635 lines
40 KiB
Plaintext
635 lines
40 KiB
Plaintext
FILE ON
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MARGIN IS 126
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STATUS: ALL ALLOWED
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NUMBER OF LINES: 629
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1 If you are in need of help, you need but ask......
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2 *********************** REMOVED: 20 SEP 83 *************************
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3 Welcome to BWMS (BackWater Message System) Mike Day System operator
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4 ************************************************************
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5 GENERAL DISCLAIMER: BWMS IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY INFORMATION PLACED ON
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6 THIS SYSTEM.
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7 BWMS was created as an electronic bill board. BWMS is a privatly owned
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8 and operated system which is currently open for use by the general public.
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9 No restrictions are placed on the use of the system.
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10 It is intended that the system be normally used for messages and
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11 advertisments by the users. As the system is privatly owned, I retain the
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12 right to remove any and all messages which I may find offensive
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13 to me. Additionally because of the limited size of the system, it will be
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14 periodically purged of older messages. (only 629 lines of data can be saved)
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15 The saved information will be cycled to drive 'B' while the information on
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16 drive 'B' will be archived, and a fresh disk will be installed in drive 'A'.
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17 To leave a message, type 'ENTER' and use ctrl/C or break to get out
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18 of the enter mode. The message is automaticly stored.
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19 If after entering the message you find you made a mistake,
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20 use the replace command to replace the line.
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21 To exit from the system, type 'OFF' then hang up.
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22 Type 'HELP' to see other commands that are available on the system.
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23 ========================================
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24
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25 Mikey: your tax example didn't include a /0, just a 0/ which
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26 WILL return 0 on ant system that I ever heard of.
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27
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28 Now as for the old 0/0 argument: The mass of a particle at a given
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29 velocity is given by Mv = M/tau, where tau = SQR(1-((v^2)/(c^2))).
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30 At c tau=0. Now all photons have a REST mass of 0, thus the mass
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31 of a photon is 0/0! Note that photons can have ANY mass.
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32 ____________________________Leonard________________________
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33 DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~
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34
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35 Leonard: I do not dispute your mathematical formulation in the above
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36 problem, but I do question your interpretation of an undefined value.
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37 An undefined value such as 0/0 does not imply ANY value, only that an
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38 exact value cannot be ascertained using that formulation. Consider
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39 the slope of a line in the xy coordinate plane, which may be repre-
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40 sented as the difference in y-coordinates divided by the difference in
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41 x-coordinates of two distinct points on the lines. So for a vertical
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42 line, of the form x=constant, the difference in x-coordinates is zero
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43 resulting in a slope of m=something/0, which is undefined. Does this
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44 mean that m can assume ANY value? NO, clearly, m<>1,m<>-1,m<>.5,....etc.
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45 Given an infinite amount of time, and an infinite amount of patience,
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46 we could find an infinite number of values which m does not equal. Thus,
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47 there are limits to the range of values m can assume but those limits
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48 are mathematically undefined.
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49
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50 Dirty Ol' Man
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51
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52 DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~
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53 ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
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54 TO DOM:
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55 YOU THINK THAT YOU HAVE TROUBLE GETTING A LINE HERE?? I'VE BEEN TRYING FOR
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56 THREE DAYS AND FINALLY GOT THROUGH.
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57 MISSED A WHOLE DISC, AS FAR AS I CAN TELL.
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58 WISH THERE WERE SOME WAY WE COULD ACCESS MORE THAN ONE BACK DISK-SIDE:
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59 C.Y.M
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60
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61 ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
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62 MIKEY: Cheap shot number two comin' at ya'--- Yes, taxes can be complex;
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63 but they get a whole lot tougher when one attempts to divide instead of
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64 multiply when applying rates to bases! You youngsters...don't ever, ever
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65 try this without adult supervision! That's incredible......
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66 {{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
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67 OPPS! YOUR RIGHT OF COURSE.. MY APPOLIGIES. I SHOULD CHECK MY WORK A LITTLE MORE
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68 BEFORE ENTERING IT. (SO HOWCOME NO ONE ELSE CAUGHT IT?)
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69 OF COURSE THE POINT I WAS TRYING TO MAKE WAS THAT WHEN DEALING WITH NUMBERS
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70 IN REGARD TO COUNTING OF OBJECTS. WHEN YOU HAVE NOTHING TO COUNT,
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71 THEN THE RESULT IS ZERO NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO TO MANIPULATE THE COUNT
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72 OF ZERO. IT IS ONLY WHEN YOU DEAL WITH THE DESCRIPTIVE FORM OF THIS
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73 THAT IT TAKES ON OTHER MEANINGS. I EXPECT I'LL GET JUST AS MANY
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74 ARGUMENTS FROM THAT STATEMENT AS WELL. SO LET ER ROLL....
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75 ******* CISTOP MIKEY ******* 5:18PM ******** 15 SEPT 83 **************
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76 THIS IS A TEST OF THE AMERICAN BROADCAST SYSTEM.
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77
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78 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
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79 IF THERE ARE TIMES WHEN A VALUE ENTERED IS ZERO AND THAT VALUE WILL LATER BE USED AS A DIVISOR, WOULDN'T IT BE
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80 EASIER TO HAVE YOUR PROGRAM CHECK ALL VALUES TO BE USED FOR A ZERO VALUE, THEN ASSIGN THAT ZERO VARIABLE A NEW
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81 VALUE THAT WON'T BE USED FOR THAT AREA (PERHAPS A -1), THEN CHECK AFTER THE DIVISION FOR NEGATIVE NUMBERS? OR
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82 MERELY CHECK ALL DIVISORS FOR A ZERO VALUE BEFORE DIVISION TAKES PLACE, AND BRANCH TO A SUBROUTINE THAT WOULD
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83 THEN SUBSTITUTE THE DESIRED VALUE FOR THAT ITEM (IN THIS CASE, 0). IS THIS A WORKABLE ARRANGEMENT?
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84
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85 [][][][][][][][][][][][]PAM.[][][][][][]
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86 P.S. HELLO AARON..... COME IN AARON....... ARE YOU THERE AARON.....
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87
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88 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
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89 TO PAM: THAT KIND OF THING WORKS, BUT IT'S THE SORT OF THING YOU DON'T
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90 TO DO ALL THE TIME - WE WANT TO GET OUT OF THAT - THATS WHAT HIGH LEVEL
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91 LANGUAGES ARE ABOUT - SAVING EFFORT.
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92 TO MIKEY: I THINK IT'S INTERESTING THAT THE EXAMPLES WHERE 0=N/0
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93 THAT WORK BEST SO FAR ARE INVENTORY AND RELATED CONCRETE EXAMPLES THAT
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94 ARE VERY PHYSICAL AND REAL WORLD. ANYWAY, EINSTEIN DIVIDED BY ZERO A
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95 NUMBER OF TIMES, ONLY TO BE 'CORRECTED' OUT OF BUSINESS BY MATHEMATICIANS
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96 THAT HE DEFERRED TO ON THE BASIS OF THEIR EXPERTISE - MAYBE HE INTUITED
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97 SOMETHING VALUABLE THERE.
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98 TO DOM: WHAT ACUMEN. THAT BATS SEEM TO HAVE A NIGHT TIME QUANDRY VIS-A-VIS
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99 THEIR CA-CA IS IN FACT ONE OF THE REASONS I CHOSE THE NAME. IT SEEMED
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100 SO MUCH MORE TOO-TOO THAN SAY 'DONKEYDUNG' OR 'PASTUREPATTIE'. AS FOR
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101 YOUR QUESTION I FEEL THAT AFTER A SHORT WHILE HANGING UPSIDE DOWN THE
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102 POOR LITTLE TYKES MUST BE COMPLETELY CONSTIPATED. AND IMAGINE THE
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103 PANIC WHEN THE FELLAS ON HIGHER PERCHES WAKE UP AND ASSUME THE VERTICAL
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104 POSITION - THAT IS, UPRIGHT. REMEMBER THE OLD FIFTIES THING OF
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105 TEACHING STUDENTS TO AVOID NUCLEAR BLASTS BY CROUCHING UNDER THEIR
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106 DESKS AT SCHOOL? THIS ENLIGHTED GOVERNMENT PROGRAM WAS CALLED
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107 "DUCK AND COVER". THEY SHOULD HAVE TRAINED US IN A BAT CAVE. YOU GET
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108 IT???? HAR HAR HAR HAR.
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109 TO DOM: QUITE A SCENTS OF HUMOR US BATS HAVE HUH, DOM? ABSOLUTELY TASTELESS!
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110 TO PAM: THATS WHAT THEY MEAN WHEN THEY CALL US MEN UNREASONING BRUTES!
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111 AND BY THE WAY, I'D LIKE TO TRY TO TALK YOU INTO 80 COLUMN LINE ENTRY.
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112 I HAVE A HARD TIME READING LONGER LINES THE WAY MY TERMINAL WRAPS THEM.
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113 SOME PEOPLE CAN'T READ THE LONGER LINES AT ALL. TELLING THEM TO BUY
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114 BETTER GEAR IS NOT CONSTRUCTIVE. (I KNOW YOU DIDN'T DO THAT, BUT
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115 SOMEONE SUGGESTED IT WAY BACK TWO OR THREE DISKS). HAVE MERCY ON THE
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116 NEARSIGHTED - USE 80 COLUMNS - AND I'LL BEG MIKEY FOR A PROGRAM THAT
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117 STORES 80 COLUMN RECORDS IN THE FILE TO GIVE MORE LINES PER DISK.
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118 TO MIKEY: PLEASE NOTE ABOVE BEGGING
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119 LONGWINDEDLY YOURS,
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120 )))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))BATPOOP, the MAGNIFICENT++++++++++++++
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121 TO: BATPOOP
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122 I TOO AGREE ABOUT THE INTERESTING ASPECT OF THE ZERO THING. AS FOR THE ALTERNATE
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123 SIDE, THE PROBLEM THAT I SEE IS THAT THE ENGINEERING TYPES RUN INTO A PROBLEM
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124 FROM THEIR STANDPOINT SUCH THAT IF THE RESULT DOES COMEOUT ZERO THEN THEIR
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125 ANSWERS WILL BE INCORRECT. IT WOULD SEEM TO ME THAT THIS WHOLE PROBLEM COULD
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126 BE SOLVED BY EITHER 1.) FORGET THE WHOLE BLOODY MESS AND LET THE MATHMATICIANS
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127 HAVE IT THEIR WAY. 2.) WRITE OUR OWN HIGH LEVEL LANGUAGE THAT OPERATES THE WAY
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128 WE WOULD LIKE IT TO. 3.) SHOOT THE MATHMATICIANS. 4.) SHOOT THE BUSINESSMEN.
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129 5.) SHOOT THE PROGRAMERS. OR 6.)CONTINUE TO SHOOT THE BULL....
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130 AS FOR 80 COL.. SIGH.. I CAN'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT, I DON'T HAVE ACCESS TO
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131 THE SOURCE CODE FOR THE SOFTWARE THAT ALLOWED THAT (NOT THAT I WOULD PATCH
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132 IN THE 3K OF CODE AGAIN THAT MAKES BWMS DIFFERENT FROM THE ORIGINAL. I
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133 CREATED BWMS BY REFERING TO A SIMILAR SOURCE AND DISASSEMBLING WHAT I HAD
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134 AND THEN PATCHING WHAT I WANTED. I AM NOT EVEN SURE THE 78 COL SOURCE WOULD
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135 RUN ON THIS PARTICULAR MACHINE. ANYWAY, EVEN GIVEN THAT, THE SOURCE IS BURNED
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136 INTO 2708 EPROMS, AND I HVE NO WAY TO BURN THEM ANYMORE. AS FOR THE WAY DATA
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137 IS STORED, IT IS STORED AS ONE LINE PER SECTOR ON THE DISK. WHICH IS A HARDWARE
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138 LIMITATION. THERE IS NO OPERATING SYSTEM. WHAT YOU SEE 'IS' THE OPERATING
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139 SYSTEM! RAM SIZE IS 1K EPROM SIZE IS 8K DISK SIZE IS 18 SECTORS PER TRACK BY
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140 35 TRACKS WITH THE FIRST SECTOR RESERVED FOR THE SYSTEM (MARGIN INFO, LAST LINE,
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141 ECT.) I DID NOT WRITE THE MAIN LINE CODE AND I TAKE NO CREDIT (OR DISCREDIT)
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142 FOR IT. I AGREE THAT IT WOULD BE NICE TO CHANGE THINGS, BUT I AM LOATH TO
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143 FOR BOTH THE ABOVE STATED REASONS, AND THE FACT THAT BWMS IS ONE OF THE MOST
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144 RELIABLE COMPUTERS I HAVE EVER SEEN AND I REALLY DON'T WANT TO MUCK WITH THAT.
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145 IF EVERYONE USES 80 COL MESSAGES, THE ONLY DISADVANTAGE IS THAT THE DISKS
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146 WILL BE CHANGED FASTER. AS FOR ME, I ARCHIVE THEM IN CPM FORMAT SO IT
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147 DOESN'T MATTER SINCE THE DISKS ARE RECYCLED AFTER BEING ARCHIVED.
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148 ******* CISTOP MIKEY ******* 10:00PM ******** 15 SEPT 80 ***************
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149 If I try to insult you, it's a sure sign that I like you.
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150 If I can't insult you, it's a sure sign that you like me.
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151 If I haven't insulted you yet, BE PATIENT!
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152
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153 ================================================
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154 Besides the well-known /0, there are plenty of other mathematical functions
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155 that can have illegal input. Trying to take the log of 0 or a negative number,
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156 the arcsin or arccos of a number greater than 1, and some others. Most of us
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157 don't deal in these things, so they aren't mentioned. But I think that we have
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158 to provide for illegal operations.
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159 For simple programs that input data, do only a little manipulation, and
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160 then output the result, a no-error return of /0 might be visible and correctible.
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161 But many programs take data from files, do extensive modifications, then output
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162 the data to other files. Maybe never even seen by human eyes. In that case,
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163 allowing an illegal operation could result in the contamination of large amounts
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164 of data, possibly quite important. And even if you suspected an error, you
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165 would have no clue where it happened.
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166 A program is called 'robust' if it can be fed all sorts of nonsense
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167 data, and operate properly on it. The consists of error checking and traps
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168 to make sure that if Garbage gets in, much less Garbage gets out. Programs
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169 needn't be robust if they are written by an individual for himself, since
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170 he can control the data they are run on.
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171 ==============================================P. V. Jeltz================
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172 ^^-^^^-^^^^^-^^^^^^^-^^^^^^^^^^^-^^^^^^^^^^^^^-^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^-^^-^^^-^^^^^
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173 D.O.M: Reguarding your example of the slope of a vertical segment,
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174 That is not an example of 0,0 because slope is defined as dy/dx.
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175
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176 While there is a zero in the denominator, the value for dy is non-
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177 zero for a segment or a line. So, you end up with a situation like:
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178 5/0, 11/0, inf/0 (in the case of a vertical line), etc. These all
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179 fall under the set of UNREAL numbers. The only example of 0/0 is
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180 when dy=0 and dx=0 (ergo, a point) and a point can have any slope
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181 you want to assign to it.
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182
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183 Alas, the time has come to leave your fair Inn. I must now venture forth into
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184 the world of acadamia. To all of you, my thanks. To Aaron, Tron, Pam,
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185 Charlotte, Batpoop, Master, Leonard, and even to (un)signed, and any one else,
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186 I will miss your discussions. But my special thanks goes to Mikey and his
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187 GREAT!!! system. To all, farewell.
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188
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189 P.S. I'll be around until Sunday, so if you want to make any final comments
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190 about 0/0=R and the UNREAL numbers, hurry.
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191
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192 FAREWELL THE DOCTOR
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193 ^^-^^^-^^^^^-^^^^^^^-^^^^^^^^^^^-^^^^^^^^^^^^^-^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^-^^-^^^-^^^^^
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194 DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~
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195
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196 Doctor: I was speaking, of course, in terms of conventional mathematics
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197 (which everyone with the exception of yourself uses) by which any REAL num-
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198 ber (zero or otherwise) divided by zero is undefined. Had I any desire
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199 to take into consideration your "UNREALs", I would have no basis for doing
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200 so, as you have made no attempt to define the operations which are legal
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201 and closed in this group, nor the properties which govern them. By
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202 "academia" I presume you are speaking of your first year of college. Per-
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203 haps there you will have the opportunity to learn the basics of math-
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204 ematics, if you concentrate your efforts on doing so, rathar than cor-
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205 recting your instructors. I sincerely hope, Doctor, that you never get
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206 your hands on a scalpel, but if you do, please employ it practicing surgery
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207 on yourself, beginning preferably with fingerectomies (I suspect your ins-
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208 structors will also recommend a toungue-ectomy). Perhaps I speak
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209 to harshly, but I suspect that if your patience will endure a year at
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210 Miscellaneous U, you will then begin to recognize your limitations, and
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211 only then will you begin to learn.
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212 GOOD LUCK!
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213
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214 Dirty Ol' Man
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215
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216 DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~
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217
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218 Addendum: I just had to add this little semi-quotation of Anonymous
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219 [formerly Signed (formerly Unsigned)] which more than adequately expresses
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220 my point (although the exact wording escapes me):
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221 "The more one learns, the more one realizes what remains to be learned."
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222
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223 Dirty
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224
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225 DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~
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226 As to checking for illegal entries & correcting or rejecting them, even this
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227 is not always enough: no entry at all may cause trouble. A good example of
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228 this failed one of our Venus rockets. Seems that the FORTRAN compiler the
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229 program was tested on set variables to zero until used, but the compiler
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230 used on the real thing didn't, leaving garblagage. The rocket crashed.
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231 Nothing in, garbage out.
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232
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233 If the subject of ethics were to be brought up again, would everybody just
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234 guano, or?? In particular, in the last 2 issues of Scientific American is
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235 an article on cooperation vs defection (no, not defecation) If we all work
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236 together we gain, but sometimes it benefits the individual who cheats more
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237 than the cooperaters, and indeed a few defectors can destroy the whole thing
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238 There are things that can be enjoyed by a few, but if all tried, itcould
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239 not be enjoyed. A pie can only be sliced so thin. If the choice is logical,
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240 all who choose logically will get the same answer, and so your own choice
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241 is a valid example of everyones; this leads to being able to predict the
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242 "best choice for all", it's the same as your own.
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243 We will give one million dollars divided (not by zero, i hope) by the total
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244 of all numbers entered, to the person who enters the highest number.
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245 Unfortunately the numbers entered included things like 10^100, called
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246 a googol, and 10^googol, called googolplex, and several like sums: the
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247 winner would receive something so near zero the number can't even be written
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248 what woulLd you try??
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249 /////////////////////////////////BAD\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\<
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250 DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~
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251
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252 PAM: I have always assumed that you were (or should I say "are") of the
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253 feminine gender. It has just occurred to me, however, that "PAM" could be
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254 initials for a name, such as "Phillip
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255 A. Morris". So for the record, could
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256 you please fill out the following questionaire.
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257
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258 "PAM" is my:
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259 name initials other NYDB
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260 [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ]
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261
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262 I am:
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263 Male Female Both Neither NYDB
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264 [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ]
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265 other
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266 [ ] explain_______________________
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267
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268 I own a tobacco company.
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269 True False NYDB
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270 [ ] [ ] [ ]
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271
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272 (NYDB="None of Your Damn Business")
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273
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274 Thank you for your cooperation.
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275
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276 Dirty Ol' Man
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277
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278 DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~
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279
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280 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
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281 WELL, I SUPPOSE I SHOULD DEAL WITH THE COMMENTS IN THE ORDER THEY WERE
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282 MADE. I ORIGINALLY USED 126 MARGINS FOR THE SIMPLE REASON THAT THEY WILL
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283 SAVE DISK SPACE. I CAN UNDERSTAND THAT NOT BEING ABLE TO SEE THE ENTIRE
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284 MESSAGE WOULD BE FRUSTRATING, BUT I MADE THE UNWARRENTED ASSUMPTION THAT,
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285 SINCE THE MACHINE I AM WORKING ON IS AN INEXPENSIVE ONE, AND THE TERMINAL
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286 PROGRAM PUBLIC DOMAIN AND VERY SIMPLE, EVERYONE ELSE WOULD HAVE SUPERIOR
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287 MACHINES AND/OR TERM PROGRAMS. THIS LITTLE BEAST ONLY DISPLAYS 40
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288 COLUMN, AND WRAPS AROUND THE REST TO THE NEXT LINE. SINCE IT CAUSES
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289 PROBLEMS FOR SOME, I WILL USE 80 COLUMN FROM NOW ON (MUST KEEP THE
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290 PEACE!!).
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291 ON THE /0 DISCUSSION, SINCE YOU DO NOT WANT TO HAVE THE PROGRAM DO
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292 THE WORK, WHAT ABOUT CHANGING THE SET OF CHARACTERS THE COMPUTER DISPLAYS
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293 AND ASSIGNING NEW CHARACTERS TO THE OUT-PUT THAT GIVES YOU PROBLEMS? AN
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294 INFINITY SIGN (OR SOMETHING ELSE) FOR /0, AN ITALIC i FOR SQUARE ROOTS
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295 OF NEGATIVE NUMBERS, ETC. THE OS COULD THEN BE PROGRAMMED TO IGNORE
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296 THESE VALUES ON OUTPUT, AND ASSIGNED TO THEM THE VALUES YOU WISHED, WITH
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297 A FOOTNOTE MARKING SHOWING THAT THEY WERE SPECIALLY ASSIGNED VALUES.
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298 1) MY 1st NAME IS PAM.
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299 2) YES, I AM FEMALE.
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300 3) NO, I DON'T OWN A TOBACCO CO., NOR DO I SMOKE.
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301
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302 HELPFUL? I'M NOT A COMPUTER PRO, AS I'M SURE IS OBVIOUS, THOUGH I
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303 DO HAVE SOME MINOR EXPERIENCE. AND I'M OLD ENOUGH TO REMEMBER WHEN ONE
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304 LEARNED TO PROGRAM A COMPUTER BY USING CARDS AND A CARDPUNCH, WITH
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305 TURNAROUND TIME ABOUT 3 HOURS. TURN ALL YOUR CARDS IN, AND 3 HOURS LATER
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306 THEY COME BACK WITH "SYNTAX ERROR LINE 5". AH, TIME SHARE AND MICROS,
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307 YOU HAVE MADE LEARNING SO MUCH EASIER!!
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308
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309 [][][][][][][][][][][][][]PAM.[][][][][]
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310 Ah shoot, PAM. Those revelations take all the mystery out of your presence!
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311 What are you holding back?! Dreamer
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312 ...........................?.............................
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313 AS YES...THAT FEELS SOOOOOOO GOOD. DO IT AGAIN...AND AGAIN...AND AGAIN...
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314 FASTER...FASTER...FASTER!!!
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315 ANYBODY GOT A CIG?
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316
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317 }[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
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318 WHICH REMINDS ME OF THE JOKE:
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319 MAN TO WOMAN, "DO YOU SMOKE AFTER INTERCOURSE?"
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320
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321 WOMAN RESPONDS, "I DON'T KNOW, I NEVER LOOKED!"
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322
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323 BESIDES, THE MYSTERY IS STILL THERE. YOU STILL DON'T KNOW WHO I AM, HOW
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||
324 OLD I AM (THOUGH YOU NOW HAVE SOME IDEA), OR MUCH ELSE. MIKEY KNOWS MORE
|
||
325 THAN ANYONE ON THIS SYSTEM, BUT HE WON'T TELL. AHH, MYSTERY!!!
|
||
326
|
||
327 [][][][][][][][][][][][]PAM.[][][][][][]
|
||
328 DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~
|
||
329
|
||
330 PAM: GOOD GAWD! Your THAT OLD???.....
|
||
331 Just kidding. Actually, that doesn't narrow it down much. Believe
|
||
332 it or not, there are still schools that use batch processing via punched
|
||
333 cards. U of W for example requires the use of cards for their beginning
|
||
334 CS classes. I believe that PSU also did for some classes until recently.
|
||
335 Anyway, thanks for the above info. I am delighted that my original three
|
||
336 assumptions, premature as they may have been, were correct.
|
||
337 As to the two ongoing discussion of /0, one regarding mathematical theory
|
||
338 and the other regarding computer applications, I would like to address my-
|
||
339 self to the latter, as I am still awaiting a response on the former.
|
||
340 If I understand correctly what you (PAM) were suggesting, it would work,
|
||
341 and would probably be preferable to returning zero in most cases (with
|
||
342 the possible exception of business applications such as those previously
|
||
343 discussed [one must exercise extreme caution in what one says on this
|
||
344 system]), and in some cases even preferable to returning MAXINT.
|
||
345 There are some inherent problems, though. Although it has been a long,
|
||
346 long time (punched-card days) since I have used ForTran, I seem to recall
|
||
347 that it supports complex numbers. I am not aware of any basic interpretors
|
||
348 or compilers that do so, however. So, creatures such as SQR(-1) and
|
||
349 Undefined must be represented in memory as a string if they are to have
|
||
350 their own symbol. So the bulk of the data must also be in string format.
|
||
351 IN GENERAL (I stress these former words) numerical data is represented
|
||
352 in floating point format, so each number requires two bytes of memory,
|
||
353 one for the mantissa and one for the power of ten (simplified). In string
|
||
354 format though, a byte is required for
|
||
355 each character. So 132.56, for example, would require two bytes if
|
||
356 treated as a number and six bytes if treated as a string. Where division
|
||
357 is involved, you will almost inevitably have greater than two digits
|
||
358 to deal with, so the memory requirements would be much greater.
|
||
359 Also this data would have to be converted to numerical format in order
|
||
360 to perform any computations and prior to this it would have to be checked
|
||
361 for the non-convertable values SQR(-1)
|
||
362 and Undefined in order to prevent errors. All this manipulation would
|
||
363 take the computer about as much time as all this typing has taken me.
|
||
364 Pardon my lack of brevity.
|
||
365
|
||
366 Dirty Ol' Man
|
||
367
|
||
368 DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~
|
||
369 Let's hear it for verbosity!
|
||
370 ==========-----------==========
|
||
371 HERE, HERE!!!
|
||
372 THERE, THERE!!!
|
||
373 WHERE, WHERE???
|
||
374 -------------------------------
|
||
375 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
|
||
376 WELL, IT SEEMS THAT WE HAVE A PROBLEM OF MATH, AND NECESSARY APPLICATIONS,
|
||
377 THAT CAN'T BE SOLVED WITH THE FORMS OF MATHEMATICS AVAILABLE. ARE YOU
|
||
378 PLANNING ON INVENTING A NEW MATH TO TAKE THESE PROBLEMS INTO ACCOUNT? IF
|
||
379 NOT, THEN AREN'T YOU PUTTING THE HORSE BEFORE DESCARTES?
|
||
380
|
||
381 ALL THAT FOR A LOUSY JOKE. SORRY FOLKS.....................
|
||
382
|
||
383 [][][][][][][][][][][][]PAM.[][][][][][]
|
||
384 Pam, using a special character like italic i for sqr(-1) is very dificult,
|
||
385 as most computers have no such character. In general (where have I heard
|
||
386 this before) the business computers have very simple graphics or none at
|
||
387 all since it wasn't considered useful. The home computers are more closely
|
||
388 related to video games, and are more modern, so they may have fairly good
|
||
389 graphics, but in contrast fall down in such things as memory or disc size.
|
||
390 This is changing rapidly, soon just abut anything will have graphics. Your
|
||
391 simple machine is likely more advanced than you think.
|
||
392 I still haven't seen any use for /0 , all comments have either been math
|
||
393 errors, or involved checking for 0, not dividing by it.
|
||
394 Dom, you asked about bat caves, and how bats excrete, soo If you are truly
|
||
395 dirty, you should love bat cave, they are the most disgusting things on
|
||
396 earth. Bats have the most parasites of any known species. Of course the
|
||
397 best (worst) caves harbor vampires, as GIGO , or as here liquid in, liquid..
|
||
398 you will never forget the smell, no matter how hard you try. I cannot
|
||
399 believe anyone who had seen and smelled guano would call himself after it.
|
||
400
|
||
401 Last night I noted the question of cooperating or defecting, and said it
|
||
402 was an issue of ethics. Since noone answered I will say we must stop all
|
||
403 defectors before they hurt us. We call defectors criminals, but in the USA
|
||
404 we have this funny idea about prior restraint, and punish crimes only after
|
||
405 they are committed. This is wrong: by the time we get around to punishing
|
||
406 someone for a crime, the law has already failed: the crime has been done.
|
||
407 Putting them ih jail afterwards only lets them learn from the older criminal
|
||
408 ///////////////////////////////////BAD 1739pm 16 sep 83\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
|
||
409 *******
|
||
410
|
||
411 _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
|
||
412 - Gee, all this discussion. Leave for a few days and what do I get? I missed -
|
||
413 - an entire disk of neat stuff! -
|
||
414 - Maybe a way of error-trapping zero would be for the language to start -
|
||
415 - out error-trapping zero and substituting some neat number (0 or infinity) -
|
||
416 - in place of the divide-by-zero problem. For those who want errors when di- -
|
||
417 - viding by zero, a command (NZT, No Zero Trap?) would be available to allow -
|
||
418 - divide-by-zeros to be error-trapped by the user. -
|
||
419 - By the way, what are you people out there using to pause output? Just -
|
||
420 - a bit curious.......................................................Pioneer -
|
||
421 -_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-
|
||
422 Gee? just what could that be?
|
||
423 i rely do wonder hmm...
|
||
424 /.,
|
||
425 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
|
||
426 BAD, MAYBE I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU ARE ASKING FOR. IF PUTTING
|
||
427 PEOPLE IN JAIL AFTER THEY COMMIT CRIMES IS WRONG, WHAT SHOULD BE DONE WITH
|
||
428 THEM? OR ARE YOU SAYING THAT PUTTING THEM IN JAIL BEFORE THEY COMMIT THE
|
||
429 CRIMES WOULD BE BETTER? HOW WILL WE BE SURE SOMEONE IS GOING TO COMMIT A
|
||
430 CRIME? I SAY THAT YOU ARE GOING TO ROB A BANK IN 2 WEEKS, SO LET'S PUT YOU
|
||
431 IN JAIL, OK? I JUST DON'T SEE HOW THIS WOULD WORK. COULD YOU GIVE US MORE
|
||
432 INFORMATION ON THIS.
|
||
433
|
||
434 [][][][][][][][][][][][]PAM.[][][][][][]
|
||
435 I see what he's saying. The answer is very simple. First, you make a tachyonic
|
||
436 memory device (TMD) which gives you a negative 100 nsec access time. Then
|
||
437 store and retrieve information on criminal behavior 1,000,000,000,000 times,
|
||
438 so you can predict a day ahead of time who will commit what crime. Lock him
|
||
439 up the appropriate period of time, and you're saved.
|
||
440 This, though, is like the old joke: How to be a sucessful millionaire? First,
|
||
441 get a million dollars. Sorry, but it seems old dumb jokes are the rage these
|
||
442 days.
|
||
443 Here's a new dumb joke.
|
||
444 There's these two white hoodlums, one of which has just stolen some
|
||
445 government-giveaway cheese from a black in the ghetto:
|
||
446
|
||
447 Other hoodlum: "What's that you got there"
|
||
448 Thief: "Some cheese I stole in the ghetto"
|
||
449 Other hoodlum: "What kind of cheese is it?"
|
||
450 Thief: "Nacho"
|
||
451 Other hoodlum: "How do you know it's nacho"
|
||
452 Thief: "When I stole it from the guy, he said "Hey, bro', dat's
|
||
453 na' 'cho cheese!" "
|
||
454 ()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()() P. V. Jeltz()()()()()()()()
|
||
455 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
|
||
456
|
||
457 The predicting-the-future bit reminds me of an old Asimov story called
|
||
458 "The Endocronic Properties of Resublimated Thiotimoline". Anybody read
|
||
459 that one?
|
||
460 /Elberich\
|
||
461 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
|
||
462
|
||
463 She walks softly yet stands proudly a beauty to behold
|
||
464 Her eyes look tenderly upon me
|
||
465 She speaks of love and happiness forever to hold
|
||
466 I turn speak of my love in return
|
||
467 Yet all I find is a steel door that is ice cold
|
||
468 I press on and pry open the door, for did she not speak of love?
|
||
469 As I open the door a fire from within engulfs me
|
||
470 and burns me to the floor.
|
||
471 Broken Heart
|
||
472 ***************************************************************
|
||
473 In recent years there has been a good deal of controversy regarding which
|
||
474 colour CRT ultimately produces the least eye strain on the operator.
|
||
475 At present, the display of 'light characters on a dark background'
|
||
476 predominates over 'dark characters on a light background'. However the
|
||
477 German standards suggest that dark on light is a better adaptation to
|
||
478 human capabilities and to the working environment, and strongly suggests
|
||
479 this for future CRT selections based on the following assumptions:
|
||
480 1. Unavoidable reflections are found to be less disturbing with dark
|
||
481 cahracters on a light background.
|
||
482 2. Less fatigue results from better match between luminescent levels of
|
||
483 document and screen.
|
||
484 3. The closer the luminescence of the screen is to the illumination required
|
||
485 for general office work, the lower the resulting eye strain naturally
|
||
486 caused between adaptation in looking from light to dark or dark to light.
|
||
487 4. Recognition of dark characters on a light background.
|
||
488
|
||
489 As a guideline, when displaying light characters on a dark background, the
|
||
490 contrast should range between 3 to 1 and 15 to 1. When displaying dark
|
||
491 characters on a light background, the luminescent level of the background
|
||
492 must be at least three times that of the characters. In any case, contrast
|
||
493 levels should be adjustable.
|
||
494 An excerpt from a paper on ergonomic design.
|
||
495 ********** CISTOP MIKEY ******** 17 SEPT 83 ********* 11:20AM *************
|
||
496 Congratulations, MIKEY: You have redeemed your tax-calculation error b submitting the ergonomic tips above. People,
|
||
497 does this suggest to you that the operator, having chosen the contrast setting, is thus the prime cause of his own
|
||
498 eyestrain? Gee, maybe this reinforces the notion that we, must face the consequences for our own acts, however trivial,
|
||
499 shunning the popular notion (espoused by schools, governments, unions, media, and societal lazies) that "whatever
|
||
500 disturbs me is someone else's fault, and 'They' better make it right" (whoever 'They' is)!
|
||
501 Silent Scribe
|
||
502 ###############################################################################
|
||
503 BYE
|
||
504
|
||
505 OFF
|
||
506
|
||
507 %#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#
|
||
508 A short note:
|
||
509 Computer languages have limited relationship to mathamatics....
|
||
510 Proof:
|
||
511 Watch a Mathamaticions eyes when he sees in a computer manual:
|
||
512
|
||
513 A = A + 1
|
||
514
|
||
515 I have seen one go into a long hold....
|
||
516
|
||
517 Computers are to be USED. If a hard definition for x/0 serves a useful
|
||
518 purpose, great! If someone says its illeagle, tell him to call tha
|
||
519 proper authorities.
|
||
520 the Phantom Glitch
|
||
521 p.s. how about a moment of silence for Osborne?
|
||
522 p.p.s. Kaypro is next....
|
||
523 #%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%
|
||
524 """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
|
||
525 HOW OLD ARE SOME OF YOU GUYS OR GALS ON HERE?????????????????
|
||
526 """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
|
||
527 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
|
||
528 - Poor Osborne - it looked promising, but didn't pan out... -
|
||
529 - To the above: I'm fourteen, young enough to want to talk about things and-
|
||
530 - also young enough to get bawled out for wanting to talk about things by my -
|
||
531 - seniors.............................................................Pioneer -
|
||
532 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
|
||
533 ?
|
||
534
|
||
535 WHAT THIS SYSTEM DO?
|
||
536
|
||
537
|
||
538
|
||
539 It sure is hard to tell all of the players without a program. Espescially
|
||
540 when the players keep changing their names several times on each disk! Even
|
||
541 so, the dialog here still makes all of the other systems that I use seem
|
||
542 backward, rigid, and artificial.
|
||
543 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
|
||
544 How about an opportunity for employment?
|
||
545 If you missed the ad in a recent Oregonian...
|
||
546 PGE is looking for a Communications Engineer to work in the Telecommunications
|
||
547 Department. We are looking for an all around sort of person with a background
|
||
548 in Electronic Engineering (and professional registration... or the capability
|
||
549 to be registered). Some experience in analog/digital design would be nice,
|
||
550 although this is not a major part of the job.
|
||
551
|
||
552 The primary responsibilities would be in systems level configuration of
|
||
553 telephone, data transmission, telemetry, mobile radio, and microwave
|
||
554 equipment. If you lke working on one thing for a month at a time, forget it.
|
||
555 Versatility is all-important!!
|
||
556 Familiarity with computers and power system technology would be great. An
|
||
557 FCC Second Class License (or the current equivalent) is a plus.
|
||
558
|
||
559 The working environment is mostly casual, but the ability to provide
|
||
560 services to other departments on a professional level is mandatory.
|
||
561 Compensation is very fair, and depends on experience.
|
||
562 Non-smoker definitely prefered!!!!!!
|
||
563 Contact Terry Conboy at 226-8384 between 8 and 4:30 M-F.
|
||
564 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
|
||
565 WELL NOW!
|
||
566 MIKEY - OK FORGET IT. I DIDN'T REALIZE THIS WAS ANYTHING BUT A STANDARD CPM
|
||
567 SYSTEM OF SOME KIND. AND IBM HAS ALREADY DONE WHAT WE WANT ON SOME MODELS
|
||
568 AND LANGUAGES - BECAUSE THEY HAVE THE MOST EXPERIENCE, OF COURSE!
|
||
569 WHAT IS THE SYSTEM YOU USE CALLED?
|
||
570 DOM - MAYBE IT WAS A TAD HARSH - MY OWN IMPESSION IS THAT MOST FIRST YEAR
|
||
571 MATH COURSES OR MATH COURSES OF ANY YEAR FOR THAT MATTER ARE DESIGNED TO
|
||
572 DRIVE CREATIVE PEOPLE AWAY FROM THE SUBJECT. AND THE ESSENCE OF BEING
|
||
573 A PEDAGOGUE IS THAT THE MORE ONE LEARNS THE MORE ONE THINKS
|
||
574 NO ONE ELSE KNOWS ANYTHING.
|
||
575 BAD - I PRESUME YOU MEAN BATPOOP AS OPPOSED TO GUANO - GUANO IS A SUBSTANCE
|
||
576 SOMETIMES USED FOR FERTILIZER, NOT ALL THAT NOXIOUS, COMPRISED MAINLY OF
|
||
577 *BIRD* POOP
|
||
578 BAD - I THINK YOUR IDEA IS BEING TRIED IN MOST OF THE WORLDS COUNTRIES
|
||
579 RIGHT NOW TO SOME EXTENT, BEING ESPECIALLY POPULAR IN THE COMMUNIST
|
||
580 AND OTHER TOTALITARIAN STATES. HITLER USED THIS SORT OF PREVENTATIVE
|
||
581 DETENTION ON THE JEWS, POLES, GYPSIES. HE HAD THE SAME IDEA YOU SEEM TO -
|
||
582 HE WANTED TO PREVENT SEDITION, AND HAD IDENTIFIED UNSATISFIED MINORITY
|
||
583 GROUPS AS ONE PLACE YOU GET A LOT OF SEDITION. REMEMBER ALL THOSE JEWS
|
||
584 LIKE EINSTEIN WHO DEFECTED TO THE U.S. WITH GERMAN SCIENTIFIC DATA IN
|
||
585 THEIR POSESSION. REMEMBER THAT INTELLECTUALS ARE OFTEN AMONG THE FIRST
|
||
586 TO BE IMPRISONED - AS THEY ARE OFTEN A DISSATISFIED LOT AND PRONE TO
|
||
587 ANTI-GOVERNMENT ACTS, TAKEN AS A WHOLE.
|
||
588 PIONEER - USE CONTROL-S
|
||
589 DOC - ADIOS - REMEMBER COLLEGE TEACHERS ARE JUST PEOPLE WHO NEVER GOT OUT
|
||
590 OF SCHOOL
|
||
591 DEAR SILENT - NOT ALL TERMINAL HAVE CONTRAST ADJUSTMENT
|
||
592 MIKEY - I HAVE WORKED A LOT WITH IBM 5211 TERMINALS WHICH GIVE YOU A CHOICE
|
||
593 OF LITE ON DARK OR THE OPPOSITE - I PREFER DARK ON LIGHT, BUT MOST
|
||
594 PEOPLE WHO USE THOSE TERMINALS REFUSE TO USE DARK ON LIGHT - SAY IT HURTS
|
||
595 THEIR EYES BECAUSE ITS TOO BRIGHT! DOESN'T MAKE SENSE TO ME, BUT....
|
||
596 PHANTOM - DULY OBSERVED - BUT WHY KAYPRO - THEIR SALES ARE ACCELERATING
|
||
597 AND THEY JUST WENT PUBLIC - YOU DON'T LIKE THE PRODUCT?
|
||
598 TO ALL: SHOULD WE GIVE OUR AGES? CONSIDERING ALL THE CHEAP SHOTS TAKEN HERE
|
||
599 ABOUT GROWNING UP, ETC I'M AFRAID TO TELL THE TRUTH - MY EGO MIGHT GET
|
||
600 SLAM-DUNKED ON THE AGE ISSUE AS A WAY OF RESPONDING TO AN ARGUMENT
|
||
601 ABOUT THE ORIGINS OF THE IBIS.
|
||
602 )))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))BATPOOP, THE MAGNIFICENT++++++++++++++
|
||
603 Mike, before you glorify the German standards on computers too much, consider
|
||
604 their placement of the all important return key: small and out of the way.
|
||
605 Dark letters on a lite background may be better in a brightly lit office, but
|
||
606 when I tried it here, it blew me away. I don't have enough control on the
|
||
607 contrast. The choice of lite on dark also has one other advantage: it is much
|
||
608 easier on the hardware. I like white, it seems many like green, but
|
||
609 beer bottle brown is very German. Any votes for red or violet?
|
||
610 As to preventive justice being totalitarian, does the current ratio of blacks
|
||
611
|
||
612 to whites in US jails mean anything to you? Or, since a man in the street with
|
||
613 a deadly weapon is perfectly legal, until after he shoots someone, of what
|
||
614 value is jailing him to the one he shot? There are far more honest people here
|
||
615 than criminals, the justice system should protect them.
|
||
616 Most guano in the US comes from bats: it may be just fertilzer when you see it,
|
||
617 but have you seen it where it grows?
|
||
618 //////////////////////////////BAD\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
|
||
619 TO PERSON USING CAPS ABOVE : YOUR NO FUN! HOW CAN ANYONE GET MAD AT YOU IF
|
||
620 ARE SO POLITE AND AGREEABLE?! GIVE US SOMETHING TO BE MAD AT YOU FOR SO
|
||
621 WE CAN ARGUE ABOUT IT......
|
||
622 TO: BAD THE KEYBORD STANDARD YOU SPEAK OF IS BUT ONE OF MANY. I DO NOT
|
||
623 AGREE WITH THAT PARTICULAR IMPLIMENTATION MYSELF. AS FOR MYSELF I PREFER
|
||
624 THE DEVORAK ARANGMENT, YET I CONTINUE TO USE THE OLD QWERTY KEYBOARDS BECAUSE
|
||
625 IT IS SO DIFFICULT TO SET UP AND USE THE DEVORAK. ALSO IT MAKES IT DIFFICULT
|
||
626 TO SWITCH BACK TO QWERTY WHEN YOU HAVE TO. MOST KEYBOARD DESIGNS ARE VERY
|
||
627 POORLY THOUGHT OUT. SUCH AS THIS ONE I AM USING HAS THE RET KEY SHIFTED ONE
|
||
628 KEY TO THE RIGHT. IT IS ALSO DOWN ONE FROM MY ADM3 WHICH MAKES IT REAL FUN.
|
||
629 *********** CISTOP MIKEY ******** 10:44AM ***** 18 SEPT 83 *****************
|
||
|