623 lines
35 KiB
Plaintext
623 lines
35 KiB
Plaintext
NUMBER OF LINES: 625
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1 If you are in need of help, you need but ask....
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2 ********************** REMOVED: 3 FEB 83 ***************************
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3 Welcome to BWMS (BackWater Message System) Mike Day System operator
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4 ************************************************************
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5 GENERAL DISCLAIMER: BWMS IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY INFORMATION PLACED ON
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6 THIS SYSTEM.
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7 BWMS was created as an electronic bill board. BWMS is a privatly owned
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8 and operated system which is currently open for use by the general public.
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9 No restrictions are placed on the use of the system.
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10 It is intended that the system be normally used for messages and
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11 advertisments by the users. As the system is privatly owned, I retain the
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12 right to remove any and all messages from the system which are offensive
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13 to me. Additionally because of the limited size of the system, it will be
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14 periodically purged of older messages. (only 629 lines of data can be saved)
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15 The saved information will be cycled to drive 'B' while the information on
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16 drive 'B' will be archived, and a fresh disk will be installed in drive 'A'.
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17 To leave a message, type 'ENTER' and use ctrl/C or break to get out
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18 of the enter mode. The message is automaticly stored.
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19 If after entering the message you find you made a mistake,
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20 use the replace command to replace the line.
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21 To exit from the system, type 'OFF' then hang up.
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22 Type 'HELP' to see other commands that are available on the system.
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23 ========================================
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24 *******************************************************
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25 NOTICE.NOTICE.NOTICE.NOTICE.NOTICE.NOTICE.NOTICE
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26 O C
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27 T P. C. S. MEETING LOCATION CHANGE I
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28 I T
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29 C The Portland Computer Society will not O
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30 E be meeting at the Far West Federal any N
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31 . more. .
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32 N E
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33 O We will now be meeting at the P.C.C. C
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34 T Sylvania campus at 12000 SW 49th. I
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35 I The meeting time is 15 Jan 83 at 1:15 PM T
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36 C Doors open at 1:00 PM. Room ST-B14 O
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37 E Everyone is Welcome! N
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38 . .
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39 N P.S. The Feb meeting is the 19th, and the E
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40 O March meeting is the 19th also. C
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41 T I
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42 I The Sylvania campus is just off I-5 T
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43 C about 1/4 mile past the Mcdonalds. O
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44 E N
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45 . .
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46 NOTICE.NOTICE.NOTICE.NOTICE.NOTICE.NOTICE.NOTICE
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47
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48 ****************************************************************
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49 Actually Price is the determinator of which processor
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50 gets used in a particular computer.
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51 1) price of hardware - sometimes cheapest chip is chosen.
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52 2) price of software - maybe manuf. does'nt
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53 want to go to the expense of writing new software.
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54 3) gains from exclusivity - Atari and TI do this:
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55 by making their machines incompatable with almost everything
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56 else, they then control the market for software
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57 and hardware. (at least they think they can)
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58 **************************************************************
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59 I HAVE A MOTORCYCLE FOR SALE OR PARTIAL TRADE FOR
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60 COMPUTER GOODIES. IT'S AN 1980 SUZUKI GS1100 E. GREAT
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61 BIKE, BUT I RARELY RIDE IT. LOW BLUE BOOK IS 2500. I'D
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62 TAKE A DAISYWHEEL PRINTER OR AN EPSON 100 IN PART TRADE.
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63 I ALSO NEED A TRAILER FOR A 23' BOAT OR WHATEVER.
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64
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65 =====================================================
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66 LEAVE ME A MESSAGE HERE OR CALL BILL BABCOOCK xxx xxxx EVENINGS
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67 *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* FOR SALE -*-*-*-:=*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
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68
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69 1967 PONTIAC FIREBIRD CONVERTIBLE.
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70
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71 - POWER STEERING
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72 - POWER BRAKES
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73 - 400 CUBIC INCH, 325 HORESPOWER
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74 - TURBO 400 AUTOMATIC W/CONSOLE SHIFTER
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75 - 5 MONTH OLD RED ACRYLIC ENAMEL PAINT, CAR GARAGED SINCE
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76 PAINTED. BODY VERY STRAIGHT.
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77 - NEW (<200 MI.) RADIALS ON PONTIAC STOCK MAGS.
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78 - NEW HEATER CORE AND CONTROLS
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79 - TOP IS ORIGINAL, IN GOOD CONDITION - NO LEAKS/TEARS.
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80
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81 ASKING $4300.00 - HOWEVER, PRICE IS NEGOTIABLE.
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82 IF INTERESTED, LEAVE A MESSAGE ON 'BIT BUCKET' (xxx-xxxx),
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83 THIS SYSTEM (BWMS) OR CBBS/NW.
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84
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85 *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*- RICK BENSENE 1/09/83 11:13PM -*-*-*-*-*-*-*
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86 have atari 2600
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87 for sale
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88 in v.g cond. asking $90.
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89 if interested
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90 call xxx-xxxx
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91 ask for tom
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92 would like to trade that
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93 atari + cash for VIC-20
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94 compatable printer
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95 or 16K RAM card - TOM
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96 %@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%
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97
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98 off
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99 the sooner you fall behind
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100 - the more time you
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101 have catch up !!
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102 @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
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103 pat m. - give me a call
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104 -t.m. @ S.W.
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105 TOM M.-LEAVE MSG ON THIS SERVICE
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106 PAT M.
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107 EXIT
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108 LIST
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109
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110
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111 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
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112 Question time;
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113 Why is the 16 bit technology better then the 8? Most of the jobs
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114 running on microcomputers seem to be business programs or word processing.
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115 When I am running WordStar, I am storing 7 bit ASCII codes in a 8 bit
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116 cell, if I run WordStar on CP/M-86 I store the same 7 bit code in a 16 bit
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117 cell. This is progress?
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118 Does anybody have a real reason to buy a 16 bit machine? By the way,
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119 I do not class the IBM-PC as a 16 bit machine, it's a 8 bit running 16 bit
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120 software. (in my book a 16 bit machine better have a 16 bit data bus!)
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121 Can anyone think of a reason to buy a 16 bit machine that does not
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122 apply equally to the coming 32 bit technology?
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123
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124 the Phantom Glitch.
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125 1/10/82 20:30
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126 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
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127 Does anyone have a copy of FIG-Forth Ver. 1.4V for the Atari?
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128 Leave a message on any of the BBS's in town for Pann McCuaig.
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129 Thanks.
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130
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131 -=-=-=-=-=-=-
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132 P.G. -- no, not really, for most folks it's part of the me too syndrome.
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133 I feel that current MICRO 16-bit technology is an intermediate step, and
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134 that a discrete jump in User-available computing power awaits 32-bit CPU's,
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135 various dedicated co-processors, and even cheaper and denser memory than is
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136 currently available. Of course, a REAL conceptual gain in software
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137 could obviate all hardware-oriented arguments. --Pann--
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138
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139 ???????????????????
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140 While 16 bit machines offer no clear-cut advantages over current 8
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141 bit machines, there is a reason to buy them: They will become
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142 obsolete somewhat later than 8 bit ones. If you have no overriding
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143 reason one way or another, go with the more recent technology.
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144 I realize that's only a marginal reason, but for a unsophisticated
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145 user, may be the best course.
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146 For nearly all word-processing applications, an 8-bit
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147 system works just as well as a 16 bit machine. That's why I may
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148 just continue using my Z80, skip the 16 bit revolution, and buy
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149 again when 32 bits is king. For someone entering the field just
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150 now, and has no previous investment in hardware, 16 bits may be
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151 as good or even better.
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152 ??????????????????????
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153 If you are waiting for the next better thing, you had better set in for
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154 a long time: there will always be a newer and better just over the hill.
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155 The advantage of a 16 bit machine is, at the machine code level: more
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156 flexible instruction set, bigger address range, higher power arithmetic
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157 and logic functions; at the high level code level, bigger addresses, maybe
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158 speed from the things mentioned earlier; at the user level, well?? maybe..
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159 If 8086 Wordstar wastes 1/2 the 16 bit word to store a letter, it is
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160 because it isn't a 16 bit program, just a converted 8 bit program. This is
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161 why most current 16 bit programs aren't much better: they aren't 16 bit
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162 programs. (Of course, most z-80 programs are really 8080 jobs, too.)
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163 The question of what is an 8 or a 16 bit processor is not so simple. The
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164 data bus to memory is important only if the memory is the slowest thing
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165 in the system. For the 8088 it may or it may not be, and their memory
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166 manager helps make it less important. An 8 bit machine of current vintage
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167 must wait for memory because it can't do anything else. Lots of 16 and
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168 bigger machines use half word memory access, like PDP-11's, and IBM 360's
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169 (of course only in some cases, the bigger ones in each series don't.)
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170 As has been noted, anything that works is 'good enough', but a computer
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171 is ususally considered "general purpose", and therefore will be used for
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172 things it will do well, as well as being pushed to do more; when a bigger
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173 machine is better. However, I have a bigger abacus than you have, so it is
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174 obviously better. 29 rows of beads. It adds faster than I can shuffle em,
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175 but is very intolerant of being jiggled.
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176 I don't reccommend waiting for HAL, he'll be here too soon anyway.
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177 ......................................B.A.D....................
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178 %@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%
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179 PAT M. - GLAD TO SEE THAT U GOT ON... Y A WED NITE MEETING ???
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180 NEED TO GET TOGETHER SOMETIME SOON AND COPY SOFTWARE. TALK JOE INTO A MODEM ??
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181
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182
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183 maybe we shud use BIT BUCKET so can access msg w/o going
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184 thru lots of bs. ??(t.m.)
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185 Anyone interested in observing a PMS system locally, contact me for phone
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186 demo. By appointment only. Dennis Work Phone (xxx-xxxx)
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187
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188 *******************************************************
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189 WHAT IS ALL THIS DISCUSSION ABOUT 8 BIT SOFTWRE RUNNING ON 16 BIT MACHINES
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190 THE ADVANTAGE OF 16 BITS LIES IN THE POTENTIAL TO ADDRESS A VERY
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191 LARGE BUFFER AND THEREFORE RUN SOFTWARE THHAT TALKS TO COMPUTER ILLITERATES
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192 THEY ARE NOT FOR YOU GUYS TO BEGIN WITH! SURE, THE SOFTWARE DOESN'T
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193 EXIST YET. WHAT WAS AVAILABLE FOR THE ALTAIRS AND SWTP 6800.
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194 OBVIOUSLY THAT COMPARISON IS LIMITED, THE EIGHT BIT SOFTWARE MAKES THE 16
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200 COMING TO A THEATER NEAR YOU.....................
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201
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202 D. T. -- THE SHAKY TERRESTRIAL
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203
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204 A YOUNG BOY BEFRIENDS A SKID ROW WINO IN ORDER TO HELP
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205 THE BUM GET BACK TO 3RD AND BURNSIDE. IN THE COURSE OF
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206 GETTING HIM THERE, THE FEDS ARE HOT ON THEIR TAILS SINCE
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207 THE WINO IS AN EX-PRESIDENT........
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208
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209 -------------------------------------------------------------
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210
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211 COMING SOON TO A THEATER NEAR YOU.............
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212
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213 THE REVENGE OF SPOCK
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214
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215 MR. SPOCK AND DARTH VADER GET IT ON IN THE BIGGEST MOST
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216 EXPENSIVE SPACE DUEL EVER. THE SPECIAL EFFECTS FOR THIS ONE
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217 HAVEN'T EVEN BEEN CREATED YET.
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218
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219 --------------------------------------------------------------
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220
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221 NEED A GREAT HEADACHE REMEDY....COME TO THE FOLKS AT
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222 JOHNSON & JOHNSON. WE HAVE A NEW PRODUCT....
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223
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224
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225
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226 IT'S CALLED......
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227
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228 D E A T H D R U G
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229
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230 IF IT DOESN'T GET RID OF YOUR HEADACHE YOU NEED NOT RETURN
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231 FOR YOUR MONEY BACK SINCE YOU WON'T BE AROUND TO COLLECT.
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232
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233 ---------------------
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234
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235 THE ABOVE MESSAGE WERE BROUGHT TO YOU BY THE GREATER PORTLAND
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236 AREA WACCO CLUB....MAKING THE
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237 WORLD BETTER THROUGH STUPID
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238 HUMOR........
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239
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240
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241
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242 END OF LINE
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243 *****************
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244 The fastest computer in the world is now a CDC something-or-other
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245 with a throughput of very close to 800 Megaflops (floating point
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246 operations per second). Wowwwwwwwwwweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!
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247 I want one................
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248 ******************
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249
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250 whats all the excitement about andway, isn't an atari 2600 good enough for
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251 you guys? If not , then I don't know what to tell you.
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252 SLOTH
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253 ************************************************************
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254 Talking about 8-bit micros:
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255 Well, the shovel still isn't obsolete even though
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256 there are now machines to dig holes faster.
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257 ****************************************
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258
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259 The 'Fastest' computer in the world alluded to above is the
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260 CDC Cyber 206. And although they claim that is is the fastest computer
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261 in the world, the 'ole' Cray 1 still can do some things faster. Operations
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262 per second isn't the only way to judge a computer's speed!
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263
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264 _________________________
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265 The Cyber mentioned above is a machine with a parallel architecture,
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266 essentially meaning that a large number of separate operations can
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267 be done simultaneously. Some people object to giving them the title
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268 of 'fastest computer' because they aren't strictly a 'von neumann'
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269 architecture. The Cray is essentially a serial machine, similar to
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270 most microprocessors.
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271 As it turns out, many tasks which require a large amount of
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272 computer time can use parallelism, as in the Cyber. So which is
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273 faster? I'm not really sure.
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274 -------------------------
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275 ARF.
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276
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277 `````````````````@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
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278 HEY GUYS !!! IT S. FAYE. ANY
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279 BODY (GUYS) HAVE A APPLE COMP.
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280 IT BEST MACHINE. OLD WIVES TALE
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281 S ON BURNSIDE USE APPLE. 16 BIT
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282 COMING SOON. BYE MEN.
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283 @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@```````````````
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284 ****************************************PANN: I HAVE fig_FORTH FOR ATARI
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285 BY PAT MULLAKEY (WHO NOW IS A LOCAL RESIDENT).
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286 I ALSO HAVE DOS-COMPATIBLE FORTH. YOU'RE WELCOME TO EITHER.
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287 CALL ME AT xxx-xxxx.
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288 ...CU...PAT
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289
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290 ****************************************
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291
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292 So the CDC is a parallel machine? So what, most computers are, at least
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293 4 or 8 bits parallel. However, I was just perusing my new Motorola catalog
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294 and saw just what I was looking for. No silly 16 bit machine, not even 4;
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295 A 1 (ONE) BIT COMPUTER!! You got it. Now, would somebody tell me what
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296 we can do with a one bit computer?????
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297
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298 Speaking of speed, the latest Byte had an article on benchmark speed,
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299 and the fastest machine they listed was an IBM 3033. The Cray was way
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300 down, but of course the different computers weren't always running the
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301 same kind of code.
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302 Assembly coded programs ran fastest, the various compilers went from almost
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303 as fast to s l o w w w,, and the interpreters like basic and Pascal were
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304 v e r y ss ll oo w wwww . I think the range was something like .003 seconds
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305 to 3000 or so. The program type (assem vs comp vs interp) made more differ
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306 than the machine it ran on. In other words you speed freaks, learn to
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307 program for speed, don't ask for a faster toy.
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308 .....................................B.A.D........1-14-83/20:54 (p.m.)...
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309 **************************
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310 The problem with 'programming for speed' is that this is used as an
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311 excuse for poor programming. Example: Basic programs run faster if
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312 spaces are removed. Result? People write unreadable programs, and
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313 counter deserved criticism with 'I'm just trying to make it run
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314 faster.' Also, in some earlier Basics, frequently used subroutines
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315 if placed in the beginning of the program, ran faster.
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316 This is a poor state of affairs, since a lot of effort is
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317 wasted on such mistakes. It's a lot easier, in the long run, to
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318 make a computer that's twice as fast than to try to rewrite an
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319 already-close-to-optimum program written in most any compiled
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320 language.
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321 I'm not saying to ignore the software. But if it can't
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322 be made readable and logical, accept the slower speed and don't
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323 try to hack a program to death.
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324 *****************************
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325 Micro-80 had an article on proggramming for speed, that changed the time
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326 of a simple demo program from minutes to a few seconds. There is no way
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327 we will see a small computer that is 100 times faster than what we have
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328 now. A program adjusted for speed is not necessarily a bad program, or
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329 an example of bad programming style. They may often have things about
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330 them that is not (by themselves) good, like no spaces between words,
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331 or no remarks, but so what? You can't read the runnable code for a Pascal
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332 or FORTRAN program, either. The remarks can be in a separate file, or
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333 maybe the instruction book where they belong. The difference between good
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334 and bad programs is far greater than the diference between the best and
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335 the worst computer you cas buy. (And this is far greater than the
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336 difference between the CPU chips in them.) The ability to speed up, or
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337 slow down a program by rewriting it, or rearranging it is not a bug, but
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338 a characteristic of any language. A point to be aware of, though, is that
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339 the same tricks do not always work in some other language or dialect.
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340 If removing the spaces doesn't change the speed, using integers, or
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341 for-next loops probably will.
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342 I don't believe the program should contain comments, anyhow. Put these
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343 in the documentation. This is of course something most programmers don't
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344 seem to be able to do: document your code. In fact I sometimes wonder if
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345 most of them can even speak english, let alone write.
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346 But then, I hear a scream that this will make code unreadable, but
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347 again so what? There is no programming language that is easy to read,
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348 because it wasn't meant to be, except for a computer. People speak Human
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349 languages, so describe what you did in a human language, if you can.
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350 Good lick there........................B.A.D.....1-16-83..18:08..........
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351 For once I tend to agree with you-
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352 However some BASICs allow the use of long
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353 names for variables -- these can make reading
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354 the program easier. But as far as that goes
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355 with (a lot of) practice you can read even
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356 disassembled object code.
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357 *****************************************************
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358 B.A.D. you are out to lunch! There is nothing wrong with separate documentation
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359 files, but the code itself MUST be documented if it is to be maintained!
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360 There are many ways to do this, and appropriate use of PASCAL or Forth (yes,
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361 Forth!) can be self-documenting to a great degree. But if the language
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362 (or implementation) doesn't allow for easy self documenting code, then you
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363 MUST add comments to the extent necessary that a competent programmer in
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364 the language/system you are using can figure out what's going on -- and you
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365 must use the "community standard" definition of competent, not some idealized
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366 definition you might have.
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367 As to the problem with spaceless BASIC programs with cryptic variable names,
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368 the appropriate way to deal with this was implied in your message: To wit,
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369 write the original code using spaces (TABs even!) and long, meaningful
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370 variable names, and include adequate comments. Then run this program source
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371 through a utility which truncates variable names, and throws out comments
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372 and spaces. Give yourself the best of both worlds.
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373 ---------------------------------------- Pann 1/16/83 21:30 ------------
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374
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375
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376
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377
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378 +++{
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379 **************************************
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380 FOR SALE---CENTRONICS PRINTER---
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381
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382 MODEL 737-1 PARALLEL INPUT
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383
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384 80 COL/132 COL/PROPORTIONAL
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385
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386 LIKE NEW CONDITION W/MANUALS
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387
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388 PAID $800 IN 1981
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389
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390 WILL SELL FOR $350.00
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391
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392 CONTACT: GLENN AT
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393 xxx-xxxx EXT. xx DAYS
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394 xxx-xxxx EVES. AFTER 6:00 PM
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395
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396 **************************************
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397 I would have to disagree with you that small computers will not see any
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398 great improvement in speed. Accually they are currently horibly slow
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399 The reason for this is that they use the next to slowest type of technology
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400 to build them (NMOS). Just going to TTL could boost the speed factor by
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401 5 to 10, and going to ECL can boost it to that 50 to 100 mark. Of course
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402 we haven't even touched Johsephine junctions (and please don't!), accually
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403 I have my doubts as to the viability of this particular technology as it is
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404 rather difficult to work with and expensive. Other technolgies in the wings
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405 could easily come close to doing the same thing without all that cyrogenics!
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406 ECL and GASP both aproach this speed. Another aproach is to build a base
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407 machine that is more efficeint. Going to a wider buss and reducing the state
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408 cycles that the machine goes through for each instruction can easily boost
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409 the speed by a factor of 10. Of course with all this super speed we do
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410 have a problem, and that is feeding our poor hungery beast fast enough.
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411 some of this can be handled with newer and faster memories, and lookahead
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412 addressing, but I think that you will find that the memory access and I/O
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413 access will always be the limiting factor in computers. After all, you got
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414 to get the data to begin with in order to crunch it. and a very large amount
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415 of computer work these days is just moveing data from one place to another
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416 with a little massaging in the middle.
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417 I do however agree with you that a little improvement in programing speed
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418 can do wounders too, but I do at times wonder what all the fuss is about.
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419 generally I write in BASIC because it is easy not because it is fast. If
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420 I need fast I run the program thru a complier and to heck with the spaces!
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421 Or if I realy need fast I convert it to assembler which sometimes improves
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422 the speed (But not always) which is not that difficult once you have the
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423 basic structures layed down. Usally the speed is picked up because the
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424 code is written differently in assembler as you have full control of
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425 the machine there are many things you can do that can't be done in basic
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426 because it doesn't know how to allow them (thus the often used USR fuction
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427 is born.)
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428 Although writting two sets of code sounds nice on the surface, I find it
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429 extremly hard to believe that anyone would accualy do it. There usualy is
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430 barely enough reason to write the original code to begin with! And expecting
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431 a hobiest to do it is about as usfull as praying for snow in the Sahara.
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432 *** THE EVER RANTING CISTOP MIKEY *** 17 JAN 83 ************************
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433 IT WOULD APPEAR THAT 'CISTOP MIKEY' REEKS OF BOVINE FECAL MATTER !!!
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434 IF YOU PERSIST IN FLASHING BUZZWORDS AT LEAST USE THEM IN THE
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435 PROPER CONTEXT. ALSO A DICTIONARY COULD GREATLY IMPROVE YOUR SPELLING.
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436
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437 *****POOF!*****
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438 MESSAGE
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439
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440 MESSAGE
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441
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442 AN EXPERIENCED VIDEO TECHNICIAN IS NEEDED BY THE CITY OF PORTLAND...
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443 MESSAGD
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444 TEE, SEE MSG ON BIT BUCKET, LOST UR PHONE NO. PLSE CALL BACK OR LEAVE IT ON
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445 BIT BUCKET - TOM xxx-xxxx
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446 -----------------------------------
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447 Why are personal computers slow: Part 1.
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448 A bit (pardon the pun) of History. Floppy disks weren't
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449 invented as an on-line storage medium. IBM made them as a
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450 small, easily transported medium of data exchange, especially where
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451 an entire operating system for a big machine was to be reloaded
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452 by a field service person. Another application was key-to-disk, a
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453 replacement for keypunching. The floppies weren't ever supposed
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454 to be used as direct disk devices. Unfortunately (or fortunately,
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455 depending on whether you think the glass is half full or empty)
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456 we're relatively stuck with them.
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457 Question: Does the average person NEED processing capability
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458 significantly more powerful than the current personal computer???
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459 Let's hear your ideas on the subject.
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460 ----------------------------------------
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461 %@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@
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462 HEY SYSOPR !!!! HOW CAN I GET TO BOTTOM 25 LINES W/_O READING ALL THE DIATRIBE
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463 EVERY TIME ?? BOTTOM COMMAND DOESNT
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464 SEEM TO DO WHAT I WANT....
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465 MIKE, YOU ARE RIGHT: WE CAN GET FASTER MACHINES, BUT YOU HAVE
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466 JUST EDSCRIBED THE REASON LARGER MINIS AN MAINFRAMES ARE FASTER,
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467 AND ALSO WHY THE COST $100,000 AND UP, AND WHY MICROS ARE $100
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468 AND UP (ALSO DOWN) S TO THE BIT? ABOUT FLOPPIES, NEITHER
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469 WAS THE MICRO INVENTED AS A COMPUTER, BUT AS LOGIC RELPLACEMENT
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470 FOR A CALCULATOR OR TRMINAL. E THANKFUL FOR THINGS INVENTED
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471 FOR OTHER THINGS: THAT' ALL WE'VE GOT. ND THERY ARE BOTH
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472 BETTER THAN WHAT THEY REPLACED. UNTIL TOMMORROW, AT LEAST.
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473 ............................B.A.D.....1-19-83...20:36
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474
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475 GEEZ! Come on guys! You can type better than that. Mr. Day, your diatribe
|
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476 would be much more effective if you would read it after typing it.
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477 And Mr. D., is your machine dropping charactors again? An error every once
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478 in a while is OK, but the rate has been increasing rapidly of late.
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479 Please excuse the typos,
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480 the Phantom Glitch.
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481 (((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((01/19/83))))))))))))))))))
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482 No, the average person certainly doesn't need more processing power than
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483 is currently available from various "personal computers." But then again,
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484 so what?
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485 ................................................. pann 1/19/83 21:20.........
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|
486
|
|
487 THIS HAS CERTAINLY BEEN INTERESTING. YES, MORE DICTIONARIES, NOT MORE SPEED
|
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488 WILL SERVE THE PERSONAL COMPUTER USER MOST EFFECTIVELY.
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|
489 EPS/MMP 1/19/83 2207
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490 =======================
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491 About a year ago I read an article about direct digital transfer
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492 through the phone lines. In effect, the phone system will bypass the
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493 A/D step, and the subsequent D/A step, and act like a 56K baud modem.
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494 Whaddaya think, how's this gonna change the world. Will modem
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495 manufacturers go the way of the buggywhip manufacturers?
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496 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::
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|
497 READ WHAT I WRITE?!!! HEVEN FORBID THAT SUCH A THING WOULD COME TO PASS!!
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498 WHY I MIGHT FIND OUT WHAT I WAS TRYING TO SAY AND I JUST NEVER COULD
|
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499 LIVE WITH THAT!! AS FOR THE DICTIONARY, WELL, MAYBE ONE OF THESE DAYS
|
|
500 I'LL INVEST IN ONE, BUT I REALLY DON'T THINK IT WILL HELP SINCE I CAN'T
|
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501 READ. AND IT IS OBVIOUS FROM MY RAVINGS THAT I CAN'T WRITE. THE REST, WELL..
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|
502 **** THE NON-FLAMBOYANT CISTOP MIKEY *** 19 JAN 83 *****************
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|
503 P.S. TRY TO FIND SAHARA IN THE DICTIONARY (WOULD YOU BELIEVE IT IS NOT
|
|
504 IN THE WEBSTERS UNABRIDGED!)
|
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505 ...................................................
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506 If you want to read the bottom 25 lines, just type 'BOTTOM', then 'UP 25',
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507 and 'PR 25'. Nothing to it.
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508 **************************************************************************
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|
509 With regard to "direct digital transfer": the terminology is somewhat
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|
510 misleading. Ma Bell and other suppliers have, of course been digitizing
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511 your voice (and modem tones) for many years now when going between central
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512 offices. That doesn't mean that there isn't a significant amount of
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513 massaging of the "digital" information prior to placing it on a twisted
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514 pair. This is necessary to allow for the attenuation and phase charact-
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|
515 eristic of the medium and to prevent undesirable crosstalk.
|
|
516 The point is, you're not going to get rid of the modem (or some other
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|
517 piece of conversion hardware) because it is still an analog world out
|
|
518 there, despite all the flap about the information age megatrend. There
|
|
519 are any number of high speed limited distance modems available, but
|
|
520 all of them that I've seen require a DC circuit between the modems,
|
|
521 a commodity you will be increasingly hard pressed to find these days,
|
|
522 let alone in the future (unless you will be willing to pay dearly!!)
|
|
523 {}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{} Analog Alan {}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}
|
|
524 In regard to some of the above comments:
|
|
525 1. At work we have several pieces of automated equipment worth
|
|
526 several tens of thousands of dollars. They do a number of
|
|
527 testing and sorting steps in a matter of seconds that would
|
|
528 take someone with regular measuring gear several MINUTES to do.
|
|
529 They operate fast enough that the operations can be considered
|
|
530 simultaneous. What miracle of modern technology controls these
|
|
531 monsters? Why, its a "lowly" 4004! Like the man said, it's not
|
|
532 obselete, it has fewer uses.
|
|
533 2. Enough of arguing speed, on micros we haven't reached the
|
|
534 "ultimate" limit (speed of light lag) yet, but a simple
|
|
535 calculation shows that it requires about 2/3 of a nanosecond
|
|
536 for a signal to travel (1-way) a 20 cm path. Since the signals
|
|
537 are actually travelling at less than light-speed (I'm NOT
|
|
538 kidding!), sometimes much less, there is an inherent limit
|
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539 in the speed of MOST systems that is much closer than some
|
|
540 of you think! I get a factor of about 1 Ghz as a "maximum"
|
|
541 clock speed. I doubt that S-100 and similar systems can get
|
|
542 that high. Also as the clock speed goes up circuit design is
|
|
543 going to get WEIRD! Ask any radio tech about what kind of weird-
|
|
544 ness occurs above 100 Mhz!
|
|
545 I'm sure there are some errors in specific details of the
|
|
546 above, but I'm just as sure that the general principles hold.
|
|
547 ......................................................................
|
|
548 So what about speed! Do it right the first time and then speed doesn't
|
|
549 matter....enter the dictionary. Besides, even if it took twice as long,
|
|
550 I bet that you'd still get a kick out of it! You call this work!
|
|
551 EPS 1/20/83 20:00
|
|
552
|
|
553 ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
|
|
554 YES INDEEDY THE PRINCIPLES TO HOLD, IT DOES NOT MEAN THAT A COMPUTER CAN
|
|
555 NOT OPERATE FASTER THEN 1GHZ ONLY THAT IT CAN'T USE EXISTING TECHNICS TO
|
|
556 DO IT. THERE HAS BEEN SOME FOOLING AROUND WITH A OPTICAL COMPUTER WHICH
|
|
557 OF COURSE BY ITS NATURE OPERATES AT LIGHT SPEED, BUT I EXPECT THAT OTHER
|
|
558 THEN SOME VERY SPECIAL APPLICATIONS THIS WILL NOT SEE MUCH USE IN COMPUTERS
|
|
559 AS WE KNOW AND LOVE THEM. I DON'T EXPECT TO SEE COMMON COMPUTERS RUNNING
|
|
560 MUCH ABOVE 20-50 MHZ BECAUSE OF THE PROBLEMS WITH CONTROLING SIGNALS AT
|
|
561 THOSE SPEEDS. BUT THERE WILL DEFINATLY BE COMPUTERS RUNNING FASTER THEN
|
|
562 100MHZ THESE WILL BE THE CRAYS AND CYBERS OF THE FUTURE. WHAT YOU WILL
|
|
563 SEE MORE OF IN THE FUTURE AS FAR AS LOW LIFE COMPUTERS IS A WHOLE LOT
|
|
564 MORE PARALLEL COMPUTING AND DISTRIBUTED COMPUTING. IT IS INTERESTING
|
|
565 THAT EVERYONE KEEPS SEEING THE FUTURE WITH A GREAT BIG CENTRAL COMPUTER.
|
|
566 YET THIS DEFEATS ITS SELF. THE PROBLEM HERE IS THAT IF THE BIG HONKER
|
|
567 GOES DOWN THE WHOLE SYSTEM DIES. WHAT IS REALLY NEEDED IS LOTS OF LITTLE
|
|
568 SYSTEMS THAT SHARE THEIR DATA WITH EACH OTHER AND SPECIALIZED CENTRAL
|
|
569 UNITS THAT PERFORM CERTAIN JOBS WITH ALTERNATES IN CASE OF FAILURE.
|
|
570 THIS IS THE WAY LIFE WORKS, AND IT IS THE WAY OUR COMPUTER SYSTEMS
|
|
571 WILL HAVE TO WORK IF THEY ARE TO SURVIVE.
|
|
572 The speed of light is important because the address needs to go out, and then
|
|
573 the data returns, and this is the limit in addressing memory; however, this
|
|
574 is not the final limit. Oneway processors, called pipelined architecture, is
|
|
575 not unusual in systems designed for speed, the program and data enter at one
|
|
576 end, the prodessor massages them, and spits them out the other end. All
|
|
577 current micro's (and most mainframes) only do one thing at a time, so the
|
|
578 delay in any stage (usually memory) slows them down. If you call for a piece
|
|
579 of data, and use it immediately you have to wait until it is available, but
|
|
580 if you can call for it and then do something else until it becomes available,
|
|
581 you can run faster than memory. As yet, this is only used for very slow
|
|
582 stuff like discs, but we aren't designing much for speed yet. A state
|
|
583 machine processor like the 8080 could be implemented so each clock cycle
|
|
584 a new instruction is read from memory, and the prior one is moved to the next
|
|
585 layer in the processor. The time to execute an instruction does not change,
|
|
586 but the average time does, because several are executing at the same time.
|
|
587 Some early computers did this, because they were inherently so slow, such
|
|
588 as the Bell labs #1 ESS that connected you with BWMS. It needs all the
|
|
589 funny speedups because it's memory access time is 5 or 6 microseconds.
|
|
590 With 3 instructions running at the same time, though it handles about 30k
|
|
591 time share terminals (ie telephones). Personal computers of the 16 bit sort
|
|
592 are about as powerful at arithmetic, but would trip over eth special jobs
|
|
593 involved, like scanning all those lines to see who needs dial tone.
|
|
594 As to errors, I can't type, and when I use that !@#$%^ silent 700 through
|
|
595 the computer at work to access, things get lost. Unlike the sysop, I can
|
|
596 read, but don't like to (never my own).
|
|
597 W e do need more computer power in home computers, but not speed, mostly
|
|
598 more memory.
|
|
599 ..................................B.A.D............21:40/jan 21 83............
|
|
600 AMEN *** CISTOP MIKEY *** 22 JAN 83 ***********
|
|
601 It's funny that the entire tone of the conversation on here changes so
|
|
602 drastically from one disk to the next. It must be associated with the
|
|
603 orientation of the magnetic domains on the disk when it is made.
|
|
604 |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
|
605 I've always wondered about those pipelined machines...if they have several
|
|
606 instructions simultaneously executing, what happens when one of them is a
|
|
607 conditional branch??? Do they just throw out the following steps and
|
|
608 hiccup for a while?
|
|
609 ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
|
610 YES, THE PIPELINED PROCESSORS ARE AT A DISADVANTAGE ON CONDITIONAL
|
|
611 JUMPS;THEY USUALLY DO JUST THROW AWAY THE NEST INSTRUCTIONS, HOWEVER,
|
|
612 ONLY THE INSTRUCTIONS IN THE INPUT QUEUE ARE DISCARDED, AS THE JUMP IS
|
|
613 TESTED EARLY. JUMPS TAKE LONGER THAN SAY REGISTER SWAPS, SO MAY USE MORE
|
|
614 TIME AND SEEM LIKE SEVERAL INSTRUCTIONS. E.G. 8080 4 CLOCKS VS 12 TO 17.
|
|
615 THE FULL DIGITAL ACCESS TO THE PHONE LINES EXISTS, DIRECT FROM
|
|
616 THE SPECIAL ADAPTER ON THE SUB('S PREMESSES. IT IS CALLED (FROM
|
|
617 MA BELL) DIGITAL DATA SYSTEM, OR DDS,; UNFORTUNATELY THE FCC AND
|
|
618 PUC WILL NOT ALLOW BELL (YET) TO OFFER THIS AS A SWITCHED SERVICE,
|
|
619 AND IT IS AVAILABLE ONLY POINT TO POINT. SOME PBX MAKERS LIKE
|
|
620 NORTH ELECTRC AND ROHM DIGITIZE THE VOICE AT THE PHONE, AND
|
|
621 SEND BINARY DATA OVER THE LINE: ANY DIGITAL DEVICE THAT CAN MATCH
|
|
622 THEIR DATA FORMAT CAN ALSO WORK AS PURE DATA. THE PRIMARY REASON
|
|
623 IT IS NOT TO BE SEEN ELSEWHERE IS INERTIA..
|
|
624 ......................................B.A.D................
|
|
625
|
|
|
|
|