1208 lines
48 KiB
Plaintext
1208 lines
48 KiB
Plaintext
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84388 26-DEC 14:40 General Information
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RE: UUCP 5.2 for OSK (Re: Msg 84241)
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From: MRGOOD To: BOISY (NR)
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Boisy,
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I see the uud utils you uploaded for OSK have a module called FPU.
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Does it have to be made part of the bootfile, or can I just load
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it when needed?
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Hugo
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-*-
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84389 26-DEC 15:04 General Information
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RE: MM/1 GWindows (Re: Msg 84386)
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From: COLORSYSTEMS To: RANDYKWILSON
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The latest releases of WindIO have included device descriptors for devices
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/w9-/w15.
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------------------------------------
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Zack C Sessions
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ColorSystems
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"I am Homer of Borg, prepare to be assimi ... OOOOHHH, DOUGHNUTS!"
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-*-
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84390 26-DEC 15:11 General Information
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RE: MM/1 GWindows (Re: Msg 84382)
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From: EDELMAR To: MREGC
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Eric,
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> 1. The check won't be cashed until no more than 2 weeks before shipping.
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Checks will be deposited and credit cards will be processed when 20 orders
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are received. I estimate it will take 2 to 3 months to do the port. Ship-
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ments will be made immediately thereafter.
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> 2. I'll be given at least 2 weeks notice before the check is cashed, or the
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> credit card charged.
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Because the time that has elapsed, I will confirm all orders prior to doing
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the above. I see no problem if anyone requires a little time to insure
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credit card or bank balances are in order.
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Ed Gresick - DELMAR CO
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-*-
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84391 26-DEC 16:55 General Information
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RE: MM/1 GWindows (Re: Msg 84387)
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From: RANDYKWILSON To: EDELMAR
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Ed,
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I think things are looking up here. While this all may be a moot point, not
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worthy of more thought investment until the port status is assured, I'm
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already thinking on the possibilitiesof using KWin to run multiple GWin
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sessions. :>
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>The VSC chip appears to be unique in that it
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>uses system memory and can dynamically allocate the necessary video memory.
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>Most gfx chip sets do allow a limited amount of this but only with video
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>memory and only in the lower res and text modes. Thus, by switching pages
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>or offsets (or whatever the mechanism is) you can view other portions of
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>video memory. But I think the way the VSC chip does it is much better.
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Yes, the VSC, like the CoCo's gime, was designed to power a "state of the
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art" game machine. :>
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But there is a limit in how much memory the VSC can access. The basic chip
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design limits it to 1.5meg. In the MM/1, it can access all the memory on
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the motherboard, 1meg. To insure that this 1meg remains available for
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video if at all possible, it is defined by init as "colored" memory. The
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highest res window, the one most likely used with GWin (768x480x16), eats
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up 180K for the screen. All backing-store buffers should be allocated out
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of normal memory.
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>When there is a separate console driver, a separate startup file (usually
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>called 'startup.gw') can be used. It will load the drivers, descriptors,
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>and other modules necessary for G-WINDOWS. The first application to use
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>G-WINDOWS will initialize G-WINDOWS (actually the drivers). This is usually
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>DESKTOP and/or the first shell window. But, it can be done other ways.
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Right now, I'm picturing something a little more involved than a shell
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script. Something more on the lines of SysGo/TSMon, without the restart
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capability. It would grab a KWin "device", change it to the needed format,
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open the GWin device, pass the needed info about the Kwin screen, fork off
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the first GWin app, then wait. The reason for the fork/wait rather than a
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chain is to keep the path to the Kwin device open so that the GWin drivers
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can get keyboard data. This idea could be subject to minor revision as more
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data becomes available. :>
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>All-in-all, it appears that most, if not all, the problems associated with
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>the display are resolvable - but you did say something about the pallete
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>controller. I think K-Windows does this with hardware. G-WINDOWS can do
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>this with software - I think the TC-70 port did it with software since it
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>did not have a hardware palette controller. Will require some investigation.
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Actually, The MM/1-Kwindows uses both software and hardware for color
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control. The MM/1 has a Brooktree palette controller, which the TC-70 did
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not. This controller has 256 "slots", of which each can hold one of 16.7m
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color choices. For the screen resolutions we'll be dealing with here, the
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MM/1 uses the first 16 slots. To use any of these 16 slots, you store the
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appropriate bit pattern in the video memory. This is totally software, and
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KWin does not need to know about it. But, if you want to change the color
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of a given slot (say the gif being viewed requires a really putrid green),
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you'll need to reset the Brooktree. This is best done through Kwin. Kwin
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reloads the Brooktree every screen change, and so would need to know the
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palette you have chosen. If the GWin port uses only the default 16 colors,
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then there is absolutely no problem.
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>I admit I was sorry to read you agreed that the keyboard/mouse may be the
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>major stumbling block. I was hoping you'd tell me I was making a mountain
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>out of a mole hill <g>. But so far, it doesn't necessarily appear to be
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>an insurmountable problem. Just going to take a lot of work resolving it.
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>One thing I don't want to do is patch either windio and associated modules
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>or wfm and it's associated modules. To my thinking, that is a no-no.
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I agree that this shouldn't depend on hacks to the base GWin system, or patches
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to KWin. However, BlackHawk has stated that KWin is undergoing an upgrade
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as we speak. Maybe a little cross-communication can minimize the problems
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with the mouse and keyboard. It wouldn't take much, and most of the hoped-
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for changes have been addressed in complaints about Kwin already.
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I think that it can be done, and won't be any more work than having to
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write the drivers to totally replace KWin as the console.
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Randy
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-*-
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84392 26-DEC 20:51 General Information
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RE: MM/1 GWindows (Re: Msg 84342)
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From: DSRTFOX To: EMTWO
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I have a copy of Ed's demo manual AND of the GESPAC color brochure describing
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G-Windows. These two items, along with following some conversation here, and a
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conversation with Steve Adams, allowed me to write an informative article on
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G-Windows, and to easi
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ly see WHY industrial programmers like it so much.
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-*-
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84396 27-DEC 02:41 General Information
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RE: MM/1 GWindows (Re: Msg 84390)
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From: MREGC To: EDELMAR
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> Checks will be deposited and credit cards will be processed when 20 orders
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> are received. I estimate it will take 2 to 3 months to do the port.
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I can understand that, considering the situation, you would want to have
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money in-hand before even starting the port, however, I find it hard to
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juistify holding up $200 for a period of time estimated to be 2 to 3 months,
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possibly longer, when there are a number of equally important products that
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the money could be spent on with a much faster return.
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It would seem to me to be more reasonable to charge a non-refundable
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deposit of, say, $50 during the programming period, and then charge the rest
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once the port was finished.
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...Eric...
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-*-
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84397 27-DEC 03:17 General Information
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RE: MM/1 GWindows (Re: Msg 84389)
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From: KSCALES To: COLORSYSTEMS
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Hi, Zack -
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> The latest releases of WindIO have included device descriptors for
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> devices /w9-/w15.
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That's good... but does it now return an appropriate error if an application
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tries to open a window when there is insufficient contiguous memory
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remaining or any other error occurs? (Of course, this needs to ripple
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into cgfx.l, too.) This is a real gotcha for K-Windows programmers.
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Typical K-Windows screens require 66,560 (80x26x16) to 184,320 (96x60x16)
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bytes in the 1-meg video memory area (1.5M with an unpublished hack), which
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can quickly get used.
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The limited number of window descriptors affected some design decisions
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for KVed, so it is nice to see that limit increased, though.
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BTW, does the latest 68340-Windio (V51?) restore the pushbuttons, so you
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can use KVed now?
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Cheers... / Ken
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--------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Ken Scales Delphi:KSCALES Internet:kscales@delphi.com CIS:74646,2237
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-*-
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84398 27-DEC 03:18 General Information
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RE: MM/1 GWindows (Re: Msg 84391)
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From: KSCALES To: RANDYKWILSON
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Hi, Randy -
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Your series of postings has prompted me to post excerpts from a private
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message I sent to Ed Gresick last July, just before his initial offer to
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port G-Windows expired.
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>- KWindows on the MM/1 provides a lot more of the hardware support than
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> just the screen display. It also handles the mouse, keyboard, and sound
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> (record and playback). For G-Windows to be successful, support for these
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> will have to be retained.
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<<< edited >>>
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>- In the unlikely event that you did decide to proceed with the port, you
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> might want to consider the approach Stephan took with the quickie MGR
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> port at Chicago. He had KWindows assign a window area, then used this
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> base address for MGR to do its thing. He used a separate serial port
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> for the mouse, but it should be quite easy to use the KWindows mouse
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> getstats to allow a shared mouse. I think the tricky part would be
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> the keyboard -- KWindows has some unfriendly kludges (CTRL-ALT-A for
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> resize window, and others...) and is quite limited in some regards.
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> Fortunately, this is a separate module, so a plug-in replacement would
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> be possible. All of this might make co-existence possible. However,
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> co-existence would also likely preclude some types of speed optimizations
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> that might make use of the VSC.
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And from another private message to Ed several weeks later:
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>If given a memory address for a 184,320 byte area of 16-color video memory
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>(nibble-per-pixel, contiguous, from top-left to bottom-right), what is
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>required to do a very basic 768x480 screen driver (excluding optimizations)?
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>Palette/CLUT control should be fairly easy. Mouse interface
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>could be done several different ways: re-write the MM/1 mouse driver,
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>interface to the existing driver, or use a different serial port (and mouse;
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>not very attractive, but it would be OK for a demo). My guess is that
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>G-Windows would generate its own mouse pointer, and would allow for a
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>software-generated cursor as well.
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My thoughts at the time closely paralleled much of what you have been
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proposing. Though I didn't go into the details, what I had in mind (with
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a few embellishments) was:
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- G-Windows init:
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- open a 768x480x16 K-Windows screen through a standard Kwin call (for
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/w). It would keep the associated paths open.
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- GW would obtain screen video memory base address from KW
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- GW would use a KW call to set initial palettes.
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- GW would tell KW to turn off mouse cursor, as it would generate its
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own.
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- G-Windows term:
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- GW would close KW paths after terminating its own resources
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- Reading the mouse:
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- GW should probably use KW calls to read the mouse values, for
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co-existence. (Note that KW juggles which screen is currently active.)
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GW should honour Ms_Valid to ensure that it only reacts to mouse
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actions entered when it is the interactive screen.
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- KW normally only has one mouse button available for the application
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to use (default, the left one). Since I sent my original messages,
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we have learned that with Scroll Lock "On", the center button
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(normally cut/paste) can also be used. The right button switches
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to the next screen in rotation, so is useless to an application.
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- Reading the keyboard:
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- keyboard input would arrive to GW via the original KW stdin path.
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- KW keyboard idiosyncrasies/idiocies that will need to be addressed:
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- ALT-CTRL-A/B/Space
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- CTRL-ARROWs, CTRL-Enter, ALT-ARROWs, etc.
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The first group (move, resize) are particularly troublesome,
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especially the "move", which could be initiated from another screen
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to move it onto the GW screen.
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- Compatibility with KW applications:
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- programs requiring KW support (sound, different resolution screens,
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etc.) could be run from a GW window using:
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"application <>>>/w"
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which would automatically be routed by OSK to /w and Windio.
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- KW applications which automatically create a new KW screen should
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work as above.
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- KW applications which fiddle with the current screen to change its
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characteristics would not be directly compatible, but could be
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run using the "<>>>/w" method above.
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Anyways, the above are really nothing much more than "ruminations"...
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we really don't know what is feasible at this point.
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It is going to be very interesting to see what approaches the two G-Windows
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ports take...
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Cheers... / Ken
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--------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Ken Scales Delphi:KSCALES Internet:kscales@delphi.com CIS:74646,2237
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-*-
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84411 27-DEC 22:22 General Information
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RE: MM/1 GWindows (Re: Msg 84397)
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From: SCWEGERT To: KSCALES
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> BTW, does the latest 68340-Windio (V51?) restore the pushbuttons, so you
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> can use KVed now?
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>
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FWIW, I'm running v51 of windio on a non accelerated MM/1, and KVED works
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just dandy!
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*- Steve -*
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-*-
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84417 28-DEC 00:26 General Information
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RE: MM/1 GWindows (Re: Msg 84360)
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From: JOELHEGBERG To: EDELMAR
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Ed, this may have already been covered, but I'll reply anyway... ;)
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> I thought I saw some place in past discussions that the address for each
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> window is available. If so, then G-WINDOWS could use the address of the
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> window it was started from as its base address. Is the resolution
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> (horizontal and vertical) also available?
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Yes, all that info is available. I would suggest, however, that instead
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of examing the current screen address, that you open a new path to the
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device "/w" which will select an open (unused) K-Window device
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descriptor and then open to the appropritate resolution using a DWSet
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call (just like the CoCo OS-9 DWSet call). That would be best, I think.
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> As I understand K-Windows, while you can have many background processes
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> running from a given screen, you can have only one process writing to
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There is no distinction between an "active" or "inactive" window as far
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as writing to a K-Window is concerned. All windows are always updated,
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just not always visible. The screen memory address you get is yours...
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the window will not be moved.
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> 'Hot-keying' from the screen running G-WINDOWS might be another problem.
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> Assuming the mouse and keyboard outputs are sent to G-WINDOWS, how much
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> filtering is done by K-Windows? I believe certain keys are intercepted
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> by K-Windows and not passed on. Is this correct?
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The mouse should not be a problem under K-Windows... K-Win is pretty
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liberal in providing info about the mouse. You will probably have to
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request K-Windows turn off it's own mouse pointer, which is as easy as
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sending two bytes to the screen. The keyboard is what I'm most
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concerned about. Hitting CTRL-A will resize a screen... CTRL-SPACE
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will move a window to another location... these are things you cannot
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stop. Your will can be moved by the user to a new location or resized
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without your knowledge or control. And those ctrl sequences are not
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passed onto the application, either.
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-- Joel Mathew Hegberg.
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Delphi : JOELHEGBERG
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GEnie : j.hegberg
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Internet : JoelHegberg@delphi.com
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-*-
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84425 28-DEC 03:00 General Information
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RE: MM/1 GWindows (Re: Msg 84367)
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From: AJMLFCO To: ILLUSIONIST (NR)
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Mike,
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After many years of COCO "windows", I too had concerns about a
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Gwindows system. It did not make that much differance! I believe
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that part of my reluctance is the unconscious comparisons I was
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making to Microsoft "Windows". That product does not really
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multitask like Gwindows/OSK and that is a BIG differance! Things
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here go on rather smoothly in the other windows and inside of
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hibernating icons. It is not all that much of a change to "shoot"
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at another window or at an icon to bring it up to the top. It is
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also easy to lay several windows alongside each other since they
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can be resized and moved with the mouse. I am not familiar
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with K-windows. Having the scroll bars, hibernate , close buttons, the
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icons for hard drives and floppies, etc. is quite an improvement over
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CoCo windows. I am not sure if I would be so positive about
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Gwindows if the resolutionof the screen was like the CoCo. I believe
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that the MM/1 has adequate resolution in some of its modes. If
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you have no access to a system with Gwindows, the closest
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thing is the new Workplace shell in OS/2.1 ( Now, don't
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pin me down on that--they are not TOO close) Gwindows/OSK
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is , in general, a lot faster on the Kix\30 than OS/2 on
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a 486-25.
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Allen
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-*-
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End of Thread.
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-*-
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84393 26-DEC 21:37 General Information
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RE: CD-I units identical? (Re: Msg 84358)
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From: WA2EGP To: PHXKEN (NR)
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Well, I know the Sears "version" has some software with it. As far as the SVHS
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connector, I really don't know. If that is supposed to be super VHS I could
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care less....it's either 8 mm (formally BETA) or nothing (grin). Mine is a
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Maggie CDI-2200 which was sold by Radio Shack as an experiment in certain sales
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items. From what I know, there were only 760 High volume stores that got them
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and they were not to be returned to the warehouse. I got mine for $199.95 so
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I don't care if it is slow or not. It was manufactured in Belgium so did
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Philips make it or not, that is the question (sorry, couldn't past that up)?
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Unforch, from my info, they are all gone :-<
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-*-
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84395 27-DEC 00:51 General Information
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RE: CD-I units identical? (Re: Msg 84393)
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From: EMTWO To: WA2EGP
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I also got my CD-i machine at the Shack. I doubt that there was a 'slow'
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version of the machine at all. True, the video card should speed the
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thing up, but non-FMV machines should all run at the same speed.
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-*-
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84419 28-DEC 00:40 General Information
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RE: CD-I units identical? (Re: Msg 84395)
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From: WA2EGP To: EMTWO (NR)
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I would like to get the full motion card. Seeing movies might be interesting.
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-*-
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End of Thread.
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-*-
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84394 26-DEC 21:52 OSK Applications
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RE: 14.4 help (Re: Msg 84384)
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From: WA2EGP To: SCWEGERT
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..and if that service doesn't have a certain post you are interested in, then
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you're screwed? CI$ is too expensive for some of us and what we are interested
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in. Delphi is fine for me. I'm not saying everything should be posted to all
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services but it would be nice in my opinion. Although I'm just jumping in
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here, I think that the AR fiasco might have happened no matter what service
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the source code was posted on. Too bad a few "rotten apples" almost spoiled
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the whole barrel. I guess that's the price for making some things to "free".
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(Should be too "free".) Now if I could get my boss to pay for CI$, then I
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might feel differently.
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-*-
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84402 27-DEC 07:30 OSK Applications
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RE: 14.4 help (Re: Msg 84384)
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From: CBJ To: SCWEGERT
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Since you made a reply that was so long I've probably missed a fe comments. I
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am currently using a "dumb" terminal at work and have no storage facilities. I
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in no way meant that any software or files should be cross posted if the author
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doesn't want them to be. You referred to one of my opinions as (was it silly?)
|
|
Well, the fiasco with Carl's AR and using that as an argument here against the
|
|
cross posting is ludicrous! Are you trying to say that if AR were posted only
|
|
on CIS that the hacking would never have taken place? Are the users of CIS so
|
|
much better that they are above that sort of thing? Yes I know we are talking
|
|
about the source code here. Carl is not the first author who has released his
|
|
source code and had it hacked. He on't be the last either. The people that do
|
|
this are going to do it and release it without permission anyway. Like any
|
|
other software that is "free" it will end up distributed all over the place. I
|
|
know here on Delphi and on my own BBS this stuff will not make to the Databases
|
|
but it will on an awful lot of BBS's and stuff like this is passed around at
|
|
club meetings and basically any type of meeting where CoCoists gather. I still
|
|
feel that the costs of CIS are more than I wish to pay for the services they
|
|
offer. I have the 20/20 plan here and I can get 95% of anything I want right
|
|
here. I have Internet access through a BBS and don't even need to use 1 minute
|
|
of Delphi time for internet. I will be offerring full UUCP on my BBS very soon
|
|
since I just invested a few $$$ with another sysop to get a SUN 3/160 to run a
|
|
BBS on. My BBS will continue on my CoCo but the feed for UUCP will be a SUN.
|
|
Anyway, I see no compelling reason to spend over $100.00 a year to connect to
|
|
CIS. As far as GEnie? Compelling reason #1. They have a CoCo Sig that is at
|
|
least as active as the one on CIS. That would be enough reason IF I could
|
|
justify CIS. BTW, the $100.00 doesn't include the additional phone calls that
|
|
would need to be made during the year.
|
|
Carl
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
84406 27-DEC 20:48 OSK Applications
|
|
RE: 14.4 help (Re: Msg 84402)
|
|
From: JOHNREED To: CBJ
|
|
|
|
>
|
|
> Well, the fiasco with Carl's AR and using that as an argument here against
|
|
the
|
|
> cross posting is ludicrous! Are you trying to say that if AR were posted
|
|
only
|
|
> on CIS that the hacking would never have taken place? Are the users of CIS
|
|
so
|
|
|
|
Sooner or later, somebody is bound to screw it up. In defense of the
|
|
people who fiddled with "AR", those little messages from the original
|
|
author have a way of disappearing as stuff gets passed from hand to
|
|
hand. Maybe the author of the mods didn't know he was violating the
|
|
author's request -- the fault would be with the one who passed it on
|
|
without the original author's comments.
|
|
|
|
|
|
> Anyway, I see no compelling reason to spend over $100.00 a year to connect to
|
|
|
|
> CIS. As far as GEnie? Compelling reason #1. They have a CoCo Sig that is at
|
|
|
|
I'm keeping my accounts on Delphi, CIS, and Genie. CIS has more of
|
|
EVERYTHING than ANYBODY, period. If you haven't looked for it on
|
|
CIS, you haven't looked for it. DELPHI has many of the OS9/OSK
|
|
programmers and a neat portal to Internet. GENIE has lots of UNIX
|
|
source and a super POSTSCRIPT forum. All three, of course have an
|
|
active COCO/OS9/OSK area. My CIS bill runs between $20 and $30/month,
|
|
or about the same as Delphi. Not a lot for a "middle-aged" man to spend
|
|
on his main hobby.
|
|
|
|
BTW
|
|
Just saw what appears to be the first in a series of reports on
|
|
NBC nightly news. They have discovered computer communications.
|
|
There goes the neighborhood.
|
|
|
|
|
|
John R. Wainwright
|
|
|
|
<<CIS -- 72517,676>> <<DELPHI -- JOHNREED>>
|
|
|
|
*********** InfoXpress ************
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
84408 27-DEC 21:25 OSK Applications
|
|
RE: 14.4 help (Re: Msg 84402)
|
|
From: VAXELF To: CBJ
|
|
|
|
Carl,
|
|
|
|
I thought I would point out that I too have the DELPHI 20/20 plan,
|
|
just because CIS is TOO expensive for me.
|
|
BTW the 20/20 plan comes out to be around $240/yr, so your figure's for
|
|
CIS are a TAD TOO LOW. CIS can run you that much in ONLY ONE MONTH.
|
|
|
|
John D.
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
84413 27-DEC 23:09 OSK Applications
|
|
RE: 14.4 help (Re: Msg 84408)
|
|
From: COCOKIWI To: VAXELF (NR)
|
|
|
|
cannot figure how a $1.00 an hour here .and $5.50 there work out the same!
|
|
and if one has a 2400 modem..its $12.50 hr....Etc.....NO WAY JOSE!<grin>.
|
|
he prob goes up for 15 min...<grin> at a time!
|
|
Dennis
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
84416 28-DEC 00:08 OSK Applications
|
|
RE: 14.4 help (Re: Msg 84413)
|
|
From: RANDYKWILSON To: COCOKIWI
|
|
|
|
It's very simple. I do not use CIS interactively like Delphi. No sitting
|
|
in Conf for 3hours at a time. My monthly CIS bill is a lot less than my
|
|
Delphi bill, even though I read three times as many forums on CIS. Why,
|
|
because I can call into CIS, download the days messages from each of the
|
|
three forums (occassionally uploading responses), and log off in less tie
|
|
(time) than it normally takes Delphi to get from
|
|
the USERNAME prompt to the OS9 Forum prompt. Cost per time unit is one thing.
|
|
Cost per KByte is something entirely different.
|
|
|
|
Randy
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
84431 28-DEC 07:26 OSK Applications
|
|
RE: 14.4 help (Re: Msg 84406)
|
|
From: CBJ To: JOHNREED (NR)
|
|
|
|
I agree that for some people $20/$30 a month per service may be viewed as a
|
|
reasonable expense. I, however usually end up with more like $35/$45 a month
|
|
on Delphi alone. This is due to the volume of mail I must store at times due
|
|
to my being an officer of three Users Groups. That and the fact that I must
|
|
often log on during the day when I pay a premium rate. I have had bills as
|
|
high as $250.00 just previous to the Fest and during The OS-9 Users Group
|
|
debacle. I think anybody can see why I would hesitate to go online with CIS.
|
|
Other reasons include the fact that most people I need to interface with are
|
|
here or on Internet and the fact that Delphi is "home".
|
|
NBC just discovered computer communications....shudder, shudder.!.
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
84432 28-DEC 07:29 OSK Applications
|
|
RE: 14.4 help (Re: Msg 84408)
|
|
From: CBJ To: VAXELF (NR)
|
|
|
|
I was using the figures quoted for CIS. I know that it would cost more but
|
|
don't want to get into an argument about how it "only costs me" and I've had
|
|
bills as low as, etc. Suffice it to say that it ould be a minimum of $200.00
|
|
per year just to join and you can get a $10/4 plan here so $120.00 is also a
|
|
reasonable quote for Delphi.
|
|
Carl
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
End of Thread.
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
84399 27-DEC 03:27 Games & Graphics
|
|
MM/1 Joystick
|
|
From: MREGC To: ALL
|
|
|
|
Making the MM/1 as compatible with CoCo hardware as possible was a
|
|
sensible idea, for the most part, but there is only so far that this should
|
|
have been carried. How is anyone who doesn't have an old CoCo joystick going
|
|
to use the MM/1's joystick port? These joystcks aren't sold anymore by anyone!
|
|
|
|
I seem to remember that back in the days some company sold an adaptor to
|
|
make the CoCo 6-pin DIN joystick port accept traditional Atari type joystick
|
|
plugs. Does anyone know if the company and/or the product still exist?
|
|
|
|
It won't make much sense to write siftware that uses a piece of next-to-
|
|
impossible to find equipment.
|
|
|
|
...Eric...
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
84403 27-DEC 07:46 Games & Graphics
|
|
RE: MM/1 Joystick (Re: Msg 84399)
|
|
From: CBJ To: MREGC
|
|
|
|
>How is anyone who doesn't have an old CoCo joystick going to use the MM/1's
|
|
>joystick port? These joysticks aren't sold anymore by anyone!
|
|
|
|
Well, it is a trivial task to adapt an IBM joystick to use on a CoCo so I would
|
|
think that it would be the same thing on the MM/1. Moreover the Super Deluxe
|
|
Joystick for the Tandy 1000 line IS available from Rat shack and it is easy to
|
|
find the CoCo style Joysticks at Rat Sack. Gravis also made a Joystick for the
|
|
Tandy 1000 that work just fine with a CoCo and even had instructions for the
|
|
CoCo. I'm sure that BlackHawk could work out a deal with Gravis IF finding the
|
|
joysticks becomes a major problem. BTW, the original "deluxe" joystick was the
|
|
made by Kraft. Just a couple of trivial mods and a different connector on the
|
|
end. There is a company that sells adapters to use Atari joysticks with the
|
|
CoCo as well...I disrememeber who it is right now. Oh and last but not least,
|
|
That is a seven DIN connector on the back of the CoCo.
|
|
Carl
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
84412 27-DEC 23:02 Games & Graphics
|
|
RE: MM/1 Joystick (Re: Msg 84399)
|
|
From: COCOKIWI To: MREGC
|
|
|
|
How come you say that! ALL IBM analog joysticks ARE not that much different.
|
|
I am using two old Delux joysticks<COCO> on my 386....SO!seems to me it would
|
|
work the other way!<grin>all one needs to do is put the right plug on it!!!
|
|
Dennis
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
84414 27-DEC 23:11 Games & Graphics
|
|
RE: MM/1 Joystick (Re: Msg 84403)
|
|
From: COCOKIWI To: CBJ
|
|
|
|
WRONG! try six ...pins!......was 5pins till they added the extra button.
|
|
Dennis
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
84415 27-DEC 23:21 Games & Graphics
|
|
RE: MM/1 Joystick (Re: Msg 84412)
|
|
From: MITHELEN To: COCOKIWI
|
|
|
|
Gee... Sounds like someone could probably make some $$$ building and selling
|
|
adaptor cables that will allow you to plug a IBM type joy-stick into a CoCo or
|
|
MM/1 without having to hack the the jok-stick cable. Hey... Chris Hawks!
|
|
This sounds like a good Hawksoft product... Just give me a 5% royalty for the
|
|
Idea if you plan on marketing it 8-)
|
|
--
|
|
Paul Jerkatis - SandV BBS (708)352-0948: Chicago Area OS-9 Users Group
|
|
UUCP ...{balr|tellab5}!vpnet!sandv.chi.il.us!sysop
|
|
Internet: MITHELEN@Delphi.com
|
|
|
|
"Did you ever notice how cheep 99% of all BBS users are?" - Unknown
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
84423 28-DEC 02:15 Games & Graphics
|
|
RE: MM/1 Joystick (Re: Msg 84403)
|
|
From: MREGC To: CBJ
|
|
|
|
Carl,
|
|
I hope getting joysticks is as easy as you make it out to be. I know some
|
|
company sold joystick adaptors way back when, but that was a long time ago.
|
|
Hopefully they are still in business or can at least be contacted.
|
|
When you say you can still get CoCo style joysticks at Radio Shack, do you
|
|
mean by special order? I just checked out 1 Shack in my area to see if they had
|
|
any, and they didn't. But of course that was only one store. Was that not very
|
|
representative of most Shacks?
|
|
...Eric...
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
84424 28-DEC 02:25 Games & Graphics
|
|
RE: MM/1 Joystick (Re: Msg 84412)
|
|
From: MREGC To: COCOKIWI
|
|
|
|
> all one needs to do is put the right plug on it!!!
|
|
|
|
That may well be true. However, the idea here is supposed to be to make
|
|
OSK, (or the MM/1 or whatever,) as *user* friendly as possible, which means
|
|
getting away from the old CoCo habit of hardware hacking our way into what we
|
|
need. I may be a programmer, but as far as hardwae goes, I'm as much of a user
|
|
as you can find. I don't touch hardware except for maybe jumpering a drive to
|
|
change its id in the chain of drives. I would in no way attempt to make an
|
|
adaptor to use an IBM joystick in a CoCo connector, *nor should I have to.*
|
|
|
|
If we want to have mainstream appeal then our products *must* be plug-and-
|
|
go, which means either supplying all owners with the necessary equipment, or
|
|
making such things as adaptors included with the software that needs them. In
|
|
my opinion, the former would be much more desireble. As a programmer I don't
|
|
think I should have to worried about whether or not users will have access to
|
|
the right type of joystick or an adaptor to use a more mainstream one. And I
|
|
*certainly* shouldn't have to provide such an adaptor with every game I sell.
|
|
|
|
...Eric...
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
84426 28-DEC 05:51 Games & Graphics
|
|
RE: MM/1 Joystick (Re: Msg 84415)
|
|
From: COCOKIWI To: MITHELEN (NR)
|
|
|
|
Hee.hee!...for grins..grab a copy of Popular Electronics DEC-93 page34
|
|
on Article..."Build A Joystick Adapter" "Nintendo" joysticks for IBM or
|
|
Atari...This is a "SERIAL" to Analog converter...believe it or NOT...
|
|
Data from joystick is...Gnd....CLK....Load....Sout....+5v
|
|
Basicly a 4021 par in/serial out shift reg..with 8 pulled up SPST Mom switches
|
|
connected to its par inputs..the Computer supplied the CLK & LOAD....
|
|
This package controls the thing via three chips..costs $20.00 +shipping
|
|
AND should work with a CoCo....<x fingers><grin>.....
|
|
Dennis
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
84427 28-DEC 06:02 Games & Graphics
|
|
RE: MM/1 Joystick (Re: Msg 84424)
|
|
From: COCOKIWI To: MREGC
|
|
|
|
The Elmar....System should work fine,since it uses IBM boards,hence NO problem!
|
|
The MM/1 I don,t know...YOU are getting away from the point made!
|
|
THE Coco joystick is NO LONGER MADE...so if one needs one then THEY HAVE TO
|
|
MAKE THE CHANGES for it to work! If they get one from Radio Shack it will still
|
|
have the 6 pin plug,as their Computers use 6pin sockets<same as CoCo>the only
|
|
change is the power line to the controls inside....I WAS NOT REFURING TO A
|
|
MM/1 or any other 68000 system....I was Refuring to the CoCo......in my other
|
|
post here,get another pair of glasses!<grin>
|
|
Dennis
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
84428 28-DEC 06:17 Games & Graphics
|
|
RE: MM/1 Joystick (Re: Msg 84423)
|
|
From: COCOKIWI To: MREGC
|
|
|
|
Hmmmm! Radio shack has changed somewhat!<grin> looks like they now support
|
|
the "other" kind of joystick now,figuring they now sell "other"boards
|
|
sound blaster for one,and others,one would think that the "standard" would
|
|
be supplied now,and the "old style" out the window,<as usual>..One would
|
|
think you could get one via the Warehouse!<don't count on it<grin>If memory
|
|
serves me correctly did they not buy a computer Maker not long ago!
|
|
BUT! most IBM analog joysticks CAN be changed to work on a CoCo!I did the
|
|
reverse,I had a couple of CoCo Kraft Joysticks that I changed to work with
|
|
my 386....work fine! on JF2...F117....f15.....Etc....<grin>......
|
|
Saved me buying another!
|
|
Dennis
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
84429 28-DEC 06:34 Games & Graphics
|
|
RE: MM/1 Joystick (Re: Msg 84427)
|
|
From: MREGC To: COCOKIWI (NR)
|
|
|
|
>YOU are getting away from the point made! THE Coco joystick is NO LONGER
|
|
>MADE...so if one needs one then THEY HAVE TO MAKE THE CHANGES for it to
|
|
>work! ...get another pair of glasses!!<grin>
|
|
|
|
|
|
original message. My whole point was that the MM/1 uses joysticks that are no
|
|
longer in production, which is a bad design decision if we want to appal to
|
|
more than just the hardware hacker who doesn't mind having to "MAKE THE
|
|
CHANGES for it to work!" Users SHOULD NOT HAVE TO DO THIS. That IS the whole
|
|
point! The nessage of mine which you replied to had NOTHING to do with the
|
|
CoCo.
|
|
|
|
>If they get one from Radio Shack it will still have the 6 pin plug...
|
|
|
|
That's certainly not what I saw when I visited my friendly neighborhood
|
|
shack the other day. All the joysticks there had connectors of the old Atari
|
|
style, (maybe that's the IBM style, I don't know as I'm not familiar with IBM
|
|
style joysticks.) Now I just have to visit several other shacks to see if
|
|
CoCo style joysticks are nowhere to be found.
|
|
|
|
...Eric...
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
84430 28-DEC 06:39 Games & Graphics
|
|
RE: MM/1 Joystick (Re: Msg 84428)
|
|
From: MREGC To: COCOKIWI (NR)
|
|
|
|
> BUT! most IBM analog joysticks CAN be changed to work on a CoCo!
|
|
|
|
OK, for the third, (and hopefully last,) time. I was not referring to the
|
|
CoCo, but rather to the CoCo style joysticks which the MM/1 uses. And one of
|
|
the major points of what I'm saying is that MM/1 users *should not have to*
|
|
change, modify, adapt, or do anything else to another style of joystick just
|
|
to have a useable joystick for their MM/1.
|
|
|
|
...Eric...
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
84433 28-DEC 07:37 Games & Graphics
|
|
RE: MM/1 Joystick (Re: Msg 84414)
|
|
From: CBJ To: COCOKIWI (NR)
|
|
|
|
WHOOPS! blushing... How right you are. I just counted again. Must have been
|
|
up too long when I counted yesterday. I disagree about the "5pins" though. I
|
|
have an old gray case and it has 6 pin output. Are you thinking of the
|
|
connector on the M/Board or the one on the cable? I know Tandy did make some
|
|
Tandy/custom cable connectors with a pin missing. They never stop being the
|
|
original ones.
|
|
Carl
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
84434 28-DEC 07:45 Games & Graphics
|
|
RE: MM/1 Joystick (Re: Msg 84423)
|
|
From: CBJ To: MREGC (NR)
|
|
|
|
While Tandy isn't "restocking the joystick" it is far from a "hard to find" or
|
|
off-the-list item. The reason for this is the fact that until just VERY, very
|
|
recently the Tandy 1000 line used the same joystick. If the store you deal
|
|
with doesn't have one on the shelf ask them to call a couple of local stores.
|
|
I was able to find 50 High Resolution interfaces that way at just 5 stores only
|
|
a year ago. Since the joysticks MAY be discontinued (I'm not sure of that) you
|
|
can also ask them to check the disco sheet which will give quantitites and
|
|
locations within the district. As I said Gravis also made a very nice stick
|
|
for the Tandy 1000 and the CoCo that was sold at Egghead. I bought 2. I'm
|
|
sure they would do a limited run for Blackhawk if there was a demand for them.
|
|
Carl
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
84435 28-DEC 07:54 Games & Graphics
|
|
RE: MM/1 Joystick (Re: Msg 84424)
|
|
From: CBJ To: MREGC (NR)
|
|
|
|
re: plug and go:
|
|
Actually even in the IBM/PC world you will find that quite often you need a
|
|
gender changer or adapter to make something work. Sure, if you buy a card to
|
|
plug into your computer that has an attachment it will not need anything else,
|
|
but if you buy a modem it comes with a cable (external) that is 25/25. Your
|
|
computer has 9 pin. Hm, what to do? You aren't a hacker? OK, you either buy
|
|
a cable that is 25 at one end and 9 at the other or a 25/9 adapter. The same
|
|
thing would apply here. What is needed is an adapter cord for the IBM type of
|
|
joystick. No problem. Just another item for some vendor to make and sell. Of
|
|
course this is all problematic since there aren't any MM/1s in production yet
|
|
and I doubt that any changes are going to be introduced even if they do go into
|
|
production since that would cost additional $$ and that is something that I
|
|
doubt that Blackhawk can afford right now, especially for something this easy
|
|
to "fix".
|
|
Carl
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
End of Thread.
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
84400 27-DEC 04:58 General Information
|
|
RE: CDi Digital Cartridge (Re: Msg 84343)
|
|
From: BROWN80 To: JOHNBAER
|
|
|
|
Thanks a lot for your research. I'm going to go out and look at what is
|
|
available around Bryan. I called the 800 number after an add and they are
|
|
sending a packet of info... Who knows Christmas may be a little late this
|
|
year.
|
|
John Brown
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
84405 27-DEC 19:28 General Information
|
|
RE: CDi Digital Cartridge (Re: Msg 84400)
|
|
From: JOHNBAER To: BROWN80 (NR)
|
|
|
|
> Thanks a lot for your research. I'm going to go out and look at what is
|
|
> available around Bryan. I called the 800 number after an add and they
|
|
> are sending a packet of info... Who knows Christmas may be a little late
|
|
> this year.
|
|
> John Brown
|
|
>
|
|
|
|
Sounds good John. If your wondering about any software, just ask..
|
|
I have a `few' titles <g>.
|
|
|
|
-
|
|
John Baer
|
|
johnbaer@delphi.com
|
|
jbaer@pacs.pha.pa.us
|
|
|
|
*** InfoXpress 1.01.00 ***
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
End of Thread.
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
84401 27-DEC 06:58 OSK Applications
|
|
RE: Sound Chip - Yamaha (OPL3) (Re: Msg 84377)
|
|
From: CBJ To: ILLUSIONIST (NR)
|
|
|
|
Hm,
|
|
Actually the VGA card idea could probably support the CoCo windows but I
|
|
think the windows would not fill the entire screen. I've seen stuff like this
|
|
done on prototype boards on other systems where the first objective is to get
|
|
the hardware working. After the VGA card was working then you would need to
|
|
make additional window types to support the full use of the card but I'm pretty
|
|
sure somebody can figure a way to make a VGA card support all the CoCo windows
|
|
as well.
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
84404 27-DEC 11:51 General Information
|
|
KWindows
|
|
From: COLORSYSTEMS To: KSCALES
|
|
|
|
> > The latest releases of WindIO have included device descriptors for
|
|
> > devices /w9-/w15.
|
|
>
|
|
>That's good... but does it now return an appropriate error if an application
|
|
>tries to open a window when there is insufficient contiguous memory
|
|
>remaining or any other error occurs?
|
|
|
|
You're asking the wrong person that question. First thing, I personally
|
|
never ran into the situation so I was not even aware it existed. Also,
|
|
I am not intimate with KWindows. Do you know who to direct that question
|
|
to?
|
|
|
|
> (Of course, this needs to ripple into cgfx.l, too.)
|
|
|
|
I'm not absolutely certain, but I think Mike write all of the cgfx.l functions
|
|
so that IF a system call or a display of control codes returned an error,
|
|
it gets returned by the function call.
|
|
|
|
>bytes in the 1-meg video memory area (1.5M with an unpublished hack), which
|
|
|
|
Anyone ever going to publish that? :-)
|
|
|
|
>BTW, does the latest 68340-Windio (V51?) restore the pushbuttons, so you
|
|
>can use KVed now?
|
|
|
|
I used KVed with #50 when I first got the 340 and I couldn't tell that it
|
|
didn't work. I just tried again with #51 and KVed appears to work just
|
|
fine. Can you give me something specific to try?
|
|
|
|
------------------------------------
|
|
Zack C Sessions
|
|
ColorSystems
|
|
|
|
"I am Homer of Borg, prepare to be assimi ... OOOOHHH, DOUGHNUTS!"
|
|
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
84422 28-DEC 02:10 General Information
|
|
RE: KWindows (Re: Msg 84404)
|
|
From: KSCALES To: COLORSYSTEMS (NR)
|
|
|
|
Hi, Zack -
|
|
|
|
> You're asking the wrong person that question. First thing, I personally
|
|
> never ran into the situation so I was not even aware it existed. Also,
|
|
> I am not intimate with KWindows. Do you know who to direct that question
|
|
> to?
|
|
|
|
Yes, it was mostly intended as a rhetorical question... Probably it
|
|
would be best for us to channel these types of questions via NIMITZ,
|
|
so that he can direct them to his current K-Windows maintainer.
|
|
|
|
> > (Of course, this needs to ripple into cgfx.l, too.)
|
|
>
|
|
> I'm not absolutely certain, but I think Mike write all of the cgfx.l
|
|
> functions so that IF a system call or a display of control codes returned
|
|
> an error, it gets returned by the function call.
|
|
|
|
Unfortunately, the DWSet call doesn't seem to return anything (based on docs
|
|
and experience).
|
|
|
|
> >bytes in the 1-meg video memory area (1.5M with an unpublished hack),
|
|
> which
|
|
> Anyone ever going to publish that? :-)
|
|
|
|
Perhaps one of our magazine magnates should contact Kevin Pease regarding
|
|
a "how-to" article...
|
|
|
|
> >BTW, does the latest 68340-Windio (V51?) restore the pushbuttons, so you
|
|
> >can use KVed now?
|
|
>
|
|
> I used KVed with #50 when I first got the 340 and I couldn't tell that it
|
|
> didn't work. I just tried again with #51 and KVed appears to work just
|
|
> fine. Can you give me something specific to try?
|
|
|
|
When we tried KVed on Brian White's MM/1A after the fest, we ran into two
|
|
major problems:
|
|
- the Windio V50 palette bug, which I understand has been addressed in
|
|
V51.
|
|
- The K-Windows Pushbutton gadgets, which KVed uses for most of its
|
|
main-screen buttons (not the overlays) refused to work. (We also tried
|
|
Joel's "Fest" Calculator program, which also uses Pushbuttons, and
|
|
found it was broken, too.) The problem is quite obvious, as it cripples
|
|
mouse-activation for all of the main KVed functions. If you didn't
|
|
have a similar problem, maybe Brian had something installed wrong on
|
|
his system.
|
|
|
|
Cheers... / Ken
|
|
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
|
Ken Scales Delphi:KSCALES Internet:kscales@delphi.com CIS:74646,2237
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
End of Thread.
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
84407 27-DEC 21:14 Applications (6809)
|
|
RE: Profile (Re: Msg 84280)
|
|
From: THETAURUS To: MIKE_GUZZI (NR)
|
|
|
|
>>There was one update for profile called datamaster,...
|
|
|
|
Yeah, I have that, but there hasn't been a time after I started
|
|
that, that it hasn't crashed<my entire system that is> so I don't
|
|
bother with it no more.
|
|
>>why do you say only 5 lines for detail?
|
|
|
|
Well, the display format for the screen that get's the
|
|
information takes a whole page, and I am trying to create a report
|
|
format that will look similar to that. There will be other report
|
|
formats for parts of the record being accessed by certain keys. For
|
|
instance if the person only wants a listing of boards within a certain
|
|
area code, I'll have a format prepared with only the fields
|
|
appropriate for that. I also tho, want to have a format that displays
|
|
ALL the records information and that requires a whole page. If I send
|
|
out let's say, the whole database, I would have a page for each
|
|
record. Here is what my display format looks like now<so far> and most
|
|
likely this will be the final version of this display:
|
|
--------------------------------------------------------------------
|
|
|
|
Board Name: [""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""] Last Updated:
|
|
[""""""""""] Theme:
|
|
[""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""]
|
|
Sysop: [""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""]
|
|
City: [""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""] State: [""""""""""""""""""""]
|
|
Country: ["""""""""""""""]
|
|
Phone Number: ["""] ["""]-[""""]
|
|
Minimum Baud Rate: ["""""] Max Baud Rate: ["""""]
|
|
Word Length/Parity/Stop Bits: ["]/["]/["]
|
|
Supported Networks:
|
|
[""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""]
|
|
Miscellaneous Comments
|
|
[""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""]
|
|
|
|
--------------------------------------------------------------------
|
|
|
|
So you can see, that would definately take more than 5 lines ;-)
|
|
See Ya
|
|
>Chris<
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
84409 27-DEC 22:01 OSK Applications
|
|
julian datge
|
|
From: BKITT To: JEJONES (NR)
|
|
|
|
Subj: Julian Date (sorry)
|
|
Thanks for the help Jim.
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
84410 27-DEC 22:06 OSK Applications
|
|
RE: os9 date command (Re: Msg 83891)
|
|
From: BKITT To: COLORSYSTEMS
|
|
|
|
I guess that quote means more to people who actually have osk system
|
|
manuals. I was one of the lucky majority who never recieved a manual.
|
|
Thanks very much for your help.
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
84418 28-DEC 00:26 OSK Applications
|
|
RE: G-Windows (Re: Msg 84355)
|
|
From: JOELHEGBERG To: CBJ
|
|
|
|
> Hi kookey.
|
|
|
|
<grin> Hi Carl... got your Christmas card... thanks! Did ya get mine?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
-- Joel Mathew Hegberg.
|
|
|
|
Delphi : JOELHEGBERG
|
|
GEnie : j.hegberg
|
|
Internet : JoelHegberg@delphi.com
|
|
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
84436 28-DEC 07:58 OSK Applications
|
|
RE: G-Windows (Re: Msg 84418)
|
|
From: CBJ To: JOELHEGBERG (NR)
|
|
|
|
Joel, got the card yesterday. Thanks for the kind words. June loved the card
|
|
as well. Waldo even liked it, he knocked it on the floor and played with it
|
|
every time we turned our backs. (must be the glitter) TTYL,
|
|
Carl
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
End of Thread.
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
84420 28-DEC 01:34 General Information
|
|
RE: MM/1 Production (Re: Msg 84254)
|
|
From: AJMLFCO To: CBJ
|
|
|
|
Your example of SCSI-2 is appropriate. It is an improvement
|
|
of a standard that pretty much already worked. That is a far
|
|
cry from dreaming up someting from scratch, like OSI, MAP,
|
|
SP50 fieldbus, etc. There should be a working prototype of
|
|
any software available, although it need not be perfect or
|
|
complete. Just be sure that any proposed standards are
|
|
based on someting besides theory.
|
|
|
|
Allen
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
84421 28-DEC 01:47 General Information
|
|
RE: MM/1 Production (Re: Msg 84267)
|
|
From: AJMLFCO To: PAGAN
|
|
|
|
I haven't investigated Filbus yet. There is another layer
|
|
of "fieldbus" communications that lies below the Profibus, FIP,
|
|
SP50 level. Filbus, Interbus-S (which may be the same) and others
|
|
are a higher speed but less sophisticated protocol. Now, I
|
|
haven't studied Filbus in detail yet, so I may be wrong.
|
|
Profibus and FIP are quite complex, kind of like TCP/IP
|
|
for process instruments.
|
|
Fibus may only communicate with certain Gespac I/O modules.
|
|
Industry in general is looking for a common protocol for
|
|
all types of instruments such as pressure, temperature, and
|
|
flow transmitters. Add to that limit switches, pressure switches,
|
|
etc. All of this will communicate on a twisted pair,
|
|
with high noise immunity, at 1 megabit or higher. "I/O"
|
|
cards would not be needed anymore (in theory).
|
|
|
|
Allen
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
84437 28-DEC 08:03 General Information
|
|
RE: MM/1 Production (Re: Msg 84420)
|
|
From: CBJ To: AJMLFCO (NR)
|
|
|
|
Well, it depends on what you define as theory. Full RS-232 implementation is
|
|
rare. (as defined by the standard) Certain standards were proposed before a
|
|
product was even prototyped...IBM microchannel is an example. As technology
|
|
speeds up and computer hardware changes magnify standards will be theoretical
|
|
in the future so that manufacturers can produce platforms that will be supported
|
|
|
|
by the third party vendors.
|
|
Carl
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
End of Thread.
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
84438 28-DEC 13:35 Programmers Den
|
|
RE: Database in C (Re: Msg 84375)
|
|
From: FRANCALCRAFT To: MITHELEN (NR)
|
|
|
|
Thanks a bunch. I didn't realize that linking files was that easy.
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
|
|
FORUM>Reply, Add, Read, "?" or Exit> |