289 lines
15 KiB
Plaintext
289 lines
15 KiB
Plaintext
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****************************************
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** Lord Lawless **
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LL Presents LL
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LL "THE TKOS INTERVIEWS" LL
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LL Interview #1 LL
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LL ------------ LL
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LL TUC LL
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LL --- LL
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** (C) 1987-A Lord Lawless Production **
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****************************************
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This interview is being conducted by Lord Lawless with TUC, the famous hack/
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phreaker of TKOS and Fargo 4A fame. He was a fabulous hack/phreaker, and
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good friends with (and taught) Bioc Agent 003.
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Handle: TUC
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Board: RACS III
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Board Telephone #: 914-LOGONIT
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First Name: For all intents and purposes, Scott
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Present Age: 21 and A half, + 19 days
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Q. TUC, how did you get that strange Handle?
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A. It's a nick-name from high school; part of my last name. To get people
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to pronounce my name correctly, I'd have to keep telling them that a part of
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it was Tuc, and the nick-name given to me by my friends stuck. I later
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picked it as a handle.
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Q. In what year did TUC start phreak/hacking?
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A. Actually, I first started using a modem in September 1980. It wasn't
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until almost two years later that I got involved with the phreak/hack aspect
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of BBS's and modem-use.
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Q. How old was Tuc when he began using a modem?
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A. 14.
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Q. What do you remember starting with?
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A. I started with a Radio Shack Model I, 16k, Two disk drives, and an RS232
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cable connecting to to my 300 baud modem. At that time, that was a pretty
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expensive system.
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Q. What boards were you on in the beginning?
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A. As well as I can remember, systems like Pirate Trek I,II,III, and The
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Apple Orchard. Apple boards were big then.
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Q. What were your interests then (when you first started)?
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A. Believe it or not, my first real interest was in running a board. Right
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from the start I wanted to put one up, and eventually I did. I called it
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Connection 80, but it didn't go anywhere. Then, in January of 1982 I got
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some software from a sysop and put up a board. I called it RACS III. It had
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8 built in sub-boards, and there was one of them that I couldn't understand.
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It was called the "Phreak" sub, and I had no idea what it was. I had no idea
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what it was or what should be posted there, and I was going to take it out,
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but the sysop who gave me the software said, "Leave it in, people will call
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and post on it." Now, I wanted calls, so I left it in. Eventually people
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started posting on the boards, and on that sub-board too (phreak sub). I
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began to get a glimmering of what phreaking was. Then, on May 8, 1982 I was
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really introduced to Phreaking, and I guess this is where you could say that
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my "career" started. On that day, Susan Thunder called, and she knew ALOT.
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She began to teach me, and she told people to call my board and to call me
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voice and help me learn. I have an interesting little note here saying that
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BIOC Agent 003 called my board and left a message begging for access on July
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7, 1982.
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Q. Describe the state of the telecom world as best you can when you first
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started.
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A. Well, at first, I had no idea what was going on, so in the beginning I
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can't really say that I had ANY knowledge of the Telecom world. When I first
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called boards, I didn't even know what codes were, and I sure as hell didn't
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know anything sophisticated. Even after beginning to understand a little, I
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wasn't hot to be a Phreak. At this point I had been in it for a year and a
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half, and I didn't still couldn't say I knew what was going on. As I began
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to get sophisticated people calling my board, I began to call other more
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"elite" boards and learn more.
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Q. As you "got better", what boards did you start to call?
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A. I called 8 BBS once, MOM (Modems Over Manhattan) often, Pirates IO,
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Whopper, PloverNet, Sherwood Forest II, etc.
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Q. Now that you were learning, did you have any new interests?
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A. At this point, I had begun to really learn about phreak/hacking. Susan
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Thunder had really gotten my interest in it up. However, at the time I was
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being "taught" by Susan, I was still really nothing in the phreak world. I
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did a lot of learning on boards but mostly by talking with people like Mad
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Dog, Rich Smith, Larry Kelly, Richard Starbuck, and ArpaHacker. Without
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theirs and Susan's help I doubt I could ever have become as successful as I
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did. I learned about conferences first, and at that time you'd have a
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conference by everyone calling up one number, a glitch in a telix network,
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and you'd all be hooked together. Things like that. To keep down my phone
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bill I used to hand-hack LD codes, I have never used a computer hacker in my
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life. I used ITT, Western Union, Sprint, and Citicall. I also used some
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miscellaneaus 800 LD services. But really right now I was more interested in
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the hacking aspect of computers than in phreaking. For some reason, I
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really, really wanted to learn about TRW, and I became a very accomplished
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TRW hacker. I also was into ITT Worldcom, Cosmos systems, City Bank, Shell,
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Cal Polytech, and Caldwell Banker systems.
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Q. So now it's like late 1982, early 1983, what was going on?
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A. Well, that was a while ago, and the years from 1983-1985 are sort of a
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blur of phreaking and hacking systems, I got really into it, and became
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"elite". Not like the reputation I have today, I was not yet any type of
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"super hacker/phreak", but I was getting damned good, and had made a lot of
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acquaintances in the hack/phreak world. And then, in Early 1985, something
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happened that really threw me into the world of the "Super-Elite".
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Q. What was that?
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A. That was the formation of Fargo 4A. Regardless of what people tell you,
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that group was not formed as a joke. It may have been formed on the spot,
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and never done much as a group, but it was THERE.
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Q. How did it form?
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A. Well, that's a pretty funny story really. Me and 6 other people were on
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a conference at the time. Bioc Agent 003, Big Brother, Video Warhead, Wizard
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of Arpanet, Quasimodo, and one other person I can't remember. We called up
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Directory Assistance in the 701 area, and we told them that their system, was
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being taken down, and that we (pretending we were Bell Systems) would
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rerout their calls through Chicago for them. We told these people to go
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home, and all the people at that office went home!! Only one person that we
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somehow missed telling was left taking calls at the CO. We got the name
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Fargo 4A because that was the office in Fargo, North Dakota that we called.
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We were now a group, though really except for calling each other voice a lot
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and saying we would do something, we never did anything. However, we were
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known to know a lot, and we could sign "Fargo 4A" under our name...hooray...
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At this point none of us (members of Fargo 4A) was super-elite, but we were
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getting there. Now for awhile we just sorta hung out, until TKOS was formed.
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Q. Tell me what you remember of TKOS.
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A. Well, I, along with all of the members of Fargo 4A were asked to be
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members of TKOS, a group formed by Mr. Xerox in mid-late 1985. As a group,
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TKOS was real shaky and unorganized. Before I was asked in, I only talked to
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two people, the Necromancer, and Mr. Xerox. I really spoke only to Mr. Xerox
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about TKOS. Now here comes the strange thing about TKOS. We were a group
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that never was in touch with each other at all. I mean, Xerox got all of
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Fargo 4A into TKOS, and he did this to give TKOS a name. I never heard from
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many of the other TKOS members. TKOS was basically another Fargo 4A, since
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that's where most of the members came from. Articles were released by one
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person in TKOS, but they were really only written by one person and released
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under the TKOS name. I never saw many of them until they were up on some BBS
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that I'd call!! However, with all it's "untogetherness", TKOS was a damn
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powerful/elite group. We were "the tops" at this time. We were, to my
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knowledge, the only group to have an elite group account on a list of boards
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around the nation over two pages long. See, but at this point things started
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to get troublesome. We were cruising along as a loosely knit group, and TKOS
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survived with Xerox running it, and the old members of Fargo 4A were the
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base of support and knowledge in TKOS. Shortly this led to the original
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Fargo people quitting TKOS because they saw no purpose in a group that wasn't
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helping them, but instead using their name and influence to promote itself.
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Here's a few sidelights. First, Paul Muad'dib was never TKOS. He was asked,
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but never accepted. A funny thing, Bioc wrote the Basics of Telecom series,
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but I never found out who wrote the Basics of Hacking series. I think it was
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probably Xerox, but I really can't be sure, and no one I've talked to seems
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to be sure anymore. This is just an example of how shoddily organized TKOS
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actually was. In late 1985, Fargo 4A pulled out of TKOS, and TKOS began to
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crumble as a group.
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Q. Can you tell me all you remember of the Sherwood Forest Boards?
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A. Ok, this gets pretty complex, but here's the story as I knew it, and I'm
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sure it's the real correct version. I was never on the first Sherwood
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Forest, it was a board in New Jersey, and nothing ever happened on it. The
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one that most people think of when they think of The SF's is either two or
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three.
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Sherwood Forest II went up in 1983 or so, and was run by Creative Cracker.
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It was called II because CC had liked the name Sherwood Forest but didn't
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want to steal the name from the board in New Jersey, so he called it SF II.
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Creative Cracker was the sysop, and the Phreak Advisors were TUC, BIOC, and
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Big Brother. Now this board was the first real hack/phreak Sherwood, and it
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was a rocking board. However, it had no affiliation to Sherwood Forest I in
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New Jersey.
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Then Sherwood Forest III went up, and it was affilliated to Creative Crackers
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SF II. It too became a really good board, and the sysop was High Technology.
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Another Sherwood Forest I sprang up in mid 1985. It was private, and probably
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the main TKOS hangout. Magnetic Surfer was the sysop and he was in TKOS for
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a while, but later he was kicked out. He called his board Sherwood Forest I
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even though it went up much later than SF II or SF III.
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When TKOS broke up, Surfer took down SH I.
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Ok, so now it's Late 1985. SF I has just gone down (Surfer's board), but SF
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II, SF III are up and cooking along. The Original Members of Fargo 4A are
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definant legends of phreak/hackdom at this point. Now, however, Creative
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Cracker takes down SF II. This is because he got some serious pressure by
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Feds and TRW to take it down, or they would take it down for him, HARD. So
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he took it down. No one was busted at this point. After this, CC bought a
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Macintosh, and lives unhappily ever after.
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Now also, after SF II goes down, SF III goes down. High Technology got
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scared after seeing the pressure put on Creative Cracker, and took down SF
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III, because he was afraid that the same thing that happened to CC would
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happen to him (even though nothing happened to CC). In all of this no board
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was ever run by a Fed, no one was really busted, and nothing much really
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happened, the board just went down.
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Q. Do you have any major accomplishments you'd like to mention?
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A. Not really, a lot went on, let's leave that to peoples imagination.
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Q. What was your relation to BIOC Agent 003?
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A. BIOC and I lived about 20 minutes from each other, and were good friends
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even though he was 3 years younger than me. We wrote stuff together, hung
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out together, went to TAP meetings, and were generally good friends. He now
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attends a Technical College.
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Q. Can you say who was in TKOS?
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A. Well, here it is as I can remember it.
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All original Fargo 4A members.
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Mr. Xerox-Leader of the group.
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The StockBroker
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Necromancer-Tuc spoke to him twice.
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E.F. Hutton
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Q. How risky was phreak/hacking at the time you were really into it?
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A. It really wasn't that Risky at that time. It really was the "good old
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days". They hadn't yet set up any format laws, so even if people got busted
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(which they didn't often because the equipment to bust phreaks hadn't really
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been used much yet), not much would happen to them. I remember if someone we
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knew got busted, we would all hide our shit for a week or so (I'd usually
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pack it all a way for a day or two, and then take it out) and then we'd be
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back to normal again.
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Q. Can you remember any major busts back then?
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A. Well, the one that really comes to mind is the 414 busts. That is
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probably one of the most famous busts of all kind. It was in the 414 area
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code, Wisconsin. A local and yet powerful group had formed, calling
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themselves the 414's, and they eventually got caught and were busted, all of
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them. The people in the group that I can remember were Sam Snead, Caroline
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Pfeifer, and Mike Wesolowski-->ran 414's private board, sysop.
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Q. Did you ever meet John Maxfield-aka Cable Pair?
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A. Yes, after I went into the security business.
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Q. Why'd you drop out of phreak world?
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A. I had really gotten tired of it. It was good for a while, but there's
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only so much you can do, only so many times you could post the same info,
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only so long you could worry about being caught, and I wanted out. An offer
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for a security job was made to me by people who's board I called (I knew they
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were Security, and they knew me), and I took the job and ended my Phreak/Hack
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career, though I guess you could say I do it legally now. I never informed
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on anyone however, and all of the information I had on users and such on my
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board and elsewhere remained confidential to myself only.
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Q. What's your opinion of phreaking/hacking today?
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A. It's crumbling around itself. The information is more guarded, the
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security is much tighter, and the "kiddies can't get out from under it".
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It's a shame it has to go, but sooner or later it's going to crush itself
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under its own weight. People no longer talk to each other voice, they only
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converse through a bulletin board. In order to really learn people must call
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each other direct and have frequent conferences, but in order to do this the
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BBS's and the people must become more open and trusting, and I don't think
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that that will happen. Today, the attitude on most boards is rather closed,
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and it's going to be damn hard for people to continue the phone phreak/hacker
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tradition in the future.
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Thanks Tuc, and that's all we have time for now.
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I hope you enjoyed this file, for more information from TUC himself, call
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his board, listed at the beginning of this file.
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This has been a Lord Lawless Presentation.
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(C) Lord Lawless 1987
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Completed on June 12, 1987.
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