266 lines
13 KiB
Plaintext
266 lines
13 KiB
Plaintext
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| File Name : ANTIFLAM.ASC | Online Date : 05/09/95 |
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| Contributed by : InterNet | Dir Category : ENERGY |
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| From : KeelyNet BBS | DataLine : (214) 324-3501 |
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| A FREE Alternative Sciences BBS sponsored by Vanguard Sciences |
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| KeelyNet * PO BOX 870716 * Mesquite, Texas * USA * 75187 |
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| Voice/FAX : (214) 324-8741 InterNet - keelynet@ix.netcom.com |
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| WWW sites - http://www.eskimo.com/~billb & http://www.protree.com |
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The following are some interesting comments regarding open-mindedness towards
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alternative approaches, concepts and experiments.
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Newsgroups: sci.energy,alt.energy.renewable,alt.paranet.science,alt.sci.
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physics.new-theories
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Path: news.cc.uch.gr!news.forth.gr!ecrc!Munich.Germany.EU.net!Germany.EU.net!
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howland .reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!openwx!eskimo!billb
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From: billb@eskimo.com (William Beaty)
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Subject: Re: TMI device, free energy device ?
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X-Nntp-Posting-Host: eskimo.com
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Message-ID: <D52uq5.3Cu@eskimo.com>
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Sender: usenet@eskimo.com (News User Id)
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Organization: Eskimo North (206) For-Ever
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X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
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References: <793832711snz@codesmth.demon.co.uk> <3isttf$2uf@news.uncc.edu>
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<3ittji$hnu@sundog.tiac.net> <3jg2q0$l2m@homesick.cs.unlv.edu>
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<3jhkps$j3h@sundog.tiac.net>
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Date: Tue, 7 Mar 1995 15:51:40 GMT
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Lines: 62
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Xref: news.cc.uch.gr sci.energy:23613 alt.paranet.science:415
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alt.sci.physics.new-theories:3201
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To: conover@max.tiac.net (Harry H Conover)
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Subject: Re: TMI device, free energy device ?
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Newsgroups: sci.energy,alt.energy.renewable,alt.paranet.science,alt.sci.
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physics.new-theories
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Organization: Eskimo North (206) For-Ever
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In article <3jhkps$j3h@sundog.tiac.net> you wrote:
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<delete>
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: There's a big difference between being open minded and empty headed.
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: Unfortunately, those that perpetuate the myth of perpetual motion, free
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: energy, and other something from nothing devices fall into the later
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: category.
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I think you are making a basic error here. There are two phenomena you are
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lumping together: perpetual motion and free energy. Perpetual motion is in
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the same class as Maxwell's Demon devices: foolish to pursue.
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But there's evidence here and there for devices which RECEIVE energy from an
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unknown source. The ones I'm thinking of are not scams or hoaxes (where the
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inventors had their lives wrecked by announcing their discoveries.)
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It is entirely within the bounds of conventional physics that there could be
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undiscovered mechanisms for converting matter to energy, for changing neutrino
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flux into electric power, for building "tame spacewarps" to extract power,
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etc.
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A working "perpetual motion" machine is not very likely, but it is not
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impossible. And if anyone ever comes up with one, it will quickly be renamed
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"energy receiver" or some such. After all, everyone knows that "perpetual
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motion" machines are impossible.
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: Rejection of man's accumulated body of scientific knowledge isn't
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: being 'open minded' -- It's being ignorant, stupid, or both.
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This sounds like a cliche', but its true: those that pursued powered flight,
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spacecraft, etc., were accused of the same thing. A few decades ago, planes
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and spacecraft were foolish dreams, and any who worked towards them were
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ridiculed. Only in hindsight are the true fools obvious.
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: As I've said before, free energy scemes, perpetual motion, et al are fun to
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: contemplate as logical puzzles or, at times, exercises in deception,
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: however, anyone that beleves such devices are real, risks labeling
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: themselves a fool.
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....No, anyone who believes such devices COULD be real, risks BEING labeled a
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fool by people who are ready to heap ridicule on others whose beliefs about
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what might be possible differ from their own.
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I think of it this way: in five hundred years, will mankind be using power
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generators which extract energy directly from the vacuum? If so, will such
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generators be based on discoveries that the researchers of today could have
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made, had they just known where to look? Maybe.
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And it's possible that someone today is looking right at the effects that lead
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to these generators, yet discounts them as being measurement mistakes, since
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energy cannot just come from nowhere!
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--
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.....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,.............................
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William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623
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EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/
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Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Path: news.cc.uch.gr!news.forth.gr!ecrc!Munich.Germany.EU.net!Germany.EU.net!
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EU.net!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!jobone!
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fiesta.srl.ford.com!pt9201.ped.pto.ford.com!pt9217.ped.pto.ford.com!
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millerb
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From: millerb@pt9217.ped.pto.ford.com (Bryan Miller)
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Newsgroups: sci.energy,alt.energy.renewable,alt.paranet.science,alt.sci.
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physics.new-theories
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Subject: Re: TMI device, free energy device ?
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Date: 7 Mar 1995 21:03:27 GMT
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Organization: Ford Motor Co., Powertrain Electronics
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Lines: 31
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Message-ID: <3jihmv$5n0@pt9201.ped.pto.ford.com>
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References: <793832711snz@codesmth.demon.co.uk> <3isttf$2uf@news.uncc.edu>
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<3ittji$hnu@sundog.tiac.net> <3jg2q0$l2m@homesick.cs.unlv.edu>
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<3jhkps$j3h@sundog.tiac.net>
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NNTP-Posting-Host: pt9217.ped.pto.ford.com
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X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
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Xref: news.cc.uch.gr sci.energy:23626 alt.paranet.science:416
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alt.sci.physics.new-theories:3215
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Harry H Conover (conover@max.tiac.net) appears to have written:
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[snip snip]
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>Rejection of man's accumulated body of scientific knowledge isn't
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>being 'open minded' -- It's being ignorant, stupid, or both. As I've
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>said before, free energy scemes, perpetual motion, et al are fun to
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>contemplate as logical puzzles or, at times, exercises in deception,
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>however, anyone that beleves such devices are real risks labeling
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>themselves a fool. If it isn't immediately clear to you why this is so,
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>you need to do more homework.
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> Harry C.
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Where does one draw the line on the definition of free energy? How do we
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label energy created by wind or water motion? How does this vary from the
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earth's magnetic fields (if I have been following this thread correctly...)?
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I have no connection with these fellows nor their research. However, making
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blanket statements such as there is no free energy is a bit bold. Yes, yes I
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know. The laws of physics. If you read Penrose or Hawking you'll discover
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that it ain't all been figured out yet...
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cheers,
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Bryan
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"Imagination is more important than knowledge." - Albert Einstein
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Path: news.cc.uch.gr!news.forth.gr!ecrc!Munich.Germany.EU.net!Germany.EU.net!
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howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!news.dsndata.com!backbone!
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crcnis3.unl.edu! cse.unl.edu!romig
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From: romig@cse.unl.edu (Phil Romig)
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Newsgroups: alt.philosophy.objectivism,alt.sci.physics.new-theories,sci.astro,
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sci.physics,sci.research
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Subject: Re: The Farce of Physics
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Date: 15 Mar 95 22:15:30 GMT
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Organization: University of Nebraska--Lincoln
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Lines: 50
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Message-ID: <romig.795305730@cse.unl.edu>
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References: <3jgamd$op0@acasun.eckerd.edu> <3jguql$qdn@ixnews2.ix.netcom.com>
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<3jq4tt$ce6@stc06.CTD.ORNL.GOV> <D5AI1A.56I@eskimo.com>
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NNTP-Posting-Host: cse.unl.edu
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Xref: news.cc.uch.gr alt.philosophy.objectivism:4726 alt.sci.physics.new-
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theories:3272 sci.astro:58785 sci.physics:76471 sci.research:4904
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fernando@eskimo.com (Fernando Loygorri) writes:
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>I don't have the technical expertise to tell whether people like Lerner, Arp
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>or Hoyle are right or wrong, but their books certainly point out clearly
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>that the scientific research may be tainted by money, power and inflated
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>egos.
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I have been reading a collection of essays by Stephen Hawking and I think he
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makes a good point on this topic. He says that few who understand the process
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would deny what you said, scientific research is fraught with problems,
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particularly egos. That's how it works.
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The essay says that research in physics is a continuing cycle. A new theory
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is accepted, which explains the world as we can see it. Over the years a
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great deal of time and even emotion is invested in that theory. Then, as our
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measurements of the world get better, cracks in the theory begin to show up.
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Because we have so much invested we try to make the old theory fit, until it
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becomes an ugly mass with stuff sticking out all over. Then along comes some
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revolutionary new theory which wipes out all (or most) of the old, and again
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provides us with a nice, clean way of looking at the world. Then of course it
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all starts over again.
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It's happened many times. I remember seeing a picture of mechanical system
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that described the motion of the planets in the sky, assuming that they all
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orbited the earth (let me tell you it was complex. They had things doing
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figure eights that would make an ice-skater sick).
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Then someone says "hey, let's try the SUN at the middle" and (100 years and
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several excommunications later) we have a nice, simple system again. It
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happened with Maxwell, it happened with relativity and it happened with
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quantum mechanics.
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I think the point is not that this way of doing things if flawed, but rather
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that we need to be aware that we do have illogical attachments to the theories
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we grew up with, so that when a new "revolutionary" one comes by we don't
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totally reject it. What we want to avoid is the 100 years and several
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excommunications. On the other hand our attachment to old theories does
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provide a safety check, preventing us from accepting every new fangled thing
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that comes down the pipe.
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Hope this contributes something.
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******************************************************************************
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Phil Romig
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romig@cse.unl.edu
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"The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing"
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- Edmund Burk
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******************************************************************************
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Vanguard Note
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For those who continue to dispute not only the possibility of free energy
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and perpetual motion, but the simple INDISPUTABLE fact of it, simply look
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around you.
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Current understanding of mass is that an electron continually rotates
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around the nucleus of an atom by virtue of what power? Not only that, but
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a similar mysterious force moves the planets in their orbits.
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Is this not 'perpetual motion'? Why can we not learn to tap into this
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same force and use it to drive the wheelworks of our machines, to produce
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useable FREE (beyond the cost of the conversion devices) power?
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There are numerous approaches; high voltage, back-emf, thermodynamic,
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magnetic, mechanical, leverage, atmospheric electricity accumulations,
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low-level mass conversion, etc..
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We (all who participate in the info exchange in alternative science
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researches) will eventually come up with something that will be shared
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with the world through computer networks and snailmail networks.
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At that time, we shall see the true colors of all these naysayers who have
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some malicious ax to grind as they suddenly try to claim they always knew
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it was just a matter of time. So please, break your neck, get your
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negative comments and other flames documented in email and other file
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forms.
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When our people are flying without planes, powered by boxes that pull
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energy directly from space, living hundreds of years without disease or
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aging symptoms, colonizing other planets and visiting other star systems,
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we who could see beyond 'laws' will look down and pity all those who chose
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to never get off their knees in their subservience to science dogma.
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Yes, there are lab queens, i.e. devices that have anomalous or peculiar
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effects, sometimes unstable and which only work in a perfect environment
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(IF THAT!), but we cannot ignore it or discount it because analysis of
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such phenomena will gain us an understanding of how we can create, control
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and use it in a practical sense.
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It's all just a giant puzzle, with pieces coming from all over to help us
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put it together. So, don't let some of these flamers get you down, think
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about things FOR YOURSELF, talk to others who might offer clues or places
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to get further informaion, experiment however you can and document it to
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share with others. If we all share with each other, it will truly be just
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a matter of time before we have a working device to blaze the trail to all
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the subsequent improvements.
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Jerry/Sysop/KeelyNet
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