497 lines
16 KiB
Plaintext
497 lines
16 KiB
Plaintext
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APPLE II MUSIC & SOUND FORUM CONFERENCE LOG
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November 6, 1991 10 PM ET
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Topic: GS Music Programs - Noisetracker and MusicStudio
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Forum Leader: Joyce Madden (AFL JoyceM),
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Forum Assistant: Gene Koh (AFA Gene)
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Forum Consultants: Greg Dib (ELECTMUSIC), Ed Rosenblatt
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(AFC Eddie), Lindsay Hough (LindsayGS)
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Copyright (c) 1991 America Online
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All Rights Reserved
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=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
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AFC Eddie Greg, how's your MS problem coming?
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ELECTMUSIC Need further consulting... Joyce :)
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AFL JoyceM What is the MS problem, Greg?
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ELECTMUSIC Have you used the D5 for Midi Input into MStudio?
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I seem to get the default note value for any rhythm I input?
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ie. If I have a quarter note selected and play a whole note...
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only a quarter note will appear on the screen
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AFL JoyceM Rhythm from the D5 disk or your own rhythm input?
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ELECTMUSIC My own rhythm
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AFL JoyceM Hm....I will check that out. Don't remember it being a problem
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ELECTMUSIC Yet my other Midi instrument works fine
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AFL JoyceM I know I didn't have problems with the Yamaha. But will re-check
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the D5.
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ELECTMUSIC Yep, I didn't have any problem with my Yamaha either
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It was just with the Roland
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AFL JoyceM Eddie, do you have problems with your Roland and MStudio?
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AFC Eddie No, not at all.
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ELECTMUSIC Eddie... do you have any Yamaha equipment?
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AFC Eddie I've used it with MStudio rarely, but without problem.
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No Yamaha stuff, sorry.
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AFL JoyceM Dan, we we will be discussing what is in our libraries tonight and
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any other subject that arises.
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AFC Eddie Bet Gene knows the answer to this one!
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ELECTMUSIC Yea, I think so...Gene, quick question for ya
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AFA Gene ok :)
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ELECTMUSIC I tried to Midi in a D5 into MStudio and all it would display is
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the default rhythm value...Example: If a quarter note was
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selcted and I played a whole note it would only display a
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quarter note. Any ideas?
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AFA Gene This is a problem with the MIDI signal that the D-5 sends. There's
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really nothing that can be done about it that I know of. I've
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used my D-5 that way since I first got it, and I've never been
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able to find a way to get around the problem. It only occurs with
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Music Studio, no other program.
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ELECTMUSIC Its alos curious that Mwriter works fine. Ok... Thats good new..
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well sort of
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AFL JoyceM Greg, what happens if you you select an 8th note...I remember
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doing that to solve a problem that I can't remember now why :)
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ELECTMUSIC I was wondering if it was the computer or the setup
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AFA Gene Actually, it's probably a problem with Music Studio's algorithm
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for processing MIDI data, because as far as I know the D-5's MIDI
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functions are 100% compatible with the industry standard.
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ELECTMUSIC It will only display an eighth notethen, Joyce
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AFC Eddie Then why no problem with the Yamaha or the D20?
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ELECTMUSIC The Problem was when MStudio was developed the Midi standard was
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still DEVELOPING :)
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AFA Gene Dunno. No problem with any other commonly-used keyboard, either.
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Strange.
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AFL JoyceM Does a MIDI driver change this problem?
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ELECTMUSIC Gene, I have heard of a couple other people who had this problem,
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but its the first time it happened to me.
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AFC Eddie Are you using MS's MIDI driver?
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AFA Gene It's just something with MS (the actual code) and the D-5 that
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doesn't jive perfectly.
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ELECTMUSIC Yep, I agree Gene
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ELECTMUSIC Remember when we had ALS online and they explained that they send
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a Midi signal out to make sure an instrument is hooked up :)
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Thats what caused Joyce's Yamaha to have MStudio crash
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AFL JoyceM Yes....and I had one devil of a time getting the two to speak
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(with the Yamaha) and had to count before I turned on the
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Yamaha...16 - 20 seconds actually. It was a real hit and miss
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proposition.
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AFC Eddie A & L ?
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ELECTMUSIC Audio Light and Sound
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AFC Eddie Thanks.
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AFL JoyceM Greg...I will try it out...also going to look at a note I have
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about that..
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AFC Eddie What did they produce?
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ELECTMUSIC Developed MStudio for Activision
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AFC Eddie Oh! I knew the name was familiar!
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ELECTMUSIC That was the golden age of the GS :)
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AFL JoyceM Remember, that Big Red Computer Club is soon to release
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MusicStudio.. :)
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AFC Eddie BRCC's add for Noisetracker talks about a manual!
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ELECTMUSIC How about a discussion on NTracker
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AFL JoyceM A manual for NoiseTracker,Eddie?
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AFC Eddie That's what the add says. The program, a song disk and manual =
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$10.
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AFL JoyceM Where did you see the ad, Eddie?
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AFC Eddie The latest InCider. Dec. issue. Page 67.
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AFL JoyceM Oh, haven't gotten my inCider yet.
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AFL JoyceM We will have BRCC here in AMS in January maybe
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AFC Eddie Lots of good Apple II stuff in this issue. A complete index of
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Apple II software released in 1991.
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ELECTMUSIC Yea, I thought I detected a slow change over
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AFL JoyceM Finally!
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ELECTMUSIC Hey, Maybe I might renew my subsription
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AFC Eddie I've heard a rumor that it will go back to all Apple II.
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AFL JoyceM Like that rumor!
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ELECTMUSIC I do like the glossy look...if it goes back to An Apple II mag
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AFC Eddie I really like GS+ magazine.
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ELECTMUSIC But. its not glossy :)
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AFC Eddie One of these days I'll get around to writing a MIDI article for
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it. It's never had that.
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AFL JoyceM Great, Eddie.
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AFC Eddie They asked me for one.
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AFL JoyceM Let's talk about NoiseTracker if you all want...or whatever.
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Still looking for my Ms notes
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ELECTMUSIC Yea... I have a few questions Whats the story with the sound in
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Ram? How do they get it there
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AFA Gene You know the 64K DOC RAM? NoiseTracker stores its instruments in
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regular RAM, therefore instead of a 64K limit, the limit is your
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free memory! (so if you're someone like joyce, you can have a 4
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meg grand piano sample!)
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ELECTMUSIC But, I also see instruments in DOC Ram, Gene
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AFC Eddie Why didn't anyone think of that before?
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AFL JoyceM :)
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AFA Gene NoiseTracker tries to place the instruments in the DOC ram when it
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asks that question "Should 'I' try to move sounds into the
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DOCRAM" or something like that. You can actually hit "cancel" on
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that dialog and nothing will matter, cuz the program reads from
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the system RAM for those songs. (You can hit the button labeled
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"Ensoniq Soundram" and it will flip to system ram -- suddenly
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you'll see like 12 instruments when only 4 could fit in the DOCram
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AFC Eddie Thanks!
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AFA Gene the cool thing is that MOD files have been around on the Amiga for
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a loooong time, so there are a lot of good ones available. (there
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are also a lot of duds too tho.)
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ELECTMUSIC Gene...who and how is it determined the instruments go into Doc
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Ram The user? or the composer
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AFA Gene The program. :) Those music files were not made for the GS,
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remember :)
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AFL JoyceM Question. Can one create a MOD file without having an already
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made file from say an Amiga?
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ELECTMUSIC Oooooohhhh....I see, it only works with Amiga files
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AFA Gene Nope. Once the "Load" and "save" options are implemented, we might
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be able to.
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AFC Eddie Can you compose on NT, as in SS?
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AFA Gene Well, it also works with regular NoiseTracker files, but so far
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there aren't that many and they were all made from within
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NoiseTracker, so it was just a matter of loading the insts
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straight into DOCram.
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AFC Eddie How about SS songs on NT?
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ELECTMUSIC Are the Amiga sound files ASIF? Yep, I tried SSMith into NT and it
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worked fine and SSmith used ASIF
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AFA Gene Dunno what format the amiga sound files are. Jim probably knows
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more about the MOD file structure than I. Yep, NT is made to
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handle SS directly.
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AFC DYAJim MOD's are their own format - not asif or aiff...But I have heard
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that AIFF is popular on the amiga, perhaps the instruments that
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are combined in MODs were once individual AIFF's.
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ELECTMUSIC Could we go back to MOd's on the Amiga for a second....
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AFL JoyceM Sooo, we need a conversion program to convert SS, SL, etc files to
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MOD or NT?
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AFA Gene GMTA Jim, just about to say that.
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AFC DYAJim We need several conversion programs right now :)
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NT -> SS (if no ram based insts)
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NT INST -> ASIF/AIFF
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ELECTMUSIC On the Amiga... what do they use to reproduce sound? Also... is
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the GS capable of better sound with the Ensoniq?
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AFL JoyceM Could one just rename the file type to MOD and see what happens,
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say with a MIDI file? or the like?
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AFC DYAJim I doubt you can load midi files into nt :)
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AFL JoyceM Gene, Greg...do you remember that program that Dennis was working
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on to do some conversions...wonder it that would work? it was a
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beta version and never was released?
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AFA Gene In either case Greg, you're dealing with digitized samples, so it
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would sound the same on either machine.... in fact, i'm not sure
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on this, but it might...scratch that... the songfiles would
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almost definitely sound a bit worse on the GS cuz they've gone
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thru a conversion process that I'm not sure is 100% accurate.
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ELECTMUSIC Is the Amiga 8 bit?
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AFC DYAJim amoeba = 65k
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AFC DYAJim How do you know they're converted? I've just heard lots that the
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fidelity of the amoeba music chip is slightly cleaner and
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clearer, but it can only do 4 oscs at once.
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AFA Gene I mean when NT loads them in, it's converting the crunched sound
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file format. (Not sure at all on this, just speculating)
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AFC DYAJim Crunched sound file format ?
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AFA Gene Whatever..... the mod :)
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ELECTMUSIC Ahhhh... So the Amiga has a an amoeba nusic chip...
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AFC DYAJim MODs aren't packed in any way to my knowledge
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AFC Eddie CFF, haven't you heard, Jim?
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AFC DYAJim CFF?
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AFC Eddie Crunched File Format!
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AFC DYAJim lol Eddie! :)
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AFA Gene There goes that theory, then... dunno... all I know is that some
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songs seem to sound clearer on the Amiga.
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ELECTMUSIC what music software is being used on the Amiga to create these
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files?
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AFC DYAJim I think it's the amoeba sound chip, Gene. Clearer and cleaner, but
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less powerful overall.
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AFA Gene Maybe they're comparing it to a standard GS without noise
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reduction. I'm sure with an Audio Animator's noise reduction the
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GS has to sound sharper (than the Amiga, I mean :)
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ELECTMUSIC Anyone know what music software is being used on the Amiga?
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AFC DYAJim I mean, you can play the same digital waveform on two different
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sound chips and chances are they'll play it slightly differently
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due to different things in the chips.
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ELECTMUSIC I am not too impressed with AAnimators quality Gene. They limit
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frequency response.
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AFA Gene I'm just talking about the noise reduction, not the digitizing
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greg
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AFA Gene Agreed Jim, which basically means the last 3 minutes of banter
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were complete gibberish. :)
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AFC DYAJim :)
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ELECTMUSIC I feel the best digitizing is FSound
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AFC DYAJim Too bad it went bye bye Greg :(
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AFL JoyceM And you can'g get Fsound anymore!
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AFA Gene I saw the logon.... weird, it said "COMPUTING's music and sound"
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as if the Forums were a magazine or something.
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ELECTMUSIC Isn't that the way...
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AFC Eddie Yes, Gene, I saw that in a previous AMS banner.
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ELECTMUSIC Soo... does anyone know what music software is creating these
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files on the Amiga?
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AFL JoyceM Weird, but no wyrm/banner? Sorry, Greg, I don't know.
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AFC DYAJim I don't have an amoeba so I don't know
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ELECTMUSIC Geez... some of the discussions in our forum seem be to from users
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that know both computer platforms, as if they can create these
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files and then port them over to the GS
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AFL JoyceM So right now there is no way to convert to MOD files unless you
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have an Amiga?
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Drib do any of you guys have a Sonic Blaster?
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ELECTMUSIC I have
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AFC Eddie Many of us, do, Drib.
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Drib figured, but I have to ask who
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AFC Eddie Got a problem with it?
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Drib Is it easy to digitize sounds>?
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ELECTMUSIC I really like the concept of RAM based instruments!
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AFC DYAJim IBM's can play MODs with soundblaster
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AFC Eddie Real easy, if you have a microphone.
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Drib I don't have one, but I want one, and am thinking about getting
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one.
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ELECTMUSIC Convenient is a better word
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Drib okay, any microphone will do right?
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AFC Eddie Yes, or another connection from your sound source to the
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Blaster.
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ELECTMUSIC OK, Jim that explains the interest MSDOS users have
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AFC DYAJim Yep.. they have to buy addn'l hardware to play 'em; we don't :)
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ELECTMUSIC :)
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Drib and Do the speakers that you plug into them need to be self
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powered?
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AFC Eddie Right, Jim!
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AFL JoyceM Another feather in the GS' hat!
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AFC Eddie No, Drib, Blaster gives them Plenty of power!
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Drib okay, guess I will go ahead and get one then
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ELECTMUSIC In summary then...
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AFA Gene Wondering... are there many Amiga users online wearing PCAO
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clothes?
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AFL JoyceM Great, Drib...and if you have problems, we are here to help you.
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AFC Eddie Drib, I love my Sonic Blaster. You can get one for $59!
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ELECTMUSIC only Amiga users can create the music and sound for Mod files
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Drib Eddie, where? New????
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AFL JoyceM $59 - where?
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AFC Eddie Preferred Computing. 1-800-327-7234. $59.95 that is. New.
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ELECTMUSIC we have NTracker to convert these files for Listening only
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AFA Gene Exactly, greg... in its current form it's best suited as a
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playback module.
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Drib software and all right?
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AFC Eddie Yes.
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AFL JoyceM Good questions, Greg....and we have to rely on others to give is
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these MOD files?
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Drib great! I found one for $75 used! that's way more
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AFL JoyceM The classical MOD file (can't remember its name) is good.
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AFA Gene If AO didn't screw up we could simply tell users to use keyword
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PMU and grab as many MOD files as they want.
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AFC DYAJim Exactly Gene..
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AFL JoyceM If one downloaded MOD files from, say an Amiga BBS, no conversions
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needed? but can they be put on a regular ProDOS disk? and the
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used with NT?
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AFA Gene Yep.
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AFC DYAJim I've downloaded MODs from an IBM bbs with no problems.
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AFL JoyceM Ah...we have a big Amiga BBS here....hm...now if I can just find
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the time :)
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ELECTMUSIC Its interesting the FTA saw the need for this... speculating
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why????
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AFL JoyceM Jim, you going to write a MOD conversion program for us? hint
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hint
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AFC DYAJim Not enough time ! :) Who knows, really .. but not till next year
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at least
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AFA Gene FTA's always been into the Amiga.... this is just their first
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major cross-over project.
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AFC DYAJim Convert what exactly tho?
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AFA Gene Nothing to convert with mod files, that's the beauty of it :)
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AFC DYAJim I think FTA released it to go against the commericialization of
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soundsmith
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AFL JoyceM Converting SS and SynthLAB files to NT/MOD files. I like players
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like NT, etc, but want to be able to compose files too.
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AFC DYAJim Compose with SS, import into NT.
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AFC Eddie Agreed, Joyce.
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AFL JoyceM Right, Jim.
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AFC Eddie SS is not really composing software. But maybe with MIDI...
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AFL JoyceM right
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AFC Eddie Then a conversion to NT might be something!
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ELECTMUSIC Jim... how will SndSmith allow for Ram Based instruments when
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converted into NT (in other words having a GS user break the 64k
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barrier DOCRAM)
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AFC DYAJim It won't. Lay down your midi in SS, then import to NT and add
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embellishments (I.E. up to 7 normal ram tracks)
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ELECTMUSIC SndSmith still limits the import of ASIF sounbd files to 64k,
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right? <---- Not a real sndsmith user
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AFC DYAJim Of course
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ELECTMUSIC Geez, I would like to see the Amiga Music software they use to
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create these Mod Files.
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AFC Eddie -----------------------LOG OFF-------------------------
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