629 lines
40 KiB
Plaintext
629 lines
40 KiB
Plaintext
FILE ON
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MARGIN IS 79
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STATUS: ALL ALLOWED
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NUMBER OF LINES: 629
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1 If you are in need of help, you need but ask....
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2 ************************ REMOVED: 24 AUG 83 ***************************
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3 Welcome to BWMS (BackWater Message System) Mike Day System operator
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4 ************************************************************
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5 GENERAL DISCLAIMER: BWMS IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY INFORMATION PLACED ON
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6 THIS SYSTEM.
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7 BWMS was created as an electronic bill board. BWMS is a privatly owned
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8 and operated system which is currently open for use by the general public.
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9 No restrictions are placed on the use of the system.
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10 It is intended that the system be normally used for messages and
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11 advertisments by the users. As the system is privatly owned, I retain the
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12 right to remove any and all messages which I may find offensive
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13 to me. Additionally because of the limited size of the system, it will be
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14 periodically purged of older messages. (only 629 lines of data can be saved)
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15 The saved information will be cycled to drive 'B' while the information on
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16 drive 'B' will be archived, and a fresh disk will be installed in drive 'A'.
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17 To leave a message, type 'ENTER' and use ctrl/C or break to get out
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18 of the enter mode. The message is automaticly stored.
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19 If after entering the message you find you made a mistake,
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20 use the replace command to replace the line.
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21 To exit from the system, type 'OFF' then hang up.
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22 Type 'HELP' to see other commands that are available on the system.
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23 ========================================
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24
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25 -_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-
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26 | Hey, a fresh disk! But what's the matter with drive B, Mikey? Whenever I |
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27 | switch over to drive B and try to execute a command, it hangs up on me! |
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28 | Oh well.............................................................Pioneer |
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29 _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
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30 Yeah mikey, it doesn't work..... That really is a pain in the
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31 *"#%"#)%"#$%)!<"#*'?$"!')#+ $("!)&> ("#$!)(&"' %*)&("#!)""#!%$ (&
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32 #"%!$)'("%!( )%#"()&'%"! &*#%!) (%$"!( )%"!) (#%!* (#!% &()(# *
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33 "#%!( '&"!#( )"!#) ( *%=$<"*#+%$() <"#*%$("!#%$!"#%$&()" *#$
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34 What's going on? Did someone remove the disk or keep the door
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35 open?
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36
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37
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38 TRON
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39
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40 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Yes, it is really frustrating!~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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41 ANOTHER VOICE HEARD FROM "N U T S" WHERE IS DRIVE B?????????
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42 Wake up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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43 I know you're out there..... I can hear you breathing.....
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44 $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
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45
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46
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47 WHAT'S THIS? IT SEEMS AS THO THESE PEOPLE THINK THERE IS SOME SORT OF PROPBLEM!
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48
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49 DO YOU THINK IT COULD BE TRUE? COULD BWMS BE HAVING SOME SORT OF HARDWARE FAILU
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50 IF SO WE COULD BE IN REAL TROUBLE.
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51 TUNE IN NEXT WEEK .................
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52
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53 FOR THE RESULTS IN "THE DEATH OF BWMS?"
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54
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55
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56 $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
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57
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58 FM: CISTOP MIKEY RE: DRIVE B (OPPS)
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59
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60 YES, I CHANGED DISKS THIS MORNING, AND I BET I FORGOT TO CLOSE THE DORR
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61 ON DRIVE B WHEN I CHANGED IT. IT WILL BE BACK ON LINE WHEN I GET HOME
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62 TONIGHT (PROBABLY SOMEWHERE'S BETWEEN 9:00PM AND 1:00AM PLUS OR MINUS
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63 24 HRS.)
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64 ***** CISTOP MIKEY (BLUSH..) ****** 3:47PM *** 18 AUG 83 **********
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65
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66 }[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
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67 GLYME'S FORMULA FOR SUCCESS
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68 The secret of success is sincereity.
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69 Once you can fake that
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70 you've got it made.
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71
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72 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
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73 who's Glyme?
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74
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75 ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
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76 Glyme must have been a sociologist who later went into politics.
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77 ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
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78 //////
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79 Who's complaining about finding out how much more we need to spend on health
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80 for people in poor health? Actually, this is important, it determines what
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81 we should spend our now rather short dollars on. If poor health doesn't cost
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82 us money, why bother changing it? Besides, it is easier to get money for
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83 something you know about. I'm surprised it's only 7 times more.
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84 I was looking at some graphs of crimes against time, and noticed some
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85 odd things: suicides, murders, illegimate births, and rape all followed the
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86 same general curve: down from about 1914 through about 1940, generally, then
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87 up. There were sudden jumps in 1921,29,44,55-60,63-67; sudden drops in1923,
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88 33-43,61,68,76 or so. I understand the drop during WW2, and the jump in 29,
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89 but the interesting thing was they all followed the same general curve, with
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90 the jumps and wiggles in the same place. Looks like a common cause for all,
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91 maybe? Based on this, the suggestion to treat rapists with hormones to
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92 reduce their sex drive is misplaced, if rape is related to violence not sex
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93 drive. (It sure works on cats, though. One shot of Depo-provira will take
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94 the Tom out of a cat. It works best on newly neutered cats, though.
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95 ///////////////////////BAD\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
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96
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97 BAD: what does the chart show for the current time period? From say 77-82?
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98 I wonder if the rape/crime rate has increased or decreased in recent years
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99 with relation to the world population.
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100 If so, will it continue to rise or will it fall with the introduction of
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101 computers into the society...or even if there is a correlation between them.
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102
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103 This could be an interesting conversation....
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104
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105
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106 The Sysm....
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107
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108 ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
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109 Regarding the employer vs employee bit on drive b, I have a question
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110 Do you really think either can get along without the other?
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111 I fail to understand why we seem to be conditioned to think
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112 of this (and Labor/Management) as an ADVERSARY relationship. I
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113 know people who don't see why a corporation needs 5% (or 10, 15
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114 whatever) profit, yet they complain that they can't get more
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115 than 5.5% interest on their bank account. There are other equally
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116 silly (stupid?) attitudes but this is easier to poke holes in
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117 than some of the others.
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118
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119 PAM: Good idea, I suspect that a biochemical trigger could
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120 be arranged. Trouble is, unless you want a "fixed" cycle (more
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121 about THAT later) you will have to "learn" to ovulate! Don't
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122 worry about shocking us with "orgasm", THAT word can be found
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123 even in the newspapers. But if we use the "masked" genes to get
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124 the "ape" estrus pattern, you MIGHT lose your orgasms! It seems
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125 that as far as they can tell FEMALE APES DON'T HAVE THEM (ouch!!).
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126 Unless you are "abnormal", you DO have "fixed" cycle already. Or
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127 at least as fixed as can be expected of such a complex biochemical
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128 setup. Maybe it'd just be easier to have some part of the body
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129 (the outer portions of the genitals, perhaps?) change color while
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130 you are receptive. This could be keyed to some of the chemicals
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131 already manufactured in the body. If they can tell whether or not
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132 you are receptive with a blood test (I think they can, anybody
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133 know for sure?) then this would be a "trivial" modification.
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134 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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135 Hey, I bet we could design an implantable sensor to do the same
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136 thing RIGHT NOW! Anybody have any suggestions on design or placement
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137 of such a device? (yes, I know. I've just extended the discussion
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138 to "bionics")
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139
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140 On the tax credit bit, I think that a SMALL percentage of the
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141 teacher's salary, building maintenance, etc could be credited.
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142 After all, if you look at it another way: if ALL the kids in private
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143 schools went to public schools, how many more teachers, school
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144 buildings & so forth would be required? Now - divide the cost
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145 of THAT among the parents of those children. THAT is closer to
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146 the correct figure (probably a bit high, but $30 is a bit low!)
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147
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148 I would be interested in comments on this "figure". Please, use
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149 my technique- don't attack, just suggest a different alternative!
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150 ____________________________Leonard____________________________
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151 Leonard:
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152 I think your appoach to the 'problem' is probably the most intellegent
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153 one I've seen to date. A minimum amount of emotional hype, and a well
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154 thought out consideration instead of the knee-jerk emotional responses
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155 I've seen so far. I applaud you on your attitude to the debate.
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156 ***** CISTOP MIKEY (I THOUGHT I WAS STAYING OUT OF THIS!) *****************
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157 Aaargh I have negative 30 seconds to write this in! Mikey, oh Mikey, you
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158 know my voice...tell me quickly whether your friend has had success in his
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159 job search, and if he has contacted my new company. I might flit past this
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160 place Monday, or this weekend if I find some free time to jaunt to Tigard...
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161 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
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165 Hi there, Lady of your word. 236-xxxx...remember? Or is the
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166 second shoe to dangle interminally?
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167 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 8-19 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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168 **************************************************************
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169 What melodious voice do I hear calling thru the door of the Inn?
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170 The keeper doth exclaim err she drove out of sight. Yes to both
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171 queries. While he did inquire of the company in question, he is
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172 now working for a different one called Microcosom. He is very
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173 happy, not only is the job enjoyable and the people friendly,
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174 he is making 50% more then at his old job! I thank you kindly
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175 for your concern and help for him.
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176 ******** CISTOP MIKEY ******** 19 AUG 83 ****** 10:44PM *******
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177 ==========================================================================
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178 in three weeks (9-12-83) 7 puppies will be ready to venture off on their
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179 own with a new master of course. 5 of them are black with occassional
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180 white stripes down some faces and others have brown paws, all are
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181 female. 2 of them are beige ,one of which is a female and finally 1 male.
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182 in four weeks our second batch of puppies will be ready . these are mostly
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183 brown with a few light brown tummies, a couple of white toes and ears that
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184 will stand up in the future. there are only 6 of these! one male though.
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185 lab is dominate in all, especially the first group. if interested call
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186 658-xxxx. these are not for eating!!!! they'll make good watch dogs.
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187 ----------
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188 Doesn't the above letter resemble My Dead Dog Rover in any way?
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189 ----------
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190 I think the question was "How much is saved by not having 1 child in the
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191 classroom, to which the answer is not much. If all or many left, that is a
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192 diferent story, but not all would or could.
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193 As to the curve of crimes, etc: it is going up now, at a steadily rising rate.
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194 It doesn't seem to relate directly to population, which was not going down
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195 prior to WW2, or to computers, either. Anyone with the correct reason knows
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196 a lot more about what makes people tick than any expert. (or is damn lucky.)
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197 My guess is economic and social pressures on weak personalities, what's yours???
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198 ////////////////////////////////////BAD\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
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199 PUPPIES? WOULD YOU CARE TO TRADE FOR A KITTEN? WE GOT LOTS HERE...
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200 ......................................................................
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201 Unfortunately, Leonard (and a few others) you don't seem to understand
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202 the difference between a MARGINAL cost and an AVERAGE cost. (not just school,
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203 but any product/service/etc. I will explain
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204 Imagine there is a need for 1000 widgets. The machine which must be
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205 built to make them costs $100,000. Once the machine is built, you can make
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206 a widget for $1.00. in materials/labor. So if you make 1000, it will cost
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207 the manufacturer $101,000. He must sell them at $101.00 just to break even.
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208 Along comes some wise guy. He says, 'hey, it only costs you an
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209 extra $1.00 to make a widget. Why don't you sell it to me for $2.00 and
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210 make a 100% profit.' The problem is that the MARGINAL cost (the cost to make
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211 'just one more') widget is indeed $1.00, but the AVERAGE cost is $101.00.
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212 If everyone asked to purchase widgets at close to the MARGINAL cost, then
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213 most of the FIXED costs of the widgets would not get paid for at all!
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214 So if you think it is fair to merely refund the MARGINAL cost of
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215 having 'just another' student attend a school, you are playing games in the
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216 worst way. Remember, the teacher's salary is the same no matter how many
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217 students are in the class, so you are still trying to charge the private-
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218 school student for the cost of public school!
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219 I am not surprised that you or anyone would make this mistake. The
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220 MARGINAL/AVERAGE cost dualism is a common trap to fall into, especially
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221 when someone wants to understate something's cost. Clearly, anyone who
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222 wants private school students to ALSO pay for public school will pick up
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223 on this instantly.
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224 But consider this mistake as an example of something that SOUNDS
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225 fair, but really isn't when studied carefully.
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226 Lest you think no one else can fall into this trap, about a year ago the
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227 ICC (interstate commerce commission) changed the basis for taxes on trucks.
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228 You probably don't realize it , but studies indicate that a 50,000 pound
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229 truck does about 1000 times as much damage to a road per passage as a
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230 5,000 pound car. (a highly non-linear relationship, to say the least!)
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231 Before the change, here is how they allocated the costs of the
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232 road to cars and trucks: First, the required thickness/quality of road assuming
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233 only CARS were on the road was calculated. Then, the required thickness/quality
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234 of road assuming BOTH CARS and TRUCKS were on the road was calculated. The
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235 difference (which was relatively small compared to the total) was charged to
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236 the trucks, and the rest (the majority of the costs) was allocated to the
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237 cars!!!! This, even though perhaps 10 times as much damage might have been
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238 done by the trucks!
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239 The rules were changed to more accurately reflect the amount of damage
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240 that each vehicle causes. The truckers complained (Naturally!) because they
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241 no longer got a free ride.
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242 What happened here? Before, the TRUCKS were being charged the
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243 MARGINAL costs for the road, while the CARS were being charged the AVERAGE
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244 costs for the road.
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245 Who says you can't lie with mathematics?!?
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246 ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
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247 Ah yes...good point, but also quite obvious.
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248 as far as the marginal/average ratio...I think fair would fall somewhere
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249 in between. Note that if a manufacturer sold enough of any product, he would
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250 eventually get back his initial
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251 investment. It is the difference between the average and marginal costs that
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252 gives the manufacturer the competitive
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253 edge on another company...if there
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254 initial overhead (i.e. the production machine) is less than the competitors...
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255 this is why larger companies always have the edge when it comes to price,
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256 because they can buy a large production machine at a high price, but in the
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257 end, it will produce more products at a faster rate which will pay for the
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258 initial investment.
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259
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260 The sysm...
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261 ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
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262 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
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263 RIGHT ON TRUCKS: WRONG ON WIDGETS: THE HIGHWAYS REPAIR COSTS ESCALATE THROUGH
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264 USE: IF YOU AVERAGE THE COST OF WIDGETS,THE MORE YOU MSAKE THE CHEAPER THEY GET.
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265 THE TROUBLE WITH MOST MANUFATURERS IS THAT THEY KEEP TRYING TO PASS ON THE
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266 ORIGINAL INVESTMENT TO THE CONSUMER. THOSE THAT DON'T DO THIS ARE TRULY COM
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267 COMPETITVE. FOR AN EXAMPLE MOST OF YOU SHPHOULD BE ABLE TO UNDERSTAND LOOK AT
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268 WHAT COMMODORE HAS DONE TO THE COMPUTER MARKET BY CONSTANTLY LOWERING ITS PRICES
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269 TEXAS INSTRUMENTS AND AND ATARI ARE ON THE ROPES, AS ARE MOST OF THE OTHER PE
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270 PERSONAL COMPUTTER MAKERS. IT USED TO BE THAT THE MORE ONE MADE OF A PRODUCT THE
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271 CHEAPER IT GOT. BY MOST CALCULATIONS A NEW CAR SHOULD BE PRACTICALLY FREE! BUT
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272 ALAS THERE IS THHAT OLD FACTOR 'GREED' WORKING AWAY. MANAGEMENT WANTS MORE PR
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273 PROFITS, LABOR WANT ENOUGH TO BE ABLE TO BUY THE PRODUCTS IT MAKES FOR MANAGEMT
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274 ITS A NEVER ENDING CIRCLE, WHERE WILL IT END??
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275 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>!<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
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279 **********.************************************************
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280 Sorry, but you are wrong about the wigit thing yourself. As was
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281 stated earlier, you cannot discount the cost of the equipment and
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282 people in making a product. Thay are a real factor in the cost.
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283 A product does not have an infinate life time, and you cannot just
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284 say that you will average the production cost over a million wigets.
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285 In fact determining the cost as a result of this is a very critical
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286 part of the products birth. It may very well be shelved bacause it
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287 would cost too much to produce. Yes, commodor is selling heavily, and
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288 while they are not loosing money as badly on their computer as the
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289 others are, they are not making it all back. Instead they are relying
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290 on the sales of the accesories to make a profit. Since T.I. and
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291 Atari Want to continue selling theirs, they have no option but to
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292 lose money on theirs by lowering the price below the manuacturing
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293 cost as well. In the case of T.I. it is a massive loss.
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294 As far as cost of a new car, I don't know where you got your idea
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295 that they were cheap to produce. They most deffinately are not.
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296 Yes, they may seem cheap if you consider only the cost of the raw
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297 materials in it, but that is hardly the only cost involved in
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298 producing and selling a car. Case in point the raw materials
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299 that make up your body have been calculated to be about $1.00
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300 in value. Do you think that it only costs that much to produce
|
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301 and maintain yourself?
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302 **************************************************************
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303 MIKEY - DON'T GIVE UP BUDDY WE ALL LOVE YA! - NOTE HOWEVER THAT
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304 LIVELY DISCUSSIONS DO NOT THRIVE ON MEASURED RESPONSES - AS ALL
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305 COLUMNISTS AND TALK SHOW HOSTS KNOW - I THINK THE SAME PRINCIPLES
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306 APPLY TO THIS FORUM. THE CANDOR AND VIGOR OF THE PARTICIPANTS IS
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307 WHAT MAKES THIS (I AGREE) THE BEST BBS GOING. CENSORSHIP OR EVEN
|
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308 GOOD MANNERS WOULD PROBABLY KILL IT.
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309
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310 SEQUENTIALLY:
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311 PIONEER - THE SNOW IS GOING TO BE USED ON SKI SLOPES - YOU CAN SEE
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312 THE SNOW BEING MADE BY THE LITTLE BUGGERS AT APPLIED GENETIC ENGINEERING,
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313 A COMPANY IN A CAL BERKELY BUILDING IN OAKLAND MY SISTER-IN-LAW WORKS FOR
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314 IN THE GENETIC ENGINEERING LAB.
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315 ** MOST PEOPLE WOULD RATHER LIVE TO A RIPE OLD AGE THAN WEAR DESIGNER JEANS
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316 AND DIE YOUNG - THE POINT IS TO LIVE ON - MORE EASILY DONE UNDER ANY
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317 CONDITIONS WHEN THE BODY IS YOUTHFUL
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318 ** TO "DABBLING WITH THE WORK OF GOD", A COUNTERPROPOSAL: RELIGION IS
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319 JUST MASS ORGANIZED SCHIZOPHRENIC DELUSION, OFTEN DEADLY IN IT'S EFFECT,
|
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320 CAUSED BY THE FEAR OF DEATH.
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321 ** PAM - RIGHT ON - MORE PEOPLE OUGHT TO READ THE HISTORY OF SCIENCE -
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322 ALTHOUGH THEIR ARE 'MAD SCIENTIST' MODELS TO CHOSE FROM, I'M AFRAID.
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323 CONSIDER THE NAZI DOCTORS AND THEIR 'EXPERIMENTS' ON PRISONERS, OR THE
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324 GUYS WHO CREATE NEW NERVE GASSES.
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325 ** GREY GOAST I AGREE COMPLETELY, PEOPLE WHO HAVE A LIFE TO LOOK FORWARD
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326 TO MIGHT BE MORE CAREFUL.
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327 GOOD IDEA ELBERITCH IS BEING DONE NOW
|
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328 ** PAUL HOW ABOUT GROWING TRANSPLANTS FROM OUR OWN TISSUE - YOU HAVE TO
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329 UNDERSTAND GENETIC CONTROLS OVER THE PROCESS OF DIFFERENTIATION OF CELLS TO
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330 MAKE THIS OLD SCI-FI IDEA A REALITY.
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331 ** DAVE THIS IS PART OF THE PROCESS OF ARRIVING AT A CONSENSUS FOR SOCIETY
|
||
332 ON THESE TOPICS
|
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333 ** PAM RIGHT ON AGAIN HOPE YOU DON'T TIRE OF BEING THE VOICE OF REASON
|
||
334 ** SORRRY - PRESUMABLY YOU'RE READY TO ENLIGHTEN ME ON THE EXACT CONTEXT
|
||
335 THE PHRASE "OLD SON/SUN" AROSE IN - TO BAD YOU DON'T LIKE MY SPELLING -
|
||
336 I'LL HIRE A SCHOOLMARM TO PROOFREAD MY TEXT.
|
||
337 ** RECESSIVE GENES/DOMINANT GENES ARE NOT A SIMPLE ON OFF KIND OF THING
|
||
338 SEVERAL GENES FOR EYE COLOR OR OTHER TRAITS CAN BE EXPRESSED AT THE SAME TIME
|
||
339 AND SO CAN JUST ONE RECESSIVE GENE BE EXPRESSED - 1 GENE SICKLE CELL CASES
|
||
340 DO HAVE SYPTOMS - THOSE ARE THE ONES THAT LIVE, I BELIEVE.
|
||
341 ** BAD THOSE ARE THE SAME LITTLE BEGGARS THAT ARE TO MAKE SNOW FOR US
|
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342 TO PLAY IN - ALSO AFFECTED THE TOMATO CROP ADVERSELY
|
||
343 ** BAD DOESN'T NEUTERING THE CAT TAKE THE 'TOM' OUT OF HIM? WHY ADD DEPROPRI-
|
||
344 VERA OR WERE YOU JOKING
|
||
345 ** LEONARD - YOUR RULES OF ORDER WILL HAVE EVERYBODY ASLEEP IN NO TIME -
|
||
346 IT'S STIRRING PEOPLE UP THAT WE NEED
|
||
347 ** BAD YOU'RE NOT QUITE FAIR TO THE TAX GUY ON THE THIRTY DOLLARS I FEEL -
|
||
348
|
||
349 WOW WHAT A TUSSLE! I LOVE IT! THEY SHOULD HAVE SAID THAT FOR A PEACEFUL
|
||
350 CONVERSATION DON'T EVER DISCUSS POLITICS, RELIGION, - OR THE LATEST
|
||
351 TECHNOLOGY. HAVING THE TIME OF MY LIFE, YOU'RE ALL GREAT, AND THANKS!
|
||
352
|
||
353 CHUCK
|
||
354 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
|
||
355 Just thought of another, simply marvelous example of the diffence between
|
||
356 marginal costs and average costs: The local movie theatre. Hasn't it
|
||
357 ever occurred to you that all those empty seats could be filled for
|
||
358 almost nothing? After all, the only cost might be a slightly higher air-
|
||
359 conditioning bill in summer (possibly offset by a lower heating bill in
|
||
360 winter) and the slight amount of extra wear and tear on the seats, carpets,
|
||
361 and so on. Perhaps an extra 25 cents or so, max. But try to tell the
|
||
362 theatre owner that he should let you in for 50 cents. Go on, try it!
|
||
363 No, you can't even begin to ignore fixed costs in the calculation.
|
||
364 If you were in business you'd soon learn that.
|
||
365 ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
|
||
366 THE EXAMPLE IS NOT PURE BECAUSE OF THE CUT THAT THE MOVIE DISTRIBUTION
|
||
367 COMPANY WANTS - SOMETIMES A FIXED AMOUNT PER TICKET LIKE .50 OR $3.00
|
||
368 AND SOMETIMES OTHER ARRANGEMENTS. THATS WHY THE THEATER IS SO OFTEN
|
||
369 FULL WHEN OLDIES ARE SHOWN - THE FILM RENTAL IS PER NIGHT OR PER WEEK.
|
||
370 WHEN IT'S PER WEEK (TIME DEPENDENT - FIXED COST) THE THEATER MANAGER
|
||
371 CAN LOWER THE PRICES AND DOES, TO FILL THE THEATER. GO TO THE THEATERS
|
||
372 IN N.W. PORTLAND(WHERE THE HIPPIES GO) AND SEE. WHEN DEALING WITH NEWER
|
||
373 MOVIES YOU GET INTO YOUR HIGH RENTS BUT ALSO PER-TICKET COSTS (SALES
|
||
374 VOLUME DEPENDENT VARIABLES - MARGINALS) AND YOU GET EMPTY THEATERS.
|
||
375
|
||
376 SPEAKING OF MOVIES, IS ANYONE ELSE HERE A FLASHDANCE FAN. WOULD YOU
|
||
377 COMPARE IT TO THE TURNING POINT?
|
||
378 CHUCK
|
||
379 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^?????????????????????????????????????????????????
|
||
380 ***************************************************************
|
||
381 Hamfair/Computer Show
|
||
382 Aug 27 from 9 to 6 , Aug 28 from 9 to 3 At MT. Hood Community
|
||
383 College Gym. There will be comerical displays and swap tables
|
||
384 Admission is $2.00 ,12 and under free.Swap tables $5.00
|
||
385 For more information call Bob at 771-xxxx
|
||
386 Hi Art If you nead help getting that L-pad made up for your
|
||
387 radio let me know. Soldering iron will travel.
|
||
388 OFF
|
||
389 ........................................
|
||
390 Actually, neither the fixed nor the marginal costs are what determine if
|
||
391 producing a product is profitable; the TOTAL cost does. If a widget costs
|
||
392 100,000 fixed and $1 marginal, the cost depends very much on how many can
|
||
393 be sold. If only 1,000 then they cost $101, but if by reducing the cost
|
||
394 (not to the marginal, but to somewhere in between) you can increase the sales,
|
||
395 then a price of, say, $50 might make a profit by more than doubling sales.
|
||
396 For a student on school, the marginal cost is very low compared to the fixed
|
||
397 costs, and the Irate Taxpayer specificly asked to be refunded THE MONEY SAVE
|
||
398 BY NOT HAVING HIS CHILD IN PUBLIC SCHOOL. That is marginal cost.
|
||
399 I don't complain about other's spelling, except in jest: mine is as bad
|
||
400 as any. The Elitist vs mongrel arguement isn't mine.
|
||
401 A neutered tom cat often continues with the bad habits he learned when he
|
||
402 was whole, like spraying to mark his territory, so it is often helpful to give
|
||
403 him some Depo-provira to stop this, after which he probably will never think
|
||
404 of it again. Sex isn't all hormones, a lot of it is learned.
|
||
405 As to sickle cell, the heterzygous sickler has other symptoms, too:
|
||
406 poorer oxygen transfer, for example (they are said to only show problems
|
||
407 at high altitudes) and lower resistance to certain diseases; but malaria
|
||
408 is more important than either of these, so in
|
||
409 Africa it is selected for, not against. Something that kills in 50 years
|
||
410 has no effect on natural selection, that's too late, the children are already
|
||
411 born. We now are concerned with this, though, since we can and do live longer.
|
||
412 /////////////////BAD\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
|
||
413 Where come you, and where now do you go, traveler?
|
||
414 I go adventuring..... He told of lands seen, battles won, daring done..
|
||
415 Draining the last of his mug of ale, he shifted the cat and offered to the
|
||
416 young listeners "Is there any of you who would go adventuring with me?
|
||
417 He will see all that I have spoeken of, and more. Win battles, see strange
|
||
418 places, stranger people, meet danger. But be warned: he who goes adventuring
|
||
419 wit me will never come home again.
|
||
420 Never?
|
||
421 Ahh, never. Those that have tried found that even when they return to the
|
||
422 same spot on the map, it isn't home anymore. The Inn is replaced with
|
||
423 a McDonalds and a Motel 6. Come adventuring with me only if you dare.
|
||
424 .....
|
||
425 Would you??
|
||
426 ...............................
|
||
427 Actually, the public-school funding issue is even worse than it appears. It
|
||
428 is usually funded by property tax, which is a function of how much land/house
|
||
429 a person owns, and not how many children he has to be put through school.
|
||
430 Why shouldn't the charge be directly based on number of children,
|
||
431 since that is the factor determining the cost? I'll answer my own question:
|
||
432 the way the current voting system is set up, it is in the interest of the
|
||
433 people without a lot of land to force those with land/property to pay
|
||
434 for the education of their children. While this may be immoral, it nevertheless
|
||
435 happened.
|
||
436 There are very few taxes which are designed to charge people for
|
||
437 the measure of services they receive; this fact alone demonstrates that most
|
||
438 people view government as a way of living off someone else.
|
||
439 The Irate Taxpayer may have asked for the return of the savings that
|
||
440 a school district had when his kid didn't attend, but this wasn't enough:
|
||
441 A full refund of all taxes he paid for school is the only acceptable answer.
|
||
442 =========((((((((())))))))===========(((((((((()))))))))============
|
||
443 To you just above (may I call you 'Colorful Dasher'?), I suggest your observance
|
||
444 of the voting system also note the other powerful force involved: those whose
|
||
445 livelihood and power are dependent upon a continued flow of public monies for
|
||
446 them to spend and/or earn. They may well play a larger, more detestable role
|
||
447 in the public-sector financing ploy!
|
||
448 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dave ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
|
||
449
|
||
450 ** MAD I DIDN'T THINK IT WAS YOU I MUST HAVE GOOFED UP MY MESSAGE.
|
||
451 ** ABOUT SCHOOLS, MAYBE WE CAN AGREE ON A COUPLE OF PREMISES?
|
||
452 1) THAT ALL CHILDREN SHOULD HAVE AS GOOD AN EDUCATION AS THEY CAN GET
|
||
453 SINCE IT'S GOOD FOR THE COUNTRY AND SINCE THEY'RE NOT RESPONSIBLE
|
||
454 FOR THEIR PARENTS FINANCES.
|
||
455 2) THEIR IS A MINIMUM GROUP OF CHILDREN WHO WILL HAVE TO BE PAID FOR BY
|
||
456 THE PUBLIC - THOSE WHOSE PARENTS JUST PLAIN HAVE NO MONEY AND ARE NOT
|
||
457 EXPECTED TO GET ANY, SUCH AS PARENTS WHO ARE PARALYSED, ALCOHOLIC,
|
||
458 THEMSELVES ILLITERATE, CRAZY, INCARCERATED IN PRISON, DEAD, ETC.
|
||
459 THERE WILL ALWAYS BE SOME SUCH GROUP, ITS JUST A QUESTION OF WHERE
|
||
460 YOU DRAW THE LINE.
|
||
461 3) THE BETTER-OFF WILL BE EXPECTED TO PAY MORE - YOU CAN ONLY GET MONEY
|
||
462 FROM SOMEONE WHO HAS MONEY
|
||
463 4) THERE SHOULD BE SOME PENALTY FOR HAVING TOO MANY CHILDREN - BE FAIR
|
||
464 ABOUT THIS - THIS IS NOT THE SAME ISSUE AS WHO PAYS FOR SCHOOLS
|
||
465 5) THERE IS NOTHING HOLY ABOUT MAKING SOMEONE WHO EARNS 40,000 A YEAR
|
||
466 PAY FIVE TIMES THE TAXES THAT SOMEONE EARNING 20,000 A YEAR PAYS
|
||
467 6) THAT THE PROPERTY TAX AS A METHOD OF RAISING FUNDS FOR SCHOOLS IS
|
||
468 VERY DUBIOUS - IT REACHES WIDOWS AS WELL AS RICH PEOPLE - AND THAT
|
||
469 A BETTER WAY OF FUNDING THESE THINGS COULD PERHAPS BE FOUND.
|
||
470
|
||
471 WE ALL KNOW THAT THE REVOLUTION THAT STARTED THIS COUNTRY WAS A TAX REVOLT
|
||
472 TO A LARGE EXTENT. THATS ONE REASON IT WAS LEAD BY SOME OF THE RICHEST
|
||
473 PEOPLE AROUND IN THOSE DAYS. LIOBERALS BELIEVE THAT CAPITALISTS WILL
|
||
474 CONSENT TO STAY IN BUSINESS AND THUS MAKE THE SYSTEM WORK AT ANY TAX
|
||
475 LEVEL YOU IMPOSE ON THEM. THIS IS DEMONSTRABLY NOT TRUE.
|
||
476
|
||
477 AT THE SAME TIME REMEMBER THAT THOSE SAME FOUNDING FATHERS SET IMMEDIATELY
|
||
478 ABOUT THE PROCESS OF RAISING MONEY FOR THE GOVERNMENT - EVEN THESE GUYS KNEW
|
||
479 YOU HAD TO HAVE SOME TAXES.
|
||
480
|
||
481 THE ORIGINAL SYSTEM FOR FUNDING THE SCHOOLS WAS THAT 1/36TH OF THE LAND
|
||
482 WAS GIVEN TO THE SCHOOLS! THE INCOME DERIVED FROM IT WAS TO BE USED TO
|
||
483 HIRE TEACHERS, BUILD COLLEGES, ETC. THIS WAS JEFFERSONS IDEA. IT ALMOST
|
||
484 TOOK NO TIME AT ALL FOR CORRUPT POLITICIANS AND BSUINESSMEN TO STEAL
|
||
485 ALL OF THIS LAND. AS ADAM SMITH, THE FATHER OF CAPITALISM SAID, YOU
|
||
486 CAN'T PUT TWO BUSINESSMEN TOGETHER FOR FIVE MINUTES WITHOUT A PLAN FOR
|
||
487 DREFRAUDING THE PUBLIC BEING BORN. BECAUSE OF THIS SORT
|
||
488 OF RIPOFF IS SO PREVALENT, I BELIEVE THAT BUSINESS SHOULD PAY SOMEWHAT MORE
|
||
489 IN TAXES BECAUSE OF THE HIGH OVERHEAD THAT THIS CHURLISH CONDUCT
|
||
490 SOMETIMES IMPOSES ON US. THE IDEA THAT THE POOR ARE THE ONLY ONES WHO
|
||
491 TAKE MORE FROM SOCIETY THAN THEY GIVE BACK IS NOT ALWAYS TRUE.
|
||
492 CHUCK
|
||
493 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
|
||
494 P.S. THEY BEHAVE THAT WAY BECAUSE THEY ARE IN A GOOD POSITION TO DO SOME
|
||
495 RIPPING OFF, BETTER THAN AN EMPLOYEE WOULD HAVE. PEOPLE WHO HAVE THEIR
|
||
496 PRINCIPLES TESTED MORE OFTEN FAIL MORE OFTEN. YES, I AM A BUSINESSMAN.
|
||
497 BUT I BELIEVE THAT BUSINESSMEN/WOMEN LEFT ON THEIR OWN TO PAY NO TAXES
|
||
498 AND DO AS THEY WOULD CAN EASILY WRECK A COUNTRY. WITH A FEW EXCEPTIONS
|
||
499 LIKE CONTROL DATA, BUSINESSMEN USUALLY PUT THEIR MONEY WHERE THE BOTTOM
|
||
500 LINE TELLS THEM TO. OFTENTIMES THIS IS OVERSEAS. LATELY, IT IS OFTEN
|
||
501 INTO ROBOTS INTENDED TO DISPLACE WORKERS, NOT TO EMPLOY THEM. THE IDEA
|
||
502 THAT LESS TAXES ON BUSINESS AUTOMATICALLY RESULTS IN MORE JOBS IS REDICULOUS
|
||
503 AS MOST BUSINESSMEN CONCENTRATE QUITE HARD ON HOW TO GET A JOB DONE
|
||
504 WITH THE LEAST AMOUNT SPENT IN WAGES. THIS POLICY RESULTS IN GREATER
|
||
505 EFFICIENCY AT PRODUCING MATERIAL WEALTH, BUT TO NO AVAIL IF THE
|
||
506 PEOPLE ARE AT SAME TIME SHUT OUT FROM CONSUMING THAT SAME WEALTH. TRAINING
|
||
507 AND RETRAINING PROGRAMS ARE UNCERTAINTIES FOR BUSINESSMEN WHO USUALLY
|
||
508 PREFER THE GOVERNMENT TO PRODUCE WORKERS FOR THEM (LIKE AT PCC).
|
||
509 THUS THE GOVERNMENT RESPONSIBILITY FOR EDUCATION IS LIKELY TO EXPAND
|
||
510 AS THE PACE OF CHANGE CONTINUES TO OUTSTRIP OUR ABILITY TO RESPOND TO IT
|
||
511 WITHOUT THE MASSIVE EMPLOYMENT DISPLACEMENTS WE ARE BEGGINNING TO SEE.
|
||
512 EVEN HONG KONG AND SINGAPORE, THOSE SHOWCASES OF CAPITALISM
|
||
513 RECOGNISED THIS AND HAVE PUT MUCH MORE EMPHASIS ON GOOD GOVERNMENT
|
||
514 SUPPORTED JOB TRAINING THAN WE HAVE. WE ARE FIFTY YEARS BEHIND IN THIS
|
||
515 REGARD AND IT WILL TAKE MORE TAXES NOT LESS TO OVERCOME THE GAP. AT THE
|
||
516 SAME TIME OUR ANTIQUATED SYSTEM OF SCHOOLS SUPPORTED BY PROPERTY TAXES
|
||
517 CAN NOT POSSIBLY MESH WITH A MODERN SYSTEM FOR ADULT EDUCATION LIKE THIS-
|
||
518 SUCH A SYSTEM NEEDS TO BE NATIONAL IN SCOPE.
|
||
519 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
|
||
520 *************************************************
|
||
521 Be carefull you don't fall into the old trap of 'we'll just sell
|
||
522 more to the money.' The market of a pvoduct has a very difinately
|
||
523 limited lifespan. Don't believe me? Take a look at an industry
|
||
524 very close to our hearts, the computer industry. A computer that
|
||
525 is introduced has an expected market life of about 2 to 4 years.
|
||
526 (Yew, Apple managed to stretch it to 6 years, but if you pay
|
||
527 attention to the information flow going on, you would know that
|
||
528 they are now experiencing sales problems. The look-alikes and
|
||
529 IBM's are taking over the sales.) A more flambouyant
|
||
530 representation is the Osborne computer. Here we have an exact
|
||
531 application of what you have suggested; Spread the startup cost
|
||
532 over a very long time. Yes, he did get massive sales out of it.
|
||
533 The problem? He waited too long to behring his new machine to the
|
||
534 market in trying to recover the cost of producing the original
|
||
535 computer, and so the market has become flooded with better
|
||
536 machines. The result, Osborne is in desperate financial trouble.
|
||
537 I notice a referance to Comadore selling cheap computers as being
|
||
538 the proper way of selling a product. I guess you don't remember
|
||
539 when the VIC-20 was selling for $300 when they were recovering the
|
||
540 startup costs do you? Now you can get it for well under $100. What
|
||
541 changed? they are still being produced at the same factories. So
|
||
542 it certainly isn't because of that. What it is, is that they found
|
||
543 that they had a larger volume then originally expected, so they
|
||
544 decided to drop the price to amortize the startup over a longer
|
||
545 period of time. Thus it dropped to $200. But you say, it is
|
||
546 selling for under $100 today what happened? Well, what happened is
|
||
547 two things. First the startup cost has payed for it self. Second,
|
||
548 Comador decided to use it as a loss leader. If you don't under
|
||
549 stand the term, it means that you no longer price a product to
|
||
550 make money on it, but rather price it to get volume sales. Ths
|
||
551 usually results in losses in regard to that particular product,
|
||
552 but you gain name recognition and market penitration. Thus the
|
||
553 term 'loss leader'. (You loose money, but you have #1 position in
|
||
554 the market.) This is a form of advertising in case you didn't know
|
||
555 it.
|
||
556 As well as market life, you also have market size to contend with.
|
||
557 That is there are only so many out there who will buy your widget
|
||
558 no matter what price you put it at. Don't beleive me? Tell you
|
||
559 what I'll do, I'll sell you a Telex machine at half my cost,
|
||
560 because I have to get them out of my stock only $750. What, you
|
||
561 don't want one? But its a fabulous buy. OK, how about an Xray
|
||
562 machine for 10 cents on the dollar, only $2000. Well?
|
||
563 Of course there are many other things to consider when setting a
|
||
564 price as well, such as how will you handle warranty claims, after
|
||
565 market service. What about advertising and distribution? How will
|
||
566 you package the item? What support services will you provide if
|
||
567 any? It is hardly a simple 'cost to make it' decision in
|
||
568 determining the price to put on a product.
|
||
569 Another aspect that nobody has touched on is where does the money
|
||
570 come from to create these products? We hear about how certain
|
||
571 portions of sales goes towards R&D, but what about when the
|
||
572 product is ready to go, where does the money come from to build
|
||
573 the factory? There certainly isn't enough from sales of previous
|
||
574 products in most cases, so where does it come from? Well, it is
|
||
575 quit simple, just like when you make a major purchase (like a car
|
||
576 or a home) they borrow it. This means that it has to be payed off
|
||
577 from sales of the product. It also means that there is a time
|
||
578 limit on when it must be repayed. The time can be stretched, but
|
||
579 the longer ustretch it, the more it costs both in real interest
|
||
580 and in payments.
|
||
581 Now we come into an interesting problem, what if no one will lend
|
||
582 you the money? This happens a lot, particularly with small
|
||
583 businesses since they are not as able to prove that they will be
|
||
584 able to repay the loan. So what do you do? You find a backer, or
|
||
585 what is nowadays called a 'venture capitalist'. So what does a
|
||
586 venture capitalist do? (By the way, a venture capitalist is seldom
|
||
587 a single person, but rather a group that brings money together for
|
||
588 the purpose of pvding capital to specific business ventures.) A
|
||
589 venture capitalist provides money to high risk businesses so that
|
||
590 they can produce their product. Since most of these are startup
|
||
591 businesses, the risk involved is extremly high. (Only one out of
|
||
592 every 100 people asking for funding get it.) So what does the
|
||
593 venture capitalist get in return for providing the money? Simple,
|
||
594 a part of the business. And don't expect him to go crawl back into
|
||
595 his hole after providing the money either. Remember that he
|
||
596 expects a return on that money, and a very good return to (normal
|
||
597 expectation is 10 to 1) because of the very high risk involved.
|
||
598 Failures are still high, even with preweeding by the venture
|
||
599 capitalist (around 5 to 1). Because of this the good venture
|
||
600 capitalist becomes a very real part of the business helping it
|
||
601 thru the rough spots, and to put it in a position to make him his
|
||
602 money that he expects. And what does the venture capitalist do
|
||
603 with the money that he makes? It goes right back into the capital
|
||
604 fund for the next business that needs it.
|
||
605 By the way, as a side benifit to all this, for every business that
|
||
606 makes it, there are that many more jobs created. This is hardly a
|
||
607 proposition created to keep money from the people. If anything, it
|
||
608 is just the oposite by providing needed jobs.
|
||
609 **** CISTOP MIKEY (YES, I AM A BUSINESSMAN TOO) **** 21 AUG 83 ****
|
||
610 P.S. CHUCK:
|
||
611 I would disagree with your observation about the bottom hine being
|
||
612 wholy wage depenant. The idea of business is to produce the
|
||
613 product at minimum cost period. Wages are a significant part of
|
||
614 that yes, but there are many other aspects to that bottom line as
|
||
615 well. While I do agree with you that we desperatly need a much
|
||
616 improved jobs retraining program, I also think we should continue
|
||
617 to maintain the advancement of our factories. The steel companies
|
||
618 dragged their feet and look where it got them. There were far more
|
||
619 jobs lost as a result of not maintaining the lastest in factory
|
||
620 processing then there would have been if they had maintained the
|
||
621 lastest in techinlogical processes. I feel it is critical that we
|
||
622 stay abreast of technology if we are to survive in the world today.
|
||
623 I noticed that you didn't mention West Germany where this problem is not
|
||
624 only recognized, but the businesses are activly supporting the jobs
|
||
625 retraining programs. Why? They have to get the workers for their new
|
||
626 factories from somewhere! As far as automation putting people out of work,
|
||
627 yes, unfortunatly it is a result of that, but I might point out that
|
||
628 history has always proven that even more jobs are created in the end
|
||
629 as a result. It is the temporary situation inbetween we must deal with.
|
||
|