informis
/
textfiles
1
0
Fork 0
Code Issues Pull Requests Packages Projects Releases Wiki Activity
textfiles/messages/ALANWESTON/1990/os908_11.txt

3914 lines
133 KiB
Plaintext
Raw Permalink Blame History

30947 28-JUL 18:09 General Information
ar, os9arc-dearc, pak
From: XLIONX To: RAGTIMER
Howdy Mike,
Here is a list of sizes from ar, os9arc and pak for rondo.ume: rondo.ume = 27533
bytes rondo.ar = 15132 " rondo.arc = 13827 " rondo.pak = 16539 "
I don't think most folks with 2400 baud systems and hard drives think about a
few extra k-bytes. What about the people with floppy only and/or 300/600/1200
baud systems?
The shorter the file, the less chance there is for line noise (or spouses
picking the phone up) to loose the transfer in mid-stream. It "costs" less.
Pak and Os9Arc are both immune to last-block-padding.
I'll try to upload in the the next smallest format (ar/pak) as well as .arc in
the future...
Look for rondo.ar soon in the NEW-base.
-Mark W. Farrell -XLIONX (DELPHI) -SIGOp ProSIG (Pinball Haven RIBBS (708)
426-8445) -mwf@SANDV
-*-
31072 5-AUG 00:43 General Information
RE: ar, os9arc-dearc, pak (Re: Msg 30947)
From: RAGTIMER To: XLIONX
OK thanks -- at least AR beats out PAK by a few percent. PAK used to have a
serious problem with trailing padding -- maybe that's been fixed. But one
reason I avoid PAK'ed files is that there a multipe verisions of PAK floating
around, and their files are naot compatible. So I stick with AR. ASAnd will
look for ROndo in that format, tho I think I already DL'ed in in OS9ar
form....have to check on that.
-*-
31143 10-AUG 02:21 General Information
RE: ar, os9arc-dearc, pak (Re: Msg 30947)
From: TIMKIENTZLE To: XLIONX (NR)
Hmmm... Last I heard, PAK still choked on files with more than a little padding
on them. The only problem AR has with padding is that it tells you it's there.
Maybe that error message it spits out should be re-worded so people don't freak
out about it. Hmmm...
- Tim
P.S. Found out that AR does handle archiving subdirectories reasonably. It will
build missing directories and such when it dearchives.
-*-
End of Thread.
-*-
30948 28-JUL 18:54 General Information
RE: Shell+ (Re: Msg 30942)
From: EDDIEKUNS To: GREGL
Perhaps the (request+3)/4+1 does what it does to divide by 4, rounding up, to
pass to some system call? (But memory isn't allocated by WORDS, is it?) How
much overhead is involved in a malloc()? Ah, I should look at the code and see
for myself!
Eddie
-*-
30964 29-JUL 04:12 General Information
RE: Shell+ (Re: Msg 30948)
From: GREGL To: EDDIEKUNS
The overhead involved includes a 2-byte chain pointer and a 2-byte size for each
request. There is a third variable, but I don't think it is stored in the chain.
At the moment I'm miffed why it divides the requested size by 4 unless some
other function or routine is multiplying by 4. I can see why the memory request
is converted into 256-byte blocks when passed to sbrk() but not this little
magical hootenany.
-- Greg
-*-
31071 5-AUG 00:39 General Information
RE: Shell+ (Re: Msg 30942)
From: RAGTIMER To: GREGL
Adding N-1 and then dividing by N is a good way to make sure the divide rounds
upward instead of truncating. Maybe they want the free mem to be aligned on
32-bit boundaries. Yes, that's it -- K&R guaranteses that malloc() stuff is
safe for any }i natuaral C type, including long ints. Well, here not double
floats, which need 8 bytes, but hey, they tried.... Dunna why the extra byute is
added after the divide. --mike k
-*-
End of Thread.
-*-
30949 28-JUL 18:55 Utilities
RE: ed (Re: Msg 30919)
From: DODGECOLT To: AARONS
I take it you have a monochrome monitor? I am pretty sure that you should be
able to see it anyway... Well, you _can_ change the palette for color # 5
(YELLOW by default) to something else. The background color that is used is
BLACK, so there shouldn't be a problem. You can change the current palette
settings for a window by typing the following in a shell in the window you are
editing in. (God, that sounds strange. Call up a shell from the FILE menu.
That will do the trick.)
OS9: display 1b 31 5 3f 1b 31 d 3f
This will set the text color to WHITE instead of YELLOW. Hope this helps!
-Mike
-*-
30950 28-JUL 18:56 General Information
RE: Buyer BEWARE (Re: Msg 30909)
From: EDDIEKUNS To: MPASSER
Wow. That's frightening information! It's kinda scary to think about how easy
it is to make a life history of a person, cataloging their buys and purchasing
habits, and so on.
Eddie
-*-
31075 5-AUG 02:38 General Information
RE: Buyer BEWARE (Re: Msg 30950)
From: BACKFIRE To: ALL
Give them your work telephone number. If they want to verify your credit-
worthiness, that should be more useful. If they're building a database for
harrassing phone calls, etc, they can talk to your boss or secretary or
co-workers, etc (this really is nice if you work for the government, or a car
dealer, or a funeral home!).
-*-
End of Thread.
-*-
30951 28-JUL 18:58 Utilities
RE: ed (Re: Msg 30921)
From: DODGECOLT To: AARONS
OK, Ed doesn't use the current window colors.... This is a 'feature' which has
been eliminated in newer versions. The top line is supposed to be RED, with BLUE
letters. The first letter of each menu name is WHITE. If you want to change the
colors, you will have to change the palette settings for each of those
colors.... Both background and foreground palettes, too!
-Mike
-*-
30952 28-JUL 21:16 General Information
POLL
From: MRGOOD To: DICKWHITE
The other day, I set up a poll (MM1 or TC70). I allowed additions to the voting
items. Someone added some items, but several ended up as gibberish. Are you the
person who would take care of this?
Hugo
-*-
31066 4-AUG 13:16 General Information
RE: POLL (Re: Msg 30952)
From: DICKWHITE To: MRGOOD
I am the person to try to take care of gibberish, but something in my memory
suggests that we have not been able to edit polls. I will look into what can be
done. BTW, I thought that was a particularly appropriate poll and will be
following how much acti on it gets and the drift of the voting. My suspicion is
that MM1 will come ouit well ahead.
Dick
-*-
31088 5-AUG 17:03 General Information
RE: POLL (Re: Msg 31066)
From: MRGOOD To: DICKWHITE
Looks like people continue putting in some convoluted choices. I should have
made the poll with just a couple of simple choices. Give people freedom, and
look what happens!
Hugo
PS. Yup, it does seem like a fairly active poll question.
-*-
End of Thread.
-*-
30953 28-JUL 23:11 General Information
RE: Kings Quest (Re: Msg 30913)
From: RADICAL To: ZACKSESSIONS
Thanks. I never got around to getting LSL. Other things keep moving to the top
of my priority list. I'll ask on the forum. Len
-*-
31057 4-AUG 02:56 General Information
RE: Kings Quest (Re: Msg 30953)
From: WAYNELAIRD To: RADICAL
hi rad, there is a KQIII file running around somewhere in the northern bbses for
KQIII but if you can stand the long distance call, its on Terriasanta bbs @ 1-
619-5607659, brian stewart, sysop on a coco3. Lots of online games too. tell him
i sent ya. best, wayne
-*-
End of Thread.
-*-
30954 28-JUL 23:13 Programmers Den
RE: Speeding up the coco3 (Re: Msg 30758)
From: DSRTFOX To: TIMKOONCE (NR)
The 80286 speedup cards used on XT machines are actually "in circuit emulators"
(ICE) as they replace the functions (emulate) of the 8088 with the 80286. Of
course that is easier, as the two chips are downwardly compatible. Would be
harder to do with a 680 00, but quite possible with the TC9...but I don't think
.5MHz is enough of a speed up for the cost. The board would have to plug into
the 6809 socket but have it's own independant clock circuit....gee that sounds
easy! I understand the theory but couldn't begin to implement it! Hell, try
doing like the fast AT machine...heat sink the TC9 and run it at 3-4MHz! That
would be worth the board price! (probably wouldn't need the sink...a friend of
mine ran his old model CC2 at the 3x poke constantly to generate M endledrot
paterns from a BASIC program he wrote. The thing would run for up to 24 hrs at a
time to generate the patterns. Video wouldn't keep up, so he cut it off until
ready to view. The thing would auto save when done!)
-*-
31033 1-AUG 22:39 Programmers Den
RE: Speeding up the coco3 (Re: Msg 30874)
From: NES To: PKW (NR)
Paul, As I talk a wail back with Mark Sheffield, I think you should offer some
sort of financing, most coco users are that do to the coco's low price. I and
other's could put and MM/1 on the MC or visa but may not wount to tie up there
card, I use the RSVP (radio shack) for most of my computer purchases. And the
payments should start at about the $25 to $50 per month as radio shack dose.
Second most users are waiting to see what the MM/1 will look like. hope you
dont wait to long to put it in one of your add's, ie you could end you like the
infinity car add(lots of hipe but didnt show the car) cost the in sales.
Also waiting to see what kinda software will be avible for it. I am realy
excited about the MM/1, but I have not heard any up date's in a month or so.
Lets us hear what's going on??? Eric Stringer <NES>
-*-
31106 7-AUG 03:45 Programmers Den
RE: Speeding up the coco3 (Re: Msg 30954)
From: BRIANWHITE To: DSRTFOX
Sorry, to dissapoint you, but there never was a 3x speedup poke. That poke is
the same double-speed poke that the CoCo3 uses now. The 65495 just went into
double speed while accessing the basic ROM's. The 65497 poke goes into double
speed at all times. Before the CoCo3, however, the video couldn't keep up.
Brian
-*-
31134 9-AUG 23:15 Programmers Den
RE: Speeding up the coco3 (Re: Msg 31106)
From: DSRTFOX To: BRIANWHITE
No disappointment, just enlightenment! The assumption was 3x, since it was
obviously faster than the "normal" 2x poke. I wish I had the knowledge to stick
a 6809 on a duaghter board and run it at say 4MHz with a heat sink. It
It would insert in the existing 6809 socket but have a separate clock chip.
Could this be done simply by having a separate clock? I would assume it would
somehow have to be timed or "coordinated with" the rest of the bus running at
the slower speed. A way to switch down to normal or 2x would also be necessary,
I suppose. Oh well, the project was to much for me before I started talking it
into something this complicated! One of you hardware geniuses will have ti
tinker with that idea (if the IBMers can do a n 80286 speedup board why can't we
do it with the same chip? I know the chips not rated over 2MHz, or the Hitachi
over 3MHz, but they will run reliably faster!)
-*-
End of Thread.
-*-
30955 29-JUL 00:23 General Information
RE: Stuff (Re: Msg 27368)
From: RANDYADER To: MIKEHAALAND
Naw - not PRISM. Thats a full color copier made by SAVIN and COLOROCS. Nice
machine but a bit bulky.
How about "COCO 4 - The Next Generation" ha ha ha
know wherre my head is today
Randy
-*-
30956 29-JUL 02:16 General Information
RE: Alias (Re: Msg 30844)
From: BRIANWHITE To: EDDIEKUNS
Eddie,
The best way I can see to solve all the history problems would be to allow a
program to load the SCF "last-line" buffer and a way to read the next key
without removing it from the buffer. Then the shell could keep its own history.
It would check for an up/down arrow key, load the SCF buffer with the correct
last line, and display it on the screen. Another up/down arrow would advance to
the next line which would be loaded into the SCF buffer and displayed. Then, as
soon as a non-up/down arrow key were pressed, the shell would do a I$ReadLn and
SCF, because the shell loaded the last-line buffer with the history line it
wanted, could edit that line before the user pressed <Enter>. Voila: instant
history with editing... without leaving SCF!
I didn't know that UNIX allowed multiple groups. That's kind of a neat idea!
Too bad we didn't have 3 more bits for group attributes and 2 bytes for group
number. The OSk method of groups is passable, though not as good as true
groups, but it does limit the number of users to 256 before un-authorized access
to files becomes possible because of repeated LSByte of the user number.
----- You know... With a little bit of patching, I suppose it would be possible
to limit the number of file segments to 47 and use the last 5 bytes of the file
descriptor sector for group information stuff. Then, the full user number could
be patched back into the original two bytes (like OS-9)! That would give 16-bit
user number in the same place OS-9 keeps it, a 16-bit group number, a 3-bit
group attribute, and 21 bits remaining for other stuff. And, compatibility
problems would be close to nil! User numbers would have to be changed anyways
and the only way the new segment limit of 47 would cause a problem was if a
48-segment file from an un-patched system was read (an EXTREMELY unlikely
situation). -----
I've passed the above paragraph on to several people I thought might be able to
implement such a patch, but if anyone has any more people in mind, please pass
the idea around... It would be nice to see someone who helped port the OSk
kernal take up the patch and make it an actual part of the OS instead of a patch
that can be implemented. Then Scott Griepentrog (from the OSKer) could retract
his statements about the way OSk handles groups!
Brian
-*-
30969 29-JUL 16:15 General Information
RE: Alias (Re: Msg 30956)
From: EDDIEKUNS To: BRIANWHITE
As long as someone is patching the kernal... it would be nice if the last 5-byte
LSN/length in the segment list would point to a sector containing another
collection of segment lists! Then there's no limit to the fragmentation
allowed! (Hmmm ... is this a good thing?) Maybe we should take one of the
unused "media type" bits (ie: dmode typ) and set it to indicate it uses this
scheme. (Last 2 entries in segment list are special as above) and if the bit is
not set, then the group defaults to 0 for all files (or perhaps just as in
standard OSk, in the top 1/2 of user #) and files are limited to 47 segments.
Of course, this makes the disk driver LONGER. But more functional.
Hey, if the last segment list entry points to the next sector containing more
segment list entries ... then we only need 3 bytes of that 5-byte entry for the
pointer, leaving 2 free bytes. How about we put the group in one byte (leaving
user ID's the range 0-65535 ... I can't imagine needing > 256 groups in any
case, as on the mainframes at work with literally hundreds of users, I don't
think they have more than a couple dozen groups ... if that many.) And one more
byte for attributes, of which three belong to the group attributes. Hmm ...
what other 5 attributes can we assign?
Eddie
-*-
31109 7-AUG 03:45 General Information
RE: Alias (Re: Msg 30969)
From: BRIANWHITE To: EDDIEKUNS (NR)
Eddie,
I suppose using 3 of the last 5 bytes as a pointer to an extension of the
segment list would be possible, but is it really necessary? I have never out-
grown the segment list and the only time I have ever heard of it happening was
when two file convert programs "leap-frogged" their sectors because the sector
allocation size was set to 1.
Besides, I found that once a file gets to about 20 segments, loading/saving just
takes too long. I would then link the files to my TEMP directory and then copy
them back to the original diretory since copy creates only unfragmented files.
I was thinking about more attribute bits, though. How about "hidden"? I don't
mean hidden the way Messy-Dos does it where the only way to see the file is with
a disk editor, but more the way UNiX does it where a special option to the 'dir'
command would show it. Another one (stolen from messy-dos) is an "archived"
attribute. If this bit is set, then this file has been backed up. If not set,
then back it up.
Actually, I take both of those back. The "hidden" wouldn't work because 'dir'
only checks that sector when doing a "dir -e". And the "archived" would require
the system to clear that bit whenever the file was modified (more OS patches).
Brian
-*-
End of Thread.
-*-
30957 29-JUL 02:16 General Information
Group attributes
From: BRIANWHITE To: GREGL
Greg,
I was talking to Eddit Kuns about group attributes and had an idea about how to
solve the problems. Below is the paragraph as I posted it in his message:
----- You know... With a little bit of patching, I suppose it would be possible
to limit the number of file segments to 47 and use the last 5 bytes of the file
descriptor sector for group information stuff. Then, the full user number could
be patched back into the original two bytes (like OS-9)! That would give 16-bit
user number in the same place OS-9 keeps it, a 16-bit group number, a 3-bit
group attribute, and 21 bits at the end of the sector remaining for other stuff.
And, compatibility problems would be close to nil! User numbers would have to
be changed anyways and the only way the new segment limit of 47 would cause a
problem was if a 48-segment file from an un-patched system was read (an
EXTREMELY unlikely situation). -----
I've passed the above paragraph on to several people I thought might be able to
implement such a patch, but if anyone has any more people in mind, please pass
the idea around... It would be nice to see someone who helped port the OSk
kernal take up the patch and make it an actual part of the OS instead of a patch
that can be implemented. Then Scott Griepentrog (from the OSKer) could retract
his statements about the way OSk handles groups!
Brian
-*-
30958 29-JUL 02:17 General Information
RE: CP (Re: Msg 30870)
From: BRIANWHITE To: KNOT1
Jamie,
How does "cp" handle files larger that 56k in length?
Brian
-*-
30980 30-JUL 02:54 General Information
RE: CP (Re: Msg 30958)
From: KNOT1 To: BRIANWHITE
Brian,
The "cp" program pre-extends the file first (if its length is > 0), seeks to the
start again, and then it will read the source and write to the destination in
"chunks" of up to 48K minus the normal data size, or about 46K. The extra 8K
would increase those "chunks" to about 54K is all.
-Jamie (KNOT1)-
-*-
End of Thread.
-*-
30959 29-JUL 02:17 General Information
RE: GFX2 & MM/1 (Re: Msg 30906)
From: BRIANWHITE To: KENHALTER
Ken,
I can't really say if only the 6800 family has its clock done this way. Sorry.
Brian
-*-
30960 29-JUL 02:17 General Information
RE: GFX2 & MM/1 (Re: Msg 30907)
From: BRIANWHITE To: MATHOMPSON
Matt,
It doesn't surprise me that you decided to jump on my message. After all,
you're the one who explained it to me in the first place. But..... I think I
gotcha on this one!
First, having two clocks 90 degrees out of phase does give four (4) distinct
regions of the clock cycle. Can't argue that. Draw it out on paper if you
don't believe me. Thus, 1.79 x 4 = 7.16 MHz.
Second, you're bit about hard wiring is not correct according to what I learned
in my computers class last semester. Even hard wired devices have a ROM-like
array that signals all of the actions of the processor. And, amazingly enough,
all processor actions required 4 (sometimes 3, but usually 4) clock periods to
do its stuff. Instruction fetch took 4 clock periods. Read from memory took 4
clock periods. Etc., etc. Now, I have not ruled out the possibility that I am
wrong about this, but I really doubt it. I specifically went to my prefessor
and asked for an explanation as to why with his "hard-wired" CPU everything took
4 clock periods and my 6809 only took one. Right away he asked "Is there
another clock or something that could also be used by the CPU internally?"
Well, there is.
As for the 68020+, I lent my 030 manual to Joe Chen, so I couldn't look that up.
Keep in mind, though, that the 020+ has things like cache, burst read,
pipelining, etc. That'll really screw up any timing calculations.
Nice to see ya reading to forum... Hope to hear from you again soon!
Brian
-*-
30965 29-JUL 04:27 General Information
RE: GFX2 & MM/1 (Re: Msg 30960)
From: GREGL To: BRIANWHITE
I think most of what you are saying is true. Of course, I've never designed a
microprocessor chip but your estimations seem to fit. And as far as the 68020+
and 80386 processors go, you can just about forget counting clock cycles. These
processors are designed with an instruction prefetch stage that implements
instruction caching as well as the ability to function as an entirely separate
phase from the rest of the chip. That is, these processors can fetch
instructions while the other sections are decoding and executing.
The general flow of control is for the instruction prefetch to get an
instruction from memory (usually a fast memory cache) and pass it to the
instruction cache. The instruction decoder fetches the instruction from the
cache and passes it to the execution unit. Once executed, the results are passed
to the other sections and eventually make it back to memory as needed. On the
older processors, all of these events occured on particular edges of the system
clock. On the 68020 and 80386, all of these events are occuring simultaneously
as each stage is acting as an individual instead of a team player.
-- Greg
-*-
30966 29-JUL 07:38 General Information
RE: GFX2 & MM/1 (Re: Msg 30960)
From: MATHOMPSON To: BRIANWHITE
Hey buddy,
You know I never jump on people's messages. As a person whose JOB it is to
design and debug 386/486 & 020/030 boards for packet network switches, I was
speaking with some experience. First, using your same reasoning about "distinct"
clock regions, by the same token it could be argued that thus a "8 MHz" 8088 has
2x8 MHz = 16 MHz of distinct clock regions, and yet it is just as fast as a
"7.16 MHz" 6809. Also, note that my quoted clock speeds for the 020/030/386/486
was the main clock frequency. That is, a 33MHz 386 machine actually has a
crystal frequency of 66MHz. Technically, you could argue that a bus cycle
really was four cycles of this 66MHz, but since intel and Moto prefer to brag
about the main frequency (33MHz), a bus cycle only takes two. Also note that no
matter what arguments are used about prefetch and caching, a bus cycle is ALWAYS
the same (except when accessing slower devices such as peripheral chips, etc.).
Of course prefetch and caching make hand timing of code impossible. However, I
have seen 020/030/386/486 assemblers that can accurately guess the number of
clock cycles for a given program, both as a one-pass check and as a dynamic
temulation. At any rate, the 020/030 & 386/486 have so many tricks up their
sleeves to speed them up, who gives a darn about exact clock cycles these days.
Also, the 6809 uses ROM to decode the instruction, and probably to route the
data to the correct ALU. But each ALU is hardwired to do what it does, whereas
the 020/030 & Intel have a generic one that does everything. I read this in a
book for a universal emualtor we have at work. It supports ALL Intel & Moto
CPUs, as well as Zilog, AMD, etc.
Of course, everyone knows the REAL reason the 6809 is inherently faster and
better than an 8088 is because of the simple fact that the 8088 is made by
Intel, whereas the 6809 is made by Motorola! ;-)
- Matt
-*-
30998 31-JUL 00:19 General Information
RE: GFX2 & MM/1 (Re: Msg 30966)
From: BUDDCAR To: MATHOMPSON
Just to muddy the waters further - There is a difference in the number of clock
cycles used per instruction on the 68030 vs the 68020 vs the 68000 and this is
by design since that is where at least some of the speedup occurrs. There has
been much made of late about the dis/advantages of microcoded instruction decode
versus the vaunted high speed RISC (hard wired usually) architecture but there
are some pretty fast micro code decoders out there. It sure does get confusing
though when comparing machines which read memory in one clock cycle versus one
which takes 4 or more. I used to maintain a Honeywell 516 which, although it had
a 1 mhz clock oscillator divided that up into 4 or more states through a delay
line so it could do much more than you would expect based on raw clock
frequency. But then - with clock speed such an advertizing gimmick I wouldn't
hold my breath for a machine which used suck tricks today. They would probably
count each cycle subdivision as a "clock" just to look good in the speed column
of comparison reports. sheesh!
-*-
31104 7-AUG 01:28 General Information
RE: GFX2 & MM/1 (Re: Msg 30998)
From: KENHALTER To: ALL
Then how the heck do you program a fixed time length delay?
Seems like trial and error would be the only way.
Ken Halter
-*-
31107 7-AUG 03:45 General Information
RE: GFX2 & MM/1 (Re: Msg 30965)
From: BRIANWHITE To: GREGL
Greg,
Yea, I really enjoyed my class when it covered CPU designs (we don't build one
'til this term and then I think it's a 4-bit thingy). University is such fun...
You didn't say anything about my idea of using the last 5 bytes of the file
descriptor sector for group attributes, etc. What did you think?
Brian
-*-
31108 7-AUG 03:45 General Information
RE: GFX2 & MM/1 (Re: Msg 30966)
From: BRIANWHITE To: MATHOMPSON
Matt,
That's true. I hadn't thought about the 68000 using both distinct regions of
it's clock cycle. I guess that's because in our class we always used only the
rising edge of the clock. I figured that any CPU that went trough the trouble
of combining two separate clocks might as well use all edges for triggering.
Still, even with that, it does not change the fact that many instructions on the
68000/68008/68010 and thus, presumably, the 68070 take exactly four (4) times as
many clock periods as the 6809 does clock cycles and that my Motorola 68000 book
defines a "clock cycle" as being four (4) "clock periods".
I won't argue anything about the 68020+/386+ because thay are two wonderful
/wierd (respectively :) to speculate about!
Brian
-*-
31113 7-AUG 07:10 General Information
RE: GFX2 & MM/1 (Re: Msg 31108)
From: MATHOMPSON To: BRIANWHITE
Hi Bri,
Actually, I never mentioned the 68000/8/10 in my clock cycle discussion
as
having only 2 clock cycles per bus cycle. I was referring only to 386/030 etc.
Yes, the 68000/8/10/70 are all four clock cycles of the frequency most commonly
cited in ads, etc (1/4 of 15MHz, even if the xtal frequency is more). As for
the 68070, the number of clock cycles per instruction is totally variable and is
not a multiple of the bus cycle time in any way. Basically the MPU and the bus
controller of the 070 are seperate. A MOVE has a base time of 7 clock cycles,
with up to 45 more depending on the
How does that stack up to 68000, by the way?
- Matt
-*-
31123 8-AUG 20:24 General Information
RE: GFX2 & MM/1 (Re: Msg 31107)
From: GREGL To: BRIANWHITE
Well, the stuff I'm working on is for another project not entirely related to
OS-9/6809 or OS-9/68000. But if you want my honest opinion, the file descriptors
used by OS-9 need to be totally redone from the ground up instead of patching
here and there. If you start patching, you end up with a mish-mash that's going
to lead to trouble. But if you redo it from scratch, everything has to be
modified. It's a lose-lose situation.
-- Greg
-*-
End of Thread.
-*-
30961 29-JUL 02:17 General Information
Tetris
From: BRIANWHITE To: DODGECOLT
Mike,
Hate to be a bearer of bad news, but I had tetris crash on me when trying to
move a blue bar to the left. Garbage scattered that window and others.
The program exited with an error #207, but no system damage seems to have been
done. I did patch it to use a/z instead of up/down arrow keys.
Also, in the versions of tetris I've played, a block doesn't stick until it
tries to move over an already existing block. That allows you to slide a block
into a niche when it is already sitting on top of another block. Your version
doesn't allow that.
Brian
-*-
30970 29-JUL 17:09 General Information
RE: Tetris (Re: Msg 30961)
From: DODGECOLT To: BRIANWHITE
Sorry to hear of the crash! Maybe if you can duplicate it, I can figure out
what happended... About sliding the blocks, you can, but you have to be fast
enough :) Basically before it checks for the next keypress. I will have to play
around with the code when I get the chance. Perhaps I can make it easier to
slide. Of course, I only spent a few hours working on it! I'll see what I can
do...
-Mike
-*-
30977 29-JUL 23:07 General Information
RE: Tetris (Re: Msg 30970)
From: EDDIEKUNS To: DODGECOLT
I've been able to slide blocks into close spaces. I start pressing the arrow
key before the piece actually enters the block where it is able to slide. :)
My roommate and I have played hours of Tetris (literally!) (The night I
downloaded it, we played from 11pm 'til about 1:30am!) and haven't had it crash
yet ... so it's probably some really subtle thing wrong somewhere.
Eddie
-*-
30981 30-JUL 04:32 General Information
RE: Tetris (Re: Msg 30977)
From: THEFERRET To: EDDIEKUNS
(sliding blocks) That isn't a bug, that's a FEATURE!!:-) Nno, actually, that'S
how the "real" version plays.
-*-
30986 30-JUL 18:30 General Information
RE: Tetris (Re: Msg 30981)
From: DODGECOLT To: EDDIEKUNS
Actually, I just removed the delay normally present when you rotate and/or slide
a block. That way you don't end up rotating a block forever...
-Mike
-*-
30993 30-JUL 23:28 General Information
RE: Tetris (Re: Msg 30981)
From: EDDIEKUNS To: THEFERRET
Huh? I wasn't complaining about it! <Grin> I was replying to the person who
wrote to you who said he couldn't do it. I was proving that you COULD! The CoCo
port is actually quite good!
Eddie
-*-
31010 1-AUG 00:47 General Information
RE: Tetris (Re: Msg 30970)
From: KNOT1 To: DODGECOLT
Mike,
Nice job. I've had it running for days without any problems. It's nice to just
have it running in another window and to just switch over to it when I want to
play a little (which often becomes more than just "a little" <grin>). I was
also able "slide" parts in, though I _try_ avoid getting into situations where
that is needed.
I was able to create an "error" while goofing around. I can make a block stick
into the bottom of the play area. It's easiest with the long red blocks. Have
it horizontal and then flip it just before it hits the bottom. While this hasn't
crashed anything, it has caused a "game over" to occur. It seems that anything
that goes through the bottom logically "wraps" back to the top. The next block
"hits" this, and Game Over. I've never done this when playing a _serious_ game,
though.
-Jamie (KNOT1)-
-*-
31027 1-AUG 19:59 General Information
RE: Tetris (Re: Msg 31010)
From: DODGECOLT To: KNOT1
Thanks for the info. I'll have to try it and figure the bugger out.
-Mike
-*-
31110 7-AUG 03:46 General Information
RE: Tetris (Re: Msg 30970)
From: BRIANWHITE To: DODGECOLT
Mike,
I have been unable to reproduce the crash. I was having memory problems, so it
might not have been the actual program, but I thought I'd report it anyways.
I think the "sliding" change cound be accomplished by a change of algorithm
order. I did manage to accomplish the slide by holding down the key when one
block away.
From: To:
----- ---
IF (time expired) { Read/Decipher Keypress
Move block down IF (time expired) {
} IF (block touched "bottom") {
Read/Decipher Keypress Next Block
IF (block thouched "bottom") { } else {
Next Block Move block down
} }
}
I'm just guessing at the "From:" algirithm from a brief look at the source and
how the game plays. I may be off by a bit. This would also fix problems that
occur when rotating a block causes an lower edge to touch and the block to
stick. Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought that (in all the versions of Tetris I've
played - including the arcade) you were allowed to slide a block until it tried
to move down over top of an already occupied space.
Nice game though. I never played Tetris much before this!
Brian
-*-
31114 7-AUG 20:02 General Information
RE: Tetris (Re: Msg 31110)
From: DODGECOLT To: BRIANWHITE
Like I think I mentioned before, the 'original' way the program was coded
allowed a player to suspend a block in place to give him/her time to think. I
may try having a half-length delay instead of no delay; perhaps that will even
things out. To tell you the truth, I never played Tetris until I got the source
and converted it! I guess that makes me less than an expert on its play, but I
do have lots of other people who have! :)
-Mike
-*-
End of Thread.
-*-
30962 29-JUL 02:18 General Information
OS-k C compiler
From: BRIANWHITE To: OS9UGPRES (NR)
Kev,
A was just reading the OSKer and was disturbed when it was mentioned that the C
compiler supplied with OSk is "practically 100% compatible with the OS9 one."
Does that mean that OSK-C is still the non-ANSI, 5-pass, out-of-date C compiler
that doesn't support bit-fields or "void" types? It also mentioned that an "int"
is now 4-bytes. Well, what is a long-int?
Did they still reserve 16-bit integers as being a short-int? Can you create an
"unsigned short int"?
Also, this may be too late now, but is there a (could there be a) way a constant
could be set (either by modpatch or a SetStt) in your new window drivers by
which the interactive process could have its priority raised? i.e. If the
constant was set to 3, whenever a new process was "cleared to" to make it the
interactive process, that process would automatically have its priority raised
by 3. It would, of course, be reduced to its original value when it was no
longer the active process. A constant of 0 would be the same as disabling the
feature completely. Just a thought...
Brian
-*-
30963 29-JUL 02:18 General Information
Interrupts
From: BRIANWHITE To: PKW (NR)
Paul,
I was just wondering how interrupts are handles on the MM/1 hardware wise.
The way I see it, there are three different ways. Which did you choose?
1) CoCo Style: Every interrupt goes through polling to find out which device
generated it. (High CPU overhead)
2) Autovectoring: Each type of interrupt (ACIA/Keyboard/Etc) has its own
priority level (1-6) which jumps directly to the driver without OSk even knowing
about it. The driver must then poll to see which of its possible devices
generated the interrupt. (Low CPU overhead)
3) True Vectoring: Each possible source of interrupt is coded with a vector
number that jumps straight to the driver without OSk even knowing about it. The
driver would then poll to find the device or could know which device based on
where the vector jumped to. (Low/No CPU overhead)
I'm sure method 1 isn't used. I just included it because it is a possability.
Also, is the "power-good" line of the power supply tied to IRQ level-7 so OSk is
able to react to loss of power?
It was also announced that there would be floating point math routines built
into the operating system (OSk). Was this done by using opcode emulation for
the unknown cpGEN opcode, exception processing for a bad cpGEN opcode, or
standard system calls? Doing instruction emulation would seem best because it
is faster and would automatically not call the OS if a 68020+ and a coprocessor
were present (thus having no OS overhead at all!). Unfurtunately, I lent my
68030 manual to a friend and am unsure how an 020/030 would handle such an
"implemented" instruction when a coprocessor was NOT present. I also don't know
whether the "cp" instructions fall under "unimplemented" or "bad" opcode, hence
the listing of both in the question above. Thanx in advance for the info...
Brian
-*-
30967 29-JUL 09:13 Patches
RE: step Rates (Re: Msg 30717)
From: DISTO To: JANG
The only thing I can think of is that the controller is not working well. I have
seen this before from Arizona controllers. If all else fails, you could call up
CRC and send it to them for repairs. -Tony.
-*-
30991 30-JUL 23:11 Patches
RE: step Rates (Re: Msg 30967)
From: JANG To: DISTO (NR)
Hi Tony..
Thanks for the idea, It can't hurt to have it checked out.. However..
I reciently installed a new CCHDisk with the help of Ken Scales and things
have improved somewhat. At least I can "Type-ahead" now while Read/Write
is going-on. For me that's a big improvement.. I may try a few more
attempts before I pack it up and send it in.. but thanks very much.
Jang
-*-
31007 31-JUL 23:58 Patches
RE: step Rates (Re: Msg 30991)
From: KSCALES To: JANG
Jerry -
Regarding your step-rate discussion with Tony D...
The info in your ST125 manual is given in a different format than you will want
to input it in your HD descriptor. They are quoting the "Step Pulse Range" as
being 3-200 microseconds. You will want to select a value from the SMALLER end
of this range which is compatible with your controller, and provides reliable
operation. However, this unfortunately is not just a matter of using "n"
microseconds as the value in your Device Descriptor -- Your WD1002-TAN (SHD?)
controller will probably use a coded scheme such as 0=3 MILLIseconds, 4=200
MICROseconds, 5=70 MICROseconds,... 7=18 MICROseconds. (Caps are intentional
for emphasis.) Not having the WD1002 specs available, I don't know what the
exact values will be for your controller. So maybe trial and error is the most
expedient method -- since you said 7 worked well, perhaps that is the magic
number. (It could be that values greater than 7 are illegal for that
controller.)
Easiest way to set it permanently is to use dEd on your OS9Boot file, link to
(each of) your HD descriptors (H0 & DD?), change the value at offset $14 in the
descriptor to the desired step rate in hex, write it to disk, then verify.
Good luck. Hope this helps. / Ken
-*-
31051 3-AUG 20:51 Patches
RE: step Rates (Re: Msg 31007)
From: JANG To: KSCALES
Ahh... Thanks again Ken.. Even though this information is a little general in
nature.. It is exactly what I need to explore how to get a little more speed and
efficiency out of my system.. Thank You, again for your help..
Jerry
-*-
End of Thread.
-*-
30968 29-JUL 14:20 General Information
CoCo3 Help
From: KEITHBAUER To: ALL
I was wondering if someone could help me with something. I have a CoCo3 that no
longer works. I have replaced the CPU (it was socketed by someone else) and
tried the 512k in another machine and still can not find the problem.
no sign on, when I hit reset I get a checker board pattern sometimes. My
thought is that maybe one of you guys would like to work on your soldering
skills. Since my CoCo3 is dead allready you can not break it again. I would pay
for all parts as well as for your time as long as it is not too much. Anybody
want to take a crack at it?
Thanks,
Keith Bauer
-*-
30971 29-JUL 17:30 General Information
RE: No FORMAT after 1-Meg upgrade! (Re: Msg 30804)
From: JAYTRUESDALE To: RADARBUZZ
I found that when my coco 3 won't format floppy disks (but all other floppy
operations still work) that cleaning all of the floppy controller contacts
solves the problem.
-J
-*-
End of Thread.
-*-
30976 29-JUL 22:41 General Information
68000 Assembler Book
From: JAYTRUESDALE To: ALL
Is anyone familar with the book "Assembly and Assemblers, The Motorola MC68000
Family" by George E. Gorsline?
If so, any opinions of the book?
-*-
30978 30-JUL 00:05 General Information
WIZ
From: KELLYH To: WBRADY (NR)
BILL, I HAVE USED WIZ FOR SEVERAL MONTHS, BUT NOW HAVE A PROBLEM I CANNOT SOLVE.
I CAN LINK UP TO DELPHI AND APPEAR TO COMMUNICATE BUT CANNOT READ THE TEXT.
FUZZY BOXES, GARBLED LETTERS. HJAVE CHECKED AND RECHECKED BAUD AND PROTOCOLS ON
DRIVERS AND IN PROG., TO NO AVAIL. I'VE EVEN MADE ENTIRE NEW BOOT DISKS ETC.
(SEEMED TO START WHEN i ADDED A RAMDISK) IS IT POSSIBLE MY RS232 PACK IS BUGGY?
i CAN DO OKAY WITH XTERM AND SERIAL PORT, SO MODEM SHOULD BE OKAY. HOW DO I
TELL IF MY RS232 CARTRIGE IS BAD? i'VE SPENT MONTHS OF FRUSTRATION WITH THIS,
SO ANY IDEAS ARE APPRECIATED. THANKS MUCH! kELLY
-*-
31043 2-AUG 19:37 General Information
RE: WIZ (Re: Msg 30978)
From: RAYMAYEUX To: OS9UGED (NR)
Please read msg # 30978.
-*-
End of Thread.
-*-
30979 30-JUL 00:15 General Information
BASIC09
From: KELLYH To: ALL
HELLO, THIS IS PROBABLY A SILLY QUESTION, BUT i'M A SILLY GUY. IS THERE A
SIMILAR BASIC09 COMMAND ONE CAN USE TO ACCOMPLISH THE ECB "SOUND XXX,XXX"
FUNCTION? i NEED TO ADD SOME BEEPS TO A TIMER PROGRAM. tHANKS. KELLY
-*-
30985 30-JUL 18:14 General Information
RE: BASIC09 (Re: Msg 30979)
From: ZACKSESSIONS To: KELLYH
I think you'll probably have to use a SYSCALL to the SS.Tone I$SETSTT system
function.
Zack
-*-
30987 30-JUL 18:32 General Information
RE: BASIC09 (Re: Msg 30985)
From: DODGECOLT To: KELLYH
Try downloading the new GFX2 subroutine from the NEW UPLOADS database here. One
of the added functions is a 'sound' command.
-Mike
-*-
30989 30-JUL 19:42 General Information
RE: BASIC09 (Re: Msg 30979)
From: DCJR To: KELLYH
If all you want to do is add a beep, just use:
RUN gfx2("bell")
Should work....
-*-
31003 31-JUL 23:50 General Information
RE: BASIC09 (Re: Msg 30989)
From: KELLYH To: DCJR
THANKS FOR THE SUGGESTION. i BELIEVE i'LL GIVE THAT A TRY. tRUE, i JUST NEED TO
ADD PERIODIC BEEP TONES TO A PROGRAM i'M WRITING FOR PROCESS TIMING CONTROL IN
MY DARKROOM. i LOOKED THROUGH MANUALS, BUT GUESS i MISSED THAT. tHAKS AGAIN.
kELLY
-*-
31004 31-JUL 23:53 General Information
RE: BASIC09 (Re: Msg 30987)
From: KELLYH To: DODGECOLT
THANKS FOR YOUR SUGGESTION. i'M GOING TO HAVE TO TRY SOME GFX EXPERIMENTS.
THUS FAR, i HAVE NEVER USED ANY GRAPHICS COMMANDS. i GENERALLY ONLY WRITE SMALL
TIMER AND DARKROOM PROCESS CONTROL PROGRAMS SO i HAVEN'T NEEDED IT YET. tIME TO
LEARN SOMETHING NEW! aS SOON AS i GET MY TERMINAL SOFTWARE (OR HARDWARE?)
PROBLEM WORKED OUT, i'LL LOOK FOR THE D/L. mUCH APPRECIATED. kELLY
-*-
31006 31-JUL 23:56 General Information
RE: BASIC09 (Re: Msg 30985)
From: KELLYH To: ZACKSESSIONS
THANKS FOR THE SUGGESTION. i WILL EXPLORE THAT. aLSO RECIEVED SUGGESTIONS FOR
GFX USAGE (MESGS 30987 AND 30989) i SURE APPRECIATE THE HELP. kELLY
-*-
31044 2-AUG 19:46 General Information
RE: BASIC09 (Re: Msg 31004)
From: DCJR To: KELLYH (NR)
Hmmm.... as I read your reply, another method that doesn't involve the overhead
present in using gfx2 popped into my head. You can also do it like this....
(* use this to set it up *)
DIM Beep:STRING[1]
Beep:=CHR$(7)
(* body of program *)
.
.
(* Need a beep! *)
PRINT Beep
This way might be a little faster if your timing needs it.
-*-
End of Thread.
-*-
30982 30-JUL 05:17 Graphics & Music
S/S Pak & 1.7 MHz driver
From: THEFERRET To: ALL
HELP! I downloaded the fix for the pak, but have no idea how to use the
drivers!!! I hear there was info in level 1, or L 2.0, but I do not have access
to either.
Phil B
-*-
30983 30-JUL 18:02 Utilities
WizPro
From: AARONS To: ALL
I have the WizPro share-ware disk and would like to send for the unabridged
version disks and laser printed manual, but I'm not sure of William Brady's
Address (the documentation lists- 1503-I Flanders Lane, and Delphi lists-
4776-B Carmodl Ct. ). Which is correct?? ***Does anyone know?***
Aaron
-*-
31042 2-AUG 19:24 Utilities
RE: WizPro (Re: Msg 30983)
From: RAYMAYEUX To: AARONS
The last I heard the 1503-I address was correct. His phone number should be
listed in the docs. Might want to call to make sure.
-*-
End of Thread.
-*-
30984 30-JUL 18:04 Utilities
gfx2, MaxIc
From: AARONS To: DALEP
I was glad to see a real usefull Multi-Vue program application (Loan
Proceduresfor MVFinance).
However I can't get this part to work!
I downloaded the new gfx2 module and Docs.
When I ident the new gfx2 I get Module Size: $0949 #2377 , CRC (GOOD)
Then placed it in my CMDS Dir (it is working OK with all my other software).
From Rainbow on disk: pack MVFinance loanprocs > MVf
Here's what happens:
1) click on Loans 2) click on any menu item in loans 3) draws bordered window 4)
error = 55 ( subscript out of range) 5) flips out of that device window to
another one (to gshell menu screen) 6) when I use the clear key to get back to
MVFinance I find the OS9: prompt
The strange thing is it seemed to work partially the first time, the regular
payment procedure errored after entering info.
There appears to be a problem with routine 7000 , but everything is exactly as
shown in the listing in rainbow.
Any ideas?
****************************************
Also:
on MaxIc ---
When I click on the icon the window comes up for MaxIc then is erased and
repalced by a blank double bordered window. I must have spent 50 hrs tring to
find this problem! Help!
Aaron
-*-
30988 30-JUL 18:35 Utilities
RE: gfx2, MaxIc (Re: Msg 30984)
From: DODGECOLT To: AARONS
Have you merged the new GFX2 with SYSCALL and INKEY? It may be having problems
loading the new gfx2 with everything else (or it is using an old version.)
-Mike
-*-
31020 1-AUG 08:01 Utilities
RE: gfx2, MaxIc (Re: Msg 30988)
From: AARONS To: DODGECOLT
Yes, I have merged GFX2 with SYSCALL and INKEY. I did an ident on the new GFX2,
and there they were (syscall and inkey) CRC good on both.
I have recreated ar -x , same thing happened. What could it be?
Aaron
-*-
31025 1-AUG 19:56 Utilities
RE: gfx2, MaxIc (Re: Msg 31020)
From: DODGECOLT To: AARONS
Well, if that wasn't the problem, I am at a loss. Maybe the new GFX2 is too
big? I am not sure, tho, I do most of my programming in C.
-Mike
-*-
31028 1-AUG 20:52 Utilities
RE: gfx2, MaxIc (Re: Msg 31025)
From: AARONS To: DODGECOLT
Thanks for answering so quick. But I still can't find the problem but I'll keep
hacking at it for a while until I have more data until I scream again.
Aaron
-*-
End of Thread.
-*-
30990 30-JUL 21:22 Device Drivers
named pipes?
From: THEFERRET To: OS9UGPRES (NR)
I stumbled across named pipes in the os9 sourcebook, and noticed that there IS a
/pipe descriptor with LII. But normal namaed pipes seem out of the question,
and I'm havaving problems with just using /pipe re: the "normal" way of making
an unnamed pipe. Suggestions? (perhaps a patch to allow REAL named pipes?)!
PHhil
-*-
30992 30-JUL 23:14 General Information
RE: Multi-pak Upgrade?? (Re: Msg 30943)
From: JIMHARRISON To: SCG
There seems to be some difference of opinion concerning just how essential it is
to upgrade the 26-3124 MPI. But Tandy itself feels it IS. Quoting now from
Tandy's Technical Bulletin No. CC:29, dated 8/14/86, and revised 9/16/87:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------- .
. .
"Purpose: To eliminate dual addressing and insure proper operation with Color
Computer 3.
. . .
"** This Bulletin Is Mandatory For Use With The Color Computer 3 **" -----------
-----------------------------------------------------------------
It then describes the procedure, which, assuming you have the upgrade kit (a
small satellite board with 1 IC, 1 resistor, 1 capacitor, and about 7 wires), is
not difficult. BUT - it does require some fairly delicate soldering, and
shouldn't be attempted by someone lacking experience at that.
The upgrade kit can be ordered from Howard Medical for $14.95 plus two bucks
shipping, in case you decide to go for it. Comes with instructions, & at a fair
price. Or you can have it supplied & installed by Tandy for about $35-40, I
think - a pretty high price for 50 cents worth of parts and 15 minutes of labor!
I have NOT heard of any DEFINITE cases oproblems traced to failure to upgrade
the MPI - but maybe someone else HAS ????
Here's the bottom line: It's up to YOU! <GRIN>
Jim
-*-
31102 6-AUG 22:08 General Information
RE: Multi-pak Upgrade?? (Re: Msg 30992)
From: SCG To: JIMHARRISON
Ok jim thanks for the info I guess for 16 bucks its worth the peace of mind!
Steve
-*-
End of Thread.
-*-
30994 30-JUL 23:39 Graphics & Music
SS cartridge
From: THEFERRET To: ALL
(reguarding the 2Mhz upgrade) I replaced the transistor fine. I cut the trace
to the q-pin. I re-routed that chip to the GND pin.... and I DOESN'T DO
ANYTHING!!! ?????
It works normally at .89 Mhz, and only half volume at 2 Mhz. I tried
resoldering the transistor. I even put in a NEW transistor. But it don't work.
HELP!
P.B.
-*-
30999 31-JUL 18:09 Graphics & Music
RE: SS cartridge (Re: Msg 30994)
From: ZACKSESSIONS To: THEFERRET
Where did you get the transistors? I heard the ones sold by the Rat Shack are
marginal at best and should be avoided.
Zack
-*-
31019 1-AUG 05:09 Graphics & Music
RE: SS cartridge (Re: Msg 30999)
From: THEFERRET To: ZACKSESSIONS
Yeah, I got them from radio shak. Bitut where else is good?
-*-
31022 1-AUG 18:24 Graphics & Music
RE: SS cartridge (Re: Msg 31019)
From: ZACKSESSIONS To: THEFERRET
Is Radio Shack the only electronic store in your area?
-*-
31037 2-AUG 03:40 Graphics & Music
RE: SS cartridge (Re: Msg 31022)
From: THEFERRET To: ZACKSESSIONS
Well, to tell the truth, I haven'T really checked. But therey're not on every
street. Still, I found one or two in the!=9==-Ji]MMJ,X7 "Ie9j$TH(Rjj$(HhS7:*jUuSR::%A!%
M2jUM%
5R$H UJ SS cartridge (Re: Msg 31022)
From: THEFERRET To: ZACKSESSIONS
I DON'T BELIEVE IT!!! I never thought Radio Shack was THAT crummy. I got a
"real" 2n3906 from an electronics store, for same price as fifteen (15) of the
radio shack so-called transistors. Sure enough, it works now. ARRG!
Now all I have to do is figure out how to use that S$%#'!%# device driver!!
-*-
End of Thread.
-*-
30995 30-JUL 23:59 Programmers Den
Simultaneous disk & rs232 I/O???
From: EDDIEKUNS To: ALL
How do I do it?
KBCom has a problem I don't know how other terminal programs avoid. (They
indeed may not!) When writing to a logfile, occasionally you fill up a segment
and OS-9 needs to search about the disk to find space for another segment. The
problem is that sometimes this seeking about takes long enough that Aciapak's
buffer overflows and therefore it locks up. Dead terminal program. The only
way to wake up Aciapak is to kill the program. (!) And of course, since I'm
using C buffered I/O, the first time it tries to find a segment is after you've
tried to write 256 chars to the file and fill up the C buffer. This usually
occurs in the middle of the first screen of logging, and on a fragmented disk
will lock you up right away.
Does anyone have a clue on how to avoid this? I thought of having a dedicated
process write to disk and sending the info through a pipe ... but in addition to
this being much more complicated (how to you handle "full media" errors and
such, since that process doesn't own the screen?) you've just pushed the delay
one level deeper and through a 90-byte blocking buffer!
I've also thought about some way of forcing it to take the first sas-sized chunk
when it opens the file... any good way to do this? Would changing sas make the
above problem go away or be less serious? I suppose if I made sas some large
number (just for the open path, not for the device!) and then forced the OS to
grab the first segment it would delay the problem until that segment filled up,
and if I counted how many bytes I wrote to the logfile....
I dunno. Anyone have any bright ideas?
Eddie
-*-
31011 1-AUG 00:48 Programmers Den
RE: Simultaneous disk & rs232 I/O??? (Re: Msg 30995)
From: KNOT1 To: EDDIEKUNS
Eddie,
When you say "logfile" can I assume you're talking about text capture? If so,
when there is a buffer overflow don't you just lose characters, not lock up? I
did have a lock up problem with my terminal program when there was disk I/O too,
but I believe that was do to interrupt problems that went away when I did the
diode/Multi-Pak "hacks" to fix other lock ups. There is also a software "fix"
to this problem on page 20 of the August Rainbow, if you haven't seen it
already. This may help with your problem.
If you're still having buffer overflow problems, you could implement something
like my "bigbuff" program. It's a concurrently running program that reads data
from the RS-232 into a 7-1/2K or so get/put buffer. Then the terminal program
reads the data from the get/put buffer. Thus, no pipe, a 7-1/2K limit (not 90
bytes), and the terminal program still has control of the writes to the disk.
With the hardware fixes and using "bigbuff" I haven't had a lock up or lost a
charater due to buffer overflow at 2400 baud yet.
I've also used the patch in the databases to increase the ACIAPAK's buffers to
256 bytes.
I hope this is of some help!
-Jamie (KNOT1)-
-*-
31015 1-AUG 01:34 Programmers Den
RE: Simultaneous disk & rs232 I/O??? (Re: Msg 30995)
From: 07ESRTIMOTHY To: EDDIEKUNS
Hi Eddie,
How about using two buffers, write wile one fills up then switch back and forth?
Just an idea.
Tim
-*-
31039 2-AUG 15:05 Programmers Den
RE: Simultaneous disk & rs232 I/O??? (Re: Msg 30995)
From: XLIONX To: EDDIEKUNS
Howdy Edward, <grin>
First, have you installed the new clock.60hz found in ELIMSW.AR. This changes
the number of tick per time-slice from 6 to 2. This has made the difference on
my system. Also the ACIAPAK patch that increases the size of the buffers works
quite well. Both of these together have made it possible for me to up/down-load
in one window whilst running other programs like vi (tsedit) and dynacalc in
another window (and use them too!) even at 2400 baud!
Check into KNOT1s message about BIGBUFF. If you can get it to fly on KBCom,
mabey more of us will find uses for it.
-Mark W. Farrell (PegaSystems) -XLIONX (DELPHI) -SIGOp ProSIG (Pinball Haven
(708) 428-8445) -mwf@SANDV
-*-
31052 3-AUG 21:28 Programmers Den
RE: Simultaneous disk & rs232 I/O??? (Re: Msg 31011)
From: EDDIEKUNS To: KNOT1
Thanks for the suggestions! I've found that if Aciapak's buffer completely
fills up without you being able to read it, then on your next read you lock up.
Always. But if you just get behind and are reading out of Aciapak when it fills
up I think it just throws away any extra chars into the bitbucket.
Your 'bigbuff' solution sounds like my only possible alternative to leaving
everthing as it is now.}i Hmmm... it would be a fairly major rewrite of KBCom,
however. I'd probably have to put XON/XOFF code into bigbuff. Well, the first
n bytes of the get/put could be "shared data" like 'is XON on or off?' and
'current input pointer' etc. I assume you use the GP buffer as a circular 7.5k
buffer? Heh. That would free up 4k in KBCom's memory map (}he 4(the 4k
circular input buffer) as well as the rs232-handling code. Wow. It would add a
little in extra intelligence to take care of the fact that... well... you know
what I mean!
Hmmm... I'll have to think about this! Tho I may not have the time to make the
changes 'til KBCom 2.0! :)
Eddie
-*-
31053 3-AUG 21:30 Programmers Den
RE: Simultaneous disk & rs232 I/O??? (Re: Msg 31015)
From: EDDIEKUNS To: 07ESRTIMOTHY
The problem is that while I'm in a write() call, KBCom is deaf. If the CoCo had
a caching disk driver, then I'd be in good shape. (And could overlap disk
writes and rs232 reads.)
Eddie
-*-
31056 3-AUG 22:38 Programmers Den
RE: Simultaneous disk & rs232 I/O??? (Re: Msg 31052)
From: MINIFREAK To: EDDIEKUNS
Eddie,
Why don't you let the driver take care of it's own XON/OFF-ing?
Randy
-*-
31058 4-AUG 04:09 Programmers Den
RE: Simultaneous disk & rs232 I/O??? (Re: Msg 31052)
From: KNOT1 To: EDDIEKUNS
Eddie,
Have you done either the hardware or the software interupt fixes? I've just
done some testing, forcing the ACIAPAK's buffer to overflow, and couldn't get it
to lock up once. It just returns an error on the first read, and then the
contents of the buffer on the next read, with excess characters truncated. If
you haven't, give one a try.
You want any information to help implement it, I'd be glad to help. You're
right about using "shared data" in the get/put buffer. Here's the description
of my "bigbuff" get/put buffer:
"<bigbuff.h>":
------------------------
#define BBSIZE 7424
struct bigbuff {
unsigned bb_read,
bb_write,
bb_reserved,
bb_size;
char bb_buffer[BBSIZE-8];
};
------------------------
Originally "bb_read" and "bb_write" were character pointers, and then I realized
that the buffer could (most likely would) be mapped-in at different addresses in
each process! So they are now offsets from the start of "bb_buffer".
Actually, if you want, I could let you use some of my code, as long as you gave
me credit for it. "Bigbuff" is an independent program, and I have a collection
of rountines to use it. There're called "bbtools.c" and consist of:
int bbgetgroup(); /* returns bigbuff's group number */
int bbnumchar(group); /* returnt the number of characters available */
/* for reading from bigbuff */
int bbread(group,s,len); /* like the read() command, except, if there */
/* are fewer than 'len' chars available, it */
/* will read what is and not wait for more */
Just let me know. Well, I hadn't intended on going on this long, so I think
I'll call it quits for now.
-Jamie (KNOT1)-
-*-
31063 4-AUG 12:34 Programmers Den
RE: Simultaneous disk & rs232 I/O??? (Re: Msg 31039)
From: EDDIEKUNS To: XLIONX
Well, the problem with installing the new clock.60hz is that I have the Disto
RTC. <Sigh> I don't want to give that up. I increase Aciapak's buffer to 256
chars long ago! :)
Eddie
-*-
31064 4-AUG 12:48 Programmers Den
RE: Simultaneous disk & rs232 I/O??? (Re: Msg 31056)
From: EDDIEKUNS To: MINIFREAK
Well, Aciapak has this neat "feature." If it recieves a garbage XOFF, it will
lock up. With *no* way of recovering.
Also, if KBCom's internal buffer nears overflowing, I want to send an XOFF.
Eddie
-*-
31065 4-AUG 12:54 Programmers Den
RE: Simultaneous disk & rs232 I/O??? (Re: Msg 31058)
From: EDDIEKUNS To: KNOT1
I'm interested in looking at bigbuff! If I do end up using it, then I would
certainly give you credit! (Even if I just use the concept bug (oops) but write
my own code!) Thanks for the input!
Eddie
-*-
31069 4-AUG 23:34 Programmers Den
RE: Simultaneous disk & rs232 I/O??? (Re: Msg 31064)
From: MINIFREAK To: EDDIEKUNS
Eddie,
True on the garbage Xoff, though I've never had it happen that I can
remember. Also, I see no problems sending your own Xon/off with the drivers'
also enabled. Just don't expect any to come back at you... :>
Randy
-*-
31070 5-AUG 00:18 Programmers Den
RE: Simultaneous disk & rs232 I/O??? (Re: Msg 31069)
From: EDDIEKUNS To: MINIFREAK
The problem is that Aciapak improperly handles XON/XOFF. When you've recieved
an XOFF, you should still *send* XON and XOFF characters. Just buffer
everything else. I don't trust Aciapak enough to let it use XON/XOFF. Tho
eventually I'll offer the choice of letting it, for those drivers that are
written properly.
Eddie
-*-
31076 5-AUG 03:58 Programmers Den
RE: Simultaneous disk & rs232 I/O??? (Re: Msg 31065)
From: KNOT1 To: EDDIEKUNS
Eddie,
Quite welcomed! I guess _now_ is a good time to put in that "hibernate" code
I've been meaning to add. I'll E-Mail you a copy sometime soon, unless you have
a different way you would like to receive it.
-Jamie (KNOT1)-
-*-
31148 10-AUG 21:19 Programmers Den
RE: Simultaneous disk & rs232 I/O??? (Re: Msg 31076)
From: EDDIEKUNS To: KNOT1
E-Mail is the easiest way. Thanks!
Eddie
-*-
End of Thread.
-*-
30996 31-JUL 00:03 Telcom
RE: Terminal programs (Re: Msg 30892)
From: HARLIN To: EDDIEKUNS
Thanks to everyone with replies...that should do me for awhile. I relly should
pick up on a RS-232..think I will. That should make life easier.
-*-
30997 31-JUL 00:08 General Information
Hard drives & RSDOS
From: HARLIN To: ALL
I'm thinking of getting a 10meg hard drive with a Radio Shack controller (cat #
26-3145) but I am unsure if I can acsess RSDOS with it. Maybe a alternate Dos? I
have "mega-files" in a VIP Database that I need to get at all at once. I I know
that this isn't the place for this forum mess. but as I was writing it< I
remembered where I was!
-*-
31000 31-JUL 20:39 General Information
RE: MAGNAVOX 8 CM 515 (Re: Msg 30873)
From: DAVEBEAN To: PKW (NR)
Yes, I waited and waited for an affordable OSK or OS-9000 machine in my price r
range. Anywhere from $1000 to $1500 would have been fine. Finally gave up and
jumped on the IBM bandwagon. Not cause I cause I had a thing for MSDOS but
twernt anything other game in town. Not counting amiga et al.
-*-
31001 31-JUL 22:03 General Information
KEYBRD
From: TOMBRE To: ALL
DOES anyone know how I can find out who is selling the 101 Keyboard interface
for the CoCo3? I plan on putting my coco3 in a clone case and can't seem to
find out who the dealers are than is selling the interface. I have heard that
Bob Puppa is selling one....but have no idea on how to get in contact with him.
Any Info would sure be appricieated... THX... Tombre
-*-
31005 31-JUL 23:55 General Information
RE: KEYBRD (Re: Msg 31001)
From: CBJ To: TOMBRE (NR)
I think Howard Medical might be selling the adapter but Frank Hogg is for sure.
I almost bought one from him at the Rainbowfest but was short of $$$$$. Too many
other goodies to buy.
-*-
31017 1-AUG 01:38 General Information
RE: KEYBRD (Re: Msg 31001)
From: 07ESRTIMOTHY To: TOMBRE (NR)
There are two or three venders in the Rainbow that list the keyboard adapter.
Tim
-*-
31021 1-AUG 16:59 General Information
RE: KEYBRD (Re: Msg 31001)
From: RCAREY To: TOMBRE (NR)
You can get the Bob Puppo PC Keyboard adapter from Frank Hogg Labs... I think
the price is $99... Check the Hogg ad in Rainbow... They also sell the KBDS I
believe. Rick
-*-
End of Thread.
-*-
31002 31-JUL 23:19 General Information
MM/1
From: COLINMCKAY To: PKW (NR)
Well, we all know a bit about the hardware side of the MM/1. Matthew Thompson
has posted a file with some technical specs. Paul Ward has answered a few
technical questions.
Now I'd like to hear a few answers about this thousands of MSDOS programs phrase
that has appeared in their ads. The only thing that I have heard was a mention
on the International OS-9 echo that QuickBasic had been ported over to the MM/1.
Somehow, I don't think this is what most of us had in mind...
Personally, I was hoping for something along the lines of an ANSI C compiler, or
maybe some ports of some MSDOS software. Or even an 8088 type emulator board.
While MSDOS compatability is definitely not why I am getting an MM/1, it has
been mentioned in the ads, and is a selling point for many people.
Does anyone out there have any concrete information? Paul, or Kevin, care to
comment?
And while I have your attention, does anyone know if the second board comes
populated with memory? I did call the 1-800 number, but the woman who answered
really didn't know, although she was real good at reading the ad. What I mean is
does it come with 2 meg of SIMMS on board, giving you a 3 meg system, or should
I start hunting for simms?
Any idea how soon the order forms are going to be sent out? Your postcards have
started arriving here in Ottawa, (complete with typo of the word from which was
form on the card). I know the shipping date has been moved back to
mid-September.
Are there any plans to ship demos with the new machines? Or would it be possible
for User's Groups to obtain copies of the Demos? A good demo can be a great form
of advertising...
TTYL. Colin McKay.
-*-
31013 1-AUG 01:06 General Information
RE: MM/1 (Re: Msg 31002)
From: JENG To: COLINMCKAY
Colin Please read message #31012 ! Hope that helps you out ! John Eng Pincher
Creek AB. JENG
-*-
End of Thread.
-*-
31008 1-AUG 00:19 Device Drivers
RE: Ramdisks & 1Meg Upgrade (Re: Msg 29970)
From: MAZO To: ZACKSESSIONS
The RAM driver with the "Development Pack" only supports a maximum of 192k - it
would be nice if it could be made larger. Currently I am able to load about 28
AIFS and associated icons, the clib.l, merged.l and cstart.r
in a LIB dir
andstill load and compile within the remaining 163 sectors. However, larger
programs may be a problem. Also, a reduced CMDS dir would be nice to include.
The 1 meg upgrade increased the general performance of my CO
-*-
31009 1-AUG 00:23 Device Drivers
RE: Ramdisks & 1Meg Upgrade (Re: Msg 31008)
From: EDDIEKUNS To: MAZO
I'm using the RAM driver which came with the Developement Pak with a RAM drive
1440 sectors large, which is about 360k! Use dmode to change sct=5a0 before
'iniz'ing the drive.
Eddie
-*-
31087 5-AUG 15:56 Device Drivers
RE: Ramdisks & 1Meg Upgrade (Re: Msg 31009)
From: MAZO To: EDDIEKUNS
Thnx for the quick reply... Will try this and let you know how happy it makes
me... Mazo
-*-
End of Thread.
-*-
31012 1-AUG 01:02 General Information
gen
From: JENG To: ALL
I do believe the MM/1 will come with "demos of animation from IMS and 3rd party
vendors" as Paul wrote in message #30209 in the forum area and in regards to
memory on the second board, I doubt if memory will be included, memory on the
first board is 100ns (256 by 4s), Simms (1meg by 8) will sell for about $80.00
US depending on current prices (from IMS) Financing will be available to US
citizens and he thinks to Canadians too(I'm proud to be one!) They're looking
into a couple of companys to sell MM/1's here. They're developing laser printer
software, as well as support for "outline" fonts for 24 pin printers. As of July
22nd, when he last left me a message, Insider out next week and the video due in
3 weeks! JENG
-*-
31014 1-AUG 01:31 General Information
Tetris
From: 07ESRTIMOTHY To: ALL
Talking about tetris, I was up till 2:30 in the morning the first night I
downloaded it! Great program!
Tim Fadden
-*-
31016 1-AUG 01:37 Graphics & Music
SS Cart modification
From: 07ESRTIMOTHY To: THEFERRET
As Zack mentioned about the transistors, I had to dump the Rad Shack ones and
get the real things from an electronics parts house.
Tim
-*-
31018 1-AUG 03:05 Grits & Gravy
Delphi new advantage rates
From: KNOT1 To: ALL
Wow! Has anyone seen the new Advantage rates that start in September? Only $20
for 20 hours! And just $1.20 for each hour (2 cents/minute) after that! These
are great rates. I like it, that's for sure!
-Jamie (KNOT1)-
-*-
31023 1-AUG 18:41 General Information
tetris
From: MRGOOD To: DODGECOLT
I've experienced one bug with Tetris. The screen scrolls every once in a while
and I get multiple printouts of the score. Game play isn't affected, but
onscreen text is.
Hugo
-*-
31026 1-AUG 19:57 General Information
RE: tetris (Re: Msg 31023)
From: DODGECOLT To: MRGOOD
Interesting- I have never seen that behavior before... what level were you at,
and how far up was the row of blocks that were removed?
-Mike
-*-
31048 3-AUG 08:36 General Information
RE: tetris (Re: Msg 31026)
From: MRGOOD To: DODGECOLT
I played Tetris again yesterday, but could not repeat the scroliing oops
scrolling I told you about in the last message. Perhaps it was some sort of
windint error rather than a program 'feature'.
Anyway, the only other comment I have is the colors. I find the straight bars
difficult to see against the background. I haven't checked yet, but does the
program use palette default colors or does it set its own? If palette, then I
know what to do....
Hugo
-*-
31054 3-AUG 21:33 General Information
RE: tetris (Re: Msg 31026)
From: EDDIEKUNS To: DODGECOLT
Mike -- I've seen that behavior with compiling with V5 of your cgfx lib. (Not
when using V4 tho.) When a row is removed, too much of the screen scrolls.
Eddie
-*-
31090 5-AUG 19:09 General Information
RE: tetris (Re: Msg 31054)
From: DODGECOLT To: EDDIEKUNS
Hmmmm, perhaps that bug is related to the buffering (or lack of in V5) of the
CWArea() function. I will check when I get a chance to make sure...
-Mike
-*-
31091 5-AUG 19:12 General Information
RE: tetris (Re: Msg 31048)
From: DODGECOLT To: MRGOOD
Ok, well I am looking into the problem... Anyway, yes, it does use the default
palettes. Hmmm, you must have a mono monitor? I guess Red doesn't show up very
well.
-Mike
-*-
31097 6-AUG 19:45 General Information
RE: tetris (Re: Msg 31091)
From: MRGOOD To: DODGECOLT
I use a CM-8 monitor, but I've changed my default colors, so the colors that I
see probably aren't the colors you see!
Hugo
-*-
End of Thread.
-*-
31024 1-AUG 19:18 Utilities
OS9 to MS-DOS
From: RODHARPER To: ALL
I would like to find a utility that would allow an OS9 formatted disk, to be
changed to a readable format for an MS-DOS machine. Is there such an animal ??
>>Rod<<
-*-
31029 1-AUG 21:21 General Information
That Danged logon msg
From: JAYTRUESDALE To: ALL
I don't know about anyone else but I was very annoyed with the login message
that I got from Delphi when I logged on yesterday. I was not paying attention
to all of the text that was scrolling off of my screen (I figure I'll just
capture the useful stuff like messages that I want to read later, so my capture
buffer was closed...) and then all of a sudden I was FORCED to pick an option
whose consequences I didn't fully understand! There was no way out!
I resent having to spend my nickel wading through stuff that is better alt with
off-line. I sent a note to SERVICE via email complaining about their
methodology used to deliver their message on my nickel. I urge anyone else who
was irritated by Delphi's delivery method to send a message to SERVICE via
email. Maybe then they'll think twice before doing some thing like this again.
They gave me a ten minute credit for the time I spend trying to abort out of
that message.
-*-
31030 1-AUG 22:00 General Information
RE: That Danged logon msg (Re: Msg 31029)
From: JAYTRUESDALE To: ALL
Wasn't there some technical reasons for using one network vs. the other? Don't
downloads work ok on one but not so well on the other? I seem to recall having
less problems with Telenet way back when so i stuck with it until now. Have the
problems using Tymnet been fixed?
Does anyone know what the pound sign in the Tymnet telephpne number listing
means?
-*-
31031 1-AUG 22:09 General Information
RE: That Danged logon msg (Re: Msg 31030)
From: DWHILL To: JAYTRUESDALE
I've been using Tymnet exclusively until the last couple of weeks, and haven't
had any particular problems beyond some occasional delays. Telenet seems to be
a tad faster, but I've also had a couple of interesting crashes on it, and the
logon to Telenet works strangely, to say the least.
At a guess, I'd say Tymnet offered a better deal to Delphi, hence the lower
rates. Ain't competition wonderful? Wonder if The Other Service knows this?
Wonder if they care?
--Damon
-*-
31032 1-AUG 22:27 General Information
RE: That Danged logon msg (Re: Msg 31029)
From: ZACKSESSIONS To: JAYTRUESDALE
The message did say that if you weren't sure which option you wanted to select
Oct. 1, and you would receive some followup message in the mail.
Zack
-*-
End of Thread.
-*-
31034 1-AUG 23:34 Programmers Den
RE: Problems with G/P buffers... (Re: Msg 30814)
From: IVANSC To: DODGECOLT
Is there a later version of Ed tha 1.6????
-*-
31040 2-AUG 18:21 Programmers Den
RE: Problems with G/P buffers... (Re: Msg 31034)
From: DODGECOLT To: IVANSC (NR)
Well, yes and no. I have been working on various new versions for a year or so,
but so far none of the new versions have been very successful. By not very
successful, they tended to crash the system or mutilate a file. I _will_ have a
new version (3.0) out pretty soon now (famous last words!), which hopefully will
end up a lot better than previous tries. BTW, this is the FOURTH rewrite of the
code...
-Mike
-*-
End of Thread.
-*-
31035 1-AUG 23:35 Utilities
RE: Ed (Re: Msg 30816)
From: IVANSC To: DODGECOLT
Okay now I know about th e new Ed. I have yet to try 1.6 actually, but there
you go. Noticed Eed seems to have trouble with colors reset by things like
Multivue and as I have had the same problem with OSterm wondered what the cure
is.
-*-
31041 2-AUG 18:22 Utilities
RE: Ed (Re: Msg 31035)
From: DODGECOLT To: IVANSC (NR)
If you have changed the default colors from the control program, then any new
windows that are created will used the new colors... Ed and OSTerm (and a lot
of other programs too!) expect the default color set.
-Mike
-*-
End of Thread.
-*-
31036 2-AUG 02:22 General Information
Copyrights
From: PAULSENIURA To: ALL
--> On 7-JUL at 23:00 in msg #30556, XLIONX wrote to ALL the subject of 'High
--> Horse':
--> Who the heck is PAULSENURIA to come out of nowhere about June 4th and claim
--> the RIGHTS to patches for shell v2.1 when they were on the forum with
--> explainations in April?
Read the first paragraph again, please. It says "This text and information is
(C)" and it is meant to be as_a_group since I wrote it that way as an "article"
and an instructional tool. You can do that, copyright the whole thing as a
group, if you wrote the whole thing yourself. And the protection I'm asking for
is to keep my text intact with no edits, deletions, or additions, without my
knowledge before you share the file somewhere else. I do not want someone
misquoting me when I didn't write it myself. That is the idea of a copyright
notice.
--> The patch to $1313 was from KNOT1 April-19. The patch to $130F was from
--> OS9UGVP April-21.
You can't protect other sources of information via a copyright notice, but you
sure can protect your own writings if it is new. I.e. you don't need any
permission to use the patches or to divulge them if they are already public
domain. You are NOT permitted to chop up my original article and discussions
and call them your own or to even call them "mine".
And I stand by my claim as I documented: "I have not been able to find any
other source for this article up to July 1 1990. Therefore I did my own
research without anyone's help or files in any way whatsoever." And I did give
credit to Mike Knudsen for leading me to where I needed to look: the Shell+ 2.1
code itself. (Someone uploaded a public-domain disassembler to our RiBBS beta-
test site a few years [yes YEARS] ago. And I did all of the work completely
from scratch.) (Your date of "about June 4th" is a whole month off btw. And my
name is spelled PAULSENIURA please! :-)
--> I don't mind people saying "For the good of the community I put this info
--> together, so here it is." but to claim RIGHTS to it (indignant pause)???
--> Sorry Paul, I don't buy it. Just blowing some steam.
It might be worthwhile to let me describe why I've resorted to copyrighting
anything I produce (my Weather_Radar.AR file is a prime example). As I did the
work to write that article (or software), I wish for the OS-9 users to have
access to it IN AN OFFICIAL FORMAT, not just "Message Number such-&-such" on
some SIG. See what I mean?
The original authors of Shell+ have changed, while I did have an account on CIS
for a few years which ended about 18 months ago, and Ron Lammardo (sp?) took it
over I believe for Shell+ 2.x. The general #31-page bug was known about for at
least these 18 months because before I dropped CIS 18 months ago, we *were*
talking about it. And when Mike Knudsen told me precisely why UME3 was not
working, we also immediately surmised that is why RiBBS v2.0 was acting up so
many times in odd ways. (Our beta-test site has been "up" since the old RiBBS
v0.1 was sent to me via CIS E-mail waaay back in 1986 if I remember right. I
still have lots of those old versions on diskettes together with Shell+ 1.2
believe it or not. We didn't see anything acting up until Shell+ 2.x was
invented and when we got RiBBS v2.0. Mike Knudsen's UME was still unknown,
also, during the early part of this time span, and I'll bet this #31-page
problem would have explained a whole lot of quirky things back then when Mike
let us have his first drafts of public-domain UME -- eh Mike?)
That was not the only occurrance of a situation that prompted me to start
copyrighting the things I do. Back in 1988 some dude downloaded a "strictly
test only" file from our BBS -- it was "test only" because Ron Bihler & a few of
us were *just* *barely* starting to test RiBBS v2.0. I found this file on a
local Macintosh board running Red Ryder[tm], and whose Sysop was one of two
who'd support the CoCo & OS-9 on his BBS. That circumstance was enough to get
me to include a character string consisting of '(C)_19xx_by_PDS' in everything
I do, regardless of the method we choose to share our work (e.g. public domain
or freeware, or Shareware, or just plain ol' trustworthy friends who promise
never to give anything out).
And I don't mind telling y'all that I'm taking a HUGE RISK by letting y'all
access my Weather_Radar.AR package for reasons stated in the docs therein. If
what happened on that Red Ryder board ever happens somewhere I can find out, I
will clamp down so hard that you and everyone else will hear about it and will
never ever see a thing from me again, even if I have an answer to someone's
question and am burning-up to divulge the answer.
One final item which totally irked me was how we invented several patches to
apply to GrfDrv to get it to use the other video modes in the ACVC/GIME chip. As
anyone who "saw" me on CIS back in late 1987 might remember, this particular
project was dear to my heart and NO ONE could help me -- not anyone. I found a
patch in Supercomm 1.07's AR not too much later and found it was sufficient to
put my project on the back-burner. Then I picked it back up when I glommed onto
several resources about the CoCo3 hardware, including Tandy's own very excellent
service books. I resorted to write a very extensive article on GrfDrv (giving
credit to Supercomm's authors of course, as well as Kevin Darling's "Inside OS9"
and the Tepco books), how it was designed to work, what it was doing, what our
patches ("OUR PATCHES") were doing to the video chips & modes, and most
importantly: Why we could never have a 225-line graphics mode (I'm *not* talking
about 28-line text mode). Rumors were starting, even back then, about the Level
2 updated version. But I wanted to get this article out to those designers last
year when we heard about the so-called CoCo4 rumors -- maybe, just maybe I
thought, we could entice someone like Kevin Darling into redesigning the way
GrfDrv's alternate system map works and make that 225-line graphics mode
available. So I uploaded the whole text file to GEnie, the only place I could
share this file nationally last year. (It had been on my RiBBS v2.0 beta-test
site quite a bit longer than that.) And later on last year, I discovered that
magically everyone knew of these patches -- and I am still wondering who blabbed
all that information without giving any of "us" some recognition. This text
file is still on GEnie for all I know (haven't checked it lately), and I don't
mind that people use it & share it (as I don't mind anyone using the file I
uploaded here that has caused you to stir). I dated and re-dated the GrfDrv
article as needed, and thanks to Kevin Darling & Chuck West (a local CoCo person
& Sysop), I once again updated our GrfDrv patches to include the "Christmas
GrfDrv". (Btw this article has a size of about 9,700 bytes in case ya see it
somewhere.)
THE BOTTOM LINE:
When information needs to be shared, this is the way to do it. One concise
place to access it and to check it once in a while for any updates. That is
precisely what BBSs, SIGs, and databases are for. But no one wants to do it
that way. So I am setting the standard on how to do it, trying to build an
information library that can be accessed via Keywords etc., and quickly checked
to see if anything was updated in any file.
One of the most frustrating experiences EVERYONE I KNOW HAS HAD regardless of
type/model of computer and o.s., is WHERE TO FIND WHAT I NEED TO KNOW. I can't
build this database up if everyone is going to ignore any such control over what
we're doing. I have ALREADY BEEN BURNED SEVERAL TIMES over these years.
Thus the copyright notice.
(p.s. I thought other Delphi users might have tried to explain this before I do,
but I see that no one has. So I'd appreciate it very much if we were understood
by why we copyright things before someone gets upset over it.)
(p.p.s. I want to express one more thought: In this article, I say "I had to
surmise certain functions as I found out what was really happening during the
course of my research. If the basic idea is not correct on some point, please
describe it precisely and technically. If you're not sure yourself of what you
speak, say so, and maybe we both can find out from the right sources ...".
Reviewing the recent Delphi messages here and re-reviewing my disassembled stuff
{and hand-written notes}, I still stand by my article 99%. And if for nothing
else, at least now I have the satisfaction that we've started "something" once
again that needs to be talked about! :-)
-*-
31050 3-AUG 20:21 General Information
RE: Copyrights (Re: Msg 31036)
From: XLIONX To: PAULSENIURA (NR)
Howdy PAULSENIURA,
Do you know (I am sure that you do) that the simple use of a disassembler on
copyrighted software constitutes a violation? The content of a program is
property of those who wrote it! Well, we are all such good friends here on the
system, and most of the folks who wrote these programs are so buisy that they
are probably HAPPY when someone else finds the bug. That may or may not be the
case. (watch out for the MAY NOTS).
As far as a standard goes...you should have submitted a draft to Ron for
permission to fiddle with his 'ware. If any one messed with your programs I have
the feeling that you would blow a fuse. And if they calimed a COPYRIGHT on that
change/patch (ooooohhhh).
I started on CIS back in '83 and moved to DELPHI in '86 (or was it '87? I was
with both for awhile) because of THE RAINBOW and the support found here.
The date I claimed was from a scan of messages from/to on this forum. I gave the
first date where your handle was encountered.
I am responding as a fellow forum user, I wish you no ill-will...but your l.
-mark w. farrell (PegaSystems) -XLIONX (DELPHI) -SIGOp ProSIG (Pinball Haven
RIBBS) -mwf@SANDV
-*-
31062 4-AUG 12:30 General Information
RE: Copyrights (Re: Msg 31036)
From: EDDIEKUNS To: PAULSENIURA (NR)
Just a quick comment. I believe the reason that the fellow (I can't remember
who) was angry at you was NOT because you copyrighted an article you wrote, but
at the feeling that you were copyrighting the PATCHES themselves. Indeed,
no-one would have complained if you uploaded a copyrighted program or wrote an
article on (I dunno, let's say) comparing all of the various OS-9 BBS's and
copyrighted that article.
I've heard a number of people (including yourself in your last message) refer
directly or indirectly to a "good-ole-boy network" of people who help each other
but no-one outside the network. In my experience on Delphi and on the
internet/bitnet CoCo list (and this experience starts only after about 1987),
people with information do everything they can to spread it about! Maybe the
world changed about when I joined Delphi. (?) (Which was Fall of '87) If such a
thing ever existed, I don't think it does any more.
Also, it seems a bit extreme to turn your back on the *ENTIRE* CoCo community
just because one bad apple disobeys your rules. (Re: some idiot posting that
upload of yours elsewhere.) If someone DOES do that, I hope you jump down THEIR
throat, but not the rest of ours!!!
Eddie
-*-
End of Thread.
-*-
31038 2-AUG 14:52 Device Drivers
SASI on the 4in1
From: XLIONX To: DISTO (NR)
Howdy Tony,
Is there a specific reason for the descriptors for /h0 and /dd using sas=1? I
have done some research on SASI and SCSI and I understand they work on a
slightly different "internal" method that the system I use (Burke&Burke). If it
is ok to set this higher, I think it would fix a friends problem (lots of
fragmenataion after reformat and restore of data (FHL: FBU and FRS)).
Also, does hdformat format one surface at a time? Can the standard FORMAT
command be used?
Questions: 1.) Why is SAS=1 in h0.dd and dd.dd for a 20Meg drive? 2.) Does
hdformat format one surface at a time? 3.) Can the standard FORMAT command be
used to format with a 4in1? 4.) Is there an optimum setup for a
ST225/wd1002-SHD(TAN)/4in1 system? 5.) Is there a big difference in system speed
if the system was SCSI instead?
Is there any truth to the rumor that you are going to come out with a 2Meg
adaptor for the COCO3? If so when/how much/etc...???
Thanks as allways -mark w. farrell (PegaSystems) -XLIONX (DELPHI) -SIGOp ProSIG
(Pinball Haven RIBBS (708) 428-8445) -mwf@SANDV
-*-
31093 6-AUG 01:39 Device Drivers
RE: SASI on the 4in1 (Re: Msg 31038)
From: KSCALES To: XLIONX
Mark -
Perhaps I can provide a few comments regarding your SASI questions to Tony -
1) The SAS=1 value in the original h0.dd and dd.dd should be changed. SAS is
actually used by RBF rather than the device driver, so similar values should be
used for a SASI system as for a B&B or Eliminator system, for the same size
drive.
Your question on SAS has prompted me to add some notes on this in the Doc file
for the latest version of my enhanced SASI driver patches, which I uploaded
Sunday morning.
2) and 3) I am not familiar with hdformat. Use the regular OS-9 Format command.
First, use dmode/hmode to set the skip factor to 3 for the ST225/WD1002-SHD(TAN)
combination.
4) Everybody has their own opinions as to what is optimum <grin>, but for the
4in1/ST225/WD1002-SHD(TAN) setup, I suggest STP=5, ILV=3, SAS=$08 to $20 (no
real hard-and-fast rules here -- it's a compromise between several factors), and
(here comes the plug...) install the CCHDSASI.ar driver patch that I have
uploaded. (Get the new version which should become visible in the database
within a couple of days.)
5) No, there isn't a big difference in system speed for SCSI over SASI --
actually, SCSI has a very slight additional processing overhead over SASI. Times
using Bruce Isted's Megaread come out about the same. If, by "system speed" you
are referring to multitasking while disk I/O is occurring, well, um... that's
what my driver patch is all about.
Good luck... let me know if I can help further.
... / Ken
-*-
31099 6-AUG 21:30 Device Drivers
RE: SASI on the 4in1 (Re: Msg 31093)
From: XLIONX To: KSCALES
Howdy Ken,
Thank you so much for the reply (you back up my opinion nicely). I just thoughtt
of something...Tonys drive (the guy with the problems) was probably formated and
the driver probably read the LSN0 stuff into the PD section and ignored the
discriptor. (Probably why it was working before and not now.) My flopp controler
is a SARDIS DMC No/Halt with a modified version of SDISK3 (DPJ) and this does
the same thing. Nice for fast handling of SSDD, DSDD, 35tk,40tk etc...
Guess I'll have to learn more about someone elses system than I wanted to. (
Kinda like a detective <grin> you ALLWAYS find something you wish you hadn't)!
-Mark W. Farrell (PegaSystems) -XLIONX (DELPHI) -SIGOp ProSIG (Pinball Haven
RiBBS (v2.0) (708) 428-8445) -mwf@SANDV
-*-
End of Thread.
-*-
31046 2-AUG 22:49 General Information
New additions to the editor
From: GREGL To: ALL
I have noticed that some of you have been including quotes from other members in
your text. But, as you have probably noticed, simply beginning the line with
pointers (>> or -->) often gets wrapped with the text and the end result looks
like a mess. There are two solutions to this problem. In the first solution, you
can begin each line with a space to disable wrapping for that line, as follows:
>> Notice that these lines
>> do not wrap even though
>> they are shorter than
>> your screen width.
The problem with this method is that it assumes the user is using the same
screen width you are. If you format the text for 80 columns, it might look funny
to a user with a 40-column screen. A better method is to use the ".LM n
/ANNOT=<string>" command. As you are probably aware, the ".LM n" command sets
the left margin to column 'n'. Any text included after the equal sign in the
/ANNOT subcommand is printed in the gutter. For example, I use the .LM 4
/ANNOT=>> command in the next paragraph:
>> As you can see, all of the text in this paragraph begins at column 5 and the
>> text ">>" is printed in the "gutter." You can also use this command along
>> with the .LT (literal) command for bullet lists. Right now I am going to end
>> this with the .LM 0 command.
Now the text is flush against the left margin. The .LT command disables line
wrapping until the .EL (end literal) command is used. For example, I am going to
demonstrate a bullet list by using .LT and .LM 3 /ANNOT=o on the next two lines:
o Now we have
o a list with
o "bullets" flush
o at the left margin.
And now it is turned off by using .LM 0 and .EL to reset everything to default.
Keep in mind that all dot commands must begin a new line with no spaces to the
left of the period. These commands are much more versatile than trying to format
it manually with a word processor. If you compose the message off-line, insert
these commands into your document and let Delphi format it for you!
-- Greg
-*-
31047 3-AUG 02:39 General Information
RE: New additions to the editor (Re: Msg 31046)
From: KNOT1 To: GREGL
Greg,
Thanks for that information. I didn't know about the "/ANNOT=" option. Is
there a way to make long lines to start at the margin, but to be indented when
they wrap around, like when you read replies in the Voting area?
-Jamie (KNOT1)-
-*-
31055 3-AUG 22:14 General Information
RE: New additions to the editor (Re: Msg 31047)
From: GREGL To: KNOT1
The only way I know to do that is to enter the first sentence and follow it with
a .LM n command. I'll try it here so you can see what it'll look like:
First line of a paragraph. Second line of a paragraph that is either going to be
tacked onto the above or indented on its own. I really don't know if this is
going to wrap properly but I have my doubts.
Now for the test. Let's see what happens to the above paragraph.
Well, it looks like it does work. In the above paragraph, I typed the first
sentence, put .LM 5 on the next line, and finished the paragraph on the lines
following. In the editor it looks like:
This is the first sentence.
.LM 5
This is the remainder of the paragraph . . .
.LM 0
<blank line>
So, to do what you are asking you could type the first few words, press ENTER,
and finish typing the rest of the paragraph. If you want to continue that style
into the next paragraph, include .LM 0 at the end of the paragraph (as above),
enter a blank line to separate the paragraphs, and continue as above.
-- Greg
-*-
31059 4-AUG 04:10 General Information
RE: New additions to the editor (Re: Msg 31055)
From: KNOT1 To: GREGL
Thanks, Greg. Looks good. Just one more thing. How come my ".center;" didn't
work? It's on page 373 of the '87 Guide. Is it not supported in forum, or am I
doing something wrong? I'll try again here.
-Jamie (KNOT1)-
-*-
31061 4-AUG 10:07 General Information
RE: New additions to the editor (Re: Msg 31059)
From: GREGL To: KNOT1
Oh, I meant to tell you about that. Apparently you have .center;-Jamie... with
no spaces. All you need is .C -Jamie (KNOT1)- in order for it to work properly,
and don't forget the space after the C.
Greg
-*-
End of Thread.
-*-
31049 3-AUG 19:44 Applications
RS-DOS disk routine
From: RTHOM To: ALL
About a year ago, from a local source who has since moved to California and
gotten lost, I got a 10- or 15-byte routine in BASIC that allowed access to both
sides of a 5.25 inch diskette. That routine resided since on the "system" disk
that also contained a large number of BASIC programs and routines. In the
course of copying files from disk to disk last week, it got erased. Can anyone
help by putting me next to a) the same routine (I gather it's rather well-known
in ), b) a similar program that will do the same job, or c)a disk recovery
program that will enable me to go into the disk and knock off that DELETE byte
from the directory track... Hopefully...Ray Thompson
-*-
31067 4-AUG 14:20 Users Group
RE: Advent (Re: Msg 30181)
From: EASYSINGLES To: GREGL
Thank you so very much. That will make several people very happy. Bob Dorrell
-*-
31068 4-AUG 20:34 General Information
Cave Walker
From: DRDUDE To: ALL
Today I tried to load Cave Walker (OS-9 LEVEL I GAME) into my 512k OS-9 LEVEL II
system... Everything was alright UNTIL I tried to press my button to jump,
everything stopped until I let go of the button, and then my man never jumped.
If I kept on pressing my button I could get an accasional jump out of it!! Does
anyone know what's wrong here???
Thanks,
Dr. Dude
-*-
31079 5-AUG 05:19 General Information
RE: Cave Walker (Re: Msg 31068)
From: THEFERRET To: DRDUDE
I hate to bring the obvious up, but are you SURE your joysticks are ok? I have
had the rotten Tandy joysticks for some time, and a "feature" of them is that,
after a certain amount of use, the buttons jam like that. The game pausing is
an interesting feature, but it could just be badly written. A quickie check for
this, I suppose, would be to make that situation happen again, and unplug the
joystick. If things continue after that point, it has to be the joystick. For
your sake, I hope that this is the case. a certain amount of fiddleing, babying,
and un/re-assembling can fix the joystick, but who knows what could potentially
be wrong with the computer.
Phil B.
-*-
31100 6-AUG 21:45 General Information
RE: Cave Walker (Re: Msg 31079)
From: DRDUDE To: THEFERRET
That isn't the problem! I have even bought a NEW joystick (the old one broke)
The buttons work ok, and when I boot up Cave Walker from the boot that came with
it (a stripped version of OS-9 LEVEL I) it works OK, BUT when I boot it using
OS-9 LEVEL II, the problems arise... anyone else got any ideas?
-Dr. Dude
-Andy DePue
-*-
31103 7-AUG 00:28 General Information
RE: Cave Walker (Re: Msg 31100)
From: DWHILL To: DRDUDE
I got my copy to work okay under Level II, but only the original book disk. So
I know it will work okay, but have no idea what your problem is.
--Damon
-*-
31147 10-AUG 20:56 General Information
RE: Cave Walker (Re: Msg 31103)
From: DRDUDE To: DWHILL
HHHmmmm... If I load in Cave Walker using the origonal boot disk (by sticking in
the disk and typing dos), it works, BUT, I want it to work with OS-9 LEVEL II!!!
-Andy DePue
-*-
31151 10-AUG 22:51 General Information
RE: Cave Walker (Re: Msg 31147)
From: DWHILL To: DRDUDE (NR)
Cave Walker does require a VDG display window. I got it to work using my
original Level II boot disk, and then chding and chxing over to the CW disk.
One of these days I'm going to figure out how to start up a VDG window on my
existing book disk; I think it requires a specific VDG driver.
--Damon
-*-
31153 11-AUG 00:59 General Information
RE: Cave Walker (Re: Msg 31151)
From: ROYBUR To: DWHILL (NR)
I don't know if it can create a problem I haven't encountered yet, but I just
put vdgint.io in my boot - in addition to windint.io. Then use xmode to change
one of my window descriptors to type 80 (if I remember correctly!!!) and CLEAR
key to that window to run Leisure Suit Larry, King's Quest 3 or whatever.As I
said, no problems so far. And yes, I know the manual says not to do that, but {
fiI figured what the heck, try it, and it worked! Hope this helps.
Roy
this morning. - Rw{_.{_{S~{{v{u!zV {YWc3yMxD~rw3
-*-
End of Thread.
-*-
31073 5-AUG 00:50 Graphics & Music
RE: Ultimuse III (Re: Msg 30944)
From: RAGTIMER To: OS9BERT
OK Bert, glad that problem finally went away, and stayed gone! About the printer
-- have you set XMODE /P -LF? Sure you must have-- so maybe the problem is
elsewhere. What make & model printer are you using? And what verision of
Umuse3? I just finallky got (I think) the anceint Gemini 10X mode working for
another customer.
Maybe your printer is running off the right margin and throwing in a freebie
CRLF of its own. If your printer is not one of my "official" types, what mode
comes closest? Sorry if you told me thjis all a year ago, but it's what happens
to your brain when you wear helmets and seatbelts, grin.
-*-
31084 5-AUG 15:34 Graphics & Music
RE: Ultimuse III (Re: Msg 31073)
From: OS9BERT To: RAGTIMER (NR)
It is already set to XMODE /p -lf. I am using the Star NX-1000. I have it set
that way so that the few times I use RS-DOS, the printing will come out correct.
It supports either IBM or EPSOM printer drivers. I thought it might be an easy
patch to your code to take out the extra line feed or return character.
Thanks Bert Schneider
-*-
End of Thread.
-*-
31074 5-AUG 00:54 Programmers Den
RE: Program Development Tool (Re: Msg 30945)
From: RAGTIMER To: OS9BERT
Bert, that's a GREAT idea! Maybe I should hotwire my SS Pak! I had seriously
considered sending Morce Code signals thru the beeper to debug some flakey
Umuse3 grafix (new features), but why use CW when you cana get on phone (even if
it sounds like SSB, grin). 73, mike k
-*-
31078 5-AUG 05:11 Programmers Den
RE: Program Development Tool (Re: Msg 30945)
From: THEFERRET To: OS9BERT
I noticed you have the ssp device. I can echo text through it fine. But how
can I get three-voice sound through it?
-*-
31085 5-AUG 15:35 Programmers Den
RE: Program Development Tool (Re: Msg 31074)
From: OS9BERT To: RAGTIMER (NR)
I find it is a very useful tool. I am surprised that more people have not tried
it (or said anything about it). I only paid $14 for mine when a small Radio
Shack store went under back in Omaha, NE. It seems you an get some good deals
on stuff when stores go under, but it is sad that they are doing so.
Bert
-*-
31086 5-AUG 15:37 Programmers Den
RE: Program Development Tool (Re: Msg 31078)
From: OS9BERT To: THEFERRET
There is a program here in the new uploads section that can handle that for you.
You need to use their drivers (or roll your own). It works great! Bert
-*-
31095 6-AUG 03:31 Programmers Den
RE: Program Development Tool (Re: Msg 31086)
From: THEFERRET To: OS9BERT (NR)
E devices to my os9boot!
-*-
End of Thread.
-*-
31080 5-AUG 13:09 Programmers Den
RE: HINTS ON C COMPILER (Re: Msg 30609)
From: ALWAGNER To: ZACKSESSIONS
Sorry it took so long for me to reply. July {_has been a busy month for me. I
have SuperComm, but the latest version states that the instructions are in a
previous version. The old version is in a file so large I can't fit it in my
buffer. So I have a program that starts, but I can't get past the opening
credits because I don't have the docs!
I'll have to check out OSTerm and KBCom, but I seem to recall that they too
are larger than my buffer. (approx 40k) Yes, I do have an RS deluxe 232 pack.
(I know the RS in RS232 does not stand for Radio Shack)
Thanks for the reply.
AlWagner
-*-
31081 5-AUG 13:46 Programmers Den
SS.ScTyp
From: ZACKSESSIONS To: ALL
It was my impression that the I$GetStt SS.ScTyp call returns a value of 0 in
register A if the current window is a VDG type window. That does not appear to
be true. WHen I try it, it returns an error 208, Illegal Service Request. How
can I tell if my current window is a window device or a VDG window?
Thanks,
Zack
-*-
31082 5-AUG 14:28 Programmers Den
RE: SS.ScTyp (Re: Msg 31081)
From: XLIONX To: ZACKSESSIONS
Howdy Z/S, <grin>
First, consider the support modules for this call: GrfInt and WindInt.
They know absolutely NOTHING about VDG screens. You could probably use an error
trap and if it DOES error then it is/was a VDG screen. I have not seen any info
on the SS.ScType returning '0' in register A, only 1-8.
I was just "bit" (or was it BYTED <grin>) by a simmalar critter. Vermitious
Knid.
-Mark W. Farrell (PegaSystems) -XLIONX (DELPHI) -SIGOp ProSIG (Pinball Haven
RiBBS (v2.0) (708) 428-8445) -mwf@SANDV
-*-
31083 5-AUG 15:04 Programmers Den
RE: SS.ScTyp (Re: Msg 31082)
From: ZACKSESSIONS To: XLIONX
You're right that the manual implies that VDG screen are not supported by the
call, but there was a discussion on this forum some months back which someone
mentioned that a zero was returned for a VDG window. I even penciled in the
comment in my manual at the time. I have resorted to just check for an error
status in the meantime, unless someone else can explain why the comment was made
and how it can be done.
Thanks,
Zack
-*-
31098 6-AUG 21:13 Programmers Den
RE: SS.ScTyp (Re: Msg 31083)
From: XLIONX To: ZACKSESSIONS
U velcome!
-mark
-*-
End of Thread.
-*-
31089 5-AUG 19:00 General Information
OS9
From: JBURKE To: ALL
After years of false starts with OS9, I've purchased and sold everything that
came along through level 1, level 2, Multivue and all the rest, books and all, I
still find myself wondering what's to be had with OS9. I hear about a new book
out that is easier to understand and doesn't have all the typo's and errors the
Tandy books had. The errors were devestating to me as a beginner, I couldn't get
anything to work because of the typos in the manuals. So, once again, I'm
looking at OS9.....What book to buy, what is the proper thing to do
?????JBURKE...COCO SIG
-*-
31092 5-AUG 22:59 General Information
RE: OS9 (Re: Msg 31089)
From: ZACKSESSIONS To: JBURKE
Try "Start OS9" by Paul Ward.
-*-
31096 6-AUG 03:34 General Information
RE: OS9 (Re: Msg 31092)
From: THEFERRET To: JBURKE
I wouldn't say that the errors in the manual are devasttating to a _beginner_.
The manual is quite sufficient to start out , get things running, and do a
surprising number of things.
I'm not saying it's EASY.
but it's quite possible :-)
(I managed)
Got any Specific questions?
Phil B
-*-
31116 8-AUG 02:45 General Information
RE: OS9 (Re: Msg 31096)
From: JBURKE To: THEFERRET
Well, I'm afraid I differ about the maual. When I first started I had no idea
about the need for accuracy in the commands and spaces, slashes, etc. AND when I
entered what the manual said to enter and got nothing but error messages, I was
completly baffled. Now that I know there errors I might not be so intimidated,
but at the time it was just too much...JBURKE
-*-
31129 9-AUG 01:42 General Information
RE: OS9 (Re: Msg 31116)
From: THEFERRET To: JBURKE (NR)
I know it bugged the hell out of me trying to get started. But tell me some
of the main errors in the manual, that the starting up user would encounter. PB
-*-
End of Thread.
-*-
31094 6-AUG 01:41 General Information
Disto SCSI Driver
From: KSCALES To: ALL
As requested by some folks, I have created a SCSI version of my patches for the
Disto Hard Drive interfaces.
This improved driver reduces the duration of interrupt masking and adds
"F$Sleep" calls to reduce CPU hogging, providing a reduction in lost characters
on the RS232 port, and eliminating "choppiness" in multi-tasking. This driver
is fully compatible with the MPI, although even better performance is available
without the MPI. Support for the "Park" command has also been added.
So far, I have 2 "alpha test" users who have been having good success with the
patched SCSI driver.
Before I release the patch generally, however, I would like to have a couple of
beta testers check it out under the following configurations:
- System with a multipak (both of my alpha testers use a 4in1 without MPI)
- Two hard drive setup (especially one using 2 embedded-SCSI drives, but
also interested in 2 drives off single SCSI controller).
If you are interested in being a "Beta Tester" for this updated driver, please
leave me an Email message.
Cheers... / Ken
-*-
31101 6-AUG 22:05 Patches
Step Rate Fix
From: JANG To: KSCALES
Well, Hello again Ken...
It seems like all I have been doing lately is saying "Thanks" to you.. As it
turns out, that information you gave me regarding how to change the step rates
on my /H0 & /DD worked GREAT.. I popped in step=07 on both and my whole system
runs a lot faster now.. and No errors of ANY kind.. again.. Thanks.
Jerry A. (JANG)
-*-
31105 7-AUG 01:31 General Information
RE: OSK'er magazine (Re: Msg 30912)
From: KENHALTER To: JENG
Where can I find the OSK'er.
Ken Halter
-*-
31132 9-AUG 21:04 General Information
RE: OSK'er magazine (Re: Msg 31105)
From: JENG To: KENHALTER (NR)
Ken, The address of OSK'er magazine is; StG Computers Inc. P.O. Box 24285
Speedway IN. 46224 Phone number 317 241-6401 The first issue has interviews with
Frank Hogg, Paul Ward, and Kevin Darling and other goodies related to OS9/OSK!
Hope that helps ! John Eng
-*-
End of Thread.
-*-
31111 7-AUG 03:46 General Information
Group Attributes
From: BRIANWHITE To: OS9UGPRES (NR)
Kev,
I was't actually going to pass the following along to you because I figured that
you were only writing window drivers. But then I got thinking that if anybody
could do such patches, it would be you. And if making these patches part of the
packaged OS wasn't up your alley, well, you'd know whose alley to send it. I'm
sure you read this elsewhere in the forum, but I thought I'd pass it on to you
just to make it "official". You really do do a helluva lot for our favorite
computers!
---------------
You know... With a little bit of patching, I suppose it would be possible to
limit the number of file segments to 47 and use the last 5 bytes of the file
descriptor sector for group information stuff. Then, the full user number could
be patched back into the original two bytes (like OS-9)! That would give 16-bit
user number in the same place OS-9 keeps it, a 16-bit group number, a 3-bit
group attribute, and 21 bits remaining for other stuff. And, compatibility
problems would be close to nil! User numbers would have to be changed anyways
and the only way the new segment limit of 47 would cause a problem was if a
48-segment file from an un-patched system was read (an EXTREMELY unlikely
situation).
---------------
I've passed the above paragraph on to several people I thought might be able to
implement such a patch, but if anyone has any more people in mind, please pass
the idea around... It would be nice to see someone who helped port the OSk
kernal take up the patch and make it an actual part of the OS instead of a patch
that can be implemented. Then Scott Griepentrog (from the OSKer) could retract
his statements about the way OSk handles groups!
Brian
-*-
31112 7-AUG 05:49 New Uploads
Tetris
From: KMTHOMPSON To: ALL
Hello!
Here's a fun idea for everyone who's downloaded DODGECOLT's (Mike
Sweet's) Tetris. Once you've gotten the hang of it, use OS-9's windows to
make it even harder: First quit or kill everything that's happening on
your system (in other words do this when you're bored and you're not
compiling anything. :-) Then get shells running in 2 or 3 windows of Type
1. Change TERM to Type 1 if necessary. (A good util to change window
types is called WTYPE, and it's here in the databases somewhere.) Anywho,
back from my tangent. . . Now load in Tetris from wherever you have it
stored, and type 'tetris' in all windows. Start the game in one window and
after you've positioned the dropping piece where you want it to land, move
to the next window and start that game. Continue this until all games are
started. Then continue pressing <clear> to change to each game,
positioning pieces as quickly as possible, but never dropping them, unless
you have a death wish. Now the reason for no other programs running
becomes apparent. If there are other windows open, you will have to flip
through them between game screens, which gets annoying. I've found that 3
games at once seems quite sufficient to keep me busy! (Level 0 by the
way.) After you die in one screen, you'll basically just have to keep
flipping through it while you still have more than one game left. So, in
effect we have 3-D Tetris built into our OS-9 systems! Let's see 'em do
this on a clone!! :-)
--Mr. ]<elly Thompson
P.S. I just tried it in ten windows at once, (only one had a shell,
however). It's basically impossible, and the response is just a tad slow,
but hey, whataya expect?? :-)
-*-
31115 7-AUG 22:26 Graphics & Music
microscopic mission
From: AARONS To: ALL
Has any one seen this !
1) I down loaded MICRO MISSION/MULTIVUE from the Utilities database and PATCHES
FOR MICROSCOPIC MISSION from the Patches database.
2) Installed exactly as per instructions.
3) I have vdgint.io in my boot
4) After installing the patches, I click on the microscope icon
Error 208 (illegal service request) flashes briefly on a vdg screen and
then disappears. What is this ??
-*-
31117 8-AUG 04:18 Tutorials & Education
RE: OS9 (Re: Msg 28190)
From: DANMONDAY To: THEFERRET
the problem I described earlier still exists... even with a friends config disk.
just before the time 50/60 hz a cant creat bootlist error 214 214 is no
permission... therefore I think the file os9gen may need a attr pw pe.... does
this sound logical ????? this must be a wide spread problem... more than just
me... can you help... do you have any idea why 214 is generated ???
Dan Monday
-*-
31121 8-AUG 19:45 Tutorials & Education
RE: OS9 (Re: Msg 31117)
From: DCJR To: DANMONDAY (NR)
Dan, when Config asks for a disk name, what are you typing in?
I had no end of trouble with Config until I figured out that it didn't want a
disk name, it wanted a DRIVE name!
Answer the "Disk Name:" prompt with /d0, and see if this solves the problem.
This is the Dougie macro Doug James
-*-
31128 9-AUG 01:41 Tutorials & Education
RE: OS9 (Re: Msg 31117)
From: THEFERRET To: DANMONDAY (NR)
The key is, can't CREATE bootlist. you do realise you have to format the disk
you want for a new system master, FIRST, yah? :-)
(I'll lay 8/5 odds that's what you forgot. am I right, am I right :-] )
-*-
End of Thread.
-*-
31119 8-AUG 19:40 Programmers Den
Window Procedure
From: PHILSCHERER To: ALL
I'm trying to use the code in Dale Pucketts procedure in July Rainbow. Procedure
line number 7000 opens a window etc. It is supposed to allow switching back and
forth to the calling window. The result I get is to go to the new window and
execute the new procedure but the original window is gone. When the procedure
finishes, I get a blank screen until I bounce back and forth with the clear key.
Then the original window appears. Help!!
-*-
31125 9-AUG 00:43 Programmers Den
RE: Window Procedure (Re: Msg 31119)
From: DALEP To: PHILSCHERER
Phil,
The WindInt you have in your system may be different than mine. The code runs
ok here and in Prospect. Drop Kevin Darling a note and ask him if he knows why
that problem would pop up. He might be able to offer a hint. Thanks. Dale
-*-
31127 9-AUG 01:38 Programmers Den
RE: Window Procedure (Re: Msg 31119)
From: KNOT1 To: PHILSCHERER
Phil (right?),
OS-9 programs normally only have one window as thier "current" window (selected)
, unless the new window in INIZ'ed in some manner, I believe. I haven't typed
in that program, but your problem seems to be in the way OS-9 handles windows.
Nothing to worry about unless you can't get the program to work the way it is
suppose to. It is possible to write programs to do what you want to do though,
if necessary.
-Jamie (KNOT1)-
-*-
31131 9-AUG 19:15 Programmers Den
RE: Window Procedure (Re: Msg 31127)
From: PHILSCHERER To: KNOT1
Hi Jamie--If you have that rainbow, It's line 7000 onward. Dale Puckett says it
works for him and suggests I may have a problem with my windint. Thanks for the
reply!!
-*-
31144 10-AUG 03:46 Programmers Den
RE: Window Procedure (Re: Msg 31131)
From: KNOT1 To: PHILSCHERER (NR)
Phil,
Assuming that you've typed it all in correctly and it still doesn't work, try
this:
1) Take the RUN command at offset 01B5 and move it to between 013E and 015F.
2) Change the "0" in that command to "oldpath(0)".
Try it and let me know if it does anything for you. Hope this helps.
-Jamie (KNOT1)-
-*-
31159 11-AUG 10:01 Programmers Den
RE: Window Procedure (Re: Msg 31119)
From: AARONS To: PHILSCHERER (NR)
I am having a similar problem with MVfinance in the 7000 routine. If I find a
fix I'll let you know, please let me know if you do.
Aaron s
-*-
End of Thread.
-*-
31120 8-AUG 19:41 Programmers Den
POS Command: BASIC09
From: DONLOCKWOOD To: ALL
I have a question concerning the POS command in BASIC09. Its maximum value seems
to be 255. It would be handy if the value could be changed. Is this possible?
Thanks, Don Lockwood [DONLOCKWOOD]
-*-
31122 8-AUG 19:57 Graphics & Music
UmuseIII upgrade
From: DONLOCKWOOD To: ALL
I sent for an upgrade for UmuseIII several weeks ago. I am concerned because
somewhere in a forum I read that someone had tryed to contact 2nd City and their
number had been discontinued. Who knows what's what?
Don Lockwood [DONLOCKWOOD]
-*-
31124 9-AUG 00:09 General Information
Hard Drive Help!
From: MATTSINGER To: ALL
I am in quite a dilemma. I am going to have the money for a nice hard drive
system VERY soon, but I don't know which way to go. Owl Ware? Disto? Burke? I
have a SC-II, so I can use the Disto boards. I also have an open MPI slot. (#3,
of course) There are two main drives that I have been looking at: the ST238R
and ST250R from Seagate. They are both RLL drives. <and at a very reasonable
price> Is there anyone out there that can say whether or not these are good
drives to use? Do they have the correct type of interface? (I believe the
ST250R has an ST-412, but don't I need ST-506?) I have NO specs whatsoever on
the ST238R. What I am looking for is a setup that is both easy to set up and
also is pretty much no frills. Can anyone reccomend which interface I should
use? Seems as if I am leaning towards Burke & Burke right now, using a
controller from a local dealer that I KNOW has no problems with the B&B. HELP!
-*-
31126 9-AUG 00:50 General Information
RE: windows (Re: Msg 30920)
From: DALEP To: AARONS
Aaron, not sure about the color of the cursor and text. I get the proper text
color here and never pay any attention to the color of the cursor.
Re: the EOF question. The shells that "erased the window" were not immortal
shells. They can and will go away when they receive an EOF signal. However,
the immortal shells will simply start up again unless you kill them with an ex
command and then deiniz the window. Hope this explanation helps. Dale
-*-
31130 9-AUG 18:32 General Information
UPGRADE REPAIR
From: FROGLEGS To: ALL
IS THERE ANYWAY TO TEST AN UPGRADE TO SEE IF IT STILL WORKS MY COCO BLEW UP AND
TANDY SAID THAT THE UPGRADE (MADE BY DISTO)WAS DAMAGED I PLUGGED IT BACK INTO
THE SLOTS FOR IT BUT COULD NOT GET ANY READING,IN FACT IT FROZE UP THE MACHINE
-*-
31133 9-AUG 22:29 General Information
Hard Drives
From: COLINMCKAY To: MATTSINGER
Hi, Matt.
Just a few notes from personal experience. For about two years I
used a B&B system with an ST-238R hard drive and an Adaptec
controller. The system was quite easy to set up, and proved to be
quite rugged. Another local user, Ken Scales (KSCALES) is running
an identical system with virtually no problems. The system is also
nice and cheap, and comes with some very handy utilities, such as
EZGEN. I have since switched to an Eliminator, as I will be turning
my system into a BBS once the MM/1 becomes available. The person I
sold the system to has had no problems whatsoever with the system.
The other advantage of the system is that it uses a stock PC
controller card. A big plus if you ever go the PC route, or sell
the drive and controller. I do recommend getting the realtime clock,
as well as the Boot rom.
It worked very smoothly doing buffer captures to the floppy, and
the no-halt type-ahead was very smooth and fast. The Eliminator
is a lot faster, using that drive, but it also costs a lot more.
I really don't know that much about the Owl and Disto systems,
except that with the Disto system, there are new drivers out
written by Ken Scales, which are available here. They work a lot
better than the ones written by Brian Lantz.
-*-
31152 11-AUG 00:18 General Information
RE: Hard Drives (Re: Msg 31133)
From: MATTSINGER To: COLINMCKAY (NR)
Thanks! I think that is the way I am going to go....I have heard though that
alot of people I know have had BAD luck with Seagate. I was able to find 40 meg
Miniscribes for $225...I know someone who has SEVERAL 65 meg and 40 meg
Miniscribe's and they are good drives. Well, wish me luck! :-)
-*-
End of Thread.
-*-
31136 10-AUG 00:30 Grits & Gravy
d3
From: DWEBER To: ALL
i have a d3 driver in my boot but cant get it to work. dd works d0 works d1
works d2 works d3 does not work. i have descriptors for four drives but only 3
work. [ d3 device discriptor if you cant have four drives? perhaps someone more
enlightened than me can explain it too me. THANKS
-*-
31137 10-AUG 01:09 Grits & Gravy
RE: d3 (Re: Msg 31136)
From: THEFERRET To: DWEBER (NR)
first, of course, you have to have 4 drives :-) then , you have to get the
appropriate WIRING in the cables/drives so that the drives know thata they are
supposed to be drive # x. I don'T know what wiring , precisely, but some other
people here do.
-*-
31146 10-AUG 13:02 Grits & Gravy
RE: d3 (Re: Msg 31136)
From: RCAREY To: DWEBER (NR)
I've been told that If you've got double sided drives, it limits the number of
drives you can add. I don't know if this is true for your set up, but apparantly
if you use 1 double sided drive then you can only add 2 ss drives... I'm not
sure of the full implications of this are but This may provide a lead. If all
your drives are single sided then disregard this.
-*-
End of Thread.
-*-
31138 10-AUG 01:34 General Information
RE: Your 2 minute C lesson for today... (Re: Msg 30891)
From: TIMKIENTZLE To: EDDIEKUNS (NR)
I'll have to check to see if I have last years floating around. I do have this
years winners, though. I'll get it uploaded here soon. Good luck compiling
them, though!
- Tim
-*-
31141 10-AUG 01:45 General Information
RE: Your 2 minute C lesson for today... (Re: Msg 30774)
From: TIMKIENTZLE To: RICKADAMS
So, anyone know where we can find a PD C preprocessor to replace the Microware
one? Geez, if we get a few people working on it, we could maybe replace the
Microware compiler piece by piece! <grin>
- Tim
-*-
31142 10-AUG 01:49 General Information
RE: Your 2 minute C lesson for today... (Re: Msg 31141)
From: RICKADAMS To: TIMKIENTZLE (NR)
Don't laugh, some of us have considered doing just that! (Replacing the
Microware C compiler piece by piece.) Greg keeps peeling the pieces open with a
disassember, and... :-)
-*-
End of Thread.
-*-
31139 10-AUG 01:36 Device Drivers
RE: COCO2 WORD PROCESSORS! (Re: Msg 30867)
From: TIMKIENTZLE To: DWHILL
It's actually quite doable, it's just a pain. WordStar was pretty crude in some
ways, though. It could only re-format a paragraph at a time, and it didn't keep
track of things like page breaks and such. I've heard that Stylo is pretty
capable along those lines.
I actually uploaded an article to the database here explaining some of the
necessary tricks. Don't have time to actually implement any of it, though.
<sigh>
- Tim
-*-
31145 10-AUG 07:20 Device Drivers
RE: COCO2 WORD PROCESSORS! (Re: Msg 31139)
From: TRIX To: TIMKIENTZLE (NR)
Sorry, Tim, but I beg to differ with you on one point. Although it's true that
WordStar only re-formats one paragraph at a time and that the format for an
entire paragraph is determined by the first line (which makes hanging indents
REAL interesting if you reformat a lot), it DOES keep track of page breaks.
-John.
-*-
End of Thread.
-*-
31140 10-AUG 01:38 General Information
RE: CoCo 4? (Re: Msg 30871)
From: TIMKIENTZLE To: PKW (NR)
Whoops! Looks like I missed you. Oh, well. I've been off for two weeks
getting married, so I haven't had time to get on Delphi. Oh, well. Looks like
I'll just have to wait until I buy one before I get to see it in action <grin>.
- Tim
-*-
31149 10-AUG 22:03 Patches
shell+ patch
From: AARONS To: ALL
Help!,
When I try to patch shell+ v2.1 (file size 6323) Feb-89 MAREK from the
Applications data base, with the shell_plus21.pat patch (file size 7936) from
the New uploads data base, This is what happens:
ipatch shellplus21.pat shellplus shellplus.patched
shellplus size is incorrect
can't patch
error #001- Unconditional abort
OS9:
Has anyone seen this problem ??? What am I doing wrong ??
Aarons
-*-
31150 10-AUG 22:26 General Information
UUCP port
From: RICKADAMS To: GREGL
Just thought I'd mention to you publicly what you already know... I have
written a UUCP implementation for OS9 Level II, written in C. I am now running
my Color Computer 3 as a UUCP site, node name "ccentral". My email address via
the UUCP network is thusly ...!apple!fico2!ccentral!rickadams.
Mark Griffiths on CIS is also working on a UUCP implementation for those on that
system, and has been up and running as site "rewop" for about four months now.
Mark and I have been corresponding, and he is being very cooperative with me in
helping with various things, and I am likewise lending assistance to him, as I
am able.
(Whoops, I did it AGAIN! His name is "Mark Griffith". I have a friend whose
last name is "Griffiths", and it throws me off. :-) )
Neither Mark nor I are ready to release yet, but we will be in the somewhat near
future.
Anyone wishing to help me out in my development efforts should get in touch with
me.
-- Rick Adams / Color Central Software / ...!apple!fico2!ccentral!rickadams
-*-
31155 11-AUG 02:32 General Information
RE: UUCP port (Re: Msg 31150)
From: THEFERRET To: RICKADAMS
I know (or at least think I know :-) ) that UUCP is for internet mail. But
for those of us in the dark, how about a short summary of the methods used.
That is to say, the approximate Algorythm, not the code.
I ask this because I was of the opinion that one needed ethernet cards, so
as to be linked to internet, to be a UUCP site, and I am not aware of any
Ethernet cards for the CoCo III !!
Philip
-*-
31160 11-AUG 11:00 General Information
RE: UUCP port (Re: Msg 31155)
From: RICKADAMS To: THEFERRET (NR)
Your confusion is a common one... you need to have Ethernet to be hooked to the
Internet, which is a lot of sites hooked together with very fast links that form
the high-speed "backbone" of the uucp network. But there are thousands of other
sites hooked to this backbone via UUCP connections alone... just modems and
phone lines are involved. Think of the Internet as the freeway, and the
non-Internet part as the "surface streets", as they say in L.A.
So when I send email to my beta tester John Farrar (Username TRIX, now known as
...!uunet!world!workshop!trix), it makes a few hops through some local nodes via
modem and phone line, then hits the site "apple" at Apple Computer in Cupertino,
which is on the Internet. Wham! It goes the length of the country via Ethernet,
then gets "off the freeway" in Massachusetts, and goes through a couple of other
sites before it gets to John's system.
Email addresses via uucp are given as a sequence of sites to go through to get
to the person's mailbox. Typically people give their addresses as the last
couple of "hops" to get there, usually starting with a big enough node that
people will recognize it. So my address is ..!apple!fico2!ccentral!rickadams.
The "..." means "you fill in this part of the address". Kinda like telling
someone how to get to your house... "Once you get to Santa Rosa, take the
College Avenue exit, and..." It's assumed that figuring out how to get to Santa
Rosa is no big deal, it's the streets after that that are a problem. :-)
The basic low level protocol is an insanely complicated packet protocol that has
so many checksums and other error correction stuff that I swear it was designed
to keep working through a nuclear war. But it's fun. :-)
-*-
31161 11-AUG 11:03 General Information
RE: UUCP port (Re: Msg 31155)
From: ZACKSESSIONS To: THEFERRET (NR)
UUCP is run on simply an asychronous communications line, ie, RS232 Serial Port.
You mail messages to users on remote systems, of which the remote systems are
defined in your "Systems" file. The messages are "queued" up in a spool
directory. When your system calls up that remote system (usually as a result of
CRON activity) all mail destined for that system gets sent, and any mail waiting
on that system for your system is received. ASCII file transfer is also
supported.
Zack
-*-
End of Thread.
-*-
31154 11-AUG 02:23 Grits & Gravy
David Letterman
From: KNOT1 To: ALL
Did anyone watch "David Letterman" tonight? They had a guy on that Dave called
"The Weather Boy." Well, he was using a Color Computer. I just thought it was
nice to see our computer get a little airtime for a change.
-Jamie (KNOT1)-
-*-
31156 11-AUG 07:53 General Information
RE: os9 upgrade (Re: Msg 30825)
From: TEDJAEGER To: EDDIEKUNS (NR)
Well, Eddie, thanks for your reply. I am still tettering (sp?) on the MSDOS vs.
CoCo 4. I will probably go CoCo 4 for the sake of my hobby but I walk into Tandy
and see RLs at $600 ( and I can buy them 25% off ) and all that software! Ugh.
Somebody bring me the Level ii upgrade! --Cheers, TedJaeger
-*-
31157 11-AUG 07:55 General Information
B&B interface
From: TEDJAEGER To: ALL
I am SLOWLY getting my CoCo into an AT case and will want to put an MPI and B&B
interface in there. My question: does the B&B require -12 volts as well as the
+12 volts. Just want to run as few wires to my MPI as necessary. --Thanks,
TedJaeger
-*-
31162 11-AUG 11:04 General Information
RE: B&B interface (Re: Msg 31157)
From: ZACKSESSIONS To: TEDJAEGER (NR)
The MIP itself requires ground, +5V, +12V, and -12V. I wouldn't try it without
all four of them.
Zack
-*-
End of Thread.
-*-
31158 11-AUG 08:53 General Information
CoCo in case
From: TEDJAEGER To: ALL
Just wondered where a good place to hook the Power Supply ground to the CoCo 3
motherboard is. My instructions say pin 8 of IC8 but I would rather not try
soldering on an IC (rookie!). --Thanks, TedJaeger
-*-
31163 11-AUG 11:06 General Information
RE: CoCo in case (Re: Msg 31158)
From: ZACKSESSIONS To: TEDJAEGER (NR)
I assume you are referring to the instructions my Mike Haaland? One wire does go
to an IC pin, but it is a sturdy IC and can take the heat OK. I have done to to
2 CoCo3s.
Zack
-*-
End of Thread.
-*-
FORUM>Reply, Add, Read, "?" or Exit>
Reference in New Issue View Git Blame Copy Permalink