1039 lines
61 KiB
Plaintext
1039 lines
61 KiB
Plaintext
NUMBER OF LINES: 999
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001=Usr:0 Null User 06/30/87 20:34 Msg:0 Call:0 Lines:19
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1$If you are in need of help, you need but ask...
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2$************************* INSTALLED: 26 JUL 89 ***************************
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3$Welcome to BWMS II (BackWater Message System II) Mike Day System operator
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4$**************************************************************************
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5$GENERAL DISCLAIMER: BWMS II IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY INFORMATION
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6$ PLACED ON THIS SYSTEM.
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7$BWMS II was created as an electronic bill board. BWMS II is a privately
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8$owned and operated system which is currently open for use by the general
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9$public. No restrictions are placed on the use of the system. As the
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10$system is privately owned, I retain the right to remove any and all
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11$messages which I may find offensive. Because of the limited size of the
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12$system, it will be periodically purged of messages (only 999 lines of data
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13$can be saved). To leave a message, type 'ENTER'. Use ctrl/C to get out
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14$the ENTER mode. The message is automatically stored. If after entering
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15$the message you find you made a mistake, use the replace command to
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16$replace the line. To exit from the system, type 'BYE' then hang up.
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17$Type 'HELP' to see other commands that are available on the system.
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18$**************************************************************************
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19$
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002=Usr:1 CISTOP MIKEY 07/26/89 21:08 Msg:4161 Call:22851 Lines:2
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20 Oh that I had wings like a dove! For then would I fly away, and be at rest.
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21 *************************************************************************
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003=Usr:70 Kurfur Redlig 07/26/89 21:33 Msg:4162 Call:22853 Lines:12
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22 KKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKurfur Redlig | Not Again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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23
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24 Well, once again, I appear to be at the top. Well, at least that's how it
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25 looks from way up here. I gotta finish off that last disk, and now I get
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26 to start off this one. Some people have all the luck, don't they?
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27
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28 OLO
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29 \___/
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30 U
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31
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32 KKKKKKKKKKKKKKurfur Redlig | Onwards and downwards!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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33
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004=Usr:53 prince dragon 07/26/89 23:58 Msg:4163 Call:22858 Lines:6
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34 may 26 89???????
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35 why is the date on this disk 26 may 89??
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36 datecode is 89.7.27.00:06
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37 .-=-.-=-.-=-.
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38 off
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39
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005=Usr:84 Michael Miller j 07/27/89 12:59 Msg:4164 Call:22866 Lines:7
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40 &*&*&*&*'s
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41 THe date does indeed appear to be off. Strange, perhaps we are in fact
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42 communicating with the past!
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43
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44 An Astral Dreamer
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45 &*&*&*&*'s (Living in 7-27-89)
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46
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006=Usr:287 Ralph Steadman 07/27/89 13:14 Msg:4165 Call:22868 Lines:94
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47 696969696969
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48 APn 07/26/89. By WILLIAM M. WELCH Associated Press Writer
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49 WASHINGTON (AP) -- Michael Dukakis walked off the stage after his final
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50 debate with George Bush and told a top aide, "I blew it," according to a new
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51 book about the presidential race.
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52 Dukakis knew he had committed a serious error by responding without emotion
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53 to a question about the possibility of his wife being raped and killed,
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54 political columnists Jack Germond and Jules Witcover write in "Whose Broad
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55 Stripes and Bright Stars? The Trivial Pursuit of the Presidency 1988."
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56 Aides were baffled at Dukakis' fumbled answer because the Massachusetts
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57 governor had rehearsed an effective answer to a soft-on-crime question 13 times
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58 during debate preparations.
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59 Advance copies of the book, published by Warner Books, drew notice earlier
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60 this month for critical comments about Vice President Dan Quayle attributed to
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61 Quayle's campaign aides.
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62 President Bush said he was offended by Republican advisers, quoted by Germon
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63 and Witcover, who called Quayle a "lightweight" and described him as having a
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64 childlike immaturity.
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65 Dukakis' debate response, widely criticized at the time, was to a question b
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66 moderator Bernard Shaw of CNN, who asked if he would favor the death penalty if
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67 his wife were raped and murdered.
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68 Germond and Witcover write that the three other journalists on the panel wer
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69 told of Shaw's question in advance and tried unsuccessfully to talk him into
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70 softening it.
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71 Dukakis' response began: "No, I don't, Bernard. And I think you know I've
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72 opposed the death penalty all of my life. I don't see any evidence that it's a
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73 deterrent, and I think there are better and more effective ways to deal with
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74 violent crime. We've done so in my own state."
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75 Dukakis' answer was flat and bloodless, and it was remembered by voters
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76 because it "captured the candidate's most glaring vulnerabilities," according t
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77 the book.
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78 The authors say Dukakis walked off the stage in Los Angeles and told top aid
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79 John Sasso, "I blew it."
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80 The book also describes the Bush campaign's successful focus on a handful of
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81 issues used to create negative feelings about Dukakis. Those issues included
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82 Dukakis' veto of a bill requiring students to say the pledge of allegiance, his
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83 support for a law allowing convicted murderers to be furloughed from prison and
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84 opposition to the death penalty.
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85
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86 APn 07/24/89. By ROBERT M. ANDREWS Associated Press Writer
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87 WASHINGTON (AP) -- Holy Batroots! Is it really true, as some scientists
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88 suggest, that human beings and bats might be distant cousins who share the same
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89 primeval ancestors? Is there a Batman or Count Dracula lurking in each of us?
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90 In the heat of this summer's batmania, with American moviegoers breaking
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91 box-office records to see "Batman," anything seems possible.
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92 The National Zoo's bat expert, Dr. John Seidensticker, says it's an
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93 intriguing theory, one you could sink your teeth into, but he's not sure he
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94 believes it. Other scientists at the Smithsonian Institution scoff at the idea.
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95 Seidensticker says brain studies have yielded evidence that certain kinds of
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96 large bats found in Africa and the South Pacific may be descendants of
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97 prehistoric primates akin to lemurs or mouselike shrews.
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98 "The theory is that these bats are really flying primates," he says, and
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99 connected somehow in the evolutionary chain to the early primate ancestors of
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100 monkeys, apes, gorillas -- and humans.
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101 But Dr. Charles Handley, a leading authority on bats and other mammals at th
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102 Smithsonian's National Museum of Natural History, says this theory is a "hot
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103 potato" of scientific controversy that has won few adherents.
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104 "We don't know what the ancestors of bats really were," Handley said.
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105 The 160 fluttering bats in the National Zoo's new Bat Cave aren't talking.
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106 In fact, they don't display the slightest familial interest in their suppose
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107 two-legged cousins who stare intently through a glass wall into their dimly
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108 lighted hideaway of damp rocks and hollow tree trunks.
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109 One recent visitor was Vice President Dan Quayle and his children, who
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110 attended the Washington premiere of "Batman" at a nearby movie theater and then
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111 joined a post-screening party for 1,200 guests in a tent outside the Bat Cave.
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112 Seidensticker, the zoo's associate curator of mammals, illuminated the cave
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113 for Quayle with a flashlight. He said the vice president was "very interested"
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114 in the bats and lingered for seven minutes, much longer than the average
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115 tourist.
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116 Seidensticker said bats "are not mice with wings, they are bats," and people
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117 shouldn't be afraid of them.
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118 "They actually are nice, fun, incredible animals," he says. "They're great
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119 little guys."
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120 Keeper Carol Prima, who wears a Batman baseball cap, says the bats have neve
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121 bothered her. "They're not aggressive," she said. "If anything, they're just
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122 curious."
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123 They hover watchfully while she scrubs the cave walls or delivers their
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124 meals. The bats, three species of fruit eaters, consume 30 pounds of grapes,
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125 melons, bananas and a gruel of peach nectar and vitamins every day.
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126 The rest of the time they fly back and forth, socialize in their "harems" an
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127 just hang out. Or, more precisely, hang down. They also have active sex lives.
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128 "They're continuously producing babies," Seidensticker says.
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129 Ms. Prima says she's never felt threatened working in the Bat Cave.
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130 "They never touch me, and they've never flown into my hair," she said. "They
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131 keep their distance. They know you're there, but they aren't interested in
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132 coming near you. They aren't accepting you as a bat."
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133 "There's no need to fear these little guys," she says, although some visitor
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134 have been seen anxiously sprinting past the Bat Cave without a glance.
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135 The public's most frequently asked question, says Seidensticker, is "Where's
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136 the Batmobile?"
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137
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138 696969696969696969
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139
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140 second most asked question: "Where's the little batgirl's room?"
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007=Usr:365 Ornac Owl 07/27/89 13:43 Msg:4166 Call:22869 Lines:56
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141
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142 prsmen & Minutemen
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143
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144 Perhaps the most bizarre aspect of the gun control movement is the
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145 emphasis it places on _not_ infringing of the sporting uses of firearms.
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146 Gun control advocates of all stripes--all but the most doctrinaire of
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147 h etitoste doae on the right of
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148 Americans to keep and bear arms will do nothing to restrict the
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149 _legitimate_ rights of sportsmen. They, of course, reserve the right to
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150 determine what is legitimate and what is not.
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151 The concern of gun grabers with the rights of sportsmen does not grow
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152 out of a love of sport. It grows out of the cold-eyed calculation that
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153 any attempt to restrict firearms ownership that seriously infringed on
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154 hunting and target shooting would alienate tens of millions of Americans
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155 and result in the sitadpraetrmoval from office of those
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156 public officals who support their cause.
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157 But there is a second, more sinister motivation as well. That is the
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158 need of gun control advocates to shift the debate away from the bedrock
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159 isse--which is that the right to keep and bear arms is a fundamental
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160 liberty protected by the Constitution and that those who would restrict
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161 that rigtaeavctn sweeping assault on the liberty of the
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162 American people. Gun grabbers know that if the restrictions they
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163 advocate are debated in terms of the Second Amendment their position
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164 is indefensible. So they are desperate to reformulate the argument in
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165 terms more favorable to them. By casting the case for and agaisnt gun
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166 ownership in terms of "sporting purposes" they trivialize the
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167 constitutional issue.
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168 Or so they think.
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169 While it is self-evidentl reta h eod Amendment was not put
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170 in the Constituition to protect the right to shoot ducks--it was put
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171 there to ensure that no government would have a monopoly on the tools of
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172 coercive force and to ensure that individual Americans would have access
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173 to the instruments of self-defense--there is in fact a crucial link
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174 between so-called sport shooting and the fundamental right to keep and
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175 ba rms.
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176 It is this: If firearms are to be used competently the user must
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177 practice.
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178 America is a reasonably civilized place, and the occasions when a
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179 citizen msut use a weapon for a constitutionally protected purpose--self-
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180 defense for instance--occur relatively infrequently. But that is all the
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181 more reason why the opportunity to train and practice with the weapons
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182 that will be used in critical. There is rarely time to become proficient
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183 we h olf is at the door.
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184 The truth is that there is nothing trivial about using firearms for
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185 sporting purposes, any more that theere is anything trivial about basic
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186 training. Allowing gun grabbers to determine what firearms can
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187 appropriately be used for sporting purposes and the appropriate time,
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188 place and manner of their use is like allowing pacifists to determine
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189 hwthe Army should train for battle.
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190 Make no mistake--using firearms for sporitng purposes is using firearms
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191 for training. And limiting the ability to train to 19th century arms--as
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192 gun grabbers are in effect doing when they propose to ban semiautomatic
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193 arms--is a profound infringement on the right to keep and bear arms.
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194
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195 By Robert K. Brown
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196
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008=Usr:70 Kurfur Redlig 07/27/89 20:46 Msg:4167 Call:22878 Lines:28
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197 KKKKKKKKKKKKurfur Redlig | Up next.... More batty facts..................
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198
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199 It's interesting in the recent article on bats that the zoo bat specialist
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200 tended to clump the bats into only 1 group. From what I learned and read
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201 (mostly in biology a few years back), there are actually two different
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202 types of 'bat'. One is the microthoptera, or true bats. These are the
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203 small carnivorous beasties with the large ears, sonar, that eat insects
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204 (although they do include the infamous 'vampire' bat in their ranks). The
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205 other group is the megathoptera, or flying foxes. These are the large
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206 bats (some with wingspans in excess of 4 feet) with small ears and
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207 elongated muzzels that have only rudimentary (if any) sonar. These flying
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208 giants are all herbivorous, eating only fruit and nectar.
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209 I was informed that the two groups of bats were not closely related at
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210 all, only being as close as say a canine is to a feline. The true bats,
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211 carnivores, are probably descended from weasels or badger relatives (very
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212 distantly), while the flying foxes are descended from the original lemur
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213 (primate) stock and are relatives of humans (very distantly). What we
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214 basically have is synchronous evolution; two species evolving similiar
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215 characteristics the exploit the same method, in this case flight, but for
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216 different means, to catch prey or to find tree fruit. It's basically the
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217 same mechanism that causes dolphins to look like the extinct itchthyosaurs.
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218 They both used the same method, and therefore evolved the same form (to
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219 a certain degree). In this manner, some bats are our cousins, and others
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220 aren't.
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221 If you are actually reading this, which you probably aren't, tell me
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222 your opinion on the matter.
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223
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224 KKKKurfur Redlig | When it comes to bats, I like to wing it :) Ha Ha!!!!!
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009=Usr:1 CISTOP MIKEY 07/27/89 21:21 Msg:4168 Call:22880 Lines:4
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225 -------------------------------------------------------------------------
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226 Well, if you take evolution as being the way of things, then technically,
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227 at some point in the past bats and humans DID have a common ancestor.
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228 ---------------------------- M ------------------------------------------
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010=Usr:4 Milchar 07/27/89 23:42 Msg:4169 Call:22885 Lines:6
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229 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
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230 Yep. 'Twas my Great^2342820 Granpa, Fred Ameoba.
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231 +++++++++++++++++++++
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232 Ghandi II- This time he's ticked off. Coming soon to a vidscreen near
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233 you.
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234 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Milch ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
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011=Usr:33 Mike Stanfill 07/28/89 16:17 Msg:4170 Call:22903 Lines:102
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235 /*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*
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236 NOTE: To those who might be offended, I would like to clarify something.
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237 In this article, I use the word 'he' as a neutral pronoun. I do not
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238 do so in order to imply that women are incapable of rational thought
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239 or any other such nonsense. Neither is the hypothetical person
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240 introduced in this article intended to characterize either M or
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241 Kurfur. I have done both these things purely out of convenience
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242 and in the interest of making the article more readable. To
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243 paraphrase Lee Iacocca, "If you can find a better pronoun, use it."
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244
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245 > In response to some of the previous comments in some of the previous
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246 > messages, I must state that a state of being good or bad does not
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247 > necessarily also mean better or worse. It was stated that for one to
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248 > believe in there being 'better information' they had to believe in the
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249 > concepts of good and bad. That is not necessarily true.
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250
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251 I agree that 'better information' cannot mean 'more moral information'
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252 since moral judgements cannot be pronounced on objects. Information itself
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253 can only be said to be better in the sense that it is more logical. My
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254 point is that when applied to moral systems, the information must indicate
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255 a better (more morally good) system, or it is useless. My wording was poor.
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256
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257 > Better
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258 > information could just mean that it was more accurate, from a more
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259 > reliable source, or made more sense.
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260
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261 The first two cases seem to me to be saying the same thing in
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262 different ways. Information that will change someone's view of what is
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263 right and what is wrong has to deal with the issues of right and wrong.
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264 To say that a given piece of information is more accurate is to say that
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265 it conforms more closely to the truth - which in this case is 'right'.
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266 The only value of a more reliable source is that it is more likely to
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267 give accurate information. With information which simply 'makes more
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268 sense,' you may have a point, though I don't think it is the one you
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269 intended to make.
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270 I take 'makes more sense' to mean that it fits in better with the
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271 rules of logic as the person understands them. From here the person may
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272 take two roads: he may say that there is an absolute logical truth,
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273 while rejecting the absolute moral truth, or he may reject both.
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274 If he rejects both, he is saying that his idea of 'logic' is
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275 completely subjective and has no relevance to anything. He has lost all
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276 capacity for distinguishing information. To say that information is
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277 more logical is to say nothing about the information, only about how he
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278 *feels* about it, which by his own definition is completely arbitrary.
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279 To say otherwise would be to admit that there is truth. All that is
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280 left to him is what he happens to feel at the moment, and his philosophy
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281 becomes literally 'if it feels good, do it.' The worst part is that
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282 his other option is no better.
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283 If he accepts absolute logical truth, then he is saying that he
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284 believes that there is some one system of logic which is correct, and
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285 (if he is going to say anything) that he has some understanding of that
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286 system. However, in rejecting the idea that some beliefs are better
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287 than others, he cannot get farther than the statement 'This system is more
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288 logical.' To say 'Therefore, I *should* adopt this system' contradicts
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289 his stated premise. The 'should' implies that he sees the one system as
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290 not simply different, but better. He sees (rightly, I believe) that a
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291 more logical system _is_ a *morally better* system. But he has eliminated
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292 this possibility already. He has no grounds on which to prefer a more
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293 logical system to a less logical one. The best he can say is 'I will
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294 adopt this new belief system because it is the one I want to adopt.'
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295 The person may, of course, say then that Logic is the One Measure of
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296 the good of a philosophy. While this is admitting *one* thing as being
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297 morally better than another, he may yet find it acceptable. But in the
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298 practical sense, he has not changed his view at all. Moral systems do not
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299 start with logical principles, but with moral ones, and simply adding the
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300 constraint of logical coherence is tying the ethereal beast with material
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301 cords. Certainly, maintaining that there are no (other) concepts of good
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302 is logical (Indeed, it is the view our hypothetical person holds). But we
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303 are back where we started. Anything the person feels like doing is open
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304 to him. His moral system (i.e. that there are no morals) is logical, and
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305 there is no further constraint. He has no grounds for preferring one
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306 action to another other than the fact that he *wants* to do some things,
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307 and doesn't want to do others. The logical constraint does absolutely
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308 nothing. Any time he wants to say of something, 'I *ought* to do this,'
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309 he must appeal to an objective moral truth, or admit that this is just
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310 some arbitrary feeling and that by 'ought' he really means 'want.'
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311
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312 > Whether information is
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313 > 'more gooder' or 'more badder' (for want of better expressions) depends
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314 > on what the reciever of the information wants to hear. If, during a war,
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315 > a general recieves information that half troops were dead, and there was
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316 > reliable evidence to back up this info (pictures etc.), while a wild
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317 > rumor earlier said that the general had only lost one eighth of his
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318 >troops, the info that half were dead would be regarded as better, but
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319 > 'badder' information than the rumor.
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320
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321 I must say first that things which are morally good are not necessarily
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322 in all other ways good. The reliable information is regarded as logically
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323 better since it is far more likely to be true. The general would do moral
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324 good to adjust his tactics accordingly. The fact that the information is
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325 good in the logical sense has no bearing on how good it will make the
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326 general feel. I do, however, see your point that information cannot be
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327 *morally* good, since information is a thing, not an action or a motive.
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328 I often make the mistake of fusing moral and logical truth together, since
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329 they don't really survive without each other, but I concede that they are
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330 essentially separate.
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331
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332 "When you're riding in a time machine way far into the future, _
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333 don't stick your elbow out the window, or it'll turn /#)
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334 into a fossil." -Jack Handey, "Deep Thoughts" n n n (#/
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335 / ~~~ ~~~ \/
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336 */*/*/*/*/*/*/ -swob (a Self-Willed Orange Blancmange) /___/____\__\
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012=Usr:1 CISTOP MIKEY 07/28/89 23:12 Msg:4171 Call:22914 Lines:38
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337 There are some problems I have with the words "right", and "truth".
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338 These words are usually used to 'prove' that a statement is correct.
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339 This is not a problem in itself, but all to often a person will use
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340 the statement to prove that _their_ version of the "truth" is the _only_
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341 version possible. Thus I tend to shy away from the usage and when I do
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342 I try to qualify my usage as being *my* view point. I don't even want to
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343 get into morals, because that is a massive can of worms to deal with that
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344 is purely personal in nature. Yet far too many people believe that _their_
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345 moral system is the only acceptable system and that allother people must
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346 be forced to comply to their personal vision of reality.
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347 I don't seek after "truth" in that sense, I seek after information.
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348 I accept the concept that there may be many "truths". I try to understand
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349 the alternate truths so that I can better understand how other people
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350 think and how they have formed their reality.
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351 I operate within the current version of my own reality, but I also
|
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352 recognize that there are other realities and other versions of the
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353 truth that may not fit my own. This does not make them right or wrong,
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354 it only makes them different.
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355 For some people Jesus was the son of God, for others he was just a
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356 man who happen to be in the right place at the right time. Some people
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357 demand that one view or the other be the only acceptable reality, so
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358 they pick one and deny the other. Yet, they are both perfectly valid
|
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359 views of reality that depend on your belief system.
|
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360 Morality is even messier, because it is totally tied to a belief
|
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361 system. Though morality is often justified by logical proofs, it is
|
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362 based in beliefs not logic. The logical proof is an attempt to
|
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363 scientifically prove that a specific morality is the "right" one
|
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364 and that all others are "wrong". I of course have my own belief
|
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365 system and my own moral system, but I also recognize that there are
|
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366 other moral systems and do not presume that my versin of reality
|
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367 is the only one or necesarily the proper and valid one for all
|
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368 people. Though I'll certainly fight to keep my reality intact if
|
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369 it is attacked by another.
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370 Mostly though, I tend to point out that one person's belief system
|
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371 is not the only possible one when I see that stance taken. It doesn't
|
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372 always gain me a favorable response, but at least they know where I'm
|
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373 coming from, and just maybe they will think about it.
|
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374 ---------------------------------M --------------------------------
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|
013=Usr:1 CISTOP MIKEY 07/28/89 23:54 Msg:4172 Call:22915 Lines:3
|
|
375 Tomorrow night (saturday) Ch 10 will show the last Monty Python
|
|
376 show produced.
|
|
377 *************************************************************
|
|
014=Usr:287 Ralph Steadman 07/29/89 18:47 Msg:4173 Call:22931 Lines:1
|
|
378 Too tired to think.
|
|
015=Usr:366 berney dunn 07/29/89 21:11 Msg:4174 Call:22936 Lines:15
|
|
379 Are you sure there is no "better" or "worse" ?
|
|
380 There is a quite simple test of this, and then we can extend it with
|
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381 logic, if necessary. "Does it feel good?" But you must also include ALL
|
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382 'side effects'. In other words "it feels good now" doesn't cut it.
|
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383
|
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384 Or you could just choose a few basic principals, and extend them with logic,
|
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385 such as humans have value, pain is undersirable, and from there build most
|
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386 all of morality. Or perhaps accept that what existing people want as what is
|
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387 good for them. (But there you will run into logical contrdictions.)
|
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388
|
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389 I would consider anything that causes more pain as bad, and anything that
|
|
390 reduces it as good. Morality is only meaningful when tied to humans, and we
|
|
391 (you are human, aren't you?) are mortal, physical beings, with normal
|
|
392 animal needs, therefore we can form a logical morality based on these.
|
|
393 ................................B.A.D. ................................
|
|
016=Usr:1 CISTOP MIKEY 07/29/89 22:03 Msg:4175 Call:22938 Lines:20
|
|
394
|
|
395
|
|
396 Archivists: Please note the following disks. Let me know which
|
|
397 ones you are missing so that I can get you updated. If you notify
|
|
398 me before the PCS meeting this coming thursday I can bring them along.
|
|
399 Note that we are currently working on disk #100! The disk in drive B
|
|
400 as of the date of this writing (29jun89) will be the first of the
|
|
401 group of five BW disks that will be archived to disk #100.
|
|
402
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|
403 #90 18nov87 10dec87 29dec87 23jan88 13feb88
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|
404 #91 02mar88 19mar88 09apr88 17may88 05jun88
|
|
405 #92 26jun88 05jul88 13jul88 20jul88 29jul88
|
|
406 #93 06aug88 11aug88 19aug88 31aug88 07sep88
|
|
407 #94 15sep88 24sep88 30sep88 27oct88 12nov88
|
|
408 #95 09dec88 30dec88 11jan89 18jan89 26jan89
|
|
409 #96 05feb89 12feb89 18feb89 27feb89 04mar89
|
|
410 #97 12mar89 18mar89 24mar89 31mar89 11apr89
|
|
411 #98 20apr89 24apr89 02may89 07may89 13may89
|
|
412 #99 23may89 08jun89 16jun89 25jun89 09jul89
|
|
413 *************************** Mikey ************************************
|
|
017=Usr:498 Hagbard Celine , 07/30/89 13:57 Msg:4176 Call:22950 Lines:52
|
|
414
|
|
415 {}
|
|
416
|
|
417 Things are heating up! - and so is the summer heat. I haven't seen
|
|
418 such a composed debate since the last abortion/gun control bout.
|
|
419
|
|
420 My 2 cents:
|
|
421
|
|
422 Logic is, in itself, self-defeating. If you can think of a single
|
|
423 paradox, then you will find what I am describing. Don't believe that
|
|
424 logic is all-proof. After all, how do you define logic? There is
|
|
425 nothing lower: you have reached the foundation of modern understanding.
|
|
426 Below this lies mysticism and religion, at the "cross-over point" between
|
|
427 fact and faith.
|
|
428
|
|
429 As for the good-evil thing, before anyone makes another entry, have
|
|
430 you considered that good and evil are self-defining? "What is good
|
|
431 shall not be evil, but what is Evil, shall not be good." Again, we
|
|
432 come back to the concepts of shared fictions, beliefs, and "points
|
|
433 of view". That is all YOU can be sure of - that "I think, therefore
|
|
434 I am", and that your view is simply a view, reguardless of moral,
|
|
435 logical, or ethical values. To say that good and evil are evident,
|
|
436 is accepting pre-defined values. Start from the beginning (foundation)
|
|
437 and work your way there, or start from here (acceptence of belief)
|
|
438 an work your way back to the foundation. But don't start from the middle
|
|
439 and go both ways - unless you wish to discuss mysticism, cults, religions,
|
|
440 belief systems, cultures, etc. anything that has a prominent double-
|
|
441 standard within a system that accepts only a single standard.
|
|
442
|
|
443 Gee, more mindless drivel.
|
|
444
|
|
445 Hagbard, looking a little more interested, but still slightly
|
|
446 bored with the lecture. c'mon, turn up the heat a little
|
|
447 more 'n get the kettle going, just be sure to not let it
|
|
448 boil over!
|
|
449
|
|
450 PS. as for the comment "just do it because it feels good" and the
|
|
451 mudslinging on that, well, you seem to forget that most
|
|
452 acceptances are done FOR THAT REASON. Do you thing people convert
|
|
453 to Christianity because they wish to torture themselves? Of
|
|
454 course not! They want to have a comfortable conscience.
|
|
455 Gee, we can't have that! ;->)
|
|
456
|
|
457 {}
|
|
458 {}
|
|
459
|
|
460 "Gee, more mindless drivel" - I don't know which is worst right now,
|
|
461 me or my writing!
|
|
462
|
|
463 H. Celine, feeling like a half-guru!
|
|
464
|
|
465 {}
|
|
018=Usr:287 Ralph Steadman 07/30/89 17:44 Msg:4177 Call:22955 Lines:100
|
|
466 Too tired to think...
|
|
467
|
|
468
|
|
469 CUCUMBERS ARE BETTER THAN MEN BECAUSE....... The average
|
|
470
|
|
471 cucumber is at least six inches long. Cucumbers stay hard for a
|
|
472
|
|
473 week. A cucumber won't tell you size don't count. Cucumbers
|
|
474
|
|
475 don't get TOO excited. A cucumber never suffers from
|
|
476
|
|
477 performance anxiety.
|
|
478
|
|
479 *************
|
|
480
|
|
481 Cucumbers are easy to pick up. You can fondle cucumbers in a
|
|
482
|
|
483 supermarket... and you know how firm it is before you take it
|
|
484
|
|
485 home.
|
|
486
|
|
487 *************
|
|
488
|
|
489 Cucumbers can get away any weekend. With a cucumber you can get
|
|
490
|
|
491 a single room and you won't have to check in as 'Mrs
|
|
492
|
|
493 Cucumber'. A cucumber will always respect you in the morning.
|
|
494
|
|
495 You can go to the movie with a cucumber and see the movie At a
|
|
496
|
|
497 drive in you can stay in the front seat. A cucumber can always
|
|
498
|
|
499 wait until you get home. A cucumber won't eat all the popcorn.
|
|
500
|
|
501 A cucumber won't drag you out to a John Wayne Film Festival.
|
|
502
|
|
503 *************
|
|
504
|
|
505 A cucumber won't ask: 'Am I first?' Cucumbers don't care
|
|
506
|
|
507 wheather you're a virgin. Cucumbers won't tell other cucumbers
|
|
508
|
|
509 you're a virgin. Cucumbers won't tell anyone you're not a
|
|
510
|
|
511 virgin. With cucumbers, you don't have to be a virgin more than
|
|
512
|
|
513 once. Cucumbers won't write your name and number on men's room
|
|
514
|
|
515 wall. Cucumbers don't have sex hang-ups. Cucumbers won't ask:
|
|
516
|
|
517 'Am i the best','How was it?' 'Did you come?', 'How many
|
|
518
|
|
519 times?' Cucumbers aren't jealous of your gynecologist, ski
|
|
520
|
|
521 instructer or hair dresser. Cucumbers won't ask about your last
|
|
522
|
|
523 lover or speculate about your next one. A cucumber will never
|
|
524
|
|
525 make a scene because there are other cucumbers in the
|
|
526
|
|
527 refrigerator. A cucumber won't mind hiding in the refrigerator
|
|
528
|
|
529 when your mother comes over. No matter how old you are you can
|
|
530
|
|
531 always get a fresh cucumber.
|
|
532
|
|
533 *************
|
|
534
|
|
535 Cucumbers can handle rejection. A cucumber won't pout if you
|
|
536
|
|
537 have a headache. A cucumber won't care what time of the month
|
|
538
|
|
539 it is. A cucumber never wants to get it on when your nails are
|
|
540
|
|
541 wet. A cucumber won't give it up for lent. With a cucumber, you
|
|
542
|
|
543 never have to say your sorry.
|
|
544
|
|
545 **************
|
|
546
|
|
547 Cucumbers won't leave whisker burns, fall asleep on your chest
|
|
548
|
|
549 or drool on the pillow. A cucumber will never give you a
|
|
550
|
|
551 hickey. Cucumbers can stay up ALL night and you won't have to
|
|
552
|
|
553 sleep in the wet spot.
|
|
554
|
|
555 ***************
|
|
556
|
|
557 A cucumber won't work your crossword in ink. A cucumber isn't
|
|
558
|
|
559 allergic to your cat. Cucumbers never answer your phone or
|
|
560
|
|
561 borrow your car. A cucumber won't eat all your food or drink
|
|
562
|
|
563 all your liquor. A cucumber doesn't turn your bathroom into a
|
|
564
|
|
565 library. Cucumbers won't go through your medicine chest. A
|
|
019=Usr:367 Mark Derby 07/30/89 20:52 Msg:4178 Call:22958 Lines:9
|
|
566
|
|
567 L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_snailhead_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_
|
|
568
|
|
569 If it weren't for "evil", then "good" wouldn't look so good, would it?
|
|
570
|
|
571 Cucumbers are good for a Pimm's Cup, too.
|
|
572
|
|
573 L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_
|
|
574
|
|
020=Usr:352 Katie Kolbet 07/30/89 21:50 Msg:4179 Call:22961 Lines:8
|
|
575 Alright, what's all this Cucumber stuff?
|
|
576
|
|
577
|
|
578
|
|
579
|
|
580 Hagberd, have you heard of the most original moralist in England, and Alfred
|
|
581 P.
|
|
582 Doolittle? (FROM MY FAIR LADY!!!!!)
|
|
021=Usr:116 Michael Gray 07/31/89 02:26 Msg:4180 Call:22968 Lines:10
|
|
583 ______________________________________________________________
|
|
584 Mikey,
|
|
585 Wonderful! Just saw your list-o-disks... again.
|
|
586 (Omigosh! Bright lightning outside! Time for my back-ups!)
|
|
587 Anyway, back to disk. I went back over my list; in order to
|
|
588 catch up I will need the disks you have listed: 90-99.
|
|
589 (More Blue Light, with accompanying chorus.)
|
|
590 _____________see_you_on_Thursday__________________________mg__
|
|
591 swob: I missed that one. Thanks for the explaination.
|
|
592 ____________________________________________________mr_gumby__
|
|
022=Usr:84 Michael Miller j 07/31/89 09:07 Msg:4181 Call:22971 Lines:6
|
|
593 &*&*&*&*'s
|
|
594 Just lurking. Oh where oh where has my little inept but sincere muse gone?
|
|
595
|
|
596 An Astral Dreamer
|
|
597 &*&*&*&*'s (Speaking of a metephorical muse.)
|
|
598
|
|
023=Usr:4 Milchar 07/31/89 23:04 Msg:4182 Call:22984 Lines:4
|
|
599 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
|
|
600 CM: I require disks 97-99, plus one or two ancient history (near Jan 87
|
|
601 I believe, let me check on that).
|
|
602 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Milch +++++++++++++++++++++++++++
|
|
024=Usr:219 Friar Mossback 08/01/89 08:58 Msg:4183 Call:22989 Lines:6
|
|
603 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
|
|
604 Mikey-
|
|
605 What are disks going for these days? What if you had to buy the whole set?
|
|
606 On MS-DOS? How about with disks provided?
|
|
607 Friar
|
|
608 [][][][][][][][][][][][][] Friar [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
|
|
025=Usr:287 Ralph Steadman 08/01/89 18:12 Msg:4184 Call:22994 Lines:100
|
|
609 696969696969
|
|
610 JAPAN TOPS IN BANK ASSETS:-7/26/89
|
|
611 For the first time ever, the 10 largest banks in the world are all
|
|
612 Japanese, according to American Banker's annual rankings based on assets.
|
|
613 Citicorp - the biggest U.S. bank, assets: $203.8 billion - fell from No. 10
|
|
614 last year to No. 12. It was displaced as No. 10 by Mitsubishi Trust, assets
|
|
615 $210 billion.
|
|
616 The reason the Japanese have the world's 10 largest banks is partially due
|
|
617 to the rise in the yen's value vs. other currencies. That's made the value of
|
|
618 their assets grow. Plus, savings rates are high in Japan, so deposits have
|
|
619 ballooned. However, Japanese banks aren't the world's most profitable,
|
|
620 although recent figures show their profits are improving. U.S. banks fare
|
|
621 better.
|
|
622 HUD PROGRAM A LOSER, PAPER SAYS:-7/20/89
|
|
623 A HUD home-fixup loan program has cost taxpayers at least $300 million
|
|
624 since 1979, according to a USA TODAY review of HUD audits. Despite the losses
|
|
625 and demands it be scrapped, the program is still operating under Department of
|
|
626 Housing and Urban Development Secretary Jack Kemp. Price tag of the growing
|
|
627 HUD scandal: $2.5 billion and climbing.
|
|
628 HOUSE HAS EYE ON IRS OFFICIALS:-7/26/89
|
|
629 House investigators say they have found serious integrity problems and
|
|
630 misconduct by some senior officials at the Internal Revenue Service. A one-
|
|
631 year investigation revealed that IRS national office officials ignored
|
|
632 wrongdoing by senior managers in Washington, D.C., and elsewhere. Also, that
|
|
633 alleged misconduct was often investigated superficially, allowing wrongdoers
|
|
634 to go free.
|
|
635 WORKERS BLOW WHISTLE ON IRS:-7/27/89
|
|
636 IRS workers Wednesday charged managers with ethical misconduct and
|
|
637 intimidation of whistleblowers. Current and ex-employees told a House
|
|
638 Government Operations subcommittee the problem was compounded by wrongdoers
|
|
639 frequently escaping punishment and the investigations unit lacking
|
|
640 credibility. The hearings come after an investigation of abuse of power
|
|
641 throughout the IRS senior management level.
|
|
642 IRS ACCUSED OF BLOCKING HUNT:-7/28/89
|
|
643 The IRS - battered by employee charges of wrongdoing - was accused by a
|
|
644 congressman Thursday of blocking an investigation of a drugs-for-guns
|
|
645 operation between Arkansas and Central America. Rep. Bill Alexander, D-Ark.,
|
|
646 said the Internal Revenue Service wouldn't allow investigators to talk with
|
|
647 IRS drug investigator William Duncan about the smuggling operation.
|
|
648 ANOTHER MISMANAGED HUD OFFICE:-7/28/89
|
|
649 In April 1988, auditors for the Department of Housing and Urban
|
|
650 Development found more than $1 million in uncashed checks and money orders in
|
|
651 boxes and desk drawers - some sitting for more than a year - in the agency's
|
|
652 Jackson, Miss., office. The money came from everything from sales of HUD
|
|
653 properties to loan application fees to earnest money on home purchases,
|
|
654 auditors said.
|
|
655 REP. - PIERCE MIGHT HAVE LIED:-8/1/89
|
|
656 Former Housing Secretary Samuel Pierce and his top aide might have lied
|
|
657 under oath to congressional investigators, Rep. Tom Lantos, D-Calif., chairman
|
|
658 of the subcommittee investigating the HUD scandal, said Monday. He cited
|
|
659 testimony ex-aide Deborah Gore Dean gave a Senate panel two years ago that
|
|
660 contradicts testimony provided by Pierce.
|
|
661 IRS ACCUSED OF BLOCKING HUNT:-7/28/89
|
|
662 The IRS - battered by employee charges of wrongdoing - was accused by a
|
|
663 congressman Thursday of blocking an investigation of a drugs-for-guns
|
|
664 operation between Arkansas and Central America. Rep. Bill Alexander, D-Ark.,
|
|
665 said the Internal Revenue Service wouldn't allow investigators to talk with
|
|
666 IRS drug investigator William Duncan about the smuggling operation.
|
|
667 COOKING WITH THE IRS:-7/28/89
|
|
668 IRS workers want to help out in the kitchen, says USA WEEKEND's July 28-30
|
|
669 issue. The IRS Employees Cookbook, out this August, is chock full of non-
|
|
670 taxing recipes. Dishes include Loss-agne, 1040 E-Z Pound Cake and Divine
|
|
671 Dividend Peanut Butter Cookies. Rest assured, the profits from the cookbook
|
|
672 will go to the publishers, not the IRS.
|
|
673 SANDINISTAS MARK REVOLUTION:-7/20/89
|
|
674 Before a crowd of more than 100,000 chanting, flag-waving Nicaraguans
|
|
675 celebrating the 10th anniversary of the Sandinista revolution, President
|
|
676 Daniel Ortega Wednesday struck a new conciliatroy tone and appealed for
|
|
677 "serenity" in Nicaragua, Thursday's Washington Post reports.
|
|
678
|
|
679 OAS HIT TEAM WANTS MORE TIME:
|
|
680 A three-nation Organization of American States mission dispatched to
|
|
681 Panama singled out Gen. Manuel Noriega Wednesday as the key problem in solving
|
|
682 Panama's political and economic woe. It sought and was expected to get four
|
|
683 more weeks to complete its task - finding a solution that ousts Noriega. The
|
|
684 extension of the OAS mission would be its second since the group was formed in
|
|
685 mid-May.
|
|
686 KHASHOGGI REMAINS IN JAIL:-7/27/89
|
|
687 Saudi Arabian financier Adnan Khashoggi, 54, is still in jail, despite a
|
|
688 lower court ruling he could be freed on $10 million bail. Prosecutors appealed
|
|
689 and Khashoggi - charged with fraud for business dealings with former
|
|
690 Philippine leader Ferdinand Marcos and wife Imelda - must stay in jail until a
|
|
691 ruling on appeal is made.
|
|
692 U.S. SAYS CONTRAS MUST GO:-7/28/89
|
|
693 The United States shifted policy Thursday and joined 14 other United
|
|
694 Nations Security Council members in calling for the disbanding of the
|
|
695 Nicaraguan Contras as part of the Central America peace plan. The resolution,
|
|
696 adopted by consensus, appealed to all nations to halt military aid to
|
|
697 guerrillas in the region. But it does allow continued humanitarian aid to the
|
|
698 Nicaraguan rebels.
|
|
699 Presidential and parliamentary elections in Nicaragua are set for Feb. 25,
|
|
700 1990. The U.N. and the Organization of American States have agreed to provide
|
|
701 poll watchers. Most of the Contras have been living with their families in
|
|
702 border camps in Honduras since Congbess halted military aid to them in
|
|
703 February 1988.
|
|
704 U.S. HOSTAGE IN DEEP PERIL:-8/1/89
|
|
705 The presumed hanging death of Marine Lt. Col. William Higgins leaves the
|
|
706 fate of other hostages in the balance, especially Joseph Cicippio's, a U.S.
|
|
707 citizen threatened by his captors with execution Tuesday. The Revolutionary
|
|
708 Justice Organization - the Shiite Moslem group holding Cicippio - vowed he
|
|
026=Usr:287 Ralph Steadman 08/01/89 18:49 Msg:4185 Call:22995 Lines:57
|
|
709 .......................oops, miscounted lines.................
|
|
710 U.S. HOSTAGE IN DEEP PERIL:-8/1/89
|
|
711 The presumed hanging death of Marine Lt. Col. William Higgins leaves the
|
|
712 fate of other hostages in the balance, especially Joseph Cicippio's, a U.S.
|
|
713 citizen threatened by his captors with execution Tuesday. The Revolutionary
|
|
714 Justice Organization - the Shiite Moslem group holding Cicippio - vowed he
|
|
715 would be killed at 11 a.m. EDT Tuesday unless Israel freed the Shiite cleric
|
|
71& Israel kidnapped.
|
|
717 U.S. Middle East experts agree Israeli's kidnapping of a Shiite cleric
|
|
718 last week will strain U.S.-Israel ties. Monday, Senate GOP Leader Robert Dole
|
|
719 of Kansas vented that feeling when he said, "Perhaps a little more
|
|
720 responsibility on the part of the Israelis would be refreshing." But the Bush
|
|
721 administration says it does not blame Israel for the execution of Lt. Col.
|
|
722 William Higgins.
|
|
723 The presumed death of U.S. hostage Lt. Col. William Higgins leaves 21
|
|
724 missing and believed held hostage in Lebanon. Nine are U.S. citizens. They are
|
|
725 also four Britons including one with dual Irish citizenship, three Iranians,
|
|
726 two West Germans, an Egyptian, an Italian and a Lebanese-French.
|
|
727
|
|
728 AGENCY SAYS TAKE CARE IN KENYA:
|
|
729 The U.S. government is warning tourists to stay away from Kenya. The U.S.
|
|
730 Department of State action comes in the wake of Thursday's attack on a U.S.
|
|
731 tour group in Kenya in which one person died. The warning pins recent violence
|
|
732 on "heavily armed wildlife poachers" and urges U.S. residents visiting Kenya
|
|
733 to travel in groups with a guide from a "reputable safari firm or a game
|
|
734 ranger."
|
|
735 TOPIC - FREEING HOSTAGES:
|
|
736 Brian Jenkins, head of the terrorism research program at the RAND Corp., a
|
|
737 private, non-profit research organization in Santa Monica, Calif., and Peggy
|
|
738 Say, sister of Terry Anderson, the longest-held hostage, talk with USA TODAY's
|
|
739 Barbara Reynolds and Wendy Buchert about freeing hostages.
|
|
740 HOW SHOULD WE RESPOND TO THE EXECUTION OF LT. COL. WILLIAM HIGGINS?
|
|
741 JENKINS: Rather than the use of force, the response has to be, to a
|
|
742 certain degree, tranquil. It is unfortunate to see opportunities in tragedies,
|
|
743 but we ought to take it as an occasion for opening a dialogue to see what we
|
|
744 can do to resolve the entire hostage episode before further tragedies occur.
|
|
745 DOES THIS EXECUTION SIGNAL THAT OTHER HOSTAGES WILL BE KILLED?
|
|
746 JENKINS: Insofar as we are able to sort out the groups within the murky
|
|
747 milieu of Lebanon, those people who were holding Higgins are believed to be
|
|
748 different from those holding the other hostages in Lebanon. We still believe
|
|
749 that Iran has a measure of influence over the others.
|
|
750 DID ISRAEL INITIATE THE EXECUTION BY KIDNAPPING THE MOSLEM LEADER?
|
|
751 JENKINS: In the Middle East, sometimes one precipitated action leads to
|
|
752 another precipitated action. In combating terrorism, one has to be very
|
|
753 careful not to use tactics which appear to be indistinguishable from the
|
|
754 tactics of the terrorists themselves.
|
|
755 HOW ARE HOSTAGES' FAMILIES REACTING TO U.S. ACTION?
|
|
756 SAY: I urge President Bush and the Congress to use restraint in responding
|
|
757 to reports of the hanging of Lt. Col. William Higgins by his kidnappers. I
|
|
758 have spoken with relatives of Joseph Cicippio, whom Shiite Moslem extremists
|
|
759 say will be the next to be killed if Sheik Abdul Karim Obeid is not released
|
|
760 Tuesday. Cicippio's family is saying what I am saying - violence begets
|
|
761 nothing but violence.
|
|
762
|
|
763 amen.
|
|
764 696969696969696969
|
|
765
|
|
027=Usr:47 John Dilks 08/01/89 19:21 Msg:4186 Call:22997 Lines:4
|
|
766 A nice well placed tactical nuke would help the most.
|
|
767 Everytime they kill a hostage, nuke a village.
|
|
768 pretty soon they should start to get the idea.
|
|
769 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
|
|
028=Usr:343 black art 08/01/89 19:38 Msg:4187 Call:22998 Lines:11
|
|
770 Nothing's Boy...
|
|
771 Now climbs the Sprials of his light...
|
|
772 His Tick-Tock muscles measures...
|
|
773 In it's closed circle.....
|
|
774 His bloods own free flowing....
|
|
775 Ups will bring him down....
|
|
776 ... to the clouds of Zero...
|
|
777
|
|
778 Leaving the world alittle more sureal than I found it,
|
|
779 ** Black Art **
|
|
780 @#@#@#@##@#@#@#@#
|
|
029=Usr:368 Nemesis Warlock 08/01/89 21:35 Msg:4188 Call:22999 Lines:10
|
|
781 [(*)---_ [(*)---_ [(*)---_ [(*)---_ [(*)---_ [(*)---_ [(*)---_ [(*)---_
|
|
782 So, good citizens, what manner of topic traverses the hall this night? When I
|
|
783 lahappened upon the Inn, all was quiet save for the gnawing of mice. . .
|
|
784 In truth, can it be said that those worthy folk who consider themselves the
|
|
785 true patrons of Innisfall have returned?
|
|
786
|
|
787 Nemesis
|
|
788
|
|
789 (10 Points extra to anyone who catches the reference & border shape!!!)
|
|
790 [(*)---_ [(*)---_ [(*)---_ [(*)---_ [(*)---_ [(*)---_ [(*)---_ [(*)---_
|
|
030=Usr:84 Michael Miller j 08/01/89 21:48 Msg:4189 Call:23000 Lines:4
|
|
791
|
|
792 Don't look upon the shape that's forming. Lest observation should destroy
|
|
793 it.
|
|
794
|
|
031=Usr:33 Mike Stanfill 08/01/89 22:01 Msg:4190 Call:23001 Lines:88
|
|
795 /*/*/*/*/*/*/*
|
|
796 I should probably answer this first: Hagbard (I think) makes the
|
|
797 very good point that the fact that something "feels good" is the
|
|
798 actual reason people do lots of things. Even in self-sacrificing
|
|
799 things, often they are looking forward to something better - that
|
|
800 is, something that *feels* better. If I imply that "if it feels
|
|
801 good, do it" is a bad philosophy, I either think pleasure is bad
|
|
802 (Stoicism?), or I mean by "feels good" something different from
|
|
803 what most people actually practice. As I think everyone out there
|
|
804 will agree, pleasure is good. Therefore my one option is left.
|
|
805 What I mean by "feels good" is this: that a whole bunch of
|
|
806 (often conflicting) urges all come along and demand gratification.
|
|
807 Most people, when they say that they 'want' to do something, do
|
|
808 not mean that ALL their desires point them toward that action.
|
|
809 They usually mean that the faction with the most combined strength
|
|
810 points in that direction. To the person who believes in morals,
|
|
811 some of these things he wants to do are good, and some are bad.
|
|
812 He is certainly free to choose what he does not *WANT* to do, and
|
|
813 sometimes does because he sees that his desires conflict with his
|
|
814 morals (sometimes not, but that's another story). But to the one
|
|
815 who does not believe in morals, to say that a particular want
|
|
816 (that is, a sum of desires) runs contrary to his beliefs is to
|
|
817 say nothing in particular about it. He has no grounds on which
|
|
818 to deny whatever want he has.
|
|
819 I freely admit that these wants may be for things not
|
|
820 immediately available. He may refuse some of his desires which
|
|
821 want to have the convenience of eating at McDonald's in order
|
|
822 to satisfy *stronger* desires which want to save money for some
|
|
823 reason. He does not see that reason as better than the convenience;
|
|
824 he can only say it is what he wants more. It could be anything a
|
|
825 person might want.
|
|
826 Hagbard is, of course, right in saying that people become
|
|
827 Christians because of their conscience. Being forgiven for all
|
|
828 the bad things you ever did also gives you a good feeling, but
|
|
829 that feeling is prompted by the change that comes in the
|
|
830 conscience. Note that I have separated the conscience from the
|
|
831 feelings which it may produce. The conscience itself is logical,
|
|
832 weighing desires and actions against the person's beliefs. When
|
|
833 one discovers he has done something wrong, he feels bad about it.
|
|
834 In time, these feelings become associated with certain actions or
|
|
835 thoughts (or whatever happened to be similar through many such
|
|
836 experiences). These feelings may reflect the actual wrongness of
|
|
837 an action, or they may be something completely neutral. If you
|
|
838 pulled the wings off flies at a certain window when you were young,
|
|
839 you may feel bad when you lean on a windowsill. This does not mean
|
|
840 that the window is bad, and your conscience will tell you this.
|
|
841 The thing that conditioned the bad feeling also tells you when that
|
|
842 feeling is not logical or appropriate. But the person who rejects
|
|
843 morality cannot make this judgement, since he rejects the authority
|
|
844 of the conscience. He may say that 'since it is not logical to
|
|
845 dislike a window, I can ignore this feeling,' but he must make the
|
|
846 same judgement for other feelings, since no feelings are logical.
|
|
847 Judgement of motives is a moral activity. He may say that 'since
|
|
848 there is no morality, then surely this feeling is unfounded and
|
|
849 therefore can be ignored,' but he must say the same for all other
|
|
850 feelings and banish all motivations from his mind. He must accept
|
|
851 all feelings or reject all feelings, because he has renounced the
|
|
852 only basis he has for comparing them.
|
|
853 To people who believe in morals, some feelings are more
|
|
854 morally correct than others. Such people give precedence to the
|
|
855 feelings the conscience agrees with. Both the Moral and the Amoral
|
|
856 may have the same feeling that they want to do something, but the
|
|
857 Moral can test that feeling and determine if it is morally correct or
|
|
858 not (testing it against the standards as he understands them), either
|
|
859 obeying or denying it accordingly. The Amoral can only lump it in
|
|
860 with all his other feelings to consider in forming his actions. His
|
|
861 actions may be logical progressions toward his ends, but his ends
|
|
862 (that is, the things he wants to do) are necessarily arbitrary.
|
|
863
|
|
864 NOTE: By the Amoral, I by no means mean to say the *Immoral*. The
|
|
865 Immoral sees some want of his as conflicting with his idea of
|
|
866 moral conduct, yet proceeds to act on it anyway. The Amoral
|
|
867 cannot do so, since he rejects his own (and all other) under-
|
|
868 standing of morality, and therefore has nothing with which to
|
|
869 examine the motive. Indeed, the only person who can be
|
|
870 immoral is the Moral.
|
|
871
|
|
872 More on other things later....
|
|
873
|
|
874 Timely quote follows |
|
|
875 \/
|
|
876
|
|
877 "Here's a good joke to do during an earthquake: Straddle a big
|
|
878 crack in the earth, and if it opens wider, go, 'Whoa! Whoa!' and _
|
|
879 flail your arms around, as if you're going to fall in." /#)
|
|
880 -Jack Handey, "Deep Thoughts" n n n (#/
|
|
881 / ~~~ ~~~ \/
|
|
882 /*/*/*/*/*/*/* -swob (a Self-Willed Orange Blancmange) /___/____\__\
|
|
032=Usr:116 Michael Gray 08/02/89 05:07 Msg:4191 Call:23006 Lines:10
|
|
883 L---!----!----!--------------------------------------------!----!----!---R
|
|
884 Nemesis: I whould say that Inisfal is no longer. The land in time
|
|
885 that has sparked so many tales and tellers to life has vanished with all
|
|
886 its surroundings when all light, all time, all being was destroyed as
|
|
887 the universe that was Inisfal exploded.
|
|
888 In the wake of such a monumental event came the birth of
|
|
889 BackWater Message System II. -adherent
|
|
890 (I suppose you had to be there.)
|
|
891 L----!----!----!-------------------------------------------!----!----!---R
|
|
892
|
|
033=Usr:370 Lenny Miller 08/02/89 15:13 Msg:4192 Call:23013 Lines:3
|
|
893 This is to Mark Derby, If you read this please just leave a message for me is a
|
|
894 any one out there
|
|
895
|
|
034=Usr:84 Michael Miller j 08/02/89 17:13 Msg:4193 Call:23016 Lines:18
|
|
896 &*&*&*&*'s
|
|
897 Wouldn't it be nice if somebody donated a hard drive for BWMSII? Then we
|
|
898 could have more then two disks online, and perhaps a selection of some of
|
|
899 the better archive disks.
|
|
900
|
|
901 Just A Thought.
|
|
902
|
|
903 While Innisfall may have died, the fiction has not. Though it has been fairly
|
|
904 sparse these last several disks. From what I can see, the creative juices
|
|
905 dried up all over Portland a couple of years ago. Since then things have
|
|
906 been sporatic at best.
|
|
907
|
|
908 BTW, a good debate. One of the beI've seen!
|
|
909
|
|
910 An Astral Dreamer (Who hopes he hasn't scared anybody away by saying things are
|
|
911 going well.)
|
|
912 &*&*&*&*'s
|
|
913
|
|
035=Usr:4 Milchar 08/02/89 23:22 Msg:4194 Call:23025 Lines:8
|
|
914 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
|
|
915 CM: Okay, I went back over the Online Archives and saw that 8610?? thru
|
|
916 8703?? are missing, and of course I don't have disks 97-99. Trivia fact:
|
|
917 Did ya know the Backwater archives take up 10 Meg after compression?
|
|
918 ++++++++++++
|
|
919 Well, well. Did I detect a MiG pass by? I believe I saw you waiting at
|
|
920 a bus stop across from the Downtown Hilton the other morning...
|
|
921 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Milch +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
|
|
036=Usr:498 Hagbard Celine , 08/03/89 01:53 Msg:4195 Call:23028 Lines:38
|
|
922
|
|
923 {}
|
|
924
|
|
925 Dried up indeed! Poo Foo on You! Surely, there shall be more stories
|
|
926 to come, as long as their is a Backwater to recieve them.
|
|
927
|
|
928 Whatever happened to impromptu writing?
|
|
929
|
|
930 As for the debate towards emotional/logical, I must give the other
|
|
931 person (actually, I WISH to give) credit; my instruction in philosophical
|
|
932 matters is primarily pratical and garnered from what observations
|
|
933 I have made within the limited confines of American Culture. I think
|
|
934 that you will find Humans to be conflicting; I have always told my friends
|
|
935 that life is a conflict, and nothing more. Emotions form both the
|
|
936 basis of survival and the need to propetuate (reproduce & propogate without
|
|
937 difficulty, ie, manipulate conditions to a limited extent so as to
|
|
938 make propogation more favorable), but mankind's limited logic and
|
|
939 concrete understanding form another drive within him, yet it is an
|
|
940 artificial one (ie, non-instinctive) that can be directed by
|
|
941 itself. When the primal programming of insticts and emotions
|
|
942 appear, they are not directly apperent (ie, logical), yet they often
|
|
943 present problems when combined with the artificial drives of
|
|
944 Ethics, Morality, and Logic. This is not to say that any of those
|
|
945 three should be done away with, I'm simply stating that mankind
|
|
946 does what it wishes, but usually without considering the effects.
|
|
947 Sure, there could be world peace, no hunger, and better understanding
|
|
948 between cultures, but because mankind uses artificial methods of
|
|
949 perception (Money, Power, Material Goods, etc.) of his world, you
|
|
950 will find that this will not happen. The concept of property is
|
|
951 a twisted one, and you must be careful when tip-toeing through that
|
|
952 minefield!
|
|
953
|
|
954 Ack! More Mindless Drivel! Methinks I need to come up with
|
|
955 a new story - maybe on the next disk...
|
|
956
|
|
957 Hagbard Celine, slowly regaining himself as a human instead of
|
|
958 a "citizen".
|
|
959 {}
|
|
037=Usr:219 Friar Mossback 08/03/89 08:11 Msg:4196 Call:23032 Lines:40
|
|
960 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
|
|
961 Hagbard -
|
|
962 On Blue Parrot there is currently a contest going about the Borfle Quee.
|
|
963 You might try a story out here, get it refined, and then enter it there.
|
|
964
|
|
965 Milch-
|
|
966 Do you get downtown often? The place you thought you saw MiG is right next
|
|
967 to my office. If you get here often, I have been known to spring for lunch
|
|
968 on occasion.
|
|
969
|
|
970 All-
|
|
971 My neighbor suggested that we go ahead and declare war on Lebanon and Iran
|
|
972 for their acts of terrorism. Then we could blow up the countryside and not
|
|
973 violate the articles of the Geneva Convention.
|
|
974 What do you think? His reasoning is that they are all Islamic fanatics
|
|
975 anyway, and therefore are of no real use to the rest of the world, and their
|
|
976 greatest goal in life is to die for their god, so it would be helping them
|
|
977 out rather than hurting them.
|
|
978 Now since I don't believe in death in that sense, I am not sure that he is
|
|
979 wrong. I am opposed to war, but more through logic than emotion. But there
|
|
980 is a certain logic to helping people get where they want.
|
|
981 I notice that congress has given President Bush carte blanche to respond
|
|
982 "in an appropriate manner" to the current crisis. This morning I heard that
|
|
983 Joseph Cicippio had been given a four hour reprieve, which the politicians
|
|
984 jumped on as showing that their diplomacy had worked.
|
|
985 What should the US response be? The former is one extreme, and on the other
|
|
986 side I have heard "Well, they were stupid enough to be there, it's their
|
|
987 problem." Is it time to go back to the days of Teddy Roosevelt? Will George
|
|
988 Bush get really mad? Will the beaver ever lose that silly grin?
|
|
989
|
|
990 AD-
|
|
991 Things are going well. And that usually doesn't cause a mass exodus, but
|
|
992 rather, a cautious enquiry such as "Is it OK if I participate?" We have seen
|
|
993 that time and again. And the answer is always "Yes." We have a good group
|
|
994 here, and it keeps changing. As for a hard drive, I think the two disk
|
|
995 system is part of the character of BWMSII, as it was of BWMS. I liked BWMS
|
|
996 a little better, because it was quaint. When you are old enough to have
|
|
997 nostalgic feelings over older systems (and you may be, I have no idea.), then
|
|
998 you know you have been around computers toooooooo long!
|
|
999 [][][][][][][] Friar, at the bottom, holding the whole disk on his head [][][]
|