your voice, however.
|
|
43
|
|
44 To you directly, Akonis: I support your recognition of what is truly murky.
|
|
45 Please, I entreat you, try to define and illustrate this marvelous
|
|
46 'masculinity' and its virtues for us all. Tell me how you view 'virility',
|
|
47 while you're at it.
|
|
48 B.A.D.: Why punctuate your last idea with a question mark? You've already
|
|
49 got two of the reasons you seek. Add to these thoughtlessness, conceit,
|
|
50 puffery, illogic. NEITHER MEN NOR WOMEN ARE DRAWN TO THESE TRAITS!
|
|
51 Consider this, all of you: Your beliefs, values, choices, and prejudices
|
|
52 --and MINE-- have come from (y)our pasts. Since each of us has seen a
|
|
53 different world, each of us varies in his outlook. Refrain from
|
|
54 characterizing any individual without evidence! If you must refer to
|
|
55 a gender-based class, be at least courteous in your titles: I prefer "Ladies"
|
|
56 in that it does not defame any woman in the audience, who may not be given
|
|
57 a choice to be excluded from the class. We run the risk of over-rating some,
|
|
58 however, who haven't retained their rights to inclusion in it!
|
|
59 Now...am I still a rash, fanatic, mistaken stereotypical example?
|
|
60 =====================---- Proud Amazon ----===========================
|
|
62 .................
|
|
63 To: Proud Amazon Fm: A Male
|
|
64 Alas, one never knows the words to use for each individual has different
|
|
65 meanings to those words. Though I do consider the term 'Lady' to the
|
|
66 highest honor. There have been times that when I have used it when
|
|
67 anger has issued forth from some woman I seem to have insulted by its
|
|
68 use. What's a male to do? No matter what you try you are always in
|
|
69 trouble with someone in the crowd. Because of this I no longer try to
|
|
70 please everyone around. Instead I use my terms and my meanings. If you
|
|
71 cannot see what I am saying then I am sorry for your inability to see
|
|
72 things through anothers eyes, but I will not degrad my self to be the
|
|
73 low worm that you seem to see me as.
|
|
74 ....................................
|
|
75 Milady of dragons,
|
|
76 I see you prepare to leave this Inn once more. Alas, must
|
|
77 it always be so? I hate to see you leave, for as always
|
|
78 your presence adds warmth and grace to this humble
|
|
79 retreat. Though at times your voice has risen to rival
|
|
80 the best, it is all to often that its quiet warmth has
|
|
81 brought a hush to the Inn as all strain to listen to the
|
|
82 words issued forth. At times I can almost see the
|
|
83 *sparkle* in your eyes as I listen to what you have said.
|
|
84
|
|
85 ********************** 7:00 PM ***************************
|
|
86 As the Innkeeper spies the gentle lady prepare to leave he
|
|
87 half raises his arm to bid her to pause. It is seldom that
|
|
88 such as she enters this Inn and the Innkeeper would ask of
|
|
89 her return. As he winds his way thru the crowd to the door
|
|
90 he is in hope to catch sight of her befor she is gone. All
|
|
91 that he sees though as he breaks thru the smoke is an open
|
|
92 door and the coming darkness without. Yet something still
|
|
93 lingers, a presence or else. A wafting breeze brings past
|
|
94 a fragrence of a haunting scent, a rememberance that shall
|
|
95 always be held. As he looks down to the floor he spies a
|
|
96 leaf blown in thru the door. He bends to pick it up and to
|
|
97 throw it back, but pauses in the remeberance of the lady,
|
|
98 and keeps it instead. With that thought does he look out
|
|
99 the door to the star filled night, and thus does he know
|
|
100 that someday the lady will indeed return. Until then he
|
|
101 retains the leaf for all the kind memories that it brings.
|
|
102
|
|
103 *** CISTOP MIKEY of the Backwater Inn *** 11 June 1983 ***
|
|
104
|
|
105 ___________________________________________________________________________
|
|
106 A few Observations:
|
|
107 1)The Amazons were noted for cutting off one breast (thus denying part of
|
|
108 their sexuality) because it interfered with there archery.
|
|
109 1a) They were also noted for their ENSLAVEMENT of their men.
|
|
110 2)Regardless of what anyone may think, the human race is very pragmatic -
|
|
111 They will put the reins of power into the hands of the group most suited
|
|
112 to handle them. Take a look at history and see whether men or women have
|
|
113 contributed the most to the advancemant of the race (and don't cop-out
|
|
114 with the bullshit about women being oppressed).
|
|
115 3)Also take a look at history and see the role women have played in
|
|
116 pushing men into wars, striving, and general competitiveness! -
|
|
117 the world would be a very different place if the women would leave
|
|
118 the men to their own devices and not push them to obtain more and more
|
|
119 in an attempt to satisfy their lazy, egocentric women.
|
|
120 ____________________Max Grody_________________________________________
|
|
121 =================
|
|
122 The reason I don't call any female 'a lady' is that by the time I've learned
|
|
123 enough about her to know if she's 'a lady,' she isn't a lady anymore...
|
|
124 =================
|
|
125 WELL, AT LEAST I NOW KNOW WHY THERE ARE NO FEMALES HERE NOW.
|
|
126 THE INTENSE DISLIKE DISPLAYED HERE IS TRULY AMAZING AND SAD.
|
|
127 THE DARKNESS CLOSES IN SO QUICKLY WHEN THE WARMTH OF THE SUNSHINE
|
|
128 HAS GONE. ONE WONDERS HOW PEOPLE CAN BE SO UNHAPPY.
|
|
129 ****** A DISENCHANTED CISTOP MIKEY **** 11:47PM 11 JUN 83 *******
|
|
130 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
|
|
131 Amazon,
|
|
132 I find it truly amazing that you have the gall to accuse another of
|
|
133 doing badly in the art of debate, (especially since he did adequate),
|
|
134 when you yourself apparently do not no how at all! So for, you hath
|
|
135 slung mud, argued, and acted totally irrational. Hardly debating.
|
|
136 As for my attitudes on masculinity, perhaps you should take a
|
|
137 psychology course at P.C.C. It's affordable. I reccomend 'Human Sexuality'
|
|
138 myself.
|
|
139 If you are born as being the one who does NOT bear the children of the
|
|
140 species, then you are male. Under that definition I am male.
|
|
141 When you are male, everything you do, say, feel, etc. is MASCULINE. At
|
|
142 least as far as the definition of the word goes. By society's rules
|
|
143 however, it's different. I have been raised in a totally female
|
|
144 environment all my life, and thus have picked up MANY female traits.
|
|
145 Therefore, by society's deem, I am feminine. That is a torment I have
|
|
146 suffered throughout my grade school years, until I found people who
|
|
147 aren't stupid enough to believe that I am somehow undesirable.
|
|
148 As far as masculinity goes, I do not defend it. Masculinity is a thing
|
|
149 males are, and they can't help it. I can no more defend masculinity as I
|
|
150 could purple.
|
|
151 By virility, I assume you mean machoism. I think that is a stupid
|
|
152 concept in itself. 'Macho' is derived from a spanish word that means
|
|
153 'sterile bull'. I would hardly want to be associated with that, and I
|
|
154 cannot concieve of how any sane person WOULD want to be.
|
|
155 As for you, I would guess that you have been badly hurt by some cruel
|
|
156 males. Your downgrading the male sex (even your very name refers to a
|
|
157 suppresive group of people) is sheer stupidity, and is doing females
|
|
158 great harm, in that it destroys what the 'sexual revolution' was supposed
|
|
159 to build -- equality.
|
|
160 One of the most logical and best arguments I've heard from
|
|
161 liberationists is that male suppression only shows their fear, and
|
|
162 stupidity. Should that work BOTH ways? Or are you stupid enough to
|
|
163 believe that females are somehow exempt from being stupid!
|
|
164 As far as my being illiterate, I'm surprised you could tell, after all,
|
|
165 reading is an art that few people of your caliber master.
|
|
166 Akonis
|
|
167 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
|
|
168 Akonis, wasn't that last paragraph a bit uncalled for?
|
|
169
|
|
170
|
|
171 Amazon: I quoted from fiction as (good) fiction is a very good
|
|
172 source for usages & cultural background details. As for the
|
|
173 scattergun you mentioned- I was saying that IF you continued to
|
|
174 jump to certain types of conclusions based on certain words
|
|
175 (exclusive of context I might add!), you would lead people to
|
|
176 class you with the fanatics I described. Your responses so far
|
|
177 show that you aren't THAT fanatic, but they still haven't put
|
|
178 you anywhere NEAR a "happy medium". A point I should have tried
|
|
179 to make was that if you do not wish certain forms of address
|
|
180 used then you should POLITELY tell the person(s) involved. Your
|
|
181 response (regarding "dearest" etc) was of a type more appropriate
|
|
182 to a DIRECT insult! Condescension and the like, ARE insulting
|
|
183 but they are indirect insults.
|
|
184 For what it is worth, I have checked with several people
|
|
185 as to whether or not THEY would consider that form of address
|
|
186 insulting. Irregardless of whether it was being applied to a
|
|
187 man or a woman, ALL the men said no & ALL the women said yes!
|
|
188 Being a man, I don't understand why it would be insulting
|
|
189 (except in certain contexts). But I could NOT get a friend (female)
|
|
190 to understand why it WOULDN'T! I think we'll just have to chalk
|
|
191 it up to cultural conditioning & wait for the next generation
|
|
192 to wonder what all the fuss was about.
|
|
193 ______________________Leonard_________________________________
|
|
194 .......
|
|
195 1234567
|
|
196 1line 1
|
|
197 2line 2
|
|
198 1234567
|
|
199 .......
|
|
200 I think it works
|
|
201 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
|
|
202 To Max Grody, and your "observations:
|
|
203 1. not true
|
|
204 2. same
|
|
205 3. Maybe, but usually power is taken, by the stronger not the better
|
|
206 4 I doubt you have read history, and certainly not studied it
|
|
207
|
|
208 The Amazons fought next to there men; which so astonished the Spaniards
|
|
209 they couldn't cope with the idea. Slander is more exciting than the real
|
|
210 thing, so it is more widely told, but the truth is known by those who
|
|
211 read nonfiction. "Amazon" is certtainly not a slanderous name, nor one
|
|
212 to be ashamed of. Why must you put down your equals? Fear?
|
|
213
|
|
214 However, as different people have different ideas as to correct address,
|
|
215 I hedged my bets. If "lady" is prefered, so be it.
|
|
216 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++B.A.D.++0653 am June 12++++++++++
|
|
217 I find Girls to be frequently smarter than boys are. They are
|
|
218 more gentle and less agressive than men are.
|
|
219
|
|
220 Tron
|
|
221 ----------
|
|
228 If you think rationally about all of this war between the sexes garbage,
|
|
229 there is only one conclusion to be reached. There are only two times that
|
|
230 one's sex makes any difference at all: Reproduction (or at least going
|
|
231 through the motions) and Physical strength (and how often does it really
|
|
232 matter today). All the rest is bovine excrement!
|
|
233 {}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{} Analog Alan {}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}
|
|
234 Lemme see. TLB must be tiny little brains. I hope the two purported non-
|
|
235 males on here didn't take my 'macho conspiracy' comments seriously. I was
|
|
236 merely expressing incredulity at the articles that I had seen in the press.
|
|
237 Actually having purported non-males on BWMS has an unpleasant side-effect.
|
|
238 The line sure is a great deal more often busy than when machismo ruled!
|
|
239 {}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}
|
|
240 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
|
|
241 Yes, Tron, your obserbvations are very much correct. In the great
|
|
242 jumble of life, human females were given the intellect, and human males
|
|
243 were given the muscle. Nowadays, however, men and women are more equal
|
|
244 mentally AND physically.
|
|
245 Leanard, you're right. My last paragraph was uncalled for. I wrote
|
|
246 it in the heat of my anger. I'm sorry.
|
|
247 Akonis
|
|
248 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
|
|
249 ***********SHIBUMI*********
|
|
250 Not enough emphasis has been put into the basic
|
|
251 physiological differences between male and female.
|
|
252 The female by genetics has a whole different metabolism
|
|
253 and hormonal differences than the male, this is not
|
|
254 to say whether that is bad or good. Just a medical
|
|
255 FACT that does make a differnce in the way men and women
|
|
256 percieve things in the world around them. The male
|
|
257 has oodles of testostrone flowing in his system telling
|
|
258 him to be macho, be cool, be aggressive. It is a rare
|
|
259 individual who can circumvent this natural programming
|
|
260 and not be to macho.
|
|
261 Ask any doctor on the use of this hormone in therapy
|
|
262 and he will tell you of the phsychological side effects.
|
|
263 On the other hand the female hormones estrogen and
|
|
264 progestrone make one moody and unstable emotionally.
|
|
265 Again, that is neither here nor there, Just medical fact.
|
|
266 Both you must admit are undesirable effects. So, what is
|
|
267 one to do? There is no escape? Yes there is. It just
|
|
268 takes time for society to catch up to whats going on.
|
|
269 earlier there was a comment about the next generation
|
|
270 laughing at our seemingly non existent problems. How
|
|
271 true, today we already laugh at Archie Bunker when
|
|
272 just a few years ago his attitude was the norm.
|
|
273 The only thing to do is be aware of the problem and
|
|
274 be patient. One cannot destroy the fabric of an era
|
|
275 in one fell swoop (i.e. the ERA) It won't work.
|
|
276 What is the big deal anyway. We are men and women, two
|
|
277 halves of a whole. No one is better than the other. We
|
|
278 each have our good points and bad. If you don't like
|
|
279 chauvinists or feminists, don't hang out with them.
|
|
280 Easy solution. Relax and enjoy what you are male or female.
|
|
286 ..................................................
|
|
287 I do believe the differences are more learned than geneticly
|
|
288 foced through hormones. As to the female hormones causing
|
|
289 "moody and unstable", experience says otherwise. For example,
|
|
290 your tom cat has begun to spray and howl at the moon, as well
|
|
291 as get in fights, so you have him spayed. It's too late, though,
|
|
292 he has already learned to like to tomcat about, so he continues
|
|
293 to do so. But your vet has a cure called Depo Provira, a synthetic
|
|
294 female hormone (it's used on human women as a birth control pill)
|
|
295 that makes him think he is a pussy cat. He gets very friendly and
|
|
296 contented, stops gadding about, spraying, etc. He will probably
|
|
297 forget all about "macho", even when the DP wears off. The ladies
|
|
298 are moody and unstable not because of the female hormones, but
|
|
299 because their monthly cycles between high and low hormone levels.
|
|
300 Before you men laugh too hard, note that we also have cycles, they
|
|
301 just aren't a neat month apart. There is a much wider range of normal
|
|
302 behavior than the difference between the sexes, though, so the
|
|
303 range of normal behavior overlaps a lot.
|
|
304 There are diferences, though, and viva la difference! Real
|
|
305 differences such as size, strength exist on the average, but I have
|
|
306 seen female manual laborers who don't consider themselves ladies,
|
|
307 and are a lot larger and stronger than I. Are you 'average' or
|
|
308 would you rather be yourself? There are stronger men and women
|
|
309 than you, as well as weaker, but I an sure there is something unique
|
|
310 about each of us. The diferences are not all bad: if two are unlike,
|
|
311 one is better than the other. Sometimes. Maybe just diferent.
|
|
312 Statiscal studies of student's grades on various tests implies that
|
|
313 ladies are more artistic, more 'holistic', better at relating to
|
|
314 people; men are better at mathematics and abstract reasoning. ON
|
|
315 THE AVERAGE. These statistical diferences are much smaller than the
|
|
316 normal range for either. The average IQ of both are identical.
|
|
317 Except for the physical sex traits (e.g penis vs vagina and breasts)
|
|
318 there is no known distinguishing feature. Still the ladies live
|
|
319 (on the average) 5 years longer than men.
|
|
320 The arguement about which is better is at best menaingless, though;
|
|
321 without both men and women we couldn't exist: it takes one of each
|
|
322 to make babies.
|
|
323 enough~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~B.A.D.
|
|
324 *'*'*'*'*'*'*'*'*'*'*'*'*'*'*'*'*'*'*'*'*'*'*'*'*'*'*'*'*'*'*'*'*'*'*'*
|
|
325 Touche' men! (Except Max Grody) I am but a brief visitor to the BWMS
|
|
326 and am surprised (pleasantly), intrigued, and impressed by the reasoning
|
|
327 and attitudes you have expressed in this male/female discussion. I
|
|
328 have worked with too many men and women whose chauvinistic and
|
|
329 feministic attitudes have caused divisions and mutual suspicion to
|
|
330 the point of seriously hindering good working relationships and friend-
|
|
331 ships. Thank you for your reasonableness and fairness.
|
|
332 To the Dragon Lady: Thanks for defending the men. I was pleased to see
|
|
333 a woman's viewpoint in such stark contrast to the "liberated" views of
|
|
334 Amazon which unfortunately reinforce the stereotype of modern women.
|
|
335
|
|
336 To Leonard: The reason I would be offended by the term "dearest" used to
|
|
337 address me at work is that at my first job the manager called me that with
|
|
338 intentions obviously not limited to a respectful friendship. I would guess
|
|
339 that many women associate this word with sexual harassment, as I do, based
|
|
340 on experience. However, on a billboard such as this where one cannot show
|
|
341 respect, etc. through actions, words must suffice, and I would not find
|
|
342 "dearest" threatening or insulting.
|
|
343
|
|
344 To all as a closing thought (or two):
|
|
345
|
|
346 "We must learn to love each other, not despite our differences, but
|
|
347 because of them."
|
|
348
|
|
349 "Every living thing has its own gifts."
|
|
350
|
|
351 *'*'*'*'*'*'*'*'*'*'*'*'*'*'*'*'*'*'*'* Lady Altair *'*'*'*'*'*'*'*'*'*'*
|
|
352 THIS DISCUSSION TO DATE HAS HAD A MOST DECIDED HUMANISTIC ASPECT EXPRESSED BY
|
|
353 ALL PARTIES. i WOULD LIKE TO ENLARGE THE VIEWPOINT BEYOND
|
|
354 THAT OF MERE MEN. GRANTED IT IS MOST REASONABLE TO HAVE OUR OWN SELF CENTERED
|
|
355 VIEWPOINTS IN THAT WE ARE SELF-CENTERED (ASK ANY MATE WHO
|
|
356 COMPETES WITH A COMPUTER. IN REALITY THERE IS FAR MORE MEANING TO LIFE THAN THAT
|
|
357 WHICH WE CAN READILY SEE. HAVING SEARCHED INTO DEEPER THINGS I AM NOW AWARE THAT
|
|
358 THE WORLD IS MORE THAN JUST FLESH AND BLOOD. THERE IS ACTUALLY MEANING TO THIS
|
|
359 APPARENT MADNESS. UNFORTUNATELY AFTER ONE BECOMES AWARE HE IS ALSO ACCOUNTABLE
|
|
360 TO MUCH HIGHER AUTHORITIES. ALAS EVEN WHEN "UNENLIGHTENED"
|
|
361 AND STILL LIVING IN THE DARK HE IS "UNKNOWINGLY" ACCOUNTABLE. i SAY UNKNOWINGLY
|
|
362 BECAUSE MEN THROUGH THE AGES HAVE TESTIFIED OF AN EMPTYNESS WITHIN THEM SEEKING
|
|
363 TO BE FULFILLED. PASCAL SAID IT MOST CLEARLY WHEN HE SAID THERE IS A "GOD-SHAPED
|
|
364 VACCUUM" IN EVERY MAN. FROM MY EXPERIENCE I'M SURE THAT INCLUDED WOMAN. THE
|
|
365 OLDEST RECORDS CLEARLY AND SIMPLY TELL US THAT GOD MADE US.
|
|
366 FIRST MAN THEN WOMAN BECAUSE MANWAS NOT COMPLETE. BUT BECAUSE OF MANS' SELF-
|
|
367 CENTEREDNESS, REBELLION, AND EASE OF BEENING DECEIVED. .. WE
|
|
368 NOW LIVE IN A FALLEN STATE WHERE WE ARE UNABLE TO KNOW AND UNDERSTAND FULLY.
|
|
369 THERE ALSO EXIST THOSE WHO WOULD BLIND US TO THE TRUTH. AND TRY TO TURN TRUTH
|
|
370 INTO A LIE OR FOOLISHNESS. UPON CLOSE EXAMINATION OF THE PRESENT AND THE PAST WE
|
|
371 FIND THAT WE ARE VICTIMS OF A MASTER PLOT TO DESTROY US FOR ALL ETERNITY AND TO
|
|
372 KEEP US IN DARKNESS...THEOPHILUS
|
|
373 =======================------------------------==========================
|
|
374 If I respond to all your allegations and contentions, will you promise to
|
|
375 make hardcopy of this ENTIRE discussion, from the original comments by
|
|
376 Akonis, Alan, and myself on DB, and to STUDY them, so that you are able to
|
|
377 separate the genuine from the deceptive and boisterous, to weed out
|
|
378 the loaded words that I and others have used, and to attempt to bring from
|
|
379 it some new or modified BEHAVIOR within yourself that you honestly feel
|
|
380 will improve the human condition in your immediate life? That would be
|
|
381 worth the effort for all of us! Until later, if ever, I leave you with
|
|
382 just: if SYTs are sweet young things (just what is the source of that
|
|
383 label, anyhow?), then TLBs are tough little boys (to use a phrase from
|
|
384 Disk B).
|
|
385 ===================----- Proud Amazon ---------=====================
|
|
405 _________________________________________________________________
|
|
409
|
|
410 To B.A.D.: You should study your history some more - The Amazons
|
|
411 were part of GREEK History/Mythology and had nothing to do with
|
|
412 south America and the Spaniards.
|
|
413
|
|
414 To B.A.D.: There are a lot more physical differences between Men and
|
|
415 Women - ask any Athropologist (seeing as how they can determine
|
|
416 the sex of a person FROM AN INCOMPLETE SKELETON!!!
|
|
417
|
|
418 To any who care: I am definitly Male and I agree that using the
|
|
419 term "Dearest" with a strange female is definitly Derogatory, and/or
|
|
420 Condecending. The term "dear" when used in most contexts (but not all)
|
|
421 is also condecending and/or patronizing.
|
|
422 The literary example cited (Sherlock Holmes) definatly fits into
|
|
423 this catagory - Holmes is implying that Watson is not smart enough
|
|
424 to figure it out, so he (holmes) will explain in "elementary" terms.
|
|
425 ___________Max Grody_________________________________________
|
|
426 Max,
|
|
427 I didn't make myself clear enough. My father does this because
|
|
428 he is an alchoholic and can't control his reactions. But, he
|
|
429 is drunk half the time. I just have to cope with this the hard
|
|
430 way. He is a complete angel when he doesn't drink, but, then
|
|
431 that is not often at all. I just forgot to say thhe above.
|
|
432
|
|
433
|
|
434 Tron
|
|
435 ----------
|
|
436
|
|
437 Usage of the term 'Dearest':
|
|
438 By the very nature of the word, it indicates one who is
|
|
439 closest to your heart. Since this is seldom the case, the usage of
|
|
440 the word dearest would by that very nature reek of sarcasm. This
|
|
441 would be especially true with one who is sensitive to the emotional
|
|
442 aspects of the langauge as is the case with most women. As such
|
|
443 they would be most likely to be offended by its usage. Since it is
|
|
444 not normally used with referance to a man, this offense is not
|
|
445 normally noticed by them. You generally have to be on the receiving
|
|
446 end of that sort of thing to really have the impact of its meaning
|
|
447 brought home.
|
|
448 **** Just a random thought by CISTOP MIKEY *** 13 Jun 83 *** 11:00PM ****
|
|
449 Mikey+++CANT YOU JUST SAY "WITH ONE WHO IS SENSITVE" ECT. AND LEAVE OFF THE
|
|
450 WOMEN PART? I WILL AGRREE WITH THE AMAZON==YOU MIGHT NOT EVEN REALIZE THAT
|
|
451 YOU ARE GENERALIZNIG ABOUT WOMEN AGAIN. MAYBE THATS WHAT THE "FANATICS"
|
|
452 ARE ABJECTING TO,HUH? NO OFFENCE MAN. I JUST SEE HER POINT.
|
|
453 **********************************************************************
|
|
454
|
|
455 Certainly I am generalizing. If you will reread what I said, you
|
|
456 will find I specifically stated that it was a generalization.
|
|
457 This does not mean that men are not sensitive to the emotional aspects
|
|
458 of the language, nor does it mean that all women are as sensitive to it.
|
|
459 I am only bringing forth an observation on my part, that being that
|
|
460 most of the women I know are far more sensitive (meaning able to see,
|
|
461 not taking umbrage to.) the emotional aspects of what is said then most
|
|
462 men I know. I don't see how this is in any way degrading or otherwise
|
|
463 defamitory of women, it is simply a different way of dealing with the
|
|
464 understanding of what is said.
|
|
465 Indeed, if anything I would consider it an advantage compared to the
|
|
466 typical straight forward literal translation that most men I know perform.
|
|
467 The emotional aspects of what is said as can be determined by the tone
|
|
468 and timber (among other things) of what is said can often carry far
|
|
469 more information then the words themselves. As an experiment, ask the
|
|
470 next person you see how they are feeling. Chances are very good that
|
|
471 the answer they give and the tone it is given in won't match. Sometimes
|
|
472 they do, but this provides even more emphisis to the emotion, not detracting.
|
|
473 Why should women be able to see this more then men? Simple, they have
|
|
474 had far more practic at it then men. It has nothing to do with the
|
|
475 physical aspect of being a woman, a man can learn this just as easily,
|
|
476 and in fact many have. Remember, that I was only speaking in the most
|
|
477 general terms as to a possible answer to why women seem to find the
|
|
478 term 'dearest' objectionable, and men don't as per the previous
|
|
479 discussion. (How's that for waffling?)
|
|
480 ****** CISTOP MIKEY AGAIN ***************************************
|
|
481 THEN WHY DO WOMEN IN GENERAL HAVE MOST PROACTICE WITH EMOTIONAL THINGS?
|
|
482 AND SHOULD THAT CHANGE? WHAT ABOUT MODERN AMERICAN NEGROS--IS THERE
|
|
483 A EMOTIONAL SEX AND A LITERAL SEX?
|
|
484 @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
|
|
485 BYE
|
|
486 ----------
|
|
487 Sure! I call a girl I follow around (no relationship going on)
|
|
488 "DEARIE" just for kicks. She doesn't mind and I don't mind. That's
|
|
489 a term just about everyone uses out in Corbett. I call even some
|
|
490 of my friends that are boys "DEARIE" which is kind of a way to
|
|
491 say "SMARTIE". "DEARIE" to the boys is different than "DEARIE"
|
|
492 to the girls.
|
|
493
|
|
494 Tron
|
|
495 ----------
|
|
496 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
|
|
497 As to the usage of the forms of 'dear' and usage of 'lady' (that was
|
|
498 mentioned a while back), it seems to me that they are the 'reserved
|
|
499 words' of life.
|
|
500 Other than the standard practice of addressing letters with 'Dear', I
|
|
501 will not call anyone that unless (s)he IS dear to me. If I were to do
|
|
502 that, I would be patronizing.
|
|
503 However, if someone calls ME that, I do not view it as patronizing
|
|
504 unless, knowing by personality or tone of voice, they intended it that
|
|
505 way. Needless to say, signals often get crossed and cause problems.
|
|
506 Similar to the typical 'Three's Company' stunt of having someone overhear
|
|
507 a partial conversation.
|
|
508 I will REFUSE to call a woman 'lady' unless I view her as such. To
|
|
509 me, that is not a word to throw around lightly.
|
|
510 An interesting case of what to call people, an old (female) friend of
|
|
511 mine used to constantly call me 'meat'. Which was fine with me BUT ONLY
|
|
512 FROM HER. If anyone else called me that, there'd be hell to pay.
|
|
513 Actually, males and females, from a physiological point of view, are
|
|
514 very similar. Even body processes. Males go through periods similar to
|
|
515 females, but without any discharge. Also, the male 'periods' are much
|
|
516 longer and less regular. But they affect men the same way periods affect
|
|
517 women!
|
|
518 The only REAL difference between men and women is in brain
|
|
519 organization. They are totally different there.
|
|
520 Akonis
|
|
521 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
|
|
522 Max, if you read HISTORY, not mythology, you will be hard pressed to find
|
|
523 Amazons in Greek history. The mythology was very real to them, tho, even
|
|
524 if it was just myth. They regarded the amazons in their myths not with
|
|
525 loathing, but with fear. In ancient Greece, women were not held quite as
|
|
526 equal as we pretend to, but they were real citizens.
|
|
527 The differences between male and female I refered to include hard parts
|
|
528 as well as soft, and physical diferences do exist. Mental diferences are
|
|
529 another thing. None have been found that are definitive. (i.e. none can
|
|
530 be found that would allow by themselves to identify a specimen as M or F.
|
|
531 Our use of the word lady comes from Medieval times, when it implied a
|
|
532 women of the aristocracy, it was a title. Since royalty and that kind
|
|
533 of titles do not exist anymore, it has come to mean about the same as
|
|
534 woman (in denotation) but perhaps a little more genteel in connotation.
|
|
535 (Of course there are the "street ladies").
|
|
536 What we mean may be what we say, but what is heard is not the same, but
|
|
537 is rather how the hearer interprets the sounds produced. This is to say
|
|
538 that each person has a diferent meaning, depending on his/her background.
|
|
539 Since we often use formal phrases to imply honor, and informal or
|
|
540 intimate phrases toward subordinates, a word like "dear" to someone
|
|
541 other than a true intimate would often imply an insult; but it all
|
|
542 depends. Some regions of the world (and these can be small or even close)
|
|
543 use the same word to mean slightly different things.
|
|
544 If you want to go farther back into the history of "lady", my dictionary
|
|
545 says the word meant 'kneader'(of bread), whic I suppose was a ladylike
|
|
546 job in those days.
|
|
547 *******************************************B.A.D.*****15 JUN 83**0630 am****
|
|
548 WHO SAYS THE OLDEST WRITING WAS RELIGIOUS? TAINT SO, THE OLDEST WE KNOW
|
|
549 IS THE SAME AS MOST NEW: INVENTORIES AND SUCH SIMPLE PAPER WORK, ALL
|
|
550 BE IT ON CLAY. THE NEXT WAS GRAPHITI, THEN COMES SUCH PHILOSOPHY AS THE
|
|
551 STATEMENT THAT SOCIETY IS GOING DOWNHILL: THE CHILDREN DON'T OBEY THEIR
|
|
552 PARENT, ETC. DOWNHILL FOR THE LAST 4000 YEARS? WE MUST BE REAL BAD.
|
|
553 .........................
|
|
554 As for emotional sex vs literal sex, I feel that most (if not
|
|
555 ALL) of that is a product of conditioning. I can testify from
|
|
556 experience as I am a male raised by a female with no real male
|
|
557 role-model in sight! One thing that comes to mind as to how
|
|
558 important role models are is a memory from when I was about 4
|
|
559 I remember noticing that Mommy crossed her legs, so over the
|
|
560 next several weeks I DELIBRATELY acquired the habit. I mention
|
|
561 this as an example of the concious & unconcious choices children
|
|
562 make. I also acquired (unintentionally) other "female" habits
|
|
563 & responses. I still tend to cry in "inappropriate" situations
|
|
564 (which has caused MUCH trouble in the past). I am a human being
|
|
565 why do MY emotional outlets & physical mannerism have to match
|
|
566 YOUR standards?
|
|
567 Things are changing, though. I don't think kids are being
|
|
568 QUITE as condtioned into the stereotypical roles (or else the
|
|
569 roles are closer together now). We are making some progress,
|
|
570 let's hope we get there eventually (the sooner, the better!)
|
|
571 A final note: I understand that physically there are
|
|
572 grounds for considering WOMEN to be "superior" to men. You
|
|
573 don't think so, fellas? OK, how well could you stand a strain
|
|
574 equivalent to childbirth (as an example). Women who couldn't
|
|
575 died, removing THEIR genes from the pool. But it really doesn't
|
|
576 matter, I just thought we might need some counter-propaganda!
|
|
577 ___________________________Leonard_____________________________
|
|
578 "CHICK" is considered a derogatory term. It also can be used in
|
|
579 a NON-derogatory fashion (trust me). Can anyone suggest an
|
|
580 EQUALLY SHORT & CONVENIENT substitute?? (I'm tired of getting
|
|
581 jumped on by "chicks" I know!)
|
|
582 ______________________________________________________________
|
|
583 To B.A.D.:
|
|
584 Many considered the story of Helen of Troy and the Trojan horse
|
|
585 to be Mythology, not too long ago an archaeologist studied those
|
|
586 "Myths" and then went out and excavated a city where Troy was said
|
|
587 to be - It seems there is no firm line between Myth and History!
|
|
588 _________________Max Grody___________________________________
|
|
589 P.S.: The usage of certain terms (such as "lady") tells much
|
|
590 more about the speaker than about the person being spoken of (sometimes).
|
|
591 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
|
|
592 I agree very much that 'male' and 'female' behavior is learned for the
|
|
593 most part. I too, was raised in an all female household with no male
|
|
594 role model, and I too cross my legs (a habit I am just now breaking). I
|
|
595 also cry in public and private and I don't feel bad about doing so. It's
|
|
596 too bad more people out there can't. It does wonders.
|
|
597 Females ARE supirior in many respects to men (Don't get me wrong: men
|
|
598 have things over women too). Women handle stress and pain MUCH better
|
|
599 then men do. I suspect that this is very much tied to the concept that
|
|
600 men can't hurt -- they keep it held in. The very thing that causes many
|
|
601 people to think women are weak (their crying, screaming, and the like),
|
|
602 is what gives them the ability to handle such better than men!
|
|
603 Women do better in highly tense situations. Contrary to popular
|
|
604 belief, on the average women will not faint while under stress. They WILL
|
|
605 if they don't need to be doing something else, and after the event, but
|
|
606 that's to thier benefit.!
|
|
607 Akonis
|
|
608 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
|
|
609 Max, yes Troy existed. But the horse? Well, maybe, but probably not the
|
|
610 thing shown in the movie about Helen of Troy. Most myths were originally
|
|
611 some exageration of truth, and then went on from there. The reason we
|
|
612 doubt most of them is simple: they don't hold water. You can believe them
|
|
613 all you want, but if so don't be too surprised when your own validity is
|
|
614 held in poor respect by your listeners. For instance the Odessey and
|
|
615 Illiad are often beieved to represent a condensed version (much enhanced)
|
|
616 of the oral history of the earlier voyages by many early Greeks, as
|
|
617 if all were one long trip. After a few generations a mean one eyed man
|
|
618 who led a group of nasties became cyclops, etc. When an assortment of
|
|
619 original truths about many are assigned to one (originally real) person,
|
|
620 the final result isn't truth anymore.
|
|
621 A known example of oral myths originating from a real, historical event
|
|
622 was the eruption of a large volcano in Indonesia about 200 years ago.
|
|
623 The results were exagerated, and made much nearer the present. Other
|
|
624 much later events tended to be merged into the story, especially if they
|
|
625 were about catastropy. What remains is more a clue to the event than
|
|
626 a factual record. Of course it astounded many anthropologist that
|
|
627 "primative" people remembered anything that long. (It seems they are't
|
|
628 Christians or Jews, though, as here again is an oral tradition spanning
|
|
629 several thousand years).TIME TO BURN OUT ANOTHER DISK, MIKE......B.A.D........
|
|
|