textfiles/messages/ALTERREALITY/ar22.txt

From: YNGLING             
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Arrghhh        
Date & Time: 05/13/90 22:09:20
Message Number  4551

Turtle,
   I never thought Id say this, but, this latest message chain with
Mr/Miss C.C.A. re: religion has made me long for those wonderful
discussions about abortion we were having a while back.
   Can anyone, other than Chip, discuss the pro-Christianity side
without falling back on the pablum-dogma crap they were spoon-fed as
children in Sunday school?  
                     The Yngling (who has apparently been serving
                     Satan for many moons without being aware of it -
                     damn, I hate it when that happens!)
===========

From: DONTHEN             
To: DELPHI              
Subject: godtalk        
Date & Time: 05/13/90 23:07:02
Message Number  4552

"Desert nomads" are hunter/gatherers and tribal.  Agriculture comes 
later up the "chain" of social development than H-G societies do;
saying "goddess times were gathers and argricultural and tribal" is a
little confusing.
    Nevertheless, I haven't read the book you refer to but if the author
is making the black/white distinction you paint, she's being awfully
simplistic.  Christianity came from an area that was /never/ peaceful;
there is no evidence I am aware of that the Middle East ever supported
the suspiciously utopic matriarchal society a lot of feminist
theologians believe existed before (patriarchal) Judaism moved in.  Your
(or her) thesis works when you talk of Christianity coming into the
areas where Wicca was the predominant religion; Wicca is certainly a lot
less violent than Christianity is, and could be considered matriarchal
in a lot of ways.
   However, anthropologist Margaret Murray's THE GOD OF THE WITCHES
makes the assertion--with a fair amount of stuff backing her up--that
the first known religion, which evolved into Wicca, was the Cult of the
Horned God.  The goddess aspect of the religion was added later, and
didn't rise to ascendency over (in many varients eliminate) the male
aspect until after Christianity--not Judiasm--began to threaten it.
   It would seem that if you are going to anthropomorphize your deities
at all, you should have both a male and a female.  If patriarchal
systems can lead to skewed worldviews, and there's a lot of evidence to
support that claim, that absolutely does /not/ mean that matriarchal
systems /cannot/.
===========

From: DONTHEN             
To: C.C.A.              
Subject: Real dips      
Date & Time: 05/13/90 23:21:23
Message Number  4553

You, sir, are working very hard at proving yourself a twit.  You haven't
read half of the messages to you, including some you really SHOULD read
to you from Chip P. Unicorn, but at least you're responding to enough of
them to tell us all that we're going to burn in hell because we don't
believe the same way you do.  Hell yourself, man, no matter what you
believe I can guarantee 80% of the other Christians in the world would
find things to disagree with you on.  And do you really think a God of
Love deserving of the name would condemn everybody who didn't believe
just the way your church's pastor taught the Bible to eternal
damnation, much less all the people in the world who will live their
entire lives--quite happily--without ever having heard of Christ?
We can forgive some of your brashness because of your age, but there are
people on	 this board no older than you who are already using their
brains, proving it is indeed possible.  Why don't you join them?
Honestly, sir, get a life.
===========

From: DONTHEN             
To: SAURON              
Subject: They hate...   
Date & Time: 05/13/90 23:27:17
Message Number  4554

> How many sins have the Polynesians committed?
 
Five hundred and fourteen.
===========

From: BLACK MAGIC         
To: DONTHEN             
Subject: ::sigh::       
Date & Time: 05/13/90 23:49:32
Message Number  4556

Supposed to be addressed to DM2....Qmodem isn't half bad, either....if 
you'd like a copy....
         The Lady
===========

From: CORWYN OF AMBER     
To: TURTLE              
Subject: New new subject
Date & Time: 05/14/90 01:40:32
Message Number  4557

True, but 90% of the poeple who I know that have a terminal program,
(or terminal) that has cursor positioning codes, are VT100 compatible.
I /still/ want to know what uses avatar! I'm considering implementing it
on my bbs, and would really like to know what it's native to, so I can 
find out a little more about it. I could do some of it just from Telix's
AVATAR.KEY file, but I'd really like to have a tech document on it.
 
                         - Corwyn
===========

From: CORWYN OF AMBER     
To: BLACK MAGIC         
Subject: ::sigh::       
Date & Time: 05/14/90 01:54:31
Message Number  4558

Do yourself a favor, trash Qmodem, get Telix. Ask Chip, ask Raven, 
Qmodem bites rocks. I'd say it comes close to Telemate for disgusting
mis-management of ram. Telemate takes more RAM, (It like about 1 Meg of
expanded, in /addtion/ to all your conventional, but at least it does
stuff neither Telix or Qmodem do. Qmodem takes twice the ram, and has
half the features of telix. -- OK. so I lied Qmodem has a full color 
scroll back buffer, wow! Why do I get so upset about this, I don't know,
I guess some of Turtle rabid hatred of bloated code has rubbed off on me
I don't hate all MS-DOS programs (or even most of them) but when one is
amazingly inefficient, it bothers me. Telix's script language is also a
lot better, (It's basically a modified "C") and I can give you a log-on
script for this BBS, and one that will work for BBSX (suncoast city) 
Remote Access (TCB & others) QuickBBS (Mine & others) and Opus.. 
(You've /got/ to know what Opus is) you can get the newest version-3.12
from my board..  
 
                         - Corwyn
===========

From: ANGEL               
To: RUFUS               
Subject: New crusade    
Date & Time: 05/14/90 02:34:16
Message Number  4559

> Peopl've told me I have cute rear parts...
 
The front parts ain't too shabby as well.
===========

From: ANGEL               
To: SAURON              
Subject: dirt, she says?
Date & Time: 05/14/90 02:38:34
Message Number  4560

No thanks, I already had kinky plans for the weekend.  Assisted at my
parents' garage sale, can't get much kinkier than that.  They got rid
of tons of stuff, made nice money, and the only two things I brought
to sell got stolen.  Now, stealing from a garage sale is lower then
low.  That's below being pond scum.  (Espcially since I really wasn't
sure I wanted to sell my electronic thesaurus, but would have gladly
parted with it for the HIGH price I was asking ... by no means did I
wish to give it away!  He also lifted a still-factory-sealed dictionary
for word-processing.  I see why computer hackers get a bad rep!)
That's my kvetching for the day.  Hope your weekend was happier.
===========

From: ANGEL               
To: JONBOY              
Subject: validation     
Date & Time: 05/14/90 02:52:54
Message Number  4561

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make when you claim the
Bible has sustained a 2000 year test.  One, most verifications of
the historical accuracy of the Bible deal with the Old Testament,
which is much older than 2000 years.  Second, there is substantial
verification for the Illiad and the Oddysey, giving strong indication
that the events chronicled is historically accurate.  Does this mean
that the many gods described in the literature existed as well?  You
would say, of course not, for many valid reasons ... the same reasons
that non-Christians would give for not accepting YOUR beliefs.  But
all this misses the point.  As you said in your post, the Bible is
"literature".  It was never intended to be a book of science, or
history, or math, or astronomy, etc.  It is a book of faith, and
must be accepted on that level.  Any arguements for or against the
Bible on the basis of anything but faith are doomed to fail. 
===========

From: ANGEL               
To: C.C.A.              
Subject: Real dips      
Date & Time: 05/14/90 03:10:57
Message Number  4562

> Without FAITH noone could live in the whreched world.
 
Nice theory, but severly flawed.  As you can tell from reading the
posts on this board, apparently there are many who live without your
capitalized FAITH and do it quite nicely.  You have any other false
platitudes?
===========

From: ANGEL               
To: ACAPULCO            
Subject: What I'm doing.
Date & Time: 05/14/90 03:18:36
Message Number  4563

Ooh, ooh, yes!  Nice concept about the verifications not standing up
through time ... there's a neat short story in there.
===========

From: DM2                 
To: BLACK MAGIC         
Subject: QModem         
Date & Time: 05/14/90 03:50:47
Message Number  4564

I'll keep that in mind... :)  I've *finally* gotten the xmodem working 
to my satisfaction.  Now... what to upload, what to upload?
       -----DM2
===========

From: DM2                 
To: CORWYN OF AMBER     
Subject: ::sigh::       
Date & Time: 05/14/90 03:52:54
Message Number  4565

Ya know, I'm eventually gonna figure out what y'all are talking about...
;)
===========

From: BLACK MAGIC         
To: CHIP P. UNICORN     
Subject: Xnty...        
Date & Time: 05/14/90 16:46:39
Message Number  4567

Funny, Religion is frustrating in that way...You are really believing in
something that cannot be totally justified.  I don't think even MY Rabbi
could argue that one....no religion can be totally justified.  I 
/personally/ have never SEEN G-d, or heard G-d, but still I am asked to 
believe in G-d.  Why?  How?  I find that discussion on Religion is 
very interesting and also very confusing.  No two people believe exactly
the same thing without questioning it any point in their lives, can you 
argue that?  I don't think anyone could.  I think the train of 
discussion on the board is interesting, but still it seems 'attacking' 
in a sense.  Why not just ask questions and hope, or get, replies?  
Certain subjects are touchy....Religion for one.  I only hate talking 
about them when people impose their views on me...or rather, when they 
preach at me and tell me what to believe.  I have a mind, one that some 
say G-d gave me, so why not let me use it?
           The Lady
===========

From: BLACK MAGIC         
To: TURTLE              
Subject: IBMs           
Date & Time: 05/14/90 16:57:01
Message Number  4568

Nice attitude!  I always did love that about you! :>  When did you get
an IBM, anyway?  And why?  And.....
        -The Lady
===========

From: BLACK MAGIC         
To: CORWYN OF AMBER     
Subject: ::sigh::       
Date & Time: 05/14/90 17:02:24
Message Number  4569

Thanks, love!  Sheesh!  I own Telex, I just don't use it...Qmodem does
what I need....and I know what OPUS is, too. :)  I may be female, but 
that doesn't make me lacking in knowledge....
            The Happy Lady
===========

From: BLACK MAGIC         
To: DM2                 
Subject: QModem         
Date & Time: 05/14/90 17:05:17
Message Number  4570

:)  Well, if you'd like, I'm sure someone could compile a list.....
           :>
             The Lady In Black
===========

From: BLACK MAGIC         
To: CHIP P. UNICORN     
Subject: God...         
Date & Time: 05/14/90 17:08:53
Message Number  4571

You have a right to your opinion...what I meant was that it is a 
person's own choice...no one should decide for them.  Yes?
         The Lady
===========

From: BLACK MAGIC         
To: YNGLING             
Subject: :) the sequel  
Date & Time: 05/14/90 17:10:22
Message Number  4572

A Box Full Of Hell was what I, too was referring to!   :)  So, where are
you now?
       The Lady
===========

From: DONTHEN             
To: CORWYN OF AMBER     
Subject: New new subject
Date & Time: 05/14/90 17:49:28
Message Number  4573

Avatar is another ANSI variant; as far as anyone's been able to
determine, there's no effective difference between them.  I've used Opus
1.1x BBS's (the only BBS software I've seen that does Avatar) with
terminals in ANSI mode and lost absolutely nothing.  It'd be nice if you
could find the VT52 superset that Atari ST's use--or for that matter,
just normal VT52 codes to begin with.  No color, but they get all the
basics (cursor movement, direct positioning, etc.) down with a few of
the weirdos like delete/insert line, etc. and do most of them in half
the number of bytes the VT100/ANSI counterparts are.  Most terminal
programs that do any emulation know VT52; for people calling at 2400 bps
or below, it'd significantly speed up terminal I/O if they could use it
with things like full-screen editors, etc.  (And you could still use it
with IBM graphics, I suppose, since they're not part of ANSI anyway,
despite what the people who write Opus think.  Assuming the people who
write Opus think ANYTHING....)
===========

From: ACAPULCO            
To: ANGEL               
Subject: What I'm doing.
Date & Time: 05/14/90 20:17:18
Message Number  4575

There is, isn't there. Unfortunately, I'm already working on enough
writing these days, so I can't write that one just now. Perhaps, if
you do, you'll give me credit, or at least a dedication, for the
inspiration.
 
{Acapulco}
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: YNGLING             
Subject: Arrghhh        
Date & Time: 05/14/90 20:53:41
Message Number  4578

Re: C.C.A--Damn, I know what you mean. Religious debates can be fun,
but not when your opponent gets cut-rate discounts from mind readers.
*Sigh* I never did get the "Cannon Fodder for Christ (tm)" thing.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: ANGEL               
Subject: dirt, she says?
Date & Time: 05/14/90 21:00:39
Message Number  4579

>He also lifted a still-factory-sealed dictionery for word-processing.
>I see why computer hackers get a bad rep!
 
Bite your tongue /hard/, ma'am. I am a hacker. The man who dynamically
reallocated your dictionery program was a thief. The two are not the
same. (To assist you in making the distinction: Hackers are the
ones who say things like "You know, I really hate when I have to
manually move the bootstrap loader for my PDP from low core to high
core" and thieves say things like "Hey man, wanna buy a cheap stereo?")
                     --A hacker Turtle (and damn proud of it!)
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: BLACK MAGIC         
Subject: IBMs           
Date & Time: 05/14/90 21:06:05
Message Number  4580

>When did you get an IBM, anyway? And why?
 
Umm...right after that headline "HELL FREEZES OVER" appeared in the
New York Times, because an Iranian terrorist told me he'd shoot me
if I didn't?
===========

From: CHIP P. UNICORN     
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Nusubject (tm) 
Date & Time: 05/14/90 21:13:24
Message Number  4581

Dear Turtle,
   Menus are fantastic for new people to the computer community to
learn new software. They're fantastic in restaurants, too -- imagine
having to go through a command parser to order your Big Mac!
               Chip P. Unicorn
===========

From: CHIP P. UNICORN     
To: DELPHI              
Subject: godtalk        
Date & Time: 05/14/90 21:18:31
Message Number  4582

Dear Delphi,
   Being in the middle of exams right now (and having been kidnapped
by Donthen over to aLTER rEALITY cENTRAL), I haven't had a chance
to look at Mary Daly's idea of active Be-ing.
   Is life merely an active process? I'd say that -- clarifying my
definition a bit -- the thing that distinguishes life from non-life is
purpose. All life has a purpose for their actions. Rocks may move,
but they have no reason to do so,.
   I sincerely doubt goddess religions prevented all violence from
mankind, or (even if that was true) that the only reason for violence
to begin was the advent of a male-dominated religion. To repeat what
I said to Sauron, I find mere religion to be a simplistic reason for
the world's problems. Quite possibly, economics might have been another
reason: civilized (i.e. people living in cities in the Mesopotamian
valley) people had a lot more food, better clothing, and (possibly)
alcohol. The barbarians might have been trying to better themselves
by taking from others.
   What are your views about ecology?
                Chip P. Unicorn
===========

From: CHIP P. UNICORN     
To: ACAPULCO            
Subject: Real solutions 
Date & Time: 05/14/90 21:28:00
Message Number  4583

Uhhh.... I think you're missing the point. Was mankind created before
or after plants?
             C.P.U.
===========

From: CHIP P. UNICORN     
To: BEATLE              
Subject: Real dips      
Date & Time: 05/14/90 21:31:01
Message Number  4584

>As a matter of fact, I have an extreme "good" complex.
     
Psychoanalysis can cure you of that.
         C.P.U.
===========

From: CHIP P. UNICORN     
To: SAURON              
Subject: What I'm doing.
Date & Time: 05/14/90 21:33:33
Message Number  4585

Dear Sauron,
   I do not object to your objection. I object only to your saying
what I can or cannot write on a public board (not your own.)
   I don't feel I'm practicing evangelism surreptisiously... in fact,
my own religious views are somewhat uncertain at the moment. I still
believe the Bible as God's word -- but not in the same way that I
used to. And I'm looking for as many viewpoints as possible to help
me make up my mind.
   I apologize for using bombastic language before.
             C.P.U.
===========

From: CHIP P. UNICORN     
To: SAURON              
Subject: They hate...   
Date & Time: 05/14/90 21:37:38
Message Number  4586

>How many sins have the Polynesians committed?
     
   In all honesty, I don't know. I haven't met, interviewed, and seen
every waking moment of the lives of every Polynesian that has ever
existed -- have you?
     
   Also, what point are you trying to make?
             C.P.U.
===========

From: CHIP P. UNICORN     
To: JONBOY              
Subject: godtalk        
Date & Time: 05/14/90 21:40:42
Message Number  4587

In your message you said that Christianity and Islam are the same
God. Really? How often do you read the Qu'ran?
             C.P.U.
===========

From: CHIP P. UNICORN     
To: JONBOY              
Subject: godtalk        
Date & Time: 05/14/90 21:41:50
Message Number  4588

If it weren't for your headache, I'd ask you to explain your idea a
bit more... How does participating in an ecosphere mean that something
necessarily "lives"? Does the fact that a ray of starlight might 
interact with an ecosystem necessarily make it alive?
             C.P.U.
===========

From: CHIP P. UNICORN     
To: DELPHI              
Subject: godtalk        
Date & Time: 05/14/90 21:51:04
Message Number  4589

>Only when we refuse to accept patriarchal concepts as truth or the
>only reality...
       
   Ummmm... Delphi, here's another place where we completely disagree.
Unfortunately, patriarchal concepts ARE a kind of truth: even granting
all of your objections to them, civilizations have sprung up from them
and have lasted for 4,000 years. They have served mankind for longer 
than almost any other ideology.
   This doesn't mean that they're the best for mankind -- only that
they work for large groups, and that they've stood the test of time.
Even if feminism worked for small groups, there's no guarantee they'll
work with a planet of 5.5 billion people.
              Chip P. Unicorn
===========

From: CHIP P. UNICORN     
To: BLACK MAGIC         
Subject: Xnty...        
Date & Time: 05/14/90 22:04:18
Message Number  4590

>You are really believing in something which cannot be totally
>justified.
   You hit it right on, Black Magic. There's no proof of Adonai's
existence, nor is there proof of non-existence. This is implicit in
the definition: God exists where we cannot reach until we've died.
   Why not use your mind? That's exactly the method I've been trying
to reach to find God -- or the non-existence of God. No luck so far --
but I find it more convenient to believe than not to.
             Chip P. Unicorn
===========

From: CHIP P. UNICORN     
To: BLACK MAGIC         
Subject: God...         
Date & Time: 05/14/90 22:08:08
Message Number  4591

>No one should decide for them <in religion.>
     
Right. 
===========

From: ANGEL               
To: ACAPULCO            
Subject: What I'm doing.
Date & Time: 05/15/90 00:30:33
Message Number  4592

Sorry, you'll have to write that story yourself, I'm badly backlogged
on ideas ... and depressingly mired in the middle of a story that
refuses to find an end.  Don't you just hate it when one of your
creations simply refuses to die on cue?
===========

From: SNAKEBYTE           
To: CORWYN OF AMBER     
Subject: -=*><*=-       
Date & Time: 05/15/90 01:31:56
Message Number  4593

It's a long story, but it's something that sorta comes and goes...that 
sensation of reptilian feelings usually hits early Saturday and Sunday
mornings.....yuck!!!!
===========

From: SNAKEBYTE           
To: CHIP P. UNICORN     
Subject: -=*><*=-       
Date & Time: 05/15/90 01:33:58
Message Number  4594

I would imagine most OTHER snakes, (and a few GIFTED women). By the
way, the pornographic characteristics of the photos had nothing to do
with WHY I would get in trouble for them. It is guilt by association....
===========

From: SNAKEBYTE           
To: RUFUS               
Subject: rOAD rALLY.....
Date & Time: 05/15/90 01:36:08
Message Number  4595

>Use letters instead of numbers.
  
I am kind of partial to numbers, ya know....9,10,11,18,13,14.....
hehe, just kiddin'. Got to get something that can't be misunderstood.
The last one I was on had pictures of pizzas on the bags and the clues
were names of toppings.....I'll do something a little more imaginative
next time too. AND COLLECT THE MONEY UP FRONT!!!!!!
===========

From: SNAKEBYTE           
To: SAURON              
Subject: thermodynamics 
Date & Time: 05/15/90 01:40:12
Message Number  4596

Damn, and I was just gettin' ready to put the baseball cards and
clothes pins back on my bike spokes. WOW, wonder how much those cards
would be worth today if I didn't tear 'em up makin' machine gun noises?
Oh yeah?!?!?!?!?! WHAT DOES O.M.A. STAND FOR?!?!?!?!?!?!?! hehehehehe
===========

From: SNAKEBYTE           
To: BEATLE              
Subject: rOAD rALLY.....
Date & Time: 05/15/90 01:42:52
Message Number  4597

Definitely BRADENTON.....home turf and that stuff. I could really
pull some chains and use the street NAMEs rather then NUMBERS (RUFUS
said NO numbers). But this one was the foundation, next one will be
planned (yeah-yeah, I learned my lesson!!!!).
===========

From: CORWYN OF AMBER     
To: DM2                 
Subject: ::sigh::       
Date & Time: 05/15/90 02:55:37
Message Number  4598

> Ya know, I'm eventually gonna figure out what y'all are talking aobut.
 
 It's actually quite easy, just go nuts.. it all starts to make sense 
then.
 
                         - Corwyn
                                 (The career nutcase)
===========

From: CORWYN OF AMBER     
To: BLACK MAGIC         
Subject: ::sigh::       
Date & Time: 05/15/90 02:57:41
Message Number  4599

My reluctance to describe Opus was simply from the fact that my 
description of that ill-begotten BBS system tend to be /quite/ profane.
 
                         - Corwyn
===========

From: CORWYN OF AMBER     
To: DONTHEN             
Subject: New new subject
Date & Time: 05/15/90 02:59:59
Message Number  4600

> Assuming the people who write Opus think ANYTING....
 
 - Possible but highly unlikely.
 
I've got a termcap for VT-52 somewhere, but however, I have no idea what
the ST's do to it.  I had heard somewhere else that Opus did AVATAR, bet
when in AVATAR mode on an Opus system, my terminal went nuts, and there
was definitly no speed increase.. hmm I'll have to dig up what I do have
on AVATAR again myself I guess.  I think AVATAR may be an option most 
Opus sysops don't bother with.. I really don't know however. I've run
screaming in the other direction every time I've seen Opus Executables 
or system docs. (All those Opus sysops /can't/ be running it voluntarily
there's gotta be some curse!)  
 From what I got from the little blurb on AVATAR, (now that I think 
about it, it was probably in Telix's docs.. Avatar's codes are about as 
short as the VT-52's but they /do/ support color.
 
                        - Corwyn
===========

From: CORWYN OF AMBER     
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Lan vs. Mini's 
Date & Time: 05/15/90 03:13:16
Message Number  4601

  Have you read the current PC Magazine?
 
 The do a comparison of PC based LANS vs. Mini's with terminals hung off
them. They compared:
 
                   A DEC MicroVAX (4100?)
                   A Compaq SystemPro (w/ Netware 386)
                   An IBM 80 Supersever (w/ Netware 386)
                   A Compaq SystemPro (w/ SCO Unix 386)
 
 I was pretty surprised, the SystemPro blew away the Microvax, even when
they upgraded to a more expensive model (4800 I think) The LAN's were
run on mixed 286's and 386SX's as remote's.  They said they were shocked
at how slowly the Mini's ran.. DEC (they sent folks to make sure 
everything was set up correctly and fine-tuned for best performance) was
pretty surprised too apparently. The most interesting thing was the 
Systempro running Unix.. it ran very close to the same speed as the 
MicroVax, however, it was by far the cheapest! (One SystemPro, and 20
terminals hung of a multiport board.) I can't remember all the stats..
but you should look at the review.. the NC library has it.
 
                         - Corwyn
===========

From: DM2                 
To: CHIP P. UNICORN     
Subject: Nusubject (tm) 
Date & Time: 05/15/90 04:35:36
Message Number  4602

Yeah, and they're good for idiots like me... ;)
===========

From: DM2                 
To: CORWYN OF AMBER     
Subject: ::sigh::       
Date & Time: 05/15/90 04:36:13
Message Number  4603

Ummm I already AM nuts... any more bright suggestions?
         ---not eccentric...totally out of the circle altogether...
===========

From: BEATLE              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: IBMs           
Date & Time: 05/15/90 06:59:23
Message Number  4604

>...takes forever...
 
  So, THAT's what the computers at Best were doing when I turned them on
... I thought it was a stpid piece of software that automatically loaded
from the A drive.
===========

From: BEATLE              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: protocensorship
Date & Time: 05/15/90 07:01:43
Message Number  4605

  I always went by the definittion that censorship was the control of 
the flow of information, any way. When censoring books, you aren't 
preventing someone from saying something, they've already  said it, you
are preventing someone from hearing what was said. What's your term for 
this?
===========

From: BEATLE              
To: YNGLING             
Subject: Real dips      
Date & Time: 05/15/90 07:04:53
Message Number  4606

 >abject slavery or eternal damnaton...
 
  Yeah, I spoke with him and he believes that if you aren't serving God 
and bringing people into worshipping, then you are essentially serving 
the devil. I don't follow that. I don't actually even believe either way
... I believe more in God than the devil, so how can I serve something
I don't believe in. My worst gripe about religion is that everyone feels
it is their duty to make everyone aware and worship. I feel that if I 
want to worship, I will. I don't like people intimidating me into doing
it if I don't want to.
===========

From: BEATLE              
To: CHIP P. UNICORN     
Subject: Real dips      
Date & Time: 05/15/90 07:16:45
Message Number  4607

 >psychoanalysis can cure you of that.
 
 Good, could you recommend a good psychoanalyst?? I've been wondering
wether I should see one or not.
===========

From: CHIP P. UNICORN     
To: CORWYN OF AMBER     
Subject: Lan vs. Mini's 
Date & Time: 05/15/90 10:19:37
Message Number  4608

Dear Corwyn,
   It all depends on how something is set up. Having twenty much slower
workstations working on a problem might be faster than having just
one reasonably quick computer working on it -- but getting the
slower stations to work in sync is a major problem.
                Chip P. Unicorn
===========

From: CHIP P. UNICORN     
To: BEATLE              
Subject: Real dips      
Date & Time: 05/15/90 10:22:17
Message Number  4609

>I don't like people intimidating me into doing it [worshipping] if
>I don't want to.,
     
   Interestingly enough, most Christians believe it's the spiritual
heart that's important to God. So, not only are they trying to force
you into worshipping a God you might not believe in, but also they're
telling you that you'll still go to Hell if you don't believe with
your whole heart. If you merely, outwardly recite prayer -- you're
still a Krispy Kritter.
                  Chip P. Unicorn
===========

From: CHIP P. UNICORN     
To: BEATLE              
Subject: Real dips      
Date & Time: 05/15/90 10:25:12
Message Number  4610

   Good old Dr. I. B. Qvack might help you. He's been in the psycho-
analysis business for twenty-three years, now, and he guarantees a
73% recovery! Paranoia, schitzophrenia, insomnia, and bucalia -- he's
treated them all. Good old Dr. Qvack is completely confidential, and
has only published 10% of his patients' names, addresses, and telephone
numbers, and transcripts of conversations.
   This month, Dr. Qvack is having a special: cure two paranoids, get
the third one free! Offer expires 5/31/90 -- all cures must be 
accomplished by this date. Prohibited where void.
===========

From: DONTHEN             
To: CORWYN OF AMBER     
Subject: New new subject
Date & Time: 05/15/90 10:37:41
Message Number  4612

Hm.  Well, Opus 1.1x says "Avatar" for the color/IBM graphic mode that I
was running it in when /my/ terminal was on ANSI, and had no problems
with either Raven's QMODEM-from-hell or the TRS-80's DTERM (well, DTERM
did have problems, but they were the same problems it has with most
ANSI displays--no IBM graphic characters, of course, and it tries to
simulate color changes by flipping reverse video on and off, which
only makes things spectacularly ugly).  Opus' reference to "Avatar" is
the only place I've actually seen it listed; I'm not sure it really
exists as a "normal" terminal definition	 at all -- it may have been
something created by whoever took over the Opus project with 1.10 (not
the original author, who apparently left the MS-DOS field to port Opus
1.03 to the Macintosh, something I'm sure the Apple world will truly
appreciate).
===========

From: CORWYN OF AMBER     
To: DM2                 
Subject: ::sigh::       
Date & Time: 05/15/90 12:05:51
Message Number  4613

 I don't understand.. everything should make sense. Now I'm getting 
confused.. could I (wretch) be getting sane?
 
 - unlikely.
 
                         - Corwyn
===========

From: CORWYN OF AMBER     
To: BEATLE              
Subject: Real dips      
Date & Time: 05/15/90 12:08:02
Message Number  4614

 > I don't like people intimidating me into doing it if I don't want to.
 
 There's an easy solution for this: Intimidate /them/ into /not/ 
bothering you!  ie. "You say one more word about God, and you're going
to find out whether you're going to heaven or hell real quick... 
I'll let you visit one personally!"
 
                         - Corwyn
===========

From: CORWYN OF AMBER     
To: CHIP P. UNICORN     
Subject: Lan vs. Mini's 
Date & Time: 05/15/90 12:10:36
Message Number  4615

The test was for accounting software.. (mostly) However I have seen an
ad for a 486 showing a benchmark against a Microvax.. it was twice as
fast.  Turtle's response: "Yeah, but hang 20 terminals of the VAX, and
do the benchmark again!"  Well, they did, and the SystemPro still won.
I was surprised myself.. but it seems the industry (which has standard-
ized on 80x86 systems and LANS isn't quite as stupid as Turtle (and me
to some extent) thought.  The systems are expensive, but they do manage
to perform very well.
 
                         - Corwyn
===========

From: CORWYN OF AMBER     
To: DONTHEN             
Subject: New new subject
Date & Time: 05/15/90 12:16:48
Message Number  4616

Actually... I've seen Red Ryder, and WWIV (Yes this is a port of the IBM
WWIV to the Mac.. and as much as I /hate/ Opus, it will probably be the
best Mac Softare around. My Mac-addicted freind once noted that all the
good BBS's (Mac exclusive) were run on PC's! There is no stable Mac BBS
software currently.
Back to topic - I just tried AVATAR on the Chipper Clipper, and it /is/
faster, but probably not worth the trouble of implementing. I try and 
avoid the 40 color changes a line that some Sysops seem to think is 
incredibly appealing. I guess 9600 baud users don't mind.
 
                         - Corwyn
===========

From: BLACK MAGIC         
To: TURTLE              
Subject: IBMs           
Date & Time: 05/15/90 16:12:28
Message Number  4620

That's what I thought!  Ghods!  Sometimes you really bug me....:)
         The Lady
.s
(sorry, forgot where I am)
===========

From: RUFUS               
To: CHIP P. UNICORN     
Subject: Not going...   
Date & Time: 05/15/90 17:39:36
Message Number  4621

I suppose this mean what I saw of you this weekend was my imagination.
And when we went to Arby's in the Green Bitch was also my imagination.
 
   ...wonder what kinda gas milage my imagination gets?
===========

From: RUFUS               
To: BEATLE              
Subject: Something else 
Date & Time: 05/15/90 17:50:31
Message Number  4622

>he didn't recognize your voice over the speaker. I don't know how that
>could happen...
 
Most speaker /I/ run into usually sound really bad.  I hear that all
the speakers are connected to phone lines that run to Alaska, where
there is a microphone two feet away, which is connected to phone
lines that run back into the store.  This room is located near an
airport.  This would account for the bad quality.
 
     ...did that make sense?  I sure hope not.
===========

From: RUFUS               
To: BEATLE              
Subject: protocensorship
Date & Time: 05/15/90 17:59:59
Message Number  4623

That should have been "Saturday Night Five Seconds Late."  They had
a delay of five seconds just in case Andy slipped.  I was wandering
around the con looking for someone, and even if I was in the room, the
TV had been taken over by the Orlando Society of Cinematographers (or
some such group).
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: CHIP P. UNICORN     
Subject: godtalk        
Date & Time: 05/15/90 18:23:43
Message Number  4624

Christianity and Islam /are/ the same god, dude; Judiasm, Islam, and
Christianity all spring from the same source, consider the Old
Testament as a cornerstone of their sacred writings, and worship the
being worshipped by the ancient Hebrews. Judiasm stops at the Old
Testament (that's the Bible version 1.3); Christians use the Old
and New Testaments as the compilation of their faith (the Bible version
2.0), and Muslims the Old Testament and the Koran (the Bible version
2.0[a], beta release). How often have you gone fishing while wearing onl
skydiving gear?
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: DM2                 
Subject: ::sigh::       
Date & Time: 05/15/90 18:36:28
Message Number  4625

>I already AM nuts...
 
Well then, you're already halfway to Enlightenment and Inner Peace (tm).
Now all you need to do is free yourself from the bonds of rationality
and logic, and the True Meaning of Existance (tm) will be revealed to
you. Of course, once that happens you begin behaving in a peculiar
manner...
                   --An Enlightened (tm) Turtle
(c) 1990 Anarchy Now, Inc. All trademarks (tm) 1990 People United for
Bob, Inc., a subsidiary of General Dynamics.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: BEATLE              
Subject: IBMs           
Date & Time: 05/15/90 18:39:37
Message Number  4626

The stupid piece of software that automatically loads from the A
drive on IBM machines is called "MS-DOS." The stupid piece of software
that runs without loading is the "bootstrap loader." If you have a hard
disk, the stupid piece of software that runs without loading will
automatically load the stupid software that normally loads from the A
drive from the C drive. In any event, the stupid logon script that
ISN'T a startup alias that executes automatically once the stupid
piece of software has loaded is called "AUTOEXEC.BAT," which is a pretty
stupid name; on some systems it automatically executes a /really/ stupid
piece of software called "Automenu" or a really /amazingly/ stupid piece
of software called "Norton Commander" that tries to act like a DOS
shell for people with Mac envy.
   Of course, the stupid piece of software that executes without loading
is also capable of loading a somewhat less stupid piece of software
called DR-DOS, a decidedly UNstupid piece of software called CP/M-86, or
a remarkably good piece of software called UNIX. Sadly, however, it
almost never does.
                  --A Z Turtle
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: BEATLE              
Subject: protocensorship
Date & Time: 05/15/90 18:46:15
Message Number  4627

When you cenmsor books, you are effectively preventing someone from
saying something in the sense that you are destroying the media which
contains that person's message. Censorship is the act of preventing
an individual (or individuals) from presenting a message, opinion, or
idea publically; obviously, if the message is out there but one
particular individual is being denied access to it, that's something
other than censorship. (If your mother had called NBC and pressured them
to cancel the show, /then/ it would be censorship).
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: CORWYN OF AMBER     
Subject: Lan vs. Mini's 
Date & Time: 05/15/90 18:53:14
Message Number  4628

>Well, they did [hang 20 terminals off the SystemPro]...
 
Did they, or did they hang 20 PC's off the SystemPro? In a mini-
computing or mainframe environment, you're letting the host do ALL
the processing; in a PC LAN, the host is acting as a file server, not
a processor, and most of the work is being done by the PC's attached
to the file server. (Incidentally, Digital makes a VMS software package
that allows a VAX or MicroVAX to act as a file server in a PC LAN, and
while it's at it also allows the PC's to access VMS resources and
can even act as a bridge to a mainframe, a VAXcluster, a WAN, or a
supercomputer file server--all transparentally to the PC user. The
PC client software comes with a bundle of TSR programs which can be
invoked to put the PC into remote terminal mode for access to VMS,
run DECwindows (DEC's XWindows implementation), or communicate with
a WAN or SFS or what-have-you, then drop back down into the Lotus-123
mucous you were wallowing in before you escaped to real computing.
           --A mainframe Turtle
By the way, did they also mention how often they ran into file conflicts
on the LAN, or how many times they got that silly
Error Reading Network: Abort, Retry, Ignore?
thing?
===========

From: CORWYN OF AMBER     
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Lan vs. Mini's 
Date & Time: 05/16/90 04:22:10
Message Number  4631

One of the tests they ran was to run 20 /terminals/ off of the systempro
this was under SCO Unix 386.. It finished ahead of the low end micro-
Vax, and a hare beneath the high end. However it's cost is about half.
Hmm interesting.. now if you take a Logix 486 and run Unix.. what's the 
price performance difference?
 
                         - Corwyn
===========

From: CORWYN OF AMBER     
To: DONTHEN             
Subject: New new subject
Date & Time: 05/16/90 04:25:41
Message Number  4632

I've worked Red Ryder from both ends.. it's configurable, but in very
frustrating ways! WWIV.. I remember lot's of headaches, and an interface
about on a par with PcBoard.. not exactly top-notch.
 
                         - Corwyn
===========

From: DELPHI              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: ibms           
Date & Time: 05/16/90 08:53:17
Message Number  4633

The problem is that I need to be able to use the WordPerfect version
they are using so I can work on their disks. I could conceivably
transmit back and forth if the software matched, but the disks don't
match either. I will look into this cable, however. I just don't see
how it will transmit pure enough for camera-ready copy and that's the
quality I need. I wish there would be a way out....
===========

From: DELPHI              
To: DONTHEN             
Subject: godtalk        
Date & Time: 05/16/90 08:57:02
Message Number  4634

Obviously we believe different sources, but I do believe mine are 
credible. I also believe much of what we have been told throughout
patriarchy is conceived to keep us believing in black-and-white
reality. For a good look at what may really have happened, check out
Elizabeth Gould Davis's The First Sex from Selby Library where she
herself was a librarian until her death in the 1970s.
One of the assertions she makes (along with Elaine Morgan in The
Descent of Woman) and others, is that at one time we were only one
gender. It was most surely not what we today think of as female, yet
more female than male. Conception was parthenogenic. It was only when
the X chromosone mutated into the Y that what we think of as males
began to exist. Thus, even the dichotomy of gender differences may
be a patriarchal concept. If there were no men, why would there be
a male god? All this came later.
One note: matriarchal systems are not the opposite of patriarchal. 
Patriarchary is based on control and ownership. Matriarchy is
gynocentric, centered on creation and freedom. I believe where we
are now headed is neither matriarchy or patriarchy, but a matrifocal
social anarchy where what life and a new kind of inner power is what
is valued.
===========

From: DONTHEN             
To: CORWYN OF AMBER     
Subject: New new subject
Date & Time: 05/16/90 14:42:31
Message Number  4635

Well, I didn't say WWIV was /incredible/, just a lot faster.  The menu
is very reminiscent of PCBoard, but it's fairly easy to use, even if it
isn't all that logical and is carved in stone (i.e., hardwired into the
program).
===========

From: DONTHEN             
To: DELPHI              
Subject: godtalk        
Date & Time: 05/16/90 14:44:23
Message Number  4636

When we were only one gender, there wasn't anything resembling humans
around yet.  There is an OVERWHELMING amount of evidence to indicate
that sexual differentation has been with us since long before the
dinosaurs.  This also has absolutely nothing to do with politics.  I
also believe "my" sources--such people as Margaret Murray, considered
the foremost anthropological authority on Wicca and the Cult of the
Horned God--are accurate.
   I have a great deal of trouble believing that "patriarchy is based
on control and ownership, while matriarchy is based on freedom."  This
is just too black-and-white for me to be comfortable with.  If it is
possible to find any counterexamples, you can't make such a blanket
statement.  Also, a "gynocentric" culture could, in the long run, be no
better or worse than an "androcentric" one.  Female chauvinism is not
an oxymoron; if putting males in a position of too-high importance over
females leads to a lot of the problems you stated, doing the reverse
would also lead to a set of problems.  Different ones, perhaps, but it
is still substitution, not solution.  While I am not enchanted with the
status quo, I think changes have to be gradual (i.e., /have/ to be--
humans don't change overnight, or even over decades), and trying to
change existing systems within is not the best tactic, it's the only
effective one.  Moving towards a truly androgynous system will be the
way change is effected; the best thing we can do is try to guide the
existing institutions towards that course.  Ripping them down and trying
to install a benevolent matriarchy in their place is doomed for the same
reason trying to install /anything/ in their place quickly is.  And, as
I said, I think your implicit equation of matriarchal societies with
utopia is idealistic at best.
===========

From: CHIP P. UNICORN     
To: RUFUS               
Subject: Not going...   
Date & Time: 05/16/90 15:37:22
Message Number  4637

   1. Open mouth.
   2. Insert hoof.
   3. Chew SILENTLY.
              Chip P. Unicorn
===========

From: CHIP P. UNICORN     
To: TURTLE              
Subject: ::sigh::       
Date & Time: 05/16/90 15:41:53
Message Number  4638

Turtle,
   You managed to impress a priest of the SubGenius. You're scary.
            Chip P. Unicorn
===========

From: CHIP P. UNICORN     
To: DELPHI              
Subject: godtalk        
Date & Time: 05/16/90 15:45:42
Message Number  4639

Dear Delphi,
>It was only when the X chromosone mutated into the Y that what we think
>of as males began to exist.
    
   Hate to say this, but that happened only a "short while," evolution-
arily speaking, after multi-celled animals began. Genetically, it makes
more sense to have two genders than one: there is much more chance of
genetic unity, and it also helps evolution move forward more quickly.
(It allows those who can survive the best to multiply more quickly.)
Needless to say, it happened well before even mammals appeared on the
Earth. (even before lizards...)
     
   You seem to be expressing yourself a dichotomy: that men -- to you --
are inherently controlling and oppressing, and that women are creative
and free and good. Do you really mean to say that?
               Chip P. Unicorn
===========

From: YNGLING             
To: BLACK MAGIC         
Subject: :) the sequel  
Date & Time: 05/16/90 16:15:22
Message Number  4640

Dear Lady -
   Where am I?
   Where are you?  I'm in the middle of buying a three bedroom, two
bath mortgage so I havent had much free time...been dealing with loan
officers (may they rot in Hell forever...as if I knew where my last four
tax returns are at..let alone my last three bank statements!)
    At this rate I might have to leave A Box Full of Hell to you in my
will.
                          The Yngling
"Its a poor sort of memory that only works backward."
                          -Lewis Carroll
                           Through the Looking Glass
===========

From: YNGLING             
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Arrghhh        
Date & Time: 05/16/90 16:24:35
Message Number  4641

Turtle,
>I never did get the "Cannon Fodder for Christ (tm)" thing.
You didnt?  I got one absolutely free when I ordered my ginzu miracle
potato dicer and car waxer (patent pending, of course).  And the best
part was that I got to KEEP it free of charge when I sent the ginzu
thingymibob back, just for trying it out! Neat, huh?
                          The Yngling
===========

From: YNGLING             
To: BEATLE              
Subject: Real dips      
Date & Time: 05/16/90 16:34:09
Message Number  4642

Beatle,
As long as we're griping aboiut people preaching...what about those
door to door do-gooders? There's nothing worse than hearing your wife's
inane little dog barking more than usual, and looking out to see the
God Squad walking up to your door, pamphlets in hand, halos on tight.
I really hate having to yell at people I dont even know...
                                   The Yngling
===========

From: C.C.A.              
To: CHIP P. UNICORN     
Subject: Real dips      
Date & Time: 05/16/90 17:05:51
Message Number  4643

I can't answer them either
===========

From: C.C.A.              
To: CHIP P. UNICORN     
Subject: Question       
Date & Time: 05/16/90 17:07:44
Message Number  4644

I realize that our pastors and other laypersons are not always from God.
Our church just fired a youth minister 
for doing his job. I don't think that was right, because he did what he 
was hired for. But, he told some of the rich kids somthing they didn't 
want to hear. The point is,(this may not be exactly on the subject)he 
/was/ sent from God and was still persecuted for it.
What can I do??(I'm open to suggestions)
===========

From: C.C.A.              
To: BEATLE              
Subject: Real dips      
Date & Time: 05/16/90 17:15:16
Message Number  4645

>Is it some sort of odd nature of yours to be more of a religious
fanatic in writing than in person??
  
In a word, YES!
===========

From: C.C.A.              
To: CORWYN OF AMBER     
Subject: Real dips      
Date & Time: 05/16/90 17:20:49
Message Number  4646

I'm sorry I offended you.(seriously) I ask your forgiveness.
===========

From: C.C.A.              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Waaaay far out 
Date & Time: 05/16/90 17:28:42
Message Number  4647

I can't really explain it. Ask BEATLE, he told me he can almost under-
stand it.
===========

From: C.C.A.              
To: YNGLING             
Subject: Gimme that.... 
Date & Time: 05/16/90 17:31:16
Message Number  4648

The word is begotten(sp?).(see John 3:16)
===========

From: C.C.A.              
To: CHIP P. UNICORN     
Subject: Real dips      
Date & Time: 05/16/90 17:34:37
Message Number  4649

GOOD JOB, BROTHER!!!!!!
===========

From: C.C.A.              
To: DONTHEN             
Subject: Real dips      
Date & Time: 05/16/90 17:37:16
Message Number  4650

Perhaps I should slack off on the religion a little.....
===========

From: C.C.A.              
To: ANGEL               
Subject: Real dips      
Date & Time: 05/16/90 17:40:32
Message Number  4651

They must have my capitalized FAITH in a capitalized SOMETHING, or else 
they would be paranoid that their computers would fall apart while they 
were using them.
===========

From: BEATLE              
To: C.C.A.              
Subject: Waaaay far out 
Date & Time: 05/16/90 18:37:52
Message Number  4653

> Ask BEATLE, he told me he could almost understand it.
 
 Don't dump this one on me. I just figured that .... I forgot. I should 
read your message again.
===========

From: DONTHEN             
To: ALL                 
Subject: Jim Henson     
Date & Time: 05/17/90 00:04:15
Message Number  4654

died today at 53.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: DM2                 
Subject: ::sigh::       
Date & Time: 05/17/90 00:23:12
Message Number  4655

>ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
And SNERG to you, too...:)
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: DELPHI              
Subject: godtalk        
Date & Time: 05/17/90 00:25:58
Message Number  4656

Um, I hate to affront your reliable, unbiased, and objective sources,
but in the biosphere /we/ live in genetic sex differences exist in
every organism more advanced than a planaria, although I can't speak for
the authors you named. Quite frankly, I don't see any evidence anywhere
in the world of biology, or for that matter in the world of reality,
for any organism that is both asexual and recognizably human, much
as certain rabid "I-hate-all-men-they-are-all-engaged-in-an-evil-
conspiracy" types would like to believe. But of course, that's only
because I'm male and therefore (a) automatically a party to the Great
Universal Male Conspiracy (tm), (b) willing to believe anything that
disagrees with whatever view is put forth by an obviously more
enlightened female (who must be right because she's female and
therefore unbiased (?), regardless of the validity of her "theories"--to
use a term Creationists apply to /their/ rantings, too) and (c) willing
to do anything to preserve the male-dominated Grind Females Into Dust
(tm) status quo. Therefore, you may feel free to discard both this
message and any physical evidence that may support it.
   Thank you, and have a nice day.
             --A patriarchial Turtle
All trademarks (c) General Dynamics, a subsidiary of Men Are
Beasts, Inc.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: DONTHEN             
Subject: godtalk        
Date & Time: 05/17/90 00:33:52
Message Number  4657

What? You mean maybe females can be chauvanists, too? Noooooo!
Next you'll be telling me that it's possible for racial minorities
to engage in racism! What are you, some kind of liberal pinko
right-wing bleeding heart conservative male chauvanist?
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: CHIP P. UNICORN     
Subject: **sigh**       
Date & Time: 05/17/90 00:35:47
Message Number  4658

>You managed to impress a priest of the SubGenius. You're scary.
 
God, I love being a Turtle!
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: C.C.A.              
Subject: Real ice cream 
Date & Time: 05/17/90 00:43:37
Message Number  4659

>Perhaps I should slack off on the religion a little....
 
The quest for Slack, grasshopper, is one of the fundamental challenges
of this mortal life. The Way to Slack is the Way to Inner Peace, 
Happiness, and Freedom from Obnoxious TV Advertising. The Road
to Slack can be found through faith in Bob, the pinnacle of Slack.
Join Bob through his holy institution, the Church of the SubGenius,
and YOU can buy the Universal Secret, too! The Church of the SubGenius
can be your eternal salvation, or triple your money refunded. Remember,
the Church of the Subgenius is the /only/ church which can make that
guarantee, because it's the One True Religion that's better than all the
other One True Religions put together. Remember, the longest journey
starts with a single payment...
              --An enlightened Turtle
(c) 1990 Turtles United For Bob
===========

From: DM2                 
To: DONTHEN             
Subject: Jim Henson     
Date & Time: 05/17/90 03:54:59
Message Number  4660

And a terrible loss it is for ALL of us, adults and children alike.
:'(
===========

From: DM2                 
To: TURTLE              
Subject: ::sigh::       
Date & Time: 05/17/90 03:56:17
Message Number  4661

Ummmmmmm Was that in English?  ;)
===========

From: CORWYN OF AMBER     
To: DONTHEN             
Subject: New new subject
Date & Time: 05/17/90 04:42:28
Message Number  4663

True.. I still don't get why anybody still uses pcboard. I can see where
some users /might/ like it better since all the commands are always the 
same, which I don't particulary have a real problem with... it's just 
that I haven't yet seen a /good/ hardwired bbs setup. This means it
/has/ to have hotkeys.. (no I don't mean the kind where you wait for the
menu to finish /then/ can hit a key without return) I mean that when you
hit the key, the program DOES IT!
 
                         - Corwyn
===========

From: CORWYN OF AMBER     
To: C.C.A.              
Subject: Real dips      
Date & Time: 05/17/90 04:54:29
Message Number  4664

Frankly, I'm not offended by you personally, I'm offended by the whole
exclusivist concept. Your entire religion offends me. I don't understand
how people can be so smug and arrogant.
The claim "You're either serving God or Satan" I find quite pompous and
annoying.
 
 
                         - Corwyn
===========

From: KEN OBER            
To: BEATLE              
Subject: Real dips      
Date & Time: 05/17/90 12:47:29
Message Number  4665

> could you recommend a good psychoanalyst??
 
A home labotomy would be just as good, and cheaper, too!
===========

From: KEN OBER            
To: YNGLING             
Subject: A Problem...   
Date & Time: 05/17/90 12:52:47
Message Number  4666

I wanted to tell YOU (And anyone else who may have had this problem) on 
the Petra system, that sometimes it doesn't save new user information 
But don't worry, Paragon is being sent 2-Day Air-Mail....
===========

From: YNGLING             
To: C.C.A.              
Subject: Gimme that.... 
Date & Time: 05/17/90 16:22:27
Message Number  4667

No, I meant "forgotten."
              The Yngling
===========

From: SPELLWIND           
To: CHIP P. UNICORN     
Subject: I'm baaaack!   
Date & Time: 05/17/90 16:48:45
Message Number  4668

     Hi! Couldn't keep me off the waves for long! I'm back!
 A new and improved human Spellwind!
===========

From: SPELLWIND           
To: YNGLING             
Subject: Witnesses      
Date & Time: 05/17/90 16:58:14
Message Number  4669

    A jehova's witness came to my door the other day. I never met a JW 
before then. They're quite consevatively dressed, yet liberal at the mo-
uth. I had to close the door on her. Anyone coming to my door to invade
my freedom of religion in the middle of the afternoon disturbing my hy-
bernation by explaining her beleifs to me and shoving pamphlets in my 
fists deserves more than just a polite doorslamming. ( After I told her
how false i felt the christian religion was)
===========

From: SPELLWIND           
To: CHIP P. UNICORN     
Subject: medeival       
Date & Time: 05/17/90 17:05:18
Message Number  4670

    I put the medeival Europe and today together and find they're alar-
mingly alike! They're broadcasting their "one true beleif" on televis-
ion and radio, they influence laws, they censor anything they don't li-
ke and silence anyone they want. I want them stopped before they start
burning again! You may not look at it all that much but they are in co-
ntrol! They decide what's moral and what's a satanical influence to co-
ntrol us and turn us into mindless slaves, but it's THEM who are turning
you into mindless slaves! They are in control! Any non-christian had 
better worry, they think Winger is a satanic, unmoral, brainwashing evil
influence (yes Winger!)!!
 
    a concerned for my freedom Spellwind.
===========

From: SPELLWIND           
To: C.C.A.              
Subject: You            
Date & Time: 05/17/90 17:41:03
Message Number  4672

   You're a very insecure person, you know. You look for something to
cling onto and hold on no matter how unstable it is. You have been talk-
ed to by so many people here, yet you cling to your cross because it's 
all you have. are you afraid of exploring the possibility that you're
wrong? Boy, you need a confidence booster.
===========

From: BLACK MAGIC         
To: CHIP P. UNICORN     
Subject: God...         
Date & Time: 05/17/90 18:22:51
Message Number  4674

:)
  The Lady
===========

From: BLACK MAGIC         
To: CORWYN OF AMBER     
Subject: ::sigh::       
Date & Time: 05/17/90 18:24:55
Message Number  4675

*sigh*  Hehehehe...now, now.  Be a nice boy.  Write your papers, get a's
and then GO TO SLEEP! 
       The Lady
===========

From: BLACK MAGIC         
To: BEATLE              
Subject: Real dips      
Date & Time: 05/17/90 18:27:40
Message Number  4676

Collin / Audrey Babcock (now divorced, but excellent)  There are many 
others, but these two are really good.  I worked in the Psych field for 
a couple of years....trust me....(btw, whens the last time you trusted
someone who said "trust me"?)
         The Lady....:>
===========

From: BLACK MAGIC         
To: TURTLE              
Subject: IBMs           
Date & Time: 05/17/90 18:39:04
Message Number  4677

Nice damn attitude!  I happen to use NCC! QED! My, my.....
 
===========

From: BLACK MAGIC         
To: YNGLING             
Subject: :) the sequel  
Date & Time: 05/17/90 18:44:27
Message Number  4678

Now, now...I am *ever* sorry.  Just smile...everything will work out, 
I'm sure.  Well, I hope I don't get it through your will...I'd much 
prefer if you were alive while I borrow /it/.  Hmm...funny, were about
to but another set of car payments...ugh!  And it's got to be a VOLVO, 
too!  ("they have steel bodies, they have air bags, they are S*A*F*E*...
a word I despise!)
          The Lady
===========

From: BLACK MAGIC         
To: CORWYN OF AMBER     
Subject: Real dips      
Date & Time: 05/17/90 18:51:41
Message Number  4679

Very well put.  I've nothing against religion, until, of course, someone
starts pushing it on me.
          _The Lady
===========

From: BLACK MAGIC         
To: SPELLWIND           
Subject: Adam           
Date & Time: 05/17/90 18:54:19
Message Number  4680

I do choose to disagree...or better put, ARGUE!  I, for one, am a Jew, 
and I, for one, was raised in synagogue.  AND I FOR ONE know that your
statement about women being "brainwashed into believing /all of this/ we
are controlled by men" is FALSE.  How wrong of you to speak an unfair, 
untruth.  You are not female, nor are you Jewish.  Nor, apparently, do 
you know much about the Jewish religion and what we, as children or 
adults, are taught. QED!
           -An ANGRY Lady
===========

From: SPELLWIND           
To: BLACK MAGIC         
Subject: hmm            
Date & Time: 05/17/90 19:04:12
Message Number  4681

  
  Ahem.....
                    Sizzle, Milady.
===========

From: SPELLWIND           
To: BLACK MAGIC         
Subject: Adam           
Date & Time: 05/17/90 19:16:48
Message Number  4682

   So not to offend, Milady, I have deleted the message. But everything
written there I strongly beleive. 
 
 ( Is 'lady' correct? )
 
    Don't start.
===========

From: ACAPULCO            
To: CHIP P. UNICORN     
Subject: Real solutions 
Date & Time: 05/17/90 19:29:04
Message Number  4683

I'm not missing the point. I don't have the Book in front of me, and
I'm not prone to memorization, but plants would not likely constitute
the definition being discussed in the passage. Plants would have been
ignored in the poetics of the scripture.
 
{Acapulco}
===========

From: ACAPULCO            
To: ANGEL               
Subject: What I'm doing.
Date & Time: 05/17/90 19:34:56
Message Number  4684

Indeed, it happens all too often to me... it might be a symptom of
disorganization on my part. I can't speak for you (even if I *had*
met you, which I have not).
 
Looks like one more idea going the way of the wind.
 
{Acapulco}
===========

From: BLACK MAGIC         
To: SPELLWIND           
Subject: hmm            
Date & Time: 05/17/90 23:08:40
Message Number  4685

:>  Sizzle, not me.  You see, milord, I never sizzle...I only fry.
            -The Lady In Black
===========

From: BLACK MAGIC         
To: SPELLWIND           
Subject: Adam           
Date & Time: 05/17/90 23:09:40
Message Number  4686

Yes, LADY is correct.  Though you may choose not to believe so, I am a 
lady...or if one prefers, a young woman.  So, tell me, while we're at it
how the hell are you?  (You asked me not to start, therefore, I haven't
However, this does not prove your theory that women are controlled by 
men as a valid one...)  Smarter than you think, eh? :>
         (*Don't start w/ me...let's be nice*)
                    Black Magic / The LADY
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: BLACK MAGIC         
Subject: God...         
Date & Time: 05/17/90 23:21:06
Message Number  4687

>:)
 
Succinct. I like that.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: BLACK MAGIC         
Subject: IBMs           
Date & Time: 05/17/90 23:22:03
Message Number  4688

>Nice damn attitude!
 
Yes.
 
>I happen to use NCC!
 
Mac envy in someone who calls Amigas "toys?" My, my, my.
 
>QED!
 
:P
 
>My my my!
 
Your your your WHAT?
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SNAKEBYTE           
Subject: Hey, dude!     
Date & Time: 05/17/90 23:26:52
Message Number  4689

I finally got a chance to play with DR-DOS, and guess what? It wouldn't
boot! The system disk is garphled beyond recognition. *Sigh* I hate when
that happens...
===========

From: DONTHEN             
To: TURTLE              
Subject: godtalk        
Date & Time: 05/17/90 23:46:24
Message Number  4690

That's "chauvinist," not "chauvanist."  If you're asking if I think
Germaine Greer is being chauvinistic when she keeps men from her
autograph sessions on the current promotional tour she's doing for her
book, "Daddy", or I think Spike Lee is being racist for refusing to
talk to white fans of his when he was visiting New York City a few
months ago--doing so under the pretense that they're not really fans but
are just humoring him because he's black... well, yes.  If a male author
kept women fans out of his autograph sessions, or a white director
refused to talk to black fans, you can bet the "chauvinist" and "racist"
epithets would be flying, and rightly so.  Maybe I'm missing something
crucial, but it would seem that for those terms to have any meaning,
they have to be applied /equally/, regardless of which sex is being
chauvinist or which color is being racist.  After all, they wouldn't be
problems if the issue of equality wasn't a problem to begin with.
===========

From: DONTHEN             
To: CORWYN OF AMBER     
Subject: New new subject
Date & Time: 05/17/90 23:51:34
Message Number  4691

Considering I wrote a BBS in interpreted BASIC that had hotkeys
(it would have to finish printing out the current command name it was
on, or sometimes the current line, but not the entire menu), I'm not
sure why they're not used more often.  It's really not all that
difficult... just execute the equivalent of INKEY$ every character (or
if you're cheap--or writing in interpreted BASIC--after every word or
line), and if a key's been pressed, check to see if it's a valid command
key and go to it if it is, otherwise throw it out and continue printing
as if nothing's happened.  Oh, well....
===========

From: DONTHEN             
To: SPELLWIND           
Subject: medeival       
Date & Time: 05/17/90 23:54:48
Message Number  4692

Winger isn't Satanic.  They're kind of short and blue, but not Satanic.
 
-D-  [down with Smurf metal!]
===========

From: DONTHEN             
To: ACAPULCO            
Subject: Incidentally,  
Date & Time: 05/17/90 23:57:30
Message Number  4693

the 'second version' of "Satisfaction" is apparently being rejected by
FurVersion for being too nasty.  The sex in it isn't as explicit as some
of the stories FV's printed--including a few by the editor of the
'zine--but evidently he's edgy about printing something with graphic
violence, even though it's (or should be) obviously a Clive Barker-type
horror story.
   By the way, are you still considering sending a copy of that to the
horror writer on your information service?....
===========

From: CORWYN OF AMBER     
To: BLACK MAGIC         
Subject: ::sigh::       
Date & Time: 05/18/90 06:54:05
Message Number  4694

Write my papers?!?!? Yuck.. why would I do something stupid like that?
 
                         - Corwyn
===========

From: CORWYN OF AMBER     
To: BLACK MAGIC         
Subject: IBMs           
Date & Time: 05/18/90 06:55:13
Message Number  4695

When he start's making fun of the name of 'AUTOEXEC.BAT' you know he's
getting desperate. They're going to crawl into his home while he's 
asleep.. the creeping MS-DOS plauge (sic)
 
                         - Corwyn
===========

From: CORWYN OF AMBER     
To: TURTLE              
Subject: IBMs           
Date & Time: 05/18/90 06:59:54
Message Number  4696

Norton Commander as Mac envy.. grow up Turtle.  Norton commander's 
simply a very usefull file management tool. However, when I get tired of
it.. I /quit/ and go back to the bare, naked command line. I don't like
to not have any choice /but/ the command line.. but I'd really be upset
if someone stuck me in a brain damaged shell (Mac Finder) and wouldn't 
let me back to my command line. Mac envy?? Ha! I /might/ envy a Mac IIfx
running A/UX, but even that runs under finder.. so it probably crashes
regularly.. Mac = Ate my document.
 
                         - Corwyn
===========

From: CORWYN OF AMBER     
To: DONTHEN             
Subject: New new subject
Date & Time: 05/18/90 07:05:40
Message Number  4697

I don't get it either.. are they /trying/ to make thier BBS software
inconvenient?
 
                         - Corwyn
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: ---                 
Subject: ---            
Date & Time: 05/19/90 02:09:03
Message Number  4700

:Test Message:
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: CORWYN OF AMBER     
Subject: IBMs           
Date & Time: 05/19/90 02:29:35
Message Number  4702

Tsk, tsk, tsk. Such strong words...Lest you get the right idea,
I'm not especially fond of Macs (even though A/UX doesn't, in
fact, run under Finder...although you can run Finder applications
under IT). However, I do find it amusing that people who sneer at
Macs (the same people, mind you, who run 8-bit operating systems on
32-bit machines) seem so entranced with the whole windows-icons-and-
mice "thang"...it's like they *want* to have a cute Mac interface but
don't want to admit that there's something about the Mac that they like.
(BTW, have you seen IBM's new PS/2 promotional tack? They're pushing the
PS/2 as a Mac-like computer that costs less now..."We have mice, just
like the Macintosh! We have windows, just like the Macintosh!" Hehehe!)
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: ALL                 
Subject: -System Crash- 
Date & Time: 05/19/90 02:34:06
Message Number  4703

Yep, folks, the system crashed AGAIN yesterday during a logon session
(the culprit this time being our very own Chip P. Unicorn...) Normally,
that would involve a downtime of about half an hour to restore a backup,
and Devil take any messages that were posted after the last backup; this
time, though, the reptile got *really* pissed at the prospect of losing
a hundred or so messages and rebuilt the message file by hand. Hence,
anyone who called for the last eighteen hours or so didn't get through.
I'm pleased to say, though, that the message base has been restored with
the loss of only one message...unfortunately, it was a mail message,
and Ghod only knows who it was from or who it was intended for. If
you've left anyone E-mail lately (like, on the 17th or 18th), you
might want to do it again just to make sure it gets where it's destined.
Thank you for your patience...
                 --An impatient, and aggravated, Turtle who *really
                   hates* this BBS software
===========

From: CHIP P. UNICORN     
To: C.C.A.              
Subject: Question       
Date & Time: 05/19/90 05:21:21
Message Number  4705

>He was sent from God and was still persecuted for it.
       
   Read both the OT and the NT... being from God almost ensures 
persecution. Face it, God refuses to stop people in His fold from
being persecuted... all He promises is that we'll have the strength
to endure. (Read James 1.) 
   Actually, I'm curious: could you tell me more details about the
story?
                Chip P. Unicorn
===========

From: CHIP P. UNICORN     
To: C.C.A.              
Subject: Real dips      
Date & Time: 05/19/90 05:24:03
Message Number  4706

Why do you feel it's more important to be more of a fanatic in
writing? Just be yourself, C.C.A., and people will like you. The
people in BBS-land don't know anything about your background -- you're
starting here with a completely (well -- almost completely...) clean
slate. Join in -- as yourself.
               Chip P. Unicorn
===========

From: CHIP P. UNICORN     
To: DONTHEN             
Subject: Jim Henson     
Date & Time: 05/19/90 05:28:11
Message Number  4707

Dear Donthen,
   Jim Henson AND Sammy Davis, Jr. both died yesterday. And Lithuania
decided to take back all of the laws they've passed as an independent
country since March. <*SIGH!*> Where's those hot, horny fox drinks?
                Chip P. Unicorn
===========

From: CHIP P. UNICORN     
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Real ice cream 
Date & Time: 05/19/90 05:32:49
Message Number  4708

Dear Turtle,
   Don't be fooled by Bob-ism! It's just another religion!
   Are you sick and tired of shaven-headed, whimpering, pathetic,
cliquish SubGenius bookworms pretending like they're actually going to
overthrow the Conspiracy when they can't even make a living? The Church
of "Don" exudes mockery and hatred for J. R. "Bob" Dobbs and his
silly followers, the Church of the SubGenius. Don't get taken in -- it's
just another religion, folks! We follow an infinite hierarchy of
monosyllabically named, male, 50's, pipe-smoking salesmen -- all end-
lessly parodying each other. Art and invention are pointless! The
Church of "Don" doesn't promise you one damn thing, but it will cost
you a dollar!
      
The Church of "Don" -- 8701 Evergreen, Little Rock, Arkansas 72207
       
(c) 1990, Unicorns apathetic about Bob
===========

From: CHIP P. UNICORN     
To: SPELLWIND           
Subject: I'm baaaack!   
Date & Time: 05/19/90 05:39:10
Message Number  4709

....hmmm... why was I the one that was warned about this?...
     
    Uh, welcome back to the, uh, waves. We've, uh, really missed you.
                   C.P.U.
===========

From: CHIP P. UNICORN     
To: SPELLWIND           
Subject: medeival       
Date & Time: 05/19/90 05:41:54
Message Number  4710

Dear Spellwind,
     I'm completely confused.
        1. How, precisely, is Europe censoring broadcasts from the U.S.?
           Also, which "One True Belief" is Europe claiming to broad-
           cast? Last I checked, about half of Europe was Protestant,
           and half was Catholic... 
        2. How could Europe be so closely banded together that it would
           have the power to do such things? Last I checked, they were
           still having problems with economic unity in 1992 -- with
           no plans whatsoever for political unity.
        3. Who, what, or why is Winger?
    I'll be glad to respond once I understand these things.
                 Chip P. Unicorn
===========

From: CHIP P. UNICORN     
To: BLACK MAGIC         
Subject: God...         
Date & Time: 05/19/90 05:46:50
Message Number  4711

Seeing thy smile flitter by mine eyes has made the sun shine ever more
brightly. Thank thee.
              Chip P. Unicorn
===========

From: CHIP P. UNICORN     
To: ACAPULCO            
Subject: Real solutions 
Date & Time: 05/19/90 05:49:46
Message Number  4712

(I'm assuming we're talking about what I call the "first contradiction
of the Bible," no?) I quoted the verses some messages back, but I
would call "shrubs" plants, no? The whole verse I'm referring to is:
     
(Wait a sec... sorry, forgot: Sauron, please abort now. I'm about to
quote a Bible verse, which means I must be prosletizing, no?)
    
    "When the Lord God made the earth and the heavens -- and no shrub
of the field had yet appeared on the earth and no plant of the field
had yet sprung up... the Lord God formed the man from the dust of the
ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man
became a living being."
       
                  (Genesis 2:4b,5,7)
      
     Question: Did God make man before, or after the plants?
                     Chip P. Unicorn
===========

From: CHIP P. UNICORN     
To: TURTLE              
Subject: ---            
Date & Time: 05/19/90 06:02:30
Message Number  4714

:Test Response:
===========

From: CHIP P. UNICORN     
To: TURTLE              
Subject: -System Crash- 
Date & Time: 05/19/90 06:03:47
Message Number  4715

Dear Turle,
    I didn't crash the board once... I crashed it TWICE! 
The Mad System Crasher Strikes Again! <Maniacal laughter...>
                 Chip P. Unicorn
===========

From: SPELLWIND           
To: BLACK MAGIC         
Subject: --             
Date & Time: 05/19/90 07:29:31
Message Number  4716

  I'm great! Haven't heard from you in a while.
===========

From: SPELLWIND           
To: DONTHEN             
Subject: godtalk        
Date & Time: 05/19/90 07:31:20
Message Number  4717

   I think women have a right to be chauvanistic. 
===========

From: SPELLWIND           
To: CHIP P. UNICORN     
Subject: Dude           
Date & Time: 05/19/90 07:36:53
Message Number  4718

    Nonsense! The church of Dude gives no constrictions. Become a disci-
ple of the church of Dude, previously known as the Churc of the NonConf-
ormist Rebels without Causes and lenient judges pleading Insufficient 
evidence.
 
 This has been a public service message from the church of Dude.
===========

From: SPELLWIND           
To: CHIP P. UNICORN     
Subject: Ugh..          
Date & Time: 05/19/90 07:41:37
Message Number  4719

 Why do I open my mouth! Chip always has something strange to comment 
about my rarely serious posts.
 
 kudos to Gorbachev.
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: SAURON              
Subject: They hate...   
Date & Time: 05/19/90 07:55:19
Message Number  4720

Read any good books on statistics with an introduction on relevance
and statistically significant samples?  Also try a book on debate
as you just committed a non-sequitar (sheesh - rank amateurs!)
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: SAURON              
Subject: abuse          
Date & Time: 05/19/90 07:57:57
Message Number  4721

Well, I for one could care less (I have 2 MSDOS machines, an Apple,
several CP/M machines, a couple of Pocket computers) and this is the
crux of a real problem where /les enfant terrible's/ (brats in American)
brag about their hardware (no puns please!).  Hell I'm happy just to 
/have/ computers!!!!  The next problem is one of perception - brats come
in all age groups and it is a disservice to slam them as the progenitors
of your grief in the form of "16 year olds".  Nay!  Brats are much more
universal and pervasive than that!  They would not /dream/ of restrictin
themselves to that peculiar age bracket.
Summary: Lay off the young people as a brunt for your insecurities. If
*you* make a decision then *you* are the only one that must live with it
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: CORWYN OF AMBER     
Subject: Xnty...        
Date & Time: 05/19/90 08:07:17
Message Number  4722

Yeah now *there's* one that Turtle could go for!
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: CORWYN OF AMBER     
Subject: windows        
Date & Time: 05/19/90 08:09:52
Message Number  4723

Have you used Windows???  Man When I start to do a printout from Windows
I go to lunch.  When I get back it *might* be started!!!  (what's really
scary is this is really true!  Graphics printing I have seen take 43
minutes to fire up the laser printer and get on with it).  It is nice
to not have to worry about configuring every single program that you 
install as Windows handles the interfaces.  I haven't seen OS/2 but I 
have heard the screams of pain and being a pussy I stay away.
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: CORWYN OF AMBER     
Subject: Real dips      
Date & Time: 05/19/90 08:13:53
Message Number  4724

Kinda like a balance of power with no "break-even" point.  If you
fall to the left - you have done good if you fall to the right well...
There is no one that is free of "sin"  even the Bible will tell you that
What makes the difference is the state of Grace that you are in.  If you
have accepted Jesus as Lord & Saviour then you are in a state of Grace.
Grace is defined as getting something you really couldn't have "earned"
If you are not in Grace then you are doomed because you had the chance
to listen and believe.  Look at the bright side - you will have company
there whichever side you go to.  I dunno how eternal flames are as far
as being conducive to conversation.....
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: CORWYN OF AMBER     
Subject: Real dips      
Date & Time: 05/19/90 08:19:04
Message Number  4725

You're right - mindless conformance IS disgusting!  However - I believe
that you are overdue for your suicide.   What you say????!!!!
Well - you just stated that if you can't be in control of your own
life then it isn't worth living.  I won't even bother to list the many 
and varied ways that just OUR government has for controlling your life.
God doesn't make you pay your 10 % tithe - Can you opt NOT to pay your 
taxes like a good little boy?  ( I couldn't resist 1 example).
Stop being such an arrogant fool in slamming other's beliefs.  Better
minds than yours have examined the question of God - some agreed and
some disagreed but at least they examined the question with some kind of
systematic plan and did not go about trying to stomp out all the 
pissants in the world that bothered them.  Please note that this does
*NOT*!!!! include idiots that persecuted others in the name of religion
My idea of a healthy mind and attitude is one where words and ideas are
as far as it goes when debating with another over an abstract concept
that has no bearing on anyone but the individual.  I mean it does not 
affect me at all whether you believe or not.  Just as it does not affect
you whether I believe or not.  Leave it at that and quit trying to
instigate your own form of inquisition.
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: DONTHEN             
Subject: 286: Stone Age 
Date & Time: 05/19/90 08:31:05
Message Number  4726

We use 'em because they *are* so cheap!  I can get a 12 Mhz motherboard
for $135 - add a ne1000 network card for $200 and a MetraByte PIO24
card for $150.  Voila!  A 640K machine controller that boots up on the
network where I can have a program written in C or assembler to run a
machine.  I can also do a remote control act with this thing from my
desk or at home.  
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: godtalk        
Date & Time: 05/19/90 08:34:52
Message Number  4727

Ohhhhhh but what about the aliens (benevolent of course) that have been
nuturing our race for eons until we can join the galactic community 
where we can finally realize our potential?  They beam a healing and
health ray at 27.14356 Mhz..  But beware!  They also have a ray that 
brings on signs of senility and can turn entire worlds into slobbering
idiots - this is a broadband ray that covers from about 52 Mhz to over
400 Mhz.  Unfortunately we discovered all to easily how to create a 
device to receive these emanations.
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Real dips      
Date & Time: 05/19/90 08:41:23
Message Number  4728

Actually in the higher levels of Free Masonry they are taught that there
WAS a terrible mistake and that Lucifer - angel of light is the REAL
creator and lord and that Yahweh is a dirty little usurper that will
get his at Armageddon.  Just goes to show that humans will try all
combinations of reality and fiction till they come up with something
that pleases THEM.
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Real beanheads 
Date & Time: 05/19/90 08:44:32
Message Number  4729

Turtle - you are a baaa-baaaad boy.
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: CHIP P. UNICORN     
Subject: Xnty...        
Date & Time: 05/19/90 08:51:37
Message Number  4730

Cat's Cradle -- Also try Still Life with Woodpecker by Tom Robbins
===========

From: BLACK MAGIC         
To: TURTLE              
Subject: God...         
Date & Time: 05/19/90 09:06:50
Message Number  4731

:> :> :> :> >: :> :> :>  Can you figure out which one doesn't belong?
.s
===========

From: RUFUS               
To: ANGEL               
Subject: New crusade    
Date & Time: 05/19/90 10:49:38
Message Number  4732

>The front parts ain't too shabby as well.
 
<Blush> Why thank you ever so much.  You've made my day (even if the
message is 5-6 days late).  BTW, I saw you on TV 2-3 nights ago.  I
began jumping up and down screaming "I know her, I know her."  I'm
easily amused by that TV device.
 
   ...I admit it, I still stick my tongue out whenever I walk by a
video camera in the store.
===========

From: RUFUS               
To: ANGEL               
Subject: What I'm doing.
Date & Time: 05/19/90 11:00:21
Message Number  4733

>Don't you just hate it when one of your creations simply refuses to
>die on cue?
 
I've got your solution.  Put said creation (disks, hardcopies, & little
notes you scribbled on napkins) into a cardboard box.  Tape the box up.
Take the box to the Dunkin' Donuts on Lee Rd. in Orlando.  Wait until
4 a.m., then place the box in the middle of the parking lot.  Set
box on fire and stand back.
 
    ...While your waiting, go inside, harass the manager, eat some 
munchkins.
===========

From: RUFUS               
To: SNAKEBYTE           
Subject: rOAD rALLY.....
Date & Time: 05/19/90 11:05:59
Message Number  4734

Cool story about Bradenton.  I went up there to purchase an RC car
from some guy I knew on the BBS.  Well, his address was something
like 3333 17th St. N.  I found 17th St. W. (or some street that had
a 17 in it), drove down 5 houses, and found the house that had the
EXACT same street #.  I knocked on the door and asked for Scott.  The
lady said Scott wasn't home.  Then she asked if I meant Scott Smith.
Before I go back to bed and confuse everyone even more, I'll some up
what I'm attempting to say.  I was on a street that had the same
# but diffrent direction (W not N), had the same house #, and had
a kid by the same name living there.
===========

From: RUFUS               
To: YNGLING             
Subject: Real dips      
Date & Time: 05/19/90 11:20:55
Message Number  4735

When we see them coming, my dad and I run for cover in the kitchen while
mom deals with them.  Mom's not into high pressure, so she usually
purchases a pamphlet or two.  I love the line "We want to /save/ you,
and it'll only cost you 50 cents."  I did find the article describing
how clean your house/bathroom/armpits/car should be interesting.
Ever since I've thought up fun ways to deal with these people, they 
haven't come around.
===========

From: RUFUS               
To: KEN OBER            
Subject: Real dips      
Date & Time: 05/19/90 11:27:17
Message Number  4736

>A home labotomy would be just as good, and cheaper, too!
 
No no no!  Bungee jumping is the cure to all your problems.  Your
turtle was much happier after his 3-4 jumps (did we get those on
tape?).  Not to mention we amused everyone in the patio area.
 
   ...Remember: If your not bungee jumping, your not bungee jumping.
===========

From: RUFUS               
To: SPELLWIND           
Subject: I'm baaaack!   
Date & Time: 05/19/90 11:30:20
Message Number  4737

>A new and improved human Spellwind!
 
It slices, it dices, it washes the car /and/ watches the kid.  And
best yet, it doesn't require any batteries.  No, it digests it's own
brain.
 
[And now, a Public Service Message:  The Spellwind 2000 has been found
to have one major flaw.  Upon eating the brain unit, the Spellwind 2000
does silly thing like slice the kids, dice the car, and watch food, not
to mention call BBS systems.]
 
Anyways, welcome back to the BBS world.
===========

From: RUFUS               
To: JONBOY              
Subject: abuse          
Date & Time: 05/19/90 11:52:09
Message Number  4738

You mentioned, several hundred messages back, that you had some Apple
magazines you'd be willing to part with.  I never replied because I
was going to in E-mail, but had to hang-up so the Sigh-Sop could use
his own phone line [talk about pushy! :)].  Anyways, what are the
details, and if the price is right, I'll take 'em.  If it's one thing
I need, it's more stuff to clutter up my room.
===========

From: RUFUS               
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Messages       
Date & Time: 05/19/90 11:59:15
Message Number  4739

Turle dude, I just read 200 messages.  And your BBS is double spacing
everything.  Ackk...arggh....yack....yip...beep bop biff bang.
 
   ....The one true way, the way of the bungee!
===========

From: KEN OBER            
To: RUFUS               
Subject: Real dips      
Date & Time: 05/19/90 14:00:37
Message Number  4740

Well, I don't think you got the Bungee jumping turtle on tape...Last
night was the FIRST EVER full screening of the ENTIRE UNEDITED Oasis
tape -- It is about 2 hours, and about 75% we were busy laughing at
interesting things -- I'll have to edit out some boring stuff, tho...
And it looks as if the music video will be REAL LONG ... There will
also be a video for TURTLE CAM IV and DOG CAM I and II .... Anyways,
I'll distribute it to everyone when I finally figure it out!  This
one will take awhile to compile....
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: CHIP P. UNICORN     
Subject: medeival       
Date & Time: 05/19/90 14:50:07
Message Number  4741

>3. Who, or what, is Winger?
 
Winger is an inexplicably popular smurf-metal group without even the
intellectual depth of, say, Bon Jovi. For answers to your other 
questions, you will have to contact a higher authority than I, but
I hope I have in some small way enlightened you at least a little
and made your life a bit less confusing...
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: CHIP P. UNICORN     
Subject: Contradictions 
Date & Time: 05/19/90 14:52:45
Message Number  4742

I really hate to admit this, Chip, but the Biblical verse you cited
doesn't really contain a contradiction. In a rather metaphoric way, I
would say it is simply making the case that God made man before there
was /agriculture,/ not before there were /plants./ (There is a
difference between a plant and a "plant of the field," and frankly
the use of the word "shrub" in that context looks more like an off-the-
cuff translation of some peculiar Hebrew word than like a reference to
a tree standing less than three feet high...) Interpreted that way, the
verse makes perfect sense and fits quite nicely into both the "other"
account of the genesis AND the history of the world as it was known to
the Hebrews...
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: CHIP P. UNICORN     
Subject: -System Crash- 
Date & Time: 05/19/90 14:56:34
Message Number  4743

Well, to be technically correct, the system was crashed by a garphled
sector in the message index file...you just happened to be the person wh
hit it first. Sorry.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SPELLWIND           
Subject: FemTalk (tm)   
Date & Time: 05/19/90 14:57:30
Message Number  4744

>I think women have the right to be chauvanistic.
 
Nobody has the right to be chauvanistic. The "turnabout is fair play"
concept simply doesn't apply here, regardless of how much chauvanism
women have faced in the past. None of it has come from me, and I don't
recognize anybody's rights to behave in a prejudiced fashion toward me
simply because some random male was behaving that way toward her.
You might just as well say "I think blacks have the right to keep
white slaves." It just don't work that way.
                --A non-chauvanistic Turtle who expects a similar
                  courtesy from people who talk to /him/.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: JONBOY              
Subject: They hate...   
Date & Time: 05/19/90 15:01:53
Message Number  4745

>sheesh - rank amateurs!
 
Sauron? A rank amateur? Are you /serious?/ Sauron is a Grand Master
at the art of the non-sequitur!
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: JONBOY              
Subject: New Subject:   
Date & Time: 05/19/90 15:05:57
Message Number  4746

>If you are not in Grace then you are doomed because you had the
>chance to listen and believe.
 
Personally, I would say that that is insufficient as a cause to condemn
someone to Hell simply because /everybody/ gets the chance to "listen
and believe" in, oh, half a dozen different religions on a good day
and God doesn't seem to have provided any evidence that his is better
than any other...but at any rate, that raises a question I have never
received a satisfactory answer to from any Christians I've talked to.
Does an individual who spends his entire life never, ever having heard
of Christianity, Jesus Christ, or any of the other Christian ideas go
to hell for committing the unforgivable sin of ignorance?
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Reality        
Date & Time: 05/19/90 15:12:25
Message Number  4747

>Just goes to show that humans will try all combinations of reality and
>fictiontill they come up with something that pleases THEM.
 
Yes. Trouble is, they believe their fictitious construct as absolutely
as somebody with a different view believes HIS. With no evidence to
support one view over the other, that's kind of inevidable. (Wouldn't
/you/ be surprised if you died and made the discovery that the
Freemasons were right??) Conviction alone--yours, theirs, or a Witch's,
or a Hindu's, or even a Baptist's--is insufficient to establish
validity.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: BLACK MAGIC         
Subject: God...         
Date & Time: 05/19/90 15:17:22
Message Number  4748

>:> :> :> :> >: :> :> :>  Can you figure out which one doesn't belong?
>.s
 
Yes! The ".s"!
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: RUFUS               
Subject: Messages       
Date & Time: 05/19/90 15:20:58
Message Number  4749

>...your BBS is double-spacing everything.
 
Yes, I know. That's because I created a device called *FF in the
operating system's device table, assigned it to a handler called
FORMS, and filtered everything being sent to the device *CL (the
communications line) through the *FF device. I then told the FORMS
driver to add a linefeed to every carriage return it saw, with the
upshot that everything going out to the modem had an extra linefeed
attached to it. Why did I do this? Well, it stems from insecurity...
I wanted to do something that that "other" 8-bit operating system
that's more popular than mine couldn't do. Sorry...I've reset the
*CL device and removed the *FF device, so everything's all better now...
===========

From: SPELLWIND           
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Winger         
Date & Time: 05/19/90 19:22:42
Message Number  4750

   The words Winger and Metal Don't Fit.
===========

From: SPELLWIND           
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Past Lives     
Date & Time: 05/19/90 19:24:36
Message Number  4751

   I'm pretty sure that in my most previous past life I was a female.
 I don't know, I think I'm starting to regress.
===========

From: RAVEN               
To: C.C.A.              
Subject: Real dips      
Date & Time: 05/19/90 21:06:56
Message Number  4752

But there are different levels of worship, and many dieties who are
_far_ from evil.  It is not a choice between "God" and "Satan", but
rather how one lives one's life.  I know people who are atheistic, and
hold to the 'christian' ideals much more than most of the christians I
have met.  One's works are of import, not whether or not one prays to
a specific young and warlike diety.        -R-
===========

From: RAVEN               
To: C.C.A.              
Subject: Real dips      
Date & Time: 05/19/90 21:14:46
Message Number  4753

> Aren't you going to be suprised when you go to hell with him who you
> serve.
 
!!!  Rather harsh this morning, aren't we?
===========

From: RAVEN               
To: SAURON              
Subject: What I'm doing.
Date & Time: 05/19/90 21:18:19
Message Number  4754

Actually Chip does not evangalize (sp?).  I have known him for about 
three years, and not once has he attempted to convert me.  Generally
he only preaches at other fanatics, and then usually to try to calm
them down.  I wish the rest of the 'born-again christian' set were as
open minded and accepting as he is; it would definately make them more
tolerable.
 
                    -R-
===========

From: RAVEN               
To: DELPHI              
Subject: godtalk        
Date & Time: 05/19/90 21:24:41
Message Number  4755

Thank the gods, one of the missing viewpoints is now represented.
===========

From: RAVEN               
To: C.C.A.              
Subject: Waaaay far out 
Date & Time: 05/19/90 21:31:44
Message Number  4756

 same
beliefs could have such amazingly incompatible worldviews...but I
finally understood why that is. They are both churches of Satan.
It says so right here in this Chick tract.)
   Next week: The Pope: Antichrist or jelly donut?
===========

From: RAVEN               
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Real ice cream 
Date & Time: 05/19/90 21:35:04
Message Number  4757

I'll stick with AmigaDOS and Intuition, I think. If you really have to
do the windows-icons-and-mice thing, it might as well be useful--AND
off-shuttable. Besides, I've always wondered what would happen if you
took the trashcan icon from Intuition and dropped it into another
partition's trash can...when you emptied the trash, would the world
end?
===========

From: RAVEN               
To: KEN OBER            
Subject: Real dips      
Date & Time: 05/19/90 21:37:09
Message Number  4758

Can I borrow the bungee turtle?  I just ran across 25 feet of surgical
tubing, and am curious about areodynamics.  :>
===========

From: RAVEN               
To: BLACK MAGIC         
Subject: God...         
Date & Time: 05/19/90 21:52:04
Message Number  4759

Good morning. I know there are some messages from about 2 weeks back
that I haven't responded to, but I can no longer find the printout I
made back then.  Hello, and wat were they?
keep smiling, and give the fifth face a hug from me. -R-
===========

From: RAVEN               
To: RUFUS               
Subject: AARGH          
Date & Time: 05/19/90 21:57:20
Message Number  4760

spw2k - You're playing games with a small object (foodstuff).  Keep it
        up.  :>
===========

From: SPELLWIND           
To: Y'ALL               
Subject: -              
Date & Time: 05/19/90 22:14:02
Message Number  4761

   Dyin' ain't much of a livin' boy.
===========

From: CHIP P. UNICORN     
To: SPELLWIND           
Subject: Ugh..          
Date & Time: 05/19/90 22:40:15
Message Number  4762

Unfortunately, I was being serious...
===========

From: CHIP P. UNICORN     
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Real dips      
Date & Time: 05/19/90 22:41:44
Message Number  4763

>I dunno how eternal flames are as far as being conductive to
>conversation...
       
    Purely from a scientists' viewpoint, I'd love to discover exactly
what's being burned Down There... not only does it break all the laws
of Thermodynamics, but it would make a fantasic basis for a perpetual
motion machine.
                 Irreverently yours.
===========

From: CHIP P. UNICORN     
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Real dips      
Date & Time: 05/19/90 22:45:10
Message Number  4764

Just out of curiosity, what were your sources about the highest levels
of Free Masonry? I'm interested in all sorts of secret societies.
               Chip P. Unicorn
===========

From: CHIP P. UNICORN     
To: BLACK MAGIC         
Subject: God...         
Date & Time: 05/19/90 22:46:19
Message Number  4765

   :>'      - Rev. J. R. "Bob" Dobbs
     
      :o    - "Oh, no Mr. Bill!"
   ':>      - Frenchman with beret
      
       %<   - Out cold
    :!      - Person with cigar
     
                  Chip P. Unicorn
===========

From: CHIP P. UNICORN     
To: RUFUS               
Subject: Real dips      
Date & Time: 05/19/90 22:51:15
Message Number  4766

>Ever since I've thought up fun ways to deal with these people, they
>haven't come around.
       
    Actually, nowadays, each and every true Jehovah's Witness has a
Pagan Deteco-rama (tm). When a J.W. walks by a house, not only will
it say to exactly which level of Hades that person is destined, but
also gives annual income, the Eisenstein Gullibility Factor (tm),
and whether or not they own a rifle.
                   Chip P. Unicorn
===========

From: CHIP P. UNICORN     
To: SPELLWIND           
Subject: Past Lives     
Date & Time: 05/19/90 22:59:06
Message Number  4768

>...in most of my previous life I was a female.
    
    This implies not all of your previous life? Hmm...
     
>I think I'm starting to regress.
       
    It's hapening again? I know many medical doctors who would be 
fascinated to study you.
                   Chip P. Unicorn
===========

From: CHIP P. UNICORN     
To: RAVEN               
Subject: Real dips      
Date & Time: 05/19/90 23:00:50
Message Number  4769

Dear Raven,
    Uhhhhh... I don't agree with the philosophy that a works religion
would save a person. What, precisely, would God's standard be? What if
someone is "just on the line"? What if one comes to the One True Faith
(tm) -- whatever that might be -- on his or her deathbed, when there's
no time to do the "right works"?
   Also, what could we do for God, personally? If She/He/It/They are
outside this world, we can't reach God ourselves. It seems more likely
to me that if there's a "One True Belief," it's dependent on something
other than works.
                    Chip P. Unicorn
===========

From: RUFUS               
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Messages       
Date & Time: 05/19/90 23:47:09
Message Number  4770

>Yes, I know.  Blah blah blah. so everything's all better now...
 
Well, thanks for clearing that up.  I should sleep better tonight.
===========

From: RUFUS               
To: RAVEN               
Subject: Real dips      
Date & Time: 05/19/90 23:49:14
Message Number  4771

25 feet of surgical tubing.  You could make a really large Water 
Weenie (tm).
===========

From: RUFUS               
To: SPELLWIND           
Subject: -              
Date & Time: 05/19/90 23:51:29
Message Number  4772

One O.K. quote deserves another.
 
Happiness is a warm Uzi.
                 -C. Brown.
===========

From: RUFUS               
To: CHIP P. UNICORN     
Subject: Real dips      
Date & Time: 05/19/90 23:53:07
Message Number  4773

>and whether or not they own a rifle.
 
Aha!  That must be it.  That explains it all.  Or could it be the
SAJW missle.  Yes, it's the newest in missle technology.  It will
actually seek out copies of the Watchtower and lock-on to them.
The Surface-to-Jehovah's-Witness, only from Infinity Systems, Inc.
===========

From: DONTHEN             
To: CHIP P. UNICORN     
Subject: Jim Henson     
Date & Time: 05/20/90 02:00:25
Message Number  4774

Sammy Davis, Jr., I won't miss all that much, and Lithuania will end up
getting by.  Jim Henson, I'll miss.  Anybody who can take a sock puppet
and make a successful career out of it--entertaining people and having
a hell of a lot of fun along the way--is as close to a role model for me
as I'll ever get.
===========

From: CORWYN OF AMBER     
To: TURTLE              
Subject: IBMs           
Date & Time: 05/20/90 02:37:51
Message Number  4775

I refuse to admit any responsibility for, or accept any similarity of 
my opinions and IBM's advertising schemes and my attitudes. I think
there are some good ideas in the Macintosh, I simply despise the 
"proprietary" mentality, and think that Apple is taking the credit for
Xerox's innovations.
 
                         - Corwyn
===========

From: CORWYN OF AMBER     
To: JONBOY              
Subject: windows        
Date & Time: 05/20/90 02:47:42
Message Number  4776

Yeah, I've used Windows... as a matter of a fact, I printed out a 
document from Pagemaker to a Epson RX-80 on an 8mhz XT.. Microsoft
/really/ has to work on thier print routines. I've heard however, if you
use PrintCache (formerly LaserTorq) that you can actually reach reason-
able print speeds. (It also lets you print most full page graphics on a
512K Laserjet) By the way.. if you have a laser printer, Disable the 
print spooler /now/ 98% of the time, the print job takes MUCH longer
when it is enabled. I want to see Windows 3.0 and Pagemaker 4.0, 
hopefully this will solve a /lot/ of the current problems.
 
                         - Corwyn
===========

From: CORWYN OF AMBER     
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Real dips      
Date & Time: 05/20/90 02:53:24
Message Number  4777

   1. While not incredibly arrogant.. I don't think you know enough 
       about my mind to tell me whether "better minds than [mine]" have
       pondered this problem.
 
   2. I have a fairly high level of tolerance for other's beliefs, and I
       enjoy intelligent conversations, I simply get fed up with people
       who continue to claim that they are absolutely and obviously 
       correct, I did not do so, I simply expressed exasperation with
       a continuance of unsubstantiated claims.
 
  Inquisition? I hardly think so, I'm just requesting that if someone is
going to spout his beleifs, that he at /least/ attempt to substantiate 
them in some way.
 
                         - Corwyn
===========

From: SPELLWIND           
To: CHIP P. UNICORN     
Subject: Ugh..          
Date & Time: 05/20/90 07:30:24
Message Number  4778

  Who can tell with you, dude? Party on.
===========

From: SPELLWIND           
To: CHIP P. UNICORN     
Subject: Masons         
Date & Time: 05/20/90 07:31:26
Message Number  4779

   My father was a mason. 32nd or 33rd level, unfortunalely he was an
alcoholic with diabetes, disability, and a heart condition and now he's
dead. 
===========

From: SPELLWIND           
To: CHIP P. UNICORN     
Subject: God...         
Date & Time: 05/20/90 07:35:33
Message Number  4780

 
  /|:|    Serviceman
===========

From: SPELLWIND           
To: CHIP P. UNICORN     
Subject: Real dips      
Date & Time: 05/20/90 07:37:56
Message Number  4781

   She didn't detect me!
===========

From: SPELLWIND           
To: CHIP P. UNICORN     
Subject: Past Lives     
Date & Time: 05/20/90 07:38:48
Message Number  4782

   I said in my most previous life.
===========

From: SPELLWIND           
To: RUFUS               
Subject: -              
Date & Time: 05/20/90 07:40:27
Message Number  4783

   
  Go ahead, make my day.
 
  Another one from Clint.
===========

From: SPELLWIND           
To: DONTHEN             
Subject: Bill & Ted     
Date & Time: 05/20/90 07:42:47
Message Number  4784

   My role models are:
 
    Bill & Ted, Jason, Clint, Tom Savini (FX Master Extrordinaire), 
 Richard Nixon (best ever president), Metallica (Responsible for my 
enviornmental concern), Michaelangelo and Raphael, William Shatner, Bill
Richardson (Calvin & Hobbes artist), and any woman making over 150 g's.
 
   Oh, Turtle and Donthen are my role models too, but they're basically
the same as Bill & Ted.
 
                           A tolally dizzy Spellwind Dude.
===========

From: DONTHEN             
To: CORWYN OF AMBER     
Subject: windows        
Date & Time: 05/20/90 14:52:48
Message Number  4785

I don't hold out much hope for Windows 3.0 simply because I've given up
hoping anybody at Microsoft knows how to program.  If the IBM version of
PageMaker 4 fixes any of the "problems" with PM3 (I've never used it,
but I've been told that it very much wants to be running with PostScript
like the Mac PM requires), it'll be in spite of its operating
environment.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SPELLWIND           
Subject: Winger         
Date & Time: 05/20/90 15:55:41
Message Number  4786

>The words Winger and Metal Don't Fit.
 
That's precisely my point.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: RAVEN               
Subject: Real ice cream 
Date & Time: 05/20/90 16:01:06
Message Number  4787

>AAAAAARGH! You're being wierd.
 
Actually, I'm being weird, but that's OK. Weirdness is just another
small step on the road to Slack. And what could be weirder than
following a pipe-smoking middle aged salesman? The road to Slack is
paved with weirdness, and your trip can be financed with easy payments.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: CHIP P. UNICORN     
Subject: Real dips      
Date & Time: 05/20/90 16:08:10
Message Number  4788

>I don't agree with the philosophy that works save a person.
 
That, my friend, is a fundamental problem with Christianity. While it
claims to have a code of morality associated with it,. Christianity
doesn't really hold its adherents to any standard of behavior in
particular--after all, the only thing which "saves" one is faith in
Jesus, and everything else is irrelevant. From a Christian viewpoint
it is very easy to see someone like Adolf Hitler making it into Heaven
by virtue of a last-minute conversion (assuming he were sufficiently
sincere, of course), while a pagan who spends his entire life working
selflessly for the good of other people is condemned to Hell for his
sins. I don't buy it.
   It also doesn't help that the Judeo-Christian value system isn't
terribly sophisticated to begin with--at least not sophisticated
enough to meet the demands of an industrial and technological
civilization. There is nothing "immoral" to a Christian in raping the
earth, dumping filth into the air, piling garbage wherever is
most convenient. To a Wiccan, who follows a much more highly developed
sense of standards, all these activities are gravely immoral.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: RUFUS               
Subject: SAJW & You     
Date & Time: 05/20/90 16:15:34
Message Number  4789

Hey, Rufus, if you'd like I can get you a subscription to the
Watchtower... If you ask /really/ nicely, I may even get you both
the Watchtower and the Plain Truth. (You wouldn't think that two
fundamentalist orgranizations which claim to subscribe to the same
beliefs could have such amazingly incompatible worldviews...but I
finally understood why that is. They are both churches of Satan.
It says so right here in this Chick tract.)
   Next week: The Pope: Antichrist or jelly donut?
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: CORWYN OF AMBER     
Subject: IBMs           
Date & Time: 05/20/90 16:19:12
Message Number  4790

I'll stick with AmigaDOS and Intuition, I think. If you really have to
do the windows-icons-and-mice thing, it might as well be useful--AND
off-shuttable. Besides, I've always wondered what would happen if you
took the trashcan icon from Intuition and dropped it into another
partition's trash can...when you emptied the trash, would the world
end?
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SPELLWIND           
Subject: Bill & Ted     
Date & Time: 05/20/90 16:22:41
Message Number  4791

>   Oh, Turtle and Donthen are my role models too, but they're basically
>the same as Bill & Ted.
>
>                           A tolally dizzy Spellwind Dude.
 
Dude!
===========

From: ANGEL               
To: TURTLE              
Subject: dirt, she says?
Date & Time: 05/20/90 16:26:41
Message Number  4792

Yes, dear hacker Turtle (and damn proud of it!)  You and I and most
everyone else in this BBS community knows the difference between
a hacker and a punk theif.  Alas, the rest of the world does not.
===========

From: ANGEL               
To: RUFUS               
Subject: New crusade    
Date & Time: 05/20/90 17:05:06
Message Number  4793

Amazing the number of folk who saw that silly promo on Channel 40.
Seems I had a large audience watching me throw my skirts over my head.
===========

From: ANGEL               
To: RUFUS               
Subject: What I'm doing.
Date & Time: 05/20/90 17:06:58
Message Number  4794

Gee, I didn't realize a trip to a Donut shop in Orlando was necessary
for charactercide.  I'll have to remember that (do they have angelcreme
filled donuts there?  That's my favorite.)
===========

From: SPELLWIND           
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Real dips      
Date & Time: 05/20/90 17:48:05
Message Number  4795

   Hell yeah it's immoral.Not only am I looking out for my kids, I don't
want to wear an ozygen mask myself. I only have one problem with recyc-
ling, I have a ton of cans and paper with nowhere to take them.
 
 It may not look like it'll hurt bad in this lifetime,but if you don't 
do something, it gets worse! I saw a advertisement on TV yesterday for
'waste management' which means more landfills and burning. Everything
going on in this world directly affects you.
===========

From: SPELLWIND           
To: TURTLE              
Subject: SAJW & You     
Date & Time: 05/20/90 17:53:47
Message Number  4796

  Give him the plain truth on europe.  They're preaching now that the 
united europe will be the last empire of satan.
===========

From: SPELLWIND           
To: TURTLE              
Subject: SAJW & You     
Date & Time: 05/20/90 17:55:23
Message Number  4797

    You notice the other 'empires' were all of another religion, don't 
you? Babylon, Greece, Rome... Christianity is one of the few religions
that claims to be the one truth and not even accept beleif of other 
religions. The only religion(s) I disbeleive are all Judeo/Christian
myths.
===========

From: SPELLWIND           
To: TOITLE              
Subject: Party          
Date & Time: 05/20/90 18:01:48
Message Number  4798

   The Alter Reality gang needs to have a party soon.
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: CORWYN OF AMBER     
Subject: IBMs           
Date & Time: 05/20/90 18:24:32
Message Number  4799

Yah my laptop boots fairly fast (still a pokey thing)  I'm referring
to AFTER it's done the systems checks and the RAM chsck and it just
sits there like a lump.
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Deal           
Date & Time: 05/20/90 18:29:14
Message Number  4800

Beats the shit outta me - I gave ya all the names I had and these are
*bare* boards.  The RAM card shouldn't be too tuff....
===========