textfiles/sex/EROTICA/L/lies.txt

Fm: * Rusty * 75256,627
To: All

Hi!

       I was reading a review of Marilyn Hamel's book "Sex Etiquette"
[Delacorte, 1984] and she warns about the lies men tell in order to get women
into bed. Most are typical "singles bar" lines. Here they are:

1) You're the prettiest lady I've seen all night. Are you a model?

2) I hate macho men who can't treat a woman as a human being.

3) I don't want you to think I just fall into bed with every woman.

4) I'm really getting fed up with the singles scene. I want a woman I can
settle down with.

5) Technically I'm still married, but we're not working at it.

6) I havn't had sex in six months, women just don't seem to warm up to me.

7) I have this great Mozart collection, would you like to come back to my place
and hear it?

8) Can I order us a bottle of champagne? I just made a killing on the
SuperBowl.

9) I'm not into one night stands. I only sleep with a woman if I want to see
her again.

10) Can I come in for a moment? I have to use the phone.

   Now: What do you think of these "lies"? Is the author unfairly tarring all
men by suggesting that these are invariably lies? And, how would women
respond to these statements and questions?

   Oh...one other question...what would you add to or delete from the list?

   Cheers!
   Rusty

Fm: * Diane * 75236,1077
To: * Rusty * 75256,627 (X)

Dear Rusty,

If *I* thought the guy was a great guy..and from my own perceptions I was
convinced that he was a straight shooter, I would believe any of those "lies".

If the guy, in my opinion, were a jerk or a nerd......NOTHING he could hand out
in the way of a line would convince me he was ok.

It all boils down to: how smart is the woman about men, and how bad does she
want to get laid?

Trusting hugs, Diane

Fm: * Dave S. * 72227,2646
To: * Diane * 75236,1077 (X)

Diane,

Oh so ray Jose'!!!

As we used to say in the bullpen,......

The girls you hardly notice

Are the ones you have to watch,

She's Pleasant and she's Friendly

While she's looking at your crotch!!!

dave

Fm: * Dave S. * 72227,2646
To: * Dave S. * 72227,2646 (X)

BTW, Those are lyrics from Crosby Stills and Nash.

must give credit where its due.

dave

Fm: * Diane * 75236,1077
To: * Dave S. * 72227,2646 (X)

Dear Debonair Dave,
A guy once told me that he is made VERY uncomfortable by women who look at his
crotch in an appraising sort of way...for him, it is a real turnoff.

Yet, as a woman, I have had my breasts stared at frequently, even during casual
conversations with men, even during BUSINESS discussions.

Now....can YOU tell me in your very debonair way, what is the DIFFERENCE?
Why is it okay for men to stare....but some men feel threatened by a woman
looking THEM over?

(I've never hung out in a PUB before..but if I had known it would be this much
fun I would have started years ago.....hmmm....maybe I should do this in real
life too!!! (grabbing coat...car keys...house keys.........SLAM!))

Huggs, Diane

Fm: * Dave S. * 72227,2646
To: * Diane * 75236,1077 (X)

Dear Debutante Diane,

I never said anything about feeling uncomfortable about women staring at my
crotch. After all, I wore tight doubleknit pants for 18 years, (what do you
think the women are looking at??????)

If your friend is uncomfortable with it then it is a matter of "if you can't
stand the heat, get out of the kitchen!!"

I'll admit it would be hard staring at a guy's crotch in a business meeting
where we are generally seated, but it might liven things up a bit!! (Diane what
*ARE* you doing under the table?????)

One thing that catcher's taught me (catcher's are inevidiably women chaser's)
is to return a stare with a stare, and the longer it is held, the better the
sex. No I haven't put this to use lately, but it used to work!!!!!

dd


Fm: * Diane * 75236,1077
To: * Dave S. * 72227,2646 (X)

Dave...I've heard that about the stare before...but I always chicken out and
look away.What does that tell you about me?
Sb: #4229-#Men's Lies: Women Wise?
Fm: * Dave S. * 72227,2646
To: * Diane * 75236,1077 (X)

Diane,

You're willing but more cautious. It takes a little more to win you over, but
once you do..... OH BOY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You'll make it worthwhile!

dave

Fm: * Diane * 75236,1077
To: * Dave S. * 72227,2646 (X)

Oh Dave.........is that the message I am giving?????


(BLUSH!!)

I will not even *attempt* a stare down anymore!

Embarrassed hugs, Diane

Fm: * Rusty * 75256,627
To: * Diane * 75236,1077 (X)

Hi Diane!

    Gee, I have this great collection of MS.DOS software! Would you like to
come back to my place and run some programs? (wink wink)

    On a more serious note, how do you make that assessment so quickly? Is
there some secret signal that men convey to women about whether they are jerks
or nerds? Is it the plastic pocket protector? In my days in engineering
school we ALL wore plastic pocket protectors and had slide rules hanging from
our belts. (those were the days when we programmed with punched cards...on a
state-of-the-art IBM 360).

    Cheers!
    Rusty

Fm: * Diane * 75236,1077
To: * Rusty * 75256,627 (X)

HI Rusty!

Hmmmmmm.......you have hi-tech etchings!
No, there is no SECRET signal that a guy is a jerk or a nerd. It is usually
pretty evident....and the plastic pocket protector, while not particulary
attractive (especially shoved into a polyester pocket!) would not be MY
criteria. If a guy is a jerk or a nerd, he would be a person who was not
intereted in ME, in my responses, or in my comfort in the situation. That would
be the first and most obvious reaction I would get. To paraphrase, a nerd is a
nerd is a nerd.

How DO other women determine the relative "nerdness" of a guy? I just go by my
perceptions and my intuitions. I have been known to be wrong. Sigh.

Huggs, Diane

Fm: * Rusty * 75256,627
To: * Diane * 75236,1077 (X)

Hi Diane!

        Remember when Dristan used to used to use the "nasograph" in the TV
commercials? All it looked like was a kid's geometry protractor.

       How about we invent the "nerdometer"? There must be some
quasiscientific way of measuring the proclivity of a given man to exhibit nerd
tendancies.

       Cheers!
        Rusty

Fm: * Diane * 75236,1077
To: * Rusty * 75256,627 (X)

Well..the first thing that jumps into my mind..is white socks... but I am hard
pressed to come up with the instrmentation. Rusty..you are the engineer
here.....the high tech wiz...YOU invent the nerdograph...and I will program it!

Be sure to include things like length of pants.....floods are always indicative
of a nerd. Do you think they wear them short so you can` see their white socks
better?

Is a nerd ALWAYS visible from his exterior? Or can a guy look like an absolute
PEACH and really be a nerd?

Huggs, Diane

Fm: * Al T. * 76414,233
To: * Diane * 75236,1077 (X)

Diane:

        I know you and Rusty believe that the Nerdograph is a new invention,
conceived in the Pub while looking through the dregs of a brew or two, but I
can assure you that the Nerdometer was invented in Northern California several
years ago by some brilliant analysts. The instrument was found to be useless
after several months on the market due to some nerd who, while eating Cheerios
for breakfast, hacked the system and published several ways to beat the device.

        'ographs and 'ometers have gone the way of software - easily replicated
and defeated. The best system yet in use is still the eyeball test.

        Informationally yours,
                Al


Fm: * Rusty * 75256,627
To: * Diane * 75236,1077 (X)

Hi diane!

   Ok...let me turn the tables for a moment. How many men with white sox,
plastic pocket protectors and (shudder) polyester sport jackets...get short
shrift because the look like nerds? Yet...they are very caring, compassionate,
loving folks. They just get taken to task because of the way they dress.

   How many men are rejected unfairly as a result?

   Cheers
   rusty

Fm: * Diane * 75236,1077
To: * Rusty * 75256,627 (X)

Rusty.......probably uncounted thousands...and isn't that a waste?

And....er...I have *never* seen anyone whose socks were so white as yours.

And.....I love that little logo on your plastic pocket protector.

And I can tell from here that you are a very caring and considerate
person.....so.....do I categorize you as a nerd?



Nope.

Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder.

And while the stuff about your socks and your plastic pocket protector isn't
true in reality....your characteristics come shining through here. So...if you
DID wear white socks...would it really matter?

Nope.

Fm: * Rusty * 75256,627
To: * Diane * 75236,1077 (X)

Hi Diane!

   Err...what about plastic lawn flamingos? And...club soda instead of
Perrier? And...beat up Chevy's. Do we have a category for near-nerds?

   Cheers!
   Rusty

Fm: * Diane * 75236,1077
To: * Rusty * 75256,627 (X)

HI Rusty!

I consider people who put out lawn flamingos....and serve soda instead of
Perrier..and drive old Chevies to be rugged individualists and therefore, very
far from nerddom!

What do you think Rusty?

Huggs, Diane

P. S. - How do you tell a female nerd?
Does she wear something, or do something to distingish herself from her more
soignee sisters?


Fm: * Rusty * 75256,627
To: * Diane * 75236,1077 (X)

Hi Diane!

   I happen to agree completely with your assessment of rugged individuals!

   Hmmm...female nerds...or "nerdettes" as they are called exhibit the
following tendancies: They wear cheap fake fur jackets and think they are
fasionable, change gentlemen friends quickly based upon material assessments,
and are freqently referred to as "airheads"

   Clear up your question??
   Cheers!
   Rusty

Fm: * Dave S. * 72227,2646
To: * Diane * 75236,1077 (X)

Huh?? Er could you repeat that Diane, I was staring at your breasts!!!

<best nerd impression on the spur of the moment>

nldd (no longer debonair dave>



Fm: * Cheryl * 72167,1517
To: * Rusty * 75256,627 (X)

Dear Rusty,

Having never been into the single bar scene, I can only tell you what I feel
about the one liners!

First of all, most of them are quite unbelieveable! I would never fall for
one, unless I was desperate for some companionship for an evening.....realizing
that it was a one night stand with no commitments on his part. But then, I
don't think I would find myself in that position.

Number 9 took the cake! I would be splitting my sides with laughter if a man
ever said that to me....grin. I can't see how it could get more two-sided than
it all ready is! Talk about saying one thing and meaning another..whew!

Cheryl

Fm: * Rusty * 75256,627
To: * Cheryl * 72167,1517 (X)

Hi Cheryl!

   You bring up an interesting point about the "gullibility" factor. Do you
think some women actually want to believe the lies? And, are you convinced
they are *all* lies?

   One of my personal favorites has been "If some young lady can get some sort
of pleasure out of this humble body, who am I to stand in her way?"

   Is that one any better?

   Cheers!
   Rusty

Fm: * Cheryl * 72167,1517
To: * Rusty * 75256,627 (X)

Dear Rusty,

Hmmmmm......how can you convince someone that they are telling a lie if they
*REALLY* believe what they are saying? Don't some men believe that women
desire their bodies and that is all these women want? <Just wondering>

But, I also think some women want to be gullible at times. It is nice to
believe a fairy tale. If some man gives them a line, well, it is up to them
how gullible they want to be. I personnally don't care for gullible types when
it comes to lines about sex. A straight forward approach can be quite crude,
but honest! Since, I don't know about being "picked" up....does honesty pay?

I do like the one you mentioned, I had to chuckle at it......<still grinning>

Cheryl


Fm: * Rusty * 75256,627
To: * Cheryl * 72167,1517 (X)

Hi Cheryl!

   Dave S. just left a very similar message...the idea being that women who
allow themselves to believe the lies are perhaps trying to act out a fairly
ttale.

   (ahem)...I am used to women wanting my body...so it is not a big problem.
(if you believe that, can I show you some Florida vacation land?)

   Are there not times that both men and women would like to be able to believe
some of the lies? Do you think that some folks *like* to be gullible?

   Cheers!
   Rusty

Fm: * Cheryl * 72167,1517
To: * Rusty * 75256,627 (X)

Dear Rusty,

Yes, there are times when men and women would like to believe those types of
lies. Why? Well, it probably makes them feel good that they are attractive to
the other (same, depending if one is gay) sex. Let's face it when you notice
someone looking at you (that you also find attractive) it feels good. So, why
wouldn't a "come on" line stroke the ego and make one feel good?

I think there are times when we want to be gullible and times when we don't. I
have seen naturally gullible people (my sister is slightly that way), but this
would have to be trying at times for the person. I would not want to be that
way *all* the time! <grin> But, sometimes it is nice to let down our common
sense side of our mind and be gullible!

Cheryl



Fm: * Rusty * 75256,627
To: * Cheryl * 72167,1517 (X)

Hi Cheryl!

  Ah yes! The ego! Of course it makes us feel good to know that other people
find us to be attractive. Are the times that we like to be gullible the times
that we need positive reinforcement of our "worthiness"?

  When we are a little down and feeling unloved it can be a very pleasant
experience!

  Err...would your gullible sister like to meet me? (just kidding)

  Cheers!
  Rusty

Fm: * Cheryl * 72167,1517
To: * Rusty * 75256,627 (X)

Dear Rusty,

Well, she is not your type, so I won't make a date! (grin)

I don't think being gullible necessarily means that we need positive
reinforcement of our own "worthiness". But, it is just nice to have the ego
stroked every now and then (whether the comment is pertaining to sex or doing a
good job at work).

Cheryl


Fm: * Rusty * 75256,627
To: * Cheryl * 72167,1517

Hi Cheryl!

   Hmmm...Have you heard of the "One Minute Manager"? It deals with giving one
minute pep talks or dealing with performance problems in little "one minute"
batches.

   I suppose the "One Minute Lover" has a rather unfortunate connotation!

   Cheers!
   Rusty


Fm: * Diane * 75236,1077
To: * Rusty * 75256,627 (X)

HI Rusty!

sure! I am interested in looking at your brochures of Florida vacation land!

(hehehe)

Huggs, Diane

Fm: * Dave S. * 72227,2646
To: * Rusty * 75256,627 (X)

Rusty,

D*MN....

Those wer 10 of my best lines!!! have you been peeking at my book????

<back to drawing board>

dave

Fm: * Rusty * 75256,627
To: * Dave S. * 72227,2646 (X)

Hi Dave!

   Ok Ok...here are some more I wrote just for you:

1) Honest, it's only a cold sore.

2) Have you ever slept with a legend before?

3) I wish I could find a woman who wants me because of my personality, not
     just because I am such a great lover.

   Use them and report back with your success rate!

   Cheers!
   Rusty



Fm: * Dave S. * 72227,2646
To: * Rusty * 75256,627 (X)

Rusty,

Sorry, can't use #1, I'm just not right for it, but I'll try the others.

dave


Fm: * Diane * 75236,1077
To: * Rusty * 75256,627 (X)

Female response to recent listing of lies for Rusty and Dave:
1. I thought cold soles usually occured on the lips? Where is my coat?
2. (if this guy has to rely on his reputation to *sell* me..he must be over the
hill....or over rated) Where did you say my coat was?
3. (what personality????) Oh...I see my coat..I'll let myself out! Forget that
drink!! G'nite!!

Huggs, Diane



Fm: * Rusty * 75256,627
To: * Diane * 75236,1077 (X)

Hi Diane!

  Yes, but you are a very wise woman. There are many who are not as fortunate
as you!

  These women are the prey of "lounge lizards" who will tell these women what
they are desperate to hear.

  (I know...not another *lizard* story!)

   Cheers!
   Rusty

Fm: * Dave S. * 72227,2646
To: * Rusty * 75256,627 (X)

Rusty,

Just who is the lizard in these situations? The guy who *knows* what he is
after and how to go about getting it. Or the women who also knows what she
wants and will put up with *ANYTHING* to get it?

Either one could be avoiding the truth. Either one could be hurt if one side
is telling the truth and the other is not.

Morale of the story, stay away from lounges for picking up women. Lounges are
place to meet and talk,like Rusty's Pub!

dave

Fm: * Rusty * 75256,627
To: * Dave S. * 72227,2646 (X)

Hi Dave!

   Good point! I guess there are male lizards and there are female lizards.
Maybe that is how lizards propagate!

   The idea of either person being hurt is a very going point! Maybe that is
why so many of us avoid singles bars?

   Cheers!
   Rusty

Fm: * Dave S. * 72227,2646
To: * Rusty * 75256,627 (X)

Rusty,

I *KNOW* that is the reason *I* avoid them.

<plus who has the self-confidence to put up with the kinds of facades you must
put up and maintain in those places anymore?>

dave

Fm: * Rusty * 75256,627
To: * Dave S. * 72227,2646 (X)

Hi Dave!

   Awww...c'mon Dave! You sure you're not just getting old???

   Cheers!
   Rusty

Fm: * Dave S. * 72227,2646
To: * Rusty * 75256,627

Rusty,

I must admit that when I hear what comes out of the mouths of these people in
the bars lately, I do feel old!! I also feel old when the new mail girl passes
by and reminds me of my friends daughters!!!!<sigh>

However, none of this will stop me from chasing Kellie!!!! (It may prevent me
from remembring what to do with her when I catch her however!)

dave

Fm: * Diane * 75236,1077
To: * Rusty * 75256,627 (X)

HI Rusty!....
This is what I have decided about this thread of messages:

If the lizard tells the chick all those lies..............

and if the chick believes them.............................

They deserve each other and no one is hurt.

The ultimate lizard story.

Huggs, Diane

Fm: * Rusty * 75256,627
To: * Diane * 75236,1077 (X)

Hi Diane!

   in other words...if I understand you correctly...

   If two jerks fine each other...then that clears the competition of two
jerks...making it easier for us nice people to find each other.

   Is that what you mean?

   cheers!
   Rusty

Fm: * Diane * 75236,1077
To: * Rusty * 75256,627 (X)

HI Rusty!

Well...I would probably NEVER phrase it that way.....because I am a very kind
person!!

I am just saying that when one with needs meets another willing to fill those
needs...(and the reverse as well)...then HOW they go about it is between the
two of them..and is really no one else's business.

Isn't that a much kinder way to phrase that? No one but *us* need know whether
they are jerks or not!

Huggs, Diane

Fm: * Rusty * 75256,627
To: * Diane * 75236,1077 (X)

Hi Diane!

   Yes it is kinder, but it does not answer the question. How many
relationships wind up with people who really deserve each other?

   I suspect there is a grave imbalance!

   Cheers!
   Rusty

Fm: * Anne * 76257,1111
To: * Rusty * 75256,627 (X)

Dear Rusty, I probably shouldn't even consider commenting, as I've never set
foot in a singles bar (or any other kind 'cept your pub!), and have never been
"picked up". But women DO talk, and you might be surprised how often I've
heard my women friends laugh at guys who tried lies like that on them! The one
I liked best was used on TWO of my friends by the same guy, a week apart. The
line was, "I'm sorry to be rude, but I couldn't help but overhear part of your
conversation. You have a WONDERFUL voice... I hear Southern girls are special
people...can we get acquainted?" The reason both women thought it was
particularly funny is that, at a bar in Dallas, he picked one girl from Ohio
and another from Canada! Seems to me, tho, that what happened to Dustin Hoffman
in Tootsie when as Tootsie Jessica Lange told him she wished a man would just
be honest and say he'd like to go to bed with her -- and the man tried it, and
got a drink thrown in his face -- would be VERY likely to happen in real life.
"You can't tell an important truth to a stranger", said the American Pschiatric
Association after a conference on falsehoods a few years back, and even St.
Thomas Aquinas said that "Lies are oft the balm which spares the heart." I
wouldn't say all men lie, but I would say that a lot of what passes for
flirtation in today's world might have been called "creative writing" in my
college truth-in-advertising classes! <hugs> Anne

Fm: * Rusty * 75256,627
To: * Anne * 76257,1111 (X)

Hi Anne!

   I suppose that the lies that work never get noticed because women don't
realize they're being told a lie?

   You mentioned that the APA said "You can't tell an important truth to a
stranger." Could you elaborate on that? It sounds interesting.

   Cheers!
   Rusty

Fm: * Anne * 76257,1111
To: * Rusty * 75256,627 (X)

Dear Rusty: If you're looking for an explanation of the gobbeldygook shrinks
hand out... you've got the wrong girl, hon! I don't profess to understand WHY
they said you can't tell an important truth to a stranger...or what they meant
by that. But I once wrote a magazine article on lying ("The Check's in the
Mail...and other tall tales"), and ran across the minutes of a conference
called "The Truth and its Limitations" which was sponsored by the APA. This
bit of pithy truism was found in the conference minutes. <hugs> Anne

Fm: * Rusty * 75256,627
To: * Anne * 76257,1111 (X)

Hi Anne!

  What a great title for an article about lying! Reminds me of the three
great lies (clean version)...

   1) the check is in the mail

   2) one size fits all

   3) Hi! I'm from the government and I'm here to help you.

   cheers!
   Rusty

Fm: * Dave S. * 72227,2646
To: * Diane * 75236,1077

Diane,

Somehow, I just don't believe you. You may just switch to the behind, cause
that way you won't get caught!!!!!

higgers dd


Fm: * Dave S. * 72227,2646
To: * Al T. * 76414,233

But one question Al, What do you do with the eyeball of a nerd once you get
one? dave


Fm: * Diane * 75236,1077
To: * Rusty * 75256,627 (X)

HI Rusty!

I consider people who put out lawn flamingos....and serve soda instead of
Perrier..and drive old Chevies to be rugged individualists and therefore, very
far from nerddom!

What do you think Rusty?

Huggs, Diane

P. S. - How do you tell a female nerd?
Does she wear something, or do something to distingish herself from her more
soignee sisters?

Fm: * Rusty * 75256,627
To: * Diane * 75236,1077 (X)

Hi Diane!

   I happen to agree completely with your assessment of rugged individuals!

   Hmmm...female nerds...or "nerdettes" as they are called exhibit the
following tendancies: They wear cheap fake fur jackets and think they are
fasionable, change gentlemen friends quickly based upon material assessments,
and are freqently referred to as "airheads"

   Clear up your question??
   Cheers!
   Rusty

Fm: * Dave S. * 72227,2646
To: * Rusty * 75256,627 (X)

Rusty,

Airheads are more commonly found under the cover rather than before. Which is
a unfortunate risk that one must take when taking up after a "crotch-watcher"
dave


Fm: * Rusty * 75256,627
To: * Dave S. * 72227,2646 (X)

Hi Dave!

   Hmmm....

   Are you sure that you can't spot them before? Or is your mind just not
functioning in a "filter" mode before you get under the covers with them?

   Cheers!
   rusty

Fm: * Dave S. * 72227,2646
To: * Rusty * 75256,627 (X)

BINGO!!! you caught me! Really until then, ..........

dave

Fm: * Rusty * 75256,627
To: * Rusty * 75256,627 (X)

Hi Dave!

   See!!!

   that's the problem. You're thinking with the "little head" when you should
be thinking with the "big head"!!!

   Cheers!
   Rusty

Fm: * Diane * 75236,1077
To: * Rusty * 75256,627 (X)

Yeah......Rusty..and thanks!! .......except for one thing!

Would either you or Dave (or preferably BOTH??)...define the term
airhead for me?

Cheers back!
Diane


Fm: * Rusty * 75256,627
To: * Diane * 75236,1077 (X)

Hi Diane!

   [looking in the Rusty Dictionary of Commonly Used Pub Words]

   ahah! here it is....
   airhead aer'-hed (n.) one who has air where brains ought to be.

   That settle it for you?

   Cheers!
   Rusty

Fm: * Dave S. * 72227,2646
To: * Diane * 75236,1077 (X)

Diane,

Somehow, I just don't believe you. You may just switch to the behind, cause
that way you won't get caught!!!!!

higgers dd


Fm: * Dave S. * 72227,2646
To: * Rusty * 75256,627 (X)

Rusty,

I must admit that when I hear what comes out of the mouths of these people in
the bars lately, I do feel old!! I also feel old when the new mail girl passes
by and reminds me of my friends daughters!!!!<sigh>

However, none of this will stop me from chasing Kellie!!!! (It may prevent me
from remembring what to do with her when I catch her however!)

dave


Fm: * Dave S. * 72227,2646
To: * Al T. * 76414,233 (X)

But one question Al, What do you do with the eyeball of a nerd once you get
one? dave


Fm: * Cheryl * 72167,1517
To: * Rusty * 75256,627 (X)

Dear Rusty,

Yep, I have heard of the "One Minute Manager". I have read it.

But the "One Minute Lover".....<grin>, you might have a best seller for someone
who is interested only in a "quickie"!

Cheryl

* Reply:
        4602

Fm: * Rusty * 75256,627
To: * Cheryl * 72167,1517 (X)

Hi Cheryl!

   Hmmm...are quickies actually that quick??

   Cheers!
   Rusty

* Reply:
        4736
* RR 4428 +

Fm: * Cheryl * 72167,1517
To: * Rusty * 75256,627 (X)

Dear Rusty,


  Only in the mind!


   Cheryl



Fm: * Danny Z. * 70307,504
To: * Rusty * 75256,627 (X)

Rusty, As one of the males who doesn't like macho characters, and tries to
treat women as humans, I am insulted by a woman who thinks that's a lie. Am I
supposed to lie and say that I *like* macho men to please her?! Some more of
that kind of skewed logic, and I'll really start treating women like they don't
know a good thing when they see it. I mean I'm obviously a good thing...<grin>
        --Danny Z.


Fm: * Rusty * 75256,627
To: * Danny Z. * 70307,504

Hi Danny!

  Not all women think it is a lie...just ask around here on HSX!

  These are "singles bar" lies...and not too many non-macho men turn up in
singles bars.

  Cheers!
  Rusty

Fm: * Danny Z. * 70307,504
To: * Diane * 75236,1077 (X)

Dear Diane,
        Sounds like you (and the rest of the responders so far) take things too
seriously: c' mmon, give the guys a break! They're just trying hard to be witty
and personal in an impersonal situation. Relax! Enjoy somebody giving away his
self-esteem and lying just to get your attention! That's the biggest compliment
you can get these days and still keep laughing!
        --Danny Z.

Fm: * Diane * 75236,1077
To: * Danny Z. * 70307,504

Here we go again, Danny! What makes you say that a man propositioning a woman
is an "impersonal" situation????

Fm: * Lana * 73147,3412
To: * Danny Z. * 70307,504

Dear Danny,

Well, maybe I'm strange, but the kind of man who gives away his self-esteem and
lies just to get my attention just doesn't appeal to me. I DON'T consider it a
compliment, either. I also don't think I take things too seriously. A man can
be witty and charming WITHOUT lying, don't you think? Or do you consider that
impossible?

      <hugs!>
          Lana

Fm: Eleanor G. 74216,3631
To: * Lana * 73147,3412 (X)

Dear Lana,

     Think of this as an infinite loop: YES! I AGREE!!!!!!

     I once had a somewhat extended sorta relationship with a man who
lied--constantly. Harmless things, really (I guess). Lies that made him (in
his eyes) appear more macho, more intelligent, more productive. Of course, I
got to the point where I believed absolutely nothing he said. I even doubted
that his mother was of a certain nationality until a friend of mine had talked
to her on the phone and mentioned the accent. <smile>
     I excused him on the ground that he was young and trying to impress me. 
<blush> (Okay. Okay. So he was 26 and I was 40. My excuse is that he was
soooooo adorable. <bowing head in shame at being weak>)

     After a while, I became fascinated with the lying. He lied about
absolutely everything! Not to deceive me about anything. He just seemed to
live in a world of lies. He lied about his softball record. He lied about his
education. He lied about what television programs he watched. He could have
been an artist, but unfortunately he didn't have the best memory in the world. 
<smile> I used to sit and look at him when we were out to dinner and listen to
his stories. They weren't very good and they frequently conflicted with
something he had told me previously. It was utterly amazing.

     Let me give you an example of his skill. (By the way, this dear, little
thing and I have known each other for about 8 years) He had told me many times
that he had majored in history in college (so had I). Now I never tried to pin
him down. Unfair, I thought. But one night I asked him, "Which came first: 
the Renaissance or the Dark Ages?" He looked puzzled and said, "It was the
Renaissance, wasn't it?" POOR BABY!

     I hate lying and I usually know. I think that most people lie
occasionally and occasionally should be forgiven, overlooked, forgotten,
ignored, etc. But to lie about feelings, goals, etc., in a relationship is not
a nice thing to do. That's the point where I say, "Hey! It's been fun! Let's
meet for lunch sometime. Bye!"

                                     Huggggs <truly!>
                                     Eleanor

Fm: * Greg * 76703,766
To: Eleanor G. 74216,3631 (X)

Eleanor:

I had a colege roommate, Pat, who was like that. Everything had to be made a
little more fascinating than it really was. Except Pat could remember his lies
and string them together rather well.

But I caught him. Pathological lying is a precursor, if not an outright
indication, of serious emotional instability. I still wonder if he was lying
about the jewelry store thing. <sigh>

And the Hell's Angel's thing. <sigh>

And the attempted robbery with battery thing. <sigh>

Definitely a strange character.

Cheers!
 Greg

Fm: Eleanor G. 74216,3631
To: * Greg * 76703,766 (X)

Dear Greg,

    But amusing, no? I was fascinated by the lies even if they were poorly
told. Now, you want some good lies? I can tell you some good lies. Not
pathologically, hon. Just deliberately, mischievously, daringly,
entertainingly! Ooooh yeah!

                                    Eleanor

Fm: Don F. 74136,654
To: * Diane * 75236,1077 (X)

Diane, I am forcing myself NOT to look up the whole thread that led to your
3-point answer. That way I can enjoy wondering if you really mean cold "soles
your mouth? Now a cold sole in the middle of back can lead to interesting
maneuvers. Or cold Dover Sole with mayo, candlelit, with tossed green salad,
etc. tres romantic! 'scuse my denseness this a.m. maybe I better go do a
little intense sole-searching. Huggers, Don.

Fm: * Diane * 75236,1077
To: Don F. 74136,654 (X)

Oh....shoot! Did I say cold soles? I must have been hungry!! Did I even mean to
say cold sores? Whatever was I talking about??? Now.....you have forced ME to
go back and reread the thread...sigh

And I usually only stick my OWN foot in my OWN mouth!!

Chuckling, Diane

Fm: Don F. 74136,654
To: * Diane * 75236,1077 (X)

DIANE (la huntress reincarnate, hmmmmmm?) Somehow, lady, you put me back into
early (incomplete!) classical studies mood. Second thing I absorbed in Latin
(first was, of course, that amor amas amatum stuff . . ) was agricola
agriclorum or some such . . why they thought hi-school kids gave a damn about
farmers . .?
However, having survived into adulthood (prolly because I ducked wisely out of
Latin . . and never tried Greek) then spent many years on the fringes of
agriculture right here in these U. States.
What, you may well ask, is the possible connection with your froodian slip? 
Aha . . . your 'umble scribe became SO very familiar with Foot-in-Mouth
disease. The hell with the cattle, have seen what it does to people. Me,
included. Dreadful. Awesome. Highly contagious. Primary symptom: pronounced
flush of facial (and sometimes other) areas. Only known cure: healthy
laughter.
ON THE OTHER HAND, once knew a lively lovely lass whom I could only describe as
"toe-licking-good!" Suppose the mal-ladies is related?

                                O Sole Meeow, Don F.

Fm: * Diane * 75236,1077
To: Don F. 74136,654 (X)

Perhaps you just sensed that I was an Iowa farm girl who also studied
Latin....so I can relate to agricola!!
But.....had gotten so used to other kinds of colas had almost forgotten my
Latin!

Toodles, Diane

Fm: Don F. 74136,654
To: * Diane * 75236,1077 (X)

<blush> . . . when I see the emphasis on colas, heave big sigh of relief that
you aren't thinking Spanish!!!!!
                        <grin> Don.

Fm: * Diane * 75236,1077
To: * Rusty * 75256,627 (X)

Oh..Rusty...I forgot one little thing here.....you know..about nerds?
umm....this is very difficult to bring up......but in my opinion... people who
like country music and neglect classical music may be hovering on the edge of
*nerddom*.

Or am I an iconoclast????

Attacking sacred cows huggs, Diane

Fm: * Rusty * 75256,627
To: * Diane * 75236,1077 (X)

Hi Diane!

  The anthropologists of the future will make the country music of today the
classics of tomorrow.

  Who could ever say that these lines are not classics:
  "Thank God and Greyhound You're Gone"
  "Don't Come Home a Drinking with Loving on Your Mind"
 "All the Girls Keep Getting Prettier at Closing Time"
 "If the Phone Don't Ring, You'll Know it's Me"
 "I don't Know Whether to Kill Myself or go Bowling"
 "How can Whisky only Six Years Old Whip a Man of 32"

  Tell me with a straight face that these are not classics Diane!

  Cheers!
  Good Neighbor Rusty

Fm: * Greg * 76703,766
To: * Rusty * 75256,627 (X)

You're right, Rusty:

Margaret Mead, rest her soul, would be compelled to agree with you. But why
stop with country?
 What about:
  "Show n Tell," Al Wilson, lead vocals; John Dean, backup vocals.
  "You're Breaking My Heart...So F*K YOU," Harry Nillson, lead; Judge William
   Kean, lead mallot.
  "Der Fuhrer," Ronny Reagan and the Raygunettes
 and who could forget,
  "It's My Party (and I'll cry if I want to)," Leslie Gore, lead; Ed Muskie,
  backup.

They weren't as MEMORABLE as your selection, but I just couldn't let these few
go unnoticed by posterity. !! SALUTE' !!

Cheers!
 Greg

Fm: * Rusty * 75256,627
To: * Greg * 76703,766 (X)

Hi Greg!

   You left out one of my favorites from the 50's....

   Dean Rusk and the Alternatives! (or was that early 60's?)

   Cheers!
   Rusty

Sb: #4611-#Men's Lies: Women Wise?
Fm: * Diane * 75236,1077
To: * Rusty * 75256,627 (X)

Dear Ner.......err...rather Rusty!

In 100 years....or 200....or 400.....come back and ask people if they have ever
heard of those songs.....if even *one* person has....I will give my fake bunny
fur jacket to charity!

Huggs from Bach, Beethoven, Handel, and me, Diane

Fm: * Rusty * 75256,627
To: * Diane * 75236,1077 (X)

Hi Diane!

   We already have the classics of only a few short decades ago!

   Who could ever forget Kenny Gardner with the Guy Lombardo Orchestra singing
such classics as:

   What did Robinson Crusoe do with Friday on a Saturday Night?
                and....
   When Bananna Skins are Falling, I'll Come Sliding Back to You!

   Classics! all of them!

   Cheers!
   Rusty

Fm: * Diane * 75236,1077
To: * Rusty * 75256,627 (X)

HI Rusty!

When you make the comment about people deserving each other... is that in a
positive way, or a negative way?

Do people really get what they deserve?.....or do they deserve what they get?

Wondering huggs, Diane

Fm: * Rusty * 75256,627
To: * Diane * 75236,1077 (X)

Hi Diane!

  I mean it in a negative way. There are lots of cases of people not getting
the kind of mate they deserve, but after all it was their choice!

  How's that for a generalization?

  Cheers!
  Rusty