366 lines
17 KiB
Plaintext
366 lines
17 KiB
Plaintext
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Results: Forgotten Realms Ratings
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=================================
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Compiled by: brooks@odie.ee.wits.ac.za (Goth)
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[Note: This file is one section of the ratings posted on December 22, 1994
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to rec.games.frp.dnd; it is included in order to make the publically
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available ratings as complete as possible.]
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==============
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Points Ratings
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==============
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In order for a product to appear on the points rating table, it must
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have at least five votes. Products are listed in points order, from
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highest to lowest.
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/-------------------------------------------------------\
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| - Key - |
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| Score = the product's average rating |
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| Low = the lowest rating anyone gave this product |
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| High = the highest rating anyone gave this product |
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| Voters = the number of people who rated the product |
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\-------------------------------------------------------/
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Note: Results for the 1st Edition Forgotten Realms modules are
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included in the results summary for the 1st Edition AD&D products.
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Product Score Low High Voters
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------- ----- --- ---- ------
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Aurora's Whole Realms Catalog 8.4 3 10 20
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FOR2: Drow of Underdark 8.1 3 10 17
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FR10: Old Empires 8.0 7 10 11
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Atlas of the Forgotten Realms World 7.9 5 10 14
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Forgotten Realms Adventures 7.8 5 10 21
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FR11: Dwarves Deep 7.7 6 9 8
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FR16: Shining South 7.7 7 8 7
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Elminster's Ecologies 7.6 4 10 9
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FR13: Anauroch 7.5 6 9 8
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FR1: Waterdeep & the North 7.4 3 8 11
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FR4: The Magister 7.3 3 10 12
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FR6: Dreams of the Red Wizards 7.3 4 10 10
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FR2: Moonshae 7.3 2 10 8
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FR5: The Savage Frontier 7.2 3 10 11
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FR14: Great Glacier 6.8 4 10 5
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MC3: Forgotten Realms 6.7 3 10 20
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Ruins of Undermountain 6.7 1 10 17
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MC11: Forgotten Realms II 6.6 3 10 18
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Menzoberranzan 6.5 2 10 14
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FR3: Empires of the South 6.5 4 8 11
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Forgotten Realms Boxed Set 6.4 2 10 32
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FOR1: Draconomicon 6.4 2 10 14
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New Edition Forgotten Realms Boxed Set 6.3 1 10 23
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FR9: Bloodstone Lands 6.2 2 9 11
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FR7: Hall of Heroes 5.9 3 9 10
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FR8: Cities of Mystery 5.6 4 7 5
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FR12: Horde Campaign 5.6 5 6 5
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Ruins of Undermountain II: The Deep Levels 3.3 0 7 12
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PG2: Player's Guide to the Forgotten Realms 2.9 0 6 10
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========
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Comments
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========
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This next bit is a selection of comments people have sent in. I've
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removed some remarks which were very similar, especially for products
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which provoked large quantities of comment and I've done some minor
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editing for grammar and spelling. Other than that, this is how they
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were sent in.
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Core Boxed Sets and General Comments
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------------------------------------
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The original boxed set is okay, I guess, (I haven't used it for
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campaigning yet), but I would have liked to see more of the
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interaction between countries, and the various wonders of Toril
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(rather than having to buy all the modules).
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I thoroughly enjoyed the New Edition FR Box... I personally thought
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it to be well thought out and pretty good value for money. I did find
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that the module they included wasn't that good. It wasn't well
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planned at all and a little confusing in places. Also, I was
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disappointed in the fact that their "God system" (Of gods being able
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to die) wasn't changed.
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Ed's world was really great when it started, but then they started
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doing things like the "Avatar" series and blew it all to hell. Having
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more than one person work in the world was a good idea, but
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consistency has suffered, and quality was allowed to become uneven.
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There are WAY too many 20th+ mages or spell-users running around, if
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you ask me -- it's becoming "munchkinworld." Too bad, because their
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base for this one was everything they could ask for.
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Most FR products are good. I do not particularly care for their
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adventure modules though.
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A general observation about the New Edition Campaign setting as well
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as other "re-releases" of second edition updates of FR material is
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that there has been a lot of reprinting. I bought both the New FR
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campaign setting and the City of Splendors boxed set expecting a
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fresh look at these places, but I was disappointed to see how much
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was simply reprinted from the first edition stuff, which I already
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had.
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I don't actually play in the Realms, but the accessories I own mesh
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seamlessly into any campaign, especially Aurora's Catalogue, and the
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Draconomicon.
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The setting in general is not worth wasting your time or $ on. Just
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about every homemade campaign setting I've seen is more interesting.
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If you really have to buy your world, buy Ravenloft.
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I have a lot of complaints about the Forgotten Realms. I list a
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number of these below. Many could be applied to any of TSR's game
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worlds.
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1) TSR originally announced FR as their "official AD&D world" and
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they stated that all future modules would be set there. It was on
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this basis that I got sucked into buying the original boxed set. Not
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only have they completely ignored this promise, but the few modules
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that they have produced for FR have been pathetic.
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2) Once a group invests in the boxed set, all they have is brief
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sketch of a huge continent. Fine, I said, I'm sure that TSR will
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bring out supplements to detail the various regions. By detail, I
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mean detail on a small enough scale so I can run a campaign. (eg.
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What are the names, descriptions and locations of the inns on the
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road between two close towns.) The first few supplements they seemed
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to be trying to do this... but these supplements are all out of
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fxxxing print! I don't give a damn what the main NPC's are in some
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distant land 3000 miles from Waterdeep. I need to know what's between
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Waterdeep and Silverymoon.
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3) The whole Avatar mess. I'm sure Ed Greenwood cringes whenever he
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hears about that fiasco.
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4) The TSR policy of "take old stuff and artwork, shuffle, give new
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name, add box and gouge" is particularily evident in their FR
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products. How many times do I need to buy the same map of Waterdeep?
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How many times do I need to be informed of Mirt's stats?
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5) Stunning inconsistency. I'm always amazed how they can keep
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generating totally inconsistent descriptions of major FR NPC's and
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settings. My favourite example is The Yawning Portal.
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6) Stupid table size maps. What the hell am I supposed to do with
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these things. Useless for the players... they are not supposed to
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know this info. Useless size for the DM. Ever tried to take a peek at
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a 4 foot map behind a DM's screen?
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7) Has anyone at TSR ever heard of an index?
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To summarize. After the original boxed set, the Waterdeep supplement
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and the Adventures hardback, I have not bought anything from TSR.
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Zero. Nothing in 6 years. The above info I've obtained from flipping
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through store copies. TSR product lies and ripoffs for Forgotten
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Realms has turned me off their company forever. (And that was before
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the endless, useless, large type, big margins, handbook series).
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Any product written by Ed Greenwood is DEFINITELY worth getting.
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Forgotten Realms Adventures
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---------------------------
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The FRA hardcover is a nice book -- it has numerous "new" spells, two
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page descriptions and maps of most major towns and cities, and it has
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info for updating 1st edition AD&D characters to 2nd edition. A
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little dry to read, but works well with the 1st edition set.
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The FR Adventures book was really handy. It had lots of neat info
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for converting the FR to second edition. The spell section helped to
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individualize the Realms, even though many looked awfully familar to
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the ones buried in the back of the 1st edition boxed set DM's
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manual... Plus it adds a lot of detail about treasures and unusual
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coins and gem descriptions. The only problem I had was that as
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someone who bought it *before* reading the Avatar trilogy, I found
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all the references to the Fall of the Avatars confusing. However,
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after reading those books, things were a lot clearer and actually
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made it even more interesting. Another point I want to make is that
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I do like the fact that the super-powerful classes (IMO) like the
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Barbarian, etc as well as the use of psionics were eliminated. These
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two things bothered me, especially when they were abused excessively
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by the players that did like them...
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Forgotten Realms Monstrous Compendiums (MC3 and MC11)
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-----------------------------------------------------
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The FR MC supplements were cool, but some of the monsters seemed to
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be over specialized. I guess this makes them ideal for unique
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encounters, but it sure seems like the whole MC series seems to
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emphasize unusual creatures over "generic" beasties. I dunno. I guess
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I find it odd that there is a much larger variety of VERY RARE
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monsters instead of COMMON ones which seems to not make too much
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sense on the surface...
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MC3 is too general IMHO to be considered just a FR appendix.
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FR MC3 was hurt by all those dinosaurs; they're neat, but I
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don't have a use for them (yet...), but in the meantime, it's hard
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to find the critters I want amid all those dinos.
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The FR MCs had good content but the loose-leaf format should be
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updated to the new booklet format, like the Planescape and Mystara
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Monstrous Compendium Appendices.
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MC11 has some nice "new" monsters in it (I've been told some are
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rehashes), but quite a bit of it is useless (like the saurials).
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It's always nice to have more monsters to throw around.
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FR Series
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A lot of great stuff here, I still use many of these supplements
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despite going to Second Edition. If you want a cheap version of the
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City of Splendors boxed set, get FR1 -- all the pertinent information
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on Waterdeep is in there. Dwarves Deep is awesome, too. It's like an
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early version of the "Complete Book of.." series; used in conjunction
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with the Dwarves' book one can really flesh out Dwarf characters.
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One of the most consistently good series in TSR history. The only bad
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products were the ones not associated with a particular land (i.e.
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The Magister, Hall of Heroes, Horde Campaign).
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Magister, Hall of Heroes and The Old Empires get higher ratings than
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most for little bits (interesting spells, some rules). Bloodstone
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Lands is pretty bad because it lacks the epic nature of the
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adventure. I liked the modules but I didn't like the campaign built
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around it. Most of the books had good information, but it was either
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treated only superficially or spread out haphazardly all over the
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book.
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Draconomicon (FOR1)
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Well assembled, but it doesn't contain a lot of any real use to the
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PCs, i.e. dragon's spells that they can't learn, several pages on
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dragon hunting that offer no game terms, a dragon artifact that can
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do nothing but bad to offer the PCs, assorted theories on draconic
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evolution. This can do a lot to flesh out dragons in your head, or
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offer some ideas for module plots, but there's little that you can
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actually add into your game. The little modules at the end are cute,
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but of little use, unless you just plan to incorporate them into your
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own material, or use them as SideTreks (tm).
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I just bought the Draconomicon a few days ago, and it seems
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interesting. It's definitely nice to have the second edition info on
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Tiamat and Bahamut (I'm a big fan of these two, and my players *will*
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encounter dragons a lot more from now on... >:). Though, it seems a
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little watered down in places where it should be more detailed...
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Draconomicon and Drow of the Underdark are perfect for any campaign,
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not just FR. They both are top-notch material.
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The Drow of the Underdark (FOR2)
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The Drow book is cool. Period. The only problem is that it is
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*so much* information, using it to its fullest potential would
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probably only be justified by basing an entire campaign around the
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Underdark with emphasis on the Drow.
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Excellent for PC drow and/or campaigns in Underdark. The only things
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missing are the abilities of avatars, and how long it takes to regain
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MR for long-time surface dwelling drow.
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Atlas of the Forgotten Realms World
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-----------------------------------
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The Atlas was helpful because it helped to piece all of the maps
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together plus a little more detail. It was also nice to see pictures
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of the places that were mentioned in the various novels...
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The Atlas is very useful in game play.
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If they had included some more detailed maps of regions (and not only
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those featured in the FR novels), it would be a great book.
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Aurora's Whole Realms Catalogue
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-------------------------------
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Actually, I give Aurora's Catalogue a 15 on the scale of 10, it's
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that darn good! Run out and buy it NOW! It has EVERYthing and has
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perfectly captured the feel of the early 20th century catalogues it
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imitates.
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Aurora's Catalogue is one of the best products TSR has put out. Long
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on detail, with the right amount of fluff to keep the reading
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interesting and informative.
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The Catalogue was great. It helps to fill in those annoying gaps in
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the phrase "you go into the store and you see for sale...uh..." It
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adds a lot of flavor to shopping for PCs and gives a good general
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idea of exactly what the common people in a medieval setting would
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actually peddle and own.
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Everything you ever wanted to know the price of, and some things you
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didn't. It needs an item index though.
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Player's Guide to the Forgotten Realms (PG2)
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--------------------------------------------
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The Player's Guide is pretty awful for any experienced players at
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all. I already knew most of it anyway.
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I expected a _lot_ more from the Player's Guide. All it ended up
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being was another copy of the main book from the setting's boxed set.
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TSR should be ashamed for ever publishing the Player's Guides, any of
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them. They are way too childish and poorly written.
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Elminster's Ecologies
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The only thing that keeps this from being a "10" is the fact that the
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covers shoud have been something other than paper.
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Good product! Enough said.
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Menzoberranzan Boxed Set
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I'm biased, I'm sorry, I just love Drow! I can't help it (sob).
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This has enough to provide a good basis for adventuring in the
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underdark, though I would have liked to see more on the outer areas
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and less on House statistics (but I can see why TSR did it that way).
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Ruins of Undermountain Boxed Set
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--------------------------------
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Lots of really, really cool ideas in a humonguous labrynthine layout.
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Unfortunately, there's no connections between the placed encounters.
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It's as though each separate encounter is happening in a vacuum. Can
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you see a lich being content to sit in his one room, and never go
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bother the bugbears down the hall?
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Full of possibilities, although I would have liked to see more areas
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fleshed out -- double that criticism for #2.
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Ruins of Undermountain II: The Deep Levels
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------------------------------------------
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In comparison to the first boxed set RoUII is very poor: many
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printing errors (even on the maps!), big black spaces on the maps,
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bad descriptions of rooms.
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Undermountain II has nothing to do with the original (much better)
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set.
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CRAP, CRAP, CRAP, NOTHING BUT CRAP! If anyone's really interested, I
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have 14 pages worth of specific criticism on this place. It's just
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loaded with errors. In some places, the errors are enough to make it
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unrunnable. One section, entitled Wyllowwood, has a map, and a set of
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room descriptions that do not simply disagree with each other at
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times, they are in perpetual war! Billing this module as "an
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adventure for use with the AD&D system" verges on fraud, since,
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system aside, It's unusable. If you liked UnderMountain I, you'll
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HATE UnderMountain II. There's lots more that I could say on the
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subject, but if I keep going, I'll probably start foaming at the
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mouth again, and that does nasty things to a keyboard. [I checked,
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and he does indeed have 14 pages of specific criticism. Fortunately
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for me, he had a seizure after typing in only a page, so I didn't
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have to read it all. - Goth :-)]
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Ruins of Undermountain II: The Deep Levels it is NOT!!! It stinks!!!
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I cannot understand how the sequel can be this bad, 'cause I really
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liked the first, it's one of the best adventures ever written. All of
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this is my own opinion and I hope I'm not offending anyone (except
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TSR).
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Ruins of Undermountain II is the most disgusting product I have ever
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seen.
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The End
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