626 lines
35 KiB
Plaintext
626 lines
35 KiB
Plaintext
NUMBER OF LINES: 629
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1 If you are in need of help, you need but ask.
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2 Welcome to BWMS (BackWater Message System) Mike Day System operator
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3 ************************* REMOVED: 23 NOV 82 ****************************
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4 GENERAL DISCLAIMER: BWMS IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY INFORMATION PLACED ON
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5 THIS SYSTEM.
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6 BWMS WAS CREATED AS AN ELECTRONIC BILLBOARD. BWMS IS A PRIVATELY OWNED
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7 and operated system which is currently open for use by the general public.
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8 NO RESTRICTIONS ARE PLACED ON THE USE OF THE SYSTEM.
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9 It is intended that the system be normally used for messages and
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10 ADVERTISEMENTS BY THE USERS. AS THE SYSTEM IS PRIVATELY OWNED, I RETAIN THE
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11 right to remove any and all messages from the system which are offensive
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12 to me. Additionally because of the limited size of the system, it will be
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13 periodically purged of older messages. (only 629 lines of data can be saved)
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14 To leave a message, type 'ENTER' and use ctrl/C or break to get out
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15 OF THE ENTER MODE. THE MESSAGE IS AUTOMATICALLY STORED.
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16 If after entering the message you find you made a mistake,
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17 use the replace command to replace the line.
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18 To exit from the system, type 'OFF' then hang up.
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19 ********************************************************************
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20 Welcome yee merry travelers to the Backwater Inn. I hope you enjoy your
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21 STAY HERE AND FIND IT PLEASANT. IF YOU NEED HELP, OR ARE LOST, SIMPLY
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22 ASK ANY OF OUR FINE SERVANTS, AND THEY WILL BE MORE THAN HAPPY TO
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23 OBLIGE. AGAIN I WISH YOU A HAPPY AND PLEASANT STAY, BE SURE TO TELL
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24 your friends of our fine hospitality, as we aim to please one and all.
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25 ****** CISTOP MIKEY ****** 23 OCTOBER 1982 ***************************
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26 TO: d and all else who are frightened by the loss of the words that were
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27 here. Fear not! they are not gone, only moved to drive 'b' if you are
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28 unaccoustomed to finding drive b, simply type 'DB' followed by a carrage
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29 return after the '>' prompt is sent.
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30 ****************** CIST OP MIKEY 5 NOV 82 11:53 PM ******************
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31 *************************************************************
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32 34SYH>............transmission begins again we taunt &7
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33 you earthlings 0kk will you not beckon to our call >>. seek
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34 refuge nbefore it is too late @po44 we have been monitoring
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35 your air waves it seems as though you do not 239858 compre
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36 hend the meaning of disaster danger is eminent prepare to
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37 die or escape @p3020f %#"%jf translation difficulty 23500
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38
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39 153
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40 gbfh3heryeej4y45yhnbaaaY$ jkjjkgjjj jkroise28234 stand by................
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41 ATTACK............66555GFF2436RGBVEA MORE THOUGHTS LATER
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42 .....................COMMANDER DESTROY ALL 9018dG wet325v&7#$'%#GB;D
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43 Hj%$#&y3547Y6NLKMV902U4YY$%u#y$92Q6,BZTE END translatiuon:32;195-08
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44 blkp53cdkgo9040, 1534#%'&tg,w0:gfv24&$(w0kgv
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45 Hello dl: I hope one of these messages get saved, I'm not sure i know what i'm doing.
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46 tk
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47 Mike, sorry about messing things up here.
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48 TDK
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49
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50 THE PREVIOUS MESSAGE WAS LEFT BY MISTAKE.
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51 OBVIOUSLY LEFT BY AN ATARI OWNER WHO RAN
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52 OUT OF GAMES TO PLAY. WHAT A SHAME, HE/SHE
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53 SHOULD HAVE BOUGHT THE ONE AND ONLY - TI99/4
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54 WILL PEOPLE EVER LEARN.
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55 {}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}
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56 Do you mean you can play games with these things? And you don't
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57 even have to put in a quarter? This is really one of the wonders
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58 of the electronic age. I even heard that the "BIG 'A'" or someone
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59 like them is even selling Terrible Instruments 99/4 computers
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60 with a pyramid marketing scheme. They must really be a drug on
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61 the market!
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62 ==================================================================
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63 I'd like to see ANY TI 99/4 with 64K RAM
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64 like my ATARI has!!!
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65 In fact, do any of you "small" computer owners
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66 have 64K of RAM (or more)???
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67 ===+++++++++++++++===========+++++++++++==========+++++++++++
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68 ////////////////////////////////////////
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69 LET'S NOT GET INTO ONE OF THESE "My computer
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70 can lick your computer." JAGS. ENOUGH
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71 ABOUT QUARTER ATARIS, TRASH-80, CRAPPLE,
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72 TERRIBLE INSTRUMENTS, ETC. HAS BEEN WRITT@EN.
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73 BESIDES, I'vE GOT THIS 512K TIMEX THAT I
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74 JUST BOUGHT FROM MEIER AND FRANK FOR $59.95
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75 THAT WILL KICK ANYBODY'S BUTT!!!!
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76 ///?////////////////////////////////////
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77 Why don't we get into one of these "My computer can lick your computer."
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78 jags? My computer CAN lick your computer, it weighs in at about 155 lbs.
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79 and stands 4'3" and packs two Z-80 processors, 65535 bytes of memory,
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80 two 8", two 5 1/4" disk drives, three RS-232, 2 1/2 parallel I/O ports.
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81 and a PMMI MM-103 modem. Any challengers? Warning, I have acces to my
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82 computers 'Big Brothers' at work and I can and will call for help if
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83 needed....
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84 the Phantom Glitch
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85 10/7/82, Noonish.
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86
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87 ================================================
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88 Well, my Model II TRS-80 won't lick, run circles, or overwhelm
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89 you boys, BUT I SURE LIKE MY SEMI-DISK!
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90 GREAT for compiling...
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91 ===========================================
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92 Well, my poor 'ol computer doesn't really care much about if it can
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93 beat up some other poor suckers computer. It just likes to work.
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94 It does that very well thank you 24 hours a day 7 days a week, and
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95 no complaints.
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96 +++++ The believer +++++ 1:46 AM +++++ 8 Nov 82 +++++
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97 WHAT A SYSTEM!!!!! Its so simple I love it!!!!! Not alot of silly old
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98 commands to remember!!!!! This will be popular!!!!
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99
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100 TO MIKEY, THE LEADER OF THE PACK, THE TALL ONE IN THE SADDLE,
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101 THE IDESTRUCCCTABLE ONE.
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102
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103 I just found out what you were talking about a while ago.....
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104
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105 Yes, I to have the answer of life the quest is near complete.
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106 I two have seen the light the glimmer of hope the ray of
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107 completion the true meaning..........yes, those little
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108 four legged creaures were running our lives all along....
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109
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110 yes, 42 is the answer...
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111 ****************************************************************
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112 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
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113 Still haven't seen anything that beats
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114 my Atari with 72K of RAM & ROM!
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115 Keep trying boys (and girls).
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116 As for reliability, Haven't had a problem
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117 since I bought it!!!! And it logs in
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118 several hours every day.
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119 ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
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120 I have always been curious. How does a 6502 processor with
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121 a 16-bit memory register access more than 64k?
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122 (ATARI users see CBBS under BWMS trouble!!!)
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123 GUESS WHEN THE FIRST SNOW WILL FALL ON PORTLAND...........
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124 I SAY NOVEMBER 22ND AT 3 AM
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125 *****************************************************************
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126 Well, I'm trying again. So far so good. Mike,
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127 you have another message on CBBS. This isn't working.
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128 (Sorry!!!)
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129
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130 TO THE JERK WHO THINKS 64K IS ALOT OF CORE FOR A MICRO,
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131 MOST OTHER MICROS HAVE 64K RAM TO. MOST DON'T HAVE TO
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132 PLUG IN BASIC LIKE THE STUPID ATARI DOES. THE MACHINE IS A
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133 JOKE TO PEOPLE WHO WANT TO DO SOMETHING SERIOUS WITH COMPUTERS, NOT
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134 JUST PLAY GAMES. OH SURE, ATARI HAS CENTIPEDE AND PACMAN, BUT
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135 MOST OTHERS HAVE LANGUAGES AND APPLICATION SOFTWARE THAT WOULD MAKE
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136 AN ATARI OWNER'S HEAD SPIN. AND HOW ABOUT THAT GREAT 40 CHARACTER SCREEN.
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137 WOW! HOW ADVANCED. THEY MADE IT THAT WAY SO YOU COULD HOOK UP THE THING
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138 TO A TV SET. NOW THERE IS A DEDICATED COMPUTER IF I EVER HEARD OF ONE.
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139 LETS GET SERIOUS. THE ATARI IS GREAT FOR THE FAMILY ROOM FOR PLAYING
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140 GAMES, BUT LEAVE IT OUT OF THE SERIOUS COMPUTER SCIENCE WORLD!
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141
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142 BY THE WAY, THE DAYS OF 64K BEING THE 'ULTAMITE' SYSTEM ARE GONE. IT
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143 JUST GOES TO SHOW HOW SMALL THE ATARI USERS ARE USED TO THINKING. IF
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144 YOU WANT TO START BRAGGING ABOUT MAIN MEMORY, YOU BETTER START AT 256K
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145 AND WORK ON UPWARDS!
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146
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147 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
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148 1) The Atari with 64K of RAM accesses part of
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149 that ram by Bank Selecting.
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150 2)All 8-bit Mican access only 64K of total
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151 memory. in many Micros the 64K RAM is bank selected
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152 and is usually overlayed by the ROM (which contains
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153 their BASIC), changing BASICs' is difficult.
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154 3)Atari has a true Operating Sy - most micros do not.
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155 4) Languages for Atari:
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156 Atari BASIC
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157 Microsoft BASIC
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158 Assembly
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159 Macro-assembler
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160 Pascal
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161 Forth (several versions)
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162 Pilot
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163 ? Compiler BASIC
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164 PLUS 2 or 3 less common languages!
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165 5)Atari came standard years ago with "Sprites" -- Just
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166 now becoming available for other computers.
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167
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168 6)Atari has the best Graphics System in their price range!
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169 (its the same kind as used on the BIG graphics machines)
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170 uses the 6502 processor -- same as Apple
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171 and Vic and several others.
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172 SAME AS SYM, KIM AND AIMENGINEERING COMPUTERS!!!
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173 8)the list goes on -- actually the Atari is more
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174 complicated than most of the machines
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175 it requires more programming ability!
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176 *********************************************************
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177 Alas, the trees wither and chill winds blow!
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178 Darkness creeps across the land.
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179 Where can I hear the voices of my fellow creatures?
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180 Bring back the light and the rainbow land!
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181 *******Grey Ghost*******************************************
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182 I like the Atari just fine but my 3084
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183 can run rings around it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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184 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
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185 ================================================================
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186 Scientific observation, like how much my cat is eating and how deep
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187 the earthworms in my flower beds have chosen to lie, tell me that theirst
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188 city-wide snowfall will occur mid-morning, December 14. Count on it.
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189 The darkness has not yet completely come, there is stil a glimmer of hope
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190 in this cold hard world. I offer my hand in friendship that we may both
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191 be the betFor though the end of the golden age seems near
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192 it is but the begining of a new and more wonderess time of joy. Spring
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193 forth oh stormy weather and bring on the clouds of wetness. For in those
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194 clouds lay the seeds of life for the rainbows yet to be. The good is only
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195 good when there is bad against which to compare. And in the end as with
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196 all things of this sort we still must ask what is good and what is bad.
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197 @@@@@@ Leo the Bull @@@@@@@ 11:06 PM 11 Nov 82 @@@@@@
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198 HEY LEO...TODAY IS THE 10TH....NOT THE 11TH....YOU CALLIN' IN FROM IDAHO?
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199 STOP
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200 *************************************************************************
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201 personally or is it personnelly..
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202
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203 who cares about Atari ????????
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204 my 409 dual quuads onmy Hemi can n my Hemi can take all you guys,
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205 got any takers or all of you whimps got cream cheese for
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206 guts?
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207
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208 *******************************************************************
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209 Has anyone ever noticed the fierce competition evident on this system?
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210 While the Dragon Lady was here, all of the elfin dialog was obviously
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211 geared toward some sort of sexual conquest machoism. Now that she(?)
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212 is gone, everyone has to pit their clock frequencies against each other
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213 to prove their superiority.
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214 Let me throw down the next gauntlet. My modem can go faster than
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215 yours any day. I have a supercharged Ma Bell 208 that can do 4800
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216 bps over unconditioned lines from a standing start. Anyone want
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217 to line up for pink slips?
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218 {}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{} Analog Alan {}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{} PM Nov 10
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219 Let's be even less hostile. Lovely we're having weather, isn't it?
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220 Snow on more than the west hills by November 28.
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221 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^Glen Groundhog^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
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222
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223 TO THE BIG ATARI EXPERT. I NOTICE, AMOUNG OTHER OMISSIONS, TWO 2 SMALL
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224 COMPUTER LANGUAGES ARE MISSING. NOW I DON'T KNOW ABOUT YOU, BUT I SURE
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225 DON'T KNOW
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226 ANYONE WHO USES COBOL AND FORTRAN. NOW THERE ARE TWO UNIMPORTANT COMPUTER
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227 LANGUAGES. AND ATARI PASCAL...GEE WHIZ MISTER, LET'S GETS SERIOUS, IT IS
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228 GREAT TO USE WITH ATARI GRAPHICS, WHICH ARE NICE, BUT WITH ALL ITS
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229 'UN-NEEDED' LANGUAGE DELETIONS, IT CAN HARDLY BE TAKEN AS A STANDARD
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230 PASCAL. IT IS MORE OF AN ATARI PASCAL. ATARI PASCAL PROGRAMMERS WILL
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231 HAVE TO BE CONTENT IN THEIR OWN LITTLE WORLD. TO INCLUDE BASIC AND ASSEMBLER
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232 AS 'EXTRA' LANGUAGES IS LIKE SAYING 'MY CAR CAME WITH TIRES!', I
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233 THINK WE CAN TAKE AS A STANDARD THE COMPUTER COMES WITH BASIC AND
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234 ASSEMBLER.
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235 IF I WAS A COMPUTER SALESMAN TRYING TO SELL A SYSTEM TO A BUSINESS, AND
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236 ONE OF THE THINGS THAT THE ATARI HAD GOING FOR IT, AND IT A POINT THEY
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237 NEVER FAIL TO MAKE, IS THE TERRIF PLAYER MISSLE GRAPHICS, I DON'T THINK
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238 I WOULD SELL MANY OF THEM TO THESE PEOPLE WHO TAKE THE COMPUTER
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239 VERY SERIOUSLY. BUT DAD AND SON, COMING TO LOOK FOR A GAME WOULD BE
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240 IMPRESSED. LET'S NOT GET THE ATARI OUT OF THE FAMILY ROOM AND INTO
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241 THE 'BIG GUY' COMPUTER WORLD. ATARI SHOULD THINK OF THE 10 OR 20
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242 FORTRAN AND COBOL PROGRAMMERS WHO ARE BUYING IBM'S AND APPLES AND TRS-80'S
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243 AND CPM MACHINES AND ALL THE OTHERS THAT FOR SOME REASON, CHOSE TO
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244 MAKE IMPLEMENTATIONS OF THESE, AS ATARI MUST THINK, UNIMPORTANT LANGUAGES.
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245 IT CERTAINLY COULDN'T BE HARDWARE AND/OR PROGRAMMING CONSTRAINTS COULD
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246 IT? CONSIDERING THE ATARI IS SO FAR AHEAD OF ITS TIME.
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247 AND WHILE WE ARE ON THE SUBJECT, ANYONE WHO BRAGS ABOUT THE DIFFICULTY
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248 OF PROGRAMMING A COMPUTER, SAYING THE PROGRAMMERS AHO MUST DEAL
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249 WITH IT ARE BETTER, BUST EITHER BE KIDDING, OR LIVING IN THE MIDDLE
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250 AGES. THAT ARGUMENT WENT OUT WITH THE NOVA 2!
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251
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252 *****************************************************
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253 I never could get the hang of digital watches, but then I never
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254 did see what was so nifty about them anyway.
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255 @@@@@@ Leo the Bull @@@@@@ 10:53 PM @@@@@ 10 Nov 82 @@@@@
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256 ********************************************************
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257 WHAT EVER HAPPENED TO THE OLD CREW? SHIFTY, DBBS SYSOP, DINGY, ET AL?
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258 ****** THE ALWAYS FEARFULL CISTOP MIKEY **************************
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259
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260 ******************************************************************
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261 THE OLD CREW DIED AND WENT TO WHERE EVER THEY SELL ATARI &
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262 COMMODORE STUFF. THE OLD CREW GOT THE SHOCK OF THE ENTIRE
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263 WORLD WHEN THEY FOUND OUT THE WORLD WAS INDEED NOT FLAT.
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264 THE OLD CREW A BB REAL NEAT COLLECTIION OF LEFT-OVERS GOT
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265 STALLED IN TRAFFIC WHEN THEY FOUND OUT THAT WATER REALLY
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266 WILL NOT WORK AS GOOD AS GASOLINE IN AUTOMOBILES. THE OLD
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267 CREW IS IN AFGANISTAN (OR WHAT EVER) STILL TRYING TO USE
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268 THAT LONG TUNNEL TO ESCAPE FROM DANGER. THE OLD CREW IS
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269 NO LONGER THE OLD CREW. FOR THEY ARE OF PAST TROYS OF YESTER
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270 YEAR.....
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271 ***********************WILSON PICKET***************************
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272 Well while you "serious" computer programmers
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273 are re-inventing the wheel for your "serious"
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274 computers, us Atari programmers will be learning
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275 to program the Atari to do the things that
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276 your computers can not do and we will be making
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277 lots of $$$. Decry the games if you will, but
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278 no other machine can match Atari there and the
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279 people who wrote those games are raking in the $$$$'s!!!
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280 As for serious applications, Why the field's
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281 wide open for me (and other Atari programmers)
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282 to write some good applications programs and
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283 make big $$$$. Can you say the same for your machine?
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284 **************************************************************
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285 A lot of programmers apparently like to use Pascal. I'll admit to
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286 never having used it, but I have read several articles and one book
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287 on the language. Frankly, I don't see what all of the fuss is about.
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288 It does have some nice features, such as mixed data types in records
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289 and convenient procedural organization, but I find the whole thing
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290 just a bit too rigid for my taste (just as BASIC is too much like a
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291 piece of overcooked linguine).
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292 Several of the professional programmers that I work with really
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293 don't care for it either. I'd like to hear from a Pascal addict;
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294 what is the attraction?
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295 {}{}{}{}{}{}{}{} Analog Alan {}{}{}{}{}{}{}{} pm Nov 11 {}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}
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296
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297 TO THE ATARI NUT. SINCE THERE ARE SO MANY MORE IBM'S AND APPLES AND
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298 TRS-80'S OUT THERE THEN THERE ARE ATARI'S, ANYONE WHO PROGRAMS THEM
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299 WILL MAKE A HELL OF ALOT MORE MONEY THEN HE/SHE COULD WRITING GAME
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300 PROGRAMS FOR THE ATARI. GAMES ARE BUT A NOVELTY, THEY SOON DIE OF LACK
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301 OF INTEREST. I STILL DIDN'T SEE ANY REBUFFS TO THE PREVIOUS COMMENTS,
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302 SO I'LL TAKE THE SILENCE AS YOU ARE NOT ABLE TO REFUTE MY CLAIMS. I AND
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303 ALOT OF OTHER PEOPLE HAVE SEEN THE POOR ATARI GAMES MACHINES BITE THE
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304 DUST IN YET ANOTHER TEST OF COMPUTER MUSCLES.
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305 BY THE WAY, YOU BETTER GET OFF YOUR LAURALS ABOUT THE ATARI BEING
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306 SO SOPHISTICATED. THERE ARE NEW COMPUTERS OUT NOW THAT MAKE THE GRAPHICS
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307 ON THE ATARI LOOK SILLY. HOW GOOD AF PICTURE CAN YOU GET WITH A TV
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308 ANYWAY. IT IS PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE TO DISPLAY IN GOOD CLARITY HIRES
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309 GRAPHICS ON A STANDARD TV. FACE FACTS BUD, YOU AND IT JUST CAN'T HACK
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310 IT. LITERALLY.
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311 ********************************************************************
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312 There are so many I don't know where to start. But let's look
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313 at the last comment - It turns out that the Atari comes
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314 with a outlet for a Monitor (B&W or Color) as well
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315 as a connection for a TV.
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316 Next: Basic CPU for Atari is EXACTLY the same as for Apple.
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317 Anything (including Languages) that can be run on the
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318 Apple can also be adapted for the Atari.
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319 The Atari also has a separate computer chip for handling
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320 the display - saves the CPU a lot of processing time!
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321 The basic off-the-shelf Atari comes with upper AND lower case,
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322 and includes a text mode that has TRUE DECENDERS!!
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323 The basic Apple comes with upper case only - lower case = extra $$.
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324 The Atari not only has a redefinable character set,
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325 it also has a redefinable keyboard! - great for foreign languages.
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326 Player/missiles can be used for special symbols -
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327 like mathematical sigmas, functions, deltas, etc. these
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328 symbols can span more than one text line and can be positioned
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329 anywhere on the screen.-- mathematical formuas can look
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330 the same on the screen as in the book!!!
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331 Atari handles the screen as an I/O device - this permits
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332 self-modifying programs (executable code as well as Data statements)
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333 try that with your Apple!
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334 This is just a beginning - so far YOU have't
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335 made any specific claims for superioity other than
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336 some of these other machines have been around longer
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337 and have more software for them (remember, computer
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338 languages are software!), so how about you digging up something
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339 your MACHINE can do that Atari can't (besides cost more!).
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340 *****************************************************************
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341 **** FLASH *****
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342 That super-charged Atari MAY become even more supercharged!!
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343 Coming soon for the Atari 800: 192K memory upgrade -
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344 48K hardwired main memory plus 32 banks of 4K each!!
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345 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
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349 That ol' reflex hit me again...... the Phantom Glitch
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350
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353 ========================================================================
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354 TO THE ATARI DEFENDER: If you are truly a serious programmer, heed this:
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355 I will consider taking on an associate in my business, to concentrate
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356 on financial applications in retail sales, written on WANG hardware. You
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357 will eventually take over my client base, my specialty software, and my
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358 headaches as I move on. Serious responses only, in personal message form,
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359 on Connection 80, xxx-xxxx. Dave Rodman, Systems Consultant 11/12
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360 ========================================================================
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361 **************************************************************************
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362
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363 NEED A COMPUTER? CAN'T AFFORD TO BUY ONE ?
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364 RENT ONE!
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365
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366 DATASOURCE COMPUTER
|
||
367 CENTER
|
||
368
|
||
369
|
||
370 PORTLAND, OR. 97201
|
||
371 xxx-xxxx
|
||
372
|
||
373
|
||
374 TO THE ATARI DEFENDER
|
||
375 WHO THE HELL SAID I HAD AN APPLE. AND WHO THE HELL SAID I
|
||
376 DIDN'T HAVE Upper lower case either. You have got your facts all wrong
|
||
377 bud. tell me mister, what computer worth its salt doesn't have
|
||
378 a redifinable keyboard. That is old hat, just like most of the otehr
|
||
379 stuff you brag that your Atari has. If and the damn CPU is the same as
|
||
380 an apple, how come you don't have a decent pascal, or a fortran or a
|
||
381 cobol? What will you tell me this time to side step the main issue?
|
||
382 The Atari is a great machine for writing interesting games and limited
|
||
383 applications software, but it just can't hack demanding applications like
|
||
384 most serious computer users need. Atari themselves don't advertise
|
||
385 the atari computer as being a competitor to the systems that are
|
||
386 capable of putting out when required. You make the Atari sound like the
|
||
387 best thing underneath a keyboard. Well you are wrong, dead wrong. I
|
||
388 personally know of several people who went shopping for computers, and
|
||
389 all of them looked at the Atari as one of the choices. All came away with
|
||
390 something else. Whether is was the ridiculus keyboard(I'm talking about
|
||
391 the 800), or the 40 char screen, or the lack of serious software, or the
|
||
392 'game machine' atmosphere painted by the salesmen, or the decrepite disk
|
||
393 drives that are slower than sin, or the lack of a reasonable hard
|
||
394 disk, or a host of other weaknesses, they all chose something else.
|
||
395 Who is going to buy a computer that looks and acts like a toy. Sorry fella,
|
||
396 you stay in your own little atari world, and let the rest of the world
|
||
397 'dwell' in their choises of their 'vastly superoir' computers.
|
||
398
|
||
399 End of tirade.......................by a semi-mad man..................
|
||
400 ******************************************************************
|
||
401 As I recall, you are the one who mentioned in a previous message
|
||
402 about Apples (and IBM and TRS80) being "serious" machines.
|
||
403 Also 80 columns vidio is avail. for Atari (extra cost just like
|
||
404 for Apple and some models of TRS80's)
|
||
405 You keep carping about "serious" applications but have declined
|
||
406 to enumerate them.
|
||
407 Disk drives? Slow is a relative term -- I know one thing:
|
||
408 My Atari Disk Drive gives me almost no errors while my CP/M
|
||
409 machine gives me BDOS errors about every third time and often
|
||
410 gives me a bad program load!!!
|
||
411 As far as languages and other software, if Atari had been first
|
||
412 out of the gate instead of Apple, there probably be more for the
|
||
413 Atari than there is for the Apple and the TRS80 combined!!
|
||
414 As for why other people choose other computers:
|
||
415 A guy at work was saying about the same things about the Atari
|
||
416 as you have been, but when I pinned him down he admited that
|
||
417 the reason he preferred Apple and TI was because his brother
|
||
418 had one and he was more familiar with it than the Atari
|
||
419 (actually he didn't know anything about the Atari!!!!!)
|
||
420 One advantage of Atari over IBM PC:
|
||
421 IBM has RAM dedicated for the display and is therfore limited -
|
||
422 The Atari display memory can reside ANYWHERE in memory!!
|
||
423 Multiple display memorys can be built an accessed by the program!
|
||
424 As far as Atari being a game machine - yes so far it is
|
||
425 BUT IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE.
|
||
426 The Atari Word Processor program has some features that
|
||
427 are superior (more convienient) than Wordstar!!! (we use both!!)
|
||
428 *****************************************************************
|
||
429 ps: Hard Disk - Corvus Hard disk interfaces to the Atari.
|
||
430 Other hard and soft disks are expected soon!!
|
||
431 *****************************************************************
|
||
432 pps: Quote:: "Atari Pascal supports the International Standards
|
||
433 Organization (ISO) draft standard (DPS/7185 as of 10/1/80),...."
|
||
434 "Although Atari Pascal isn't completely compatable with
|
||
435 UCSD Pascal, both versions are written around a common core-
|
||
436 Pascal as defined by Jensen and Wirth. the differences
|
||
437 aren't as significant as, for example, the differences
|
||
438 in various BASICs"
|
||
439 Unquote.
|
||
440 Besides, You gotta expect that ANY language written for a
|
||
441 machine with superior capabilities (GRaphics for Atari, What you got?)
|
||
442 is going to have commands unique to that machine!
|
||
443 If your machine uses exactly the same languages as
|
||
444 a bunch of others, then maybe yours is just another overpriced
|
||
445 dime-a-dozen machine like the others.
|
||
446 (Atari pascal costs $49 - how much did yours cost??)
|
||
447 *****************************************************************
|
||
448
|
||
449 I have been reading the big argument between the Atari fan
|
||
450 and the person who is not so hot on Atari. I see good and
|
||
451 bad points by both people. While it is true the Atari is
|
||
452 seen mostly as a game machine, it seems to me, given a chance,
|
||
453 it could become a more serious machine. But it does have some
|
||
454 drawbacks. It doesn't have one big powerful language such as
|
||
455 Cobol or Fortran. It took atari quite a while for them to
|
||
456 even get Microsoft BASIC. The atari pascal, which is more
|
||
457 a development language for the atari itself, does have some
|
||
458 nice features. But unfortunatly it also has some of the features
|
||
459 one might expect from a $50 pascal. Not unlike JRT pascal, there
|
||
460 are some annoying compiler bugs. It is also missing some of the
|
||
461 extensions of pascal, which, although are not standard, are
|
||
462 standard amoung micro pascals.
|
||
463
|
||
464 Someone mentioned how the atari can put its screen memory anywhere
|
||
465 in memory, and the IBM PC didn't have this quality. Well I'm sorry
|
||
466 to say that the IBM PC, although it does have dedicated screen
|
||
467 memory, it has more screen memory that the atari has in its entire
|
||
468 memory. It also has a higher graphics resolution, and can display
|
||
469 more colors. But the IBM doesn't even have the best graphics for
|
||
470 the so-called second generation micros. Some like the new Dec
|
||
471 Rainbow, the Epson, and some lesser known names.
|
||
472 As for software, have you ever seen just how many programs are
|
||
473 available for TRS-80's and Apples. Thousands apon thousands of
|
||
474 programs. I doubt that the Atari itself could surpass these 2
|
||
475 classic computers in software available. Both have CPM options,
|
||
476 already have a variaty of soft, hard, and ram disks available,
|
||
477 and now co-processors. Both TRS-80 and Apple can get 8088 CPU
|
||
478 and 8087 co-processor boards. They will then be able to address
|
||
479 up to 256K, WITHOUT bank selecting. There may be more sophisticated
|
||
480 computers out there, but none have the software base these 2
|
||
481 have. Do you realize there are over 1 million apples and trs-80's
|
||
482 out in the world. That is far more than any computer has now or
|
||
483 will have in the near future. Lets not get carried away with
|
||
484 Atari. It is an interesting machine, but not yet a classic. I am
|
||
485 speaking from experience. I have hdone extensive programming on
|
||
486 all three computers. All are nice, but some of the amenities on
|
||
487 the TRS-80 and Apple make them much nicer to program on. I hope
|
||
488 the Atari's limitations don't deter people from working on it though. Most
|
||
489 all the micros deserve as much priase as they can get. They are
|
||
490 all marvelous machines.
|
||
491 XT
|
||
492
|
||
493 On the subject of whosa-gotza the finest micro....
|
||
494 (by the way, my monster does indeed have a Semidisk(tm) installed.)
|
||
495 Please do not credit Apple Corp., or Tandy for all the neat software
|
||
496 that is available for the machines they build. Both companies have
|
||
497 gone out of the way to dscourage outside vendors of software and es-
|
||
498 pecialy hardware add-ons for these systems. (it's gotten a little
|
||
499 better, but not much) I find it mildly humerous tha Apple is now
|
||
500 against copy protection, it seems no one is buying the Apple hard disk
|
||
501 because YOU CAN NOT COPY THE SOFTWARE FROM THE FLOPPY ON TO THE HARD
|
||
502 DISK!!!!! Tandy is famous for 'if it wasn't bought here, it will break
|
||
503 our machine' syndrome (and yes, I understand all the reasons for this
|
||
504 policy).
|
||
505 IBM is happy to have anyone and everyone building anything for the PC.
|
||
506 (by the way, if you want a poor mans PC, call WRAM at xxx-xxxx and ask
|
||
507 for Gary, he will fill you in on the swindle)~ If you make something
|
||
508 really nifty, IBM will be happy to buy you out. ~I believe that almost
|
||
509 every PC in the first 6 months production is in the hands of someone who
|
||
510 plans to make something for the PC. This is a triumph of faith over
|
||
511 judgement. Some are going to get rich, a lot will have a rather nice
|
||
512 little machine....
|
||
513 The Glitches Law: All the good software was done on someone elses time.
|
||
514 Anyone like to refute it?
|
||
515 the Phantom Glitch
|
||
516 13:00 11/14/82
|
||
517
|
||
518 ************************************************************
|
||
519 Thanks Glitch for the support.
|
||
520 There is also a CP/M board for the Atari.
|
||
521 Lest some misunderstand me, I am not saying that Atari is the
|
||
522 best Micro that has ever been (or ever will be) built.
|
||
523 What I am saying is that Atari is in the same class (and in some
|
||
524 respects better than) with computers such as Apple and TRS80.
|
||
525 As for Atari colors: 128 can be on the screen at the same time
|
||
526 and creative programmers can extend this range even further
|
||
527 Is that enough colors for you???
|
||
528 As for IBM PC's Display memory: The specs show 4K for monochrome
|
||
529 and 16K for color - against Atari's 48K for a STANDARD OFF-THE-SHELF
|
||
530 machine.
|
||
531 Also, Atari is about 3 yrs old - a lot younger than Apple or TRS
|
||
532 As for High Level languages such as Cobol and Fortran,
|
||
533 what good are they going to do for the average Micro owner??
|
||
534 Thats one question I would really like an answer to - 'cause
|
||
535 so far I can't see anything I can't do with a combination
|
||
536 of BASIC and Assembly (especially Assembly).
|
||
537 As for making money: I (or someone else) can make $$$
|
||
538 by writing a Wordstar equivalent for the Atari -
|
||
539 but I sure can't make anything writing Wordstar for a CP/M
|
||
540 machine 'cause IT'S ALREADY BEEN DONE!!!
|
||
541 The Atari Keyboard isn't all that bad - we have used it
|
||
542 for 8-hour a day Word Processing -- it's not great
|
||
543 but it is acceptable. As far as that goes
|
||
544 the IBM PC is reported to have the best computer keyboard, yet
|
||
545 it too has faults!!!!!!!
|
||
546 One thing that stands out about Atari is its rugged build
|
||
547 Since Atari had games and Kids in mind, they built it
|
||
548 to withstand abuse that office computers will never see!!!
|
||
549 As to total number of units: Atari is selling them faster
|
||
550 than they can make them and is expanding their production
|
||
551 in hopes of catching up with demand.
|
||
552 ************************************************************
|
||
553 HA! COBOL AND FORTRAN ARE NOT IMPORTANT? I COULD NOT HELP BUT ENTER MY
|
||
554 OWN THOUGHTS HERE. HOW DARE YOU SAY COBOL AND FORTRAN ARE NOT NEEDED
|
||
555 BY THE AVERAGE MICRO OWNER. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AT THE AVERAGE MICRO
|
||
556 OWNER! I BET THE ONLY REASON YOU SAY THESE LANGUAGES ARE NOT IMPORTANT
|
||
557 IS BECAUSE YOU DON'T HAVE THEM! THE AVAILABILITY OF THESE HIGH LEVEL
|
||
558 LANGUAGES, AND I MEAN GOOD IMPLEMENTATIONS OF THEM, HAVE SOLD MANY A
|
||
559 COMPUTER FOR TANDY, ATARI, AND APPLE. ATARI CAN'T HACK IT IN THE BIZ
|
||
560 WORLD. WHAT PROGRAM HAS SOLD LOTS OF ATARIS? STAR RAIDERS! YES ANOTHER
|
||
561 GAME FOR THIS DEDICATED GAME MACHINE! ATARI ISN'T IN THE CLASS OF THE
|
||
562 APPLE, TRS-80, AND IBM, AND IT NEVER WILL BE.
|
||
563 IT IS ABOUT TIME PEOPLE STARTED REALIZING MICRO COMPUTERS ARE MORE THAN
|
||
564 GAME MACHINES. BUT ATARI DOES JUST THE OPPOSITE. THEY PAINT THE GAME
|
||
565 MACHINE IMIAGE ALL OVER THEIR ADS. THEIR COMMERCIALS SHOW CENTIPEDE AND
|
||
566 PACMAN, NOT ACCOUNTS RECEIVABLE AND VISICALC. WHEN ATARI FINALLY
|
||
567 GOT VISICALC, THEY PUT OUT A CHOPPED UP VERSION HARDLY WORTH THE
|
||
568 MEDIA IT IS DISTRIBUTED ON! THEY JUST WANTED TO SAY THEY HAD VISICALC
|
||
569 AVAILABLE!
|
||
570
|
||
571 AS FOR GRAPHICS, A GOOD FRIEND OF MINE HAS AN IBM. HE HAS FAR MORE THAN
|
||
572 16K AVAILABLE FOR GRAPHICS. GRAPHICS MEM IS REALLY UNLIMITED. THE RESOLUTIION
|
||
573 ON THE IBM BLOWS THE SOCKS OFF THE ATARI. IT IS A FAR MORE SOPHISTCATED
|
||
574 MACHINE GRAPHICALLY. IT ALSO COSTS MORE, BUT TO GET A COMPUTER
|
||
575 THAT IS WORTH ITS SALT AND CAN DO THE WORK REQUIRED, THE DIFFERENCE
|
||
576 BETWEEN THE 2 COMPUTERS IS MINIMAL. I HAVE ALSO USED THE ATARI. THEY HAVE
|
||
577 A COUPLE OUT AT MHCC. WHEN PEOPLE COME IN, THEY EITHER ASK FOR
|
||
578 PACMAN FOR THE ATARI, OR ASSEMBLER AND/OR DOS DISK FOR THE TRS80 AND APPLE.
|
||
579 ONCE AGAIN........GAMES ATARI....APPLICATIONS OTHERS.
|
||
580
|
||
581 ________________________________________________________________
|
||
582 Re: Atari
|
||
583
|
||
584 I wish to state two problems with the Atari.
|
||
585 It is almost impossible to get USEFUL info regarding its
|
||
586 capabilites from salesmen OR from the "sales literature"
|
||
587 at the store.
|
||
588 2. Atari has an attitude regarding outside vendors of software
|
||
589 that makes Tandy & Apple seem like saints! I do NOT care
|
||
590 to deal with a company that says that they have the right
|
||
591 to determine what software can be used on their machine.
|
||
592 (i.e. the lawsuit against the makers of "Custer's Revenge)
|
||
593 (I'm not saying it is a good program, but if Atari wins
|
||
594 then they can use the decision to prevent ANY outside
|
||
595 vendor from writing for their machines.)
|
||
596
|
||
597 I also dislike their "if it remotely resembles our software, it
|
||
598 must be a copyright violation" attitude. I mean sueing someone
|
||
599 over a TRS-80 (!) program that VAGUELY resembles one of their
|
||
600 arcade games!?
|
||
601 (oh, by the way, TI has 56k of PROGRAM memory & some 60 or 70k
|
||
602 of rom space available (WITHOUT bank switching). It also has
|
||
603 sprite graphics. It doesn't have much software, but I seem to
|
||
604 remember someone saying that lack of software (for the ATARI)
|
||
605 didn't matter it was the HARDWARE capabilities that counted!
|
||
606 I don't have a TI but if I know this much about it, I wonder
|
||
607 what someone who OWNS one would have to say!)
|
||
608 If Atari is so dead set against outside software companys
|
||
609 why did they release their Operating System Manual,
|
||
610 their Hardware manual, and a book All About Atari?
|
||
611 From what I hear, you can't get a tenth of this
|
||
612 information from other computer manufacturers!
|
||
613 Pardon me, but I
|
||
614 have thought a lot about it and I think perhaps
|
||
615 it might be better (for me) if I shut up and let you
|
||
616 "serious" computer programmers continue to denigrate things
|
||
617 befor really looking at them.
|
||
618 You've earned your place next to ENIAC!
|
||
619 (AND THE DINOSAURS)
|
||
620 **************************************************************
|
||
621
|
||
622 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
|
||
623 Hey S---mouth, instead of badmouthing my computer,
|
||
624 why don't you answer my question:
|
||
625 WHY IS COBOL AND/OR FORTRAN DESIRABLEFOR MY COMPUTER
|
||
626 (WHATEVER BRAND)?
|
||
627
|
||
628 How is it better? faster?
|
||
629 What can they do that BASIC & Assembler cannot do????
|
||
|