636 lines
39 KiB
Plaintext
636 lines
39 KiB
Plaintext
LIST
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FILE ON
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MARGIN IS 72
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STATUS: ALL ALLOWED
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NUMBER OF LINES: 629
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1 If you are in need of help, you need but ask...
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2 ********************** REMOVED: 29 OCT 83 **************************
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3 Welcome to BWMS (BackWater Message System) Mike Day System operator
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4 ************************************************************
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5 GENERAL DISCLAIMER: BWMS IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY INFORMATION PLACED ON
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6 THIS SYSTEM.
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7 BWMS was created as an electronic bill board. BWMS is a privatly owned
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8 and operated system which is currently open for use by the general public.
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9 No restrictions are placed on the use of the system.
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10 It is intended that the system be normally used for messages and
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11 advertisments by the users. As the system is privatly owned, I retain the
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12 right to remove any and all messages which I may find offensive
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13 to me. Additionally because of the limited size of the system, it will be
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14 periodically purged of older messages. (only 629 lines of data can be saved)
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15 The saved information will be cycled to drive 'B' while the information on
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16 drive 'B' will be archived, and a fresh disk will be installed in drive 'A'.
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17 To leave a message, type 'ENTER' and use ctrl/C or break to get out
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18 of the enter mode. The message is automaticly stored.
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19 If after entering the message you find you made a mistake,
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20 use the replace command to replace the line.
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21 To exit from the system, type 'OFF' then hang up.
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22 Type 'HELP' to see other commands that are available on the system.
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23 ========================================
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24
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25 PAM: SUGGEST YOU TRY A LITTLE EARLIER (SAY BETWEEN 8 AND 10)
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26 OTHERWISE AFTER 11 IT SEEMS TO BE 'WHO EVER IS THE FIRST
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27 TO CALL GETS IT FOR AS LONG AS THEY WANT'. ALSO THE MORNING
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28 IS A GOOD TIME TOO. (6 TO 12) I'M NOT SURE ABOUT THE
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29 AFTERNOON SINCE I HAVEN'T BEEN AROUND TO CHECK.
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30 (MAYBE WE SHOULD IMPLIMENT AN EVEN/ODD SYSTEM? IF YOUR
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31 NAME ENDS WITH AN EVEN LETTER YOU CALL ON EVEN DAYS, IF
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32 YOUR NAME ENDS WITH AN ODD LETTER YOU CALL ON ODD DAYS?)
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33 [WITH OUR LUCK EVERYBODYS NAME ENDS WITH AN EVEN LETTER!]
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34 JUST JOKING...
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35 ********* CISTOP MIKEY *********** 25 OCT 83 ***************
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36 P.S. DOM: THE DATA ON MONTY II YOU SPEAK OF IS ON DRIVE B
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37 STARTING AT LINE 24. (IT WAS ON TE SAME DISK AS THE ONE
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38 YOU ENTERED YOUR COMMENT.)
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39 ***********************************************
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40 <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
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41
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42 if it is the same film, I enjoyed it very much, PAM.....
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43
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44 PAM/ALEX
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45
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46 true, true....yet I submit Mormonism as my example and evidence
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47 of fesability; certainly we havn't had any large scale riots of
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48 Mormons crying "We've been lied to! Mormonism is purley arbitrary!"
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49 have we....?
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50
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51 Anon
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52
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53 I've heard that those various sugars can be incorporated into
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54 body fat..(groan!)....If you try to lose weight you could be in for it!
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55
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56 ALL
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57
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58 What? no people beating a path to my modem crying "Me! Me! let ME help
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59 him"???? I refer all to my despartate (though intoxicated) (?) plea
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60 for help on DB at LN 471. maybe you know a friend of a friend at TEK?
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61 or maybe HP? SRI? ANYPLACE?!?! --thx
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62
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63 Aaron
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64 <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
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65 post script---- dl, please examine my note at top of DB..........
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66 <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
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67 Aaron:
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68 I know just a slight smattering of the subjects you (drunkenly) brought up,
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69 but not enough to be able to help.... just enough to admire your bravery in attempting to ACTUALLY ACCOMPLISH somethin'!
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70 You might find a recent article in HIGH TECHNOLOGY magazine fascinating: Optical computing. A real mind-blower if there
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71 ever was one. Imagine doing a 1-million point FFT in 3 nanoseconds or so! (just take a 35mm picture).
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72 Perhaps you could alleviate some withdrawl symptoms with saccharin?
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73
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74 All:
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75 Let's hear some commentary on our little war in Grenada, garden spot of the Caribbean. Should we be there
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76 (not us personally, just our young'uns), and for how long. Reagan has unwittingly provided a marvelous new subject for
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77 us to pick apart in teeny-tiny detail.
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78 I think they oughtta search the island for a cork labelled 'inflate here', evacuate the island and pull out
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79 the cork. PPPPPHHHHHHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSSSSSSSSSSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!
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80 Splash!
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81 Seriously, what are we doing in Grenada? Let's hear from the peanut gallery.
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82 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Anon :::::::::::::::
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83
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84 I think being in Grenada is a good idea. The peoples lives on the island will be a lot better under a democracy rather
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85 than a communist dictatorship. Except for the marines, the fighting force was all volunteer, so don't anyone go
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86 screaming about American lives being lost. Most if not all the soldiers there are in the military to fight. It also is
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87 good training for the troops. I believe the Ranger drop was the first major combat jump since WWII. I also might point
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88 out that the neighboring islands requested U.S. assistance. I know I'm going to get crucified for my views by all the
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89 liberals out there, so take your shot, I have to go and watch the end of the A-Team.
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90 *******************dss**************************
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91
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92 <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
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93 i think that the best way to avoid the withdrawl symptomology is with
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94 more of the same brew. i try to reserve it for moments that i need to
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95 function irrespective of the relative discomfort; i wonder how I convinced
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96 myself that BW at 4am fit that criteria........
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97
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98 Optical, eh? well, unfortunatly my applications demand perfect accuracy
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99 (precision?); SAW or Optical techniques just aren't going to cut it. If
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100 Gallium Arsnide toys were availiable i would leap at the thought of using
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101 them, yet unfortunatly ECL seems to be the only viable solution at the
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102 moment...damn the speed/power product though! ....maybe if someone could
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103 just come out with a EICO kit called "josephson devices: basic experiments"
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104 I would consider that technology......
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105
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106 But do tell! every bit helps! where might your expertise lie?
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107 Aaron
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108 <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
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109
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110 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
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111 AARON, WE DON'T NEED MORMONS CRYING TO BE LET OUT AS THEY CAN LEAVE ANY
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112 TIME THEY WANT TO, OR WILL BE KICKED OUT IF THEY COMPLAIN TOO LOUDLY (I.E.
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113 THE WOMEN THAT HAVE TRIED TO CHANGE THE SYSTEM OF TOTALLY MALE ELDERS).
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114 BESIDES, SINCE THEY CAN LEAVE AT ANY TIME, MOST CAN AND DO IF (IF!) THEY COME
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115 TO A CONCLUSION THAT THE CHURCH IS FALSE. BUT WHAT YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT
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116 WAS AN ENTIRE WORLD SOCIAL STRUCTURE BASED UPON THIS SYSTEM, WASN'T IT? I
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117 HAVE NO COMPLAINTS ABOUT MORMONISM FOR THOSE THAT WANT TO LIVE THAT LIFE,
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118 BUT A WORLD BASED UPON IT ISN'T MY IDEA OF UTOPIA. ALSO, SINCE THERE ARE
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119 OTHER MODES OF LIFE AVAILABLE, SOMEONE LEAVING THE MORMON CHURCH IS ALREADY
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120 AWARE THAT HIS/HER CONCEPTS AREN'T ACCEPTED AS TRUTH BY OTHERS, SO IT
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121 WOULDN'T COME AS SUCH A GREAT SHOCK. BUT IF THE ENTIRE WORLD IS BASED ON
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122 SUCH A SYSTEM, THE SHOCK WOULD BE HUGE. BESIDES, I WAS POINTING OUT THAT
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123 THE 90%/99% SOLUTION YOU WERE ADVANCING WOULDN'T STAY AT THOSE FIGURES FOR
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124 LONG, AS MORE AND MORE REALIZED THAT THE TRUTHS OF THE CHURCH WEREN'T TRUTH.
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125 IF SOMEONE COULD COME UP WITH A SOCIAL STRUCTURE THAT WOULD SOLVE 90% OF
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126 THE WORLD'S PROBLEMS FOR 99% OF ITS POPULATION AS YOU PUT FORTH, I WOULD
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127 ACCEPT IT GLADLY. I JUST DON'T THINK THAT THE MORMON CHURCH IS IT,
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128 ESPECIALLY FOR WOMEN THAT BELIEVE THERE ARE THINGS IN LIFE OTHER THAN
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129 SERVING ONE'S MAN, KEEPING HIS HOME, AND BIRTHING HIS BABIES.
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130
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131 AARON, I'M SORRY THAT LAST BIT LOOKS SO EMOTIONAL. EXCUSE, PLEASE?
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132
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133 ON THE QUESTION OF GRENADA, IT WAS COMMENTED THAT IT WILL BE GREAT
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134 FOR THE PEOPLE THERE WHEN WE INSTALL A TRUE DEMOCRACY. WELL, IF WE INSTALL
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135 A DEMOCRACY, IT WILL BE THE FIRST TIME WE HAVE DONE IT TO A COUNTRY WE HAVE
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136 INVADED SINCE WWII. USUALLY, WE REPLACE A DICTATOR THAT IS OUR ENEMY WITH
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137 A DICTATOR THAT IS OUR FRIEND. I WOULDN'T EVEN ATTEMPT TO DEFEND ANY OF THE
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138 TYRANTS WE HAVE OVERTHROWN, BUT I DON'T SEE THAT WE HAVE DONE MUCH TO
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139 IMPROVE THE LOT OF THE PEOPLE OF THOSE COUNTRIES AFTER WITH OUR OWN DICTATOR.
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140 I DO THINK THAT REAGAN IS TOO QUICK TO SEND IN THE TROOPS, AND HE IS DOING
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141 EXACTLY WHAT HE ALWAYS SAID HE WOULD DO WHEN HE WAS GOVERNOR OF CALIFORNIA
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142 (AT LEAST HE WAS TOTALLY HONEST). EVEN MARGARET THATCHER, NOT KNOWN AS A
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143 PARAGON OF LIBERALISM, SAID TODAY THAT SHE THOUGHT THE INVASION WAS "ILL-
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144 ADVISED". I JUST HOPE HE DOESN'T GET US INTO PROBLEMS THAT ARE BEYOND THE
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145 SCOPE OF HIS ABILITIES TO HANDLE, AND AT THE RATE HE IS GOING, IT MAY HAPPEN.
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146
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147 [][][][][][][][][][][][]PAM.[][][][][][]
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148
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149 DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~
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150
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151 Mikey: Thank you for directing me to M II. Why I was unable to find it
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152 last night is beyond me. (My sugar consumption is minimal> Aaron sug-
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153 gested the possibility of obtaining copies of archived BW disks, which
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154 approximates a suggestion I have considered making (when I have less than
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155 ten other responses pending). Have you ever considered publishing BW
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156 in hardcopy form? Perhaps something of the nature of an unedited "yearbook"
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157 would be of minimal cost to ready for publishing; or an alternative
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158 (although more costly) would be an edited book of BW "hilights" spanning
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159 the years of its existence. I think the market for such an item would
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160 extend not only to BW'ers, but also to users of other systems, researchers
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161 in abnormal psychology, material seeking comedians, microtheologians, and
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162 perhaps even the general public.
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163 I have recently taken to recording a copy of those messages of per-
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164 sons who seem to have frequent "identity crisis" relapses (and forget who
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165 said what) but there are many other messages which would like to have a
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166 hard copy of, were it a little more convenient.
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167
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168 Leonard: Sorry, in my last response I forgot to mention an important point.
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169 You stated something to the effect that I should not interfere with someones
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170 beliefs as long as those beliefs pose a threat to society (something like
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171 that). I did address the question of whether or not education constitutes
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172 interference, but what I forgot to menton was the most curious aspect of
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173 that statement. You either missed or chose to ignore the main point of my
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174 argument which was that some of those beliefs, particularly the one that
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175 allows them to avert any feelings of guilt resulting from moral trans-
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176 gression by simply praying for forgiveness, are very much a threat to
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177 society.
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178
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179 Dave: Why do we deny the existence of a god? I suspect that my answer
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180 reflects, for the most part, that of other atheists; I have simply found
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181 no reason to believe that it does exist, but I have found considerable
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182 reason to believe that belief in a deity is a misconception. I have tried
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183 to outline some of those reasons in previous messages.
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184 With regard to your second question, the potential oppressive nature
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185 of any such organization, whether atheistic, deistic or even motivated
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186 by a completely different parameter, such as politics, is why I have long
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187 avoided such organization. Recently though, I have considered that the
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188 oppressive element might be eliminated by limiting the basic binding con-
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189 cepts of the organization. Opression, among other things is a product of
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190 hypocrisy; therefore, the theory is that by making a single statement as
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191 to a common belief of the members, such as "We believe that deities exist
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192 only in the human mind, not in reality", and avoiding lengthy dogma which
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193 rigorously defines every aspect of the members' conciousness, the members
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194 will not be required to profess a number of principles which are contrary
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195 to the basic nature of their being, or experiences, and hypocrisy will be
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196 thusly avoided.
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197 With regard to the third question, I believe that in the long-run, truth
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198 will offer the most peaceful and humane (politeness is practitioner-defined)
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199 solution to the problems of humankind. Since I am strongly of the belief
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200 indicated in the above quotes, to state otherwise would be a manifestation
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201 of the type of hypocrisy which I am attempting to avert.
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202
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203 Aaron: Is your navel direct-connect or accoustically coupled? If you
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204 whistle through your navel, that may well account for the ailments you
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205 have attributed to sugar.
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206
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207 PS: "Dirty" is an acceptable abbreviation of my handle. I was ac-
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208 tually given this handle long before BBS days, by a sweet (semi)innocent
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209 Japanese girl, so I imagine "Sukebe",
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210 the Japanese equivalent, would also
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211 be acceptable.
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212
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213 Sukebe ~ Dirty Ol' Man
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214
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215 DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~
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216
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217
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218 Grenada had a legitimate democracy before Maurice Bishop came to power
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219 How do you think he got elected? It was only after A coup take place in
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220 which Bishop was executed and a radical marxist seized power, that the
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221 U.S. (with the request of the O.E.C.S, organization of eastern caribean
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222 states) decided to act. The claim that American lives were in danger,
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223 while not the main reason also contributed to the decision. Except for
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224 Cuba and Haiti, I can't think of any other dictatorships in that area.
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225 *********************dss*****************
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226
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227 DOM: I can't figure out why my comments elicited your response. In any case,
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228 I don't remember ever having such a silly belief regarding the
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229 sky. I also don't see how you can justify your statements. There
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230 is a considerable difference between educating a child & "eliminating
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231 Christianity" (or any other religion). The essential tenets of
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232 most religions are not subject to proof, thus your "analogy"
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233 falls apart. Also, if you start with Christianity, where are you
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234 going to stop? Perhaps when anyone who disagrees with you has been
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235 "eliminated"? I made a point of stating that beliefs that are
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236 counter to the way the world works, will soon (VERY SOON) show
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237 their shortcomings.
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238 In case you haven't figured it out yet, while I feel kids
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239 deserve better treatment than they generally get, I don't think
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240 they should have "full adult rights". This is another reason why
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241 your analogy is "invalid".
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242 PAM: You (and others) seem to be ignorant of certain facts regarding
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243 the "public" airwaves. The FCC "grants title" to frequencies &
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244 (with the exception of AM broadcast radio, FM broadcast radio,
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245 & TV channels 2-83) IT IS ILLEGAL TO MAKE ANY USE OF A TRANSMISSION
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246 NOT DIRECTED AT YOU! They specifically mention "commercial use"
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247 among other things. Since HBO is charging for the reception of their signal,
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248 I believe the courts would rule that you were making "commercial
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249 use" of it.
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250 This may not be "right", but it IS the LAW.
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251
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252 Finally, someone on the last disk was getting morality & ethics confused!
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253 ______________________________Leonard__________________________
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254 ps. anyone want to discuss what rights kids should & should not
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255 have?
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256 ________________________________________________________________
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257 ########################################WELL, NOW, IT SEEMS THAT MR REAGAN
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258 HAS MOVED THE OK CORRAL TO THE CARRIBEAN. HOPE HE REALIZES THAT TO THE REST
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259 OF THE WORLD (M0STLY) AND TO THE RATIONAL MEMBERS OF THIS SOCIETY, HE IS
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260 WEARING THE BLACK HAT. WHY CAN'T THAT MAN REALIZE THAT HE IS NO LONGER ON
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261 WARNERS BACKLOT AND THAT THERE ARE NO RETAKES ALLOWED.
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262 @@@@@@@@@@@@@FLASH***************
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263 CBS JUST REPORTED THAT THE FIGHTING HAS INTENSIFIED. HOUSE TO HOUSE COMBAT
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264 8 U.S DEAD, 18 CIVILIANS DEAD.
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265 *********************************
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266 ALSO DOES EVERYONE REALIZE THAT NO JOURNALISTS ARE ALLOWED ON THE SCENE. CBS
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267 IS GETTING THEIR INFO FROM HAM RADIO AND THEY DID ATTEMPT TO FLY OVER THE
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268 AREA BUT WERE USHERED OUT BY US PLANES. SO MUCH FOR OUR 'DEMOCRACY'. ALL YOU
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269 FOLKS THAT BELIEVE WE SHOULD BE THERE SHOULD GET THEIR WAR GEAR TOGETHER AND
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270 HEAD OUT AT THEIR OWN EXPENSE. I DON'T LIKE PAYING TAXES FOR THE PURPOSE OF
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271 SETTING UP OUR IDEA OF DEMOCRACY ALL OVER THE WORLD. THERE'S AN OLD SAYING,
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272 "TAKE CARE OF YOUR OWN, THEN IF THERE ARE RESOURCES, TIME, AND ENERGY LEFT
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273 HELP OTHERS" IN OTHER WORDS WHY DON'T WE DO SOMETHING ABOUT THE POVERTY,
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274 INJUSTICE, EDUCATION ETC. RIGHT HERE IN THE U.S.A. BEFORE WE SQUANDER OUR
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275 RESOURCES ON THE REST OF THE WORLD, ESPECIALLY MILLITARILY!!!
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276 ###################C.Y.M.#############################10/26 10:34AM#########
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277 --------------------------------------------------------------------
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278 Hooray!!!!!!!!! I agree with the above message. Even thought I am a
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279 vet, I am getting tired of the US trying to force our way on the rest
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280 of the world. Why can't someone who is fiscally responsible and
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281 conservative also be temperate in world affairs?
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282 ---------- Tom 10/26 11:32 --------------
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283 Back your country!! Not your thoughts!!
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284
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285 Sure, Reagan did jump into it a little bit, but to sit here and
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286 argue whether or not we should have invaded Grenada is pointless!!
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287
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288 We are there, there are US citizens and military personel there,
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289 and to debate the existence of them is wrong...
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290
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291 This is exactly what happened in Vietnam...if it isn't a popular
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292 war (???) then the hell with it if I remember right...
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293 ----------------------
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294 ########################################
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295 TO ABOVE RE POINTLESS: JUST WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT. IT NOT ONLY
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296 IS OUR RIGHT BUT OUR DUTY TO DISCUSS THE ACTIONS OF MR. REAGAN! JUST AS IT
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297 WAS AND STILL IS THE DUTY OF ALL THINKING AMERICANS TO QUESTION OUR
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298 GOVERNMENT WHENEVER THEY STEP OUT OF LINE WITH OUR CONCENSOUS OF WHAT IS
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299 RIGHT. THISS APPLIES TO ALL!! NOT JUST THE LIBERALS, THE CONSERVATIVES, THE
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300 LEFT, OR THE RIGHT. WHEN WE CAN NO LONGER SPEEK UP THEN THE INVASIONS WILL
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301 BE INTO OUR OWN CITIES & TOWNS.
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302 I STILL CONTEND THAT WE HAVE NO RIGHT TELLING OTHERS HOW TO LIVE OR WHAT TYP
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303 E OF GOVERNMENT THEY SHOULD HAVE. THERE HAVE BEEN REVOLUTIONS BEFORE AND
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304 THERE WILL BE MORE IN THE FUTURE. IT IS NEITHER OUR PLACE OR RIGHT TO GET
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305 INVOLVED WHERE WE ARE NOT WANTED. SEEMS WE ARE EMULATING THE RUSSIANS NOW
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306 WITH THE MILITARY SOLUTIONS.
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307
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308 #################C.Y.M.#############################10/26 2:19PM############
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309
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310
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311 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] 1654 26-OCT-1983 []
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312
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313 AARON: RE 99% SOLUTION. HAVE YOU READ CATS CRADLE ? SOMEWHAT THE SAME
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314 PREMISE, AND IT DOES SEEM TO MAKE SENSE.
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315
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316 ALL: RE GRENADA. WHILE REAGAN SEEMS TO HAVE THE ECONOMY IN HAND, HE SEEMS
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317 TO HAVE A DISTORTED SENSE OF REALITY WHEN IT COMES TO FOREIGN POLICY.
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318 MAYBE WE SHOULD HAVE ONE PRESIDENT FOR DOMESTIC POLICIES AND ONE FOR
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319 FOREIGN POLICIES. THE LAST PRESIDENT THAT WE HAD WHO UNDERSTOOD
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320 FOREIGN AFFAIRS WAS NIXON. I AM NOT DEFENDING HIS ACTIONS AT HOME, HE
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321 WAS A CROOK, BUT HE DID DO WELL IN FOREIGN AFFAIRS.
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322
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323 PAM: IT IS ALWAYS EASY (SO FAR) TO GET ON IN THE AFTERNOON.
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324
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325 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] DJJ [][][][][][][][]
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326
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327 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
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328 I believe HBO is providing a service which must be paid for, not a good. If
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329 you want the service, then you pay for it. If you don't pay for it, that's
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330 piracy. (Did I say that right?)
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331 - - - - - - - - Mad Quark - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
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332 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 26 Oct 83 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
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333 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 19:33 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
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334 To answer your question regarding the identity of Deborah, no, DOM,
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335 but our entrance together is no coincidence--she is my guest.
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336 'Monster Comics', indeed, Aaron! Whatever your source is, it paints
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337 up a gaudy, glittery tramp of a dragon, complete with haughty demeanor
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338 and sinister coils--truly, I am injured that you would associate me with
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339 such an unfriendly and chintzy figure! Though my name was bestowed upon
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340 me, I refuse to accept a borrowed reputation, even if it has the flash of
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341 glamour attached to it, and I might even denounce it, if an image such as
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342 you depicted is conjured in most minds--! Pah!
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343 I yield the floor to Deborah, but only because time presses--please
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344 be patient; now it has been a stricken throat that has kept me from
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345 fulfilling my promise...patience, patience; I am not putting you off!
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346 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> d <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
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347 !?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
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348 In regard to airwave piracy, all radio and television frequency holders
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349 must support their broadcasting in some way or manner. Most choose
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350 commercial advertising, (much to our chagrin). But in the case of these
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351 specialty channels, they offer movies without the constant irritation
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352 and annoyance caused by most commercial interruptions. Therefore, some of
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353 their monies must come from other sources, like a user fee. They are
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354 providing a specific service, and we all are willing to pay for certain
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355 special services that we want, so........what's the problem. I do feel
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356 tho that if someone just happens to pick it up because of other equipment
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357 or location, not specifically directed at their frequency, that they
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358 should not be required to pay.
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359 Also, about the existance of a God. Consider: a businessman who was
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360 asked why he believed in God explained that in his factory it takes two
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361 days for a girl to learn how to put the 17 parts of a meat chopper together.
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362 "I am merely a plain manufacturer of cutlery," he said. "But this I do
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363 know, that you can shake the 17 parts of a meat chopper around in a wash-
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364 tub for the next 17 billion years and you'll never have a meat chopper."
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365 I realize this is an overly simplified illustration but it does touch on
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366 a very complicated science, that of probabilities which I will employ
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367 another time in reference to a creator. If someone approached a person
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368 and informed them that their house had evolved or come into being on its
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369 own, most would retaliate, PREPOSTEROUS! Here I go, quoting from my
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370 favorite source:
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371 "Of course, every house is constructed by someone, but he that
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372 constructed all things is God." (Hebrews 3:4)
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373 Most object to the idea of creation because they rightly say that six
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374 24-hour days is not enough time to accomplish the bringing about of a
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375 universe. But the Bible is a book about God, his dealings with men
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376 and his ideas; and most of it is on his timetable. In fact, the whole
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377 Genesis account is only about his work having to do with just the earth.
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378 Any-hey the days of creation amounted to 42,000 years not six 24-hour
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379 days. Plenty of time to develop a planet. Therefore, don't you think
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380 a belief in God is worth considering?
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381 !?!?!?!?!?!??!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!??!?! DEBORAH 8:55 pm
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382 ?
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383 /
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384
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385 ??????????????????????????????????????????????////////////////?????????????????
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386
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387 ANYONE EVER HEARD OF " ONTYME II "
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388 IT IS SOMETHING ON 226-0627
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389 WHEN ASKED FOR TERMINAL IDENT. TYPE "E"
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390
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391 THEN ENTER "0001;;"
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392 THE SECOND SEMI-COLON DOES NOT SHOW
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393
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394 ?????????????????????????THE ATTEMPTER?????????????????????????????????????
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395 <-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><->
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396 On the subject of Grenada:
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397 Even more interesting than the question of what we are doing there
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398 is the question of just what the Soviets were doing there....
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399
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400 We may have done what we did at exactly the best time, just befor that
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401 very long runway was made active. (by the way, why was the soviet embas-
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402 sador the equivelent of a four-star general?)
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403 I'm going to reserve judgement on this until I learn more
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404
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405 the Phantom Glitch
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406
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407 >-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<10/26>-<22:00>-<>-<>-<
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408 WELL NOW!
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409 REAGAN USED TO ONLY HAVE UNSUCESSFUL WARS TO TALK ABOUT. SINCE THE WEEKEND,
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410 HE'S JUST ABOUT A MILLION PERCENT MORE POPULAR WITH ALL THOSE CONSERVATIVES
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411 WHO WERE ON THE WAY TO BEING ALIENTED.
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412
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413 SOMEBODY TELL ME: IF WE'RE SO CONCERNED WITH SPREADING DEMOCRACY THROUGHOUT
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414 THE WORLD WHY DON'T WE INVADE EL SALVADOR, GUATEMALA, AND SO FORTH.
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415
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416 AT LEAST I CAN APPROVE OF THIS MORE THAN THE TROOPS IN LEBANON ON THE FOLLOW-
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417 ING BASIS:
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418 1. WE CAN BEAT A COUNTRY OF 100 THOUSAND PEOPLE
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419 2. WE KNEW WHAT WE WERE DOING THERE - TAKING OVER
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420
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421 WHAT BEATS ME IS THAT THE GOVERNMENT EXCUSES FOR THE INVASION ARE THE
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422 THINNEST YET. SEEMS LIKE RECENT GOVERNMENT PROPAGANDA IS ONLY AIMED AT
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423 IMPRESSING THE BELOW-80 IQ SET. IF I WAS TOLD WE INVADED IT TO SET UP
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424 OUR OWN MILITARY BASE INSTEAD OF THE RUSSIANS, I WOULD BELIEVE IT.
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425
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426 I FIGURE THE GRENADANS WILL BE BETTER OFF, AT LEAST. ASSUMING WE REALLY
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427 RE-INSTITUTE THE DEMOCRATIC CONSTITUTION. BUT I MAINTAIN THAT WE WOULD
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428 HAVE LIBERATED MORE PEOPLE FROM TERROR BY INVADING EL SALVADOR.
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429
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430 INCIDENTALLY, HAS IT EVER BEEN DISCUSSED HERE THAT **ALL** MILITARY
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431 DICTATORSHIPS ARE REALLY *SOCIALIST* TOTALITARIAN STATES! REALLY. TALK
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432 ABOUT TOTAL GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF THE ECONOMY. REMEMBER THAT THE
|
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433 NAZIS WERE THE NATIONAL *SOCIALISTS*. SO LETS JUST CALL THOSE RIGHT WING
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434 DEATH SQUADS IN CENTRAL AMERICA COMMIES AND GO GET 'EM. WE COULD TAKE OVER
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435 THE WHOLE AREA, JUST LIKE IN TEDDY R'S DAY. FUN FUN FUN.
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436
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437 AND THEN WE COULD GET ARGENTINA. TOO BAD BRITS DIDN'T HAVE THE GUTS TO BOMB
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438 THEIR WEAPONS-GRADE REACTOR & BOMB FACILITY WHILE THEY WERE AT IT. BUT THERE
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439 WERE TOO MANY GERMAN CITIZENS THERE, I GUESS. IT JUST MAKES ME NERVOUS
|
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440 KNOWING THAT THE PEOPLE WHO SHELTERED ALL THEIR NAZI BUDDIES AFTER WWII
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441 DOWN THERE ARE GONNA HAVE A NUCLEAR ARSENAL. LOOK OUT CHILE.
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442
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443 BY THE WAY, DID YOU ALL KNOW THAT THE GOVERNMENT LISTENS TO ALL OVERSEAS
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444 PHONE CALLS? AND MANY KINDS OF COMPUTER DATA TRANSMISSIONS? EVER WONDER
|
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445 IF THEY'RE LISTENING TO YOU? MAYBE THERE'S ANOTHER REASON THAT THE
|
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446 PHONE CO WANTS TO KNOW ABOUT YOUR MODEM. I'M AFRAID A LOT OF PEOPLE ON THIS
|
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447 BBS HAVE ILLUSIONS ABOUT WHAT'S LEGAL AND WHATS NOT, AS WELL AS WHO IN
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448 GOVERNMENT AND INDUSTRY CARES WHATS LEGAL. HINT - THEY WILL DO AS THEY
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449 PLEASE - AND YOU WON'T EVEN KNOW ABOUT IT, LET ALONE BE ABLE TO STOP THEM.
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450 SENATOR KENNEDY MAKES JOKES EVERY OTHER SPEACH ABOUT THE NSA,NSC, FBI
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451 ETC TAPPING HIS PHONE. IF HE CAN'T STOP IT, WHAT CHANCE DO YOU HAVE?
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452
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453 WELL, ENOUGH ALREADY
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454
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455 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!HROTHGAR, THE IMPERIALIST LACKEY!!!!!!!!!!!
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456
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457 re: Grenada
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458 Let me pose a question. If you were living in a country where a violent coup
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459 had taken place and a radical communist government took over, would you want
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460 to continue living like that or would you rather have the U.S. come in
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461 and have free elections, so you would
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462 at leastbe able to choose your own government. Nobody seems to care what the
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463 Granadians think.
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464
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465 DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~
|
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466
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467 Leonard: Are you deliberately twisting my argument or does your closed
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468 mind allow you to read only what it wants you to read rather than what
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469 I have written. Also it is rather difficult for someone trained in logic
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470 to respond to your messages which are largely if not totally devoid of
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471 logic. I will again attempt to do so, however.
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472 Firstly, if you don't remember having such a belief regarding the sky,
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473 I suspect that either you were an "unusual" child (which is not difficult
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474 to believe) or that your memory is defective (which also seems a definite
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475 possibility). In any case, whether or not you had such a belief is not im-
|
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476 portant. The point I was attempting to illustrate by the analogy is.
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477 Also the fact that my example involves a child is not important; I could
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|
478 have also cited an example regarding post graduate studies, but since
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479 the curriculum at this level is dependant on the major of the particular
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480 student it would be much more difficult to find an example that all could
|
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481 relate to. The point is that the object of any education is to change
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482 the students beliefs either by adding to them or by correcting misconcep-
|
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483 tions. You have stated that there is a conciderable difference between
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484 education and eliminating christianity. This is true. I have never stated
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485 otherwise. It sounds as though you are trying to compare causes with
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486 effects. In both the case of my example and the function of my pro-
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487 posed atheist organization, the cause is education and the effect is the
|
|
488 elimination of ignorance. You seem to think that though religions, since
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|
489 the beginning of history, have attempted to promote and teach others their
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490 beliefs (and thereby eliminate atheism) atheists have not the same right.
|
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491 Perhaps there is a need for an atheist rights movement after all,
|
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492 but I suspect that there are not too many who subscribe to your double
|
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493 standards.
|
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494 Your statement "The essential tenets of most religions are not sub-
|
|
495 ject to proof" is amusing. The only reason they have not been subject to
|
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496 proof is that they are unprovable. If they were provable, I assure you
|
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497 that such proof would be widely publicized by the proponents of that re-
|
|
498 ligion. Beyond this, I fail to see what this has to do with my analogy.
|
|
499 Allow me to answer your next questoion, "where are you going to stop?",
|
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500 with a question. If christians have their way, when will they stop trying
|
|
501 to "spread the word"? Answer: When everyone is a christian. If someone
|
|
502 believes he has information that could greatly enhance someone elses life,
|
|
503 or that of society in general, and he does not make that information avail-
|
|
504 able, and make it well known that it is available, this does not say much
|
|
505 for his attitude toward humanity.
|
|
506 In your next question it appears that you are attempting to infer that
|
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507 I am suggesting extermination of Christians. I made it very clear that
|
|
508 this was not the case. There is a big difference between eliminating
|
|
509 christians and eliminating Christianity. One refers to people while the
|
|
510 other refers to a set of archaic superstitions.
|
|
511 Your next statement I'm not quite sure how to interpret. Is this
|
|
512 supposed to be a prophecy of "the second coming"? According to Masters &
|
|
513 Johnson its not likely. Anyway, I predict that PEOPLE will show the
|
|
514 shortcomings of these beliefs, not the beliefs themselves. Unfortunately,
|
|
515 when the shortcoming of a belief is shown by its proponents it is result-
|
|
516 ant of some disaster (war or whatever) which has arisen from that belief.
|
|
517 So if an opponent can demonstrate these shortcomings before the occurance
|
|
518 of such a disaster, I find that preferable.
|
|
519 Your next paragraph I have already dealt with. The fact that my
|
|
520 example involved a child is irrelevant.
|
|
521
|
|
522 Deborah: Have you ever tried shaking 17 parts of a meat chopper in a wash
|
|
523 tub for 17 billion years? In that length of time, damn near anything
|
|
524 could happen, including the formation
|
|
525 of a complete meat chopper. At any rate, noone here has suggested that
|
|
526 evolution involves random chance. In fact, I have gone to great lengths
|
|
527 (before your arrival on BWMS) to indicate my disbelief in the existence
|
|
528 of such (random chance, that is). Also, I think you suffer another misconcep-
|
|
529 tion regarding evolution. It does not imply that anything has come into being
|
|
530 on its own. Additionally, can we say that because houses are created,
|
|
531 everything must be created. This is eqivalent to saying "since grass
|
|
532 is green, everything is green."
|
|
533 I think you are mistaking regarding the reason most people reject
|
|
534 the idea of creation. If we were to accept the existance of such a super-
|
|
535 being, I see no reason to believe that he/she/it would not be able to create
|
|
536 a universe in six days, six minutes or six blinks of an eye. I suspect that
|
|
537 some of your colleagues would lable you "heretic" for even suggesting that
|
|
538 he/she/it has such limitations.
|
|
539 My reason, and I believe the most common reason for discounting the
|
|
540 existence of a deity is that there is insurmountable evidence in sup-
|
|
541 port of the evolutionary theory and virutually none whatsoever (at least
|
|
542 that I am aware of) in support of creatonism. "d" has promised to pro-
|
|
543 vide me with such evidence, but as yet I have not seen it.
|
|
544 I also dispute your description of the bible. It is not a book about
|
|
545 god, it is a collection of books, written by a number of ancients barely
|
|
546 "evolved" from cave dwellers, who had
|
|
547 none of the advantages we have today, such as scientific methods or equip-
|
|
548 ment or millenia of study, for ascertaining the nature of the universe;
|
|
549 and it is about THEIR BELIEFS regarding god. No doubt you will claim
|
|
550 that they had the advantage of "divine enlightenment", but because this too
|
|
551 is self proclaimed by the writers, it is also an expression of their belief,
|
|
552 which is subject to the same disadvantages. Moreover, we have no way
|
|
553 of ascertaining which of those writers were even attempting to relate
|
|
554 factual material. As far as we know there have always been fictional
|
|
555 writers, as well as those who deliberately attempt to deceive the public.
|
|
556 As I mentioned before the time element does not really concern me,
|
|
557 but I think I should point out that what we are disputing is not the de-
|
|
558 velopment of a planet, but the creation of (as Carl would put it)
|
|
559 "billllllions and billllllions" of stars and planets and nebulae and
|
|
560 quasars, pulsars, black holes, etc. Or are you suggesting that these
|
|
561 were created by some other gods?
|
|
562 Yes, I think belief in god is worth considering, and as I have
|
|
563 mentioned previously (ask "d" for details) I have spent a rather signif-
|
|
564 icant portion of my life in such consideration. I feel I have given it
|
|
565 far more consideration than it is due.
|
|
566
|
|
567 Dirty Ol' Man
|
|
568
|
|
569 DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~
|
|
570
|
|
571 ########################################
|
|
572 DOM: I HATE TO TELL YOU, BUT IT SEEMS THAT GOD IS ALIVE AND WELL- HE'S LIVIN
|
|
573 IN THE WHITE HOUSE AND IS STILL IN THE PROCESS OF CREATING THE WORLD ACCORD
|
|
574 ING TO HIS PLAN.
|
|
575 I HAVE A QUESTION AS TO THE STUDENTS ON GRENADA: JUST WHY WERE THEY THERE?
|
|
576 COULD IT BE THAT THEY COULDN'T PASS THE ENTRANCE EXAMS HERE IN THE US? COULD
|
|
577 IT BE THAT THEIR PARENTS ARE BUYING THEM THE RIGHT TO PRACTICE MEDICINE?
|
|
578 FROM THE ONES THAT I HAVE SEEN EXPOUNDING THEIR FEAR OF THE SITUATION ON THE
|
|
579 ISLAND, I DON'T THINK I WOULD WANT TO TRUST MY HEALTH LET ALONE ANYTING ELSE
|
|
580 TO THOSE SPOILED PREPPY TYPES.
|
|
581 WELL, NOW, HAVE I OFFENDED ENOUGH PEOPLE? IF I KEEP THIS UP I WILL HAVE TO
|
|
582 BECOME A REPUBLICAN:
|
|
583
|
|
584 #################C.Y.M.##############################10/27 8:46AM###########
|
|
585
|
|
586 DOM: I *FINALLY* got you to clear up an ambiguity in YOUR statements.
|
|
587 Don't accuse me of reading things into statements that were not
|
|
588 what the sender intended. That is what your previous msg to me
|
|
589 was! I did NOT say you couldn't try to persuade someone to change
|
|
590 their beliefs. I said they had a right to differ with you (this
|
|
591 also implies the right to tell you to quit bugging them about it!)
|
|
592 As for my statement regarding unprovability, I meant EXACTLY that! In such
|
|
593 cases we are talking about SCIENTIFIC proof, *NOT* LOGICAL proof.
|
|
594 You are once again asserting that "since no one has proved it true,
|
|
595 it must be false"! And you accuse ME of being illogical? Also,
|
|
596 the bit about the kid has definite bearing. A "post-graduate student"
|
|
597 is an adult. In any case, I will concede the point. (by the way
|
|
598 it is getting VERY difficult to respond to you, you are raising
|
|
599 to many points at once)
|
|
600 I object to your establishing an organization for the avowed purpose
|
|
601 of getting rid of a religion. An "atheist rights" group, fine.
|
|
602
|
|
603 As for your latest comment about d, I don't seem to remember her
|
|
604 statement quite the same way you do. She said nothing about "creationism" &
|
|
605 I'm not certain that she was going to "prove the existence of God" either.
|
|
606 Perhaps you should consider the fact that many of us are writing
|
|
607 these msgs as we go & not working from a prepared, polished text.
|
|
608 Thus, if we seem to be saying something you find indefensible
|
|
609 please consider the fact that we may have been attempting to say
|
|
610 something a bit TOO simply and thereby distorted our original meaning.
|
|
611 My original comments on beliefs & people's rights to have them
|
|
612 weren't intend the way you seem to be taking them. I cannot at
|
|
613 this time think of a way to express the thought involved without
|
|
614 you getting us even FARTHER afield. Beliefs may not be the right
|
|
615 word but it is the only one I can think of that fits. Why do you
|
|
616 always seem to descend to attacking my "qualifications" & style
|
|
617 instead of trying to find out what I "really" meant. We would get
|
|
618 a lot farther if instead of attacking, you were to say "surely you
|
|
619 don't mean X, could you possibly have meant Y? I realize that for
|
|
620 some this would take all the "fun" out of it, but surely you are
|
|
621 above that?
|
|
622
|
|
623 C.Y.M: 6 months ago I and some friends were wondering what (if anything)
|
|
624 the US would do about the "Cuban base" being built on Grenada. I see that
|
|
625 Reagan waited for the LOCAL GOVERNMENTS to ask for US help. As for
|
|
626 Hey,Aaron! This is Larry! I finally got on this #$%& system... I read
|
|
627 your messages(dialogue?) earlier, and am very impressed with your colleagues
|
|
628 ideas. Please leave me a note...
|
|
629 thanx[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][[][][][][][][[][][]]LARRY[][][][][]][][][]
|
|
|