8099 lines
292 KiB
Plaintext
8099 lines
292 KiB
Plaintext
|
||
072/417 11 Nov 89 03:25:00
|
||
From: Michael Corbin
|
||
To: All
|
||
Subj: For Immediate Release
|
||
Attr:
|
||
------------------------------------------------
|
||
November 10, 1989
|
||
|
||
ParaNet Information Service (Denver, CO)--This evening saw
|
||
perhaps an unprecedented event in UFOlogy. KLAS-TV in Las Vegas,
|
||
Nevada has been airing a UFO special during the evening news
|
||
which began on Monday dealing with the UFO mystery and cover-up.
|
||
The series, which has been covered by ParaNet, began its coverage
|
||
with a history of UFOs beginning in the late 1940s and moving
|
||
forward through the numerous sighting reports to the cattle
|
||
mutilations, which was aired last evening. As promised at the
|
||
close of last evening's show, George Knapp, a news anchorman for
|
||
Channel 8 in Vegas, stated that a scientific person would be
|
||
featured on tonight's program who has claimed to work at Area 51,
|
||
the government's super-secret test range at Nellis AFB in Nevada.
|
||
Indeed, quite a story was told by Robert Lazar, a physicist who
|
||
claimed that he had worked on a project at Area 51 involving
|
||
flying disks provided by alien intelligences.
|
||
Over the last year, ParaNet has carried stories relating to
|
||
possible involvement with the government in projects of this
|
||
nature at the Nevada test site. Up to now, the stories have been
|
||
of a very speculative nature. Although the material presented by
|
||
Robert Lazar remains unconfirmed, enough information has been
|
||
disclosed that ParaNet's large investigative staff in Nevada has
|
||
started an intensive investigation into this release. It is
|
||
interesting to note that Robert Lazar is an associate of John
|
||
Lear and has been providing this information to Lear over the
|
||
last few months. Lear has appeared on Channel 8 on numerous
|
||
occasions together will Bill Cooper discussing Lear's famous 'ET
|
||
Hypothesis.' According to Lear, Lazar was instrumental in
|
||
providing Lear with locations overlooking the test site which
|
||
would provide a good view of the objects as they flew into the
|
||
night sky. Lear attempted to shoot video of an object as it
|
||
maneuvered through the night sky during last summer, however
|
||
nothing was captured on the tape of a substantive nature. Lear
|
||
also relates that his group was harassed by a Lincoln County
|
||
sheriff following his attempts to take the pictures.
|
||
Below is a transcript of the program that aired this
|
||
evening. All paragraphs out of quotes are the narrator of the
|
||
segment. We were as accurate as possible on the transcription,
|
||
however there are a couple of places where comments were edited
|
||
out due to inability to understand what was being said.
|
||
Further reports will be provided as information becomes
|
||
available.
|
||
=================================================================
|
||
|
||
We've been working on the story for some time....UFO
|
||
researchers claim that there is a secret government within our
|
||
government. Now this may be hard to believe coming from the UFO
|
||
perspective, but we have learned that Watergate and the Iran
|
||
Contra scandal that factions within our government can and do
|
||
pursue their own hidden agendas outside of the law; outside the
|
||
control of the Congress or the knowledge of the American people.
|
||
This is exactly the type of operation that we hear about tonight.
|
||
It's a chilling scenario with worldwide implications that may
|
||
have its roots right here [Las Vegas, Nevada].
|
||
Area 51, that mysterious corner of the Nevada Test Site, is
|
||
no longer considered a secret. The fact that secretive things
|
||
go on here isn't evident; even to the Soviets who make daily spy
|
||
flights over the facility to take a peek at what's going on.
|
||
These photos, never before shown in public, are about as close as
|
||
anyone will ever come to seeing what the place looks like again.
|
||
The dry bed at Groom Lake, the corrugated buildings, a three-mile
|
||
long runway and some highly sophisticated radar and detection
|
||
equipment. Its been known by many names over the years --
|
||
Dreamland; The Ranch; The Skunk Works. If ever there was a place
|
||
to test the secret new technology, this is it. And that's
|
||
exactly what has been done here for decades.
|
||
Area 51 is where Francis Gary Powers and the other U-2
|
||
pilots were trained in the 50s. And, where the U-2 itself was
|
||
developed. The SR-71 spy plane that spotted Soviet missiles in
|
||
Cuba in the early 60s were also developed at 51. 51 is where
|
||
Stealth technology was nurtured, where Star Wars devices are
|
||
still tested, and where all manner of CIA [unknown] business has
|
||
been plotted and refined. It's the perfect place for secret
|
||
things, but of course, that's no secret. 51 is ringed by the
|
||
forbidden vastness of the Nevada test site; by the looming Groom
|
||
Mountain and by sparsely populated desert expanses. But the
|
||
people that do live out here have no love lost for the military,
|
||
but they're conservative, patriotic and they mind their own
|
||
business.
|
||
|
||
<Continued next message...>
|
||
|
||
--- FD 2.00
|
||
* Origin: ParaNet Administration =->Voice 303-232-8303<-= (1:104/428)
|
||
SEEN-BY: 19/19 101/667 104/422 428 108/110 114/37 115/876 120/80
|
||
SEEN-BY: 132/113 133/107 138/111 140/32 141/790 147/66 231/40
|
||
SEEN-BY: 252/18 265/12 268/102 283/630 304/1 3 363/17 382/33
|
||
SEEN-BY: 395/20 1063/304 30163/150 401
|
||
|
||
|
||
088/417 14 Nov 89 03:22:00
|
||
From: Robert Klinn
|
||
To: All
|
||
Subj: Area 51: The Nevada Test Site's Supersecret UFO Base?
|
||
Attr:
|
||
------------------------------------------------
|
||
With two top local TV stations here in Las Vegas -- KLAS-TV and KTNV-TV --
|
||
carrying deadly serious news reports this week of real alien UFOs POSSIBLY
|
||
being flown out of the supersecret Area 51, that portion of the U.S.
|
||
Government's Nevada Test Site which the Air Force refuses to acknowledge as
|
||
even existing, the situation here appears like The War of the Worlds.
|
||
Disinformation? Reality?
|
||
What next?
|
||
At KTNV-TV, photographer Clay Downey and reporter Glen Meek are tracking down
|
||
the nature of the on-going projects at Area 51. Off-air, Meek says he has
|
||
discovered that Area 51 is comprised of four sections. Of those, he has
|
||
learned the type of activity occurring at two of them. He has been having much
|
||
difficulty learning the type of activity occurring at the other two.
|
||
KTNV will broadcast reports this week at 5:30 p.m. Wed., Thurs, & Fri.
|
||
In a videotape presented by KLAS-TV newsman George Knapp, a UFO performs abrupt
|
||
manuevers over what may be the "S-4" portion of Area 51 at the Test Site.
|
||
Knapp's final report will be broadcast tonight, Tuesday at approximately 6:15
|
||
p.m.
|
||
Knapp's star witness is scientist Robert Lazar, who drew a picture of the craft
|
||
he saw operating at the base.
|
||
Lazar emphatically claims these are alien craft -- not human-made devices.
|
||
Lazar says at least one UFO appeared to have been ruptured by a projectile.
|
||
War of the Worlds?
|
||
Robert B. Klinn
|
||
--- QuickBBS v2.04
|
||
* Origin: -=<ParaNet Alpha(sm)>=- Denver, CO (303)232-6115 (1:104/422)
|
||
SEEN-BY: 19/19 101/667 104/422 428 108/110 114/37 115/876 120/80
|
||
SEEN-BY: 132/113 133/107 138/111 140/32 141/790 147/66 231/40
|
||
SEEN-BY: 252/18 265/12 268/102 283/630 304/1 3 363/17 382/33
|
||
SEEN-BY: 395/20 1063/304 30163/150 401
|
||
|
||
|
||
097/417 15 Nov 89 01:55:00
|
||
From: Michael Corbin
|
||
To: All
|
||
Subj: Installment on Dreamland continued.
|
||
Attr:
|
||
------------------------------------------------
|
||
November 13, 1989
|
||
|
||
ParaNet Information Service (Denver, CO) -- In our
|
||
continuing coverage of the remarkable revelations coming out of
|
||
Las Vegas, Nevada, here is the next installment to the program
|
||
aired on November 13, 1989 by television station KLAS-TV and
|
||
George Knapp.
|
||
|
||
=================================================================
|
||
News Anchor persons:
|
||
A former government scientist has alleged that the U.S.
|
||
military is flying recovered UFOs at a secret base in the Nevada
|
||
desert. The allegations about the secret facility near the Groom
|
||
Mountains first surfaced on Eyewitness News on last Friday
|
||
[November 10, 1989].
|
||
Scientist Bob Lazar says that there are at least nine of the
|
||
flying saucers being tested and that they were not built on
|
||
Earth. George Knapp has more on the continuation of our series
|
||
on UFOs.
|
||
|
||
Lazar: "Yeah. It was obvious it came from somewhere else, uh,
|
||
other than Earth."
|
||
|
||
Scientist Bob Lazar was convinced that the technology he saw
|
||
being tested at a secret base in the Nevada desert is of alien
|
||
origin, and for Lazar the proof is, at least, partially in the
|
||
furniture. One of the nine flying disks he says he saw at the
|
||
base, which was designated S-4, looks exactly like this UFO
|
||
photographed in Europe [Photo of UFO shown]. Lazar called it
|
||
the "sport model."
|
||
|
||
Lazar: "I gave everything names -- the top hat one and you know
|
||
the jello mold and, uh, the sport model operated without any
|
||
hitches at all. I mean, it looked new. If I knew what a new
|
||
flying saucer looked like. One of them looked like it was hit
|
||
with some sort of a projectile. It had a large hole in the
|
||
bottom and a large hole in the top with the metal bent out like
|
||
some sort of, you know, large caliber 4 or 5 inch had gone
|
||
through it."
|
||
|
||
Even before he saw the sport model operate, Lazar says, he
|
||
suspected that the ship came from somewhere else. The
|
||
realization slapped him in the face the first time he glimpsed
|
||
the inside of the disk.
|
||
|
||
Lazar: "I got to look inside and it had really small chairs. I
|
||
think that was the first confirmation I had. That was just a
|
||
shocking thing because everytime before that I was able to label
|
||
it. This is just a little advance that a group of scientists had
|
||
formed and, you know, they're keeping it secret, and yeah, we
|
||
could have built a big disk like that, and yeah, that's no
|
||
problem, and, you know, we could have adapted the use(?) to make
|
||
it fly, but why does it have little furniture inside? [garbled].
|
||
And things began to click together just all too fast."
|
||
|
||
A few of the disks had been completely dismantled to find
|
||
out how they worked, Lazar says, but others were fully
|
||
operational. A Japanese TV network created this animated version
|
||
of Lazar's story after his first interview with us aired in May
|
||
[showing video]. Lazar says the dramatization is similar to a
|
||
test flight he witnessed.
|
||
|
||
Lazar: "The bottom of it glowed blue and began to hiss like any,
|
||
like high voltage does on a round sphere. It's my impression
|
||
that the reason that they're round and have no sharp edges is to
|
||
contain the high voltage like, uh, if you've seen a high voltage
|
||
system's insulators -- things are round or else you get a corona
|
||
discharge. In either case, it began to hiss as in high voltage
|
||
and it lifted off the ground quietly except for that little hiss
|
||
in the background, and that stopped as soon as it reached about
|
||
20 or 30 feet."
|
||
|
||
Lazar says the test of the sport model was a short one --
|
||
that it made only a few moves before setting back down. He
|
||
didn't see who was actually flying the craft, but was very
|
||
impressed, nonetheless.
|
||
|
||
Lazar: "Well, there's no action reaction system to it. There's
|
||
no, like in a jet engine, exhaust gas being thrown out -- no
|
||
propeller, no noise. It's just, for all intents and purposes,
|
||
magic."
|
||
|
||
To Lazar's knowledge, the flying disks are not being used,
|
||
for say, any flights to Jupiter. He said excessive caution and
|
||
intense secrecy contributed to the plodding pace of the program
|
||
and were a main source of his disenchantment.
|
||
|
||
Lazar: "It's just unfair, outright, not to put it in the hands
|
||
of the overall scientific community. There are people much more
|
||
capable of dealing with this information, and by this time would
|
||
have gotten a lot further along than this small select group of
|
||
people working out in the middle of the desert. They don't even
|
||
have the facilities, really, to completely analyze what they're
|
||
dealing with."
|
||
|
||
Gene Huff: "Well he was being quiet. If he kept me abreast of
|
||
anything, he kept me abreast of the security checks -- they'd
|
||
randomly drop by his house. They'd threaten his life; they'd
|
||
threaten his wife's life. They had done all that so we really
|
||
didn't converse, I mean, he really was adhering to the program."
|
||
|
||
Gene Huff is a Las Vegas real estate appraiser. A regular
|
||
guy who just happens to have a friend in the flying saucer
|
||
business. He learned about Lazar's S-4 experiences only after a
|
||
long period. Lazar is anxious for people to know that he didn't
|
||
just run right out and spill the secrets of the universe, and
|
||
that some things are properly kept confidential.
|
||
|
||
Lazar: "I did not believe that this should be a security matter.
|
||
Some of it, sure. But, just the concept that there's definite
|
||
proof, and uh, we even have articles from another world, another
|
||
system, you just can't not tell everyone. A lot of people don't
|
||
believe that. But, I do."
|
||
|
||
When he reached what he felt was his bursting point, he took
|
||
Huff and a few others to the edge of the Groom Mountains to see
|
||
the flights for themselves. A total of five witnesses on two
|
||
consecutive weeks managed to dodge security patrols long enough
|
||
to see the strange glowing object lift above the mountain.
|
||
|
||
Huff(?): "Uh, it came up above the same mountain. It moved
|
||
around. It did a step move -- it actually went up in the air
|
||
like this [showing details with hands] and it hovered then
|
||
dropped way down then it just floated around and cruised around.
|
||
It starts coming up the mountain range...."
|
||
|
||
This home video tape was recorded during one of the trips to
|
||
the Groom Mountains [showing video tape. A lot of
|
||
talking....Object in sight....Mention of brightness of the
|
||
object....].
|
||
Admittedly, the tape proves very little by itself because,
|
||
with the distance and darkness, there are no reference points
|
||
other than the alleged flying disk, but Lazar's information about
|
||
the time and location of the test flight proves correct -- not
|
||
once but twice. That, according to our off-camera interviews
|
||
with each of the other witnesses. Gene Huff describes his second
|
||
sighting:
|
||
|
||
Huff: "Through the telescope we could see an elliptical-shaped
|
||
light. You can only get so close even with a telescope to a
|
||
secure facility. Anyway, it came up by us very rapidly. It
|
||
glowed and glows brighter like a star and we almost got the
|
||
feeling that it was going to explode, it glowed so brightly. We
|
||
backed up behind the car then it went down and glowed back up a
|
||
little bit and then very softly glided back over, back where the
|
||
mountains where it came up, hovered for awhile, and then that's
|
||
that....Just like you see in the movies."
|
||
|
||
Bob Lazar isn't the only person to claim "inside knowledge"
|
||
of the flying disks at the test site -- he is just the only
|
||
person to say so publicly. We have communicated with several
|
||
people who say they know of the saucer program. A technician in
|
||
a highly sensitive position told us it is "common knowledge among
|
||
those with high security clearances that recovered alien disks
|
||
are stored at the Nevada test site." A Las Vegas professional,
|
||
who once served in the military and was stationed at the test
|
||
site, said he saw a flying disk land outside the boundaries of
|
||
Area 51 -- that it was quickly surrounded by security personnel
|
||
and that he was taken away and debriefed for several hours. A
|
||
man who once worked at Groom Lake as a technician, at our
|
||
request, wrote this letter explaining how he inadvertently walked
|
||
into the wrong hangar and saw what appeared to be a large
|
||
metallic disk under a tarp. It was being examined by men in lab
|
||
coats. And, an airman who worked at Nellis at a radar
|
||
installation says he and his fellow servicemen watched over a
|
||
period of five nights, unusual objects flying over the Groom
|
||
Mountains. He says the radar images indicates the objects zoomed
|
||
into range at speeds of 7,000 miles per hour and then would stop
|
||
on a dime, and that nothing we have is capable of doing that.
|
||
The airman says that when word of his sighting got out, he was
|
||
ordered to turn off his radar sensors for that area and told to
|
||
keep quiet about the matter because it did not happen.
|
||
None of this means that the military is actually flying
|
||
alien spacecraft in the Nevada desert. It could all perhaps be
|
||
explained as some other secret program. Lazar insists that's not
|
||
the case.
|
||
We put the matter to the U.S. Navy, which according to
|
||
Lazar, is running the saucer show. Four different naval offices
|
||
were contacted. All denied having any information in their
|
||
files. The Naval Research Lab said it conducted a thorough
|
||
search but found "zip." Naval Intelligence said much the same
|
||
thing, adding, it is not required to create a file where one
|
||
doesn't exist. A side note: We also requested files on a UFO
|
||
sighting over Tremonton, Utah in 1952. The Navy spent more than
|
||
a thousand hours studying film of that sighting -- a fact that's
|
||
been noted in several publications -- but, for purposes of our
|
||
request, the Navy couldn't find those files either.
|
||
|
||
Lazar: "The group that runs this project, whether it really is
|
||
the Navy or they just say that, apparently these people have
|
||
executive power -- they don't report to anyone."
|
||
|
||
Tomorrow, more troubling allegations of the military
|
||
potential of alien technology.
|
||
|
||
=================================================================
|
||
|
||
This file is available on ParaNet as Area51-2.ufo.
|
||
|
||
--- FD 2.00
|
||
* Origin: ParaNet Administration =->Voice 303-232-8303<-= (1:104/428)
|
||
SEEN-BY: 19/19 101/667 104/422 428 108/110 114/37 115/876 120/80
|
||
SEEN-BY: 132/113 133/107 138/111 140/32 141/790 147/66 231/40
|
||
SEEN-BY: 252/18 265/12 268/102 283/630 304/1 3 363/17 395/20
|
||
SEEN-BY: 1063/304 30163/150 401
|
||
|
||
|
||
146/417 20 Nov 89 00:16:00
|
||
From: Michael Corbin
|
||
To: All
|
||
Subj: More on Lazar and Dreamland/Area 51
|
||
Attr:
|
||
------------------------------------------------
|
||
November 14, 1989
|
||
|
||
ParaNet Information Service (Denver, CO) -- In our
|
||
continuing coverage of the Riddle of Area 51, here is yet another
|
||
installment of the KLAS-TV program being aired in Las Vegas,
|
||
Nevada featuring Bob Lazar, who has 'come out of the closet' so
|
||
to speak with information regarding government testing of UFOs.
|
||
|
||
=================================================================
|
||
|
||
Just over this ridge [showing a photo of Area 51], tucked
|
||
inside the test tubes of a hidden government base, the secrets of
|
||
the universe may be unfolding. The area is designated S-4, and
|
||
according to one man who claims to have worked there, S-4 harbors
|
||
scientific achievements that would astonish our deepest
|
||
thinkers. It is technology that, if it exists, could change the
|
||
world, but is allegedly bottled up by military minds.
|
||
|
||
Lazar: "It's not an overall government project. It's not
|
||
something that Congress appropriates money for. 2 billion is for
|
||
this; 15 billion for flying saucers; 8 billion for Star Wars. It
|
||
doesn't go like that. I don't believe that they have any
|
||
knowledge of it at all."
|
||
|
||
The technology that Bob Lazar says he saw extends far beyond
|
||
flying saucers. An anti-matter reactor allows the spaceships to
|
||
produce their own gravitational fields, he says, such a
|
||
technology, if real, would answer UFO skeptics who argue that
|
||
aliens could never visit Earth because the distances between
|
||
worlds are too great, even at the speed of light.
|
||
|
||
Lazar: "Gravity distorts time and space. Just like if you had a
|
||
water bed and put a bowling ball in the middle. It warps it down
|
||
like that -- that's exactly what happens to space. Imagining
|
||
that you were in a spacecraft that could exert a tremendous
|
||
gravitational field by itself you could sit on any particular
|
||
place and turn on the gravity generator and actually warp space
|
||
and time, and fold it. By shutting that off, you'd click back
|
||
and you'd be a tremendous distance from where you were but time
|
||
would not have even moved because you essentially shut it off. I
|
||
mean it is so far fetched, people....it's difficult for people to
|
||
grasp, and as stubborn as the scientific community is they'll
|
||
never buy it, but this is, in fact, that's just what happens."
|
||
|
||
Actually, Lazar's explanation is very close to mainstream
|
||
scientific thought, and can be traced directly to Einstein. The
|
||
difference is scientists regard it as theory only. There is much
|
||
that science still doesn't know.
|
||
|
||
Dale Etheridge (Scientist): "There are people who say that our
|
||
main problem with that is we don't know what gravity is. It's
|
||
this magical force that acts at a distance. We can describe how
|
||
it behaves -- that's what the law of gravity is -- it's just a
|
||
description of how it behaves, but it says nothing about what
|
||
gravity really is."
|
||
|
||
|
||
We'll use Etheridge as our barometer of scientific thought.
|
||
He says we cannot produce gravity; that there's no such thing as
|
||
a working anti-matter reactor, and that we have yet to figure out
|
||
a way to get around the speed of light. He also concedes,
|
||
though, such things are possible.
|
||
|
||
Etheridge: "Yeah. And really we don't know what's possible as
|
||
there could be other civilizations out there several hundred
|
||
years or so -- a thousand years, even a million years ahead of
|
||
us -- that have found a way to circumvent this. We have no way
|
||
of knowing for sure."
|
||
|
||
Lazar: "Well, the thing is when you harness gravity, you harness
|
||
everything. It's the missing piece in physics right now. We
|
||
really know very little about gravity."
|
||
|
||
At least that's the way it used to be. Lazar says the
|
||
technology to harness gravity not only exists but is being tested
|
||
at S-4. And, if such technology is beyond human capabilities, it
|
||
must have come from someplace else. It's more than conjecture,
|
||
he says, because he also saw an element that cannot be found on
|
||
the periodic chart. The element, called 115, can be stored in
|
||
lead casings much like this one [showing a lead circular
|
||
container]. Lazar says the government has 500 pounds of it, and
|
||
it cannot be made on earth.
|
||
|
||
Lazar: "It would be almost impossible; well, it is impossible to
|
||
synthesize an element that heavy here on Earth."
|
||
|
||
Interviewer: "At least right now."
|
||
|
||
Lazar: "I don't think that you can ever synthesize it. The
|
||
amount of....you essentially have to assemble it by bombarding it
|
||
with protons if....atom by atom, it would take an infinite amount
|
||
of power and an infinite amount of time. The substance has to
|
||
come from a place where super-heavy elements could have been
|
||
produced naturally.
|
||
|
||
And what sort of place is that?
|
||
|
||
Lazar: "Next to a much larger sun where there would be greater
|
||
mass. Maybe a binary star system -- a super-nova -- somewhere
|
||
where there is just a bigger release of energy to synthesize
|
||
these things naturally. It has to be a naturally occurring
|
||
element."
|
||
|
||
115 is the fuel for the anti-matter reactors, he says. By
|
||
bombarding 115 anti-matter is produced. A kilo of anti-matter
|
||
could produce the energy equivalent of 46 ten-megaton hydrogen
|
||
bombs, and comparing the energy potential of anti-matter to, say,
|
||
the Hoover Dam would be like comparing planets to grains of sand.
|
||
115 could also make one heck of a bomb.
|
||
|
||
Lazar: "We're talking about hundreds and hundreds of megatons
|
||
off a small piece of it. It sounds incredible, but total
|
||
conversion of matter to energy would release that amount of
|
||
power. And it isn't that difficult to take....get the energy out
|
||
of it. So it's not something you'd ever want to fall anyone's
|
||
hands."
|
||
|
||
The dangers associated with 115 and anti-matter may be the
|
||
reason Lazar was hired to work at S-4. There was an accident, he
|
||
says, back in April 1987. An accident that was passed off as an
|
||
unannounced nuclear test.
|
||
|
||
Lazar: "Some people got killed. I was told flat out I was one
|
||
of the people that were to replace these guys."
|
||
|
||
Is this why the government might be keeping the whole matter
|
||
a secret? Because of the military potential of alien technology?
|
||
Lazar says he believes the Soviet Union was once part of our
|
||
research on the flying disks, but that the U.S. kicked the
|
||
Soviets out after making some sort of discovery. He also
|
||
believes the program at S-4 is operated with funds allocated to
|
||
Star Wars research, but says he can't prove it. Some UFO
|
||
researchers suspect the government is test flying alien craft so
|
||
that it can one day master the technology and claim it was made
|
||
in the good old U.S.A., thus obscuring the possibility of alien
|
||
visitations.
|
||
|
||
Stanton T. Friedman: "I think they have the duty to inform us.
|
||
At least to the bare bones of what's going on. I don't want
|
||
technological stuff put out on the table. I mean, I worked on
|
||
classified projects for 15 years, and I don't think we need
|
||
another weapon's delivery system. But I think the government
|
||
does have the responsibility to release information that, indeed,
|
||
the planet is being visited. Probably it should be done in
|
||
conjunction with the Soviets."
|
||
|
||
Lazar: "I don't think that it will get to that level. They're
|
||
not going to have a fleet of them and fly them around and....I
|
||
don't think you need to do that. If you're looking at them from
|
||
a weapons point of view, you're looking at an incredibly powerful
|
||
device. You only need one to operate. You don't ever need to
|
||
come public with it. You may want to learn more about it should
|
||
it ever break which is....might be what they're doing. Uh...."
|
||
|
||
Interviewer: "They've got one...."
|
||
|
||
Lazar: "Oh, they've got a few. Yeah."
|
||
|
||
Lazar is the first to admit that his story is tough to
|
||
swallow. He submitted to polygraph exams that opened up
|
||
sensitive parts of his personal life, and fully expects to be
|
||
ridiculed or perhaps punished for his revelations. His desire to
|
||
explain what really happened at S-4 took us to Layne Keck, a
|
||
licensed experienced hypnotherapist who quietly and privately
|
||
tried to help Lazar remember details of the many briefing papers
|
||
he says he read.
|
||
|
||
Keck: "I have no clue as to what we were getting to, and he
|
||
started saying that there were pictures of what I thought was
|
||
desks on the wall. Well as it turned out, it was disks that he
|
||
was referring to. And, at that moment, I realized we were into
|
||
something that was pretty heavy."
|
||
|
||
Keck does not exaggerate his claims for hypnosis. He
|
||
regards it as a useful tool for uncovering some lost memory. He
|
||
says people are quite capable of lying under hypnosis, but says
|
||
the technique can be of help in determining truth. What's his
|
||
opinion of Lazar's truthfulness?
|
||
|
||
Keck: "It tells me that his subconscious mind believes totally
|
||
all of these things."
|
||
|
||
Lazar has long suspected that his government employers used
|
||
some sort of mind control technique to prevent him from
|
||
disclosing too much about S-4. While he says he has vivid
|
||
conscious memories of the saucers and other technology there were
|
||
other memories, that even now, remained locked, which is why he
|
||
sought out Keck in the first place. Keck is convinced that
|
||
someone really did mess with Lazar's head.
|
||
|
||
Keck: "Also they used primitive fear in threatening those in his
|
||
environment if he did bring this information forth. Also, it
|
||
appears that maybe there were some chemicals used."
|
||
|
||
Lazar: "Nah, I'm not going to change anyone's mind. That not my
|
||
intention. I'm just relaying the experience. The job that I
|
||
went through. It is a fantastic thing. It's a fantastic story.
|
||
I can't take people there to show them what was going on, and uh,
|
||
you know, I don't expect anyone to believe it."
|
||
|
||
What if he is right? What if aliens are here? How would
|
||
this change our view of the world? Our most fundamental beliefs,
|
||
which is religion? We'll know more on that tomorrow.
|
||
|
||
=================================================================
|
||
|
||
--- FD 2.00
|
||
* Origin: ParaNet Administration =->Voice 303-232-8303<-= (1:104/428)
|
||
SEEN-BY: 19/19 101/667 104/422 428 108/110 114/37 115/876 120/80
|
||
SEEN-BY: 132/113 133/107 138/111 140/32 141/790 147/66 231/40
|
||
SEEN-BY: 252/18 265/12 268/102 283/630 304/1 3 363/17 371/10
|
||
SEEN-BY: 1063/304 30163/22 150 401
|
||
|
||
|
||
159/417 21 Nov 89 22:38:00
|
||
From: Robert Klinn
|
||
To: Bryon Smith
|
||
Subj: Re: Area 51: The Nevada Test Site's Supersecret Ufo Base?
|
||
Attr:
|
||
------------------------------------------------
|
||
The time for the KLAS-TV (Channel 8), Las Vegas, report is Saturday, November
|
||
25, 1989, 8:00 p.m. to 10:00 p.m. The program is titled, "UFOs: The
|
||
Evidence." Producer George Knapp says it will include the substance as well as
|
||
updates of material recently broadcast as the nine-part series, "UFOs: The
|
||
Best Evidence." (Incidentally, each of those nine parts was approximately 15
|
||
minutes, not one hour.)
|
||
Knapp also says that while he is personally interested in more UFO material
|
||
about Area 51, there is no more budget at his station to pursue it. This
|
||
contrasts with his on-air statement last week at the end of the ninth segment
|
||
of the series, to the effect that the Area 51/S-4/Robert Lazar/recovered alien
|
||
vehicles investigation is continuing; also earlier in the series, he had said
|
||
that this was only the beginning, that the investigation is "by no means" over.
|
||
--- QuickBBS v2.04
|
||
* Origin: -=<ParaNet Alpha(sm)>=- Denver, CO (303)232-6115 (1:104/422)
|
||
SEEN-BY: 19/19 101/667 104/422 428 108/110 114/37 115/876 120/80
|
||
SEEN-BY: 132/113 133/107 138/111 140/32 141/790 147/66 231/40
|
||
SEEN-BY: 252/18 265/12 268/102 283/630 304/1 3 363/17 371/10
|
||
SEEN-BY: 1063/304 30163/22 150 401
|
||
|
||
|
||
166/417 22 Nov 89 19:41:00
|
||
From: Robert Klinn
|
||
To: All
|
||
Subj: Robert Lazar on KVEG-AM
|
||
Attr:
|
||
------------------------------------------------
|
||
Theoretical physicist Robert Lazar and friend Las Vegas realtor Gene Huff --
|
||
in-studio guests on "Billy Goodman's Happening" live talk show, KVEG 840-AM
|
||
Radio, 10:00 p.m. 11/21/89 until 1:00 a.m. 11/22/89 -- answered questions for
|
||
three hours.
|
||
--- QuickBBS v2.04
|
||
* Origin: -=<ParaNet Alpha(sm)>=- Denver, CO (303)232-6115 (1:104/422)
|
||
SEEN-BY: 19/19 101/667 104/422 428 108/110 114/37 115/876 120/80
|
||
SEEN-BY: 132/113 133/107 138/111 140/32 141/790 147/66 231/40
|
||
SEEN-BY: 252/18 265/12 268/102 283/630 304/1 3 363/17 371/10
|
||
SEEN-BY: 1063/304 3607/20 30163/22 150 401
|
||
|
||
|
||
168/417 22 Nov 89 20:55:00
|
||
From: Michael Corbin
|
||
To: All
|
||
Subj: Update: Area 51
|
||
Attr:
|
||
------------------------------------------------
|
||
CONTRIBUTED BY: Robert B. Klinn, ParaNet Director of
|
||
Investigations/Research
|
||
========================================================
|
||
(C) Copyright 1989 ParaNet Information Service
|
||
========================================================
|
||
Theoretical physicist Robert Lazar and his friend, Las Vegas realtor, Gene
|
||
Huff -- in-studio guests on "Billy Goodman's Happening" live talk
|
||
show, KVEG 840-AM Radio, 10:00 p.m. 11/21/89 until 1:00 a.m.
|
||
11/22/89 -- answered questions for three hours.
|
||
|
||
These notes were compiled from 10:20 p.m., thus missing 20 minutes
|
||
(10:00 - 10:20 p.m.) of the three-hour program.
|
||
|
||
Lazar says he is tired.
|
||
|
||
1. Lazar's Purpose In Going On-Air:
|
||
Although Lazar's main stated purpose in appearing on the broadcast is to
|
||
protect himself, caller Bill Cooper says one of Lazar's motives is
|
||
anger -- previously expressed privately to Cooper -- that billions of
|
||
dollars are needlessly wasted in the normal U.S. sectors by those without
|
||
access to this alien technology. Lazar agrees.
|
||
|
||
Lazar says another reason for his appearing is to correct incorrect
|
||
information he had heard on previous broadcasts.
|
||
|
||
Billy Goodman says Lazar's, Bill Cooper's, and John Lear's lives are on
|
||
the line and that Lazar's best protection is the media, which is keeping
|
||
Lazar alive.
|
||
|
||
Lazar hopes "other people out there" working at S-4 will loosen up, come
|
||
forward, and join with him to present their information as one, as a
|
||
group. He doesn't want to be "the lone ranger."
|
||
|
||
Congressional amnesty -- suggested by a caller -- would be nice, says
|
||
Lazar, but merely offers freedom from prosecution. By coming forward,
|
||
he concedes, the other S-4 workers have everything to lose and nothing
|
||
to gain.
|
||
|
||
But Huff says there has to be a moral guideline where national security
|
||
has to hang in the balance and that the reporting of the existence of
|
||
alien spaceships is where you draw the line.
|
||
|
||
Caller Bill Cooper says there is "a higher value" that those at S-4
|
||
should consider as a reason for coming forward to join Lazar.
|
||
|
||
But Lazar makes a point of distinguishing his whole view of the UFO
|
||
situation from that of John Lear or Bill Cooper.
|
||
|
||
2. Verification of Lazar's Background:
|
||
Lazar says he worked at S-4 -- a "restrained military environment"
|
||
in Nevada -- from 12/88 to 4/89.
|
||
|
||
In response to callers who want independently to check up on Lazar,
|
||
he says his "colorful" background has already been checked by George
|
||
Knapp of KLAS-TV, who had traveled to Los Alamos Laboratories and
|
||
had spoken to former Lazar colleagues, who confirmed he really had
|
||
worked there -- in spite of Los Alamos itself denying the fact of
|
||
Lazar's employment with them. (Knapp's UFO broadcast displayed a
|
||
page from a 1982 Los Alamos Labs internal phone book, listing Robert
|
||
Lazar.)
|
||
|
||
Caller Bill Cooper, who says he has talked to Lazar for over a year,
|
||
says that by talking to persons at Lawrence Livermore Laboratory and at
|
||
another facility, he and associates have confirmed Lazar's previous
|
||
work in physics at the places Lazar specified. Lazar replied he was not
|
||
aware of this checking done by Cooper.
|
||
|
||
Responding to an "investigator" caller wanting Lazar to give him private
|
||
info in order to check him out, Lazar says Lazar himself once took a
|
||
correspondence course to be a private "investigator."
|
||
|
||
Lazar says he has 25 people each wanting independently to check him out,
|
||
but he will not allow that.
|
||
|
||
Although Lazar admits he was paid by check, he refuses to discuss anything
|
||
about the check stubs.
|
||
|
||
<Continued next message...>
|
||
|
||
--- FD 2.00
|
||
* Origin: ParaNet Administration =->Voice 303-232-8303<-= (1:104/428)
|
||
SEEN-BY: 19/19 101/667 104/422 428 108/110 114/37 115/876 120/80
|
||
SEEN-BY: 132/113 133/107 138/111 140/32 141/790 147/66 231/40
|
||
SEEN-BY: 252/18 265/12 268/102 283/630 304/1 3 363/17 371/10
|
||
SEEN-BY: 382/33 1063/304 3607/20 30163/22 150 401
|
||
|
||
|
||
169/417 22 Nov 89 20:55:00
|
||
From: Michael Corbin
|
||
To: Michael Corbin
|
||
Subj: Update: Area 51
|
||
Attr:
|
||
------------------------------------------------
|
||
<...Continued from previous message>
|
||
|
||
3. Lazar's Clearance Level:
|
||
He says neither REECO (Reynolds Electrical and Engineering Co., Inc.) nor
|
||
EG&G -- each a well-known U.S. Department of Energy Test Site
|
||
contractor -- has people at S-4, that those persons' clearances are at
|
||
most Q-Clearances, while his own clearance is "38 levels above Q-Clearance."
|
||
The closest to S-4 that REECO or EG&G people physically get, he says,
|
||
is Area 51.
|
||
|
||
4. Threats Made to Lazar/Lazar Shot At?
|
||
When Goodman refers to Lazar's telling him before the broadcast that
|
||
Lazar had been shot at, Lazar says he doesn't want to talk about it.
|
||
|
||
Lazar says he was called to go back to work but officially refused
|
||
because he didn't like the idea of returning to that isolated place
|
||
in the desert where they could do what they wanted to him.
|
||
However, he says his clearance has not been revoked.
|
||
|
||
Lazar says the executive powers at S-4 have run amok and there are no
|
||
checks and balances. Congress, he says, has no knowledge of all this.
|
||
Lazar says there are no lengths to which the military will not go to
|
||
conceal this information.
|
||
|
||
5. Mind Control Suspicions:
|
||
He contacted hypnotherapist Layne Keck of Serenus Clinical Hypnosis in
|
||
Las Vegas because there were a couple of days where Lazar remembered
|
||
only going out in a plane and coming back, but nothing in between.
|
||
He suspected mind control had been performed on him.
|
||
|
||
Lazar purposely selected Serenus because it had nothing to do with UFOs.
|
||
[A Las Vegas Yellow Pages ad says:
|
||
Serenus Clinical Hypnosis
|
||
Helen Baucum
|
||
30 years Experience
|
||
"Pin-Point" Method
|
||
Children Our Specialty
|
||
Weight Control, Stuttering, Bed Wetting, Nervous Tensions, Smoking,
|
||
Drinking, Memory Retention
|
||
384-4420
|
||
1833 W. Charleston (across from S. Nevada Memorial Hosp.)]
|
||
|
||
Under hypnosis, Lazar recalled intense drilling, threatening actions
|
||
taken against him, and his drinking of "pine," which his hypnotherapist
|
||
said was similar to the "Orion [sp?] Method" of regimented hypnosis used
|
||
by the military.
|
||
|
||
Per Huff, Lazar was given drugs and hypnosis by his employers -- not so
|
||
he would forget what he was working on, but so -- by their imprinting
|
||
his subconscious -- he would be afraid to talk.
|
||
|
||
Per Huff, after first telling Lazar his phone was tapped, the military
|
||
later threatened him because, having monitored his phone, they knew he
|
||
was planning to release information about the alien craft. Huff says
|
||
the military were amazed that the drugs and hypnosis had not worked.
|
||
|
||
Although he is afraid, Lazar hopes they won't come after him now since he
|
||
has already talked.
|
||
|
||
6. Location of the Saucers:
|
||
Lazar says the nine saucers are not at the supersecret Area 51
|
||
(Groom Lake) of the U.S. government's Nevada Test Site, but at S-4 --
|
||
10 miles south of Area 51. The disks are only at this one place.
|
||
However, to go to work, Lazar flew (by plane) to Groom Lake, waited a
|
||
short time at a cafe, then got on a bus [with blacked-out windows,
|
||
per Lazar's Knapp-series statements].
|
||
|
||
Lazar says he knows someone who drills tunnels at the Test Site, but
|
||
no mention is made that this individual also works at S-4.
|
||
|
||
7. Bad Aliens Killed S-4 Workers:
|
||
Lazar says the aliens are not benevolent.
|
||
|
||
Some humans were killed in a conflict after a U.S. military
|
||
intelligence power play, after which point a previously ongoing
|
||
information exchange ended.
|
||
|
||
Huff says Lazar earlier told him -- and Lazar agrees he had said this --
|
||
that this exchange of information occurred between the aliens and
|
||
human scientists/human security personnel [at S-4?].
|
||
|
||
But although the aliens had allowed themselves to be under constant
|
||
human guard, the aliens had insisted there be no bullets in the guns
|
||
worn by the security people. [Bullets may have been a symbol covering
|
||
all loaded weapons.]
|
||
|
||
The security people ignored that demand, and they all died from head
|
||
wounds -- which left no evidence of how they had died.
|
||
|
||
The aliens even killed the scientists they were teaching.
|
||
|
||
[On Knapp's broadcast last week, Lazar said he was told he was one of
|
||
the replacements:
|
||
George Knapp:
|
||
The dangers associated with 115 [the alien element] and anti-matter may
|
||
be the reason Lazar was hired to work at S-4. There was an accident,
|
||
he says, back in April 1987, an accident that was passed off as an
|
||
unannounced nuclear test.
|
||
|
||
Robert Lazar:
|
||
Some people got killed. I was told flat out I was one of the people
|
||
that were to replace these guys.]
|
||
|
||
Responding to a caller, Lazar says talking about aliens is NOT a touchy
|
||
subject for him. Aliens exist, he says.
|
||
[Lear, in an earlier On the Record KLAS-TV broadcast, says Lazar saw
|
||
aliens.]
|
||
|
||
|
||
<Continued next message...>
|
||
|
||
--- FD 2.00
|
||
* Origin: ParaNet Administration =->Voice 303-232-8303<-= (1:104/428)
|
||
SEEN-BY: 19/19 101/667 104/422 428 108/110 114/37 115/876 120/80
|
||
SEEN-BY: 132/113 133/107 138/111 140/32 141/790 147/66 231/40
|
||
SEEN-BY: 252/18 265/12 268/102 283/630 304/1 3 363/17 371/10
|
||
SEEN-BY: 382/33 1063/304 3607/20 30163/22 150 401
|
||
|
||
|
||
170/417 22 Nov 89 20:56:00
|
||
From: Michael Corbin
|
||
To: Michael Corbin
|
||
Subj: Update: Area 51
|
||
Attr:
|
||
------------------------------------------------
|
||
<...Continued from previous message>
|
||
|
||
8. Time of Saucer Test Flights:
|
||
The tests of the saucers at S-4 are Wednesday nights.
|
||
Lazar says he was fired because he showed people where and when these
|
||
tests were performed.
|
||
|
||
9. Who Pilots the Test Flights?
|
||
Lazar says the experimental UFO flights at S-4 are flown either by
|
||
remote control or by human pilots -- not by the aliens.
|
||
|
||
10. Origin of the Saucers at S-4:
|
||
The alien vehicles Lazar saw up close in hangars come from
|
||
"another world: "the fourth planet out from Zeta Reticulum II [sp?],
|
||
a binary system." [Same as on Betty Hill's map?]
|
||
|
||
11. Description of the Saucers:
|
||
He says he touched one of the nine UFOs and even stood in its doorway.
|
||
|
||
He says the saucers mostly appeared "like new" -- one of them looking
|
||
like the Billy Meier saucer.
|
||
[On George Knapp's recent series "UFOs: The Best Evidence" (KLAS-TV,
|
||
Las Vegas), Lazar says one of the saucers "looked like it was hit
|
||
with some sort of a projectile. It had a large hole in the bottom and
|
||
a large hole in the top with the metal bent out like some sort of,
|
||
you know, large caliber 4- or 5-inch had gone through it."]
|
||
|
||
The inside of one craft appears made of wax and then cooled off,
|
||
all like a cast or mold of one thing with no rough edges.
|
||
|
||
Inside were small chairs, one or one and one-half feet, as though
|
||
made for little kids.
|
||
(Compare with George Knapp's new Roswell witness who said on Knapp's
|
||
nine-segment broadcast that a Roswell funeral home worker had told him
|
||
the military had purchased all of the "baby or youth caskets" in stock
|
||
for the purpose of holding the Roswell aliens.)
|
||
|
||
12. Nine S-4 Saucers Extraterrestrial -- Not Earthly:
|
||
The nine disks he saw up close -- including the one he worked on --
|
||
were not earthly and were definitely extraterrestrial.
|
||
|
||
Lazar can't say whether or not the other disks he saw at a distance
|
||
during testing [seen on video presented in George Knapp's broadcasts]
|
||
are man-made or extraterrestrial.
|
||
|
||
13. Physics of the Saucers at S-4:
|
||
Lazar says the vehicle attaches itself to a distorted portion of
|
||
space-time and returns with the distortion. It's a new physics.
|
||
The vehicles brought a space-time warp with them.
|
||
|
||
Lazar says the propulsion technology should properly remain
|
||
classified, since everything there is looked at from a weapons
|
||
point of view. A lot is directly applicable to weapons systems, and he
|
||
has no intention of releasing it, he says.
|
||
|
||
But he says the craft uses gravity as a lens and the power source is
|
||
an anti-matter reactor.
|
||
|
||
Two Modes of Travel for Saucers at S-4:
|
||
1) When traveling around the surface of the planet, the vehicles balance
|
||
on a gravity wave or ride a wave like a cork on the ocean. In this
|
||
mode they are unstable and are affected by the weather.
|
||
|
||
2) For space travel, they use gravity generators. But if they fly
|
||
around the surface of Earth using this mode, they may flip over, a
|
||
phenomenon Lazar says has frequently been observed in past sightings
|
||
in the published UFO literature.
|
||
|
||
Two gravities: A & B.
|
||
Gravity A works on an atomic scale whose interaction is small and has
|
||
to do with fuel -- the alien Element 115 used for the disks.
|
||
|
||
Gravity B works on a macro scale.
|
||
|
||
The gravitational field is OUT OF PHASE with [unknown ?] and is like
|
||
a wave generator. It is LONGITUDINAL generation -- not spherical, as
|
||
a caller suggested.
|
||
|
||
14. Project Aurora:
|
||
"Aurora," says Lazar, distinguishing it from any UFOs, is the
|
||
replacement for the SR-71 plane. It uses a three-mile runway and
|
||
makes a sound like continuous explosions. It has speeds up to Mach 10.
|
||
|
||
15. No Alien Cattle Mutilations?
|
||
As far as HE knows, Lazar says, there is no alien UFO tie-in with
|
||
cattle mutilations.
|
||
|
||
16. Few Abductees?
|
||
More persons claim to be abductees than have actually been abducted,
|
||
suggests Lazar.
|
||
|
||
17. No Blue Diamond Entry Way for Saucers:
|
||
Notwithstanding UFO watchers congregating at Blue Diamond, Lazar says
|
||
there is only a gravity anomaly around Blue Diamond, not an entry way
|
||
for saucers into our universe.
|
||
|
||
18. Other Physics Comments By Lazar:
|
||
Time travel:
|
||
GRAVITY affects time. Moving FORWARD in time is "a breeze": All you
|
||
need do is get close to a gravitational field.
|
||
Moving back in time MIGHT also be possible.
|
||
|
||
Some physicists today, says Lazar, invoke superstring theories to simply
|
||
add another dimension to the universe whenever they can't explain something.
|
||
|
||
Referring to laser fusion experiments as "stupid," Lazar refers to a
|
||
location where they have been conducted.
|
||
|
||
Lazar also speaks of a process of squeezing plutonium.
|
||
|
||
In response to a caller's question, Lazar says M-42 is a galaxy.
|
||
|
||
19. Lazar says George Knapp's two-hour program on KLAS-TV,
|
||
Channel 8 in Las Vegas, this Saturday, 11/25/89, 8:00 p.m. to 10:00 p.m.,
|
||
will contain "much more information" than Knapp's recent nine-part,
|
||
two-hour UFO broadcasts last week.
|
||
|
||
=================================================================
|
||
|
||
This is contained in a file called 1122LACO.UFO in the Library.
|
||
|
||
--- FD 2.00
|
||
* Origin: ParaNet Administration =->Voice 303-232-8303<-= (1:104/428)
|
||
SEEN-BY: 19/19 101/667 104/422 428 108/110 114/37 115/876 120/80
|
||
SEEN-BY: 132/113 133/107 138/111 140/32 141/790 147/66 231/40
|
||
SEEN-BY: 252/18 265/12 268/102 283/630 304/1 3 363/17 371/10
|
||
SEEN-BY: 382/33 1063/304 3607/20 30163/22 150 401
|
||
|
||
|
||
181/417 24 Nov 89 21:29:41
|
||
From: Cyro Lord
|
||
To: All
|
||
Subj: Antimatter Drives and Area 51
|
||
Attr:
|
||
------------------------------------------------
|
||
From: cyrill@scicom.AlphaCDC.COM (Cyro Lord)
|
||
Date: 24 Nov 89 20:44:28 GMT
|
||
Organization: ALPHA Comm. Dev. Corp., Aurora, Co.
|
||
Message-ID: <2261@scicom.AlphaCDC.COM>
|
||
Newsgroups: info.paranet
|
||
|
||
|
||
>From: macleod@drivax.UUCP (MacLeod)
|
||
In article <265@oasis.mrcu> paj@mrcu (Paul Johnson) writes:
|
||
|
||
:A couple of months ago I read Robert Forward's book "Mirror Matter" in
|
||
:which he suggests that the practical use of antimatter is now
|
||
:possible. Are his ideas impractical? If not, what is being done
|
||
:about them?
|
||
|
||
Glad you asked about antimatter.
|
||
|
||
According to a series of reports on two Las Vegas television stations
|
||
(there is a two-hour special coming on 11-25 for those in the LV area)
|
||
one Robert Lazar, formerly employed by the government at the mysterious
|
||
Area 51, says that the US government has 500 pounds of element 115,
|
||
which somehow produces antimatter when irradiated.
|
||
|
||
This fuel is used to drive waveguide-type gravity amplifiers which
|
||
are the FTL drive components of nine alien spacecraft stored in hangars
|
||
out at Area 51 (the supersecret testing grounds also known as "Dreamland"
|
||
in the middle of the Nellis AFB bombing range about 65 miles northeast of
|
||
Las Vegas). From his brief description of how the drives operate, they
|
||
seem to create local black-hole strength gravity gradients which slow down
|
||
time and cause a space-fold quickly traversible by the spacecraft.
|
||
|
||
Lazar says he was hired to continue covert research into these spacecraft
|
||
and their engineering infrastructure after a former team of scientists
|
||
had screwed the pooch with a batch of element 115, forcing the AEC to
|
||
hurridly announce an "unscheduled" atomic test at Dreamland.
|
||
|
||
Don't flame me, call KLAS-TV in Vegas if you're curious. They will be
|
||
selling copies of the 2-hour special, due to the outpouring of interest
|
||
in it - stimulated by word of mouth and news propagated by ParaNet.
|
||
For some odd reason the national media have not paid any attention...
|
||
|
||
You can also get on the ParaNet mailing list by sending a note to:
|
||
scicom!infopara
|
||
Michael Sloan MacLeod (amdahl!drivax!macleod)
|
||
(This article is from the 'misc.headlines' newsgroup of USENET. If this
|
||
is a repost, please excuse the repost. -Cyro)
|
||
|
||
--
|
||
<---------------------------++++++++++++++++++----------------------------->
|
||
Cyro Lord Alpha Comm. Dev. Corp. - DOMAIN cyrill@scicom.alphacdc.com
|
||
UUCP {ncar,nbires,boulder,isis}!scicom!cyrill
|
||
Corn can't expect Justice from a court of chickens. (African Proverb)
|
||
|
||
--- ConfMail V4.00
|
||
* Origin: Paranet - The world's most important computer network (1:30163/150)
|
||
SEEN-BY: 19/19 101/667 104/422 428 108/110 114/37 115/876 120/80
|
||
SEEN-BY: 132/113 133/107 138/111 140/32 141/790 147/66 231/40
|
||
SEEN-BY: 252/18 265/12 268/102 283/630 304/1 3 363/17 371/10
|
||
SEEN-BY: 382/33 1063/304 3607/20 30163/22 100 150 401
|
||
|
||
|
||
191/417 25 Nov 89 22:25:00
|
||
From: Don Allen
|
||
To: Jim Speiser
|
||
Subj: Re: Newest Release..
|
||
Attr:
|
||
------------------------------------------------
|
||
Jim- ....Great approach, Don! I wish more people would do that. But when you
|
||
hand it out.. @ YES I DID! I did mention that it was unconfirmed. I may have
|
||
an open mind,but it ain't so open that my brains fall out! Fact is,one of
|
||
the people that I handed the releases to is a Naval Commander (reservist). He
|
||
was real interested,but didn't say much. I was particularly amused when he
|
||
asked that if anything else came out that he would like to see it.. Jim-
|
||
WHERE'S DA BEEF???? ....... VERY good question Jim....The LEFT side of my
|
||
brain is asking the same thing,however the RIGHT side is leaning heavily
|
||
towards considering it as more than true. Lazar's claims sure *seem* more than
|
||
credible... Sounds confusing,I know..but I keep the balance by continuing to
|
||
look for the "outpoints" of Lazar's story..things I'm mulling over:
|
||
|
||
Release-
|
||
"In response to callers who want independently to check up on Lazar,
|
||
he says his "colorful" background has already been checked by George
|
||
Knapp of KLAS-TV, who had traveled to Los Alamos Laboratories and
|
||
had spoken to former Lazar colleagues, who confirmed he really had
|
||
worked there -- in spite of Los Alamos itself denying the fact of
|
||
Lazar's employment with them. (Knapp's UFO broadcast displayed a
|
||
page from a 1982 Los Alamos Labs internal phone book, listing Robert
|
||
Lazar.)
|
||
|
||
@ Thats SOUNDS plausible..but how do we actually *know* that Knapp
|
||
checked up on him? Is there any documentation that Knapp can actually
|
||
SHOW (read-> Hard copy) that Lazar has worked the places he's claimed
|
||
to?
|
||
|
||
Release-
|
||
Caller Bill Cooper, who says he has talked to Lazar for over a year,
|
||
says that by talking to persons at Lawrence Livermore Laboratory and at another
|
||
facility, he and associates have confirmed Lazar's previous
|
||
work in physics at the places Lazar specified. Lazar replied he was not
|
||
aware of this checking done by Cooper.
|
||
|
||
@ Which Bill Cooper is this? Is this THE Bill Cooper who was (to put it
|
||
politely) kicked off Paranet for leaving inflammatory statements to
|
||
others? And if so,what credibility do we (users,Paranet) assign to
|
||
him? Are HIS "facts" checkable? Have they been in the past?
|
||
|
||
Release-
|
||
Lazar says he has 25 people each wanting independently to check him out, but
|
||
he will not allow that.
|
||
|
||
@ I can understand that. But how about a panel of 5 reputable people?
|
||
Certainly Dr Stanton Friedman should be one of the panel..
|
||
|
||
Release-
|
||
He says neither REECO (Reynolds Electrical and Engineering Co., Inc.) nor EG&G
|
||
-- each a well-known U.S. Department of Energy Test Site
|
||
contractor -- has people at S-4, that those persons' clearances are at
|
||
most Q-Clearances, while his own clearance is "38 levels above Q-Clearance."
|
||
The closest to S-4 that REECO or EG&G people physically...
|
||
|
||
@ Whew..How is anyone supposed to verify that? Maybe,just maybe the others that
|
||
worked with Lazar will come forth and support his story.
|
||
--- QuickBBS v2.04
|
||
* Origin: Gallifrey - ParaNet Nu(sm) - Orlando, Florida (407)273-9104
|
||
SEEN-BY: 19/19 101/667 104/422 428 114/37 115/876 120/80 132/113
|
||
SEEN-BY: 133/107 138/111 140/32 141/790 147/66 231/40 252/18
|
||
SEEN-BY: 265/12 268/102 283/630 304/1 3 363/17 371/10 382/33
|
||
SEEN-BY: 1063/304 3607/20 30163/3 22 150 401
|
||
|
||
|
||
194/417 26 Nov 89 15:07:00
|
||
From: Michael Corbin
|
||
To: John H. Chalmers Jr.
|
||
Subj: 115,Etc.
|
||
Attr:
|
||
------------------------------------------------
|
||
> (2) Element 115: I don't know any reason why 115
|
||
> would be useful in creating
|
||
> an antigravity field or creating antimattter, except
|
||
> possibly as an energy
|
||
> source in some sort of fission reactor. There is a
|
||
> predicted quantum mechanical
|
||
> "Island of Stability" around atomic numbers 112-116, but
|
||
> more recent
|
||
> calculations suggest that none of these elements would be
|
||
> stable enough to be
|
||
> isolated in macroscopic amounts. In contrast, only a few
|
||
> years ago some
|
||
> physicists thought that these elements might have half-
|
||
> lives in the millions or
|
||
> billions of years.
|
||
Thank you for bringing this up. I was hoping that some of our physics readers
|
||
would jump on this. Could you go further into the explanation about the
|
||
instability of the elements between 112 and 116? Furthermore, Lazar claims
|
||
that the vessel uses that in combination with a wave guide which, in his
|
||
diagram, is shown protruding from the top part of the reactor and protracting
|
||
to the top of the vessel with an antenna of a sort where it terminates. At the
|
||
bottom of the vessel is where the gravity amplifier is located.
|
||
|
||
Also, what are tachyons and how could they figure into this scenario. Is it
|
||
true that gravity could travel twice the speed of light?
|
||
|
||
> Antimatter is made today in small amounts; beams of
|
||
> positrons and antiprotons
|
||
> are used in particle accelerators. Neutral anti-hydrogen
|
||
> (positrons orbiting
|
||
> antiprotons) would be hard to store, but certainly
|
||
> synthesizable. It would be a
|
||
> great power source when it mutually annihilated with normal
|
||
> matter.
|
||
How could this work in propulsion?
|
||
|
||
Based upon what has been said thus far by Lazar, could you comment on your
|
||
feelings about his credibility as a physicist and his theories regarding the
|
||
overall implication of this.
|
||
|
||
Thanks for your time and contribution to this discussion.
|
||
|
||
Michael Corbin
|
||
|
||
--- FD 2.00
|
||
* Origin: ParaNet Administration =->Voice 303-232-8303<-= (1:104/428)
|
||
SEEN-BY: 19/19 101/667 104/422 428 114/37 115/876 120/80 132/113
|
||
SEEN-BY: 133/107 138/111 140/32 141/790 147/66 231/40 252/18
|
||
SEEN-BY: 265/12 268/102 283/630 304/1 3 363/17 371/10 382/33
|
||
SEEN-BY: 1063/304 3607/20 30163/3 22 150 401
|
||
|
||
|
||
198/417 27 Nov 89 04:28:00
|
||
From: Robert Klinn
|
||
To: All
|
||
Subj: S-4 Worker Backs Up Lazar's Claims
|
||
Attr:
|
||
------------------------------------------------
|
||
Six "Scared-To-Death" S-4 Workers Reportedly Meet Outside the Nevada Test Site
|
||
at Lathrop Wells to Unite and Join Lazar's Expose of Alien Saucers
|
||
On KVEG-AM Radio in Las Vegas, on The Billy Goodman Happening, 11/24/89, 10:00
|
||
p.m. to 1:00 a.m., with Robert Lazar on the line, another caller introduces
|
||
himself as "a colleague in Lazar's department."
|
||
Calling himself "MW" for Mercury Worker [Mercury is the military town inside
|
||
the Test Site], he distinguishes his work -- "hands-on" -- from Lazar's. MW
|
||
says he is a construction worker, installing and constructing.
|
||
He says he and others like him work in S-4 -- especially underground -- in deep
|
||
sections.
|
||
"We all know a lot."
|
||
"Someone had to install the hangars."
|
||
"There is more than tunnels -- everything you can imagine -- cause we did
|
||
everything."
|
||
He says people are now meeting in small groups to talk about backing up Lazar.
|
||
There was a meeting of six workers the night of 11/24/89, he says, to discuss
|
||
whether or not they should publicly say what they saw.
|
||
The five others are scared to death, he says. He himself sounds scared on the
|
||
telephone.
|
||
They are trying to get it where it will be safe for them to join Lazar, he
|
||
says.
|
||
The MW's are "putting something together to join you."
|
||
There are two more MW workers supporting you, he says.
|
||
"We got together at Lathrop Wells [a small town close to the southwest end of
|
||
the Nevada Test Site] and said we got to do something."
|
||
"Only two out of the six are willing to do something."
|
||
"The guys are for you."
|
||
Although encouraged, Lazar points out there's a ten-year jail term for them if
|
||
they talk.
|
||
--- QuickBBS v2.04
|
||
* Origin: -=<ParaNet Alpha(sm)>=- Denver, CO (303)232-6115 (1:104/422)
|
||
SEEN-BY: 19/19 101/667 104/422 428 114/37 115/876 120/80 132/113
|
||
SEEN-BY: 133/107 138/111 140/32 141/790 147/66 231/40 252/18
|
||
SEEN-BY: 265/12 268/102 283/630 304/1 3 363/17 371/10 382/33
|
||
SEEN-BY: 1063/304 3607/20 30163/3 22 150 401
|
||
|
||
|
||
228/417 28 Nov 89 19:19:44
|
||
From: John H. Chalmers Jr.
|
||
To: All
|
||
Subj: Reply to Mike Corbin
|
||
Attr:
|
||
------------------------------------------------
|
||
From: chalmers@violet.berkeley.edu (John H. Chalmers Jr.)
|
||
Date: 28 Nov 89 02:47:24 GMT
|
||
Message-ID: <1510@taos.AlphaCDC.COM>
|
||
Newsgroups: info.paranet
|
||
|
||
Mike: Based on what I have read on ParaNet, I can't take Lazar's physics very
|
||
seriously. I suspect that a professional physicist would feel that I am
|
||
understating the situation. I'm a biologist, not a quantum mechanic so most of
|
||
what I know is from secondary sources like textbooks, Scientific American, New
|
||
Scientist, The Sciences, or Stephen Hawking's recent best seller. Physics
|
||
isn't
|
||
my specialty, but I'll try to answer your questions.
|
||
Now if somebody were to offer me a piece of purported alien tissue or a
|
||
culture
|
||
of an ET microbe, I think I'd know how to authenticate it or how to find people
|
||
who could.
|
||
Elements decay by three principal routes, alpha emission, spontaneous
|
||
fission
|
||
and beta decay. The three controlling forces, the Electromagnetic,the Strong
|
||
Nuclear and the Weak Nuclear, are well understood with theory agreeing with
|
||
experiment to nine or ten decimal places in many cases. The computational
|
||
magnitude of systems as complex as heavy elements precludes exact calculations
|
||
even on supercomputers, but the best approximations suggest that elements of
|
||
atomic number around 114 are more stable than any nearby because the nucleons
|
||
(protons and neutrons) form closed or nearly closed shells. This phenomenon is
|
||
analogous to the chemical inertness of helium, neon and argon because their
|
||
electrons form closed shells (outside the nucleus) and there is little tendency
|
||
to arrange them in other configurations so that they could form bonds to other
|
||
atoms and make compounds.
|
||
However, this stability is not absolute and atoms decay spontaneously
|
||
with
|
||
half-lives (the time for 50% to change) ranging from more than 10 to the 33
|
||
years for Hydrogen to about 10-23 seconds for some extremely short lived
|
||
isotopes decaying by the Strong Force. Elements with half lives of weeks or
|
||
months can be isolated in weighable amounts though doing so is difficult and
|
||
dangerous, but isotopes with shorter half-lives can only be identified by
|
||
their
|
||
radioactive decay products. Only a few atoms of Element 109 have been made so
|
||
far, but the energies of the alpha particles emitted along its decay chain made
|
||
identification unambiguous. It's half-life is somewhere between a millisecond
|
||
and a microsecond.
|
||
Elements 110 and 111 are expected to be even less stable, so experimenters hope
|
||
to jump into the Stability region where half-lives are calculated to be longer.
|
||
|
||
Longer might mean 10-6 seconds or it might mean minutes or seconds. I don't
|
||
know what the latest predictions are.
|
||
The only way we have to make such heavy nuclei is accelerate atoms of
|
||
medium
|
||
weight elements such as calcium, carbon, etc. and smash them into heavy atoms
|
||
such as uranium. It takes a lot of energy to overcome the electromagnetic
|
||
repulsion to get the nuclei close enough so that the very short range (10-13
|
||
cm)
|
||
Strong Force can bind the compound nucleus together. If the atoms have too
|
||
little energy, they won't fuse, but if they have too much, they won't stay
|
||
together. The new nucleus is only marginally stable at best and will fission
|
||
if it has too much energy. Another problem is that the new nucleus may not
|
||
have
|
||
enough neutrons to be stable. If so, it will undergo beta decay as well.
|
||
If any elements around 114 or higher can be made they will be
|
||
important
|
||
confirmation of the standard model. They will also have interesting chemistry
|
||
since they will have more electrons than any know elements and some of these
|
||
electrons will be in g orbitals with somewhat different properties from those
|
||
in
|
||
d and f orbitals.
|
||
Tachyons are hypothetical particles with negative or imaginary rest
|
||
mass and
|
||
always travel faster than light. They have never been observed and no one knows
|
||
how to search for them. Since they travel faster than light, their
|
||
interactions
|
||
with normal matter would conflict with relativity. Gregory Benford, a
|
||
physicist
|
||
and award winning SF author, has written a serious paper about a "Tachyonic
|
||
Anti-Telephone" which would allow one to place a call to the past. Needless
|
||
to
|
||
say, this would violate causality as we understand it.
|
||
Invoking tachyons to explain some unknown effect is committing the
|
||
fallacy
|
||
known as "Ignotus per ignotum," using one unknown to explain another. If and
|
||
when tachyons are discovered, and assuming they have the requisite properties,
|
||
then they may be used to explain unusual events.
|
||
Now to antimatter: I didn't mean to imply that particle accelerators
|
||
bombard
|
||
anti-protons with positrons. High energy electrons collide with positrons and
|
||
protons with antiprotons to produce exotic particles such as the W and Z mesons
|
||
(the field quanta of the weak force).
|
||
if anti-Hydrogen and normal Hydrogen come into contact, the positrons
|
||
and the
|
||
electrons will mutually annihilate to generate two gamma rays of .51 Mev. The
|
||
antiprotons and protons of the nuclei will also annihilate, but they do so in a
|
||
more complex fashion which produces a lot of intermediate particles. The end
|
||
result is the conversion of the mass of both the normal and the anti-matter to
|
||
energy according to Einstein's equation, E= mc2 (E=energy, m=totalmass, c=speed
|
||
of light).
|
||
The resulting gamma rays could be reflected off a heavy shield and used
|
||
for
|
||
propulsion as a high energy photonic drive. Such as system seems to be the
|
||
only
|
||
feasible energy source for interstellar flight according to the articles I've
|
||
seen.
|
||
Small amounts of antimatter could be made if anybody wanted to. For
|
||
powering
|
||
interstellar spacecraft travelling at relativistic velocities, thousands or
|
||
millions of tons will be required, alas.
|
||
The energy released in ordinary fusion or fission reactions is only a
|
||
small
|
||
fraction of this energy and comes from the binding energies of the nuclei:
|
||
fission and fusion are the nuclear analogs of fermentation, while
|
||
matter-antimatter annihilation is analogous to terminal oxidation. The nuclear
|
||
energies are about a million times larger than the chemical energies, however,
|
||
and this is why terrestrial organisms don't/can't use nuclear power in their
|
||
metabolism.
|
||
The yet undiscovered field particle of the gravitational force, the
|
||
fourth of
|
||
the known forces, is the graviton. It would travel at the speed of light. I
|
||
don't know of any justification for the notion that gravitational effects
|
||
propagate at 2*c.
|
||
Although gravitational radiation has not been observed directly,
|
||
certain binary
|
||
star systems are losing energy at the rate calculated for gravitational
|
||
radiation, so physicists are reasonable confident about the standard model.
|
||
Gravitational radiation antennas with sufficient sensitivity are being
|
||
constructed, so direct observation could occur soon.
|
||
Wave guides are conductive tubes which direct electromagnetic waves
|
||
(radio
|
||
waves, light, etc). I have no idea if a gravitational wave guide or amplifier
|
||
is
|
||
even theoretically possible. The people to ask are gravitational theorists
|
||
such
|
||
as Kip Thorne, John Archibald Wheeler or Robert Forward (who also writes SF).
|
||
Forward has designed some hypothetical anti-gravity devices based on
|
||
standard
|
||
physics. One involves passing the mass of a neutron star though a toroidal
|
||
coil
|
||
the size of a football field in a millisecond to neutralize the earth's gravity
|
||
field in the center by generating the gravitational analog of the magnetic
|
||
field. The other methods are even less practical.
|
||
The problem is that gravity is 10 +43 times weaker than the Strong
|
||
Force and
|
||
thus hard to study in the laboratory. One wishes to manipulate masses of at
|
||
least planetary size. Also, the gravitational field is always attractive and a
|
||
function of the geometry of space-time
|
||
i hope all of this wordage answers your questions. These are
|
||
fascinating areas
|
||
and one can go on and on.
|
||
--John
|
||
|
||
--- ConfMail V4.00
|
||
* Origin: Paranet - The world's most important computer network (1:30163/150)
|
||
SEEN-BY: 19/19 101/667 104/422 428 114/37 115/876 120/80 132/113
|
||
SEEN-BY: 133/107 138/111 140/32 141/790 147/66 231/40 252/18
|
||
SEEN-BY: 265/12 268/102 283/630 304/1 3 363/17 371/10 382/33
|
||
SEEN-BY: 1063/304 3607/20 30163/3 22 100 150 401
|
||
|
||
|
||
251/417 29 Nov 89 18:45:28
|
||
From: Usenet News
|
||
To: All
|
||
Subj: Lazar and his Amazing Saucers
|
||
Attr:
|
||
------------------------------------------------
|
||
Date: 29 Nov 89 20:47:15 GMT
|
||
Message-ID: <1519@taos.AlphaCDC.COM>
|
||
Newsgroups: info.paranet
|
||
|
||
Hello, paranet friends,
|
||
|
||
I have been reading the newsletter from paranet for some time now.
|
||
This is my first posting.
|
||
|
||
+I just had an interesting thought...if you had been sitting on the secret
|
||
+of S-4 and dreamland for a long while, and had instructions to release the
|
||
+information to the public only if it would not cause a crisis, what better
|
||
+time to stage-leak the real story, as most of Eastern Europe and the Soviet
|
||
+Union call off the cold war? Perhaps what Reagan was telling Gorbachev
|
||
+in their summit conferences is that we'll all hang separately if we don't
|
||
+hang together.
|
||
+
|
||
+More paranoia from,
|
||
+
|
||
+Michael Sloan MacLeod (amdahl!drivax!macleod)
|
||
|
||
Regarding Lazar, I just wonder about the fact that we are on the eve
|
||
of a summit of great significance to the entire world. As much as
|
||
we would all like to believe this intriguing tale (since so many
|
||
questions would be answered), I have to think that our government
|
||
has a powerful motivation at the moment for promoting this kind of
|
||
idea.
|
||
|
||
Given the credulity of Soviets on this subject, how likely is it
|
||
that the Soviet intelligence community is going crazy right now
|
||
trying to verify this story before the summit? Is this all
|
||
designed to throw Gorbachev off balance?
|
||
|
||
If our government tried to announce such a thing (supposing it is
|
||
false) they would be innundated with requests for demonstrations
|
||
and explanations, which would ruin the ruse. But the region where
|
||
these events are alleged to have occurred would be under constant
|
||
scrutiny by Soviet agents, given the history of the area. The
|
||
agents assigned to the area probably observed the news programs
|
||
with great interest.
|
||
|
||
Then there is the involvement of Cooper. Readers will have to judge
|
||
for themselves the significance of this.
|
||
|
||
Here is my scenario:
|
||
Lazar works for some intelligence outfit. His background was wiped
|
||
out (ineffectively) in the hopes that the attempt to erase his
|
||
history would give credibility to his story. Others that come
|
||
forward are part of the same effort. Some are actual believers
|
||
who have been convinced by the thoroughness of the deception.
|
||
|
||
The information is released in controlled packets, perhaps some
|
||
intelligence leaks were provided directly to Soviet agents to
|
||
prepare them to be receptive when the television program came on.
|
||
It all is building up so that the climax of the scam occurs just
|
||
before the summit. The result is that Gorbachev is off balance
|
||
and Bush has the advantage.
|
||
|
||
|
||
I think this is much more likely than the possibility that what
|
||
Lazar says is true, for these reasons:
|
||
|
||
1) If this project were so top secret as Lazar says, he would
|
||
never have appeared on that program. Lazar said they knew
|
||
he was going to leak in advance. If that were true he
|
||
would have been dead. They would not wait until now to
|
||
take sniper shots at him, and if they did, they wouldn't
|
||
miss.
|
||
|
||
2) Bill Cooper has discredited himself, and he appears to be
|
||
involved.
|
||
|
||
3) After reading on the subject, I am inclined to believe that
|
||
the spiritual/supernatural/extradimensional aspect is the
|
||
most significant. I could go into this, but let me just
|
||
say that I too have been reading Dimensions, and the ideas
|
||
presented there make more sense than anything else I have seen
|
||
on the subject. This story does not fit the scenario.
|
||
Instead it fits into a neat materialistic mold which would
|
||
allow the military to control the phenomena by purely
|
||
physical means. This does not mean it is necessarily bogus,
|
||
it just makes me suspicious. It is too neat; too easy and pat.
|
||
|
||
4) The gov't has a history of "leaking" bogus UFO stories.
|
||
|
||
5) They are motivated to try to maintain the upper hand by the
|
||
significance of this summit, in light of political developments.
|
||
This whole thing may have been generated directly in response
|
||
to developments in Eastern Europe.
|
||
|
||
6) The whole thing may be relatively unimportant to our intelligence
|
||
community - just another little game to try to keep the other
|
||
guys confused, and good practice at generating disinformation.
|
||
|
||
|
||
Sorry, it's just too bizarre to believe without tons of corroboration
|
||
from many independent sources.
|
||
|
||
Cheers,
|
||
--Steve
|
||
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
||
{uunet,sun}!convex!swarren; swarren@convex.COM
|
||
|
||
--- ConfMail V4.00
|
||
* Origin: Paranet - The world's most important computer network (1:30163/150)
|
||
SEEN-BY: 19/19 101/667 104/422 428 114/37 115/876 120/80 132/113
|
||
SEEN-BY: 133/107 138/111 140/32 141/790 147/66 231/40 252/18
|
||
SEEN-BY: 265/12 268/102 283/630 304/1 3 363/17 371/10 382/33
|
||
SEEN-BY: 1063/304 3607/20 30163/3 22 100 150 401
|
||
|
||
|
||
257/417 01 Dec 89 02:31:53
|
||
From: Usenet News
|
||
To: All
|
||
Subj: Lazar and his Amazing Saucers
|
||
Attr:
|
||
------------------------------------------------
|
||
Date: 29 Nov 89 20:47:15 GMT
|
||
Message-ID: <1519@taos.AlphaCDC.COM>
|
||
Newsgroups: info.paranet
|
||
|
||
Hello, paranet friends,
|
||
|
||
I have been reading the newsletter from paranet for some time now.
|
||
This is my first posting.
|
||
|
||
+I just had an interesting thought...if you had been sitting on the secret
|
||
+of S-4 and dreamland for a long while, and had instructions to release the
|
||
+information to the public only if it would not cause a crisis, what better
|
||
+time to stage-leak the real story, as most of Eastern Europe and the Soviet
|
||
+Union call off the cold war? Perhaps what Reagan was telling Gorbachev
|
||
+in their summit conferences is that we'll all hang separately if we don't
|
||
+hang together.
|
||
+
|
||
+More paranoia from,
|
||
+
|
||
+Michael Sloan MacLeod (amdahl!drivax!macleod)
|
||
|
||
Regarding Lazar, I just wonder about the fact that we are on the eve
|
||
of a summit of great significance to the entire world. As much as
|
||
we would all like to believe this intriguing tale (since so many
|
||
questions would be answered), I have to think that our government
|
||
has a powerful motivation at the moment for promoting this kind of
|
||
idea.
|
||
|
||
Given the credulity of Soviets on this subject, how likely is it
|
||
that the Soviet intelligence community is going crazy right now
|
||
trying to verify this story before the summit? Is this all
|
||
designed to throw Gorbachev off balance?
|
||
|
||
If our government tried to announce such a thing (supposing it is
|
||
false) they would be innundated with requests for demonstrations
|
||
and explanations, which would ruin the ruse. But the region where
|
||
these events are alleged to have occurred would be under constant
|
||
scrutiny by Soviet agents, given the history of the area. The
|
||
agents assigned to the area probably observed the news programs
|
||
with great interest.
|
||
|
||
Then there is the involvement of Cooper. Readers will have to judge
|
||
for themselves the significance of this.
|
||
|
||
Here is my scenario:
|
||
Lazar works for some intelligence outfit. His background was wiped
|
||
out (ineffectively) in the hopes that the attempt to erase his
|
||
history would give credibility to his story. Others that come
|
||
forward are part of the same effort. Some are actual believers
|
||
who have been convinced by the thoroughness of the deception.
|
||
|
||
The information is released in controlled packets, perhaps some
|
||
intelligence leaks were provided directly to Soviet agents to
|
||
prepare them to be receptive when the television program came on.
|
||
It all is building up so that the climax of the scam occurs just
|
||
before the summit. The result is that Gorbachev is off balance
|
||
and Bush has the advantage.
|
||
|
||
|
||
I think this is much more likely than the possibility that what
|
||
Lazar says is true, for these reasons:
|
||
|
||
1) If this project were so top secret as Lazar says, he would
|
||
never have appeared on that program. Lazar said they knew
|
||
he was going to leak in advance. If that were true he
|
||
would have been dead. They would not wait until now to
|
||
take sniper shots at him, and if they did, they wouldn't
|
||
miss.
|
||
|
||
2) Bill Cooper has discredited himself, and he appears to be
|
||
involved.
|
||
|
||
3) After reading on the subject, I am inclined to believe that
|
||
the spiritual/supernatural/extradimensional aspect is the
|
||
most significant. I could go into this, but let me just
|
||
say that I too have been reading Dimensions, and the ideas
|
||
presented there make more sense than anything else I have seen
|
||
on the subject. This story does not fit the scenario.
|
||
Instead it fits into a neat materialistic mold which would
|
||
allow the military to control the phenomena by purely
|
||
physical means. This does not mean it is necessarily bogus,
|
||
it just makes me suspicious. It is too neat; too easy and pat.
|
||
|
||
4) The gov't has a history of "leaking" bogus UFO stories.
|
||
|
||
5) They are motivated to try to maintain the upper hand by the
|
||
significance of this summit, in light of political developments.
|
||
This whole thing may have been generated directly in response
|
||
to developments in Eastern Europe.
|
||
|
||
6) The whole thing may be relatively unimportant to our intelligence
|
||
community - just another little game to try to keep the other
|
||
guys confused, and good practice at generating disinformation.
|
||
|
||
|
||
Sorry, it's just too bizarre to believe without tons of corroboration
|
||
from many independent sources.
|
||
|
||
Cheers,
|
||
--Steve
|
||
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
||
{uunet,sun}!convex!swarren; swarren@convex.COM
|
||
|
||
--- ConfMail V4.00
|
||
* Origin: Paranet - The world's most important computer network (1:30163/150)
|
||
SEEN-BY: 19/19 101/667 104/422 428 114/37 115/876 120/80 132/113
|
||
SEEN-BY: 133/107 138/111 140/32 141/790 147/66 231/40 252/18
|
||
SEEN-BY: 265/12 268/102 283/630 304/1 3 363/17 371/10 382/33
|
||
SEEN-BY: 1063/304 3607/20 30163/3 22 100 150 401
|
||
|
||
|
||
259/417 01 Dec 89 02:33:02
|
||
From: MacLeod
|
||
To: All
|
||
Subj: (none)
|
||
Attr:
|
||
------------------------------------------------
|
||
From: drivax!macleod@amdahl.uts.amdahl.com (MacLeod)
|
||
Date: 30 Nov 89 07:47:08 GMT
|
||
Message-ID: <1521@taos.AlphaCDC.COM>
|
||
Newsgroups: info.paranet
|
||
|
||
|
||
Dear Friends,
|
||
|
||
I saw this article in the sci.space USENET newsgroup.
|
||
|
||
I think it's some straightfaced bs put up to parody the Area 51 article,
|
||
but I could be wrong. The article had a strange-looking path line, and it
|
||
seemed to have been gateed from the Internet.
|
||
|
||
Article 15143 of sci.space:
|
||
Path:
|
||
drivax!amdahl!apple!brutus.cs.uiuc.edu!wuarchive!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!ucsd
|
||
!ucbvax!FNAL.BITNET!HIGGINS
|
||
From: HIGGINS@FNAL.BITNET (W.T. Higgins)
|
||
Newsgroups: sci.space
|
||
Subject: Re: Antimatter Drives and Area 51
|
||
Message-ID: <Added.gZQeYQi00UkT4DoU9i@andrew.cmu.edu>
|
||
Date: 28 Nov 89 15:47:00 GMT
|
||
Sender: daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU
|
||
Organization: The Internet
|
||
Lines: 61
|
||
|
||
Michael Sloan MacLeod posted a discussion about:
|
||
|
||
+Robert Lazar, formerly employed by the government at the mysterious
|
||
+Area 51, says that the US government has 500 pounds of element 115,
|
||
+which somehow produces antimatter when irradiated.
|
||
|
||
Lazar is pulling the wool over somebody's eyes. There were less than 300 pounds
|
||
of element 115, and probably less now. Samples were tested in various
|
||
university and government labs, including mine. Yes, it does give off
|
||
antimatter when bombarded with the proper radiation. If you hit it with
|
||
negative muons, 115 (I'm talking about 287, the most abundant isotope, here.
|
||
Inconvenient not having a name for the element, but there never was general
|
||
agreement on it.) transitions to an excited state that decays into a positron,
|
||
a nucleus of 114, and an antideuteron (bound state of an antiproton and an
|
||
antineutron). The 114 is unstable, and in a few milliseconds it gives off
|
||
another antideuteron and a pair of positrons. And so forth, down the chart of
|
||
the nuclides. Every once in a while a decay in this chain will throw off a
|
||
neutron, just to keep things balanced. This had everybody excited for a while.
|
||
You might remember the big *Popular Mechanics* article about it.
|
||
|
||
Unfortunately, it turned out to be a bust. We showered muons on our 115 sample
|
||
rods for weeks on end. The decay chain ends, after a rather short time, at
|
||
106Pd. And Pd has a tremendous affinity for hydrogen, and anti-hydrogen. We
|
||
had
|
||
made a bunch of antimatter, but we couldn't get it out. The deuterons were
|
||
stuck
|
||
within the Pd lattice. All we could collect were a few deuterons coming off
|
||
atoms on the surface, and positrons, which we can get anywhere. And instead of
|
||
an exotic heavy element, we were left with an inert lump of a metal anybody can
|
||
buy on the commodities market. Remember the joke about the alchemist who could
|
||
turn gold into lead?
|
||
|
||
Having established that it wasn't a miracle energy source, most labs pretty
|
||
much
|
||
lost interest. At mine, we took the experiment apart and went on to more
|
||
interesting work. The sample rods were lying around the lab for a while,
|
||
though, come to think of it, I haven't seen them in a couple of years. I
|
||
suppose somebody scrounged them for another experiment.
|
||
|
||
+This fuel is used to drive waveguide-type gravity amplifiers which
|
||
+are the FTL drive components of nine alien spacecraft
|
||
|
||
Eight. One crashed during tests in August 1981. Three of the remaining
|
||
eight have now been dismantled.
|
||
|
||
+stored in hangars
|
||
+out at Area 51 (the supersecret testing grounds also known as "Dreamland"
|
||
+in the middle of the Nellis AFB bombing range about 65 miles northeast of
|
||
+Las Vegas).
|
||
|
||
Not *too* supersecret. See the book *Dreamland: A New Age of Flight Testing*,
|
||
by Richard Adams Locke, Aero Books, 1985. A lot of nice photos of the place.
|
||
|
||
+From his brief description of how the drives operate, they
|
||
+seem to create local black-hole strength gravity gradients which slow down
|
||
+time and cause a space-fold quickly traversible by the spacecraft.
|
||
|
||
Get real. The correct spelling is "traversable."
|
||
|
||
Bill Higgins
|
||
+------------------------------------------------+
|
||
| These opinions are not shared by my employer, |
|
||
| or perhaps by anybody else. |
|
||
+------------------------------------------------+
|
||
|
||
Michael Sloan MacLeod
|
||
|
||
--- ConfMail V4.00
|
||
* Origin: Paranet - The world's most important computer network (1:30163/150)
|
||
SEEN-BY: 19/19 101/667 104/422 428 114/37 115/876 120/80 132/113
|
||
SEEN-BY: 133/107 138/111 140/32 141/790 147/66 231/40 252/18
|
||
SEEN-BY: 265/12 268/102 283/630 304/1 3 363/17 371/10 382/33
|
||
SEEN-BY: 1063/304 3607/20 30163/3 22 100 150 401
|
||
|
||
|
||
272/417 02 Dec 89 22:22:00
|
||
From: Clark Matthews
|
||
To: Usenet News
|
||
Subj: Re: Lazar And His Amazing Saucers
|
||
Attr:
|
||
------------------------------------------------
|
||
> 3) After reading on the subject, I am inclined to believe
|
||
> that the spiritual/supernatural/extradimensional aspect is
|
||
> the most significant. I could go into this, but let me
|
||
> just say that I too have been reading Dimensions, and the
|
||
> ideas presented there make more sense than anything else I
|
||
> have seen on the subject. This story does not fit the scenario.
|
||
> Instead it fits into a neat materialistic mold which would
|
||
> allow the military to control the phenomena by purely
|
||
> physical means. This does not mean it is necessarily
|
||
> bogus, it just makes me suspicious. It is too neat; too easy
|
||
> and pat.
|
||
|
||
|
||
Hi Steve. Well, like you I have been quite taken with Dr. Vallee's hypothesis
|
||
in _Dimensions_. But let's not get carried away here...
|
||
|
||
A few days back, pre-Crash (Alpha's hard disk, not the markets) I wrote a
|
||
semi-tongue-in-cheek riposte to someone about how unimportant it is who or what
|
||
builds and operates the UFOs we see, hear of, and investigate. Whether they are
|
||
built & operated by elves, pixies, leprechauns, Titans, Nordics or whatever is
|
||
not the point.
|
||
|
||
The point (to my mind, anyway) is that they print on radar, leave leave dents
|
||
in the ground when they land, occasionally scorch things and let people get
|
||
close enough to touch them -- even get inside. They are material things.
|
||
Whether they come from Zeta II, a parallel universe or Middle Earth, they are
|
||
physical objects.
|
||
|
||
Even though these devices and their makers/masters may seem to us as
|
||
present-day astronauts must appear to the most primitive Bushmen, I really
|
||
don't allow myself to doubt their physical existence or impute anything
|
||
supernatural or religious to them. I do not think Dr. Vallee does either -- as
|
||
least as far as I read his book.
|
||
|
||
It may be that the U.S. has some of these things somewhere and has discovered
|
||
that they are as real -- yet ephemeral -- as a leprechaun's pot 'o gold. I.e.:
|
||
They've got them, but they can't DO anything with them. Nevertheless they
|
||
could exist. And Lazar may be telling the truth.
|
||
|
||
If your doubts center around Lazar's still being alive -- in other words, why
|
||
was he allowed to "leak & live". Well, people like Lazar are double-edged
|
||
swords. Nothing gets public attention faster than an untimely death.
|
||
Especially if it's the death of someone who's been telling a story. It looks
|
||
like Cooper's theories (which coincide with Lazar's revalations) may stem from
|
||
Lazar himself. So if Lazar is authentic -- if his references check -- then the
|
||
Cooper sideshow may be just that. A sideshow, and not the main event.
|
||
|
||
Anyway, until Lazar is discredited -- or discredits himself -- I'm definitely
|
||
prepared to stay with this one.
|
||
|
||
Best,
|
||
Clark
|
||
|
||
--- QuickBBS v2.04
|
||
* Origin: -=<ParaNet Alpha(sm)>=- Denver, CO (303)232-6115 (1:104/422)
|
||
SEEN-BY: 19/19 101/667 104/422 428 114/37 115/876 120/80 132/113
|
||
SEEN-BY: 133/107 138/111 140/32 141/790 147/66 231/40 252/18
|
||
SEEN-BY: 265/12 268/102 283/630 304/1 3 363/17 371/10 382/33
|
||
SEEN-BY: 1063/304 3607/20 30163/3 22 150 401
|
||
|
||
|
||
295/417 04 Dec 89 12:31:54
|
||
From: Usenet News
|
||
To: All
|
||
Subj: Lazar and his Amazing Saucers
|
||
Attr:
|
||
------------------------------------------------
|
||
Date: 29 Nov 89 20:47:15 GMT
|
||
Message-ID: <1519@taos.AlphaCDC.COM>
|
||
Newsgroups: info.paranet
|
||
|
||
Hello, paranet friends,
|
||
|
||
I have been reading the newsletter from paranet for some time now.
|
||
This is my first posting.
|
||
|
||
+I just had an interesting thought...if you had been sitting on the secret
|
||
+of S-4 and dreamland for a long while, and had instructions to release the
|
||
+information to the public only if it would not cause a crisis, what better
|
||
+time to stage-leak the real story, as most of Eastern Europe and the Soviet
|
||
+Union call off the cold war? Perhaps what Reagan was telling Gorbachev
|
||
+in their summit conferences is that we'll all hang separately if we don't
|
||
+hang together.
|
||
+
|
||
+More paranoia from,
|
||
+
|
||
+Michael Sloan MacLeod (amdahl!drivax!macleod)
|
||
|
||
Regarding Lazar, I just wonder about the fact that we are on the eve
|
||
of a summit of great significance to the entire world. As much as
|
||
we would all like to believe this intriguing tale (since so many
|
||
questions would be answered), I have to think that our government
|
||
has a powerful motivation at the moment for promoting this kind of
|
||
idea.
|
||
|
||
Given the credulity of Soviets on this subject, how likely is it
|
||
that the Soviet intelligence community is going crazy right now
|
||
trying to verify this story before the summit? Is this all
|
||
designed to throw Gorbachev off balance?
|
||
|
||
If our government tried to announce such a thing (supposing it is
|
||
false) they would be innundated with requests for demonstrations
|
||
and explanations, which would ruin the ruse. But the region where
|
||
these events are alleged to have occurred would be under constant
|
||
scrutiny by Soviet agents, given the history of the area. The
|
||
agents assigned to the area probably observed the news programs
|
||
with great interest.
|
||
|
||
Then there is the involvement of Cooper. Readers will have to judge
|
||
for themselves the significance of this.
|
||
|
||
Here is my scenario:
|
||
Lazar works for some intelligence outfit. His background was wiped
|
||
out (ineffectively) in the hopes that the attempt to erase his
|
||
history would give credibility to his story. Others that come
|
||
forward are part of the same effort. Some are actual believers
|
||
who have been convinced by the thoroughness of the deception.
|
||
|
||
The information is released in controlled packets, perhaps some
|
||
intelligence leaks were provided directly to Soviet agents to
|
||
prepare them to be receptive when the television program came on.
|
||
It all is building up so that the climax of the scam occurs just
|
||
before the summit. The result is that Gorbachev is off balance
|
||
and Bush has the advantage.
|
||
|
||
|
||
I think this is much more likely than the possibility that what
|
||
Lazar says is true, for these reasons:
|
||
|
||
1) If this project were so top secret as Lazar says, he would
|
||
never have appeared on that program. Lazar said they knew
|
||
he was going to leak in advance. If that were true he
|
||
would have been dead. They would not wait until now to
|
||
take sniper shots at him, and if they did, they wouldn't
|
||
miss.
|
||
|
||
2) Bill Cooper has discredited himself, and he appears to be
|
||
involved.
|
||
|
||
3) After reading on the subject, I am inclined to believe that
|
||
the spiritual/supernatural/extradimensional aspect is the
|
||
most significant. I could go into this, but let me just
|
||
say that I too have been reading Dimensions, and the ideas
|
||
presented there make more sense than anything else I have seen
|
||
on the subject. This story does not fit the scenario.
|
||
Instead it fits into a neat materialistic mold which would
|
||
allow the military to control the phenomena by purely
|
||
physical means. This does not mean it is necessarily bogus,
|
||
it just makes me suspicious. It is too neat; too easy and pat.
|
||
|
||
4) The gov't has a history of "leaking" bogus UFO stories.
|
||
|
||
5) They are motivated to try to maintain the upper hand by the
|
||
significance of this summit, in light of political developments.
|
||
This whole thing may have been generated directly in response
|
||
to developments in Eastern Europe.
|
||
|
||
6) The whole thing may be relatively unimportant to our intelligence
|
||
community - just another little game to try to keep the other
|
||
guys confused, and good practice at generating disinformation.
|
||
|
||
|
||
Sorry, it's just too bizarre to believe without tons of corroboration
|
||
from many independent sources.
|
||
|
||
Cheers,
|
||
--Steve
|
||
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
||
{uunet,sun}!convex!swarren; swarren@convex.COM
|
||
|
||
--- ConfMail V4.00
|
||
* Origin: Paranet - The world's most important computer network (1:30163/150)
|
||
SEEN-BY: 19/19 101/667 104/422 428 114/37 115/876 120/80 132/113
|
||
SEEN-BY: 133/107 138/111 140/32 141/790 147/66 231/40 252/18
|
||
SEEN-BY: 265/12 268/102 283/630 304/1 3 363/17 371/10 382/33
|
||
SEEN-BY: 1063/304 3607/20 30163/3 22 100 150 401
|
||
|
||
369/417 11 Dec 89 18:47:49
|
||
From: infopara@scicom.alphacdc.com
|
||
To: All
|
||
Subj: Info-Paranet #94
|
||
Attr:
|
||
------------------------------------------------
|
||
From: infopara@scicom.alphacdc.com
|
||
Date: 11 Dec 89 07:28:28 GMT
|
||
Message-ID: <2359@scicom.AlphaCDC.COM>
|
||
Newsgroups: info.paranet
|
||
|
||
From: isis!uunet!sparta!sun!esanborn (Ed Sanborn)
|
||
|
||
|
||
Mike C.,
|
||
|
||
I seemed to have missed 'Info-Paranet #94'. If you could please send an
|
||
email of this I'd appreciate it. Looking forward to the Video-tapes of
|
||
Lazar happenings. Please feel free to fill the tapes with misc. at end.
|
||
|
||
Also, what's this business of missing coverage of these broadcasts?
|
||
Maybe this should be directed at Robert Klinn but it would be a shame if we
|
||
and quite possibly a tragedy if we aren't able to monitor the complete
|
||
broadcasts. What is the price status if someone wanted to get copies of the
|
||
broadcasts from the TV stations?
|
||
|
||
Thanks,
|
||
|
||
Ed Sanborn
|
||
uunet!sparta!esanborn
|
||
w: (508) 937-1600
|
||
h: (508) 453-5609
|
||
|
||
--- ConfMail V4.00
|
||
* Origin: Paranet - The world's most important computer network (1:30163/150)
|
||
SEEN-BY: 19/19 101/667 104/422 428 114/37 115/876 120/80 132/113
|
||
SEEN-BY: 133/107 138/111 140/32 141/790 147/66 231/40 252/18
|
||
SEEN-BY: 265/12 268/102 283/630 304/1 3 363/17 371/10 382/33
|
||
SEEN-BY: 1063/304 3607/20 30163/3 22 100 150 401
|
||
|
||
|
||
394/417 14 Dec 89 19:14:53
|
||
From: infopara@scicom.alphacdc.com
|
||
To: All
|
||
Subj: Lazar/115
|
||
Attr:
|
||
------------------------------------------------
|
||
From: infopara@scicom.alphacdc.com
|
||
Date: 14 Dec 89 16:41:19 GMT
|
||
Message-ID: <2399@scicom.AlphaCDC.COM>
|
||
Newsgroups: info.paranet
|
||
|
||
From: chalmers@violet.berkeley.edu (John H. Chalmers Jr.)
|
||
|
||
Is there any independent confirmation that a nuclear explosion occurred
|
||
in the atmosphere in 1986 as Lazar claims? The signature of such a blast
|
||
if due to 115 would be completly different from a fission or fusion
|
||
explosion. there would be no fission products from an antimatter explosion
|
||
an dprobably much less induced radioactivity. Is athere any data on this
|
||
supposed event in Nevada. Try the anti-nuke or environmetal groups.
|
||
--John
|
||
|
||
--- ConfMail V4.00
|
||
* Origin: Paranet(sm) - The world's most important computer network (1:30163/1
|
||
SEEN-BY: 19/19 104/422 428 114/37 115/876 120/80 132/113 133/107
|
||
SEEN-BY: 138/111 140/32 141/790 147/66 231/40 252/18 265/12
|
||
SEEN-BY: 268/102 283/630 304/1 3 363/17 371/10 382/33 1063/304
|
||
SEEN-BY: 3607/20 30163/3 22 100 150 401
|
||
|
||
|
||
404/417 15 Dec 89 22:55:00
|
||
From: Michael Corbin
|
||
To: Infopara@scicom.alphacdc.com
|
||
Subj: Lazar/115
|
||
Attr:
|
||
------------------------------------------------
|
||
> Is there any independent confirmation that a nuclear
|
||
> explosion occurred
|
||
> in the atmosphere in 1986 as Lazar claims? The signature of
|
||
> such a blast
|
||
> if due to 115 would be completly different from a fission
|
||
> or fusion
|
||
> explosion. there would be no fission products from an
|
||
> antimatter explosion
|
||
> an dprobably much less induced radioactivity. Is athere any
|
||
> data on this
|
||
> supposed event in Nevada. Try the anti-nuke or environmetal
|
||
> groups.
|
||
|
||
Very good point. This and others aspects are currently being investigated in
|
||
the Nevada region. Most of the aspects of the historocity of the Air Force's
|
||
acquisition of 90,000 acres is correct, Lazar seems to rely heavily upon these
|
||
types of activities as a means to support his claims. However, this does not
|
||
mean that they are even inter-related to one another or to his experience. I
|
||
found the land grab inception to Lazar's story very interesting. The way that
|
||
it was presented to the television public made it sound as though it was very
|
||
mysterious, however, the Air Force did not say that their authority to do the
|
||
act of acquiring the land was higher than the United States, but only higher
|
||
than the Air Force. Surely, other departments of the government are at a
|
||
higher level than the Air Force, and with this in mind plus the fact that
|
||
Dreamland has been known to be super-secret for over forty years does not
|
||
support Lazar's claims. If there was an unscheduled nuclear test in 1987, this
|
||
may be suspect. I am very interested in that test and whether it was authentic
|
||
and if there was anything unusual registered by anyone monitoring the
|
||
atmosphere.
|
||
|
||
Mike
|
||
|
||
--- FD 2.00
|
||
* Origin: ParaNet Administration =->Voice 303-232-8303<-= (1:104/428)
|
||
SEEN-BY: 19/19 104/422 428 114/37 115/876 120/80 132/113 133/107
|
||
SEEN-BY: 138/111 140/32 141/790 147/66 231/40 252/18 265/12
|
||
SEEN-BY: 268/102 283/630 304/1 3 363/17 371/10 382/33 1063/304
|
||
SEEN-BY: 3607/20 30163/3 22 150 401
|
||
|
||
|
||
326/417 07 Dec 89 14:43:00
|
||
From: Robert Klinn
|
||
To: All
|
||
Subj: UFOs: The Best Evidence Altered?
|
||
Attr:
|
||
------------------------------------------------
|
||
<...Continued from previous message>
|
||
|
||
[CUT:]
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
I don't think that you can ever synthesize it. The amount
|
||
of -- You essentially have to assemble it by bombarding it with
|
||
protons; if atom by atom, it would take an infinite amount of power
|
||
and an infinite amount of time. The substance has to come from a
|
||
place where super-heavy elements could have been produced naturally.
|
||
|
||
[CUT:]
|
||
Knapp:
|
||
And what sort of place is that?
|
||
|
||
[CUT:]
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Next to a much larger sun where there would be greater mass.
|
||
Maybe a binary star system -- a super-nova -- somewhere where there is
|
||
just a bigger release of energy to synthesize these things naturally.
|
||
It has to be a naturally occurring element.
|
||
|
||
[CUT:]
|
||
Knapp:
|
||
115 is the fuel for the anti-matter reactors, he says. By bombarding
|
||
115, anti-matter is produced. A kilo of anti-matter could produce the
|
||
energy equivalent of 46 ten-megaton hydrogen bombs, and comparing the
|
||
energy potential of anti-matter to, say, the Hoover Dam, would be
|
||
like comparing planets to grains of sand. 115 could also make one
|
||
heck of a bomb.
|
||
|
||
[CUT:]
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
We're talking about hundreds and hundreds of megatons off a small
|
||
piece of it. It sounds incredible, but total conversion of matter
|
||
to energy would release that amount of power. And it isn't that
|
||
difficult to take -- get the energy out of it. So it's not something
|
||
you'd ever want to fall into anyone's hands.
|
||
|
||
[CUT:]
|
||
Knapp:
|
||
The dangers associated with 115 and anti-matter may be the reason
|
||
Lazar was hired to work at S-4. There was an accident, he says,
|
||
back in April 1987, an accident that was passed off as an unannounced
|
||
nuclear test.
|
||
|
||
[CUT:]
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Some people got killed. I was told flat out I was one of the people
|
||
that were to replace these guys.
|
||
|
||
[CUT:]
|
||
Knapp:
|
||
Is this why the government might be keeping the whole matter a
|
||
secret? Because of the military potential of alien technology?
|
||
Lazar says he believes the Soviet Union was once part of our
|
||
research on the flying disks, but that the U.S. kicked the Soviets
|
||
out after making some sort of discovery. He also believes the
|
||
program at S-4 is operated with funds allocated to Star Wars research,
|
||
but says he can't prove it. Some UFO researchers suspect the
|
||
government is test flying alien craft so that it can one day master
|
||
the technology and claim it was made in the good old U.S.A., thus
|
||
obscuring the possibility of alien visitations.
|
||
|
||
[CUT:]
|
||
Stanton T. Friedman:
|
||
I think they have the duty to inform us. At least to the bare bones
|
||
of what's going on. I don't want technological stuff put out on the
|
||
table. I mean, I worked on classified projects for 15 years, and
|
||
I don't think we need another weapon's delivery system. But I
|
||
think the government does have the responsibility to release information
|
||
that, indeed, the planet is being visited. Probably it should be done
|
||
in conjunction with the Soviets.
|
||
|
||
[CUT:]
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
I don't think that it will get to that level. They're not going to have
|
||
a fleet of them and fly them around, and I don't think you need to do
|
||
that. If you're looking at them from a weapons point of view, you're
|
||
looking at an incredibly powerful device. You only need one that
|
||
operates. You don't ever need to come public with it. You may want to
|
||
learn more about it should it ever break which is -- might be -- what
|
||
they're doing.
|
||
|
||
[CUT:]
|
||
Knapp:
|
||
They've got one --
|
||
|
||
[CUT:]
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
-- Oh, they've got a few. Yeah.
|
||
|
||
[CUT:]
|
||
Lazar is the first to admit that his story is tough to swallow.
|
||
He submitted to polygraph exams, has opened up sensitive parts of
|
||
his personal life, and fully expects to be ridiculed or perhaps
|
||
punished for his revelations.
|
||
[END CUT.]
|
||
_______
|
||
|
||
[The hypnotherapy discussion of Segment 7 further below has been
|
||
totally replaced by the following short summary included in the
|
||
broadcast of 11/25/89. Note that reference to a mind-control technique
|
||
by Lazar's U.S. government employers has been excised.]
|
||
|
||
Knapp:
|
||
Lazar wanted to recall further details from reports he says he read
|
||
at S-4, so he went to Layne Keck, a licensed and experienced
|
||
hypnotherapist. Keck makes no exaggerated claims about the powers
|
||
of hypnosis, but he did help dredge up some specifics from the
|
||
reports. He is confident about that, that Lazar is not making this up.
|
||
|
||
Keck:
|
||
His subconscious mind believes TOTALLY all of these things.
|
||
|
||
<Continued next message...>
|
||
|
||
--- FD 2.00
|
||
* Origin: ParaNet Administration =->Voice 303-232-8303<-= (1:104/428)
|
||
SEEN-BY: 19/19 101/667 104/422 428 114/37 115/876 120/80 132/113
|
||
SEEN-BY: 133/107 138/111 140/32 141/790 147/66 231/40 252/18
|
||
SEEN-BY: 265/12 268/102 283/630 304/1 3 363/17 371/10 382/33
|
||
SEEN-BY: 1063/304 3607/20 30163/3 22 150 401
|
||
|
||
|
||
327/417 07 Dec 89 17:13:00
|
||
From: Robert Klinn
|
||
To: All
|
||
Subj: UFOs: The Best Evidence Altered?
|
||
Attr:
|
||
------------------------------------------------
|
||
(C) 1989 ParaNet Information Service
|
||
|
||
"UFO's: The Best Evidence": The Altered Version
|
||
|
||
The two versions of "UFO's: The Best Evidence":
|
||
|
||
Version One:
|
||
Nine parts (10-15 minutes each):
|
||
November 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 13, 14, 15, and 16, 1989
|
||
|
||
Version Two:
|
||
November 25, 1989
|
||
|
||
On-air, producer/newsman George Knapp had said the 11/25/89, 8:00 p.m. to
|
||
10:00 p.m., broadcast of "UFO's: The Best Evidence" (KLAS-TV, Channel 8
|
||
in Las Vegas), would include the substance as well as UPDATES of the
|
||
material broadcast earlier as the nine-part series with the same title.
|
||
|
||
At the end of the ninth segment of the series, he also had said his
|
||
investigation -- pursuant to physicist Robert Lazar's and others' claims
|
||
about recovered alien vehicles at Area 51 or S-4 inside the U.S.
|
||
Government's Nevada Test Site -- "will continue."
|
||
|
||
And earlier in the series, Knapp had said this was "only the beginning,"
|
||
that the investigation is "by no means over."
|
||
|
||
On 11/21/89, 10:00 p.m. until 1:00 a.m., speaking on KVEG 840-AM Radio's
|
||
Billy Goodman Happening, Lazar himself had said he was informed that
|
||
Knapp's upcoming 11/25/89, two-hour, KLAS-TV report would contain "much
|
||
more information" than Knapp's earlier, nine-part broadcasts.
|
||
|
||
But Knapp later told me that although he is personally interested in more
|
||
UFO material about Area 51, there is no more budget at his station to
|
||
pursue it.
|
||
|
||
Significant previously-broadcast segments are missing from the 11/25/89
|
||
version. Nothing new -- no promised "updates" -- has been added. On the
|
||
contrary, highly pertinent descriptions by Lazar, hypnotherapist Layne
|
||
Keck, and Knapp himself have been cut -- in perhaps the most interesting
|
||
and revealing places.
|
||
|
||
Knapp -- apparently sincere and hardworking -- now gives "time constraints"
|
||
imposed by the number of commercials that had to be inserted into the
|
||
11/25/89 version as the reason for the cuts and the lack of additional
|
||
material.
|
||
|
||
He justifies the almost entire elimination of Segment Seven
|
||
(originally broadcast 11/14/89) -- including Lazar's explanations of
|
||
the alien element 115, time warp and its relation to gravity waves,
|
||
the production of gravity waves, and the military potential of the
|
||
alien technology -- by dismissing that material as merely "details."
|
||
|
||
Surprisingly, Knapp graciously said, "I apologize."
|
||
|
||
Military potential -- not only of the recovered alien craft but
|
||
perhaps of more earthly forces -- may have been revealed by other cuts,
|
||
including the stunning suspicion by Lazar that "his government employers
|
||
used some sort of mind control technique to prevent him from disclosing
|
||
too much about S-4" and the discussion by hypnotherapist Keck of
|
||
Lazar's possibly being subjected to tremendous fear, threats, and
|
||
chemicals.
|
||
|
||
And what might be the military implications of this portion of
|
||
Lazar's statement as broadcast in Segment 6 (11/13/89) but cut from
|
||
the 11/25/89 version?
|
||
|
||
"One of them looked like it was hit with some sort of a
|
||
projectile. It had a large hole in the bottom and a large hole in
|
||
the top with the metal bent out like some sort of, you know, large
|
||
caliber 4- or 5-inch projectile had gone through it."
|
||
|
||
Was the following stuff cut just to make room for commercials?
|
||
|
||
Knapp:
|
||
115 is the fuel for the anti-matter reactors, he says. By
|
||
bombarding 115, anti-matter is produced. A kilo of anti-matter
|
||
could produce the energy equivalent of 46 ten-megaton hydrogen bombs,
|
||
and comparing the energy potential of anti-matter to, say, the Hoover
|
||
Dam, would be like comparing planets to grains of sand. 115 could also
|
||
make one heck of a bomb.
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
We're talking about hundreds and hundreds of megatons off a small piece
|
||
of it. It sounds incredible, but total conversion of matter to
|
||
energy would release that amount of power. And it isn't that difficult
|
||
to take. . .get the energy out of it. So it's not something you'd ever
|
||
want to fall into anyone's hands.
|
||
|
||
Knapp:
|
||
The dangers associated with 115 and anti-matter may be the reason Lazar
|
||
was hired to work at S-4. There was an accident, he says, back in
|
||
April 1987. An accident that was passed off as an unannounced nuclear
|
||
test.
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Some people got killed. I was told flat out I was one of the people
|
||
that were to replace these guys.
|
||
|
||
<Continued next message...>
|
||
|
||
--- FD 2.00
|
||
* Origin: ParaNet Administration =->Voice 303-232-8303<-= (1:104/428)
|
||
SEEN-BY: 19/19 101/667 104/422 428 114/37 115/876 120/80 132/113
|
||
SEEN-BY: 133/107 138/111 140/32 141/790 147/66 231/40 252/18
|
||
SEEN-BY: 265/12 268/102 283/630 304/1 3 363/17 371/10 382/33
|
||
SEEN-BY: 1063/304 3607/20 30163/3 22 150 401
|
||
|
||
|
||
328/417 07 Dec 89 17:15:00
|
||
From: Robert Klinn
|
||
To: Robert Klinn
|
||
Subj: UFOs: The Best Evidence Altered?
|
||
Attr:
|
||
------------------------------------------------
|
||
Part 2
|
||
<...Continued from previous message>
|
||
|
||
_______
|
||
|
||
The following appeared in the original nine segments but NOT in
|
||
the 11/25/89 broadcast. To retain context, some uncut material has
|
||
been included.
|
||
|
||
Segment 5 (11/10/89):
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Well, I am telling the truth. I've tried to prove that. What's
|
||
going on up there could be the most important event in history.
|
||
You're talking about contact, physical contact and proof from another
|
||
system, another planet, another intelligence. That's got to be the
|
||
biggest event in history -- period. And, it's real and it's there.
|
||
|
||
[CUT:]
|
||
Lazar (continuing):
|
||
And I had an extremely small part in it. I'm convinced that what
|
||
I saw is absolute proof of that. There is no way that we could have
|
||
created those disks. There is no way we could have made the disks,
|
||
the power supplies, anything that goes with it.
|
||
[END CUT.]
|
||
|
||
Segment 5 (11/10/89):
|
||
|
||
[CUT:]
|
||
Lazar says he has no intention of going on any UFO lecture circuit.
|
||
He is not looking to do any additional interviews. In fact, he was not
|
||
too crazy about doing this one. He did it after certain unfavorable
|
||
things started happening in his life, and he did it because he feels
|
||
that whoever is running the show up at S-4 is perpetrating a fraud on
|
||
the American people and the scientific community.
|
||
[END CUT.]
|
||
|
||
Segment 6 (11/13/89):
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
I gave everything simple names -- the "top hat" one and, you know, the
|
||
"jello mold"; and the "sport model" operated without any hitches at all.
|
||
I mean, it looked new. If I know what a new flying saucer looks like.
|
||
|
||
[CUT:]
|
||
Lazar (continuing):
|
||
One of them looked like it was hit with some sort of a projectile.
|
||
It had a large hole in the bottom and a large hole in the top with the
|
||
metal bent out like some sort of, you know, large-caliber 4- or 5-inch
|
||
projectile had gone through it.
|
||
[END CUT.]
|
||
|
||
Segment 6 (11/13/89):
|
||
|
||
Knapp:
|
||
Bob Lazar isn't the only person to claim "inside knowledge" of the
|
||
flying disks at the test site -- he is just the only person to say
|
||
so publicly. We have communicated with several people who say they
|
||
know of the saucer program. A technician in a highly sensitive position
|
||
told us it is "common knowledge among those with high security
|
||
clearances that recovered alien disks are stored at the Nevada Test
|
||
Site." A Las Vegas professional, who once served in the military and
|
||
was stationed at the Test Site, says he saw a flying disk land
|
||
outside the boundaries of Area 51 --
|
||
|
||
[CUT:]
|
||
Knapp (continuing):
|
||
-- that it was quickly surrounded by security personnel and that he
|
||
was taken away and debriefed for several hours.
|
||
[END CUT.]
|
||
|
||
Segment 6 (11/13/89):
|
||
|
||
Knapp:
|
||
A man who once worked at Groom Lake as a technician, at our
|
||
request, wrote this letter explaining how he inadvertently walked
|
||
into the wrong hangar and saw what appeared to be a large metallic
|
||
disk under a tarp.
|
||
|
||
[CUT:]
|
||
Knapp (continuing):
|
||
It was being examined by men in lab coats.
|
||
[END CUT.]
|
||
|
||
Knapp (continuing):
|
||
And an airman who worked at Nellis at a radar installation says he
|
||
and his fellow servicemen watched over a period of five nights,
|
||
unusual objects flying over the Groom Mountains. He says the radar
|
||
images indicate the objects zoomed into range at speeds of 7,000 miles
|
||
per hour and then would stop on a dime, and that nothing we have is
|
||
capable of doing that. The airman says that when word of his sighting
|
||
got out, he was ordered to turn off his radar sensors for that area
|
||
and told to keep quiet about the matter because it did not happen.
|
||
|
||
Segment 6 (11/13/89):
|
||
|
||
[CUT:]
|
||
Knapp:
|
||
Tomorrow, more troubling allegations about the military potential
|
||
of alien technology.
|
||
[END CUT.]
|
||
|
||
<Continued in Next Message...>
|
||
|
||
--- FD 2.00
|
||
* Origin: ParaNet Administration =->Voice 303-232-8303<-= (1:104/428)
|
||
SEEN-BY: 19/19 101/667 104/422 428 114/37 115/876 120/80 132/113
|
||
SEEN-BY: 133/107 138/111 140/32 141/790 147/66 231/40 252/18
|
||
SEEN-BY: 265/12 268/102 283/630 304/1 3 363/17 371/10 382/33
|
||
SEEN-BY: 1063/304 3607/20 30163/3 22 150 401
|
||
|
||
|
||
329/417 07 Dec 89 17:17:00
|
||
From: Robert Klinn
|
||
To: Robert Klinn
|
||
Subj: UFOs: The Best Evidence Altered?
|
||
Attr:
|
||
------------------------------------------------
|
||
Part 3
|
||
<...Continued from previous Message>
|
||
========
|
||
Segment 7 (11/14/89):
|
||
(Essentially ALL of Segment 7 has been cut.)
|
||
|
||
[CUT:]
|
||
Knapp:
|
||
Just over this ridge [showing a photo of Area 51], tucked inside
|
||
the test tubes of a hidden government base, the secrets of the
|
||
universe may be unfolding. The area is designated S-4, and according
|
||
to one man who claims to have worked there, S-4 harbors scientific
|
||
achievements that would astonish our deepest thinkers. It is
|
||
technology that, if it exists, could change the world, but is allegedly
|
||
bottled up by military minds.
|
||
|
||
[CUT:]
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
It's not an overall government project. It's not something that
|
||
Congress appropriates money for. Two billion is for this, 15
|
||
billion for flying saucers, eight billion for Star Wars: it doesn't
|
||
go like that. I don't believe that they have any knowledge of it at
|
||
all.
|
||
|
||
[CUT:]
|
||
Knapp:
|
||
The technology that Bob Lazar says he saw extends far beyond flying
|
||
saucers. An anti-matter reactor allows the spaceships to produce their
|
||
own gravitational fields, he says. Such a technology, if real, would
|
||
answer UFO skeptics who argue that aliens could never visit Earth
|
||
because the distances between worlds are too great, even at the speed
|
||
of light.
|
||
|
||
[CUT:]
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Gravity distorts time and space. Just like if you had a water bed and
|
||
put a bowling ball in the middle. It warps it down like that --
|
||
that's exactly what happens to space. Imagining that you were in a
|
||
spacecraft that could exert a tremendous gravitational field by itself,
|
||
you could sit on any particular place and turn on the gravity generator
|
||
and actually warp space and time, and fold it. By shutting that off,
|
||
you'd click back and you'd be a tremendous distance from where you
|
||
were, but time would not have even moved because you essentially shut
|
||
it off. I mean it is so far fetched, people -- it's difficult for
|
||
people to grasp, and as stubborn as the scientific community is,
|
||
they'll never buy it. But this is, in fact, that's just what happens.
|
||
|
||
[CUT:]
|
||
Knapp:
|
||
Actually, Lazar's explanation is very close to mainstream scientific
|
||
thought and can be traced directly to Einstein. The difference is,
|
||
scientists regard it as theory only. There is much that science still
|
||
doesn't know.
|
||
|
||
[CUT:]
|
||
Dale Etheridge (Scientist):
|
||
There are people who say that our main problem with that is we don't
|
||
know what gravity is. It's this magical force that acts at a
|
||
distance. We can describe how it behaves -- that's what the law
|
||
of gravity is -- it's just a description of how it behaves. But
|
||
it says nothing about what gravity really is.
|
||
|
||
[CUT:]
|
||
Knapp:
|
||
We'll use Etheridge as our barometer of scientific thought. He
|
||
says we cannot produce gravity, that there's no such thing as a
|
||
working anti-matter reactor, and that we have yet to figure out a way
|
||
to get around the speed of light. He also concedes, though, such
|
||
things are possible.
|
||
|
||
[CUT:]
|
||
Etheridge:
|
||
Yeah. And really we don't know what's possible, as there could be
|
||
other civilizations out there -- several hundred years or so, a
|
||
thousand years, even a million years ahead of us -- that have found
|
||
a way to circumvent this. We have no way of knowing for sure.
|
||
|
||
[CUT:]
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Well, the thing is, when you harness gravity, you harness everything.
|
||
It's the missing piece in physics right now. We really know very
|
||
little about gravity.
|
||
|
||
[CUT:]
|
||
Knapp:
|
||
At least that's the way it used to be. Lazar says the technology to
|
||
harness gravity not only exists but is being tested at S-4. And if
|
||
such technology is beyond human capabilities, it must have come from
|
||
someplace else. It's more than conjecture, he says, because he also
|
||
saw an element that cannot be found on the periodic chart. The element,
|
||
called 115, can be stored in lead casings much like this one
|
||
[showing a lead circular container]. Lazar says the government has
|
||
500 pounds of it, and it cannot be made on Earth.
|
||
|
||
[CUT:]
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
It would be almost impossible; well, it is impossible to synthesize
|
||
an element that heavy here on Earth.
|
||
|
||
[CUT:]
|
||
Knapp:
|
||
At least right now.
|
||
|
||
<Continued Next message...>
|
||
|
||
--- FD 2.00
|
||
* Origin: ParaNet Administration =->Voice 303-232-8303<-= (1:104/428)
|
||
SEEN-BY: 19/19 101/667 104/422 428 114/37 115/876 120/80 132/113
|
||
SEEN-BY: 133/107 138/111 140/32 141/790 147/66 231/40 252/18
|
||
SEEN-BY: 265/12 268/102 283/630 304/1 3 363/17 371/10 382/33
|
||
SEEN-BY: 1063/304 3607/20 30163/3 22 150 401
|
||
|
||
|
||
330/417 07 Dec 89 17:18:00
|
||
From: Robert Klinn
|
||
To: Robert Klinn
|
||
Subj: UFOs: The Best Evidence Altered?
|
||
Attr:
|
||
------------------------------------------------
|
||
Part 4
|
||
<...Continued from previous message>
|
||
[CUT:]
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
I don't think that you can ever synthesize it. The amount
|
||
of -- You essentially have to assemble it by bombarding it with
|
||
protons; if atom by atom, it would take an infinite amount of power
|
||
and an infinite amount of time. The substance has to come from a
|
||
place where super-heavy elements could have been produced naturally.
|
||
|
||
[CUT:]
|
||
Knapp:
|
||
And what sort of place is that?
|
||
|
||
[CUT:]
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Next to a much larger sun where there would be greater mass.
|
||
Maybe a binary star system -- a super-nova -- somewhere where there is
|
||
just a bigger release of energy to synthesize these things naturally.
|
||
It has to be a naturally occurring element.
|
||
|
||
[CUT:]
|
||
Knapp:
|
||
115 is the fuel for the anti-matter reactors, he says. By bombarding
|
||
115, anti-matter is produced. A kilo of anti-matter could produce the
|
||
energy equivalent of 46 ten-megaton hydrogen bombs, and comparing the
|
||
energy potential of anti-matter to, say, the Hoover Dam, would be
|
||
like comparing planets to grains of sand. 115 could also make one
|
||
heck of a bomb.
|
||
|
||
[CUT:]
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
We're talking about hundreds and hundreds of megatons off a small
|
||
piece of it. It sounds incredible, but total conversion of matter
|
||
to energy would release that amount of power. And it isn't that
|
||
difficult to take -- get the energy out of it. So it's not something
|
||
you'd ever want to fall into anyone's hands.
|
||
|
||
[CUT:]
|
||
Knapp:
|
||
The dangers associated with 115 and anti-matter may be the reason
|
||
Lazar was hired to work at S-4. There was an accident, he says,
|
||
back in April 1987, an accident that was passed off as an unannounced
|
||
nuclear test.
|
||
|
||
[CUT:]
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Some people got killed. I was told flat out I was one of the people
|
||
that were to replace these guys.
|
||
|
||
[CUT:]
|
||
Knapp:
|
||
Is this why the government might be keeping the whole matter a
|
||
secret? Because of the military potential of alien technology?
|
||
Lazar says he believes the Soviet Union was once part of our
|
||
research on the flying disks, but that the U.S. kicked the Soviets
|
||
out after making some sort of discovery. He also believes the
|
||
program at S-4 is operated with funds allocated to Star Wars research,
|
||
but says he can't prove it. Some UFO researchers suspect the
|
||
government is test flying alien craft so that it can one day master
|
||
the technology and claim it was made in the good old U.S.A., thus
|
||
obscuring the possibility of alien visitations.
|
||
|
||
[CUT:]
|
||
Stanton T. Friedman:
|
||
I think they have the duty to inform us. At least to the bare bones
|
||
of what's going on. I don't want technological stuff put out on the
|
||
table. I mean, I worked on classified projects for 15 years, and
|
||
I don't think we need another weapon's delivery system. But I
|
||
think the government does have the responsibility to release information
|
||
that, indeed, the planet is being visited. Probably it should be done
|
||
in conjunction with the Soviets.
|
||
|
||
[CUT:]
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
I don't think that it will get to that level. They're not going to have
|
||
a fleet of them and fly them around, and I don't think you need to do
|
||
that. If you're looking at them from a weapons point of view, you're
|
||
looking at an incredibly powerful device. You only need one that
|
||
operates. You don't ever need to come public with it. You may want to
|
||
learn more about it should it ever break which is -- might be -- what
|
||
they're doing.
|
||
|
||
[CUT:]
|
||
Knapp:
|
||
They've got one --
|
||
|
||
[CUT:]
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
-- Oh, they've got a few. Yeah.
|
||
|
||
[CUT:]
|
||
Lazar is the first to admit that his story is tough to swallow.
|
||
He submitted to polygraph exams, has opened up sensitive parts of
|
||
his personal life, and fully expects to be ridiculed or perhaps
|
||
punished for his revelations.
|
||
[END CUT.]
|
||
_______
|
||
|
||
[The hypnotherapy discussion of Segment 7 further below has been
|
||
totally replaced by the following short summary included in the
|
||
broadcast of 11/25/89. Note that reference to a mind-control technique
|
||
by Lazar's U.S. government employers has been excised.]
|
||
|
||
Knapp:
|
||
Lazar wanted to recall further details from reports he says he read
|
||
at S-4, so he went to Layne Keck, a licensed and experienced
|
||
hypnotherapist. Keck makes no exaggerated claims about the powers
|
||
of hypnosis, but he did help dredge up some specifics from the
|
||
reports. He is confident about that, that Lazar is not making this up.
|
||
|
||
Keck:
|
||
His subconscious mind believes TOTALLY all of these things.
|
||
|
||
<Continued next message....>
|
||
|
||
--- FD 2.00
|
||
* Origin: ParaNet Administration =->Voice 303-232-8303<-= (1:104/428)
|
||
SEEN-BY: 19/19 101/667 104/422 428 114/37 115/876 120/80 132/113
|
||
SEEN-BY: 133/107 138/111 140/32 141/790 147/66 231/40 252/18
|
||
SEEN-BY: 265/12 268/102 283/630 304/1 3 363/17 371/10 382/33
|
||
SEEN-BY: 1063/304 3607/20 30163/3 22 150 401
|
||
|
||
|
||
331/417 07 Dec 89 17:19:00
|
||
From: Robert Klinn
|
||
To: Robert Klinn
|
||
Subj: UFOs: The Best Evidence Altered?
|
||
Attr:
|
||
------------------------------------------------
|
||
Part 5 Conclusion
|
||
<....Continued from previous message>
|
||
===================
|
||
|
||
[CUT:]
|
||
Knapp:
|
||
His desire to explain what really happened at S-4 took him to Layne
|
||
Keck, a licensed, experienced hypnotherapist who quietly and
|
||
privately tried to help Lazar remember details of the many briefing
|
||
papers he says he read.
|
||
|
||
[CUT:]
|
||
Keck:
|
||
I have no clue as to what we were getting to, and he started saying
|
||
that there were pictures of what I thought was DESKS on the wall.
|
||
Well as it turned out, it was DISKS that he was referring to. And
|
||
at that moment I realized we were into something that was pretty heavy.
|
||
|
||
[CUT:]
|
||
Knapp:
|
||
Keck does not exaggerate his claims for hypnosis. He regards it
|
||
as a useful tool for uncovering some lost memories. He says
|
||
people are quite capable of lying under hypnosis but says the technique
|
||
can be of help in determining truth. What's his opinion of Lazar's
|
||
truthfulness?
|
||
|
||
[CUT:]
|
||
Keck:
|
||
It tells me that his subconscious mind believes totally all of
|
||
these things.
|
||
|
||
[CUT:]
|
||
Lazar has long suspected that his government employers used some
|
||
sort of mind-control technique to prevent him from disclosing too
|
||
much about S-4. While he says he has vivid conscious memories of
|
||
the saucers and other technology, there were other memories that even
|
||
now remained locked, which is why he sought out Keck in the first place.
|
||
Keck is convinced that someone really did mess with Lazar's head.
|
||
|
||
[CUT:]
|
||
Keck:
|
||
Also they used tremendous fear in threatening those in his environment
|
||
if he did bring this information forth. Also, it appears that maybe
|
||
there were some chemicals used.
|
||
|
||
[CUT:]
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Nah, I'm not going to change anyone's mind. That's not my intention.
|
||
I'm just relaying the experience -- the job that I went through.
|
||
It is a fantastic thing. It's a fantastic story. I can't take people
|
||
there to show them what was going on, and you know, I don't expect
|
||
anyone to believe it.
|
||
|
||
[CUT:]
|
||
Knapp:
|
||
What if he is right? What if aliens are here? How would this change
|
||
our view of the world? Our most fundamental beliefs? Religion?
|
||
We'll know more on that tomorrow.
|
||
[END CUT.]
|
||
_______
|
||
|
||
Also MISSING from the 11/25/89 version are Knapp's opinions and
|
||
comments before and after most of the nine previously broadcast segments.
|
||
|
||
His extended comments at the end of the ninth segment are particularly
|
||
bold. He says: "What we have learned" is that "the Government has
|
||
lied" and "has discredited UFO witnesses."
|
||
|
||
Knapp suggests that any future Congessional UFO inquiry must be "without
|
||
ties to the CIA" or other intelligence agencies.
|
||
|
||
Then turning from a co-anchor and looking into the camera, he seems
|
||
to speak to particular individuals:
|
||
|
||
"There are people probably watching right now. . . who know a lot
|
||
about this subject." And he asks them to call him.
|
||
|
||
Knapp ends the ninth segment by assuring his viewers that "the
|
||
investigation will continue."
|
||
|
||
--- FD 2.00
|
||
* Origin: ParaNet Administration =->Voice 303-232-8303<-= (1:104/428)
|
||
SEEN-BY: 19/19 101/667 104/422 428 114/37 115/876 120/80 132/113
|
||
SEEN-BY: 133/107 138/111 140/32 141/790 147/66 231/40 252/18
|
||
SEEN-BY: 265/12 268/102 283/630 304/1 3 363/17 371/10 382/33
|
||
SEEN-BY: 1063/304 3607/20 30163/3 22 150 401
|
||
|
||
Info-ParaNet Newsletters, Number 109
|
||
|
||
Monday, December 25th 1989
|
||
|
||
Today's Topics:
|
||
|
||
George Knapp Interview/Lazar
|
||
|
||
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
||
|
||
From: paranet!p0.f422.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin
|
||
Subject: Knapp Interview #1
|
||
Date: 24 Dec 89 05:08:00 GMT
|
||
|
||
DATE OF UPLOAD: December 23, 1989
|
||
ORIGIN OF UPLOAD: ParaNet Information Service
|
||
CONTRIBUTED BY: Chuck Harder/Special Correspondent to ParaNet
|
||
========================================================
|
||
(C) Copyright 1989 ParaNet Information Service
|
||
All Rights Reserved unless copyrighted by Author.
|
||
========================================================
|
||
|
||
INTERVIEW WITH GEORGE KNAPP OF KLAS-TV (LAS VEGAS, NEVADA) ON
|
||
NOVEMBER 17, 1989. INTERVIEWED BY CHUCK HARDER, HOST AND
|
||
MODERATOR OF 'FOR THE PEOPLE' OF THE SUN RADIO NETWORK.
|
||
|
||
CHUCK HARDER
|
||
My guest has (now) called in and I'm going to run down who he is
|
||
and where he's from for a number of reasons, some of them for his
|
||
own protection. George, are you there...
|
||
|
||
GEORGE KNAPP
|
||
Hello Chuck.
|
||
|
||
CHUCK HARDER
|
||
Please tell us, you are George Knapp, right...
|
||
|
||
GEORGE KNAPP
|
||
That's right.
|
||
|
||
CHUCK HARDER
|
||
George, what do you do for a living?
|
||
|
||
GEORGE KNAPP
|
||
I'm a journalist with KLAS-TV in Las Vegas, the CBS affiliate
|
||
here.
|
||
|
||
CHUCK HARDER
|
||
So you are a TV newsman...
|
||
|
||
GEORGE KNAPP
|
||
Right.
|
||
|
||
CHUCK HARDER
|
||
And you work for Channel 8, KLAS-TV in Las Vegas, Nevada...
|
||
|
||
GEORGE KNAPP
|
||
Right.
|
||
|
||
CHUCK HARDER
|
||
I understand that you have come upon some very interesting
|
||
information and you've done some special reports, could you tell
|
||
us about it...?
|
||
|
||
GEORGE KNAPP
|
||
Well we just finished a nine-part series -- what may be the
|
||
longest series that's ever been done on this subject dealing with
|
||
UFOs.
|
||
|
||
Our research actually started about two and a half years ago, a
|
||
fellow named John Lear, the son of the guy who invented the Lear
|
||
Jet brought some of this information to our attention. In May of
|
||
this year, Mr. Lear introduced us to a fellow who claims to have
|
||
worked at a secret base designated S-4...on a top-secret Nevada
|
||
test site...the fellow said that he worked on flying saucers,
|
||
that the technology was not from Earth, and we interviewed him
|
||
live in silhouette in May, the response was incredible...we got
|
||
response from Japan, parts of that interview aired on radio in
|
||
Europe, and six different European countries...so we decided with
|
||
this much interest we might want to take a look at the subject in
|
||
more depth.
|
||
|
||
We started doing that and the first thing we found out is that
|
||
really UFOs have not been given a fair shake by science, by
|
||
government, by religion and especially by journalism. Millions
|
||
of people have seen UFOs, millions more believe...I think the
|
||
latest Gallup poll shows about 70 percent of college-educated
|
||
Americans believe that there's something to it, but because of
|
||
the tabloid aspects...'The Girl Who Gives Birth to 52 UFO Babies'
|
||
-- kind of things in the National Enquirer, people have shied
|
||
away from it...Serious people have shied away. Scientists,
|
||
although they might be interested in searching the universe for
|
||
radio signals really don't want to look in their own back yard --
|
||
they can't get grants...people would laugh at them. Journalism -
|
||
- the coverage is generally condescending and quirky, especially
|
||
by the networks, as in the coverage of this UFO that supposedly
|
||
landed in the USSR, people making fun of it...so, we figured out
|
||
that millions of people want to know as Roy Neary, the guy in the
|
||
'Close Encounters' movie said, 'What's going on?' So we started
|
||
investigating it. The focal point of the story being this fellow
|
||
who said he worked at S-4. We broke his identity last Friday.
|
||
His name is Bob Lazar, he is a former scientist who worked at Los
|
||
Alamos National Labs, he is a physicist...we did a lot of
|
||
checking on him and found interestingly enough that his life was
|
||
disappearing around him. In other words we called Los Alamos
|
||
Labs and they said they never heard of him. We called MIT where
|
||
he says he went to school and they had never heard of him. We
|
||
called for his Birth records and they had disappeared...as if
|
||
someone was trying to make him a non-person. We did however
|
||
confirm some of the information that he had given us...we found
|
||
newspaper articles from Los Alamos indicating that he had indeed
|
||
worked there...we found an old telephone book from the lab with
|
||
his name in it, which gave him a certain amount of credibility in
|
||
our eyes. The story he tells is an incredible one. He was hired
|
||
to work at this area called S-4 on the test site, he was flown up
|
||
to a place called Groom Lake -- taken by bus with no windows to
|
||
S-4...the base is built almost to look like its part of the
|
||
desert with sand covered hanger doors, he goes inside and he
|
||
starts reading these briefing papers dealing with UFOs! Pictures
|
||
of UFOs on the walls, pictures of aliens, autopsy reports on
|
||
alien bodies...things of this nature -- he's pretty amazed. Then
|
||
he sees the discs. He says there are nine of the discs up there,
|
||
they are powered by an anti-matter reactor which produces its own
|
||
gravitational field...technology that does not exist on this
|
||
planet, and the interesting thing...he thought for a while that
|
||
perhaps it was just an advanced secret scientific project that
|
||
our government is pursuing until he looked inside one of the
|
||
discs and noticed the small furniture...all the chairs were built
|
||
like for children...and then things started coming together for
|
||
him. Are you with me Chuck?
|
||
|
||
CHUCK HARDER
|
||
I'm listening.
|
||
|
||
GEORGE KNAPP
|
||
Er, I'm not sure how much detail you want me to go in on...
|
||
|
||
CHUCK HARDER
|
||
Oh I think you ought to keep going.
|
||
|
||
GEORGE KNAPP
|
||
Well, this fellow was up there for only a few months. And it was
|
||
a rough place for him to work...the security was so hard and he
|
||
was being harassed at home, his phones being tapped...plus he's
|
||
on to what he thinks are the secrets of the universe...he starts
|
||
to tell other people about it, confide with close friends.
|
||
|
||
CHUCK HARDER
|
||
Ummmmmm.....
|
||
|
||
GEORGE KNAPP
|
||
He had the date of a couple of tests and on two consecutive
|
||
weekends he took people up into the desert outside of the
|
||
boundaries of area S-4, and they video taped the saucers...what
|
||
looks like a saucer coming over the mountains!
|
||
|
||
CHUCK HARDER
|
||
Wow...
|
||
|
||
GEORGE KNAPP
|
||
We showed that video as well...
|
||
|
||
CHUCK HARDER
|
||
Uh-huh....
|
||
|
||
GEORGE KNAPP
|
||
Five different people that we interviewed that had gone up there
|
||
confirmed the same story...we also had confirmation of other bits
|
||
of his story from other people, a former security guard who
|
||
worked up there...who said he had seen the saucers, a former
|
||
technician...
|
||
|
||
CHUCK HARDER
|
||
By the way, excuse me, I have some letters from some people
|
||
postmarked from that area, one inside of a base, who tells me
|
||
what you're saying is true. Keep going.
|
||
|
||
GEORGE KNAPP
|
||
Ah, we also found a Nellis Airman who had been on radar duty at
|
||
Nellis airbase which is here just south of the area that this
|
||
fellow is talking about...he reported numerous times seeing...
|
||
|
||
CHUCK HARDER
|
||
George, excuse me...let me do the half hour news break, I want
|
||
you to tell your story, I want America to hear it...please stand
|
||
by.
|
||
|
||
>>>>At this point the SUN RADIO NETWORK runs the half hour news
|
||
headlines and sports audio package from UPI<<<<
|
||
|
||
(After news the guest is re-introduced for listeners who may have
|
||
just tuned in...)
|
||
|
||
CHUCK HARDER
|
||
How many reports did you do, George?
|
||
|
||
GEORGE KNAPP
|
||
We did nine total in this series.
|
||
|
||
CHUCK HARDER
|
||
Ok, now at the time we went to news on the half hour you told me
|
||
that a scientist named Bob Lazar...
|
||
|
||
GEORGE KNAPP
|
||
Right...
|
||
|
||
CHUCK HARDER
|
||
Ok, came to you and came to the public and apparently was
|
||
concerned for his safety because he wanted to tell America or get
|
||
news out that - yes, the Federal Government has nine saucers, and
|
||
yes they are near...it's near Nellis, is it not?
|
||
|
||
GEORGE KNAPP
|
||
Yes.
|
||
|
||
CHUCK HARDER
|
||
Cause I have letters from people who are at Nellis. Some of
|
||
which don't want to give their name, some of which gave their
|
||
name, I have the postmarks. Tell us now if you would, start the
|
||
story from the fact that the gentleman has revealed that there
|
||
are nine of these things. We're listening and so is America.
|
||
|
||
GEORGE KNAPP
|
||
Well, we wanted to try to confirm as much of his story as
|
||
possible from other sources of course, so we started looking for
|
||
other people who might have knowledge of what's going on up
|
||
there...as I mentioned, I found a former security guard who said
|
||
that he had seen the saucers up there, I found a former
|
||
technician who said that he had walked into a room inadvertently
|
||
and saw one under a tarp, we found a Nellis airman who had worked
|
||
in radar and said that basically he and his fellow airman has
|
||
seen these things flying over the Groom Mountains at speeds up to
|
||
7,000 miles per hour on radar...these things would stop on a
|
||
dime, so the guy knew that this is not your average airplane
|
||
that's doing this. We also interviewed the other people who went
|
||
with Lazar up on two consecutive weeks, they test them on
|
||
Wednesdays for some reason, and videotaped the tests, saw these
|
||
things flying over the mountains and confirmed his story as well.
|
||
|
||
We put these questions to the Navy, who Lazar says he worked for
|
||
up there -- we made Freedom of Information Act requests for
|
||
information about the various specific programs he mentioned, of
|
||
course the Navy denied having any information on the programs.
|
||
Of course in those requests we also asked for other information
|
||
about UFOs, stuff the Navy has already released and they denied
|
||
having that information as well -- so I don't put a lot of faith
|
||
in the FOIA requests.
|
||
|
||
CHUCK HARDER
|
||
In other words, what you're saying is that your organization
|
||
which is KLAS-TV in Las Vegas, plus many other UFO research
|
||
groups have uncovered many UFO documents that the government
|
||
says, 'Yeah, we got them and yeah it's true'...but then when you
|
||
ask them again they say, 'No, we don't have them!'
|
||
|
||
GEORGE KNAPP
|
||
Exactly...that's exactly correct!
|
||
|
||
CHUCK HARDER
|
||
I understand from MUFON and many other groups that there are
|
||
somewhere from four to seven thousand documents that prove
|
||
that...yes these things exist, copies of the documents are in
|
||
private hands, then you go and ask the government and they say,
|
||
'Well, er, no we don't remember...'
|
||
|
||
GEORGE KNAPP
|
||
The government says that they have done these studies that say
|
||
that UFOs are no threat to national security, they're either
|
||
psychological aberrations, which means that people are nuts when
|
||
they see them, that's what they feed the public...but behind the
|
||
scenes they are very concerned about the national security
|
||
implications of UFOs that land at nuclear missile bases and can't
|
||
be caught, things of that nature. So the government from what
|
||
I've read is very concerned about the phenomena and doesn't
|
||
really understand it. The government on the other hand has
|
||
outright lied concerning what information it does have...the CIA
|
||
for example says it doesn't collect any information on
|
||
UFOs...well that's just patently not true. We have documents
|
||
from the CIA, a lot of it is blacked out, which mentions UFO
|
||
studies by the CIA, UFO research, CIA-UFO experts, agency
|
||
personnel who are monitoring the phenomenon, so they have lied to
|
||
us all along. I didn't expect to get any confirmation regarding
|
||
what Lazar has to say, but had to give it a try anyway.
|
||
|
||
CHUCK HARDER
|
||
Before we went to the half-hour break you said that when he
|
||
looked inside one of these discs there were little furniture,
|
||
give me some information...
|
||
|
||
GEORGE KNAPP
|
||
Well he feels that they were bringing him along, giving him a
|
||
piece at a time. He would see a saucer one day, the next he
|
||
would see the hanger doors open and see all nine of them...after
|
||
that he got to see the inside of the thing. He also got to see a
|
||
demonstration of it. He was told to stand back and watch
|
||
this...and the thing lights up real bright...I guess the power
|
||
that's produced is incredible, you need to produce your own
|
||
gravitational field and it raised up, he wasn't sure who was
|
||
flying it or was it remotely or what. He watched it raise up,
|
||
did a couple of maneuvers and sat back down. Part of the reason
|
||
he came forward, not to spill the secrets of the universe or the
|
||
government, but because the research that's being done up there
|
||
is being handled in a clumsy fashion. If they have had these for
|
||
as long as forty years, which is what he believes, they haven't
|
||
come to far in trying to understand them. Some of the discs he
|
||
said he saw up there were being taken apart, kind of a reverse
|
||
archaeology process to figure out how they worked. Some of the
|
||
research going on up there is aimed at trying to duplicate the
|
||
things that these machines can do using earth technologies and
|
||
earth materials and he says it just can't be done. The key to
|
||
the flying of the things is something he calls 'Element 115'...it
|
||
does not exist on our periodic charts, he believes that wherever
|
||
it came from its a naturally occurring element, he says we have
|
||
500 pounds of this stuff up there, just a little tiny sliver of
|
||
it produces incredible amounts of power. Its the '115' that we
|
||
will not be able to duplicate so he thinks...one of the reasons
|
||
that he came forward is because scientists all over the world are
|
||
working, putting their energy into trying to master the secrets
|
||
of gravity and the secrets of anti-matter technology and here
|
||
we've got it up there and they're not doing a very good job with
|
||
it -- this little batch of scientists hidden out in the desert
|
||
are trying to figure it out and not doing a very good job...
|
||
|
||
CHUCK HARDER
|
||
But this is kind of common with the United States government...I
|
||
read a tremendous amount of material...I read a tremendous amount
|
||
of material...I read five newspapers a day and I'll find where
|
||
one group in one part of the country is working on a project and
|
||
I'll get a clipping where another group is working on the same
|
||
project, I've contacted them and they don't know of each other!
|
||
|
||
GEORGE KNAPP
|
||
Yeah, Yeah -- that's exactly right...he said the
|
||
compartmentalization up there was very severe as well so that
|
||
nobody had the full picture -- I guess so nobody could spill the
|
||
beans as he has been trying to do.
|
||
|
||
CHUCK HARDER
|
||
Alright, what does he feel the public should know and what does
|
||
he feel should be done?
|
||
|
||
GEORGE KNAPP
|
||
Well, he's not on a campaign, what he really wanted to do was to
|
||
save his own life. He started having some problems when it
|
||
became obvious to his employers that he was telling someone else
|
||
about this.
|
||
|
||
CHUCK HARDER
|
||
We're talking about Bob Lazar now...
|
||
|
||
GEORGE KNAPP
|
||
Bob Lazar...his phone being tapped, people visiting him, calling
|
||
him up with a single word message -- DEAD -- then they hang up!
|
||
He tried to arrange meetings with his former supervisor and the
|
||
meetings didn't come off, he says somebody took a shot at him on
|
||
the freeway...obviously he realizes that if they really wanted to
|
||
kill him, they could. Maybe perhaps they were just trying to
|
||
shut him up. He feels that what is going on up there is a crime
|
||
against the entire scientific community...not only the American
|
||
people because we don't know what's going on and we haven't been
|
||
told alien technology exists, but also against the scientific
|
||
community. So, what else can I tell ya?
|
||
|
||
CHUCK HARDER
|
||
What does he say about the aliens?
|
||
|
||
GEORGE KNAPP
|
||
He's reluctant to talk about that, apparently he did see some
|
||
aliens up there...
|
||
|
||
CHUCK HARDER
|
||
Excuse me, are you telling me there were live aliens?
|
||
|
||
GEORGE KNAPP
|
||
Yeah, he's kind of sketchy on the details of that, and I don't
|
||
think I should go much further on that...part of the discussion
|
||
until I can talk to him, but he has indications that there are
|
||
aliens up there, at least one...
|
||
|
||
CHUCK HARDER
|
||
Live?
|
||
|
||
GEORGE KNAPP
|
||
Yeah, it's pretty wild, I know and I didn't include that in our
|
||
reports because I couldn't confirm any thing of that nature, I
|
||
couldn't find anyone else who had seen them up there so...
|
||
|
||
CHUCK HARDER
|
||
What did they look like?
|
||
|
||
GEORGE KNAPP
|
||
Your classic Grey...the little big-headed almond eyed-grey
|
||
skinned being...the same ones in the classic descriptions of the
|
||
UFO literature...he's kind of squeamish talking about it as well
|
||
because it sounds so crazy...
|
||
|
||
CHUCK HARDER
|
||
I don't think it's crazy at all, there was an article, let me
|
||
digress for a moment, there was an article yesterday on the front
|
||
page of The Wall Street Journal where the FDA that stopped all of
|
||
the grapes from Chile last March...apparently somebody laced two
|
||
of the grapes with cyanide a couple of hours before the FDA,
|
||
stumbled on them and it was an inside job apparently while the
|
||
grapes were in the inspection station...and it was not done on
|
||
the way, so somebody's lying there -- we're talking of two little
|
||
grapes that almost bankrupted the country of Chile! If two
|
||
little grapes...and such a story hits the front page of The Wall
|
||
Street Journal about the questions about the truthfulness and
|
||
what happened with the FDA, what about this...how would this ever
|
||
get out if they would cover up a story about TWO LITTLE GRAPES?!
|
||
|
||
GEORGE KNAPP
|
||
Well, I tell you we asked the question, the obvious question, if
|
||
this is true; how can the government keep this a secret all this
|
||
time? A story this big -- the government leaks like a sieve on
|
||
other things, how could the coverup exist?
|
||
|
||
CHUCK HARDER
|
||
Oh, I'll tell you...
|
||
|
||
GEORGE KNAPP
|
||
To which Lazar responds, this is the easiest...and he asked the
|
||
question to his superiors up there, it's the easiest thing in the
|
||
world to keep a secret because if it does come out, little bits
|
||
and pieces, who's going to believe it?
|
||
|
||
CHUCK HARDER
|
||
Exactly...let me, you remember the Condon Report, do you not?
|
||
|
||
GEORGE KNAPP
|
||
Yes...
|
||
|
||
CHUCK HARDER
|
||
For those who are listening, I got into this investigation
|
||
because I kept getting letters from our listeners who said, Chuck
|
||
you ought to investigate this...we've investigated many things in
|
||
the past such as the GM Diesel coverup, we're working on a pay
|
||
phone coverup, we've done things with Ralph Nader...and so on.
|
||
So we started buying the books and contacting UFO organizations.
|
||
I then found that there was a guy named Phil Klass who was always
|
||
there...somehow he as always there and he said that everything
|
||
was bunk! And of course, he works for the Aviation Week magazine
|
||
which is of course is the mouthpiece for the Military/Industrial
|
||
complex and they certainly wouldn't want this technology to be
|
||
out! I was also amazed when I saw the stealth bomber (tests)
|
||
live on CNN one Saturday and a small plane landed at the same
|
||
place, (runway) do you remember that...?
|
||
|
||
GEORGE KNAPP
|
||
Yes...
|
||
|
||
CHUCK HARDER
|
||
My question is: If the Stealth Bomber was so super-secret, how
|
||
could a man and his children land their little tiny plane on the
|
||
same runway at a super-secret airforce base? How could he have
|
||
pierced the radar and fighter jets and so forth? My feeling was,
|
||
probably the Stealth Bomber was obsolete and nobody was watching!
|
||
|
||
GEORGE KNAPP
|
||
Yeah, I'd have to agree with you, because the security up
|
||
there...the only thing that comes out of that place is what they
|
||
want out of it.
|
||
|
||
CHUCK HARDER
|
||
So what your talking about then, since the Condon Committee, Phil
|
||
Klass and all the of the spokespeople who are supposed to know
|
||
everything, what your saying is the ridicule factor...if Billy
|
||
Bob sees a flying saucer and even has a photo of it and takes it
|
||
to the paper, everybody laughs at him!
|
||
|
||
GEORGE KNAPP
|
||
There are actual documents the government has released (Under
|
||
Freedom of Information Act) that show it has an active program
|
||
that started back in the fifties...the CIA even used the term
|
||
DEBUNKING, there were discussions about using Walt Disney to
|
||
produce cartoons that made fun of people who had seen flying
|
||
saucers...they were going to bring Arthur Godfrey in as their
|
||
spokesperson. Phil Klass as you mentioned, he's explained away
|
||
UFO sightings seen by thousands of people as the constellation
|
||
ORION, when you can only see ORION from the other side of the
|
||
planet.
|
||
|
||
CHUCK HARDER
|
||
Uh huh...
|
||
|
||
GEORGE KNAPP
|
||
He uses things like Ball Lightning, plasma balls to explain the
|
||
sightings where plasma balls only last for a few seconds and the
|
||
examples that he is trying to explain occur in cloudless skies
|
||
where there is no lightning around. You mention the Condon
|
||
report, that's a perfect example of the kinds of things that the
|
||
government has done in the past, they commission a study, it's
|
||
supposed to be THE STUDY, but the guy they hire to run the thing,
|
||
Edward Condon had before he even started, that there was nothing
|
||
to UFOs, the government should get out of it, and he also said at
|
||
one point that the authors of UFO books should be HORSEWHIPPED!
|
||
One of the explanations that came from the Condon Committee
|
||
witnessed by several people, they described it as, a natural
|
||
phenomena so rare that it has never been seen before or since! I
|
||
don't think this kind of a thing is an accident!
|
||
|
||
CHUCK HARDER
|
||
Ok, the Soviet Union and Tass gave their report (of a UFO) and
|
||
from what I have heard there are different kinds of aliens, some
|
||
have been coming here for years and years and it's nothing new...
|
||
|
||
GEORGE KNAPP
|
||
Right...
|
||
|
||
CHUCK HARDER
|
||
Why is it in some parts of the world (now) they report other
|
||
types of humanoids and other types of vehicles...I happen to have
|
||
beautiful photos of some, and as I told you off-the-air, we're
|
||
going to be releasing them in our upcoming magazine if someone
|
||
doesn't stick a dagger through my heart...
|
||
|
||
GEORGE KNAPP
|
||
You're talking about the Billy Meier case, if you want to touch
|
||
on that, we also did some investigation on that...
|
||
|
||
CHUCK HARDER
|
||
Ok, go ahead.
|
||
|
||
GEORGE KNAPP
|
||
Billy Meier, I've always been intrigued by that, and wanted to
|
||
check them out. Its been pretty much written-off by the UFO
|
||
community but when we put questions to them about the case they
|
||
can't explain exactly why so we traveled to Phoenix and talked to
|
||
Lee Elders one of the lead investigators on the Billy Meier case
|
||
and started going over the evidence. The photos had been
|
||
analyzed by independent experts, the film footage and video had
|
||
been analyzed, the metal sample had been confirmed as something
|
||
we don't have -- technology of cold fusion was used to produce
|
||
this metal, the landing sites, the strange circular patterns in
|
||
the grass that are now only gaining attention in Britain and
|
||
other countries, all of this stuff had never been pretty much
|
||
discounted by the UFO community because Elders and Wendelle
|
||
Stevens had gone outside of the UFO community to get
|
||
confirmation. The UFO people were kept out of it, the Billy
|
||
Meier case I think exemplifies the biggest weakness in UFOLOGY
|
||
and that's the jealousy that permeates the field...everybody
|
||
wants to be the only one with the real story of UFOs, so they
|
||
kind of written this guy off only because he didn't cooperate
|
||
with them.
|
||
|
||
CHUCK HARDER
|
||
We have been able to get some photos from a source who has some
|
||
negatives that were just recently located...some from ten feet
|
||
away, I used to be in the motion picture business. If they are
|
||
models they cost thousands of dollars and I doubt if a simple
|
||
Swiss farmer could have done it...
|
||
|
||
GEORGE KNAPP
|
||
I'd agree with ya, the reason we got interested in Billy Meier,
|
||
it goes back to Lazar, was because Bob Lazar says, the saucer
|
||
that he saw fly, he dubbed it the sport model, was the same
|
||
saucer in the Meier photos, exactly the same.
|
||
|
||
CHUCK HARDER
|
||
The new ones or the old ones?
|
||
|
||
GEORGE KNAPP
|
||
The new one.
|
||
|
||
CHUCK HARDER
|
||
Ok, that's the one we've got.
|
||
|
||
GEORGE KNAPP
|
||
Going back to the things he saw (Lazar) at S-4, he saw the nine
|
||
saucers, he said all nine of them were different, like we got the
|
||
variety pack, but the one he saw fly was like the one in the
|
||
Meier photo. (There are Three types photographed by Billy
|
||
Meier.)
|
||
|
||
That's why we decided to check out the Meier part of the (UFO)
|
||
story.
|
||
|
||
>>>>At this point Chuck Harder tells George Knapp that there is a
|
||
break coming up and after the break would he please tell Mr. and
|
||
Mrs. America what they should do to get the truth.<<<<
|
||
|
||
CHUCK HARDER
|
||
I hope that Mr. and Mrs. America make note of the name George
|
||
Knapp and Bob Lazar so that if anything ever happens to them, you
|
||
know why.
|
||
|
||
GEORGE KNAPP
|
||
Someone should tell us what's going on...TV and movies have
|
||
conditioned us...we won't panic...Jimmy Carter when he ran for
|
||
President promised that if he was elected that he vowed to open
|
||
all the UFO files and he didn't -- we wrote to him asking why and
|
||
he didn't respond. We want the government to come clean. If
|
||
that takes a Congressional Investigation...that's something that
|
||
should be looked at. If it is launched we have to make sure that
|
||
there are no CIA, contractors and the like involved otherwise
|
||
people aren't going to believe it. We've seen enough of this
|
||
whitewash stuff over the years. If there's nothing to the story,
|
||
then open up the files and prove it to us!
|
||
|
||
CHUCK HARDER
|
||
OK, have the government let the press into these areas and don't
|
||
first clean them out...
|
||
|
||
=================================================================
|
||
1117NAP.UFO
|
||
|
||
--
|
||
Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
|
||
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
|
||
INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f422.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG
|
||
|
||
|
||
|
||
********To have your comments in the next issue, send electronic mail to********
|
||
'infopara' at the following address:
|
||
|
||
UUCP {ncar,isis,boulder}!scicom!infopara
|
||
DOMAIN infopara@scicom.alphacdc.com
|
||
ADMIN Address infopara-request@scicom.alphacdc.com
|
||
{ncar,isis,boulder}!scicom!infopara-request
|
||
|
||
******************The**End**of**Info-ParaNet**Newsletter************************
|
||
|
||
$
|
||
Interrupt
|
||
|
||
$
|
||
|
||
Info-ParaNet Newsletters, Number 112
|
||
|
||
Thursday, December 28th 1989
|
||
|
||
Today's Topics:
|
||
|
||
Blue Book Expungement
|
||
MJ-12 Document - HOAX!
|
||
Re: Lazar/Area51
|
||
Re: Info-Paranet Newsletter
|
||
KVEG/Lazar Transcript #1
|
||
KVEG/Lazar Transcript #2
|
||
KVEG/Lazar Transcript #3
|
||
KVEG/Lazar Transcript #4
|
||
|
||
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
||
|
||
From: paranet!f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Jim.Speiser
|
||
Subject: Blue Book Expungement
|
||
Date: 27 Dec 89 05:59:00 GMT
|
||
|
||
I must say I am very distressed at the news that all the names are being
|
||
excised from the Blue Book files ("Crawdaddy" Magazine article by Jim
|
||
Hougan). Does anyone know why this is being done? Can the Privacy Act be
|
||
invoked ex post facto like this?
|
||
|
||
It seems to me that UFOlogy has a big political issue right here, that
|
||
many otherwise contentious groups could unite behind. I certainly hope
|
||
the big UFO magazines run editorials on this.
|
||
|
||
Jim
|
||
|
||
--
|
||
Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
|
||
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
|
||
INTERNET: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG
|
||
|
||
|
||
|
||
--------------------------------------------------------------------
|
||
|
||
|
||
From: paranet!f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Jim.Speiser
|
||
Subject: MJ-12 Document - HOAX!
|
||
Date: 27 Dec 89 06:42:00 GMT
|
||
|
||
As Robert Sheaffer reported here earlier, one of the MJ-12 documents has
|
||
finally been shown - CONCLUSIVELY - to have been hoaxed. Included with
|
||
the package of documents received in photographic form by Jaime Shandera
|
||
was a letter from Harry Truman to James Forrestal giving his formal
|
||
approval to the MJ-12 project. The signature on that letter is an EXACT
|
||
duplicate of one found on a real Truman document, reports Phil Klass in
|
||
the latest Skeptical Inquirer. The MJ-12 signature is 3.6% larger than
|
||
the legitimate one, which is exactly 3 times the enlargement factor of a
|
||
standard Xerox machine (1.2%, in order to cover up the "framing" effect
|
||
produced if a document isn't quite as large as the copying glass). Klass
|
||
theorizes that it would take three Xeroxing procedures to transfer the
|
||
real signature onto the bogus document.
|
||
|
||
I have to hand it to Phil on this one...the evidence is plain. The
|
||
Forrestal letter is a hoax.
|
||
|
||
The distressing thing in all this is Stan Friedman's stubborn refusal to
|
||
back off. Worse, apparently Friedman knew of the conclusions of the
|
||
handwriting analysts, yet went right on with his lectures and speeches,
|
||
giving no indication that anything was amiss. This does not reflect well
|
||
on his other achievements or his overall credibility, which until now I
|
||
had held in high regard.
|
||
|
||
We are still left, however, with the questions of who and why, and with
|
||
which noted Western government's blessing.
|
||
|
||
Jim
|
||
|
||
--
|
||
Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
|
||
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
|
||
INTERNET: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG
|
||
|
||
|
||
|
||
--------------------------------------------------------------------
|
||
|
||
|
||
From: paranet!p0.f19.n19.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Bryon.Smith
|
||
Subject: Re: Lazar/Area51
|
||
Date: 27 Dec 89 10:53:00 GMT
|
||
|
||
In a message to Jim Speiser <12-20-89 01:15> Don Allen wrote:
|
||
|
||
DA> And what do the "greys" or "aliens" have to do with this??
|
||
DA> I dunno...maybe *they* are calling the shots,or maybe
|
||
DA> "they"
|
||
DA> are the ones making "demands" or *else*..
|
||
DA> I still maintain that what we call the "Evil ET's" are the
|
||
DA> Nephilim or nefilim of days gone by..(a nasty lot).
|
||
|
||
You and I agree on that.
|
||
|
||
I bet we could get an argument out of Brad Steiger though, they say these
|
||
"Sons of God" came to help us so to speak. There might very well be "good"
|
||
aliens out there and I think there must be, but these were not them.
|
||
|
||
...Bryon
|
||
|
||
--
|
||
Bryon Smith - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
|
||
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
|
||
INTERNET: Bryon.Smith@p0.f19.n19.z1.FIDONET.ORG
|
||
|
||
|
||
|
||
--------------------------------------------------------------------
|
||
|
||
|
||
From: ames!pbhya.PacBell.COM!jwste (Jerry Steffler)
|
||
Subject: Re: Info-Paranet Newsletter
|
||
Date: 27 Dec 89 16:19:18 GMT
|
||
|
||
|
||
Here's yet another edition of the UFO news. The only reason that I'm
|
||
writing anything here is that I had replied incorrectly to one of the
|
||
ELM questions during fowarding procedures.
|
||
|
||
|
||
|
||
|
||
|
||
--------------------------------------------------------------------
|
||
|
||
|
||
From: paranet!p0.f422.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin
|
||
Subject: KVEG/Lazar Transcript #1
|
||
Date: 28 Dec 89 01:19:00 GMT
|
||
|
||
I apologize for the length of these messages, however the material seems
|
||
very important to the shape of things.
|
||
|
||
========================================================
|
||
(C) Copyright 1989 ParaNet Information Service
|
||
All Rights Reserved unless copyrighted by Author.
|
||
========================================================
|
||
|
||
Below is the transcript of the Billy Goodman Happening Show
|
||
as it aired on December 20, 1989. Robert Lazar was the guest of
|
||
Billy Goodman.
|
||
|
||
==================================================================
|
||
|
||
12/20/89
|
||
Billy Goodman
|
||
|
||
Goodman:
|
||
What exactly does Area S-4 mean?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
I really don't know. It might be referred to as "Site" 4 --
|
||
that might be what the "S" is for, but I really don't know.
|
||
There are THREE S-4's in all of the Nevada Test Site. The
|
||
nuclear test site itself is a small area, and it has "sites"
|
||
or "areas" 1 to 29 or 30. The S-4 there, I think, is a
|
||
nuclear reactor. There's an S-4 just south of the Tonopah test
|
||
range. And there's an S-4 -- the one that I worked at -- just
|
||
south of Groom Lake.
|
||
|
||
Goodman:
|
||
Bob Lazar, while working there as a Government scientist, saw
|
||
not only one but as many as nine flying saucers. And he's
|
||
telling the whole world about it. He wants everybody to know
|
||
that in fact there are flying saucers out there. Last time
|
||
you were here, you never really told us what are their plans
|
||
with these flying saucers. Do you have any idea WHY we have
|
||
flying saucers at this point?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
I guess it's just essentially research. The idea is to back-
|
||
engineer them, to go back and find out how they can be duplicated
|
||
using earthly materials and technology.
|
||
|
||
606:
|
||
Is it possible these machines travel in time back and forth?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
It's certainly possible. Certainly, when you create any
|
||
artificial gravitational field, you technically move in your
|
||
own time. So technically, you do slip forward when you create
|
||
your own intense gravitational field.
|
||
|
||
606:
|
||
BACK in time too?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Theoretically, that's possible. Exactly how you would do that,
|
||
I don't know off the top of my head.
|
||
|
||
606:
|
||
So that could be used like a time machine, right?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Essentially yeah, that is --
|
||
|
||
606:
|
||
For time travel?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
-- that is possible.
|
||
|
||
606:
|
||
Wow! That's really something!
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Yeah, that's science-fiction-like.
|
||
|
||
Fritz, Westlake, California:
|
||
Billy, it is sizzling again on the West Coast. Bob Lazar,
|
||
thank you very much for coming on again. You must come on.
|
||
This has got to go nationwide. The cat is out of the bag.
|
||
I'm sure those little gods in S-54 are listening in, and
|
||
believe me, it's your best security to come on. If anything
|
||
happens to you, we're all behind you, Bob Lazar -- everybody.
|
||
This is like a snowball going down the hill and will become an
|
||
avalanche, and ignorance will be wiped out. We've got to know
|
||
the truth -- for once and forever. They are here! Let's find
|
||
out why they are here and who they are and what their purpose is.
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Well thank you!
|
||
|
||
Fritz:
|
||
Okay Bob, we're all behind you. Billy, keep that show going!
|
||
It's the Number One show in America in talk shows.
|
||
|
||
Goodman:
|
||
Well, thank you very much Fritz. He did explain to you why we
|
||
have flying saucers, right?
|
||
|
||
Fritz:
|
||
Well, I know why they are here. The general public has to become
|
||
aware; they're just wakening up. It's like a film being lifted
|
||
from their eyes. I mean, they've been laughing for forty years!
|
||
|
||
Goodman:
|
||
Wait a minute Fritz. You know why they're here? Why are they
|
||
here, Fritz?
|
||
|
||
Fritz:
|
||
Well, first of all, it's a conditioning process.
|
||
|
||
Goodman:
|
||
Okay, you got it.
|
||
|
||
Fritz:
|
||
We are in a quarantine because we are so ignorant; our ignorance
|
||
keeps us from meeting them. Big brother reaches out the hand and
|
||
says, "Come over, little brother, let's have the cosmic connection,"
|
||
but we have to become a world together -- earthlings.
|
||
We are about 170 nations -- 170 languages; we have to come together.
|
||
When we have a spokesman, then we will meet on equal ground.
|
||
|
||
Tim from Pasadena:
|
||
When you looked into the saucer, how does the hatch work? How
|
||
does it seal up, and what are all of the mechanics involved?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
The hatch -- or whatever it was -- was completely removed; there was
|
||
just an opening in the side of the craft.
|
||
|
||
Tim:
|
||
Did the opening have any kind of sealing around it or a lip?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
I really don't remember. 'Cause I was so interested in looking
|
||
inside, I didn't really catch a strong glimpse of the sealing
|
||
mechanism or any other thing around it.
|
||
|
||
Tim:
|
||
When you were previously on Billy's show, you said you looked into
|
||
one, and it was all smooth like it had been a wax casting.
|
||
|
||
<Continued next message...>
|
||
|
||
--
|
||
Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
|
||
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
|
||
INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f422.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG
|
||
|
||
|
||
|
||
--------------------------------------------------------------------
|
||
|
||
|
||
From: paranet!p0.f422.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin
|
||
Subject: KVEG/Lazar Transcript #2
|
||
Date: 28 Dec 89 01:23:00 GMT
|
||
|
||
<...Continued from previous message>
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Yeah, exactly.
|
||
|
||
Tim:
|
||
Now, was that the only one you looked into?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
No, it was the only one I looked into. The other ones I just saw
|
||
from a distance, so I don't know any detail about them.
|
||
|
||
Tim:
|
||
And the one you looked into, was that the "Sport Model"?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Yes, exactly.
|
||
|
||
Tim:
|
||
And that's the only one you saw fly as well?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Right.
|
||
|
||
Tim:
|
||
What was your work there?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Like I said before, it was essentially to back-engineer the
|
||
propulsion and power system.
|
||
|
||
Tim:
|
||
So you weren't really involved in the mechanics of the craft
|
||
itself?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
No, not at all.
|
||
|
||
Tim:
|
||
But mostly just the Element 115 and all that kind of stuff you
|
||
were learning about?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Right.
|
||
|
||
Goodman:
|
||
What is gravity?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Gravity is a wave. It's a force, essentially, just like
|
||
electromagnetic waves are a different type of force. I really don't
|
||
know a good way to describe gravity.
|
||
|
||
Goodman:
|
||
Einstein and other scientists really don't have an answer for what
|
||
gravity is, do they, totally; they don't really understand it
|
||
totally, do they?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
No, no, not at all. In fact, I don't think we understand
|
||
ANYTHING about gravity.
|
||
|
||
Goodman:
|
||
Why don't we just float away ourselves? What keeps us down
|
||
on the planet?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
That is the attractive force of gravity.
|
||
|
||
Goodman:
|
||
Some people say it presses down, but it doesn't, does it?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
No, it doesn't. It's an attractive force. It's like, on
|
||
an atomic scale, the strong and weak nuclear forces hold the
|
||
atoms individually together.
|
||
|
||
Goodman:
|
||
Is your actual title government scientist or physicist?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
You could use either one.
|
||
|
||
Goodman:
|
||
You are no longer a government scientist or physicist, right?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Not employed by the government.
|
||
|
||
Goodman:
|
||
But you are continuing in the scientific field. What do you do?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
I design and build advanced radiation detection equipment,
|
||
mainly alpha radiation equipment for essentially use in
|
||
detecting plutonium for national laboratories.
|
||
|
||
Lee Samuels:
|
||
How long has that craft been on this earth?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
I really don't know. I don't even know how long it's
|
||
been down at S-4.
|
||
|
||
Samuels:
|
||
Do you know where it originally landed?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
No, you got me on all that stuff. They really never keep me
|
||
in as to --
|
||
|
||
Samuels:
|
||
It could have been here for years?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Yeah. Or it could have been brought in in pieces from
|
||
somewhere else, too.
|
||
|
||
Samuels:
|
||
Did you see just one craft or a number of craft?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
I saw a number of them.
|
||
|
||
Samuels:
|
||
Did the other workers talk about it, where it came from,
|
||
or more they towed in, or whatever?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
I don't know. There really wasn't that much conversation
|
||
between everyone.
|
||
|
||
Samuels:
|
||
Were you by yourself when you were investigating the craft?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Walking by myself. There were security people around me,
|
||
but when I crawled underneath on the sub-floor to look at
|
||
the gravity amplifiers, I got away from them. But there
|
||
was no one right next to me the whole time.
|
||
|
||
Samuels:
|
||
Any evidence of LIVE aliens held captive?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Nothing I could put my finger on.
|
||
|
||
Samuels:
|
||
Then you didn't get to see any at all then in that sector?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Nothing I could put my finger on.
|
||
|
||
Samuels:
|
||
Did the craft have sleeping quarters for aliens? Is it like
|
||
a Star Trek craft? What kind of craft is it?
|
||
|
||
<Continued next message...>
|
||
|
||
--
|
||
Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
|
||
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
|
||
INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f422.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG
|
||
|
||
|
||
|
||
--------------------------------------------------------------------
|
||
|
||
|
||
From: paranet!p0.f422.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin
|
||
Subject: KVEG/Lazar Transcript #3
|
||
Date: 28 Dec 89 01:26:00 GMT
|
||
|
||
<...Continued from previous message>
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
No, it's pretty vacant inside. Granted, a couple of things
|
||
were removed; they were sawed off at the base. I don't
|
||
know what they were; I just saw little stumps on the ground,
|
||
so I don't know what was removed. But it doesn't look
|
||
like it had anything like sleeping quarters or anything
|
||
like that.
|
||
|
||
Samuels:
|
||
Any writing you could detect or any language on the walls?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
No.
|
||
|
||
Samuels:
|
||
Any panels, like a dashboard on a car?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Yeah. In fact, that was one of the things -- There was more
|
||
than one control panel set up, but it looks like one was
|
||
removed.
|
||
|
||
Samuels:
|
||
Were these craft all from the same source? Were they all
|
||
identical?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
No. Each craft was completely different in physical
|
||
appearance. I didn't get to look in depth at the other
|
||
craft, but I only fooled around with one.
|
||
|
||
Samuels:
|
||
I applaud your courage.
|
||
|
||
Caller (referring to a certain book):
|
||
Have you heard of him?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
I think I thumbed through that book once. I think John
|
||
Lear --
|
||
|
||
Caller:
|
||
What the heck is an energy grid on our planet?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
I don't know. I don't buy that theory or anything in
|
||
that book. It's a grid outlined over the entire globe,
|
||
and at each intersection there's an energy vortex of
|
||
some kind. I'd rather not comment since I don't buy it.
|
||
|
||
Caller:
|
||
On TV you mentioned something about a time warp and a
|
||
folding over. What did you mean by that?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Right. It's how gravity, whether produced artificially
|
||
or naturally, distorts time and space.
|
||
|
||
Caller:
|
||
I read about Nicola Tesla questioning Einstein's theory
|
||
of relativity. He says that energy DOESN'T come from
|
||
matter. Where does it come from if it doesn't come
|
||
from matter?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
That's a strange question. It can be EXTRACTED from
|
||
matter. But it can be extracted by other means, too.
|
||
I really don't understand that [question].
|
||
|
||
Tom from Los Angeles:
|
||
How can UFOs be kept secret for 40 years?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
I did pose that question to some people at S-4, and the
|
||
answer that I got was that it's the easiest thing TO keep
|
||
secret because of the subject matter.
|
||
|
||
Tom:
|
||
Is that because it's tied in with a lot of parapsychology-
|
||
psychic-type stuff -- National Enquirer?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Maybe so. There is so much disinformation made so available
|
||
to the public via the tabloids and things like that that
|
||
any true information getting out is assumed to originate
|
||
from those sources.
|
||
|
||
Tom:
|
||
Carl Sagan is a "people" scientist; he's brought science
|
||
down to the general public. What about getting him involved
|
||
in this somehow?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
I imagine he's fairly open-minded. I've never met him.
|
||
|
||
Tom:
|
||
He's one of the biggest UFO debunkers.
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
He's going to need his own proof, as everyone should require.
|
||
It's impossible to make an absolute believer out of someone
|
||
that hasn't had hands-on experience or has seen something for
|
||
themselves. That's the way any scientist is going to look
|
||
at it.
|
||
|
||
Tom:
|
||
How far is Zeta Reticuli?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
I think it's around 32 light years.
|
||
|
||
Tom:
|
||
Do these ships travel faster than light?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
It's an irrelevant question because they get around it
|
||
because they're not in a linear mode of travel. Since they're
|
||
distorting time and space, there's no true time reference.
|
||
And since velocity is distance over time, when you begin to
|
||
fool around with time, you really can't state a true velocity.
|
||
|
||
Tom:
|
||
Re the SETI program -- the search for radio signals --
|
||
couldn't some of these observatories or telescopes be aimed
|
||
at the places where aliens supposedly come from?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
RADIO waves and frequencies along that band aren't utilized;
|
||
it's GRAVITY wave communication, and a radio-telescope isn't
|
||
going to pick up anything of that sort.
|
||
|
||
Goodman:
|
||
The way you got to see this UFO was not planned by anyone
|
||
wanting you to see it, right? You were walking with security
|
||
and you went into a doorway. How did you describe that before?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
It may have been planned by them. I had no advance warning of
|
||
it. I had been brought in a separate door the whole time, and
|
||
one specific time I was just led into the area where I worked --
|
||
through the hangar doors, which I had never been in before --
|
||
walked directly by the craft, and began to slow down by it,
|
||
and they said, "Just keep walking; keep your eyes forward," and
|
||
it was just like that.
|
||
|
||
Nothing was said, and I just went and sat down in an empty room.
|
||
|
||
Goodman:
|
||
You went and sat down in an empty room after you saw it?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Yeah, waited for this guy that I worked with, Barry, and then
|
||
we went to work on some of the work we were assigned to.
|
||
|
||
Goodman:
|
||
What was some of the work that you actually did? What did
|
||
you actually do at S-4? When you had an assignment, what would
|
||
it have been, for example?
|
||
|
||
<Continued next message...>
|
||
|
||
--
|
||
Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
|
||
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
|
||
INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f422.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG
|
||
|
||
|
||
|
||
--------------------------------------------------------------------
|
||
|
||
|
||
From: paranet!p0.f422.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin
|
||
Subject: KVEG/Lazar Transcript #4
|
||
Date: 28 Dec 89 01:29:00 GMT
|
||
|
||
<...Continued from previous message>
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Most of the time I worked there I was being briefed and being
|
||
brought up to date on what had been done before. Most of
|
||
the hands-on bench work was with the anti-matter reactor
|
||
itself: being shown how it operated, giving demonstrations,
|
||
and things of that sort.
|
||
|
||
Goodman:
|
||
There was practically no communication with your fellow workers?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Right. They kept that to an absolute minimum. They were on the
|
||
buddy system: you always worked with someone, and that's the
|
||
person you communicated with, and there was really no cross-
|
||
talk between groups.
|
||
|
||
Goodman:
|
||
When you went there for the initial interview, you said at
|
||
the time they actually had a gun at your head --
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
No, that was at the security briefing.
|
||
|
||
Goodman:
|
||
Security, wherever that may be --
|
||
The initial interview when you went to work at S-4 I'm talking
|
||
about, that's not when the gun was at your head?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
No.
|
||
|
||
Goodman:
|
||
When you went there, what was your understanding about what
|
||
you were going to be doing?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Some high-technology work, and I assumed they were talking
|
||
about some sort of gravitational propulsion system.
|
||
|
||
Goodman:
|
||
Were you excited about that?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Oh yeah, very much so, because there was some talk about
|
||
that because it was something that I was interested in,
|
||
something they KNEW I was interested in, and that was the
|
||
hint that I got.
|
||
|
||
Goodman:
|
||
And did it come to fruition? Did what you were told you were
|
||
going to do actually happen?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Yeah.
|
||
|
||
Goodman:
|
||
For what period of time?
|
||
|
||
[Goodman goes right into NEXT question.]
|
||
How long were you actually there before you let people know
|
||
what was going on up there? How many months or days or whatever?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Probably a couple of months.
|
||
|
||
Goodman:
|
||
Every time you went there you literally had to fly up, land at
|
||
Groom Lake, take a bus that was blacked out at the windows --
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Right.
|
||
|
||
Goodman:
|
||
-- and no communication on the bus. What were you thinking as
|
||
a young man. You're a very young man; let's face it.
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
I'm not that young.
|
||
|
||
Goodman:
|
||
Well, you're a very young man; I think you are. Anyway, what
|
||
were you thinking? Were you just saying, well this just goes
|
||
with the territory and I'm just going to go along with this?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Oh yeah, you bet! I would have done that and much more just
|
||
to be involved with the project.
|
||
|
||
Goodman:
|
||
Ah! The excitement was just being there, being a part of
|
||
what was going on behind the scenes. The secret part about it?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Oh sure. I would have taken a LOT more crap than they had
|
||
dealt out.
|
||
|
||
Goodman:
|
||
Can you picture it? He's in his thirties, sitting on a bus,
|
||
and accepting the fact, Okay, I'm going to work this morning,
|
||
not talking to his compadres on the bus, is looking straight
|
||
ahead, blackened-out windows, not driving on asphalt, all dirt
|
||
roads. . . Didn't you ask yourself why they didn't do anything
|
||
about the dirt roads?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
It was a good dirt road. A lot of the roads around there are
|
||
dirt, in fact almost all are.
|
||
|
||
Mark in Los Angeles:
|
||
Previously, you described the central column of the propulsion
|
||
device as being a wave guide. There was a disk toward the
|
||
bottom of this thing down near the anti-matter generator that
|
||
spins. What is that disk made of --
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
There's no spinning disk.
|
||
|
||
Mark:
|
||
What is the disk made of? Is it a capacitor?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
A disk? The wave guide extends down, and it widens out and
|
||
sits on the curved portion of the reactor. The bottom of the
|
||
reactor is a plate, but nothing rotates or moves; it's all
|
||
connected together.
|
||
|
||
Mark:
|
||
Is that plate a capacitor?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
No.
|
||
|
||
Mark:
|
||
Well, what is it made of?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Metal. That's the only way I can describe it; I don't know
|
||
what kind; it's [electric-] --
|
||
|
||
Mark:
|
||
Did anyone determine the kind of metal it was?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Not to my knowledge.
|
||
|
||
<Continued next message...>
|
||
|
||
--
|
||
Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
|
||
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
|
||
INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f422.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG
|
||
|
||
|
||
|
||
********To have your comments in the next issue, send electronic mail to********
|
||
'infopara' at the following address:
|
||
|
||
UUCP {ncar,isis,boulder}!scicom!infopara
|
||
DOMAIN infopara@scicom.alphacdc.com
|
||
ADMIN Address infopara-request@scicom.alphacdc.com
|
||
{ncar,isis,boulder}!scicom!infopara-request
|
||
|
||
******************The**End**of**Info-ParaNet**Newsletter************************
|
||
|
||
|
||
Info-ParaNet Newsletters, Number 113
|
||
|
||
Thursday, December 28th 1989
|
||
|
||
Today's Topics:
|
||
|
||
KVEG/Lazar Transcript #5
|
||
KVEG/Lazar Transcript #6
|
||
KVEG/Lazar Transcript #7
|
||
KVEG/Lazar Transcript #8
|
||
KVEG/Lazar Transcript #9
|
||
KVEG/Lazar Transcript #10
|
||
KVEG/Lazar Transcript #11
|
||
|
||
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
||
|
||
From: paranet!p0.f422.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin
|
||
Subject: KVEG/Lazar Transcript #5
|
||
Date: 28 Dec 89 01:32:00 GMT
|
||
|
||
<...Continued from previous message>
|
||
|
||
Mark:
|
||
I understand that part of the propulsion system involves a
|
||
very large capacitor -- which is usually the entire lower
|
||
surface of the disk -- that can make use of something along the
|
||
lines of the [Bifield] Brown Effect. Do you know what
|
||
the components of the dielectric material in that capacitor
|
||
are?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Well, if the bottom of the disk is one plate of the
|
||
capacitor, then the dielectric material would be the air --
|
||
if you're going to look at the earth as another plate of
|
||
the capacitor. But as far as the capacitor being integral
|
||
to the actual craft itself, no, I found no evidence of
|
||
that.
|
||
|
||
Mark:
|
||
I understand there's an antenna section in this device; what
|
||
is the resonant frequency that that operates at?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
The resonant frequency of the gravity wave I do know, but
|
||
I don't know it off hand; I just can't remember it.
|
||
|
||
Mark:
|
||
Can you give me a ballpark, like 2,000 kilohertz?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
I really don't remember. It's a really odd frequency.
|
||
|
||
Mark:
|
||
Is it measured in kilohertz or gigahertz or megahertz?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
I really don't remember.
|
||
|
||
Mark:
|
||
When you first started to go public and were meeting with
|
||
people at John Lear's house, I understand that there were
|
||
a number of witnesses at those first meetings. One of them
|
||
claims that you did say that you had seen an extraterrestrial
|
||
while working inside one of those saucers, trying to back-
|
||
engineer the propulsion system, and that you had been
|
||
looking out through a doorway or through a porthole in the
|
||
side of the device and that you had actually seen an
|
||
extraterrestrial walking around on the outside of one of
|
||
those devices.
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Devices meaning disks?
|
||
|
||
Mark:
|
||
Yes.
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
No.
|
||
|
||
Mark:
|
||
So you're saying you've never seen an extraterrestrial at
|
||
S-4.
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
I really don't want to get into that.
|
||
|
||
Mark:
|
||
The reason I ask is because someone else is claiming that
|
||
you have.
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Well, stated the way you did, no I didn't. And I never did
|
||
look and see an extraterrestrial. As the story goes, and
|
||
the reason I never bring it up, is because I thought I saw
|
||
something once -- walking at a glance -- and that's all there
|
||
is to it. And I won't stand on that fact because it was
|
||
just a fleeting glimpse; when I came back, whatever was
|
||
there was gone; it could have been a million things.
|
||
|
||
Mark:
|
||
I have a contact that claims that you were responsible
|
||
for determining that Element 115 was not in fact necessary
|
||
to operate an anti-gravity propulsion device in the earth's
|
||
magnetic field. Is that true?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
No, it's the exact opposite.
|
||
|
||
Caller:
|
||
Why are you going public? There's obviously a lot of other
|
||
staff on the project that senses a great degree of loyalty.
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
The straw that broke the camel's back was, after I left
|
||
the program I became concerned about what happens now. I
|
||
made a routine request for my birth certificate, which I
|
||
needed just for I.D. purposes, and I was told that it
|
||
doesn't exist, I wasn't even born at that hospital. I sat
|
||
on that for about a week and just wondered, and then I
|
||
began to inquire at previous jobs and also at other schools,
|
||
and that information was also gone. And I got the idea that
|
||
soon someone was going to disappear, so that's when I contacted
|
||
the TV station and essentially let everything out.
|
||
|
||
Caller:
|
||
But you left the program under very amicable circumstances?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
No, that's a long, involved story that I really don't want
|
||
to get into.
|
||
|
||
Caller:
|
||
Are you afraid of any repercussions from the govenment?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Oh yeah, I was really concerned at one time.
|
||
|
||
Caller:
|
||
Less so now?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Yeah, less so now, but you still keep in the back of your
|
||
mind . . .
|
||
|
||
Caller:
|
||
If anything would happen to you now, that would cause such an
|
||
uproar in itself, the last thing they would do would be to go
|
||
anywhere near you.
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Exactly. As someone said on the media somewhere, if there're
|
||
following me now, it's to make sure nothing happens to me.
|
||
|
||
Caller:
|
||
Did you witness any working models of the vehicle that were
|
||
operational?
|
||
|
||
<Continued next message...>
|
||
|
||
--
|
||
Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
|
||
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
|
||
INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f422.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG
|
||
|
||
|
||
|
||
--------------------------------------------------------------------
|
||
|
||
|
||
From: paranet!p0.f422.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin
|
||
Subject: KVEG/Lazar Transcript #6
|
||
Date: 28 Dec 89 01:36:00 GMT
|
||
|
||
<...Continued from previous message>
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
I only saw one operate. I saw one at close range while I
|
||
was at the area and then at extreme distance -- about 15
|
||
miles, when I brought some friends up to look at it.
|
||
|
||
Caller:
|
||
Using the technology that's being used, the craft are very
|
||
agile, aren't they?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Oh yes, very, in one specific mode of travel.
|
||
|
||
Caller:
|
||
In one direction at a time?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
No. There's two modes of travel. There's a low-speed mode
|
||
and a high-speed mode. I don't remember what they called them;
|
||
they had a specific name for them.
|
||
|
||
Caller:
|
||
What was the size of the staff working on the project?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
22 people that I knew of, in the area that I worked in. How
|
||
extensive the rest of the facility was, I don't know.
|
||
|
||
Caller:
|
||
I understand you were frustrated at the size of the staff.
|
||
You thought it should have been larger?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Oh yeah! Much!
|
||
|
||
Caller:
|
||
More could have been learned about the program more
|
||
quickly?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Sure! I mean, 22 people, c'mon!
|
||
|
||
Caller:
|
||
Do you think we understand enough about the alien propulsion
|
||
technology to build our own vehicles, using this technology --
|
||
or are we even close? Do we know what's going on?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Yeah, we know what's going on, but the problem is substituting
|
||
earthly materials, and there's no easy way getting around that.
|
||
|
||
Caller:
|
||
How is Element 115 involved in the construction of the vehicles?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Everything seems to come down to 115. It's a super-heavy
|
||
element. It seems that as you get into the heavier elements --
|
||
and I'm sure this property extends into as-yet-undiscovered
|
||
elements in excess of atomic number 115 -- that the ATOMIC
|
||
gravity wave inside the atoms holding things together begins
|
||
to extend outside of the atomic structure itself, and it's
|
||
this wave that can be tapped off in quantity -- small quantity,
|
||
actually. This wave can be amplified, contained, and used
|
||
for a useful purpose.
|
||
|
||
Goodman:
|
||
Are your radiation detectors for nuclear power plants?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Not nuclear power plants; weapon . . .where they use
|
||
plutonium.
|
||
|
||
Goodman:
|
||
Like the latest flight above us now?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
The Galileo?
|
||
|
||
Goodman:
|
||
Yeah.
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Yeah.
|
||
|
||
Goodman:
|
||
Are you involved with that, Mr. Lazar?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Not directly. Someone may have used our probes to
|
||
detect --
|
||
|
||
Number 37:
|
||
Are they flying these vehicles within our city areas at any
|
||
time?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
I really don't know. I was only witness to a couple tests.
|
||
I don't know how far they go. I think they're very careful
|
||
with them. I personally don't think they're whipping them
|
||
around the solar system because I don't know how profficient
|
||
they are at operating them.
|
||
|
||
Number 37:
|
||
Do you read any UFO literature in book form?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Nothing in book form. I occasionally get handed little tidbits
|
||
here and there and glance at them, but no, I don't delve
|
||
into reading.
|
||
|
||
Number 37:
|
||
You mentioned some stuff on the Billy Meiers case. Have
|
||
you read any of that information because you had mentioned
|
||
that you had seen some pictures?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Yeah, I looked at the, what caught my eye was certainly
|
||
the -- whatever that book's called -- Contact From the Plaeides
|
||
or something -- but it's essentially a picture book; there's
|
||
really no text in it. One of the craft in there looks strikingly
|
||
similar to the one I call the Sport Model.
|
||
|
||
Number 37:
|
||
What did you think of that similarity? Did that puzzle you?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Yeah, because originally I had kind of discounted the Billy
|
||
Meiers stuff, but that craft looks AMAZINGLY like the one that
|
||
I worked on. And another thing, somewhere in that book they
|
||
had a picture of a grassy field with three round indents in
|
||
the ground. Now that would coincide with the three gravity
|
||
amplifiers in the bottom of the craft and the imprint that
|
||
they do make, so that kind of makes me believe that that
|
||
really did occur.
|
||
|
||
Number 37:
|
||
You said you didn't necessarily share the same views of
|
||
Bill Cooper and John Lear as far as the big picture
|
||
was concerned?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
I'm not exactly sure what each individual story is.
|
||
John Lear has a specific story; Bill Cooper has a specific
|
||
story. I do agree with both of them in the fact that,
|
||
yeah, there's alien craft here and so on and so forth.
|
||
John Lear thinks there're here to use us for food. I
|
||
don't exactly remember Bill Cooper's story. But the little
|
||
intricate parts here and there -- I just haven't seen any
|
||
evidence MYSELF of it. I don't know what these gentlemen
|
||
have found out on their own.
|
||
|
||
Caller 37:
|
||
>From everything you know about it, do you believe there is
|
||
a possibility there are benevolent creatures in the universe?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Oh sure.
|
||
|
||
Goodman:
|
||
How would you describe this picture?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
It's an interesting picture. It looks like a formation of
|
||
four and a formation of two flying saucers.
|
||
|
||
Goodman:
|
||
That picture came in a box delivered to the Vagabond Inn.
|
||
No name, no nothing. Just a note:
|
||
|
||
"This picture was taken from the 29-1/2-mile marker on the
|
||
day that I had the best time of my life, thanks to you,
|
||
Billy Goodman Happening."
|
||
|
||
That's all.
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
There's even a distortion in the cloud behind a couple of
|
||
them; that's really interesting.
|
||
|
||
Goodman:
|
||
That is right up there where people have gone. Bob mentioned
|
||
the same thing that I said when I saw that: "Boy, that's
|
||
a DAYTIME shot."
|
||
|
||
Look at the smile on Bob Lazar's face!
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
It would be interesting to magnify it to some degree.
|
||
Very interesting. They're glowing the color that the
|
||
crafts glow.
|
||
|
||
Goodman:
|
||
I don't know who you are out there, but I thank you very,
|
||
very, very much, because that is absolute, positive proof
|
||
that they are up there in the sky having a good time.
|
||
|
||
Do you think that they're flown by alien beings, or are
|
||
WE -- the military -- doing it?
|
||
|
||
<Continued next message...>
|
||
|
||
--
|
||
Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
|
||
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
|
||
INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f422.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG
|
||
|
||
|
||
|
||
--------------------------------------------------------------------
|
||
|
||
|
||
From: paranet!p0.f422.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin
|
||
Subject: KVEG/Lazar Transcript #7
|
||
Date: 28 Dec 89 01:40:00 GMT
|
||
|
||
<...Continued from previous message>
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
I think that the ones that we're testing . . . the one
|
||
that I was involved in I think is being flown by the
|
||
military. Whatever else is going on I don't know.
|
||
|
||
Was that picture taken over Area 51?
|
||
|
||
Goodman:
|
||
That's right. And it looks like it. Recognize the peak?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Yeah. Of course, that's a daytime photograph. And I was
|
||
told that all the testing was done at night. And, I mean,
|
||
that's interesting.
|
||
|
||
Goodman:
|
||
You described, when you went inside one of these little
|
||
puppies, that there were very, very small seats, almost like
|
||
a kindergarten type.
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Right. Exactly.
|
||
|
||
Goodman:
|
||
So we have to have some small guys doing it -- jockeys
|
||
or something?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
No,no. You could squeeze into it.
|
||
|
||
Paul:
|
||
Do these craft appear to be shuttle craft, not the main
|
||
craft?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
I don't know how you'd differentiate between the two?
|
||
|
||
Paul:
|
||
In most instances, people speak of them joining up with
|
||
another craft and then going out of the atmosphere. Could
|
||
the models you've seen be classed as shuttle craft in
|
||
that respect?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
I really don't know.
|
||
|
||
Paul:
|
||
They wouldn't carry a big fleet of people?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
No, definitely not. They are small, I'm guessing right in
|
||
the mid-30-, 40-foot range, somewhere in there. And as far
|
||
as carrying a lot of cargo or beings or whatever, no, there's
|
||
not a whole lot of room there. So possibly there is a larger
|
||
craft that they join with, but I didn't see any.
|
||
|
||
Paul:
|
||
Are there more engines than there are craft at S-4?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
That's a good question. There's nine craft. I really don't
|
||
know.
|
||
|
||
Paul:
|
||
It would be something to explain how in the hell we got more
|
||
engines than we do craft. There's got to be some kind of an
|
||
agreement or somebody helping us.
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Right. There's certainly more fuel than there needs to be.
|
||
|
||
Paul:
|
||
Since they have released you and taken away your scientific
|
||
livelihood, I hope you go on the national circuit, 60 Minutes,
|
||
the Carson show, everything you can get on, and milk it for
|
||
every dime you can get.
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
[laughs]
|
||
|
||
Paul:
|
||
You have a right to do that since they interrupted your career.
|
||
But the important thing is to get this stuff into the hands of
|
||
the scientific community, that can do some good with it.
|
||
|
||
They've been toying with it for years and nothing's come out of
|
||
it. We can't get anywhere. We've got to get it out of the
|
||
hands of these power-mongers.
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
I agree one hundred percent.
|
||
|
||
Paul:
|
||
I think that's why you took people up there in the first
|
||
place. You were tired of their games.
|
||
|
||
Wesley Crumb, Charleston, Illinois:
|
||
It's a great privilege to get a chance to speak with you.
|
||
I greatly admire your courage in coming forward. I saw a
|
||
copy of the KLAS program you did. When I first heard about
|
||
you I ran up about a $300 phone bill calling New York and
|
||
Chicago, and everywhere. I got a rejection today from the
|
||
Donahue show that they don't want to do a program about you.
|
||
|
||
Did you go inside all nine spacecraft?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
No, no, just one.
|
||
|
||
Crumb:
|
||
When you were inside the craft, did you see any indication
|
||
that either through markings on the controls or otherwise
|
||
that these ships were from a different place? Was there
|
||
any writing on any controls or anything?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
No, not on controls and things like that. But I did see
|
||
some evidence of writing.
|
||
|
||
Crumb:
|
||
When you saw the slight demonstration that was performed for
|
||
you, were you the only person that was there that saw this
|
||
craft operate?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
No, there were several people. I was standing right next to
|
||
the person who was in radio contact with the craft.
|
||
|
||
Crumb:
|
||
How long did this demonstration last?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
It was a short duration. It lifted off the ground, slid
|
||
over to the left, then back to the right, and set back
|
||
down. It was a very short duration.
|
||
|
||
Crumb:
|
||
But you never saw who was at the controls?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
No, because when I was brought in, the craft was in the
|
||
hangar. When I came out, it was already out of the hangar
|
||
and sitting on -- well, sitting out away from the hangar
|
||
some distance. So I don't know how it was brought out, who
|
||
brought it out, who got in it. I can only guess.
|
||
|
||
Crumb:
|
||
Is the entire thing underground -- all nine different
|
||
hangars?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
No, it's not underground; it's just butt up against the
|
||
side of a little mountain, a little hill kind of, but it's
|
||
kind of inside the mountain.
|
||
|
||
Crumb:
|
||
Do you feel that the billions of dollars that are being
|
||
spent on the space program by the administration is a waste
|
||
of money, as we already have these ships in our posssession?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
No, because look at all the technology that we did get out
|
||
of the space program.
|
||
|
||
Crumb:
|
||
Was it ever disclosed to you that these craft were on loan
|
||
to us. Is there a chance of them being repossessed at any
|
||
time?
|
||
|
||
<Continued next message...>
|
||
|
||
--
|
||
Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
|
||
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
|
||
INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f422.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG
|
||
|
||
|
||
|
||
--------------------------------------------------------------------
|
||
|
||
|
||
From: paranet!p0.f422.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin
|
||
Subject: KVEG/Lazar Transcript #8
|
||
Date: 28 Dec 89 01:43:00 GMT
|
||
|
||
<...Continued from previous message>
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
No, none of that was ever disclosed to me -- anything about
|
||
the origin.
|
||
|
||
Crumb:
|
||
I heard a rumor earlier this evening that your van was shot
|
||
at recently. Is there any truth to that?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
I don't have a van. I was shot at in my car.
|
||
|
||
Crumb:
|
||
It got passed on to me from the Video Clearinghouse in
|
||
Yucaipa, and we've been keeping pretty close touch ever
|
||
since this news broke.
|
||
|
||
I did get a call yesterday from the National Enquirer. They
|
||
might follow up and try and do something for you, Bob.
|
||
The Enquirer is not exactly the best way you want to go,
|
||
but at least it does have some national exposure.
|
||
|
||
Burt in Burbank:
|
||
You said there's more fuel than necessary at the Test
|
||
Site?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Yeah. I don't know exactly where it is, but there's
|
||
500 pounds.
|
||
|
||
Burt:
|
||
500 pounds of Element 115?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Yeah, and it takes 223 grams per craft, so there's
|
||
definitely an abundance of fuel out there.
|
||
|
||
Burt:
|
||
Could you quickly describe the underside of these
|
||
ships?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
No, because I only saw from a SIDE view of only
|
||
one craft. The other ones were always sitting on the
|
||
ground; I never saw it. But the underside is
|
||
essentially flat. Now, I never got directly under it
|
||
to look. There might be some features down there, but
|
||
I really don't know.
|
||
|
||
Burt:
|
||
The reason I ask is because you were talking about the
|
||
three distortions that can come down from the gravity
|
||
engines to distort the graph.
|
||
|
||
Are you aware of any time distortion within the saucer
|
||
itself while they are running?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Yeah, there has to be.
|
||
|
||
Burt:
|
||
What about SIZE distortion within the ship?
|
||
I've heard reports that people who have been in
|
||
these that the inside seems much larger than the
|
||
outside would indicate.
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
I have heard that too, but I haven't really seen
|
||
any evidence of that.
|
||
|
||
Burt:
|
||
You were talking about the low- and high-speed modes
|
||
and the control factors in there. Can you describe
|
||
those modes and what the ship looks like each time
|
||
it is going through those modes?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
The low-speed mode -- and I REALLY wish I could remember
|
||
what they call these, but I can't, as I can't remember
|
||
the frequency of the wave --
|
||
|
||
The low-speed mode: The craft is very vulnerable; it bobs
|
||
around. And it's sitting on a weak gravitational field,
|
||
sitting on three gravity waves. And it just bounces
|
||
around. And it can focus the waves behind it and keep
|
||
falling forward and hobble around at low speed.
|
||
|
||
The second mode: They increase the amplitude of the
|
||
field, and the craft begins to lift, and it performs a
|
||
ROLL maneuver: it begins to turn, roll, begins to turn
|
||
over. As it begins to leave the earth's gravitational
|
||
field, they point the bottom of the craft at the
|
||
DESTINATION. This is the second mode of travel, where
|
||
they converge the three gravity amplifiers -- FOCUS
|
||
them -- on a point that they want to go to. Then they
|
||
bring them up to full power, and this is where the
|
||
tremendous time-space distortion takes place, and that
|
||
whips them right to that point.
|
||
|
||
Burt:
|
||
Did you actually bench-test a unit away from the
|
||
craft itself?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
The reactor, yeah.
|
||
|
||
Burt:
|
||
About how large is this, and could you describe it?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
The device itself is probably a plate about 18 inches
|
||
square; I said diameter before but it is square. There's
|
||
a half-sphere on top where the gravity wave is tapped off
|
||
of, but that's about the size of it.
|
||
|
||
Amy:
|
||
Are there subjects you won't talk about regarding what
|
||
was going on at Groom Lake at the project?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
No, I don't think so.
|
||
|
||
Amy:
|
||
Do you have future plans for more publicity?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
There are several networks that are interested.
|
||
|
||
Amy:
|
||
60 Minutes?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
That's been mentioned, but I haven't heard anything
|
||
officially.
|
||
|
||
Amy:
|
||
Would you do it?
|
||
|
||
<Continued next message...>
|
||
|
||
--
|
||
Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
|
||
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
|
||
INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f422.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG
|
||
|
||
|
||
|
||
--------------------------------------------------------------------
|
||
|
||
|
||
From: paranet!p0.f422.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin
|
||
Subject: KVEG/Lazar Transcript #9
|
||
Date: 28 Dec 89 01:46:00 GMT
|
||
|
||
<...Continued from previous message>
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Yeah, I'd do a major network thing, sure.
|
||
|
||
Amy:
|
||
Are you familiar with the movie Hangar 18?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Yeah, I think I saw that when it first came out.
|
||
|
||
Amy:
|
||
Do you remember any parallels to what you know now?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
I don't remember enough about the movie.
|
||
|
||
Amy:
|
||
The KLAS-TV program showed a Los Alamos newspaper
|
||
article about you during the time that you were
|
||
at Los Alamos. What paper was that? When was it
|
||
written?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
The Monitor, July 1982, or something like that.
|
||
I think I still have a copy at home.
|
||
|
||
Amy:
|
||
Did the alien craft create harmful radioactivity
|
||
in the area?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
No.
|
||
|
||
Amy:
|
||
The woman talked about on the show a few days ago --
|
||
the child and the two women [Cash/Landrum case?] -- and
|
||
they now have cancer. How did that occur?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
I've heard of that before, and that sounds like a
|
||
really poor attempt at us producing a craft -- a
|
||
nuclear-powered craft, really dirty, spewing nuclear
|
||
material all over the place. It sounds something
|
||
that we would make. It really rings human.
|
||
|
||
Amy:
|
||
Do the aliens appear to be the same physical makeup?
|
||
>From your research on the craft itself, can you tell
|
||
if they are similar to us -- by the way it was
|
||
designed?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Certainly smaller.
|
||
|
||
Amy:
|
||
But there's nothing other than that?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Not from the crafts. I read some material pertaining
|
||
to what they call the typical grey. I believe
|
||
them to be that.
|
||
|
||
Goodman:
|
||
It was interesting when you asked for your birth
|
||
certificate, and you could not locate it. And
|
||
they told you that literally you did not exist?
|
||
They TOLD you this in so many words?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
They said we just have no records here.
|
||
|
||
Goodman:
|
||
And YOU felt that you didn't exist?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
I felt that that's what they were trying to
|
||
make happen.
|
||
|
||
Goodman:
|
||
Are you familiar with that type of thing
|
||
being done?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
No, I never heard of it before. I guess
|
||
other people have.
|
||
|
||
Goodman:
|
||
Did you ever get your birth certificate?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Nope.
|
||
|
||
Goodman:
|
||
What about diplomas and things of that nature?
|
||
Was there any record of any colleges you have
|
||
attended?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
George Knapp tracked down one, and they still
|
||
had a record there.
|
||
|
||
Goodman:
|
||
All the rest are gone?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Yeah.
|
||
|
||
Goodman:
|
||
Have you called the colleges yourself and asked
|
||
for copies?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Yeah. Yeah. Just like I went and called Los
|
||
Alamos, too, and they said, no, you never worked
|
||
here, and you know, I've been there for years. You
|
||
can present them with the information, look, here's
|
||
my name in the [Los Alamos] phone book, here are the
|
||
people that I've worked with, here is the guy that
|
||
I worked for, this is the project I worked on, and
|
||
all they say is no. I mean it's ridiculous.
|
||
|
||
Goodman:
|
||
And when you're talking to these people, I'm sure
|
||
there are some that probably are just working there;
|
||
they don't know any different. They are just checking
|
||
the records and saying we don't have anything.
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Right. You can hear them when you call up. They
|
||
are checking on the computer. They will type in
|
||
your name and it won't come up. So that's
|
||
probably all they do know.
|
||
|
||
Goodman:
|
||
People should realize this -- nowadays especially --
|
||
you could be pulled out -- all of us could -- and
|
||
anything we've ever done. If someone pulls your
|
||
name out of a computer where you've worked before
|
||
or you've had some past, you don't exist because
|
||
the new person or a personnel director going in and
|
||
checking -- you're not there. You have no record
|
||
of that individual.
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Right. It depends on the level that you look into
|
||
it, too. Like I said, George Knapp went out to
|
||
Los Alamos, and that's where he got the telephone
|
||
directory and spoke to someone I worked with out
|
||
there, and so on.
|
||
|
||
Goodman:
|
||
This mode of travel involved in moving these
|
||
UFOs around: Can you see that being a mode of
|
||
travel for us in the future. You said it only
|
||
took grams of fuel. That sounds pretty good
|
||
to me as far as being efficient. Do you think that
|
||
it's possible that we could be traveling like that
|
||
in the future?
|
||
|
||
<Continued next message...>
|
||
|
||
--
|
||
Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
|
||
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
|
||
INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f422.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG
|
||
|
||
|
||
|
||
--------------------------------------------------------------------
|
||
|
||
|
||
From: paranet!p0.f422.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin
|
||
Subject: KVEG/Lazar Transcript #10
|
||
Date: 28 Dec 89 01:49:00 GMT
|
||
|
||
<...Continued from previous message>
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Well, obviously, THEY do, so I imagine it's possible
|
||
in the future.
|
||
|
||
Goodman:
|
||
I'm talking about our automobiles. And do you have to
|
||
be off the ground in order to travel like this?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Yeah, I think you do. It's not a very good mode of
|
||
slow-speed travel.
|
||
|
||
Goodman:
|
||
Something else we talked about off the air. We might
|
||
as well tell the people about it. Some strange things
|
||
are going on in your life. You mentioned about car doors
|
||
being opened. Describe what happened the other night
|
||
when you and your . . . Shelley left the house and you
|
||
came back and the doors were wide open. What do you
|
||
think about all this?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
It's crazy! A friend of mine, Shelley, was over, and
|
||
we went out to a bar to have a, a, well, a buffet. We
|
||
went out, locked the door, checked everything, and we
|
||
came back several hours later, and all the doors were open.
|
||
And nothing was disturbed in the house; nothing was
|
||
taken. In her car that was left in the driveway, the
|
||
seats were moved all the way back like someone big sat
|
||
in them.
|
||
|
||
I've gone with other friends to a health club that I
|
||
go to. We lock the doors and check them; in fact, I
|
||
usually keep a gun in the car and put my wallet on the
|
||
dash. We've come out and the doors have been not just
|
||
unlocked but actually open -- not even the wallet taken
|
||
or the gun. Certainly kids would have done THAT. It's
|
||
just like someone wants me to know that they're still
|
||
there.
|
||
|
||
Goodman:
|
||
The last time you were on the Happening, you revealed
|
||
the gentleman's name --
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Dennis Mariano
|
||
|
||
Goodman:
|
||
-- saying he was threatening you and was the biggest
|
||
problem in your life. Have you had any problems with him since
|
||
then?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
No, not recently, no.
|
||
|
||
Goodman:
|
||
How would the anti-matter reactor act in a car?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
I don't know if I'd use that in a car. But if you wanted
|
||
to, you could use it as a tremendous electrical power.
|
||
|
||
Goodman:
|
||
Which goes back to the beginning of time: We were going
|
||
to have electric cars and were convinced we shouldn't have
|
||
electric cars because we were told we would have to plug
|
||
them in along the way.
|
||
|
||
It wouldn't be necessary -- as they said years ago -- to
|
||
plug in along the way to re-charge the batteries if we had
|
||
something inside to generate --
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Right. Along the same lines, you could make a NUCLEAR-powered
|
||
car, too, running off plutonium.
|
||
|
||
Goodman:
|
||
If we wanted to get involved with this anti-matter-reactor-type
|
||
or mode of travel, we'd have to have Element 115 --
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Right.
|
||
|
||
Goodman:
|
||
-- which you had in your possession at one time.
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Yeah, that's one of the things I got. And that was my
|
||
ace-in-the-hole.
|
||
|
||
Goodman:
|
||
And they got it off you.
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Yeah. We did get it. . . For people that saw the KLAS
|
||
tape, where George Knapp points and says, "It's stored in
|
||
containers similar to this one," well, that WAS one. And
|
||
that's why we put it on there. It was kind of a jab at
|
||
them to say we got it. That was the real ace-in-the-hole
|
||
because if everyone came out and jumped on it and said
|
||
this is all garbage and everything, you know, just to pop
|
||
that out and say, go check this!
|
||
|
||
Goodman:
|
||
Listen guys out there at Area S-4: I know you're listening
|
||
'cause we heard this recently. Why don't you get some of
|
||
that somehow to Bob.
|
||
|
||
Why would that be your ace-in-the-hole?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Because anyone can verify that it's an element that
|
||
doesn't exist.
|
||
|
||
Goodman:
|
||
Boy, that would be wonderful if we could just get that.
|
||
Any of you Mercury Workers up there that want to get
|
||
involved, and say that you do want to get involved, that
|
||
might be a great way to help Bob's cause out and to prove
|
||
his story, behind the story.
|
||
|
||
Bill from Las Vegas:
|
||
Someone previously called in and said that some of the
|
||
Mercury Workers had decided to get behind Lazar. Has Bob
|
||
Lazar ever heard anything in relation to that? Have any
|
||
of the Mercury Workers contacted him, and do any of them
|
||
intend to go public as you have done?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
I don't know what the situation is with those guys, if
|
||
they're for real or not. I've got messages through people
|
||
that someone called once and said there were three of them
|
||
and two of them were captured down at S-4 being tortured.
|
||
And there was another guy out here. And so I really don't
|
||
know what the story is with those guys -- if they're for
|
||
real or not.
|
||
|
||
Bill:
|
||
Have you had any contact from other scientists that you
|
||
had worked with or any other scientists either at S-4
|
||
or any other scientists that don't work there?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Scientists that DON'T work there, yeah, that I worked with
|
||
at Los Alamos, sure. But none at S-4, no.
|
||
|
||
<Continued next message...>
|
||
|
||
--
|
||
Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
|
||
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
|
||
INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f422.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG
|
||
|
||
|
||
|
||
--------------------------------------------------------------------
|
||
|
||
|
||
From: paranet!p0.f422.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin
|
||
Subject: KVEG/Lazar Transcript #11
|
||
Date: 28 Dec 89 01:53:00 GMT
|
||
|
||
<...Continued from previous message>
|
||
|
||
Bill:
|
||
Since you've gone public with this, you've had contact with
|
||
them calling you and wanting to know what's going on,
|
||
etcetera?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Oh yeah. There were a couple that I gave information to
|
||
as we were going along. And they knew what was going on
|
||
already -- through me.
|
||
|
||
Bill:
|
||
If you had other people to back you up and support you, it
|
||
might lend more credibility to what you're saying.
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
That was part of the idea of getting it on the news, and
|
||
I thought hopefully I would shake the tree and have these
|
||
other guys come forward and all be able to corroborate the
|
||
story and also have 115 under my belt, but that whole plan
|
||
backfired.
|
||
|
||
Bill:
|
||
This is for them if they're listening: The rest of us
|
||
simply just don't have the guts to do anything,
|
||
apparently.
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
I wish they did.
|
||
|
||
Bill:
|
||
Anything in the works with regard to any national television
|
||
coverage or news media coverage of any sort?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
There's been lots of talk but nothing definite. There's no
|
||
date set for anything, but there's been a tremendous amount
|
||
of interest, national and international.
|
||
|
||
Bill:
|
||
I heard talk that there's a BIG underground base up there,
|
||
too. Did you know anything about that?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
I've heard that story, but I have no first-hand knowledge of
|
||
it. I haven't been in any tunnels or any underground stuff.
|
||
|
||
Bill:
|
||
If these aliens that have these UFOs are obviously thousands
|
||
of years advanced in technology, it seems, how in the world
|
||
would it seem that the Government would come in possession
|
||
of these UFOs, if in fact the aliens didn't actually want
|
||
them to have them?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
I don't know. They look in very good condition. It doesn't
|
||
look like they were crashed, that they were retrieved somewhere.
|
||
It really looks like they were given. So I don't know; that
|
||
might be the case.
|
||
|
||
Goodman:
|
||
Have you ever given thought to the fact that maybe they were
|
||
invited here and they actually landed here and that's why
|
||
they were here?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Yeah, it's possible.
|
||
|
||
Goodman:
|
||
They could have come right to this area.
|
||
|
||
Jim from Las Vegas:
|
||
On TV, you spoke of observing a demonstration of this
|
||
anti-matter gravity wave controller device. And you
|
||
made a mock-up copy?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
A friend made one, yeah.
|
||
|
||
Jim:
|
||
I heard you speak of bouncing golf balls off of this
|
||
anti-gravity field?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Yeah.
|
||
|
||
Jim:
|
||
And also about the candle, the wax, and the flame
|
||
stood still?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Right.
|
||
|
||
Jim:
|
||
And then the hole that you saw appear --
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
It wasn't a hole; it was a little disk.
|
||
|
||
Jim:
|
||
Under what conditions did you see this demonstrated.
|
||
Elaborate on this. And how large was the force field?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
The force field where the candle was?
|
||
|
||
Jim:
|
||
The force field created by the anti-matter device.
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
It was about a 20-inch radius from the surface of the sphere.
|
||
|
||
Jim:
|
||
Where was this area, just above the device?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Yeah, surrounding the sphere.
|
||
|
||
Jim:
|
||
Did the sphere surround the device?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
No, the sphere sits in the center of the device.
|
||
It's a half-sphere sitting on a plate, and a field
|
||
surrounds the half-sphere.
|
||
|
||
Jim:
|
||
And you just place a candle in there?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
No, no, no. That was a separate demonstration. I'm
|
||
just telling you where the field EXTENDS from.
|
||
|
||
Jim:
|
||
Oh, that's what I'm curious about.
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
No, they tap the field off using a wave guide, off of
|
||
the sphere. And this is a completely different setup, where
|
||
they had a mockup small gravity amplifier, and there were
|
||
three focused into a point, and that area of focus was
|
||
probably nine or ten inches in diameter.
|
||
|
||
Jim:
|
||
They displaced this area or moved this area?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
No, it wasn't displaced; it's just where the field was
|
||
generated.
|
||
|
||
Jim:
|
||
And in there you put the candle?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Right.
|
||
|
||
Jim:
|
||
And that thing can actually bounce golf balls of of it?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
No, no. The golf ball thing, again, had nothing to do with that
|
||
setup. The golf ball thing had something to do with just when
|
||
the reactor was energized, before the wave guide was put on or
|
||
anything. We were just pushing on the field; it was being
|
||
demonstrated to me; and we just bounced a golf ball off the top.
|
||
|
||
<Continued next message...>
|
||
|
||
--
|
||
Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
|
||
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
|
||
INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f422.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG
|
||
|
||
|
||
|
||
********To have your comments in the next issue, send electronic mail to********
|
||
'infopara' at the following address:
|
||
|
||
UUCP {ncar,isis,boulder}!scicom!infopara
|
||
DOMAIN infopara@scicom.alphacdc.com
|
||
ADMIN Address infopara-request@scicom.alphacdc.com
|
||
{ncar,isis,boulder}!scicom!infopara-request
|
||
|
||
******************The**End**of**Info-ParaNet**Newsletter************************
|
||
|
||
$ (
|
||
|
||
Info-ParaNet Newsletters, Number 114
|
||
|
||
Thursday, December 28th 1989
|
||
|
||
Today's Topics:
|
||
|
||
KVEG/Lazar Transcript #12
|
||
KVEG/Lazar Transcript #13
|
||
KVEG/Lazar Transcript #14
|
||
KVEG/Lazar Transcript #15
|
||
KVEG/Lazar Transcript #16
|
||
KVEG/Lazar Transcript #17
|
||
KVEG/Lazar Transcript #18 (Conclusion)
|
||
Re: Lazar And His Amazing Saucers
|
||
Elders??
|
||
|
||
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
||
|
||
From: paranet!p0.f422.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin
|
||
Subject: KVEG/Lazar Transcript #12
|
||
Date: 28 Dec 89 01:56:00 GMT
|
||
|
||
<...Continued from previous message>
|
||
|
||
Jim:
|
||
And the candle: Does it melt and the flame stand still in
|
||
this DISK that you're talking about?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Well, in the AREA, yeah.
|
||
|
||
Jim:
|
||
You don't have to put it in the center?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Right.
|
||
|
||
Jim:
|
||
Just anywhere in the area?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Well, the actual flame of the candle WAS in the area --
|
||
in the center of the disk.
|
||
|
||
Jim:
|
||
And you saw this happen?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Yeah.
|
||
|
||
Goodman:
|
||
You don't show much emotion.
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Maybe that's my nature, but that's what happens after ten
|
||
o'clock if I'm sitting in one place.
|
||
|
||
Goodman:
|
||
I'm not being derogatory about it. I'm just saying it
|
||
seems like there's no emotion. Some of this stuff that
|
||
you're talking about just gives me chills!
|
||
|
||
We get mail from people at Jet Propulsion Laboratory and
|
||
McDonnell Douglas. Would you like to work for people
|
||
like that?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
I don't know. I'm kind of used to working for myself. I
|
||
don't know about going to work for . . . especially anything
|
||
attached to the Government again, [look with] distrust . . .
|
||
|
||
Goodman:
|
||
Off the air, I asked what would you like to see for the future
|
||
and what could you do for humanity? He said we could talk about
|
||
that, but the main concern right now is how he can support
|
||
himself, and I didn't realize you were having difficulty as far
|
||
as that.
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Oh no, not really difficulty, but it's something always
|
||
to look for.
|
||
|
||
Goodman:
|
||
How could anyone in our listening audience assist you?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Oh, they really can't. There's several things I did
|
||
before I began to get into the program up there. I used
|
||
to race my jet car. I'll probably start that up again
|
||
this season and expand my scientific business, United Nuclear.
|
||
I'll probably increase that into a sales field and things
|
||
like that.
|
||
|
||
Goodman:
|
||
Okay, I just thought we could bring that up just in
|
||
case there was someone out there that could use your
|
||
services. What service do you offer, if someone out
|
||
there could use it?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Someone would have to be fooling around with plutonium,
|
||
and there aren't many people that do that.
|
||
|
||
Goodman:
|
||
Don't bet on that. You never know.
|
||
|
||
Caller:
|
||
Was the craft you worked on one that WE made or was it
|
||
one that was brought here by the aliens from another
|
||
planet?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
This is a craft of alien origin.
|
||
|
||
Caller:
|
||
That was brought here BY them from another planet?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Yeah.
|
||
|
||
Caller:
|
||
Do we know anything about their way of life? Do they
|
||
speak the same language or what?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
I really don't know. I really know very little about
|
||
that. I'd LIKE to know a lot about that. You assume
|
||
that they mass-produce the craft, so there must be
|
||
some sort of factory somewhere. That means there must
|
||
be workers in the factory. Do they have a social life?
|
||
I mean, the questions are endless. I'd like to know
|
||
myself.
|
||
|
||
Caller:
|
||
And if they are here on this planet, WHERE are they?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
That's another good question. You got me. I really
|
||
don't know.
|
||
|
||
Caller:
|
||
If one walked up to my door, what am I supposed to do?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
I don't know. I guess you'll find out really quick if
|
||
they're benevolent or not. But as far as what to
|
||
do, who knows?
|
||
|
||
Goodman:
|
||
Say you're up in Kansas out in a farmland and you see
|
||
this person that looks really far-out, do you think
|
||
they're just going to wait for them to come to the
|
||
door or do you think they're going to shoot and ask
|
||
questions later?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Probably shoot and ask questions later --
|
||
|
||
Goodman:
|
||
That's the problem. Wouldn't that cause all kinds
|
||
of consternation amongst these people if they find
|
||
out one of their people were --
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Well, you have all the stories of the abductee
|
||
reports, about medical examinations; I mean they go
|
||
through a lot of trauma and stuff like that. When it
|
||
came right down to it, if I was confronted by a bunch
|
||
of them -- my car stopped or something to that effect,
|
||
a craft obviously in sight -- yeah, I'd take on
|
||
a hostile attitude really quickly.
|
||
|
||
Goodman:
|
||
Unless you were told differently --
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Right.
|
||
|
||
Goodman:
|
||
-- by the Government: these people don't mean to harm
|
||
you; they're going to be landing in your cities, whatever;
|
||
just [kinda act friendly.]
|
||
|
||
<Continued next message...>
|
||
|
||
--
|
||
Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
|
||
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
|
||
INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f422.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG
|
||
|
||
|
||
|
||
--------------------------------------------------------------------
|
||
|
||
|
||
From: paranet!p0.f422.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin
|
||
Subject: KVEG/Lazar Transcript #13
|
||
Date: 28 Dec 89 02:00:00 GMT
|
||
|
||
<...Continued from previous message>
|
||
|
||
Caller:
|
||
Do you think in the future our President will tell us
|
||
on national television that the UFOs are here, that he
|
||
will make it known to us?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
I doubt it.
|
||
|
||
Caller:
|
||
You don't think he ever will?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
No, I don't think he could muster up enough to do that.
|
||
|
||
Caller:
|
||
One of the presidents in the past was supposed to say
|
||
that if he was elected he was going to tell us all about
|
||
it, but he didn't.
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Carter. That tells you something right there, because
|
||
he never got in and denied it. He just got in and didn't
|
||
say anything.
|
||
|
||
New caller:
|
||
Did you have a badge when you went to work?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Sure did.
|
||
|
||
Caller:
|
||
Did it have any designation on it?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
As far as what?
|
||
|
||
Caller:
|
||
What did it say?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
It's a white badge. It has two -- a light blue and a
|
||
dark blue -- diagonal stripes through it. On the top
|
||
it says MAJ-12. The clearance level is called
|
||
MAJESTIC; I don't know if that was, like I said before
|
||
I don't know if that means anything as far as the
|
||
MAJESTIC-12 documents go, or if they just called that
|
||
clearance that as a nostalgia type of thing. My picture
|
||
was on it -- what else was on it . . .
|
||
|
||
Caller:
|
||
Did it have both MAJ and MAJESTIC -- both words?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
The only place I ever saw MAJESTIC was on Dennis's
|
||
[Mariano] badge, who was my supervisor, and his badge
|
||
looks slightly different. I don't know if it was an
|
||
older kind or what.
|
||
|
||
Caller:
|
||
You mentioned you were doing back-engineering, but
|
||
specifically, what was the breakdown of your duties,
|
||
for example, for one day, with respect to, say, what
|
||
your co-workers were doing? What was the breakdown,
|
||
the division of tasks?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
I have no knowledge of what the other people were doing.
|
||
|
||
Caller:
|
||
But you were not working simply by yourself.
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
No, just with one person.
|
||
|
||
Caller:
|
||
And what was the difference between what you did and
|
||
what he did?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Well, we were basically in the training phase. He was
|
||
getting me up to date on everything, so we never split
|
||
off, and you know, he went and did his thing, and I --
|
||
|
||
Caller:
|
||
Did you ever see an analysis or spectrogram of 115?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Yes.
|
||
|
||
Caller:
|
||
And what did that tell you?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Well, that it was an unknown element. Then we did density
|
||
and weight calculations, which are pretty basic, and of
|
||
course it was too heavy for its physical size. It was
|
||
an X-Ray spectrograph. I don't remember what other
|
||
tests we did to it.
|
||
|
||
Caller:
|
||
How did you know what the times of testing would be to
|
||
go up to the sites to view the object. And do you know
|
||
where it's being tested now?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Dennis told me the testing times. And of course those
|
||
were the times that I relayed to other people, and we
|
||
went out there. What was the other question?
|
||
|
||
Caller:
|
||
Do you know where it's being tested now?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Oh, I have no idea. In fact, if I was them, the last
|
||
place I would test them would be S-4.
|
||
|
||
Another Caller:
|
||
Are you familiar with Alnico 5 magnetic material we
|
||
use here?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Yeah, it's a common -- I never heard the 5
|
||
designation.
|
||
|
||
Caller:
|
||
It's a very dense magnet. Is that close to the
|
||
material of 115?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Oh no, not at all. That's an acronym for aluminum,
|
||
nickel, iron, and cobalt, none of them being anywhere
|
||
near it whatsoever.
|
||
|
||
Caller:
|
||
Are there portholes on that craft?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
At the very top, there is portholes; they are square,
|
||
though.
|
||
|
||
Caller:
|
||
But they must be able to see by TV or. . .?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
I don't know. I just saw from the outside. When I was
|
||
inside, I never -- I don't think I really even bothered
|
||
to look up there; I don't recall.
|
||
|
||
Caller:
|
||
With the gravity generators running, is there thermal
|
||
radiation?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
No, not at all. I was never down on the bottom WHILE
|
||
the gravity generators were running, but the reactor
|
||
itself -- there's no thermal radiation whatsoever. That
|
||
was one of the really shocking things because that
|
||
violates the first law of thermodynamics.
|
||
|
||
Caller:
|
||
The atomic weight of the 115 material: Is that heavier?
|
||
We know the 115 atomic weight would be different from the
|
||
gravitational weight. Is the gravitational weight of
|
||
that material very heavy?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Yeah.
|
||
|
||
Caller:
|
||
How does that stuff break off? Do you saw it or does it
|
||
grind up. How do you get to test grams or whatever it is?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
I don't know. I really don't know how that's machined into
|
||
it. I know it is machined, but I don't know if there's
|
||
any special procedures employed.
|
||
|
||
Caller:
|
||
Does it melt?
|
||
|
||
<Continued next message...>
|
||
|
||
--
|
||
Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
|
||
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
|
||
INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f422.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG
|
||
|
||
|
||
|
||
--------------------------------------------------------------------
|
||
|
||
|
||
From: paranet!p0.f422.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin
|
||
Subject: KVEG/Lazar Transcript #14
|
||
Date: 28 Dec 89 02:03:00 GMT
|
||
|
||
<...Continued from previous message>
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
I'm sure it does. And just historically, all heavy elements
|
||
are also toxic. I imagine it is a very toxic thing. What
|
||
else? If you use the standard designations as started at
|
||
103, its name would be "unuspentium [sp?]." Its symbol --
|
||
if it's going to be plugged into the periodic chart -- would
|
||
be UUP. In fact. I have a friend that gave it kind of a cute
|
||
name; he calls it "unobtainium."
|
||
|
||
Caller:
|
||
In your wildest dreams, do you think you would be able to
|
||
create any of this stuff on earth -- in order to do the same
|
||
thing?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
In fact, I'm in the process of fabricating the gravity
|
||
amplifier, but then I'm at a tremendous shortage for power.
|
||
So yeah, I have even tried to do that stuff on my own.
|
||
|
||
Caller:
|
||
Is there any electronics as we know it -- chips or
|
||
transitors?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
No, nothing like that. Because of the tremendous power
|
||
involved, too, there was no direct connection between
|
||
the gravity amplifiers and the reactor itself.
|
||
|
||
Caller:
|
||
Are the wave guides similar to what we use with
|
||
microwaves?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Very similar.
|
||
|
||
Goodman:
|
||
You mentioned all heavy metals are toxic?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Yeah, they seem to be. Lead, radium, plutonium . . .
|
||
|
||
Goodman:
|
||
Element 115?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
You would just assume it would be toxic.
|
||
|
||
Caller:
|
||
Is Sector 4 also called Papoose Dry Lake Bed?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Yeah.
|
||
|
||
Caller:
|
||
Is it also in a place called Emigrant Valley?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Right. You can see Papoose Dry Lake from out of the
|
||
hangar doors.
|
||
|
||
Caller:
|
||
In regard to the long-range method of travel, isn't
|
||
a propulsion unit the wrong idea? I feel this device
|
||
is creating a situation where it is diminishing or removing
|
||
the localized gravitational field, and long-distance body
|
||
that they're heading toward is actually PULLING the vehicle
|
||
rather than it being pushed. Am I correct in this?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
The vehicle is not being pushed. But being pulled implies
|
||
it's being pulled by something externally: it's pulling
|
||
something else to IT. IT's creating the gravitational
|
||
field.
|
||
|
||
Caller:
|
||
Is there any relation to the monopoles which [scientists]
|
||
have been looking for?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Well, they've been looking for the monopole magnet.
|
||
But then this [the UFO force] is a gravitational force.
|
||
|
||
Caller:
|
||
Different things but exhibiting similar effects?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Right.
|
||
|
||
Caller:
|
||
Last night I saw a four-door Japanese car. On the
|
||
right-side, rear, passenger door there were three
|
||
9mm bullet holes, about a 12-inch group. Is that
|
||
the vehicle that was shot at?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
No. That's similar to my car, but they missed me.
|
||
|
||
New Caller:
|
||
Do we give something in exchange for all this information
|
||
they're giving us?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
I really don't know. I don't know what went on behind
|
||
the scenes as far as how we got the technology.
|
||
|
||
Caller:
|
||
Did they give us the 115 in large quantities?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Yeah, 500 pounds is what I'm told. The way I've
|
||
seen it, it comes in little thin disks close to the
|
||
size of a half dollar.
|
||
|
||
Caller:
|
||
Did you ever own any, or -- ?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Yeah.
|
||
|
||
Caller:
|
||
What happened to it?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
It's gone. It was stolen out of my house along with
|
||
some other stuff that I got from there.
|
||
|
||
Caller:
|
||
[By] the Government?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
That's what I assume; I HOPE it's in their hands;
|
||
I'd hate it to be in . . . A few people did know
|
||
about it -- some UFO-related people -- and I'd hate
|
||
for unexperienced people to be in possession of
|
||
the stuff.
|
||
|
||
But yeah, that was taken. We did get some film of
|
||
it and some film of it doing some really unusual
|
||
things.
|
||
|
||
Caller:
|
||
How did you get hired at Area 51?
|
||
|
||
<Continued next message...>
|
||
|
||
--
|
||
Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
|
||
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
|
||
INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f422.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG
|
||
|
||
|
||
|
||
--------------------------------------------------------------------
|
||
|
||
|
||
From: paranet!p0.f422.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin
|
||
Subject: KVEG/Lazar Transcript #15
|
||
Date: 28 Dec 89 02:06:00 GMT
|
||
|
||
<...Continued from previous message>
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
I was referred by a well-known physicist to talk to
|
||
someone. And I really don't want to go all into that
|
||
because then I'm pointing fingers at specific people.
|
||
|
||
Caller:
|
||
Were everyone's mouths shut where you worked?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Yeah, everyone wouldn't let you talk, and it wasn't a
|
||
really happy environment. Everyone was just into what
|
||
they were doing and that was it.
|
||
|
||
New Caller:
|
||
What year were you working up there?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Last year.
|
||
|
||
Caller:
|
||
I heard from someone I know that's a pretty good
|
||
source that a small amount of plutonium, like a picogram,
|
||
might be good for you. Is that true?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
No, not at all.
|
||
|
||
Goodman:
|
||
What would you use plutonium for?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
To die. In the lungs, it's almost immediate lung cancer.
|
||
It's toxic in itself. The body has a tough time getting
|
||
rid of it. It's just bad news.
|
||
|
||
Goodman:
|
||
And you're messing with it.
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
I don't have any at my house.
|
||
|
||
Goodman:
|
||
You said that's part of what you're working on.
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Electronic equipment to detect plutonium: They're
|
||
called alpha radiation detectors or air proportional
|
||
detectors.
|
||
|
||
Goodman:
|
||
Why do you want to detect the plutonium?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
They use them to screen personnel that are leaving an
|
||
area that's been plutonium contaminated; they check
|
||
equipment for plutonium contamination; so on and so
|
||
forth.
|
||
|
||
Goodman:
|
||
This is as bad as radiation?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Plutonium does produce radiation.
|
||
|
||
Goodman:
|
||
So it's as bad as when they've been clearing the people
|
||
in nuclear power plants and stuff like this?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Yeah.
|
||
|
||
Goodman:
|
||
And you're devising a device that's going to be
|
||
easier?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
No, our device is just less expensive.
|
||
|
||
Caller:
|
||
Can you list your credentials?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
As far as what?
|
||
|
||
Caller:
|
||
Schooling, degrees.
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
I have two masters degrees; one's in physics; one's in
|
||
electronics. I wrote my thesis on MHD, which is
|
||
magnetohydrodynamics.
|
||
|
||
I worked at Los Alamos for a few years as a technician
|
||
and then as a physicist in the Polarized Proton Section,
|
||
dealing with the accelerator there.
|
||
|
||
I was hired at S-4 as a senior staff physicist to work on
|
||
gravitational propulsion systems and whatnot associated with
|
||
those crafts.
|
||
|
||
Caller:
|
||
What school did you go to?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
I'd rather not say, the reason being I am currently
|
||
working with them under contract, and I'm having enough trouble
|
||
with this as it is.
|
||
|
||
Caller:
|
||
Why did you leave the Groom Lake project?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
I don't want to go into that either. That's a big,
|
||
long complicated story. It gets into my personal life,
|
||
too, and I don't want to get into that.
|
||
|
||
Caller:
|
||
Have there been any attempts made on your life?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Yeah.
|
||
|
||
Caller:
|
||
When was the last one?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
There was only one direct one. I really don't remember
|
||
when that was, maybe six, eight months ago, something like
|
||
that. Just being shot at getting out on the freeway.
|
||
|
||
Caller:
|
||
Did another car drive by and shoot you?
|
||
|
||
<Continued next message...>
|
||
|
||
--
|
||
Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
|
||
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
|
||
INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f422.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG
|
||
|
||
|
||
|
||
--------------------------------------------------------------------
|
||
|
||
|
||
From: paranet!p0.f422.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin
|
||
Subject: KVEG/Lazar Transcript #16
|
||
Date: 28 Dec 89 02:09:00 GMT
|
||
|
||
<...Continued from previous message>
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Yeah.
|
||
|
||
Caller:
|
||
Are there any weapons on board the alien craft?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Not that I know of. Of course, the gravity generators
|
||
themselves can be focused, and I imagine that can be
|
||
used as a weapon.
|
||
|
||
Caller:
|
||
How many alien people do they hold?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
I don't know. How many people can you fit in a car?
|
||
I imagine if there's a bunch standing up, you can pack
|
||
them in there.
|
||
|
||
Caller:
|
||
Is Element 115 an extraterrestrial material?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Yes, definitely.
|
||
|
||
Caller:
|
||
How do you suppose the S-4 project came to acquire
|
||
500 pounds if it's not from this world?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
I would imagine it came on one of the craft.
|
||
|
||
Caller:
|
||
Extra fuel, huh?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Maybe.
|
||
|
||
Caller:
|
||
How close can a civilian get to Area 51 or Emigrant
|
||
Valley? What is security like? How many guards and
|
||
so forth?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
I think the closest you can get is probably about 10 miles,
|
||
and then you get a mountain between you and them.
|
||
|
||
Caller:
|
||
A lot of patrols?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Oh yeah.
|
||
|
||
Goodman:
|
||
Off the air, you said you traveled one time on hydrogen
|
||
in your car.
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Yeah, I had a 1978 TransAm I converted to run on hydrogen.
|
||
|
||
Goodman:
|
||
We were talking about this one night as a new fuel for
|
||
transportation. Is that more dangerous than gasoline?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
It depends how it's stored. There's ways you can do it.
|
||
|
||
You can store it as a gas, compressed in a cylinder where,
|
||
yeah, it's dangerous and explosive.
|
||
|
||
You can store it as a liquid -- cryogenic liquid --
|
||
where it's also dangerous and explosive.
|
||
|
||
Or you can also store it in a hydride [sp], a chemical
|
||
that absorbs hydrogen like a sponge absorbs water. When
|
||
it's in that storage state, it's really not flammable.
|
||
You heat the chemical using the radiator water, or electrically,
|
||
or the exhaust gas to produce the hydrogen, and there's only
|
||
a small amount at a time ever produced. And in that instance
|
||
it's a lot safer than gasoline, and that's the method I use.
|
||
|
||
Goodman:
|
||
In other words, we could put these in automobiles?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Absolutely, definitely. The only exhaust is water vapor --
|
||
essentially steam and very little oxides.
|
||
|
||
Goodman:
|
||
Where do we get hydrogen?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
The most common place is from water. When you pass electricity
|
||
through water, you break down the bonds and wind up with oxygen
|
||
and hydrogen.
|
||
|
||
Goodman:
|
||
What could we be charged if we pulled up to a tank and asked
|
||
for some water?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
It takes energy to separate the water back into its molecular
|
||
state, or atomic state rather.
|
||
|
||
|
||
Goodman:
|
||
But forgetting what the components are inside the car, if
|
||
a driver were to drive up, they would just have to put water
|
||
into this particular unit? Could they make it that simple?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
You could make it that simple, yes.
|
||
|
||
Goodman:
|
||
Has this been known for years in the scientific field?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
There's been plenty of cars that have been made to run on
|
||
hydrogen. In fact one state somewhere has their entire postal
|
||
fleet with little jeeps that run on hydrogen. There's a
|
||
company called Billings Energy that does the conversions.
|
||
|
||
Goodman:
|
||
Why do you think it's not being made readily available to us?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
There's probably lots of reasons. You're looking at the oil
|
||
companies. . .
|
||
|
||
Goodman:
|
||
Okay. That's what I wanted to get to.
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
But you can always point your finger at them for anything.
|
||
|
||
Goodman:
|
||
But I mean, it's just being held back from us even though it
|
||
could be here.
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
But you've got the problem of availability, too, if you're
|
||
going to just use gaseous hydrogen.
|
||
|
||
Goodman:
|
||
What would it take to change our current motor in a car to
|
||
accept this?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Not very much at all. It's very similar to a propane
|
||
conversion.
|
||
|
||
Goodman:
|
||
Have you heard from Mr. Teller at all?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
No.
|
||
|
||
Goodman:
|
||
Not one word? In other words, he's done nothing at all?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
No.
|
||
|
||
Goodman:
|
||
You said we're nowhere near being able to have an
|
||
anti-matter reactor?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
No, not at all. The first thing we'll come up with
|
||
when we toy with that some more is -- and there's already
|
||
been talk of it -- is an anti-matter weapon. Unfortunately,
|
||
that's the easiest thing to produce. First we'll see that
|
||
before we'll see potential useful uses.
|
||
|
||
<Continued next message...>
|
||
|
||
--
|
||
Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
|
||
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
|
||
INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f422.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG
|
||
|
||
|
||
|
||
--------------------------------------------------------------------
|
||
|
||
|
||
From: paranet!p0.f422.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin
|
||
Subject: KVEG/Lazar Transcript #17
|
||
Date: 28 Dec 89 02:13:00 GMT
|
||
|
||
<...Continued from previous message>
|
||
|
||
Goodman:
|
||
I was talking to Bob Lazar off the air, and Bob is a jet
|
||
car driver. That's how he relaxes, doing 350 miles per hour.
|
||
|
||
Roger:
|
||
Are the nine disks quite different in appearance?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Yeah, they're all completely different in appearance.
|
||
|
||
Roger:
|
||
Are they then perhaps from different star systems?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Could be.
|
||
|
||
Roger:
|
||
You said the one you looked at, the Sport Model, was from
|
||
Reticulum, right?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
That's what I READ.
|
||
|
||
Roger:
|
||
So that has the gravity propulsion system. But then some
|
||
of the others may have some other type of propulsion system?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
I was told that the reactors are all similar in them [the crafts],
|
||
and from that I just assume that the propulsion system is the
|
||
same. But it is possible that the other ones have different
|
||
propulsion systems, yeah.
|
||
|
||
Roger:
|
||
How many light years from Earth to Reticulum?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
32, 33, 34, somewhere around there.
|
||
|
||
Roger:
|
||
They must get away from Earth before they amplify these
|
||
gravitational systems, do they not?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
They don't HAVE to, but it has to be a line of sight where
|
||
they can move to.
|
||
|
||
Roger:
|
||
In other words, it wouldn't have any effect on the Earth even
|
||
though it were close to it when they turned it on?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
No.
|
||
|
||
Roger:
|
||
Where do the aliens fit into religion? They must say
|
||
something about it. I heard that they had a [bearing]
|
||
on us through religion, perhaps through colonization.
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
I've read some about that. You know, I don't want to
|
||
go into that because that's going to upset everybody.
|
||
|
||
Caller:
|
||
What is the top speed of the craft?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
It's tough to say a top speed because to say speed you have
|
||
to compare distance and time. And when you're screwing
|
||
around with time and distorting it, you can no longer judge
|
||
a velocity. They're not traveling in a linear mode where they
|
||
just fly and cover a certain distance in a certain time.
|
||
That's the real definition of speed. They're bending and
|
||
distorting space and then essentially snapping it back with
|
||
the craft, so the distances they can travel are phenomenal --
|
||
in little or no time. So speed has little bearing.
|
||
|
||
Caller:
|
||
Is the laser part of their technology or their flying speed?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
No, I haven't seen anything along that line.
|
||
|
||
Caller:
|
||
Is Rockwell involved with that?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Not that I've seen.
|
||
|
||
Pistol:
|
||
You've mentioned anti-gravity generator and anti-matter
|
||
generator. Are they different?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
It's not a gravity generator; it's a gravity amplifier. I
|
||
get tongue-twisted all too often.
|
||
|
||
The anti-matter reactor provides the power for the craft and
|
||
the basic low-amplitude gravitational wave, which is too low
|
||
of an amplitude to do anything. It's piped into the gravity
|
||
amplifiers, which are found at the bottom of the craft.
|
||
There it's amplified into an extremely powerful wave, and
|
||
that's what the craft is flown on. But there is an anti-matter
|
||
reactor: that's what provides the power.
|
||
|
||
Roger Nelson, KBAY-Radio San Francisco announcer:
|
||
Last time I asked Bob Lazar about the hyper-light propulsion
|
||
systems he had seen, he said the crafts have hyper-light
|
||
capabilities -- beyond the speed of light. Do you know
|
||
anyone in our government or who worked on the craft who
|
||
might be from Earth who has taken those craft and flown
|
||
past the speed of light to other galaxies?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
I don't, and I don't know if they have been used for that.
|
||
|
||
Nelson:
|
||
Is there any way to find how many of our guys on particular
|
||
programs have gone to space, what they're learning, exactly
|
||
where they are now, and whether or not there's any tie-in
|
||
with the Alternative Three Escape-Earth Plan that supposedly the
|
||
Government leaders are stirring up now. Is there any place
|
||
that you know of that this information can be found?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
I imagine, if any of that is in fact true, it would be found in
|
||
the midst of S-4 or 51 down there. But how to contact those guys
|
||
and actually get them to talk is a feat not yet attained.
|
||
|
||
Nelson:
|
||
What is it you are now doing now that they have cut you off
|
||
at the knees?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
I do other scientific research and produce, design, and
|
||
repair alpha radiation detection equipment.
|
||
|
||
Nelson:
|
||
A number of copies of these broadcasts and the show on
|
||
Channel 8 and all the other stuff has been getting around,
|
||
perhaps even internationally. Has anybody bothered you since
|
||
you went public?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Other than the sily little things that have been done, no,
|
||
nothing, nothing big to be concerned about.
|
||
|
||
Nelson:
|
||
Are we going to see you at any of these things like the
|
||
January 7th conference ["An Evening With Bill Cooper," Showboat
|
||
Hotel Sports Pavilion, Las Vegas, Nevada, 5:00 p.m. - 8:00 p.m.,
|
||
$15 per person], or other symposiums in the future?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
I don't think so, no.
|
||
|
||
Nelson:
|
||
Well look, I think you're a very brave man. With that kind of
|
||
an onus on your head, it takes a lot of courage to keep coming
|
||
back to the airwaves. I stand up and cheer as one.
|
||
|
||
Caller:
|
||
How do your magnetohydrodynamics studies relate to the hot
|
||
spots in the earth's magnetic flux, and does that relate to the
|
||
deep-hole theory, the Soviet Union's plan?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
I don't know what the Soviet Union's plan was. I looked at
|
||
it from a power point of view, as producing on a large scale
|
||
plasma-generated energy in a power-plant situation, or producing
|
||
something that would retrofit -- like a coal-fired plant that
|
||
has a lot of waste heat and high-energy plasma.
|
||
|
||
Caller:
|
||
The question is, are you experimenting using the earth's flux?
|
||
|
||
<Continued next message...>
|
||
|
||
--
|
||
Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
|
||
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
|
||
INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f422.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG
|
||
|
||
|
||
|
||
--------------------------------------------------------------------
|
||
|
||
|
||
From: paranet!p0.f422.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin
|
||
Subject: KVEG/Lazar Transcript #18 (Conclusion)
|
||
Date: 28 Dec 89 02:17:00 GMT
|
||
|
||
<...Continued from previous message>
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
No. There's stand-alone high-energy magnets that I use.
|
||
|
||
Caller:
|
||
What is the atomic weight of 115?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
I hate even to guess. I know it because we've written it down
|
||
because we've calculated it, but I really don't remember.
|
||
|
||
Caller:
|
||
Can you give us a ballpark?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
No, 'cause I'd be wrong! Just like if I gave a ballpark on the
|
||
gravitational wave frequency -- and that's really bugging the hell
|
||
out of me.
|
||
|
||
There were three things, as a matter of fact, that for some reason
|
||
I've developed a mental block on. I'll have to call Billy, and
|
||
then he can announce it on the air. I'll just call him and then
|
||
he can relay it to everyone.
|
||
|
||
New Caller:
|
||
I'd like to stand up and cheer for Bob Lazar! It does take a
|
||
lot of courage, and it's about time somebody stepped forward with
|
||
some information that's being kept from us for so long.
|
||
|
||
How long do you think it took them to make their journey here,
|
||
using their methods of propulsion?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
An extremely short time. I'd hesitate to say, but I don't think
|
||
you're even looking at days.
|
||
|
||
Caller:
|
||
Is that because of this gravity lines-of-force thing or because
|
||
time stands still for them and it really does take a long time
|
||
but they don't know it because time stands still?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
No, they're actually traveling almost IN-BETWEEN time because
|
||
of the way that they distort time and space. So that they're
|
||
traveling vast distances without the incrementation of time.
|
||
The time would be very, very little. Days is probably --
|
||
I'm way off saying that, too. But I hate to say something
|
||
and be really far off.
|
||
|
||
Caller:
|
||
Could these aliens be robots and not actually be native beings
|
||
from that galaxy?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
I imagine it's possible. Who knows what actually flew the
|
||
craft, whether or not aliens have ever been in Area S-4
|
||
down there, but it's possible that some automated creature
|
||
flew them. Who knows?
|
||
|
||
Goodman:
|
||
You made a statement when he asked how long it took them
|
||
to get here, and when you were inside the spacecraft itself
|
||
you didn't see any sleeping quarters. So perhaps they just
|
||
start in the morning and they're here in the afternoon;
|
||
it's that simple as far as OUR time goes.
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
If it even takes that long.
|
||
|
||
Barbara:
|
||
When your hypnotherapist, Layne Keck, talked on the air
|
||
about you, did you request that?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
That he talk about me?
|
||
|
||
Barbara:
|
||
Uh huh.
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
No, George Knapp requested that, and then Layne called me to
|
||
find out if it would be okay, and I said yeah, go ahead.
|
||
|
||
Barbara:
|
||
Well, I called the office and that was what I was told,
|
||
and it didn't seem quite --
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
That I requested Layne to go on? No.
|
||
|
||
Barbara:
|
||
That's what the person in the office said.
|
||
|
||
How was your experience there with him? How did you feel
|
||
about your experience?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
As far as what? How I got along with Layne?
|
||
|
||
Barbara:
|
||
No. As far as how you felt comfortable with going back
|
||
to some unpleasant experiences.
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
The emotions came up when you're under hypnosis, and that
|
||
part wasn't exactly pleasant.
|
||
|
||
Barbara:
|
||
How do you feel about it today?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
I feel better. At the time, it wasn't very pleasant.
|
||
But in general, just being under hypnosis is a really
|
||
good feeling.
|
||
|
||
Barbara:
|
||
You have the videotape of that?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Yeah.
|
||
|
||
Barbara:
|
||
It's in your possession?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
I don't want to say where it is, but I know where it is.
|
||
|
||
Barbara:
|
||
I'm going to be doing that because I was with him. So for
|
||
my own personal information, I just wanted to do that,
|
||
because I have good aliens, bad aliens, you know, it runs
|
||
in my family. And there's an extreme reason why I'm going to
|
||
be doing this, so I wanted to clarify that and try to
|
||
make myself . . .Although I can do it on my own, I won't
|
||
go deeper than a certain point.
|
||
|
||
New Caller:
|
||
Is there any limit on the distance a spaceship can travel.
|
||
Can it actually travel out of our galaxy to the Andromeda
|
||
galaxy? How far can 223 grams of Element 115 take you?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
I really don't know. From what I understand, the actual
|
||
consumption of the element is very low; I imagine it is
|
||
possible with enough [junk] made to travel to another galaxy.
|
||
|
||
Caller:
|
||
I assume the gravity wave is more powerful than the
|
||
gamma wave, correct?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Than the GAMMA wave?
|
||
|
||
Caller:
|
||
Or the spectral wave? What's the limit on light waves
|
||
with the 10 billion light years or something -- how far light
|
||
can travel?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
A limit as far as what? It depends on the interaction:
|
||
the gravitational fields the beam passes through, the
|
||
photons pass through, and so on and so forth, so there's
|
||
no real limit at true dead space.
|
||
|
||
As I said last time, and only one person took advantage
|
||
of it, if anyone does have any questions they want to ask
|
||
me, they can write in care of this station. A person called
|
||
earlier and wanted a copy of that newspaper article. I
|
||
have no problem in copying that and sending it to him.
|
||
So just write to the station, whatever the address is.
|
||
|
||
=================================================================
|
||
1220LAZ.UFO
|
||
|
||
Thanks to Robert B. Klinn, ParaNet's Director of Research and Investigation
|
||
for the preparation of this transcript.
|
||
|
||
--
|
||
Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
|
||
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
|
||
INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f422.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG
|
||
|
||
Info-ParaNet Newsletters, Number 117
|
||
|
||
Saturday, December 30th 1989
|
||
|
||
Today's Topics:
|
||
|
||
Harder Transcript (Lazar)
|
||
Reply to "Skeptical Inquirer" - MJ-12
|
||
New Affiliate
|
||
|
||
--------------------------------------------------------------------
|
||
|
||
|
||
From: paranet!p0.f422.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin
|
||
Subject: Harder Transcript (Lazar) #1
|
||
Date: 30 Dec 89 10:44:00 GMT
|
||
|
||
========================================================
|
||
(C) Copyright 1989 ParaNet Information Service
|
||
All Rights Reserved unless copyrighted by Author.
|
||
========================================================
|
||
|
||
Chuck Harder
|
||
Excerpt from: For the People
|
||
Sun Radio Network
|
||
heard on affiliate KROL-AM Radio, Las Vegas, Nevada
|
||
12/[14 ]/89, 10 :00 am - 1:00 p.m.
|
||
|
||
Chuck Harder:
|
||
T.J., hello!
|
||
|
||
TJ:
|
||
I have a couple questions regarding Mr. Lazar and Mr. Knapp, whom
|
||
I'm associated with here in Las Vegas.
|
||
|
||
Harder:
|
||
Bless your heart!
|
||
|
||
TJ:
|
||
I originally heard that that was going to be aired today. I seem
|
||
to think you have some kind of difficulty getting it on?
|
||
|
||
Harder:
|
||
The bottom line is, as you know, Bob Lazar does a lot of
|
||
traveling, and trying to get him to a telephone and get it hooked
|
||
up to us seems to be a problem. And we hope that he will be able
|
||
to get to a pay phone where he would feel comfortable or a phone
|
||
where he would feel comfortable and call the 800 number. And I
|
||
hope we'll be able to get him on.
|
||
|
||
TJ:
|
||
Oh, so you still are going to air that today?
|
||
|
||
Harder:
|
||
We're working on it. I was just talking to George on the break,
|
||
and we're trying to get hooked up with Bob. We have a bit of a
|
||
problem because there's so many doggoned many 800 lines coming
|
||
in, what we may have to do is screen them and apologize to the
|
||
people who are calling 'cause we're looking for Bob, okay?
|
||
|
||
TJ:
|
||
That makes sense.
|
||
|
||
I'm a very good listener to your program through George. I would
|
||
like information to get "For the People," your subscription every
|
||
month.
|
||
|
||
Harder:
|
||
Write to us; enclose a check for $15. We're a non-profit
|
||
organization, so part of that is income tax deductible, and we
|
||
send out a circular telling you how much; I think quite a bit of
|
||
it is if you itemize. Send it to For the People, P.O. Box 101,
|
||
Cedar Key, FL 32625.
|
||
|
||
The next issue of our magazine will be very, very heavy into the
|
||
UFO issue with some closeup color photos of what Bob Lazar calls
|
||
the Sport Model.
|
||
|
||
TJ:
|
||
Right. I'm familiar with that.
|
||
|
||
If I were to subscribe within the next couple of days, would I be
|
||
able to get that particular issue?
|
||
|
||
Harder:
|
||
Yes, but we'll also print some extras, so we'll have them
|
||
available.
|
||
|
||
TJ:
|
||
I heard you and Mr. Andrus speaking about cattle and human
|
||
comparison in blood. The only misstatement I heard -- I've done
|
||
some research into this along with these guys -- from what I
|
||
understand, in a government emergency, the cattle's blood would
|
||
be transferred and made into PLASMA so it could be used for
|
||
humans, a direct transfusion. The chromosomes are almost
|
||
identical in makeup. And they can turn cow's blood into a plasma
|
||
for humans, but that would be it.
|
||
|
||
Harder:
|
||
That's pretty neat, isn't it?
|
||
|
||
TJ:
|
||
Yeah, absolutely.
|
||
|
||
These little guys are coming down and picking them up and
|
||
examining them.
|
||
|
||
Harder:
|
||
Other people say that the cow "squeezings," if you please --
|
||
their squeezing a cow like we would squeeze an orange -- are
|
||
utilized as nourishment.
|
||
|
||
TJ:
|
||
Yeah, they make an enzyme and spread it upon themselves and
|
||
absorb it because their digestive systems are atrophied. That's
|
||
information supplied by Mr. Lear, and I would assume some of that
|
||
through Bob also.
|
||
|
||
Mr. Andrus of MUFON doesn't want to claim that they know where
|
||
the "greys" are from, but yet this information is pretty readily
|
||
available out here in the Southwest. They're supposedly from
|
||
Reticulum 4, just from Zeta Reticuli, just 37 light years from
|
||
the planet Earth.
|
||
|
||
Harder:
|
||
Walt Andrus is a fine, fine gentleman, and you understand he's
|
||
extremely conservative.
|
||
|
||
TJ:
|
||
Oh, I understand that. I didn't really even want to misstate
|
||
myself there. But I guess just being involved with these guys
|
||
down here where we've got all this stuff going on so close that
|
||
sometimes I expect everybody else to have the same information.
|
||
|
||
Harder:
|
||
I'm glad you're passing it on and I welcome this information.
|
||
The thing that we're trying to do right now -- and I'll just come
|
||
out and tell you -- we're trying to make sure that the other
|
||
media has the information. When George Knapp and I spoke for abo
|
||
ut an hour, we transcribed it, and the transcriptions have been
|
||
requested by several different people in the media.
|
||
|
||
And this morning, I even FAXed the transcription to the front
|
||
page editor of the Wall Street Journal because not only did they
|
||
want it but George will readily admit, as I'm sure would Bob, and
|
||
yours truly, that we want them to have it for our own protection.
|
||
Because I feel I've dug a little bit too deep.
|
||
|
||
TJ:
|
||
Oh yeah, I'm sure. I'm surprised George hasn't been hassled more
|
||
than he has because he's at the forefront of the media with most
|
||
of this [relevant] information. He's done an outstanding job
|
||
here locally.
|
||
|
||
Harder:
|
||
Well, I understand that George has had his own problems. And he
|
||
has told me what I feel what might be a tip of the iceberg. And
|
||
he was on the air with us yesterday.
|
||
|
||
But I feel that for the protection of Bob Lazar and of George
|
||
Knapp and KLAS-TV and everybody else who's been involved, I
|
||
think that the rest of America needs to know.
|
||
|
||
TJ:
|
||
Oh absolutely. I've even been out to this area -- the Area 51 --
|
||
on [viewing it from] public land, and observed -- from
|
||
information from George -- on where to go, where to stand, and
|
||
when to stand to see these things when they were testing them out
|
||
there before they moved them.
|
||
|
||
And he's right on the money! They were there! They're no longer
|
||
there, but they WERE there. They moved them deeper into the Test
|
||
Site to an area called Area 10, to the best of my information
|
||
through a couple of MY sources out at the Nevada Test Site.
|
||
|
||
Harder:
|
||
Where are the aliens now?
|
||
|
||
TJ:
|
||
Aliens? I can't tell you. I don't know anything about aliens
|
||
from what I'm seeing. I'm talking about the recovered material
|
||
that they had at S-4 out at Area 51 -- the disks. But the best
|
||
of our information at this point is that was moved from that area
|
||
and deeper into a site, deeper into the Test Site that they call
|
||
Area 10.
|
||
|
||
So it's just because it got to the point that when they were
|
||
running the tests, they had everybody locally interested in UFOs
|
||
at one point; I mean they even chartered buses and drove up to
|
||
the area to stand on public land and wait to watch for the tests.
|
||
|
||
Obviously, the Governmment got a little upset at that. And they
|
||
shut the highways down, as a matter of fact, which is probably
|
||
not public information. They shut down two highways that run
|
||
right by the Test Site, for a weekend. One was Highway 375; the
|
||
other was Highway 318; and they shut them completely down, and
|
||
they did a massive amount of moving in that area at that time.
|
||
They were using diesel trucks marked with Piggly Wiggly and some
|
||
other supermarket chains to transfer a lot of their equipment.
|
||
|
||
Harder:
|
||
Why won't they tell us, TJ?
|
||
|
||
TJ:
|
||
It depends on whose line you really want to believe. I've been
|
||
investigating since 1980, and not that I'm that crack of an
|
||
investigator. I am a police officer. I have learned how to
|
||
investigate. But Mr. Lear probably has a pretty good foundation
|
||
on a lot what's going on. A lot of people don't choose or care
|
||
to believe what he's saying.
|
||
|
||
Harder:
|
||
His material, by the way, will be in our next magazine -- his
|
||
public material.
|
||
|
||
TJ:
|
||
Great! I'm sure that it's going to startle a lot of people
|
||
because if you subscribe to Mr. Lear's line of thought, then
|
||
we're in a lot of serious trouble. It's to the point that the
|
||
Government, and the Government has no control over what's going
|
||
on, and they made a false treaty with them, because they knew
|
||
they were going to go ahead and do what they wanted to do anyway.
|
||
And I guess we were trying to make some technology advances out
|
||
of it, and our government got greedy again at that point.
|
||
|
||
And I'm sure -- I don't want to step on Mr. Lazar or George's
|
||
information -- I'm sure they're going to want to get this stuff
|
||
out about when they had a conflict out here. Mr. Lazar allegedly
|
||
replaced a scientist that was killed by the aliens out at the
|
||
Test Site; and that's how he got involved in the program. But I
|
||
don't know a lot about that myself; I can only go by what I've
|
||
been told by these guys; and I'm sure they want to elaborate on
|
||
that.
|
||
|
||
Harder:
|
||
Well, the information has reached us from many, many, many
|
||
different sources, from people who want no money. They don't
|
||
even want to be identified. And they have no reason to give us
|
||
the information, and yet from 10, 15, 20, 30 different sources,
|
||
we get the same information.
|
||
|
||
First of all, we thought it was rumor and it was the same story
|
||
going around. We tried to track it down further, and we found
|
||
out, no, it wasn't the same story. So it's fascinating.
|
||
|
||
TJ:
|
||
It's definitely that. And living this close to whatever they've
|
||
got going on out at the Test Site where they're testing the
|
||
disks, it's pretty phenomenal to be able to --
|
||
|
||
Even at one point earlier in the year, I mean they stopped
|
||
testing out there, as far as anybody could tell, probably in
|
||
September, because it just got too public at that point. Even
|
||
August may have been the last tests.
|
||
|
||
But we -- there was a group of people -- in fact, I was out there
|
||
with a photojournalist that got some photos one of the nights we
|
||
were out there.
|
||
|
||
We had them developed, and you can't see disks, but what you can
|
||
see are orange tracers in the sky -- I mean pretty elaborate
|
||
orange tracers from the fact that this thing MOVED over quite a
|
||
distance during just the snapping in the shutter. It left bright
|
||
orange streaks across the photographs. It's pretty interesting
|
||
stuff.
|
||
|
||
Harder:
|
||
The abductions, I think, are something that's going to get the
|
||
attention of America. Why they are taking us. Where I live, the
|
||
synchronicity of the incidents is very, very fascinating. Just
|
||
recently, we had a family disappear. They were camping on a
|
||
little island out in the Gulf of Mexico; they disappeared.
|
||
Everything was found but them.
|
||
|
||
We had a commercial fisherman disappear; a lot of fishermen are
|
||
afraid to go out in ther Gulf.
|
||
|
||
Not too far north of here we had other people disappear. We've
|
||
had cattle mutilations right nearby. So there's been a lot going
|
||
on. And a tremendous amount of UFO sightings, and a lot of
|
||
little newspapers around here have run articles about strange
|
||
lights in the sky. You know, afraid to run the article, but they
|
||
just had to run them. So they ran them with, "Gee, what's going
|
||
on? What is that? We don't know. Nobody will tell us."
|
||
|
||
And you start clipping these things and you put them all together
|
||
and you go, what's going on?
|
||
|
||
TJ:
|
||
Once you get into researching, it's blatantly obvious that
|
||
there's something going on. It leaves you no room for any type
|
||
of doubt that there actually are some type of extraterrestrial
|
||
visitors here. The evidence is overwhelming.
|
||
|
||
Other than the fact that if we were to send a flying saucer down
|
||
on the lawn of the White House, it's going to take an awful lot
|
||
to get the Government to admit anything. They're so involved
|
||
they've got their hands bloodied over the whole thing. There's
|
||
been people disappear, people even murdered over all this. So
|
||
it's obvious that they're not going to come clean on it. The
|
||
issue is going to have to be forced. There's no other way to
|
||
look at it. That's my opinion.
|
||
|
||
Harder:
|
||
TJ, thanks for calling up.
|
||
|
||
=================================================================
|
||
1214HARD.UFO
|
||
|
||
--
|
||
Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
|
||
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
|
||
INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f422.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG
|
||
|
||
From: paranet!p0.f422.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin
|
||
Subject: KLAS/Lazar Transcript #1
|
||
Date: 30 Dec 89 10:26:00 GMT
|
||
|
||
========================================================
|
||
(C) Copyright 1989 ParaNet Information Service
|
||
All Rights Reserved unless copyrighted by Author.
|
||
========================================================
|
||
|
||
On the Record, KLAS-TV, Las Vegas, Nevada, 12/9/89, 7:00 p.m.-
|
||
7:30 p.m.
|
||
|
||
George Knapp, producer/host
|
||
Robert Lazar, guest
|
||
|
||
George Knapp:
|
||
Hello, and welcome to On the Record.
|
||
|
||
One month ago, we began a series of reports about UFOs. With the
|
||
exception of a few cranky newspaper people, the response has been
|
||
overwhelmingly positive. We've had requests for more information
|
||
from all over the country and from all over the world. Tonight
|
||
we're going to delve a little deeper into the subject with the
|
||
man who was the impetus for our report in the first place, Bob
|
||
Lazar.
|
||
|
||
Bob, good to have you here. A thumbnail sketch of yourself for
|
||
those who might not be familiar with your background.
|
||
|
||
Robert Lazar:
|
||
I worked at Los Alamos National Lab.
|
||
|
||
Knapp:
|
||
As a physicist?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
As a physicist, and hired as a senior staff physicist at Area S-
|
||
4, for what I was told anyway was the United States Navy.
|
||
|
||
Knapp:
|
||
Where is S-4?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
It's about 10 to 15 miles south of Groom Lake, about 125 miles
|
||
north of Las Vegas.
|
||
|
||
Knapp:
|
||
How did you get the job?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
I really don't want to mention the guy who I got it through. But
|
||
I was referred to a person at EG&G to drop off my resume to;
|
||
that's where I was interviewed; though the job is COMPLETELY
|
||
unrelated to EG&G.
|
||
|
||
Knapp:
|
||
What did they tell you you were going to be doing? Or DID they
|
||
tell you?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
No, they really didn't tell me until the very end. They said a
|
||
high-technology job, something that I'd be very interested in.
|
||
|
||
Knapp:
|
||
Okay, so you get hired. And what happens? Do you fly up there?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Fly up there. First day was reading briefings and that sort of
|
||
thing. And it became evident to me pretty quickly the level of
|
||
technology they were dealing with: gravitational propulsion and
|
||
things that science has really only barely touched on.
|
||
|
||
Knapp:
|
||
We'll get into the things that you saw in a couple of minutes.
|
||
But it's been about a little more than three weeks since your
|
||
identity was made public. We had you on another program a couple
|
||
of months ago -- using an assumed name and having you in
|
||
silhouette -- but since your identity has been made public and
|
||
since this information has been made public, what's it been like?
|
||
What's been the response from people that see you on the street?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
The response has been almost all favorable. In fact, everyone
|
||
that I've run into has been very supportive, very interested. I
|
||
guess there's just two or three letters --
|
||
|
||
Knapp:
|
||
-- from people that don't believe you?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Yeah. Essentially.
|
||
|
||
Knapp:
|
||
Responses from other media outlets as well?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Yeah.
|
||
|
||
Knapp:
|
||
They want to interview you? What do they want?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Essentially everything, yes. Radio interviews, TV interviews. A
|
||
lot of people want to dig back into my background and re-trace
|
||
everything.
|
||
|
||
Knapp:
|
||
Many of the people who have been calling -- calling us as well --
|
||
were under the impression that either you've gone underground or
|
||
you've been silenced or we've been silenced by dark and sinister
|
||
forces. Anything like that happen to you so far?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
That's ridiculous. People are always going over the deep end on
|
||
that. And no one's told me -- other than originally -- not to
|
||
say anything. And I'm sure no one's come forward to you.
|
||
|
||
Knapp:
|
||
But in the beginning, they told you to keep quiet about this.
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Oh yeah! It's the most secret program in the United States.
|
||
|
||
Knapp:
|
||
In what way did they try to make sure you kept your mouth shut?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Everything up to death threats. I mean CONSTANT reminders of it,
|
||
signing away my constututional rights for fair trial and that
|
||
sort of thing.
|
||
|
||
Knapp:
|
||
And since this thing, your phone's been tapped, you believe?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Yeah, I believe. I have a tap detector, and occasionally after I
|
||
pick up the phone, a little red light goes on.
|
||
|
||
Knapp:
|
||
The reason you came forward with the information to begin with?
|
||
Is it related to the fact that they were bothering you?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Yeah, it was essentially to stop that. What had happened was, I
|
||
sent in a request for my birth certificate, and as it turned out
|
||
it wasn't there anymore, that I wasn't born at the hospital! And
|
||
that kind of got me wondering what's going on. I put in a
|
||
request for some other information, previous jobs, and that was
|
||
also gone, and I thought something had to be done before I
|
||
disappeared.
|
||
|
||
Knapp:
|
||
The same thing -- it was Los Alamos? They've never heard of you?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Yeah.
|
||
|
||
Knapp:
|
||
Anything happened since the reports have aired?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
They let me know that they were around by doing stupid, childish
|
||
little things. But nothing serious, no.
|
||
|
||
Knapp:
|
||
You were worried about your LIFE though for a while there,
|
||
weren't you?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
That was one of the reasons to come on and let everything out on
|
||
the air; it's a little of insurance.
|
||
|
||
Knapp:
|
||
Are you worried any more? Do you get the feeling you're over the
|
||
hump?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
To some degree, yeah.
|
||
|
||
Knapp:
|
||
Do you find that most people really believe you or that they just
|
||
want more information?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
I think alot of people believe what I said, but the majority I
|
||
think do just want more information, too. It's an in-depth
|
||
subject.
|
||
|
||
Knapp:
|
||
Let's look at some of the technology you saw. When did you first
|
||
get the idea, what's the first thing you saw that made you
|
||
convinced that it's not from here?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
The first thing was HANDS-on experience with the anti-matter
|
||
reactor.
|
||
|
||
Knapp:
|
||
Explain what that is and how it works and what it does.
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
It's a plate about 18 inches in diameter with a sphere on top.
|
||
|
||
Knapp:
|
||
We have a tape of a model that a friend of yours made. You can
|
||
narrate along. There it is.
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Inside that tower is a chip of Element 115 they just put in
|
||
there. That's a super-heavy element. The lid goes on top.
|
||
|
||
And as far as any other of the workings of it, I really don't
|
||
know, you know, [such as] what's inside the bottom of it . . .
|
||
|
||
115 sets up a gravitational field around the top. That little
|
||
wave guide you saw being put on the top: it essentially siphons
|
||
off the gravity wave, and that's later amplified in the lower
|
||
portion of the craft.
|
||
|
||
But just in general, the whole technology is virtually unknown.
|
||
|
||
Knapp:
|
||
Now we saw the model. We saw the pictures of it there. It looks
|
||
really, really simple, almost too simple to actually do anything.
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Right.
|
||
|
||
Knapp:
|
||
Working parts?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
None detectable. Essentially, what the job was was to back-
|
||
engineer everthing, where you have a finished product and to step
|
||
backwards and find out how it was made or how it could be made
|
||
with earthly materials. There hasn't been very much progress.
|
||
|
||
Knapp:
|
||
How long do you think they've had this technology up there?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
It seems like quite a while, but I really don't know.
|
||
|
||
Knapp:
|
||
What could you do with an anti-matter generator? What does it
|
||
do?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
It converts anti-matter . . .
|
||
It DOESN'T convert anti-matter! There's an annihilation
|
||
reaction. It's an extremely powerful reaction, a hundred percent
|
||
conversion of matter to energy, unlike a fission or fusion
|
||
reaction which is somewhere around eight-tenths of one percent
|
||
conversion
|
||
of matter to energy.
|
||
|
||
Knapp:
|
||
How does it work? What starts the reaction going?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Really, once the 115 is put in, the reaction is initiated.
|
||
|
||
Knapp:
|
||
Automatic.
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Right.
|
||
|
||
Knapp:
|
||
I don't understand. I mean, there's no button to push or
|
||
anything?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
No, there's no button to push or anything.
|
||
|
||
Apparently, the 115 under bombardment with protons lets out an
|
||
anti-matter particle. This anti-matter particle will react with
|
||
any matter whatsoever, which I imagine there is some target
|
||
system inside the reactor. This, in turn, releases heat, and
|
||
somewhere within that system there is a one-hundred-percent-
|
||
efficient thermionic generator, essentially a heat-to-electrical
|
||
generator.
|
||
|
||
Knapp:
|
||
How is this anti-matter reactor connected to gravity generation
|
||
that you were talking about earlier?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Well, that reactor serves two purposes; it provides a tremendous
|
||
amount of electrical power, which is almost a by-product. The
|
||
gravitational wave gets formed at the sphere, and that's through
|
||
some action of the 115, and the exact action I don't think anyone
|
||
really knows.
|
||
|
||
The wave guide siphons off that gravity wave, and that's
|
||
channeled above the top of the disk to the lower part where there
|
||
are three gravity amplifiers, which amplify and direct that
|
||
gravity wave.
|
||
|
||
Knapp:
|
||
In essence creating their own gravitational field.
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Their own gravitational field.
|
||
|
||
Knapp:
|
||
You're fairly convinced that science on earth doesn't have this
|
||
technology right now? We have it now at S-4, I guess, but we
|
||
didn't create it?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Right.
|
||
|
||
Knapp:
|
||
Why not? Why couldn't we?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
The technology's not even -- We don't even know what gravity IS!
|
||
|
||
Knapp:
|
||
Well, what is it? What have you learned about what gravity is?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Gravity is a wave. There are many different theories, wave
|
||
included. It's been theorized that gravity is also particles,
|
||
gravitons, which is also incorrect. But gravity is a wave. The
|
||
basic wave they can actually tap off of an element: why that is
|
||
I'm not exactly sure.
|
||
|
||
Knapp:
|
||
So you can produce your own gravity. What does that mean? What
|
||
does that allow you to do?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
It allows you to do virtually anything. Gravity distorts time
|
||
and space. By doing that, now you're into a different mode of
|
||
travel, where instead of traveling in a linear method -- going
|
||
from Point A to B -- now you can distort time and space to where
|
||
you essentially bring the mountain to Mohammad; you almost bring
|
||
your destination to you without moving.
|
||
|
||
And since you're distorting time, all this takes place in between
|
||
moments of time. It's such a far-fetched concept!
|
||
|
||
Knapp:
|
||
Of course, what the UFO skeptics say is, yeah, there's life out
|
||
there elsewhere in the universe; it can never come here; it's
|
||
just too darn far. With the kind of technology you're talking
|
||
about, it makes such considerations irrelevant about distance and
|
||
time and things like that.
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Exactly, because when you are distorting time, there's no longer
|
||
a normal reference of time. And that's what producing your own
|
||
gravity does.
|
||
|
||
Knapp:
|
||
You can go forward or backward in time? Is that's what you're
|
||
saying?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
No, not essentially. It would be easier with a model. On the
|
||
bottom side of the disk are the three gravity generators. When
|
||
they want to travel to a distant point, the disk turns on its
|
||
side. The three gravity generators produce a gravitational beam.
|
||
What they do is they converge the three gravity generators onto
|
||
a point and use that as a focal point; and they bring them up to
|
||
power and PULL that point towards the disk. The disk itself will
|
||
attach ONTO that point and snap back -- AS THEY RELEASE SPACE
|
||
BACK TO THAT POINT!
|
||
|
||
Now all this happens in the distortion of time, so time is not
|
||
incrementing. So the SPEED is essentially infinite.
|
||
|
||
Knapp:
|
||
We'll get into the disks in a moment. But the first time you saw
|
||
the anti-matter reactor in operation or a demonstration -- you
|
||
had a couple of demonstrations -- tell me about that.
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
The first time I saw it in operation, we just put -- a friend I
|
||
worked with, Barry -- put the fuel in the reactor, put the lid on
|
||
as, as was shown there.
|
||
|
||
Immediately, a gravitational field developed, and he said, "Feel
|
||
it!" And it felt like you bring two like poles of a magnet
|
||
together; you can do that with your hand. And it was FASCINATING
|
||
to do that, impossible, except on something with great mass! And
|
||
obviously this is just a . . .
|
||
|
||
And it was a REPULSION field. In fact, we kind of fooled around
|
||
with it for a little while. And we threw golf balls off it. And
|
||
it was just a really unique thing.
|
||
|
||
Knapp:
|
||
And you had other demonstrations to show you that this is pretty
|
||
wild stuff, right?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Yeah, they did. They were able to channel the field off in a
|
||
demonstration that they created an INTENSE gravitational area.
|
||
And you began to see a small little black disk form, and that was
|
||
the bending of the light.
|
||
|
||
Knapp:
|
||
Just like a black hole floating around?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Yeah, well, a black hole is a bad analogy, but yeah, essentially.
|
||
|
||
Knapp:
|
||
And they gave you some kind of demonstration about time,
|
||
involving a candle? Explain how that works.
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Yeah, they took a candle and lit it and put it in the distorted
|
||
gravitational field, which distorts time, and the candle just
|
||
stood there. It didn't melt or burn. It was REALLY
|
||
unbelievable!
|
||
|
||
Knapp:
|
||
You had to be floored by seeing all this.
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Oh I was! That's why I'm kind of laughing about it now because
|
||
it must sound ridiculous to everyone. But it's just phenomenal.
|
||
I mean this is really alien technology.
|
||
|
||
Knapp:
|
||
About the 115: We talked a little bit about it in the series of
|
||
reports. Explain what it is again and why you believe it could
|
||
not be manufactured here.
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Okay, it's a super-heavy element: On the periodic chart, which
|
||
lists all the elements found on earth and that can be
|
||
synthesized, I think the highest element we've synthesized has
|
||
been about Element 106.
|
||
|
||
Now from 103 -- or actually, anything higher than plutonium up --
|
||
the half-life begins to drop; in other words, the element
|
||
disintegrates. When you get up to Element 106, it's only around
|
||
for a very small amount of time. Even science today theorizes
|
||
that up around Element 113 to 116 -- somewhere in there -- they
|
||
should again become stable. This is in fact true. That's what
|
||
Element 115 is; it's a stable element.
|
||
|
||
To synthesize it would be impossible. The way we synthesize
|
||
heavy elements is, we take a stable element like bismuth or
|
||
something like that, or plutionium, whatever, put it in an
|
||
accelerator, and BOMBARD it with protons. Essentially what
|
||
you're trying to do is plug in protons into the atoms and
|
||
increase the atomic number. To do that to the level of Element
|
||
115 would just take an infinite amount of power and an infinite
|
||
amount of time.
|
||
|
||
Knapp:
|
||
What kinds of things, what capabilities would a heavy element
|
||
like this have -- I mean other than producing power? Obviously,
|
||
it can produce a LOT of power, right?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
It in itself is not anti-matter. It just has a unique property
|
||
of producing it. Any of the other basic properties it has I
|
||
really don't know of. But using just the anti-matter-producing
|
||
property, the potential for a weapon is staggering! It's
|
||
absolutely staggering!
|
||
|
||
Knapp:
|
||
Like what? A pound of it: what could it do?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Well, 2.2 pounds is the energy equivalent of 47 10-megaton
|
||
hydrogen bombs. I mean, it's a good bang! And a pound of a
|
||
super-heavy element is maybe the size of a plum or something like
|
||
that.
|
||
|
||
Knapp:
|
||
I guess what I've heard most from people who just don't buy the
|
||
whole story is that sure, maybe you work at an area called S-4,
|
||
and maybe it is a secret area, but what you were shown is stuff
|
||
that we've made. That we made this 115 -- if it is 115 -- that
|
||
we made the flying disks, that we made these anti-matter
|
||
reactors, because these are advances that you just don't know
|
||
about.
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Hardly.
|
||
[Lazar laughs.]
|
||
|
||
Knapp:
|
||
Why not?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Well, the 115, it's impossible. And the FACT that the main job
|
||
of everyone there is to find out how everything's made; I mean
|
||
that just contradicts everything right off the bat. The
|
||
materials are completely alien to us, and just the overall idea
|
||
of the project is: Hey, can we duplicate this with materials
|
||
that we have here? So obviously, it was something that was found
|
||
or given, for that matter, and we're just trying to duplicate it.
|
||
|
||
Knapp:
|
||
The 115: Where do you suppose it came from then? I mean, what
|
||
kind of environment would that kind of element come from?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
The only place that 115 could be made would have to be in a
|
||
natural situation, somewhere maybe on the fringes of a supernova
|
||
or somewhere around maybe a binary star system, where there was
|
||
more mass in the primordial mix of that system, where heavier
|
||
elements would have had a chance to form, when the stars were
|
||
collapsing and there were huge amounts of energy being released.
|
||
It's something along these lines; it has to be a naturally-
|
||
occurring element.
|
||
|
||
Knapp:
|
||
You saw an anti-matter reactor. You saw gravity-propulsion
|
||
systems in flying disks, flying saucers. You saw this Element
|
||
115. You also read a series of reports that had other stunning
|
||
information. Can you give an overview of the kind of things that
|
||
were in these reports?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
The reason I didn't do that before was, first of all they were
|
||
just reports. Everything else I had hands-on experience with.
|
||
|
||
Now there was LOTS of strange information in the reports, but
|
||
there again it's just printed material and it could be
|
||
disinformation. I don't know. But certainly, the information I
|
||
did read in the reports about 115, the disks, the grav -- I mean,
|
||
that all had material that related to that.
|
||
|
||
The reports went into aliens and even went along the lines of
|
||
religious --
|
||
|
||
Knapp:
|
||
Well, we can let our audience know. I mean we discussed this,
|
||
when we were putting this series of reports together, whether to
|
||
get into the alien thing or not, and we decided not to for the
|
||
time being. It's not like you're hiding something from the
|
||
audience or whatever, it was just a decision we made. But you
|
||
did see reports -- whether they're true or not -- Government
|
||
reports about aliens.
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Yeah.
|
||
|
||
Knapp:
|
||
What were the reports?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
There were photographs of aliens. There were autopsy reports.
|
||
There was really a wealth of information.
|
||
|
||
Knapp:
|
||
What did they look like?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
The typical "grey." I hate to say that, like anyone knows what a
|
||
typical grey is. It's a creature, probably three and a half to
|
||
four feet tall, a large hairless head, black, slanted eyes, long
|
||
arms, very thin-looking. I don't know how else I would describe
|
||
them.
|
||
|
||
Knapp:
|
||
What does an autopsy report look like? What's included in an
|
||
autopsy report that you said you read?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
The reason I call it an autopsy report is I saw the carcass -- it
|
||
was obviously a dead alien -- carcass cut up and it was all dark
|
||
inside like it had an iron base. The reason I say iron is
|
||
because it was very dark blood or whatever. I'm not a doctor,
|
||
but it seemed to be one large organ in the body as opposed to
|
||
identifiable heart and lungs and that sort of thing, but just one
|
||
gooey mess in it.
|
||
|
||
Knapp:
|
||
What did the report say? It had pictures; it had to have some
|
||
words: "Here's Exhibit A, an alien"?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Essentially so! They had weights and densities of the organs,
|
||
said there were no conclusions drawn, but it was just a basic
|
||
description of what the person who was cutting open the body saw.
|
||
|
||
Knapp:
|
||
Say where they came from?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Yeah, in one of the reports it said they came from Reticulum 4,
|
||
was what it said.
|
||
|
||
Knapp:
|
||
Where is that? Any idea?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
[Lazar laughs.]
|
||
Well, I'm told it's a star system in Zeta Reticuli. Reticulum is
|
||
the constellation.
|
||
|
||
And by "Reticulum 4," they meant the fourth planet out from that
|
||
sun.
|
||
|
||
In the same reports, we were identified -- instead of saying
|
||
Earth, we were identified as "Sol 3," meaning the third planet
|
||
out from our sun.
|
||
|
||
Knapp:
|
||
Now you've read a lot of UFO material. Do you find yourself
|
||
mixing what you've read and what you've learned from up there?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
No, that's why I stay away from the UFO researchers and things
|
||
like that. I really don't want to be associated with that. I
|
||
don't research the stuff. It's interesting to read, but no, I'm
|
||
not mixing anything that I've read into this stuff.
|
||
|
||
Knapp:
|
||
We were just talking about the UFO field in general, and you feel
|
||
a little reluctant to get mixed up in it, although you ARE right
|
||
now.
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Unfortunately, yeah.
|
||
|
||
Knapp:
|
||
Why the reluctance?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
I don't know. There are so MANY stories circulating around.
|
||
Everyone has their own view. Each UFO researcher says they have
|
||
the right story. And essentially, I don't want to side with
|
||
anyone because I don't know where that information's come from,
|
||
though they do all have the basic story: you know, there ARE
|
||
alien crafts here; how they got here is, probably aliens brought
|
||
them here, unless we really have a neat setup with the UPS.
|
||
|
||
There's just so many different factions of them [UFO
|
||
researchers], and they all kind of war between each other; I
|
||
really don't want to get associated with them.
|
||
|
||
Knapp:
|
||
Before you got into the program at S-4, though, you had an
|
||
interest in UFOs. It must be hard for people to swallow that
|
||
here's a guy who has an interest in it and he gets hired into the
|
||
program.
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Well, there was a very brief time there I had sent out resumes to
|
||
several places, and I wanted to get back into the scientific
|
||
field again. Almost simultaneously, I met John Lear and read
|
||
some of his material. And initially, I thought he was just
|
||
absolutely crazy. But apparently, he did have a good source of
|
||
information because, as it turns out, some of the information
|
||
that he had I actually had hands-on experience with.
|
||
|
||
Knapp:
|
||
But your regard for UFOs in general: As a scientist, did you
|
||
think there was something to it?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Absolutely not.
|
||
|
||
Knapp:
|
||
Absolutely nothing?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
No. I would have stood on that 'til the day I died.
|
||
|
||
Knapp:
|
||
Many of the people who have been calling are UFO groups or UFO
|
||
researchers who have demanded that you talk to them: We've got
|
||
to talk to this guy; we want to give him a lot more publicity so
|
||
he stays alive; we want him to give us information so that we can
|
||
further check out his background, etc.; we want to protect him;
|
||
we want to help him.
|
||
|
||
You've resisted. You've done this program; you've done a couple
|
||
of reports with us; and you've done a radio show or two; in
|
||
general, you've resisted going into the UFO circuit. Why is
|
||
that?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Just like I mentioned before: I just don't want to be associated
|
||
with those guys.
|
||
|
||
And how many people are you going to open up your background to
|
||
and let them run rampant through it? I mean, private detectives,
|
||
every UFO group in the world wants to do that! The idea was for
|
||
me to release the information, essentially to protect myself and
|
||
take some of the heat off. And I've done that. And that's all
|
||
that needs to be done, really.
|
||
|
||
Knapp:
|
||
Certain UFO researchers claim they've been getting information
|
||
from you all along; you've been leaking stuff to them; and that
|
||
they've read these reports that verify the information. You've
|
||
been working with UFO groups while you were in the program at S-
|
||
4?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Not UFO groups. I did mention a couple of things to some people.
|
||
That's all I'm gonna say.
|
||
|
||
Knapp:
|
||
Okay. In essence, were you breaking your vows that you made to
|
||
the Government?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Yeah.
|
||
|
||
Knapp:
|
||
And why did you feel that was necessary? I mean, you took an
|
||
oath, didn't you?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Yeah. But look at the magnitude of what was going on. I believe
|
||
that some of the technology -- maybe all of the technology --
|
||
should be kept secret, until we have a handle on everything. But
|
||
certainly, the overview of what happened just cannot be a secret
|
||
from anyone -- not just the American people, but the rest of the
|
||
world.
|
||
|
||
Let out the basic fact that we have these craft, at one time
|
||
aliens did at least visit and drop off something, however they
|
||
got here, that there was some contact made, and then cut it
|
||
short. You don't need to release the information on the gravity
|
||
generators, the weapon potential -- which is enormous -- and so
|
||
on.
|
||
|
||
Knapp:
|
||
What could you do with that technology? Say you took the flying
|
||
disks, the anti-matter reactors, the gravity generators, gave it
|
||
to Los Alamos or Livermore, let them examine the potential
|
||
abilities of this stuff. I mean, how would this affect life on
|
||
earth if this stuff was widely available?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
And mass-producable?
|
||
|
||
Knapp:
|
||
Yes.
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
That's tough to say. I mean, you have a completely different
|
||
mode of travel. What happens when you can play with time? That
|
||
gets into a really deep philosophical question there.
|
||
|
||
Knapp:
|
||
But I mean, it would change a lot of stuff, change everything.
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Oh yeah! It would change absolutely everything!
|
||
|
||
Knapp:
|
||
Do you think it will ever come out?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
Personally, no.
|
||
|
||
Knapp:
|
||
What do you hope happens, both with yourself and with this
|
||
information?
|
||
|
||
Lazar:
|
||
There's been enough thorns put in their toes to where they do try
|
||
and release something.
|
||
|
||
Knapp:
|
||
We'll have to have you come back, Bob. Thanks for joining us.
|
||
|
||
=================================================================
|
||
1209LAZ.UFO
|
||
|
||
--
|
||
Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
|
||
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
|
||
INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f422.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG
|
||
======================================================================
|
||
|
||
FILE ORIGINATES FROM: <<UFONET I>>
|
||
UPLOADED BY: Tom Mickus
|
||
DATE OF UPLOAD: JAN/08/1990
|
||
|
||
======================================================================
|
||
======================================================================
|
||
|
||
LAZAR9.TXT [ **] Billy Goodman interviewed on the Phone
|
||
|
||
======================================================================
|
||
======================================================================
|
||
|
||
NOTE: Late December, 1989 phone interview between Billy Goodman
|
||
of Las Vegas based KVEG Radio, and Grant Cameron, UFO
|
||
researcher from Winnipeg, Canada. Goodman is recently
|
||
known for his nightly 3-hr radio program, "Billy Goodman's
|
||
Happening". Cameron is co-author of the soon to be publicly
|
||
released, "UFOs, MJ-12 & THE GOVERNMENT", a report centering
|
||
around the activities of a prominent Penn State President.
|
||
|
||
=======================================================================
|
||
=======================================================================
|
||
|
||
|
||
<CAMERON>: "I wanted to quickly ask you about this Mr. Lazar,
|
||
you've had this guy on your show a number of times?
|
||
|
||
<GOODMAN>: "I certainly have yes."
|
||
|
||
<CAMERON>: "What's your gut feeling on this guy?"
|
||
|
||
<GOODMAN>: "My gut feeling?"
|
||
|
||
<CAMERON>: "Ya."
|
||
|
||
<GOODMAN>: "He's telling the truth."
|
||
|
||
<CAMERON>: "Is that right?"
|
||
|
||
<GOODMAN>: "Oh, ya. I probably shouldn't say that word - telling
|
||
truth. As far as I'm concerned, what he has said and
|
||
he has been on my show twice, and I've talked about it
|
||
wide open and nobody has disputed it. I have to go by
|
||
the...nobody has disputed it. It's been all over the
|
||
west coast. My show goes into ten states. If people
|
||
had any desire to dispute it they could have. No one
|
||
has. Other people have confirmed it. Some people say,
|
||
"Ya they know about it". They are saying it very non-
|
||
chalant."
|
||
|
||
<CAMERON>: "You have other people who have worked there?"
|
||
|
||
<GOODMAN>: "They are very nonchalant saying they know there is
|
||
activity there."
|
||
|
||
<CAMERON>: "Some of your tapes are circulating around, and a lot of
|
||
researchers are now working on this case."
|
||
|
||
<GOODMAN>: "Terrific. Let them circulate and let them contact me
|
||
personally and we can go from there, but you've called
|
||
me when I'm in the middle of about 9 different things.
|
||
I'm producing a special. You talk about a tape that is
|
||
going to circulate. I'll probably have the best show of
|
||
the entire year coming up New Years Eve. I'm going to
|
||
have the Best of Bob Lazar, the Best of Bill Cooper, and
|
||
the Best of Virgil Armstrong. This is going to be a tape
|
||
that the world is going to want. All of their inside
|
||
information."
|
||
|
||
<CAMERON>: "Is there anyway I can get a copy of this tape?"
|
||
|
||
<GOODMAN>: "I can give you a number. It's area code 702-564-4404.
|
||
I call the man Rodger the Dodger, but his name is Roger.
|
||
And he tapes every one of my Happenings. He has copies
|
||
of everyone of my Happenings going all the way back to
|
||
August. He can run down who we have had on, basically
|
||
what was discussed, what really outstanding information
|
||
was revealed. He has it all down pretty good - more so
|
||
that I have. So you are a UFO researcher?"
|
||
|
||
<CAMERON>: "We're dealing in a paper that deals with a very high
|
||
ranking Navy person that we are going to expose. It
|
||
will be published in 30 to 60 days."
|
||
|
||
<GOODMAN>: "Why are you going to expose him?"
|
||
|
||
<CAMERON>: "He's former President of Penn State."
|
||
|
||
<GOODMAN>: "But why do you want to expose him?"
|
||
|
||
<CAMERON>: "We want to prove there is something to this."
|
||
|
||
<GOODMAN>: "Great. Oh there's something to it my friend. What are
|
||
you talking about. We had over 200 people up in the
|
||
middle of the desert that saw it."
|
||
|
||
<CAMERON>: "You were at the test? You were on the Special?"
|
||
|
||
<GOODMAN>: "That's where I was."
|
||
|
||
<CAMERON>: "On the KLAS Special?"
|
||
|
||
<GOODMAN>: "That was me. You can imagine what we were doing up there.
|
||
We had over 200 people. You saw the busload of people.
|
||
We are talking about a lot of listeners that don't imagine
|
||
things. I'm talking about doctors and lawyers. We had
|
||
policeman there too. There's no fabrication here. Every-
|
||
body saw it."
|
||
|
||
<CAMERON>: "Have you done any pressing to get any statements from
|
||
anybody? From Groom Lake or Nellis?"
|
||
|
||
<GOODMAN>: "I've had them on my show. They're on tape with what they
|
||
saw. I've had callers policeman say, "I can't say anymore
|
||
but I was there and I saw it." It's all over the tapes.
|
||
As far as written form, no. I don't do that kind of thing."
|
||
|
||
<CAMERON>: "I was meaning the officials. They must be denying this?"
|
||
|
||
<GOODMAN>: "Well of course they're denying it. Well theirs no denying
|
||
it. No one's denying a thing. What are you talking about?
|
||
There has not been one denial. We had Senator Bryant on
|
||
here - the Senator of Nevada. He didn't deny it. He says
|
||
he can't talk about it. That's what their answer is. The
|
||
Undersecretary of Defence said its too Top Secret to even
|
||
discuss what's going on up there. Your talking about an
|
||
area where everything goes on. Anything goes on there.
|
||
Have you got my office number (gives it). If you want to
|
||
do an interview - some inside information or something.
|
||
It's all happening here - there's no question about it.
|
||
I guess you're getting the tapes. This New Year's Eve
|
||
thing will be phenomenal."
|
||
|
||
"Lazar has been on at least two times. Maybe once more
|
||
where he called in. He describes the UFO. He describes
|
||
touching them. He describes how many there are. What
|
||
do they look like inside. How their made. How they get
|
||
here. I mean its phenomenal. You call the office and
|
||
we'll do an interview and put the whole thing in pers-
|
||
pective."
|
||
|
||
|
||
|
||
============================ End of File =======================================
|
||
|
||
|
||
=============================================================================
|
||
= Directory Listing of <<UFONET>> Computer Bulletin Board Systems =
|
||
=============================================================================
|
||
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
||
<<UFONET #>> Board Name System Data Phone Baud
|
||
Net/Node Location Operator Remarks Hours
|
||
=============================================================================
|
||
<<UFONET I>> THE CRUCIBLE Tom 416-237-1204 12/96 HST
|
||
(1:250/440) Toronto, ON Mickus Canadian Hub Various
|
||
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
||
<<UFONET V>> Nexus Linda 602-526-8025 3/96 HST
|
||
(1:304/1) Flagstaff, AZ Murphy American Hub 24 Hrs
|
||
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
||
<<UFONET VI>> LATTICE~ Rod 405-277-3603 3/96 HST
|
||
(1:147/66) Luther, OK Wilson 14.4 HST 24 Hrs
|
||
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
||
<<UFONET VII>> Astro-Net David 714-662-2294 3/24
|
||
(1:103/903) Costa Mesa, CA Rice 24 Hrs
|
||
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
||
<<UFONET IX>> Radio Free Milwaukee Pete 414-351-1823 3/96 HST
|
||
(1:154/414) River Hills, WI Porro Multi-line 24 Hrs
|
||
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
||
<<UFONET XII>> Studio PC Ralph 813-862-8850 3/96
|
||
(1:377/2) Port Richey, FL LoBianco 24 Hrs
|
||
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
||
<<UFONET XIII>> The Briefcase BBS Mike 316-652-9202 3/24
|
||
(1:291/3) Wichita, KS Holcomb 24 Hrs
|
||
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
||
<<UFONET XIV>> Adventures Unlimited Ray 303-493-8162 3/24
|
||
(1:306/15) Ft. Collins, CO Randolph 24 Hrs
|
||
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
||
<<UFONET XV>> BXT-1761 David 512-298-1761 3/24
|
||
(1:136/402) Del Rio, TX Winters 24 Hrs
|
||
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
||
<<UFONET XVI>> The Arts Rap Bob 716-223-7874 3/24
|
||
(1:260/234) Rochester, NY Branch 24 Hrs
|
||
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
||
=============================================================================
|
||
= IF YOU HAVE ANY UFO RELATED INFORMATION THAT YOU WOULD LIKE US TO SEE =
|
||
= OR HAVE DISTRIBUTED, YOU CAN NOW SEND IT VIA OUR NEW UFONET FAX LINE. =
|
||
=============================================================================
|
||
= ------>>> UFONET FAX HOTLINE - 24 Hrs - (414) 351-2075 <<<------ =
|
||
=============================================================================
|
||
|
||
|
||
|
||
|
||
|
||
|
||
======================================================================
|
||
|
||
FILE ORIGINATES FROM: <<UFONET I>>
|
||
UPLOADED BY: Tom Mickus
|
||
DATE OF UPLOAD: FEB/15/1990
|
||
|
||
======================================================================
|
||
======================================================================
|
||
|
||
LAZAR10.TXT [ ***] U.S. Govt "Summary Report" on Lazar?
|
||
|
||
======================================================================
|
||
======================================================================
|
||
|
||
NOTE: This file was received anonymously here at my Fidonet
|
||
address, from a mailer using an unlisted Fidonet number
|
||
of (1:999/999). The file was sent along with a short
|
||
msg, which I will reproduce here:
|
||
|
||
" DEAR FRIEND: HERE IS A FILE THAT YOU MIGHT BE
|
||
INTERESTED IN. I SUGGEST YOU LOOK AT VERY VERY
|
||
CLOSELY. IT CONTAINS MORE THAN WHAT IS EASLY (sic)
|
||
READABLE."
|
||
|
||
|
||
=======================================================================
|
||
=======================================================================
|
||
|
||
|
||
|
||
|
||
|
||
SUMMARY REPORT 2 Feb 1990
|
||
|
||
Sub: Robert Lazar
|
||
|
||
|
||
Scope: Background and personality
|
||
|
||
|
||
|
||
1. The purpose of this report is to detail the available
|
||
background of Mr Robert Lazar. Since his recent exposure to
|
||
the media and the attention it has placed on the activities
|
||
in the test range this will function as an internal document
|
||
for staff briefings on the matter.
|
||
|
||
2. The subject has been employed by a DoD contractor to
|
||
service and maintain ECM simulator sites in the test complex.
|
||
At no time has he been admitted to the advanced systems test
|
||
area. Contractor personnel are familiar with this area thru
|
||
the peer gossip that occurs. As far as can be determined Mr
|
||
Lazar has not had access to any current programs in the area
|
||
nor does the contractor support team he was associated with
|
||
have clearance for these projects.
|
||
|
||
3. After a review of his background it is highly likely that
|
||
the subject seeks recognition thru the spotlight of the
|
||
media. Mr Lazar has been featured on a local TV program as
|
||
well as visits to radio talk programs. All indications are
|
||
that he is highly intelligent but is not satisfied with his
|
||
level of achievement in his current profession. Checks with
|
||
his co-workers backup this assessment.
|
||
|
||
4. All inquiries about Mr Lazar should be handled thru the
|
||
Nellis AFB Public Affairs office. No further action is
|
||
recommended or required. As of this date Mr Lazar has not
|
||
released any sensitive or classified information for which he
|
||
may have had access.
|
||
|
||
|
||
|
||
=============================== End of File =================================
|
||
|
||
|
||
|
||
|
||
=============================================================================
|
||
= Directory Listing of <<UFONET>> Computer Bulletin Board Systems =
|
||
=============================================================================
|
||
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
||
<<UFONET #>> Board Name System Data Phone Baud
|
||
Net/Node Location Operator Remarks Hours
|
||
=============================================================================
|
||
<<UFONET I>> THE CRUCIBLE Tom 416-237-1204 12/96 HST
|
||
(1:250/440) Toronto, ON Mickus Canadian Hub 24 Hrs
|
||
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
||
<<UFONET V>> Nexus Linda 602-526-8025 3/96 HST
|
||
(1:304/1) Flagstaff, AZ Murphy 24 Hrs
|
||
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
||
<<UFONET VI>> LATTICE~ Rod 405-277-3603 3/96 HST
|
||
(1:147/66) Luther, OK Wilson American Hub 24 Hrs
|
||
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
||
<<UFONET VII>> Astro-Net David 714-662-2294 3/24
|
||
(1:103/903) Costa Mesa, CA Rice 24 Hrs
|
||
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
||
<<UFONET IX>> Radio Free Milwaukee Pete 414-351-1823 3/96 HST
|
||
(1:154/414) River Hills, WI Porro Multi-line 24 Hrs
|
||
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
||
<<UFONET XII>> Studio PC Ralph 813-862-8850 3/96
|
||
(1:377/2) Port Richey, FL LoBianco 24 Hrs
|
||
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
||
<<UFONET XIII>> The Briefcase BBS Mike 316-652-9202 3/24
|
||
(1:291/3) Wichita, KS Holcomb 24 Hrs
|
||
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
||
<<UFONET XV>> BXT-1761 David 512-298-1761 3/24
|
||
(1:136/402) Del Rio, TX Winters 24 Hrs
|
||
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
||
<<UFONET XVI>> The Arts Rap Bob 716-223-7874 3/24
|
||
(1:260/234) Rochester, NY Branch 24 Hrs
|
||
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
||
=============================================================================
|
||
= FOR AN UPDATED LISTING OF BOTH UFONET BBSs AND FILES, WRITE: TOM MICKUS =
|
||
= UFONET BBS NETWORK, BOX 388, STATION W, TORONTO, ONTARIO, CANADA M6M5C1 =
|
||
=============================================================================
|
||
=============================================================================
|
||
= IF YOU HAVE ANY UFO RELATED INFORMATION THAT YOU WOULD LIKE US TO SEE =
|
||
= OR HAVE DISTRIBUTED, YOU CAN NOW SEND IT VIA OUR NEW UFONET FAX LINE. =
|
||
=============================================================================
|
||
= ------>>> UFONET FAX HOTLINE - 24 Hrs - (414) 351-2075 <<<------ =
|
||
=============================================================================
|
||
|
||
|