233 lines
10 KiB
Plaintext
233 lines
10 KiB
Plaintext
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THE CRUCIBLE <<UFONET I>> 416-244-9999 *HST* - 24Hrs - 12/24/96 - 60 Megs
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The following file contains clarification and correction
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of a number of claims attributed to Tracy Torme by Larry
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Fenwick within the Fenwick.txt interview transcript of
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Nov.6/88. Tracy Torme's version comes from a taped conversation
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I had with him on Dec.4/88 In addition to Torme's reaction,
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I also have Larry Fenwick's response to this. Lastly, Tracy
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also has kindly offered to give his views on the Gulf Breeze
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series of UFO sightings, and of his appraisal of "Mr. Ed".
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The following is a series of selected statements made by Tracy
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Torme, who gave me permission to use "any, or part of this" so
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as to reproduce in electronic form for distribution on ParaNet.
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<Tracy Torme>
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"Although there are grains of truth...small grains of truth, in
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some of what Larry said, a great majority of it is inaccurate
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and highly exaggerated. Just for the record, some of the positions
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that he has me taking are positions that I absolutely do not
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believe...I never did, and I still don't. When I talked to Larry
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about this after having read the transcript, Larry was pretty
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apologetic, and said, well, he realizes he has a faulty memory
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and he tends to exagerate. Thats his quote. And that's how I
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found the whole thing on me.
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For the record, the following things are the way that I feel:
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(1) I do not have any inside information on Project Aquarius.
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(2) I have strong doubts that Project Aquarius even exists as
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interpreted by Larry Fenwick.
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(3) I do not believe in underground alien bases. Although I keep
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open the possibility that such things exist, I personally
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would tend to disbelieve that. And never said anything like that.
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(4) The "religion" comments were taken out of context. And most
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of what was said were not my words. When I was pressed to
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reveal anything I might know about Bill Moore's situation, I
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basically refused. Then Larry and Harry Tokarz etc., and Joe
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Muskat started asking me, well, if the stuff that Bill is onto
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is true, then what would it affect? And they started running
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through a number of things, and one of the them that I agreed
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could be affected, would be religion. But I never said it
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would be affected. And I never NEVER said anything about 20
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million suicides. That is something that someone from CUFORN
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said, and Larry is getting them mistaken."
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"As far as me knowing everything that Bill Moore knows, that is
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ridiculous...back in 1982 or today."
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"I'm often amused with people who decide that I'm some kind of
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agent who knows all that Moore knows, and works so closely to
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Moore. Because the reality is that I know only slightly more than
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what most people do. For instance, John Lear came out and said I
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was an agent of disinformation for Bill Moore. And when I asked
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John why he said that, he said, well you seem to agree with him alot.
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That's the kind of reasoning that leads to these nonsensical claims."
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[Regarding the New York Meeting with...here are some of Torme's remarks]
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"Larry Fenwick used to tell me that he saw suspicious people in
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the lobby of my hotel who's eyes were following me wherever I went.
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So he started to suspect that I was being surveilled. And again, I
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don't think there is anything to that either."
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"I don't specifically remember anything about saying "don't take
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notes", but I'm not denying I said that, because most likely what
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the context of it was...they [the CUFORN guys] started asking alot
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of questions again...and they may have gotten a tape recorder out
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or something, and I may have discouraged them and said, "look guys
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I'll just talk to you off the record, but I don't want this to
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become like an interview, where I'll have to watch my words. Thats
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as much as there is to that."
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"Basically, my last statement would be that this is a small but
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important example how rumour mongering, exaggeration, excitability,
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melodrama, etc....enter into the simplest of stories, and by the
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time they make their rounds of the UFO grapevine, they are blown
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all out of proportion."
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[In response to my query about what percentage of Moore's info Tracy knows..]
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I think I still know some things that Bill Moore knows that only
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a few people know. I'm sure there are some things that I still know
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that are not known to the general public. I wouldn't say [they are]
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anything earth-shattering, nothing that anyone wouldn't imagine."
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"In my viewpoint, if the UFO community knows 15% of what Bill Moore
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knows, then maybe I know 25%."
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"I don't know where MJ-12 hangs out, where they play golf, and all
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that kinda stuff. I don't know that stuff. If anyone thinks that I
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do, then more power to them, but its not true. So thats the situation.
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"
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[Regarding the above...in conversations with Larry Fenwick, he has agreed tha
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t
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his recollection of what transpired during certain events (all of which did
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occur as Fenwick mentioned) was indeed "faulty", and as they took place some
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6-8 years ago, Fenwick blames the passage of time for this error on his part.
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]
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[One mistake made while transcribing, was my attributing Torme with working
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at CTV instead of at SCTV. - other than that, except for a few typographical
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errors, the text is an accurate portrayal of the Fenwick.txt transcript.]
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[The following are Tracy Torme's views on the Gulf Breeze UFO sightings,
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whose views I solicited due to Tracy's own work with, and meetings, with
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many of the individuals involved...including with "Mr.Ed" and his family.
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As you may know, Tracy's work on the TV special "UFO-Coverup LIVE" was
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primarily on the Gulf Breeze segment, and as such he is quite familiar
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with it.]
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<Torme>"Well, I started as a skeptic, and became a definite believer.
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I keep hearing from skeptics that new information, or certain
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things that have come out, have blown the case out of the water.
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But everytime I look into that so-called "new information",
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there's nothing there that damages the case at all, really. So,
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I'm still keeping the door open that its an incredibly elaborate
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hoax...because I don't think that's an impossibility. But I'm
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98% convinced that something very unusual really was flying around
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down there. That much, I'm pretty convinced off."
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<Mickus>"So I guess you and Jim [Speiser] would differ on that then...
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cause I know that he's come out and called it a hoax."
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<Torme>"Jim Speiser has?"
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<Mickus>"Well, ParaNet's current classification on it is that it is
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a hoax."
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<Torme>"Is that right?"
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<Mickus>"Yes. I thought that it was maybe a little premature."
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<Torme>"I'm surprised to hear that. There's so much to the case, that
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someday I would love to be part of a real, bigger discussion about
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it. I've been down there now I think four times. And I've been
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involved with all the principals directly down there in Gulf Breeze.
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If its a fake, they sure got me fooled, I can tell you that much.
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And I'm not saying that that's impossible, but it would be a real
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surprise."
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"One thing I will say about it is that, its an interesting case
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in that most cases like it, like the Meier case...and others, the
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more you find out about them, the less you believe in them. What
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I've found with Gulf Breeze is, that the more you stay at a distance
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from it, the easier it is to say that its not real. Because the
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photos look fake, and its the type of case that has never happenend
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really legitimately before. So its easy to just base it on the
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superficial ideal like that, and say okay its not real. And I think
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to a certain extent, Richard Haines and Richard Hall, and other
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people that are good people in the field...when I talk about it to
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them, that's pretty much where they stood. But I really found out
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that I didn't feel like they knew as much about it as they should,
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in order to make that decision [against GB being legit]. The
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interesting thing about Gulf Breeze is the more you learn about it
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and the more you get to know who "Mr. Ed" really is, and who some
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of the other witnesses are, and the details of what they saw, I
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think you have to come away from it making the same judgement that
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Hopkins made and that Maccabee has made and that I have made, along
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with most other people, and that is that it is a real series of
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incidents. I've spent quite a bit of time with "Mr. Ed" I've gone
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to all the major sites where with him where he had incidents...and
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I've relived them with him [through Ed's re-telling]. I've met his
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family, his kids, his wife and some of his neighbors and friends."
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"I think the guy has a lot of integrity, and I think he's suffering
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because of this, instead of profiting because of it." I think its
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a real case, that's my feeling on it."
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[Lastly, a closing remark about Tracy Torme's view of Larry Fenwick...]
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"Larry Fenwick really means well. And he is not dishonest. He's
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a nice guy, and he's earnest, and he means well...but like he
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himself said, he gets things mixed up. Unfortunately, thats what
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happened this time."
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[ -- End of File -- ]
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there.
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<Mickus>"So I guess you and Jim [Speiser] would differ on that then...
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cause I know that he's come out and called it a hoax."
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<Torme>"Jim Speiser has?"
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<Mickus>"Well, ParaNet's current classification on it is that it is
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a hoax."
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