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615 lines
31 KiB
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BBS: Christian Central
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Date: 04-01-94 (12:34) Number: 5714
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From: JAMES WHITE Refer#: NONE
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To: DOUG SNEAD Recvd: NO
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Subj: RIPLINGER Conf: (170) E-kjv Ccn
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---------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>> Doug was saying to James on 31 Mar 94 18:06:00 <<
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DS>I'm new to this echo, so forgive me for my provincial ways. Having
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jus
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DS>read Riplinger's book, it is fascinating to observe the lines of
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DS>argument here against it. It is especially gratifying to see the
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DS>intense (and emotional) outbursts this book has produced! One has to
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DS>sift through many heated, unrelated, child-like, and petty comments
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in
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DS>this echo to get to any real refutation of Riplinger's position at
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all
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DS>(precious little that there is). The phrase 'got his goat'
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immediately
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DS>comes to mind. Look's like Riplinger got your goat full-on. (Am I
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DS>wrong?)
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DS>Being new to this little echo, and not having read any 'rules' post,
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I
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DS>assume that this is an anti-Authorized Version echo exclusively.
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Does
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DS>anyone know (or dare tell) of a pro-AV echo?
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DS>Also, are you the same 'James White', author of so many
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anti-Jehovah's
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DS>Witness papers? If so, what's it like to be on the same anti-AV
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side a
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DS>the JWs on this one?
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Hi, Doug, and welcome aboard.
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The echo is for the discussion of KJV Only beliefs, whether pro or con.
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It
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just happens that most of those who have logged on have not been KJV
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Only,
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and have recognized the errors of that position.
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As to Mrs. Riplinger, yes, I confess to being very bothered by her
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book,
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for it truly disheartens me to see someone naming the name of Christ
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and
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yet willing to engage in the grossest of misrepresentation. Even the
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Witnesses are more honest in their citations than Mrs. Riplinger. I
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would
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point out that if the term "get one's goat" is relevant, you might wish
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to
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ask Mrs. Riplinger who has gotten whose goat. Recently she described
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me as
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"rude and crude" and as a "heretic" on WMUZ in Detroit. Me thinks she
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is
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the one with the personal grudge, not I.
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As to not seeing anything of substance in response to her book, you
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probably missed the posting of my initial review that started things in
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this echo. There has been no response from anyone wishing to defend
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the
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book, and hence little reason to repost the same information over and
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over
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again.
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For your benefit, I'll repost the first few messages in this echo,
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following this one. I hope we can have some fruitful discussions.
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James>>>
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* Wave Rider 1.10 # 155 *
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... Eat right, exercise, and die anyway. Hebrews 9:27
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--- Blue Wave/Max v1.10 [NR]
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* Origin: Pros Apologian: Toward a Defense of the Faith (8:7007/2.0)
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SEEN-BY: 1015/0 50 3200/207 7007/0 2
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===========================================================================
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BBS: Christian Central
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Date: 04-01-94 (09:43) Number: 5715
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From: JAMES WHITE Refer#: NONE
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To: ALL Recvd: NO
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Subj: WELCOME/RULES Conf: (170) E-kjv Ccn
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* Original To : All (8:2016/4)
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* Original Subj: Welcome
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Folks:
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Welcome!
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My name is James White, and I am the moderator of this new echo,
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dedicated to the discussion and dissemination of accurate information
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regarding the controversy concerning the King James Version (or AV)
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being the only accurate translation of the Bible in English.
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The rules of conferences I moderate are simple and to the point.
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1) Do not post inappropriate messages. This includes messages that
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are off-topic, contain vulgarities, or contain nothing more
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than flames of other participants.
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2) Do not respond to inappropriate messages.
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See how easy that is?
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Now, of course, I realize that such rules require interpretation,
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and, as moderator, that's what I'll do. But, anyway.....
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So, I hope some folks who are interested in this issue will enter the
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conversation.
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James>>>
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--- Maximus 2.01wb
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* Origin: Pros Apologian: Toward a Defense of the Faith (8:7007/2)
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SEEN-BY: 1015/0 50 3200/207 7007/0 2
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===========================================================================
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BBS: Christian Central
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Date: 04-01-94 (09:44) Number: 5716
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From: JAMES WHITE Refer#: NONE
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To: DOUG SNEAD Recvd: NO
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Subj: RECENT DEBATE Conf: (170) E-kjv Ccn
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---------------------------------------------------------------------------
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* Original To : All (8:2016/4)
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Recently I "debated" (if two 1/2 hour radio programs can qualify for
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such a term) Gayle Riplinger, author of "New Age Bible Versions." If
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anyone has read this book, I'd like to dialogue with you. Till then,
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I provide my initial review of her work:
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Notes on Gayle Riplinger's New Age Bible Versions
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The issues raised by Gayle Riplinger are very important, if only for
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the fact that in this book professing Christian men who lived godly
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lives are attacked mercilessly, and are associated with men who were
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anything but godly or concerned about Christian truth. Orthodox
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Christian theologians are indiscriminately associated with heretics
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without any thought as to the consistency of such an action. Since
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we have in this book serious allegations of downright Satanic actions
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on the part of Christian leaders, I feel Mrs. Riplinger should be
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held to the highest standards of scholarly acumen and accuracy.
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Gayle Riplinger claims that her book "objectively and methodically
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documents the hidden alliance between new versions and the new Age
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Movement's One World Religion." However, an even semi-unbiased
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review of Mrs. Riplinger's book reveals that this book is neither
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methodical, nor objective, in any way, shape or form.
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Now we need to remember that New Age Bible Versions is not a nice
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book. It plainly and obviously identifies anyone who was involved in
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the production of modern Bible versions, or who would dare to defend
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translations such as the New American Standard Bible or the New
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International Version, as not just non-Christians, but as
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anti-Christians who are opposed to God's work in this world and
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actually want everyone to worship Lucifer. Anyone who opposes Gayle
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Riplinger's unique view of the world and theology is , in fact, a New
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Ager in sheep's clothing. A quick review of her book bears this out.
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She alleges that these new versions prepare the apostate church of
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these last days to accept the Antichrist, his mark, his image, and
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religion--Lucifer worship. She describes the historic Reformed
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doctrine of regeneration, a doctrine taught by Martin Luther, Ulrich
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Zwingli, Martin Bucer, John Calvin, the crafters of the Westminster
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Confession of Faith, the Puritans, C harles Haddon Spurgeon, B. B.
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Warfield, J.I, Packer a nd R.C. Sproul, as those that "an orthodox
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Christian would find shocking." Riplinger connects Christian men
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such as Edwin Palmer with everyone from Blavatsky to Hitler to
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Charlie Manson! All are in one boat according to New Age
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Bible
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Versions. No opportunity is missed to insult, attack, and degrade
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those who would dare oppose Mrs. Riplinger's position. In light of
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this, I hope no one will take too much offense at my less than
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sparkling review of Gayle's book.
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I note in passing that this book centers on the two most popular
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conservative Bible translations, the New American Standard Bible and
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the New International Version. Very little is said about blatantly
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liberal translations such as the New Revised Standard Version or the
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New English Bible, most probably because these translations have had
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little impact, comparatively speaking, to the NASB and the NIV. I
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would join Gayle in critiquing these translations, not as part of
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some New Age conspiracy, but as less th an accurate translations of
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the Bible. But Gayle barely mentions these versions; her target is
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plainly the NIV and the NASB.
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As an apologist working on the front lines in dealing with the claims
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of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the Watchtower
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Bible and Tract Society, and in debating Roman Catholic apologists
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all across the United States, I have only once or twice encountered a
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work that contained more misrepresentation of historical facts, cited
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sources of documentation, and the writings of those who are being
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reviewed. New Age Bible Versions shows not the slightest concern for
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accurately representing its oppo sition. Context is a term that is
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utterly lost in the maze of disconnected, disjointed citations thrown
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at the reader on almost every page. Utterly illogical argumentation
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carries the day in Gayle's attempt to find a New Age conspiracy
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behind every bush. Even the deity of Christ is undermined so as to
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maintain the supposed inerrancy of a translation, that being the KJV.
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And worst of all, Gayle Riplinger attacks the memories and characters
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of good men of God, such as Edwi n Palmer, without once differenti
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ating between the beliefs and actions of such men and the likes of
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New Age wackos and Satanists. She misrepresents their writings and
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words over and over and over again. Accurate representation of
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others is one thing that is utterly lacking in New Age Bible
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Versions.
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Those are some pretty harsh words, but the documentation of these
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statements is easily found. All one has to do is take Gayle
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Riplinger's book, New Age Bible Versions, and then take the time to
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find such books as Barker's The NIV: The Making of a Contemporary
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Translation, Palmer's The Person and Ministry of the Holy Spirit, and
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John Kohlenberger's Words About the Word, and examine the references
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provided at the end of the book. The number of complete
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mis-citations and altered quotations will quickly prove the
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correctness of my statements. Given the small amount of time we have
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today, I will only be able to provide a few examples, but I could
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literally expand the list indefinitely.
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First, one simply cannot believe the "facts" that are presented in
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this book, for quite often, they are not facts at all. There are
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dozens and dozens of charts throughout the book, allegedly comparing
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the KJV with the supposed "New Versions," which she calls "mutant
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versions." Yet, over and over again these charts are simply wrong.
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On page 22 we are told that the "New Versions" delete the call to
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take up the cross, when they do not. We are told that while the KJV
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tells us to bless our enemies, the new v ersions tell us to call our
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enemies bastards, which, of course, they do not.
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<continued>
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--- Maximus 2.01wb
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* Origin: Pros Apologian: Toward a Defense of the Faith (8:7007/2)
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SEEN-BY: 1015/0 50 3200/207 7007/0 2
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===========================================================================
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BBS: Christian Central
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Date: 04-01-94 (09:44) Number: 5717
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From: JAMES WHITE Refer#: NONE
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To: DOUG SNEAD Recvd: NO
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Subj: RECENT DEBATE #2 Conf: (170) E-kjv Ccn
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---------------------------------------------------------------------------
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* Original To : All (8:2016/4)
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<continued from previous>
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At times the facts are 180 degrees opposite of what is claimed by
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Gayle Riplinger. For example, on page 99 we read, "All new versions,
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based on a tiny percentage of corrupt Greek manuscripts, make the
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fatefully frightening addition of three words in Revelation 14:1."
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She then quotes the passage from the NIV, which reads, "...the Lamb,
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standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his
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Father's name written on their foreheads." The phrase "his name and"
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is not found in the KJV. She con tinues on page 100, "Will the
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unwary, reading Revelation 14:1 in a recent version, be persuaded
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that the bible sanctions and encourages the taking of "his name" on
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their forehead before they receive his Father's name?" Such sounds
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truly ominous, until one discovers that in point of fact, it is the
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Textus Receptus, the Greek Text of the New Testament utilized by the
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KJV translators, that alone does not contain the disputed phrase,
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"his name." The Majority Text contains it, as do all the Greek
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texts. We ha ve here merely a mistake on the part, most probably, of
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Desiderius Erasmus, the Roman Catholic priest who collated what
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became the Textus Receptus. He had major problems in producing the
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text of Revelation, and merely skipped over the phrase referring to
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the Lamb's name. Sadly, someone reading New Age Bible Versions could
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be led to attack the NIV on the basis of a basic mistake.
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The modern versions are unashamedly misrepresented in place after
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place by the convenient use of punctuation. While attempting to
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argue that new versions teach us to believe in monism through the use
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of the term "one," the NASB is cited as follows, "True knowledge
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according to the image of the One..." on page 92. The reference
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given is Colossians 3:10, which reads in full from the NASB: "And
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have put on the new self who is being renewed to a true knowledge
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according to the image of the One who created hi m--a renewal in
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which there is no distinction between Greek and Jew, circumcised or
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uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave and freeman, but Christ is
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all, and in all."
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The arguments put forward in this book at times border on the
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ludicrous. The chart found on page 26 should fascinate anyone
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seeking logical thinking. On page 232 we are warned against the
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letter "s." Riplinger writes, "Watch out for the letter `s' -- sin,
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Satan, Sodom, Saul (had to be changed to Paul). The added `s` here
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is the hiss of the serpent." Such argumentation would lead us to
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abandon such terms as salvation, Savior, and sanctification as well!
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Indeed, on page 174 our author recommends the KJ V's use of the term
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"sober" over other translations, possibly missing the "hiss" of that
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"s" on "sober." I, as a Reformed theologian, was certainly amazed to
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discover that, according to Mrs. Riplinger, the "Five Points" of
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Calvinism form a Satanic pentagram! And everyone should surely take
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heed to Mrs. Riplinger's use of "acrostic algebra" on page 149.
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Here, in a passage reminiscent of the identifications of Henry
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Kissinger as the anti-Christ two decades a go, Mrs. Riplinger
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demonstrates how the abbreviat ions for the New American Standard
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Version and the New International Version add up to the word "sin"
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when the Authorized Version is taken away. Not only is such
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argumentation utterly without merit, but it is interesting to note
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that throughout the rest of the book Mrs. Riplinger abbreviates the
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New American Standard Bible as NASB, but solely for the purpose of
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this trip into "acrostic algebra," she changes to the NASV, an
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abbreviation used nowhere else in the book. Indeed, over and over
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and over again th e arguments that are put forward could easily be
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turned around and used against the KJV and Mrs. Riplinger's position.
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The use of such argumentation should warn the reader that all is not
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well in New Age Bible Versions.
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Double standards are rampant throughout the book. Shortly after
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attacking all modern versions for daring to use the term "one" in
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their translations, she fails to attack the KJV for using it in her
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own citation of it on page 93. When the modern versions do not
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follow the KJV in rendering the Greek term Artemidos as Diana, she
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accuses them of being ignorant of classical mythology on page 127;
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but when they recognize similar gods in Old Testament passages, she
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accuses them of rejecting the one true God in f avor of false gods.
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And in what would probably be one of the most amusing examples of
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double standards, if it were not so sad, Gayle Riplinger attacks all
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who are Reformed, or "Calvinists," in many places, as I shall discuss
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and refute later. But in the process she seems to be blissfully
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unaware of the simple fact that amongst the KJV translators you have
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the likes of Doctor John Rainolds, a Puritan! And surely Mrs.
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Riplinger must be aware of the theological beliefs of the Puritans!
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They were Reformed men, Calvinists, who s trongly believed in God's
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sovereignty and the deadness of man in sin. If Edwin Palmer's
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Calvinistic beliefs make the NIV one of Satan's tricks, what about
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the KJV?
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It seems that as long as someone had anything at all to do with the
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production of the NIV, it is fair game to not only impugn their
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character, but to misrepresent their words. For example, on page 89
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of New Age Bible Versions, we read the following, "Even NIV
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translator Larry Walker applauds the rejection of the Hebrew Old
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Testament for the Ugaritic wherein the gods of pantheism preside."
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The reference given is to Walker's article, again in the book on the
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NIV, specifically pages 101-102. Yet, one will s earch in vain
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throughout the article for the slightest reference to a rejection of
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the Hebrew Old Testament in favor of anything else at all. The
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citation simply has nothing to do with the allegation that is made.
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<continued>
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--- Maximus 2.01wb
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* Origin: Pros Apologian: Toward a Defense of the Faith (8:7007/2)
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SEEN-BY: 1015/0 50 3200/207 7007/0 2
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===========================================================================
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BBS: Christian Central
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Date: 04-01-94 (09:44) Number: 5718
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From: JAMES WHITE Refer#: NONE
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To: DOUG SNEAD Recvd: NO
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Subj: RECENT DEBATE #3 Conf: (170) E-kjv Ccn
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---------------------------------------------------------------------------
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* Original To : All (8:2016/4)
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<continued from previous>
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On page 165 we have another personal attack upon an NIV translator,
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Herbert Wolf, for his defense of the very logical, scholarly
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translation of the Hebrew "zedekah" in poetic contexts by the term
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"prosperity." Ignoring the very solid, reasonable defense given by
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Wolf, Riplinger chooses instead to play games with the man's name,
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writing, "Perhaps the armour and breastplate of `righteousness does
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not fit' Mr. Wolf and his pack because they are puffed up and
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paunchy, because they have devoured souls (Ezekiel 22:25)." She goes
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on to say, "Paul said that those, like Wolf, who teach that `gain is
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godliness' are `destitute of the truth.' Equating financial
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prosperity with spirituality is a common characteristic of the `New'
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Christianity and the New Age." Of course, anyone can see that Wolf
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said nothing at all about equating prosperity and spirituality; this
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is mere fantasy on Riplinger's part. Yet the book is filled from
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cover to cover with such misrepresentati on and wild imagination.
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Mrs. Riplinger moves on to attack another NIV translator, Richard
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Longenecker. On page 345, after saying that the NIV "joins the
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cults," she massacres a quote from Longenecker, again from the book,
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The NIV: The Making of a Contemporary Translation. She introduces
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Longenecker's quotation as follows: "To Longnecker, Jesus was
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`chosen' to receive the title `Son of God' because he earned it
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through `obedience.' He says, that Jesus, [then quoting]
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...exemplified in his life an unparalleled obedience...[H]e h as the
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greatest right to the title...God's son par excellence." A quick
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glance at page 125 of the original source reveals yet once again that
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Gayle Riplinger has misrepresented yet another Christian scholar.
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Longenecker says nothing of the kind, and in fact gives a very solid,
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orthodox, Biblically based discussion of the Sonship of Jesus Christ.
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In light of this it is amazing to read again on page 345 that
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Riplinger says, "Both Longnecker and Carlson are expressing a view
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similar to that held by the earl y Adoptionists, Dynamic Monarchists
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or Ebionites." Not only is this utterly untrue of what Longenecker
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said in the cited passage, but it is equally untrue of the other
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person she mentions, D. A. Carson. Neither are adoptionists.
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Now, it is possible that all these misrepresentations are due to
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horrifically poor research on Gayle Riplinger's part. For example,
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she misspells the names of both Longenecker and Carson on page 345,
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even though ostensibly quoting from their books while accusing them
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of being cultists. On the previous page she misspells the term
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"Mormon" as well; indeed, every time it appears in the book it is
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spelled incorrectly. Possibly she simply read other people's books
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and then got all her bad information from tho se secondary sources.
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Who knows? All I know is that the book is one long misrepresentation
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from the preface to the index.
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Edwin Palmer wrote an article comparing the KJV and the NIV that
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appears in the book, The NIV: The Making of a Contemporary
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Translation. On page 153 he addresses 1 Peter 2:9 which, in the KJV
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refers to a "peculiar people." He wrote, "Today that means `odd
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people.' It should be, `a people belonging to God.' (NIV)." Edwin
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Palmer believed strongly that God's people are a special people, a
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people chosen by God Himself and set apart by their holiness. Yet on
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page 170, Gayle Riplinger, under the title "The C ountry Club or the
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Cross," writes, "A lifestyle driven by verses not vogue, will brand
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one as "peculiar" (NERD, in the vernacular). Unwilling to bear `his
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reproach,' the NIV's Edwin Palmer pushes the "peculiar people" of
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Titus 2:14 and 1 Peter 2:9 into the closet--already crowded with the
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`righteous' and `the perfect.' Palmer writes, "...a peculiar people.
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Today that means odd. It should be..." She goes on to say, "It
|
|
meant odd when Peter and Paul wrote it and when Moses wrote it 4000
|
|
years earlier." In reality, the term has nothing at all to do with
|
|
"odd" or "peculiar" as we use it today. In point of fact, the Greek
|
|
term found in 1 Peter 2:9 is also found in Ephesians 1:14, where the
|
|
KJV translates it as "possession"! That Riplinger can say that a
|
|
Christian minister was unwilling to bear the reproach of Christ for
|
|
more accurately understanding the Greek term peripoiesis than she
|
|
does is absolutely amazing.
|
|
|
|
It is Palmer himself, the editor of the NIV Study Bible until his
|
|
death in 1980, who comes in for the most obvious personal attack on
|
|
the part of Riplinger. I can see no other conclusions, having
|
|
examined Riplinger's attacks upon Palmer, than either she is grossly
|
|
dishonest in her methods, or is completely ignorant of the writings
|
|
of Edwin Palmer and what he actually believed. I can see no other
|
|
possibilities. For example, on page 344 she attempts to parallel
|
|
Palmer's quotation, "The Holy Spirit did not beget the Son" with a
|
|
quotation from Brigham Young from the Journal of Discourses. Of
|
|
course, Palmer, in the context in which he was speaking, was exactly
|
|
right, since he was speaking of the internal operations of the
|
|
Trinity. Young, on the other hand, was denying the Christian
|
|
doctrine of the Virgin Birth. One might conjecture that Riplinger
|
|
has never read either Palmer's statements, or those of Brigham Young,
|
|
and hence did not know that she was mixing contex ts so badly. In
|
|
either case, her point is ut terly false.
|
|
|
|
<continued>
|
|
|
|
|
|
--- Maximus 2.01wb
|
|
* Origin: Pros Apologian: Toward a Defense of the Faith (8:7007/2)
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SEEN-BY: 1015/0 50 3200/207 7007/0 2
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|
7/2 0
|
|
===========================================================================
|
|
BBS: Christian Central
|
|
Date: 04-01-94 (09:44) Number: 5719
|
|
From: JAMES WHITE Refer#: NONE
|
|
To: DOUG SNEAD Recvd: NO
|
|
Subj: RECENT DEBATE FINAL Conf: (170) E-kjv Ccn
|
|
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
|
* Original To : All (8:2016/4)
|
|
|
|
<continued from previous>
|
|
|
|
The same is to be said of her citation of Palmer's words with regards
|
|
to the deity of Christ. On page 2 she quotes Palmer in the following
|
|
form: "[F]ew clear and decisive texts say that Jesus is God." This
|
|
is taken as sure evidence of Palmer's supposed heresy. Yet, is this
|
|
accurate? No, yet once again context has been thrown out the window.
|
|
Palmer is actually talking about the rendering of John 1:18 in the
|
|
NIV. His words are, "John 1:18, as inspired by the Holy Spirit, is
|
|
one of those few and clear a nd decisive texts that declare that
|
|
Jesus is God. But, without fault of its own, the KJV, following
|
|
inferior manuscripts, altered what the Holy Spirit said through
|
|
John,
|
|
calling Jesus `Son.' " My what a difference context makes! And
|
|
Palmer is exactly right. There are less than ten places in all the
|
|
New Testament that could possibly apply the term theos to Jesus
|
|
Christ; if that is not "few" then what is?
|
|
|
|
In passing, I wish to note that Riplinger even misleads her readers
|
|
regarding the deity of Christ in an effort to maintain the accuracy
|
|
of the KJV. I am referring to two important passages, Titus 2:13 and
|
|
2 Peter 1:1. The NIV translates Titus 2:13, "While we wait for the
|
|
blessed hope--the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior,
|
|
Jesus Christ." and 2 Peter 1:1 says, "To those who through the
|
|
righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a
|
|
faith as precious as ours." In both cases t he KJV interrupts the
|
|
proper translation, splitting up the terms "God" and "Savior,"
|
|
resulting in the phraseology, "our God and our Savior, Jesus Christ,"
|
|
as if two persons, God the Father, and Jesus Christ the Savior, are
|
|
being referred to, when this is not the case. Now, on page 370, with
|
|
reference to Titus 2:13, Riplinger says, "All Greek texts have the
|
|
wording of the KJV, "God and our Savior Jesus Christ." None render
|
|
it as the new versions do." And on pag e 371 she wrote, "2
|
|
Thessalonians 1:12, Titus 2:13, and 2 Peter 1:1 are called
|
|
hendiadies, from the Greek hen dia dyoin, `one by two.'
|
|
Grammatically it is the `expression of an idea by two nouns connected
|
|
by and, instead of by a noun and an adjunct. It would be like
|
|
introducing one's spouse as `my wife and best friend.'" In reality,
|
|
the reason that the NIV and NASB and others accurately translate
|
|
these passages as "our God and Savior Jesus Christ" is due to what is
|
|
known as Granville Sharp's Rule. Without going into detai l, the KJV
|
|
translators wer e not aware of this grammatical feature of koine
|
|
Greek, and hence did not translate these passages accurately. The
|
|
Jehovah's Witnesses mistranslate these passages purposefully, of
|
|
course, for obvious reasons. Now, if I were looking for
|
|
conspiracies, I'd have to identify Gayle as a secret Jehovah's
|
|
Witness trying to infiltrate the Church. Of course, I know that is
|
|
not the case, and would never make such an argument, yet this is the
|
|
argument presented throughout her book.
|
|
|
|
On at least three different occasions our author attacks Palmer's
|
|
belief in the sovereignty of God in saving mankind. Twice she
|
|
mis-cites his words, first on page 2, then again in the exact same
|
|
form on page 231. Here is her quote from the very beginning of her
|
|
book on page 2: "The NIV's chief editor vaunts his version's heresy
|
|
saying: `This [his NIV] shows the great error that is so prevalent
|
|
today in some orthodox Protestant circles, namely the error that
|
|
regeneration depends upon faith...and that in o rder to be born again
|
|
man must first accept Jesus as Savior." Now, I agree wholeheartedly
|
|
with Dr. Palmer. Men must be made new creatures by the Holy Spirit
|
|
of God before they can have true, saving faith. Romans 8:5-9 teaches
|
|
this with glaring clarity in any translation. And it was, in fact,
|
|
this belief in salvation by grace, free, unmerited grace, that
|
|
spawned the Reformation itself. It is Gayle Riplinger who here
|
|
denies the Protestant heritage. But eve n in doing this, she
|
|
misrepresents Palmer yet on ce again! Riplinger says that Palmer is
|
|
talking about the NIV. He is not! The NIV is nowhere mentioned on
|
|
page 83 of the book being cited. Hence, her whole point is based
|
|
upon the insertion of the little phrase "his NIV" where it does not
|
|
belong! Anyone who would read Palmer's work would shake their head
|
|
in disbelief at the complete misuse of his words by Riplinger.
|
|
|
|
Gayle's Pelagianism comes out in yet another misrepresentation of
|
|
Palmer on page 90. She writes, "His denial of free will is seen in
|
|
his NIV. He says his change in 1 Thessalonians 1:4 `suggests the
|
|
opposite' of the KJV." When you look up the reference, you read the
|
|
following, "1 Thessalonians 1:4: `your election of God.' In the days
|
|
of the KJV this was a way of saying `your election by God.' As it is
|
|
today, the KJV suggests the opposite of what the Greek really says.
|
|
NIV has `he has chosen you.'" Not ice that Palmer says nothing like
|
|
what Riplinger says; and, Palmer happens to be 100% right, as anyone
|
|
who has examined the passage well knows.
|
|
|
|
This topic was so important for Riplinger that she addressed it a
|
|
third time, on page 231. Here she says that the same quotation given
|
|
above is so "scandalous and sacriligious" that it will "stun and
|
|
shock the reader." One has to wonder what Gayle would say about
|
|
the
|
|
following quotation from Martin Luther:
|
|
|
|
"If any man ascribe ought of his salvation, even the least part, to
|
|
the free will of man, he knows nothing of grace, and has not learned
|
|
Jesus Christ."
|
|
|
|
But beyond this, it is obvious that Gayle attacks Palmer's theology,
|
|
and by extension, the theology of the Protestant Reformation, on the
|
|
basis of ignorance of it's tenets. She asks, "If he denies faith and
|
|
each individual's responsibility to accept Jesus as his Savior, what
|
|
does he offer in its place?" Possibly if Gayle would read Dr.
|
|
Palmer's book she would discover what he was really saying? I'd be
|
|
glad to send her a copy of Dr. Palmer's works, or other books such as
|
|
R.C. Sproul's Chosen by God or J.I . Packer's Sovereignty and
|
|
Evangelism, or my own God's Sovereign Grace, if she would like to
|
|
discover what it is that was taught by the Reformers.
|
|
|
|
James>>>
|
|
|
|
|
|
--- Maximus 2.01wb
|
|
* Origin: Pros Apologian: Toward a Defense of the Faith (8:7007/2)
|
|
SEEN-BY: 1015/0 50 3200/207 7007/0 2
|
|
===========================================================================
|
|
BBS: Christian Central
|
|
Date: 04-01-94 (20:43) Number: 5721
|
|
From: ROBERT MCKAY Refer#: NONE
|
|
To: CHUCK GREEN Recvd: NO
|
|
Subj: NEW HERE Conf: (170) E-kjv Ccn
|
|
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
|
CG>He is pretty calm, come to think of it. He's not one for long
|
|
threads,
|
|
CG>though. He presents his opinion, labels his opponents un-Christian,
|
|
CG>then quits.
|
|
|
|
Well, shoot, that would convince me. <g>
|
|
|
|
___
|
|
X QMPro 1.01 11-1111 X I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy.
|
|
--Rom. 9:15
|
|
|
|
--- Maximus 2.01wb
|
|
* Origin: Pros Apologian: Toward a Defense of the Faith (8:7007/2)
|
|
SEEN-BY: 1015/0 50 3200/207 7007/0 2
|
|
===========================================================================
|
|
BBS: Christian Central
|
|
Date: 04-02-94 (22:16) Number: 7051
|
|
From: BERNIE WILT Refer#: NONE
|
|
To: ALL Recvd: NO
|
|
Subj: 1611 AV Conf: (170) E-kjv Ccn
|
|
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
|
Greetings All!
|
|
|
|
I have not read much here, but plan to, in the near future. I am
|
|
wondering if any of you that contend for the KJV ONLY have a REAL KJV
|
|
Bible?
|
|
|
|
~Bernie Wilt~
|
|
|
|
... FReq: "REALKJV" (without quotes) for information/ad
|
|
|
|
|
|
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
|
|
--- Renegade v1-2 Exp
|
|
* Origin: PIONEER INTERNATIONAL BBS =Mesa, AZ= (602)649-2647 (8:1015/0)
|
|
SEEN-BY: 1015/0 50 3200/207 7007/0 2
|