1051 lines
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1051 lines
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NUMBER OF LINES: 999
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001=Usr:0 Null User 06/30/87 20:34 Msg:0 Call:0 Lines:19
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1$If you are in need of help, you need but ask...
|
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2$************************* INSTALLED: 28 AUG 89 ***************************
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3$Welcome to BWMS II (BackWater Message System II) Mike Day System operator
|
||
4$**************************************************************************
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||
5$GENERAL DISCLAIMER: BWMS II IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY INFORMATION
|
||
6$ PLACED ON THIS SYSTEM.
|
||
7$BWMS II was created as an electronic bill board. BWMS II is a privately
|
||
8$owned and operated system which is currently open for use by the general
|
||
9$public. No restrictions are placed on the use of the system. As the
|
||
10$system is privately owned, I retain the right to remove any and all
|
||
11$messages which I may find offensive. Because of the limited size of the
|
||
12$system, it will be periodically purged of messages (only 999 lines of data
|
||
13$can be saved). To leave a message, type 'ENTER'. Use ctrl/C to get out
|
||
14$the ENTER mode. The message is automatically stored. If after entering
|
||
15$the message you find you made a mistake, use the replace command to
|
||
16$replace the line. To exit from the system, type 'BYE' then hang up.
|
||
17$Type 'HELP' to see other commands that are available on the system.
|
||
18$**************************************************************************
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||
19$
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002=Usr:1 CISTOP MIKEY 08/28/89 23:28 Msg:4274 Call:23573 Lines:3
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20 Things are seldom what they seem, skim milk masquerades as cream.
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21 -- W.S. Gilbert
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22 ************************ disk #100.4 *********************************
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003=Usr:286 Jeff Marten 08/29/89 00:32 Msg:4275 Call:23576 Lines:8
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23
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24 Wow......I can see all the way to Yakima from up here.
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25
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26 -+|[ ThingFish ]|+-
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27 He's Baaaaaack
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28
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29 {+}{+}{+}{+}
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30
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004=Usr:219 Friar Mossback 08/29/89 08:18 Msg:4276 Call:23579 Lines:1
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31 Why would you want to see Yakima? I'ne been there, ther's no there there.
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005=Usr:84 Michael Miller j 08/29/89 09:16 Msg:4277 Call:23580 Lines:8
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32 &*&*&*&*'s
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33 The century mark... Wow. 100 archive disks after this. I have it on good
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34 authority that that is around 20 meg or more of backwater archives. Happy
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35 100th!
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36
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37 An Astral Dreamer
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38 &*&*&*&*'s
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39
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006=Usr:84 Michael Miller j 08/29/89 18:33 Msg:4278 Call:23589 Lines:14
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40 &*&*&*&*'s
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41
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42 Eventually Morton came to a fork in the road. One way was well traveled
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43 and maintained, while the one on the right was hardly a path. Without
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44 pausing he went right, mumbling to himself 'I took the road less traveled.'
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45
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46 The trees and grass on either side were almost uniformly a dull sickly
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47 green, and the entire place was nearly silent.
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48
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49 (Contributing as much as anybody else today.)
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50
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51 An Astral Dreamer
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52 &*&*&*&*'s
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53
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007=Usr:287 Ralph Steadman 08/29/89 21:52 Msg:4279 Call:23595 Lines:75
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54 696969696969
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55 HIGHER SPEEDS BRING MORE DEATHS:-8/28/89
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56 It's a national struggle of the will and the gas pedal that rages after
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57 states raised speed limits on certain sections of interstate highway to 65
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58 mph. Concern about just how fast U.S. residents should drive is increasing
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59 after preliminary evidence shows more people died in highway accidents as a
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60 result of the higher speed limit.
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61 More U.S. residents are wearing safety belts than ever before, but more
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62 aggressive promotion of the belts could push use even higher, a safety group
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63 said. Traffic Safety Now, reported Sunday that in states requiring use of the
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64 belts, 51 percent of motorists wear them. In states without laws, about 36
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65 percent of motorists wear them. Thirty-four states have seat-belt laws.
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66 With faster speeds come greater numbers of deaths, says the National
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67 Highway Traffic Safety Administration. The agency is expected to submit a
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68 formal report next month but preliminary 1988 figures show a 13 percent
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69 increase in deaths on rural interstates. NHTSA, like the Bush administration,
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70 says speed limits are the states' business.
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71 Two years ago, with the "energy crisis" long abated, Congress gave states
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72 permission to increase limits to 65 mph on rural interstates where surrounding
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73 population does not exceed 50,000. Within nine months, 38 states exercised the
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74 option. The result: 32,168 miles of interstate, roughly three-fourths of the
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75 44,328-mile system, were made eligible for 65 mph.
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76 Working with death reports from the first 38 states adopting the higher
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77 speed limit, the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety found that 1988
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78 traffic fatalities on rural highways in those states increased 30 percent
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79 compared to 1987. "It's a much greater increase in deaths than would have been
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80 expected if speed limits hadn't been changed," says groups spokesman Brian
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81 O'Neill.
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82 There is a growing perception that the federal speed limit might be the
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83 most blatantly abused law since Prohibition. About one in every nine drivers,
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84 or about 20 million U.S. residents, says they own a radar detector, generating
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85 gross sales estimated at about $300 million yearly. Connecticut, one of 10
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86 states still enforcing 55 mph, found 85 percent of motorists were exceeding
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87 that limit.
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88 In 1984, the National Research Council, an arm of the National Academies
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89 of Science and Engineering, said states spent about $512 million annually to
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90 enforce 55 mph on about 35 percent to 40 percent of all moving traffic. Other
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91 findings: 52,000 to 82,000 fewer injuries a year and about $122 million to
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92 $240 million less in medical, legal and vehicle repair bills.
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93 MOST CRASHES ARE DRIVER ERRORS:-8/28/89
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94 Nearly 21 million auto-related accidents, resulting in 48,700 deaths and
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95 1.8 million disabling injuries, occurred in 1987, the National Safety Council
|
||
96 reports. Most, 67 percent, were caused by driver error. In a recent survey of
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97 500 motorists commissioned by Valvoline Oie1l Company 33 percent wrongly said a
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98 aflashing red traffic light meant "proceed with caution."
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||
99 Debate continues to rage after states raised speed limits on certain
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100 sections of interstate highway to 65 mph. But concern about just how fast U.S.
|
||
101 residents should drive is sure to intensify over preliminary evidence that
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102 more people have died in highway accidents as a result of the higher speed
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103 limit.
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104 In 1974, in the wake of the Arab oil embargo, Congress imposed a 55 mph
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105 limit nationwide; the standard was made permanent the next year. Two years ago
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106 Congress gave states permission to increase limits to 65 mph on rural
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107 interstates where surrounding population does not exceed 50,000. Within nine
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108 months, 38 states exercised the option; Georgia and Virginia did so just last
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||
109 year.
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||
110 Two years ago 32,168 miles of interstate, roughly three-fourths of the
|
||
111 44,328-mile system, were made eligible for 65 mph. Later, another 2,200 miles
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||
112 of similar road in 16 states was added on a trial basis. But faster speeds
|
||
113 brought more deaths, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration says.
|
||
114 Preliminary 1988 figures show a 13 percent increase in deaths on rural
|
||
115 interstates.
|
||
116 There is a growing perception that the federal speed limit might be the
|
||
117 most blatantly abused law since Prohibition. Connecticut, one of 10 states
|
||
118 still enforcing 55 mph, found earlier this year that 85 percent of motorists
|
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119 were exceeding that limit. The state could lose federal highway money if that
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120 scofflaw figures holds up through 1989.
|
||
121 In Pennsylvania, where 1,184 miles of eligible interstate remain at 55
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122 mph, the Legislature considered going to 65 this spring. The debate bogged
|
||
123 down when somebody suggested banning radar detectors. About one in every nine
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||
124 drivers, or about 20 million U.S. residents, acknowledges owning a radar
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||
125 detector, generating gross sales estimated at about $300 million yearly.
|
||
126
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||
127 696969696969696969
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||
128
|
||
008=Usr:277 Schizo 08/30/89 00:19 Msg:4280 Call:23600 Lines:43
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129 !!! @!@! !!!! !! @@!! @@@
|
||
130 Old glory, also know as pancake-head, was strolling in the forrest one day
|
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131 when he heard the distant call of a paratrouper. Remembering is grade school
|
||
132 training, he quickly ran to the principal's house only to find the house
|
||
133 empty. It seems that the principal had died some years earlier and hadn't left
|
||
134 a cent to poor pancake-head. Feeling hyper depressed, as he tended to feel
|
||
135 after discovering the neglegence of the dead, he decided that the next best
|
||
136 thing to do was to releive himself on the nearest public building. On this
|
||
137 particular day, his urine was a light pink color presumably from thinking
|
||
138 about how stupid the proccess of voting in the united states really is.
|
||
139 Pancake-head soon finished off the building, only to discover that it was
|
||
140 schedualed for daily maintanance. Damn he thought, now I'll have to go back
|
||
141 to grandma's place and drink more glue before I can do this again!
|
||
142 all this trouble would have gone unnoticed if it hadn't been for the
|
||
143 fact that an extra-terrestrial named skinhead hadn't been looking in on the
|
||
144 doings on planet Earth that day. Well, skinhead thought, theses earth people
|
||
145 sure are ****ed up. I'm gonna have to get down to earth and show 'em how we
|
||
146 do things on the planet glats. So he hopped into the one way transmat beam,
|
||
147 not realizing that Earth technolegy at that time was only capable of
|
||
148 trans-beaming to nearby tourist traps, and then only if they had a sufficient
|
||
149 amount of cash to purchase more stuff than would go back through the transmat
|
||
150 beam at one time.
|
||
151 Pancake-head was on his way to Grandma's house when his leg broke in the
|
||
152 middle of nowhere. It seemed obvious to pancake-head that trouble was in his'
|
||
153 future. At that instant, skinhead appeard due to a severe malfuntion in
|
||
154 the transmat beam. The malfunction also caused skinhead to mutate into an
|
||
155 orian slave girl (the green kind as seen on star trek!). well, as you can
|
||
156 guess, Pancake-head was overwhelmed with lust. Skinhead didn't have a chance
|
||
157 as pancake-head's body instinctivly lept 20 feet in the air and landed in the
|
||
158 correct region of skinhead's body to begin mating procedures. The force of
|
||
159 pancake-head's landing knocked skinhead out cold. after finishing the task,
|
||
160 pancake-head lay dead upon skinhead.
|
||
161 It was some hours later when skinhead awoke from the concussion, only to
|
||
162 find several large dents in his titanium lined underwear, and Pancake head
|
||
163 lying atop him. skinhead decided not to try to reform earth has he originally
|
||
164 set out to do. Instead, realizing the tremendous earning potential an
|
||
165 Orian slave girl has in this part of the Galexy, skinhead married several
|
||
166 earth men in succession and killed them by letting them try to mate though
|
||
167 his titanium underwear. This action led to several million dollars being
|
||
168 given to skinhead as a result of the wills left by the now deceased and
|
||
169 sterile husbands.
|
||
170 In short, skinhead lived happily ever after.
|
||
171 !!! @!@! !!!! !! @@!! @@@
|
||
009=Usr:84 Michael Miller j 08/30/89 08:11 Msg:4281 Call:23606 Lines:15
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||
172 &*&*&*&*'s
|
||
173 To those that don't like the news,
|
||
174 1. We never seem to hear from you, unless you are bitching about the news.
|
||
175 2. Not all of us have the time or money to get this stuff elsewhere, so
|
||
176 its new to us.
|
||
177 3. when Whomever stops posting that stuff backwater grounds to a halt, as
|
||
178 much as two days pass before anything is entered.
|
||
179
|
||
180 leading to
|
||
181 4. If you want me to come out against the news then start contributing
|
||
182 yourselves. ANYTHING is better then NOTHING.
|
||
183
|
||
184 An Astral Dreamer (Feeling cantankerous this morning, and not able to spell)
|
||
185 &*&*&*&*'s
|
||
186
|
||
010=Usr:33 Mike Stanfill 08/30/89 11:33 Msg:4282 Call:23608 Lines:44
|
||
187 /*/*/*/*/*/*/*
|
||
188 > SWOB:
|
||
189 > Hate to tell you this, but multivalued logic systems have been around
|
||
190 > for a long time.
|
||
191
|
||
192 I realize this. Ternary logic problems are indeed fun, but to be
|
||
193 meaningful they require a set of circumstances where three values
|
||
194 may occur. I do not see truth and falsehood as having a third value,
|
||
195 (I don't think anybody does) and that was my point. Facts are either
|
||
196 true or false, never anything else. In short, I'm not saying that
|
||
197 logic cannot be applied to cases where more than two values are
|
||
198 possible, I'm only saying that truth and falsehood is not such
|
||
199 a case.
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||
200
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||
201 > They no more destroy the basis of logic, than using a base
|
||
202 > other than 10 destroys the basis of arithmetic.
|
||
203
|
||
204 True. Unfortunately, multi-valued logic can be appropriate or
|
||
205 inappropriate to a given problem. With varied bases, the answer
|
||
206 is still the same, but with varied logic values you make assumptions
|
||
207 about the data beforehand. If the quartic/quintic system of logic
|
||
208 presented had come up with the same answers as the binary, I would
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||
209 not have any disagreement with its usage.
|
||
210
|
||
211 > Also "This sentence is false" is not a paradox in *any* logic system!
|
||
212 > There's usually a chapter on this sor of thing in any good book on symbolic
|
||
213 > logic. The only way it looks like a paradox is if you confuse the langauge
|
||
214 > and the meta-language.
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||
215
|
||
216 I considered this problem when trying to think of an actual
|
||
217 impossible situation. Doesn't the meta-language only come
|
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218 into play with blanket statements about the whole group, such
|
||
219 as the proverbial Sicilian who says 'All Sicilians are liars'?
|
||
220 'This sentence is false' is a self-referential ("This"), so I
|
||
221 figured it was outside the realm of the meta-language. Forgive
|
||
222 me if I was wrong. My point is only that something cannot be
|
||
223 both true and false.
|
||
224
|
||
225 "Sometimes the beauty of the world is so overwhelming. I just want
|
||
226 to throw back my head and gargle. Just gargle and gargle, and I _
|
||
227 don't care who hears me, because I am beautiful." /#)
|
||
228 -Jack Handey, "Deep Thoughts" n n n (#/
|
||
229 / ~~~ ~~~ \/
|
||
230 */*/*/*/*/*/*/ -swob (a Self-Willed Orange Blancmange) /___/____\__\
|
||
011=Usr:287 Ralph Steadman 08/30/89 14:58 Msg:4283 Call:23611 Lines:14
|
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231 ...................................................
|
||
232 As she stood there, trying to decide the best course of action, Friar spoke:
|
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233 "The is no need to run away. No one will harm you. At least no one I've
|
||
234 seen so far. There are those who seem to thrive on gore, but not I, or (I
|
||
235 think) those following me." She thought about his words. She thought of her
|
||
236 mission. She thought of her safety. "Do you remember where the pond lies?"
|
||
237 she asked. Friar paused, a look crossed his face as if an old wound had been
|
||
238 laid open again. The others were within hearing distance now. They seemed to
|
||
239 hesitate, as if they weren't sure they weren't intruding. As if their
|
||
240 curiosity had taken control of their bodies, and they found themselves drawn to
|
||
241 this couple, almost beyond their control. Before anyone else could speak,
|
||
242 Friar broke the tension....
|
||
243 ......................................................
|
||
244
|
||
012=Usr:4 Milchar 08/30/89 18:45 Msg:4284 Call:23615 Lines:7
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245 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
|
||
246 Thanks for the memories, O Man of Little Parity (if any). 'Twas truly
|
||
247 a pleasant night.
|
||
248 And now there is a new Keeper of the Archives, by far the easiest copy
|
||
249 ever made. Of course, he had to find a partition with enough free
|
||
250 space left... :-)
|
||
251 ++++++++++++++++ Milch ++++++++++++++++ August 30, 1989 +++++++++++++
|
||
013=Usr:368 Nemesis Warlock 08/30/89 20:14 Msg:4285 Call:23617 Lines:6
|
||
252 :::::=====:::::=====:::::=====:::::=====:::::=====:::::=====:::::=====:::::====
|
||
253 Friar and Ms. '...' Border: I noted the last entry of Ms. '...' with a bit of
|
||
254 confusion. Last I checked, The Cloaked Man was confronting Friar on the Road.
|
||
255 If I MISSED something, forgive me, but if that is so, an update would be
|
||
256 appreciated.
|
||
257 :::::=====:::::=====:::::=====:::::==Zephyr::=====:::::=====:::::=====:::::====
|
||
014=Usr:84 Michael Miller j 08/30/89 20:19 Msg:4286 Call:23618 Lines:6
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258 &*&*&*&*'s
|
||
259 Thats a problem with Multi-Authored stories. It's also half the fun.
|
||
260
|
||
261 An Astral Dreamer (What, no rebutals to my last entry?)
|
||
262 &*&*&*&*'s
|
||
263
|
||
015=Usr:379 Phoenix Polymorp 08/30/89 21:21 Msg:4287 Call:23620 Lines:10
|
||
264 THIS IS WORLD WATCH THREE>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>30-Aug-89
|
||
265 This is is a test of Network Zero. We're attempting to get the bugs out of our
|
||
266 up-link, down-link inter-phase....Please stay tuned for news as we invent it,
|
||
267 here on World Watch Three.
|
||
268
|
||
269 This is only a test.
|
||
270
|
||
271 If this were an actual emergency, we wouldn't be conducting this test.
|
||
272 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
|
||
273 ^p
|
||
016=Usr:277 Schizo 08/30/89 23:05 Msg:4288 Call:23625 Lines:2
|
||
274 I lurked... It's no fair looking at the "privlaged" information either,
|
||
275 it would completely ruin the spirit of this message!! So don't do it!!
|
||
017=Usr:287 Ralph Steadman 08/31/89 00:16 Msg:4289 Call:23629 Lines:62
|
||
276 696969696969
|
||
277 JUDGE FINES ABORTION PROTESTERS:-8/30/89
|
||
278 Twelve members of Operation Rescue were fined $10,000 each Tuesday and
|
||
279 ordered to pay $111,000 to lawyers for groups that advocate abortion rights
|
||
280 for violating a court order against blockading women's clinics in Southern
|
||
281 California. Their lawyer said blockades were necessary to save babies. But
|
||
282 U.S. District Judge A. Wallace Tashima called the defendants "hypocrites."
|
||
283 DAUGHTER'S RAPE JAILS MOM:-8/30/89
|
||
284 A Detroit mother of four was sent to prison for life Tuesday for letting
|
||
285 her 13-year-old daughter be raped as payment for crack cocaine. Susan Barbier,
|
||
286 29, sobbed as Judge James Rashid said she had "sunk to an intolerable level of
|
||
287 humanity." The girl was too shaken to make a statement asking the judge to
|
||
288 keep her mom locked up to protect her siblings, said her father, Michael Dare.
|
||
289 Where WERE the right-to-lifers when they were needed?
|
||
290
|
||
291 DEBATE - CHILD CARE USA TODAY'S OPINION:
|
||
292 No mother, no father should have to pass up a good job because there's no
|
||
293 one to care for their children. No child should be left alone before or after
|
||
294 school. No parent should have to worry all day about the safety of the child
|
||
295 dropped off for care on the way to work. Solving the problem won't be cheap.
|
||
296 But child care is one of the best investments we can make.
|
||
297 OTHER VIEWS:
|
||
298 TOTTIE ELLIS, vice president of the Eagle Forum and a free-lance writer:
|
||
299 Children belong to their parents and not to the government. Parents should
|
||
300 delay their wants, realizing a child is more valuable than cars, TVs or other
|
||
301 material objects.
|
||
302 JEFF RIGGENBACH, free-lance writer and broadcaster: We should not ask
|
||
303 government to "do something." ... We should demand that it undo what it has
|
||
304 done in the past. If our elected officials really want to help us out of the
|
||
305 current child-care crisis, they should begin by backing off.
|
||
306 PRESIDENT BUSH: "We must put our trust in parents, not in expanded
|
||
307 bureaucracies."
|
||
308 SEN. ORRIN G. HATCH, R-Utah: "I started looking at the statistics and the
|
||
309 facts, and when you do, you ask `What are we doing to our families?' You've
|
||
310 got to be concerned about the parents who just don't know what to do."
|
||
311 NATIONAL GOVERNORS' ASSOCIATION TASK FORCE ON CHILDREN: "The federal
|
||
312 government can lead best by example, beginning by developing a coherent
|
||
313 national strategy to support families and their children."
|
||
314 OKLAHOMA CITY, OKLA., Robert H. Alexander Jr., 38, lawyer: "The best day
|
||
315 care is not one type, but a range of options that best suits each family. That
|
||
316 could mean government-sponsored day care or private-sector day care."
|
||
317 VISALIA, CALIF., Norma Kemper, 63, retired teacher: "I think the old-
|
||
318 fashioned way of staying at home is the best kind, if families can afford it.
|
||
319 If not, then day-care centers that are well-staffed, at good facilities and
|
||
320 affordable are fine. I'm not so sure the government should get involved in day
|
||
321 care. It gets into so much and then things go haywire."
|
||
322 ARLINGTON, VA., Sam Marsh, 34, outreach coordinator: "The best day care
|
||
323 would be the mother taking care of her own child. But that's not feasible in
|
||
324 every situation. The government should help in some way. I like President
|
||
325 Bush's proposal for a tax credit to offset the cost for day care. Maybe that's
|
||
326 not the best we can do right now, but at least it's a start."
|
||
327 DAUGHTER'S RAPE JAILS MOM:-8/30/89
|
||
328 A Detroit mother of four was sent to prison for life Tuesday for letting
|
||
329 her 13-year-old daughter be raped as payment for crack cocaine. Susan Barbier,
|
||
330 29, sobbed as Judge James Rashid said she had "sunk to an intolerable level of
|
||
331 humanity." The girl was too shaken to make a statement asking the judge to
|
||
332 keep her mom locked up to protect her siblings, said her father, Michael Dare.
|
||
333
|
||
334 696969696969696969
|
||
335
|
||
336 to |||||====== , or whatever.... you must have missed something, or mis-read.
|
||
337
|
||
018=Usr:29 The Bard 08/31/89 16:06 Msg:4290 Call:23640 Lines:35
|
||
338 SWOB:
|
||
339 Sorry, but True and False are the endpoints of a continum. I doubt it
|
||
340 is possible to make a True statement about the real world, except possibly
|
||
341 mathematically.
|
||
342 Remember, "What is Truth?" goes back a long way.
|
||
343 As for the metalanguage, it *has* to come in in any "self-referential"
|
||
344 sentence. The sentence is just symbols, parsed according to the rules of the
|
||
345 language. If the language is self-consistent, then the sentence has a truth
|
||
346 value. But that value doesn't depend on the *meaning* of the sysmbols.
|
||
347 <this sentence> <is> <false>.
|
||
348 <x> <is> <y>.
|
||
349 <this sentence> is a symbol. <false> is a symbol.
|
||
350 <This sentence> is not The Sentence In Question. <false> is not False,
|
||
351 which is a possible result of parsing The Sentence In Question.
|
||
352 A good example is the BASIC statement: A=A+1. By the rules of mathematics
|
||
353 this would be a false statement. By the rules of BASIC it results in the value
|
||
354 of A changing. The "this sentence is false" paradox is equivalent to looking
|
||
355 at the BASIC statement and declaring it a paradox!
|
||
356 "This sentence is false" is either a nonsenical bit of English, or it
|
||
357 is a collection of symbols to be logically evaluated. In the first case, it
|
||
358 isn't anything but nonsense. In the second case, it is just symbols, and self-
|
||
359 reference isn't allowed.
|
||
360
|
||
361 BTW, if you want examples of "multi-value logic" in the real world, ask a
|
||
362 scientist about "degrees of confidence". You have a range from False to true
|
||
363 with stops along the way at various degrees of "probably true" and "probably
|
||
364 false". Note the difference between *facts* (ie reality) and *statements about
|
||
365 those facts*. Facts are either true or false. Statements about reality have
|
||
366 degrees of truth. Note also that a "fact" is a wondrously complex thing.
|
||
367 "Water boils at 100 degrees C" is not a fact. "Pure H2O boils at 100 degrees
|
||
368 C at standard atmospheric pressure" is a lot closer to being a fact, but
|
||
369 there are still loopholes that have to be closed. ("pure" and "boils" both need
|
||
370 some work.."
|
||
371 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Bard~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
|
||
372@off
|
||
019=Usr:286 Jeff Marten 09/01/89 01:43 Msg:4291 Call:23654 Lines:97
|
||
373
|
||
374
|
||
375 {+}{+}{+}{+}
|
||
376
|
||
377 -|- F I S H N E W S -|-
|
||
378 -|- EDITORIAL -|-
|
||
379
|
||
380 STRANGE JUSTICE IN CHARLOTTE : THE LORD REALLY DOES WORK IN
|
||
381
|
||
382 MYSTERIOUS WAYS
|
||
383
|
||
384 By ThingFish
|
||
385
|
||
386
|
||
387 It's been quite an uplifting week in the news. The twin
|
||
388 spectacle of Leona Helmsley and Jim Bakker being whipped like
|
||
389 dogs and ground into sausage before our video eyes is the best
|
||
390 thing to come over CNN since Lloyd Bentson made Danny Quayle's
|
||
391 lower lip quiver.
|
||
392
|
||
393 The wretched saga of Jism Jim and Pancake Tammy, in
|
||
394 particular, has reached an all new level of hellish grief and
|
||
395 humiliation; or joyous rapture, depending on which side of the
|
||
396 drama you're on.
|
||
397
|
||
398 Bakker is up on some very heavy fraud and conspiracy charges -
|
||
399 24 counts in all - which could, in theory, net him 120 years in
|
||
400 prison and a 5 million dollar fine. The PTL "Partners" would
|
||
401 need to dig deep, yet again, to pay off a ticket like that - and
|
||
402 their numbers, and contributions, have been dwindling of late.
|
||
403 It's beginning to look like God Almighty may be sympathetic to
|
||
404 the D.A.'s point of view on this one.
|
||
405
|
||
406 On the third day of the trial in Charlotte, North Carolina,
|
||
407 former PTL vice-president Steve Nelson collapsed on the witness
|
||
408 stand - effectively bringing the proceedings to a halt while
|
||
409 urgent prayers from Bakker and an ambulance were summoned.
|
||
410 Somewhere around this time Jim Bakker began feeling a little
|
||
411 light in his loafers himself.
|
||
412
|
||
413 Day four never got off the ground at all. U.S. District
|
||
414 Judge Robert Potter suspended the trial, sent the jury home and
|
||
415 had Bakker committed for psychiatric testing amid baffling
|
||
416 reports that Bakker was found trying to stuff his head under a
|
||
417 couch in order to better escape the scary monsters he was busily
|
||
418 hallucinating. Bakker could be institutionalized for up to 60
|
||
419 days, and he began his journey to the nuthouse by assuming the
|
||
420 fetal position in the backseat of a federal automobile. The U.S.
|
||
421 marshals were not amused.
|
||
422
|
||
423 Some feel that this is all a ruse, a sham cooked up by Jim and
|
||
424 Tammy to take the heat off for a while so they can re-group. But
|
||
425 Bakker was led away IN HANDCUFFS and is now spending his days
|
||
426 and nights in a FEDERAL CORRECTIONS FACILITY. If this freak show
|
||
427 is all just calculated showboating, it can't be working out the
|
||
428 way the Bakkers had hoped. Surely a nice limo ride to a nice
|
||
429 private hospital would have been more what they had in mind.
|
||
430
|
||
431 Tammy Faye was quick to point out that they have been under a
|
||
432 lot of stress lately. Well, maybe so. There are a lot of people
|
||
433 up on charges in this country, but you don't often find them
|
||
434 cowering under the furniture, dodging giant flying manta rays
|
||
435 that are trying to bite their heads off. When a man in a suit
|
||
436 hits the deck to hide from something no one else can see, there
|
||
437 is usually something stonger than stress involved. Maybe Jim has
|
||
438 been dipping into the same diet pills that led Tammy to observe
|
||
439 in-flight monkeys frolicking on the wing of their Lear jet a few
|
||
440 years back. Perhaps these witness stand fainting spells and
|
||
441 early morning lapses into psychosis are a warning sign that the
|
||
442 all-night, hysteria fueled prayer/testimony rehearsal sessions
|
||
443 have reached a dangerously fevered pitch in the Bakker camp.
|
||
444
|
||
445 Another possibility is that what we are witnessing is a kind
|
||
446 of Divine Justice in action, and never mind any courts of law,
|
||
447 legal posturing, or sentencing guidelines. If Jim Bakker has
|
||
448 soiled the carpet of decent society, maybe this is God's way of
|
||
449 rubbing his nose in the steaming mess. And if Jim Bakker is a
|
||
450 bad doggie, you must admit that the Lord has a mighty good arm
|
||
451 with that rolled up newspaper.
|
||
452
|
||
453 Rather than smite him down with a thunderbolt from heaven,
|
||
454 maybe it is God's will that Jim Bakker writhe in secular agony,
|
||
455 that he be left twisting in the wind, fighting off the demons of
|
||
456 his tortured soul, with only his frightening wife, his failed
|
||
457 empire, his financial ruin, and his uncertain future to comfort
|
||
458 him.
|
||
459
|
||
460
|
||
461 Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord
|
||
462 (Romans 12:19)
|
||
463
|
||
464 -+|[ ThingFish ]|+-
|
||
465 Gimme That Ole Time Religion
|
||
466
|
||
467
|
||
468 {+}{+}{+}{+}
|
||
469
|
||
020=Usr:219 Friar Mossback 09/01/89 16:14 Msg:4292 Call:23668 Lines:3
|
||
470 Milch-
|
||
471 First 1.75 years are as long in paper as last quarter 83.
|
||
472 Friar
|
||
021=Usr:4 Milchar 09/01/89 17:48 Msg:4293 Call:23670 Lines:6
|
||
473 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
|
||
474 Quite a variance in the number of entries, eh? I believe BW's usage
|
||
475 chart peaks out in '85 sometime, when a 629-line-disk-a-day was common.
|
||
476 It took me quite a while to read the archives up to my appearance, a few
|
||
477 hours at a time....
|
||
478 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Milch ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
|
||
022=Usr:287 Ralph Steadman 09/01/89 19:00 Msg:4294 Call:23671 Lines:97
|
||
479 696969696969
|
||
480 YEAH THINGFISH !! Halleluiah !!BAKKER COMMITTED FOR TESTING:-9/
|
||
481 The tumultuous trial of Jim Bakker takes an extended, unscheduled Labor
|
||
482 Day break this week - with the disgraced televangelist committed to a
|
||
483 psychiatric facility. Bakker, charged with fraud and conspiracy, has been
|
||
484 hallucinating and hiding in his lawyer's office in the fetal position, a
|
||
485 defense psychiatrist told the Charlotte, N.C., federal court Thursday.
|
||
486 Bakker, reportedly, now has free run of the grounds at a federal prison.
|
||
487 Inmates have been warned by officials to watch their wallets closely.
|
||
488
|
||
489 LEE ATWATER, head of the National Republican Committee, had this comment: "I
|
||
490 think Jim Bakker should receive a full pardon for all the things he didn't do
|
||
491 wrong. After all, he was behaving in the manner we promote for all good
|
||
492 Republicans to behave. We are just sorry we weren't able to involve him with
|
||
493 all the good Lord's bounty we other Republicans received from HUD. I feel
|
||
494 that if we had a few more Jim Bakkers in this world, we could achive a
|
||
495 Republican majority in the House of Representatives again in our life time."
|
||
496
|
||
497 NEW IDEA FOR FIGHTING DRUGS:-9/1/89
|
||
498 An Idaho doctor has come up with a novel idea for combating drug use in
|
||
499 sports: pool the team's urine samples after competition. Dr. Fritz R. Dixon of
|
||
500 Boise suggested in Friday's Journal of the American Medical Association that
|
||
501 if the group sample was found to contain drugs, the team would lose the
|
||
502 competition, forcing teams - not individuals - to accept responsibility for
|
||
503 fighting drugs.
|
||
504 sounds like a good idea to me
|
||
505
|
||
506 consider this next one in light of the press reports of this country's first
|
||
507 involvement in Viet Nam ... Want to start a war to revive the economy? Send
|
||
508 the advisers first, then we'll need to support them with fighting soldiers,
|
||
509 then we'll need to send material......
|
||
510 TRAINERS ARRIVE IN COLOMBIA:-9/1/89
|
||
511 U.S. military trainers and equipment begin arriving in Colombia Thursday -
|
||
512 the first big U.S. role in that country's war against the cocaine kings. The
|
||
513 Pentagon said Thursday that up to 100 U.S. military personnel would train
|
||
514 Colombian police to use helicopters, small attack planes, weapons and C-130
|
||
515 cargo planes.
|
||
516 Of course, LEE ATWATER had a comment: "We did our damnest to get a war going
|
||
517 in Central America during the Reagan years, but the Contras were more intereste
|
||
518 in selling drugs than fighting, so we were forced to give up. Now, the America
|
||
519 people are realizing that our "War on Drugs" is a sham, and we have to appear
|
||
520 to do something about it. Now, we can use that as an excuse for putting
|
||
521 young American lives on the line, send more money south, and look like we're
|
||
522 doing something. I feel that far-sighted thinking like this will all but
|
||
523 ensure a Republican majority in the House in our lifetime."
|
||
524
|
||
525 OIL FIRMS FIGHT METHANOL:-9/1/89
|
||
526 Faced with the growing momentum of the clean-air movement, big oil
|
||
527 companies are scrambling to head off drastic proposals that would replace
|
||
528 gasoline with alcohol fuels, such as methanol, the Sept. 4 issue of Business
|
||
529 Week reports.
|
||
530 Major oil companies are racing to develop "reformulated" gasolines so they
|
||
531 can compete with alternative fuels, and protect their $100 billion-a-year U.S.
|
||
532 gasoline market from methanol competition, says the Sept. 4 Business Week.
|
||
533 "They don't want to have methanol crammed down their throats," says John R.
|
||
534 Dosher, managing director at Pace Consultants Inc.
|
||
535 Top Bush administration officials favor methanol as a new fuel because it
|
||
536 produces 50 percent less smog or ozone than gasoline, the Sept. 4 Business
|
||
537 Week reports. By 1997, 30 percent of all new cars sold in the nine dirtiest
|
||
538 cities in the United States will have to burn cleaner fuels, such as methanol,
|
||
539 under the administration's proposed revisions to the Clean Air Act.
|
||
540 Oil companies are hot for reformulated gasoline because they can produce
|
||
541 it in existing refineries, says the Sept. 4 issue of Business Week. But
|
||
542 gasoline can't match methanol as a smog-reducer. Removing lead from gasoline
|
||
543 results in fuels that produce more smog. Refiners have substituted aromatic
|
||
544 compounds that include carcinogens, such as benzene and other smog-producing
|
||
545 chemicals.
|
||
546 Arco is working on a reformulated gasoline that reduces evaporative
|
||
547 emissions by 21 percent, yet lowers unburned hydrocarbons - the main culprits
|
||
548 in smog - by only 4 percent. Arco says future gains will be tougher, according
|
||
549 to the Sept. 4 Business Week. It would cost $17 billion to cut aromatics just
|
||
550 10 percentage points, says Information Resources Inc.
|
||
551 Refiners claim they can perfect a better gasoline within five years, but
|
||
552 they might not have that much time, says the Sept. 4 Business Week. Despite
|
||
553 oil industry opposition, Colorado passed new clean-air laws two years ago.
|
||
554 Also, California wants 40 percent of all new cars to burn methanol by 2000,
|
||
555 and eight Northeastern states are studying stringent clean-air proposals.
|
||
556 LEE ATWATER could not be reached for comment.
|
||
557
|
||
558 7TH WITNESS IMPLICATES ROSE:-9/1/89
|
||
559 A seventh witness in the trial of Thomas P. Gioiosa has offered testimony
|
||
560 implicating Cincinnati Reds' manager Pete Rose in tax fraud. Shirley
|
||
561 Fehrenbach, whose daughter dated Gioiosa for a year, said that Gioiosa had
|
||
562 bragged he was sheltering Rose's track winnings from taxes.
|
||
563 As Lee Atwater, Chairman of the Republican National committee, said: "Only
|
||
564 little people pay taxes. I don't understand what everyone's upset about Pete
|
||
565 Rose, Leona Helmsly, and and Jim Bakker not paying taxes...it's common practice
|
||
566 for us big people. If they had to pay taxes on the actual amount of money they
|
||
567 get, it will leave that much less for them to buy Republican candidates. If
|
||
568 they don't buy Republican candidates and the elections, we'll never get a
|
||
569 Republican majority in the House again, and we may lose control of the
|
||
570 Presidency and Senate too. If the wealthy in this country have to follow the
|
||
571 same rules and laws the middle and lower classes do, what's the point of being
|
||
572 ludicrusly wealthy?" or words to that effect.
|
||
573
|
||
574 696969696969696969
|
||
575
|
||
023=Usr:272 Talos 09/02/89 01:59 Msg:4295 Call:23677 Lines:34
|
||
576 <*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*>
|
||
577
|
||
578 A TRUE STORY IN THE DAY IN THE
|
||
579 LIFE OF A "COP-WANNA-BE"
|
||
580
|
||
581
|
||
582 A short story though looking back it made me feel better about my job
|
||
583 as a security officer with Crowd Management Services (CMS). We do mostly
|
||
584 concerts and events like that. The other night I was working the George Clinton
|
||
585 concert at Stary Night. All night I'd been checking coats at the door for guns,
|
||
586 booze, cameras, etc. I also had to tell people they couldn't leave and come
|
||
587 back, Stary Night has a 'No re-entry' policy. After 6 hours of doing this the
|
||
588 concert was over and people started leaving. A young lady came up to me and
|
||
589 asked about paging her friend because she'd lost her. My partner went up to the
|
||
590 main floor and looked around for her. No luck. I walked her around for 20
|
||
591 minutes, through parking lots and small crowds looking for her friend. No luck.
|
||
592 She was from Seattle, lost, scared, and a little drunk. She was nearing tears &
|
||
593 her friend was nowhere to be found. It was also time for me to stow my gear and
|
||
594 get home. Well, it was my job to protect her, a paying customer of the concert,
|
||
595 and to make sure things were 'cool'. At one point she nearly broke out in tears
|
||
596@
|
||
597 and screamed. She said "please hold me!" in a rather terrified voice. I held
|
||
598 her and said "It's going to be all right. I'll stow my gear, we'll get you to a
|
||
599 phone and you can call a friend of yours. I won't leave you alone until you get
|
||
600 to your friend." She settled down and I walked her back to the hall. I checked
|
||
601 in my shirt and got my stuff and went to get her a phone. Lo and behold her
|
||
602 friend was there. They hugged and talked to her for a bit and I walked out with
|
||
603 a pat on her shoulder and said "Don't lose your friends, it'll be all right
|
||
604 now." I caught a cab and came home.
|
||
605 Thinking about it, I remembered holding her in my arms and telling her
|
||
606 that everything would be all right. Yeah, it's a rough job, but at times 's
|
||
607 really worth the effort.
|
||
608 Talos Valheru
|
||
609 <*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*>
|
||
024=Usr:588 Wayne S. 09/02/89 14:54 Msg:4296 Call:23682 Lines:11
|
||
610 ================================================================
|
||
611
|
||
612 You know, I'm awful tired of dropping by this board and reading about
|
||
613 trivial matters like politics and religions and science and logic, etc.
|
||
614 No, I want to bring up a question that _really_ impacts life on this
|
||
615 planet!
|
||
616
|
||
617 What does anyone here think of the new NFL noise penalty? Is it good?
|
||
618 Is it bad? and most importantly, will it work?
|
||
619
|
||
620 ========================Signer====================================
|
||
025=Usr:1 CISTOP MIKEY 09/02/89 17:47 Msg:4297 Call:23684 Lines:4
|
||
621 -----------------------------------------------------------------------
|
||
622 I heard that the judge wanted to sentance Jimmy to working six months for
|
||
623 Leona Helmsley, but he couldn't. There are laws about cruel and inhuman
|
||
624 punishment in this country.
|
||
026=Usr:1 CISTOP MIKEY 09/02/89 17:49 Msg:4298 Call:23685 Lines:1
|
||
625 -------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
||
027=Usr:11 L'homme sans Par 09/02/89 19:17 Msg:4299 Call:23686 Lines:18
|
||
626 ======================---------------===================-------------==========
|
||
627
|
||
628 Yeah man, the rehashed news stories just feeds the creative whim of everyone
|
||
629 here. I mean when I read something on backwater that I just saw on the Today
|
||
630 show two days earlier, the first thing I want to do is write my own original
|
||
631 entry. I am sure it is the same for everyone.
|
||
632
|
||
633 By all means keep on entering stolen articles from other news sources, so
|
||
634 backwater can continue to thrive!
|
||
635
|
||
636 Makes sense to me yuck yuck yuck
|
||
637
|
||
638 Speaking of which - how do you know what I do here or how much I contribute?
|
||
639 Either you are making gross assumptions or you are peaking at information
|
||
640 you have no business peaking at. Shame on you!
|
||
641
|
||
642 --------------------=================== Charitable ==================----------
|
||
643
|
||
028=Usr:286 Jeff Marten 09/03/89 01:24 Msg:4300 Call:23697 Lines:25
|
||
644
|
||
645
|
||
646 {+}{+}{+}{+}
|
||
647
|
||
648 Nice Going Talos.
|
||
649
|
||
650 My job is full of small rewards and petty frustrations too, and
|
||
651 sometimes you can't tell which is which until you get home
|
||
652 and think it over.
|
||
653
|
||
654 I'm in no hurry to regress into seventies love-coated share
|
||
655 fests...but it is nice to read an occasional slice-o-life
|
||
656 reflection from time to time among the cool stories
|
||
657 and harsh opinions.
|
||
658
|
||
659 I assume behind every sharp hacker there lies a real person..
|
||
660 ...its good to hear from you.
|
||
661
|
||
662
|
||
663 -+|[ ThingFish ]|+-
|
||
664 Get Outta Here, Ya Big Softie....
|
||
665
|
||
666
|
||
667 {+}{+}{+}{+}
|
||
668
|
||
029=Usr:11 L'homme sans Par 09/03/89 15:51 Msg:4301 Call:23704 Lines:1
|
||
669 The petrie dish kid was here!
|
||
030=Usr:322 Stray Cat 09/03/89 20:02 Msg:4302 Call:23706 Lines:3
|
||
670
|
||
671 ahhhhaaa, a clone eh?
|
||
672
|
||
031=Usr:13 voyeur 09/04/89 00:02 Msg:4303 Call:23714 Lines:2
|
||
673 Hmmm.... I think the petrie dish kid is missing a chromosome...
|
||
674
|
||
032=Usr:272 Talos 09/04/89 00:17 Msg:4304 Call:23715 Lines:12
|
||
675 <*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*>
|
||
676
|
||
677 ThingFish, thanx. After I got home and thought about it, I really felt good
|
||
678 about what I did. Some guys would've ditched her or put a move on her. At one
|
||
679 point she had started walking away real fast like she was pissed off and didn't
|
||
680 want me to help her but I stayed with her. After I caught up with her is when
|
||
681 she broke up. I like to think there are still SOME nice guys left. I went out
|
||
682 and saw When Harry Met Sally tonight with a girl I've been seeing. Got some
|
||
683 good vibes after the show. It's one of those 'feels good to be alive' nights
|
||
684 now. Good night from Hollywood,
|
||
685 Talos Valheru
|
||
686 <*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*>
|
||
033=Usr:29 The Bard 09/04/89 00:23 Msg:4305 Call:23716 Lines:38
|
||
687 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
|
||
688 Tahl D'Jehn
|
||
689 (words & music: Diana Gallagher)
|
||
690
|
||
691 Tahl d'jehn of the scout ship Dan tahlni
|
||
692 bound for a new star, Chai-te,
|
||
693 Seeking new worlds for the ashin bey.
|
||
694 The colony awaits signal --- go or stay
|
||
695 The decision will be Tahl d'jehn's, the shtahn jii.
|
||
696
|
||
697 Tahl d'jehn of the scout ship Dan tahlni
|
||
698 found Chai-te rich beyond dreams.
|
||
699 But the Law applied, expansion denied,
|
||
700 if an intelligence there did abide.
|
||
701 The Mediators had so agreed it should be.
|
||
702
|
||
703 Tahl d'jehn of the scout ship Dan tahlni
|
||
704 chose to explore Chai-te Two.
|
||
705 Te sole living world, it showed no evidence
|
||
706 of an indigenous, alien intelligence --
|
||
707 Until a derelict probe was taken in tow.
|
||
708
|
||
709 Tahl d'jehn of the scout ship Dan tahlni
|
||
710 analyzed the facts, then he knew.
|
||
711 The NASA were gone, drowned in a sea
|
||
712 of carbon dioxide in antqiy
|
||
713 The reasons Tahl questioned alone.
|
||
714
|
||
715 CODA: Why did they perish, not try to escape
|
||
716 Into the darkness and safety of space?
|
||
717 Why did they die -- jehda tohm?
|
||
718 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
|
||
719 As I have pointed out on another board, there is all to great a possibility
|
||
720 that the Voyagers and Pioneer spacecraft will be the only evidence that our
|
||
721 species ever existed. Thus the song above.
|
||
722
|
||
723 Let's make the above future impossible.
|
||
724 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~BARD~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
|
||
034=Usr:286 Jeff Marten 09/04/89 01:20 Msg:4306 Call:23717 Lines:16
|
||
725
|
||
726
|
||
727 {+}{+}{+}{+}
|
||
728
|
||
729 Some Free Advice
|
||
730
|
||
731 Never...EVER...go to a Catholic wedding with a hangover.
|
||
732
|
||
733 You're Welcome
|
||
734
|
||
735 -+|[ ThingFish ]|+-
|
||
736 All Rise...Please Be Seated...All Rise...Please Be Seated...
|
||
737
|
||
738
|
||
739 {+}{+}{+}{+}
|
||
740
|
||
035=Usr:29 The Bard 09/04/89 13:44 Msg:4307 Call:23719 Lines:1
|
||
741 [1m
|
||
036=Usr:322 Stray Cat 09/04/89 13:58 Msg:4308 Call:23720 Lines:7
|
||
742
|
||
743 Or attend mass on Palm Sunday when you're pregnant and have morning sickness.
|
||
744 It's about a two-hour service ... I hit my funnybone on the way down (do they
|
||
745 still kneel???) and thought I was gonna die. I wasn't feeling well anyway
|
||
746 and I wasn't Catholic either and had never really been to mass before ...
|
||
747
|
||
748 done
|
||
037=Usr:368 Nemesis Warlock 09/04/89 19:29 Msg:4309 Call:23725 Lines:6
|
||
749 Adios to all from Rayal Von Jerrik. I shall return from the Netherworld at
|
||
750 a later date, but for now, I wishyou all goodbye and good luck!
|
||
751 I may not have been on for a loonlong time, but rest assured that I am still
|
||
752 here!
|
||
753 ArrArrArrArrArrArrArrArrArrArrArrArrArrArrArrArrArrArrArrArrArrArrrArrArrArrArr
|
||
754 Away, ye scurvy landlubbers1
|
||
038=Usr:11 L'homme sans Par 09/04/89 23:28 Msg:4310 Call:23729 Lines:7
|
||
755 Or you could just skip the pregnancy thing altogether and go the petrie dish
|
||
756 method. Of course be careful when you are walking around the lab with the
|
||
757 stuff or you might lose that chromosome and end up using slow outdated
|
||
758 computers for the rest of your life.
|
||
759
|
||
760 The petrie-dish kid
|
||
761 ...................
|
||
039=Usr:13 voyeur 09/05/89 00:14 Msg:4311 Call:23732 Lines:3
|
||
762 I see! Dropping a Bit of genetic material would cause one to attain Parity with
|
||
763 a certain 'hombre, eh? Gosh, I love Biology!
|
||
764
|
||
040=Usr:84 Michael Miller j 09/05/89 09:09 Msg:4312 Call:23738 Lines:14
|
||
765 &*&*&*&*'s
|
||
766 What one contributes under another handle does not concern me. I judge only
|
||
767 under the handle that I am talking about. I don't think I should be expected
|
||
768 to either a) figure out what handle goes with which other handle. or b)
|
||
769 relly on the easily defeated log.
|
||
770
|
||
771 Now, about the news. I don't watch TV, other then an occasional movie on the
|
||
772 VCR. I seldom have time to read the paper either, so the news is not old to
|
||
773 me. I know that I am not the only one who feels this way. You are entitled to
|
||
774 your opinion.
|
||
775
|
||
776 An Astral Dreamer
|
||
777 &*&*&*&*'s
|
||
778
|
||
041=Usr:33 Mike Stanfill 09/05/89 16:08 Msg:4313 Call:23745 Lines:127
|
||
779 > SWOB:
|
||
780 > Sorry, but True and False are the endpoints of a continuum.
|
||
781
|
||
782 I'm still not convinced we've actually disagreed on much yet.
|
||
783 If you mean by this that we always make statements with less
|
||
784 than perfect certainty, I wholeheartedly agree. If you mean
|
||
785 that some statements can be true in some cases, and not in
|
||
786 others, I also agree. But if you are saying that a statement
|
||
787 about a particular thing can be somewhere between true and
|
||
788 false, I'm beginning to doubt. Now surely something can be
|
||
789 "close" to the truth, as the models of modern Physics closely
|
||
790 parallel the actual observations, and if you were to call
|
||
791 modern physical models "near truth," I would tend to agree.
|
||
792 The only place I would depart from this statement is where
|
||
793 one is talking about something in the specific, well-defined,
|
||
794 and complete sense. A statement must, in the end, be either
|
||
795 right-on or not. This is the sense of truth I was referring
|
||
796 to when I said that things are either true or not.
|
||
797
|
||
798 > I doubt it
|
||
799 > is possible to make a True statement about the real world, except possibly
|
||
800 > mathematically.
|
||
801
|
||
802 With infinite precision? probably not. But if you widen your scope
|
||
803 enough, you'll eventually hit something that's true (i.e. instead of
|
||
804 saying "water boils at 100C", say something like "water boils"
|
||
805 (I know, I know, 'how profound!'))
|
||
806
|
||
807 > Remember, "What is Truth?" goes back a long way.
|
||
808
|
||
809 At least back to Francis Bacon. But, as William Golding said, some
|
||
810 use it as the end of an argument, instead of the beginning.
|
||
811
|
||
812 > As for the metalanguage, it *has* to come in in any "self-referential"
|
||
813 > sentence. The sentence is just symbols, parsed according to the rules of the
|
||
814 > language. If the language is self-consistent, then the sentence has a truth
|
||
815 > value. But that value doesn't depend on the *meaning* of the symbols.
|
||
816 > <this sentence> <is> <false>.
|
||
817 > <x> <is> <y>.
|
||
818 > <this sentence> is a symbol. <false> is a symbol.
|
||
819 > <This sentence> is not The Sentence In Question. <false> is not False,
|
||
820 > which is a possible result of parsing The Sentence In Question.
|
||
821
|
||
822 I think I see what you mean: that the statement is not self-
|
||
823 referential. But I can find no justification for this position.
|
||
824 To say that "this sentence" is on a different level of abstraction
|
||
825 than "false" does not ring true to me. They are both particulars
|
||
826 and both concrete. And I cannot agree with the statement that the
|
||
827 value of a sentence does not depend on the meaning of its symbols.
|
||
828 The sentence "I am human" can be true if and only if "I" (the
|
||
829 person, not the word or the concept) truly "am" (in the physical
|
||
830 sense) "human" (fall within whatever specifications determine
|
||
831 humanity).
|
||
832 The sentence "All sentences are false" is not nonsense,
|
||
833 because "all sentences" is a different level of abstraction than
|
||
834 the sentence in question. "Never say never" is not a paradox
|
||
835 since the first "never" is talking about all statements, the
|
||
836 second about particular ones (see Neil Portman, "Confusing Levels
|
||
837 of Abstraction"). I do not see this type of difference in "This
|
||
838 sentence is false."
|
||
839
|
||
840 > A good example is the BASIC statement: A=A+1. By the rules of mathematics
|
||
841 > this would be a false statement. By the rules of BASIC it results in the valu
|
||
842 > A changing. The "this sentence is false" paradox is equivalent to looking
|
||
843 > at the BASIC statement and declaring it a paradox!
|
||
844
|
||
845 Of course, if you change what "is" means, you can make the sentence
|
||
846 coherent. (In the preceding example, you have simply changed the
|
||
847 meaning of '=' from comparison to assignment)
|
||
848
|
||
849 > "This sentence is false" is either a nonsenical bit of English,
|
||
850
|
||
851 Exactly my point. The sentence is pure nonsense.
|
||
852
|
||
853 > or it
|
||
854 > is a collection of symbols to be logically evaluated.
|
||
855
|
||
856 I suppose you can view it that way, but then you are taking away
|
||
857 its meaningfulness to the real world anyway.
|
||
858
|
||
859 > In the first case, it
|
||
860 > isn't anything but nonsense. In the second case, it is just symbols, and self
|
||
861 >rerence isn't allowed.
|
||
862
|
||
863 Exactly! So what are we disagreeing on? I think, perhaps, I was
|
||
864 speaking solely in the first sense, while you were speaking solely
|
||
865 in the second.
|
||
866
|
||
867 > Note the difference between *facts* (ie reality) and *statements about
|
||
868 > those facts*. ^^^^^^^^^^
|
||
869
|
||
870 In keeping with the context of the discussion, I was restricting
|
||
871 my discussion to the truth or falsity of facts only. I agree
|
||
872 completely that statements about facts can be "true" (accurate)
|
||
873 without being infinitely precise.
|
||
874
|
||
875 > Facts are either true or false.
|
||
876
|
||
877 Couldn't have said it better myself.
|
||
878
|
||
879 > Statements about reality have
|
||
880 >degrees of truth.
|
||
881
|
||
882 Yes, depending on how closely they approximate the facts.
|
||
883
|
||
884 Well, I can't really see much that I disagree with other than the
|
||
885 nature of the statement 'This sentence is false.' (whether it is
|
||
886 self-referential or refers to something else). I am content to
|
||
887 say that it is an assertion which can be assigned no logical value,
|
||
888 and is therefore not a proposition, but if it really is referring
|
||
889 (somehow) to the *concept* of a sentence rather than this particular
|
||
890 sentence, please explain how this is reconciled with other sentences
|
||
891 about particular things.
|
||
892 In short, I don't know what the sentence is. It seems to
|
||
893 me to be nonsense, and since the application of levels of abstraction
|
||
894 and meta-language to self-referential truth statements is not a
|
||
895 burning question in my mind, I'm willing to drop it. We seem to
|
||
896 agree on the point I was making to (Friar, was it?) that facts are
|
||
897 either true or false.
|
||
898
|
||
899 "I think there should be something in science called the 'reindeer
|
||
900 effect.' I don't know what it would be, but I think it'd be good
|
||
901 to hear someone say, 'Gentlemen, what we have here is a terrifying _
|
||
902 example of the reindeer effect.'" /#)
|
||
903 -Jack Handey, "Deep Thoughts" n n n (#/
|
||
904 / ~~~ ~~~ \/
|
||
905 */*/*/*/*/*/*/ -swob (a Self-Willed Orange Blancmange) /___/____\__\
|
||
042=Usr:29 The Bard 09/05/89 22:10 Msg:4314 Call:23748 Lines:15
|
||
906 SWOB:
|
||
907 >We seem to agree on the point I was making to (Friar, was it?) that facts are
|
||
908 >either true or false.
|
||
909
|
||
910 But what both Friar and I have been saying is that *statements* may be true,
|
||
911 false, or anything inbetween. Your exapmple above will do quite well:
|
||
912 "water boils". The statement may be true or it may be false. But it requires
|
||
913 information not present in the statement OR IN THE RULES OF DISCOURSE to
|
||
914 determine which. That Is why I said it is almost impossible to make a true
|
||
915 statement about reality.
|
||
916 The statement must be able to stand on it's own.
|
||
917 Likewise, "This sentence is false" can't be a paradox, because the only means
|
||
918 of parsing it that will even give it the appearance of one is English. English
|
||
919 is not a "formal system". Thuis it can't have paradoxes...
|
||
920 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~BARD~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
|
||
043=Usr:84 Michael Miller j 09/06/89 09:51 Msg:4315 Call:23760 Lines:10
|
||
921 &*&*&*&*'s
|
||
922 But it ("This sentence is false.") Is Meaningless. Null Program. Same thing
|
||
923 as a paradox as far as I can see. Translate it to any other language (French,
|
||
924 Russion etc.) And you'll find it is just as meaningless. Much like saying
|
||
925 A:=A; in pascal. Any good optomizer would get rid of it because of the lack
|
||
926 of meaning.
|
||
927
|
||
928 An Astral Dreamer
|
||
929 &*&*&*&*'s
|
||
930
|
||
044=Usr:26 Mohammed Wassir 09/06/89 19:04 Msg:4316 Call:23775 Lines:9
|
||
931 Blue Parrot Blues
|
||
932
|
||
933 I've been away for a few days and upon my return, I can't seem to
|
||
934 revive the Parrot. The darned thing won't boot up. Please
|
||
935 consider the Parrot off-line until I can figure out what the
|
||
936 problem is.
|
||
937
|
||
938 Michael Bigham
|
||
939 -------------------------------------------------------------------
|
||
045=Usr:1 CISTOP MIKEY 09/06/89 20:36 Msg:4317 Call:23776 Lines:3
|
||
940 Ack! Help Somebody! I'm going through Parrot withdrawl! Ack!
|
||
941 Awk! Awk! Polly wanna cracker! Awk!
|
||
942 ==================================================================
|
||
046=Usr:507 todd rogers 09/06/89 22:10 Msg:4318 Call:23779 Lines:14
|
||
943 -------
|
||
944 -------
|
||
945 -------
|
||
946 -------
|
||
947 ------- I just stopped by to say that i have nothing to say.
|
||
948 ------- That is i would have had nothing to say if I didn't stop
|
||
949 ------- by and say that i had nothing to say. But now that I've
|
||
950 ------- said that i had nothing to say, I guess that was something
|
||
951 ------- in itself..... Hmmmmm.... I'm going to have to think
|
||
952 ------- about this for a while.....
|
||
953 -------
|
||
954 ------- When you say your thinking about nothing, are you thinking
|
||
955 ------- about nothing or are you thinking ABOUT nothing....
|
||
956 ------- If you catch my drift... that is if I throw it.
|
||
047=Usr:4 Milchar 09/06/89 23:40 Msg:4319 Call:23780 Lines:5
|
||
957 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
|
||
958 And Celene is back on the air! Well, sort of. My spell laboratory is
|
||
959 set up on a kitchen table here in Rose City, pending a more permanent
|
||
960 transfer of equipment. But at least I can catch up on BW...
|
||
961 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Milch ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
|
||
048=Usr:84 Michael Miller j 09/07/89 09:40 Msg:4320 Call:23785 Lines:3
|
||
962
|
||
963 sed! sed! perl! perl!
|
||
964
|
||
049=Usr:289 Audie Huber 09/07/89 17:11 Msg:4321 Call:23797 Lines:17
|
||
965 3.141592653589793238463.141592653589793238463.14159265358979323846
|
||
966
|
||
967 Just another psychotic. How many of you nimno Backwaterians are
|
||
968 heading off to college this month. Or how many of you are in college
|
||
969 right now. I'm headin' off to University of Oregon, so I'll be missing
|
||
970 BWMS. Just wonderin'.
|
||
971
|
||
973 There once was a woman from Bright,
|
||
974 Who travled much faster than light.
|
||
975 She went out one day, in a relative way,
|
||
976 And returned the previous night.
|
||
977
|
||
978 History does not repeat itself, historians repeat each other.
|
||
979
|
||
980 --Audie Huber.
|
||
981 3.141592653589793238463.141592653589793238463.14159265358979323846
|
||
050=Usr:33 Mike Stanfill 09/07/89 21:47 Msg:4322 Call:23802 Lines:11
|
||
982 /*/*/*/*/*/*/*
|
||
983 Some timely advice for Milch follows, but mostly just a swoblurk...
|
||
984 ||
|
||
985 \/
|
||
986 "f you keep some people's brains alive by putting them in an
|
||
987 aquarium after they're dead, go ahead and put in some snails to keep
|
||
988 down that algae. But not too many, because the snails could _
|
||
989 overpopulate and crowd out the brains from the habitat." /#)
|
||
990 -Jack Handey, "Deep Thoughts" n n n (#/
|
||
991 / ~~~ ~~~ \/
|
||
992 */*/*/*/*/*/*/ -swob (a Self-Willed Orange Blancmange) /___/____\__\
|
||
051=Usr:277 Schizo 09/07/89 22:29 Msg:4323 Call:23803 Lines:7
|
||
993 !!! @!@! !!!! !! @@!! @@@
|
||
994 Here is the end.
|
||
995 The terrible lifesucking merciless end.
|
||
996 And I stand alone, my only companion
|
||
997 that which I belive to be here, but not seen, not heard.
|
||
998 And not even belived by most who have gone before me. The end.
|
||
999 !!! @!@! !!!! !! @@!! @@@
|