619 lines
37 KiB
Plaintext
619 lines
37 KiB
Plaintext
LIST
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FILE ON
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MARGIN IS 22
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STATUS: ALL ALLOWED
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NUMBER OF LINES: 629
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1 If you are in need of help, you need but ask....
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2 *********************** REMOVED: 4 NOV 83 ***************************
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3 Welcome to BWMS (BackWater Message System) Mike Day System operator
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4 ************************************************************
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5 GENERAL DISCLAIMER: BWMS IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY INFORMATION PLACED ON
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6 THIS SYSTEM.
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7 BWMS was created as an electronic bill board. BWMS is a privatly owned
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8 and operated system which is currently open for use by the general public.
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9 No restrictions are placed on the use of the system.
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10 It is intended that the system be normally used for messages and
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11 advertisments by the users. As the system is privatly owned, I retain the
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12 right to remove any and all messages which I may find offensive
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13 to me. Additionally because of the limited size of the system, it will be
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14 periodically purged of older messages. (only 629 lines of data can be saved)
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15 The saved information will be cycled to drive 'B' while the information on
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16 drive 'B' will be archived, and a fresh disk will be installed in drive 'A'.
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17 To leave a message, type 'ENTER' and use ctrl/C or break to get out
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18 of the enter mode. The message is automaticly stored.
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19 If after entering the message you find you made a mistake,
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20 use the replace command to replace the line.
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21 To exit from the system, type 'OFF' then hang up.
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22 Type 'HELP' to see other commands that are available on the system.
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23 ==============================================
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24
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25 God is Holy,
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26 Man is Not,
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27 Man made whiskey,
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28 God made pot.!
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29
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30
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31
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32 RE: THE BIT ABOUT DESIGN BEING APPARENT IN THE WORLD, IT IS INTERESTING TO
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33 NOTE THAT MANY MORE PROGRAMMERS AND ENGINEERS THAN SCIENTISTS ARE RELIGIOUS.
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34 I'M AFRAID I MUST ADMIT (BEING ONE OF THE PROGRAMMERS) THAT THIS FORMER
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35 GROUP HAS A CERTAIN SORT OF STRAIGHT LINE MENTALITY. WHENEVER CREATIONISTS
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36 TROT OUT A PET 'SCIENTIST' TO SUPPORT THEIR VEIWS, HE MOST OFTEN TURNS
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37 OUT ACTUALLY TO BE AN ENGINEER, AN ADMINISTRATOR AT A UNIVERSITY, A FAKE,
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38 OR A FAILED SCIENTIST. ENGINEERS AND PROGRAMMERS THINK IN TERMS OF DESIGN
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39 WHEN IT COMES TO ALMOST ANYTHING.
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40 THE FACT THAT SOMETHING HAS AN INTRICATE INTERNAL MAKEUP PROVES NOTHING
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41 AT ALL. THIS ARGUMENT IS STRICTLY NON SEQUITER. THIS PARTICULAR TRAIN
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42 OF THOUGHT HAS BEEN DISSEMINATED FROM THE TOP OF THE MORAL MAJORITY
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43 PYRAMID, SO I ASSUME THAT FALWELL ET AL HAVE GREAT HOPE FOR IT. WE ASSUME
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44 THAT ALL THINGS HAVE BOTH COMPLEX AND SIMPLE ASPECTS...
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45 IT IS JUST ANOTHER WAY OF SAYING THAT THE CREATIONISTS CAN'T IMAGINE
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46 ANY OTHER WAY FOR THINGS TO HAVE COME ABOUT THAN THE WAY THEY ARE ALREADY
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47 BAISED TOWARDS. BUT THATS NOT THE SOLUTION, THATS THE PROBLEM.
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48 ANYWAY, D AND DEB ARE BOTH IGNORING WHAT I CHALLENGED THEM WITH BEFORE:
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49 THAT EVOLUTION OF THESE COMPLEX CREATURES IS NOT IN DOUBT - BECAUSE IT
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50 GOES ON RIGHT NOW, EVERY MINUTE. WE CAN SEE IT HAPPENING IN REAL TIME
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51 EXPERIMENTS. WE GIVE A COLONY A STIMULUS OR VECTOR AND THE COLONY OF
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52 ORGANISMS SHIFTS IN IT'S CHARACTERISTICS. DARWIN, ET AL DID NOT COME
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53 UP WITH THEIR THEORIES SOLELY FROM FOSSILS - THE MOST PERSUASIVE EVIDENCE
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54 CAME FROM LIVING CREATURES.
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55
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56 D AND DEB: I WOULD LIKE TO ESTABLISH SOMETHING. DO YOU BELIEVE THAT THE
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57 OTHER MAJOR RELIGIONS OF THE WORLD ARE EQUALLY AVALID AS THE CHRISTIAN
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58 RELIGION YOU YOURSELVES ESPOUSE? IF NOT, EXPLAIN TO US WHY YOU THINK
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59 CHRISTIANITY IS BETTER. I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW IF I SHOULD ARGUE AGAINST
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60 RELIGION IN THE ABSTRACT, OR JUST THE TENENTS OF YOUR PARTICULAR
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61 RELIGION, OR IF YOU ARE MEMBERS OF SOME GROUP OR CULT THAT IS NOT MAIN
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62 LINE CHRISTIANITY WHICH ONE. ALSO, COULD YOU TELL US WHICH VERSION OF
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63 THE BIBLE YOU WILL BE USING. I WAS UNABLE TO FIND THE WORD EMBRYO IN
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64 THE VERSION I'M USING. OR DO YOU REGARD ALL VERSIONS AS EQUALLY VALID.
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65
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66 NOT, I SHOULD SAY, THAT I THINK WE SHOULD REFER TO THE 'GOOD BOOK' AS
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67 THE MAIN SOURCE OF EVIDENCE FOR OR AGAINST - THAT WOULD REDUCE US TO
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68 PROOF BY 'REDUCTIO AD ABSURBAM' - THE EXAMINATION OF CONTRADICTIONS.
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69 CHRISTIANS ALWAYS RESOLVE THESE IN THE END BY REWRITING THE 'WORD OF
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70 GOD' INTO A MORE 'CORRECT' AND 'MODERN' TRANSLATION WHEN THEY CAN'T JUST
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71 BE IGNORED. NOT THAT A PERFECTLY CONSISTENT BIBLE SHOULD BE THE
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72 PROOF OF CHRISTIANITY BEING CORRECT. THERE ARE OTHER RELIGIONS THAT
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73 ARE MUCH MORE CONSISTENT INTERNALLY, BUT I SUSPECT THAT D AND DEB
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74 WOULD REJECT THEIR CLAIMS.
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75
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76 SOMEBODY UP THERE USED THE PHRASE 'CROSS-EXAMINE'. WOULD ONE OR THE OTHER
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77 OF YOU BE MORE COMFORTABLE CRITICIZING THE SCIENTIFIC VIEW THAN
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78 DEFENDING THE (MORMON, METHODISTS, CHURCH OF THE FOUR SQUARE BOOK OF CHRIST,
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79 CATHOLIC, JEWISH OR WHATEVER) POINT OF VEIW? HOW ABOUT IF ONE OF YOU DOES
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80 ONE AND THE OTHER THE OTHER? OR SOME SUCH. *BOTH* POINTS OF VEIW SHOULD BE
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81 BOTH PROPOSED AND DEFENDED, AS THE POSITION OF CRITIC IS MUCH TOO EASY
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82 TO GET AWAY WITH INTELLECTUALLY
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83
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84 AARON: THERE ARE A LOT OF DEAD HEADS IN THE WORLD, BUT NOT ALL OF THEM HAVE
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85 LOW IQ'S. MOST PEOPLE WITH HIGH IQ'S, REMEMBER, NEVER DO ANYTHING PARTICUL-
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86 ARLY WORTHWILE IN THE LARGE SENSE. ALSO, I *DO* BELIEVE THAT LOTS OF PEOPLE
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87 SPEND BIG BUCKS FOR MINOR AMUSEMENTS. FOR INSTANCE,A HALLOWEEN PARTY I WAS
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88 AT LAST NIGHT HAD A DISCUSSION ABOUT MICROWAVE OVENS. MOST PEOPLE THERE
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89 CONFESSED THAT THEY RARELY USED THEIRS FOR ANYTHING BUT HEATING COFFEE AND
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90 PASTRY. THESE THINGS COST UP TO $2,000. I THINK THAT PEOPLE SPEND THEIR
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91 MONEY ON WHATYEVERS POPULAR, USUALLY, AND RIGHT NOW COMPUTERS ARE POPULAR.
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92 SO IN ADDITION TO DEFENDING MY POSITION THAT THE PEOPLE WHO DIAL UP THESE
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93 BBS'S (GOOD ABBREV!) NOT NECESSARILY BEING ALL ELIGIBLE FOR MENSA, I WILL
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94 ADD ANOTHER: BEING REALLY SMART IQ WISE PROBABLY DOESN'T MEAN YOU ARE
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95 THAT MUCH SMARTER THAN PEOPLE THAN COMPLETELY AVERAGE PEOPLE. TOO MANY
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96 OTHER FACTORS DETERMINE WHO IS REALLY 'SMART'. THESE INCLUDE QUALITIES
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97 LIKE DETERMINATION, LEADERSHIP, SENSE OF PURPOSE, WISDOM, EXPERIENCE,
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98 QUALITY OF GOALS,AND A NUMBER OF OTHERS. I ARGUE THAT THESE ALL CAN BE
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99 MORE IMPORTANT THAN I.Q. IN DETERMINING A PERSONS FATE OR THEIR VALUE TO
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100 SOCIETY. REMEMBER THAT EINSTEIN WOULD *NOT* HAVE QUALIFIED FOR MENSA -
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101 HIS I.Q. WAS NOT IN THE TOP TWO PERCENT. ALSO REMEMBER THAT I.Q. TESTS
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102 ONLY TEST A FEW (ALBEIT VERY IMPORTANT) SKILLS. NEW VERSIONS OF INTELLI-
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103 GENCE TESTS JUST COMING OUT TEST OVER A HUNDRED DIFFERENT SKILLS, INCLUDING
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104 THINGS LIKE THE ABILITY TO RAPIDLY ASSESS A GIVEN SOCIAL SITUATION FOR
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105 THE SUBTLE NUANCES IN IT (SOMETHING MEN ARE OFTEN BAD AT - REMEMBER MEN
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106 DESIGNED THE OLD I.Q. TESTS) AND OTHER IMPORTANT BUT HITHERTO NEGLECTED
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107 ABILITIES LIKE THE ABILITY TO DRAW OR DO MUSIC OR UNDERSTAND MOTIVATION.
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108 A NUMBER OF THESE ARE ABILITIES THAT TECHNO-NERDS ARE INFAMOUS FOR BEING
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109 NO GOOD AT. AND THESE ABILITIES ARE MUCH MORE RELEVANT TO ONES QUALIFICA-
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110 ]TIONS FOR COMMENTING ON POLITICS OR MORALS THAN SPATIAL RECONITION
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111 SKILLS, OR CALCULUS.
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112 SO WATCH OUT, CAUSE THE 'TOP 10 PERCENT' IS LIKELY TO BE REDEFINED ANY
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113 TIME. AND IT WILL BE THE RARE EXCEPTION AMONG THE CURRENT WINNERS OF THE
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114 HIGH IQ SWEEPSTAKES WHO DOESN'T LOSE SOME OF HIS OR HER SUPPOSED EDGE.
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115 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!HROTHGAR, THE MODEST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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116 P.S. THE WORD FOR HE AND SHE, SINGULAR OR PLURAL, IS KOIE IN CANTONESE.
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117 WONDER WHY WE CAN'T COME UP WITH ONE LIKE THAT, OR JUST START USING THE
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118 WORD 'THEY' LIKE MOST OF US WANT TO - A WORD WITH NO SEXUAL OR NUMERIC
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119 BIAS INDICATING SOME SIZE GROUP OR SET OF PEOPLE, SPECIFICATION NOT
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120 NECESSARY?
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121 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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122
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123 *****************************************************************
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124 I must say, I am confused at the tone you have taken on the
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125 backups. After screaming to have them, now you are screaming
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126 foul. What do you want?! I am supplying the backups via my
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127 company (U.S. DIGITAL) as a service, not to make profit. The
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128 prices were calculated to only recover the cost of the work, not
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129 to make a profit. They are set at the 'Break even point'. If you
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130 feel very strongly about this then I will remove the disks and
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131 not offer them for sale or otherwise. But as I said, I am
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132 confused at your reaction to this. As for the aspect of who owns
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133 rights excetera, I might point out that these messages were left
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134 on a 'public' BBS, and as such are public property. Meaning that
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135 anyone can read and or redistribute these scrawings as they wish.
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136 Not just me! Sigh.... Try to do something nice and this is the
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137 thanks I get.....
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138 ****** A very confused and frustrated CISTOP MIKEY **************
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139 ********************* 30 oct 83 *** 10:00PM *********************
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140 As a result of this I am withdrawing the archives until you decide
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141 What it is that you really want.
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142 *****************************************************************
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143
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144 So that you won't think that Americans are the only ones who
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145 are crazy, here are some excepts from British auto collision
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146 reports.
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147
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148 The accident was due to the other man's narrowly missing me.
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149
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150 I collided with a stationary trolley coming in the opposite
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151 direction.
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152
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153 In order to avoid a collision, I ran into the other car.
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154
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155 The other car collided with me without even warning me of
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156 his intention.
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157
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158 There were plenty of onlookers but no witnesses.
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159
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160 The water in my radiator accidentally froze at midnight.
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161
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162 My car had to turn very sharply because of an invisible
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163 truck.
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164
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165 I was just in the act of scraping my nearside on the curb
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166 when the accident happened.
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167
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168 I collided with a stationary tree. There was no damage done
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169 to the tree as the gatepost will testify.
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170
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171 The accident was entirely due to the road bending.
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172
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173 The witness gave his occupation as that of a gentleman, but
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174 it actually would be more correct to call him a garage
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175 proprietor.
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176
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177 The other man changed his mind, and I had to run into him.
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178
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179 One wheel went into the ditch. My foot jumped from brake to
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180 accelerator, leaped across the road to the other side, and jumped
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181 into the trunk of a tree.
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182
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183 I remember nothing after passing the Crown Hotel until I
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184 came to and saw police officer Brown.
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185
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186 A bull was standing nearby annd a fly must have tickled him,
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187 because he gored my car.
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188
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189 A cow wandered into my car. I was later informed that the
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190 unfortunate cow was half-witted.
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191
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192 She suddenly saw me, lost her head, and we met.
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193
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194 If the other driver had stopped a few yards behind himself
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195 it certainly would not have happened.
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196
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197 I was taking a friend home and following the lampposts,
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198 which were in a straight line. Unfortunately there was a bend in
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199 the road bringing the right-hand lamppost in line with the left,
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200 so of course I landed in a ditch.
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201
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202 I bumped into a lamppost that was obscured by human beings.
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203
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204 I heard a horn blow and was struck violently in the back.
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205 Evidently a lady was trying to pass me.
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206
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207 I misjudged a lady crossing the street.
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208
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209 Coming home I drove into the wrong house and then collided
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210 with a tree I haven't got.
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211
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212 Three women were talking to one another, and when one
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213 stepped forward, I had to have an accident.
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214 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
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215 Didja hear about the poor family? Scraped for six months to buy the
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216 cheapest of home computers...and then it went condo. Yowza, yowza.
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217 MIKEY! MIKEY! PLEASE OFFER THE DISKS, PAPER COPIES ETC. I HAVE BEEN WAITING
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218 FOR MONTH FOR SOME WAY OTHER THAN COPYINGTO MY PRINTER.
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219 HALF THE TIME I MISS A DISK OR TWO AND DON'T KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON
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220 JUST LIKE NOW, WHO HAD THE NERVE TO COMPLAIN? IF THERE IS ANY ONE THAT DOES
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221 NOT LIKE THE IDEA THEN THAYTS THEIR PROBLEM. IT'S A FREE COUNTRY AND I FOR
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222 ONE WANT MY RIGHT TO BUY THE PAPER COPIES.!!!!!
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223
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224 #################C.Y.M##############################10/31 12:14AM###########
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225
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226 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
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227 MIKEY, DID I MISS SOMETHING? THOUGH I DON'T SEE ANYTHING ON THIS (OR
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228 THE LAST) DISK ABOUT THE BW RELEASE, I KNOW YOU WERE HOPING TO DO SO.
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229 NOW I SEE THAT SOMEONE (WHERE OR HOW I DON'T KNOW) HAS DUMPED ON YOU
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230 ABOUT IT. EITHER IT WAS ELIMINATED FROM THE DISK, OR IT WAS SAID TO YOU
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231 THROUGH SOME OTHER MEDIUM. I DON'T KNOW WHAT WAS SAID, BUT POINT ME TO
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232 'EM AND I'LL PUNCH 'EM IN THE KNEECAP!!
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233 TO WHOMEVER: MIKEY PROVIDES US WITH THIS FORUM AT HIS EXPENSE, FOR OUR
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234 USE HOWEVER WE PREFER (CERTAIN LEVELS OF DECORUM NOTWITHSTANDING).
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235 ANYTHING PLACED HEREIN IS HIS TO DO WITH AS HE SEES FIT, AND I THINK
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236 THAT EVERYONE KNOWS IT. IF YOU WRITE ON THE WALLS OF A PUBLIC FORUM,
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237 YOU CERTAINLY CAN'T EXPECT YOUR WORDS TO FOREVER REMAIN PRIVATE PROPERTY.
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238 I WAS LOOKING FORWARD TO THE RELEASES, AND OBVIOUSLY CYM WAS TOO. I
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239 ALWAYS ATTEMPT TO REACT TO SUBJECTS IN AS OBJECTIVE A MANNER AS POSSIBLE,
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240 BUT SEEING THE OFFENDED TONE IN MIKEY'S LAST MESSAGE HAS RAISED MY IRE.
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241 IN OTHER WORDS............ BACK OFF!!!!!!!!!
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242
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243 d, YOUR LAST MESSAGE WAS BEAUTIFUL!! I WOULD LOVE TO COMMENT ON IT,
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244 BUT RIGHT NOW, I SEETHE OVER THE OBVIOUSLY NOXIOUS REACTION TO THE FAVOR
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245 OUR GRACIOUS HOST ATTEMPTED TO GIVE US. AS I KNOW THAT I DON'T WRITE
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246 LOGICALLY WHEN I'M IN THIS STATE, I'LL WAIT UNTIL A LATER TIME TO
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247 COMMENT. GROWL....
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248
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249 [][][][][][][][][][][]PAM![][][][][][][]
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250
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251 <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
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252
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253 pam/cym:
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254 $13 per printed unit (1 8 inch disk), 12 units availiable, each
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255 unit covered approx 5 BW "disks"......the actual disk (for CP/M
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256 people ) are/were availiable at $10 each (same number avail, same
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257 content)...total collection $120 for disk, $156 for paper
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258 VISA and MC , of course...
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259 add: i think it was 12, may have been 13....
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260 the disks i refer to at $10 each had the data on them ; this
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261 isn't the "new" cost..
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262 each disk prob holds approx 300k bytes of data, at approx 1000
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263 char/page that would be 300 pages of output, considering ribbon
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264 and paper and print head costs $13 might be a little on the
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265 low side....prob the better deal,,,,few can read the cp/m anyway....
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266
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267 who knows? maybe some "soothing tones" are just what mike needs
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268 right now... anyone out there good at soothing?
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269 Aaron
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270 <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>(2:35)<><><><><><><>
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271 D:
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272 RE my reluctance to expose my views (cont.)
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273 --do you see some of the problem? I find that my belief system is quite
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274 complex and somewhat inconsistent, although quite worn and comfortable.
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275 I can give most adherents to most religions a sympathetic ear, although
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276 I will not accept another set of beliefs. I consider myself quite religious
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277 and (mostly) non christian for example. I accept the existance of a creator
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278 or PRIME CAUSE, but find it hard to limit him/her/it to humanly
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279 comprehensible stature as most christians seem to insist on doing. I
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280 consider the old testament a unique tribal record of the Jewish people,
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281 whose accuracy was preserved by the custom of stoning to death one who
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282 changed any portion of the sacred book. This has mostly preserved the
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283 original words. Unfortunately, our present cultures do not accord this
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284 protection to other sacred writings, so the new testemant, koran, book of
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285 morman, bahgvad ghita, etc. are all suspect to some degree.
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286 I consider christ to be a great teacher, on par with budda, mohammed
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287 and many others. I will accept that christ is the "son of "god"", but not
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288 as a particular distinction -- we are all children of the infinite, and
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289 you yourself are quite as holy as any of the religious teachers of the past.
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290 With that rather opinionated pronouncement, i should also point out that
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291 i am quite likely wrong in most if not all of my beliefs. However, they
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292 have served well, fit comfortably, and are large enough to comfort me when
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293 the weather turns cold.
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294 ----------------Dusty-----------------------------------------------------
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295 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][] 0734 Halloween [][][][][][][][][]
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296
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297 Mikey- I am very interested in the archives as well. I think that the
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298 prices quoted by Aaron are quite reasonable, and I am more than
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299 willing to pay that amount. I will start saving today. Is
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300 there a chance of buying the paper copies in two parts ? That
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301 might make it easier for some of the less affluent. (Read "more
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302 in debt to outside creditors") Thanks.
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303
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304 D: Very well put. I am an agnostic, so will not participate, but I am
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305 very interested in the discussion. Something is missing in my life
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306 at least, and it may be religion, it may be drugs. I don't know.
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307 Keep it going.
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308
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309 ?: It may be true that the problem is mostly economic, but what is the
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310 solution ? If we stop paying the farmers to let fields lie fallow,
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311 market prices will drop, farmers will go broke, and no one eats.
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312 If we send the surplus to third world countries, then the balance of
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313 trade figures go crazy. Again, at a later date, no one eats.
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314 Where do we make the tradeoffs ?
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315 In the United States, there is often criticism of emerging nations
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316 about distribution of wealth. The haves get more, the have nots
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317 don't. This may seem harsh, but in reality it is best for that
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318 nation. It takes large amounts of capitol to accomplish the build-
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319 ing of new industries, and keeping the new money in the hands of
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320 a few is the only way to accomplish this. Unpopular position I
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321 realize, but true. Some people must go hungry for the good of the
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322 rest. Easy for me to say, I am told, but if it were me ...
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323 Yes, I would yell the loudest, I am sure. But that would not make
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324 right.
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325
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326 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] djj [][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
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327
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328 ***************************************************
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329 Don't bother me, I'm sulking.....
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330 ******************** CISTOP MIKEY ******************************
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331 P.S. 12 disks $9.95 ea paper $12.95 ea 200K-240K ea per disk
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332 aprox 50pages paper.
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333 (After the 4th complaint I decided to remove all comments
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334 and offering until things quieted down a bit and all could
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335 come to some kind of consensis. I had one outright threat
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336 sigh... anyway, one possiblity is that if we can get the
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337 volume up enough, I can probably get the price down further.
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338 How much depends on the number of orders. particularly the
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339 paper since I can go to offset printing which would be cheaper
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340 if I can get a min of 10 orders per. This would bring it down to
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341 about $9 per. Same with disks, about $7 per in quantiy 10.
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342 Another thing that can be done is to do the work on low end
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343 priority meaning it could be anywheres from a couple of days to
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344 a couple of months to get done. But this way it would not take
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345 time away from other money making projects, and thus could
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346 be done for esentially no labour costs. I would have to recalculate
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347 this to find out exactly what the cost would be. Any thoughts?
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348 ************ CISTOP MIKEY *************************************
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349 P.S. Aaron, no, the threat was not from you. (But alas, I think
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350 your message may have started the whole mess. Sigh, what a bunch
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351 of loonies.)
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352 ***************************************************************
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353 P.P.S. My thanks to those of you who have expressed your heartfelt
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354 feelings.
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355 ******************************************************************
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356 <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
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357
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358 sigh... (heartfelt)
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359 My apologies, Mike. I didn't see the additional complaints roused by my
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360 comments, but I can certainly see how they might have come about, con-
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361 sidering some of the more erratic factions out there. And my own rather
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363 perverse sense of black humor. sigh....
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364
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365 if you decide to go offset on the printing; i would order the set....
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366 (read "order" as "be able to afford, and order" )
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367 dl: I am agnostic; and highly religous. (in reference to one of your
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368 more recent texts, you mentioned that my own "stand" as to what
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369 I am was rather unclear..)
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370
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371 Larry:
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372 It seems you have been vindicated from the heinous crime of
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373 text killing. good job, eh? let's get some back bacon.
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374
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375 all:
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376 My pending arrangment for house-sharing abruptly fell through.
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377 Does anyone out there have any leads as to where I can find person(s)
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378 looking for a house mate? More concisely, I NEED SOMEPLACE TO RENT.
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379
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380 Aaron
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381 <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
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382 @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
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383 What reasons were given for complaining about Mikey's offer-
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384 ing the archives? Of all the stupidest things I've ever,
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385 I've never heard of someone complaining about a service
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386 someone is offering when that person doesn't even have to
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387 offer the service in the first place! I wouldn't complain
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388 about ANYTHING, if I were you, whoever you are! Stupid...
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389 stupid...stupid...
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390 @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
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391 #########################################
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392 I SUGEEST WE ALL KEEP AN AN EYE ON THE BOARD TO SEE WHO'S MISSING, MAYBE
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393 THAT WILL TELL US WHO HAD THE GALL TO THREATEN OUR BELOVED MIKEY. AS FAR
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394 AS I AM CONCERNED WHOEVER IT WAS SHOULD BE PERSONA-N0N-GRATIA AROUBND HERE
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395 G
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396 FROM NOW ON. I KNOW IT WASN'T AARON AS HIS COMMENT OBVIOUSLY WAS IN JEST O
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397 AND I FAIL TO SEE HOW ANYONE COULD HAVE TAKEN HIM SERIOUSLY:
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398
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399 ################C.Y.M.#################################10/31 4:22PM#########
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400
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401 A
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402 P.S. AARON: CHECK WITH TOM MATHAE ON BIT BUCKET, HE HAD A HOUSE FOR RENT NOT
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403 LONG AGO, MAY STILL HAVE SOMETHING AS I THINK HE HAS SEVERAL.
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404 #################C.Y.M.#################
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405 Hrothgar:
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406 You hit the nail on the head about Bible literalisms. A week or so ago in
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407 Time magazine there was an article concerning a new revision of the Bible to neutralize the 'sexist' references.
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408 I.E. our 'Father who are in Heaven.......' I am essentially atheist, but this is STUPID. After all, for the last 1000
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409 years or so, the Bible as such was acceptable and uncriticized. (comparatively). Now, because of some 'modern
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410 reinterpretation' they have decided to change it. I believe that if you consider yourself a member of a religion, you should
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411 accept ALL its tenets, no matter what. After all, once the typical member starts to pick and choose, the religion
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412 disintegrates into what would be more accurately described as a political party.
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413 Religionists can't have it both ways: Either they should accept their teachings as literally true without
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414 interpretations, or accept ALL other interpretations as equally valid.
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415 $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
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416 Need lots of money quick ?? You'll have to go a long way to beat this deal !!! Hi.. I would
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417 to offer you a chance to get on the same bandwagon I did...while its still rolling. Last year while in
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418 lifornia I received a rags to "riches" letter whibh claimed an opportunity to make more than $20,000 (legally)
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419 m a $25 investment. Although I'm not a gambler and I was quite skeptical (it sure looked like a chain letter to me),
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420 checked with the Post Office, and found that it was indeed legal and jumped right in, $25 in hand....Six weeks
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421 ter, I had received $21,350 from that initial $25 investment. Now I have received my second "riches" letter
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422 though the investment was $77, I didn't hesitate for a minute. But rather that using one of my business mailing
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423 lists, I thought that I'd offer fellow computerists a shot at this chance.
|
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424 ...and it doesn't cost you a penny.
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425
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426
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427
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428 ..........Remember,
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429 pportunity may knock but.........it won't knock the door down.........
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430
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431
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432 $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
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433 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 31 Oct 83 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
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434 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 19:39 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
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435 Well, Phantom, I had to laugh at your 'then why do my feet hurt?'
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436 but as for the rest of your 'rant & rave'--why, it didn't offend me in
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437 the least! (Sorry to let you down; I know you're as cheerful in your
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438 sword-fighting as when you clink ale glasses with a comrade.) In
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439 fact, you raised several excellent issues that I will put in my
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440 itinerary: your comment that few scientists "can give credence to
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441 the biblical version of creation" and your cry of 'play by the rules
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442 or don't play at all'. Perhaps you were thinking of the federal court
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443 trial in Little Rock, Arkansas where the Seventh-Day Adventists (and
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444 others) endeavored to put so-called "scientific creationism" into the
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445 schools--? They were soundly trounced, and rightly so, because what
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446 they wanted taught was NOT scientific and, aside from that, was not
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447 supported by the Bible! But I'll come back to that later; meanwhile,
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448 I wish to make clear that there is a definite distinction between their
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449 "creationist" dogma and the actual Biblical description of creation.
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450 Ah, the rules: I'm doing my best to follow the guidelines, both
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451 of logic and of the scientific method. If you will fault me, as our
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452 benevolent Hrothgar seems to, please be specific. I am not resorting
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453 to scoffing at anyone's views, nor am I dismissing evolution without
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454 a careful examination. It is not my intent to sweep anyone to my
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455 point of view by employing emotionalism, nor do I intimidate by the
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456 'tyranny of authority' method. Are there rules that I trangress upon
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457 unwittingly, perchance? Clarify them, then, and we will proceed.
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458 Hrothgar, your challenge regarding experiments & evolution-in-
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459 action have not as yet been addressed because I want to be specific
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460 in addressing what actually happened in these experiments, and am
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461 lacking the facts. Would you be so kind as to direct me to the
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462 literature that you found this in? Dave, consideration of mutants
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463 is now inscribed on my list...but may I ask you, and Dusty as well:
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464 does being comfortable with an explanation make it the truth?
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465 [Whoever it was that spoke after CYM (lines 404-413), you made an
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466 excellent point about why religions are so disunited! But I won't
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467 get side-tracked by that issue yet.]
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468 Pam and djj: your words of encouragement are like the crystalline
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469 pure waters of a stream espied by a weary traveller...I knew that one
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470 (two when Deb has time to come) against the entire Backwater crowd
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471 would be a formidable challenge--just fielding the responses takes
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472 hours!--but your words make my effort seem worth it!
|
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473 ...I'll be back Wednesday, with Deb in tow.
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474 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> d <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
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475 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] 2214 All Hollow's Eve [][][][]
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476
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477 Wanted - Female Dachsund or Dachsund Mix. (see I am not a heartless
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478 conservative all the time). We will give her a loving and healthy home
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479 with lots of play time. There are no
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480 children to bother her, but lots of affection to shower upon her. Please
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481 help us find the perfect dog. Puppy or adult is OK. Leave message here
|
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482 .
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483
|
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484 thanks, djj
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485
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486 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] djj [][][][][][][][][][][][][]
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487
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488 D:
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489 It was I who left the message addressed to Hrothgar. Unfortunately, the
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490 next message wiped out my signature.
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491
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492 All:
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493 I just got word (still unconfirmed) that the House of Representatives, in their infinite stupidity, has passed
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494 a bill that would not only make it illegal for (supposedly) free American citizens to own stock in South African companies,
|
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495 but also prevent them from owning gold in any form (except possibly for numismatic items (historical coins)).
|
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496 Since I know there are plenty of Statists out there, here's a pop quiz for all of you out there. First, during what years
|
|
497 in the past was it illegal for Americans to own gold? Second, let's hear your opinion: (a) What business is it of the
|
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498 government to decide if we may or may not own gold. (b) Why would the government even care (this is tricky; there IS a
|
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499 reason!!!!)
|
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500 I might remind the fellow systemites that it is possible for the government to commit unconstitutional acts, even if
|
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501 the Supreme court decides they are constitutional. (Dred Scott; look this one up in an encyclopedia if you don't know....)
|
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502 And to those of you who persist in the misguided belief that the US is the best/free-est, etc. country, what explains
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503 the government's persistent desire to meddle in the lives of its citizens?
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504 ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Anon ::::::::::::::::::
|
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505 P.S. I will later explain the reason government doesn't want us to own gold, for those of you who really don't know.
|
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506 ******************************************
|
|
507 WHILE SITTING HERE WATCHING THIS THING I NOTICED SOMEONE TRYING TO 'BREAK IN'
|
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508 TO BWMS. IF IT WASN'T SO BORING, IT WOULD BE FUNNY. OH WELL, JUST THOUGHT
|
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509 I'D PASS ALONG AN INTERESTING OBSERVATION. I GUESS SOME EITHER DON'T
|
|
510 BELIEVE OR DON'T KNOW THAT BWMS 'IS' THE SYSTEM.
|
|
511 *************** CISTOP MIKEY *****************************
|
|
512 (I WILL ADMIT THAT THERE ARE SOME SUPERVISORY COMMANDS, BUT THEY ARE SO
|
|
513 DEEPLY HIDDEN THAT IT NEAR IMPOSSIBLE TO GET THERE WITHOUT KNOWING HOW.)
|
|
514 (BUT EVEN WHEN THERE IT ISN'T MUCH, AFTER ALL OF WHAT USE WOULD ANYONE
|
|
515 REALLY HAVE FOR A COMPRESS COMMAND? THE ONLY REASON IT IS HIDDEN IS TO
|
|
516 PREVENT IDIOTS FROM USING IT AND THEN HANGING UP IN THE MIDDLE THEREBY
|
|
517 LEAVING THE SYSTEM IN A STATE OF LIMBO. IT WOULD STILL RUN, BUT THERE
|
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518 WOULD BE SOME CONFUSING TEXT WHERE THE COMPRESS WAS TERMINATED ON HANGUP.)
|
|
519 THE OTHER COMMAND ALLOWS ME TO GO TO 1200 BAUD FOR LOCAL OPERATION WHICH
|
|
520 WOULD SIMPLY LOCK OUT ANYONE ATTEMPTING IT. OF COURSE THE SYSTEM WOULD
|
|
521 RESTORE ITSELF ON HANGUP, SO IT WOULDN'T BE PERMINATE.)
|
|
522 **********************************************************************
|
|
523 ******************
|
|
524 ******************
|
|
525 I DO EXIST
|
|
526 I AM REAL
|
|
527 I DO COMMUNICATE
|
|
528 and despite the
|
|
529 name I do care how
|
|
530 people feel
|
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531
|
|
532 **********a pathy**
|
|
533 ******************
|
|
534 ...................................
|
|
535 Why such excitement about creationism vs evolution? Then Bible doesn't say
|
|
536 how God made the earth, or the creature on it. It gives some of the
|
|
537 ingredients only. As to the time involved, Genesis uses "day in at leasy
|
|
538 half a dozen different ways. God works outside 'natural' laws, and can
|
|
539 bend them to his own uses, as well as ignore them. He could easily use
|
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540 evolution to create man. We would never know it because we could never know.
|
|
541
|
|
542 now, to comment on some week old BWMS messages (been too busy to keep up)
|
|
543
|
|
544 Pam, you seem not to accept my using a person's words to describe him. Anon
|
|
545 claimed he was what he said he was. (He claimed he owed nothing to society)
|
|
546 If his own claim is true, my conclusion he is a parasite is correct; if he
|
|
547 lies he isn't a good citizen then either. Both ways, he used his words to
|
|
548 attack our system, and attempt to get others to cheat, which in itself (word
|
|
549 only) make my assesment true. In any case he offers no evidence to the co
|
|
550 contrary. Any excess over consumption he may produce is irrevelent as he
|
|
551 admits to keeping it for himself & his own uses. As to reaching conclusions
|
|
552 from incomplete data, I admit it isn't perfect, and the Aristotlian logic
|
|
553 will not accept it, but the methods of reaching valid conclusion from
|
|
554 incomplete data are well established, and now we know enough logic to show
|
|
555 know that they are valid often enough, and fail rarely enough to use.
|
|
556 All real world conclusions are made using these methods; only on paper
|
|
557 can the 'absolutely correct' Aristotlian logic work; it applies only when
|
|
558 the subject can be fully defined. For example, some years back one of our
|
|
559 ancestors saw a curve of orange, screamed a warning and raced up a tree.
|
|
560 He didn't need to see the tiger's eyes watching hungrily, or the teeth
|
|
561 ready to eat him, the sight of the tiger's back said they were there too.
|
|
562 A conclusion reached from incomplete data, yes, it could have been
|
|
563 something else, but. In this incomplete world we weigh probability, benfits
|
|
564 and costs and make a decision based on partial data. Errors are made, but
|
|
565 in the long run we do pretty well.
|
|
566 Not all of us here on BWMS are what we claim to be. I recognise this and
|
|
567 if "Anon" is the figment of some writers imagination, then my comment about
|
|
568 Anon applies only to Anon, not to Writer, whoever he may be.
|
|
569 Dom, you seemed to believe divorce is evil, by the comment " a promise once
|
|
570 made should be kept."forever. I must assume a marriage is made in love, and
|
|
571 when the thing falls apart, which some do, I can't see love requiring both
|
|
572 or either to suffer. People change. A mariage apart is no marriage, and your
|
|
573 question about is marriage only living together implies you mean it can
|
|
574 exist beyond the separation, it can't. Only the legal and very expensive
|
|
575 fiction then exists. But then who are we to enforce our ideas on what others
|
|
576 do? (As long as their acts don't infringe on us.)
|
|
577 /////////////////////////////////BAD\\\\\0615 am Nov 1\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
|
|
578 }
|
|
579 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
|
|
580 BAD, I FEEL THAT WHAT YOU SAID WAS TOTALLY UNNECESSARY (NO MATTER HOW
|
|
581 VALID). I AGREE THAT THE OPINIONS ANON EXPRESSED WERE THOSE OF A PARASITE,
|
|
582 AND I PERSONALLY FIND THEM ABHORRANT. ANON DESCRIBED HIS OPINIONS AND
|
|
583 VIEWS, BUT FEW OF HIS ACTIONS. AND IF HE LIES, HE IS A MEMBER OF THE
|
|
584 HUMAN RACE (DON'T TELL ME YOU NEVER LIE, BAD. I CAN ACCEPT MUCH, BUT
|
|
585 NOT THE POSSIBILITY OF YOUR SAINTHOOD). AND THE FACT HE OFFERS NO
|
|
586 EVIDENCE TO THE CONTRARY DOESN'T PROVE HE IS, AND NEVER HAS. NO EVIDENCE
|
|
587 HAS APPEARED THAT PLUTO DOESN'T HAVE LIFE OF SOME KIND, BUT THAT CAN'T
|
|
588 BE TAKEN TO MEAN PLUTO DEFINITELY HAS NO LIFE.
|
|
589 ON THE SUBJECT OF REACHING CONCLUSIONS FROM INCOMPLETE DATA, I DO
|
|
590 NOT DENY IT IS SOMETIMES NECESSARY. YOUR TIGER ANALOGY IS VALID, BUT
|
|
591 ONLY PARTLY APPLICABLE TO THIS CASE. IN THAT CASE, THE POSSIBILITY OF
|
|
592 THE TIGER REPRESENTS A DANGER TO LIFE, AND AS SUCH MUST BE ACTED UPON.
|
|
593 SITUATIONS WHERE CONCLUSIONS MUST BE REACHED FROM INCOMPLETE DATA ARE
|
|
594 THOSE WHERE ACTION MUST BE TAKEN *NOW*, AND WAITING FOR MORE COMPLETE DATA
|
|
595 WOULD BE HARMFUL TO A PROPER RESOLUTION. IN THE CASE OF ANON, IT WOULD
|
|
596 HAVE BEEN JUST AS EASY TO SAY "YOUR OPINIONS ARE THOSE OF A PARASITE",
|
|
597 RATHER THAN "YOU ARE A PARASITE". WHAT BENEFITS DO YOU (OR ANYONE ELSE)
|
|
598 DERIVE FROM SUCH UNCIVIL BEHAVIOR? ANON DOESN'T REPRESENT A THREAT TO
|
|
599 YOUR LIFE, ONLY YOUR EGO.
|
|
600 SOME MIGHT FIND IT INTERESTING THAT I'M DEFENDING ANON, WHEN IT'S
|
|
601 OBVIOUS FROM PAST ENCOUNTERS THAT WE ARE OPPOSED. BUT I DON'T DEFEND ANON.
|
|
602 THOUGH I TEND TO AGREE WITH BAD'S CONCLUSION, I DON'T SEE THE NEED OF A
|
|
603 CONCLUSION.
|
|
604
|
|
605 ON THE CONCEPT OF GOD, IF YOU DEFINE HIM AS 1) OMNIPOTENT;
|
|
606 2) OMNISCIENT; AND 3) OMNIPRESENT; THEN BY DEFINITION WE CANNOT PROVE
|
|
607 HE DOESN'T EXIST. BEING ALL POWERFUL, HE COULD HAVE CREATED THE EARTH
|
|
608 IN 6 DAYS (AS IN GENESIS) WITH THE GEOLOGICAL AND FOSSIL RECORD INTACT.
|
|
609 WHY? WHO KNOWS? BEING OMNISCIENT, HE COULD HAVE GOOD REASONS THAT ARE
|
|
610 TOTALLY BEYOND OUR COMPREHENSION (I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THE REST OF YOU,
|
|
611 BUT I'M NOWHERE CLOSE TO OMNISCIENT) THE REST OF MY MESSAGE HAS BEEN ERASED!! ARRGH!
|
|
612
|
|
613 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]PAM![][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
|
|
|