568 lines
39 KiB
Plaintext
568 lines
39 KiB
Plaintext
LIST
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FILE ON
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MARGIN IS 83
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STATUS: ALL ALLOWED
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NUMBER OF LINES: 563
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1 If you are in need of help, you need but ask....
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2 ********************** REMOVED: 23 SEP 83 **************************
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3 Welcome to BWMS (Backwater Message System) Mike Day System operator
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4 ************************************************************
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5 GENERAL DISCLAIMER: BWMS IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY INFORMATION PLACED ON
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6 THIS SYSTEM.
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7 BWMS was created as an electronic bill board. BWMS is a privatly owned
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8 and operated system which is currently open for use by the general public.
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9 No restrictions are placed on the use of the system.
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10 It is intended that the system be normally used for messages and
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11 advertisments by the users. As the system is privatly owned, I retain the
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12 right to remove any and all messages which I may find offensive
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13 to me. Additionally because of the limited size of the disk, it will be
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14 periodically purged of older messages. (only 629 lines of data can be saved)
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15 The saved information will be cycled to drive 'B' while the information on
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16 drive 'B' will be archived, and a fresh disk will be installed in drive 'A'.
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17 To leave a message, type 'ENTER' and use ctrl/C or break to get out
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18 of the enter mode. The message is automaticly stored.
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19 If after entering the message you find you made a mistake,
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20 use the replace command to replace the line.
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21 To exit from the system, type 'OFF' then hang up.
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22 Type 'HELP' to see other commands that are available on the system.
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23 ========================================
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24
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25 TO CONTINUE, AS FOR LIGHT ON DARK/DARK ON LIGHT, IT REALLY DEPENDS ON AN
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26 ENORMOUS NUMBER OF FACTORS. MANY OF THEM RELATED TO THE HARDWARE. ONE
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27 ASPECT THAT MOST FORGET IS THAT FOR THE DARK ON LIGHT TO BE ACCEPTABLE
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28 YOU MUST USE A VERY HIGH QUALITY CRT OF WHICH MOST ARE NOT. THIS IS BECAUSE
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29 IN THE LOWER QUALITY CRTS THE LETTERS TEND TO BLURE TOGETHER. IN THE LOWER
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30 QUALITY CRTS THIS RESULTS IN LETTERS THAT HAVE DIFFERENT LINE WIDTHS DEPENDING
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31 ON THE SPECIFIC COMPOSITION OF THE LETTER. IT IS FAR EASIER AND CHEAPER TO
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32 JUST PROVIDE THE LIGHT ON DARK FORMAT. THE PROBLEM WITH MOST CRTS THAT
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33 PROVIDE THE OPTION TO GO THE OTHER WAY IS THAT THEY ARE NOT OF SUFFICIENT
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34 QUALITY TO DO IT PROPERLY. BUT EVEN HERE THERE ARE ASPECTS TO CONSIDER.
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35 IF THE CRT IS USING GRAY SCALE DISPLAY, THEN THE WHOLE CONCEPT HAS TO BE
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36 RECONSIDERED. HOW DO YOU DISPLAY THE GRAY? THE TERMINAL I AM USING IS
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37 CAPABLE OF WHITE BACKGROUND WITH DARK CHARACTERS, BUT I DON'T USE IT
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38 BECAUSE ALTHOUGH THE CHARACTERS ARE READABLE, THEY ARE STILL NOT PERFECT
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39 AND IT MAKES IT DIFFICULT TO READ. WHILE THE WHITE ON DARK IS NOT AS MUCH
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40 A PROBLEM. AS FAR AS USING THE DARK ON WHITE, I HAVE USED IT ON A GOOD CRT
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41 AND I HAVE FOUND IT TO BE FAR BETTER WHERE THE APPLICATION FITS (TYPING
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42 FROM A WHITE PAPER COPY) IN THIS ASPECT THE WHITE BACKGROUND WITH DARK
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43 LETTERS MORE CLOSLY MATCHS THE PAPER FROM WHICH I WAS COPYING WHICH
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44 REDUCED THE CONFUSION TIME OF ADAPTING BETWEEN LOOKING AT THE SCREEN AND
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45 LOOKING AT THE PAPER. HOWEVER IF I AM NOT COPYING FROM A PEICE OF PAPER,
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46 THEN IT REALLY DOESN'T MATTER AS LONG AS THE QUALITY OF THE CRT IS HIGH
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47 ENOUGH TO DO THE JOB PROPERLY. (WHICH GIVEN THE QUALITY OF MY CRTS MEANS
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48 WHITE CHARS ON BLACK BACKGROUND.. SIGH...)
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49 WHILE I AM HERE, I'LL ADD THIS LITTLE ADDITION TO THE PREVIOUS EXCERPT;
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50 The geometric design of characters and symbols which is also within the
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51 discipline of ergonomics and industrial design, must be clear and unambiguous.
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52 The legibility of the characters should not be impaired by geometric
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53 distortions. All characters must be completely formed and the descenders of
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54 lower case letters must extend below the writing line. The character width
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55 of capital letters should amount to about between 50%-70% of the character
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56 height. Also, it's important to note that the exclusive use of capital letters
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57 is only suitable for brief information and for highlighting. Conversely,
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58 heavier eye strain results in the exclusive use of small letters. It is
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59 important that the displayed characters must not touch each other.
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60
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61 In closing, one of the comments I often get when complaining to keyboard
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62 manufactures about their poor designs is that a good typist doesn't mind
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63 the poor layout... hmmm. I have several comments on that. First, a rather
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64 large number of the users are NOT good typists and they need all the help
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65 they can get. Second, while a good typists may not complain loudly over
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66 every rotten keyboard they come across, I have seen poor designs which
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67 very significantly impacted performance. Most noticably the placement
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68 of the return key as noted earlier. When you have to break home row
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69 position to hit the return key, the keyboard is not properly designed
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70 and no amount of excuses or finger pointing can change that.
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71 ***** VERBOSLY YOURS CISTOP MIKEY ******* 11:30 AM **** 18 SEPT 83 ********
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72 HI! MY NAME IS CKARLIE AND IM NEW ON THES THING
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73 PLEASE DROP ME A LINE ON HOW TO USE BWS
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74 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
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75 MIKEY, YOU'RE SO RIGHT!! A GOOD TYPIST WILL ADAPT TO A LOUSY KEYBOARD, BUT
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76 THAT DOESN'T MAKE THE KEYBOARD BETTER. SMALL RETURN KEYS, ODD PLACEMENT,
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77 PUTTING CONTROL, INVERSE, BREAK, ESCAPE, AND OTHER SUCH KEYS NEXT TO THE
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78 SHIFT, ETC., CAN BE A REAL PROBLEM, AND CAN CAUSE A LOT OF HAIR BEING PULLED
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79 OUT OF HEADS. I LOVE THE IBM PC (SO ALL YOU IBMers, PLEASE DON'T TAKE
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80 OFFENSE), BUT THE KEYBOARD ON IT IS VERY POORLY DESIGNED, ESPECIALLY FROM A
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81 COMPANY THAT BROUGHT US THE SELECTRIC. BUT INDEPENDANT COMPANIES HAVE
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82 BROUGHT OUT KEYBOARDS FOR THE IBM THAT ARE SUPERIOR, SO IF IT IS A REAL
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83 PROBLEM, A BETTER ONE IS AVAILABLE.
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84 AARON..... ARE YOU JUST A TEASE, OR HAVE YOU DISSAPEARED?
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85 YOU SAID "CAN WE TALK?", I RESPONDED IN THE AFFIRMATIVE, YOU ASKED FOR A
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86 SUBJECT, I GAVE US ONE, AND YOU THEN PROCEEDED TO DISSAPEAR INTO THE
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87 TWILIGHT ZONE. HAVE YOU GIVEN UP ON THE INN? CQ, AARON, CQ........
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88
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89 [][][][][][][][][][][][]PAM.[][][][][][]
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90 MIKEY - THAT WAS ME ON THE OTHER DISK BEING TOO POLITE - I FORGOT TO PUT IN
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91 MY NAME OR ELSE CONTROL-C'd WHILE STILL AT THE END OF THE LINE - I HAVE NOW
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92 ADDED THE NAME. I'M SURE GLAD I WAS BEING TEMPORARILY POLITE (BACK A WHILE
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93 WHEN I WAS MUCH LESS POLITE I WAS ALMOST THE ONLY ONE SIGNING ON AFTER A
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94 WHILE...) BECAUSE... SEE NEXT MESSAGE.
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95 BAD - YOU HAVE GOT ME NAILED SECURELY TO THE WALL. I CHECKED MY PREVIOUS
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96 ASSERTION WITH MY WEBSTERS COLLEGIATE DICTIONARY WHICH ASSURED ME THAT
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97 GUANO WAS ONLY FROM BIRDS. I HAVE NOW CHECKED AN ENCYCLOPEDIA AND FOUND
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98 OUT ABOUT THE GRAND CANYON BAT CAVE, THE MOST SIGNIFICANT DEPOSIT OF GUANO
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99 INSIDE THE U.S. ETC ETC. I WOULD LIKE HOWEVER TO POINT OUT THAT THIS ONLY
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100 RE-AFFIRMS MY CHOICE OF THE NAME. HAVING BEEN INTIMATELY INVOLVED
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101 IN FARMING AND HORTICULTURE AT ONE TIME, I HAVE WORKED QUITE CLOSELY WITH
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102 VARIOUS KINDS OF CRAPOLA. I WANTED A PSEUDONYM THAT QUALIFIED AS THE
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103 ABSOLUTE NADIR OF THE VARIOUS MANURES, AND AM GLAD TO HAVE YOUR ASSURANCE
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104 THAT I HAVE JUST SUCH A ONE.
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105 BAD - I SEE YOU WANT TO SET THE LEGAL SYSTEM BACK A FEW THOUSAND YEARS. I
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106 WOULD LIKE TO KNOW JUST WHAT THE RATIO OF BLACKS TO WHITES IN PRISON
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107 YOU REFERRED TO MEANS TO YOU. I AM SOMEWHAT STUNNED TO HERE OF THIS IN
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108 THE SAME BREATH AS AN ARGUMENT FOR PREVENTIVE DETENTION. COULD YOU
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109 ELUCIDATE? DO YOU DARE? I ALSO WANT TO KNOW WHAT YOU WANT TO DO ABOUT
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110 THE GUY WITH THE WEAPON ON THE STREET - TAKE THE GUN AWAY OR PUT HIM
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111 IN JAIL BEFORE HE BUYS A GUN, OR WHAT? YOU'RE BEING QUITE VAGUE - OUT
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112 OF NECESSITY, I SUSPECT. I ALSO TAKE ISSUE WITH THE STATEMENT THAT
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113 MOST PEOPLE ARE HONEST, IN THE SENSE THAT YOU SEEM TO MEAN IT, WHICH IS
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114 THE IMPLICATION THAT MOST PEOPLE DON'T BREAK THE LAW. THAT'S BULLSHIT,
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115 AS OUR BELOVED PRESIDENTE HAS POINTED OUT. IN HIS CAMPAIGN REAGAN NOTED
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116 THAT WITH 30,000,000 LAWS ON THE BOOKS ALL OF US HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO
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117 BREAK DOZENS OF LAWS EACH AND EVERY DAY. HOW ABOUT PUTTING ALL OF US IN
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118 PREVENTATIVE DETENTION? AND IF YOU SAY NONE OF THOSE RULES THAT ARE
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119 BEING BROKEN ARE SERIOUS, WELL, DO YOU EVER SPEED ON THE FREEWAY. EVER?
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120 AND HAVE SPEEDERS EVER KILLED ANYONE? SERIOUS ENOUGH. THERE IS IN
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121 FACT A CRISIS IN THE LAW IN THIS COUNTRY. HOWEVER, THE BUNGLING EFFORTS
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122 OF JINGOISTS WILL NOT PREVENT INJUSTICE, IT WILL ADD TO IT.
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123
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124 I NOTICE YOU DIDN'T DENY THAT THESE ARE FAVORITE TACTICS OF TOTALITARIANS
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125 SO I GUESS YOU ADMIT THAT. MAYBE YOU DON'T THINK RUSSIA WOULD BE THAT
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126 BAD A PLACE TO LIVE? BREATHLESSLY AWAITING YOUR NEXT BRAINLESS
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127 CONTRIBUTION.
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128
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129 TO ALL: HOW COME NOBODY IN A GROUP LIKE THIS IS INTERESTED IN THE SUBJECT
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130 OF BETTER COMPUTER INFORMATION UTILITIES, SINCE YOU USE THIS ONE ALL THE TIME
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131 I DIDN'T GET ANY RESPONSES AT ALL TO MY LAST QUERY ABOUT A FREE
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132 DATABASE AND NO-ONE IS MAD ABOUT THE GOVERNMENT STEALING YOUR TAX
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133 DOLLARS TO CREATE DATA BASES THAT THEY TURN OVER TO BIG COMPANIES
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134 TO PROFIT FROM WITH NO INVESTMENT OF THEIR OWN. I SPEAK HERE OF
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135 LOCKHEED IN PARTICULAR. PERHAPS IT GOT THIS PLUM FOR BEING SUCH A
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136 NICE TAME MILITARY CONTRACTOR THAT ALL THE OLD GENERALS RETIRE TO AFTER
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137 A LIFETIME OF MISAPPROPRIATING PUBLIC FUNDS. THIS IS A MULTI-BILLION
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138 DOLLAR RIPOFF LIABLE TO CONTRIBUTE TO THE DOWNFALL OF OUR ECONOMY IN
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139 A SIGNIFICANT WAY AND NOBODY ANSWERS ME ABOUT IT!!!!! SOMEBODY JUST
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140 TELL ME IT'S OF NO INTEREST AND I'LL QUIT BRINGING IT UP
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141 MIKEY - WANT ME TO GET RUDER OR IS THIS BAD ENOUGH? DON'T KNOW ABOUT THIS -
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142 MOST OF THE EASY TARGETS HAVE BEEN PRETTY QUIET LATELY AND I'M
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143 KINDA RELUCTANT TO BE TOO RUDE TO ANYONE I'VE HEARD FROM THE LAST FEW
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144 DAYS - UNSIGNED,COME BACK!!! WE NEED YOU.
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145 ))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))BATPOOP, THE MAGNIFICENT+++++++++++++++++
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146 }{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{
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147 Kaypro may fall because the machine costs too much to build, and there are
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148 far, far, far too many dealers who should not be dealers (lots of inventory
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149 sitting in guys garages.) I'm told the stock offering fizzled out. Kaypro
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150 is NLS, a 30 year old test equipment company. The explosive growth caused
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151 by the Kaypro line may be just that, explosive. Nuff said.
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152
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153 Dearest Batpoop: Just what was it we gave Lockheed? (besides an awful lot
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154 of money for equipment, some of which works pretty good.)
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155
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156 the Phantom Glitch
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157 $S$S$S$S$S$S$S$S$S$S$S$S$S$S$S$S$S$S$S$S$S$S$S$S$S$S$S$S$S$S$S$S$S$S$S$S$S$S$S
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158 As for the screen issue, I use white-on-black, and am satisfied with it. Having used green on black before, it is equally
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159 good. I don't like orange-on-black. As for the inverses, I think they are acceptable, but I'd rather not use them.
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160 I believe white-on-black tolerates unfocussedness (is that really a word, or am I just making it up?) better than the
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161 reverse.
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162 Keyboards: I can get used to anything, but I can't stand going from one keyboard to another daily. Especially when the
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163 positions of the commonly-used symbols changes. Keyboard manufacturers must think theirs is the only layout that has,
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164 is, or will ever be used, and test accordingly.
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165 Movie trivia question: What was the name of the soldier in Dr. Strangelove that was played by actor Keenan Wynn? Some of
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166 the recent comments reminded me of this.
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167 Is this system getting busier recently; Getting on is a PAIN!
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168 Ah yes, Kaypro: The Kaypro has an acceptable-sized screen and nice-sized floppy drives. It may succeed where Osborne has
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169 failed. As for Osborne, regardless of what we think of the computer, we owe a lot to it, making the price of computers
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170 lower than it used to be.
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171
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172 What percentage of the users on this system CANNOT read >80 columns?
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173 ============**********::::::::::==========::::::::::Anon.==========*********
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174 PAM: You might be interested in knowing that I talked to the manufacturer of
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175 the IBM keyboard (Keytronics) about a year and a half ago. The result was
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176 interesting. First, the key placment was specified by IBM. As was the noisy
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177 key clicking. The keycap sizing (all 3/4 inch square) was defined by
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178 Keytronics. The reason was the hardware. The low profile switching used
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179 does not allow for proper keytravel arangement. As such the keystrike area
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180 had to be limited to single wide keys. Thus the reason for all keys the same
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181 size. The skerts were provided on certain keys to allow for shifting key
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182 positions to be in the desired places. So there you have it, the single
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183 wide keys were the result of an engineering fudge, not design.
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184 ******* CISTOPP MIKEY ****** 8:26 PM ******* 18 SEPT 83 *****************
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185
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186 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
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187 VERY INTERESTING, MIKEY. I HAVE OFTEN WONDERED HOW A COMPANY THAT COULD
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188 MAKE THE SELECTRIC KEYBOARD COULD COME UP WITH THE ONE ON THE PC, WHICH IS
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189 ONE OF THE WORST AROUND THAT I HAVE SEEN TO DATE. I ACTUALLY PREFER THE
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190 ATARI 800, WHICH IS ALMOST A SELECTRIC CLONE AS FAR AS KEY PLACEMENT AND
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191 SIZE. I'M NOT SAYING I PREFER THE ATARI COMPUTER TO THE IBM, JUST THE
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192 GENERAL ARRANGEMENT ( THEY COULD HAVE INCLUDED A TEN-KEY PAD THOUGH ).
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193 YES, THE CHARACTER IN THAT CLASSIC MOVIE "DR. STRANGELOVE" PLAYED BY
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194 KEENAN WYNN WAS COL. BATGUANO. WAS HE THE ORIGIN OF YOUR NAME, BATPOOP?
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195
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196 [][][][][][][][][][][][]PAM![][][][][][]
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197 ALAS, I DIDN'T THINK OF IT FIRST. I DIDN'T KNOW THAT TILL NOW, HOWEVER. I
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198 COULD EASILY BE GUITY OF UNCONCIOUS PLAGIARISM, THOUGH, IF THERE IS SUCH A
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199 THING. I'VE SEEN THE MOVIE AT LEAST 4 TIMES, MAYBE MORE. MAYBE I SHOULD
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200 CHANGE THE NAME NOW THAT IT TURNS OUT NOT TO BE AN ORIGINAL. SUGGESTIONS?
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201
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202 ONE THING WE GAVE LOCKHEED WAS NATIONAL BUREAU OF STANDARDS DATA BASES.
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203 THE NATIONAL B OF S IS AN OLD DEPARTMENT GOVERNMENT RESPONSIBLE FOR A
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204 SURPRISING AMOUNT OF BASIC RESEARCH. THEY DO MANY THINGS LIKE FINDING
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205 MELTING POINTS OF SUBSTANCES, HEATS OF SOLUTION FOR SALTS, ATOMIC CLOCKS,
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206 AND ALSO A GOOD DEAL OF RESEARCH THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH STANDARDS
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207 AND TABLES OF DATA. THEY HAVE DATA BASES IN SEVERAL HUNDRED FIELDS. NOW
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208 HAVING PAID FOR THIS ALREADY IT WOULD BE NICE IF I COULD DIAL IT UP ON
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209 MY COMPUTER FOR A REASONABLE FEE. THERE ARE MILLIONS OF STUDENTS,
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210 PRIVATE RESEARCHERS, SMALL BUSINESSES, FARMERS, ETC WHO COULD REALLY USE
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211 THIS STUFF. WE COULD REALLY USE SOME COMPETITION IN MORE FIELDS THAN
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212 JUST COMPUTERS (AMONG THE HIGH TECH FIELDS). I KNOW THERE ARE SOME OTHERS,
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213 BUT YOU KNOW THEY ARE FAR BETWEEN. BUT ASIDE FROM HAVING 'GOOD' REASONS TO
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214 WANT THE DATA, WE ALREADY PAID FOR IT !!!!
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215
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216 A LOT OF OTHER GOVERNMENT DEPARTMENTS ARE PARTICIPATING IN THIS SCAM. I SAY
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217 THAT HAVING THE BASIC RESEARCH DATA THAT IS AT THE HEART OF OUR PROSPECTS
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218 FOR THE FUTURE RIPPED OFF IN THIS MANNER IS BOUND TO SERIOUSLY AFFECT
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219 OUR ECONOMY. SONY, SIEMANS A.G. OR THE SOVIET EMBASSY CAN GET THIS INFO
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220 EASIER THAN A SMALL BUSINESSMAN (THAT IS, THEY CAN AFFORD IT). AND THE
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221 SMALL BUSINESS PERSON IS THE ONE WHO CREATES ALL THE GROWTH AND NEW JOBS,
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222 NOT THE LARGE CORPORATIONS, WHO ACTUALLY ELIMINATE JOBS ( ALONG WITH
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223 CREATIVITY AND SOME OTHER THINGS WE CAN GO INTO LATER ). AND THE WORST
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224 THING ABOUT IT IS THAT THESE DEALS ARE PUBLISHED OPENLY, LIKE IN
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225 COMPUTERWORLD, AND NO-ONE SEES ANYTHING WRONG WITH IT AT ALL EXCEPT
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226 MAYBE A FEW HUNDRED THOUSAND PEOPLE WHO ARE TRYING TO DO INDEPENDENT WORK
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227 IN HIGH TECH OUTSIDE THE BIG CORPORATIONS AND GOVERNMENT. THIS IS AN
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228 EXTENSION OF A BIGGER IS BETTER PHILOSOPHY IN R&D THAT HAS SEEN THE
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229 DROP IN PATENT ISSUANCE IN RECENT YEARS TO HALF OF FORMER LEVELS. AND
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230 MANY OF THE PATENTS GRANTED NOW IN THE U.S. ARE JUST PATENTS BEING
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231 GRANTED FOR FOREIGN COMPANIES FOR WORK DONE ELSEWHERE.
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232 ))))))))))))))))))))BATPOOP, OF THE UNCERTAIN DERIVATION+++++++++++++++++++++
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233 Again, the idea of prior restraint in our penal institutions is not new,
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234 in fact the most common reason given for punishment is deterrence. We have
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235 many laws whose only purpose is to prevent crimes, but we have no coherent
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236 crime prevention system. In fact, since our prisons have not proven to have
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237 much if any rehabilitation value, their only use is deterence. Some crimes
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238 are effectively planning another crime (conspiracy, for example, or what is
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239 called assault, since that is not battery but threat) it is legally correct
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240 to nab someone for planning certain crimes. like overthrowing the government
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241 Admittedly we can't read minds, so we can't get at much planned crime, but
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242 by removing repeaters from circulation we can reduce crime. Much research
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243 has been done on the psychology of crime, so using this we can get some
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244 indication if a suspect is likely to commit crimes; the use of so-called
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245 experts is meaningless, since their record has been much worse than the
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246 estimates of the police. simple statistics on crimes should be sufficient.
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247 Most of us do admittedly commit crimes, but inadvertenly (who can know all
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248 the laws?), and intentionally (if you obeyed the speed limit on the freeway
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249 you would be risking more than a ticket) but laws are a part of social
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250 behavior so inappropriate laws are ignored. Simply making the laws
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251 enforceable would help, such as the European method of making the owner of a
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252 car responsible for it's use. (They put automatic speed detectors with
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253 cameras where they can spot speeders, and you are held responsible for s
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254 your car's driver speeding) In order to get a license to drive we take a
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255 test of our basic knowlege of some traffic laws and our ability to operate
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256 a car. As it is well known that most "accidents" are caused by the same few
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257 drivers, and that these few show distinct psychological aberrations, and
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258 also kill people, I think it quite correct to require some sort of
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259 standardized test for this also (it could be part of the driving test, as
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260 one of the traits is tailgating). The idea that premeditated murder is worse
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261 than a crime of passion is totally wacko; it means don't think about the
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262 effects of your actions, that could get you in jail.
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263 On free databases: who will pay for it? The cost of the data is one thing,
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264 but the cost of accessing it is another. Compuserve is cheap in the evenings
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265 because it is paid for during the day, by business users. If we could get
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266 dialog to do the same, then we must pay for the phone lines (or eqivalent)
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267 to access it, still expensive but more practical. The almost total lack
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268 of competit1on in this field may say something about how easy it is to get
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269 into. One databas1 I would like to see, though, is our laws. Lawyers have
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270 access to several databases on this, as well as the court's interpretations,
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271 and since we must abide by laws as the courts read them, we should be able
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272 to know what this is. I don't think a lawyer should be needed to tell us
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273 what is legal. Of course the lawyers won't like us poking around in their
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274 private preserve, especially when we could see how badly they handle it.
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275 Enough///////////////////////////BAD\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
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276 As to keyboards, how about one quick wish? Make them easily redefinable by
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277 he user. Put LCD displays on the keys so you could see what you did to them,
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278 and when you log on the computer would set up the keyboard to match your
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279 logon file. If you like dvor-what's-his-name you got it; it would even allow
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280 QWERTY.
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281 /////////////////////////////\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
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282 DOM: I don't mean some my comments regarding 0/0 to be SERIOUS.
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283 However your slope example is what first made me realize that n/0
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284 & 0/0 could have meanings other than "undefined". Note: I didn't
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285 say they were PRACTICAL meanings, just meanings. Obviously, the
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286 vertical line has infinite slope - thus n/0 = "infinity". Now
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287 consider the set of real numbers n as being the set of solutions
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288 of equations of the form n=y/x. ALL of the lines pass thru (0,0).
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289 This lack of a single (or even of any FINITE number of) answer is
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290 why 0/0 is undefined. n/0 is undefined because of all the fun
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291 things that occur in the mathematics of transfinites. Aleph null
|
||
292 (sorry my terminal only supports greek & kata kana, NOT hebrew!)
|
||
293 +n = aleph null. Replace the "+" with any other operation and you
|
||
294 won't have to change the answer! This could get VERY inconvenient
|
||
295 in a bookkeeping program.
|
||
296 I think that most floating point representations have
|
||
297 a few "illegal" or ignored bit patterns that could be used to code
|
||
298 for some of these strange answers (as an example, I believe that
|
||
299 in most Microsoft BASICs a zero exponent means the number is 0!
|
||
300 Since the mantissa isn't being checked, what if we did & if it
|
||
301 was 0 then ok then answer is 0, otherwise it is .....)
|
||
302 Most of my examples (of /0 & 0/0) are things where I
|
||
303 was kind of suprised to find out that the "real world" & the
|
||
304 formulas would still give answers under the "undefined" conditions.
|
||
305 I admit that the answers aren't very USEFUL, but my "interpretation"
|
||
306 of the undefined conditions, sometimes will tell you what to expect.
|
||
307 I think this is "better" than "you can't DO that", if only
|
||
308 because it lets you understand why "you SHOULDN'T do that".
|
||
309 Since you appear to have a fair knowledge of math, maybe
|
||
310 you can answer a couple of questions for me? My math (College
|
||
311 Algebra ie Math 101, Logic, & a little Boolean Algebra, pre-Calc
|
||
312 etc) isn't quite up to these.
|
||
313 1. What is the square root of "i" (ie SQR(SQR(-1)) )?
|
||
314 2. How did they determine that i^i=e^(-.5*pi)
|
||
315 (the above values both work out to a small real number that
|
||
316 I'm too lazy to look up in the CRC tables)
|
||
317 For #1 my main question is: is the result a member of the set of
|
||
318 complex numbers, or do we need "hyper-complex" numbers? On #2
|
||
319 I suspect that the answer is VERY involved, so I would understand
|
||
320 if you referred me to a book (hopefully, something I can understand
|
||
321 if not, I may ask for an explanation of the explanation!)
|
||
322
|
||
323 To: ANYBODY
|
||
324 Is it possible to take math classes (& maybe a few physics
|
||
325 & chem classes) at any of the universities or colleges around
|
||
326 Portland, WITHOUT working toward a degree or having to take
|
||
327 "irrelevant" classes as prerequisites at some point? I would
|
||
328 be taking only 1 or 2 classes a term, & only to LEARN. Thus, I
|
||
329 don't want to be told: I'm sorry, you can't take CS 207 unless
|
||
330 you have taken Eng 105 and ..... I can see why they do this
|
||
331 if you are going for a degree, but..
|
||
332
|
||
333 To:BATPOOP
|
||
334 "if the Foo shits, wear it"
|
||
335 _____________________________Leonard__________________________
|
||
336 ****************
|
||
337 In regards to the issue of putting criminals in jail before they commit crimes;
|
||
338 there are a couple of criminal offenses that apply: Attempt and Conspiracy.
|
||
339 Both require that a substancial step be taken towards the commission of the
|
||
340 crime. Conspiracy also requires that more than one person be involved. The
|
||
341 attempt charge is usually used as a plea bargining tool as the penalty is less
|
||
342 than the actual crime itself. Conspiracy is rarely used as it is extremely
|
||
343 difficult to prove, people don't plan criminal acts in public. If you want to
|
||
344 go further than that, then you'll have to overcome one obstacle--the US Comstitution.
|
||
345 It may be outdated and vague in places, but it's all we've got at the moment.
|
||
346 I'd be loathe to give it up unless I see something better.
|
||
347 As for testing driver's to see whether they have the right attitude before they
|
||
348 are given a license...FAT CHANCE! How many driver's are on the road with their
|
||
349 licenses suspended for bad driving records, drunk driving, manslaughter, etc.?
|
||
350 Just because the state has told someone that they can't drive because they aren't
|
||
351 a good driver, doesn't mean they won't drive...They could care less. The penalties
|
||
352 are very stiff in this state for Driving While Suspended: A Misdemeanor in some
|
||
353 cases and a C Felony if your license is suspended for drunk driving or some other
|
||
354 major traffic crime...The real problem as I see it is that many judges refuse
|
||
355 to lock up offenders so they won't hurt someone else; and the judges that would
|
||
356 like to can't because the jails are too full. Another solution is needed, I
|
||
357 just haven't figured out what it is...
|
||
358 Michael
|
||
359 *******************
|
||
360
|
||
361 NO, THE ABOVE IS NOT ME. PLEASE REMEMBER THAT I SIGN AS SHOWN HERE:
|
||
362 ******** CISTOP MIKEY ****** 19 SEPT 83 ****** 2:30PM ******************
|
||
363 |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
||
364 TO LEONARD...
|
||
365 As per your question about taking classes at local schools without going towards a degree...
|
||
366 I have taken classes at PSU and at Mt. Hood CC. Both schools, especially PSU, require,
|
||
367 for some classes, prerequisites to get it. They have to do this because of the limited number
|
||
368 of sections of a given class. Students in a certain degree program must be giuven the priority
|
||
369 to get into classes that they need to satisfy their degree requirements. In most of the cases
|
||
370 I have seen, if there is room left in a class, they will let you in. They don't keep people out because they are mean, its
|
||
371 just the fact that they don't have the money to staff more teachers and have more sections.
|
||
372 I won't start that debate up again, but I know where you are coming from. It is fun, or would be fun, to take
|
||
373 classes just to learn, instead of always having to worry about the fact that this class isn't in the program, or
|
||
374 I have to have taken basket weaving 102 before I can get into basket weaving 200. There are alot of neat classes you can take
|
||
375 just for 'fun' at both schools. Check out MHCC night classes and PSU's Departmment of continuing Education, or DCE for short.
|
||
376 They both offer the type of things you are looking for. I have not mentioned PCC, but
|
||
377 I imagine they have some sort of extension classes or similar offerings. I wish you
|
||
378 luck in your endevors! I have learned a lot in school, and I have been very happy with
|
||
379 my professors at both PSU and MHCC. Have fun...and remember, school starts up at both PSU and MHCC September 26th. In case
|
||
380 you don't know who this is, I'll just sign my name as the 'Null' man...
|
||
381
|
||
382 //////////////////////
|
||
383 Someone above wanted to know what sqrt (i) is. Dredging up some answers
|
||
384 from the depths of my brain, I get: (1+i)/(sqrt 2). I think. It has been a long
|
||
385 time since calculus, etc. As for the second question, I GIVE UP! Imaginary
|
||
386 exponents give me the willies.
|
||
387 ------------------------------------------------P. V. Jeltz--------------------
|
||
388
|
||
389 10 i am trying to figure this out
|
||
390 501 you should be more explicite on how to write a message on this system scott huotari
|
||
391 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 19 Sep 83 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
|
||
392 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 21:21 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
|
||
393 When a voice calls and is not heard, it is as if a cold fog blows
|
||
394 into the Inn and transforms it...the roar of voices tangled in conversation
|
||
395 changes to a tinnily-distant sound, a sound as inviting as a the din of
|
||
396 televisions on display in a department store...and to the eyes of the
|
||
397 girl in the corner, the Inn becomes a grey and empty room, and only the
|
||
398 dust shimmers from the exhalation of the one thus abandoned.
|
||
399 Broken Heart, ever you read me wrong! Tell me your true name, and
|
||
400 let us speak of more than mournful dirges over what is lost.
|
||
401 A humble thanks to those who defended my offerings to the Backwater
|
||
402 Inn, many days ago: I wish that I had been able to convey the delight
|
||
403 that I felt when I briefly glimpsed the rallying of my friends against
|
||
404 the stranger who took an unfriendly swing at me...and these words seem
|
||
405 quite inadequate to express the smile that danced on my face that day--!
|
||
406 I, as a would-be artist, can find some fulfillment in just expressing
|
||
407 myself succintly, but the *joy* of writing comes from the inadvertantly-
|
||
408 earned appreciation and respect that is expressed by others.
|
||
409 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> d <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
|
||
410 DEAR BAD - WHAT ABOUT THE RATIOS OF BLACKS - DO YOU GIVE UP - GUESS YOU
|
||
411 DON'T HAVE THE GUTS TO CONFRONT US WITH WHAT YOU REALLY MEAN - OR TO
|
||
412 SAY YOU WERE WRONG ABOUT SOMETHING - AND HOW ABOUT THE ISSUE OF TOTALITA-
|
||
413 RIANISM - CAN'T GET A PEEP OUT OF YOU ON THESE CAN I. I SEE YOU STILL
|
||
414 WANT TO CLAIM SOME SHRED OF RESPECTABILITY FOR YOUR IMPOVERISHED ANTI-
|
||
415 SOCIAL ATTITUDES, THOUGH. THIS IS AN ANONYMOUS FORUM, THOUGH. WHY DON'T
|
||
416 YOU GO AHEAD AND SAY WHATEVERS ON YOUR MIND. THIS LAST MISSIVE OF YOURS
|
||
417 IS HELD TOGETHER WITH HOG GREASE. ALMOST EVERY SENTENCE CONTAINS SOME
|
||
418 FLAW OF THOUGHT, SO IT'S IMPOSSIBLE TO NOTE THEM ALL WITHOUT TAKING UP
|
||
419 THE REST OF THIS DISK, BUT HOW ABOUT THIS:
|
||
420
|
||
421 IN SENTENCE ONE YOU CONFUSE THE IDEAS OF PRIOR RESTRAINT AND DETERRENCE THROUGH
|
||
422 PUNISHMENT. THESE ARE NOT THE SAME.
|
||
423 IN SENTENCE TWO, YOU NOTE THAT WE HAVE MANY LAWS WHOSE ONLY PURPOSE IS TO
|
||
424 PREVENT CRIMES.... ETC. WELL, ALL LAWS ARE DESIGNED TO PREVENT UNDESIRABLE
|
||
425 ACTS, NOTE *ACTS*. THE FACT THAT THERE IS A LAW IS WHAT DEFINES WHAT IS A
|
||
426 CRIME. WHAT YOU ARE GETTING AT IS THAT THERE IS A MUCH DISPUTED AREA OF
|
||
427 LAW INVOLVING CONSPIRACY. THIS AREA IS CONTROVERSIAL ENOUGH AS FAR AS IT
|
||
428 HAS GONE - IT MAKES A BAD FOUNDATION FOR THE IDEA THAT PEOPLE SHOULD BE
|
||
429 LOCKED UP FOR THEIR BAD INTENTIONS, PREDELICTIONS, OR FANTASIES.
|
||
430
|
||
431 THE MAIN SUBSTANCE OF YOUR ARGUMENT SEEMS TO REST ON TWO IDEAS:
|
||
432 A: THAT WE CURRENTLY ARE ABLE TO PREDICT IMMINANT CRIMINAL BEHAVIOUR, AND
|
||
433 THAT THERE ARE CRIMINAL EXPERTS THAT CAN DO THIS WITH RELIABILITY -
|
||
434 THIS IS JUST NOT SO FOR MOST CRIMES. RECENTLY A MAN IN A PSYCHIATRIC
|
||
435 HOSPITAL WITH A CRIMINAL RECORD WAS SENT HOME BY HIS DOCTOR, A
|
||
436 PROFESSIONAL EXPERIENCED WITH CRIMINAL PSYCHOTICS. HE KILLED HIS
|
||
437 WIFE AND CHILDREN BEFORE KILLING HIMSELF. ANY PERSON IN THIS FIELD
|
||
438 WILL TELL YOU THAT MURDER CAN NOT BE PREDICTED ON A PSYCHOLOGICAL
|
||
439 BASIS.
|
||
440 B: THAT WHOEVER IS RUNNING THE GOVERNMENT WILL BE IN PERFECT AGREEMENT
|
||
441 WITH YOU ABOUT WHAT INFRACTIONS ARE SERIOUS AND WHICH ARE NOT. HOW
|
||
442 PERFECTLY GOOFY AN IDEA! IF SOMEBODY DIDN'T WANT TO PUNISH YOU FOR
|
||
443 THE CRIMINAL ACTIVITY OF YOURS THAT YOU CONSIDER NOT SERIOUS, PUNISHING
|
||
444 ONLY OTHER PEOPLE FOR THEIR 'REAL' CRIMES, THOSE LAWS WOULDN'T BE ON
|
||
445 THE BOOKS. THE FACILE WAY YOU HAVE OF EXCUSING LIFE ENDANGERING
|
||
446 SPEEDING ON THE FREEWAY IS QUITE LIKE THE SORT OF EXCUSES OTHER
|
||
447 CRIMINALS PRESENT FOR THEIR CRIMES. THEY SIMPLY SAY THAT IT DOESN'T
|
||
448 REALLY MATTER, FOR ONE REASON OR ANOTHER. THE FACT IS YOU NEVER KNOW
|
||
449 WHAT THE BALLOON HEADS WHO RUN MOST GOVERNMENTS ARE GOING TO COME UP
|
||
450 WITH IF YOU DISMISS THE BILL OF RIGHTS - WHICH IS WHAT YOU ARE TRYING
|
||
451 TO DO, THOUGH I SUSPECT YOU HAVEN'T READ IT LATELY.
|
||
452
|
||
453 MOST OF YOUR METHODOLOGY FOR CATCHING THESE OFFENDERS-TO-BE BEFORE THE ACT
|
||
454 HAS TO DO WITH ASSUMPTIONS ABOUT CLASSES OF PEOPLE - BUT WE WILL, IN YOUR
|
||
455 SCENARIO, BE LOCKING UP INDIVIDUALS. FURTHER, YOU STATE THAT PRISONS DO
|
||
456 NOT WORK FOR ACTUAL OFFENDERS. HOW THEN CAN THEY DO SOME GOOD FOR POTENTIAL
|
||
457 OFFENDERS. WHAT WOULD BE THE OUTCOME IF I LOCKED YOU UP NOW FOR INTENDING
|
||
458 TO SPEED? HOW LONG SHOULD I KEEP YOU? OR SHOULD I SHOOT YOU, OR PERHAPS
|
||
459 LOBOTOMISE YOU? SPEEDERS AND DRUNK DRIVERS KILL ABOUT AS MANY PEOPLE A
|
||
460 YEAR IN THIS COUNTRY AS MURDERERS DO. SO IT'S JUST AS SERIOUS. HAVING
|
||
461 WORKED IN HOSPITAL E.R.'S A BIT, I CAN TELL YOU THAT THE OUTCOMES ARE
|
||
462 QUITE SIMILAR. MAYBE YOU SHOULD THINK BEFORE YOU LET US DO WHATEVER WE
|
||
463 WANT TO YOU.
|
||
464
|
||
465 I THINK THAT BEFORE YOU WRITE OFF THE PRISON SYSTEM, YOU OUGHT TO MEDITATE
|
||
466 ON THE FACT THAT WHEN A JUDGE HERE RECENTLY FORCED THE STATE TO RELEASE
|
||
467 A LARGE PERCENT OF STATE INMATES, THE CRIME RATE JUMPED 75% THE NEXT MONTH.
|
||
468 IT IS NOT THAT PUNISHMENT AS WE CURRENTLY PRACTICE IT DOESN'T WORK - IT
|
||
469 IS THAT WE DON'T PRACTICE IT ENOUGH. WE LET PEOPLE OFF WITH LIGHT SENTENCES
|
||
470 WHO ARE MULTIPLE OFFENDERS BECAUSE OF LACK OF PRISON SPACE. MOST OF OUR PRISONS
|
||
471 WERE BUILT WHEN THE POPULATION WAS A FRACTION OF WHAT IT IS TODAY. AND
|
||
472 DETERRENCE HAS TWO ASPECTS - CONVINCING PEOPLE TO STAY HONEST IS ONE, BUT
|
||
473 THE OTHER IS PUTTING CRIMINALS WHERE THEY CAN'T GET TO THE REST OF US. IT
|
||
474 IS POSSIBLE TO HAVE MOST REPEAT CRIMINALS UNDER LOCK AND KEY, BUT WE DON'T
|
||
475 DO IT.
|
||
476
|
||
477 SO: LETS LOCK CRIMINALS UP, FOR SURE. AFTER THEY ARE CONVICTED. AND LETS
|
||
478 BE WILLING TO PAY THE TAXES THAT THIS ENTAILS. WHILE THIS IS GOING ON,
|
||
479 LETS NOT GIVE THE GOVERNMENT ANY EXCUSES TO LOCK US UP ON SUSPICION,
|
||
480 OR ANYBODY WHO SAYS 'THE KING IS A FINK' WILL BE IN THE HOOSEGOW FOR
|
||
481 GOOD, OR WORSE. UNLESS, OF COURSE, YOU TRUST ALL POLITICIANS AND
|
||
482 COPS AND LAWYERS TO BE BETTER THAN OTHER HUMAN BEINGS, ALL THE TIME.
|
||
483 ))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))COLONEL BATGUANO++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
|
||
486
|
||
487 ****************
|
||
488 Mikey: Sorry, I didn't mean to give the impression the above message about
|
||
489 criminals was yours, that just happens to be my name.
|
||
490 As for the crime/criminals issue; criminologists have come up with four basic
|
||
491 reasons for locking people up:
|
||
492 1. Punishment - All this does is make the victims feel a little better and
|
||
493 satisfy our sense of morality.
|
||
494 2. Deterrance - The threat of prison rarely deters the hardcore crook. He knows
|
||
495 that he's not going to spend the full time in the joint anyway with early release
|
||
496 probation and parole. Also many repeat offenders become institutionalized to the
|
||
497 point that they want to get back into prison as soon as possible.
|
||
498 3. Rehabilitation - studies have shown that rehabilitation has little if any
|
||
499 effect on whether or not an individual will become a repeat offender. In fact,
|
||
500 the only thing that seems to have a bearing is the age of the individual. The
|
||
501 older one becomes, the less likely he is to become a repeat offender.
|
||
502 4. Locking up the crook to keep him of the streets - As Bat pointed out this is
|
||
503 the only real effect on the crime rate. If the crook isn't out on the street
|
||
504 he won't be victimizing someone. And as he gets older his chances of repeated
|
||
505 offenses decreases.
|
||
506 So, I guess the only way to really reduce the crime rate is to make sure crooks
|
||
507 spend their full time in jail. Halfway houses, probation, parole, job training, etc.,
|
||
508 really don't help that much. That sounds hard-nosed, but short of lobotomies
|
||
509 or a return to capital punishment for stealing a loaf of bread, it's the only
|
||
510 viable alternative that I can see.
|
||
511 Michael
|
||
512 *****************
|
||
513
|
||
514 Michael, no problem, it is only that your name being the same as mine and
|
||
515 the boarder you use gave rise to a few users thinking that you were me. Which
|
||
516 is natural enough considering all the simularities. Ah well...
|
||
517 ****** CISTOP MIKEY ****** 20 SEPT 83 ******* 8:27 AM *********************
|
||
518 **********************************************************************
|
||
519 As the Innkeeper returns from a long nights outing he finds a whisper
|
||
520 still echoing thru the Inn. Come do not leave without speaking with
|
||
521 the other patrons, for many have asked of you. Most notibly PAM and
|
||
522 Aaron. Your voice is always most welcome here for it brings happiness
|
||
523 and joy to the patrons of this fair Inn. Come and sit with these fair
|
||
524 people and chat for a while most gracious Lady of Dragons.
|
||
525 ******** CISTOP MIKEY ******* 8:38AM ******* 20 SEPT 83 **************
|
||
526
|
||
527 TO: BATDODO
|
||
528 WELL, I WOULD SAY IF THAT DOESN'T GET SOMEONE MAD AT YOU, I DON'T KNOW
|
||
529 WHAT WILL!
|
||
530 BY THE WAY, IF ANYONE IS INTERESTED, EVEN THE SCIENTIST HAVE THEIR OWN
|
||
531 IDEAS ABOUT CRIMINALS AND HOW TO DETECT AND STOP THEM. IT HAS TO DO WITH
|
||
532 LOOKING FOR TRACE METALS IN THE HAIR. IT SEEMS THAT THOSE WHO COMMIT
|
||
533 ACTS OF AGRESSION EITHER HAVE AN EXCESS OR LACK OF CERTAIN METALS IN
|
||
534 THEIR BODIES AS DETERMINED BY LOOKING AT HAIR SAMPLES. WHILE THOSE THAT
|
||
535 DON'T COMMIT ACTS OF AGRESSION HAVE A NORMAL AMOUNT OF THESE METALS.
|
||
536 SCIENCE NEWS 8/20/83 PG 122 AND 9/10/83 PG 173. NOW THERE IS A INTERESTING
|
||
537 AND SICKENING THOUGHT. YOU GOT TO MUCH COBALT IN YOU, SO WE ARE LOCKING
|
||
538 YOU UP AND THROWING AWAY THE KEY. WORSE YET, THERE IS TALK OF TESTING
|
||
539 CHILDREN TO SEE IF THEY QUALIFY. WONDERFUL, JUST THE SORT OF THING TO
|
||
540 TELL THEM, "YOUR GOING TO LEAD A LIFE OF CRIME". OF COURSE ALL THIS IS
|
||
541 GREAT FOR THE PEOPLE COMMITING THE ACTS OF VIOLENCE, "SEE, IT'S NOT MY
|
||
542 FAULT, THE METAL MADE ME DO IT!" YEAH, RIGHT... FLIP WILSON YOU AIN'T.
|
||
543 ******* CISTOP MIKEY VERY SCEPTICAL ******* 20 SEPT 83 *******************
|
||
544 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 21 Sep 83 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
|
||
545 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 21:19 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
|
||
546 Of what would you have me speak, dear Innkeeper? I hesitate to leap
|
||
547 into the conversations flying past, for many that start in a bantering
|
||
548 tone seem to run amok, and become 'slash ego' contests.
|
||
549 My visits have been infrequent because of the long path of darkness
|
||
550 that awaits me once I leave these lands, and thus I may have missed some
|
||
551 responses--? Tell me, please, O Innkeeper, of these voices that called
|
||
552 my name, for I did not hear; and I am eager to reply!
|
||
553 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> d <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
|
||
554 ******************************************************
|
||
555 Ah dear lady, the ones of note are the faithfull Aaron who has called
|
||
556 your name serveral times and found no answer. PAM as well a most
|
||
557 sesioned traveler has expressed loss at no longer hearing the words
|
||
558 that pass thru your fingers.
|
||
559 And, sigh.. Even I do miss your thoughts and words as they flow thru
|
||
560 this Inn crowded though it is at times like these.
|
||
561 But hark! Do you not see that it changes yet again? For the night of
|
||
562 the egos is closing fast. Perhaps a new decore can be added to the Inn.
|
||
563 ****** CISTOP MIKEY ****** 22 SEPT 83 ******** 9:34PM ***************
|
||
|