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F I D O N E W S -- Vol.10 No.26 (28-Jun-1993)
+----------------------------+-----------------------------------------+
| A newsletter of the | |
| FidoNet BBS community | Published by: |
| _ | |
| / \ | "FidoNews" BBS |
| /|oo \ | +1-519-570-4176 1:1/23 |
| (_| /_) | |
| _`@/_ \ _ | Editors: |
| | | \ \\ | Sylvia Maxwell 1:221/194 |
| | (*) | \ )) | Donald Tees 1:221/192 |
| |__U__| / \// | Tim Pozar 1:125/555 |
| _//|| _\ / | |
| (_/(_|(____/ | |
| (jm) | Newspapers should have no friends. |
| | -- JOSEPH PULITZER |
+----------------------------+-----------------------------------------+
| Submission address: editors 1:1/23 |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Internet addresses: |
| |
| Sylvia -- max@exlibris.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca |
| Donald -- donald@exlibris.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca |
| Tim -- pozar@kumr.lns.com |
| Both Don & Sylvia (submission address) |
| editor@exlibris.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| For information, copyrights, article submissions, |
| obtaining copies and other boring but important details, |
| please refer to the end of this file. |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
========================================================================
Table of Contents
========================================================================
1. Editorial..................................................... 2
2. Articles...................................................... 3
Subject: BBS Rape........................................... 3
Communication? Co-Operation? -- Not in R24!................. 4
Oy Vey... que pasa en FidoNet!? Problemas!.................. 8
A Chain is as Strong as...etc............................... 10
European region 24 frauded by demented coords?.............. 11
Nothing in Particular....................................... 13
Online Conferences for Medical Laboratory Professionals..... 13
The Joys of Moderating, Or Beating Around the Bush.......... 14
Letter to the editor........................................ 22
Subject: An Open Letter..................................... 22
Zone Mail Hour - Still a good idea!......................... 23
Subject: Region 24.......................................... 24
3. Fidonews Information.......................................... 27
FidoNews 10-26 Page: 2 28 Jun 1993
========================================================================
Editorial
========================================================================
We have been receiving anguished letters from Gremany all
week. It seems that a few people at the top have decided that
the entire region 24 needs to be revised and *they* are the ones
who are going to do it.
As with all issues of this sort, *they* are possibly correct.
However, there is an interesting aspect of systems that I have
observed over the years.
If the users of a system do not want it, resent it, and are
determined that it will not work, it never does. That seems to
happen regardless of how good the system is, and regardless of
how much the system is needed. On the other hand, you can get
away with the worst system imaginable, provided the users want
to make it work.
Fido has always worked on the latter principal. Every sysop
knows just what a conglomeration of patches the entire system
is. Fidonet only works because thousands of individuals nurse it
along, day by day. And work it does. The mail goes through,
day after day. There is no group of ten or fifteen people in
the world that could make that happen, no matter how good they
are. And there is no group of ten of fifteen people in the world
that can stop it either.
Region 24 will either go one of two ways. The members will
go along, and thousands of people will change route maps, and
tinker with their machines until all works again, or region 24
sysops will not go along, and the mail will gradually work it's
way arround the people at the top; they will no longer be at the
top. The mail will flow again, leaving a lot of annoyed people
in it's wake.
Enough for now. Best to let the letters from Europe tell
their own story.
Last but =not= least: the article entitled "BBS Rape" was not
submited as an article, but was gleaned from an echo. We grabbed
it, and wrote to the author to authenticate it and get permission to
print it. We think this article elucidates sound reasoning which
should be considered in the caller-id issue, and in other BBS
users' confidentiality issues (ie: what problems for users could
ensue from names and numbers appearing in last caller lists?).
As a sysop of many years standing, I have come to realize that
the hate-mongers and abusers are not a separate group from the
BBS crowd. If you are in a minority, then the potential of
danger exists. Only the naive and the callous forget that.
FidoNews 10-26 Page: 3 28 Jun 1993
"Call it Intuition"
(old version)
Popular notion Dictates: Welloh well oh
Women are less logical, The trouble with control,
Women want to suffer, expedience, and logic
Women are incapable is that if you live
of making choices. in hell it makes sense
Make babies, not choices. to become masochistic.
Make love, then don't make If you have no choices
anything except breakfast, It is smart to not want
and serve it up to make up your mind
"New Version"
(complicated,
difficult)
Don't live in hell.
========================================================================
Articles
========================================================================
originally written as post on Feminism echo:
From: ------
To: All
Subject: BBS Rape
Some of you may recall that I periodically caution others to be careful
about what is said around here, on the grounds that sometimes harm can
befall a person on the basis of one's views and/or method of
expression. Some of you may also have seen me, here and in other
corners of the bitstream, speaking out against the practice of SysOps
being hard-nosed re: knowing everything about a prospective user,
without telling prospective users anything about themselves, before
giving access to BBSes. I've been called everything from an alarmist
to paranoid for this stance; to the name-callers I say, tough mammaries.
To the rest of you, though, I'll tell a story about a friend of mine.
It's a story I haven't told before, and I'll likely never tell it
again. I'm not about to give detailed information out of respect for
her memory; besides, anyone who thinks me an unreliable witness
probably wouldn't believe it anyway. I can't even promise that I'll
answer any replies sent to this message, as this story is a hard one
for me to tell.
I have always advocated not giving out one's personal information to
strangers called up on a modem. (This advice applies elsewhere, too,
but I've noticed people tend to be more willing to divulge personal
info to a BBS than they will to a voice caller. Go figger.) My friend
and I even rented out a P.O. Box together for the purpose of using
=that= for our address when calling BBSes. (These days I give an
electronic address, depending on which network I think the SysOp is
most likely to recognize and/or have access to use.) Even my birthday
changes from board to board; some SysOps think I'm 82, while others
think I'm 23. (If ever I wanted to make use of so-called "adult"
facilities on a BBS, then of course I'd prove to the SysOp that I'm of
legal majority; since that's not where my own interests lie, however,
there is no "need to know" on the part of the SysOp.)
FidoNews 10-26 Page: 4 28 Jun 1993
There was one SysOp, though, who she decided was trustworthy. She told
me her reasons -- his profession, his insistance that his only concern
for information was that nothing "illegal" happen on his board, his
guarantee of "confidential user records", and his personal references,
which she trusted. What she and I didn't know, though, was that the
BBS wasn't very well tended; apparently a lot of people had access to
the machine and SysOp access to the BBS.
I'm telling her story because she can't tell it herself. She hasn't
been able to tell it herself for some time now.
She's dead.
Her killer found her from those "confidential user records" from that
one SysOp she trusted enough to give her street address to.
There's not a law that will touch this SysOp, either, for being lax
with his "confidential user records". (I know this can be argued in
the abstract, but in =this= case the arguments have already been shot
down for reasons I can't go into without revealing details I don't want
to reveal.)
I recently had a netmail conversation with a SysOp who's very gung-ho
about Caller*ID. What disturbed me most about this conversation was
that he used a very common line ("the only users who don't like it are
there to Make Trouble") to justify it, and when I pointed out another
valid reason for not liking it he ignored my reason altogether. Just
had nothing to say about =that= part of my mail.
Certainly, corresponding with others via the bitstream is safer than
driving a car on the freeway, and probably even safer than taking a
shower in a non-decalled tub. But it's =not= 100% safe!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Communication? Co-Operation? -- Not in R24!
NOTE:
The major part of this article was written no 24 hours after the events
that threw R24 into pure chaos happened. After this part I added some
information about the actions which took place later until today, Fri-
day, 25th of June.
Hey, it's revolution time again!
or
Communication? Co-Operation? -- Not in R24!
by Markus Risser, 2:2400/105
It was complained about too little articles from zone 2? Maybe nothing
interesting happened in the past weeks. This suddenly changed in R24.
Read and be surprised...
Imagine following situation:
FidoNews 10-26 Page: 5 28 Jun 1993
It's a lovely sunday morning, quarter to ten a.m., you finally decide
to get up and do something with the day. Before you make breakfast or
do anything else you switch on your monitor as usual to check for new
mail. You find a strange mail in your local net's sysop echo, forwarded
by your NC. Astonished you read that your complete net will be elimi-
nated with the next nodediff as the complete structure of your region
will be changed dramatically, forcing you into a new net. Now even more
curious you discover that this anything else but an official statement
by your RC. Some NC's, NEC's, mailservers and the RC decided that they
know best what is good for a region consisting of 2000+ nodes and worked
out a top-secret plan to change the region structure, eliminating all
overlapping nets, create strictly regional new nets (one per state),
create and compile network files and plan to send them to the ZC2 (whom
they informed), so that 2000 nodes would learn from NODEDIFF.176 that
their net- and nodenumbers have changed and they don't even belong to
the nets they once chose to join. Yeah, you got it right. No piece of
information for the concerned nodes. Sounds unbelievable? Yes! Can never
happen? No! Happend this very sunday, June 20th, 1993 in R24, Germany.
And killed my appetite for the day.
To get more concrete:
In 1992 Erich Janssen became RC of Region 24, successor to Helge Ram-
dohr, who was "dethroned" after he tried to force the regional concept
by Ron Dwight with pressure on R24. Erich promised (and repeated this
promise at his re-election during the R24 vs. Ron Dwight-struggle) never
to force any regional nets in this manner. Now, 1993, he, several NC's,
NEC's and mailservers in R24 developed in absolute secrecy, just Ron
Dwight was informed, the new regional concept for R24. One net per
state, which means e.g. that Net 247, Bavaria, would consist of 350+
nodes. After they worked this out, they didn't present it to the public
so that this concept could be discussed, no, they decided to force it
like I described above. The network files should be sent to Ron Dwight
and processed before even one node in R24 would really know what was
happening. The NC and NEC jobs for the new regional networks were given
to members of this "conspiracy" in advance and their plan nearly would
have been succesful, throwing an entire region of 2000 nodes in absolute
chaos once NODEDIFF.176 would have been released and processed by the
nodes, if not one single person, Bernd Ascherl, who should become NEC
of Net 247, had broken the silence and informed some NC's of networks,
which were about to disappear and asked them to take action against
this. Our NC informed us, the nodes of Net 2400, in the sysop echo.
After I read the mail I spent fourteen hours in front of monitor and
telephone, hardly found any time to eat a bit, crashmailed nearly each
and every node in R24 I ever had mail contact with and asked them if
they knew about this matter and what their opinion was, with some of
them I talked voice. I found most of them shocked, some negatively sur-
prised, others absolutely terrified, others unknowing and rarely one
who would accept the new situation. The crashmail traffic went so huge
in the evening hours that I had to close my BBS for public access just
to handle the incoming and outgoing crashmails. Within this fourteen
hours, R24 got enraged.
Complete nets announced their resistance against this kind of dictator-
ship, so the RC and his companions were forced to release a statement,
in which they tried to explain their motivation and that all would turn
FidoNews 10-26 Page: 6 28 Jun 1993
out to be the best for R24 in long sight. Nothing but a bad joke and
not even worth the bytes it consisted of, especially if you saw one of
the network files they created. Several nodes crashmailed the IC, com-
plaints against ZC, RC and the rest of the gang were filed. Most nodes
in R24 will not compile NODEDIFF.176, if it gets released like it's
planned, and will use the new assigned nodenumbers. Fido-Germany is in
confusion.
My personal point of view:
Maybe this concept for a new structure in R24 is good, maybe even really
the best and in any case worth discussing. But such a major change
simply HAS to be DISCUSSED and ANNOUNCED. I always thought FidoNet was
about COMMUNICATION and CO-OPERATION. Obviously an error, at least in
R24. I'm very disappointed that the RC I voted for broke his promises.
I try to keep in touch with as many nodes as possible to check for news
and have found that it's very well possible that R24 will stand in
unity or at least wide majority against this action.
Would YOU accept to be listed in a nodelist with new net- and node-
number, without being ever notified?
Would YOU accept that you are listed under a NC you and the other
members of your net didn't elect? That your net is eliminated? That your
NC is suddenly just a node like any other?
I managed to obtain a copy of the network file for Net 247, the net I
and my fellow nodes in Net 2400 shall be forced in. I found my two ports
in two completely different unrelated hub-segments. Mysterious, huh? Ok,
in my Net 2400 the two ports are listed in two hub-segments too, but
with reason. My 2nd line is an ISDN-only line and in Net 2400 we have an
ISDN-only hub for ISDN-only nodes. In Net 247, my ISDN-line is in a wild
mixture of old-fashioned analog nodes and ISDN nodes.
The responsible ones said in their statement, the new structure shall
simplyfy everything. I see...
We will not accept this situation. Maybe you think we're just some more
of this crazy democracy guys, maybe you're right. But, please see -
maybe I even had accepted the whole thing as a concerned node who is
forced into another net and use a new nodenumber, if I had been notified
(or even asked) - but I will never accept to be listed in a nodediff
with new net- and nodenumber I never ever officially heard of. In fact
usually I don't even look at a new nodediff, as it is processed auto-
matically and if there is an important change for me the regarding up-
or downlink usually informs me in advance so I can make the necessary
changes, so I don't have to bother myself too much with reading node-
diffs. Imagine - I could have been listed with a new nodenumber without
any knowledge (what if I would have been in holiday? My system won't
change its nodenumber automatically...) Silly, isn't it?
We, in Net 2400, and many other will fight for our nets. If we are dis-
conected from echomail, we are ready to setup our own echomail system.
If this should happen, we need the support from other regions and zones.
Let's hope that this won't be necessary, that the guys who like power-
plays find back to their common sense again.
I and many other nodes in R24 now demand the immediate resignation of
ZC2 Ron Dwight, RC24 Erich Janssen and all *C's listed as independent
GCC-nodes in R24 in NODELIST.169.
FidoNews 10-26 Page: 7 28 Jun 1993
The IC is informed and I do hope he will act in a way that helps the
nodes and re-establishes the structures as they were in NODELIST.162.
Otherwise I have to think seriously about leaving FidoNet as a node,
and I think, I will not remain the only one.
I don't really know why I am so upset about the whole thing. Is it be-
cause people try to disturb my PERSONAL hobby in a way which would lead
every country's people to revolution if their politicians would behave
so? Maybe. Is it because I invested in this year alone more than
5,000 DM (three months work for me) in my system to keep it up-to-date,
to help making Fido even more attractive and effective and now see,
how all my efforts falls down to pieces? Could very well be. Is it be-
cause I can't stand any kind of dictatorship, regardless of how good
or bad the intention is? Probably.
All you out there - remember: the NODES are FIDONET. Not NC's, RC's or
ZC's.
Think about it - your region can be the next.
Written down on Monday, June 21st 1993.
The following was written down on Friday, June 25th 1993:
A lot of things have happend since Monday, and they give me hope that
our struggle will not be in vain, even though we learned that the IC
seems to support the concept - but I can't believe he supports the
WAY.
On Monday the first meetings took place - many nodes of the networks
242, 2401 and 2402 met in Duesseldorf and decided to build their own
echo mail distribution system, independent of those "conspiracy" mem-
bers.
On Tuesday about 60 NCs, NECs and nodes met near Nuernberg to discuss
a new backbone structure. In a very friendly atmosphere old enemies
forgot their antipathies and so very soon we could arrange a mail
distributing system via ISDN.
An impeachment against RC Erich Janssen was started. Our sysop echo is
full of complaints and flames against the GCC-"conspiracy", even a few
supporters of the new regulations appeared.
A net policy of one of the new founded networks was released - it con-
tains IMHO some demands that are not according to Policy 4.07 (not that
I personally am the big Policy-supporter, but the GCC-nodes and RC24
claimed that their action is fully supported through the policy), e.g.
a minimum online time from 0.00 am to 06.00 am or that the hub must
give his agreement before a NC can assign a node number to a new node.
Well, the pressure on the RC and his fellow GCC-nodes got harder and
harder, especially after the "resistance" found itself together after
the first shock and began to coordinate their activities. Our alter-
native region file is released.
According to some forwarded messages I just read RC24 Erich Janssen
just resigned - but not because he finally found out that he did the
maybe right thing in the wrong way, but because he got annoyed by the
flames and complaints he received.
It is not known yet how the other GCC-members will react now. I hope all
will get better now and maybe even come back to normality, but I'm still
prepared for any kind of action...
Markus Risser
FidoNews 10-26 Page: 8 28 Jun 1993
Oy Vey... que pasa en FidoNet!? Problemas!
Pablo Kleinman (1:10/100)
Hollywood, Republica de California
" Oy Vey... que pasa en FidoNet!? "
(ain't politics a wonderful thang?)
Puta, cabrones... grandes problemas are surfacing again in our
network, as the great powers that be try to impose more
'bullshittical' procedures on the rest of us. The highlight of the
week is perhaps the massive reorganization of nodes in Region 24
Germany, which I believe is the largest single region in FidoNet.
But it's not the only thing that's gonna be nagging us in the
coming days/weeks/whoknows...
Four years after a bunch of North American Fidocrats decided to
impose Policy4 on the rest of the International FidoNet, the
document remains incompatible with the operation of our network in
a large part of the world. In Germany, the geographic restrictions
introduced by Policy4 make the whole of Germany's FidoNet non-
compliant and therefore "in violation of Policy4."
If it were up to myself, and especially considering the size of
Region 24, I'd simply ignore that dummy policy doc and let live as
usual (unless I could actually trash P4 altogether, which y'all
know I would do). Ignoring the geographic rules was actually the
chosen path in Germany, and for four years, Region 24 grew
constantly and healthy. But not anymore. I haven't the foggiest
clue why now, but the Deutsch RC (I'm sure that with Ron Dwight's
blessing) decided to grab Policy4 up in the air and "vade retro
German sysops, you shall be made compliant!"
All in all, this means that with this week's diff and in a totally
arbitrary (and to my view irresponsible) way, over a thousand nodes
in Germany had their node numbers changed. Like that. The
traditional 15-or-so net structure was reorganized into fewer,
larger, "geographically-minded" units. Many German sysops are
complaining, but then whoever ordered this move knew the
consequences and did not (and does not) give a hoot about the
sysops' will (doesn't that sound new?).
Looks like Region 24 may soon become a smaller region, as many
sysops have said they will take off in disgust... ain't it a bit
big of a price to pay for having a "policy4-compliant region"? If
you're not sure, then how about the money it cost the rest of us to
transfer a record-long ('bout 300% bigger than normal) nodediff
this week?... Que lo pario!
I also received news hitting closer to home. This time, from the
FidoNews 10-26 Page: 9 28 Jun 1993
Old Un-Yankee South, Region 18. Let me quote a bit what a very
nonpolitical and quite respected sysop from that region was telling
me by netmail about the situation there:
> This fellow is really looking senseless and is even pressuring
> so that everyone votes in favor of this clump of little laws
> that will certainly pester our lives. The worst is that it
> establishes 50% + 1 of voters as a majority! This way, it is
> likely that we will have to endure a dictatorship of a minority.
>
> Very few were heard in their suggestions and the RC18 was
> perceptibly aggravated when anyone said anything against the
> doc. Those that worked in the project behaved the same way when
> anybody said anything critical of this mount of stupidities
> they've written.
>
> Everything was going smooth and simple until they decided to
> write this Policy18, that seems to me quite redundant when
> paired with Policy4. If the NC's decide to also write their
> policies, like many already did, the poor sysops will have to
> deal with 3 different policy docs!
Like that smarter-than-fidonet-coordinator guy in the Calvin Klein
ads says: "Can you feel it baby? I do to!" The control-freak
cronies are stepping firmer and louder now... And then you thought
everyone was unhappy with the way congress legislates? Ask a few of
those FidoNet coordinators!!!
One a lighter side, I just wanted to update you on the status of
1:1/4, the "official" zone gate (yeah, right) to Zone 4: OUT OF
ORDER. Yes, hermanos, the goddamn zonegate is still the old black
hole where mail never gets delivered nor bounced... one year and
counting, and still nobody does nothing to replace it despite the
several offers from operational links. In any case, route your
stuff to Zone 4 through 1:13/13 so that it will get there.
Salud, paz, sexo, y rock and roll,
-Pablo
pablito@scf.usc.edu
PS: Congratulations to the Argentine soccer national team that
advanced to the second round of the Soccer Cup America, and special
regards to all my fans in Dade County, in La Florida!
PS2: No te mueras nunca, Juan Perez!!!
PS3: I'm going to Vegas so your flames won't be read till next
week.
FidoNews 10-26 Page: 10 28 Jun 1993
A Chain is as Strong as...etc...
by John R. Pickens
1:205/33
The saying goes, "A chain is as strong as its weakest link".
This is true in just about anything, I suppose. And it is true of
Policy 4. For those of us in Region 10 we've learned Policy 4 is as
valuable a document as that stray bit of tissue adhering to the bottom
of our Air Jordan's as we exit a public restroom.
The weak link in this case is not the document. That distinction rests
solely on the shoulders of the person empowered to make decisions based
on the guidelines contained in Policy 4 - the Region Coordinator. In
fact, to characterize our RC as a weak link is to credit him far more
than his actions deserve.
His style is the non-decision. No matter how heinous the action, no
matter how exceedingly annoying the behavior, no matter the damage done
by another, our esteemed RC sits contentedly on his bloated fundament,
serene in his knowledge that he need not issue a statement until the
last possible moment, and then not until pressed to do so.
Once he is pressed into making a decision, one can depend, as surely as
one can depend on the rising of the Sun, or the changing of the tides,
to issue a decision that is sure to cause him the least possible
consequence.
This in itself would not seem to be so great a reason for discontent
but for the fact that, once a decision is rendered, it is glaringly
obvious that he has given the complaint only the most cursory, if any,
examination. This, you can well imagine, is cause for dismay, wonder
and many humorous asides. When asked for an explanation, a view into
this land of Oz from which he blindly plucked his supposedly "well
considered" decision, his explanations will often contradict the very
decision he originally handed down.
Through great, twisted leaps of logic, ignoring facts, disregarding
whole sections of Policy 4 and adhering rigidly to his personal creedo
of following the path of least resistance, our RC hands down his
decisions from on high.
Our RC cares not to be troubled, prefers to turn a blind eye as long as
he possibly can, zealously revers and prefers the status quo to taking
absolutely ANY action that may call attention to himself. No doubt, as
a child, he practiced swimming without making waves.
In short, he holds title only. He does whatever absolute minimum
administrative work must be done to keep this corner of this Network
rolling along and turns his back on the rest of those under his
jurisdiction to the detriment of all. I understand he's an attorney.
FidoNews 10-26 Page: 11 28 Jun 1993
God, how I pity his clients!
I forsee rebuttals. No doubt the most voluble from the person who has
benefitted most from our RC's protective umbrella of nonfeasance.
Probably from the RC as well. But there are too many of us who know
the truth of what I am saying. I'm not out to make converts. I'm just
stating plainly what a number of us here in Region 10 have learned
first hand - the HARD way!
And on behalf of those few of us who know what a great guiding beacon
of truth and justice you have been... David Garrett, you can kiss our
collective ass!
---
Addendum: I don't know what you other Regions are like. I truly hope
ours is just a bizarre, and RARE, abberation. But for those of you in
Region 10 - feel free to thumb your nose at Policy 4 with impunity!
Be outrageous, be creative, be bold, daring.. BE ALL THAT YOU CAN BE!
Rest assured that, should the complaint ever come before the Region 10
Coordinator, he probably won't even READ the complaint much less act
against you. Besides, he's set enough precedent by his ill-considered
decisions so almost NOTHING is currently against policy in Region 10.
Heck, I have sent mail out addressed as his own personal Net/Node
number and no one ever said WORD ONE. His own policy interpretations
have made it PERFECTLY OKAY TO DO SO!!!!!
Have fun friends!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
European region 24 frauded by demented coords?
Germany Goes Gothic!
by Mr. Nimble Node
(address unknown)
Excuse me, this text may come late to you, but I need some medical
help to serve a little wound. I have used a needle to wake up from
an ugly nightmare. But no chance, its reality. The only glimpse of
hope, the nurse looks nice, lasts only a few minutes...
Things started on Sunday afternoon, I get a call from another member
of our local net. I am laying in the sun, listening music, and then
a call on my very private phone line. Why cant that happen weekdays?
First insult, but not the major one.
Have you heard it? he asked me with fear in his voice. What, I asked
back. And get delivered some rumours. Our complete region will be
restructured next friday in one giant act. Cutting out all nodes
from the nodediff and putting them in with complete new node numbers.
All done with next nodediff, an early (don't laugh) announcement will
be spread on Thursday. One minute of silence, second insult, heart
attack. Hectic action takes place to verify this news, first canceled
a BBQ, second send some crash mails and try to call the local NC to
FidoNews 10-26 Page: 12 28 Jun 1993
proof this information.
Another glimpse of hope, he has no information about an upcoming
change in network structures. But he had heared the rumours too. He
is proofing too. Hope begans to grow, a heavy work of changing the
setup and routing plans wouldn't be necessary. Another phone call,
one of my downlinks got the news, he is on the way to take a plane
for a 4 weeks vacancy. With tears dropping through the phone line,
he begged not to change the link and the affiliated akas. Oh father
fate, today you're a son of Stephen King.
Wiggling and waiting I see the sun shining, the water sparkling and
the phone ringing. The NC has reached the RC and get a verification.
Yes its true, and hectic action takes part again. His position is
cancelled, no he dont knew any new node numbers, no he dont knew
who is the new NC. But it will be cleared immediately.
Now I start to check the rising hill of work. Its summer, the weather
is nice, we have had joy, we have had fun and now we got some hot
home work. (G-rated verbal expression)
You think thats enough for a nice sunday afternoon, breathing in, it
is superseded by the next insult. The local hub was informed about
the change and the location of the new host. Its a change from local
call to long distance call, and he drives a large system located at
a commercial site, that means he have to stay some addtional hours
at office loosing the benefits of central european summertime to
change the setup and establish all new links. Some of his nodes will
be moved to another net, he knews nothing and he will start his
holidays next week. He is not selfish, but also not selfabusive, so
he decided to resign from hub position and stop serving downlinks
with netmail and echomail at the time the change will take place.
You can feel the cold shower rising up my feet and grabbing my heart?
No single drop of blood left in my head, must look pale like white
linen. Only the fear of all hairs instant death and getting bald
moves me right back to life.
The next hours are filled with several phone calls, tries to find a
new hub, clearing the whole situation. All people I can contact on
late sunday afternoon and early evening are extremly annoyed about
the behaviour of the coordinators. All are flustered and dozens of
mails moves through the networks, discussing what is going on.
With an act of meditation I get back my inner peace and calm, think
over the situation and see whats happening: region pirating. We all
have seen sometimes an echo pirate, getting control by tricking an
echo coordinator about real moderatorship. But I guess nobody have
seen a group of people getting control over the coordinator positions
by stealing a whole region. What will be your feeling if your office
manager tells you that with the next weekend your division will be
part of a new company, there is a new CEO and you have to work in a
plant hundreds of miles away? Would be hard, but what if you are a
co-owner of this company?
FidoNews 10-26 Page: 13 28 Jun 1993
We ALL are FidoNet. Solely coords makes no network. Without nodes,
points and users there will be no FidoNet. Without hubs and their
selfless work to provide us nodes with netmail and echomail, there
will be no communication too.
A good social relationship needs an open mind, democratic behaviour
and the will to take care of each other. Not conspiratorial meetings,
secret organisations and obtrusions.
Communication brings together, communion brings friendship.
Coordination should bring together, cooperation brings real friendship.
Have a look at Europe, it's the place of the french revolution, the
source of evil wars and may be a black hole for nodes and netmails
in the next few weeks. Where is the cavalry? I am listening for the
trumpets signal.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nothing in Particular.......
Andy Heckel
Fido 1:203/15
Welp, it's time for me to again get off my butt and do something.
I am not sure what, but I'm sitting here, in my cheesy DOS 6 editor,
tapping away, nothing going on except thinking about what I've just
read. You know, I kinda liked the Policy wars...... Les see, where'd
we leave off, the 400,000,000 revision? I know, let's all go find the
higher ups, and castrate them (note, the editors may censor this
thing if they want). Nah, maybe not, it takes to long. We all want it
now. Hmmm, what else can I drag out of this hairy head o' mine?
(As the minutes tick SLLOOOOWWWLLLYYY by).....
Oh well, Nothing in Particular.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Online Conferences for Medical Laboratory Professionals
by Bill Hliwa, Med TechNet, 1:260/10
Online Conferences for Medical Laboratory Professionals
July 12 -- August 7, 1993
ONLINE LIS SYMPOSIUM
====================
Major LIS (Laboratory Information System) vendors will be on hand
in individual Med TechNet Electronic Offices to discuss their products
and views on LIS, and answer your questions.
Participants include: Cerner, System Analysis Corp, Citation Computer
Systems, Antrim, HBO & Co, and more!
FidoNews 10-26 Page: 14 28 Jun 1993
If you are a clinical laboratory professional, or know one ... this is
a must!
"Attend a national meeting without leaving home!"
(Med TechNet, 1:260/10, public line: 716/688-1552, 16.8K USR DS)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The Joys of Moderating, Or Beating Around the Bush
Jeff Murphy, 1:105/222.3
[What happens when a moderator abandons an echo? Can the echo
be "seized" by others to bring order to it? And what is the
authority of the NC when it comes to echomail?
Here in Net 105 we have an echo called VANPORT, a chatter echo
for users in Portland, OR and nearby Vancouver, WA. I moderated
the echo for a time a couple of years ago. As I left the area to
take a job elsewhere, I left it in good hands. When I returned,
the echo was a shambles. It was not being moderated at all.
After watching the situation for a year, I took the echo back
over. And then the excitement began. Before it was over, I was
removed from the echo. It's an interesting story.
I received a message from our NC, Randy Bush, who claimed he was
the moderator. Now, some of you know of Mr. Bush, and know how
fundamentally annoying he can be. You will see something here of
the state of the empire that has been created in Net 105, which
should long ago have been subdivided. It's a constant problem.
The way I dealt with it was to drop my node number and become a
point. But I digress.
So, basically, what follows is an abbreviated version of what
happens when people in power abuse it. Best to let the story be
told by the messages. We open with my reply to Bush's opening
salvo, his first message in the echo in a year:]
(608) Sat 29 May 93 1:57p
By: Jeff Murphy
To: Randy Bush
Re: VANPORT Rules
St: Local
> Jeff, you are not moderator of this echo. You are being
> extremely disruptive. Consider this your second warning
> before cutoff.
> End of story. You lose.
Randy, you are not moderator of the echo. You have not, in the
past year, functioned in that capacity. You have failed on
repeated occasions to provide a little guidance that would have
facilitated the conversations here. You have not provided echo
guidelines, nor an example. To be honest, I'm surprised you have
the nerve to pop in here with this kind of message.
FidoNews 10-26 Page: 15 28 Jun 1993
Consider this your first warning. [Second warning? What could
you be talking about?]
Since you raise the point, perhaps a little history review is in
order. At the time I moderated VANPORT, we had just gotten over
your introducing Stephen Furber to all of us. The echo was in
sad shape. I took the job and provided the needed guidelines. I
provided warning messages to those who violated those rules. I
made every effort to do so in a way that made the echo a safe
place for everyone.
In fact, the most trouble I have from anyone was *you*. :-)
And, if you recall, you got tired of being reminded of the echo
rules, picked up your marbles, created the DEBATE echo with rules
more to your liking, and left. It was a relief that you did: I
had already contacted the RC regarding the problems you were
creating, as I intended to cut your feed if you continued. When
you created your own fiefdom, the problem (and the associated
message posters who really wanted to argue more than they wanted
to talk) went away.
When I took the contract in Kansas City I left the job in capable
hands. When I returned in April 1992, you had it. In the past
year you have not performed the functions of a moderator in this
echo. Did you think that having your name listed in the Net 105
echo list was all it took? But that's a rhetorical question:
apparently you did.
In the process of your tenure, VANPORT has gone from an echo
carried nearly universally to one that most sysops don't bother
with. As a consequence, there is not any longer a general
chatter echo in Net 105. Since that is the intent of VANPORT,
would you not agree that the echo is failing the net, in it's
current form? Wouldn't it be only appropriate to moderate the
echo in a way that encourages conversations but cuts off
hostility?
But look at you. First message from you in a year, and not only
is it factually inaccurate, the "End of story. You lose." is a
revelation of the way you do business, wherever you post. See,
this echo is not a win/lose situation. Someone doesn't have to
lose. I certainly have lost nothing, as my goal was to have an
echo in which to communicate with the rest of the net - something
that doesn't exist outside of VANPORT. For all that we disagree
about practices, I've always fully supported your contention that
it be a requirement that sysops in Net 105 carry the Net 105
sysop echo, as that is where sysops are going to find out what's
going on. It only makes sense that this be a requirement of
being a member of the net, regardless of the sometimes unusual
<grin> conversations that I remember in there. Too bad VANPORT
could not be included in that same provision, so all users will
have access to each other in a single echo.
And *you* lose nothing. You haven't moderated the echo for a
FidoNews 10-26 Page: 16 28 Jun 1993
year, yet you've had the responsibility to do so. If you had
ignored this, let someone handle the chore who is certainly
capable of doing so, then no win/loss column gets lit up. It's a
change. A necessary change - like getting a new NC, for example,
with new ideas and approaches. Life goes on.
Now, it appears that my little coup has had the effect of
bringing you out of retirement, as it were. That was not the
intent, but if you really want to moderate the echo, hey, more
power to you! We all win that way too. You get involved, the
echo gets some guidelines, and maybe sysops start adding it back.
So, I don't lose anything. You don't lose anything, whichever
way you finally decide. But the echo is not *yours*. It is not
some kind of largess which you bestow on the supplicants. It is
ours*. You want to guide and direct it, fine. You want to
treat it like a petty kingdom, then you're gone. That's exactly
what you were doing two years ago when I was moderating and you
were taking potshots - in other words, your normal style <grin> -
at those who disagreed with you.
A word about moderating: since this is not anyone's private area,
and the moderation occurs as a service in any echo, the moderator
has to be involved with the echo. If you are thinking that
you'll shut me down and things will go back to no moderation, we
can do it your way. Or we can do it the right way. But in any
case, no one loses with a well-run echo. Or net. There will
always be some dissatisfied, as you know. But trust me, the days
of ruling with an iron hand are over. Moderators do so with the
consent of the governed - if they intend the echo to survive. I
care far more for the echo than I do who moderates. But the job
needs to be done. If you're going to do it, fine.
Now, if by first warning you mean the message you entered in
NET105, which was forwarded to my point, let's just look at it
in light of the above:
(39) Fri 28 May 93 11:24p Rcvd: Sat 29 May 8:05a
By: Lisa Gronke, DawgGone Disgusted (1:105/6)
To: Jeff Murphy
Re: <FWD> from NET105
St: Pvt Rcvd
Original Message Date: 28 May 93 16:00:17
From: Randy Bush
To: Lisa Gronke
Subj: Jeff Murphy and VANPORT
> I object to Jeff Murphy as moderator of VANPORT.
Why bother. If memory serves, Jeff is best just ignored.
And to Jeff, start to make a mess there, and you'll be cut
quicker than skedaddle.
FidoNews 10-26 Page: 17 28 Jun 1993
randy
* Origin: Bink of an Aye - Portland, OR US - Randy Bush
(1:105/42.0)
Are you saying that you, Randy Bush, as NC, will cut my feed, or
cut me personally? Are you saying that you, Randy Bush, as
moderator, didn't care to post your moderating message in the
echo you purport to moderate, but rather in a sysop echo which
has absolutely no bearing or relation to the handling of VANPORT?
You see there may have been some room for interpretation. So I'd
encourage you to be more clear in your comments. The first one,
of course, was a masterpiece. It had the value of making me mad
by hurting my feelings, which I assume was your intent. (You may
not understand this, Randy, but that's *sad*.) Surely there are
better ways to communicate. But you really haven't changed much
in the past five years, except to add profanity to your repetiore
of the terse and pithy, so I guess we can expect no change.
And that is precisely why you are not tempermentally suited to
moderate this echo. VANPORT requires that the moderator be able
to make people comfortable, people from physicians to
genealogists to naturists to atheists to gays to newbies to
plumbers. A certain level of hand-holding is required, and a
willingness to be repetitive and tutorial. You just don't do
this well. I'm not the best choice either, as I'm not good with
all kinds of people, but my teaching skills are good, and the
messages are clear. But I was the best choice we had until your
message. No one was *doing* it.
So it's only fair to ask you: will you do it? Will you moderate
the echo, and give it the direction it needs? Are you willing to
do some hand-holding, and soften your blows somewhat for the new
people who were afraid to enter a message in the first place?
You need to decide if you are willing to be fundamentally
compassionate. That's a requirement for this position.
If you really want this area not to be moderated, you can't have
it. No moderator can take an echo and permit it to go downhill,
and expect to be greeted with cheers. (In fact, no moderator can
expect to be greeted with cheers, I guess.) Maybe you were
offended that you were not consulted when I decided to moderate
the echo. My mistake. But, as I said before, if you intend to
return to active status, that's great for all of us. Let's hope
that, whatever you ultimately decide, you do it not because of
personal feelings toward me, but for the good of the echo. (And
if you attribute motives to me other than that, you are
mistaken.)
[In the MEMORIES echo, we were kidding about teasing moderators.
I posted the following, which discussed this further:]
FidoNews 10-26 Page: 18 28 Jun 1993
(107) Sat 29 May 93 12:00p
By: Jeff Murphy
To: Bob Breed
Re: Wagons West...
> Boy, you in a heap of trouble now. If I'm correct, I think
> Nolan is the Moderator of the Ask-A-Cop echo. (If you find cop
> cars following around downtown, he's probably turned your name
> over to some of his buddies in your hometown.
Great! They should be here any day now! <grin>
> (Grin....Nolan...note grin, grin, grin.)
Ah, yes, the fear of the authorities.
Look, I know this is off-topic, but let me tell you a little about
"authorities".
Here in Net 105 we have an echo called VANPORT. It is our local
chatter echo, intended to serve all 250(!) sysops in the net,
spanning the Columbia River between Portland and Vancouver, WA -
hence the name. I moderated the echo for awhile, before taking a
job in Kansas City and leaving the area. The person who gave me
the most trouble was our illustrious NC, Randy Bush. He has a
style which can only be described as "potshot". Finally, after
reminders and corrections too numerous to mention, he left the
echo and created his own, called DEBATE, which gives you some
idea of the content of his messages.
When I left, he took over moderatorship of VANPORT. The echo
deteriorated drastically, and a number of sysops quit carrying
it. I've been reading it since I came back into town last April
1992, and since then there has not been a single moderator
message, a single posting of the echo rules, or anything
resembling responsibility for the echo on the part of Randy. Oh,
he had his name listed as moderator in the local echo list, but
that was it.
A few days ago, after a particularly nasty message from one of
the participants, I commandeered the echo. Oh, I know, you don't
see that happen much. <grin> But you don't usually see this
kind of irresponsible moderating, either.
Yesterday I received a couple of messages forwarded from the
NET105 (sysop only) echo, which I do not get. Here's the one
that your comment to Nolan reminded me of. So if my feed gets
cut, you'll know why. Complaining to the ZC will do no good,
however. I did that when he was RC. The basic response to
anything Randy does is "Well, he brings in all the mail from the
other zones, see, and if we criticize him, we might offend him,
and...." That's why he's been NC here since ought-one, and why
there are 250 nodes in a single net. So, with impeccable
modesty, he suggests, in a message I'm unable to read until his
FidoNews 10-26 Page: 19 28 Jun 1993
assistant forwards it over,
[and here I quote the "skedaddle" message, above.]
It's ugly, but that's the kind of stuff we've seen by way of
Authority in this net since I joined in 1987. Worst part of it
is that he can probably threaten people enough to get them to
pull it off. When you stop to realize that the status quo he's
defending boils down to incompetence, it's a shame.
My apologies to all; you have the right to expect people to stay
within context. But I have no avenue to get this kind of
information in front of the people who need to see what a mess we
have in Net 105, and frankly, I expect he'll follow through on
his threat. He's pretty good at keeping track of his threats, if
nothing else. I only wish he'd had the courage to post it in the
echo in question, where it could be dealt with as it deserves.
---
* Origin: Mother Murphy's Point Portland, OR (1:105/222.3)
[One user disagreed with the need for moderation, and the point
was well made. I commented:]
(123) Mon 31 May 93 2:47p
By: Jeff Murphy
To: Jory Earl
Re: VANPORT message
> Well I personally fail to see why we as adults require
> moderation at all. We should be able to discuss our various
> opinions and beliefs in a way that does not invalidate the
> beliefs and opinions of others. It appears to me that this
> could easily devolve into a pointless bickering match when we
> are all equals in this endeavor.
I agree with you completely. And in fact, it has, hasn't it?
But I also think that adults, acting as such, don't require
moderation. It doesn't take a whole lot to decide to communicate
with someone in a way that is honest without being insulting.
> For myself, I prefer to see opinions and ideas contrary to my
> own, because that's what I think makes life interesting -
> Diversity. Without diversity life would not be worth living.
> IF, we do indeed require moderation, than I feel secure with
> such persons as Lisa Gronke leading the way.
Me, too. The only point that might be worth considering is
whether that "leading the way" will happen. I suspect it
probably will - if it is indeed Lisa that is going to moderate.
As I've pointed out, without rancor, such necessary intervention
has not occurred when required in the past. What I want is a
change from the "let's let them fight until they draw blood"
hands-off approach. Users shouldn't have to defend themselves as
FidoNews 10-26 Page: 20 28 Jun 1993
hard as they do in here. They deserve a certain level of
security, because as much as we might wish it otherwise, there
are those who are thoughtless of others' feelings. You should see
the messages that wander into the DIABETES echo from time to time,
for instance. That's all a moderator is for: to keep
conversations on track. Which is why I took the echo back, when
the job wasn't being done.
As I said in another message, there is no "loss" involved here,
and no "win". If Lisa is willing to moderate, I honestly don't
think there is a better choice in Fidonet. The only reason I
don't just drop it and wander away is the idiotic way in which
this whole thing has been done. Do you think Randy Bush will
honestly address the issues here? I've never seen him do it, and
I've been a sysop on and off in Net 105 since 1987. Will he drop
threats, one-liners, and other comments designed to squelch
rather than clarify? I don't know. But I can tell that's all he
ever *has* done, any echo I've seen him post in, with the
possible exception of some messages in RGN17. So while I hope
for better, I don't expect it. What Randy has done generally is
set Lisa up as the skilled negotiator to handle communication for
him. She is functioning as de facto NC, moderating the NET105
echo, running 105:6 - and the only rational objection to this,
since she does it so well, is the way in which it was done by
Randy, without accepting any input from the sysops of the net.
So, while the politics of this situation will not be clear to
those who have not been involved in the sysop echos, believe me,
my argument is not with Lisa - although I have no doubt it may
appear that way, as Lisa is effectively defending Randy's
position, a common practice of hers. Lisa certainly has
approaches that I disagree with, but I have *never* seen her be
offensive personally in the many messages I've seen her post.
And stylistic differences are not nearly as important as someone
the echo can respect. No doubt in my mind at all that she would
be a better choice than myself.
The question is: will that choice be made? Not as long as the
moderator of record does not do so adequately. Which was to
point of my taking back the moderatorship of the echo. I'm
certainly not interested in moderating the echo if there is
someone more capable who will. But neither am I going to be
side-tracked by the co-moderator argument. The echo has not been
adequately managed by the current moderator, and I am insisting
he clean up the mess by either 1) stepping aside, and I'll do it,
2) accepting the responsibility for neutrality, and moderating as
needed, or 3) turning the echo over to someone else who *will* do
the job. When I said that Lisa had no standing in the argument,
that's what I was referring to. It's just that in this case,
Randy is going to have to speak for himself - or not. See, his
public stance is that people like me are mere slivers in the
fingernail of life, and best ignored. If this runs true to form,
he'll refrain from saying anything until enough time has passed
that he can justify a fit of temper, and you'll see me banned in
unmistakeable language. <grin> Of course, that would only
demonstrate he was unqualified to moderate all along, and would
FidoNews 10-26 Page: 21 28 Jun 1993
leave the major questions unanswered.
Nobody in his or her right mind wants to moderate an echo.
People do it as a service to the other participants, and to get
the echo available on the backbone. So participants have a right
to consider whether they are being served. Thanks for listening.
---
* Origin: VANPORT Moderator Portland, OR (1:105/222.3)
[The echo awaited a reply from Herr Bush. Would he break form
and actually discuss an issue? Answer some of the questions?
No. In the meantime, Lisa Gronke claimed she was co-moderator,
which of course begged the issue, since she wasn't moderating
either, so that's what some of the comments below are about.]
(133) Mon 31 May 93 2:51p
By: Randy Bush
To: Jeff Murphy
Re: VANPORT Rules
And that's three. Bye Jeff.
Love and kisses,
randy
And to the normal users of this echo. Thanks for your patience.
The old timers will tell you we have to go through this silliness
every year or so. It is best ignored except by those who have to
clean it up. And now we return you to your regular program ...
--- QM v1.00
* Origin: DawgGone Disgusted, PDX OR US, +1(503)297-9145 (1:105/6.0)
[This, of course, was followed by a message to my bossnode to cut
my feed.
So, what's the point? Is Bush annoying? Of course. Did he act
within his role as moderator? Yes - until you consider that he
had abandoned that role. It is with a certain amount of
pleasure that I report he has since posted the first list of
rules in Vanport in the past year. So the battle was worth it,
if only to improve the echo temporarily. The underlying problems
remain. Fortunately, most of Fidonet doesn't have this kind of
problem. Do you? <grin>]
FidoNews 10-26 Page: 22 28 Jun 1993
Letter to the editor
From: Paul Stewart (1:229/318)
Subject: letters to the editor
Dear Editors,
I would like to respond to Richard Bash's article from Fidonews 10 24. I
would like to suggest that if each zone created their own fidonews, they
should include a section for "International News" so it would keep people
aware of things that would cross more than one zone.
Mike Rafferty
1:229/318
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Area Netmail, Msg#31, Jun-21-93 00:23:38
From: Brendan Keyport (1:138/185)
Subject: An Open Letter..
An Open Letter to Distributation sites of Nodelists, FidoNews,
and other weekly files:
Hello, I am sysop of N7UIE's Amateur Radio BBS (Fido Node
1:138/185) and have a complaint reguarding the distributation of
the NodeDiff, FidoNews and related files.
According to the TIC files I recieve, Each type of file I
recieve from my NC (I Recieve the NODEDIFF and FIDONEWS) has a
different password in the TIC. This creates problems with the
intellegent TIC processors such as ALLFIX.. In the case of
ALLFIX, Harold Harms has said that he feels that ALL tic's
coming from one system should have the same password, and I tend
to agree.
Now, to remidy this problem, I suggest the following.. 1) Get
together and create a GLOBAL password for all TIC's
distributated via the *C Structure, or eliminate the password in
the TIC's altogether, 2) Write a letter to FidoNews notifing
people of the change, and 3) Allow 1 Month for folks to change
to the new password or elimatate it in the config of their
favorate program.
If this is not done, I will have to change to about 6-7 utilites
(XRobot and TICK/Raid to name two) to provide the service of
converting files from the *C structure into .ARC archives for
the non-IBM types in the net. I do not wish to do this, and I
feel that steps need to be taken to resolve this problem now.
Brendan Keyport,
Sysop,
N7UIE's Amateur Radio BBS
1:138/185
FidoNews 10-26 Page: 23 28 Jun 1993
From: Thomas Holmstrom (2:234/127)
Zone Mail Hour - Still a good idea!
by Thomas Holmstrom, 2:234/127 (Sending from Copenhagen, Denmark)
In FidoNews Vol 10 No 23, Kevin Eastman commented the ZMH. All
lines beginning with an asterisk (*) is my comments to him (he
wrote his comments, with a "-" at the start of each line):
- Well, considering that the majority of systems currently in Fidonet
- are considered CM, meaning they can recieve mail 24 hours a day, the
- above statement is redundant.
* It is true that most systems is CM, but if you run a system with a lot
* of outgoing netmail, it'll be quite expensive to poll automatically during
* daytime, until all the mail is sent. Sending mail, costs money to. ZMH
* is the only time of day they can expect to get a mail-connect.
- If one tried sending a netmail message to a system that has echomail
- on hold for them, with the mailers out today, there is no way to
- prevent recieving the echomail that is on hold. So, am I to understand
- that if I do, then I am in violation of Policy.
* Okay, a paragraph in need to be changed, but still it has nothing to do
* about keeping ZMH.
- I have found that whenever I have tried to send a netmail message
- to a system, especially a busy one such as a Star or an RC, more often
- than not, I have to try them outside of Zone Mail Hour, as, with all
- the systems in Fidonet all trying to send netmail at the same time,
- most people don't have a hope in you know what, of getting it through
- during Zone Mail Hour anyway.
* But still, in ZMH mail is the only thing allowed, which gives you
* a better chance of getting connect.
- I, like many other people out there, do not have a lot of money for
- calling long distance to access a BBS. So, the only solution is to do
* True. And lots off big mail-systems doesn't have a lot of money either.
* Still, they must deliver the netmails in some way, which is done in ZMH,
* where mail also is cheap.
- I consider it accessively annoying to make users wait that one extra
- hour to get on a system.
* It is ONE SINGLE HOUR. Not 4 hours, not 8 hours, not one day a week.
* Wouldn't it be accesively annoying to make other systems poll you
* constantly in order to delivering one single letter, too?
- So you have a choice, you can be guilty of annoying behaviour for
- processing mail only, or you can be guilty of annoying behaviour for
- allowing the transferral of echomail and allowing users on your system
FidoNews 10-26 Page: 24 28 Jun 1993
- during that one hour. Personally, I think the users are more
- important, as, without them, whats the point of running a continuous
- system.
* If that is the way you feel, quit FidoNet(!). FidoNet is a MAIL network,
* not a big BBS-List. You can at least accept that for one hour a day!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Nicky Gilliar (2:2407/72)
Subject: Region 24
Hello Friends!
Region 24 needs your help.
There's big trouble coming, starting with the next nodediff (.176).
At Friday the now 16 existing (and many social) nets in our
region will be cancelled and replaced by 8 regional organised
networks:
240: Schleswig-Holstein/Hamburg + Mecklenburg-Vorpommern (v.)
241: Niedersachsen/Bremen
242: Berlin/Brandenburg + Sachsen (v.)
243: Nordrhein-Westfalen
244: Hessen
245: Rheinland-Pfalz + Saarland (v.)
246: Baden-Wuerttemberg
247: Bayern + Sachsen-Anhalt (v.) + Thueringen (v.)
This is planned to be the new structure. The official
announcement to the nodes in our region was planned for
Wednesday (just 2 days to prepare for the big bang), but a NEC
published the plan after his new NC tried to corrupt him
promising the NEC-position of the new net. And now the trouble
really begins :-)
It seems to be a long and good planned putsch of some *C's of
our region, including our RC, Erich Janssen. Here's the list of
some of the other "conspirators":
Netz-Coordinatoren:
240: Peter Reich
241: Peter Rohde
242: Peter Elsner
243: Wolfgang Schoenrath
244: Ralf Pradella
245: Wilhelm Weiler
246: Axel Golob
247: Toni Gerhard
I agree to their point that there must (or better: SHOULD) be a
change in Region 24. But the way they're trying to do is IS
FidoNews 10-26 Page: 25 28 Jun 1993
ABSOLUTELY UNACCEPTABLE.
our RC:
In the last RC election campaign (Nov/Dec 92), Erich Janssen
promised that whenever there would come a forced regionalisation
he would resign immediately. He promised not to force
regionalisation. That's the main reason why he got a huge
majority in the election ( > 400 votes difference). And now ? He
broke his promise, he deceived a whole region with 1700 or more
members. And his reasons? Let's quote from the official
announcement:
Er wird sich jetzt bei dieser Aktion darueber hinwegsetzen.
>He (the RC24) will ignore his promise in this operation.
Dies geschieht nicht aufgrund eines persoenlichen Beduerfnisses,
>This happens not due to a personal need
Macht auszuueben oder des Vergnuegens, Leute zu "beherrschen".
>to use power or because of the joy to rule over people.
Einzig und allein die Einschaetzung, dass dies der sinnvollste Weg
>The one and only reason is the appreciation, that this is the
>most reasonable way
fuer die Region ist und die Tatsache, dass diese Einschaetzung
>for the region and the fact that this view
von vielen mitgetragen wird.
>is also the view of many others.
As it seems up to now, this people are not supported by a
majority of the region-24 nodes. The Nodediff with the update
will come and it will be official. But in the moment we're
trying to create an own region list with the old networks for
the meantime until the changes will be cancelled. Many Nodes
will not process the new nodediff.
We're also trying to impeach our RC. another NC of this
"conspiracy" will be kicked out by his nodes very soon.
We are defending ourselves. Because there have been reasons for
this old chaotic structure. For example South-West Germany, the
"Baden-Wuerttemberg"-Area. Here we have 4 networks at the moment:
the 244 as a regional network with about 40 nodes
the 2407 as a social network with about 50 nodes
One Hub of the 248 with about 15 nodes
FidoNews 10-26 Page: 26 28 Jun 1993
And a part of the 241 (the biggest network in Zone 2) with > 200
nodes in the Baden-Wuerttemberg-Area.
These are grown structures, the old 2407-people got off the 244
about 2 years ago due to extreme personal problems. To put these
people together in one network is like to bake a dynamite-cake...
And what logic is this, the network with 40 nodes gets most of
the positions in a network that will have more than 300 nodes?
Let's quote another part of the announcement-mail:
Nach einer angemessenen Frist werden wir alle unsere
Posten zur Verfuegung stellen.
>translation: After a adequate time we (the *C's) will all
> place our jobs at somebody's disposal
Yesterday evening I had a voice chat with Axel Golob (at the
moment NC244, the coming NC246).
I asked him what is planned for the election of the NC-job. He
said: "nothing". I asked him whether there will be elections in
for example 6 or 9 months. He said: "There's no plan to have
NC-elections".
Strange...
Do you need any more evidence for this conspiracy?
The resistance is organising itself, but we need help from
outside of the region. I know that this people are "acting due
to the policy". But what advantages do you get if there are 2000
nodes, 500 are changing their nodenumbers and the rest quits
Fido? Or has to stay in nets and has to handle with people they
don't want to have contacts due to personal problems? Kick all
of them out of Fido? Hey, this is a hobby, not war or a
soap-opera.
Fido probably got to big to be changed like that. And you can't
change it this way without the very big risk to destroy more
things than to save things.
It's time to act and to stop this coup. It's better to let this
all unchanged than to drive a region into civil war.
The RC24 has to go. He says that he is acting with the blessing
of ZC2 (Ron Dwight), but can Ron take the responsibility for the
break-down of a region and a possible loss of 1000 nodes in his
zone?
ACT NOW!
Peace,
FidoNews 10-26 Page: 27 28 Jun 1993
Nicky Gilliar, 2:2407/72
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