textfiles/ufo/UFOBBS/2000/2194.ufo

SUBJECT: UFOs TONITE RADIO SHOW                              FILE: UFO2194



--- Greetings Fellow UFO Guys and Gals ---

The following is a partial transcript from
Don Eckers' weekly talk show titled "UFOs Tonite."   Dons' featured
guest for this show was actor Dwight Schultz.    Don and Dwight had
quite an experience  recently  while doing some field investigation
down in Roswell, New Mexico.      

The show  "UFOs Tonite"  is broadcast by the  "Cable Radio Network"  
every Saturday night at 9pm PST.     "UFOs Tonite"  is available on
many cable systems across the country.     Contact your local cable
company for further information on how to pick up the  "Cable Radio
Network."    "UFOs Tonite"  can also be picked up by satellite dish
owners on SATCOM C3, transponder 23, audio 7.23mhz narrowband.

All back shows of  "UFOs Tonite"  can be obtained  on cassette tape 
by contacting "UFO Magazine" at 818-951-1250.

I hope you enjoy this post.  Any comments will be welcomed.

--Bill Ralls--

*********************************************************************

Don:  And we're back!  That's right, here you are Saturday night with 
me and me of course being Don Ecker.  The show is  "UFOs Tonite"  and 
you are listening to the  "Cable Radio Network."  Well, every week as 
you know, we  talk  about  one of  mankinds'  most  misunderstood yet 
mysterious phenomenon  ever  and that  of course is  UFOs.  Well, you 
know, a couple of months ago  I was privileged  to have an individual 
in here join us for the  first time, and he spoke  for the very first 
time publicly anywhere  about his fascination, interest and study  of 
this subject.  And if you were tuning in you probably heard that pro-
gram and it was a delight, and of course I'm talking about Mr. Dwight 
Schultz, star of screen and television.  Starring in such programs as 
the  "A Team", "Star Trek the Next Generation" and  just a whole list  
of too many to go on.  Well, tonight  Dwight is once again joining us 
in studio, and  we are going  to be talking  about something  that we 
haven't done a lot of as far as I'm concerned.  You know, each week I 
talk about and with people that are some of the  top researchers, the 
best known researchers  anywhere available today, especially  here in 
the United States.  Well, I haven't too often talked about my person-
al research and of course that's one of the things that  I do do, and 
recently on two out of state trips here Dwight was involved with this 
research with me.  And Dwight, I want to thank you  for joining us in 
studio, and  not only  are we going to be talking  about the research 
that we were involved in...[laughs]  But  one of the  most well known  
UFO cases around...Roswell.  And  ladies and gentlemen, he's  had  us 
cracking up in here  for fifteen minutes  before the show. [Dwight is 
snoring in the background]  Dwight, are you awake?  Hello!

Dwight:[JOKINGLY-French accent>  What? I'm sorry. I'm Valerie LeMont.  
I'm a  PHD in Vanilla.  I'm here to  check your pants.  Who  is this?  
Come now is this a joke?]  Don, you said, "do do."  
[Don and Dwight are cracking up]

Don: Did I say do do?

Dwight: Yes you did.  You said, "do do" Don. 

Don: [still cracking up] And if you'd like to join tonights conversa-
tion...  

Dwight: [laughs]  Thank you, Don.

Don: You can reach us by calling  818-352-7152  or  1-800-336-2225.

Dwight:  I have to say hello to my wife Wendy and my daughter Ava.

Don: Are they out there listening?

Dwight:  Yes, and  I know  my daughter is going to be going to bed to
bed here in a few minutes.  So I just wanted  to say  hello  and good
night sweetheart, to you too my darling wife, but I don't want you to 
go to sleep until the show is over.

Don: Well, this is a family show, you know?

Dwight:  Yes, it is, it  certainly  is, in  my house  it is.  We wear 
large fluorescent bulbs on our heads, sit around in the dark and lis-
ten to the show  every Saturday night.  That's practically the truth, 
ladies and gentlemen.  I am addicted to this show.
Don: You would  not believe  how many people  have told me  how upset
they are because I ruined their Saturday nights. 

Dwight: Well, it's true, it used to be Sunday.

Don: Yeah, it  used to be  Sunday nights, of course  nobody cared be-
cause they had to  go to work Monday, but now  they can't go out  and
party like they used to.

Dwight:  That's exactly right.

Don: Roswell, what a case.  And we were talking about that before the 
show tonight.  We were talking about aspects of the Roswell case, and 
our trip that we took down there recently.

Dwight: Yes, indeed.  We both went  the same time.  First time in our 
lives.  First time for you, right?

Don: Yeah, it was the first time.

Dwight:  First time for me and it was quite an experience.  We could-
n't get out because of the airline.  They take you in there, and they 
fly you in a beanie with a propeller on it. [laughs]

Don: [laughs] That's true, that's true! Two days we were stuck there, 
two days we were stuck there.  

Dwight: I have to get closer to the microphone.  I've just been given 
the note.

Don:  [laughs]  Well, let me say  the airline too, that we flew in on 
and then flew out...Mesa.  Promised, I was  gonna give them a heck of 
a plug.  If you ever have to go to  New Mexico, hitch hike don't fly, 
don't fly.

Dwight:  Yes, but it was, it was an  extraordinary experience  and is 
the word synchronizity(sp) or serendipity, things happened there that 
neither Don nor myself expected to happen. 

Don: Was this the first time that you were ever involved in an actual 
field investigation?

Dwight:  Yes, this was  my  very first time.  This is the  first time 
that I went with any, went with anybody  who knew anything about this 
to actually investigate some strange phenomenon.

Don: And that was a  current ongoing flap  that's still going on down 
there.

Dwight: Yes, Jose Escamilla.   And I was  baptized  with Mr.Ecker.

Don: [laughs-clears throat]  Yes, in more ways than one, I might add.

Dwight:  Yes, in more ways than one.

Don: If you  by any chance you caught the  "Hardcopy"  program, there 
was a segment  on...well, a week ago Friday  about this particular...
some of this footage.  This guy  who originally  had been living here  
in the  Los Angeles area, originally  from Roswell, moved back  after 
the earthquake, but  they have  had a ongoing series of sightings  of 
unusual objects, they aren't  the only people.  And while this is all 
going on  there is also at this point a huge air force operation that 
is  ongoing  called  "Operation Rolling Sand."  And now whether these 
"unidentifieds"  are a part of the  military operation, that's always 
possible knowing, you know,  or having at least  some kind of idea of 
what todays technology is, but whether it may be that or  perhaps the 
phenomenon is there  because  the military  is there.  Roswell, fifty 
years ago of course, that area, I shouldn't say  Roswell  itself, but 
that area of New Mexico there was a tremendous amount going on in the 
military, the sciences.  That's  the  general location  where the  "A 
bomb" was developed and tested.  The military had  brought back a lot 
of  captured  German "V2 rockets"  that they were testing.  There was  
"experimental radar testing" going on, and that's of course  when the 
incident, the 1947 incident happened.

Dwight: Well, it's more than that to.  It is the sense of history can 
be very imposing  when you arrive there  and  you realize  that some-
thing was supposed to have taken place almost fifty years ago.  Some-
thing that maybe changed the world,  maybe didn't, we don't know, the 
government supposedly knows.  You don't know  what's going to happen.
You somehow, you somehow feel  like you're a  part  of something, but 
everyone in that town talks about it.  It's  still alive there and it 
isn't just a question of well, you know, we're telling, we're telling 
tales here for the tourists because it is not a tourist town.

Don : No, you've got to work to get there.

Dwight:  You've got to  work very hard  to get there.  It's very iso-
lated and a lot of people will tell you  how difficult  it is to even 
get food there.  But everyone  talks about this incident and everyone 
has a story to tell and  they all seem to be  in the direction of  it
really happened, it's not a joke.  People don't  laugh about it, they 
don't joke  about it, they kind of  look...And sometimes  you'll find 
people  not interested, they don't  really want to  come out and talk 
about it, but they will.  No one laughs at this, this is  not a joke,
it's real, and it's a very strange feeling down there.

Don: It permeates our entire culture now.  Not only is there the film 
coming out  the end of this summer  sometime between July and August, 
at this point that's what we hear.  Even last night on Fox television
program "X-Files"...Roswell, the Roswell incident was mentioned.  You 
know, tonight what I would really like to do because I really want to 
go into this case  in some depth.  I would  love to hear from  all of 
you  skeptics, the  skeptical side  that is  out there.  Now, I'm not 
talking about mindless debunking, although we can deal with that too, 
but I'm talking about people  that genuinely are skeptical  about the 
idea of unidentified flying objects  number one, and  number two what 
in fact  these objects  may be  or represent.  You know, when we talk 
about UFOs we're talking about "not spaceships"  as many people auto-
matically assume.  We're  talking  about something  that  is  uniden-
tified, apparently is manufactured and is  flying around  demonstrat-
ing physics we don't normally attribute.

Dwight: But Don, I do want to say one thing here to.  To make it very 
clear that  we went to  Roswell  to investigate  current  phenomenon.  
Something that is  going on down there at this particular moment, but 
what happened was that  we were drawn into an event  that...the event 
that  took place  almost  fifty years ago  in an  almost unbelievable 
series of coincidences, and that is where I understood the madness of
UFO investigators  because you  seem to be chasing  the magic tail of  
the rabbit that you just see behind every corner and as you reach for 
the tail it's gone and around another corner.

Don:  And that's something  that we're going to be discussing tonight 
also.  An  unbelievable incident  that happened  that...it  seemed to 
come out of the "Twilight Zone."

Dwight: It certainly was...

Don: Rod Sterling would have been right at home there.

Dwight: Yes indeed.

Don: My guest this evening joining me in studio is Mr. Dwight Schultz 
a very good  personal friend of mine and a  star of screen and stage, 
and a gentleman that  for  the very first time  right here  at  "UFOs 
Tonite"  just several months ago  broached  his very deep interest in 
this subject publicly for the first time, which took a lot of courage 
because there are  many people  out there  that  don't look kindly on 
people with  this interest and that's  something else I would like to 
address tonight later about the  "new religion"  that  we are dealing 
with.  The  new religion  of course being  "science"  and  their very 
rigid ways of  looking at certain things  in our culture.  It's some-
thing that  we have to deal with  and  it's something  that we should 
address.

Don: Dwight, let's talk about the history of this to begin with. When 
we're talking about Roswell, a lot of people think that this is where 
it all started...Roswell, New Mexico, that's not true. The phenomenon 
goes back  many thousands of years, but as far as  contemporary times 
it started in the second world war.

Dwight: "Foo Fighters."

Don: Foo fighters. Now you weren't around then, I wasn't around then, 
but...

Dwight: Almost, not quite.

Don: Did...when you were growing up  did you hear anything about that 
as you were a young man?

Dwight:  No, I didn't hear  anything about...about the real sightings 
of unidentified flying objects.   I didn't  even...I think it was '52 
that was the big flap in DC?

Don: Yes.

Dwight:  Yes, I didn't even hear  anything about that.  It was motion 
pictures that brought me to UFOs.  I think the  first film that I re-
member was  "The Day The Earth Stood Still." 

Don: Oh, Robert Wise(sp)...tremendous film.

Dwight: Yes, Michael Reny(sp) and "Gort the Robot"  but yes I was not 
aware of the truth, it was all a fiction.  It wasn't until I actually 
started to read and I would read in the newspaper accounts when I was 
in grade school of people really seeing these things, and periodical-
ly there would be a radio program.

Don: Well, now you have told me you heard many of these programs back 
in those days, and I unfortunately did not.

Dwight: Yes, I saw the  "Armstrong Circle Theatre"  'cause my parents 
watched.  I saw the "Keyhoe" program and I wish that I could remember 
it, but I have a vague vague memory of it as a child back in '58, and 
I remembered the sound going off, and my father talking about it, and 
the  "big hubbub"  the following day  and what was...that there was a 
government coverup.  So, that  is in my psyche  from 1958.  And...

Don: That's  not something we heard a lot of  in those days, is it...
coverups?

Dwight: No, no not at all, but it was in the papers the following day 
after that show.

Don:  And that of course was when Major Donald Keyhoe was censored on 
the air live when he was trying to break away from the script that he 
was following to basically say that there were people in the congress 
that was interested in holding hearings on UFOs.

Dwight: Yes, and  I have a vague memory  of him being trashed for the 
next seven, eight, nine, ten years because I wasn't actively involved 
in this field.  I just remember him vaguely being trashed.  Then as I 
started to, started to go to high school.  I was the proud owner of a 
seven transistor Japanese radio.  I think  it actually was  American, 
it was an RCA, and at night I would get the AM transmissions from New 
York city.  At night  the signals would  come in very strong from the 
fifty thousand watt power houses..."WOR"  in particular, and I'd lis-
ten to Barry Farber(sp) and Long John Nebel(sp)  And these gentlemen,
Barry Farber, I remember...Ivan Sanderson(sp)  frequently would cover 
the subject of unidentified flying objects and the United States gov-
ernment and it's involvement in the subject, and  Long John Nebel who 
frequently had people with, with  interest in the subject  of UFOs on 
his program and I would fall asleep.  I don't think  my parents knew, 
but I would fall asleep late in the night.  Sometimes I would stay up 
until three o'clock, four o'clock  in the morning 'cause his show was 
from midnight, I believe until five.  And  that is where  I developed 
my interests, and that's where I also learned about the  Vietnam war.

Don: On Long John Nebel?

Dwight:  And Barry Farber  in particular, listening to the debates on 
those programs during the sixties, moving right along.  So, I'm radio 
educated, I listen to more radio than watch TV.

Don:  You know that's one of the wonderful things about this particu-
lar CRN network  because not only is it a radio signal, but it's spe-
cifically for television.  You know, where you can get them  both to-
gether.  We have  many people  around the country  that  are  in fact 
tuning in on satellite, it comes right in  on their...well, as a mat-
ter of fact, you told me that  you heard the show first on satellite. 
[satcom C3, transponder 23, 7.23mhz narrow]

Dwight: Yes, I had a dish in central California and I heard the show.

Don: Well, during all these times  Long John Nebel and  Keyhoe made a 
number of appearances on that and of course there were many others...
Frank Edwards(sp)  was covering the UFO beat.  Many of you people may 
not recognize the name of Frank Edwards, but he was an extremely pop-
ular very well respected radio broadcaster in the 50s and 60s who had 
written two books on UFOs...UFOs, I believe it was "Serious Business" 
and I'm trying to think of...or "Flying Saucers Serious Business" and 
I'm trying  to think of  the other book, but  Edwards  and  all these 
people...Edwards, Keyhoe none of them ever mentioned Roswell.  And if 
they talked  about  crashed UFOs  they were  talking about  basically 
Frank Sculley's(sp) book which was published...

Dwight: About the Aztec...

Don: No, 1950..."Behind The Flying Saucers" I believe...it's been too 
long ago, but that book has been pretty much roundly trashed, but not 
many heard of Roswell.  What do you attribute that to?   A successful 
coverup?  Because it was...it made  world wide news  just at the time 
it happened.

Dwight:  Well, it  certainly  is...yes, I mean, I think  this is  the 
great thing about libraries.  You can go back and...I think that's...
wasn't the front page of the Roswell...wasn't that  picked up  in the 
library?

Don: Yes, the Roswell Daily News.

Dwight:  This story was very quickly killed, and I think now when you 
look back and you see the history it's very clear that the government 
was quick to  step in and take this story right off the airwaves, and 
consequently  very few people knew about it, but with time  the truth 
does sort of leak out, and when people say that  the government can't 
keep a secret...well, to an extent  they  can continue to lie and say 
no it didn't happen, but over  three hundred people have come forward 
to say it's not a secret anymore.  So, in a sense they're right, they 
can't keep a secret, and it's only been since the 70s that I've heard 
the name  that I've actually seen material written about it, and I...
and  of course  with the recent book of  Randle  and  Schmitt's, "The 
Truth About The UFO Crash At Roswell", it's  all in  perspective now, 
and  it's not a trashy book, it's not a silly book, it's not a stupid
book, it's a  very well documented book that  ties some  very strange 
stories together, and  if  we are to believe  human beings, our  com-
patriots, I think there's something here to be studied.

Don: Roswell, when we were down there  still a relatively small rural 
town.  No  interstate highways  close by.  One  small little  airport 
where the airplanes work sometimes and sometimes they don't.  

Dwight: No radar.

Don:  I wanted to  mention that.  Not one bit of  commercial radar in 
that area.  We talked to several people about that too, and the citi-
zens down there want to know  why they don't have radar at their air-
port, but the military in fact had radar.

Dwight: But you have to say, it was the most incredible site  because 
when landed  in this little plane, and there  right next to the tower 
was...were the  camouflaged trucks  and  a few soldiers  all  wearing 
their fatigues, and this  little radar  spining at the end, all mili-
tary.

Don: And a lot of high tech jet aircraft flying around.

Dwight:  We saw  stealth aircraft, we saw stealth aircraft...what are 
they?  I mean...we saw an amazing number...

Don: Well, there were F16, F111-B tactical bombers, the F117 stealth.

Dwight: We saw these flying not just...

Don:  Yes, yeah, yeah  they  were  flying around, and  of course  the 
flashes of light  which were  moving incredibly fast.  Later checking 
the videotape some of these  appeared to be unidentified objects when 
we slowed the tape down...

Dwight: Well, your jumping ahead here.  We went to the site where the 
gentleman  Jose Escamilla  had said that  he had taken these shots of 
UFOs.  We'd  saw  some  videotape  that  had  been  given  to Don  by 
"Hardcopy"  and  it was  some  amazing footage, and  when you go down 
there  you don't know  what to expect, and suddenly you jump into the 
back of a car  and this fellow is taking you to the spot and it's the 
most...it's  the  strangest experience  because it's a little dirt...
[laughs] 

Don: [laughs] Well, it's midway, it's midway between Roswell and some 
other town. 

Dwight: And it's  this little tiny...you don't want to call it a mini 
mall ,but  it could be called  a mini mall  in New Mexico, but it was 
dusty and the people were  very ordinary individuals and they just...
[hispanic accent> "Yeah, they're  up there man, look at this!"]   And 
you want to say, I'm  not really  doing this, these people, this is a 
joke. [Hispanic accent> "Just put your camera up there, just put your
camera up there man and you'll get 'em."]   And  your saying to your-
self, Oh please! I have been fooled, this is silly. [Hispanic accent> 
"Just focus, focus on a plane, focus on anything  that's up there and
they'll come, they'll come."]   So, you  really think  you  are being 
silly and that's what happened, and sure enough  suddenly  there were 
these flashes.  I did not see them, but Don saw them, and I must tell
you I couldn't see the actual airplanes that were flying...I mean, my 
eyes  are not  that good, but  saw planes and I'm looking and looking 
and I'm not seeing...

Don:  But you were looking  through the  viewfinder of the camcorder.

Dwight: Yes, but they finally did come into view, so they really were 
there, but these flashes that Don saw while the videotape was rolling 
were real, and when  we went back  and checked the tape later concur-
rent with  his scream, there's  a flash, I see it.  Were  these...and 
there's  something  flying around the planes  very quickly, inexplic-
able...whether it was  intelligently piloted craft, I can't tell you, 
but I never seen anything quite like...So, there was something, some-
thing there going on, and we were only there for about two and a half 
hours and there were...

Don: Right, but at that time  Jose Escamilla already had over a solid 
one hundred hours of videotape  that  he and his brother  had already
stood out there and shot.

Dwight: And Hardcopy  had also captured on their cameras inexplicable 
objects, but  at any rate  you went there, we were there for  two and 
one half hours, and  we caught  something  in that two  and  one half 
hours.  I don't know what it is.  There's a lot of military activity, 
these  flashes of light, these objects  "little globes"  is what they 
look like moving around  changing directions at incredible speeds.  I 
don't know.  I would  love for someone  to tell me  what it was.

Don:   Well, Hardcopy  only showed  the  most minute amount  of  that 
videotape.  You know, some  of the  things  that we saw  Dwight.  One 
where  the white object  that appears  to have  a dome on it... 

Dwight:  Yes.

Don:  was hovering and something dropped down through the frame, that 
gray blob  or whatever the heck it was.  Another one where  a rod was 
flying from cloud to cloud.  There was  another sequence where he had 
what appeared  to be  a rod shaped craft  and  it looked like  it had 
several...

Dwight:  Globes on the bottom of it.

Don:  Right, globes on the bottom of it.  What in the world  that was 
is anybodies, anybodies guess.

Dwight: But again it's the difficult nature of this business.  You're 
sitting around  saying, what is that, what is that?  I  don't know, I 
don't know, I don't know, I  haven't seen anything  like that  before 
and so  what you end up with is  something  that you don't know.  But 
it's not explainable, maybe it is, but  no one  in a position  to ex-
plain it  is taking anytime  to explain it.

Don:  Well, you know, unlike the very recent Michigan sightings.  The 
Michigan sightings  which were verified  on their civilian commercial 
radar.  Roswell doesn't have that luxury. 

Dwight:  That's right.

Don:  And that's the one thing  that just  really amazed me.  Why did 
they not have radar?  I mean, they've had an airfield there since the 
second world war at least. 

Dwight: Well, I don't know.  I can't...we do know that they're trying 
to get radar there.  And you can being sufficiently paranoid as I am,
one can begin  to think  of reasons  why  they don't  have radar, but 
there maybe some explanation for it...why there's no civilian radar, 
but there's certainly military radar.

Don:  And they also have two UFO museums.

Dwight:  Yes, this is the  second part  of the story folks.  Don tell 
'em.

Don:  Two UFO museums.

Don:  But you know, Dwight, speaking about Roswell, let's  go back to 
Roswell for just a moment.  We were there.  We were  out at the sight 
where the strange things  were being seen.  Then we decided  to check 
out the folks that are working in  the UFO_biz  there  if you will at 
the museums and low and behold as we walk in...

Dwight: This was the UFO Enigma Museum.

Don:  The UFO Enigma Museum, which is run by Mr. John Price and their 
research director is Clifford Stone, former guest of this program and 
guy I have  a lot of respect  and  fondness  for.  We go in there and 
somebody that we'll call "Manny", because  we can't use his real name 
now, but  ladies and gentlemen  it was  the most strange occurrence I 
think that I've had happen to me personally in many years.  John come 
running out....

Dwight:  Well, first of all  you have to set the stage here.  We have 
gone into this  museum, and we went  there...it was empty.  There was 
nobody in it  but the proprietor, we got there  as soon as it opened.  
As I said, it's not a tourist town, and all  that you can see in this 
other room, there's  another room to the museum, and  all I could see 
were these legs and boots and  a table and  somebody was looking at a 
big book, and that was the only other person in the museum. Go ahead.

Don:  Well, John Price the owner  came running out, he saw me, recog-
nized me and  we shook hands, I introduced Dwight, and  the words out 
of his mouth and I didn't know quite what to make of it, but he said, 
Don, he said, "This gentleman  just came in  just before you guys got 
here, I'm sitting back, I'm talking to him, I think  you need to talk 
to him".  And I said, well  why would I need to talk to him John?  He 
said, "Well, this old fellow  claims  that he was one of the MPs that 
was here  at the  old Walker Air Base, the Roswell Army Air Base, and 
he was one of the people guarding the crash site when this happened".  
And I was stunned, I didn't know, and I said, well you know, has any-
body ever talked to this guy before?  He said, "No, he literally came 
in  out of the blue".  So, Dwight...  we  walk in, sit down, meet the 
gentleman... we'll call him  "Manny" for now, and what was your first 
impressions?

Dwight: [laughs] Well, he said  something that was extraordinary, and 
that was... and Jonathan Price said this  under his breath to Don.  I 
was sitting off...I mean, I'm not an expert, I'm just  trailing along 
here having the experience, gritty experience of an  UFO investigator 
and Mr. Price walked up to Don and said, [whispering>  "We got a gen-
tleman in here and he says he's got a piece of it, [Don laughs]  says 
he's got a piece of the saucer".]  And of course I...[laughs] I mean, 
who in  fifty years  has said  they have  a piece of  it?  I mean,  I 
haven't...I mean, I've  heard tell  that there is  a piece of  it.  I 
haven't actually...no one has yet formally come forward and said, hey 
I've got a piece of it.  And  he was looking, the gentleman was look-
ing at  what you would call  a yearbook  that the museum  had put to-
gether.....

Don:  It was a unit history book.

Dwight: Yes, a unit history book.  And he was  having trouble finding 
himself.  And  I said, [skeptically>   Ah, well there you go...here's 
somebody who's come here for a little notoriety or whatever, he can't 
find himself in the book, he's going to say that he was there, but he 
just can't happen to find himself.]   So, the gentleman wore glasses, 
he was elderly, and  he was  various going from  page to page, and he 
said, "I  can't find  myself".  And  Don  came in, Don  sat down  and 
started talking to him, and then  I started looking through the book. 
And I just started looking for  Manny's name and there it was, he had 
missed it, he  was  there.

Don:  And  not only  was he there, but  when he had gone down to this 
museum, he had  gone down thinking  that there was  going to be a re-
union of all his old buddies  from the 509th at this particular time, 
which didn't make any sense  to us.

Dwight: He said, "Reunion, I came here for a reunion, I saw it on the 
TV, they were having a reunion, and  they asked people to come".  And 
suddenly it became clear that "Showtime" had been publicizing...well, 
first of all  Randle and Schmitt  held a press conference...

Don:  Right, in Roswell.

Dwight:   for their book, and  Showtime  had been  publicizing  their 
movie, and the movie...the premise of the film is a reunion.  And the 
old man  saw some  PR  for the book, heard  the press release for the 
book and the people promoting it saying, anybody who has any informa-
tion  please come forward, and  then he saw  the promo  for the movie 
about a reunion, and he thought that  that's what was going to occur.
  
  
Don:  And it wasn't...he was wrong, but  he came up anyway, and as we 
found out  the story  even gets stranger.

Don:  So, we're  down there, here's  this  old fellow  we're  calling 
Manny.  We  find his...you  find his photograph  in  the book, and he 
brought along some...his  marriage certificate  to prove  that he had 
been married at  the 509th by a certain officer, which we have copies 
of that stuff, and  then  tell them  what  he said  about his "little 
men."  This was one of the most fan...and  it just literally came out 
of nowhere.

Dwight:  Well, first  he described everything  that happened, that he 
was there, that he saw it, and basically he retold the story in basic 
terms  that's been told  many times now.  And  he said  he carved the 
"little men", he called them his "little men" he carved them and then 
he said, with a glint in his eye,  "Why would I do that, why  would I 
do that?"...he did say that.  I said,[joking>  For  about twenty five 
thousand dollars  and  a stint on a TV show, is that right?...no.  He 
said, "Why would I do that?"  And he carved these "little men" and he 
said  his daughter  and  his son  saw it  and  he had  a piece of the 
saucer.  He said, he got the biggest piece  and he took it out and he
said that his son  knew where it was, it was  in the attic.  He said, 
he put it there, and he  told the story  of how he was sent away from 
Roswell  to an island  immediately after the retrieval  and that they 
never saw... anybody  that was involved  in the retrieval  no one saw 
each other again, they were all sent  to different places and then he 
was...it caused  a disturbance in his family  and that his wife peti-
tioned the base  because she said  she was  going to kill herself and 
kill her children if they didn't send him back  and he eventually did 
come back and then he went off to the Korean war.

Don:  And we saw his military records because we took a trip to where 
this gentleman lives, which I'm not going to identify, but we took...

Dwight:  But he is legit... 

Don:  The man is...

Dwight: But he disappeared, first the story is he disappeared, he got 
up and walked...he said  "I'm leaving."  He got up and walked out and 
Don  being very pensive  and  paranoid  just kept saying, "Dwight, we 
should have  followed him, we should have  taken him home with us, we 
should have  taken  him back, we  should  have, we  shoulda, shoulda, 
woulda, coulda.  And  we didn't, we couldn't, weren't there  for that 
purpose, but yes, this is what happens  you're taken, you're taken in 
some other direction.

Don:  Well, you're in such a  weird space.  Do we believe this, do we 
don't believe this?  I mean...

Dwight:  But his picture was in the book, he was there!  this man was 
there and he was telling a story that personally effected him and his 
family  and he told of  his son and his daughter.  Well, we  left and 
came back to Los Angeles, and low and behold Don tries to get in con-
tact with this gentleman  and finds out  that the old man is missing, 
and is talking to  his daughter  and  his daughter says, "that he had 
been  missing  for a week"  and she was  crying.  And  to make a long 
story short, we  directed them  to where he might be, they found him, 
they took him back.  We  talked to  his son and his daughter and they 
corroborated his story...that  the old man had said he had a piece of 
it, they called it  the "rock", it  just looked like  a dull piece of 
metal, but they called it the "rock" and old man had had it for years 
and they just thought that his was  a crazy old man, but  many...they 
all corroborated this, they all corroborated the story and everything 
that he had said about being  sent away  and they just thought he was 
an old man  telling stories.  And he... they  made fun of him in fact 
they laughed at him and now they...

Don: But they were very pensive after we spoke to them, very pensive.

Dwight: This is true ladies and gentlemen that the family felt sorry.
I mean, they were in a little bit of pain  about how they had treated 
their father all these years  because they didn't believe him and now 
there is... basically  when his wife died  all of his belongings were  
somewhere  left in this house  somewhere, sold somewhere, crated away 
and now there is a mad rush  to look for this rock  that they all saw 
and now that they know  is valuable and  maybe important.  So it's...

Don: Perhaps.

Dwight: It's a very very bizarre situation.  How can you get so close 
as to have somebody say I saw it  and then  to meet a family and say, 
"yeah, we  didn't believe it, we threw it out, it was  a paperweight, 
it was sitting on the TV."  They're looking through photos of the TV, 
looking for a picture of this thing, a paperweight  which was a piece 
perhaps, perhaps from a flying saucer or as I told Don, maybe  it's a 
'46 Chrysler, but we've got to find out.

Don:  Yes, it could be a 1946 Chrysler, think about that.

Don:  You saw what I got in the mail this week from Manny?

Dwight:  Yes, I did see that.

Don:  The fellow  that we were talking about turned around and carved 
several more of his little men to show us exactly what it was that he 
carved back in '47, '48.

Dwight:  And it's right on the button folks.   Not only that, he also 
corroborated  some other things  which  we have heard  which have not 
been published or not...  I don't think  they have been verified, but 
he says that  "they came back"  and that  "they came back looking for 
the crashed saucer",  and  we actually heard that  while we were down 
there from someone else  who is very knowledgeable.  I mean, there is 
no way of verifying that, but  we had just heard this story  prior to 
the old man telling it  and it also sent  chills up my spine  to hear 
that  because  you were hearing another military, someone else in the 
military telling part of the story  that you hadn't heard before  be-
cause he was one of the MPs who was  guarding the site, and  it was a 
very strange experience.

Don:  If somebody would have told me that this was going to happen. I 
would have said, the only way  this could have happened  is if it was 
orchestrated, but yet this wasn't.

Dwight:   No, it was  truly  serendipitous  and we were there and the 
story  may not  be  over yet, but  if it is  for this gentleman, he's
another verification, another  eye witness  to an incident  that bog-
gles the mind.

*********************** End of Transcript ***************************

... Keep your eyes to the skies!!!


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