textfiles/ufo/area516.ufo

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 (C) Copyright 1989 ParaNet Information Service

 All Rights Reserved unless copyrighted by Author.

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 Robert Lazar/Billy Goodman, KVEG-AM Radio 840

 Based  on  its  original  three-hour,  11/21/89  broadcast,   the

 following is KVEG's one-hour version, played at midnight 12/31/89

 and at midnight

 12/7/90:

 

 Goodman:

 You  came  on  the CBS affiliate here in Las  Vegas,  Channel  8,

 saying  there are flying saucers not too far from here.  I  don't

 want to say Area 51, right?

 

 Lazar:

 Right.  It's Area S-4.  A lot of people get that confused.   It's

 about 10 miles south of Area 51, of Groom Lake, which is Area 51.

 

 Goodman:

 When  people try to get down that dirt road, they get stopped  by

 cars and everything.  What are they protecting there?

 

 Lazar:

 Oh, Groom Lake -- that's Area 51.

 

 A lot of projects are going on at Groom Lake -- Area 51:

 Aurora  -- a high-altitude, reconnaissance aircraft  designed  to

 replace the SR-71, some Star Wars research --

 

 But there aren't and never has been any flying saucers at Area 51

 at Groom Lake.

 

 Goodman:

 You  have  been at Area 51, so you can  say  that  unequivocally,

 right?

 

 Lazar:

 Oh yeah.

 

 Goodman:

 Did you spend most of your time at S-4?

 

 Lazar:

 Groom  Lake/Area 51 has a runway there, so if you want to go  out

 to that part of the Test Site, you fly in and land at Groom  Lake

 and then you take a bus south to Area S-4.

 

 Goodman:

 Have you actually landed on that airstrip at Groom Lake?

 

 Lazar:

 Yeah, every time I went out there I HAD to land there.

 

 Goodman:

 How often would you go out there?

 

 Lazar:

 It wasn't on a regular basis.  They called me up and said,  well,

 Thursday  by  4:45, be at such and such a place and get  on  this

 plane, and, you know, you'll be out there.  I hadn't worked  into

 a regular schedule yet.

 

 Goodman:

 You're  sitting  at home and they say, you will be at  a  certain

 place  at a certain time, or you will arrive there?  How  do  you

 make sure you can make connections to get there at 4:45?  Do they

 take care of all that for you too?

 

 Lazar:

 No,  I  just have to show up there.  If I can't make it,  I  just

 have to tell them or call them with sufficient notice.

 

 Goodman:

 But they want you there for a specific reason because --

 

 Lazar:

 -- well, to get on a specific flight.

 

 Goodman:

 And they want you there at Groom Lake so you can get to S-4.

 

 Lazar:

 Right.

 

 Goodman:

 When you get there, what are they usually looking for you to do?

 

 Lazar:

 That  varied.   Mainly  educating me, catching  me  up  to  where

 everyone else was.

 

 Goodman:

 Grooming you.

 

 Lazar:

 Yeah.

 

 Goodman:

 And what were they grooming you for, Bob?

 

 Lazar:

 I dealt with mainly the propulsion of the extraterrestrial craft.

 There was a lot of material to read, a lot of briefings, a lot of

 research  that  had been done for quite some time that I  had  to

 catch up on before I could really get into it myself.  So most of

 the time I spent reading and going over some things.

 

 There  was  some hands-on experience with some of  the  equipment

 from the discs and things of that sort.

 

 Goodman:

 Let's bring you back to the beginning.  You're a young man, let's

 face  it, you're a young man.  What was your first  reaction  the

 first time you knew for a fact that we had flying saucers in  our

 possession?   You  saw them with your own eyes.   What  was  your

 first reaction to this?

 

 Lazar:

 Oh, it was exciting!  What else can you say?  It was really neat.

 The  first  time I saw it and I walked in and  actually  saw  the

 disc,  of  course I couldn't say whether or not it was  an  alien

 device  or just an interesting craft that we've been  developing.

 So it was a little while before I had ascertained that it was  an

 extraterrestrial craft.

 

 Goodman:

 Did they ever explain to you how it got there?

 

 Lazar:

 No,  that  I  was never told.  But they  just  took  things  very

 slowly.   First I was exposed to the craft, and then I  began  to

 read  the  briefings.  And they were monitoring  me  through  the

 whole  time,  so they let me take things one step at a  time,  as

 they do for everyone that works there.

 

 Goodman:

 You  got  to be honest with me.  Here you are a young  man.   You

 left  there and you went home to the wife, to your  neighborhood,

 sitting  around  having a cup of coffee.  Did you ever  say,  hey

 man, you won't believe this, there are flying saucers!

 

 Lazar:

 Oh, I stuck with "the program" for a little while.

 

 Goodman:

 Well, what was "the program":  Don't tell anybody?

 

 Lazar:

 Oh, most certainly.

 

 Goodman:

 Being  inquisitive, I'm sure, as a young man, did you  ever  say,

 why is it that we can't tell anybody?

 

 Lazar:

 No, because being involved with many other classified projects at

 the other labs that I worked with, you don't ask that.  You  just

 assume  that they know what they're doing.  You're privileged  to

 be in that project, so --

 

 Goodman:

 So you just felt honored being there.

 

 Lazar:

 Exactly.

 

 Goodman:

 And  you'd  get home and sit there with the wife  at  the  dinner

 table and not even talk about it?

 

 Lazar:

 Well, that didn't last for too long.

 

 Goodman:

 I can imagine, I mean: "How  was your day today, dear?   Anything

 exciting happen?"  What would you say?

 

 Lazar:

 Not  a  whole  lot.  It caused a lot of  friction,  a  tremendous

 amount.

 

 Goodman:

 Because you couldn't speak up -- you couldn't talk about what was

 going on.

 

 Lazar:

 Right.

 

 Goodman:

 Is your title "scientist"?

 

 Lazar:

 Physicist, but scientist is a good all-around description.

 

 Goodman:

 As far as you're concerned, there is no extraterrestrial activity

 up  at  Area 51 or Groom Lake.  Has that always  been  the  case?

 Because I heard, and I also read government papers -- maybe  they

 lied  --  but they said that Area 51 was the area where  the  U-2

 came out of.

 

 Lazar:

 That's  where the U-2 came out of, where the SR-71 came  out  of.

 Lots of things came out of there.

 

 Maybe a disk went THROUGH there.  But they're just not stored and

 developed/worked  on there.  Sure, one may have rolled  by  there

 and someone may have -- There have been lots of reports of people

 at  Area 51 who have said, at one time I saw a disk in a  hangar.

 That may have happened, but it wasn't there permanently.

 

 Goodman:

 We  took  a group of people up there, about 200.  And  I  was  up

 there with them.  I sat in the desert and I watched.

 

 And  here's  how I could describe it.   Picture  the  29-1/2-mile

 Marker,  and we're leaking out at these peaks.  All of  a  sudden

 over  the  peak something comes up.  It appears  over  the  peak.

 It's just a light.  And you watch this light and you see it doing

 ZIGZAGS!

 

 Something's  happened  out there!  Planes that we  have  that  do

 those kind of maneuvers?

 

 Lazar:

 Well, without seeing it, I can't say.  But I know when the  tests

 are.

 

 Zelly:

 I  watched you on the Channel 8 program, and my dog  was  barking

 when you were explaining the gravity theory.

 

 These craft don't use any type of gasoline, is that right?

 

 Lazar:

 Any type of GASOLINE?

 

 Zelly:

 Yeah.

 

 Lazar:

 No, they don't.

 

 Zelly:

 Okay, how do they get from A to B?

 

 Lazar:

 They bend space and time, using gravity.

 

 Zelly:

 Can  you explain that to a layman like me in as simple  terms  as

 possible?

 

 Lazar:

 I  can give a fairly accurate description.  I haven't given  this

 before, but I think this is the best one.

 

 The  crafts have three gravity amplifiers on the bottom of  them.

 What they do, assuming that they're in space; it's just easier to

 get this across that way:

 

 They  will focus the three gravity amplifiers on the  point  they

 want to go to.

 

 Now  to  give an analogy, take a thin rubber sheet, lay it  on  a

 table, and put thumbtacks in each corner.  Take a big stone,  set

 it  on  one end of the rubber sheet, and say that's your  UFO  or

 spacecraft.

 

 Pick out a point you want to go to -- which could be anywhere  on

 the rubber sheet -- pinch that point with your fingers, and  pull

 that  all  the way up to the craft.  That's how  it  focuses  and

 pulls that point actually TO it.

 

 When you then shut off the gravity generators, the stone or  your

 spacecraft  follows  that  stretched rubber back  to  its  point.

 There's  no linear travel through space; it actually bends  space

 and time and follows space as it retracts.

 

 Zelly:

 Is there a box on the craft that does this gravity focusing?

 

 Lazar:

 It's a complete system; it's not a single little box.

 

 Zelly:

 That's  so hard to understand.  Did you understand  this  easily?

 Did you comprehend this over months or years?

 

 Lazar:

 No, it didn't really take very long.  The concept is difficult to

 grasp.

 

 Jeff from Canyon Lake, CA:

 Last  Saturday night my cousin and I were out at Groom Lake,  and

 we  saw from the peak that I think you were describing, Billy,  a

 very  similar experience.  We saw the lights originally over  the

 top  of the mountains and streak out to about a half a mile  away

 from  us  and  then just vanished.  It lasted for  seven  to  ten

 seconds.   Then my cousin saw another sighting off to  the  south

 where your guest described the site.

 

 What was weird  -- I got out the camera and was just about  ready

 to take a picture and it vanished from the center out!  It became

 transparent and all of a sudden it was gone.  It was like nothing

 that I've ever seen before.  What could it have been?

 

 Lazar:

 Without seeing it, I really can't say.

 

 Goodman:

 There is a theory that they can dematerialize or all of a  sudden

 be  so  quick  to get away from you that you  lose  sight  of  it

 instantly.  Is that true?

 

 Lazar:

 You  can lose sight of it without it even moving because --  just

 in  view of the way things work -- when they warp time and  space

 around the craft, they can actually --

 

 This  is  the  exact reason you can see  stars  behind  the  sun,

 because  the sun has an intense gravitational field and it  pulls

 space AROUND where you can begin to see the star behind it.  It's

 just  like in a disk:  You can be looking straight up at it,  and

 if the gravity generators are in the proper configuration, you'll

 just see the sky above it; you won't see the craft there.  That's

 how there can be a group of people, and some people can be  right

 under it and see it, and there can be people 100 feet off to  the

 left and not see it.  It just depends how the field is bent.

 

 It's  also the reason why the crafts APPEAR as if they're  making

 ninety-degree turns at some incredible speed; it's just the  time

 and space distortion you're seeing; you're not seeing the  actual

 event happening.

 

 Roger Number Two:

 Have you seen any aliens there?

 

 Lazar:

 You know, I really don't want to talk about aliens at S-4.   It's

 just a weird topic.

 

 Roger:

 Three  days  ago  on the Billy Goodman  Happening,  a  worker  at

 Mercury came on.  Did you hear that show?

 

 Lazar:

 No.

 

 Roger:

 He  went 3,000 feet underground, and when the elevator opened  it

 was a stainless steel atmosphere.  He's a worker laying  electric

 wiring  and lighting for this vast complex at Mercury.  And  he's

 been working there quite awhile.

 

 He told of the Marines down there with fixed bayonets that herded

 them  into certain areas, took them out of other areas.  And  one

 day, he saw some doctors there with white coats -- smocks --  and

 they  were wheeling along on gurneys some aliens with big  heads,

 small bodies, arms, and so forth.

 

 Lazar:

 This is in Mercury?

 

 Roger:

 Yes.

 

 Lazar:

 That's a strange place for that to occur, though I have heard but

 do not have first-hand experience of any tunnels and things  down

 there.   Certainly, they have very deep tunnels and  rooms  under

 there  for  the nuclear tests.  I don't know if they go  down  to

 3,000  feet, though I think someone was just recently  killed  at

 1,500  feet  underground -- that was in the  paper,  so  everyone

 knows they at least go down THAT deep.

 

 Roger:

 The information I have is that most of the underground areas  are

 about 1,000 meters.

 

 Lazar:

 I  really don't know how far they go down THERE.  The thing  that

 strikes  me  as unusual is you said there is  a  stainless  steel

 atmosphere?

 

 Roger:

 Yes.   That's  the  way he described it.  They  were  putting  up

 sheets  of stainless steel because apparently they  drilled  with

 some  kind  of machine in this vast complex  underground  in  the

 tunnels, and they had to put something to COVER that.

 

 Lazar:

 I understand what you're talking about now.  In fact, I happen to

 know of somebody that drills those tunnels down there.

 

 Roger:

 Are they the type that go through and push the top off the  earth

 to  the  SIDE and have square corners to compact it,  leaving  no

 residue?

 

 Lazar:

 I  really  don't remember how the person described it to  me.   I

 think  it's  a 24-foot-diameter drill that is  driven,  and  it's

 hydraulically operated, and they just DRIVE the thing.

 

 Roger:

 But it must not leave any residue then.

 

 Lazar:

 Probably not.  Either that or it channels it out backwards and is

 somehow relayed out of the hole.

 

 Guardian Angel:

 Does Bob feel secure after he's left this out.  I pray no one has

 made any attempt on you at all?

 

 Lazar:

 Well, they made attempts on me before, but not since.  And as far

 as  feeling  secure,  no, I don't.  I'm really  waiting  for  the

 repercussions.

 

 Guardian:

 I  wish  you would really stay close to the show with  Billy.   I

 think  we would enjoy talking and asking questions of  you.   And

 you'd better believe that they would have to answer to us if  all

 of a sudden you would come up [wrong.]

 

 You  said  Wednesday nights are normally when these  saucers  are

 seen.

 

 Lazar:

 Right.

 

 Guardian:

 Can I ask you what your clearance was out there at S-4?

 

 Lazar:

 I'd rather not say because the name is --

 It's  38 levels above Q-Clearance, which is the highest  civilian

 clearance; it is SUPPOSED to be the highest civilian clearance.

 

 Goodman:

 It  starts at Q and goes from there -- one, two, three?  Is  that

 how it works?

 

 Lazar:

 I don't know what the intermediate levels are.

 

 Goodman:

 You don't know if there are 37 others; it's just the number  they

 gave you; is that correct?

 

 Lazar:

 No, there ARE 37 others.

 

 Kevin:

 I  was interested in the condition and shape of the disk that  he

 claims he saw up at Area S-4 on the Range.

 

 Lazar:

 The condition and shape?  The condition seemed new, as I said  on

 the  TV program.  It seemed almost brand new, like I said,  if  I

 know  what a new flying saucer looks like.  As far as the  shape,

 have you ever seen any of the Billy Meiers photographs?

 

 Kevin:

 I've seen a couple, yes.

 

 Lazar:

 There's one that it bears a striking resemblance to.  It's one --

 I  coined  the term the Sport Model.  It doesn't have  any  weird

 protrusions;  it's  a slim, thin disk with ridges in it,  and  it

 bears an incredible resemblance to that; and I tend to think that

 it IS that disk.

 

 Kevin:

 Approximate dimensions?

 

 Lazar:

 Approximately 30-35 feet by 15 feet tall.

 

 Kevin:

 How close were you allowed to be?

 

 Lazar:

 I stood inside the doorway.

 

 Kevin:

 Were you able to determine what the metallic makeup was?

 

 Lazar:

 No.

 

 Goodman:

 Did you touch it at any time?

 

 Lazar:

 Oh yeah.

 

 Goodman:

 What does it feel like?

 

 Lazar:

 It feels like ordinary metal.

 

 Goodman:

 Like aluminum?

 

 Lazar:

 Can you feel the difference between steel and aluminum?

 

 Goodman:

 Steel is colder than aluminum, I understand, to the feel.

 

 Lazar:

 I'm not a metallurgist.

 

 Goodman:

 Reports say there's a very thin feel to it.

 

 Lazar:

 I didn't feel the thickness of it; I felt the outside.  It  could

 be a micron thick or a foot thick; I wouldn't know.

 

 Goodman:

 You say you never saw the metal itself off to the side.

 

 Lazar:

 Not pieces of it, just the disk itself.

 

 Goodman:

 What was the disk doing?

 

 Lazar:

 Sitting there.

 

 Goodman:

 How was it sitting there?  On the bottom?

 

 Lazar:

 Yeah,  it was on tripod legs; they were actually resting  on  the

 bottom of the disk.

 

 Goodman:

 Were there people milling around it?

 

 Lazar:

 Not at the time I walked up to it, no.  There were people in  the

 area, yeah.

 

 Goodman:

 Is that the only one you ever saw?

 

 Lazar:

 No, I saw the other ones but at a great distance.

 

 Goodman:

 What were THEY doing?

 

 Lazar:

 They were just parked in the hangars.

 

 Goodman:

 Like an airplane.

 

 Lazar:

 Essentially.

 

 Goodman:

 You never saw them land or take off?

 

 Lazar:

 No, never.  I don't even know if they were operational.

 

 Deadhead Dean:

 I took a class in quantum physics.

 

 Lazar:

 That's a fun class, wasn't it?

 

 Dean:

 Yeah,  it  was for me.  But we studied a lot about  gravity.   We

 studied about gravitons.

 

 Lazar:

 The  theory of gravitons is wrong.  But physics has  always  done

 that:   Where  there's a question, they create a  particle.   You

 must know what I'm talking about -- photons and things like that.

 

 Dean:

 Have you found anything that confirms the existence of gravitons?

 

 Lazar:

 No.  Everything denied the existence of gravitons.  Gravity is  a

 WAVE,  and there are actually two waves that are misconstrued  as

 one force.  And they're called Gravity A and B.

 

 Dean:

 What's you general attitude about quantum physics and the quantum

 theory?

 

 Lazar:

 That  can  last all night.  If you want to talk to  me  privately

 about that, I'd be happy to talk to you.

 

 Dean:

 I'm  interested in how it connects with the Grand  Unified  Field

 Theory.   We were told that if we could confirm the existence  of

 some of these quantum particles, we could fit in --

 

 Lazar:

 Right.  I don't want to say my number over the air; that would be

 a  disaster.  You could write in care of the station,  and  Billy

 could  get it to me and I could write back to you.   The  Unified

 Field Theory is a lot more simple; they say the BEAUTIFUL  theory

 will  be  the  Unified Field Theory; it is  a  lot  simpler  than

 physics is after right now.

 

 Dean:

 On  the  KLAS show you said the extraterrestrial crafts  you  saw

 were  from another solar system completely.  Do you believe  that

 because  you know where they are from or because you  just  ruled

 out any of the other planets in the solar system as habitable?

 

 Lazar:

 No, that's because I know where they're from.

 

 Goodman:

 Where are you actually working right now, Bob?

 

 Lazar:

 I have my own company; I work for myself.

 

 Goodman:

 Are you inventing things?  What do you do?

 

 Lazar:

 I'd rather not say.

 

 Goodman:

 That's your privilege, sir.  I just thought I'd give you a  plug,

 if it's a business.

 

 Lazar:

 I  still  conduct  business with the Government  in  a  technical

 aspect.

 

 Goodman:

 A consultant-type thing maybe?

 

 Lazar:

 You could say that.

 

 ETC:

 Does "M42" mean anything to you?

 

 Lazar:

 Not of the top of my head.

 

 ETC:

 Okay, very good.

 How do you rate Hawkings?

 

 Lazar:

 Stephen Hawkings?  There's a lot I could say about him.  A lot of

 the  basic  theory is incorrect.  But he's a very  thorough  guy.

 Have you read his book?

 

 ETC:

 Yes I have.  I'm an experimental researcher.

 

 You're  a  physicist.   Now, how far back do you  go  as  far  as

 traveling  backwards  through time?  Can you go to the  Big  Bang

 theory and then subscribe to it?

 

 Lazar:

 I'll  go  with the Big Bang theory, but there are so  many  other

 variables,  so  many  other things really  could  have  happened,

 that's more of a cosmology viewpoint.  I'm concerned mainly  with

 particle physics, high-energy physics, and that sort of thing.

 

 ETC:

 Isn't that where it all began?

 

 Lazar:

 Yeah it is.  But when you're talking on a macro scale like  that,

 you're  sliding out of my field of expertise.  I do subscribe  to

 the  Big  Bang theory; there WAS a big bang.  Where  the  initial

 particle came from -- there's a great debate about that.

 

 ETC:

 Could  you  give me an estimate where  they're  getting  creation

 versus evolution?  Was the big bang a part of evolution or was it

 a  part  of creation?  And was there a creation or  an  evolution

 before that?

 

 Lazar:

 Well,  that's a chicken or the egg question, to me.  I would  say

 that  the big bang was followed by a natural evolution, though  I

 don't  think  things  just evolved to  where  everything  is  now

 without interaction.

 

 ETC:

 Very  good.   I guess I'm going back too far.  You seem to  be  a

 real  logical scientist; you don't want to go out on a limb  with

 theories; you want to stick to facts.

 

 Lazar:

 I'd really rather do that.

 

 ETC:

 And that's very good.

 And  what IS the fact?  How far can you really trace us back,  to

 absolutes, where you drop off from absolutes into your theories?

 

 Lazar:

 Probably from the instant of detonation of the big bang.

 

 ETC:

 That's microseconds, right?

 

 Lazar:

 I'd say even before that.

 

 ETC:

 Okay, very good.

 

 Lazar:

 It might go into --

 

 ETC:

 Do  you  feel the new telescopes coming up into space  will  help

 solve that mystery?

 

 Lazar:

 Oh yeah.  It will certainly pose a lot more questions though.

 

 Goodman:

 What is this Big Bang theory?

 

 Lazar:

 How  the  universe  was  initiated.  I think  the  way  that  was

 detected was, someone looked and just happened to notice that all

 the  galaxies  were moving AWAY from a certain point  at  certain

 speeds.   And  they did a computer analysis and, I'm  not  really

 sure  how  this  progressed, but they were able  to  reverse  the

 directions  and  everything  came to a single  point.   And  they

 assumed  that  there  was at one  time  an  unbelievable  massive

 particle that exploded.

 

 Goodman:

 Like a meteorite-type thing?  Bigger than that?

 

 Lazar:

 Actually smaller than that.  It gets really crazy.

 

 Goodman:

 But this thing that did explode . . .

 

 Lazar:

 Right,  there  was a tremendous explosion.  It  threw  EVERYTHING

 out;  gases  and  things condensed into  matter  and  essentially

 formed the universe:  that's the Big Bang theory.

 

 Goodman:

 How many flying saucers have you seen?

 

 Lazar:

 Nine.

 

 Goodman:

 And  you know for a fact they did not come from here, right?   Or

 where do you think they came from originally?

 

 Lazar:

 I didn't see them delivered.  My best guesstimation is that  they

 came from another, well, another world.

 

 Goodman:

 And  when  they  are flown in this S-4 area, are  they  flown  by

 aliens or by military pilots?

 

 Lazar:

 They're  either  flown  by remote control or  flown  by  military

 pilots.  I say either remote control or people because I did  not

 actually see who got into the disk.

 

 Goodman:

 Did it look like there was a lot of room in the disk?  How  large

 were these things?

 

 Lazar:

 No, there's not that much room inside.

 

 Goodman:

 You'd have to be small, I would imagine.

 

 Lazar:

 Right.

 

 Space Case:

 I heard John Lear talking about drugs and hypnosis being used  on

 individuals that are working with the ET project.  Do you confirm

 that?

 

 Also,  when  the guys were at the Red Rock area or  wherever  the

 vortex  is at Blue Point, someone said they had a scar  on  their

 shoulder or arm after the encounter.  John mentioned that  anyone

 who  was  involved or abducted, drugs and hypnosis were  used  on

 him.  Do you know anything about that?  Is it possible that group

 could have been abducted by people involved with the project, why

 they lost time, and why some of them had scars, like maybe  there

 was a hyper- or gravity or something like that?

 

 Lazar:

 I have no information on abductions.

 

 The  drugs and hypnosis:  Now, I found out about this  --  though

 supposedly this happened to me -- I found out about this  through

 regressive hynosis.  I had vivid memory of everything, but  there

 were a couple of days that I only remembered going out on a plane

 and coming back on a plane, and I thought it was really strange.

 

 I decided to try a clinical hypnotist.  His name is Layne Keck at

 Serenus  Clinic here in Las Vegas.  He had no idea what  we  were

 talking  about -- anything to do with UFOs.  I wanted to go  with

 someone that was completely unbiased.

 

 And  I  just stepped back under hypnosis ENTIRE DAYS so  I  could

 read  -- re-read the reports and things and get things  a  little

 clearer.

 

 And  there was just an INTENSE drilling period of rhythmic  yells

 in a room with some guys continuously threatening me.  I said  --

 under  hypnosis  -- I was drinking something  that  smelled  like

 pine,  which  even sounds strange to me, but I  heard  myself  on

 tape,  and  as  I describe this -- I'm  not  that  familiar  with

 hypnosis -- but Layne said it's similar to something the military

 uses called "The Orion Method," some sort of regimented hypnosis.

 

 Space Case:

 John  said  that's why most of this stuff there is  kept  secret,

 because the people that work there -- when they first go up there

 -- are indoctrinated with the drugs and the hypnosis.

 

 And then when they leave the site or wherever they're working  on

 this  stuff, they go back to their normal way of living and  have

 no memory of it.

 

 Then  when they come back into the security, they walk through  a

 room  or something triggers them into a trance or regimen  again.

 And then they work under hypnosis having no memory.

 

 Then when they come back into the real world, they forget again.

 

 And that's why these people can go on these missions and go  down

 to Africa and pick up these saucers, nobody having any record  or

 memory of it at all.  Does that make sense to you at all?

 

 Lazar:

 That  sounds  cool, but I don't know.  I can't  confirm  or  deny

 that.

 

 Obviously,  something is done, something WAS done in the area  of

 hynosis  to me, and I'm sure, other people that work there.   But

 whether they can turn you on or off, I really don't know.   Maybe

 they can do that.  It sounds even far-fetched to me, but I really

 don't know.

 

 Goodman:

 You don't think it's possible that as you arrive in the  morning,

 the  effects have worn off, and you get in there and you do  your

 job.

 

 Lazar:

 I can't say anything is impossible anymore because I keep finding

 out  different.  Sure that's possible.  But I'm a  nuts-and-bolts

 guy and I can't say, as a matter of fact that is true and  that's

 false.  I don't know.

 

 Goodman:

 But there must be some power that they have over everybody,  Bob,

 that  they  leave  there everyday, go  back  to  their  families;

 something has to occur.

 

 Lazar:

 Yeah, but how come I had total memory of most of the stuff I  was

 involved in then?

 

 Goodman:

 I'm  not saying you, per se.  I'm saying other people  up  there.

 There  must  be something where they have a  way  of  controlling

 them,  so that when they leave there they forget or they just  go

 into something else.

 

 Lazar:

 Right.  I have a hard time believing everyone can adhere to  "the

 program."   I mean, how strong can you possibly be?  Yeah,  there

 must be a way.  It can't be just threats.

 

 Tim:

 Are  you familiar with the latest scientific evidence:  Right  in

 the center of our Milky Way galaxy there's a black hole --

 

 Lazar:

 Black  hole,  yeah.  That's not very late;  they  theorized  that

 awhile  ago.  As a matter of fact, it's now thought that  in  the

 center of EVERY galaxy there's a black hole.

 

 Tim:

 How sure are they that they have one in ours?

 

 Lazar:

 I really don't know.

 

 Tim:

 You  said you stepped in the doorway of the spaceship.   Did  you

 actually step onto the spaceship?

 

 Lazar:

 Yes.

 

 Tim:

 Did it make a sound when you stepped on it?

 

 Lazar:

 No.

 

 Tim:

 What color was the inside interior?

 

 Lazar:

 It was all the same color as the outside -- just a dull  aluminum

 finish, is the best way I can describe it.

 

 Tim:

 When you worked for this agency, what method did they use to  pay

 you?  Did they send you a check every two weeks, or what?

 

 Lazar:

 Checks, yeah.

 

 Tim:

 Do you have the check stubs?

 

 Lazar:

 I don't want to talk about that right now.

 

 Tim:

 But you got paid by check?

 

 Lazar:

 Right.

 

 Tim:

 You  said  the  way  the aliens travel  in  the  spaceships  they

 generate  the  gravity,  and it pulls one side  of  the  universe

 towards it --

 

 Lazar:

 Yeah, I wouldn't go as far as the universe, but a great  distance

 toward  it,  yeah.   They  can't  exert  a  gravitational   field

 throughout the universe -- just some limited distance -- I  don't

 know what it is.

 

 Tim:

 But do they do it toward the Earth?

 

 Lazar:

 No, toward the craft, wherever the craft is.

 

 Tim:

 When they want to go to Earth, they aim it toward the Earth?

 

 Lazar:

 Right.

 

 Tim:

 Do you think this is the reason why I occasionally feel dizzy?

 

 Lazar:

 I doubt it.

 

 Tim:

 If  you built a spaceship that travels at the speed of light  and

 you turn on the headlights, what would happen?

 

 Lazar:

 Exactly what would happen if you had a spacecraft, for  instance,

 traveling at the speed of light and you were sitting on the front

 of  it  and you fired a bullet that also moved at  the  speed  of

 light.  People ask, how fast does that bullet move in relation to

 a  stationary object?  And the layman would say, twice the  speed

 of  light.   But  no, nothing ever exceeds  the  speed  of  light

 because mass increases and so on and so forth.

 

 But if you're a spacecraft, of course it can travel AT the  speed

 of  light, but if it APPROACHES it, can you turn your  headlights

 on?  They don't do very much good.

 

 Chris:

 I theorized that gravity transcends conventional space-time,  and

 that  a massive object at one end of the universe  is  attracting

 instantaneously  objects  at  other  parts  of  the  universe  --

 extremely  subtle effect, obviously, how many angels on the  head

 of a needle.

 

 And I have one question about Fleischman and Pons.

 

 Lazar:

 That's an interesting group.

 

 Gravity propagates instantly, by the way.

 

 Chris:

 I've  been  interested  in theoretical physics for  the  last  20

 years;  I've  driven myself crazy.  And I  disagree  with  Steven

 Hawkings too.

 

 Lazar:

 I don't want to shoot down Steven Hawkings; he's a brilliant man.

 There are some basic physics that are wrong.

 

 Chris:

 Could  you comment on Fleischman and Pons?  I maintain that  they

 are  correct  and  that  this hass been covered  up  by  the  oil

 companies.

 

 Lazar:

 I don't agree with that.

 

 Chris:

 In the fusion method that they're using, obviously we don't  have

 a football-sized-field machine creating their fusion, so electro-

 chemical-reaction fusion seems to me very plausible, rather  than

 inertial magnetic confinement.

 

 Lazar:

 Inertial magnetic confinement is garbage, and so is laser fusion.

 It's ridiculous.

 

 Laser  fusion is totally stupid.  The concept is there,  but  the

 materials  aren't, and to start a laser reaction the lasers  have

 to  fire  MANY times a minute.  We can initiate a reaction  --  I

 think  our best laser is Shiva [sp] down at Livermore.   I  think

 that has to cool down for several hours.  It's a tremendous waste

 of money.

 

 Dennis in L.A.:

 I'm a member of the Operating Engineers, Local 12.  I work in the

 Los  Angeles  area.  Is Reynolds Electric part of that  base  out

 there?

 

 Lazar:

 No,  Reynolds  is  not  out  there,  and  neither  is  any  other

 subcontractor -- Reynolds, EG&G --

 

 Dennis:

 Are they up in Tonopah?

 

 Lazar:

 Reynolds is at the Test Site proper, the nuclear test site.   I'm

 not  that familiar.  The highest clearance they can attain is  Q,

 through  REECO and EG&G and those guys.  So the closest they  get

 is down to Area 51 and roam around there.

 

 Gary:

 You  said  you  came  public with  this  information  to  protect

 yourself.

 

 Lazar:

 Yeah.

 

 Gary:

 How  serious  is  this?  What length will the  Government  go  to

 conceal this?

 

 Lazar:

 Oh man, you must be kidding!  Everything possible!  I can't  even

 describe  it.  Any length at all.  I don't even know what to  say

 to answer that.

 

 Gary:

 What's on your horizon now, as far as the Government's concerned?

 Aren't they gonna want to talk to you?

 

 Lazar:

 I think that would be a really strange thing for them to do.  Any

 action on their part right now would guarantee what I'm saying is

 true.  So I think now it's going to be a hands-off policy,  which

 is just absolutely fine with me. That's the only thing I wanted.

 

 It's  only  been  a week since anything has gone  on.   In  fact,

 someone  said,  if they're following me now, it's  to  make  sure

 nothing happens to me.

 

 Gary:

 I heard you speak of Blue Diamond before.  What's going on there?

 

 Lazar:

 I love this subject!  That's where the "vortex" is.  There is  no

 vortex.   Blue Diamond is a place where people gather to look  at

 supposedly  an  entry-way for flying saucers.  They  don't  enter

 through  that.  If you want to see a vortex, I suggest you  flush

 your toilet and look inside.

 

 There's  a  gravity  anomaly  there --  a  slight  difference  in

 gravity,  the gravitational wave there -- but those are all  over

 the place.  It has nothing with anything.

 

 Goodman:

 Is  it  because you know the past record of the  Government,  how

 they  react to situations?  If someone becomes more public,  they

 tend not to do something that would cause them problems?

 

 Lazar:

 No, I don't know that for a fact.  I'm just HOPING that.

 

 Gene Huff (in studio with Lazar):

 Billy,  I think there's a minor misunderstanding here.   I  think

 people  have gotten the impression that he was in "the  program,"

 actively  in  there  and for some reason he  decided  he  was  in

 trouble and just decided to get out.

 

 All of this stems from them beginning not --

 Again, he just went out there on a periodic basis -- more or less

 on  call.  And after he got caught out there showing  John  Lear,

 myself, and the other people the flying saucer tests, after  that

 they debriefed him, and after that they continued to monitor  his

 phone.   His phone was tapped.  And what they wanted to  stop  --

 and why he thinks they might do something -- is, they  THREATENED

 him.  And they called him on the phone and threatened him because

 they were monitoring basically his plan for the exposure of this.

 

 And that's what they wanted to stop.  In fact, we've got the word

 through  the grapevine that they're amazed; they don't know  what

 to  do  because they've never had someone that used  drugs,  used

 hypnosis,  drilled in their head not to come forward  with  this,

 and  they can't believe that a guy actually went  on  television.

 And they're really at a loss for what to do.