2316 lines
86 KiB
Plaintext
2316 lines
86 KiB
Plaintext
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84297 23-DEC 17:18 OSK Applications
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G-Windows
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From: CBJ To: ALL
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This is just a general message to all MM1 owners. Ah, what the heck, to Ed and
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Frank as well.
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1. Please, just the facts
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2. Bringing up past issues only serves to cloud the present issues
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3. The attendance of vendors to shows has no bearing on the level of
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support they will offer (see #2)
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I'm sure I'll draw a little flack here but before anybody replies to this msg
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please THINK about it. Ed is offerring a port of G-Windows IF he gets at least
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20 orders. Frank is offerring the port (alibeit an old version) now. To date
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you, the MM1 users haven't beaten down his door to take him up on his offer. I
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think that is a shame. Frank has now come out a few days before the announced
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deadline and offerred the port that was made available to him. On the surface
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this seems to be contradictory. In the past he didn't want to do a port unless
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he had firm orders (just like Ed). I can't blame either of them for this, if
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they commission a port they have to pay a programmer to do that port. Now it
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seems that somebody had already done a port for personal use and offerred it to
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Frank and he is now offerring it to the market. Hm, cause for anguish? No, I
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think this is called free enterprise. A good friend of mine is (has) writing a
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word processing program for the MM1. Would any of you people who are SO very
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outraged at Frank get upset if another Word Processing program is introduced to
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the market for the MM1? Methinks not. I haven't seen Frank or Ed make any
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outrageous claims about their products (G Windows). I went back and could not
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find any intent on Franks part to misinform or misrepresent his product, nor do
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I find Ed doing that. Ed (and others) ask a lot of valid questions about the
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documentation, etc. Everybody should ask those questions. The point is, if it
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is OK to have more than one word processing program then how will you decide
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which to buy? You need to compare them. Ask questions. You won't make the
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decision based on emotions. This is the same thing ask questions and make an
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informed choice. Both of these vendors have reputations to protect. They've
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both been in business for some time. Support is a valid concern. I can't say
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that either of them will or won't live up to expectations. The point is each
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MM1 owner must make that decision. All this arguing though is only making the
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emotions felt and seen. Sooner or later Ed or Frank will put their foot in
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their mouths and then the opposing persons will make the issue even larger than
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it is. So...let's forget the name calling, let's just examine what each is
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offerring and then make a decision based on the best alternative.
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Carl
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P. S. We all put our feet in our mouths at times. I know mine taste terrible!
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onder what I walked through?
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-*-
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84298 23-DEC 17:21 OSK Applications
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RE: G-Windows (Re: Msg 84297)
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From: CBJ To: CBJ
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Oh, I forgot to mention that I do hope that G-Windows does get a current version
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ported to the MM1 and that it gets a lot of support. I also hope that it gets
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updated regularly as new versions come out.
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Carl
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-*-
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84315 23-DEC 22:28 OSK Applications
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RE: G-Windows (Re: Msg 84298)
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From: EMTWO To: CBJ
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Carl,
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I wish DELMAR could proceed with his port at once. As it stands, he has
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2/3 (i think) of his orders placed. I wish FHL had done a year ago, what
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he is doing now. I would have bought it then. As it stands, I have made
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a commitment to DELMAR, and will stick with him until he either delivers
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what I have ordered, or tells me he can't do it. I base my decisions on
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currently available data, and I stick by them.
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-*-
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84326 24-DEC 01:18 OSK Applications
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RE: G-Windows (Re: Msg 84315)
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From: JOELHEGBERG To: EMTWO
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Paul,
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> As it stands, he has
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> 2/3 (i think) of his orders placed. I wish FHL had done a year ago, what
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> he is doing now. I would have bought it then. As it stands, I have made
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> a commitment to DELMAR, and will stick with him until he either delivers
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> what I have ordered, or tells me he can't do it. I base my decisions on
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> currently available data, and I stick by them.
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I agree with you... I am sticking with Delmar for the same reasons, and
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I have a feeling he will get all 20 orders, too. (Call me kookey...)
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-- Joel Mathew Hegberg.
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Delphi : JOELHEGBERG
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GEnie : j.hegberg
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Internet : JoelHegberg@delphi.com
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-*-
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84353 25-DEC 00:11 OSK Applications
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RE: G-Windows (Re: Msg 84315)
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From: CBJ To: EMTWO
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I can't fault you for making a decision to stick by your previous commitment, I
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probably would do the same myself. My point is the fact that competition is to
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the consumers advantage. It results in better products/services and prices. I
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like both Ed and Frank. I've never had any complaints about services provided
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by either of them. The whole point boils down to the fact that it is a free
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market and the people who are jumping up and down about Frank offerring a port
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of G-Windows are off base. Ed made a lot of good points and raised a lot of
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good questions. Frank has also made good points and has the better price at
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this point in time. It is now up to the individual to decide which package is
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the right one for them. Having options available is not bad.
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Carl
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-*-
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84355 25-DEC 00:32 OSK Applications
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RE: G-Windows (Re: Msg 84353)
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From: CBJ To: JOELHEGBERG
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Hi kookey.
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-*-
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84381 26-DEC 02:23 OSK Applications
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RE: G-Windows (Re: Msg 84297)
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From: MREGC To: CBJ (NR)
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> 1. Please, just the facts
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> 2. Bringing up past issues only serves to cloud the present issues
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Perhaps point # 2 is true. However, it is important to view the situation
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with respect to everything you know about the situation and the people
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involved. Past performance is really the only thing we have to judge them by,
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positive or negative. Those who have never had dealings with either of them
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may benefit, or may be falsely swayed, by learning of the experiences of
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others. I know past experience has greatly influenced my decision on this
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matter, and I think justifyably so.
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I also think motivation is an important issue here. Ed raised a valid
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question about Frank's motivation, to which Frank provided a reasonable
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response. If "heat of the moment" emotions have had an effect on the offers
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made then that's something we need to be aware of.
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..Eric...
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-*-
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End of Thread.
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-*-
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84299 23-DEC 18:19 General Information
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CDi Digital Cartridge
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From: JOHNBAER To: ALL
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Well I finely got this beast in the mail yesterday. Opened it up
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to take a look see.. WoW - to say the least <g>. I got all the chip
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numbers off of it and will upload a text file about it. But for now
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I'll say this, right off the box cover.. "plays movies, music videos,
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high power action games... multi RISC processor, 400 MIPs... extended
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1.5 MByte memory... ". That takes the machine from 1 Meg to 2.5 Megs
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total memory,, and almost all the chips are Moto - only one is a Philips
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chip!
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I'll get to work on that text file...
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-
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John Baer
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johnbaer@delphi.com
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jbaer@pacs.pha.pa.us
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*** InfoXpress 1.01.00 ***
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-*-
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84331 24-DEC 02:16 General Information
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RE: CDi Digital Cartridge (Re: Msg 84299)
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From: BROWN80 To: JOHNBAER
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Sounds exciting, all the more reason to see if we can interface with this
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monster
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Looking forward to seeing your text file.
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John Brown
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-*-
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84343 24-DEC 20:35 General Information
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RE: CDi Digital Cartridge (Re: Msg 84331)
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From: JOHNBAER To: BROWN80 (NR)
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> Looking forward to seeing your text file.
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> John Brown
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Just uploaded the file. It's about 2K.. use AR to extract it.
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All the major chip numbers are there. Have fun reading.
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-
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John Baer
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johnbaer@delphi.com
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jbaer@pacs.pha.pa.us
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*** InfoXpress 1.01.00 ***
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-*-
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End of Thread.
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-*-
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84300 23-DEC 20:06 General Information
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Seasons Greetings
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From: FHOGG To: ALL
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Considering the time of year and the need to create one last
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lengthly message dealing with recent events. I have decided to
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wait a few days before doing so.
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To my detractors, which appear to be many and vocal, and to my
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friends, who seem very quiet lately <g>
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Merry Christmas to all
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-*-
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84305 23-DEC 20:32 General Information
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RE: Seasons Greetings (Re: Msg 84300)
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From: PHILSCHERER To: FHOGG
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A very vocal Merry Christmas Frank!! <G> <Phil>
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-*-
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84317 23-DEC 22:47 General Information
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RE: Seasons Greetings (Re: Msg 84305)
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From: EMTWO To: FHOGG
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Merry Christmas Frank.
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-*-
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84323 24-DEC 00:04 General Information
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RE: Seasons Greetings (Re: Msg 84300)
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From: JOHNREED To: FHOGG
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Merry Christmas to you and to all here.
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Hmmm, 12:02 am, Its Christmas Eve -- time to hit the
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local 24-hour department stores and do my Christmas
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Shopping. (Gifts are better if they are FRESH) (GRIN).
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John R. Wainwright
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<<CIS -- 72517,676>> <<DELPHI -- JOHNREED>>
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*********** InfoXpress ************
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-*-
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84325 24-DEC 01:18 General Information
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RE: Seasons Greetings (Re: Msg 84323)
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From: JOELHEGBERG To: JOHNREED
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> Merry Christmas to you and to all here.
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I echo that... Merry Christmas to everyone! Stay safe!
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> Hmmm, 12:02 am, Its Christmas Eve -- time to hit the
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> local 24-hour department stores and do my Christmas
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> Shopping. (Gifts are better if they are FRESH) (GRIN).
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Good! I no longer feel so guilty... ;)
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-- Joel Mathew Hegberg.
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Delphi : JOELHEGBERG
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GEnie : j.hegberg
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Internet : JoelHegberg@delphi.com
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-*-
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84332 24-DEC 02:27 General Information
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RE: Seasons Greetings (Re: Msg 84300)
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From: BROWN80 To: FHOGG
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Merry Christmas Frank, and Merry Christmas to all the people I've met through
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the CoCo and OS-9. May the new year bring us many new and exciting things and
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many successes.
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Frank I hope you consider me a friend, but if some of us have been quiet it is
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because you don't allways stand right next to a friend that insists on stirring
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up a hornets nest. I'm looking forward to trying more great products for the
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Kix/30 from you, and I hope I'll get to see you in Chicago.
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John Brown
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-*-
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84344 24-DEC 20:35 General Information
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RE: Seasons Greetings (Re: Msg 84325)
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From: JOHNBAER To: JOELHEGBERG
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> > Merry Christmas to you and to all here.
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>
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> I echo that... Merry Christmas to everyone! Stay safe!
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>
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> > Hmmm, 12:02 am, Its Christmas Eve -- time to hit the
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> > local 24-hour department stores and do my Christmas
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> > Shopping. (Gifts are better if they are FRESH) (GRIN).
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>
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> Good! I no longer feel so guilty... ;)
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Let me also add to the `list' a Merry Christmas to all!
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And I hope you guy's found the FRESHEST Gifts <g>...
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-
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John Baer
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johnbaer@delphi.com
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jbaer@pacs.pha.pa.us
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*** InfoXpress 1.01.00 ***
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-*-
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End of Thread.
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-*-
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84301 23-DEC 20:23 General Information
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RE: DED (Re: Msg 84278)
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From: PHILSCHERER To: MIKE_GUZZI
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Thanks Mike--I shouldn't have been so stupid! <G red face> <Phil>
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-*-
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84364 25-DEC 14:38 General Information
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RE: DED (Re: Msg 84125)
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From: FRANCALCRAFT To: REVWCP
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I think I know what your problem was. If you are not in the expert mode and you
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make a change to a byte, you must WRITE the sector to make the change permanent.
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The W command does this. Don't forget to VERIFY the module before exiting DED.
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-*-
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End of Thread.
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-*-
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84302 23-DEC 20:25 OSK Applications
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RE: 14.4 help (Re: Msg 84283)
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From: SCWEGERT To: MITHELEN
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> Whats the possibility of getting Carl's permission to cross port the
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> latest drivers that are on CIS to Delphi??? It would be real nice if Carl
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> would have one volenteer submit driover updates to DElphi, after he puts
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> them on CIS.
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> I've never been on CIS, and have no wish to ever get on it.. Also, I
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> don't call LD BBSes either... unless of course , you can FTP or telnet
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> into them...
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Carl has historicaly used CompuServe's OS9 Forum as a home base for his
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code. For instance, you will always find the offical copy of AR in those
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databases.
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Whether Carl would agree to cross posting the drivers is up to him. Best bet
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would be to contact him directly and ask.
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I'm curious .... what's your objection to CompuServe?
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*- Steve -*
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-*-
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84306 23-DEC 20:34 OSK Applications
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RE: 14.4 help (Re: Msg 84302)
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From: MITHELEN To: SCWEGERT
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RE: Objection to CIS
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In a word... MONEY... It is more then I am willing to spend, and there is
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nothing offered therere that I consisider worth the cost.
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--
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Paul Jerkatis - SandV BBS (708)352-0948: Chicago Area OS-9 Users Group
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UUCP ...{balr|tellab5}!vpnet!sandv.chi.il.us!sysop
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Internet: MITHELEN@Delphi.com
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"Did you ever notice how cheep 99% of all BBS users are?" - Unknown
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-*-
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84308 23-DEC 21:29 OSK Applications
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RE: 14.4 help (Re: Msg 84284)
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From: MITHELEN To: NIMITZ
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Ok... understood... But, if Carl has already posted these drivers to CIS
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(at least Ed #32 of the serial drivers) why does he not make them available
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to other public access systems. Or, have you arranged an exclusive distribution
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right on updates with Carl, and Ed #32 is only available through you.
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My previous message want really totally directed to this one cas I really ment
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to say, why is it that so many things get posted only to CIS (and in some cases
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only to Delphi). There are many people that will choose one service over the
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other for whatever reason, and then stay with that service. Sometimes it takes
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years for stuff to make it from one system to another. If authors would
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expressly state that they give permission for free distribution, or, at least
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make arangements to distribute it on more then one system, it would greatly
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benifit the OS-9 comunity. I always try to get someone to submit programs
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I write/port to CI, Genie, and the FTP sites when ever possible. or at least
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state in the documentation/readme file that the archive is freely distributable.
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--
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Paul Jerkatis - OS-9 Users Group, Inc.: V.P. of Communications
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SandV BBS (708)352-0948: Chicago Area OS-9 Users Group
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UUCP ...{balr|tellab5}!vpnet!sandv.chi.il.us!sysop
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Internet: MITHELEN@Delphi.com
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-*-
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84316 23-DEC 22:44 OSK Applications
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RE: 14.4 help (Re: Msg 84308)
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From: NIMITZ To: MITHELEN
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Paul,
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Those drivers - for the MM/1, were done under contract to IMS and are now
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property of BlackHawk Enterprises. While Paul Ward apparently has given
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permission to distribute certain drivers freely as a support factor, I
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looked at the financial condition of the company, and income / expense
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projections, and decided it was not feasible to maintain free updates forever.
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Thus this change in policy from the IMS policy. (with regret!)
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David
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-*-
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84320 23-DEC 23:01 OSK Applications
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RE: 14.4 help (Re: Msg 84316)
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From: RANDYKWILSON To: NIMITZ
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Does this mean that the "current" releases will be (have been) pulled from
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CIS? I looked a few minutes ago and could not find them.
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Randy
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-*-
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84334 24-DEC 10:32 OSK Applications
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RE: 14.4 help (Re: Msg 84320)
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From: SCWEGERT To: RANDYKWILSON
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> Does this mean that the "current" releases will be (have been) pulled
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> from CIS? I looked a few minutes ago and could not find them.
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Before the rumors get going hot and heavey on this issue, nope ...
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the drivers haven't been pulled, nor do I expect them to be. They were
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posted with the authors permission.
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You'll find them in LIB 12 of CompuServe's OS9 Forum. Here's the scoop:
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NEWDIR.LZH/Bin Bytes: 5584, Count: 47, 29-Nov-92(12-Oct-93)
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Last:24-Dec-93
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Title : New MM/1 Serial port Drivers
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Keywords: SC68901 SC68070 SC68681 DRIVERS T0 T1 T2 T3 T4 DESCRRIPTORS
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New serial drivers for the MM/1. These have been bashed on for months
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and all the buglets have been (hopefully) squashed.
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This archive contains the following (underscore value indicates Edition #):
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sc68070_14 sc68681_32 sc68901_30 and Edition #5 of t0 - t4
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*- Steve -*
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-*-
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84335 24-DEC 10:32 OSK Applications
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RE: 14.4 help (Re: Msg 84306)
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From: SCWEGERT To: MITHELEN
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> RE: Objection to CIS
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>
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> In a word... MONEY... It is more then I am willing to spend, and there
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> is nothing offered therere that I consisider worth the cost.
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> --
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I understand. But with the advent of Bill's InfoXpress, those costs are quite
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manageable these days.
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It's interesting that you mention "...there is nothing offered there that I
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consider worth the cost." yet you seem to be interested in getting Carl's
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latest and greatest.
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Running a Forum (either here or on CompuServe) is a business. These so called
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exclusive postings are just one way the staff attempts to encourage
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membership, thus boost revenue.
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*- Steve -*
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-*-
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84336 24-DEC 15:44 OSK Applications
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RE: 14.4 help (Re: Msg 84335)
|
|
From: ILLUSIONIST To: SCWEGERT
|
|
|
|
Well, I dont have an OSk machines, but I do have a coco and a UNIX box
|
|
and if I was told that I could only get drivers for the coco from CIS
|
|
(if say, WindINT was released to PD, and there were active upgrades to it)
|
|
I still wouldnt pay, i mean, I had a CIS account, and although I would
|
|
like to get current upgrades, I wouldnt want to pay that kinda money for
|
|
CIS, although you do have a point about IX. Of course, I am a "unix-head"
|
|
and am used to just going out over Internet for free and getting what
|
|
I want.....I dont even pay delphi connect charges for that.. I use
|
|
my schools system.. :)
|
|
-* Mike
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
84339 24-DEC 16:26 OSK Applications
|
|
RE: 14.4 help (Re: Msg 84335)
|
|
From: MITHELEN To: SCWEGERT
|
|
|
|
Sure, IX helps a lot. But, that there is additional money that I cannot spend.
|
|
I can just barely manage the 13$ a mojnth I spend on delphi. While
|
|
I would sure like to keep my drivers up to date (not just the serial drivers)
|
|
I sure can not justify paying for a CIS membership to do that... Now that I
|
|
see that David will be offering an update disk I don't mind so much (at least
|
|
for the serial drivers) I'll wait til the update is ready, and get that when I
|
|
feel it is something I need...
|
|
(ie, it has more then just the serial drivers that were posted to CIS)
|
|
I have no problems paying for updates... I do have problems pay for bug
|
|
fixes to stuff that was shipped not complete or outright broken.
|
|
|
|
But, my argument still stands that if the OS-9
|
|
comunity is to survive and grow, it is important that information, and software
|
|
not be restriced to once service or another...
|
|
--
|
|
Paul Jerkatis - SandV BBS (708)352-0948: Chicago Area OS-9 Users Group
|
|
UUCP ...{balr|tellab5}!vpnet!sandv.chi.il.us!sysop
|
|
Internet: MITHELEN@Delphi.com
|
|
|
|
"Did you ever notice how cheep 99% of all BBS users are?" - Unknown
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
84341 24-DEC 18:22 OSK Applications
|
|
RE: 14.4 help (Re: Msg 84334)
|
|
From: RANDYKWILSON To: SCWEGERT
|
|
|
|
Ah ha. With a name like NEWDIR.LZH, I probably went right by it (was in sca
|
|
mode).
|
|
|
|
BTW, thanks for the phones number. Rather dain-bramaged software, but I got
|
|
all local numbers in three passes. :> (damage = single baudrate selection
|
|
per call)
|
|
|
|
Randy
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
84345 24-DEC 21:40 OSK Applications
|
|
RE: 14.4 help (Re: Msg 84320)
|
|
From: NIMITZ To: RANDYKWILSON
|
|
|
|
Randy, I really can't say, as I was unaware that they were there in the first
|
|
place......
|
|
|
|
David
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
84354 25-DEC 00:23 OSK Applications
|
|
RE: 14.4 help (Re: Msg 84335)
|
|
From: CBJ To: SCWEGERT
|
|
|
|
Steve,
|
|
I do not have an account on CIS either. You ask why? What is the minimum
|
|
charge for an account on CIS? If I take an account there I should also take an
|
|
account on Genie. If I justify that then I can justify Prodigy and any other
|
|
pay system you can think of. At some point I have to draw the line because my
|
|
funds are limited. As far as exclusive postings...whenever I've talked to an
|
|
author (such as Carl) they have agreed to allow multiple postings. It is their
|
|
object to get their programs into the users hands. If they were doing this for
|
|
a profit then they would not be posting to CIS, Delphi or any other service
|
|
where people can download the software without paying the author.
|
|
Carl
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
84383 26-DEC 11:34 OSK Applications
|
|
RE: 14.4 help (Re: Msg 84341)
|
|
From: SCWEGERT To: RANDYKWILSON
|
|
|
|
> Ah ha. With a name like NEWDIR.LZH, I probably went right by it (was in
|
|
> sca mode).
|
|
|
|
Yeah .... looking at it in the cold morning light, I'm guessing Mark made a
|
|
typo when he uploaded the original file. It's been updated several times, but
|
|
the name's just carried forward! ;-)
|
|
|
|
> BTW, thanks for the phones number. Rather dain-bramaged software, but I
|
|
> got all local numbers in three passes. :> (damage = single baudrate
|
|
> selection per call)
|
|
|
|
Hmm ... not brain dead, but a planned event. Since they're paying for that
|
|
800 access, I'm sure they want to keep the duration down to a minimum.
|
|
|
|
*- Steve -*
|
|
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
84384 26-DEC 11:34 OSK Applications
|
|
RE: 14.4 help (Re: Msg 84354)
|
|
From: SCWEGERT To: CBJ (NR)
|
|
|
|
> I do not have an account on CIS either. You ask why? What is the
|
|
> minimum charge for an account on CIS?
|
|
|
|
A minimum billing for an account on CompuServe costs only $2.50 per month,
|
|
with online charges at $12.80 per/hr for 2400 bps or $22.80 /hr for 9600 and
|
|
14.4 bps.
|
|
|
|
A better alternative is a Standard account on CompuServe. Only $8.95 per
|
|
month, and it includes unlimited connect time to the following:
|
|
|
|
NEWS, SPORTS, WEATHER
|
|
Associated Press Online
|
|
Hourly News Summaries,
|
|
Sports, Entertainment, Business
|
|
News, This Day In History
|
|
Accu-Weather Maps/Reports
|
|
Deutsche Presse-Agentur Kurznachrichtendienst
|
|
National Weather Service
|
|
UK News Clips
|
|
UK Sports Clips
|
|
UK Weather
|
|
U.S. News & World Report Magazine
|
|
|
|
REFERENCE LIBRARY
|
|
American Heritage Dictionary
|
|
Consumer Reports
|
|
Consumer Reports Complete Drug Reference
|
|
Grolier's Academic
|
|
American Encyclopedia
|
|
A 21-volume online
|
|
encyclopedia updated quarterly
|
|
Handicapped Users' Database
|
|
HealthNet
|
|
Peterson's College Database
|
|
Rehabilitation Database
|
|
|
|
SHOPPING
|
|
The Electronic Mall
|
|
Shopper's Advantage
|
|
A Discount Shopping Club
|
|
|
|
MONEY TALKS
|
|
Basic Current Stock Quotes
|
|
FundWatch Online By Money Magazine
|
|
Issue/Symbol Reference
|
|
Mortgage Calculator
|
|
|
|
GAMES & ENTERTAINMENT
|
|
Black Dragon
|
|
CastleQuest
|
|
Classic Adventure
|
|
Enhanced Adventure
|
|
Hangman
|
|
Hollywood by Marilyn Beck/Stacy Smith
|
|
Hollywood Hotline
|
|
Roger Ebert's Movie Reviews
|
|
Science Trivia Quiz
|
|
ShowBizQuiz
|
|
Soap Opera Summaries
|
|
The Grolier Whiz Quiz
|
|
|
|
COMMUNICATION EXCHANGE
|
|
Ask Customer Service
|
|
Classified Ads *
|
|
(to read; placement cost extra)
|
|
CompuServe Mail *
|
|
Directory of Members
|
|
DOSCIM Support Forum
|
|
Help Forum
|
|
MACCIM Support Forum
|
|
Navigator Support Forum
|
|
Practice Forum
|
|
WinCIM Support Forum
|
|
|
|
TRAVEL AND LEISURE
|
|
Department of State Advisories
|
|
Lanier Golf Database
|
|
Travel Britain Online
|
|
Travelshopper and EAASY SABRE (airline, hotel,
|
|
and rental car information and
|
|
reservations)
|
|
Visa Advisors
|
|
Zagat Restaurant Survey
|
|
|
|
|
|
Sure .... forum's are still a premium area, but if you think about it, they're
|
|
offering premium services! :-) You do get a significant discount on the hourly
|
|
connect rate ($ 8/hr for 2400bps and $16 for 9600 _and_ 14.4bps access)
|
|
|
|
> If I take an account there I should also take an
|
|
> account on Genie. If I justify that then I can justify Prodigy and any
|
|
> other pay system you can think of. At some point I have to draw the line
|
|
> because my funds are limited.
|
|
|
|
Should get a GEnie account? Beats me. Do they offer something of value
|
|
important to you? That's an evaluation you have to make. Personally, I find
|
|
that CompuServe and Delphi accounts complement each other. Each has something
|
|
of value.
|
|
|
|
Most of the services mentioned above (or ones like it) are also on Delphi.
|
|
But their use applies against your time allotment. So if your main interest
|
|
is in stock quotes and news, which service if the better value?
|
|
|
|
On the otherside of the coin, if you like to wander the Internet, Delphi
|
|
offers the best deal in town.
|
|
|
|
> As far as exclusive postings...whenever I've talked to
|
|
> an author (such as Carl) they have agreed to allow multiple postings. It
|
|
> is their object to get their programs into the users hands.
|
|
|
|
To an extent you're correct. But take a look at the fiasco over AR. Because
|
|
Carl allowed the free dissemination of _his_ source code, and a few folks took
|
|
liberties, we've ended up with quite a mess on our hands ... and a royally
|
|
peeved author who most likely will _never_ release source code again. Was it
|
|
worth it?
|
|
|
|
At least by making CompuServe the official site for AR's source code, folks
|
|
will always know where they can find the most recent authorized version.
|
|
|
|
> If they were doing this for
|
|
> a profit then they would not be posting to CIS, Delphi or any other
|
|
> service where people can download the software without paying the author.
|
|
|
|
Well that's nonsense. There are hundreds of vendors in business to make
|
|
a profit that currently use CompuServe's forum to support their products,
|
|
and offer updates to their software.
|
|
|
|
Just because it's posted online somewhere doesn't mean that's it's in the
|
|
public domain and should be on every BBS. Nor does it mean that royalties
|
|
haven't been paid. There are a number of ways to skin this cat.
|
|
|
|
Carl, my intent wasn't to jump on you, but your message gave me an opening
|
|
to speal my piece on this popular thinking that _all_ information should
|
|
be on _all_ of the various services and archives.
|
|
|
|
Delphi and CompuServe are around to make money .... pure and simple. Shop the
|
|
services and find the ones that meet your online needs and support them.
|
|
|
|
|
|
*- Steve -*
|
|
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
End of Thread.
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
84303 23-DEC 20:27 General Information
|
|
RE: MERRY, CHRISTMAS (Re: Msg 84291)
|
|
From: PHILSCHERER To: MRUPGRADE
|
|
|
|
Hi Terry -- May I say I join you in the celebration of the birth of Jesus
|
|
Christ! <Phil>
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
84309 23-DEC 21:37 General Information
|
|
RE: MERRY, CHRISTMAS (Re: Msg 84303)
|
|
From: MITHELEN To: MRUPGRADE
|
|
|
|
As an athiest, I'll say that I'm not offended when people wish me a Merry
|
|
Christmas. And I also wish the same on others... I view Christmas as a
|
|
comercial holliday, created for people that like to shop...
|
|
--
|
|
Paul Jerkatis - SandV BBS (708)352-0948: Chicago Area OS-9 Users Group
|
|
UUCP ...{balr|tellab5}!vpnet!sandv.chi.il.us!sysop
|
|
Internet: MITHELEN@Delphi.com
|
|
|
|
"Did you ever notice how cheep 99% of all BBS users are?" - Unknown
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
84352 24-DEC 23:57 General Information
|
|
RE: MERRY, CHRISTMAS (Re: Msg 84303)
|
|
From: WA2EGP To: PHILSCHERER
|
|
|
|
Since you guys beat me to it and I don't want to start another thread (grin)
|
|
my best wishes to all, a very happy holiday season and a prosperous New Year!
|
|
(Now ain't that politically correct?) Will look forward to all the info,
|
|
advice, questions, (and even flames) in the coming year. All of you have made
|
|
this SIG one of the most interesting ones I've ever been on. I guess a good
|
|
OS attracts good people.
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
End of Thread.
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
84304 23-DEC 20:29 General Information
|
|
RE: Farewell (Re: Msg 84292)
|
|
From: PHILSCHERER To: MRUPGRADE
|
|
|
|
It's nice to note the volumn of messages being sustained on this sig! Shows
|
|
a healthy and growing group. <Phil>
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
84307 23-DEC 20:42 General Information
|
|
RE: MM/1 GWindows (Re: Msg 84276)
|
|
From: EDELMAR To: JOHNREED
|
|
|
|
John,
|
|
|
|
To answer your questions. First the documentation -
|
|
|
|
Delmar provides copies of the official documentation written by Steve Adams.
|
|
This is broken into 2 sections - one covering using window file manager (WFM),
|
|
the second covers the DESKTOP. The official documentation includes 3
|
|
appendices. Appendix A lists the escape sequences for text (VT-100).
|
|
Appendix B provides sample source code to enable a user to create his own
|
|
custom 'hibernate' icons. Appendix C provides sample file recognizer source
|
|
code. Both source code examples include instructions for assembling or
|
|
compiling respectively.
|
|
|
|
In addition to the above, Delmar provides installation instructions (mostly
|
|
concerning the mouse and the other ports which may be used if the user doesn't
|
|
want to use the default port) and a tutorial to enable the new user to more
|
|
easily start using G-WINDOWS and its various capabilites. The tutorial was
|
|
written for 2 reasons. First, distribution of the official documentation
|
|
is not permitted with the demo version of G-WINDOWS. The tutorial serves to
|
|
provide a guide to using G-WINDOWS. Secondly, while the official documenta-
|
|
tion is more complete and comprehensive than the tutorial, it can be cryptic
|
|
at times (as is often the case when the manual is written by the programmer).
|
|
The tutorial was written to better explain those areas I thought needed
|
|
further clarification.
|
|
|
|
All documentation, whether for normal version or demo, is printed and it fits
|
|
very nicely into the MW binders.
|
|
|
|
In addition to customers and prospects who have received demos, copies of the
|
|
tutorial have been sent to DSRTFOX, MARKGRIFFITH and OS-9 UNDERGROUND. You
|
|
might want to ask them their opinion.
|
|
|
|
> Will I have the equivalent of the "kwindows" escape codes - so I could
|
|
> send hex codes to the screen to control various functions? If I had that
|
|
> much, I could get the $200.00 package, and at least write programs that
|
|
> will perform basic graphic functions, and maybe go for the "development
|
|
> system" later (the other $290.00).
|
|
|
|
I think G-WINDOWS can be best described as an 'environment'. It is loosely
|
|
based on the work done by XEROX at its Palo Alto Research Center (as are
|
|
the windowing systems of most small computers). While it has been compared
|
|
to MS Windows, it is nearer X-WINDOWS and Steve Adams states many of its
|
|
features were borrowed from X-WINDOWS. I can go into a long list of features
|
|
included with G-WINDOWS but this will make for a very long message. If you
|
|
wish, I can send you a copy of the G-WINDOWS DEMO Manual I prepared. You
|
|
might want to call GESPAC at 1-800-443-7722. They have spent a lot of money
|
|
preparing literature and have a video tape showing the features of G-WINDOWS.
|
|
They will send this to you at no charge. Frankly, I don't have the resources
|
|
required to prepare a comparable package.
|
|
|
|
As I alluded to above, you can send VT-100 control sequences to apps running
|
|
under G-WINDOWS. These are text mode sequences. Every text based application
|
|
I've tried works just fine under G-WINDOWS. However, if you want to take
|
|
advantage of the gfx capabilities in software you write, you will have to get
|
|
the Developer's Pak which contains all the necessary libraries. A user does
|
|
not need the Developer's Pak; only the programmer. This is no different than
|
|
you'll find with MS WINDOWS or X-WINDOWS. If you intend to write code under
|
|
G-WINDOWS, you'll find G-WINDOWS much easier to write for vs K-Windows. Joel
|
|
Hegberg posted example code a couple of months ago showing code from
|
|
G-WINDOWS and what he had to write under K-Windows, for the respective
|
|
versions of VIEWFAX, to accomplish a given task. BTW, (plug) if you order
|
|
the Developer's Pak with G-Windows, the Developer's Pak is $250. Otherwise,
|
|
it costs $300.
|
|
|
|
To answer the additional question raised by EMTWO in message #84285.
|
|
|
|
> Also, do I have to totally dump KWindows to run GWindows?
|
|
|
|
I don't know! But, it would seem to me you should be able to start G-WINDOWS
|
|
from a K-WINDOW screen.
|
|
|
|
Let me describe the process on the SYSTEMs IV & V. G-WINDOWS may be started
|
|
any one of a number of ways. I normally start it from the command line by
|
|
simply entering 'gwindows <ENTER>'. This command may be used regardless of
|
|
the text or gfx mode the hardware is in. You can also start G-WINDOWS from
|
|
the 'startup' file, as the command in the password file, or put it in the
|
|
'init' module as the default command. When G-WINDOWS starts, it first calls
|
|
the 'init' routine in the G-WINDOWS gfx driver (what is called the 'port').
|
|
The following is how I handle things - don't know how others do it. First,
|
|
I issue a 'getstat' call to the existing driver to determine the mode it is
|
|
in. This information is stored in the G-WINDOWS driver. The 'init' routine
|
|
then proceeds to initialize the gfx chip to the desired gfx mode and does the
|
|
other things necessary to support G-WINDOWS. The normal system driver is no
|
|
longer used; the G-WINDOWS driver takes control of the gfx. When exiting
|
|
G-WINDOWS, the 'terminate' routine is called. One of the final actions taken
|
|
is to issue a 'setstat' call to restore the original text or gfx mode and
|
|
return control of the gfx to the original driver.
|
|
|
|
So, unless there is something unique in K-Windows, I'd think a similar process
|
|
would be work.
|
|
|
|
To continue with EMTWO's comments -
|
|
|
|
> Ed has stated many times in the past that his MAIN source of income is not
|
|
> the Coco/home OSK users.
|
|
|
|
This is true. But I don't differentiate between customers. I give each and
|
|
all the best products and service I can. I
|
|
support all products I sell and do my best to insure they may obtain updates
|
|
as soon as possible. If you've looked at the file 'gwindows_ed.lzh' uploaded
|
|
to
|
|
to the database, you'll find 2 entries where DELMAR received updates for G-
|
|
WINDOWS. These were implemented promptly and all shipments of G-WINDOWS
|
|
were of the new version. Customers who purchased within a year automati-
|
|
cally received updates - in fact, all my G-WINDOWS customers received edition
|
|
45 updates at no charge. Edition 50 updates are going out now and updates
|
|
to customers where the 1 year free support has expired will cost them only
|
|
$25.00. Customers who purchased the Developer's Pak also receive updates
|
|
as outlined above.
|
|
|
|
When Ultra-C was introduced, Delmar was able to offer SYSTEM IV and V cus-
|
|
tomers Ultra-C at an introductory price of $200. MW's price was $600.
|
|
Ultra-C from MW is now priced at $1300. Owners and purchasers of SYSTEM IV
|
|
and V computers can still obtain Ultra-C from Delmar for only $300. Even
|
|
though a distributor of MW products, Delmar is not permitted to sell non-
|
|
SYSTEM IV & V customers at that price but must sell Ultra-C at $1300. (More
|
|
accurately, my discount is based on that price.) Copies obtained via the OEM
|
|
route may not be used - only copies obtained via MW's distributor channels.
|
|
I believe this demonstrates not only strong support for my customers but also
|
|
efforts to provide them economical support.
|
|
|
|
When version 3.0 of OSK is released, it will be made available to Delmar
|
|
customers promptly.
|
|
|
|
Understand, to compete successfully in the industrial market, only performance
|
|
counts. DELMAR CO is successful in the industrial market.
|
|
|
|
I did the port (the driver) for G-WINDOWS for the SYSTEMs IV and V and am
|
|
maintaining it. I do not depend on anyone else. Most of the code is in
|
|
assembler to maximize performance.
|
|
|
|
I use G-WINDOWS most of the time. I do programming for G-WINDOWS. Those who
|
|
attended the Atlanta show saw the G-WINDOWS version of VIEWFAX I did for Joel
|
|
Hegberg's ETHAFAX program.
|
|
|
|
Probably the most important factor to consider is that the port of G-WINDOWS
|
|
for the SYSTEMs IV and V computers has been subject to public scrutiny in
|
|
Chicago, San Diego and most recently, Atlanta. I've covered this in previous
|
|
messages.
|
|
|
|
I will be doing a series of articles about G-WINDOWS in Mark Griffith's
|
|
magazine.
|
|
|
|
Ed Gresick - DELMAR CO
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
84310 23-DEC 21:49 General Information
|
|
RE: MM/1 GWindows (Re: Msg 84307)
|
|
From: RANDYKWILSON To: EDELMAR
|
|
|
|
Ed, I have a question. Is G-windows multi-screen? The reason I ask is the
|
|
possibility of running it "under" KWin. If it is single screen, I think it
|
|
may be possible (all of five minutes thinking). Effectively you would
|
|
attack Kwin as an application that wants to do it's own screen manipulation.
|
|
KWin allows this. And this would allow hot-key toggling between the two.
|
|
Hmmmm.
|
|
|
|
Randy
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
84311 23-DEC 21:59 General Information
|
|
RE: MM/1 GWindows (Re: Msg 84310)
|
|
From: MITHELEN To: RANDYKWILSON
|
|
|
|
From what I saw of G-Windows last year, yes, it is single screen, and I
|
|
would also think it could easily be implemented "under" (or besides) K-Windows.
|
|
(MGR basically did this on the MM/1, grabbing its own screen memory, and
|
|
manipulateing it directly)
|
|
--
|
|
Paul Jerkatis - SandV BBS (708)352-0948: Chicago Area OS-9 Users Group
|
|
UUCP ...{balr|tellab5}!vpnet!sandv.chi.il.us!sysop
|
|
Internet: MITHELEN@Delphi.com
|
|
|
|
"Did you ever notice how cheep 99% of all BBS users are?" - Unknown
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
84312 23-DEC 22:14 General Information
|
|
RE: MM/1 GWindows (Re: Msg 84311)
|
|
From: EMTWO To: EDELMAR
|
|
|
|
My main point concerning Delmars and FHLs 'primary' customers was to show
|
|
that the 'MM1' Gwindows market isn't likely to make or break either company.
|
|
'Just the Facts, Mam...' This approach will be the most informative, least
|
|
damageing, best all around way to go. I do wish the FHL had waited to see
|
|
the DELMAR project safely dead and buried, before makeing his proposal. But
|
|
thats now a part of history.
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
84318 23-DEC 22:58 General Information
|
|
RE: MM/1 GWindows (Re: Msg 84311)
|
|
From: RANDYKWILSON To: MITHELEN
|
|
|
|
That's kinda what I'm thinking. On init, request the proper screen format
|
|
from windio, grab the addr and etc. then muck around with it yourself. This
|
|
will allow KWin enough info that the screen will stay in the hot-key rotation,
|
|
and windio can set the proper mode when the GWin screen is selected. Of
|
|
course, this means that GWin can't directly bang the VSC, it would have to
|
|
request changes from windio.
|
|
|
|
Randy
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
84342 24-DEC 19:31 General Information
|
|
RE: MM/1 GWindows (Re: Msg 84318)
|
|
From: EMTWO To: RANDYKWILSON
|
|
|
|
I was thinking more along the lines of what standard programs do, ie
|
|
request memory from the OS. GWin tells Windio that its '/W9'. Gwin gets its
|
|
screen 'address' from windio, and does anything it wants to that area of
|
|
memory. It stays in the HOT KEY rotation, but bypasses Windio once it is
|
|
given its original memory slot. After all, the 'STARS' screen saver does
|
|
direct manipulation of its screen memory, so you don't have to tell windio
|
|
everything you are doing.
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
84347 24-DEC 21:45 General Information
|
|
RE: MM/1 GWindows (Re: Msg 84342)
|
|
From: RANDYKWILSON To: EMTWO
|
|
|
|
Funny, that's exactly what I said. :>
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
84360 25-DEC 07:14 General Information
|
|
RE: MM/1 GWindows (Re: Msg 84310)
|
|
From: EDELMAR To: RANDYKWILSON
|
|
|
|
|
|
Randy,
|
|
|
|
> Is G-windows multi-screen?
|
|
|
|
No, G-WINDOWS is single screen, multi-window.
|
|
|
|
Following Paul's comments (#84311) and your response (#84318) I think I
|
|
see what you're driving at. Let me state first that much of the inards of
|
|
WFM (the window file manager) are proprietary. While I know some of the
|
|
things it does and can guess at some others, I really know very little about
|
|
what it expects except from the driver. (That's what the port is all about.)
|
|
I know nothing about K-Windows and the same about windio. Having said that,
|
|
here are my thoughts.
|
|
|
|
The question of 'hot-keying' has been raised before. I didn't know the
|
|
answers then and I still don't. I have discussed this with Steve Adams and,
|
|
not knowing anything about K-Windows, he didn't want to make any comments or
|
|
suggestions. I have given it some thought and the following is some of my
|
|
thinking. Some of the concerns may not be a problem and hopefully, I'm
|
|
identifying the main problem areas and haven't missed anything significant.
|
|
|
|
I thought I saw some place in past discussions that the address for each
|
|
window is available. If so, then G-WINDOWS could use the address of the
|
|
window it was started from as its base address. Is the resolution (horizontal
|
|
and vertical) also available? If this information is available, the 'init'
|
|
routine in G-WINDOWS (which is under the 'porters' control) could examine
|
|
this information to insure the window was of sufficient size. If not, it
|
|
would simply return an error message informing the user to use a larger
|
|
window. I'm also assuming that K-Windows takes care of redrawing the screen
|
|
for each screen as they're selected. If I understand things correctly,
|
|
K-Windows would think G-WINDOWS is simply another application but it will
|
|
not know the memory requirements for G-WINDOWS; only what the screen needs.
|
|
|
|
If the address and/or resolution (screen size) information is not available
|
|
then we could have a disaster on our hands. G-WINDOWS could (and according
|
|
to Murphy's Law will) overwrite one or more other K-Windows' screens.
|
|
|
|
The following may not be a problem at all or, it may turn out to be a serious
|
|
problem. Again, my ignorance of K-Windows will be showing.
|
|
|
|
As I understand K-Windows, while you can have many background processes
|
|
running from a given screen, you can have only one process writing to the
|
|
screen. I believe this is true whether it is the active screen or not;
|
|
i.e., if an inactive screen has been written to, when it is made active
|
|
the screen is shown updated. The question relates to the number of processes
|
|
writing to a given screen. When G-WINDOWS is the active screen, I don't
|
|
see that there should be any problem. G-WINDOWS permits processes to write
|
|
to their window all the time regardless of the state of the window (active,
|
|
inactive or hibernating). However, what happens when the screen is made
|
|
'inactive'. Is there some kind of limitation within K-Windows which might
|
|
cause problems - either to K-Windows itself or to G-WINDOWS? Or does
|
|
K-Windows simply let OS-9 do its thing here?
|
|
|
|
I raise this question because of a problem reported to me recently by one of
|
|
my customers. He is using many named pipes; i.e., about 40 of them. You can
|
|
create that many (and more). But, it turns out the kernel can only keep track
|
|
of 32 named pipes and what processes are using them. This number cannot be
|
|
altered in the 'init' module - there is no entry for it. MW did confirm this
|
|
limitation.
|
|
|
|
While the above does not relate directly to my question above, I am concerned
|
|
about surprises. I like to get as much information in advance as possible.
|
|
|
|
'Hot-keying' from the screen running G-WINDOWS might be another problem.
|
|
Assuming the mouse and keyboard outputs are sent to G-WINDOWS, how much
|
|
filtering is done by K-Windows? I believe certain keys are intercepted by
|
|
K-Windows and not passed on. Is this correct? And if so what keys are they?
|
|
How is mouse information passed? In addition to making this information
|
|
available to apps, G-WINDOWS window file manager (wfm) also stores the current
|
|
mouse position for its use. Off the top of my head, I think the way G-WINDOWS
|
|
receives keyboard and mouse information will have to altered but I don't
|
|
know what's involved. It may be that just a change to the window descriptor
|
|
'win' will work. Or, maybe simply getting the respective paths is the way
|
|
to go. Don't need G-WINDOWS getting information not intended for it. One
|
|
other question, G-WINDOWS does not use SCF, rather the window file manager
|
|
(wfm) replaces it. I don't know what, if any, problems that might create
|
|
for K-Windows.
|
|
|
|
The following will give you an idea of the G-WINDOWS hierarchy structure -
|
|
|
|
OS-9 Kernel
|
|
|
|
|
--- G-WINDOWS starts ---
|
|
|
|
|
Window File Manager
|
|
|
|
|
Device Driver 'null'
|
|
|
|
|
--- From here down is the 'port' ---
|
|
|
|
|
Window Descriptor 'win'
|
|
|
|
|
------------------------------------------
|
|
| | |
|
|
Keyboard Driver Mouse Driver CRT Driver
|
|
| | |
|
|
Keyboard Descriptor Mouse Descriptor CRT Descriptor
|
|
|
|
Ed
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
84365 25-DEC 17:06 General Information
|
|
RE: MM/1 GWindows (Re: Msg 84360)
|
|
From: RANDYKWILSON To: EDELMAR
|
|
|
|
Ed,
|
|
I did a lot of thinking on this last night, and came up with the same
|
|
concerns you did. I'm in the same situation, except reversed. I don't know
|
|
enough about Gwin to say for sure how such an interface would work.
|
|
|
|
I will say that I'd be much more interested in GWin if it would run in
|
|
harmony with KWin. I've been using multi-screen systems far too long.
|
|
Xterminals drive me batty for this reason. :>
|
|
|
|
Randy
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
84367 25-DEC 17:59 General Information
|
|
RE: MM/1 GWindows (Re: Msg 84365)
|
|
From: ILLUSIONIST To: RANDYKWILSON
|
|
|
|
I agree.. that is one of my concerns when I move to an OSk machine, Iam
|
|
used to the coco windowing system, ie, multiable screens.. Now, while
|
|
I can work and get used to single screen windowing systems (like X,MS Windows,
|
|
and the Mac) if _I_ am going to plunk down my $1500 or so, I shouldnt
|
|
_have_ to get used to anything.. While I understand the benfits of Gwin,
|
|
and agree that it definatly is a benifit for all OSk machines to have Gwin.
|
|
available to it, for my money I _need_ multi-screens..I realize this is
|
|
probably a bit early to bring up, I was wondering if multiable Gwin. sessions
|
|
could be done.. I am pretty sure Gwin allows this (the Kix systems can have
|
|
"extra" monitors, all running gwin, and since a window under Kwin SHOULD
|
|
be treated as just another monitor......) I guess the real question is
|
|
if Kwin is mature enough..(documentation may say one thing, but hey, anyone
|
|
who has had the tandy manuals knows what I am getting at) hopefulley no
|
|
bugs in Kwin will hinder this..
|
|
|
|
maybe a few years from now we will see MGR,Gwindows,and Kwindows all running
|
|
side by side..
|
|
|
|
I can visualize those systems being in harmony, but I wonder if DELMAR and
|
|
FHL will be able to as well <ducking into /w> <whew! that was a close one>
|
|
|
|
:) -* Mike
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
84368 25-DEC 19:34 General Information
|
|
RE: MM/1 GWindows (Re: Msg 84367)
|
|
From: COLORSYSTEMS To: ILLUSIONIST
|
|
|
|
>
|
|
> maybe a few years from now we will see MGR,Gwindows,and Kwindows all
|
|
> running side by side..
|
|
>
|
|
|
|
That may not be as long as you think ... can't say nothing more at the
|
|
moment!!
|
|
|
|
------------------------------------
|
|
Zack C Sessions
|
|
ColorSystems
|
|
|
|
"I am Homer of Borg, prepare to be assimi ... OOOOHHH, DOUGHNUTS!"
|
|
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
84369 25-DEC 19:44 General Information
|
|
RE: MM/1 GWindows (Re: Msg 84368)
|
|
From: ILLUSIONIST To: COLORSYSTEMS
|
|
|
|
:) oh, I like hints. :). Dont worry I wont ask.
|
|
|
|
-* Mike
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
84382 26-DEC 02:28 General Information
|
|
RE: MM/1 GWindows (Re: Msg 84307)
|
|
From: MREGC To: EDELMAR
|
|
|
|
Ed,
|
|
You've got another order in the mail if you can assure me of two things...
|
|
|
|
1. The check won't be cashed until no more than 2 weeks before shipping.
|
|
|
|
2. I'll be given at least 2 weeks notice before the check is cashed, or the
|
|
credit card charged.
|
|
|
|
...Eric...
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
84385 26-DEC 12:39 General Information
|
|
RE: MM/1 GWindows (Re: Msg 84360)
|
|
From: NIMITZ To: EDELMAR (NR)
|
|
|
|
Perhaps this is one reason for a windowing standards committee. ;)
|
|
|
|
Stepping off soap box momentarily! ;)
|
|
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
84386 26-DEC 13:23 General Information
|
|
RE: MM/1 GWindows (Re: Msg 84360)
|
|
From: RANDYKWILSON To: EDELMAR (NR)
|
|
|
|
All,
|
|
Due to the length, I originally posted this is mail. Ed made the very
|
|
valid point that the more people involved in the discussion, the better.
|
|
So, I'm reinserting it into this forum thread, and will follow with his
|
|
reply.
|
|
|
|
Ed,
|
|
|
|
I wrote this last night, before recieving your reply. It answers a few
|
|
of your questions, and raises some of the same concerns.
|
|
|
|
=============================================================================
|
|
After thinking on it a while, I agree that there are poential pitfalls. I
|
|
do not see the crt as a problem, rather the mouse and keyboard.
|
|
|
|
Early on, you mentioned that Gwin can be started and ended by the user. This
|
|
implies that there is another console driver in the system. KWin does not
|
|
do this on the mm/1, as it is the *only* console driver we have. I have no
|
|
idea how this dynamic start/stop is done. Do you just start a GWin application
|
|
that causes initialization, or is there a seperate "setup" program that
|
|
initializes and then chains to [G-View], or ????. Knowing this could help
|
|
resolve some of the detail mechanics.
|
|
|
|
|
|
The whole problem boils down to this. The current/only console driver is
|
|
multi-screening. G-Windows will either have to cooperate with it, or will
|
|
have to totally replace it.
|
|
|
|
Kwin is very much like the CoCo windowing system, and the mm/1 hardware is
|
|
closer to the coco than, say, a VGA card. Video memory is in main system
|
|
memory. Rather than copying memory in and out of the video memory, you just
|
|
point the video chip at a different block of main memory. To change screens,
|
|
you just reload the screen type parameters and base addr into the VSC, and
|
|
then ignore. From there out, you just twiddle the bits in the screen memory.
|
|
The VSC will display it.
|
|
|
|
I can think of many possible ways to do the crt part. A lot depends on how
|
|
GWin gets initialized. Assuming a "startup" program, you could:
|
|
|
|
o- ask Windio for window and screen info. If window is not full screen,
|
|
error out.
|
|
o- change the screen type/size to whatever you want.
|
|
o- ask Windio for screen info again (addr may have changed do to redef
|
|
of window)
|
|
o- Dup the Kwin path up high, and close std in/out/err.
|
|
o- Open Gwin dev, dup to std in/out/err.
|
|
o- Pass the screen/window info to the GWin driver.
|
|
|
|
At this point, we would have paths open in both windowing systems pointing
|
|
to the same chunk of memory. The Gwindow driver can request it's own backing-
|
|
store memory from the kernel, and diddle with the screens memory as much as
|
|
it wants. KWin won't care. Effectively, GWin requests it's screen resources
|
|
from KWin rather than the system, so that Kwin can keep it in the screen
|
|
rotation. After that, Kwin is out of the display picture.
|
|
|
|
The only thing I can currently think of where GWin would want to change the
|
|
hardware is to reset the CLUT/palette controller. It would need to do this
|
|
through the KWin path, so that they can be properly reset upon screen
|
|
hide/restore. This is done with a setstat call.
|
|
|
|
So far I can think of one potential problem. KWin allows you to move windows,
|
|
including dropping one on top of another (tiling). This includes the ability
|
|
to drag windows from one screen to another. If Mr. Joe E. User decided to drag
|
|
a Kwin window and drop it in the GWin screen, the results would not be pretty.
|
|
I'll play a bit to see how KWin deals with non-sharable devices. :>
|
|
|
|
Another option would be to make a new KWin device descriptor (say /G101)
|
|
already set to the type expected by GWin. This would be more workable if
|
|
GWin is auto-init via starting an app.
|
|
|
|
o- app starts and opens dev /GWin
|
|
o- if /GWin is not yet init'd, the drivers init routine is called. This
|
|
routine would open Kwin dev /G101, and procede as above.
|
|
|
|
The bottom line of this design is KWin has one window open on a screen that
|
|
isn't doing much activity. GWin is subdividing this screen into multiple
|
|
windows.
|
|
All I$Writes will be going, via the GWin device, to the GWin driver, which is
|
|
responsable for getting it to the right "sub-window". KWin will know nothing
|
|
about this, and doesn't need to know.
|
|
|
|
Now for the hard part. KWin is laid out something like this:
|
|
|
|
OS9-Kernel
|
|
|
|
|
WCF
|
|
|
|
|
WData--------------WindIO-------------------------------
|
|
| | | |
|
|
window mouse keyboard sound
|
|
descriptors {=======subdrivers=======}
|
|
[term, w, w1-w8]
|
|
|
|
WData is a data module containing who-knows-what. I do know that all of the
|
|
mouse info is in there. The mouse and keyboard drivers are the real sticker.
|
|
They are not standalone, they are subroutines for Windio. This is so that the
|
|
info can be sent to the current active window (keydriver; mouse click), or to
|
|
all screens (auto-follow mouse position) as needed.
|
|
o- Gwin can not use it's own mouse and keyboard drivers as it will not know
|
|
when it owns the devices, and would conflict with KWin attempting to
|
|
read at the same time
|
|
o- KWin can not fully handle them for GWin, as it doesn't know about the
|
|
sub-windows; it thinks it's dealing with one big window.
|
|
|
|
The only answer I have here is GWin would have to constantly poll Kwin for
|
|
keyboard input and mouse data, and do it's own vectoring/buffering. The KWin
|
|
descriptor would have to have all editing data nulled, and the auto- follow
|
|
mouse turned off(???). Definately don't want double editing done. Would it
|
|
possible to (at preset intervals) to issue a SS.Ready/I$Read and a SS.Mouse call
|
|
|
|
(or dig mouse data out of WData) to the KWin path? While I'm sure this is
|
|
possible, it may prove a bit sluggish.
|
|
|
|
==============================================================================
|
|
|
|
|
|
Okay, I'll try to answer some of your specific questions.
|
|
|
|
>inactive or hibernating). However, what happens when the screen is made >
|
|
'inactive'. Is there some kind of limitation within K-Windows which might >
|
|
cause problems - either to K-Windows itself or to G-WINDOWS? Or does >K-Windows
|
|
|
|
simply let OS-9 do its thing here?
|
|
|
|
Paul and I are suggesting that GWin does it's own bit manipulation in the
|
|
screen memory. The only thing Kwin would do is setup the VSC for this screen
|
|
when it is selected by the user. All app I$Writ* calls would go through the GWin
|
|
|
|
driver; Kwin won't get a chance to screw them up.
|
|
|
|
>Assuming the mouse and keyboard outputs are sent to G-WINDOWS, how much >
|
|
filtering is done by K-Windows? I believe certain keys are intercepted by >K-
|
|
Windows and not passed on. Is this correct? And if so what keys are they?
|
|
|
|
With the descriptor nulled out, KWin only traps the window/screen control
|
|
codes. These are alt[F1-F10], F9, F10; <alt><cntrl> space, A, and B; and <CNTRL>
|
|
|
|
<up>, <down>, <right>, <left>, and <enter>. These are used to select windows
|
|
(F*); move and resize; and keyboard mouse. Also, Kwin uses the right mouse
|
|
button to change windows, and the center (if present) for cut-n-paste. I'm not
|
|
sure if these mouse "features" can be turned off.
|
|
|
|
>How is mouse information passed? In addition to making this information >
|
|
available to apps, G-WINDOWS window file manager (wfm) also stores the >current
|
|
mouse position for its use.
|
|
|
|
The are multiple getstats for the mouse info. I would guess that GWin would use
|
|
|
|
the "short" version, which is screen-x, screen-y, and button bitmap. Or, it
|
|
could just directly dig the data out of WData.
|
|
|
|
Mike Sweet (DODGECOLT) has written and uploaded here a fairly complete doc on
|
|
KWindows. It's called Windio_ref2.ar, I believe.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Randy
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
84387 26-DEC 13:23 General Information
|
|
RE: MM/1 GWindows (Re: Msg 84386)
|
|
From: RANDYKWILSON To: RANDYKWILSON (NR)
|
|
|
|
All,
|
|
This is Ed's email reply to me, with the "Press RETURN for more" prompts
|
|
removed. :>
|
|
|
|
|
|
Randy,
|
|
|
|
|
|
I have no problem with this being on the forum. The more involved, the
|
|
better the chances of getting good information and suggestions and a better
|
|
port. You can post my response, also.
|
|
|
|
|
|
> Early on, you mentioned that Gwin can be started and ended by the user. This
|
|
|
|
> implies that there is another console driver in the system. KWin does not
|
|
> do this on the mm/1, as it is the *only* console driver we have. I have no
|
|
> idea how this dynamic start/stop is done. Do you just start a GWin applicati
|
|
on
|
|
> that causes initialization, or is there a seperate "setup" program that
|
|
> initializes and then chains to [G-View], or ????. Knowing this could help
|
|
> resolve some of the detail mechanics.
|
|
|
|
On the SYSTEMs IV & V, we have a console driver which we provide. Many
|
|
OEM's do the same thing. Other OEM's (GESPAC, Hazelwood/FHL and a couple of
|
|
others) use G-WINDOWS as their console device. Nothing necessarily wrong with
|
|
|
|
either approach. It's a matter of what each thinks is best for his market.
|
|
Most video implementations today use a separate bank of memory for video and
|
|
this has a fixed, maximum size. The VSC chip appears to be unique in that it
|
|
|
|
uses system memory and can dynamically allocate the necessary video memory.
|
|
Most gfx chip sets do allow a limited amount of this but only with video
|
|
memory and only in the lower res and text modes. Thus, by switching pages
|
|
or offsets (or whatever the mechanism is) you can view other portions of
|
|
video memory. But I think the way the VSC chip does it is much better.
|
|
|
|
When there is a separate console driver, a separate startup file (usually
|
|
called 'startup.gw') can be used. It will load the drivers, descriptors,
|
|
and other modules necessary for G-WINDOWS. The first application to use
|
|
G-WINDOWS will initialize G-WINDOWS (actually the drivers). This is usually
|
|
DESKTOP and/or the first shell window. But, it can be done other ways. For
|
|
example, I will be delivering a system in January which has 2 VGA cards in it.
|
|
|
|
All the necessary modules will be placed in the bootfile and the init module
|
|
will call the application (written under ControlCalc). The regular startup
|
|
file will still be called to do the normal initializations, etc. and call a
|
|
second program (ControlCalc also) which will run on the second vga card and
|
|
monitor. For changes, debugging, etc., the system can boot from a floppy
|
|
drive which will have the more traditional modules and bring up the normal
|
|
shell. (Actually, they're using M-Shell.) Incidently, G-View and DESKTOP
|
|
are simply apps that run under G-WINDOWS.
|
|
|
|
There is one other major difference. In addition to writing to the screen
|
|
or more properly a window, G-WINDOWS also writes the same information to a
|
|
buffer in system memory associated with that window. Thus, dealing with
|
|
over-lapping windows, tiled windows or hibernating windows is very simple.
|
|
G-WINDOWS simply copies the associated buffer to the screen. This mechanizm
|
|
could be employed to clean up a screen that was inadvertantly messed up
|
|
by dragging a K-Windows screen on it.
|
|
|
|
All-in-all, it appears that most, if not all, the problems associated with
|
|
the display are resolvable - but you did say something about the pallete
|
|
controller. I think K-Windows does this with hardware. G-WINDOWS can do
|
|
this with software - I think the TC-70 port did it with software since it
|
|
did not have a hardware palette controller. Will require some investigation.
|
|
|
|
I admit I was sorry to read you agreed that the keyboard/mouse may be the
|
|
major stumbling block. I was hoping you'd tell me I was making a mountain
|
|
out of a mole hill <g>. But so far, it doesn't necessarily appear to be
|
|
an insurmountable problem. Just going to take a lot of work resolving it.
|
|
One thing I don't want to do is patch either windio and associated modules
|
|
or wfm and it's associated modules. To my thinking, that is a no-no.
|
|
|
|
I'm going to study your message more and download Mike Sweet's file. If
|
|
we can get more people involved, maybe we can come up with an optimum
|
|
solution sooner. It would be nice if G-WINDOWS were treated simply as
|
|
another app by K-Windows. Now, if NIMITZ can get the port of K-Windows for
|
|
the SYSTEMs IV & V done .... <g>.
|
|
|
|
Ed
|
|
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
End of Thread.
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
84313 23-DEC 22:17 General Information
|
|
RE: my MM/1a is noisy (Re: Msg 84288)
|
|
From: EMTWO To: COLORSYSTEMS
|
|
|
|
I would say the corner posts nearest the connectors on BOTH boards would
|
|
be your best shot. Thats the Sound,video connectors<g>.
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
84319 23-DEC 23:00 General Information
|
|
RE: my MM/1a is noisy (Re: Msg 84275)
|
|
From: JOHNREED To: COLORSYSTEMS
|
|
|
|
> Do any of you other MM/1a owners use a cordless telephone? If so, are you
|
|
> able to talk on it while the MM/1a is turned on?
|
|
>
|
|
|
|
No cordless phone here, but the MM/1a does a lot LESS to
|
|
my TV set than the "386" box on the same desk. I forget
|
|
what freq range those cordless phones use between the
|
|
portable and stationary part, but I wonder if changing
|
|
your CPU speed up or down a step makes a difference?
|
|
|
|
|
|
John R. Wainwright
|
|
|
|
<<CIS -- 72517,676>> <<DELPHI -- JOHNREED>>
|
|
|
|
*********** InfoXpress ************
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
End of Thread.
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
84314 23-DEC 22:26 General Information
|
|
RE: PT68K (Re: Msg 84296)
|
|
From: ROYBUR To: MROWEN01 (NR)
|
|
|
|
i have a Delmar System IV, which is a PT68-K4 custom-assembled and sold by
|
|
Delmar Co. so i can at least answer your first question: yes, it can be used
|
|
as a terminal system, and a coco 3 makes a pretty good terminal, too. no, you
|
|
do not _need_ to have a keyboard and monitor attached to the K4, but you get
|
|
a much nicer display if you do hook 'em up! <g> for the best info about these
|
|
machines and available software, you might want to give ed gresick a yell -
|
|
he's EDELMAR here on delphi. 8*)............roy
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
84322 24-DEC 00:01 General Information
|
|
RE: PT68K (Re: Msg 84296)
|
|
From: JES68K To: MROWEN01 (NR)
|
|
|
|
I have had my PT68K4 (ordered the first kit at the Atlanta CoCoFEST) four
|
|
years ago this last October ..... and have had a lot of fun with it .....
|
|
took only two weeks to deliver (MM/1 owners sometimes waited two years).
|
|
Questions??? Fire away!
|
|
|
|
Operating Systems: REX and OSK ... do get REX if you are going to build
|
|
the motherboard up one kit at a time as it is cheap ($20 or so) and you
|
|
can get source code for it if needed (also cheap). OSK cost me $300 and
|
|
was the last big purchase.
|
|
|
|
I built up the motherboard a stage at a time, using the kits from Peripheral
|
|
Technology ..... the first goal was serial terminal operation ..... so YES
|
|
you can use it that way (until more $$$ appear in the wallet). OSK will
|
|
run in 1/2 meg of dram if I remember right ... I think I used 1 Meg though.
|
|
|
|
The pc hardware you might have already (and need): XT keyboard (must be
|
|
switched to XT mode -- cannot be auto-detect kind), a 1.44MB or 1.2MB
|
|
floppy drive is best, but you could probably use a 720KB to start.
|
|
I added a 40MB MFM hard drive using a WD controller card. IDE is available
|
|
from Peripheral Technology (recommended that you get it from them as to
|
|
make sure it has good timing and works correctly ... will come with drivers),
|
|
but MFM is still standard I believe and comes with your OSK purchase.
|
|
I started with monochrome video and then switched later to PerfectView
|
|
SVGA card, again monochrome I believe is considered standard and the upgraded
|
|
drivers come with the PerfectView (or whatever ET-4000 card is currently
|
|
being supplied).
|
|
|
|
Oh, some kits can be obtained from your parts bin or other source ....
|
|
for example, I got all my XT slot connectors from a old motherboard I
|
|
bought for $5 at Delta Electronics here in the Atlanta area. Plus the
|
|
kit for XT keyboard interface I ordered mailorder and saved some. Plus,
|
|
I got into the habit of buying my dram in 1/2 MB chunks every Friday
|
|
(pay day ya know!) on the way home from work .... it seemed to help
|
|
buying it in $32 chunks that way til I got the full 4MB populated.
|
|
ADVICE: stay away from NEC memory chips ... they past the dram tester
|
|
but fail when you run the memory test program under multi-tasking
|
|
operations ..... I probably have four different brands and they all work
|
|
fine except NEC chips.
|
|
|
|
About software: although there is not tons of identical programs to choose
|
|
from (like in MS-DOS world), there is plenty to keep you busy til you are
|
|
ready to program some of your own. Most if not all the standard utilities
|
|
are all available.
|
|
|
|
I will be adding an internal modem and Soundblaster sound card to my PT68K4
|
|
this Christmas and getting some more play time on the system.
|
|
|
|
Such things as a GIF viewer and Flicker viewer are available for picture
|
|
viewing.
|
|
|
|
Ask more questions and I am sure any one of the PT owners here on Delphi
|
|
can answer with complete details.
|
|
|
|
=== Jesse ===
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
84328 24-DEC 01:41 General Information
|
|
RE: PT68K (Re: Msg 84322)
|
|
From: ILLUSIONIST To: JES68K
|
|
|
|
Where can I get pricing and tech. stats for the PT68k boards? I am planning
|
|
to build up a PT68k system for myself soon (bought an old PT68K2 awhile
|
|
back, but dismantled it in favor of using alot of its parts in my 486)
|
|
I never had the PT number or address for info. Also, Ed (DELMAR) told
|
|
me that there is a version of Minix for the System IV, so there are
|
|
a few different OS's available..which I like..I like OS-9, but UNIX
|
|
ranks up there among my top 5 OS's (OS-9,UNIX,NeXT,Mac OS,DOS) I havent
|
|
had all that much experience with NeXT, but from what I have had
|
|
(about a week at a NeXT system, with full documentation) I like..
|
|
in anycase, if you could give me a # for PT, I would appreciate it..
|
|
|
|
-* Mike
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
84348 24-DEC 22:41 General Information
|
|
RE: PT68K (Re: Msg 84328)
|
|
From: JES68K To: ILLUSIONIST
|
|
|
|
Yes, Minix was another OS that some PT owners had an interest in.
|
|
I have always wanted to port the Sinclair QL's OS known as QDOS to the
|
|
PT .... I have both FDC interfaces implemented on my motherboard and
|
|
someday will do it ( I have a QL and it uses the same FDC as the older
|
|
PT design used and it optional on the K4 motherboard.) There is a ton of
|
|
software for the QL available for just the cost of copying thru one of the
|
|
QL Users groups (about ninety 720K disks worth at $1 per disk).
|
|
|
|
Peripheral Technology phone number: (404) 973-2156 in Marietta, Georgia.
|
|
If you don't have tech info on the K2, they should be able to provide it.
|
|
|
|
=== Jesse ===
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
End of Thread.
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
84321 23-DEC 23:18 General Information
|
|
RE: CD-I units identical (Re: Msg 84282)
|
|
From: JES68K To: BRUCEGERST
|
|
|
|
Thanks so much for the info on the CD-I units ..... I thought someone would
|
|
the complete facts!
|
|
=== Jesse ===
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
84324 24-DEC 00:28 General Information
|
|
RE: ghostscript (Re: Msg 84172)
|
|
From: WOLFDEN To: REVWCP
|
|
|
|
> ..And don't forget to attend your house of worship during this holy season.
|
|
> (Well since everyone else was advertising who they work for...)
|
|
> With all best wishes,
|
|
> Brother Jeremy, CSJW
|
|
|
|
I like your message! My church had an awesome Christmas pageant last night.
|
|
Then myself and my roomate drove 40 miles into the foothills to Grass Valley
|
|
(CA) to see a live Nativity scene. It was rather cool! We enjoyed looking
|
|
around Nevada City and Grass Valley. All this time we were listening to
|
|
Contempary Christian Christmas songs on the radio... a neat way of ending
|
|
the Sunday before Christmas.
|
|
|
|
* Merry Christmas from Jim Vestal and Narnia BBS, Marysville, CA
|
|
*** "Help put Christ back into Christmas"
|
|
***** Internet: sysop@narnia.citrus.sac.ca.us
|
|
******* StG Net: SysOp@Narnia "an exclusively OS-9 Network"
|
|
********* Delphi: wolfden@Delphi.com put "to Jim" in the subject
|
|
| (916) 743-4264 12a-7am BBS, voice during the day
|
|
-------
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
84327 24-DEC 01:27 General Information
|
|
RE: ghostscript (Re: Msg 84324)
|
|
From: REVWCP To: WOLFDEN (NR)
|
|
|
|
A very Merry and Blessed Christmas to you. --Jeremy
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
End of Thread.
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
84329 24-DEC 02:01 General Information
|
|
cataloge
|
|
From: RGT To: NIMITZ
|
|
|
|
Please send one of your catologes.
|
|
My address is (some where below this line)
|
|
______________________________________________
|
|
BRIAN TIETZ
|
|
1413 JASMINE CIRCLE
|
|
ROHNERT PARK CALIF.
|
|
94928
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
84330 24-DEC 02:06 Programmers Den
|
|
RE: memory segments (Re: Msg 84279)
|
|
From: PAGAN To: MIKE_GUZZI
|
|
|
|
>actually what you need to do is use the F$GPrDsc call and maybe the F$CpyMem
|
|
>to copy in the DAT Images of a process. pmap has source code and shows how
|
|
>its done, i don't have the book handy to tell you but if you have INSIDE OS9
|
|
>LEVEL II you can find what you need
|
|
|
|
Thanks, I'd overlooked that call.
|
|
|
|
This is for OS9/68000. You're only allowed 32 segments so if a program has
|
|
to do a lot of memory allocation and deallocation it's a good idea to check
|
|
occasionally. Armed with F$GPrDsc I found a routine in the C library (!)
|
|
that will get me a copy of the process descriptor which has a list of all
|
|
the segments used so far.
|
|
|
|
Stephen (PAGAN)
|
|
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
84362 25-DEC 14:08 Programmers Den
|
|
RE: memory segments (Re: Msg 84330)
|
|
From: MIKE_GUZZI To: PAGAN
|
|
|
|
Well im sure the prinicpals will apply for 68000 os9 as well
|
|
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
End of Thread.
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
84333 24-DEC 03:39 General Information
|
|
Seasons Greetings
|
|
From: EDELMAR To: ALL
|
|
|
|
We would like to wish all a Joyous Christmas.
|
|
|
|
Betty and Ed Gresick
|
|
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
84349 24-DEC 23:14 General Information
|
|
RE: Seasons Greetings (Re: Msg 84333)
|
|
From: JOELHEGBERG To: EDELMAR
|
|
|
|
> We would like to wish all a Joyous Christmas.
|
|
>
|
|
> Betty and Ed Gresick
|
|
|
|
Very Merry Christmas to both of you!
|
|
|
|
|
|
-- Joel Mathew Hegberg.
|
|
|
|
Delphi : JOELHEGBERG
|
|
GEnie : j.hegberg
|
|
Internet : JoelHegberg@delphi.com
|
|
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
End of Thread.
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
84337 24-DEC 15:51 General Information
|
|
Gshell
|
|
From: ILLUSIONIST To: ALL
|
|
|
|
Does anyone know of a hardware problem that would cause GShell to crash
|
|
when there is a "rollover" of the menu bar? I suspect hardware as my problem
|
|
since I recently booted from a floppy that I used to run Gshell on all
|
|
the time.. the only module differences was to the floppy DMODE settings,
|
|
and REL, and maybe OS9p1 (I patched REL with the patch that is here in the
|
|
DB's for putting it in ROM) and my OS9p1 is all hacked up and different..
|
|
Anyway..I am looking to solve this problem but cant seem to find the source..
|
|
any help will be appreciated..
|
|
|
|
-* Mike
|
|
|
|
BTW, I am using STOCK windint, and tried the STOCK gshell too..
|
|
|
|
I am gonna try re-building my system from the tandy masters..try and find
|
|
a specific module that is at fault here..
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
84338 24-DEC 15:58 OSK Applications
|
|
RE: tc70 hi speedmodem (Re: Msg 84277)
|
|
From: THUNDERFNGRS To: FHOGG
|
|
|
|
Great! I did check my wiring on rts/cts and I hooked rts-rts and cts-cts. I
|
|
don't
|
|
think that you have to reverse them like transmit and receive.
|
|
I am looking forward to getting those files. I was a little impatient and due
|
|
to a couple of other things...... I bought a new mac!
|
|
I hope to get osk for it ... one day, and run a bulletin board for my customers
|
|
and
|
|
manage there desktop publishing files. The mac will eventually serve as a
|
|
backup to my tomcat tc70! (once I can afford macos9).
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
84340 24-DEC 17:48 General Information
|
|
Nintendo controllers
|
|
From: ILLUSIONIST To: ALL
|
|
|
|
does anyone know if the NES/SNES controller pads could be made to work
|
|
with the coco? and what would be needed?
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
84351 24-DEC 23:25 General Information
|
|
RE: Nintendo controllers (Re: Msg 84340)
|
|
From: COCOKIWI To: ILLUSIONIST
|
|
|
|
There was an article in!AH! here it is....Popular Electronics..page 34...
|
|
December 93......the IBM joystk is the same as the coco..but is wired
|
|
slightly differently....this could work......the full fledged item goes for
|
|
$20.00.....+ $2.00 shipping......has a 15pin connector for IBM on it!
|
|
can get item from.....
|
|
|
|
Larry L.Cameron
|
|
7020 Grand Canyon #243,
|
|
Austin,TX.78752
|
|
Ph # <512>-467-9532....
|
|
|
|
If you want to build it yourself....$15.00 + shipping.....
|
|
|
|
The one you want is the NinJA-15......this is the IBM version.....
|
|
the other is the NinJA-9..for the Atari-style 9 pin game ports used on
|
|
the Amega & atari computers.........DON.T mention CoCo<grin> you could
|
|
and he would prob make it to suit!<g>......merry Xmas....Dennis...
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
84357 25-DEC 00:56 General Information
|
|
RE: Nintendo controllers (Re: Msg 84351)
|
|
From: ILLUSIONIST To: COCOKIWI
|
|
|
|
hmm.. I am unsure of what you mean, do you mean there is a device to
|
|
let the nintendo controllers be used with the IBM? if so, I would then
|
|
have to convert the IBM side to fit a coco..but since you said they are
|
|
the same....also is this for Super nintendo, or regular nintendo..
|
|
|
|
-* Mike
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
84371 25-DEC 21:43 General Information
|
|
RE: Nintendo controllers (Re: Msg 84357)
|
|
From: COCOKIWI To: ILLUSIONIST
|
|
|
|
YES.....yes...../The SNES plug is different,and is not quite the same as
|
|
they added some switches......So.tis not for SNES....<grin>..Regular only!
|
|
Dennis........
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
End of Thread.
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
84346 24-DEC 21:44 General Information
|
|
holidayes
|
|
From: NIMITZ To: ALL
|
|
|
|
Merry Christmas all!!
|
|
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
84350 24-DEC 23:14 General Information
|
|
RE: holidayes (Re: Msg 84346)
|
|
From: JOELHEGBERG To: NIMITZ
|
|
|
|
> Merry Christmas all!!
|
|
|
|
Merry Christmas, David!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
-- Joel Mathew Hegberg.
|
|
|
|
Delphi : JOELHEGBERG
|
|
GEnie : j.hegberg
|
|
Internet : JoelHegberg@delphi.com
|
|
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
End of Thread.
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
84356 25-DEC 00:35 OSK Applications
|
|
|
|
From: CBJ To: ALL
|
|
|
|
May everybody have a happy and safe holiday season. My best wishes are
|
|
extended to all of you here on Delphi.
|
|
Carl
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
84358 25-DEC 01:43 General Information
|
|
RE: CD-I units identical? (Re: Msg 84214)
|
|
From: PHXKEN To: WA2EGP (NR)
|
|
|
|
Sears salesman told me that the difference between the Magnavox and the
|
|
Phillips models of the CD-i is that the Phillips has the SVHS connection
|
|
and the Magnavox does not and that this Christmas, the Phillips is being
|
|
marketed with the software (CD) as being demonstrated in the store.
|
|
But, beware, because Sears salesman also said that the model being sold
|
|
this Christmas should be faster than the previous model and he could
|
|
not be sure who was selling which model. Hype! , maybe? Like you said,
|
|
call Phillips to be sure. Sears did have an older model demonstator
|
|
machine but they could not get it to run so he showed me only the
|
|
current model. I saw one of the video add-on boxes at CompUSA but
|
|
they did not have any software to show what it could do. The technician
|
|
behind the counter said that the box was for either the Magnavox or the
|
|
Phillips. BTW, CompUSA had the Phillips on sale for $20.00 off the
|
|
$499.00 price at other places.
|
|
|
|
-*-
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|
|
|
84359 25-DEC 06:58 General Information
|
|
PC Christmas
|
|
From: JOHNBAER To: ALL
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|
|
|
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Scott McGee was good enuff to post this on the CoCo List and permission
|
|
to cross post is at the end of this message. Enjoy! <g>.
|
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----- Begin cross post ------
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|
Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1993 21:50:21 -0600 (CST)
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From: Scott McGee <smcgee@MICROWARE.COM>
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Subject: PC Christmas
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|
To: Multiple recipients of list COCO <COCO@pucc.Princeton.EDU>
|
|
Reply-to: Scott McGee <smcgee@MICROWARE.COM>
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|
|
|
|
|
From deja-vu.aiss.uiuc.edu!rrb@uunet.uu.net Fri Dec 24 07:23:12 1993
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From: wdp@gagme.wwa.com (Bill Pfeiffer)
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|
Subject: A Politically Correct Christmas
|
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To: kidmedia@airwaves.chi.il.us
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Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1993 04:15:47 -0600 (CST)
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|
Content-Length: 3307
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|
Reply-To: kidmedia@airwaves.chi.il.us
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|
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|
With the season upon us, and all the talk about standards in media, I
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|
felt this little poem would be appropriate.
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|
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|
Enjoy
|
|
|
|
'Twas the night before Christmas and Santa's a wreck...
|
|
How to live in a world that's politically correct?
|
|
His workers no longer would answer to "Elves",
|
|
"Vertically Challenged" they were calling themselves.
|
|
|
|
And labor conditions at the north pole
|
|
Were alleged by the union to stifle the soul.
|
|
Four reindeer had vanished, without much propriety,
|
|
Released to the wilds by the Humane Society.
|
|
|
|
And equal employment had made it quite clear
|
|
That Santa had better not use just reindeer.
|
|
So Dancer and Donner, Comet and Cupid,
|
|
Were replaced with 4 pigs, and you know that looked stupid!
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|
|
The runners had been removed from his sleigh;
|
|
The ruts were termed dangerous by the E.P.A.
|
|
And people had started to call for the cops
|
|
When they heard sled noises on their roof-tops.
|
|
|
|
Second-hand smoke from his pipe had his workers quite frightened.
|
|
His fur trimmed red suit was called "Unenlightened."
|
|
And to show you the strangeness of life's ebbs and flows,
|
|
Rudolf was suing over use of his nose
|
|
|
|
And had gone on Geraldo, in front of the nation,
|
|
Demanding millions in over-due compensation.
|
|
So, half of the reindeer were gone; and his wife,
|
|
Who suddenly said she'd enough of this life,
|
|
|
|
Joined a self-help group, packed, and left in a whiz,
|
|
Demanding from now on her title was Ms.
|
|
And as for the gifts, why, he'd ne'er had a notion
|
|
That making a choice could cause so much commotion.
|
|
|
|
Nothing of leather, nothing of fur,
|
|
Which meant nothing for him. And nothing for her.
|
|
Nothing that might be construed to pollute.
|
|
Nothing to aim. Nothing to shoot.
|
|
|
|
Nothing that clamored or made lots of noise.
|
|
Nothing for just girls. Or just for the boys.
|
|
Nothing that claimed to be gender specific.
|
|
Nothing that's warlike or non-pacific.
|
|
|
|
No candy or sweets...they were bad for the tooth.
|
|
Nothing that seemed to embellish a truth.
|
|
And fairy tales, while not yet forbidden,
|
|
Were like Ken and Barbie, better off hidden.
|
|
|
|
For they raised the hackles of those psychological
|
|
Who claimed the only good gift was one ecological.
|
|
No baseball, no football...someone could get hurt;
|
|
Besides, playing sports exposed kids to dirt.
|
|
|
|
Dolls were said to be sexist, and should be passe;
|
|
And Nintendo would rot your entire brain away.
|
|
So Santa just stood there, disheveled, perplexed;
|
|
He just could not figure out what to do next.
|
|
|
|
He tried to be merry, tried to be gay,
|
|
But you've got to be careful with that word today.
|
|
His sack was quite empty, limp to the ground;
|
|
Nothing fully acceptable was to be found.
|
|
|
|
Something special was needed, a gift that he might
|
|
Give to all without angering the left or the right.
|
|
A gift that would satisfy, with no indecision,
|
|
Each group of people, every religion;
|
|
|
|
Every ethnicity, every hue,
|
|
Everyone, everywhere...even you.
|
|
So here is that gift, it's price beyond worth...
|
|
"May you and your loved ones enjoy peace on earth."
|
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|
|
--------------------------------
|
|
Notice: This poem is copyright 1992 by Harvey Ehrlich. It is free to
|
|
distribute, without changes, as long as this notice remains intact.
|
|
All follow-ups, requests, comments, questions, distribution rights, etc
|
|
should be made to mduhan@husc.harvard.edu . Happy Holidays!
|
|
|
|
|
|
---- End of cross post -----
|
|
|
|
-
|
|
John Baer
|
|
johnbaer@delphi.com
|
|
jbaer@pacs.pha.pa.us
|
|
|
|
*** InfoXpress 1.01.00 ***
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
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|
|
84361 25-DEC 11:45 General Information
|
|
Happy Holidays!
|
|
From: COLORSYSTEMS To: ALL
|
|
|
|
Merry Christmas to all!!
|
|
|
|
|
|
------------------------------------
|
|
Zack C Sessions
|
|
ColorSystems
|
|
|
|
"I am Homer of Borg, prepare to be assimi ... OOOOHHH, DOUGHNUTS!"
|
|
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
84363 25-DEC 14:31 Programmers Den
|
|
RE: Database in C (Re: Msg 84079)
|
|
From: FRANCALCRAFT To: CHYDE (NR)
|
|
|
|
I wasn't using rlink; I was using c.link. What I did was take the subordinate
|
|
4 listings and compile them to the .r file stage (before link). The database
|
|
also needs cgfx.l. I took the source of the main listing and compiled that from
|
|
scratch, telling cc to link in cgfx.l and the 4 .r files needed by the main
|
|
program. Of course, cstart.r and clib.l also automatically get linked as well.
|
|
That makes a total of 7 modules to link to the one being compiled, and is
|
|
apparently too many for c.link to handle.
|
|
The command I used was "cc -l=/d2/lib/cgfx.l -l=/r0/os9search.r
|
|
-l=/r0/os9chdel.r
|
|
-l=/r0/os9enter.r -l=/r0/keyword.r os9top.c"
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
84375 25-DEC 22:55 Programmers Den
|
|
RE: Database in C (Re: Msg 84363)
|
|
From: MITHELEN To: FRANCALCRAFT (NR)
|
|
|
|
You shoul only use the "-l" option for LIBRARY files. Compile all your source
|
|
to the ".r" files, then to link them all together, use:
|
|
cc -l=/d2/lib/cgfx.l os9search.r os9chdel.r os9enter.r keyword.r os9top.r
|
|
-f=ProgramName
|
|
|
|
I believe the only limitation is, some versions of cc have a limit of 30 command
|
|
|
|
line parameters, so, if you have a REAL lot of .r files, then you merge a bunch
|
|
of them together.
|
|
--
|
|
Paul Jerkatis - SandV BBS (708)352-0948: Chicago Area OS-9 Users Group
|
|
UUCP ...{balr|tellab5}!vpnet!sandv.chi.il.us!sysop
|
|
Internet: MITHELEN@Delphi.com
|
|
|
|
"Did you ever notice how cheep 99% of all BBS users are?" - Unknown
|
|
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
End of Thread.
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
84366 25-DEC 17:17 General Information
|
|
season's greetings
|
|
From: DAVIDAH To: ALL
|
|
|
|
Merry Christmas from the Huff brothers (Paul and David) to all.
|
|
----Dave
|
|
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
84370 25-DEC 19:46 General Information
|
|
WD controllers
|
|
From: ILLUSIONIST To: ALL
|
|
|
|
does anyone know of a source for WD hard drive controllers for use with the
|
|
B&B XT system???? I have combed through a mess of PC mags' and cant find
|
|
one. I guess I could look into pulling one from an XT..but I would rather
|
|
just find a vendor..thanks.
|
|
|
|
-* Mike
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
84372 25-DEC 22:34 General Information
|
|
RE: WD controllers (Re: Msg 84370)
|
|
From: BRUCEGERST To: ILLUSIONIST
|
|
|
|
I was reading in the November issue of the world of 68' micros on page 4
|
|
3rd column top. says WD XTGEN compatible controllers and cables are also
|
|
available, inquire.
|
|
|
|
Winchester Service 4545 Industrial St. Unit 6Em Simi Valler, CA
|
|
93063;805-584-6409
|
|
|
|
might give them a shout and see, let me know what they have, OK?
|
|
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
84376 25-DEC 23:18 General Information
|
|
RE: WD controllers (Re: Msg 84372)
|
|
From: ILLUSIONIST To: BRUCEGERST
|
|
|
|
thanks, I will inquire as soon as I can.. and I will leave a messge here on
|
|
the forum about what they have.. thanks again..
|
|
-* Mike
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
End of Thread.
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
84373 25-DEC 22:39 OSK Applications
|
|
GEN-LOCK
|
|
From: BRUCEGERST To: ALL
|
|
|
|
I see that Philips/Signetics has a GEN-LOCK listed with some info I received
|
|
from them. Does anybody know what it would take to make one up for the MM/1,
|
|
and how much they think it would cost. -or- Does anyone plan to build a
|
|
GEN-LOCK for the MM/1??
|
|
|
|
-Bruce Gerst (Budgetware)-
|
|
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
84374 25-DEC 22:47 OSK Applications
|
|
Sound Chip - Yamaha (OPL3)
|
|
From: BRUCEGERST To: ALL
|
|
|
|
Yamaha makes a popular stereo sound chip (and DAC) for micro computers. It's
|
|
called the OPL-3. It's used in Sound Blaster(R) cards and the like for
|
|
something like 20 voices or such and does it in Stereo!
|
|
|
|
Anybody looking into this for the CoCo or MM/1 for some NICE sound output that
|
|
takes less diskspace than digitized sound does?
|
|
Yamaha is very strict that nobody uses this chipset for anything that can
|
|
compete with Yamaha, but they LOVE anybody that wants to interface it to a
|
|
micro-computer. Yamaha even makes some CD-I related chips.
|
|
|
|
I would be VERY happy if someone could build a add-on sound card for the MM/1
|
|
(or CoCo) using this OPL-3 chipset!!!
|
|
|
|
-Bruce Gerst (Budgetware)-
|
|
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
84377 25-DEC 23:33 OSK Applications
|
|
RE: Sound Chip - Yamaha (OPL3) (Re: Msg 84374)
|
|
From: ILLUSIONIST To: BRUCEGERST (NR)
|
|
|
|
there was a forum thread awhile back about the Audioport, it is bascally
|
|
an audio sound card, but rather than interface via the computers bus system
|
|
it uses a parrellel port. If a generic parrellel port driver was written
|
|
(would have to be two-way communication) then you would have PC-compat.
|
|
sound, and an easy way to play PC sound files could be done. (maybe even
|
|
merge sound.file > /snd) assuming /snd is the sound port...
|
|
|
|
If you know how to write SCF drivers, you could take a shot at it..
|
|
|
|
As for the OPL-3, well, you said it is the same as in the soundblaster
|
|
right? if there are 8-bit soundblaster cards (as in the size of the
|
|
card, meaning the old XT type) you could pop the soundblaster in
|
|
a COCO-XT adapter, plug the whole thing in the MPI, write a driver
|
|
and boom! soundblaster sound. of course, the same thing goes for graphics
|
|
want VGA? get a VGA card that is 8bit and includes a keyboard port, plug
|
|
in a monitor and keyboard, write a driver, and again, boom the coco
|
|
would have VGA graphics. the problem isnt really hardware, it is lack
|
|
of drivers. (btw if someone were to do that VGA thing, and entire new
|
|
windowing system would have to be made, as I doubt the coco windowing
|
|
would work on the VGA card, maybe Windint would, if the proper driver
|
|
was there.) But then, the higher-res screens would present a problem
|
|
in that the current coco system doesnt support the res. meaning you would
|
|
have to hack up new window types (type 9, type 10, type 11, etc)
|
|
|
|
In short, a royal pain :). but that vga driver could be sold for some
|
|
pretty good money.
|
|
|
|
hhmmmm... 2 meg of memory, VGA and soundblaster cards..geez..and just
|
|
when I thought I was safe from the PC world.. after using OS-9 and
|
|
UNIX for a long time, the PC demons grab me anyway.. :) it would be
|
|
nice though!!!!
|
|
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
End of Thread.
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
84378 25-DEC 23:40 OSK Applications
|
|
RE: GNU C (Re: Msg 84091)
|
|
From: DAVGEORGE To: COLORSYSTEMS
|
|
|
|
I have noticed the same thing. I tried everything I could think of
|
|
and just said, "well that is enough to make me go back to Microware C."
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
84380 26-DEC 01:41 General Information
|
|
Kenton SCSI controller pin outs
|
|
From: BRIANOHAGAN To: ALL
|
|
|
|
|
|
Does anyone know what the even pins on the 34 pin edge connector on the Kenton
|
|
SCSI controller are?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Brian
|
|
|
|
-*-
|
|
|
|
|
|
FORUM>Reply, Add, Read, "?" or Exit> |