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F I D O N E W S -- Vol.10 No.27 (05-Jul-1993)
+----------------------------+-----------------------------------------+
| A newsletter of the | |
| FidoNet BBS community | Published by: |
| _ | |
| / \ | "FidoNews" BBS |
| /|oo \ | +1-519-570-4176 1:1/23 |
| (_| /_) | |
| _`@/_ \ _ | Editors: |
| | | \ \\ | Sylvia Maxwell 1:221/194 |
| | (*) | \ )) | Donald Tees 1:221/192 |
| |__U__| / \// | Tim Pozar 1:125/555 |
| _//|| _\ / | |
| (_/(_|(____/ | |
| (jm) | Newspapers should have no friends. |
| | -- JOSEPH PULITZER |
+----------------------------+-----------------------------------------+
| Submission address: editors 1:1/23 |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Internet addresses: |
| |
| Sylvia -- max@exlibris.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca |
| Donald -- donald@exlibris.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca |
| Tim -- pozar@kumr.lns.com |
| Both Don & Sylvia (submission address) |
| editor@exlibris.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| For information, copyrights, article submissions, |
| obtaining copies and other boring but important details, |
| please refer to the end of this file. |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
========================================================================
Table of Contents
========================================================================
1. Editorial..................................................... 2
2. Articles...................................................... 2
Georgia State Wide Echo..................................... 2
An Open Letter to Joe Sysop / David Stark................... 3
NC's repeal United Nations Charter.......................... 4
Teen Net.................................................... 4
Region 24, continued........................................ 5
Farewell to FIDO?........................................... 5
An open letter to David Stark............................... 7
Comments about Jeff Murphy at 1:105/222.3 and VANPORT....... 8
"Madness in FidoLand... Part I?"........................... 9
3. Fidonews Information.......................................... 10
FidoNews 10-27 Page: 2 05 Jul 1993
========================================================================
Editorial
========================================================================
Well, all is quiet here on the home front, and I sit in front
of a terminal struggling for yet another snooze editorial.
The problem with bad mail ending up at 1:1/1 seems to be
tapering out, but we still get the odd glitch. A packet arrived
this week with some 35 messages ... all undeliverable. Ironically,
they seemed to be errors generated by a program to place the snooze
into an echo. Hoisted by our own petard ...
We are getting more and more articles via routed mail.
Technically, all snooze articles are supposed to arrive as
files, but with a few exceptions the routed mail is not a
problem. As a temporary guideline, we would like to suggest the
following rules for routed mail articles. (One of these days, a
revision to AERTSPEC.DOC is going to get done).
First of all, please include a tearline at the top and bottom
of the actual article. Often, writers have a note to us as
editors at the top, and it is difficult to know what is meant as
comment to us and what is meant for the snooze. Say it is an
article at the top, then put a tearline in.
Secondly, anything coming in by netmail should NOT have any
quotations, tables, or special formating. Netmail nearly always
needs to be reformated at this end, and articles that rely on
specific pagination/line formating create problems and work. If
that is required, then send the articles in as files, as per
ARTSPEC. Netmail articles are limited to paragraphs of text.
And keep in mind, our address is 1:1/23, not 1:1/1.
========================================================================
Articles
========================================================================
Georgia State Wide Echo
By Merrill Guice
1:3645/50
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+
| _ _ _ _ |_ _ __ |
| (_)(_| __ (_'(_ | | (_)__) |
| ._| |
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+
GA-ECHOES the Fidonet echoes for the State of Georgia
I would like to invite all sysops in the Peach State of Georgia (or
our kissin' cousins on the border) to join us in a state wide hookup!
The Georgia Echoes are currently running in Brunswick, Valdosta,
Tifton, Thomasville, Albany, Athens, and Metro Atlanta. We have been
swapping mail among ourselves since June 4th and traffic has built to
over 45 messages a week.
FidoNews 10-27 Page: 3 05 Jul 1993
The echoes we are offering:
GA_CHAT A general Chat area
GA_SALE Classifieds and Civic Announcements
GA_ADULT Nasty Talkers
GA_SYSOP Echo discussions and administration
For complete echo rules, freq GA_ECHO.ZIP from 1:3645/50. The file
includes a simple announcement for you to post for your users in your
main message base.
We are available on the Region 18 Hub in Memphis at 1:123/19 through
the kindness of REC Steve Cross.
Other locations for feeds are:
1:3645/20 Valdosta Robert Whitt, NEC
1:3617/3 Albany Joe Recker, NEC
1:3640/19 Brunswick Joe Harrell, Plain Vanilla Sysop
1:370/510 Athens Greg Shaffer, NEC
1:133/10 Atlanta B Noel, Atlanta Echomail Importers
When you come on line, please post a howdy in the chat echo!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
An Open Letter to Joe Sysop / David Stark
Dean Ridgway (1:357/1.103)
ridgwad@kira.csos.orst.edu
In regard to the article entitled "No Privacy Or Safety For
Sysops" in issues 1024 & 1025 of the snooze...
David Stark said: "Second, how does anyone expect the Fido
community at large to take an article such as that one seriously?
''Joe Sysop'' indeed."
I just can't let this comment slide. Things like this happen all
the time. Just because you live in the United States don't
dismiss something like this "because it just can't happen here."
This case sounds VERY SIMILAR to the Akron Anomaly BBS trial that
has been widely publicized on InterNet. In case there are some of
you that haven't heard about it yet, I have uploaded a 12048 byte
.ZIP file to my BOSSNODE (Computer Hotline 1:357/1) called
ARKONBBS.ZIP, (Ok, I misstyped it when I ZIPped it up >:-S ) for
FREQ.
FidoNews 10-27 Page: 4 05 Jul 1993
NC's repeal United Nations Charter
Just a sysop ?:9999/9999
FidoNet Nodelist for Friday, June 25, 1993 -- Day number 176
NOTICE -- NOTICE -- NOTICE -- NOTICE -- NOTICE -- NOTICE -- NOTICE
--------------------------------------------
Currrent Policy Interpretation:
Threatening or taking any legal action against any Fidonet
Co-ordinator for enforcing policy will be considered excessively
annoying.
--------------------------------------------
My, my, my. So now the powers that be have decided they are
above the law; that to be a Fidonet node one has to give
up the protections of the courts, the constitutions of every
country in the world, the united nations charter, and every
common law protection since the Magna Carta. I did not
realize that becoming a nodelist manager carried such weight.
I have some news for whoever wrote the above.
1. Making threats against anybody for resorting to the court
of the land is illegal in just about every country in the world.
2. Current policy prohibits breaking the law.
Seems we have a mail loop here. I think I'll make a policy
complaint. Who is running this show anyway? Are thay really
that ego-maniacal, or just rather slow?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Teen Net
by Matt Riedel (1:2606/408@FidoNet), (85:862/304@ITCNet)
Teen Net, a network for Teens.
Ever get mad at the world of FidoNet today, and say 'if
I were any older, they wouldn't treat me this way'... Well
If you are, join Teen Net, the Network exclusivly for teens.
In this net we'll discuss the everyday life of teenagers,
school, love, problems, etc.
Let's face it, probably at least 35% of FidoNet is made up
of teens, like myself. And, I would feel more at home, if
FidoNet weren't so grown up. Not to flame FidoNet, it's
Great, but some teens don't want to look stupid to the rest
of the world.
Teen Net one rule, don't be annoying. By this I mean:
Don't make fun of people just because it's different,
Don't close your mind, and be open to other ideas (Whoa!)
FidoNews 10-27 Page: 5 05 Jul 1993
If you would like to join Teen Net, FREQ the Magic FileName:
TEEN
from FidoNet 1:2606/408, or ITCNet 85:862/304.
In the packet, it should come with:
Teen.Eco (A list of message echos)
Teen.Exe (An application genarator)
Teen.nnn (where nnn is a number for a nodelist)
Teen.Rul (Rules [short doc... :)])
Think it over..
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Region 24, continued
Just a little addition, written down on Monday, June 28th.
The retirement mail of our "beloved" RC was a fake, obviously
created by one of his supporters. That's what I call good style
:-(
So the situation is now that many nodes demand of their new
assigned NC's to remove their new nodelist entries. Don't wonder
if R24 is significantly smaller with NODEDIFF.183 or
NODEDIFF.190.
What will happen to Fido in Germany is not clear. Maybe the
major part of our region will quit the net if the old structures
are not re-established in a certain period of time. If you want
to support us (and I ask you to) feel free to Freq our
alternative region file under the magic of REGION24 here at
2:2400/105 - just this AKA is supported.
Markus
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Farewell to FIDO?
by Keith Wood, BRASS CANNON BBS 1:304/8
Is this goodbye to Fido?
I run a BBS in a small town in rural Northern Arizona. Or, to
be more accurate, I run THE BBS here in Cottonwood. The nearest
neighboring FidoNet BBS is 65 miles away in Flagstaff, where the
Net is based, though there are two formerly-FidoNet BBSes in the
next town over (Sedona, 25 miles toward Flagstaff from here).
Having originally run the first "INTERCEPTED" BBS in California
(back in 1985, running the original FIDO BBS software) then
having been out of BBSing for several years, I was surprised to
see what FidoNet had become during my absence.
I started BRASS CANNON in 1991 with a 2400bps modem, and the
FidoNews 10-27 Page: 6 05 Jul 1993
extent of my echo participation was in two non-Fido echoes.
Then in February, the new NEC for :304 sent me a message
threatening to pull my Fido Node Address for "non-participation
in the Net."
I explained to him in a return posting that A), it costs me more
to call Flagstaff than it does to call MAINE; B), at 2400bps any
echo is a costly proposition if it's not fed locally; C), I was
in the middle of running Red Cross Disaster communications for
severe flooding of the Verde River and I was only home to pack
for possible evacuation (the BBS might be a moot point later
that day), so "GET OFF MY BACK."
Fortunately, the floodwaters went down before the BBS did, and
his Netmail response was "Just kidding, I wanted to get you more
active." A couple of weeks later I got a v.32bis modem, and
started picking up echoes that he was already carrying, such as
OS/2 and SF. I asked for one that he didn't have, but after a
couple of weeks let that one go; I told him that I would not be
able to send money on top of the in-state Long Distance charges,
but at least I would be "participating."
Then, last week, I got a Netmail message informing me (and other
sysops in :304) that:
With lack of support <total>, we have no alternative but to
shut down our echomail feeds. We will likely be taking a few
feeds for our own use, however the free lunch has ended.
If any of you feel there is any value in the feeds you receive,
then you can continue them at $25 per year per feed, a sum that
barely covers the telco costs.
Since I can't afford to pay $25 per year (per echo?) on top of
in-state Long Distance for calls at 9600bps, that started me on
a hunt for alternate feeds by the cutoff date (7-1-93). This
has got me nowhere.
Not that I'm surprised. A couple of months ago I sent direct
Netmail to a number of other BBSes to try and get a better feed
for the SF echo (at that time, the SF feed was just unreliable
-- as of this date, it's been a month since I got a feed of SF).
It is possible that some of the sysops I've Netmailed did send
me replies, but since I have NEVER received a single routed
Netmail message in the 18 months I've been in FidoNet (a number
have been sent), not getting any now is no change.
I've even asked the NEC where I could get feeds -- his reponse was:
The fate of the echoes is up to you. Sure, you have LD
costs, but SO DO I. Mine are EXTREMELY COSTLY as I am
feeding ALL OF YOU.
$25 per year is a paltry sum compared to what I have to pay.
Your choice.
FidoNews 10-27 Page: 7 05 Jul 1993
Well, my choice had been to ask where I could get an
out-of-state feed, and he just deamnded money, so I still have
no idea were to look. Thus, it appears that BRASS CANNON will
just not have any Fido echos after this week.
In fact, since I haven't "supported the Net," I suppose the old
threat to de-node me will come back into force. C'est le
guerre. I'm a hour's drive away from Net 304 anyway. Maybe I
should request to be an independent node while I still have an
address to send mail from.
Anyone wishing to help me, I would like V.32bis feeds from
OUTSIDE ARIZONA, for these echoes:
BRIT_CAR
COMICS
FILK
OS2
OS2DOSBBS
RAILFANS
SF
SIP_INCEST
TEAMOS2
If you can help, please Netmail me DIRECTLY at 1:304/8 (or, if I
get de-noded before you reach me, 602-639-1039). Yes, I know
the NODELIST shows me at 2400bps, but we've been at 14,400 since
March (despite notes to the NC -- who also happens to be the
NEC).
This takes us full-circle. Is this goodbye to Fido?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
An open letter to David Stark.
Garth Kidd
3:800/828
In regard to your article entitled "An Open Letter to Joe Sysop" in
issue 1025 of Fidonews --
Firstly, IMHO you're suffering from an over-abundance of capitals in
your own title. Deem comments about glass houses and stone throwers
included, or perhaps shouts of "KLANK!" and veiled references to
cooking implements.
What I'm writing about, though, is your huge beef with "Joe" having
concealed a few details about his situation. You seem to view this as
proof that he's got something to hide, has a problem, has an
incompetent attorney, or indeed that he's guilty as all hell and is
just some kind of alias-using troublemaker out to stir the pot.
David, meboy, you've got an Attitude Problem. Pull your head in.
If somebody is a bit touchy about their privacy -- for example,
FidoNews 10-27 Page: 8 05 Jul 1993
someone who's just had half of their possessions raided away by the
police -- let them keep it until such a time that they feel like
giving you the rest of the facts.
Isn't the witholding of information ("taking the Fifth") one of your
constitutionally protected rights? If so, why assume that someone is
guilty of some crime or other if they decide to exercise that right?
Sheesh!
-- garth
[FYI, if he lived in Australia a likely reason for keeping his
identity secret would be that his lawyer told him to. Joe might well
be taking a legal risk by revealing the information he has. Which, of
course, makes him a law-breaking alias user in your eyes anyway, so he
=deserves= to rot in jail, right?]
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Comments about Jeff Murphy at 1:105/222.3 and VANPORT...
From: Gulliver Flynn (1:209/216)
Jeff, from my point of view, it looks like you tried
(unsuccessfully) to initiate a hostile takeover of an echo. You
wrote messages that were annoying and off topic, as declared by
the moderator, and you wrote about it in other echos (which can
also be considered annoying). You might be absolutely right in
your crusade, but you're doing it all wrong. Upsetting the
moderator isn't the best route to go, especially since he has
the authority to cut your feed. And it doesn't matter if you're
right or wrong, if you're being disruptive in an echo, the
moderator can (and should) cut you from it.
By the way, did YOU decide the echo needed you as the moderator,
or did the echo? If you decided it needed better/more/different
moderation, you're out of luck, and will probably be called a
fanatic, etc. If, on the other hand, the ECHO decided that
better/different moderation was needed, and you were the man to
do it, (although you handled it all wrong) you still have some
options left.
You SHOULD have had users/sysops of that echo NETMAIL the
current moderator complaining about the lack of moderation, and
ask that you be made the new moderator, etc. If that didn't
work... Drop the echo, get everyone supporting your cause to
drop the echo and start your own. Basically, vote with your feet.
FidoNews 10-27 Page: 9 05 Jul 1993
"Madness in FidoLand... Part I?"
by Jeremy Dailey (1:2613/276)
All seems quiet in FidoLand... or so it seems... until one
fateful Friday night...
Since I'm long distance and non-CM, I decide to poll my mail
server for my usual assortment of mail. Lo and behold, I
receive a NODEDIFF filled with 193K of changes, mostly for
Germany. What gives!?
Three days later... Polling for mail, I receive FidoNews, where
I learn of the Region 24 madness that has happened. All within
a matter of 96 hours, a section of the world has been changed.
Bizarre.
These events have caused me to ask the following questions:
1. Will this madness continue? I DON'T want to see 193K
NODEDIFF files each week when a region suddenly decides to
convert itself. I have to pay for my feed, and at 2400bps, it's
nasty.
As well, I'm SICK of seeing ARC as the standard for FidoNet.
Does ANYONE out there still use this ANTIQUATED software? I'd
push for LHA to be the standard, due to the fact that FidoNews
comes in that format, and IT'S FREE! No fees required for its
use; it's perfect!
Considering it would have shrunk that 193K NODEDIFF down to
around 130K...
2. Can regions just be taken over like that? I guess our
current Policy (4.07 -- last I knew) allows this sort-of thing.
There are no strict guidelines prohibiting or governing such
behavior.
After seeing this, we NEED A NEW POLICY DESPERATELY! I'm asking
that anyone out there who is SICK of this madness PLEASE speak
up! I want to see FidoNet move forward, NOT BACKWARD...
Along the same lines, I'd like to see which regions have NetMail
routing fully implemented. I know that at least in Regions 12
and 13, mail routing has been successful... (Coming from the
regions I've written to via Fido.)
Thank you... Please, bring peace and progress to FidoLand soon,
so I don't have to go griping like this...
Jeremy Dailey - Da Software Systems
17 Prospect St., Delevan, NY 14042-9704 - +1-716-492-4541 voice
1:2613/276@fidonet.org
176:1716/42@rccnet.ftn
jpd@rochgte.fidonet.org
FidoNews 10-27 Page: 10 05 Jul 1993
(US Mail address and telephone number good until August 30th,
when I move into a dorm room at RIT...)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
========================================================================
Fidonews Information
========================================================================
------- FIDONEWS MASTHEAD AND CONTACT INFORMATION ----------------
Editors: Sylvia Maxwell, Donald Tees, Tim Pozar
Editors Emeritii: Thom Henderson, Dale Lovell, Vince Perriello,
Tom Jennings
IMPORTANT NOTE: The FidoNet address of the FidoNews BBS has been
changed!!! Please make a note of this.
"FidoNews" BBS
FidoNet 1:1/23
BBS +1-519-570-4176, 300/1200/2400/14200/V.32bis/HST(DS)
Internet addresses:
Don & Sylvia (submission address)
editor@exlibris.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca
Sylvia -- max@exlibris.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca
Donald -- donald@exlibris.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca
Tim -- pozar@kumr.lns.com
(Postal Service mailing address) (have extreme patience)
FidoNews
172 Duke St. E.
Kitchener, Ontario
Canada
N2H 1A7
Published weekly by and for the members of the FidoNet international
amateur electronic mail system. It is a compilation of individual
articles contributed by their authors or their authorized agents. The
contribution of articles to this compilation does not diminish the
rights of the authors. Opinions expressed in these articles are those
of the authors and not necessarily those of FidoNews.
Authors retain copyright on individual works; otherwise FidoNews is
copyright 1993 Sylvia Maxwell. All rights reserved. Duplication and/or
distribution permitted for noncommercial purposes only. For use in
other circumstances, please contact the original authors, or FidoNews
(we're easy).
OBTAINING COPIES: The-most-recent-issue-ONLY of FidoNews in electronic
form may be obtained from the FidoNews BBS via manual download or
Wazoo FileRequest, or from various sites in the FidoNet and Internet.
PRINTED COPIES may be obtained from Fido Software for $10.00US each
FidoNews 10-27 Page: 11 05 Jul 1993
PostPaid First Class within North America, or $13.00US elsewhere,
mailed Air Mail. (US funds drawn upon a US bank only.)
BACK ISSUES: Available from FidoNet nodes 1:102/138, 1:216/21,
1:125/1212, (and probably others), via filerequest or download
(consult a recent nodelist for phone numbers).
A very nice index to the Tables of Contents to all FidoNews volumes
can be filerequested from 1:396/1 or 1:216/21. The name(s) to request
are FNEWSxTC.ZIP, where 'x' is the volume number; 1=1984, 2=1985...
through 8=1991.
INTERNET USERS: FidoNews is available via FTP from ftp.ieee.org, in
directory ~ftp/pub/fidonet/fidonews. If you have questions regarding
FidoNet, please direct them to deitch@gisatl.fidonet.org, not the
FidoNews BBS. (Be kind and patient; David Deitch is generously
volunteering to handle FidoNet/Internet questions.)
SUBMISSIONS: You are encouraged to submit articles for publication in
FidoNews. Article submission requirements are contained in the file
ARTSPEC.DOC, available from the FidoNews BBS, or Wazoo filerequestable
from 1:1/23 as file "ARTSPEC.DOC". Please read it.
"Fido", "FidoNet" and the dog-with-diskette are U.S. registered
trademarks of Tom Jennings, and are used with permission.
Asked what he thought of Western civilization,
M.K. Gandhi said, "I think it would be an excellent idea".
-- END
----------------------------------------------------------------------
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