1194 lines
41 KiB
Plaintext
1194 lines
41 KiB
Plaintext
|
|
|
|
#: 20925 S1/General Interest
|
|
25-Apr-95 14:39:15
|
|
Sb: OS/9 bulk disk copy?
|
|
Fm: Hans Van Schepdael 100530,1015
|
|
To: all
|
|
|
|
Dear,
|
|
|
|
|
|
My disk duplication facility has a problem! I want to duplicate OS/9 floppies
|
|
on a TRACE copier. The copier, however, can't read those disks. Are there
|
|
drivers available for the TRACE copiers so that OS/9 disks can be duplicated.
|
|
|
|
Many thanks for the help.
|
|
|
|
Hans
|
|
|
|
#: 20934 S1/General Interest
|
|
27-Apr-95 12:30:30
|
|
Sb: DAVID System
|
|
Fm: Ugo Alvazzi del Fra 73364,3312
|
|
To: all
|
|
|
|
Does anybody know something about DAVID system ?
|
|
|
|
What I know actually is:
|
|
- runs OS/9
|
|
- supports the RAVE environment
|
|
|
|
I would appreciate much any further information.
|
|
|
|
Thank you,
|
|
|
|
Ugo Alvazzi del Frate
|
|
Rome ITALY
|
|
|
|
#: 20935 S1/General Interest
|
|
28-Apr-95 14:04:23
|
|
Sb: CoCo Fest Update Pt#1
|
|
Fm: Rogelio Perea 72056,1204
|
|
To: ALL
|
|
|
|
NEWS RELEASE
|
|
NEWS RELEASE
|
|
NEWS RELEASE
|
|
Here are the 5 "W's"
|
|
|
|
WHO? 1) The Glenside Color Computer Club of Illinois presents
|
|
WHAT? 2) The Fourth Annual "Last" Chicago CoCoFEST!
|
|
WHEN? 3) April 29th & 30th, 1995 (Sat. 10am-6pm; Sun. 10am-4pm)
|
|
WHERE? 4) HOLIDAY INN ELGIN (A Holidome Indoor Recreation Center)
|
|
345 W. River Road (A city block from I-90 & IL-31S)
|
|
Elgin, Illinois (Same great location as last year!)
|
|
Overnight room rate: $55.00 (plus 10% tax)
|
|
Call 1-708-695-5000 for reservations.
|
|
Be sure to ask for the "Glenside" or "CoCoFEST!" rate.
|
|
>>>>> YOU MUST REGISTER UNDER COCOFEST TO GET THIS RATE <<<<<
|
|
WHY? 5) A. To provide vendor support to the CoCo Community
|
|
B. To provide Community support to the CoCo Vendors
|
|
C. To provide educational support to new users.
|
|
D. TO HAVE AN OUTRAGEOUSLY GOOD TIME!!!!!
|
|
|
|
And now, the "H" word.
|
|
|
|
HOW MUCH? 1) Admission: $8.00 at the door, 2-day pass
|
|
$5.00 at the door, 1-day pass
|
|
Advance ticket sales: $5.00 + SASE for the whole show or
|
|
$5.00 + $.50 postage & handling
|
|
Children 8 and under FREE
|
|
|
|
Contact: George Schneeweiss, Treasurer
|
|
Glenside Color Computer Club
|
|
RR#2 Box 67
|
|
Forrest, IL 61741-9629
|
|
|
|
For further information, general or exhibitor, contact:
|
|
|
|
Tony Podraza, Fest Chairman Rob Gibons, Vice President, GCCCI
|
|
708-428-3576, VOICE 708-916-1118, VOICE
|
|
708-428-0436, BBS
|
|
Eddie Kuns,
|
|
President, GCCCI
|
|
708-820-3943, VOICE
|
|
|
|
|
|
#: 20936 S1/General Interest
|
|
28-Apr-95 14:04:40
|
|
Sb: CoCo Fest update Pt#2
|
|
Fm: Rogelio Perea 72056,1204
|
|
To: ALL
|
|
|
|
******************************************************************** *
|
|
* *************************************************************** *
|
|
* * * *
|
|
* * FEST UPDATE !!!! FEST UPDATE !!!! FEST UPDATE !!!!! * *
|
|
* * * *
|
|
* * MARTY GOODMAN WILL BE AT THE FEST GIVING SEMINARS * *
|
|
* * * *
|
|
* * ALSO THERE WILL BE: * *
|
|
* * Brother Jeremy Mike Cary * *
|
|
* * No Minimum Bid Auction on both days * *
|
|
* * Boise CDI KD Consulting * *
|
|
* * OS9 Users Group Meeting Nitros OS9 * *
|
|
* * Open OS9 forum Glenside Meeting * *
|
|
* * And Much Much More..... * *
|
|
* * * *
|
|
* * ALSO IF YOU'RE LOOKING TO GET A ROOM FOR THE FEST, * *
|
|
* * ALL ROOMS AT THE HOLIDAY IN ARE TAKEN; * *
|
|
* * HERE ARE THE OTHER HOTELS IN THE AREA: * *
|
|
* * SUPER 8 ELGIN INN BEST WESTERN * *
|
|
* * 708-697-8828 708-695-3000 708- - * *
|
|
* * HAMPTON INN AND DOWN THE ROAD A HOWARD JOHNSON * *
|
|
* * 708-931-1940 708-695-2100 * *
|
|
* * * *
|
|
* *************************************************************** *
|
|
******************************************************************** *
|
|
|
|
|
|
#: 20940 S1/General Interest
|
|
02-May-95 03:22:35
|
|
Sb: MVME162
|
|
Fm: Roy D Miller 100354,3307
|
|
To: ALL
|
|
|
|
Help I have a MVME162 board and I am having problems initialising and using the
|
|
Z85230 serial controlers. Has any one any source code that would point me in
|
|
the right direction.
|
|
Thank if you can help
|
|
Roy Miller
|
|
|
|
#: 20942 S1/General Interest
|
|
05-May-95 10:11:11
|
|
Sb: CD-I RTF GENERATOR
|
|
Fm: CHRISTOPH STUMMER 100067,1570
|
|
To: ALL
|
|
|
|
Who knows a Software named RTF GENERATOR ????
|
|
What is this Software doing ????
|
|
Which firm distribute this Software ???
|
|
|
|
Thanks
|
|
Stummer
|
|
|
|
#: 20972 S1/General Interest
|
|
30-May-95 10:43:39
|
|
Sb: X.25 & LAP-B
|
|
Fm: Paul S. Dayan 100040,400
|
|
To: All,
|
|
|
|
Does anyone know of X.25 and/or LAP-B support software for OS-9 V3.0 ?
|
|
|
|
#: 20969 S5/OS9 Users Group
|
|
24-May-95 15:19:43
|
|
Sb: #20763-In search or a COCO III
|
|
Fm: Don A. Dorsey 73204,3140
|
|
To: - Visitor 75262,1257
|
|
|
|
I have a CoCo 3 that a may be willing to part with. email me
|
|
Don Dorsey 73204,3140
|
|
|
|
#: 20951 S6/Applications
|
|
12-May-95 15:55:00
|
|
Sb: #Ved Upgrades
|
|
Fm: Rick LaVallie 76653,2244
|
|
To: Bob Van der Poel/ 76510,2203 (X)
|
|
|
|
I would be interested in buying any upgrades you have done to Ved and Vprint I
|
|
bought the package several years ago at an 0s9 meeting at my house you probably
|
|
do not remember being there,Bruce Isted and Jerry Mclary were both preasent at
|
|
the time. Any way I've just installed your HDISK.AR and it seems to be working
|
|
better/faster than the old one are there any other improvenments to the SCII &
|
|
4 in 1 Mods. around?
|
|
|
|
- please get back to me-
|
|
|
|
Rick LaVallie
|
|
|
|
There is 1 Reply.
|
|
|
|
#: 20954 S6/Applications
|
|
12-May-95 22:45:07
|
|
Sb: #20951-#Ved Upgrades
|
|
Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203
|
|
To: Rick LaVallie 76653,2244 (X)
|
|
|
|
Yes, Rick, I _do_ remember the meeting. Was fun.
|
|
|
|
The latest edition numbers are:
|
|
|
|
ved 2.9
|
|
vpt 2.1.6
|
|
|
|
upgrades are available to registered users for $5.00 each. Just send me or
|
|
original disks in a mailer with a check and a couple of bucks for postage and
|
|
I'll fire them back to you.
|
|
|
|
Nice to hear from you again.
|
|
|
|
There is 1 Reply.
|
|
|
|
#: 20957 S6/Applications
|
|
15-May-95 07:48:20
|
|
Sb: #20954-#Ved Upgrades
|
|
Fm: Rick LaVallie 76653,2244
|
|
To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X)
|
|
|
|
Hello Bob nice to here form you . I don't seem to have your mailing address
|
|
anywere or at least i cannot find it could you send it to me thanks. On another
|
|
subject I'm sure Bruce would like me to say Hi for him not sure if you have
|
|
talked to him lately but he is on his way to the Sudan today at 18:00,should be
|
|
an interesting trip. Will send my origanal VED disk to you as soon as I get
|
|
your address
|
|
|
|
Thanks Rick LaVallie.
|
|
|
|
There is 1 Reply.
|
|
|
|
#: 20960 S6/Applications
|
|
15-May-95 22:25:33
|
|
Sb: #20957-#Ved Upgrades
|
|
Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203
|
|
To: Rick LaVallie 76653,2244 (X)
|
|
|
|
From Canada, please send mail to:
|
|
|
|
PO Box 57
|
|
Wynndel, BC
|
|
V0B 2N0
|
|
|
|
No, I haven't talked to Bruce for quite some time. I was going to call him the
|
|
last time I was in Calgary...but never got to it. No Time, No Time!
|
|
|
|
So, is he going to do all kinds of OSK integration in the desert?
|
|
|
|
There is 1 Reply.
|
|
|
|
#: 20961 S6/Applications
|
|
17-May-95 10:02:08
|
|
Sb: #20960-#Ved Upgrades
|
|
Fm: Rick LaVallie 76653,2244
|
|
To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X)
|
|
|
|
Thanks for the address Bob I will send this out today.
|
|
|
|
Do you know where I might find an upgraded version of OSTERM I'm useing version
|
|
OSTERM.142 and was hopeing there was a newer version around or even a better
|
|
terminal program for the COCO.
|
|
|
|
As for Bruce I do not think the desert is much of a desert this time of year
|
|
more than likely he'll be playing in the mud as i believe he said it was the
|
|
rainy season over there.
|
|
|
|
Rick LaVallie
|
|
|
|
There is 1 Reply.
|
|
|
|
#: 20966 S6/Applications
|
|
21-May-95 14:07:21
|
|
Sb: #20961-Ved Upgrades
|
|
Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203
|
|
To: Rick LaVallie 76653,2244
|
|
|
|
>Do you know where I might find an upgraded version of OSTERM I'm useing
|
|
>version >OSTERM.142 and was hopeing there was a newer version around or even a
|
|
better >terminal program for the COCO.
|
|
|
|
You might want to ask Colin McKay. You can reach him at
|
|
cmckay@northx.isis.org.
|
|
|
|
#: 20963 S6/Applications
|
|
18-May-95 00:16:57
|
|
Sb: #Help needed
|
|
Fm: Ken Drexler 75126,3427
|
|
To: All
|
|
|
|
I have written an editor and word processor for OSK and am looking for several
|
|
people to try it out. The editor uses a terminal for input and, within the
|
|
limits of the terminal, is a what-you-see-is-what-you-get type editor. It can
|
|
edit documents where each line is independent of each other, such as computer
|
|
code as well as documents where the lines blend together into sentences and
|
|
paragraphs.
|
|
|
|
I have used the editor for over a year for writing programs (including the
|
|
editor) and letters and other documents on my Kix\30 using Wyse 150 terminals.
|
|
I would like to learn whether the program runs as well on other OSK machines
|
|
and terminals. (I do not know, for instance, how it runs on a MM1 machine or
|
|
with Kimtron or other terminals.) Also, writing an editor involves choices
|
|
about the user interface and the commands and single-key operators which are
|
|
available in it. I need feedback on whether the current features are useful,
|
|
whether they work as expected and whether any needed features have been
|
|
omitted.
|
|
|
|
If you have an OSK machine and are willing to take a test drive and tell me
|
|
what you think, send me email saying so.
|
|
|
|
Ken Drexler 75126,3427
|
|
|
|
|
|
There is 1 Reply.
|
|
|
|
#: 20965 S6/Applications
|
|
18-May-95 23:02:57
|
|
Sb: #20963-Help needed
|
|
Fm: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641
|
|
To: Ken Drexler 75126,3427 (X)
|
|
|
|
I have a CDS020 68020 system and will be glad to test the software on my system
|
|
|
|
#: 20967 S6/Applications
|
|
21-May-95 15:05:55
|
|
Sb: Zip Bug fixed(?)
|
|
Fm: David Breeding 72330,2051
|
|
To: all
|
|
|
|
Hey, everyone.
|
|
|
|
<I posted this over on Delphi, so some of you may see it twice >
|
|
|
|
I guess everyone remembers me crying a while back about ZIP messing up on the
|
|
directory structure. I kept getting occasional instances when the bitmap for
|
|
the file was not allocated.
|
|
|
|
The version I have is 1.0 Someone said it was buggy, but I have had pretty
|
|
good luck in unzipping (different program, of course), other files and have had
|
|
no complaints on files I've zipped.
|
|
|
|
I even grabbed a new zip (1.9) from chestnut, but _it_ seemed to do mess up
|
|
more often than 1.0.
|
|
|
|
I finally went in and began studying the code that came with zip, and I
|
|
_believe_ I have discovered the problem..
|
|
|
|
When all files are zipped, it has created a new temp file, usually with the
|
|
name _Z00*. On exit, it first deletes the original *.zip, if present. Next, it
|
|
goes to a function called link(). It attempts to overwrite the temp filename
|
|
with that of the destination *.zip name, inc the link count in the file
|
|
descriptor. (Otherwise, if any part fails, it comes back and does a straight
|
|
copy). In either case, it calls unlink() to delete the tempfile name. I found
|
|
that link() failed often, and the moderately rare cases when link() was
|
|
successful, were when the file structure got munged.
|
|
|
|
The problem:
|
|
|
|
I believe I've found it. In the file "osk.c", the main function that link()
|
|
uses is a multi-purpose one, and it optionally will get the sector size from
|
|
the device driver, or will read the disk. Two defines are used to control the
|
|
program flow. "FROM_DRIVER" and "FROM_DISK". My code defines FROM_DISK,
|
|
but... somehow, the author, down around line 750, when he wants to read the
|
|
disk, uses the switch #ifdef "FROM_MEDIA" instead of "FROM_DISK". When I
|
|
changed this to FROM_DISK, it appears in my test program that link() is working
|
|
much more often (most of the time(?)) and that the few times I have tried it,
|
|
it is now fixed... (I was a little chicken to try it on my HD <G> - but did)
|
|
|
|
If anyone is using zip, it might be well to fix this. Actually, I wonder if it
|
|
would be safest to just eliminate this link() call from the procedure, as I
|
|
wouldn't mind its doing a copy, as my main use for it is in small QWK replies
|
|
and large copies to floppy for MS-DOS systems is not all that frequent.
|
|
|
|
Is there someone who should be notified about this? I couldn't determine who
|
|
might be in charge of the OS-9 end of it..
|
|
|
|
-- David Breeding --
|
|
CompuServe : 72330,2051 Delphi : DBREEDING
|
|
*** Composed with InfoXpress/OSK Vr. 1.02 & VED Vr. 2.4.0 ***
|
|
|
|
#: 20937 S8/BBS Systems/TSMon
|
|
28-Apr-95 14:05:05
|
|
Sb: BBS Info wanted!
|
|
Fm: Rogelio Perea 72056,1204
|
|
To: ALL
|
|
|
|
Here's a cross-post from the CoCo_Echo (FidoNET):
|
|
|
|
- - - - - - - - - - - - - CUT HERE - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
|
|
|
|
From tvdogelphi.com
|
|
Date: Sun, 16 APR 95 23:44:13 -0500
|
|
From: "Jeffrey L. Hayes" <tvdogelphi.com>
|
|
Newsgroups: alt.bbs.internet
|
|
Subject: Tandy BBS questionnaire (please reply)
|
|
|
|
Do you run a BBS that supports Tandy computers, any model? If so, please
|
|
answer this questionnaire. I'm compiling a list of BBS's that support Tandy.
|
|
The list is to be published periodically on comp.sys.tandy and uploaded to FTP
|
|
sites. Download this questionnaire and fill it out with your word processor,
|
|
then email it to me at:
|
|
|
|
tvdogelphi.com
|
|
|
|
Please forward this questionnaire to any sysop you may know of who may wish to
|
|
reply. Replies can also be sent paper mail to:
|
|
|
|
Jeffrey L. Hayes
|
|
130 Forest Ave., Lot 1
|
|
Orono, Me. 04473
|
|
USA
|
|
|
|
Partially filled-out questionnaires are fine :-).
|
|
|
|
----------------------------------------------------------------------
|
|
|
|
TANDY BBS QUESTIONNAIRE
|
|
|
|
|
|
1. What is the name of your BBS?
|
|
|
|
|
|
2. In what city/town is the BBS located (include state, province, or country)?
|
|
|
|
3. What is the phone number (international format if outside the U.S. and
|
|
Canada)?
|
|
|
|
4. Who is the sysop?
|
|
|
|
5. What baud rates does the BBS support (e.g., 300-14400)?
|
|
6. What BBS software do you use (e.g., Wildcat, etc.)?
|
|
7. How much does the BBS charge? This includes upload/download ratios, if any.
|
|
Say as much as you want to here :-).
|
|
|
|
8. What models of Tandy computers does the BBS support? Check those that
|
|
apply.
|
|
|
|
[ ] Model I/II/III/IV/4D
|
|
|
|
[ ] Model 100/102/200
|
|
|
|
[ ] Model 16/6000 or other Tandy Xenix
|
|
|
|
[ ] Color Computer, any model
|
|
|
|
[ ] Tandy 2000
|
|
|
|
[ ] 1000-series
|
|
|
|
[ ] 2500-series
|
|
|
|
[ ] 3000-series
|
|
|
|
[ ] 4000-series
|
|
|
|
[ ] PC-compatible Tandy laptops/portables
|
|
|
|
[ ] Non-PC-compatible Tandy laptops/portables
|
|
|
|
[ ] Other/additional info. Include any information you want about what
|
|
kind of Tandy support you offer.
|
|
|
|
|
|
9. Is there anything you would like to add, some kind of advertising blurb for
|
|
your BBS, perhaps :-)? (Up to 20 lines, 70 spaces per line.)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Thanks for your reply.
|
|
|
|
|
|
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - CUT HERE - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
|
|
|
|
end of crosspost....
|
|
|
|
|
|
#: 20941 S9/Utilities
|
|
04-May-95 13:30:02
|
|
Sb: network tar ?
|
|
Fm: Marc Tritschler 100344,2706
|
|
To: all
|
|
|
|
I am an OS9/68K user running 4 VME based development systems (with four
|
|
separate hard drives). The systems are networked using OS9/INTERNET but I dont
|
|
have NFS. Hence when I backup my drives I have to manually connect the tape
|
|
streamer onto the SCSI port of each system in turn and use tar locally.
|
|
|
|
Is there any tar type utilities out there that I can use to allow me to leave
|
|
the tape streamer on one system only and backup across the network ?
|
|
From my (very limited) understanding of UNIX utilities I think I am looking for
|
|
something similar to tar running locally and a utility called rmt to run on the
|
|
machine with the streamer.
|
|
|
|
Thanks in advance for any responses, Marc.
|
|
|
|
#: 20952 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
|
|
12-May-95 16:57:04
|
|
Sb: #shellplus2.2a
|
|
Fm: Rick LaVallie 76653,2244
|
|
To: Curtis Boyle/ 71310,1271
|
|
|
|
Curtis , Hi My name is Rick LaVallie I've just downloaded shell2.2a and
|
|
installed it .the first thing i've noticed is that the wildcards are defaulted
|
|
off. Now while reading through some old messages concerning this i see where
|
|
you wrote to Ian Hodgson that the wildcarding offsets are at $4FA and should be
|
|
$27 default off $26 default on. now when I ded shell2.2a at offset $4Fa I find
|
|
that it is set at $C9 now I am wondering if this right if I have a differend
|
|
version or what?
|
|
|
|
Please check this address again for me thanks
|
|
|
|
A new old COCO user -Rick LaVallie-
|
|
|
|
There is 1 Reply.
|
|
|
|
#: 20956 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
|
|
13-May-95 17:38:23
|
|
Sb: #20952-#shellplus2.2a
|
|
Fm: David Breeding 72330,2051
|
|
To: Rick LaVallie 76653,2244 (X)
|
|
|
|
> Curtis , Hi My name is Rick LaVallie I've just downloaded shell2.2a and
|
|
> installed it .the first thing i've noticed is that the wildcards are
|
|
> defaulted off.
|
|
|
|
Rick,
|
|
|
|
Just a note here. Of course, I suppose it's just a matter of "to each his own"
|
|
but I never did turn wildcarding on. You can turn it on at any time by
|
|
preceding the command line with a colon (or off this way if you have it
|
|
defaulted to on). Many utilities and apps use wildcarding in their parameters,
|
|
and if you use them with the shell also recognizing it and you can get some
|
|
problems; it seems more this way than if you don't have it.
|
|
|
|
When you try wildcarding and forget the colon and about all that happens is
|
|
that you get error 215, or the like and you can go back and do it right. If you
|
|
have wildcarding on, something wrong might happen and you might not notice it.
|
|
|
|
You can do whatever you like, but you might try it defaulted off and see how
|
|
you like it.
|
|
|
|
-- David Breeding --
|
|
CompuServe : 72330,2051 Delphi : DBREEDING
|
|
*** Composed with InfoXpress/OSK Vr. 1.02 & VED Vr. 2.4.0 ***
|
|
|
|
There is 1 Reply.
|
|
|
|
#: 20958 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
|
|
15-May-95 07:57:50
|
|
Sb: #20956-#shellplus2.2a
|
|
Fm: Rick LaVallie 76653,2244
|
|
To: David Breeding 72330,2051 (X)
|
|
|
|
Dave. Thanks for the tip I'll give it a try for a while and see if I like it.
|
|
I've been useing shellplus2.1 for a long time with wildcards on and have not
|
|
had any problems but i'll give it a try with them off.
|
|
|
|
May be you know why when I EXIT from TSWORD the menu fmt for TSEDIT my vdg
|
|
screen locks up this has only started since I have installed
|
|
Shellplus2.2a.None of the windows lock up and as soon as I kill the process
|
|
the VDG screen comes back to life. Thanks in advance for any advice you can
|
|
give.
|
|
|
|
Rick LaVallie
|
|
|
|
There is 1 Reply.
|
|
|
|
#: 20962 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
|
|
17-May-95 19:13:25
|
|
Sb: #20958-shellplus2.2a
|
|
Fm: David Breeding 72330,2051
|
|
To: Rick LaVallie 76653,2244 (X)
|
|
|
|
> Dave. Thanks for the tip I'll give it a try for a while and see if I like
|
|
> it. I've been useing shellplus2.1 for a long time with wildcards on and
|
|
> have not had any problems but i'll give it a try with them off.
|
|
|
|
I just never went to the trouble of turning it on, and just thought it would be
|
|
easier this way. Either way should be good. Of course, if you are used to it
|
|
turned on, it might be hard to get used to it the other way. While I was using
|
|
the Coco, I _normally_ could remember to hit the colon when needed, but now,
|
|
after being used to wildcarding all the time in OSK, when I go back to the
|
|
coco, I'm always forgetting..
|
|
|
|
> May be you know why when I EXIT from TSWORD the menu fmt for TSEDIT my
|
|
> vdg screen locks up this has only started since I have installed
|
|
> Shellplus2.2a.None of the windows lock up and as soon as I kill the
|
|
> process the VDG screen comes back to life.
|
|
|
|
It didn't do this with shell+2.1? My guess would be that it is in the way it
|
|
is blocking the signals.. If you call this window from another window, try
|
|
going back to that parent window and doing either "dir" or "procs". If this
|
|
unlocks it, this would be the cause, IMO.. I'm not very well versed on how the
|
|
system works at that level, but I would give this a try. I know that often,
|
|
when a process died, often you would see "DEAD" in the process name for procs
|
|
(or proc, maybe), till you did this.. It seemed that only certain commands
|
|
would erase this, and the two above would, if I remember correctly.
|
|
|
|
-- David Breeding --
|
|
CompuServe : 72330,2051 Delphi : DBREEDING
|
|
*** Composed with InfoXpress/OSK Vr. 1.02 & VED Vr. 2.4.0 ***
|
|
|
|
#: 20959 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
|
|
15-May-95 22:11:22
|
|
Sb: #20897-Install Intrpt Handler
|
|
Fm: Jost Eberbach 73502,2041
|
|
To: Taji S. Abraham 76760,2232
|
|
|
|
Taji,
|
|
|
|
did the code I sent you abouy the ISRs work?
|
|
|
|
Jost
|
|
|
|
#: 20932 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
|
|
26-Apr-95 20:24:02
|
|
Sb: #20921-#Help with VG Machines!
|
|
Fm: Jost Eberbach 73502,2041
|
|
To: Jesus Lazaro 100255,504 (X)
|
|
|
|
Jesus,
|
|
|
|
>> These machines use OS-9 and we need to know how it works<<
|
|
|
|
Seems you hace real problem here. Have you considered hiring a consultant who
|
|
is knowledgable about OS-9? Actually, the people who you bought those machines
|
|
from should be able to help you out...
|
|
|
|
Joey
|
|
|
|
There is 1 Reply.
|
|
|
|
#: 20938 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
|
|
28-Apr-95 16:40:25
|
|
Sb: #20932-Help with VG Machines!
|
|
Fm: Jesus Lazaro 100255,504
|
|
To: Jost Eberbach 73502,2041 (X)
|
|
|
|
Jost,
|
|
|
|
Thanks a million for your help, but... I don't know any expert in OS-9 here in
|
|
Spain. Do you know anoybody?
|
|
|
|
Thanks again.
|
|
|
|
Jesus Lazaro
|
|
Madrid, Spain
|
|
|
|
#: 20943 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
|
|
05-May-95 17:59:12
|
|
Sb: Help with VG Machines!
|
|
Fm: Jesus Lazaro 100255,504
|
|
To: Jost Eberbach 73502,2041 (X)
|
|
|
|
Jost,
|
|
|
|
Thanks again for your help. Our Tech Department is working very hard and they
|
|
have some solutions, so we hope to do all work in a couple of weeks.
|
|
|
|
Thanks a million.
|
|
|
|
Jesus
|
|
|
|
#: 20923 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
|
|
25-Apr-95 06:16:54
|
|
Sb: #Alarms 'disappearing'
|
|
Fm: Ian J Shearer 100410,2733
|
|
To: all
|
|
|
|
I appear to have a problem with OS-9 alarms 'disappearing'. After a
|
|
successfull call to alm_set() I get no signal returned when the alarm expires.
|
|
Also, I have a utility that shows what the system is up to, including a list of
|
|
active alarms. The alarm just set doesn't show up, as if it was never
|
|
successfully set. The function call, however, returns a valid alarm id.
|
|
|
|
Has anyone else experienced a problem like this? The same code can work for
|
|
10's of iterations, then fail.
|
|
|
|
I'm using v2.4.4 of OS-9 and Ultra 'C' v1.1. I've tried old and new-style
|
|
function calls, both with the same effect.
|
|
|
|
Like all itermittent problems, this is proving a real pain. (It took half a
|
|
day to get the system to misbehave while I was monitoring it.) Any help VERY
|
|
welcome.
|
|
|
|
There is 1 Reply.
|
|
|
|
#: 20924 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
|
|
25-Apr-95 07:47:39
|
|
Sb: #20923-#Alarms 'disappearing'
|
|
Fm: Joachim Terasa 100421,2472
|
|
To: Ian J Shearer 100410,2733 (X)
|
|
|
|
>> I appear to have a problem with OS-9 alarms 'disappearing'. <<
|
|
|
|
What you are talking about seems to be a similar problem I had 2 years ago
|
|
also with OS-9 2.4. In my case it was not an alarm problem rather than a
|
|
problem of lost signals.
|
|
My application had to wait for characters from several pipes. So each pipe was
|
|
set up with a signal. In some very rare cases it happened that two signals were
|
|
generated within a very short time. That means, the second signal appeared
|
|
right in the moment when the process was leaving the sleep(0). The mechanism as
|
|
shown in the examples that store the signal number in a global variable inside
|
|
the signal handler and the evaluates it inside the process was not usable any
|
|
more. Do you see something you can use?
|
|
|
|
Jochen
|
|
|
|
|
|
-Joachim Terasa
|
|
|
|
|
|
There are 2 Replies.
|
|
|
|
#: 20926 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
|
|
25-Apr-95 14:50:59
|
|
Sb: #20924-#Alarms 'disappearing'
|
|
Fm: Ian J Shearer 100410,2733
|
|
To: Joachim Terasa 100421,2472 (X)
|
|
|
|
Thanks for the advice, but I think I'm seeing something different. Two
|
|
reasons; first, the utility that shows what is happening in the system doesn't
|
|
recognise that the alarm is ever being set. Second, I've tried putting a
|
|
printf() in the signal handler (not good practice, but really useful for
|
|
debugging) and this doesn't see the signal ever arriving.
|
|
|
|
I'm told that it is impossible for OS-9 to 'drop' a signal. If one is sent it
|
|
is ALWAYS seen by the signal handler. The only way to loose the information is
|
|
by using the normal technique of setting a global variable, then finding that
|
|
you've over-written it before it is processed. This is the problem you saw.
|
|
|
|
If my reasoning is correct the signal never gets to the process because the
|
|
alarm isn't correctly set. Does this make sense??
|
|
|
|
Thanks anyway; any more advice gratefully received.
|
|
|
|
There is 1 Reply.
|
|
|
|
#: 20927 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
|
|
25-Apr-95 20:15:21
|
|
Sb: #20926-#Alarms 'disappearing'
|
|
Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227
|
|
To: Ian J Shearer 100410,2733 (X)
|
|
|
|
Hi Ian,
|
|
|
|
How about posting a sample of the code you're using to set the alarm and to
|
|
process it? Perhaps someone here will notice something.
|
|
|
|
best - kev
|
|
|
|
There is 1 Reply.
|
|
|
|
#: 20931 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
|
|
26-Apr-95 13:40:00
|
|
Sb: #20927-Alarms 'disappearing'
|
|
Fm: Ian J Shearer 100410,2733
|
|
To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X)
|
|
|
|
Kev
|
|
|
|
The code is so trivial there's not a lot to say about it; it's shown below. As
|
|
I said initially, it DOES work for many iterations before a failure occurs.
|
|
|
|
Two functions are shown. The first sets the timer going, the second is the
|
|
signal handler. The function setTimer() is just a wrapper for the OS-9
|
|
function call. The handler does the usual of setting a global variable and
|
|
masking out further signals until this one is dealt with. (The printf
|
|
statement was included when I first saw the problem.) If you can see anything
|
|
wrong with this I'd love to know; it appears to be so simple it's hard to see
|
|
where it can fail.
|
|
|
|
Ian.
|
|
|
|
|
|
/*****************************************************************************/
|
|
int setTimer(int i_Event, int i_Time)
|
|
/*****************************************************************************
|
|
* Sets an OS-9 alarm going to generate a signal after the specified time.
|
|
*
|
|
* Inputs: i_Event signal/event to be generated
|
|
* i_Time time interval (in 1/10 of a sec.) before
|
|
* signal generated
|
|
*
|
|
* Returns: -1 if an error occurs
|
|
* 0 else
|
|
*****************************************************************************/
|
|
{
|
|
register int i = 0;
|
|
int i_err,
|
|
i_rval,
|
|
i_AlarmID;
|
|
/*
|
|
* Set an OS-9 alarm for the desired signal/time
|
|
*/
|
|
if ((i_err = _os_alarm_set(&i_AlarmID, i_Event, ALM_TIME(i_Time))) !=
|
|
0)
|
|
{
|
|
err_report(i_err,__LINE__,__FILE__);
|
|
i_rval = -1;
|
|
}
|
|
|
|
return i_rval;
|
|
}
|
|
|
|
/*****************************************************************************/
|
|
void handler(int i_signo)
|
|
/*****************************************************************************
|
|
*OS-9 signal handler. If the received signal is SIGQUIT, set flag to
|
|
*abort process.
|
|
*
|
|
* Inputs: i_signo OS-9 signal received
|
|
*
|
|
* Returns: ---
|
|
*
|
|
*****************************************************************************/
|
|
{
|
|
switch (i_signo)
|
|
{
|
|
case SIGQUIT:
|
|
i_ProzessEndeFlag = TRUE;
|
|
break;
|
|
case SIG_SIMTRACE:
|
|
i_Trace = TRUE;
|
|
break;
|
|
default:
|
|
printf("<<%d>>",i_signo);
|
|
fflush(NULL);
|
|
e_Event = (BiteEvent)i_signo;
|
|
sigmask(TRUE);
|
|
break;
|
|
}
|
|
}
|
|
|
|
#: 20928 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
|
|
26-Apr-95 03:00:48
|
|
Sb: #20924-#Alarms 'disappearing'
|
|
Fm: Ian J Shearer 100410,2733
|
|
To: Joachim Terasa 100421,2472 (X)
|
|
|
|
Another thought about the situation you describe. Normally, you would call
|
|
sigmask(1) from within the signal handler routine to make sure that signals are
|
|
masked out until the next time you reach the sleep(0) statement. This SHOULD
|
|
make sure that if two signals arrive in quick succession the second one doesn't
|
|
get lost. Were you doing this?
|
|
|
|
There is 1 Reply.
|
|
|
|
#: 20929 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
|
|
26-Apr-95 04:17:50
|
|
Sb: #20928-#Alarms 'disappearing'
|
|
Fm: Joachim Terasa 100421,2472
|
|
To: Ian J Shearer 100410,2733 (X)
|
|
|
|
I solved the problem exactly this way. But don't be sure that the sleep(0) is
|
|
the only sleep in your software. There are several system calls, especially
|
|
i/o-services including sleeps implicitly. So it's really not trivial to protect
|
|
your sleep/signal-mechanisms from side effects. And it is getting chaotic if
|
|
you are not only using sleep/signal but additionally events in one process!
|
|
|
|
-Joachim Terasa
|
|
|
|
|
|
There is 1 Reply.
|
|
|
|
#: 20930 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
|
|
26-Apr-95 13:22:30
|
|
Sb: #20929-#Alarms 'disappearing'
|
|
Fm: Ian J Shearer 100410,2733
|
|
To: Joachim Terasa 100421,2472 (X)
|
|
|
|
I am using events as well. What has surprised me, is that the problem still
|
|
occurs if I reorganise my function calls to make sure that setting an alarm is
|
|
the last thing I do before sleeping. If it wasn't for this I'd believe that
|
|
ev_wait() or some such was waking up without the signal being fully processed.
|
|
|
|
Ian
|
|
|
|
There is 1 Reply.
|
|
|
|
#: 20933 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
|
|
27-Apr-95 02:39:31
|
|
Sb: #20930-#Alarms 'disappearing'
|
|
Fm: Joachim Terasa 100421,2472
|
|
To: Ian J Shearer 100410,2733 (X)
|
|
|
|
>> If it wasn't for this I'd believe that ev_wait() or some such was waking
|
|
up without the signal being fully processed. <<
|
|
|
|
Hanging on an _ev_wait() the function will awake with a signal, the signal
|
|
will be completely processed. You would have to check if the event condition is
|
|
really true after the _ev_wait. Hanging on a sleep() an event will not affect
|
|
your program.
|
|
|
|
Jochen
|
|
|
|
-Joachim Terasa
|
|
|
|
|
|
There is 1 Reply.
|
|
|
|
#: 20968 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
|
|
24-May-95 13:22:10
|
|
Sb: #20933-#Alarms 'disappearing'
|
|
Fm: Ian J Shearer 100410,2733
|
|
To: Joachim Terasa 100421,2472 (X)
|
|
|
|
If you're interested, I found the cause of my problem. If you delete an alarm
|
|
at the same time as it expires, it is possible to accidentally delete a
|
|
completely different alarm from another process. It goes something like this;
|
|
|
|
Task A starts to delete an alarm
|
|
The alarm being deleted expires
|
|
A task/process switch occurs
|
|
Task B creates a new alarm, which uses the old 'slot' of the
|
|
task A alarm
|
|
Task A completes deleting the alarm, but gets the new alarm
|
|
from task B by mistake
|
|
|
|
This is something to do with OS-9 marking an alarm 'slot' as free before it
|
|
truely is. Version 3.0 gives a partial solution, since you can prevent a task
|
|
from deleting alarms with other owner IDs; if you spawned all the tasks from
|
|
one parent, as I did, this won't help.
|
|
|
|
The workaround is to use periodic (repeating) alarms, then kill them in
|
|
response to the first signal they generate. In other words, the ONLY safe way
|
|
to use alarms is to avoid single-shot alarms like the plague. Disappointing
|
|
but true.
|
|
|
|
There are 2 Replies.
|
|
|
|
#: 20970 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
|
|
26-May-95 02:28:54
|
|
Sb: #20968-Alarms 'disappearing'
|
|
Fm: Joachim Terasa 100421,2472
|
|
To: Ian J Shearer 100410,2733 (X)
|
|
|
|
>> In other words, the ONLY safe way to use alarms is to avoid single-shot
|
|
alarms like the plague. <<
|
|
|
|
Thanks very much for this info. I'll keep it in mind!
|
|
|
|
-Joachim Terasa
|
|
|
|
|
|
#: 20976 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
|
|
31-May-95 17:24:34
|
|
Sb: #20968-Alarms 'disappearing'
|
|
Fm: Joerg Hofstetter 100112,2561
|
|
To: Ian J Shearer 100410,2733
|
|
|
|
I made the same experience with OS-9 alarms: Single-Shot alarms are sometimes
|
|
disappearing. I always use alm_cycle().
|
|
It's great that you found an explanation. Thank you.
|
|
I hope Microware is also reading .....
|
|
|
|
#: 20944 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
|
|
08-May-95 15:59:45
|
|
Sb: #HP Jet Direct Net-Interf
|
|
Fm: Alptekin Aydogan 100527,324
|
|
To: all
|
|
|
|
Who has experience with HP Jet Direct EX Network Interface for printers ? I'm
|
|
using OS9 Ver. 2.4 with TCP-IP + NFS and would like to connect my
|
|
OS9-developing system to a HP Deskjet-Printer which has this interface.
|
|
|
|
There is 1 Reply.
|
|
|
|
#: 20955 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
|
|
13-May-95 13:54:20
|
|
Sb: #20944-HP Jet Direct Net-Interf
|
|
Fm: Joachim Terasa 100421,2472
|
|
To: Alptekin Aydogan 100527,324 (X)
|
|
|
|
Hi,
|
|
|
|
>> Who has experience with HP Jet Direct EX Network Interface for printers ?
|
|
<<
|
|
|
|
Would also be helpfully for me! If you've found a solution - let me know.
|
|
Because it is a thin based on TCP/IP-sockets it may be portable. I will also
|
|
keep my eyes open!
|
|
|
|
Jochen
|
|
|
|
-Joachim Terasa
|
|
|
|
|
|
#: 20947 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
|
|
11-May-95 18:24:45
|
|
Sb: #How to link I2C to OS-9
|
|
Fm: Martin Kreutzer 100020,2550
|
|
To: all
|
|
|
|
I have to port an OS-9 to a target system that has some devices
|
|
on a I2C-Bus (driven by a PCF8584).
|
|
Now I wonder what`s the "OS-9-like" way to link I2C to the System.
|
|
|
|
I2C has commands like "write 2 bytes, then read 5 bytes answer"
|
|
I see three ways to handle this:
|
|
1) leave the I/O System alone and make a system-state module to
|
|
handle I2C.
|
|
2) use the I/O System. Delay write requests until I get the
|
|
corresponding read request. I see some problems to keep
|
|
the whole procedure atomic. Furthermore I think
|
|
I have to write a new filemanager, because I need the sizes
|
|
of the I/O requests in the device drivers.
|
|
3) use the I/O System but handle the requests in SetStat calls.
|
|
If I handle pure reads and writes with SetStats too, I can
|
|
connect the device driver to a standard Filemanager (e.g. SCF).
|
|
|
|
Right now I prefer Version 3 but I`m open to suggestions.
|
|
Please give me your opinion..
|
|
|
|
Martin Kreutzer
|
|
|
|
There are 3 Replies.
|
|
|
|
#: 20948 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
|
|
11-May-95 19:58:35
|
|
Sb: #20947-How to link I2C to OS-9
|
|
Fm: Jost Eberbach 73502,2041
|
|
To: Martin Kreutzer 100020,2550 (X)
|
|
|
|
Martin,
|
|
|
|
If I were to do that, I would definitely prefer version 1, >>leave the I/O
|
|
System alone and make a system-state module to handle I2C.<<
|
|
|
|
If you do it yourself, you can at least be sure, that OS-9 doesn't mess with
|
|
your data! It also seems to be the simplest methods. Of course, the other
|
|
versions are more challenging...
|
|
|
|
I have broken my head over OS-9 too much I guess, I really try not to use it at
|
|
all if possible. I do all my hardware related stuff in system state modules
|
|
and/or ISRs, I don't bother to try and write an OS-9 driver etc.
|
|
|
|
Just my opinion...
|
|
|
|
|
|
Jost
|
|
|
|
#: 20949 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
|
|
12-May-95 01:38:19
|
|
Sb: #20947-How to link I2C to OS-9
|
|
Fm: Joachim Terasa 100421,2472
|
|
To: Martin Kreutzer 100020,2550 (X)
|
|
|
|
>> Please give me your opinion.. <<
|
|
|
|
I also prefer version 3, especially if you don't have to develop a device
|
|
driver from the scratch, but just have to modify something existing. If you are
|
|
not experienced in writing OS-9 device drivers version 1 would be the better
|
|
way.
|
|
|
|
Jochen
|
|
|
|
-Joachim Terasa
|
|
|
|
|
|
#: 20953 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
|
|
12-May-95 21:40:36
|
|
Sb: #20947-How to link I2C to OS-9
|
|
Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203
|
|
To: Martin Kreutzer 100020,2550 (X)
|
|
|
|
You might want to contact Kevin Darling on this forum...I believe he wrote (or
|
|
started to write???) a driver for the i2c chip on the mm/1. Kevin?
|
|
|
|
#: 20964 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
|
|
18-May-95 13:23:34
|
|
Sb: #buffers
|
|
Fm: LARRY OLSON 72227,3467
|
|
To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X)
|
|
|
|
Kevin,
|
|
|
|
I have a question about Kwindows get/put buffers, that I hope you could
|
|
help me with.
|
|
It concerns allocating memory for the get/put buffers.
|
|
|
|
How do I allocate memory for an entire GROUP.
|
|
|
|
I know of the 1B 29 GRP BUF HCT LCT , function, but I have about 50
|
|
separate object buffers under 1 group(P_ID) number. These buffers vary in size
|
|
from 3 x 3 to 15 x 10. Do I need to define each one, or is there a way to
|
|
allocate memory for the entire GROUP ? Does the function work like KILBUF, where using 0 for the buffer number applies to all buffers in
|
|
the GROUP ?
|
|
I thought of splitting some of the buffers off into another GROUP, like
|
|
(P_ID + 1) but wouldn't you then run the risk of hitting the GROUP number of
|
|
another process
|
|
|
|
I hope you can set me straight,
|
|
|
|
Larry
|
|
|
|
There is 1 Reply.
|
|
|
|
#: 20971 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
|
|
28-May-95 13:17:42
|
|
Sb: #20964-#buffers
|
|
Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227
|
|
To: LARRY OLSON 72227,3467 (X)
|
|
|
|
Hi Larry,
|
|
|
|
Unfortunately, there isn't a way to allocate memory for a group of buffers
|
|
ahead of time. The internal system has to know where each "object" will begin
|
|
so it can make better decisions about storing it.
|
|
|
|
If you run out of buffers, some people use P_ID+128, although that may not be
|
|
safe on everyone's system.
|
|
|
|
best - kev
|
|
|
|
There is 1 Reply.
|
|
|
|
#: 20975 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
|
|
31-May-95 12:47:48
|
|
Sb: #20971-buffers
|
|
Fm: LARRY OLSON 72227,3467
|
|
To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X)
|
|
|
|
|
|
> Unfortunately, there isn't a way to allocate memory for a group of
|
|
> buffers ahead of time. The internal system has to know where each
|
|
> "object" will begin so it can make better decisions about storing it.
|
|
>
|
|
> If you run out of buffers, some people use P_ID+128, although that may not
|
|
> be safe on everyone's system.
|
|
|
|
Kevin,
|
|
Thanks, I'll keep that P_id + 128 in mind. What brought the question
|
|
up was as usual, another dumb mistake of mine. I kept getting the error
|
|
message - can't allocate memory -, when I was trying to run this program and
|
|
I thought the problem was in allocating memory for the GET/PUT buffers. I had
|
|
forgotten that I had changed another part of the program, that was loading a
|
|
sound file. Well now the sound file wasn't where the program thought it was
|
|
and that was where the program kicked out the -can't allocate memory- error.
|
|
Ok, I'll get back to playing with these GET/PUT buffers again, I havn't
|
|
got it figured out completely yet but the GET appears to be sensitive about
|
|
where the object is on the screen, because some objects when they are later
|
|
put to the screen, the rightmost pixels of the object are missing. I thought
|
|
I had it figured out by drawing the objects so that they fall on the 8 bit
|
|
boundries, and for some of the objects this worked, but not for all.
|
|
|
|
Thanks again Kevin
|
|
larry
|
|
|
|
#: 20973 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
|
|
30-May-95 13:22:57
|
|
Sb: #Alarms 'disappearing'
|
|
Fm: Paul N. Leonard 72477,774
|
|
To: 100421,2472 (X)
|
|
|
|
I just now saw your messages about disapearing alarms. It is true that
|
|
you can unintentionally delete an alarm but it is definitely avoidable.
|
|
Rather than use the sequence sited in your messages use the sequence
|
|
shown below and you won't have any problems. You must be consistent,
|
|
however, because if you do it incorrectly in one place, you are back
|
|
where you started.
|
|
|
|
For each alarm that is created set a unique flag to indicate it is
|
|
active.
|
|
|
|
When the alarm handler receives that alarm it clears the proper flag
|
|
to indicate the alarm has fired.
|
|
|
|
When it comes time to delete an alarm set the signal mask to prevent
|
|
alarms from firing.
|
|
|
|
Check the status of the flag.
|
|
If it is still set, then it has not fired and you can safely delete
|
|
the alarm and clear the flag.
|
|
|
|
If it is clear, then there is no need to clear the alarm or flag
|
|
because it has already fired.
|
|
|
|
Clear the signal mask so signals can be received again.
|
|
|
|
We are using this scheme on our product which can have up to 24 tasks
|
|
running at one time of which 10 are creating and deleting alarms a great
|
|
deal of the time. We had the same problem until we came up with this
|
|
solution and it hasn't been a problem since.
|
|
|
|
Hope this helps.
|
|
|
|
Paul N. Leonard
|
|
|
|
|
|
There is 1 Reply.
|
|
|
|
#: 20974 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
|
|
30-May-95 14:10:52
|
|
Sb: #20973-Alarms 'disappearing'
|
|
Fm: Ian J Shearer 100410,2733
|
|
To: Paul N. Leonard 72477,774 (X)
|
|
|
|
Paul,
|
|
|
|
Thanks for the tip; I see how it works. What you're doing is basically
|
|
compensating for a weakness in OS-9; have you any idea why there is no internal
|
|
mechanism for preventing the problem? Microware are obviously aware of the
|
|
difficulty. Unfortunately the 'fix' in Version 3.0 is of very limited value.
|
|
|
|
Ian
|
|
|
|
Press <CR> !> |