700 lines
26 KiB
Plaintext
700 lines
26 KiB
Plaintext
SUBJECT: TRANSCRIPT OF MATERIAL FROM KLAS SEGMENT FILE: UFO1828
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
326/417 07 Dec 89 14:43:00
|
|
From: Robert Klinn
|
|
To: All
|
|
Subj: UFOs: The Best Evidence Altered?
|
|
Attr:
|
|
------------------------------------------------
|
|
<...Continued from previous message>
|
|
|
|
[CUT:]
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
I don't think that you can ever synthesize it. The amount
|
|
of -- You essentially have to assemble it by bombarding it with
|
|
protons; if atom by atom, it would take an infinite amount of power
|
|
and an infinite amount of time. The substance has to come from a
|
|
place where super-heavy elements could have been produced naturally.
|
|
|
|
[CUT:]
|
|
Knapp:
|
|
And what sort of place is that?
|
|
|
|
[CUT:]
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Next to a much larger sun where there would be greater mass.
|
|
Maybe a binary star system -- a super-nova -- somewhere where there is
|
|
just a bigger release of energy to synthesize these things naturally.
|
|
It has to be a naturally occurring element.
|
|
|
|
[CUT:]
|
|
Knapp:
|
|
115 is the fuel for the anti-matter reactors, he says. By bombarding
|
|
115, anti-matter is produced. A kilo of anti-matter could produce the
|
|
energy equivalent of 46 ten-megaton hydrogen bombs, and comparing the
|
|
energy potential of anti-matter to, say, the Hoover Dam, would be
|
|
like comparing planets to grains of sand. 115 could also make one
|
|
heck of a bomb.
|
|
|
|
[CUT:]
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
We're talking about hundreds and hundreds of megatons off a small
|
|
piece of it. It sounds incredible, but total conversion of matter
|
|
to energy would release that amount of power. And it isn't that
|
|
difficult to take -- get the energy out of it. So it's not something
|
|
you'd ever want to fall into anyone's hands.
|
|
|
|
[CUT:]
|
|
Knapp:
|
|
The dangers associated with 115 and anti-matter may be the reason
|
|
Lazar was hired to work at S-4. There was an accident, he says,
|
|
back in April 1987, an accident that was passed off as an unannounced
|
|
nuclear test.
|
|
|
|
[CUT:]
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Some people got killed. I was told flat out I was one of the people
|
|
that were to replace these guys.
|
|
|
|
[CUT:]
|
|
Knapp:
|
|
Is this why the government might be keeping the whole matter a
|
|
secret? Because of the military potential of alien technology?
|
|
Lazar says he believes the Soviet Union was once part of our
|
|
research on the flying disks, but that the U.S. kicked the Soviets
|
|
out after making some sort of discovery. He also believes the
|
|
program at S-4 is operated with funds allocated to Star Wars research,
|
|
but says he can't prove it. Some UFO researchers suspect the
|
|
government is test flying alien craft so that it can one day master
|
|
the technology and claim it was made in the good old U.S.A., thus
|
|
obscuring the possibility of alien visitations.
|
|
|
|
[CUT:]
|
|
Stanton T. Friedman:
|
|
I think they have the duty to inform us. At least to the bare bones
|
|
of what's going on. I don't want technological stuff put out on the
|
|
table. I mean, I worked on classified projects for 15 years, and
|
|
I don't think we need another weapon's delivery system. But I
|
|
think the government does have the responsibility to release information
|
|
that, indeed, the planet is being visited. Probably it should be done
|
|
in conjunction with the Soviets.
|
|
|
|
[CUT:]
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
I don't think that it will get to that level. They're not going to have
|
|
a fleet of them and fly them around, and I don't think you need to do
|
|
that. If you're looking at them from a weapons point of view, you're
|
|
looking at an incredibly powerful device. You only need one that
|
|
operates. You don't ever need to come public with it. You may want to
|
|
learn more about it should it ever break which is -- might be -- what
|
|
they're doing.
|
|
|
|
[CUT:]
|
|
Knapp:
|
|
They've got one --
|
|
|
|
[CUT:]
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
-- Oh, they've got a few. Yeah.
|
|
|
|
[CUT:]
|
|
Lazar is the first to admit that his story is tough to swallow.
|
|
He submitted to polygraph exams, has opened up sensitive parts of
|
|
his personal life, and fully expects to be ridiculed or perhaps
|
|
punished for his revelations.
|
|
[END CUT.]
|
|
_______
|
|
|
|
[The hypnotherapy discussion of Segment 7 further below has been
|
|
totally replaced by the following short summary included in the
|
|
broadcast of 11/25/89. Note that reference to a mind-control technique
|
|
by Lazar's U.S. government employers has been excised.]
|
|
|
|
Knapp:
|
|
Lazar wanted to recall further details from reports he says he read
|
|
at S-4, so he went to Layne Keck, a licensed and experienced
|
|
hypnotherapist. Keck makes no exaggerated claims about the powers
|
|
of hypnosis, but he did help dredge up some specifics from the
|
|
reports. He is confident about that, that Lazar is not making this up.
|
|
|
|
Keck:
|
|
His subconscious mind believes TOTALLY all of these things.
|
|
|
|
<Continued next message...>
|
|
|
|
|
|
SEEN-BY: 19/19 101/667 104/422 428 114/37 115/876 120/80 132/113
|
|
SEEN-BY: 133/107 138/111 140/32 141/790 147/66 231/40 252/18
|
|
SEEN-BY: 265/12 268/102 283/630 304/1 3 363/17 371/10 382/33
|
|
SEEN-BY: 1063/304 3607/20 30163/3 22 150 401
|
|
|
|
|
|
327/417 07 Dec 89 17:13:00
|
|
From: Robert Klinn
|
|
To: All
|
|
Subj: UFOs: The Best Evidence Altered?
|
|
Attr:
|
|
------------------------------------------------
|
|
(C) 1989 ParaNet Information Service
|
|
|
|
"UFO's: The Best Evidence": The Altered Version
|
|
|
|
The two versions of "UFO's: The Best Evidence":
|
|
|
|
Version One:
|
|
Nine parts (10-15 minutes each):
|
|
November 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 13, 14, 15, and 16, 1989
|
|
|
|
Version Two:
|
|
November 25, 1989
|
|
|
|
On-air, producer/newsman George Knapp had said the 11/25/89, 8:00 p.m. to
|
|
10:00 p.m., broadcast of "UFO's: The Best Evidence" (KLAS-TV, Channel 8
|
|
in Las Vegas), would include the substance as well as UPDATES of the
|
|
material broadcast earlier as the nine-part series with the same title.
|
|
|
|
At the end of the ninth segment of the series, he also had said his
|
|
investigation -- pursuant to physicist Robert Lazar's and others' claims
|
|
about recovered alien vehicles at Area 51 or S-4 inside the U.S.
|
|
Government's Nevada Test Site -- "will continue."
|
|
|
|
And earlier in the series, Knapp had said this was "only the beginning,"
|
|
that the investigation is "by no means over."
|
|
|
|
On 11/21/89, 10:00 p.m. until 1:00 a.m., speaking on KVEG 840-AM Radio's
|
|
Billy Goodman Happening, Lazar himself had said he was informed that
|
|
Knapp's upcoming 11/25/89, two-hour, KLAS-TV report would contain "much
|
|
more information" than Knapp's earlier, nine-part broadcasts.
|
|
|
|
But Knapp later told me that although he is personally interested in more
|
|
UFO material about Area 51, there is no more budget at his station to
|
|
pursue it.
|
|
|
|
Significant previously-broadcast segments are missing from the 11/25/89
|
|
version. Nothing new -- no promised "updates" -- has been added. On the
|
|
contrary, highly pertinent descriptions by Lazar, hypnotherapist Layne
|
|
Keck, and Knapp himself have been cut -- in perhaps the most interesting
|
|
and revealing places.
|
|
|
|
Knapp -- apparently sincere and hardworking -- now gives "time constraints"
|
|
imposed by the number of commercials that had to be inserted into the
|
|
11/25/89 version as the reason for the cuts and the lack of additional
|
|
material.
|
|
|
|
He justifies the almost entire elimination of Segment Seven
|
|
(originally broadcast 11/14/89) -- including Lazar's explanations of
|
|
the alien element 115, time warp and its relation to gravity waves,
|
|
the production of gravity waves, and the military potential of the
|
|
alien technology -- by dismissing that material as merely "details."
|
|
|
|
Surprisingly, Knapp graciously said, "I apologize."
|
|
|
|
Military potential -- not only of the recovered alien craft but
|
|
perhaps of more earthly forces -- may have been revealed by other cuts,
|
|
including the stunning suspicion by Lazar that "his government employers
|
|
used some sort of mind control technique to prevent him from disclosing
|
|
too much about S-4" and the discussion by hypnotherapist Keck of
|
|
Lazar's possibly being subjected to tremendous fear, threats, and
|
|
chemicals.
|
|
|
|
And what might be the military implications of this portion of
|
|
Lazar's statement as broadcast in Segment 6 (11/13/89) but cut from
|
|
the 11/25/89 version?
|
|
|
|
"One of them looked like it was hit with some sort of a
|
|
projectile. It had a large hole in the bottom and a large hole in
|
|
the top with the metal bent out like some sort of, you know, large
|
|
caliber 4- or 5-inch projectile had gone through it."
|
|
|
|
Was the following stuff cut just to make room for commercials?
|
|
|
|
Knapp:
|
|
115 is the fuel for the anti-matter reactors, he says. By
|
|
bombarding 115, anti-matter is produced. A kilo of anti-matter
|
|
could produce the energy equivalent of 46 ten-megaton hydrogen bombs,
|
|
and comparing the energy potential of anti-matter to, say, the Hoover
|
|
Dam, would be like comparing planets to grains of sand. 115 could also
|
|
make one heck of a bomb.
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
We're talking about hundreds and hundreds of megatons off a small piece
|
|
of it. It sounds incredible, but total conversion of matter to
|
|
energy would release that amount of power. And it isn't that difficult
|
|
to take. . .get the energy out of it. So it's not something you'd ever
|
|
want to fall into anyone's hands.
|
|
|
|
Knapp:
|
|
The dangers associated with 115 and anti-matter may be the reason Lazar
|
|
was hired to work at S-4. There was an accident, he says, back in
|
|
April 1987. An accident that was passed off as an unannounced nuclear
|
|
test.
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Some people got killed. I was told flat out I was one of the people
|
|
that were to replace these guys.
|
|
|
|
<Continued next message...>
|
|
|
|
|
|
SEEN-BY: 19/19 101/667 104/422 428 114/37 115/876 120/80 132/113
|
|
SEEN-BY: 133/107 138/111 140/32 141/790 147/66 231/40 252/18
|
|
SEEN-BY: 265/12 268/102 283/630 304/1 3 363/17 371/10 382/33
|
|
SEEN-BY: 1063/304 3607/20 30163/3 22 150 401
|
|
|
|
|
|
328/417 07 Dec 89 17:15:00
|
|
From: Robert Klinn
|
|
To: Robert Klinn
|
|
Subj: UFOs: The Best Evidence Altered?
|
|
Attr:
|
|
------------------------------------------------
|
|
Part 2
|
|
<...Continued from previous message>
|
|
|
|
_______
|
|
|
|
The following appeared in the original nine segments but NOT in
|
|
the 11/25/89 broadcast. To retain context, some uncut material has
|
|
been included.
|
|
|
|
Segment 5 (11/10/89):
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Well, I am telling the truth. I've tried to prove that. What's
|
|
going on up there could be the most important event in history.
|
|
You're talking about contact, physical contact and proof from another
|
|
system, another planet, another intelligence. That's got to be the
|
|
biggest event in history -- period. And, it's real and it's there.
|
|
|
|
[CUT:]
|
|
Lazar (continuing):
|
|
And I had an extremely small part in it. I'm convinced that what
|
|
I saw is absolute proof of that. There is no way that we could have
|
|
created those disks. There is no way we could have made the disks,
|
|
the power supplies, anything that goes with it.
|
|
[END CUT.]
|
|
|
|
Segment 5 (11/10/89):
|
|
|
|
[CUT:]
|
|
Lazar says he has no intention of going on any UFO lecture circuit.
|
|
He is not looking to do any additional interviews. In fact, he was not
|
|
too crazy about doing this one. He did it after certain unfavorable
|
|
things started happening in his life, and he did it because he feels
|
|
that whoever is running the show up at S-4 is perpetrating a fraud on
|
|
the American people and the scientific community.
|
|
[END CUT.]
|
|
|
|
Segment 6 (11/13/89):
|
|
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
I gave everything simple names -- the "top hat" one and, you know, the
|
|
"jello mold"; and the "sport model" operated without any hitches at all.
|
|
I mean, it looked new. If I know what a new flying saucer looks like.
|
|
|
|
[CUT:]
|
|
Lazar (continuing):
|
|
One of them looked like it was hit with some sort of a projectile.
|
|
It had a large hole in the bottom and a large hole in the top with the
|
|
metal bent out like some sort of, you know, large-caliber 4- or 5-inch
|
|
projectile had gone through it.
|
|
[END CUT.]
|
|
|
|
Segment 6 (11/13/89):
|
|
|
|
Knapp:
|
|
Bob Lazar isn't the only person to claim "inside knowledge" of the
|
|
flying disks at the test site -- he is just the only person to say
|
|
so publicly. We have communicated with several people who say they
|
|
know of the saucer program. A technician in a highly sensitive position
|
|
told us it is "common knowledge among those with high security
|
|
clearances that recovered alien disks are stored at the Nevada Test
|
|
Site." A Las Vegas professional, who once served in the military and
|
|
was stationed at the Test Site, says he saw a flying disk land
|
|
outside the boundaries of Area 51 --
|
|
|
|
[CUT:]
|
|
Knapp (continuing):
|
|
-- that it was quickly surrounded by security personnel and that he
|
|
was taken away and debriefed for several hours.
|
|
[END CUT.]
|
|
|
|
Segment 6 (11/13/89):
|
|
|
|
Knapp:
|
|
A man who once worked at Groom Lake as a technician, at our
|
|
request, wrote this letter explaining how he inadvertently walked
|
|
into the wrong hangar and saw what appeared to be a large metallic
|
|
disk under a tarp.
|
|
|
|
[CUT:]
|
|
Knapp (continuing):
|
|
It was being examined by men in lab coats.
|
|
[END CUT.]
|
|
|
|
Knapp (continuing):
|
|
And an airman who worked at Nellis at a radar installation says he
|
|
and his fellow servicemen watched over a period of five nights,
|
|
unusual objects flying over the Groom Mountains. He says the radar
|
|
images indicate the objects zoomed into range at speeds of 7,000 miles
|
|
per hour and then would stop on a dime, and that nothing we have is
|
|
capable of doing that. The airman says that when word of his sighting
|
|
got out, he was ordered to turn off his radar sensors for that area
|
|
and told to keep quiet about the matter because it did not happen.
|
|
|
|
Segment 6 (11/13/89):
|
|
|
|
[CUT:]
|
|
Knapp:
|
|
Tomorrow, more troubling allegations about the military potential
|
|
of alien technology.
|
|
[END CUT.]
|
|
|
|
<Continued in Next Message...>
|
|
|
|
|
|
SEEN-BY: 19/19 101/667 104/422 428 114/37 115/876 120/80 132/113
|
|
SEEN-BY: 133/107 138/111 140/32 141/790 147/66 231/40 252/18
|
|
SEEN-BY: 265/12 268/102 283/630 304/1 3 363/17 371/10 382/33
|
|
SEEN-BY: 1063/304 3607/20 30163/3 22 150 401
|
|
|
|
|
|
329/417 07 Dec 89 17:17:00
|
|
From: Robert Klinn
|
|
To: Robert Klinn
|
|
Subj: UFOs: The Best Evidence Altered?
|
|
Attr:
|
|
------------------------------------------------
|
|
Part 3
|
|
<...Continued from previous Message>
|
|
========
|
|
Segment 7 (11/14/89):
|
|
(Essentially ALL of Segment 7 has been cut.)
|
|
|
|
[CUT:]
|
|
Knapp:
|
|
Just over this ridge [showing a photo of Area 51], tucked inside
|
|
the test tubes of a hidden government base, the secrets of the
|
|
universe may be unfolding. The area is designated S-4, and according
|
|
to one man who claims to have worked there, S-4 harbors scientific
|
|
achievements that would astonish our deepest thinkers. It is
|
|
technology that, if it exists, could change the world, but is allegedly
|
|
bottled up by military minds.
|
|
|
|
[CUT:]
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
It's not an overall government project. It's not something that
|
|
Congress appropriates money for. Two billion is for this, 15
|
|
billion for flying saucers, eight billion for Star Wars: it doesn't
|
|
go like that. I don't believe that they have any knowledge of it at
|
|
all.
|
|
|
|
[CUT:]
|
|
Knapp:
|
|
The technology that Bob Lazar says he saw extends far beyond flying
|
|
saucers. An anti-matter reactor allows the spaceships to produce their
|
|
own gravitational fields, he says. Such a technology, if real, would
|
|
answer UFO skeptics who argue that aliens could never visit Earth
|
|
because the distances between worlds are too great, even at the speed
|
|
of light.
|
|
|
|
[CUT:]
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Gravity distorts time and space. Just like if you had a water bed and
|
|
put a bowling ball in the middle. It warps it down like that --
|
|
that's exactly what happens to space. Imagining that you were in a
|
|
spacecraft that could exert a tremendous gravitational field by itself,
|
|
you could sit on any particular place and turn on the gravity generator
|
|
and actually warp space and time, and fold it. By shutting that off,
|
|
you'd click back and you'd be a tremendous distance from where you
|
|
were, but time would not have even moved because you essentially shut
|
|
it off. I mean it is so far fetched, people -- it's difficult for
|
|
people to grasp, and as stubborn as the scientific community is,
|
|
they'll never buy it. But this is, in fact, that's just what happens.
|
|
|
|
[CUT:]
|
|
Knapp:
|
|
Actually, Lazar's explanation is very close to mainstream scientific
|
|
thought and can be traced directly to Einstein. The difference is,
|
|
scientists regard it as theory only. There is much that science still
|
|
doesn't know.
|
|
|
|
[CUT:]
|
|
Dale Etheridge (Scientist):
|
|
There are people who say that our main problem with that is we don't
|
|
know what gravity is. It's this magical force that acts at a
|
|
distance. We can describe how it behaves -- that's what the law
|
|
of gravity is -- it's just a description of how it behaves. But
|
|
it says nothing about what gravity really is.
|
|
|
|
[CUT:]
|
|
Knapp:
|
|
We'll use Etheridge as our barometer of scientific thought. He
|
|
says we cannot produce gravity, that there's no such thing as a
|
|
working anti-matter reactor, and that we have yet to figure out a way
|
|
to get around the speed of light. He also concedes, though, such
|
|
things are possible.
|
|
|
|
[CUT:]
|
|
Etheridge:
|
|
Yeah. And really we don't know what's possible, as there could be
|
|
other civilizations out there -- several hundred years or so, a
|
|
thousand years, even a million years ahead of us -- that have found
|
|
a way to circumvent this. We have no way of knowing for sure.
|
|
|
|
[CUT:]
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Well, the thing is, when you harness gravity, you harness everything.
|
|
It's the missing piece in physics right now. We really know very
|
|
little about gravity.
|
|
|
|
[CUT:]
|
|
Knapp:
|
|
At least that's the way it used to be. Lazar says the technology to
|
|
harness gravity not only exists but is being tested at S-4. And if
|
|
such technology is beyond human capabilities, it must have come from
|
|
someplace else. It's more than conjecture, he says, because he also
|
|
saw an element that cannot be found on the periodic chart. The element,
|
|
called 115, can be stored in lead casings much like this one
|
|
[showing a lead circular container]. Lazar says the government has
|
|
500 pounds of it, and it cannot be made on Earth.
|
|
|
|
[CUT:]
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
It would be almost impossible; well, it is impossible to synthesize
|
|
an element that heavy here on Earth.
|
|
|
|
[CUT:]
|
|
Knapp:
|
|
At least right now.
|
|
|
|
<Continued Next message...>
|
|
|
|
|
|
SEEN-BY: 19/19 101/667 104/422 428 114/37 115/876 120/80 132/113
|
|
SEEN-BY: 133/107 138/111 140/32 141/790 147/66 231/40 252/18
|
|
SEEN-BY: 265/12 268/102 283/630 304/1 3 363/17 371/10 382/33
|
|
SEEN-BY: 1063/304 3607/20 30163/3 22 150 401
|
|
|
|
|
|
330/417 07 Dec 89 17:18:00
|
|
From: Robert Klinn
|
|
To: Robert Klinn
|
|
Subj: UFOs: The Best Evidence Altered?
|
|
Attr:
|
|
------------------------------------------------
|
|
Part 4
|
|
<...Continued from previous message>
|
|
[CUT:]
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
I don't think that you can ever synthesize it. The amount
|
|
of -- You essentially have to assemble it by bombarding it with
|
|
protons; if atom by atom, it would take an infinite amount of power
|
|
and an infinite amount of time. The substance has to come from a
|
|
place where super-heavy elements could have been produced naturally.
|
|
|
|
[CUT:]
|
|
Knapp:
|
|
And what sort of place is that?
|
|
|
|
[CUT:]
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Next to a much larger sun where there would be greater mass.
|
|
Maybe a binary star system -- a super-nova -- somewhere where there is
|
|
just a bigger release of energy to synthesize these things naturally.
|
|
It has to be a naturally occurring element.
|
|
|
|
[CUT:]
|
|
Knapp:
|
|
115 is the fuel for the anti-matter reactors, he says. By bombarding
|
|
115, anti-matter is produced. A kilo of anti-matter could produce the
|
|
energy equivalent of 46 ten-megaton hydrogen bombs, and comparing the
|
|
energy potential of anti-matter to, say, the Hoover Dam, would be
|
|
like comparing planets to grains of sand. 115 could also make one
|
|
heck of a bomb.
|
|
|
|
[CUT:]
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
We're talking about hundreds and hundreds of megatons off a small
|
|
piece of it. It sounds incredible, but total conversion of matter
|
|
to energy would release that amount of power. And it isn't that
|
|
difficult to take -- get the energy out of it. So it's not something
|
|
you'd ever want to fall into anyone's hands.
|
|
|
|
[CUT:]
|
|
Knapp:
|
|
The dangers associated with 115 and anti-matter may be the reason
|
|
Lazar was hired to work at S-4. There was an accident, he says,
|
|
back in April 1987, an accident that was passed off as an unannounced
|
|
nuclear test.
|
|
|
|
[CUT:]
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Some people got killed. I was told flat out I was one of the people
|
|
that were to replace these guys.
|
|
|
|
[CUT:]
|
|
Knapp:
|
|
Is this why the government might be keeping the whole matter a
|
|
secret? Because of the military potential of alien technology?
|
|
Lazar says he believes the Soviet Union was once part of our
|
|
research on the flying disks, but that the U.S. kicked the Soviets
|
|
out after making some sort of discovery. He also believes the
|
|
program at S-4 is operated with funds allocated to Star Wars research,
|
|
but says he can't prove it. Some UFO researchers suspect the
|
|
government is test flying alien craft so that it can one day master
|
|
the technology and claim it was made in the good old U.S.A., thus
|
|
obscuring the possibility of alien visitations.
|
|
|
|
[CUT:]
|
|
Stanton T. Friedman:
|
|
I think they have the duty to inform us. At least to the bare bones
|
|
of what's going on. I don't want technological stuff put out on the
|
|
table. I mean, I worked on classified projects for 15 years, and
|
|
I don't think we need another weapon's delivery system. But I
|
|
think the government does have the responsibility to release information
|
|
that, indeed, the planet is being visited. Probably it should be done
|
|
in conjunction with the Soviets.
|
|
|
|
[CUT:]
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
I don't think that it will get to that level. They're not going to have
|
|
a fleet of them and fly them around, and I don't think you need to do
|
|
that. If you're looking at them from a weapons point of view, you're
|
|
looking at an incredibly powerful device. You only need one that
|
|
operates. You don't ever need to come public with it. You may want to
|
|
learn more about it should it ever break which is -- might be -- what
|
|
they're doing.
|
|
|
|
[CUT:]
|
|
Knapp:
|
|
They've got one --
|
|
|
|
[CUT:]
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
-- Oh, they've got a few. Yeah.
|
|
|
|
[CUT:]
|
|
Lazar is the first to admit that his story is tough to swallow.
|
|
He submitted to polygraph exams, has opened up sensitive parts of
|
|
his personal life, and fully expects to be ridiculed or perhaps
|
|
punished for his revelations.
|
|
[END CUT.]
|
|
_______
|
|
|
|
[The hypnotherapy discussion of Segment 7 further below has been
|
|
totally replaced by the following short summary included in the
|
|
broadcast of 11/25/89. Note that reference to a mind-control technique
|
|
by Lazar's U.S. government employers has been excised.]
|
|
|
|
Knapp:
|
|
Lazar wanted to recall further details from reports he says he read
|
|
at S-4, so he went to Layne Keck, a licensed and experienced
|
|
hypnotherapist. Keck makes no exaggerated claims about the powers
|
|
of hypnosis, but he did help dredge up some specifics from the
|
|
reports. He is confident about that, that Lazar is not making this up.
|
|
|
|
Keck:
|
|
His subconscious mind believes TOTALLY all of these things.
|
|
|
|
<Continued next message....>
|
|
|
|
|
|
SEEN-BY: 19/19 101/667 104/422 428 114/37 115/876 120/80 132/113
|
|
SEEN-BY: 133/107 138/111 140/32 141/790 147/66 231/40 252/18
|
|
SEEN-BY: 265/12 268/102 283/630 304/1 3 363/17 371/10 382/33
|
|
SEEN-BY: 1063/304 3607/20 30163/3 22 150 401
|
|
|
|
|
|
331/417 07 Dec 89 17:19:00
|
|
From: Robert Klinn
|
|
To: Robert Klinn
|
|
Subj: UFOs: The Best Evidence Altered?
|
|
Attr:
|
|
------------------------------------------------
|
|
Part 5 Conclusion
|
|
<....Continued from previous message>
|
|
===================
|
|
|
|
[CUT:]
|
|
Knapp:
|
|
His desire to explain what really happened at S-4 took him to Layne
|
|
Keck, a licensed, experienced hypnotherapist who quietly and
|
|
privately tried to help Lazar remember details of the many briefing
|
|
papers he says he read.
|
|
|
|
[CUT:]
|
|
Keck:
|
|
I have no clue as to what we were getting to, and he started saying
|
|
that there were pictures of what I thought was DESKS on the wall.
|
|
Well as it turned out, it was DISKS that he was referring to. And
|
|
at that moment I realized we were into something that was pretty heavy.
|
|
|
|
[CUT:]
|
|
Knapp:
|
|
Keck does not exaggerate his claims for hypnosis. He regards it
|
|
as a useful tool for uncovering some lost memories. He says
|
|
people are quite capable of lying under hypnosis but says the technique
|
|
can be of help in determining truth. What's his opinion of Lazar's
|
|
truthfulness?
|
|
|
|
[CUT:]
|
|
Keck:
|
|
It tells me that his subconscious mind believes totally all of
|
|
these things.
|
|
|
|
[CUT:]
|
|
Lazar has long suspected that his government employers used some
|
|
sort of mind-control technique to prevent him from disclosing too
|
|
much about S-4. While he says he has vivid conscious memories of
|
|
the saucers and other technology, there were other memories that even
|
|
now remained locked, which is why he sought out Keck in the first place.
|
|
Keck is convinced that someone really did mess with Lazar's head.
|
|
|
|
[CUT:]
|
|
Keck:
|
|
Also they used tremendous fear in threatening those in his environment
|
|
if he did bring this information forth. Also, it appears that maybe
|
|
there were some chemicals used.
|
|
|
|
[CUT:]
|
|
Lazar:
|
|
Nah, I'm not going to change anyone's mind. That's not my intention.
|
|
I'm just relaying the experience -- the job that I went through.
|
|
It is a fantastic thing. It's a fantastic story. I can't take people
|
|
there to show them what was going on, and you know, I don't expect
|
|
anyone to believe it.
|
|
|
|
[CUT:]
|
|
Knapp:
|
|
What if he is right? What if aliens are here? How would this change
|
|
our view of the world? Our most fundamental beliefs? Religion?
|
|
We'll know more on that tomorrow.
|
|
[END CUT.]
|
|
_______
|
|
|
|
Also MISSING from the 11/25/89 version are Knapp's opinions and
|
|
comments before and after most of the nine previously broadcast segments.
|
|
|
|
His extended comments at the end of the ninth segment are particularly
|
|
bold. He says: "What we have learned" is that "the Government has
|
|
lied" and "has discredited UFO witnesses."
|
|
|
|
Knapp suggests that any future Congessional UFO inquiry must be "without
|
|
ties to the CIA" or other intelligence agencies.
|
|
|
|
Then turning from a co-anchor and looking into the camera, he seems
|
|
to speak to particular individuals:
|
|
|
|
"There are people probably watching right now. . . who know a lot
|
|
about this subject." And he asks them to call him.
|
|
|
|
Knapp ends the ninth segment by assuring his viewers that "the
|
|
investigation will continue."
|
|
|
|
**********************************************
|
|
* THE U.F.O. BBS - http://www.ufobbs.com/ufo *
|
|
********************************************** |