3918 lines
124 KiB
Plaintext
3918 lines
124 KiB
Plaintext
SUBJECT: THE UFO CAMOUFLAGE THREAD FILE: UFO3165
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
As I edited this file together I noticed that there was a lot
|
|
more to it than the discussion in the UFO Camouflage? thread. The
|
|
UFO Camouflage? thread had a beginning in another, earlier thread
|
|
(Gulf Breeze-New Angle? ) during a discussion about the black
|
|
helicopters question. It then ran through a short thread called
|
|
Tractors, which discussed the Fyffe,Ala. flying semi-truck and an
|
|
article in the Dec. 90 OMNI that described an incounter with an
|
|
unusual farm tractor. At this time it became the UFO Camouflage?
|
|
thread.
|
|
The discussion runs a gamut of topics, from the technical
|
|
capabilities of the aliens and memory implants to Sitchen's view of
|
|
the solar system to Dorothy Isaac's photographs to the Twin Peaks
|
|
owls to the Hopi end of the world prophecies. I have included parts
|
|
|
|
of some of the other threads that have a connection to the
|
|
Camouflage thread, most notably the Problems with Abductions
|
|
thread. I have also left in the camera information near the end of
|
|
the Camouflage thread as I felt it would be interesting to those
|
|
camera buffs out there. What I edited out were a couple of short
|
|
messages about things that had nothing at all to do with the
|
|
discussions. If I could relate it in any way I left it in.
|
|
As of Jan.11,1991 the UFO Camouflage thread was still running
|
|
strong. I don't know why one thread will run on and on while
|
|
another one dies an early death, only that a forum can not be
|
|
measured by any individual thread. Only be weaving the threads
|
|
together can one truly see the tapestry of the forum.
|
|
Thanks to all who helped make these threads so good.I hope you
|
|
enjoy reading these messages as much as I enjoyed putting them
|
|
together.
|
|
|
|
Terry Rodemerk
|
|
Jan. 15,1991
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#: 73484 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
14-Nov-90 12:13:48
|
|
Sb: #73399-#Gulf Breeze-New Angle?
|
|
Fm: John Hicks 76407,1264
|
|
To: John Horton 74030,2271 (X)
|
|
|
|
Interesting. Seems to me I recently read about a large number of
|
|
black helicopter sightings in the West somewhere. What was odd is
|
|
that frequently the helicopters were other colors than black but
|
|
had no markings, were silent, and oddest of all, sometimes the
|
|
rotors didn't rotate in flight!
|
|
As for Ed, he does seem to be an unlikely hoaxter, but he does
|
|
have a history of photographic practical jokes.
|
|
We haven't been able to figure out a way someone could have been
|
|
giving him something to see. Weather conditions at times rule out
|
|
balloons, kites or R/C saucers.
|
|
|
|
jbh
|
|
|
|
|
|
: 73785 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
16-Nov-90 00:24:44
|
|
Sb: #73484-#Gulf Breeze-New Angle?
|
|
Fm: Terry Rodemerk 76357,405
|
|
To: John Hicks 76407,1264 (X)
|
|
|
|
|
|
John, your talking about black helicopters reminded me of
|
|
something that a fellow I work with told me about his trip to Ohio
|
|
last spring. He and his wife went to an air show at
|
|
Wright-Patterson that was for defense contractor representatives
|
|
(closed to the public). On display was a B-2 stealth bomber that
|
|
was roped off and under guard. As he was looking at it he
|
|
noticed another air craft parked next to it on the other side of
|
|
the display. When he walked around to look at this other craft he
|
|
said that he realized that it was a helicopter. He asked an officer
|
|
standing with the display what type of helicopter this was and was
|
|
told that it was a stealth helicopter. He told me that it was flat
|
|
black and seemed to be made of the same material that the bomber
|
|
was. It had some kind of sound baffles around the top rotors,over
|
|
the engines and down along the rear. That the top rotor did not
|
|
look like a normal set of blades and as far as he could tell there
|
|
was no rear rotor. He said that the craft had no markings and did
|
|
not look like any helicopter he had ever seen before.
|
|
I've known this man for 12 years and he never had reason to make
|
|
up stories. He told me this story and now I tell it to you. Take it
|
|
for what it's worth.
|
|
|
|
?? TR ??
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#: 73841 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
16-Nov-90 12:13:23
|
|
Sb: #73785-#Gulf Breeze-New Angle?
|
|
Fm: John Hicks 76407,1264
|
|
To: Terry Rodemerk 76357,405
|
|
|
|
I've seen a wide assortment of 'black' aircraft at Patrick AFB in
|
|
Florida, from U-2s to OV-10s, so I really don't put much stock on
|
|
the color black. Most had very dark outline-markings that would be
|
|
invisible at any distance.
|
|
I recall seeing something about a ducted-fan chopper (no tail
|
|
rotor) on tv a couple of years ago. Maybe on Nova. At any rate,
|
|
this chopper could just back up into a tree with the main rotor
|
|
sticking above the branches.
|
|
So, anyway, we do have military choppers which appear to fulfill
|
|
the classic black helicopter description.
|
|
I suspect the stealth chopper you saw was a mil. version of the
|
|
chopper I saw on tv. French made, I think. I doubt they're seen
|
|
very often by the public.
|
|
Anyway, what I find really interesting is the incidents in which
|
|
an unknown phenomena seems to imitate a known object, such as a
|
|
helicopter. In the incidents in the West, some of the helicopters
|
|
were black, while some had colorful paint jobs. None of them
|
|
carried any sort of marking or numbers.
|
|
What was really strange is that sometimes there was no sound
|
|
heard, and sometimes the rotors were stationary or absent!
|
|
This is probably connected with the flying semi truck that
|
|
several witnesses saw at Fyffe a while back.
|
|
So it appears that the ufo phenomena (or something) sometimes
|
|
imitates common objects, but either the imitation isn't quite
|
|
correct or the errors are intentional. Maybe the errors are
|
|
intentional in order to get us to pay attention.
|
|
|
|
jbh
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#: 73861 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
16-Nov-90 15:49:14
|
|
Sb: #73785-Gulf Breeze-New Angle?
|
|
Fm: mike 70003,4667
|
|
To: Terry Rodemerk 76357,405
|
|
|
|
You know, I suppose, that rear rotors (which provide a torque to
|
|
counteract rotation of the chopper body caused by conservation of
|
|
angular momentum, which shares the total between the fast-spinning,
|
|
low mass blades and the fuselage) are no longer necessary. A duct
|
|
carries air--either generated directly by the blade wash or by
|
|
another engine, I'm not sure--to a vectorable duct at the end
|
|
of the tail boom, and the reaction force counteracts the tendency
|
|
of the chopper to spin counter to the blades.
|
|
|
|
This cuts down on noise, gets rid of a dangerous moving part, and
|
|
adds to maneuverability.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#: 74235 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
18-Nov-90 02:30:22
|
|
Sb: #73841-Gulf Breeze-New Angle?
|
|
Fm: Terry Rodemerk 76357,405
|
|
To: John Hicks 76407,1264
|
|
|
|
|
|
I didn't see the copter myself, it was a friend at work who seen
|
|
it and told me about it. I wish I had seen it though, sounds
|
|
interesting.
|
|
The non-turning rotors might be an optical illusion caused by a
|
|
flashing running light on top. Kind of like a strobe light effect,
|
|
if seen at night, or the sun flashing off them if seen by day at a
|
|
distance.
|
|
I have noticed that ability to appear like a common object also.
|
|
It seems to come up in many reports that the objects looked like
|
|
something other than what they were. That came out alot in
|
|
Intruders and Missing Time, though they don't try to hid there
|
|
appearence when they buzz military bases. Clear Intent showed
|
|
that well enough. I must admit that I know little about Fyffe and
|
|
the flying truck. That's a pretty strange thing to want to look
|
|
like even for this bunch ;)
|
|
Now this brings up a question I have been thinking about since
|
|
I got back into this stuff a couple years ago. If the beings can
|
|
make us see what they want us to see, how do we know that the
|
|
abducties descriptions of the beings are right? Couldn't these
|
|
descriptions be only of what the abducties were allowed to see?
|
|
|
|
BTW, of all the books and files I've read lately, Hopkins first
|
|
book Missing Time is the one that really gave me a cold chill down
|
|
my back. I don't know what it is but it is so much different than
|
|
the other books on the subject,so much more bizzare( Copper's files
|
|
not withstanding :) ). How did it strike you?
|
|
|
|
** TR **
|
|
|
|
#: 74236 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
18-Nov-90 02:30:28
|
|
Sb: #73841-Gulf Breeze-New Angle?
|
|
Fm: Terry Rodemerk 76357,405
|
|
To: John Hicks 76407,1264
|
|
|
|
|
|
> Maybe the errors are intentional in order to get us to pay
|
|
attention.
|
|
|
|
Interesting thought. Maybe they have already figured out that
|
|
humans don't pay attention to details so their not to worried that
|
|
anyone will notice that the Zayers store their ship is pretending
|
|
to look like went out of business last year <g>. Who knows, they
|
|
might make some money while their here :-)
|
|
|
|
$$ TR $$
|
|
|
|
#: 74251 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
18-Nov-90 05:21:21
|
|
Sb: #73841-Gulf Breeze-New Angle
|
|
Fm: Terry Ecker 71207,1165
|
|
To: John Hicks 76407,1264
|
|
|
|
RE: "...the UFO phenomena (or something) sometimes imitates common
|
|
objects, but either the imitation isn't quite correct or...":
|
|
|
|
I'm sure Rex has told you, as he has told Anne and me, about
|
|
witnesses who have seen airborne semi-trailers that looked and
|
|
sounded perfectly normal, except that they were not attached to a
|
|
tractor or other visible means of locomotion - just trailers
|
|
trailing through the nearby sky behind nothing.
|
|
|
|
Terry
|
|
|
|
|
|
#: 74237 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
18-Nov-90 02:30:36
|
|
Sb: #73861-Gulf Breeze-New Angle?
|
|
Fm: Terry Rodemerk 76357,405
|
|
To: mike 70003,4667
|
|
|
|
|
|
You konw Mike,I spoke to some other people about this and a
|
|
couple of them said the same thing. Funnel some of the air from the
|
|
front rotor and some of the engine exhust out the back of the tail
|
|
for stability instead of a rear rotor. Eliminates a lot of
|
|
mechanical break-down points and a dangerous prop. Makes a lot of
|
|
sense and is probably a normal design advancement.
|
|
|
|
__TR__
|
|
|
|
#: 74252 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
18-Nov-90 05:21:36
|
|
Sb: #73861-Gulf Breeze-New Angle?
|
|
Fm: Terry Ecker 71207,1165
|
|
To: mike 70003,4667
|
|
|
|
mike:
|
|
|
|
Whatever you said there was probably right, but the way I learned
|
|
it as a student pilot, and later taught it as a flight instructor,
|
|
strikes me as easier to understand and therefore of more practical
|
|
use: For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
|
|
Since an airplane's propeller spins to the right (as seen by the
|
|
pilot sitting behind it), the airplane wants to spin to the left.
|
|
We compensate for that by designing and building enough excess lift
|
|
into the left wing that, at cruising speed, the excess lift of the
|
|
left wing causes enough right turn tendency to offset the left turn
|
|
tendency caused by the torque of the propeller. At less than
|
|
cruising speed, e.g., during takeoff and/or when climbing, we have
|
|
to supplement the left wing's extra lift with right rudder. At more
|
|
than normal cruising speed we have to offset the left wing's extra
|
|
lift with left rudder. In a helicoptor we accomplish the same end
|
|
with a tail rotor. It just makes life easier, not to mention
|
|
longer.:-)
|
|
|
|
Terry
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#: 74431 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
18-Nov-90 23:23:05
|
|
Sb: #73861-Gulf Breeze-New Angle?
|
|
Fm: John W. Dougherty 74017,3142
|
|
To: mike 70003,4667
|
|
|
|
There was a segment on the ducted fan helicopter on Beyond 2000
|
|
about a year ago. The machine is impressive, highly manueverable,
|
|
and has a larger than normal tail boom. Thrust from the main fan
|
|
is ducted through louvered ports in the boom to counter rotor
|
|
torque and manuever the machine. The opening of the port louvers
|
|
is variable, controlled by the pilot.
|
|
|
|
JD
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#: 74530 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
19-Nov-90 11:58:15
|
|
Sb: Stealth Helicopters
|
|
Fm: Peggy Noonan 71760,1140
|
|
To: Terry Ecker 71207,1165 (X)
|
|
|
|
Terry, forgive my butting in, but the Stealth Helicopter is
|
|
fascinating. Did.you ever learn more about it? Mysterious black
|
|
"disappearing" helicopters seem to have been associated with all
|
|
the cattle mutilation phenomena, and I recall reading lots of local
|
|
reports of people saying they'd seen strange looking silent black
|
|
helicopters...they were very sincere, but not very much believed
|
|
because "there is no such thing." But if there IS...wow!
|
|
|
|
==PN==
|
|
|
|
#: 74532 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
19-Nov-90 12:16:50
|
|
Sb: #74235-Gulf Breeze-New Angle?
|
|
Fm: John Hicks 76407,1264
|
|
To: Terry Rodemerk 76357,405
|
|
|
|
> The non-turning rotors might be an optical illusion caused by
|
|
> a flashing running light on top. Kind of like a strobe light
|
|
> effect, if seen at night, or the sun flashing off them if seen
|
|
> by day at a distance.
|
|
|
|
Could be, although I believe these were generally close.
|
|
|
|
> BTW, of all the books and files I've read lately, Hopkins first
|
|
> book Missing Time is the one that really gave me a cold chill
|
|
> down my back.
|
|
|
|
Yeah, that book was rather interesting.
|
|
|
|
> flying truck. That's a pretty strange thing to want to look
|
|
like
|
|
> even for this bunch ;)
|
|
That was a message to a certain person, so I've been told, and
|
|
the content has been confirmed. Unfortunately, I can't reveal my
|
|
source
|
|
without his approval.
|
|
|
|
jbh
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#: 74533 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
19-Nov-90 12:16:55
|
|
Sb: #74251-Gulf Breeze-New Angle?
|
|
Fm: John Hicks 76407,1264
|
|
To: Terry Ecker 71207,1165 (X)
|
|
|
|
> have seen airborne semi-trailers that looked and sounded
|
|
perfectly normal,
|
|
|
|
I've been told by a man named Phil (I think you know who) that
|
|
the flying trailer was a message to a TV journalist who had
|
|
childhood
|
|
dreams of a flying semi *tractor*.
|
|
I have no reason to doubt that since the info could potentially
|
|
be confirmed or denied.
|
|
|
|
jbh
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#: 74558 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
19-Nov-90 16:24:29
|
|
Sb: #74237-Gulf Breeze-New Angle?
|
|
Fm: mike 70003,4667
|
|
To: Terry Rodemerk 76357,405
|
|
|
|
Exactly how it's done.
|
|
|
|
#: 74566 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
19-Nov-90 16:35:51
|
|
Sb: #74252-#Gulf Breeze-New Angle?
|
|
Fm: mike 70003,4667
|
|
To: Terry Ecker 71207,1165 (X)
|
|
|
|
Right. And in addition to the design economy afforded by the switch
|
|
from tail rotor countertorque in the chopper to vectorable ducted
|
|
boom,
|
|
I think the
|
|
boom has a slight airfoil cross-section that the wash lifts in the
|
|
direction counter to the chopper's spin tendency.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#: 74567 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
19-Nov-90 16:41:03
|
|
Sb: #74566-Gulf Breeze-New Angle?
|
|
Fm: mike 70003,4667
|
|
To: mike 70003,4667 (X)
|
|
|
|
But maybe not. I'll sue for patent on that idea if someone uses it.
|
|
:-)
|
|
|
|
#: 74747 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
20-Nov-90 10:28:24
|
|
Sb: #73785-Gulf Breeze-New Angle?
|
|
Fm: Steve Mechels 71021,3217
|
|
To: Terry Rodemerk 76357,405
|
|
|
|
This was probably a mock up of the new LHX (Light Helicopter -
|
|
Experimental) that is being developed for the Army. I have seen
|
|
photo's
|
|
of it and it is just as you describe. It is being developed by
|
|
Boeing.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#: 75386 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
23-Nov-90 09:33:34
|
|
Sb: #74235-Gulf Breeze-New Angle?
|
|
Fm: Peggy Noonan 71760,1140
|
|
To: Terry Rodemerk 76357,405
|
|
|
|
TR-re your comment about "Them" being able to appear as common
|
|
objects and the question of how valid our descriptions of them are
|
|
if
|
|
indeed they're only letting us see what they want us to see, the
|
|
Dec.
|
|
OMNI magazine has one item about a UFO masquerading (?) as a
|
|
tractor.
|
|
If you get a chance to see the item, I'd like to know what you
|
|
think of
|
|
it.
|
|
==PN==
|
|
|
|
#: 75387 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
23-Nov-90 09:33:47
|
|
Sb: #74251-Gulf Breeze-New Angle?
|
|
Fm: Peggy Noonan 71760,1140
|
|
To: Terry Ecker 71207,1165
|
|
|
|
Terry, In your Nov 18 message to John Hicks, you said (to
|
|
paraphrase) many witnesses had reported airborne semi-trailers that
|
|
looked and sounded perfectly normal except for the fact that they
|
|
were
|
|
in the sky and not attached to any visible device that would
|
|
account for
|
|
their movement (assuming anything *could.*) This is a new one on
|
|
me.
|
|
I've never heard about the semis in the sky. Can you suggest a
|
|
source
|
|
where I can learn more about this very odd phenom? Thanks.
|
|
==Peggy==
|
|
|
|
|
|
#: 74955 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
21-Nov-90 11:29:41
|
|
Sb: #74790-Gulf Breeze Saga
|
|
Fm: John Hicks 76407,1264
|
|
To: Bruce Walter 76056,1452 (X)
|
|
|
|
None I can think of right off in Florida, but I do believe many
|
|
of the Alabama sightings could be a triangular or wing-shaped
|
|
object.
|
|
|
|
jbh
|
|
|
|
|
|
#: 75537 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
24-Nov-90 01:32:42
|
|
Sb: #75386-Gulf Breeze-New Angle?
|
|
Fm: Terry Rodemerk 76357,405
|
|
To: Peggy Noonan 71760,1140
|
|
|
|
|
|
Peggy, I will get a copy of Dec. OMNI this weekend and read the
|
|
article. This business about things not looking like what they
|
|
really
|
|
are seems to be a new (last 10 yrs. or so) twist to the stories.
|
|
Why
|
|
would they want to do this when they can already make people forget
|
|
what
|
|
happened to them anyway? Appears to me to be two separate attemps
|
|
to
|
|
confuse the witnesses.
|
|
Speaking of Dyslexia, I must have transposed letters in ever word
|
|
of this message the first time I spelled each word :)
|
|
|
|
-- TR --
|
|
|
|
#: 75539 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
24-Nov-90 01:32:56
|
|
Sb: #74533-#Gulf Breeze-New Angle?
|
|
Fm: Terry Rodemerk 76357,405
|
|
To: John Hicks 76407,1264 (X)
|
|
|
|
|
|
> ... the flying tractor was a message ...
|
|
|
|
John, is this tractor message the same tractor as in the OMNI
|
|
stroy that Peggy N. asked me to read? I haven't read the story yet
|
|
but
|
|
thought this was quite the coincidence that you mention a tractor
|
|
in
|
|
your message of the 19th (which I am just getting to answer <g> )
|
|
and
|
|
Peggy's message to me about a story of a tractor in OMNI.
|
|
|
|
__ TR __
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#: 75583 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
24-Nov-90 11:19:11
|
|
Sb: #75539-Gulf Breeze-New Angle?
|
|
Fm: John Hicks 76407,1264
|
|
To: Terry Rodemerk 76357,405
|
|
|
|
> John, is this tractor message the same tractor as in the OMNI
|
|
> stroy that
|
|
It probably is. I've only heard of one flying semi incident, and
|
|
that was at Fyffe.
|
|
|
|
jbh
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#: 75641 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
24-Nov-90 16:13:22
|
|
Sb: #75387-Gulf Breeze-New Angle?
|
|
Fm: Terry Ecker 71207,1165
|
|
To: Peggy Noonan 71760,1140
|
|
|
|
Peggy:
|
|
|
|
The only specific incident I'm aware of the one John mentionee:
|
|
Pfyfe, Alabama. I got the impression from Rex Salisberry that there
|
|
are
|
|
other, similar cases. If you like I'll Email you Rex and Carol's
|
|
phone
|
|
number.
|
|
|
|
Terry
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#: 77007 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
30-Nov-90 08:28:33
|
|
Sb: #UFO Camouflage?
|
|
Fm: Peggy Noonan 71760,1140
|
|
To: Terry Rodemerk 76357,405
|
|
|
|
That's what I wondered too, about the "UFOs" not looking like what
|
|
they are...if they can erase people's memories and build in all
|
|
that
|
|
blockage that hypnotists work so hard to beat, why then would they
|
|
bother with camouflage? Too many reports say things like "yep, they
|
|
landed right there in that New York City park, climbed out, took
|
|
some
|
|
little spoon like things and scooped up some earth, climbed back in
|
|
and
|
|
flew away" which is obviously NO attempt at concealment...so why
|
|
try to
|
|
look like a semi or a tractor?
|
|
|
|
(And about the dyslexia--a thing worth doing is worth doing
|
|
weel...wwel...wlel... :-) ) ==PN==
|
|
|
|
|
|
#: 77013 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
30-Nov-90 09:40:37
|
|
Sb: #77007-#UFO Camouflage?
|
|
Fm: Russ Ranshaw (CIS) 70000,1010
|
|
To: Peggy Noonan 71760,1140 (X)
|
|
|
|
Peggy,
|
|
|
|
Maybe the "camouflage" is an artifact of their other mental
|
|
manipulations? In other words, say a witness sees a UFO, and the
|
|
UFO
|
|
beams an energy burst which erases the actual memory of seeing the
|
|
UFO,
|
|
but the events _surrounding_ that memory are left intact. Now
|
|
there is
|
|
a gap in the witness' memory, which is "filled in" in order to
|
|
produce
|
|
a continuous memory stream. This is the sort of thing which
|
|
happens
|
|
when we dream. Some stream of thoughts occur in our sleep which our
|
|
conscious mind translates into a series of "remembered" images,
|
|
emotions, etc.
|
|
|
|
-Russ
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#: 77029 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
30-Nov-90 10:55:58
|
|
Sb: #77013-UFO Camouflage?
|
|
Fm: Peggy Noonan 71760,1140
|
|
To: Russ Ranshaw (CIS) 70000,1010
|
|
|
|
Russ, What an interesting idea! Good thinking. It sounds very
|
|
logical
|
|
to me and very credible.
|
|
|
|
I wonder if there's any way to (1) establish that there is a
|
|
vacancy in
|
|
that section of memory or (2) unravel the thread of "filler" that's
|
|
been
|
|
left in the vacancy's place...i.e., backtrack to discover whether
|
|
the
|
|
filler was indeed a memory or just a mask or fill-in-the-blank
|
|
image
|
|
such as you suggested.
|
|
The concept of false memory is a fascinating one. When I spoke to
|
|
a researcher in Texas recently about deja vu, he described an
|
|
center in
|
|
the brain which "overlays" a sense of familiarity onto a totally
|
|
new
|
|
event--that is, something happens which has never happened to you
|
|
before
|
|
but at that moment it occurs, this familiarity center fires too and
|
|
makes this new event feel and seem like a true memory. One way to
|
|
test
|
|
it, he said, was to interrupt the event...For instance, if you're
|
|
having
|
|
a conversation with someone and he says to you, "I know exactly
|
|
what
|
|
you're going to say because this all happened before in exactly
|
|
this
|
|
way," (and he sincerely believes that is true), you could interrupt
|
|
the
|
|
process by answering, "All right, if you do know what I'm going to
|
|
say,
|
|
write it down here on this paper." He'll gladly take the paper and
|
|
move to write, but then he'll find there is no actual memory at all
|
|
and he'll be puzzled...why can't he remember now when just a second
|
|
ago
|
|
he could? Because it's only the overlay triggered by the
|
|
familiarity
|
|
center, not a truly familiar event. On the other hand, this same
|
|
researcher also said precognition and deja vu really do exist and
|
|
there
|
|
are ways to verify.
|
|
|
|
Maybe this alien erasure of memory or the mask memory or the filled
|
|
in gap you suggest is related to something like the incorrectly
|
|
perceived deja vu the researcher spoke of?
|
|
==PN==
|
|
|
|
|
|
#: 77317 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
01-Dec-90 23:07:15
|
|
Sb: #77029-UFO Camouflage?
|
|
Fm: Russ Ranshaw (CIS) 70000,1010
|
|
To: Peggy Noonan 71760,1140
|
|
|
|
Peggy,
|
|
|
|
Hmmm. The "familiarity center" sounds interesting. Some how, I
|
|
just _knew_ you were going to mention it! :)
|
|
|
|
I haven't had a deja vu recently. Well, some mild ones, mostly in
|
|
shopping malls or other crowded places. That could be becuse those
|
|
places usually find me in a "ho hum" state of mind.
|
|
|
|
I used to have frequent deja vu experiences in my younger days.
|
|
When I was in college, they happened a lot. On in particular
|
|
happened
|
|
in an English Composition class. I suddenly "knew" that the
|
|
instuctor
|
|
was going to get mad over something (not at all unusual) and slam
|
|
her
|
|
book down on the lecturn (very unusual). I felt so strongly about
|
|
it
|
|
that I wrote in in downmy notes. Sure enough, about a minute later
|
|
she
|
|
slammed her book down and yelled at someone about not being
|
|
attentive to
|
|
her words of wisdom. No, it wasn't me she yelled at! :) So I guess
|
|
this
|
|
was a "true" deja vu, maybe?
|
|
|
|
Huh. I wonder if the "familiarity center" could work backwords
|
|
sometimes. That is, in a truly familiar situation, it fails to be
|
|
triggered an you feel "out of phase" or something. I get that
|
|
sometimes.
|
|
|
|
Regarding the recovery of "zapped" memory segments, I think that is
|
|
possible, perhaps via hypnosis. I just happened to think that
|
|
perhaps
|
|
the "flying tractor" memory may not be the result of an erased
|
|
memory,
|
|
rather a dulled one. Who knows? At least it's fun to discuss! :)
|
|
|
|
-Russ
|
|
|
|
|
|
#: 77651 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
03-Dec-90 02:07:32
|
|
Sb: #77029-UFO Camouflage?
|
|
Fm: Terry Rodemerk 76357,405
|
|
To: Peggy Noonan 71760,1140
|
|
|
|
Peggy, I think that Russ is on to a good line of thought here
|
|
too. I can't find my old psychology 101 book, but I do remember
|
|
something about screen memories being mentioned. If I got this
|
|
right
|
|
they are memories that the mind creates to cover or replace other
|
|
memories that a person is unable to handle or come to grips with.
|
|
This
|
|
usually happens to a person who has had a trumatic <sp?> experience
|
|
of
|
|
some kind or another. I think abduction qualifies as a trumatic
|
|
experience.
|
|
I've been following the UFO story since the early 60's and of
|
|
all the wierdness this camouflage business has always struck me as
|
|
a
|
|
different kind of wierdness. It's never seemed to fit with the rest
|
|
of
|
|
the stuff. To me it would be like rowing a boat from the US to
|
|
Europe
|
|
and then putting on a cow costume and going around Europe
|
|
pretending to
|
|
be a cow. WHY? If you've just spent a whole lot of time and energy
|
|
rowing across the Atlantic why pretent your a cow! But now that I
|
|
am
|
|
thinking about screen memory again it makes more sense that the
|
|
camouflage is something the victims (for want of a better word)
|
|
have created themselfs after the fact.
|
|
|
|
[More]
|
|
|
|
#: 77652 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
03-Dec-90 02:07:41
|
|
Sb: #77029-UFO Camouflage?
|
|
Fm: Terry Rodemerk 76357,405
|
|
To: Peggy Noonan 71760,1140
|
|
|
|
[Continued]
|
|
Now before everybody jumps on me let me say that this does not
|
|
account for all the camouflage reports. I'm not saying it is not
|
|
happening,just that a lot of it would be a waste of time to begin
|
|
with.
|
|
The flying semi in Fyffe was probably created as reported. John
|
|
Hicks
|
|
said earlier that it was a message for someone.
|
|
I read the article about the Tractor in OMNI (good issue) and
|
|
that sounds like a screen memory. Those folks seen something they
|
|
DID
|
|
NOT WANT to see. What they wanted to see was just a plain old
|
|
tractor in
|
|
the field and that is what they remember. Hopkins should look into
|
|
this
|
|
one. What did you think about this Peggy?
|
|
I believe that a couple of the books ( I don't know which
|
|
offhand) talk about screen memories also. If anyone else know about
|
|
screen memory I would like to hear from them. My memory (screen or
|
|
otherwise :-) ) is rusty about it.
|
|
|
|
-- TR --
|
|
|
|
#: 77830 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
03-Dec-90 21:54:39
|
|
Sb: #77317-UFO Camouflage?
|
|
Fm: Heather Kuhn 76314,572
|
|
To: Russ Ranshaw (CIS) 70000,1010 (X)
|
|
|
|
RE: Deja vu in malls
|
|
|
|
Isn't it awfully hard to tell one mall from another? Confusing an
|
|
unfamiliar mall with a familiar wouldn't be that difficult I'd
|
|
think.
|
|
|
|
RE: The English Comp Class
|
|
|
|
I think that qualifies as a precog rather than deja vu. You knew it
|
|
was going happen before it did. Deja vu is thinking you recognize
|
|
something you've never perceived before.
|
|
|
|
RE: Not recognizing something familiar
|
|
|
|
Yes, it does happen. The phenomenon is called, appropriately
|
|
enough, "jamais vu."
|
|
|
|
RE: Hypnosis
|
|
|
|
It can help you recover lost memories, but it can also cause you to
|
|
fabricate new ones that seem genuine, a process called
|
|
"confabulation."
|
|
People under hypnosis believe the memories are real, but careful
|
|
checking may show that they aren't.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#: 77655 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
03-Dec-90 02:08:01
|
|
Sb: #Tractors
|
|
Fm: Terry Rodemerk 76357,405
|
|
To: John Hicks 76407,1264 (X)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Hi John, when is the last time you heard so much talk about
|
|
tractors outside of a John Deer dealer and now we have two
|
|
different
|
|
tractor stories at the same time. One semi type, one farm type.
|
|
Sounds pretty spooky to me ;) .
|
|
|
|
-- TR --
|
|
|
|
|
|
#: 77714 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
03-Dec-90 11:17:17
|
|
Sb: #77655-Tractors
|
|
Fm: John Hicks 76407,1264
|
|
To: Terry Rodemerk 76357,405
|
|
|
|
Aren't you meaning the farm tractor as a screen memory? I think
|
|
the semi trailer (the tractor was in a childhood dream of the
|
|
important
|
|
witness) was, I think, actually seen rather than being a screen
|
|
memory.
|
|
|
|
jbh
|
|
|
|
|
|
#: 78128 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
05-Dec-90 01:28:43
|
|
Sb: #77714-Tractors
|
|
Fm: Terry Rodemerk 76357,405
|
|
To: John Hicks 76407,1264 (X)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Yes, that is what I meant. The farm tractor described in the OMNI
|
|
article I felt was a screen memory to cover whatever it was that
|
|
frightened the witnesses. The semi tractor trailer seemed to be a
|
|
projection of some sort meant to be seen by the witness. I just
|
|
thought
|
|
it odd that within a few days the board talked about two different
|
|
events where the witnesses used the word tractor to describe what
|
|
they
|
|
seen, real or imaginary. I shouldn't have said John Deer in
|
|
reference to
|
|
the tractors. Sometimes what sounds right doesn't translate well to
|
|
the
|
|
written word.
|
|
Sorry for the confusion :-)
|
|
|
|
__ TR __
|
|
|
|
|
|
#: 78581 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
07-Dec-90 09:44:02
|
|
Sb: #77317-#UFO Camouflage?
|
|
Fm: Peggy Noonan 71760,1140
|
|
To: Russ Ranshaw (CIS) 70000,1010 (X)
|
|
|
|
Russ, What interesting points you raised!
|
|
|
|
If there's really a familiarity center to overlay the "it's
|
|
happened
|
|
before" feeling atop a new experience, it seems logical that there
|
|
should also be the opposite which you proposed. How else to
|
|
account for
|
|
the common but inexplicable sense of "out of phase" you noted.
|
|
--And
|
|
here I thought I was the only one off kilter! :)
|
|
|
|
I still don't know what to think about deja vu. Experiences like
|
|
the one you described with the irate teacher can't be explained by
|
|
a
|
|
false sense of the familiar, but have to be accounted for by some
|
|
other-than-normal (at least normally recognized, not necessarily
|
|
abnormal in the sense of what is natural and what is not)
|
|
explanation.
|
|
Maybe it's a glimpse into the future that some people are fortunate
|
|
enough to perceive. Or maybe the ever-time idea is valid and
|
|
certain
|
|
events have strong enough "waves" in the flow of time that
|
|
sensitive
|
|
people can feel the ripples before they come to that point in
|
|
actual
|
|
time. Or maybe we're all on an endless, repeating loop, doing the
|
|
same life sentences over and over again, but sometimes we remember
|
|
what's happened before... Endless speculations, I guess.
|
|
|
|
I think I'd rather have deja vu/precognitive "memories" than flying
|
|
tractor images!
|
|
==PN==
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#: 78607 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
07-Dec-90 10:41:34
|
|
Sb: #78581-#UFO Camouflage?
|
|
Fm: Russ Ranshaw (CIS) 70000,1010
|
|
To: Peggy Noonan 71760,1140 (X)
|
|
|
|
Peggy,
|
|
|
|
I always remind myself of the "more things in heaven and earth"
|
|
quote from The Bard. My father used to say that if we knew
|
|
everything
|
|
we don't know, and didn't know anything we do know, we'd know more
|
|
than
|
|
we do. Probably true.
|
|
|
|
There are metaphysical schools of thought which state that there is
|
|
no time. Or, rather, that what we perceive as "time" is an illusion
|
|
which is cast upon what we perceive as the physical universe. That
|
|
is,
|
|
in our three dimensional universe time is a necessary element for
|
|
its
|
|
comprehension. The Edgar Cayce readings atate that the three
|
|
dimensions
|
|
are time, space, and patience. Time is a measure of our
|
|
understanding
|
|
of an idea; space is a measure of our understanding of the
|
|
relationship
|
|
between ideas; patients is a measure of our acceptance of
|
|
responsibility
|
|
for our past actions.
|
|
|
|
The Seth material indicates that there is only the Now, that what
|
|
we
|
|
believe to be "Past, Present, and Future" are all happening
|
|
simultaneously. If one considers time to be a dimension, then by
|
|
moving
|
|
orthogonally to the time axis one can perceive the entire infinity
|
|
of
|
|
time at once, just as moving above a flat surface opens its entire
|
|
expanse for observation. As a crude illustration of this concept,
|
|
consider a boat moving down a river. Ahead of the boat the river
|
|
curves
|
|
around a high hill, or mountain. We can think of the river as the
|
|
flow
|
|
of time. From the boat, we can only perceive what is around us.
|
|
But if
|
|
we got into a balloon and floated up high enough, we could not only
|
|
see
|
|
the boat's current position, but look ahead and notice the water
|
|
fall on
|
|
the other side of the mountain, which is in the boat's "future."
|
|
|
|
-Russ
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#: 78613 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
07-Dec-90 11:44:37
|
|
Sb: #78607-UFO Camouflage?
|
|
Fm: mike 70003,4667
|
|
To: Russ Ranshaw (CIS) 70000,1010
|
|
|
|
In case you're interested, we're having a heated peripheral
|
|
discussion
|
|
of time in one of the many Twin Peaks threads in section 1 of the
|
|
DTPFORUM. I've been invoking Eliot, Augustine, Einstein, and
|
|
Feynman. A
|
|
fun thread. Started when I started arguing against sequentiality
|
|
and our
|
|
assumption that time is a river, or a tape, or a continuum
|
|
(Newton's old
|
|
gizmo that "flows equably onward, w/o regard to anything
|
|
external"), or
|
|
even a =thing= for that matter, since our basic question, What is
|
|
Time,
|
|
is a consequence of the noun-verb form in English, the
|
|
existence/identity linking verb from Indo-European, and so on.
|
|
You're free to drag in the Whorff-Sapir hypothesis if you want....
|
|
Science has given us relativity of simultaneity (spacelike and
|
|
timelike events); philosophy has given us headaches and turned the
|
|
problem over to science (which many mistakenly believe has
|
|
supplanted
|
|
philosophy), and the poet.W.S. Merwin, whose idea of time is not
|
|
rigorously stated but very peculiar, gave me a start at one of his
|
|
rare
|
|
readings in the 48 states when, in response to my question, "So
|
|
what do
|
|
you think about time and what other people believe about time," he
|
|
answered that it confuses him and that there are many more
|
|
assumptions
|
|
about time at large in our culture than we're willing to admit,
|
|
most of
|
|
them without any justifying evidence.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#: 78585 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
07-Dec-90 09:45:23
|
|
Sb: #77651-UFO Camouflage?
|
|
Fm: Peggy Noonan 71760,1140
|
|
To: Terry Rodemerk 76357,405
|
|
|
|
Terry, Yes, I think you've got some good points about the screen
|
|
memories, the flying semis and the Omni tractor. About the books
|
|
that
|
|
spoke of screen memories, I am still puzzled by Whitley Strieber's
|
|
screen "owl" memories. He gave the explanation (as I recall it)
|
|
that it
|
|
must be that the mind or the mind-doctors (depending on whether you
|
|
think your own head created the screen memory or the aliens did)
|
|
selecting something harmless and normal to cover the scary memory,
|
|
and
|
|
in case any of the real memory might leak through the screen
|
|
memory,
|
|
they've selected an image that's similar to what was actually seen.
|
|
In
|
|
his case, the owls had big and haunting eyes, like the aliens had.
|
|
When he talked about driving in his car and seeing the mysterious
|
|
huge
|
|
owls in other vehicles going down the highway, it struck me as very
|
|
weird. Very.
|
|
|
|
If he was seeing "them," as he suggested (screen memory covers the
|
|
aliens which are too scary to remember), why would they be driving
|
|
in a
|
|
car where he was? And if he was seeing owls, why would there be
|
|
enormous owls in a car either? Makes a person think he had one too
|
|
many
|
|
stressful encounters before he got behind the wheel that day.
|
|
|
|
What you say about the folks in OMNI who remembered the tractor
|
|
seems
|
|
logical to me. There's too much tension in the way they describe
|
|
the
|
|
event for it to be wholly imaginary, so it must be a screen for
|
|
whatever
|
|
really happened. Makes sense that they'd fill in the blank with a
|
|
nice
|
|
safe memory of a tractor which is a whole lot easier to cope with
|
|
than
|
|
UFOs in the field.
|
|
|
|
Doesn't make sense, though, that the aliens themselves would create
|
|
the elaborate camouflages...as you said, why pretend you're a cow?
|
|
Of
|
|
course, it could be *our* error that makes us expect better from
|
|
them
|
|
(if
|
|
there is a them)--we think that if they can invent whatever travel
|
|
method they have, which is beyond our abilities, then they must
|
|
also be
|
|
able to do everything else better too.
|
|
|
|
[More]
|
|
|
|
#: 78586 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
07-Dec-90 09:45:51
|
|
Sb: #77651-UFO Camouflage?
|
|
Fm: Peggy Noonan 71760,1140
|
|
To: Terry Rodemerk 76357,405
|
|
|
|
[Continued]
|
|
But why couldn't they be gifted at one thing and klutzy at another?
|
|
|
|
We, for instance, can build vehicles to get ourselves and our junk
|
|
into
|
|
space but we cannot figure out how to neutralize our nuclear or
|
|
ordinary
|
|
waste without soiling our nest. Mucho dumb, no? If, as some
|
|
propose,
|
|
the aliens are either the future us or the guys who genetically
|
|
engineered and thus semi-fathered us, then we ought to be similar
|
|
not
|
|
only physically but also cognitively. So maybe they could be as
|
|
dumb in
|
|
some areas as we are.
|
|
|
|
Or, if you take the side some UFO books propose--that the aliens
|
|
are technologically superior but totally baffled by our perceptions
|
|
and
|
|
emotions, then maybe they just don't understand our mechanisms well
|
|
enough to devise a *good* camouflage. You've seen those articles
|
|
where
|
|
children tell "how to cook a turkey for thanksgiving" and they come
|
|
up
|
|
with recipes like "first get a turkey and then gooosh up some bread
|
|
and
|
|
about a pound of salt and some cranberries and bake one minute and
|
|
it's
|
|
done." They've got the roughest general idea of the concept, but
|
|
their
|
|
ability to perceive details is so limited that they cannot "make
|
|
up" a
|
|
recipe that's plausible to someone who knows how it's really done.
|
|
Maybe the aliens (if any) are like that--they only see the
|
|
superficial
|
|
and because they don't really understand, they don't know how
|
|
ludicrous
|
|
some of the screens they construct must be. Instead of inputting
|
|
a
|
|
screen that'll defuse the tension of an encounter memory, they
|
|
input a screen that's so off kilter that it calls attention to
|
|
itself.
|
|
|
|
I like your analogy of going around Europe pretending to be a cow!
|
|
|
|
And, yes, I'd like to see Budd Hopkins go into this too. There was
|
|
a
|
|
clipping in UFONS (Nov issue) about Hopkins (from the Standard,
|
|
London,
|
|
July 18) in which he says he's documented more than 300 individual
|
|
cases
|
|
of aliens stealing human babies and "disappeared" pregnancies. Now
|
|
that's spooky! Three *hundred* cases! ==PN==
|
|
|
|
#: 78589 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
07-Dec-90 09:46:22
|
|
Sb: #77830-#UFO Camouflage?
|
|
Fm: Peggy Noonan 71760,1140
|
|
To: Heather Kuhn 76314,572 (X)
|
|
Heather, I saw your reply to Russ about the deja vu events and
|
|
wondered
|
|
if you'd missed the earlier messages about the San Antonio, Texas,
|
|
researcher who said that there were four explanations for deja vu
|
|
as
|
|
most people recognize it--false memory, actual deja vu (it really
|
|
did
|
|
happen before), precognition, and paranormal (things like you're
|
|
tapping
|
|
into a past life recollection or ghost,etc.) So your idea on his
|
|
English class experience being precognitive fits in perfectly with
|
|
the
|
|
researcher's explanations. Confabulation was also included, though
|
|
I
|
|
don't think we talked much about it here.
|
|
|
|
How did you come to know about jamais vu? Is there a source book
|
|
you'd recommend?
|
|
|
|
Thanks.
|
|
==Peggy Noonan==
|
|
|
|
|
|
#: 78765 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
08-Dec-90 02:04:22
|
|
Sb: #78589-UFO Camouflage?
|
|
Fm: Heather Kuhn 76314,572
|
|
To: Peggy Noonan 71760,1140 (X)
|
|
|
|
I saw a reference to "jamais vu" in an issue of the Skeptical
|
|
Inquirer,
|
|
but finding the reference is a bit tricky as I have a stack of
|
|
issues
|
|
to hunt through. Before you ask, I am less convinced than a lot of
|
|
the
|
|
CSICOP people that paranormal experiences ALL have mundane
|
|
explanations.
|
|
I've have a few weird things happen to me, mostly involving Tarot
|
|
cards,
|
|
so I'm inclined to be open minded. If I do locate the article, I'll
|
|
post
|
|
the sources it used.
|
|
|
|
I don't normally think of pre-cog as being a deja vu experience,
|
|
but if
|
|
it's included in a researcher's definition, I guess I'll have to
|
|
get
|
|
used to the idea. I may have missed the msgs or skimmed through
|
|
them
|
|
quickly because I don't remember that item.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#: 78591 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
07-Dec-90 09:46:37
|
|
Sb: #78128-#Tractors
|
|
Fm: Peggy Noonan 71760,1140
|
|
To: Terry Rodemerk 76357,405
|
|
|
|
Interesting, though, that you did say *John Deer* -- remember the
|
|
story
|
|
in the books about Betty Andreaason Lucas and the sightings she
|
|
had/encounters with aliens, one of which involved a deer in the
|
|
woods?
|
|
So we've got a tractor-semi, tractor-farm, John Deere manufacturer
|
|
and
|
|
dear -antlers variety- in the woods... the connectedness of
|
|
things--random curiosities? or think-links?
|
|
|
|
==PN==
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#: 78614 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
07-Dec-90 11:44:42
|
|
Sb: #78591-Tractors
|
|
Fm: mike 70003,4667
|
|
To: Peggy Noonan 71760,1140 (X)
|
|
You left out the deer in Russ's story and the mysterious deer head
|
|
on
|
|
the table in Twin Peaks early last season, a series which has taken
|
|
a
|
|
decidedly strange turn into the paranormal, OBEs, NDEs, multiple
|
|
bodies,
|
|
screen memories, nonsequential time, and other odd stuff.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#: 79173 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
10-Dec-90 11:35:27
|
|
Sb: #78947-#Mental Interpretation
|
|
Fm: John Hicks 76407,1264
|
|
To: CosmicThAng/SanBernardCA 73200,3613 (X)
|
|
|
|
Something you said about genetic memories triggered a thought.
|
|
What about the idea that abductions are really occuring, but not
|
|
for
|
|
the usual supposed reasons. Could be that the abductors are showing
|
|
us
|
|
our (human) origins?
|
|
Something to think about.........
|
|
|
|
jbh
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#: 78948 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
09-Dec-90 04:43:22
|
|
Sb: #78581-UFO Camouflage?
|
|
Fm: CosmicThAng/SanBernardCA 73200,3613
|
|
To: Peggy Noonan 71760,1140 (X)
|
|
|
|
Maybe the individual human mind creates the image of expectation,
|
|
and it
|
|
is subconsciously and psychically related to the subject (the
|
|
teacher
|
|
slamming the book down after precognitive image of same action)
|
|
|
|
#: 79075 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
10-Dec-90 00:13:05
|
|
Sb: #78585-UFO Camouflage?
|
|
Fm: Jim Shaffer, Jr. 72750,2335
|
|
To: Peggy Noonan 71760,1140 (X)
|
|
|
|
Waitaminit. OWLS? As in "Twin Peaks"? Gee, if the writers of
|
|
that
|
|
show are taking things from Whitley Strieber, it could get even
|
|
weirder
|
|
than I imagined!
|
|
As a matter of fact it might anyway. This week it looks like one
|
|
of the
|
|
characters is about to get picked up by aliens. He previously had
|
|
told
|
|
Dale Cooper that he worked for the government in a top-secret
|
|
position,
|
|
and that he was responsible for tracking messages from space. And
|
|
he
|
|
was about to tell Cooper about something called the "White Lodge."
|
|
Made
|
|
me dig out the Krill file and double-check my memory.
|
|
|
|
Yikes!
|
|
|
|
<grin>
|
|
--Jim
|
|
|
|
#: 79153 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
10-Dec-90 10:06:55
|
|
Sb: #78765-UFO Camouflage?
|
|
Fm: Russ Ranshaw (CIS) 70000,1010
|
|
To: Heather Kuhn 76314,572 (X)
|
|
|
|
Heather,
|
|
|
|
The Edgar Cayce readings say that nothing happens in our lives that
|
|
is
|
|
not first shown in our dreams. This could provide a
|
|
possibleexplanation
|
|
for some deja vu experiences, where one's conscious awareness
|
|
merges
|
|
with the subconscious memory of that dream.
|
|
|
|
Oh, the readings also say that nearly all dreams are presented in
|
|
symbolic form, so the merging of the conscious/subconscious would
|
|
be on
|
|
a deeper level than actual events/objects/etc. Jung would probably
|
|
say
|
|
that such spontaneous associations were at the universal symbol
|
|
level.
|
|
|
|
-Russ
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#: 79583 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
11-Dec-90 23:32:08
|
|
Sb: #78607-UFO Camouflage?
|
|
Fm: Peggy Noonan 71760,1140
|
|
To: Russ Ranshaw (CIS) 70000,1010
|
|
|
|
Russ, Your fascinating message about the coexisting times was very
|
|
thought-provoking. Now I'm going to have to go back and read Cayce
|
|
again to see what I missed by skimming before. I haven't read the
|
|
Seth
|
|
material yet, but it sounds like a lot of the sci-fi I used to
|
|
devour
|
|
covered basically the same idea. Remember those stories of the
|
|
ever-continuing time traveller who keeps meeting himself at every
|
|
stage
|
|
of his journey? Boggling. Your boat down the river analogy was
|
|
excellent--very good way to visualize the concept.
|
|
|
|
==PN==
|
|
|
|
PS--Don't miss Unsolved Mysteries this Wednesday on NBC--sounds
|
|
like a
|
|
good one.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#: 79727 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
12-Dec-90 09:22:33
|
|
Sb: #79583-UFO Camouflage?
|
|
Fm: Russ Ranshaw (CIS) 70000,1010
|
|
To: Peggy Noonan 71760,1140
|
|
|
|
Peggy,
|
|
|
|
You have to dig pretty deep into Cayce's readings to get to it. You
|
|
might try contacting the A.R.E. and getting some books by Everet
|
|
Irion.
|
|
One of his books is called (I think) "Vibrations" and deals with
|
|
the
|
|
time, space, patience concept. Everet was treasurer for eons, and
|
|
worked closely with the readings for many years. They also have a
|
|
complete cross-reference index to the readings, and you can ask the
|
|
library to check for specific subjects for you. Edgar gave over
|
|
15,000
|
|
readings, averaging ten pages or so, making a lot of material to
|
|
sort
|
|
through!
|
|
|
|
-Russ
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#: 80333 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
14-Dec-90 13:09:03
|
|
Sb: #79583-UFO Camouflage?
|
|
Fm: Sue Forslev 72320,71
|
|
To: Peggy Noonan 71760,1140
|
|
|
|
Peggy -
|
|
|
|
I saw unsolved mysteries Wednesday. I wasn't impressed with the
|
|
UFO's.
|
|
When Dorothy Isaacs photographs something in front of a camera crew
|
|
that
|
|
no one else can see... sounds very suspicious to me.
|
|
|
|
Sue
|
|
|
|
#: 80373 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
14-Dec-90 17:33:42
|
|
Sb: #79075-#UFO Camouflage?
|
|
Fm: CosmicThAng/SanBernardCA 73200,3613
|
|
To: Jim Shaffer, Jr. 72750,2335
|
|
|
|
Waitaminit waitaminit. I only watched Twin Peaks once. Does it
|
|
have an
|
|
alien sub-plot?????!!! Tell me--I'll be a regular. Seriously, is
|
|
it
|
|
lookin that way??
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#: 80390 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
14-Dec-90 18:40:09
|
|
Sb: #80373-UFO Camouflage?
|
|
Fm: Michael Houdeshell 70003,4667
|
|
To: CosmicThAng/SanBernardCA 73200,3613
|
|
|
|
Yes.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#: 80375 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
14-Dec-90 17:33:56
|
|
Sb: Tractors
|
|
Fm: CosmicThAng/SanBernardCA 73200,3613
|
|
To: Peggy Noonan 71760,1140
|
|
|
|
One of my "recalled" abductions, with STRONG, very bizarre normal,
|
|
conscious memories (& multiple witnesses) surrounding it, involved
|
|
two
|
|
deers in the woods. It was hunting season. Hiked all day from
|
|
dawn to
|
|
dusk. Never saw a deer. Heard gunshots. At dusk, barely got out
|
|
before
|
|
dark (got dark quicker than expected!!!).
|
|
|
|
I said "well, congratulations deers, you've made it through another
|
|
day alive!" The very SPLIT!! second the "ve" in alive came out of
|
|
my
|
|
mouth, two deer sprinted up the hill from a point roughly three
|
|
feet
|
|
from where me and my three friends were standing. The bush wasn't
|
|
dense
|
|
and there was still some light, but we had not seen or heard a word
|
|
from
|
|
the deer until the "ve" in alive. We were all speechless for
|
|
seconds.
|
|
|
|
Another potential, unregressed, abduction: being with a friend and
|
|
seeing two deer walking at night through the very center of the
|
|
city of
|
|
Columbia, Missouri. I mean the very center: alleys and concrete
|
|
and
|
|
surrounded by freeways or four lane divided highways, and they were
|
|
casually browsing through town with no fear or concern--nor even
|
|
surprise at the artificial environment.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#: 80494 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
15-Dec-90 02:22:18
|
|
Sb: #80197-#problems with abductions
|
|
Fm: Terry Ecker 71207,1165
|
|
To: Steven Mizrach 73750,462 (X)
|
|
|
|
Steven:
|
|
|
|
RE: "Their captors displayed amazingly humanlike emotions of
|
|
surprise
|
|
and concern...":
|
|
|
|
These are not, IMHO, "humanlike" but "animal-like" emotions.
|
|
Surely
|
|
you have seen dogs, cats and other animals display obvious surprise
|
|
and
|
|
concern, as well as the other emotions that we erroneously call
|
|
"human".
|
|
|
|
"... And, like all UFOnauts, did not appear to have any form of
|
|
life
|
|
support system, indicating that they had the extreme (good) fortune
|
|
to
|
|
enjoy the same atmosphere, climate, gravity, and conditions of life
|
|
that
|
|
we do.
|
|
|
|
"If the purpose of the aliens is to breed with our race, any
|
|
biologist
|
|
can tell them they are doomed to failure. Their offspring, like the
|
|
mule, will be sterile, unless their number of chromosomes is the
|
|
same as
|
|
ours (Aha!). If they are in fact unfamiliar with our culture, why
|
|
is it
|
|
that some of our cultural symbols, such as a winged serpent or two
|
|
interlocking circles (the vesica piscis) turns up on their craft as
|
|
insignias? Why are the 'screen memories' they utilize often symbols
|
|
of
|
|
great mythical importance, such as the owl or the bee?":
|
|
Well, I don't know. But a fellow named Zecharia Sitchin has spent
|
|
more than thirty years seeking answers to those and such additional
|
|
related
|
|
[More]
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#: 80495 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
15-Dec-90 02:22:35
|
|
Sb: #80494-#problems with abductions
|
|
Fm: Terry Ecker 71207,1165
|
|
To: Terry Ecker 71207,1165 (X)
|
|
[Continued]
|
|
|
|
questions as:
|
|
|
|
1. Why do those credible persons who say they have been in or
|
|
seen
|
|
materials from within crashed UFOs say that their instruments are
|
|
labeled with what look like hieroglyphics?
|
|
|
|
2. How did the ancient Sumerians appear suddenly, without any
|
|
prehistory, it the full bloom of an advanced civilization, aware of
|
|
the
|
|
nature, shape and size of our solar system and galaxy, with a
|
|
calendar
|
|
so accurate that it allowed for precession, and knowing not only -
|
|
as we
|
|
have only lately learned - that there are nine planets, but that in
|
|
fact
|
|
there is a tenth planet - called Niribu by the Sumerians and Marduk
|
|
by
|
|
the Babylonians - that we have yet to discover, and for which our
|
|
astronomers currently are searching feverishly in the vicinity of
|
|
Orion?
|
|
|
|
3. Why did the Sumerians call Earth the "seventh planet"? Of
|
|
course,
|
|
they were ancient = ignorant. We know that Earth is the *third*
|
|
planet
|
|
- counting outward from the Sun. But if one entered our solar
|
|
system
|
|
from outside, one would encounter first Pluto, second Neptune,
|
|
third
|
|
Uranus (all three known to the Sumerians), fourth Saturn, fifth
|
|
Jupiter,
|
|
sixth Mars, and *seventh*, Earth.
|
|
|
|
But that, according to Sitchin, is only the order of the nine
|
|
currently known planets since the "creation of the heavens and the
|
|
Earth" by the
|
|
|
|
[More]
|
|
|
|
|
|
#: 80496 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
15-Dec-90 02:22:54
|
|
Sb: #80495-#problems with abductions
|
|
Fm: Terry Ecker 71207,1165
|
|
To: Terry Ecker 71207,1165 (X)
|
|
|
|
[Continued]
|
|
|
|
collision of the moons of the captured planet Niribu/Marduk with
|
|
the
|
|
planet Tiamet, which once orbited the Sun in what is now the
|
|
asteroid
|
|
belt. The collision sheared Tiamet in half. One half became what
|
|
are now
|
|
the asteroids and numerous comets. The other half, with Tiamet's
|
|
principle moon, which almost had attaind planethood itself, was
|
|
hurled
|
|
into a new orbit as our Earth, accompanied by its aborted-planet
|
|
Moon.
|
|
|
|
According to Sitchin, the collision also seeded Earth (nee
|
|
Tiamet)
|
|
with life, i.e. spores of the life of Niribu/Marduk which, having
|
|
been
|
|
captured by our solar system, now orbits the Sun in a 12 degree
|
|
inclined, elliptical 3,600 Earth-year orbit. Meanwhile, life on
|
|
Earth
|
|
evolved more or less identically to life on Niribu/Marduk, with
|
|
local
|
|
environmental variations.
|
|
|
|
I won't attempt to explain Sitchin's hypothesis within the length
|
|
limits of a forum message. It took him five books to ask and
|
|
explore
|
|
your and his questions and present his hypothesis based on
|
|
archeology
|
|
and language, and extensive analysis of ancient texts, notably the
|
|
Bible
|
|
and its precursors among the Sumerians, the Babylonians, the
|
|
Akkadians,
|
|
the Hittites, the Egyptians and the Hebrews - all of whom tell the
|
|
same
|
|
story with increasing condensation and editing.
|
|
|
|
If you're that interested you can get an analysis of the
|
|
questions and
|
|
a clear presentation of Sitchin's hypothesis by reading only the
|
|
first
|
|
and last of his "Earth Chronicles" books: "The Twelfth Planet"
|
|
(actually
|
|
the
|
|
|
|
[More]
|
|
|
|
|
|
#: 80497 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
15-Dec-90 02:23:06
|
|
Sb: #80496-#problems with abductions
|
|
Fm: Terry Ecker 71207,1165
|
|
To: Terry Ecker 71207,1165 (X)
|
|
|
|
[Continued]
|
|
|
|
tenth planet, but the Sumerians called the Sun and the Moon
|
|
planets,
|
|
plus ten planets = twelve.) (1976), and *Genesis Revisited* (1990).
|
|
The
|
|
books between them (*Stairway to Heaven*, *The Lost Realms*, *The
|
|
Wars
|
|
between Gods and Men*) provide details and extensive scholarly
|
|
citations.
|
|
|
|
It's only a hypothesis, of course, but it is very well and
|
|
persuasively done, and is based upon ancient literature and modern
|
|
scholarship with physical evidence offered only in support, rather
|
|
than
|
|
vice versa a la von Danikin and other nonscholars of the "ancient
|
|
astronaut" ilk. Furthermore, current events *appear* to be
|
|
confirming
|
|
his (and John Lear's, for that matter) predictions.
|
|
|
|
If nothing else it's a damned good read.
|
|
|
|
Terry
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#: 80637 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
15-Dec-90 19:46:07
|
|
Sb: #80497-problems with abductions
|
|
Fm: Steven Mizrach 73750,462
|
|
To: Terry Ecker 71207,1165 (X)
|
|
|
|
Terry:
|
|
I have read Sitchin, and am familiar with his hypothesis. But
|
|
what
|
|
bothers me about the ancient astronaut hypothesis is as follows:
|
|
many
|
|
cultures have their legends of culture bearers from the stars,
|
|
whether
|
|
they be Oannes in Sumeria, the Nommoi of the Dogon tribe in Mali,
|
|
Quetzelcoatl in Mexico, or others. Unfortunately, in many of those
|
|
legends the culture bearers also came from the sea, by land from
|
|
the
|
|
North (a common motif), or from underground. If one really believes
|
|
civilization was delivered, on a silver platter, from friendly
|
|
folks
|
|
from outer space, it does humanity a grave injustice. I do believe
|
|
that
|
|
the encounter with UFOs is an ongoing relationship that has been
|
|
going on for years, but the Space Brother belief system needs to be
|
|
revised. Whatever UFOs are, they can kill, and have done so. And
|
|
they
|
|
continue to deliver their magnificent messages, leading humans
|
|
around by
|
|
the nose, telling us that we are their genetic product, and
|
|
meanwhile
|
|
playing absurd, stupid games with us. I take nothing the UFOnauts
|
|
tell
|
|
us at face value, especially when they insist that they were
|
|
responsible
|
|
for civilization in Egypt and Sumeria and elsewhere. The Great
|
|
Phonograph in the Sky has been sounding that tune for way too long.
|
|
|
|
#: 80498 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
15-Dec-90 02:23:19
|
|
Sb: #80333-UFO Camouflage?
|
|
Fm: Terry Ecker 71207,1165
|
|
To: Sue Forslev 72320,71
|
|
|
|
Sue:
|
|
|
|
I saw (and taped) the UM segment, too, and Re: "When Dorothy
|
|
Isaacs
|
|
photographs something in front of a camera crew that no one else
|
|
can
|
|
see... sounds very suspicious to me.":
|
|
|
|
I have to agree, but I also have to remember the startling
|
|
photograph
|
|
taken by Brenda Pollack in Gulf Breeze in front of several
|
|
witnesses.
|
|
None of them, including Brenda, saw anything except an anomolous
|
|
and
|
|
rather dim light in the mostly overcast sky. But when she developed
|
|
the
|
|
film, the resulting photograph looked remarkably like Dorothy
|
|
Isaacs's
|
|
bizarre photographs. Captured on film, the rather dim anomolous
|
|
light
|
|
became what looked like a multicolored, segmented worm trying to
|
|
twist
|
|
and shake itself off of a fishhook in the sky.
|
|
|
|
Don't prove nothing, except that whatever was photographed wasn't
|
|
faked.
|
|
|
|
Terry
|
|
|
|
|
|
#: 80811 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
16-Dec-90 14:38:24
|
|
Sb: UFO Camouflage?
|
|
Fm: Jim Lierzer 74405,1103
|
|
To: Jim Shaffer, Jr. 72750,2335
|
|
Jim,
|
|
Do you think it's mere coincidence that Lynch decided to name the
|
|
FBI
|
|
agent "Cooper?" I think that Lynch is subliminally trying to tell
|
|
us
|
|
that Milton "Bill" Cooper is in reality a secret government agent
|
|
himself, sent to infiltrate the UFO community and divide it with
|
|
mounds
|
|
of blatently absurd misinformation. <g>.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#: 80515 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
15-Dec-90 03:13:20
|
|
Sb: UFO Camouflage?
|
|
Fm: Terry Rodemerk 76357,405
|
|
To: Peggy Noonan 71760,1140
|
|
|
|
|
|
Hi Peggy. I finally got a chance to read my message backlog. Sure
|
|
was
|
|
a lot of stuff there :) Hope you were able to download Treeto ok.
|
|
I was
|
|
downloading it the other night and got disconnected somewhere.
|
|
Still
|
|
don't have it. Will try again this weekend.
|
|
|
|
You make many good points about the intelligence of the aliens.
|
|
A
|
|
person can be a college graduate and still be as dumb as a brick
|
|
when it
|
|
comes to common sense and street smarts. In all my reading these
|
|
critters demonstrate an advanced technology but not near as
|
|
advanced as
|
|
many give them credit for. I have always felt that they are only
|
|
about
|
|
300 years ahead of us technically. Think about how far we have come
|
|
in
|
|
100 years and where we'll be 300 years from now. Why shouldn't they
|
|
be
|
|
able to create an image that is correct in details after all the
|
|
time
|
|
they have been hanging around the Earth? Their computers should be
|
|
capable of this now.
|
|
Could it be that their not as intelligent as they would like us
|
|
to
|
|
beleive? Most people can drive a car but how many can build or fix
|
|
one.
|
|
Why should flying a UFO be harder than driving a car. They can fly
|
|
them
|
|
but they can't build or fix them. Which brings me to another
|
|
question,
|
|
why do some people think that UFO's can't come in more than one or
|
|
two
|
|
shapes or styles? Look in any parking lot or car lot and tell me
|
|
how
|
|
many different shapes,styles and colors of vehicles you see. We
|
|
can't be
|
|
the only planet with design engineers.
|
|
[More]
|
|
|
|
#: 80516 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
15-Dec-90 03:13:32
|
|
Sb: #UFO Camouflage?
|
|
Fm: Terry Rodemerk 76357,405
|
|
To: Peggy Noonan 71760,1140
|
|
[Continued]
|
|
You mentioned the alien baby stealing ring. As the story goes,
|
|
their
|
|
here to save their dying race by by genetically splicing human
|
|
genes
|
|
into their genes ( or something like that ). By human medical
|
|
knowlege
|
|
this is not possible. Cross breeding is another story. Alien/human
|
|
babies impregnated in human mothers for the first trimester then
|
|
removed
|
|
and returned to the aline ships to be brought up as aliens is an
|
|
excellent way to create human looking aliens for infiltration into
|
|
human
|
|
society.
|
|
Bring the mother back about a year later and show her the now
|
|
growing child and tell her she needs to show them how to love. Get
|
|
the
|
|
mother to feel a special bond with the child and now there is at
|
|
least
|
|
one human who will protect this hybrid alien if the need should
|
|
ever
|
|
arise.
|
|
|
|
Sorry, I'm being cynical tonight. It's just that I can't shake
|
|
the feeling that these visitors are on the whole misrepresenting
|
|
themself. I don't know if I have ever meet any of them personally,
|
|
but
|
|
I just don't trust them. The Indians probably said the same thing
|
|
about
|
|
the English :-)
|
|
|
|
Later,
|
|
Terry
|
|
|
|
|
|
#: 80580 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
15-Dec-90 13:47:33
|
|
Sb: #80516-#UFO Camouflage?
|
|
Fm: Terry Ecker 71207,1165
|
|
To: Terry Rodemerk 76357,405
|
|
|
|
Terry:
|
|
|
|
According to a doctor who allegedly participated in the autopsies
|
|
of
|
|
the alien bodies from the Roswell crash, the "greys" are
|
|
vegetables.
|
|
|
|
According to Zecharia Sitchin (*Genesis Revisited*), our most
|
|
ancient
|
|
religious texts tell us that the Nefelim, i.e. astronauts from the
|
|
planet Marduk, created man "in their own image" by splicing their
|
|
genes
|
|
wih those of an apewoman in southern Africa, specifically to
|
|
develop an
|
|
intelligent work animal to mine gold for them (their reason for
|
|
being
|
|
here).
|
|
It has been in the news recently that scientists are saying that
|
|
all
|
|
humankind traces its ancestry to a single female ancestor in
|
|
southern
|
|
Africa.
|
|
|
|
Sitchin speculates that maybe the greys are android servants of
|
|
the Nefelim.
|
|
|
|
Weigh that.
|
|
|
|
Terry
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#: 80630 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
15-Dec-90 18:46:46
|
|
Sb: #80580-UFO Camouflage?
|
|
Fm: Mort 72411,235
|
|
To: Terry Ecker 71207,1165 (X)
|
|
|
|
Terry, I weighed that -- though not invited to do so, I admit --
|
|
and
|
|
found that theory ethnocentric to say the least. [C But it's fun,
|
|
anyway!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#: 80673 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
15-Dec-90 22:59:38
|
|
Sb: #problems with abductions
|
|
Fm: Steven Mizrach 73750,462
|
|
To: ALL
|
|
|
|
UFO Abductions Weirdness: A second level reading
|
|
The marks left on the bodies of the abductees seem more akin to
|
|
the geometric ritual marks of the masons' and the witches'. The
|
|
'sexual'
|
|
encounters are taken right out of succubus and faery lore, down to
|
|
the
|
|
mists used as aphrodisiacs. The 'medical' procedures seem too
|
|
macabre,
|
|
almost akin to the ritual incisions and mutilations performed by
|
|
tribal
|
|
cultures on their medicine men to signify their 'dismemberment' and
|
|
'rebirth.' The changes of vocation of abductees are striking - they
|
|
almost always either are haunted by strange dreams, divorce their
|
|
wives,
|
|
lose their jobs, and are changed for the worse; or their Iq
|
|
skyrockets,
|
|
they develop new interests in the occult, and manifest new talents
|
|
and
|
|
abilities. There is more to the abduction experience than meets the
|
|
eye.
|
|
Strieber particularly points this out with the visitors, who, like
|
|
proper hierophants, not only showed him the present, but also made
|
|
him
|
|
aware of the reality of death and showed him the future.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#: 80765 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
16-Dec-90 09:16:37
|
|
Sb: #80673-problems with abductions
|
|
Fm: Mort 72411,235
|
|
To: Steven Mizrach 73750,462 (X)
|
|
|
|
I think you have to come down to the "which came first, the chicken
|
|
or
|
|
the egg" question. Did "lore" come from UFOs or do present-day
|
|
"explanations" of civilization springing from UFOnauts derive from
|
|
human-generated legend? It seems to me that the UFONauts spring
|
|
from
|
|
legend, not the other way around. All "new" inventions and all
|
|
human
|
|
thought derive from what went before; when space travel even on our
|
|
present level became possible, then spacebeings became the "answer"
|
|
to
|
|
the mystery of the origins of intelligent life on earth. Are there
|
|
UFOs?
|
|
Sure. Are there beings on tghem? Possibly. Do we come from the
|
|
stars?
|
|
Maybe. Is it likely? Not if we talk about conscious implants. How
|
|
do I
|
|
"know" all this? I don't. But my guess is as good as anyone
|
|
else's.....
|
|
|
|
|
|
#: 80928 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
17-Dec-90 02:42:39
|
|
Sb: #80580-UFO Camouflage?
|
|
Fm: Terry Rodemerk 76357,405
|
|
To: Terry Ecker 71207,1165 (X)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Hi Terry. That's quite the theory Sitchin has there. I have not
|
|
read
|
|
his books so I don't know more than what you told me,but it sounds
|
|
like
|
|
Sitchin's aliens should be about 100,000+ years ahead of us. The
|
|
beings
|
|
visiting us now don't seem to be that far advanced. You would think
|
|
that
|
|
in 100,000 years they would learn to be subtle :)
|
|
It sounds like an interesting set of ideas. I'll look into his
|
|
books.
|
|
It's always good to hear a different viewpoint on this subject. I
|
|
get
|
|
tired of the Cooper/Lear school of thought. I can think of a number
|
|
of
|
|
reasons for them being here that have nothing to do with genetics,
|
|
either then or now.
|
|
|
|
Terry
|
|
|
|
|
|
#: 81038 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
17-Dec-90 15:57:25
|
|
Sb: #80497-problems with abductions
|
|
Fm: Michael Houdeshell 70003,4667
|
|
To: Terry Ecker 71207,1165 (X)
|
|
|
|
But Terry:
|
|
|
|
If there were ten planets, wouldn't the Earth be number 8, counting
|
|
inward?
|
|
|
|
And how would life on the captured planet, Marduk, have developed,
|
|
since
|
|
it evidently wandered into our solar system from elsewhere? I mean,
|
|
out
|
|
in interstellar space, how would the organic molecules develop, and
|
|
just
|
|
what are the chances for such a collision? Not to mention the
|
|
problem of
|
|
a wandering planet having a prolific ecosystem, which I'd imagine
|
|
is a
|
|
prerequisite of intelligent life--no point using that angle to get
|
|
to
|
|
the top of the food chain if there's no food chain.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#: 81230 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
18-Dec-90 02:42:11
|
|
Sb: #problems with abductions
|
|
Fm: Terry Ecker 71207,1165
|
|
To: Terry Ecker 71207,1165
|
|
|
|
[Continued]
|
|
|
|
became the asteroids that inhabit the former orbit of Tiamet and
|
|
the
|
|
comets that cling to our Sun in their eliptical but measurable and
|
|
predictable orbits. One of Tiamet's - or some other planet's
|
|
-sattelites
|
|
- was thrown into its own new declinated orbit around the Sun and
|
|
became
|
|
the minor planet Pluto.
|
|
|
|
The other half of Tiamet, accompanied by it almost-but-not-quite-
|
|
planet chief satelitte, was hurlned into a new and previously
|
|
unoccupied
|
|
orbit between Mars and Jupiter, and from that time onward would be
|
|
the
|
|
*seventh* planet encountered by a visitor approaching Earth from
|
|
outside
|
|
our solar system
|
|
|
|
The rest of your question, regarding how life might have
|
|
developed in
|
|
interstellar space, is beyond my ability to comprehend, let alone
|
|
explain.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
There are 2 Replies.
|
|
|
|
#: 81281 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
18-Dec-90 10:39:02
|
|
Sb: #81230-problems with abductions
|
|
Fm: Russ Ranshaw (CIS) 70000,1010
|
|
To: Terry Ecker 71207,1165
|
|
|
|
Terry,
|
|
|
|
That sounds a lot like what Velikovsky wrote. I'll have to get
|
|
those books!
|
|
-Russ
|
|
|
|
|
|
#: 81301 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
18-Dec-90 12:03:49
|
|
Sb: #81230-problems with abductions
|
|
Fm: Michael Houdeshell 70003,4667
|
|
To: Terry Ecker 71207,1165
|
|
|
|
Hmmmm...this whole scenario smells of epicycles.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#: 81441 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
19-Dec-90 00:47:46
|
|
Sb: #80333-UFO Camouflage?
|
|
Fm: CosmicThAng/SanBernardCA 73200,3613
|
|
To: Sue Forslev 72320,71 (X)
|
|
Bizarrely enough, that is not uncommon. One of my *conventional*
|
|
conscious sightings was of a hovering low craft in the Louisana
|
|
bayou
|
|
directly over oncoming traffic. Myself and my companion seemedc to
|
|
be
|
|
the *ONLY* people who saw it, though it was large and obvious and
|
|
hovering RIGHT over the road, and produced smoke, and was
|
|
**TOTALLY**
|
|
silent!!!!!
|
|
|
|
Of the abductees I have met, similar reports are not uncommon.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#: 81791 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
20-Dec-90 14:23:03
|
|
Sb: #81440-UFO Camouflage?
|
|
Fm: Michael Houdeshell 70003,4667
|
|
To: CosmicThAng/SanBernardCA 73200,3613 (X)
|
|
|
|
For a dark version, try J.G. Ballard--there's a story in one of the
|
|
anthologies of his work in which astronauts must endlessly go on a
|
|
voyage in which they die but return...over and over.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#: 81795 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
20-Dec-90 14:53:31
|
|
Sb: UFO Camouflage?
|
|
Fm: Peggy Noonan 71760,1140
|
|
To: CosmicThAng/SanBernardC 73200,3613 (X)
|
|
|
|
Cos, Sorry to be so late replying to your Dec 9 message. You've
|
|
got a
|
|
very good theory there about the anticipation of an event perhaps
|
|
having
|
|
a triggering effect. That's something I've pondered about for some
|
|
while... sort of a which came first, the chicken or the egg, type
|
|
of
|
|
thought-line.
|
|
==PN==
|
|
|
|
#: 81895 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
20-Dec-90 22:09:43
|
|
Sb: #80673-problems with abductions
|
|
Fm: CosmicThAng/SanBernardCA 73200,3613
|
|
To: Steven Mizrach 73750,462
|
|
|
|
The abductee marks I have seen are usually simple lines--hairlines,
|
|
actually. The "sexual" encounters are totally a-sexual and I've
|
|
never
|
|
heard of "mists used as aphrodisiacs" before. The medical
|
|
procedures
|
|
are strange,but simply clinical--nothing very mystical about
|
|
sterile
|
|
clinicians.
|
|
|
|
As far as life changes by abductees. SURE, I think that losing it
|
|
or
|
|
becoming stronger and wiser is a standard human reaction to any
|
|
stressful experience, particularly attitude-altering ones. Don't
|
|
underestimate the power of the human animal to grow and change
|
|
independent of active, direct exterior intervention.
|
|
|
|
|
|
23-Dec-90 11:48:33
|
|
Sb: UFO Camouflage?
|
|
Fm: Peggy Noonan 71760,1140
|
|
To: Sue Forslev 72320,71
|
|
|
|
Sue, You're so right about the Unsolved Mysteries episode. I
|
|
thought it
|
|
was going to be something "important" but if she's the only one who
|
|
could get those results--despite the man who says he saw the same
|
|
thing--then it's pretty hard to buy. Not that it couldn't be true,
|
|
but
|
|
it raises a very arched skeptical eyebrow. In fact, all the $$$
|
|
she's
|
|
put into production of photos makes it look more like a super
|
|
marketing
|
|
gimmick than a serious investigation. Some of the photos were
|
|
pretty
|
|
and the patterns they showed were interesting, but there was no
|
|
explanation of the method of production or why patterns were
|
|
amplified
|
|
in particular ways. Squiggly light could be anything. Pretty, but
|
|
not
|
|
necessarily any more significant than what I'd get by "oopsing" my
|
|
own camera.
|
|
|
|
==PN==
|
|
|
|
#: 82550 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
23-Dec-90 11:49:04
|
|
Sb: UFO Camouflage?
|
|
Fm: Peggy Noonan 71760,1140
|
|
To: Terry Rodemerk 76357,405
|
|
|
|
Terry, Wow! What a lot of good thought went into this message!
|
|
|
|
I like the theories about intelligence of aliens...another good
|
|
parallel
|
|
is television--we all watch it, but how many of us understand how
|
|
it
|
|
works or how to fix it. And, if we were to be required on the spur
|
|
of
|
|
the moment to produce a, say, hologram of a TV from our memory, the
|
|
stored data we've accumulated about the device after living
|
|
intimately
|
|
with it for zillions of hours, we could probably conjure up a
|
|
superficially nice looking set, but could we get the details right?
|
|
Would the back of the set be correct? Or would there be fuzzy
|
|
grayed
|
|
out areas where our lack of attention to percieving and then
|
|
recreating
|
|
detail left gaps?
|
|
|
|
I once taught a class--not as a teacher but a guest--and asked
|
|
everyone
|
|
in the room to draw a common figure from memory, no skill or
|
|
artistic
|
|
talent required, the object was to see how well we look at things,
|
|
how
|
|
well we observe and recollect observation. It was amazing how
|
|
varied
|
|
peoples' perceptions were.
|
|
|
|
Why couldn't the same be true for aliens. I mean, gee, if we can't
|
|
even
|
|
recreate a common, everyday, much-used and well known object like
|
|
a TV,
|
|
why should they be better? Maybe they're superb technicians but
|
|
lousy
|
|
artists???
|
|
Or maybe they can build great vehicles but their holography is
|
|
primitive? The explanation for their faulty UFO camouflage could
|
|
be in
|
|
there somewhere...
|
|
Another thought occurs, though. Suppose, for a blink of a thought
|
|
here,
|
|
that the guys driving these UFOs did *not* create them. How could
|
|
they
|
|
get them? Well, they could've inherited a superior technology, sort
|
|
of
|
|
like the end of the Greek civilization, for instance, where the
|
|
best and
|
|
brightest were long gone but the relics and artifacts they created
|
|
remained to be used by the decadent vestiges of their culture (the
|
|
statue as a hat rack, maybe, if they wore hats...okay, as a wreath
|
|
of
|
|
laurel rack then). Those people using the inherited goodies --
|
|
|
|
[More]
|
|
|
|
#: 82551 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
23-Dec-90 11:49:29
|
|
Sb: UFO Camouflage?
|
|
Fm: Peggy Noonan 71760,1140
|
|
To: Terry Rodemerk 76357,405
|
|
|
|
[Continued]
|
|
(continuing) Those people using the inherited goodies would be no
|
|
better
|
|
at the "works" of the stuff than we are at operating a cotton gin
|
|
or
|
|
loom or harvesting willow bark to create aspirin-like potions.
|
|
|
|
But maybe it's not the decadent vestiges. Okay, where else could
|
|
they
|
|
get the ships they didn't invent? How about conquest? We have
|
|
enough
|
|
examples in human history of conquerors reaping the benefits of a
|
|
superior technology which happened not to be accompanied by
|
|
superior
|
|
warmaking skills. That is, the guys who are the best inventors and
|
|
creators aren't necessarily the same guys who are the best warriors
|
|
and
|
|
if somebody rougher and tougher and meaner comes along and takes
|
|
your
|
|
high-tech gadgetry, he gets to use it. But he doesn't have to know
|
|
how
|
|
to use it well. Maybe he can only figure out the rudimentary
|
|
basics but
|
|
hasn't got the hang of how the "image creator" button works yet,
|
|
sort of
|
|
like junior watching Daddy drive and knowing about turn signals,
|
|
accelerators and brakes, but because it's an automatic
|
|
transmission, he
|
|
didn't get the idea about shifting so he can't be very versatile
|
|
yet.
|
|
|
|
And, yet another possible source of non-self-generated
|
|
tech...Honest
|
|
Klatu's Used UFO Lot. Why not? We market and sell stuff to more
|
|
primitive cultures. Why couldn't "They" be as good at merchandizing
|
|
as
|
|
they are at inventing? And some clodulous culture with less
|
|
finesse
|
|
than the originators then buys the UFOs and just isn't quite good
|
|
enough
|
|
to use all the accessories that come with warp drive and
|
|
disappear-buttons.
|
|
|
|
Hmmm....
|
|
==PN==
|
|
|
|
#: 82552 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
23-Dec-90 11:49:57
|
|
Sb: UFO Camouflage?
|
|
Fm: Peggy Noonan 71760,1140
|
|
To: Terry Rodemerk 76357,405
|
|
|
|
Terry,
|
|
Interesting thoughts about the alien baby-stealing ring, too...
|
|
|
|
I think a healthy distrust is the only sane policy here. *If* they
|
|
exist and *if* they are engaged in hybridization with humans, there
|
|
would be no logical reason to assume that their motives would be
|
|
anything we could comprehend or would approve. *Maybe* they're
|
|
just a
|
|
bunch of swell fellas who happen to look a little different than we
|
|
do
|
|
and who are just out to save the vestiges of a once great but now
|
|
dying
|
|
race. On the other hand, maybe they're a bunch of parasites using
|
|
nice
|
|
protective camouflage (the appearance of good intentions or the
|
|
implanting of the impression of good intention in the minds of some
|
|
human victims) to accomplish their goal which is *not* something
|
|
we'd
|
|
consider nice. Most victims of parasites don't like their little
|
|
bugs.
|
|
Symbiosis, now, is another kettle of fish. If the mutual benefit
|
|
was a
|
|
good thing for both species, then a little discomfort along the way
|
|
would be tolerable.
|
|
|
|
But the kicker is there is no way to find out whether they're
|
|
parasites
|
|
or symbiotes until the end of the game--either you are consumed or
|
|
benefited.
|
|
|
|
*If* it's really happening -- and there are sure some horrible and
|
|
spooky stories out there being told by believable sounding people
|
|
--
|
|
it's imperative that we learn the truth of the good/evil motives
|
|
the
|
|
aliens operate from and take appropriate action. I understand the
|
|
argument people propose about how there's no point in knowing what
|
|
we
|
|
can do nothing about, but that assumes an omnipotent alien force
|
|
without
|
|
giving human ingenuity a chance against it. Sure they may be
|
|
overwhelmingly superior in the tech areas of space vehicle
|
|
construction,
|
|
but they're obviously not (if they're really there at all) too sure
|
|
of
|
|
themselves and their power when they're confronted with large
|
|
numbers
|
|
of humans in a setting. Several of the UFO contactee accounts I've
|
|
read report that there seems to be an alien fear of human emotion
|
|
|
|
[More]
|
|
|
|
#: 82553 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
23-Dec-90 11:50:28
|
|
Sb: UFO Camouflage?
|
|
Fm: Peggy Noonan 71760,1140
|
|
To: Terry Rodemerk 76357,405
|
|
|
|
[Continued]
|
|
(continuing)
|
|
..there seems to be an alien fear of human emotion as if that
|
|
emotion
|
|
had a power in itself that was more dangerous to the aliens than
|
|
physical
|
|
tools such as weapons. They seem to go to great lengths to
|
|
immobilize
|
|
their victims physically and to try to soothe them mentally too, as
|
|
if
|
|
perhaps an unruly human was too risky to be around. Maybe it's
|
|
just a
|
|
case of tranquilizing the critter so he won't hurt himself or his
|
|
scientist examiners, much as we do in tranquilizing, say, bighorn
|
|
sheep
|
|
to check on their health and range, etc., but if it's more than
|
|
that,
|
|
then we have a weapon to use to fight back and that means that
|
|
giving up
|
|
before there's a contest is not only suicidal, but also stupid.
|
|
|
|
It seems to me the human mind operates on two levels: the
|
|
individual
|
|
brain thinking up solutions to cope with its individual
|
|
environment, and
|
|
the collective consciousness which works almost as an entity, one
|
|
neuron
|
|
(individual brain) sparking synapses to another to another to
|
|
another
|
|
until the whole mass collectively is working on the same problem
|
|
but
|
|
bringing a wealth of diverse experience, intuition, inventiveness,
|
|
and
|
|
creativity to bear on solving the shared dilemma. Sort of like
|
|
what
|
|
happened with the fall of the Eastern Bloc domination, coming on
|
|
the
|
|
heels of the Chinese move for independence. It wasn't a single
|
|
person
|
|
or even a group of people, but rather the whole mass of humanity
|
|
that
|
|
acted as if with one mind to achieve the goal--and succeeded. Maybe
|
|
we
|
|
could bring the same kind of force to bear on solving the alien
|
|
domination problem too, but those who throw in the towel for us
|
|
before
|
|
the fight begins don't give us a chance. If we quit without
|
|
trying,
|
|
we're certainly doomed, so why not take a crack at freedom? Can't
|
|
be
|
|
any worse off.
|
|
|
|
Then there's the our-government-is-in-on-it-with-Them idea, with
|
|
the
|
|
whole bit about the Dulce base... Now that's *really* spooky.
|
|
|
|
Such thoughts keep you warm when it's -22 deg. =PN
|
|
|
|
|
|
#: 82556 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
23-Dec-90 11:50:59
|
|
Sb: Sitchin & ancient astro
|
|
Fm: Peggy Noonan 71760,1140
|
|
To: Terry Ecker 71207,1165
|
|
|
|
Terry, I saw your message about the Sitchin theories and had to
|
|
compliment you on expressing his ideas more succinctly and clearly
|
|
than
|
|
anyone I've read yet. I've heard Sitchin on KOA's "Weird Night"
|
|
twice
|
|
(an hour interview each) and have read three of the books, but the
|
|
body
|
|
of information is so enormous it's hard to distill into rational
|
|
thought-bites--at least it was for me, but you've done an excellent
|
|
job
|
|
of it. Do you know Dr. Sitchin? And have you read any of Neil
|
|
Freer's
|
|
work which is derived from Sitchin's? Having read all five of the
|
|
books, how do you rate the plausibility of the ancient astronauts
|
|
ideas?
|
|
==Peggy==
|
|
|
|
#: 82557 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
23-Dec-90 11:51:26
|
|
Sb: #UFO Camouflage?
|
|
Fm: Peggy Noonan 71760,1140
|
|
To: Terry Ecker 71207,1165
|
|
Terry, Good point about how similar Dorothy Isaacs' photo was to
|
|
the
|
|
Gulf Breeze one by Brenda Pollack. It does seem to prove that
|
|
Brenda's
|
|
photo wasn't faked but weren't most of Dorothy's taken sans
|
|
witness?
|
|
|
|
I don't know enough about cameras, light, and film to even begin to
|
|
guess, but I do wonder if there could be some artifact of the
|
|
physical
|
|
device itself that produces strange "segmented worms" on the film
|
|
...
|
|
Would make an interesting test to see if anyone could get the same
|
|
photographic result without photographing the night sky and thus
|
|
determine that it's something in the box itself, or, if the study
|
|
were
|
|
well enough constructed, determine that it's NOT something in the
|
|
box
|
|
and therefore must be something in the sky. Unsolved Mysteries said
|
|
their camera which was used at the same time and pointed in the
|
|
same
|
|
direction as DI's didn't produce the same photos. That's
|
|
interesting,
|
|
but it would've been better if they'd taken her camera and (1)
|
|
examined
|
|
it carefully for glitches or bugs, deliberate or accidental, (2)
|
|
attempted to take the same photos with her camera, (3) had her use
|
|
their
|
|
camera to see if the source of the photos is somehow HER and not
|
|
the
|
|
camera or the light in the sky
|
|
(like maybe being a channel of sorts or a person who produces
|
|
unusual
|
|
electrical energy fields that create patterns on film...not saying
|
|
this
|
|
is possible, just speculating), (4) had her test several other
|
|
kinds of
|
|
cameras to see if she produced the same results each time while
|
|
their
|
|
photog also tested the same cameras in the same location and on the
|
|
same
|
|
target, (5) tried different types of film to see if that had any
|
|
effect
|
|
on the resulting photos, and (6) tested for that sound she said she
|
|
could hear -- was there a measurable sound? and if so, could it be
|
|
used
|
|
as a communication device not only from "them" but back to "them"
|
|
also?
|
|
Too bad it was an "infotainment" program and not serious
|
|
investigation--would be great to see the latter!
|
|
==PN==
|
|
|
|
There are 2 Replies.
|
|
#: 82656 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
23-Dec-90 20:50:57
|
|
Sb: #82557-#UFO Camouflage?
|
|
Fm: Trevor Prinn 100016,2726
|
|
To: Peggy Noonan 71760,1140 (X)
|
|
|
|
There was some very technical discussion about these pictures in
|
|
the
|
|
latest Paranet newsletter. It looks from what has been said there
|
|
as
|
|
though the pictures are due to faults within the camera. I didn't
|
|
understand the technicalities but it seems to be a problem with the
|
|
film
|
|
stopping intermittently and overexposing one frame.
|
|
|
|
Trev
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#: 82673 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
23-Dec-90 21:25:11
|
|
Sb: #82557-#UFO Camouflage?
|
|
Fm: John Hicks 76407,1264
|
|
To: Peggy Noonan 71760,1140 (X)
|
|
|
|
> Terry, Good point about how similar Dorothy Isaacs' photo was to
|
|
the
|
|
> Gulf Breeze one by Brenda Pollack. It does seem to prove that
|
|
|
|
> Brenda's photo wasn't faked but weren't most of Dorothy's taken
|
|
sans
|
|
> witness?
|
|
|
|
I have no problem with Brenda Pollak's photo, partly because the
|
|
result is technically consistent with conditions and subject, and
|
|
because others using different cameras got results consistent with
|
|
hers.
|
|
Pretty much the only variable in that incident was how steady
|
|
each
|
|
photographer held the camera during a probably three-to-five-second
|
|
exposure.
|
|
Now, it appears that Dorothy Isaacs' strange frames of film may
|
|
be
|
|
another kettle of fish.
|
|
I wonder if it occured to anyone to find out if her camera would
|
|
do
|
|
single-frame exposures. I don't recall that being mentioned. That
|
|
could
|
|
make the frames mighty easy to fake.
|
|
Next, I wonder if the camera intermittently jams. If it were to
|
|
stop
|
|
for a couple of seconds with the shutter hung open every now and
|
|
then,
|
|
similar frames would result.
|
|
Of course there's no good reason all that activity couldn't take
|
|
place
|
|
in the approximately 1/30 second the shutter would be open for one
|
|
particular frame.
|
|
Too bad UM doesn't really give any information and just goes for
|
|
the splash.
|
|
|
|
jbh
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#: 82787 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
24-Dec-90 11:10:11
|
|
Sb: #82673-UFO Camouflage?
|
|
Fm: Peggy Noonan 71760,1140
|
|
To: John Hicks 76407,1264
|
|
|
|
I couldn't agree more about the UM going for the splash rather than
|
|
the
|
|
research. I wish they'd given more info. Did you see Trev's
|
|
message
|
|
about the Paranet newsletter info on her camera? I'll have to
|
|
check on
|
|
that but it sounds as if they found just what you suspected.
|
|
|
|
Have a nice holiday! ==PN==
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#: 83213 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
27-Dec-90 01:58:50
|
|
Sb: #82553-UFO Camouflage?
|
|
Fm: Terry Rodemerk 76357,405
|
|
To: Peggy Noonan 71760,1140
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Hi I'm Klatu jr. and I'll sell you this (BAM!,slaming his arm
|
|
on
|
|
the hood of the saucer) UFO for 40 credits down and 40 credits a
|
|
centon
|
|
for ever, this (BAM!) UFO for 40 credits down and 40 credits
|
|
centon,This
|
|
(BAM!) UFO for 40 credits down and this (BAM!) 79' Ford pickup that
|
|
was
|
|
only dirven once by a little old Earthling I abducted in Ohio for
|
|
40
|
|
credits down and 40 credits a centon for ever! Turn left at Rigal
|
|
IV and
|
|
head straight down Milky Way Boulevard, we're the last star cluster
|
|
on
|
|
the right. That's Honest Klatu's Used UFO Lot. Come on down.
|
|
|
|
I love it Peggy, that's got to be one of the most intelligent
|
|
things said yet about the whole UFO issue. Not just Honest Klatu,
|
|
but
|
|
your whole train of thought about where the aliens got the
|
|
technology
|
|
they possess.I think our discussion has given us a whole new basis
|
|
to
|
|
begin to understand what it is the aliens are about. It opens up a
|
|
whole
|
|
new area to explore as to what the aliens see in the Earth and
|
|
might
|
|
want from Humans.A race 100,000 years or more advanced that us
|
|
really
|
|
isn't going to find much that we can give them outside of raw
|
|
materials
|
|
(which still may be).But a race 300 to 500 years ahead of us
|
|
will probably have quite a lot in common with us.
|
|
|
|
You mentioned that they don't seem as sure of themself when
|
|
confronted with large numbers of humans. That indicates a common
|
|
feeling
|
|
that they and we share. Think of the last time you found yourself
|
|
in a
|
|
crowd of strangers and suddenly started to feel nervous about it.
|
|
I know
|
|
it's happened to me a few times. How many other feelings do we have
|
|
in
|
|
common? Maybe this is one of the secrets their afraid we will find
|
|
out
|
|
some day. Once we understand them we may find that we are not as
|
|
defenseless against them as we are lead to think. This fear and
|
|
interest
|
|
in human emotions sounds like one of the keys to understanding
|
|
them.
|
|
[More]
|
|
|
|
#: 83214 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
27-Dec-90 01:59:04
|
|
Sb: #82553-UFO Camouflage?
|
|
Fm: Terry Rodemerk 76357,405
|
|
To: Peggy Noonan 71760,1140
|
|
|
|
[Continued]
|
|
Using this new prespective let me run a couple of thoughts
|
|
about
|
|
why their here pass you.
|
|
|
|
1) Galactic law prohibits outside development of a star
|
|
system
|
|
where intelligent life is evolving.The primary system belongs the
|
|
race
|
|
who lives there. That makes the aliens claim-jumpers.
|
|
|
|
2) The aliens are crooked business creatures come to con the
|
|
local
|
|
yolkels out of their land (the solar system). White collar
|
|
claim-jumpers.
|
|
|
|
3) I think this is an interesting idea. You have probably
|
|
seen the
|
|
many films and TV shows showing the Air Force going out on a
|
|
mission
|
|
(WWII, Korea,Veitnam,etc.). The planes flying in neat formations on
|
|
the
|
|
way out, but coming back isn't so pretty. Their all shoot-up and
|
|
many of
|
|
them crash around the field or into the back of the carriers or the
|
|
water. It's quite a mess. If you count up all the reports of UFO
|
|
crashes
|
|
they suddenly look like they are falling out of the sky like flys.
|
|
The
|
|
FAA would groud an airline with that poor a safety record. Suppose
|
|
though that these are not accidental crashes. Suppose that these
|
|
are
|
|
combat ships coming back from a battle out there somewhere. Has the
|
|
Earth been unwittingly involved in a steallar war (see, I can do
|
|
Lear
|
|
and Cooper too. <G>). As strange as this one sounds it accounts for
|
|
a
|
|
LOT of what has been and is now going on, especially all the
|
|
secrecy on
|
|
the government's part. I'll let you think about this one for a bit.
|
|
I
|
|
just hope we're on the right side.
|
|
[More]
|
|
|
|
#: 83215 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
27-Dec-90 01:59:12
|
|
Sb: #82553-UFO Camouflage?
|
|
Fm: Terry Rodemerk 76357,405
|
|
To: Peggy Noonan 71760,1140
|
|
|
|
[Continued]
|
|
4) A friend suggested this one. Their a galactic Hells-Angels
|
|
come
|
|
here to party at our expense until someone else comes along to run
|
|
them
|
|
off. Where's Hans Solo when you need him!
|
|
|
|
These are just a few of the strange thoughts I've come up
|
|
with to
|
|
explain what the UFO's are here for. No more right or wrong than
|
|
any of
|
|
the other ideas I've heard over the years. They sure are fun
|
|
though.
|
|
|
|
What I would like to see is more people get involved in this
|
|
thread. I bet there is a lot of other people with similar ideas to
|
|
ours
|
|
and I would like to hear them also. Who knows, this may be the kind
|
|
of
|
|
brainstorming necessary to get a handle on this thing.
|
|
BTW, I got a Franklin Spelling Ace pocket calculator for
|
|
Christmas
|
|
and it is sure making these messages easier to write. Hope you had
|
|
a
|
|
nice Christmas too!
|
|
|
|
Terry
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#: 83482 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
28-Dec-90 15:15:53
|
|
Sb: #82548-#UFO Camouflage?
|
|
Fm: Luc Therrien 70531,3505
|
|
To: Peggy Noonan 71760,1140 (X)
|
|
|
|
Sue, Re the Unsolved Mysteries episode, I missed it. Can you
|
|
summerize
|
|
it for me? I'm curious about this as I heard other people
|
|
mentioning
|
|
this episode and I didn't have enough information. Nevertheless,
|
|
I was
|
|
wondering if she did try to experiment taking pictures *herself*
|
|
with
|
|
*two* different cameras. This may have shown a defect on the
|
|
camera or
|
|
even more weird, her owm mental influence on the camera? Or
|
|
perhaps
|
|
this has been tried?
|
|
|
|
Au revoir, Luc
|
|
|
|
|
|
#: 84106 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
31-Dec-90 12:34:12
|
|
Sb: #83482-UFO Camouflage?
|
|
Fm: Peggy Noonan 71760,1140
|
|
To: Luc Therrien 70531,3505
|
|
|
|
Luc, Now that you ask, I'm not sure whether she used more than one
|
|
camera in taking the photos of the UFO visitors. (Re the Unsolved
|
|
Mysteries program about Dorothy Isaacs, who has regular contact
|
|
with
|
|
UFOs off her back porch and has filmed them numerous times and now
|
|
shows
|
|
prints of those films and probably sells them too.)
|
|
|
|
I have the impression that she used a video camera and a still
|
|
camera,
|
|
but I am not certain now that I think of it. It's possible that
|
|
I'm
|
|
confusing that with Ed Walters' UFO pictures. John Hicks would
|
|
probably
|
|
be the best person to ask as he commented on the Isaacs photos and
|
|
he's
|
|
a camera expert too. He did mention something about the technical
|
|
aspects of the camera, but I don't have a copy of that message at
|
|
hand
|
|
to quote.
|
|
|
|
The Unsolved Mysteries program did say, at the end of their report,
|
|
that
|
|
their cameraman had stood beside Dorothy Isaacs and photographed
|
|
the
|
|
same area of sky she was photographing at the same time but his
|
|
camera
|
|
produced no strange lights or images at all, which makes it sound
|
|
like
|
|
it's either a glitch in her camera or some energy she produces
|
|
which
|
|
botches film. John Hicks, again, could say better than I. He's
|
|
#76407,1264 here on CIS.
|
|
==Peggy==
|
|
|
|
#: 83483 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
28-Dec-90 15:16:02
|
|
Sb: #83215-UFO Camouflage?
|
|
Fm: Luc Therrien 70531,3505
|
|
To: Terry Rodemerk 76357,405
|
|
|
|
Terry, this is one of the most fascinating thread I've read
|
|
anywhere in
|
|
CIS. However, perhaps because I missed the beginning about UFO
|
|
Camouflage it is hard for me to contribute an informed comment.
|
|
Would
|
|
it be possible to summerize the initial idea behind this thread?
|
|
Also,
|
|
have you guys read the books by Whitley Strieber? Do you agree
|
|
with his
|
|
claims?
|
|
|
|
Au revoir, Luc
|
|
|
|
#: 84045 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
31-Dec-90 03:49:08
|
|
Sb: #83215-UFO Camouflage?
|
|
Fm: William McLaughlin 70401,523
|
|
To: Terry Rodemerk 76357,405
|
|
|
|
Terry:
|
|
|
|
I'm curious. All of the theories that you mention rest on the
|
|
assumption that UFOs are spaceships from other planets. Why? Could
|
|
they
|
|
not be something else?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Mac
|
|
|
|
#: 84104 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
31-Dec-90 12:33:43
|
|
Sb: #83213-UFO Camouflage?
|
|
Fm: Peggy Noonan 71760,1140
|
|
To: Terry Rodemerk 76357,405
|
|
|
|
l Terry, That's the FUNNIEST commercial I've ever seen!!! I wish it
|
|
was on video! What a wonderful imagination you have! Good thought,
|
|
too,
|
|
about the fear of large numbers. Might be compared to the Raj era
|
|
in
|
|
India or any of the other British Empire ventures where a tiny,
|
|
tiny
|
|
handful of foreign interlopers controlled masses of native
|
|
populations
|
|
merely by having a few small units of slightly superior technology
|
|
(not
|
|
terribly far advanced but only just sufficiently advanced to exert
|
|
control) such as rifles or pistols or machine guns or, gee, if you
|
|
look
|
|
at Spain's conquest of Mexico, just the advance of using horses and
|
|
armor... The trick was to make the natives THINK you were
|
|
superior...a
|
|
few flashy tricks and a tadbit of clever tech and you've got it
|
|
made...they'll tremble in fear and obedience ever after. 'Course,
|
|
if they ever get a glimmer of a notion that you're NOT all that
|
|
powerful, look out, it's revolution time. All the other Empires
|
|
have
|
|
fallen--is the UFO Empire next (if we stop fearing them, who knows,
|
|
maybe we could just commandeer a ship ourselves and turn the old
|
|
tables
|
|
on 'em.)
|
|
Your idea about the returning combat survivors is an interesting
|
|
one
|
|
to pursue, too... hmmm... the claim jumpers who are violating the
|
|
"non-intervention pact" (sounds familiar, doesn't it) are at war
|
|
because of their illegal activities and we're like the New Guineans
|
|
during WWII who saw the mysterious sky birds whizzing by now and
|
|
then
|
|
and even found them on the ground sometimes but didn't understand
|
|
what
|
|
they were and made "Cargo Cults" from the wreckage. (After all, if
|
|
it
|
|
comes from the sky and does "magical" things, it must be a god,
|
|
mustn't
|
|
it?)
|
|
Your friend's "galactic Hell's Angels" explanation is
|
|
hilarious...why not!!!?
|
|
But seriously, I do think that brainstorming sessions such
|
|
as these here on CIS are the best hope for finding solutions to any
|
|
number of and kind of problems... More brains=more intelligence?
|
|
|
|
==PN==
|
|
|
|
#: 83484 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
28-Dec-90 15:16:09
|
|
Sb: #82557-#UFO Camouflage?
|
|
Fm: Luc Therrien 70531,3505
|
|
To: Peggy Noonan 71760,1140 (X)
|
|
|
|
Although I've commented earlier on this I want to support your
|
|
experiments (3), (4) & (5). My suggestions were going along that
|
|
line.
|
|
They would have given much needed information to solve this
|
|
mystery.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#: 84107 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
31-Dec-90 12:34:33
|
|
Sb: #83484-UFO Camouflage?
|
|
Fm: Peggy Noonan 71760,1140
|
|
To: Luc Therrien 70531,3505
|
|
|
|
Thank you, Luc, for your endorsement. Now if we could only find
|
|
someone
|
|
to perform the experiments! ==Peggy==
|
|
|
|
#: 83813 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
30-Dec-90 04:26:42
|
|
Sb: #82557-#UFO Camouflage?
|
|
Fm: Terry Ecker 71207,1165
|
|
To: Peggy Noonan 71760,1140 (X)
|
|
|
|
Peggy:
|
|
|
|
Sorry for the delayed reply; you know: Christmas, business, out
|
|
of
|
|
town, hanky panky and all... but:
|
|
|
|
Until seeing the UM episode I had never heard of Isaacs and,
|
|
having
|
|
seen it, I'm not very impressed since the host pointed out that
|
|
professional photojournalists, with better equipment, filming the
|
|
same
|
|
thing at the same time, failed to get similar results. That does
|
|
suggest
|
|
strongly, to me, anyway, that Isaacs's "UFOs" are products either
|
|
of her
|
|
defective camera or her defective honesty, although I am open to
|
|
persuasion either way.
|
|
|
|
Nevertheless, I am intrigued by the similarities between her
|
|
photos
|
|
and those taken (and published) by Brenda Pollack in Gulf Breeze.
|
|
I am
|
|
even more intrigued by the similarities between Mrs. Pollack's
|
|
photos
|
|
and numerous photos of UFOs taken years earlier by various persons
|
|
in
|
|
various places around the world. I am particularly intrigued by her
|
|
photo that shows what *looks* like an airborne jellyfish with a
|
|
mottled,
|
|
multicolored bottom and a serrated circular circumference. Almost
|
|
(if
|
|
not) identical airborne objects have been photographed around the
|
|
planet
|
|
over the years, and none have been proved faked to my knowledge.
|
|
|
|
Although I am a journalist of long (and mostly unremarkable)
|
|
standing,
|
|
with a few interesting photos along the way, I can't claim any more
|
|
photo
|
|
|
|
[More]
|
|
|
|
There are 2 Replies.
|
|
|
|
#: 83814 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
30-Dec-90 04:26:50
|
|
Sb: #83813-#UFO Camouflage?
|
|
Fm: Terry Ecker 71207,1165
|
|
To: Terry Ecker 71207,1165
|
|
|
|
[Continued]
|
|
expertise than you do, and can't be any more judgmental/critical of
|
|
alleged UFO photos than you are.
|
|
|
|
On the other hand, I do finally have my own darkroom, to which I
|
|
converted an unneeded bathroom over the holidays. It was
|
|
surprisingly
|
|
easy and inexpensive, costing less than a thousand bucks for
|
|
equipment
|
|
and chemicals and only a few hours of uncomplicated work. Of
|
|
course,
|
|
while carefully selecting and buying the darkroom equipment and
|
|
supplies
|
|
I also managed to acquire $1,300 worth of Nikon camera
|
|
body/lens/flash
|
|
equipment, but that wasn't required. I think that's called "impulse
|
|
buying".
|
|
|
|
Anyway, I'm finally in a position to realize a long standing
|
|
ambition.
|
|
Any day now there will emerge from my darkroom a faked copy of the
|
|
famous AP photo of the assasination of Lee Harvey Oswald by Jack
|
|
Ruby -
|
|
with Terry Ecker laughing in the background. If you ever see such
|
|
a
|
|
photo, you can bet your life it was faked.
|
|
|
|
Terry
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#: 83853 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
30-Dec-90 09:52:56
|
|
Sb: #83814-UFO Camouflage?
|
|
Fm: John Hicks 76407,1264
|
|
To: Terry Ecker 71207,1165
|
|
|
|
I think the effects (jellyfish) you're referring to have one
|
|
thing in
|
|
common; long exposure.
|
|
We know that's the case in Brenda Pollak's photo, and is most
|
|
likely
|
|
the case in Isaacs' films, whether intentional or otherwise.
|
|
Point-sources record on film as streaks or squiggles. You know
|
|
about the common star-trail photos?
|
|
Congrats on the darkroom! Sounds like you did good.
|
|
BTW, if you're into black & white, I highly recommend Ilford HP-5
|
|
developed in Kodak T-Max developer. Develop it as if it were T-Max
|
|
400.
|
|
Very forgiving film and great developer.
|
|
If you haven't discovered it yet, Kodak T-Max films are a royal
|
|
pain.
|
|
|
|
jbh
|
|
|
|
#: 84108 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
31-Dec-90 12:35:18
|
|
Sb: #83813-UFO Camouflage?
|
|
Fm: Peggy Noonan 71760,1140
|
|
To: Terry Ecker 71207,1165
|
|
Hi Terry, Glad to hear from you again--and I hope your holidays
|
|
were
|
|
very happy! Not to worry about the delayed reply...as per a message
|
|
I
|
|
posted today, I won't be able to drop in to Issues as often,
|
|
myself,
|
|
because of $$, so my own replies are likely to be delayed...maybe
|
|
a
|
|
bunch. (Today I'm catching up on waiting mssgs and replying but
|
|
it'll
|
|
be at least a week or more before I stop in again.)
|
|
Yes, there was a striking correspondence between the Isaacs
|
|
photos and the Gulf Breeze ones, despite the inability of the
|
|
Unsolved
|
|
Mysteries cameraman to duplicate DI's photos while standing in the
|
|
same
|
|
place at the same time.
|
|
And you're right, too, about the similarity to other photos
|
|
of
|
|
strange sky things taken around the world for many years. I
|
|
couldn't
|
|
say whether any of those pix has been subjected to stringent
|
|
analysis or
|
|
not, so I wouldn't know if any have been "debunked" or not, but
|
|
it's
|
|
certainly odd that so many taken in so many different places look
|
|
so
|
|
much alike. Linda Moulton Howe's book, *An Alien Harvest*, shows a
|
|
very
|
|
similar photo on the cover and duplicates it inside, complete with
|
|
explanation of what's been done to examine the photo.
|
|
Flying jellyfish...yep, some sure look like that--but what
|
|
if that's exactly what they are? Sort of a time-space tear (Local
|
|
UFO
|
|
group leader calls it an "ethereal tear" and says Bigfoot and UFOs
|
|
and
|
|
other strange stuff slips in and out through it all the time--there
|
|
are
|
|
supposed to be several such tears, one being just south of Denver
|
|
and
|
|
running several miles over Castle Rock and down to Colorado Springs
|
|
where a lot of weird stuff goes on, not to mention NORAD's
|
|
location.)
|
|
Could be there are giant sky-riding jellyfish critters who drop in
|
|
for
|
|
a look-see now and then. :)
|
|
|
|
==PN== PS--sorry, I lost the rest of your message.
|
|
Will try to catch it when I cone back on to send this.
|
|
|
|
#: 83485 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
28-Dec-90 15:16:17
|
|
Sb: #82656-#UFO Camouflage?
|
|
Fm: Luc Therrien 70531,3505
|
|
To: Trevor Prinn 100016,2726 (X)
|
|
|
|
If that is the case, why wasn't the camera checked before?
|
|
Although I
|
|
haven't seen the episode, I have enuf info now to question the
|
|
show. As
|
|
Peggy said, there wasn't much systematic investigation that went on
|
|
in
|
|
this report.
|
|
Au revoir, Luc
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#: 84056 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
31-Dec-90 06:27:41
|
|
Sb: #83485-UFO Camouflage?
|
|
Fm: Trevor Prinn 100016,2726
|
|
To: Luc Therrien 70531,3505
|
|
|
|
I haven't seen the show either (I live in Britain), so the info on
|
|
Paranet is all I have read about it. According to that the camera
|
|
wasn't
|
|
checked because the owner wouldn't let it be checked. It sounds as
|
|
though the program's producer initially thought there was a story,
|
|
and
|
|
when he realised there wasn't, it was too late to pull it from the
|
|
program. That's my guess from what I've read.
|
|
|
|
Trev
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#: 84102 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
31-Dec-90 12:32:06
|
|
Sb: #82960-UFO Camouflage?
|
|
Fm: Peggy Noonan 71760,1140
|
|
To: Alan Greig 100012,1273
|
|
|
|
Thanks, Alan. Maybe my UK friends will make an audiotape of one to
|
|
send
|
|
me while waiting for it to show up here. I haven't found it so
|
|
far,
|
|
but will keep an eye open for it.
|
|
|
|
I recently came across a list of international computer BBS while
|
|
I was
|
|
on a Denver-area BBS recently and I was surprised to see how many
|
|
England had. It had been my impression there weren't as many as
|
|
that,
|
|
but maybe the folks who gave me that impression just weren't as
|
|
interested in BBSing. This list contains 33 BBS in England plus a
|
|
long
|
|
list of US BBS and other countries' too--Canada, Australia, Taiwan,
|
|
Finland, the Netherlands, & Germany. It'd take you a few minutes
|
|
to
|
|
print it online (I don't know if it can be downloaded, which would
|
|
be
|
|
faster), but it might be worth the time to you. If you are
|
|
interested,
|
|
you'll it's "The World Wide GT BBS List as of 12/29/1990" and it's
|
|
on the Bulletin Menu of Netcomm BBS, whose US phone # is:
|
|
303-730-6709. (I don't know what international dialing codes you'd
|
|
have
|
|
to use.)
|
|
|
|
==Peggy==
|
|
|
|
|
|
#: 84270 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
01-Jan-91 15:55:58
|
|
Sb: #84106-UFO Camouflage?
|
|
Fm: John Hicks 76407,1264
|
|
To: Peggy Noonan 71760,1140
|
|
|
|
So far as I know, Isaacs used only one Super-8 film camera.
|
|
Someone on
|
|
PN said she used two, but I don't have a copy of the UM show to
|
|
confirm
|
|
that.
|
|
If the camera was capable of single-frame exposures, which would
|
|
be
|
|
used for animation, then it would be easy to produce the streak
|
|
frames.
|
|
Otherwise, various mechanical problems could have the same
|
|
result.
|
|
It appears to me (from UM) that no one closely checked her
|
|
camera.
|
|
Video is a somewhat different animal, and if the streaks were
|
|
occuring
|
|
in the approximately 1/30 sec. her movie camera had its shutter
|
|
open for
|
|
each frame, it's entirely possible that a video camera (or another
|
|
film
|
|
camera) would miss it entirely.
|
|
The only real confirmation of her story would be to have her use
|
|
a
|
|
known-good sealed camera, or for others to film the same thing with
|
|
her.
|
|
|
|
jbh
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#: 84330 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
02-Jan-91 00:39:38
|
|
Sb: #83483-UFO Camouflage?
|
|
Fm: Terry Rodemerk 76357,405
|
|
To: Luc Therrien 70531,3505
|
|
|
|
|
|
Hi Luc. I,ve been out of town for the 1st, hence the delay in the
|
|
reply. Glad to hear you find this interesting. I have always
|
|
thought
|
|
this subject has needed a more down to earth discussion. This is
|
|
not to
|
|
say that what others have to say are not relevant as they most
|
|
certainly
|
|
as relevant as any. It's just that I haven't heard much discussion
|
|
in
|
|
this direction.
|
|
Basically the thread started out talking about how many sightings
|
|
report that the objects or beings looked like something other than
|
|
what
|
|
they were. In the Fyffe,Ala. sighting the witness described seeing
|
|
a
|
|
semi-tractor trailer flying through the air( not a real one but an
|
|
image
|
|
of one). In the Dec.90 issue of OMNI the article about some of the
|
|
letters that Bud Hopkins has recieved talked about a couple who
|
|
seen a
|
|
strange object in a field that they both feared. When they drove
|
|
past
|
|
it,it turned out to be a farm tractor( so they reported although
|
|
they
|
|
did not believe that was what they seen to start with ). The
|
|
discussion then moved on to whether the aliens can create a good
|
|
image of a common object ( to humans) to be able to use as
|
|
camouflage.
|
|
This moved the discussion on to whether the aliens are as advanced
|
|
overall as they would like us humans to believe.
|
|
[More]
|
|
|
|
#: 84331 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
02-Jan-91 00:39:48
|
|
Sb: #83483-UFO Camouflage?
|
|
Fm: Terry Rodemerk 76357,405
|
|
To: Luc Therrien 70531,3505
|
|
|
|
[Continued]
|
|
It's been a fun thread and some interesting ideas have come out of
|
|
it.I
|
|
hope to see it continue as I am sure there are other thoughts along
|
|
this
|
|
line yet to come out. One of the problems with this section
|
|
(paranormal)
|
|
is that there are so many different and interesting discussions
|
|
going on
|
|
about so many different things that it is sometimes hard to know
|
|
which
|
|
ones to jump into with both feet. Writing long messages on one
|
|
subject
|
|
sometimes sidetracks your thoughts on the other subjects :-)
|
|
I hope this helps to bring you up to date. If you would like I
|
|
could upload the whole therad to you by E-mail ( as soon as I
|
|
figure out
|
|
how to <g>).
|
|
Terry
|
|
|
|
P.S. I have trouble with Strieber. Both in what he writes and
|
|
in how he writes it.
|
|
|
|
#: 84332 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
02-Jan-91 00:40:02
|
|
Sb: #84045-UFO Camouflage?
|
|
Fm: Terry Rodemerk 76357,405
|
|
To: William McLaughlin 70401,523 (X)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Hello William. Yes, they most certainly could be something else.
|
|
I'm
|
|
working on the assumption that if these events are not created or
|
|
controlled by human then that it is most likely that we are being
|
|
visited by an alien race.That they are not to advanced from us and
|
|
not
|
|
to far from us,that they stumbled on to us about 50-60 years ago
|
|
and
|
|
that they are interested in us for something much more trival and
|
|
petty
|
|
than they are willing to let on to us. Their biggest problem is
|
|
that
|
|
they had the very bad luck to show up at a time that the human race
|
|
is
|
|
going through a major religious and metaphysical metamorphosis. I
|
|
really
|
|
don't feel that they have anything to do with the ancient
|
|
astronuats,
|
|
the pyramids, Satan or any other of the metaphysical connections
|
|
(though Frank Turner has some interesting ideas about OBE's and UFO
|
|
abductions. Check out his OBE-abduction thread.).
|
|
Now that I have been a crashing boor <G>,let me say that there
|
|
are
|
|
many possible explainations for UFO's. None anymore right or wrong
|
|
than
|
|
the others. These are just my own thoughts and opinions based on
|
|
what I
|
|
personally have gotten out of reading and talking to others. I feel
|
|
that
|
|
at this point in time the human race and the alien race are stuck
|
|
with
|
|
each other, for better or worse.
|
|
You must have some different ideas (which is good) that I would
|
|
certainly like to hear about. The more discussion of different
|
|
ideas the
|
|
better chance we have to solve this jigsaw puzzle.
|
|
|
|
Terry
|
|
|
|
#: 84333 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
02-Jan-91 00:40:13
|
|
Sb: #84104-#UFO Camouflage?
|
|
Fm: Terry Rodemerk 76357,405
|
|
To: Peggy Noonan 71760,1140 (X)
|
|
|
|
Hi Peggy. Hope your holidays were good.Sorry to hear you got the
|
|
CI$$$ blues.These folks need to take the hint and lower their
|
|
rates.Christmas is coming again too I hear <smile>.
|
|
Can't take credit for the commerical. We got a guy here in Tampa
|
|
Bay
|
|
that does one just like it. He does this forward step with a
|
|
downward
|
|
hand slid to, like ZZ Top only not near as good.
|
|
There is a guy over in Iraq right now who is a perfect example of
|
|
what
|
|
we have been talking about. Bought or stole all his technology. I
|
|
hope
|
|
we don't have to fight him to find out if he knows how to use it.
|
|
My galactic war scenario has farther reaching implications. I
|
|
think the claim-jumpers are more worried about the Star Police
|
|
finding
|
|
them.How much for the planet without the cities? <g>
|
|
I'll cut this short and try to space my messages so you can get
|
|
them. CI$ has got me blue to.
|
|
|
|
Terry
|
|
|
|
P.S. You caught me - Yes I'm a Trekkie too >-)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#: 84536 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
03-Jan-91 03:37:47
|
|
Sb: #84333-UFO Camouflage?
|
|
Fm: Peggy Noonan 71760,1140
|
|
To: Terry Rodemerk 76357,405
|
|
|
|
Hi Terry, I'm back a little sooner than anticipated so I thought
|
|
I'd go ahead and answer now...
|
|
|
|
Thanks for the info about your local car ad guy--must be a scream
|
|
to watch!
|
|
|
|
By the way, I was thinking that your ad and the previous ideas
|
|
would make a great comic touch article -- do you want co-byline
|
|
billing?
|
|
Seriously.
|
|
|
|
You're so right about Saddam's borrowed technology...why do we
|
|
always
|
|
look for the messianic aliens when we've got a lot of pretty
|
|
demonic
|
|
"aliens" right here to serve as examples of the other side of the
|
|
coin?
|
|
|
|
See you next time---
|
|
==PN==
|
|
|
|
#: 84421 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
02-Jan-91 14:40:15
|
|
Sb: #84102-UFO Camouflage?
|
|
Fm: bruce johnson 72727,2312
|
|
To: Peggy Noonan 71760,1140 (X)
|
|
|
|
Peggy,
|
|
|
|
Now that you are only here occasionally ('once-in-a-blue-moon'? ;)
|
|
Would you mind recounting briefly the Hopi's revelation about the
|
|
end of
|
|
the world. I had been following it but missed the particulars.
|
|
|
|
We will all miss your cheerful presence. -B
|
|
|
|
#: 84534 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
03-Jan-91 03:37:01
|
|
Sb: #Hopi Prediction-worldend
|
|
Fm: Peggy Noonan 71760,1140
|
|
To: bruce johnson 72727,2312 (X)
|
|
Hi Bruce, I'm back on this week sooner than anticipated, and found
|
|
your message about the Hopi prediction. I don't have the newspaper
|
|
clipping at hand, but will tell you to the best of my recollection
|
|
what
|
|
it said. (If you needed the actual text, you could look in CIS's
|
|
online
|
|
newspapers for the Rocky Mountain News, late December, keyword
|
|
HOPI,
|
|
PREDICTION, END OF THE WORLD or stuff like that. HOPI ought to do
|
|
it.
|
|
|
|
The reason it stuck in my mind was I'd just finished one of the
|
|
Tony Hillerman novels which dealt with the southwest Indians'
|
|
legend of
|
|
the end of this, the Fourth World, and the beginning of the next,
|
|
Fifth
|
|
world. Supposedly the legends were given to the tribes by their
|
|
gods and
|
|
they've been right every time so far. The Third World was
|
|
destroyed by
|
|
flooding and this fourth world will be destroyed when the sun is
|
|
taken
|
|
away and all turns cold and mankind will barely survive. All or
|
|
nearly
|
|
all the white men will die but a few Indians may survive it. There
|
|
is
|
|
supposed to be a special ritual of sand paintings, dances and
|
|
chants
|
|
using certain amulets given to the tribe's special person by the
|
|
gods
|
|
and only if someone knows the rituals and can correctly perform the
|
|
dances and chants AND has the amulets will it be possible to "bring
|
|
back the sun." (Can't help but compare the weather prediction to
|
|
nuclear winter or other disaster scenarios being presented by
|
|
non-mythologically-oriented scientists.)
|
|
|
|
That's the background. The new prediction was made by a Hopi
|
|
tribal
|
|
leader (I don't recall his exact title) and he said his people had
|
|
tried
|
|
in the past to warn the white man that all the signs foretold in
|
|
the
|
|
legends have come to pass and this world is going to end if we do
|
|
not
|
|
stop what we're doing--basically it boiled down to the ancient
|
|
predictions telling of war in the middle east being sort of the
|
|
final
|
|
tripwire signalling the end and they're telling us to knock it off
|
|
before we trigger the end of the planet for everyone.
|
|
[More]
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#: 84535 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
03-Jan-91 03:37:27
|
|
Sb: #84534-#Hopi Prediction-worldend
|
|
Fm: Peggy Noonan 71760,1140
|
|
To: Peggy Noonan 71760,1140
|
|
|
|
[Continued]
|
|
The tribal leader said that other warning signs had already come to
|
|
pass, things like what we've done to the environment or WWII type
|
|
events,
|
|
if I recall correctly. The Hopis say that all the other
|
|
predictions
|
|
have been true and they believe this one too will prove correct.
|
|
They
|
|
are not optimistic that they can stop us but they feel it is their
|
|
duty
|
|
as the holders of the superior knowledge and Truth to try to warn
|
|
us and
|
|
try to make us see the light. So far we've totally ignored them,
|
|
the
|
|
tribal representative said, and he's not optimistic this time will
|
|
be
|
|
any different, but nevertheless, things are so close to the
|
|
desperate
|
|
end, he is honor and duty bound to make the effort.
|
|
|
|
You can guess the governmental response.
|
|
|
|
If I have saved the clipping I should come across in by the time I
|
|
come
|
|
back to Issues again and I'll post another item if there's anything
|
|
more
|
|
I've missed here.
|
|
|
|
==PN== PS: Thanks very much for the kind words!
|
|
|
|
|
|
#: 84610 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
03-Jan-91 16:21:13
|
|
Sb: #84535-Hopi Prediction-worldend
|
|
Fm: bruce johnson 72727,2312
|
|
To: Peggy Noonan 71760,1140
|
|
|
|
Peg,
|
|
|
|
Thanks... (quick reply on line)
|
|
|
|
-cheers -b
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#: 84890 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
05-Jan-91 01:19:21
|
|
Sb: #83853-#UFO Camouflage?
|
|
Fm: Terry Ecker 71207,1165
|
|
To: John Hicks 76407,1264 (X)
|
|
|
|
RE: "You know about the common star-trail photos?":
|
|
|
|
Yes; Anne and I are into astronomy on a very amateur level. She
|
|
is
|
|
quite knowledgeable about astronomy, but our telescope is a
|
|
beginner's
|
|
Meade 226. We're talking about upgrading and trying some
|
|
photography,
|
|
although, as you know, Florida is not an ideal location for that.
|
|
|
|
RE my new darkroom, I sincerely appreciate your advice and would
|
|
welcome more. My first impulse was to ask by Email, or whatever
|
|
they
|
|
call it now, but I'm asking here on the assumption that your
|
|
expertise
|
|
in photography probably would be appreciated by many other members.
|
|
|
|
Your comments about Ilford HP-5 and Kodak T-Max developer
|
|
startled me
|
|
into realizing how many years it has been since I've been in a
|
|
darkroom.
|
|
(It was long enough ago that I was using a 4 x 5 Speed Graphic,
|
|
and,
|
|
come
|
|
to think of it, I wish I had one now.) The truth is, I don't know
|
|
what
|
|
you're talking about. (Blush.)
|
|
|
|
Since September 1975, when I met and fell in love with the
|
|
idiot-proof
|
|
Yashicamat 120 TLR and Kodak 400 Tri-X Pan, I've used nothing but
|
|
400
|
|
Tri-X, and left the developing to others, because I got
|
|
consistently
|
|
acceptable and occasionally outstanding results, and I figured if
|
|
it
|
|
ain't broke, don't fix it. After all, I'm not a professional
|
|
photographer or even a photojournalist; I'm just a journalist who
|
|
also
|
|
takes pictures.
|
|
|
|
[More]
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#: 84891 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
05-Jan-91 01:19:33
|
|
Sb: #84890-#UFO Camouflage?
|
|
Fm: Terry Ecker 71207,1165
|
|
To: Terry Ecker 71207,1165 (X)
|
|
|
|
[Continued]
|
|
|
|
As such, I am almost exclusively into black & white, and therein
|
|
lies the problem that drove me to my own darkroom. It is becoming
|
|
more
|
|
and more difficult to get b&w film developed and photos printed
|
|
commercially, and b&w rush jobs are impossible - at least in a town
|
|
this
|
|
size. So I decided the only practical solution was to resume doing
|
|
my
|
|
own developing and printing, and built and equipped my new
|
|
darkroom.
|
|
|
|
I used to be reasonably good at that, but that was a long time
|
|
ago.
|
|
So, recognizing that my knowledge was hopelessly outdated, I relied
|
|
on
|
|
the advice of the dealer from whom I bought the stuff. I bought a
|
|
Beseler enlarger with a Nikon lens, plus an up to 11 x 14 easel and
|
|
the
|
|
usual timer, trays, thermometer, squeegie, tongs, developing tank,
|
|
containers, etc. For chemicals I got Kodak D-76 for film and Dektol
|
|
for
|
|
prints, Kodak fixer, TKO orbit bath, Kodak Indicator stop bath and
|
|
Kodak
|
|
Photo-Flo 200 solution. I got an assortment of papers, figuring I
|
|
should
|
|
do some experimenting.
|
|
|
|
And, of course, I laid in a supply of film - yes, Kodak 400 Tri-X
|
|
Pan for black and white and Kodak Gold 400 for color, although I
|
|
expect
|
|
to continue having my color work developed and printed commercially
|
|
for
|
|
the time being.
|
|
And now, at the height of my euphoria, you hit me with "I highly
|
|
recommend Ilford HP-5 developed in Kodak T-Max developer. Develop
|
|
it as
|
|
if it were T-Max 400. Very forgiving film and great developer.
|
|
"If you haven't discovered it yet, Kodak T-Max films are a royal
|
|
pain."
|
|
|
|
Frankly, I don't even know what Ilford HP-5 and Kodak T-Max are.
|
|
Please elaborate; I'm serious about this.
|
|
|
|
Terry
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
There are 4 Replies.
|
|
|
|
#: 84960 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
05-Jan-91 12:37:45
|
|
Sb: #84891-UFO Camouflage?
|
|
Fm: John Hicks 76407,1264
|
|
To: Terry Ecker 71207,1165 (X)
|
|
|
|
> difficult to get b&w film developed and photos printed
|
|
commercially
|
|
|
|
It's much the same here in Orlando. The high-volume labs are
|
|
horrible;
|
|
the pro labs do a good job if you're not in a hurry.
|
|
I've been darkroom-less for two years, and I'm about to use that
|
|
spare bedroom for something other than storage. I do miss the
|
|
newspaper
|
|
darkroom.
|
|
|
|
It sounds like your dealer is someone you can trust. He could
|
|
have
|
|
made more money by selling you an off-brand lens, but he steered
|
|
you
|
|
straight.
|
|
|
|
> Frankly, I don't even know what Ilford HP-5 and Kodak T-Max
|
|
> are. Please elaborate; I'm serious about this.
|
|
|
|
OK, here goes.
|
|
You're used to Tri-X. It's a great film. Ilford HP-5 is Ilford's
|
|
(a Brit. mfgr.) equivalent to Tri-X. I prefer it because the middle
|
|
to
|
|
light tones show more separation of tonal values, which helps in
|
|
newspaper reproduction.
|
|
If you're simply making prints, or going for reproduction on
|
|
coated
|
|
stock (slick magazines), it's six of one, half-dozen of the other.
|
|
Try
|
|
both and use whichever gives you the results you prefer.
|
|
Kodak T-Max films are b&w films which use a new emulsion which
|
|
gives
|
|
slightly finer grain and sharper images. They're available in ISO
|
|
100,
|
|
400 and 3200. The downside of the T-Max 100 and 400 films are that
|
|
there's practically no margin for error.
|
|
|
|
*continued*
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#: 84961 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
05-Jan-91 12:37:58
|
|
Sb: #84891-UFO Camouflage?
|
|
Fm: John Hicks 76407,1264
|
|
To: Terry Ecker 71207,1165 (X)
|
|
|
|
The old "expose for the shadows and let the highlights fend for
|
|
themselves" and "f8 and be there" don't apply to T-Max films.
|
|
They're
|
|
great for studio work, but a real pain if you can't control the
|
|
lighting. Also they're very finicky in developing.
|
|
Kodak T-Max 3200, though, is great stuff. Consider it to be
|
|
almost
|
|
exactly the same as Tri-X, but with an effective speed of 1600. You
|
|
can
|
|
push-process it out to around 6400 before it poops out.
|
|
Now, to developers etc.
|
|
D-76 is an old standby. However, I hate mixing powders, so I
|
|
prefer liquid concentrate chemicals.
|
|
Kodak HC-110 could be considered to be a liquid D-76. It'll give
|
|
you aboutthe same results. If you hate powders but like D-76,
|
|
HC-110 is
|
|
a good choice.
|
|
My pick is Kodak T-Max developer. It's a liquid concentrate
|
|
developer
|
|
(mix the concentrate with water) that gives a little more shadow
|
|
detail,
|
|
a little less grain and a little sharper images than D-76 or
|
|
HC-110.
|
|
It's supposedly intended for the T-Max films, but gives great
|
|
results with everything. A good starting point using T-Max
|
|
developer is
|
|
to develop Tri-X or HP-5 at the same time/temp. as listed for T-Max
|
|
400
|
|
film.
|
|
Speaking of liquids, you can use Kodak Rapid Fixer (liquid)
|
|
rather
|
|
than the regular powdered stuff. Fix film for about two minutes
|
|
rather
|
|
than five.
|
|
For paper, Kodak Ektaflo chemicals are great. These (dev & fix)
|
|
are
|
|
liquid concentrates that you mix as needed. They may seem expensive
|
|
at
|
|
first, but the one-gallon sizes last a long time.
|
|
|
|
*continued*
|
|
|
|
#: 84962 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
05-Jan-91 12:38:22
|
|
Sb: #84891-#UFO Camouflage?
|
|
Fm: John Hicks 76407,1264
|
|
To: Terry Ecker 71207,1165 (X)
|
|
|
|
Kodak Polycontrast papers (use filters to select contrast grades)
|
|
have some developer incorporated into the emulsion, but that means
|
|
that
|
|
you don't really have much control over development.
|
|
Better (imho) is Kodak Polyprint. It doesn't have developer
|
|
incorporated, er, or if it's a little too light at the normal
|
|
development time, you ca just let it cook a few minutes longer.
|
|
Hope this helps.
|
|
Also, I hope folks don't mind these few entirely off-topic
|
|
messages. ;-)
|
|
|
|
jbh
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#: 85203 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
06-Jan-91 18:14:55
|
|
Sb: #84962-UFO Camouflage?
|
|
Fm: Terry Ecker 71207,1165
|
|
To: John Hicks 76407,1264 (X)
|
|
|
|
Thanks, John; I will take your advice.
|
|
|
|
RE: "I hope folks don't mine these few entire off-topic messages.":
|
|
|
|
I, too. Of course, the folks here do seem to grant a little
|
|
tolerance to us lost Fukawe Indians. :-)
|
|
|
|
Terry
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#: 84973 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
05-Jan-91 13:50:10
|
|
Sb: #84891-#UFO Camouflage?
|
|
Fm: Darrell Green 72406,1736
|
|
To: Terry Ecker 71207,1165 (X)
|
|
|
|
Terry, if you want to get into B&W astrophotography, here's a
|
|
little
|
|
tip. Far and away, the best B&W film for astrophotography is Kodak
|
|
2415
|
|
Tech Pan.
|
|
Develop it in Kodak D-19 for 4 minutes @ 68 degrees. It yields
|
|
very
|
|
high contrast and extremely fine grain. For long exposure
|
|
astrophotos
|
|
of faint objects you will want to gas-hypersensitize the film
|
|
before
|
|
exposure to greatly reduce reciprocity failure -- but that is a
|
|
whole
|
|
other subject.
|
|
|
|
I realize that astrophotography was not the main thrust of your
|
|
message, but I thought I throw out this info in case you found it
|
|
helpful. <grin>
|
|
|
|
:dg
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#: 85202 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
06-Jan-91 18:14:48
|
|
Sb: #84973-UFO Camouflage?
|
|
Fm: Terry Ecker 71207,1165
|
|
To: Darrell Green 72406,1736 (X)
|
|
|
|
Thanks, Darrell. I appreciate advice, and expect I'll be seeking
|
|
more from you in the astronomy forum. :-)
|
|
|
|
Terry
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#: 85041 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
05-Jan-91 22:46:40
|
|
Sb: #84332-UFO Camouflage?
|
|
Fm: William McLaughlin 70401,523
|
|
To: Terry Rodemerk 76357,405
|
|
|
|
Terry:
|
|
|
|
Thanks for the reply. I (and many others) reject the
|
|
hypothesis that holds that UFO/abduction phenomena are the result
|
|
of an
|
|
extraterrestrial race who travel to Earth in spaceships for the
|
|
purpose
|
|
of studying our culture. There are just too many things that don't
|
|
fit.
|
|
|
|
Why do you suggest that the UFO phenomenon is only 50-60 years
|
|
old? Data of human/UFO/"alien" contact can be found going back
|
|
thousands
|
|
of years. They're often missed because the descriptions of these
|
|
events
|
|
are couched in the terminology of the religio-philosophical belief
|
|
system of the reporter. In pre-scientific cultures, these events
|
|
were
|
|
reported as contact with god/desses, faeries, leprechauns or the
|
|
like.
|
|
One of the interesting things one finds when comparing earlier
|
|
encounters with those of the present day is that there seems to be
|
|
a bit
|
|
of deception going on. They seem to tailor their appearances to the
|
|
belief-systems of the people they manifest to. One UFO in the
|
|
middle-ages dropped an anchor from the sky. This would seem
|
|
necessary to
|
|
folks who had been raised in the age of the great trading ships.
|
|
|
|
[CONTINUED]
|
|
|
|
#: 85042 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
05-Jan-91 22:46:50
|
|
Sb: #84332-UFO Camouflage?
|
|
Fm: William McLaughlin 70401,523
|
|
To: Terry Rodemerk 76357,405
|
|
|
|
[CONTINUED]
|
|
|
|
A large number of sightings around the turn of this century
|
|
contained reports of encounters with seemingly human occupants. The
|
|
airships were large and clanked and hissed like most of the
|
|
sophisticated machinery of the day did. When spoken to, they said
|
|
that
|
|
they were from a nearby state and were taking a flying machine of
|
|
their
|
|
invention to another state.
|
|
|
|
Many religious "miracles" bear a striking resemblance to UFO
|
|
contacts. The events at Fatima, Portugal in 1917 had all the
|
|
hallmarks
|
|
of a classic UFO encounter. I quote from Vallee's "Dimensions":
|
|
"The
|
|
events at Fatima involve luminous spheres, lights with strange
|
|
colors,
|
|
a feeling of 'heat waves'-all physical characteristics commonly
|
|
associated with UFOs. They even include the typical falling-leaf
|
|
motion
|
|
of the saucer zig-zagging through the air."
|
|
|
|
Although the "alien" only said she was "from Heaven", the
|
|
people
|
|
and the church decided that she was the Virgin Mary. When people of
|
|
a
|
|
scientific culture have a similar experience, they interpret it as
|
|
an
|
|
alien culture which is more advanced than ours which is studying
|
|
us.
|
|
|
|
Mac
|
|
|
|
#: 85120 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
06-Jan-91 08:30:20
|
|
Sb: #84331-#UFO Camouflage?
|
|
Fm: Peggy Noonan 71760,1140
|
|
To: Terry Rodemerk 76357,405
|
|
|
|
Terry, I noticed your message to Luc Therrien in which you
|
|
mentioned
|
|
having the entire thread of the "UFO Camouflage" discussion in your
|
|
files. I didn't save it (actually I did save it in parts but
|
|
discovered
|
|
I'd erased sections of it -- oops! -- so it's gone now) and would
|
|
love
|
|
to have a copy. Would it be possible for you to send a duplicate
|
|
to me?
|
|
I'm not positive how you'd extract that single thread from your
|
|
program's memory (I've forgotten which you're using--TAP or ATO),
|
|
but it
|
|
would be possible to copy the "saved" file and even to use a
|
|
compression
|
|
program to shrink it before sending. Maybe one of the others can
|
|
give
|
|
details on the how to part of the electronic transmission...if
|
|
that's
|
|
too difficult, though, or if you'd prefer to just print & mail it,
|
|
I'd
|
|
be delighted to send you my address (Email) and to reimburse your
|
|
mailing & printing costs. Let me know if you it could work out,
|
|
okay?
|
|
Thanks! (BTW, I thought sure that this thread would wind up in the
|
|
library here on CIS but I have not found it--have you? Anyone?)
|
|
==PN==
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#: 85126 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
06-Jan-91 11:18:00
|
|
Sb: #85120-UFO Camouflage?
|
|
Fm: Bob Trevithick 73567,2675
|
|
To: Peggy Noonan 71760,1140 (X)
|
|
|
|
Peggy and Terry,
|
|
|
|
I don't know what, if any, problems there may be in this forum
|
|
regarding
|
|
disk quotas, so this may be a bad idea. But why not just upload
|
|
that
|
|
thread to the lib so anyone can grab it? I would like a copy
|
|
myself...
|
|
|
|
In at least one other forum I participate in heavily, there is an
|
|
ongoing struggle to keep the number of files down to a reasonable
|
|
level
|
|
because CIS only grants the forum 'x' amount of disk space. Is
|
|
this the
|
|
case here? Any sysops around? :-)
|
|
|
|
Bob
|
|
|
|
|
|
#: 85121 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
06-Jan-91 08:30:43
|
|
Sb: #84421-#UFO Camouflage?
|
|
Fm: Peggy Noonan 71760,1140
|
|
To: bruce johnson 72727,2312 (X)
|
|
|
|
Bruce, In case you have not already received this info by the time
|
|
I
|
|
come back online, the HOPI PROPHESIES article was in the Rocky
|
|
Mountain
|
|
News, Dec 24,
|
|
1990. Because of the CIS deal with RMN, I can't quote the whole
|
|
thing
|
|
here, but the gist of it is "It's starting to get close to the
|
|
(world's)
|
|
last stages," according to Hope Elder Martin Gashweseoma. He and
|
|
others
|
|
are urging the governor at Santa Fe to use his influence to help
|
|
deliver
|
|
the Hopi message of peace "or there is no hope for the nations to
|
|
survive." He says there have been four appeals already, one to the
|
|
United Nations, and the last chance has been given to America
|
|
(there's
|
|
something religiously special to the Hopi about Santa Fe and that's
|
|
why
|
|
they're mounting the last appeal there.) Gashweseoma's speech (20
|
|
min)
|
|
was translated into English, and he then produced to small bits of
|
|
sacred stone tablets which had told the Hopi to watch for certain
|
|
signs
|
|
that the world's on a dangerous course: famine, sickness,
|
|
earthquakes,
|
|
natural disasters, and finally a dangerous buildup of powerful
|
|
weapons
|
|
"destructive to all mankind." Apparently they feel that the signs
|
|
have
|
|
all been met and there's just one last shot at stopping
|
|
destruction, and
|
|
that only will work if the American option is exercised starting
|
|
with
|
|
the governor of New Mexico at Santa Fe. They call it the "last
|
|
chance"
|
|
to stop warmongering and restore the Earth's balance or else risk
|
|
the
|
|
end of the world. According to this report, the Hopis foretold the
|
|
Hiroshima and the development of the UN and listed a number of
|
|
proofs
|
|
that the world is now out of balance.
|
|
Might be worth checking the Santa Fe, NM, papers for more
|
|
detailed
|
|
reports...if anyone's done this already, please let the rest of us
|
|
know what titles/dates to look for in our searches.
|
|
==Peggy==
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#: 85139 S10/Paranormal Issues
|
|
06-Jan-91 11:59:56
|
|
Sb: #85121-UFO Camouflage?
|
|
Fm: bruce johnson 72727,2312
|
|
To: Peggy Noonan 71760,1140
|
|
|
|
Peggy,
|
|
|
|
As you might know, the Hopi's gathered together on their sacred
|
|
mountain
|
|
in the last couple of years awaiting the end. I was wondering if
|
|
they
|
|
had a date in mind for the latest prediction. Well believe it or
|
|
not, I
|
|
guess we should all party hardy, eh? -b
|
|
*********************************************************************
|
|
* -------->>> THE U.F.O. BBS - http://www.ufobbs.com/ufo <<<------- *
|
|
********************************************************************* |