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* T A Y L O R O L O G Y *
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* A Continuing Exploration of the Life and Death of William Desmond Taylor *
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* *
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* Issue 45 -- September 1996 Editor: Bruce Long bruce@asu.edu *
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* TAYLOROLOGY may be freely distributed *
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CONTENTS OF THIS ISSUE:
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Interviews with Taylor's Ex-Wife
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Mabel Normand on the Witness Stand:
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Testimony at the William Desmond Taylor Inquest
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Testimony at the Horace Greer Hearing
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Testimony at the Horace Greer Trial
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What is TAYLOROLOGY?
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TAYLOROLOGY is a newsletter focusing on the life and death of William Desmond
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Taylor, a top Paramount film director in early Hollywood who was shot to
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death on February 1, 1922. His unsolved murder was one of Hollywood's major
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scandals. This newsletter will deal with: (a) The facts of Taylor's life;
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(b) The facts and rumors of Taylor's murder; (c) The impact of the Taylor
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murder on Hollywood and the nation; (d) Taylor's associates and the Hollywood
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silent film industry in which Taylor worked. Primary emphasis will be given
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toward reprinting, referencing and analyzing source material, and sifting it
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for accuracy.
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Interviews with Taylor's Ex-Wife
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* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
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February 5, 1922
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NEW YORK HERALD
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William Desmond Taylor, the slain movie director, was well known in
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this city in 1908. But he was not known as Taylor. He was William
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Cunningham Deane-Tanner, expert in antiques in those days, and he moved in
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good society, was well supplied with money from a mysterious source in
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Ireland and eventually was married to Ethel May Harrison of one of the
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Floradora Sextettes.
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Without a word of explanation, according to the woman who was then his
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wife, he disappeared in 1908. The first Mrs. Deane-Tanner now is the wife
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of E. L. C. Robins, owner of Robins Restaurant and other hostelries. Mrs.
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Robins gave out a statement yesterday explaining her marriage and the
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desertion and her subsequent discovery that her former husband had popped up
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in the motion picture colony at Hollywood, Cal., and became famous the world
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over as William Desmond Taylor. She says his murder shocked her and the
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daughter he abandoned.
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"I married, in December, 1901, Mr. William Cunningham Deane-Tanner of
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Dublin, Ireland," the statement said. "He disappeared in October, 1908. We
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could assign no reason for his disappearance except possibly aphasia.
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"In 1912 I got a decree of divorce in the State of New York and was
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awarded the custody of my only child, Ethel Daisy Deane-Tanner, now 19.
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"In August, 1914, I married Edward L. C. Robins. Two and a half weeks
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later I discovered that William Desmond Taylor had been Mr. Deane-Tanner.
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I have no further statement which possibly could be of interest.
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"The news of Mr. Deane-Tanner's death was a great shock to my daughter
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and me."
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At her home in Orienta Point, Mamaroneck, last night, Mrs. Robins said
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she held no resentment for the way Deane-Tanner treated her. She presented
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excuses for him, saying he suffered lapses of memory during the time they
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lived together and that not long before he vanished, in 1908, he was
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stricken with facial neuralgia and frequently was in an agony of pain. She
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does not believe he knew what he was doing the morning he left their home
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and she supposes that a mental ailment can be held to account for his
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failure to return.
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Just as dramatic as were many of the chapters in Deane-Tanner, or
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William Desmond Taylor's, life was Mrs. Robins's discovery in 1919 that he
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was still living.
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With her daughter Mrs. Robins went to a motion picture theater in this
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city one night. They chose the theater without knowing what picture it was
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featuring. For several hundred feet of film it was just a new picture as
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far as they were concerned, but suddenly the hero appeared. Mrs. Robins
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sank back in her seat too startled to speak. He daughter stood up.
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For the laughing face on the screen was that of the long missing Deane-
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Tanner a little changed--somewhat older looking they decided when they
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finally settled back to wait for the hero's next entry. They sat through
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the picture and then saw it again and learned that the man whose face they
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knew was acting and directing movies under the name of William Desmond
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Taylor.
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Mrs. Robins said last night that her daughter would not be satisfied
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until she had written to Taylor. Taylor answered her letter and the two
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continued a correspondence which grew with each month until finally Taylor
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of the movies came back to New York to try to make some amends for his
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conduct as Deane-Tanner, the negligent father.
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Taylor never explained why he had changed his name. But Mrs. Robins
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said he met her and the daughter on at least one occasion and expressed a
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desire to try to make good for his failure. He spent money lavishly on the
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girl, giving money and other presents to her and encouraging her to study.
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The love of the beautiful in art that appears to have impressed his
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Hollywood friends cropped up in his talks with his daughter, and he
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ultimately prevailed upon her to enter an art school in this city. She is
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now studying there.
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Mrs. Robins emphatically denied that her former husband ever married
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after he deserted her. She said she met him last August and remembers
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distinctly that he said he never had remarried and never would. His
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daughter, she quoted him as saying, was the only pal he wanted.
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According to Mrs. Robins, Deane-Tanner was of a family well known in
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Ireland--listed among the landed gentry or the peers, she wasn't sure which.
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His father was a Major in the British army, and he came of a line of men
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whose names have figured in British history.
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She said he was prepared for the army at one of the great British
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universities--Oxford or Cambridge--and that he was about to start for the
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military school when his health failed. He was sent to the United States,
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he told her, so that he might recover. Mrs. Robins said she remembers that
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he told her once he had two sisters and one brother, and she met soon after
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their marriage a man she supposes was the brother.
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The stories of drugs and drinking, Mrs. Robins thinks, are untrue,
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because while Deane-Tanner was her husband he used liquor but sparingly and
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always criticized those who did not know how to handle it.
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Before her marriage to Taylor--or Deane-Tanner, as he called himself
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then--Mrs. Robins was Miss Ethel May Harrison. No one could be found who
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could explain fully Deane-Tanner's early movements in New York, but it was
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established that he came from Ireland with considerable money and a habit of
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spending it freely. He caused some attention in sporting circles, talked
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about his yachts abroad, and eventually, it was said, became a familiar
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figure on the float of the Larchmont Yacht Club. He made friends easily and
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held them. Suddenly he began talking of previous visits here, and it was
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said yesterday, by men who knew him but do not want their names coupled with
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his in the murder mystery, that he let it be known he had played in roles
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opposite Fanny Davenport.
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Mrs. Robins would not say where she and her first husband made their
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home or where they were living when he disappeared, but it was established
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through friends that he dropped out of sight in 1908 a few weeks after the
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Vanderbilt cup races.
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* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
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February 6, 1922
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NEW YORK DAILY NEWS
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Edward L. C. Robins, owner of Delmonico's, who married Mrs. Ethel
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Hamilton Deane Tanner after she had divorced the romantic Irishman whose
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murder has stirred the continent, knew Tanner well and met Mrs. Tanner--now
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Mrs. Robins--through that friendship.
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But Mr. Robins has not the slightest idea of how Tanner--known to
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Hollywood and the movie world as William Desmond Taylor--came to be
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murdered. Talking with a representative of the Daily News at his home in
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Mamaroneck last night, Mr. Robins said:
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"I can't see why the newspapers are paying so much attention to
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Mamaroneck. It seems to me they ought to be trying to solve this mystery
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out in Los Angeles, where it happened.
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"I knew 'Pete,' as we called him, long before Mrs. Tanner and I were
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married. Pictures of him now? Ethel, have we any pictures of Pete?"
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Mrs. Robins had been listening in an alcove. When called she appeared
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promptly. A tall, striking blonde, with big, wide-open eyes, she did not
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impress one as the carefree girl who twenty years ago played in the
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Floradora company.
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"No," she answered. "I destroyed all those pictures when we got
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married. There might be one or two in the old trunks upstairs, but I doubt
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it. Every one I found I tore up long ago."
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With just that much interest is the murder of the man who was her
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husband accepted by Mrs. Robins. She divorced him ten years ago, under
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curious circumstances, after he had gone out of her life four years before.
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Apparently his sudden and unexpected going out from his own life has made
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only the slightest impression upon Mrs. Robins.
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But behind all this insouciance there looms some extraordinary mystery.
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Mrs. Robins cannot imagine any reason why her former husband was shot down
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in cold blood in his quiet home at Hollywood last Wednesday night. But she
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is not surprised, astonished, amazed or--to be brutally frank--very much
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horror-stricken.
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...Mrs. Robins said last night that shortly after their marriage she
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and Tanner visited his folks in Ireland. They were entertained royally and
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she realized for the first time that the young blood she had married off
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Broadway was a veritable sportsman in Ireland. His family entertained her
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at their home in Fitzwilliam Square and afterward they paid a visit to Cork,
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where the old family seat was located.
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"They were the Deane Tanners," Mrs. Robins explained, "to differentiate
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them from the other Tanners. The name is rather a familiar one in Ireland,
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and in England I think it is rather derogatorily applied to some small coin,
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a six-pence, I think. His father had been a member of Parliament; his uncle
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was a justice of the peace. Altogether the family was quite to the
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front."...
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* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
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February 13, 1922
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NEW YORK HERALD
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...Mrs. Robins, who married William Cunningham Deane-Tanner, or William
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Desmond Taylor, as he was later known, in 1902, said her former husband had
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spent some time on a pony ranch in southwestern Kansas before she met him in
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New York. The only information she had ever had was that which Deane-Tanner
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gave her personally.
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"Mr. Deane-Tanner told me that when he arrived here from Ireland he had
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gone out to this ranch," Mrs. Robins said, "and his family in Ireland had
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bought for him a part interest in it. When I met him he referred to it and
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told me a flaw in the title had forced several of the shareholders,
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including himself, to give up their part, and he then joined the Davenport
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road company. After the failure of his venture in Kansas he returned to his
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home in Ireland for a visit.
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"With reference to the claim of this Mr. Taylor in California that he
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is the son of the murdered director, I would not like to say flatly that the
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claim is or is not true, for I knew little of Mr. Deane-Tanner's life on the
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ranch in Kansas and did not find it necessary to catechize him minutely, and
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he never mentioned anything to me about having been married out there.
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Perhaps there is some truth in the story, or it may be another of the many
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persons who come forward whenever there is an estate to be settled. I have
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been interested in the number of persons who claim Mr. Deane-Tanner, or
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Taylor, was their father. To date he must have had at least six or seven
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children besides my own daughter, if the stories are all correct. As Mr.
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Deane-Tanner would only be about fifty years old now, that is rather
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ridiculous, I think."
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Referring to the criminal end of the case, Mrs. Robins criticized the
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work of the Los Angeles detectives and prosecutors, saying they do not seem
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to be particularly anxious to solve the mystery of the identity of the
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murderer.
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"I have bitterly resented the accounts printed in some of the
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newspapers here that my daughter and myself are merely interested in the
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financial part of the affair and are more interested in the Taylor estate
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than in the identity of the person who killed my former husband. This is
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absolutely untrue, for, as Mr. Taylor's former wife, I am deeply grieved at
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this terrible affair and am anxious to see the guilty person punished."
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Returning to the discussion of the claim of the man who says the movie
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director was his father, Mrs. Robins said that it seemed improbable that her
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first husband ever used the name of Taylor before he left New York in 1908.
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She said that to old friends who knew him when he first came to this country
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and had been in constant touch with him during his stay in Kansas nothing
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was known of any marriage while he was in the West. After that, and until
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he disappeared, Mrs. Robins said, he never used the name of Taylor, or
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referred extensively to his visit to the ranch in the West.
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"I never really knew Mr. Deane-Tanner's right age," Mrs. Robins said,
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"and I understood that he had been in his country about eight or nine years,
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when I married him at the Little Church Around the Corner in 1901. He was a
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fine, lovable man, and I never had occasion to closely question him about
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his 'past,' which every one seems trying to dig up."
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No decision whether Mrs. Robins or her daughter, Ethel, will go to
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California in connection with the settling of the estate has been reached.
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Frank E. Schrenseisen of New Rochelle, attorney for Miss Tanner, said that
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he was awaiting developments and instructions from the office of the Public
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Administrator in Los Angeles. Another attorney for Miss Tanner has been
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engaged in Los Angeles. Should the Public Administrator place credence in
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the story of Taylor, it is probable that Miss Tanner will accompany her
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attorney to the coast.
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"Mr. Deane-Tanner told my daughter that he had made a will in her
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favor," Mrs. Robins said, "and had placed it in his safe deposit box. I
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understand that this is another one of the items which the police say have
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strangely 'disappeared.' What he did with it I have no idea, but I feel
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that the entire matter will be straightened out. Just at present I am
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hoping that the murderer of Mr. Taylor will be brought to justice for this
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terrible crime."
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Mrs. Robins commented on the strange disappearance of Dennis Deane-
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Tanner, brother of the murdered director, and said she had never heard a
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word from him since he left this city in 1912, just four years after her
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husband disappeared. She said the two brothers had been good friends and
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business associates, and that Dennis had visited their home at Larchmont on
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several occasions, and had met many of their friends. There was never any
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trouble between the brothers as far as she knew, Mrs. Robins said.
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* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
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February 14, 1922
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NEW YORK AMERICAN
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To the two names suggested in the New York American yesterday--Edward
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F. Sands and Dennis Gage Deane-Tanner as persons whose discovery may furnish
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a clue to the identity of the slayer of William Desmond Taylor--was added
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yesterday a third.
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The third person is a woman, a fascinating blonde who was the companion
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of Taylor (or W. C. Deane-Tanner, as he was then known) on a trip through
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the Adirondacks during the Summer of 1908, three months prior to the sudden
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disappearance of "Pete" Tanner in late October, 1908.
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This woman, who had completely enchained the fancy of the aristocratic,
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handsome Tanner, was married. Her identity is said to be known to a few of
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Tanner's associates of the old days when he was a director in the A. J.
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Crawford Company firm at No. 253 Fifth avenue. She was the co-respondent in
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the divorce suit instituted some two years after "Pete" Tanner's
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disappearance by Mrs. Ethel May Hamilton Robins, now the wife of Edward L.
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C. Robins, managing proprietor of Delmonico's.
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Does this hitherto hidden episode in the life of the murdered man bear
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any significance upon the crime?
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Was the woman's husband implacably determined to avenge himself upon
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the man who had won the affections of his wife?
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Was it the hand of the husband that fired the fatal bullet (from twelve
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to fourteen years old, according to the testimony of experts in ballistics)
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that killed William Desmond Taylor?
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...At her home, Orienta Point, Mamaroneck, Mrs. Robins, former wife of
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the slain director, yesterday refused to discuss this episode in the life of
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her former husband. She refused to see newspaper men but told a friend:
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"I would do anything in my power to solve the mystery of Mr. Tanner's
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death but I do not think there can be any possible relation between this
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incident and the crime. It was not until long after Mr. Tanner's
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disappearance that I learned definitely there was another woman in his life.
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"This information was placed in the hands of my attorney, Mr. George
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Thoms, and he brought a successful suit for divorce against Mr. Tanner.
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This was in the latter part of 1918 [sic]. At that time I did not know
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whether Mr. Tanner was dead or alive.
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"It was later, perhaps seven years ago, that I saw Mr. Tanner for the
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first time on the screen. I cannot remember the name of the photoplay in
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which he appeared. However, it was not until two and one-half years ago
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that I learned definitely that William Desmond Taylor was my former
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husband."
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* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
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February 14, 1922
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WASHINGTON TIMES
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New York, Feb. 14 -- Of the many screen stars he knew, some of whom
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have been thrown squarely into the spotlight by the unrelenting inquiry into
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his association with William Desmond Taylor, slain director, mentioned but
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one--Mary Miles Minter--in his letters to his nineteen-year-old daughter,
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Miss Ethel Daisy Deane-Tanner.
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Disclosing this fact to a reporter today, Miss Tanner and her mother,
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Mrs. Edward L. C. Robins, who live in Mamaroneck, both of whom were deserted
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by the man of mystery in 1908, said that Miss Minter's name was used by the
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director only in an impersonal way.
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Her referred to her as an actress of ability, and said he had directed
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her in some of her photoplays. This was one of the last letters written to
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his daughter by Taylor before he was murdered in his Los Angeles bungalow.
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Mrs. Robins and her daughter expressly asserted that the name of Mabel
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Normand, screen comedienne, and last person to see the director alive, did
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not appear in Taylor's letters to his daughter, which had been more or less
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frequent during the last two years.
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Curiously enough, (and one reason why Mrs. Robins is increasingly
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inclined to the opinion that her husband's sudden disappearance from New
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York was due to loss of memory), her former husband never mentioned her in
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the letters.
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Another reason for this belief, she declared, was that on the times she
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and her daughter lunched here with Taylor--after it was definitely
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established that Taylor was in reality Deane-Tanner--he never mentioned the
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fact that he deserted his wife and daughter. On these occasions all three
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felt the subject was rather delicate and it was never brought up.
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Mrs. Robins said that when she and her daughter became convinced two
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years ago, after seeing pictures of Taylor, that he was the girl's father,
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Miss Deane-Tanner took the initiative and wrote to him. His reply came
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immediately.
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In it he said he was very glad to hear from her; that he had not heard
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from he for so long that he thought she was dead. This is one more reason
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why Mrs. Robins believes her former husband was a victim of aphasia when he
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left, after attending the Vanderbilt cup races in 1908.
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Taylor also, Mrs. Robins asserted, was unable to recall friends of
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their married life, and when their names were mentioned, his face failed to
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show the slightest signs of remembrance. He did remember, however, favorite
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dishes of his former wife when he was dining with his daughter, pointing
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them out to the latter on the menu during their luncheon together.
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Mrs. Robins declared that these points proved that his mind, while
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vague as to consequential facts about her married life with the director,
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retained minor details.
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The director's experiences in Alaska also were set forth in one letter.
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Taylor told of how he contracted scurvy, consequently suffering from loss of
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hair, headaches and neuralgia. Another letter dismissed with a few scornful
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words Sands, his chauffeur, who is still being sought by police. The
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director declared Sands had upset his home and said his name had been forged
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to checks by his unfaithful servant.
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Signatures Taylor used in his letters to his daughter, for whom he
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showed deep devotion, were "Father" and "Daddy Pete." The origin of how
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Taylor came to be known as "Pete" was explained by Mrs. Robins. She said
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when Taylor, or as he was known then, Deane-Tanner, first came to live in
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New York he took lodging with several Englishmen.
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Taylor, always deliberate and calculating in his methods, was nicknamed
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"P. D. Q.," by his roommates, which was quickly shortened to "Pete."
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The director's promise to leave his estate to his daughter was
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contained in a letter written in February, 1920. Mrs. Robins said her
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former husband said in this message he thought it would be good policy to
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leave them both an annuity, in addition to telling of his will bequeathing
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his estate to Ethel Daisy.
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* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
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February 7, 1922
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NEW YORK AMERICAN
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[relating the testimony of Taylor's wife during the divorce hearing in
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1911]...Mrs. Tanner, in her testimony, said she was married on
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December 7, 1901, at the Little Church Around the Corner.
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The ceremony was performed by Rev. George C. Houghton, pastor of the
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church. Following the marriage the couple went to live at No. 40 Washington
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Square South, and later moved to the Hotel Colonial at Columbus Avenue and
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Eighty-first street, at which time her husband became associated with A. J.
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Crawford & Co., at No. 251 Fifth Avenue.
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Mrs. Deane-Tanner added:
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"My husband left home at noon on October 23, 1908, and I have never
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seen him since. The last word received from him was on October 26, 1908,
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when he was stopping at the Broadway Central Hotel. He sent word to the
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Crawford firm asking for a sum of money. This was sent to him by Daniel J.
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Barker, of the firm. Then he disappeared."
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*****************************************************************************
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*****************************************************************************
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Mabel Normand on the Witness Stand:
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Testimony at the William Desmond Taylor Inquest
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Held on February 4, 1922
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Q. Please state your name.
|
|
A. Mabel Normand.
|
|
Q. Where do you reside?
|
|
A. 3089 West Seventh.
|
|
Q. What is your occupation?
|
|
A. Motion pictures.
|
|
Q. Miss Normand, were you acquainted with Mr. Taylor, the deceased in this
|
|
case?
|
|
A. Yes.
|
|
Q. Did you see him on the evening before his death occurred?
|
|
A. Yes, I did.
|
|
Q. And where did you see him?
|
|
A. Will I tell you when I went in there and when I came out?
|
|
Q. Did you see him at his home?
|
|
A. Oh, yes.
|
|
Q. And you were with him about how long on that occasion?
|
|
A. I got there about 7 o'clock and left at a quarter to 8.
|
|
Q. And when you left his place, did you leave him in the house, or outside?
|
|
A. No, he came down to my car with me.
|
|
Q. Where was your car?
|
|
A. Right in front of the court.
|
|
Q. On Alvarado street?
|
|
A. Yes, on the hill.
|
|
Q. He accompanied you to your car?
|
|
A. Yes.
|
|
Q. Was he still there when you drove away?
|
|
A. Yes, as my car turned around, I waved my hand at him; he was partly up a
|
|
little stairs there.
|
|
Q. At the time you were in the house, was anybody also in the house?
|
|
A. Yes, Henry, his man.
|
|
Q. Henry Peavey?
|
|
A. Yes.
|
|
Q. Do you know whether Mr. Peavey left the house before you did or not?
|
|
A. Yes, he did; he left about, I should say about 15 or 20 minutes before I
|
|
left, but stopped outside and spoke to my chauffeur; we came out later.
|
|
Q. No one else except Henry Peavey was there?
|
|
A. That was all.
|
|
Q. What time was it you say you left him--drove away from his place?
|
|
A. I left him on the sidewalk about a quarter to eight.
|
|
Q. Did you expect to see him or hear from him later that evening?
|
|
A. Yes, he said--he had finished his dinner--he said would I go out and take
|
|
dinner with him and I said, "no;" I was tired; I had to go home and get up
|
|
very early; he said he would call me up in about an hour.
|
|
Q. Did he call you?
|
|
A. No, I went to bed; if he called me I was asleep; when I am asleep he tells
|
|
my maid not to disturb me.
|
|
Q. Was that the last time you saw him when you left him about a quarter to
|
|
eight?
|
|
A. That was the last time.
|
|
Q. Have you any questions, Gentlemen? That is all, you may be excused.
|
|
|
|
*****************************************************************************
|
|
*****************************************************************************
|
|
|
|
Testimony at the Horace Greer Hearing
|
|
|
|
Although there was no direct relationship between the murder of William
|
|
Desmond Taylor and the shooting of Courtland Dines, both shootings had a
|
|
strong impact on Mabel Normand's career.
|
|
|
|
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
|
|
|
|
January 22, 1924
|
|
LOS ANGELES EXAMINER
|
|
|
|
Miss Normand Tells Court Own Story of Rich Clubman's Shooting
|
|
|
|
Mabel Normand was the only witness at the morning session of Justice
|
|
Handy's court yesterday when Horace Greer was arraigned in connection with
|
|
the shooting of Courtland Dines, Denver clubman, on New Year's Day.
|
|
She was called to the stand as soon as the hearing opened. Before
|
|
beginning her testimony, Justice Hanby warned the spectators that unless
|
|
there was absolute quiet he would clear the courtroom.
|
|
Here is the transcript of Miss Normand's testimony:
|
|
|
|
THE COURT: State your name, please.
|
|
THE WITNESS: May I sit down?
|
|
THE COURT: Yes. State your name, please. Just state your name in full.
|
|
A. Mabel Normand
|
|
|
|
Attorney Shelley then took up the direct examination of the film star.
|
|
Q. Where do you reside, Miss Normand?
|
|
A. 3089 West Seventh street.
|
|
Q. What is your occupation?
|
|
A. Motion pictures.
|
|
Q. Do you know one Horace A. Greer, also known as Joe Kelley?
|
|
A. Yes, sir.
|
|
Q. Did you know him on the first day of January, of this year?
|
|
A. Yes, sir.
|
|
Q. Did you know one Courtland Dines on that day?
|
|
A. Yes, sir.
|
|
Q. Do you know where Mr. Dines lived at that time--325B North Vermont street,
|
|
in this city?
|
|
A. Yes, sir, that is correct.
|
|
Q. What time did you first go there?
|
|
A. I left my house about--after 5.
|
|
Q. And what time did you arrive at Dines' apartment?
|
|
A. About--well, from the time it takes from where I live at 3089 West Seventh
|
|
to South Vermont, where Mr. Dines resides. The exact time of that I
|
|
cannot recall.
|
|
Q. And did you see Kelley or Greer at the time you first arrived at Dines'
|
|
apartments?
|
|
A. He drove me there.
|
|
Q. Now, did Greer stay there, or leave after he drove you there?
|
|
A. No. He drove me there, and he was undressing my Christmas tree at my
|
|
house, and I told him to come back and call for me, and also told him that
|
|
perhaps Miss Purviance might come back to my house with me, so he left
|
|
with the understanding that he was to come back for me in about an hour
|
|
and a half; perhaps not that long.
|
|
Q. About what time was it you next saw Greer after he drove back to your
|
|
house?
|
|
A. It was about 45 minutes.
|
|
Q. And that would make it what o'clock?
|
|
A. What?
|
|
Q. What time was it?
|
|
A. It was still daylight when Joe, Mr. Kelley, drove me over to my house--
|
|
over to Mr. Dines' apartments. Then when I again saw him, it was not with
|
|
the understanding of taking me home, only that he was to bring over a
|
|
Christmas gift that Mr. Greer insisted upon.
|
|
Q. Do you fix the time when you knew Greer--you knew Greer as Kelley at that
|
|
time, did you?
|
|
A. Yes, he was going under the name of Kelley from the Pierce Arrow people.
|
|
Q. Was it dark when Greer came back to Dines' apartments?
|
|
A. I don't remember.
|
|
Q. Do you remember--can you fix the time when he came back there?
|
|
A. Yes--
|
|
Q. How long was he gone as nearly as you can remember?
|
|
A. About--I was there about 45 minutes.
|
|
|
|
MR. SHELLY: I think it would be better, Your Honor, if we could draw a rough
|
|
diagram, for the purpose of clearing up the testimony.
|
|
MR. HAHN: No objection to that, clarifying the situation.
|
|
THE COURT: You will find a blackboard back there.
|
|
SHELLY: The place marked "D" is a davenport just outside of the door; the
|
|
place marked "T" is a table in the center of the room; the place marked
|
|
"B" is the breakfast table; the place marked "H" is the door into the
|
|
kitchen; the place marked "E" is the door into the bedroom; "C" is a
|
|
closet; "J" is the bathroom, "I" is the door into the bathroom. Now, when
|
|
Greer came back the second time--that is, when he came back the first time
|
|
and after he drove away from there, where did you first see Greer?
|
|
|
|
A. The bell rang and Mr. Dines asked who was there, and he said, "Joe." He
|
|
was sitting at the little breakfast table, as near as I an remember, and
|
|
Miss Purviance was in the bedroom and I got up.
|
|
Q. Where were you sitting at the time?
|
|
A. On the davenport and I got up--oh, no, I am making a mistake. Mr. Greer
|
|
came in and had this package--
|
|
Q. Wait a moment. When he said "Joe" did he then open the door or did
|
|
somebody go to it?
|
|
A. I am quite sure that Mr. Dines opened the door.
|
|
SHELLY: Tell us what was said and done from that time on.
|
|
A. Well, Mr. Greer or Mr. Kelly, as I knew him, Joe, came with this package,
|
|
which I had already telephoned for, because he was not to call for me for
|
|
an hour and a half, and you will not allow me to tell that--of course,
|
|
unfortunately, I am not allowed to tell that--
|
|
MR. HAHN: Just a moment, Miss Normand. We move that be stricken out as not
|
|
responsive that you are not allowed to explain. We will allow everything
|
|
to be explained legally.
|
|
THE COURT: It will be stricken out.
|
|
A. I see. Well, he came in with a box, which included some military brushes
|
|
that Miss Purviance had given him Christmas Day, and there was this talk
|
|
between them. I got up and went over and spoke to Miss Purviance in the
|
|
door.
|
|
Q. You mean the door "E"?
|
|
A. The door where the bedroom was and asked her for her powder puff. She was
|
|
powdering her face and all that sort of thing, and the next thing I heard
|
|
were shots. I thought they were firecrackers and I made absolutely no
|
|
objection to them because I am rather used to firecrackers and all that
|
|
sort of thing around the studio.
|
|
Q. Now, when you got up off the davenport had Joe Greer come into the room?
|
|
A. Yes, he was there, and he was speaking with Mr. Dines.
|
|
Q. How far had Joe come into the room, when you turned and walked away
|
|
towards the bedroom?
|
|
A. Well, I couldn't say just as near. He was already in conversation with
|
|
Mr. Dines.
|
|
Q. Did Dines close the door when Joe--
|
|
A. I don't remember that.
|
|
Q. Were you in the living room at the time you heard the shots?
|
|
A. No; I was in the room that goes between--in the bedroom and the living
|
|
room--between the two doors.
|
|
Q. From the time that Greer came into the room, how long was it before you
|
|
got up off the davenport and started into the bedroom?
|
|
A. Well, I remember Joe coming in, and about, I had delivered the message
|
|
over the telephone to give him, the box of brushes, to Mr. Dines. Mr.
|
|
Dines started to talk to Joe. What their conversation was, I don't know
|
|
because I got up--
|
|
THE COURT: Just a moment. You are volunteering too much, Miss Normand. Will
|
|
you read the question, Mr. Reporter?
|
|
MR. HAHN: We are not objecting to that question.
|
|
THE COURT: Well, I am, I don't want to encumber the record.
|
|
A. It was not a second.
|
|
MR. SHELLY: Then from the time until the shots were fired, you did not look
|
|
toward Greer or Dines?
|
|
A. No, sir.
|
|
Q. When you first looked toward them, what was their position; how far inside
|
|
the door was Greer?
|
|
A. Mr. Greer wasn't there. Mr. Dines was all full of blood and was like this
|
|
(indicating).
|
|
Q. Wait a minute; just go back to when Greer came in, that is what I am
|
|
asking now. When Greer first came into the room there, how far into the
|
|
room did he go when you last saw him?
|
|
A. Well, he was quite close to Mr. Dines, and handing him the package.
|
|
Q. And that was the last you saw of him?
|
|
A. That was the last I saw of him.
|
|
Q. After the shots were fired, did you look toward where Greer and Dines
|
|
were?
|
|
A. No, because I did not first--it never entered my mind to look.
|
|
MR. HAHN: Just a moment. We move that that be stricken out as not
|
|
responsive.
|
|
THE COURT: The last part will be stricken out.
|
|
MR. SHELLEY: How soon was it that you saw Greer or Dines after that?
|
|
A. I did not see Mr. Greer. I saw Mr. Dines like this (illustrating).
|
|
Q. How soon was that after you heard the shots fired?
|
|
A. Well, it must have been, just as soon as we took the thing seriously; that
|
|
is, there must have been something happened--
|
|
MR. HAHN: Just a minute. We move that that be stricken out as a conclusion.
|
|
THE COURT: Stricken out. State the time if you can.
|
|
MR. SHELLEY: Within a few seconds or minutes, or how long?
|
|
A. Seconds.
|
|
Q. Where was Dines after you saw him after the shots were fired?
|
|
A. He was sort of staggering.
|
|
Q. Where?
|
|
A. Near the window.
|
|
Q. Which window, will you illustrate.
|
|
A. The back part of his apartment. I mean by that that there is a front and
|
|
a back.
|
|
Q. Was he near the table, the dishes, the breakfast table?
|
|
A. Well, I think so.
|
|
Q. This is entrance, you know (indicating on diagram); there is the bedroom.
|
|
A. Yes, I know. He was near that.
|
|
Q. Back toward the kitchen?
|
|
A. No, because he was coming sort of toward us, and he said, I have this--
|
|
MR. HAHN: Just a minute. We object upon the ground it is hearsay, what he
|
|
said, in the absence of the defendant.
|
|
MR. SHELLEY: Greer wasn't there at that time, I take it?
|
|
A. No, he was not. I didn't see Mr. Greer.
|
|
Q. Was he close or not, do you remember, to the outside door?
|
|
A. He was close, but it was locked or half opened.
|
|
Q. During your visit, just before and up to the time that you heard the shots
|
|
fired, was there anyone else in that apartment except you and Dines?
|
|
A. Mr. Dines.
|
|
Q. When you saw Greer immediately after the shots were fired, what was his
|
|
condition?
|
|
A. I did not see Mr. Greer after the shots were fired.
|
|
Q. Mr. Dines?
|
|
A. Mr. Dines was leaning over like this (illustrating) holding himself like
|
|
this and all full of blood.
|
|
Q. And what part of his body was he holding?
|
|
A. Up here, on the top part (indicating).
|
|
Q. Had his hands up to his breast?
|
|
A. Yes.
|
|
Q. I will show you a small automatic pistol, and ask you if you ever saw that
|
|
before.
|
|
A. I have seen it, yes. I have had it for six years.
|
|
MR. SHELLEY: You recognize the pistol then, do you?
|
|
A. I don't know.
|
|
Q. Well, I mean did you have one similar to that?
|
|
MR. CONLIN: Object to that as incompetent, irrelevant and immaterial.
|
|
A. I told you I can't remember. All I am telling you--
|
|
MR. HAHN: Wait a minute, madam. Please don't volunteer an answer.
|
|
MR. SHELLEY: We ask that this be marked plaintiff's exhibit A.
|
|
MR. CONLIN: Objected to as for identification.
|
|
THE COURT: It may be marked for identification.
|
|
MR. SHELLEY: Did you have an automatic pistol similar in appearance to that,
|
|
previous to the time that your were in Dines' apartment?
|
|
A. Yes, for years--for six years.
|
|
Q. Where was it the last time you saw that automatic pistol that you had
|
|
previous to the time that you were at Dines' apartments?
|
|
A. A little stand near my bed, a little stand; a little night stand that has
|
|
a lamp, you know.
|
|
Q. Do you remember how long before you were at Dines' apartments or the last
|
|
time you saw that gun?
|
|
A. I haven't seen it or taken notice of it for months and months.
|
|
Q. Well, as far as you know it was there on that day?
|
|
MR. HAHN: Wait a minute. Objected to on the ground--wait a minute, Miss
|
|
Normand. We object to that on the ground it is leading and suggestive.
|
|
THE COURT: Objection sustained.
|
|
MR. SHELLEY: How long previous to this time had you known Mr. Dines?
|
|
A. I have known him ever since Miss Purviance introduced me to him, which was
|
|
about, perhaps a year ago.
|
|
Q. How long had you known Miss Purviance?
|
|
MR. HAHN: We will object to that on the ground it is incompetent, irrelevant
|
|
and immaterial, and nothing to do with this case as to how long she knew
|
|
Miss Purviance.
|
|
THE COURT: Overruled. You may answer.
|
|
A. I have known Miss Purviance for years.
|
|
Q. How long had you known Greer.
|
|
A. The day after my birthday, which was November 10, and on the 11th I
|
|
engaged him. That was the first time I met Mr. Greer.
|
|
Q. That was 1923?
|
|
A. Yes, sir.
|
|
Q. Did you have any conversation with Greer when he first drove you to the
|
|
apartment?
|
|
A. None whatsoever, except to call for me later.
|
|
Q. What was that conversation?
|
|
A. It was this, to undress my Christmas tree, which he was doing when I was
|
|
leaving, and when I left him at Mr. Dines' apartment--why "I have a long
|
|
way to walk up," I said, "perhaps I will bring Miss Purviance back with
|
|
me. I don't know what they're going to do tonight--Miss Purviance--
|
|
because I was going to be alone tonight."
|
|
Q. That was what you said to Greer, was it?
|
|
A. I think so.
|
|
Q. Now, did you say anything to him about when he was to come back?
|
|
A. No, I did not.
|
|
MR. SHELLY: I show you a box containing some brushes and a comb, and ask if
|
|
you ever saw them before, as far as you know.
|
|
A. Yes. I believe I did Christmas day but I paid no attention to it.
|
|
Q. When Greer came to the apartments what size of bundle did he have with
|
|
him?
|
|
A. A small box like that, wrapped in white paper with the name on it or
|
|
something like that.
|
|
Q. Did you look at the name?
|
|
A. I could recognize it if you would show it to me.
|
|
Q. I mean, did you at the time?
|
|
A. No, indeed it did not.
|
|
MR. HAHN: I move that answer to the last question be stricken out. If she
|
|
did not see the name on the package, it is a dead moral certainty that she
|
|
don't know that it was there.
|
|
THE COURT: Strike it out.
|
|
MR. SHELLEY: I show you a piece of white wrapping paper with some writing on
|
|
it and ask you if you are familiar with that writing?
|
|
A. Yes. That is Mrs. Burns' writing. That is paper from my house.
|
|
Q. Mrs. Edith Burns?
|
|
A. Yes, sir.
|
|
Q. And she was at that time your housekeeper and companion?
|
|
A. No, not exactly. She was just one who would come over and stay at my
|
|
house. She had no other place to go and she would stay. I have my
|
|
housekeeper and my maid and everything else that are all with me.
|
|
Q. Is this piece of paper that was around the package that Greer had at the
|
|
time he came back similar in appearance to the paper I have just shown
|
|
you?
|
|
A. Yes, sir. It seems to be the same piece of paper. It seems to be the
|
|
same piece that was around that box.
|
|
Q. Previous to the time you went to Dines' apartments that afternoon had you
|
|
seen Mrs. Edith Burns?
|
|
A. Yes. She was in my house all day.
|
|
Q. She was at your house when you left, then?
|
|
A. Yes, all day. She had slept there the night previous, New Year's Eve.
|
|
Q. Between the time you first went to Dines' apartments and the time you
|
|
heard the shots fired, did you or Dines talk over the telephone from
|
|
Dines' apartments?
|
|
A. Yes, sir, we did.
|
|
Q. Who talked first?
|
|
A. I did, because when I arrived--
|
|
Q. Did you ring up some one, or did some one ring you up?
|
|
A. No, I telephoned.
|
|
Q. During that time did any one else talk over the phone from the Dines
|
|
apartment?
|
|
A. Yes, Mr. Dines did, and finished the conversation with Mrs. Burns which I
|
|
did not hear.
|
|
|
|
Attorney Hahn then took up the cross-examination of Miss Normand. His first
|
|
question was: Miss Normand, directing your attention to this map, or
|
|
diagram, rather, we understood you to testify on direct examination that
|
|
Mr. Dines was about here; indicated by the letter B; is that right?
|
|
A. What does the letter B mean? Is that the bed?
|
|
THE COURT: The breakfast room.
|
|
MR. HAHN: No, it does not mean the breakfast room.
|
|
A. There is no breakfast room in the house.
|
|
MR. SHELLEY: The letter B is the breakfast table.
|
|
MR. HAHN: The breakfast table was at the back end of the room, is that right,
|
|
going towards the kitchen?
|
|
A. Going towards the kitchen.
|
|
Q. Going towards the kitchen?
|
|
A. Yes, sir.
|
|
Q. We have here a diagram that to go to the kitchen you have to go around a
|
|
wall and come around here to the letter E, which is the entrance into the
|
|
kitchen?
|
|
MR. SHELLEY: The letter E is the bedroom.
|
|
MR. HAHN: Where is the kitchen entrance?
|
|
A. There is the breakfast table, and there is a swinging door that leads
|
|
right into the kitchen.
|
|
Q. A swinging door goes through this wall?
|
|
A. I don't know. It could not go through the wall.
|
|
Q. How do you go into the kitchen; by going around a wall?
|
|
A. Right next to it.
|
|
Q. Right next to it?
|
|
A. Yes, sir, it is right next to it.
|
|
Q. From the position you have indicated here, so far as you can remember,
|
|
could you see Greer and Dines from the position where you were standing?
|
|
A. No, I did not.
|
|
Q. That is good. You did not see them at all, what transpired between the
|
|
two parties?
|
|
A. No, I did not.
|
|
Q. You did not see what Mr. Dines had in his hands all the time, did you?
|
|
A. No, sir.
|
|
Q. You did not pay any attention?
|
|
A. I did not see it.
|
|
Q. You were busy with Mr. Dines [sic], is that right?
|
|
A. Yes, sir.
|
|
Q. And that was your purpose in going into the bedroom, was to go and see Mr.
|
|
Dines [sic]?
|
|
A. Yes, sir.
|
|
Q. And you really don't know how long they did argue there, do you?
|
|
A. No, I don't.
|
|
Q. It is your impression that it was a few seconds, is that right?
|
|
A. Yes, sir.
|
|
Q. But you could not, under oath, say how long it did take to argue between
|
|
them?
|
|
A. No, sir.
|
|
Q. And you could not say what Mr. Dines did say to Greer, and Mr. Greer say
|
|
to Mr. Dines?
|
|
A. No, sir.
|
|
Q. And you don't know whether Mr. Dines threw a bottle at him, or not?
|
|
A. No, sir.
|
|
MR HAHN: Thank you, that is all.
|
|
|
|
On redirect examination Mr. Shelley asked: Miss Normand, calling your
|
|
attention to exhibit C, in the center of the living room there, at the
|
|
time that you left the davenport and walked to the bedroom, when Greer had
|
|
just come in the room, did you notice what was on that table C, or had you
|
|
noticed before that time?
|
|
A. No, sir, I did not.
|
|
Q. Did you notice whether or not there was a large bottle on that table?
|
|
MR. HAHN: I object to that as leading and suggestive. She said she did not
|
|
remember.
|
|
THE COURT: Objection sustained.
|
|
MR. SHELLEY: Now, if the court please, a witness may say that they did not
|
|
notice particularly what was on a table, and still they may know that it
|
|
is not a hobby horse on that table, or something that is a noticeable
|
|
object there, so I think I may ask this witness the question I asked, did
|
|
she notice whether or not there was a bottle on that table.
|
|
MR. HAHN: Miss Normand is an intelligent witness.
|
|
MR. SHELLEY: And Mr. Hahn is an intelligent attorney, and there are some
|
|
other intelligent people sitting in the court room. I insist, your Honor,
|
|
I have a right to ask her whether or not she noticed a large bottle on
|
|
that table.
|
|
MR. HAHN: We also insist that it is leading and suggestive and we are willing
|
|
to abide by the court's decision.
|
|
MR. SHELLEY: Counsel for the defense has brought out the point, you did not
|
|
notice Dines throw a bottle at Greer. Now we, the People, certainly have
|
|
the right to ask this witness whether or not there was such an object as
|
|
that in plain view on the table, before this witness.
|
|
MR. CONLIN: He may have had it in his pocket.
|
|
THE COURT: I think it would be proper for you to ask this witness if there
|
|
was a bottle of any kind in that room.
|
|
MR. HAHN: But she testified that she did not see anything on that table.
|
|
MR. SHELLEY: My question was did she notice anything particularly.
|
|
THE COURT: I will sustain the objection to the question as asked.
|
|
MR. SHELLEY: As I understand, then, the ruling of your honor, refuses to let
|
|
me ask the witness whether she noticed a bottle on the table?
|
|
THE COURT: No; you can't ask her if she noticed a bottle there in that room.
|
|
I think that would be a proper question, inasmuch as the bottle has been
|
|
brought out here, but to call her attention to any particular place after
|
|
she said she didn't remember anything of that bottle, or words to that
|
|
effect, wouldn't be proper.
|
|
MR. SHELLEY: At any time after Greer came back the second time and Dines went
|
|
to the door, did you see Dines with a bottle in his hand?
|
|
A. No, sir.
|
|
MR. SHELLEY: During the time that Greer and Dines were there, and when Greer
|
|
came back the second time, did you see in the living room any bottle?
|
|
A. No; I didn't notice any bottle.
|
|
MR. SHELLEY: That is all.
|
|
MR. HAHN: Miss Normand, let me ask you one question, with your Honor's
|
|
permission. As I understood from cross examination that you didn't pay
|
|
any attention as to whether there were any bottles around there?
|
|
A. I did not.
|
|
Q. And you could not say that there were not bottles?
|
|
A. No, sir, I cannot.
|
|
Q. And as I understood you, you don't know whether Mr. Dines threw a bottle
|
|
at Greer or not?
|
|
A. No, sir; I never saw that part.
|
|
MR. HAHN: You never saw that part. Thank you very much. That is all.
|
|
MR. SHELLEY: Was there anything on the table at that time? That is, the
|
|
table in the center of the room?
|
|
A. No, the table is on the side of the room.
|
|
Q. Now, on that table in the center of the room, the table T, was there at
|
|
the time that Greer came back anything that you remember on that table?
|
|
A. No, there were a lot of little cigarette ends, which were all over the
|
|
place, but on the table I saw nothing, and then I don't remember--
|
|
Q. On the table B, in the kitchen, at the time that Greer came beck the
|
|
second time, do you remember what was on that table?
|
|
A. I do not.
|
|
MR. SHELLEY: That is all.
|
|
MR. HAHN: That is all.
|
|
THE COURT: Miss Normand, did you see Mr. Greer enter the room at all that
|
|
evening just before the shots were fired?
|
|
A. No, sir, I don't remember.
|
|
Q. Did you see him there at the door?
|
|
A. No, your honor, because the door bell rang and I heard Mr. Dines say,
|
|
"Just a minute."
|
|
Q. You didn't see Mr. Greer at all then immediately after the shots?
|
|
A. No, sir--no, sir, I didn't, your honor. I just can't recall.
|
|
Q. Did you see him?
|
|
A. After that I just can't recall, but--
|
|
Q. Did you see him?
|
|
A. Because they were all talking about everything New Year's, you know.
|
|
Q. Who do you mean by "all"?
|
|
A. Mr. Dines, Miss Purviance, just before she had entered the other room,
|
|
they were all talking about people and New Year's Eve.
|
|
Q. Mr. Dines went back to the breakfast table, and you went to him.
|
|
A. No. When the door bell rang he was standing, it seemed to me, so far as I
|
|
can recall, near the breakfast table.
|
|
Q. And you were where?
|
|
A. I was sitting on that couch. The door bell rang. Mr. Dines said, "Joe,
|
|
who is it?" and Joe answered--
|
|
MR. CONLIN: Just a minute, object to that as a conclusion of the witness and
|
|
incompetent, irrelevant and immaterial unless she is qualified to know his
|
|
voice.
|
|
THE COURT: All right. What was said by the party at the door?
|
|
A. Not a thing.
|
|
THE COURT: "Joe"?
|
|
A. Yes, Mr. Greer.
|
|
MR. CONLIN: Object to that and move that the answer be stricken as not
|
|
responsive.
|
|
THE COURT: Stricken out. Did you recognize the voice of the person who said,
|
|
"Joe"?
|
|
A. Well, I think I ought to be rather used to it.
|
|
Q. Did you recognize who was there?
|
|
A. Well, I think I did.
|
|
Q. And who was there?
|
|
A. Joe.
|
|
Q. That is the defendant here?
|
|
A. Yes, sir.
|
|
Q. But you didn't see him at all?
|
|
A. No, I didn't.
|
|
Q. All right. Just at what point did you leave the room, or did you leave
|
|
the room first?
|
|
A. No, Mr. Dines went to the door. Mr. Greer had a box.
|
|
Q. No, whoever it was, did you see him with the box?
|
|
A. Yes, I did. I saw him with the box. I mean--I don't know whether I saw
|
|
him with the box or not. Anyway, I got up and went over and spoke to Mr.
|
|
Dines, who was in the room.
|
|
Q. Now, we want to know did you see him, or did you not see the defendant?
|
|
That is what I want to know.
|
|
A. Yes, I did. I saw Joe in there.
|
|
Q. Where was he? That is all right. Now where was he?
|
|
A. Entering the door with the box like this (illustrating).
|
|
Q. And where, at that time, was Mr. Dines?
|
|
A. Near the table. Mr. Dines at that time was at the table.
|
|
Q. All right, take the chalk and show us now; make a mark where each one of
|
|
them was?
|
|
A. I can't draw a picture, your honor.
|
|
A. You can make a cross?
|
|
A. I can make it where it is.
|
|
Q. Where the figure A is, is the door, supposed to be the entrance to the
|
|
building?
|
|
A. Well, this place (indicating on diagram).
|
|
Q. All right, show us where Mr. Greer was when you saw him with the box?
|
|
A. He was there (indicating on diagram).
|
|
Q. All right. Now, show us where Mr. Dines was at the same time?
|
|
A. Now, what does D mean?
|
|
Q. That is where you were sitting; that is the couch.
|
|
A. All right, that is fine. T for Tommy is what?
|
|
Q. That is the table.
|
|
A. And B is the little breakfast table (indicating on diagram).
|
|
Q. Well, now let us know where you saw him?
|
|
A. Well, as near as I can recollect, I am sure he was near there, because I--
|
|
Q. All right, never mind why.
|
|
A. I got up, and I went--where is the bedroom?
|
|
Q. Where you see the D there is the door.
|
|
A. I went that way (indicating on diagram).
|
|
Q. All right. Now, about how far is it from where you saw Mr. Greer, to
|
|
where you saw him at that time?
|
|
A. From here to where that gentleman is sitting, your honor.
|
|
THE COURT: How far is that, counsel?
|
|
MR. CONLIN: About twelve feet.
|
|
MR. HAHN: About twelve or fifteen feet.
|
|
THE COURT: Is that stipulated?
|
|
MR. SHELLEY: Ten to fifteen feet.
|
|
MR. HAHN: Ten to fifteen feet, something like that.
|
|
THE COURT: Did you leave the room?
|
|
A. Yes, Joe--
|
|
Q. You went into the bedroom, then?
|
|
A. Into the bedroom.
|
|
Q. Where were you when you heard these shots?
|
|
A. Still in the doorway.
|
|
Q. Just where?
|
|
A. Where is the doorway? Because I am getting a little mixed up on that.
|
|
Q. Where E is.
|
|
A. There is the doorway (indicating on diagram). There is where I was.
|
|
Q. (Indicating.) This is the bedroom.
|
|
A. All right, that is where Miss Purviance was.
|
|
Q. Did you meet her?
|
|
A. Yes, I did.
|
|
Q. And how far apart were you and Miss Purviance at that time?
|
|
A. Well, there is a closet--
|
|
Q. Just answer the question. How far apart were you?
|
|
A. Well, just like this (illustrating); because that is a long mirror--
|
|
Q. Four or five feet?
|
|
A. I can't tell the feet. Like this, (illustrating).
|
|
THE COURT: How far is that, counsel?
|
|
MR. CONLIN: About four feet.
|
|
THE COURT: Is that all right, Mr. District Attorney?
|
|
MR. HEINECKE: About four feet.
|
|
THE COURT: All right.
|
|
Q. And you and Miss Purviance were talking?
|
|
A. Yes, talking. Back here, I was this way (indicating).
|
|
Q. Which way was your back--towards Mr. Greer?
|
|
A. Yes, sir.
|
|
Q. At the time the shots were fired?
|
|
A. Yes, your Honor.
|
|
Q. And you went right on talking with Miss Purviance, didn't turn round, for
|
|
some seconds?
|
|
A. I thought they were firecrackers--
|
|
Q. Is that correct?
|
|
A. Absolutely correct.
|
|
Q. But when did--when you did look around, where was Dines?
|
|
A. He was near the table.
|
|
Q. Show us on the map.
|
|
A. Oh! Is that the table (indicating)?
|
|
Q. Yes, that is the table.
|
|
A. Well, it seems to me--we were so excited when we saw the blood--
|
|
Q. Never mind, now.
|
|
A. That is the only way I can explain, your Honor.
|
|
Q. Don't explain it at all. Show us.
|
|
A. It seemed as if he was coming towards us, and we both rushed towards him,
|
|
and he was all bent over like this (illustrating).
|
|
Q. All right; you have told us that. Now, where was Mr. Greer--do you know?
|
|
A. I didn't see Mr. Greer.
|
|
Q. He had gone?
|
|
A. He had already left.
|
|
THE COURT: That is all. Any further questions?
|
|
MR. CONLIN: Do you know whether Mr. Greer had left the room before these
|
|
reports like firecrackers went off?
|
|
A. No, sir; I do not.
|
|
Q. How long prior to the time of these shots did you see Mr. Greer?
|
|
A. Well, it all happened so quickly, I can't recall that, or answer it
|
|
correctly.
|
|
Q. Well, do you know whether it was one minute, or two minutes, or three
|
|
minutes or how long it was?
|
|
A. Hearing these reports like firecrackers?
|
|
Q. When you came out of the bedroom?
|
|
A. Well, I know it was--
|
|
Q. You came out of the bedroom?
|
|
A. Well, I know it was--I asked Miss Purviance, I had time to ask her for her
|
|
powder puff.
|
|
Q. In other words--did you use the powder puff?
|
|
A. No, I asked her for it. She was using it before that long mirror which
|
|
goes in the closet.
|
|
Q. You stood in the doorway until Miss Purviance got through using it?
|
|
A. I never used it, because in the meantime the shots were fired.
|
|
Q. Well, when you went into the bedroom--or when you were standing in the
|
|
door?
|
|
A. I was standing in the doorway.
|
|
Q. You couldn't see what happened in the room, could you, what happened
|
|
between Mr. Dines and Mr. Greer?
|
|
A. I couldn't see.
|
|
Q. Well, then, you don't know how long Mr. Dines and Mr. Greer were talking,
|
|
do you?
|
|
A. I do not.
|
|
Q. It may have been two or three or four minutes, may it not?
|
|
A. It was longer, perhaps.
|
|
MR. SHELLEY: Did you, after the shots were fired, when you came back in, or
|
|
at any time before you left the apartment, see an automatic revolver?
|
|
A. No, sir.
|
|
MR. HAHN: Just a minute--she has answered, "No, sir," all right. She said,
|
|
"no."
|
|
MR. SHELLEY: That is all.
|
|
MR. HEINECKE: Another question, Miss Normand. You stated when you went in
|
|
there, you saw Mr. Dines and he was standing in this position
|
|
(illustrating). Now you mean he was bent over and had both hands on his
|
|
chest?
|
|
A. I can't answer that correctly because I know he was this way
|
|
(illustrating), all full of blood.
|
|
Q. Now, you are indicating that he was stooping with his head over?
|
|
A. Yes.
|
|
Q. And with his hands on his chest?
|
|
A. And he said, "I have been plugged"--that is the only way I remember.
|
|
MR. HAHN: Wait a minute, madam, wait a minute. Objected to as hearsay, what
|
|
he said, and no proper foundation laid. It hasn't been shown that Greer
|
|
was there.
|
|
THE WITNESS: No, Mr. Greer wasn't there.
|
|
THE COURT: The objection is overruled.
|
|
THE WITNESS: Pardon me.
|
|
THE COURT: I think that is part of the res gestae--near enough.
|
|
Q. Will you indicate, if you can state, will you approximate about how far
|
|
you were standing from Mr. Greer, when you saw him in the doorway?
|
|
A. I wasn't standing; I was sitting, your honor, when Mr. Greer came in, and
|
|
got up because he had a box in his hands for Mr. Dines, and then I left
|
|
for the bedroom door to speak to Miss Purviance and ask for her powder
|
|
box.
|
|
Q. What I want to fix is the distance between the point where Mr. Greer
|
|
spoke, and when you went to the door to see Miss Purviance. The question
|
|
is how far it would be from the point where Mr. Greer stopped, to where
|
|
you were talking to Miss Purviance, at the door of the bedroom?
|
|
A. Here is your door (indicating on diagram), and about that man's shoes
|
|
there (indicating), about that far is where Mr. Dines was.
|
|
Q. Which man?
|
|
A. I don't know that man.
|
|
MR. SHELLEY: Eight or nine feet?
|
|
MR. HAHN: Eight or nine feet.
|
|
THE COURT: All right.
|
|
MR. HEINECKE: What did you and Miss Purviance do immediately after you saw
|
|
his condition?
|
|
MR. CONLIN: Objected to as incompetent, irrelevant and immaterial, leading
|
|
and suggestive, assuming a state of facts not in evidence.
|
|
MR. HEINECKE: If anything.
|
|
MR. CONLIN: No bearing on this defendant.
|
|
THE COURT: Overruled.
|
|
MR. HAHN: If your honor please, Miss Purviance and Miss Normand's actions,
|
|
what they did in the absence of the defendant are prejudicial to the
|
|
defendant. I don't know what she may state. It has nothing to do with
|
|
the issues in this case. The question is very broad. You might as well
|
|
ask her what she did at midnight.
|
|
THE COURT: The question is what she immediately did. I don't think it is
|
|
prejudicial at all. I shall not allow the witness to go into any detailed
|
|
statement of what happened for any extended period afterwards, but what
|
|
happened immediately, I think is material.
|
|
MR. HAHN: Whether the defendant was there or not?
|
|
THE COURT: Yes, you may answer.
|
|
Q. What did you do immediately after?
|
|
A. Why, we rushed out of the room and saw Mr. Dines in this condition. We
|
|
both, Miss Purviance and I, took his arms on each side, and took him into
|
|
the bedroom and put him on the bed.
|
|
THE COURT: I think that answers it.
|
|
MR. HAHN: Just a minute.
|
|
THE COURT: And put him on the bed?
|
|
A. On the bed.
|
|
MR. HEINECKE: That is all.
|
|
|
|
Attorney Hahn, on re-cross examination, asked: You don't remember what you
|
|
did immediately after the shooting, do you?
|
|
A. Yes. I do. I remember I turned around after I heard what I thought were
|
|
firecrackers and saw Mr. Dines in this condition.
|
|
Q. Why, you said a few minutes ago it was probably four or five minutes?
|
|
A. Well, we were talking, and I didn't pay much attention to it, but as soon
|
|
as we did see the condition that Mr. Dines was in, we both ran to him, and
|
|
Miss Purviance took him on one side and I took him on the other side and
|
|
we took him into the bedroom.
|
|
THE COURT: You heard no conversation between Dines and Greer either before or
|
|
after the shooting?
|
|
A. No, your honor.
|
|
MR. HAHN: You really don't remember whether it was four or five minutes or
|
|
four or five seconds that you walked out of that bedroom with Miss
|
|
Purviance, do you.
|
|
A. No, I don't.
|
|
MR. CONLIN: This four or five minutes that you testified having elapsed, do
|
|
you mean that it was four or five minutes between the time that Mr. Greer
|
|
came into the apartment and was talking with Mr. Dines four or five
|
|
minutes, or was it four or five minutes from the time the firecrackers
|
|
went off and you turned around and saw Mr. Dines?
|
|
MR. SHELLEY: We will object to that as immaterial.
|
|
A. I can't give you the absolute detailed time except I got up from the couch
|
|
and walked to the bedroom door and stood and talked to Miss Purviance, and
|
|
the next thing I heard was the shots; the exact time I don't know.
|
|
MR. CONLIN: That is all.
|
|
|
|
*****************************************************************************
|
|
*****************************************************************************
|
|
|
|
Testimony at the Horace Greer Trial
|
|
|
|
June 17, 1924
|
|
LOS ANGELES EXAMINER
|
|
|
|
Mabel Normand Clashes with Greer's Attorney
|
|
|
|
Very much like the "three firecrackers going off," to which Mabel
|
|
Normand compared the shots that figured in the shooting of Courtland Dines
|
|
at the interrupted New Year's party in his apartments was Mabel Normand's
|
|
own testimony on the witness stand in Judge Crail's court yesterday.
|
|
The difference was that Mabel's verbal firecrackers sputtered and
|
|
blazed continuously as she told the story of the shooting, for which Horace
|
|
Greer, her former chauffeur, is on trial.
|
|
Miss Normand was by no means an unwilling witness, although she
|
|
displayed a hazy memory on some points on which information was sought,
|
|
Particularly when Defense Attorney S. S. Hahn placed her under cross-
|
|
examination was she more than ready to come back with swift and emphatic
|
|
answers that kept the crowded courtroom laughing.
|
|
Once, when Hahn was working to tangle her in the meshes of "what did
|
|
you say when you testified before," the Normand temper slipped its moorings.
|
|
"You haven't any right to cross examine me like that," she said. "What
|
|
do you want to be so mean to me for? That isn't the way you were supposed
|
|
to act."
|
|
Prosecution attorneys murmured something about manner toward witnesses,
|
|
Judge Crail smiled.
|
|
"This witness seems perfectly able to take care of herself," he said.
|
|
Miss Normand began her story by telling of her visit to Dines'
|
|
apartment in response to telephone invitations from Dines and Edna
|
|
Purviance.
|
|
"The first thing I did was to pick up some cigarette butts," she said,
|
|
"then we sat and talked like anybody."
|
|
The cigarette butts re-entered the examination when Greer's attorney
|
|
made passing mention of "While you were smoking."
|
|
"I beg your pardon," interrupted Miss Normand, icicles clinging to
|
|
every word. "I was not smoking."
|
|
"I beg yours," said the attorney, with a bow that called for a camera
|
|
to record it.
|
|
Later, said Miss Normand, Dines telephoned to her home and told Greer,
|
|
her chauffeur, to bring over the Christmas gift that Dines had forgotten to
|
|
take with him. Miss Normand was sitting on the couch near the door, she
|
|
said, when Greer came in. Dines was standing near the table. Miss
|
|
Purviance was in an adjoining room.
|
|
"I heard a knock, and Greer came in," said Miss Normand. "I walked
|
|
over to the bedroom door to speak to Edna. I was just inside when I heard
|
|
three noises, like firecrackers. Edna and I ran out into the living room."
|
|
"I saw Dines all bent over. He said, 'I'm plugged.' He was all over
|
|
blood. I just saw a white shirt and vest, then the whole crowd came in,
|
|
after we had helped Dines over to the bed. I never saw so many people in my
|
|
life at once.
|
|
"I didn't see Greer there, after Dines said he was plugged. I didn't
|
|
hear Greer and Dines talking together at all. I didn't see any gun there."
|
|
Greer's counsel turned to the bottle with which the defense claimed
|
|
Dines was about to strike Greer when the latter shot. A squat, brown,
|
|
hospitable looking bottle, it stood on the counsel table with a cardboard
|
|
tag tied around its plump neck.
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|
"Is this the bottle you saw in Dines' apartment?" he demanded, after
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Miss Normand had insisted that she saw only one bottle.
|
|
"It looks like it, and it doesn't look like it," answered Mabel.
|
|
"How much whisky was in it?"
|
|
Mabel carefully measured out with thumb and finger about two
|
|
perpendicular inches.
|
|
"That was all," she said. "Just enough for the three of us to have a
|
|
little drink, when somebody said, 'It's New Year's.'"
|
|
"Dines," said Mabel, "was not exactly drunk, but he had plenty."
|
|
"Isn't it a fact," demanded the defense attorney, "after he had quizzed
|
|
Miss Normand over and over again on what she told Greer about calling for
|
|
her, "isn't it a fact that you told him that you were afraid to stay at
|
|
Dines' place because you had to go to the hospital the next day, and you
|
|
knew you would get drunk if you stayed?"
|
|
Mabel's voice was full of ice again.
|
|
"Certainly not," she said. "I wouldn't talk to a driver about going to
|
|
a hospital, and anyway, I wasn't going the next day."
|
|
Miss Normand was also very hazy about the gun. She had owned a gun,
|
|
she said, but she didn't remember what it looked like, and she hadn't seen
|
|
it for months and months. The gun which was produced in court looked much
|
|
too clean and new to be hers, she said.
|
|
"Did you tell Greer to shoot Dines?" the defense counsel asked.
|
|
"What would I tell him a thing like that for?" countered Mabel.
|
|
The defense questioned both Miss Normand and Edna Purviance about the
|
|
amount of clothing that Dines had on. Both were rather vague about it, but
|
|
they decided that all that was missing was a coat, and possibly an outside
|
|
shirt...
|
|
The prosecution is in charge of Chief Trial Deputy Charles Fricke and
|
|
Deputy District Attorney Hammer, S. S. Hahn, Clarence Conlin and P. R. Simon
|
|
represent Greer; Milton Cohen is Mabel Normand and [Claire] Woolwine watches
|
|
over Miss Purviance's participation.
|
|
|
|
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
|
|
|
|
June 17, 1924
|
|
LOS ANGELES HERALD
|
|
...The reading of the testimony given by Dines at the preliminary
|
|
hearing in the case was scheduled to follow Mrs. Burns' appearance on the
|
|
stand. Dines, who is at the bedside of his father who is ill in Denver,
|
|
displayed a remarkable lapse of memory when he testified. He said he
|
|
couldn't remember that Greer shot him.
|
|
Dines' lapse of memory and the haziness of the testimony of Miss
|
|
Normand and Miss Purviance caused Justice Hanby [the judge at the
|
|
preliminary hearing] to charge openly that there was collusion between the
|
|
attorneys and the witnesses in the case to cause the charge against Greer to
|
|
be dropped. And in this connection a remark made by Miss Normand while she
|
|
was under cross-examination late yesterday was regarded as somewhat
|
|
significant today.
|
|
There were two versions of what Miss Normand said. Defense Attorney
|
|
Hahn was questioning her sharply when she flared up. According to one
|
|
version she said to Hahn:
|
|
"You haven't any right to cross-examine me like that. What do you want
|
|
to be so mean to me for? That isn't the way you were supposed to act."
|
|
The other version was that she snapped out
|
|
"You aren't supposed to be so hard. The idea of cross-examining me
|
|
like that! That wasn't the understanding I had with you."
|
|
But regardless of the words she used the gist of her remark was the
|
|
same in both versions. However, if Hahn had any "understanding" to be easy
|
|
in his cross-examination of Miss Normand he certainly forgot it when he
|
|
questioned her on her story of the shooting.
|
|
There was considerable speculation today as to what caused Miss Normand
|
|
to make the remark...
|
|
The cross-examination of Miss Normand was marked by lively spats
|
|
between her and Attorney Hahn and by her gesturing and the way she answered
|
|
questions. The crowd got a tremendous "kick" out of it.
|
|
Once when she was cautioned to refer to Greer as Greer and not as
|
|
"Kelly," the name he gave when she employed him, she turned to Judge Crail
|
|
and expostulated:
|
|
"I beg your pardon, you honor. You see, I don't know the law. I mean,
|
|
I don't know the defendant. How's that?"
|
|
Again, when she was asked how big a man Dines was, she turned to Judge
|
|
Crail with a sweet smile and said:
|
|
"Your honor, I think Mr. Dines was just like you, your honor. May I
|
|
say that?"
|
|
"We'd better not make the matter too personal," said the judge,
|
|
sternly.
|
|
Hahn asked her if she had told Greer to shoot Dines.
|
|
"For heaven's sake--no!" she retorted. "Why should I tell anybody to
|
|
plug anybody, anyhow?"
|
|
She said Dines had not been "exactly drunk," but that he had "had
|
|
plenty." And when she was asked to account for Greer's actions when Dines
|
|
was shot, she said, "He must have been crazy or wild--I do not know."
|
|
Substantially, her testimony as the same as she gave at the preliminary
|
|
hearing. She said her back was toward Greer and Dines when she heard three
|
|
sounds "like firecrackers popping" and when she turned around Dines was
|
|
pressing his hands to a spot of blood on his chest and gasping, "I've been
|
|
plugged." She said she had not seen Greer shot. She admitted there had
|
|
been drinking in the apartment and measured off two inches on the whisky
|
|
bottle taken from the apartment as the amount left in the bottle when she
|
|
arrived.
|
|
"Just enough for three drinks," she said...
|
|
|
|
[Note: It is possible that Mabel Normand's clash with the defense attorney
|
|
came after he had focused on a discrepancy in her testimony. For example,
|
|
at the preliminary hearing she reportedly testified that she did not notice
|
|
a bottle in the room; at the trial she remembered it very clearly and even
|
|
remembered having a drink from it.]
|
|
|
|
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
|
|
|
|
June 17, 1924
|
|
Edith Bristol
|
|
LOS ANGELES HERALD
|
|
|
|
Star's Testimony is Made Vivid by Gestures
|
|
|
|
In the testimony of Mabel Normand, film star witness in the trial of
|
|
Horace Greer for the shooting of Courtland Dines on New Year's day, there
|
|
are two features which will never go into the stenographic report.
|
|
One of them is Miss Normand's broad--oh, very broad--"a." It is "a" as
|
|
in "bawth," "cawn't," "rawther" and "pawdon." A real Cavendish Square
|
|
breadth of accent, so like dear old Lonnon!
|
|
The other item of testimony doomed to escape the official record is
|
|
Miss Normand's conversational hands--unless they bring a cinema into court
|
|
to reproduce her answers.
|
|
Taalk? Miss Normand's hands fairly chatter. They are voluble,
|
|
loquacious. And when she gets excited they stutter.
|
|
A running obligato of gesture accompanies her words. It began when, on
|
|
being sworn, the comedienne inquired which hand to raise in taking the oath.
|
|
After once getting her hands into gear, she threw them into high speed and
|
|
illustrated every answer with a gesture.
|
|
Attorney Hahn, cross-examining, displays a curiosity as to the bottle
|
|
on the table of Dines' apartment. Miss Normand impersonates the pouring of
|
|
the drink. She illustrates the exact size of right and proper drink, the
|
|
amount remaining is measured by her hands, and the fluttering fingers go
|
|
through the "business" of the convivial scene. Her hands point out that
|
|
delicate distinction between a man who is drunk and a man who is only
|
|
"drinking."
|
|
Her hands show the jury--which looks like a comfortable, motherly
|
|
meeting of the Ladies' Aid into which two men have strayed inadvertently--
|
|
just how the door opened into the bedroom, just how she powdered her nose,
|
|
just the way she gathered up the offending cigarette butts which marred the
|
|
order of Dines' apartment on her arrival.
|
|
Just the manner in which Dines announced that he had been "plugged" and
|
|
just the way a "plugged" man looks when he is, as Miss Normand expresses it,
|
|
"all full of blood," is acted out by the talkative hands.
|
|
An airy wave and an outspread gesture depict the sound of the "three
|
|
firecrackers going off," and another farflung gesticulation shows just how
|
|
it feels to be deprived of one's own car and forced to ride to the police
|
|
station with the officers.
|
|
Didn't someone write a play to Mary's ankle?
|
|
If anything so mute as an ankle is entitled to be made the theme of a
|
|
drama, then some aspiring playwright should compose a scenario of the Dines
|
|
New Year's celebration and title it "Mabel's Fingers."
|
|
|
|
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
|
|
|
|
June 19, 1924
|
|
LOS ANGELES HERALD
|
|
Greer Case is Ready for Jurors
|
|
|
|
The case for Horace Greer, former chauffeur for Mabel Normand, tried
|
|
for shooting Courtland Dines during a party Dines staged with Miss Normand
|
|
and Edna Purviance New Year's day, was ready for the jury today...
|
|
Greer, who refused to testify in his own defense because, he said, he
|
|
would "rather go to the penitentiary than say anything that would hurt Miss
|
|
Normand" watched the jurors closely as Fricke was completing the arguments.
|
|
His decision to stay off the witness stand, which caused the attorneys
|
|
to throw up their hands in consternation, was made at the last minute, after
|
|
his attorneys had promised he would testify and "tell everything."
|
|
Without having produced one word of testimony, Greer's lawyers were
|
|
compelled to rely on what they said were flaws in the prosecution's case in
|
|
their arguments to the jury. They shouted that Dines' own testimony and
|
|
that of the other prosecution witnesses upheld Greer's story he shot in self
|
|
defense.
|
|
Defense Attorney Conlin pictured the New Year's day party at Dines'
|
|
apartment as a Roman saturnalia where Dines, Miss Normand and Miss Purviance
|
|
were defying the constitution by drinking. He characterized Greer as the
|
|
"only clean soul" of the four, who was intent upon rescuing his employer
|
|
from what was going on...
|
|
Conlin said Greer shot Dines because Dines reached for a bottle to
|
|
strike him with when he insisted that Miss Normand return home with him.
|
|
"Which was the more honorable?" he asked. "Was it Mabel, the cigarette
|
|
girl, who wants us to believe she was there as an uplifter? Was it Dines,
|
|
the Roman gladiator, posing in his undershirt and reaching for the whisky
|
|
bottle? Or was it this boy Greer, the only sober one there, who wanted to
|
|
take his employer from such a scene?"
|
|
S. S. Hahn, chief defense counsel, devoted his argument to a flaw-
|
|
picking attack on Dines' "I-don't-remember" story.
|
|
He ridiculed the testimony given by Miss Normand and Miss Purviance.
|
|
"They don't want the truth of this affair to become known," he said.
|
|
"They are afraid it will besmirch the motion picture profession. But the
|
|
stars have got their punishment and the only lesson that a jury can teach
|
|
such dark stars is by acquitting this boy."...
|
|
|
|
[Greer was indeed acquitted.]
|
|
|
|
*****************************************************************************
|
|
Thanks to John Gierland for supplying some of the above clippings.
|
|
|
|
*****************************************************************************
|
|
*****************************************************************************
|
|
For more information about Taylor, see
|
|
WILLIAM DESMOND TAYLOR: A DOSSIER (Scarecrow Press, 1991)
|
|
Back issues of Taylorology are available via Gopher at
|
|
gopher.etext.org
|
|
in the directory Zines/Taylorology
|
|
or on the Web at
|
|
http://www.angelfire.com/free/Taylor.html
|
|
*****************************************************************************
|