267 lines
9.8 KiB
Plaintext
267 lines
9.8 KiB
Plaintext
|
|
Conspiracy Nation -- Vol. 7 Num. 16
|
|
======================================
|
|
("Quid coniuratio est?")
|
|
|
|
|
|
-----------------------------------------------------------------
|
|
|
|
BOSNIA: HOW THE STATE DEPARTMENT AND MEDIA
|
|
HAVE FAILED AND MISLED THE AMERICAN PEOPLE
|
|
==========================================
|
|
|
|
Special thanks to my "Chicago connection" for sending a videotape
|
|
of a public access program, "Broadsides", which was taped on June
|
|
6, 1995. Host is Mr. Sherman Skolnick of the Citizens' Committee
|
|
to Clean Up the Courts; co-host is Mr. Robert E. Cleveland, an
|
|
attorney and associate of Mr. Skolnick. Guests are James Nagle,
|
|
an attorney with the law firm of Querry & Harrow, Andrew B.
|
|
Spiegel, also an attorney, and Mike Pavlovic, a Serbian-American.
|
|
|
|
Pardon spelling errors. If you know the correct spellings, please
|
|
let me know.
|
|
|
|
Contact info: Andrew B. Spiegel, PO Box 396, Wheaton, IL 60187
|
|
|
|
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
|
|
|
|
[...continued...]
|
|
|
|
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
|
|
In Chicago there are descendants of all these factions, right?
|
|
There's Moslems, there's Serbs, there's Croats -- all these
|
|
different factions live in the Chicago area. Am I correct?
|
|
|
|
|
|
JAMES NAGLE:
|
|
Yes.
|
|
|
|
|
|
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
|
|
Do they get along with one another? Or do they (unknown to the
|
|
rest of us) fight around?
|
|
|
|
|
|
MIKE PAVLOVIC:
|
|
There's lots of good Croatian people, lots of good Moslem people,
|
|
lots of good Serbian people. But that time, the Second World War,
|
|
Ustashe was organization that was able to work together with
|
|
German Nazis.
|
|
|
|
I have a Croatian guy at work in my office, together with me.
|
|
|
|
|
|
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
|
|
So that makes it a little sensitive?
|
|
|
|
|
|
MIKE PAVLOVIC:
|
|
It's not sensitive. We are very reasonable about talking about
|
|
what's going on; we don't want war. We want to stop killing.
|
|
That's very important. And I *know* that we can stop killing! And
|
|
*then*, we start negotiating.
|
|
|
|
|
|
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
|
|
So for that purpose, the three of you formed a goodwill mission
|
|
earlier this year [1995]. Tell us a little bit about it. What was
|
|
the idea behind it?
|
|
|
|
|
|
ANDREW SPIEGEL:
|
|
Well Mike has been very concerned about the situation in
|
|
Yugoslavia, which was his homeland. He came up with the idea at
|
|
the beginning of this year that if the Serbs could live under a
|
|
system of government like we have in the United States, that
|
|
would help solve the problem. So he asked me to put together a
|
|
document that they could use to form this type of government. So
|
|
we put together a "declaration of independence agreement" that
|
|
was modelled on the Declaration of Independence of the United
|
|
States; we put together a constitution that was modelled on our
|
|
own Constitution, but taking out some of the defects in our
|
|
Constitution that has let the U.S. government get way out of
|
|
control -- at least in my opinion. And [Unclear] hand-carried
|
|
these documents to President Karadzic in Pale, which is the
|
|
capital of the Republic of Srpska. In January, he had invited us
|
|
to put together a delegation to consult with them in Pale about
|
|
their use of this declaration.
|
|
|
|
It's important for your audience to understand the legal
|
|
situation here. Yugoslavia was made up of six republics. It was a
|
|
violation of the Yugoslav Constitution for any republic to secede
|
|
from Yugoslavia. At the time, in 1991, Yugoslavia was a member of
|
|
the United Nations. *Three* of the six republics -- Slovenia,
|
|
Croatia, and Bosnia -- decided that they were going to secede, in
|
|
violation of the Yugoslav Constitution. In order to stop that,
|
|
the leader of Yugoslavia, President Milosovich(sp?), not unlike
|
|
our own President Lincoln, sent in the national army to stop them
|
|
from seceding from Yugoslavia.
|
|
|
|
|
|
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
|
|
Is that a quick and simplistic way of trying to understand a
|
|
complicated thing? That when one of the provinces, like the
|
|
southern states, tried to secede from the national government, it
|
|
caused the American Civil War? (At least that's what some people
|
|
think caused it.) Is that an uncomplicated way of trying to
|
|
understand what appears to be a civil war in Yugoslavia?
|
|
|
|
|
|
ANDREW SPIEGEL:
|
|
That's only part of it. The second part of it is that the Serbs
|
|
living in Croatia and the Serbs living in Bosnia -- like the
|
|
Virginians living in West Virginia -- did not want it to secede
|
|
from Yugoslavia. So *they* seceded from the Republic of Croatia
|
|
and the Republic of Bosnia and set up their own independent
|
|
republic which was independent from *those* republics, but not
|
|
independent from Yugoslavia. So today, in fact, the constitutions
|
|
of Croina(sp?) (which is the Serb republic in Croatia) and the
|
|
Republic of Srpska (which is the Serb republic in Bosnia) -- it's
|
|
a violation of those constitutions for them to secede from
|
|
Yugoslavia!
|
|
|
|
|
|
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
|
|
Bob, you've studied this thing. What's your take on what appears
|
|
to be a civil war over there?
|
|
|
|
|
|
ROBERT CLEVELAND:
|
|
Well it appears to be a matter of these people looking out for
|
|
their own problems and not being subject to outside interference.
|
|
For whatever reason that may be, certain European countries wish
|
|
to get in and interfere in the guise of "peacekeeping", when
|
|
there *is* no peace!
|
|
|
|
|
|
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
|
|
Who's interfering? The Germans?
|
|
|
|
|
|
ROBERT CLEVELAND:
|
|
The Germans and the French... proclivity. And they're encouraging
|
|
us, the United States, to send armed forces over in the area.
|
|
They use the planes for the "fly over". They've done other things
|
|
there that...
|
|
|
|
Really, they're trying to influence decisions that could be done
|
|
internally, within the country.
|
|
|
|
|
|
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
|
|
So all these provinces are claiming a separate sovereignty and a
|
|
separate government? Do they all have separate governments,
|
|
separate taxing, separate everything?
|
|
|
|
|
|
ANDREW SPIEGEL:
|
|
Well they do now. Slovenia is an independent country now. Croatia
|
|
is an independent country now. Bosnia is an independent country
|
|
now. Macedonia is an independent country. And the *new*
|
|
Yugoslavia, also called the "rump Yugoslavia" -- which is
|
|
comprised now of Serbian Montenegro -- is an independent country.
|
|
|
|
|
|
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
|
|
Mike, I think our viewers would like to know what do the people
|
|
over there subsist on? They're so busy killing each other; do
|
|
they manufacture anything to make money in the meantime? How do
|
|
they get all this money to buy arms, food and whatever they need?
|
|
Where does it come from?
|
|
|
|
|
|
MIKE PAVLOVIC:
|
|
That's a good question. It's very hard to answer.
|
|
|
|
|
|
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
|
|
Do they manufacture anything over there?
|
|
|
|
|
|
MIKE PAVLOVIC:
|
|
They don't manufacture nothing right now.
|
|
|
|
|
|
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
|
|
So on what do they subsist?
|
|
|
|
|
|
JAMES NAGLE:
|
|
Well what they subsist on... You have to understand: 90 percent
|
|
of the Republic of Srpska is agriculture. So they're self-
|
|
sustaining.
|
|
|
|
|
|
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
|
|
Tell our viewers what or how you organized by way of a peace
|
|
mission, a goodwill mission, or what. How did you go about it?
|
|
|
|
|
|
ANDREW SPIEGEL:
|
|
Well, because we were trying to get them to form a democratic
|
|
form of government, I asked Jim Nagle to accompany me, who in
|
|
addition to being a trial lawyer is a constitutional law expert.
|
|
And I asked Mike Ginsberg(sp?), who is a senior buyer with United
|
|
Air Lines and is a businessman and familiar with free market
|
|
principles, to join the delegation so we could try and convince
|
|
President Karadzic that this is the type of government he should
|
|
have.
|
|
|
|
And ironically enough, when we sat down with him on Saturday,
|
|
April 22nd to discuss these issues, the first words out of his
|
|
mouth was that he wants to set up the very type of government
|
|
that we were trying to convince him to set up: a limited
|
|
government, with the private ownership of property, where
|
|
everybody has equal rights.
|
|
|
|
[Document shown on the screen.]
|
|
|
|
What we're looking at now is the April 22nd letter that we
|
|
convinced President Karadzic to fax to President Clinton, on
|
|
April 22nd. The most important portion of this letter is the last
|
|
paragraph, where Karadzic states: "What we are proposing,
|
|
therefore, is a permanent peace treaty to end the war completely,
|
|
and negotiations to resume at the same time under the auspices of
|
|
the international community."
|
|
|
|
President Karadzic was so impressed with what we had to tell him
|
|
that he called a special meeting of his cabinet for Sunday, April
|
|
23rd. This was 8 o'clock in the morning, on *their* Easter
|
|
Sunday. They took the time out to meet with us to discuss these
|
|
documents.
|
|
|
|
|
|
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
|
|
That is the Eastern Orthodox Easter.
|
|
|
|
|
|
ANDREW SPIEGEL:
|
|
Eastern Orthodox Easter.
|
|
|
|
And right from that meeting, they went to Eastern Orthodox
|
|
services, and we went to the front lines in Sarajevo.
|
|
|
|
[...to be continued...]
|
|
|
|
-----------------------------------------------------------------
|
|
I encourage distribution of "Conspiracy Nation."
|
|
-----------------------------------------------------------------
|
|
If you would like "Conspiracy Nation" sent to your e-mail
|
|
address, send a message in the form "subscribe cn-l My Name" to
|
|
listproc@cornell.edu (Note: that is "CN-L" *not* "CN-1")
|
|
-----------------------------------------------------------------
|
|
For information on how to receive the new Conspiracy Nation
|
|
Newsletter, send an e-mail message to bigred@shout.net
|
|
-----------------------------------------------------------------
|
|
Want to know more about Whitewater, Oklahoma City bombing, etc?
|
|
(1) telnet prairienet.org (2) logon as "visitor" (3) go citcom
|
|
-----------------------------------------------------------------
|
|
See also: http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn.html
|
|
-----------------------------------------------------------------
|
|
See also: ftp.shout.net pub/users/bigred
|
|
-----------------------------------------------------------------
|
|
Aperi os tuum muto, et causis omnium filiorum qui pertranseunt.
|
|
Aperi os tuum, decerne quod justum est, et judica inopem et
|
|
pauperem. -- Liber Proverbiorum XXXI: 8-9
|
|
|