242 lines
11 KiB
Plaintext
242 lines
11 KiB
Plaintext
Original Message Date: 12 Mar 92 08:33:00
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From: Jack Decker on 1:154/8
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To: Tom Jennings on 1:125/111
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Subj: CC: of Policy Complaint against Steve Winter - NOT FOR<4F>
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PUBLICATION!
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* Message Forwarded by Ned 2.00 *
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Original From: Jack Decker on 154/8
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To: Tom Faulkner on 3641/0
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Subject: Policy Complaint against Steve Winter
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cc: Tom Jennings, 1:125/111 (FYI only, NOT for publication!)
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Message #50, Area "NetMail"
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From: Steve Winter
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To: Jack Decker 06 Mar 92 14:32:47
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Subject: False christian post
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MSGID: 1:3641/238 210e7bbc
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PID: FM+ 2.1
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I believe that you are the false christian who posted the lies in the <20>
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recent FidoNews. I can certainly understand why false christian filth<74>
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are offended by the truth that exposes them as deceiving scum. Your<75>
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cult is a putrid stench in the nostrils of God.
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-=( A BASIC DEFECTIVE PREMISE OF THE FALSE CHRISTIAN CULTS )=-
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The "believe only" cults are basing their salvation upon the defective <20>
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premise that the early Christians to whom the original epistles were
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addressed, "believed" the apostles, but hadn't obey them. Then they
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are also building upon their defective premise that the apostles
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accepted as "brethern" folks who refused to obey them.
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Every time that a deceiving cultist leads a victim to the book of
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Galatians, or Romans, or Ephesians to "explain" to them why obediance<63>
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to Acts 2:38 isn't necessary for salvation; they deceptively ignore<72>
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the fact that the addressees of the epistles of the Bible were those<73>
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who
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had OBEYED the Acts 2:38 plan of salvation.
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Unless a person BECOMES a Christian, they are NOT even the individuals <20>
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that epistles containing the benevolent promises are addressed to It's<>
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as if they are holding a promisary note that is addressed to someone
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else. They rejoice about its promised value (which is real), but<75>
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don't realize that it's not addressed to them. The benevolent<6E>
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promises of
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God are only for those who OBEY Him.
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A brief glance at just a couple of scriptures serves to expose the
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majority of these cultists.
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True preachers teach why the Bible needs to be obeyed, while the
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Satanic cultists "proclaim" their "salvation without obediance".
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The book of Romans shows that a "non-believer" was recognized by
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"lack of obediance" to the original Apostolic message (Acts 2:38)
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Romans 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias<61>
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saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
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Deceivers often take verses from Ephsians (a letter to the CHURCH at
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Ephesus), and ignore the fact that the Ephesian Church was FOUNDED<45>
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upon the Acts 2:38 plan of salvation. The membership of the Ephesian<61>
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Church had ALLREADY OBEYED Acts 2:38.
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Notice carefully the founding of the Ephesian church and pay careful
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attention to Paul adhering faithfully to the Acts 2:38 plan even<65>
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though John the Baptist had allready baptised those individuals.
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Acts 19:1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth,<2C>
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Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and<6E>
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finding
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certain disciples,
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Acts 19:2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye <20>
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believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether <20>
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there be any Holy Ghost.
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Here also is clear proof in verse 2 that a person doesn't receive the<68>
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Holy Ghost just because they "believe". The "believe only" cultists
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will often teach that lie.
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Acts 19:3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And<6E>
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they said, Unto John's baptism.
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When Paul saw that they had not received the Spirit (of Christ), he
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questioned the validity of their baptism.
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Acts 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of
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repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him
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which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
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Believers were/are ALWAYS obeyers.
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Acts 19:5 When they heard [this], they were baptized in the name of
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the Lord Jesus.
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Folks who had been baptised by John the Baptist himself had
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to be RE-Baptised in Jesus name in order to become Christians.
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Acts 19:6 And when Paul had laid [his] hands upon them, the Holy Ghost <20>
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came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
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After obeying Christian baptism they did receive the same Spirit of<6F>
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Christ that the Apostles had received in Acts 2:4.
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Via MsgTrack+ 1:3641/238@fidonet, Fri Mar 06 1992 at 14:36
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Via GEcho 1:3641/238, Mar 6 1992 at 14:36
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Via MsgTrack+ 1:3641/1@fidonet, Fri Mar 06 1992 at 14:37
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Via FrontDoor 1:3641/1@fidonet, Mar 6 1992 at 14:38
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Via QM 1:151/1003, Fri Mar 06 16:31 (v1.30)
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Via MsgTrack+ 1:13/13@fidonet, Fri Mar 06 1992 at 23:07 UTC
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Via QM 1:13/13, Fri Mar 06 23:07 UTC (v1.25/a01)
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Via MsgTrack+ 1:396/1@fidonet, Fri Mar 06 1992 at 23:24 UTC
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Via Squish 1:396/1.0, Fri Mar 06 1992 at 23:25 UTC
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Via MsgTrack 1:11/2@fidonet, Fri Mar 06 1992 at 18:55
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Via QM 1:11/2, Fri Mar 06 18:56 (v1.30/b21)
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Via MsgTrack+ 1:154/40@fidonet.org, Sat Mar 07 1992 at 03:07 UTC
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Via FrontDoor 1:154/40@fidonet.org, Mar 6 1992 at 21:0
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Message #128, Area "NetMail"
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From: MBounce V1.00
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To: Jack Decker 10 Mar 92 18:14:38
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Subject: Message Returned To Sender.
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MSGID: 1:3641/238.0 29bd4404
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The following message was refused at the above address:
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<EFBFBD>
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------ <20>
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On: 07 Mar 92 10:36:00
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By: Jack Decker, 154/8
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To: Steve Winter, 3641/238
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Re: Re: False christian post
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<EFBFBD>
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------ <20>
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SW> I believe that you are the false christian who posted the lies in
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SW> the recent FidoNews. I can certainly understand why false
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SW> christian filth are offended by the truth that exposes them as
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SW> deceiving scum. Your cult is a putrid stench in the nostrils of
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SW> God.
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Steve, you've lost it totally. I don't know what kind of teaching<6E>
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you've been sitting under, or if you just came up with all of this on<6F>
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your own, but it's going to be death to you. What happened to "judge<67>
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not lest ye be judged" in your theology? What about the greatest<73>
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commandment (love)? What about Roman chapter 14 (please read it)?
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Steve, what do you do with Ephesians 2:8-9? You must really hate<74>
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those two verses, because they destroy the very core of your<75>
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"salvation by works" theology.
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SW> Every time that a deceiving cultist leads a victim to the book of
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SW> Galatians, or Romans, or Ephesians to "explain" to them why<68>
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obediance
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SW> to Acts 2:38 isn't necessary for salvation; they deceptively<6C>
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ignore the
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SW> fact that the addressees of the epistles of the Bible were those<73>
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who
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SW> had OBEYED the Acts 2:38 plan of salvation.
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Steve, have you taken a pair of scissors and cut all of Paul's<>
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writings out of your Bible? You are confusing something that was<61>
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said to a particular group of people at a certain time, as a<>
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universal command for everyone. But even if you believe that this is<69>
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a universal command, why do you place so much emphasis on the baptism<73>
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(which is only an outward sign) and very little on "repentance".<2E>
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However, it appears you are basing an entire theology on a few<65>
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verses. If you are sincerely interested in "rightly dividing the<68>
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word", then perhaps you should take a concordance and look up the<68>
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references to "grace". What is grace? To whom does the grace of God<6F>
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apply?
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You probably get mad when folks say that the gifts of God passed away<61>
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in the first century (I don't believe that either), but in your<75>
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theology you seem to think that God's grace doesn't apply to those<73>
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who profess to be believers. It's as though once you claim to be a<>
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believer, God doesn't give you any more breaks.
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I can guarantee you that without the Grace of God and the salvation <20>
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provided by Jesus' sacrifice on the cross, I will never have eternal<61>
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life, and neither will you. I am totally incapable of living a<>
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perfect life. Neither have you, apparently (you've broken at least<73>
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one direct command of Jesus in your message to me).
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You say that the promises of God are only for those who obey. If you<6F>
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are judged by the same measure with which you judge others, as the<68>
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scriptures state, then if you fail to obey at any point you will have<76>
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lost your
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salvation, because that is how you are judging others. That's pretty <20>
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heavy.
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Steve, I can understand where you are coming from because I have <20>
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perfectionist tendencies, as I imagine you do also. When I look at<61>
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your posts, I see what I might have become if God hadn't led me to<74>
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Romans 14 and a few other scriptures that point out the utter<65>
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futility of basing one's salvation on works. Either Ephesians 2:8-9<>
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is true, or God is a liar, and I choose to believe that God wasn't<>
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lying when he inspired Paul to write those verses.
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I should point out that I believe in the baptism of believers, I<>
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believe in the gift of tongues, I believe that God still heals and<6E>
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performs miracles. But I don't believe that any of these external<61>
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works take precedence over God's soverign grace. I can understand<6E>
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that some believers may read the Bible and come to the conclusion<6F>
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that these things are necessary for THEIR
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salvation, and I don't fault them for that. It's when they start<72>
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saying that EVERY believer must go and do likewise that I have a<>
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problem. God often asks individual believers to do certian things<67>
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that are not required of EVERY believer. God knows that we are all<6C>
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different, and he doesn't give any of us more than we can handle at<61>
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one time. I wish you'd at least have enough respect for other<65>
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believers to allow that they might not have received the same<6D>
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"enlightenment" from God as you have, and not be quite so quick to<74>
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jump into judgement mode.
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If I were you, my greatest fear would be of getting to the gates of<6F>
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heaven and finding someone who is as much a perfectionist as you<6F>
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guarding the entrance. In any case, if by some chance I don't make it<69>
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to heaven (and if Ephesians 2:8-9 is true, then I *will* make it), I<>
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don't think it will be because Steve Winter damned me as "false<73>
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christian filth."
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Jack
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Via MsgTrack+ 1:3641/238@fidonet, Tue Mar 10 1992 at 18:21
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Via GEcho 1:3641/238, Mar 10 1992 at 18:21
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Via MsgTrack+ 1:3641/1@fidonet, Tue Mar 10 1992 at 18:32
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Via FrontDoor 1:3641/1@fidonet, Mar 10 1992 at 21:06
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Via QM 1:151/1003, Wed Mar 11 00:05 (v1.30)
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Via MsgTrack+ 1:13/13@fidonet, Wed Mar 11 1992 at 06:43 UTC
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Via QM 1:13/13, Wed Mar 11 06:43 UTC (v1.25/a01)
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Via MsgTrack+ 1:396/1@fidonet, Wed Mar 11 1992 at 07:07 UTC
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Via Squish 1:396/1.0, Wed Mar 11 1992 at 07:12 UTC
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Via MsgTrack 1:11/2@fidonet, Wed Mar 11 1992 at 09:55
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Via QM 1:11/2, Wed Mar 11 09:56 (v1.30/b21)
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Via MsgTrack+ 1:154/40@fidonet.org, Wed Mar 11 1992 at 17:37 UTC
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Via FrontDoor 1:154/40@fidonet.org, Mar 11 1992 at 14:2
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[End of quoted messages]
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