326 lines
14 KiB
Plaintext
326 lines
14 KiB
Plaintext
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Conspiracy Nation -- Vol. 6 Num. 98
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======================================
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("Quid coniuratio est?")
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RFA AIRS LATEST BOMB INFO
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=========================
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(Spotlight, Jan. 15, 1996)
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--------------------------
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The latest developments in independent investigations of the
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Oklahoma City bombing were discussed on the December 13 [1995]
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broadcast of The Spotlight's nightly call-in talk forum, Radio
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Free America [RFA, 5.065 MHz shortwave, mon-fri, 9 pm cst], with
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host Tom Valentine.
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The guest was Jon Rappoport, author of The Oklahoma City Bombing:
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The Suppressed Truth, which is available at $12 per copy by
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writing: Jon Rappoport, 2633 Lincoln Boulevard, Suite No. 256,
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Santa Monica, CA 90405. [CN -- An excellent book but, as always,
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*caveat emptor*]
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An edited transcript of the interview with Rappoport follows...
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+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
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TOM VALENTINE:
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Could you give us an update on your latest findings?
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JON RAPPOPORT:
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The unassailable fact is that the truck bomb Tim McVeigh and
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Terry Nichols are alleged to have used could not have caused the
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major damage to the building. You have to be dealing with
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professionals who put charges inside the building on the columns
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to get the pattern of damage that was found there.
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Assume that a group of professionals linked up with McVeigh and
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got some professionals to go inside the building and set the real
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charges, allowing McVeigh to think that he's doing the job alone.
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Now if this were the case, the FBI would then come in and figure
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out in about five minutes that McVeigh was just the dupe and the
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real damage was done by the professionals inside the building.
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It's absurd to think that the professionals involved then figured
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that they could "pay off" the FBI to cover up for them.
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The bottom line is that, if the FBI is covering up for the damage
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done by other charges set off inside the building, which indeed
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the FBI is doing, then you have got to be talking about an
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operation that has its roots inside the government somewhere. You
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aren't talking about some small group of wackos who were involved
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here.
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TOM VALENTINE:
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That's right. Somebody had to be able to convince the FBI's field
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workers, who are legitimate, hard-working, honest agents, that
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they were only wasting their time by following anything beyond
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the truck bomb.
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JON RAPPOPORT:
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So few people understand them. They pointed people in a certain
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direction and said, "Go look there" and the lower-level
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investigators say, "Yes, sir" and that's what happened here.
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Somebody above the level of the FBI, inside the government, is
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managing this investigation. They may ultimately have links
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outside the government, but it goes high up.
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As more and more information comes in, it's more and more
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confirmation of this thesis. At the "middle level" (the level of
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the execution of the bombing), more and more people begin to show
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up. There's more cover-up and more agencies in the federal
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government denying that they had prior knowledge. There are more
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and more witnesses who are being excluded by the FBI (especially
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in reference to the existence of John Doe No. 2).
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We've seen the defecting grand juror in Oklahoma City, Hoppy
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Heidelberg, who didn't like the way the grand jury was being
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conducted in reference to the existence of John Doe No. 2.
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The reason Heidelberg went public with his complaints (and
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possibly breaking the law in so doing) is that he felt that the
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existence of John Doe No. 2 was completely excluded from
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testimony.
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Heidelberg suspected (as do many) that John Doe No. 2 would prove
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to be a government informant or government agent -- a "handler"
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for McVeigh. That's why, ultimately, the grand jury never took up
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the question of John Doe No. 2.
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This is a man they had a sketch of. They had witnesses (who were
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never called to testify) who saw John Doe No. 2. There was one
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man, Mike Morose, who gave an interview to Channel 4 in Oklahoma
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City in which he said that he saw John Doe No. 2 standing there
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at around 8:40 am on the morning of the bombing right there in
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front of the federal building with McVeigh. This witness was
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never called before the grand jury. There was no significant
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testimony given about John Doe No. 2. This goes beyond being
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suspicious.
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McVeigh had been arrested (on traffic violations charges) within
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about 90 minutes of the bombing and the sketch that they had of
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John Doe No. 1 (later identified as McVeigh) was enough to get
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the federal authorities over to Perry, Oklahoma where McVeigh was
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being held in jail. It was there that they arrested him as a
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suspect in the bombing about a day and a half later.
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The sketch of John Doe No. 2, on the other hand, didn't result in
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anything even close to a subsequent arrest. In fact, the FBI
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began to pick up people who didn't even look like the person in
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the sketch of John Doe No. 2. Heidelberg became convinced, as a
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result, that the federal authorities were not doing their job and
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were not interested in pursuing John Doe No. 2 and he wanted to
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know why.
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TOM VALENTINE:
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In my view, it doesn't seem likely that the guilty parties
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(whether within the government or otherwise) could convince the
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FBI to help cover up their complicity. It seems more likely, for
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example, that perhaps federal agents (maybe BATF) were attempting
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to ensnare McVeigh in a "sting" operation that went haywire and
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that, as a consequence, they would be more able to convince
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others to help cover that up instead. [CN -- See also the thesis
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put forward by Debra von Trapp, still *not* *refuted* and yet
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strangely ignored by some people. As von Trapp told me, no one
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"fed" her any disinformation for the simple reason that she was
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already *inside* the alleged operation she described.]
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JON RAPPOPORT:
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It's pretty easy, unfortunately, to say to these agents: "There's
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a bunch of nuts running around out there who say that there were
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bombs inside the building. That's ridiculous, of course. We're
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looking for evidence of the truck bomb and that's all we want you
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to focus on." The lower-level federal officials would buy that.
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David Hall, another Oklahoma City bombing researcher, has done
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some excellent research. He believes that some sort of sting
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operation went awry. The point where Hall and I part company is
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that I believe that in order to create the damage that was done
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in this bombing that you had to have very carefully placed
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charges inside on the columns of the structure and therefore the
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idea of a "sting" seems to fail.
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I could buy that argument if it was just McVeigh and they were
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leading him on and they intended to bust him and become famous
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and beloved all over America for foiling McVeigh's intended
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terrorist act. However, when you have the involvement of
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professionals (as it really went down), that seems to exceed the
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boundaries of a simple "sting" operation.
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TOM VALENTINE:
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I have to agree with you there. That's a tough one to get around
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and it's a hard one for a lot of people to have to face.
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JON RAPPOPORT:
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Look at what happened to Hoppy Heidelberg. Here's a guy who went
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into the grand jury with a juror's handbook that spelled out
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juror's rights and when he got frustrated and tried to exercise
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those rights, by asking to question witnesses and call other
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witnesses (and do what a grand jury is empowered to do), he
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discovered that the prosecutors weren't going to let him do that.
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The prosecutors had decided who was going to be indicted and who
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wasn't and the grand jurors were expected to be a rubber stamp.
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And now Heidelberg still risks the possibility of going to jail
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for doing what he did.
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TOM VALENTINE:
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There's more evidence that has come out?
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JON RAPPOPORT:
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That's right. Ray Brown, the university seismologist who
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determined initially that there were two blasts at the time of
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the bombing, has now concluded that there were actually three
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blasts. He says that the FBI has confiscated seismic evidence and
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that if you had the missing portions of the evidence that you
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would be able to nail it down conclusively. So that's the latest
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there.
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We now have an expanded list of witnesses who have told either
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the FBI or Channel 4 that, in fact, they did see John Doe No. 2
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and other suspects at the bombing scene. We have Gary Lewis, a
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press supervisor in the Journal-Record building across the street
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from the federal building. We have a banker whose name is Kyle
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Hunt.
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All of these people were on the scene before the bombing and saw
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a Mercury Marquis and a brown Chevy pickup. They saw McVeigh and
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somebody who looked like the sketch of John Doe No. 2. But none
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of these people were called before the grand jury because they
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were not only talking about McVeigh, but they were also talking
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about John Doe No. 2.
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TOM VALENTINE:
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What's the story about the judge in the case being thrown out?
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JON RAPPOPORT:
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The New York Times and the Los Angeles Times claimed that the
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reason why Judge Wayne Alley was dismissed from the case was
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because his office was across the street from the federal
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building and was damaged during the bombing and that this might
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cause him to be prejudiced against the defendants.
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The real reason, however, appeared in the Portland Oregonian on
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April 20, one day after the bombing. In an interview with the
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Oregonian, Alley admitted that he received warning on April 3, by
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some government people whom he didn't name, that there was a
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suspicion that something was up; that something like a bombing
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was going to be happening in that neighborhood. So the judge took
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a vacation and that's why he wasn't in his office the day of the
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bombing. That's why he was taken off the case. That little tidbit
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would be far too much to deal with, suddenly popping up in the
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middle of the trial. One of his clerks was actually injured by
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some glass.
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TOM VALENTINE:
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Judge Alley is from Portland, Oregon originally and that's how he
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happened to inadvertantly give this story to a Portland Oregonian
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reporter. The ramifications of the bombing and its aftermath are
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intense, particularly in light of the push for the anti-terrorist
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legislation.
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JON RAPPOPORT:
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Gunowners of America and the American Civil Liberties Union
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recently jointly sponsored a briefing on the dangers of the so-
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called anti-terrorist legislation that's before Congress.
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People were amazed that the "right" and the "left" could stop
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trying to strangle each other long enough to agree with anything,
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yet here they were agreeing very much that this legislation is
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repressive. I think that's very encouraging.
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TOM VALENTINE:
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That's right. The left and the right have much more in common in
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many regards than the Rush Limbaughs of the world would admit.
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JON RAPPOPORT:
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There's another interesting detail about the case that's worth
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noting. There's a fellow in custody in Phoenix named Steve
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Colburn who was arrested on May 13 because of some gun charges
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pending against him and he hadn't reported in. Apparently his
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brown pickup truck had pulled over on the side of the road when
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Oklahoma trooper Charles Hanger arrested McVeigh. Hanger's
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videocamera apparently caught the license plate of Colburn's
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truck.
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Yet, Colburn has been on ice since then and has said nothing. He
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did know McVeigh. We know that. Yet Colburn hasn't been
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officially charged in the bombing. So who knows what they are
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trying to do? Are they trying to get Colburn to do what McVeigh's
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friend, Michael Fortier, did: Turn around completely from saying
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that McVeigh couldn't have had anything to do with the bombing to
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saying that he actually helped McVeigh case the building?
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One of the most staggering things in the Oklahoma bombing is that
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the media has hardly interviewed any of the hundreds of people
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who escaped the bombing, despite the fact that there are hundreds
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of reporters covering the story.
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The reason for this, I think, is that of the stories of survivors
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that I have heard, are extremely damaging to the official
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scenario.
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One story reveals that there were at least two explosions and
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that the interior explosion came just slightly before the truck
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bomb, if we are to believe at least two witnesses who were in the
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building who have told this story.
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TOM VALENTINE:
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We've heard that the people of Oklahoma City are scared to death
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of their own public servants, especially the FBI.
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JON RAPPOPORT:
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This might have something to do with the fact that some 45
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percent of the people of Oklahoma work for some facet of the
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government.
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+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
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You may be unable to find The Spotlight at your local library or
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news dealer. To subscribe, phone 1-800-522-6292 (Maryland 1-301-
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951-6292). Note that I have no personal connection to The
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Spotlight nor am I compensated by them. I also neither
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necessarily agree nor disagree with either all or parts of the
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views expressed in The Spotlight.
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For information on how to receive the new Conspiracy Nation
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Newsletter, send an e-mail message to bigred@shout.net
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Want to know more about Whitewater, Oklahoma City bombing, etc?
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(1) telnet prairienet.org (2) logon as "visitor" (3) go citcom
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See also: http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn.html
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See also: ftp.shout.net pub/users/bigred
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Aperi os tuum muto, et causis omnium filiorum qui pertranseunt.
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Aperi os tuum, decerne quod justum est, et judica inopem et
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pauperem. -- Liber Proverbiorum XXXI: 8-9
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